Latest / Basic Folk / Everyone Belongs at the Olive Klug show, ep. 322

Transcript

Everyone Belongs at the Olive Klug show, ep. 322 · Basic Folk

0:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, and welcome to Basic Folk, where we have honest conversations with folk musicians on the Bluegrass situation.
0:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's me, Cindy House.
0:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, thank you for finding us today and checking out the show.
0:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Very pleased to have all of Klug on the program today.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to that momentarily.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But first, have you signed up for Basic Folk's newsletter?
0:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, it's so easy to do if you have not done it yet.
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a link in the show notes that you can
0:39
[SPEAKER_01]: click on and sign up there, or you can go to our website, basicvoke.com.
0:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You can follow us on social media.
0:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We are on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube at basicvoke pod.
0:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if you'd like, you can become a financial contributor.
0:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Give us like five bucks a month and help us produce this darn show.
1:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Link in the show notes, or you can go to basicvoke.com slash donate.
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
1:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, I hope everyone's having a wonderful summer.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: My computer is very hot all the time and the fan is constantly going off.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also feel like since I'm back on the clock for a little while after being on maternity leave for a month, my eyes have our totally not used to computer screens anymore.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And does that happen to anyone else where you just like can't look at a computer screen after you haven't looked at one for like a month?
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'll keep you posted because I know you'll probably want to know about that.
1:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's get to the show.
1:43
[SPEAKER_01]: All of Klug and myself recorded this interview in my closet while they were in Portland, Maine to play a show.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They stayed along with their band, Cory Haley and Peyton and it was a real pleasure to be around them for a few days.
1:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You can tell that all of is at their best around their band and it is a true collaboration on stage.
2:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Shout out to the whole crew for leaving such a remarkable impression on me and my wife, and for assembling some baby furniture while they were staying at our house.
2:14
[SPEAKER_01]: In our conversation for basic folk, all of takes us on a journey through their musical upbringing, exploring their childhood influences, including their father's eclectic taste in sixties and seventies rock and folk.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: All of discusses their love for Joni Mitchell and Taylor Swift, which inspired them to learn guitar and develop their own tastes.
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: They provide insights into their early internet presence on platforms like YouTube and Tumblr, remember Tumblr?
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: and how these shape their creative expression and online identity.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: All of also touches on their experience of transitioning to a music career going viral on TikTok and the emotional and practical challenges that come with it.
2:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Additionally, they delve into how their psychology background and neurodivergence inform their songwriting, live performances, and day to day life.
3:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Our conversation wraps up with thoughts on the productive chaos of touring
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: the importance of community and the folk worlds and their aspirations for long-term sustainable growth in the music industry.
3:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us all take note.
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone belongs at the Olive Cloak Show.
3:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They leave their glow wherever their travels take them.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll listen to a song from Olive's new album.
3:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what to make of me and then we'll get to our conversation with Olive Cloak on basic folk.
3:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't stop thinking of you You might know it all more than me, but it starts to take and ends me, but you don't know what to make me I know that you don't know what to make me But thought I wasn't in this kind of mind
4:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I make my way, Georgia.
4:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll leave the town open for you.
4:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if you're with you, you were the flame.
4:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if you're the two in the shape of my name.
4:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You might know that I'm a bit obsessed.
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You dirty my jacket away, the two dress.
4:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted his problem, and your life made me share it with you.
4:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Does I make a way to do the opposite?
4:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I think of the way that you call yourself pretty and wonder what kind of way you might use for me.
5:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Just for context, we're in the closet.
5:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: We're in Cindy's closet.
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how do you like it in here?
5:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very cozy.
5:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I like a small space.
5:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes me feel safe and cozy.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it really does.
5:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you for talking to me.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: All of them really looking forward to this.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Me too.
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.
5:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So you grew up in Portland, Oregon.
5:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was wondering if you could set the scene for like what music looked like for you in the early years, like
5:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: What was being listened to at home was anyone playing or singing music?
5:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: How much live music did you encounter growing up?
5:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'll take you from my childhood up through like high school, because I feel like there's a lot of important stuff in there.
5:53
[SPEAKER_02]: My dad is a big classic rock fan, but also dabbles in the folk world.
6:00
[SPEAKER_02]: But like very much, sixties and seventies was super into Led Zeppelin, showed me the Beatles, showed me
6:08
[SPEAKER_02]: David Bowie, T-Rex.
6:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to think of other people who's new.
6:11
[SPEAKER_02]: He was really depressed also.
6:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
6:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Cool dad.
6:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Very cool dad.
6:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Neil Young.
6:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And then like he showed me like, cause we still is Nash and young and Joni Mitchell.
6:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember really
6:24
[SPEAKER_02]: being like stuck on Johnny Mitchell even as young as being like four years old.
6:28
[SPEAKER_02]: My family lived in California and I remember listening to the song California in the car and I remember asking my parents, I was like, are we going to see Johnny Mitchell when we're here?
6:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I was like, I like loved the song California so much.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I just remember she really stuck out to me when I was a kid.
6:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh my god, like, this is so cool.
6:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And it really resonated with me as like young as four years old.
6:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was really fun and cool.
6:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And my dad used to play this game with me in the car where he would like give me a dollar to guess the artist or guess.
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so cool.
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like he like gave me a pretty solid sixties and seventies.
7:07
[SPEAKER_02]: music education like throughout many genres like he was definitely like into classic rock but like I would say just like throughout any genres of sixties and seventies music he was really intentional about like getting me to know it was up so I know what's up yeah and then once I kind of got to
7:30
[SPEAKER_02]: middle school high school I started developing my own tastes and first was of course Taylor Swift when I was in middle school she was putting out her first couple of albums so that was like the late two thousand's early twenty-tens and I was just like totally obsessed and um
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say that Johnny Mitchell and Taylor Swift together, I feel like these are such basic answers.
7:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But they kind of like listening to them made me feel like, oh, like I should learn to play guitar because I had been singing from a young age and like been doing musical theater when I was
8:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I kid from a young age, but then I went to summer camp and my camp counselor played guitar and I was like, oh, I want to play guitar.
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So I started learning to play guitar in middle school.
8:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I think I learned how to play love story by Taylor Swift was like my first guitar song.
8:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And then also I'm yours by Jason Razz.
8:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like that era of like late two thousand acoustic music.
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And then after that, I
8:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Got to high school and I was like, okay, I have to be cool now.
8:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't just be listening to Taylor Swift out on the open.
8:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to get cool.
8:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is when the like, twenty tens, Portland, India, hipster, Tweet, indie folk, indie rock, world came into my radar.
8:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I was really one of the first concerts I went to in high school was Fleetboxes.
8:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And that just totally changed my life.
8:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I had never been to a folk concert before.
9:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, I just, I remember like hearing someone play a mandolin and I was like, what are they playing?
9:07
[SPEAKER_02]: That's so cool.
9:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, ten of them on stage.
9:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like outside, two thousand, eleven Portland, like Edge Field, which is like this big field right outside of Portland.
9:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like a beautiful summer day.
9:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like never been to a concert without my parents before.
9:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like,
9:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like a truly life-changing scene, Fleet Foxes, in like, twenty-eleven.
9:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, and then I got really into the shins and got pretty into this band called Dr. Dog.
9:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to think of other people as into a high school, the Virginia Spector was huge for me in high school, bright eyes.
9:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I also discovered Kimia Dawson was in high school.
9:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, all this kind of like indie tweed Fortlandia world.
9:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like the heyday for that.
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was very into it.
9:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Being in Portland, Oregon where you were aware of like what was going out like K records in Olivia Washington.
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I was not.
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So in high school, I grew up in the suburbs.
10:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So not in Portland, but like, slightly outside of Portland.
10:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wasn't actually that aware of the actual music scene in Portland.
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I just went to the crystal bar room like every other weekend to see culture, which was fun.
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: What makes me really happy in listening to this answer?
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, you are really good at answering a question like that.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, so clearly and thoroughly, I'm very impressed at your question answerability.
10:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But what makes me really pleased is to hear that you are of an age where you are not listening to music and developing your tastes during the boy band.
10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: era and the like Britney Spears and the Christina Aguilar.
10:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But don't get it twisted.
10:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I am a pop girlie.
10:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I love pop music.
10:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So if there is any...
10:59
[SPEAKER_02]: We will not be talking shit on pop music.
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we're not talking shit on pop music, but it actually makes me very happy that like Taylor Swift and Johnny Mitchell are the people because don't give me started on the telecommunications act of nineteen ninety six and how that just like homogenized radio and like all of our tastes and everything.
11:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like I talk about it occasionally pretty frequently on the podcast where it was like this legislation that was passed in nineteen ninety six that allowed media organizations to own monopolies in markets across the US so like your clear channels came in and bought all the radio stations and then that's why radio it's like so bland
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, now.
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just like, um, like if you think about the radio at the beginning of the nineties and the end of the nineties, it's like wildly different, like what was on top forty radio, like the beginning of the nineties.
11:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like prints into go girls.
11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Whitney Houston Pearl Jam at the end of the nineties.
12:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, boy bands.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You've seen a regular Britney Spears.
12:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that is actually really interesting.
12:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to have a little bit of all of it, you know, totally.
12:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: A big part of your story is the internet being online and being on TikTok and having a really large following on TikTok and Instagram.
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So you were born in nineteen ninety seven and we were talking about this earlier, how like the internet was around like for beginning of your life, but it was still like a little baby.
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like not what the monster it is today.
12:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So like what has your online life look like?
12:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I think I have, I was an only child and both my parents worked.
12:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, the internet has been a friend of mine from a very young age, honestly.
12:53
[SPEAKER_02]: When I was like, really young, like nine or ten, I started getting into YouTube.
12:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, like, I don't know when YouTube was started, but like, maybe two thousand.
13:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember, but yeah, two thousand five, two thousand five.
13:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was celebrated in the ten year anniversary, you know, twenty years.
13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We got a year.
13:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it twenty fifteen?
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: No, twenty year anniversary of YouTube.
13:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy.
13:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
13:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I started getting into it in those early years, like two thousand seven,
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I loved like random core.
13:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like so into like the random humor because I was like a kid.
13:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And I loved like shoes, you know, that video.
13:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, oh my gosh, shoes.
13:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And like Fred and I don't know, I just I loved random core internet.
13:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like so into it.
13:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And then me and my best friend, I'm Sarah, we started this YouTube channel called Penguins are eating my bra.
13:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And
13:50
[SPEAKER_02]: We were children, obviously, so it was silly.
13:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But we just made stupid little skit videos.
13:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And we edited them in eye movie.
13:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we would make music videos.
14:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's this music video that I think is still on there that's like, to have ravines what the hell.
14:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And we like made, we dressed up in crazy costumes.
14:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, did, I don't know, we just had fun with it.
14:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So much of my childhood, like, my nostalgia.
14:17
[SPEAKER_02]: is like making silly little videos and posting them online.
14:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So like I was like part of my life from very young age.
14:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and it was like fun.
14:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like engaging our creativity.
14:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I think my parents were worried about it at first, but then we were like, I think they were like, that's like they're like writing skits.
14:33
[SPEAKER_02]: They're writing
14:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
14:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It was very creative.
14:36
[SPEAKER_02]: The more process was very creative.
14:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had spent full days, full weekend, sometimes like making these videos.
14:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were like, ten or eleven years old.
14:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was really fun.
14:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So precious.
14:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
14:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
14:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so cute.
14:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I really had a good time doing that like really positive memories from my childhood.
14:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And then in high school, I started a doing tumblr.
14:55
[SPEAKER_02]: If you were in a tumblr, that was, I think, problematic, but still fun, and it was much more anonymous.
15:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't about, like, TikTok is so much about, like, this is me, this is my face is what I look like, this is what I sound like.
15:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Tumblr was way more about, like,
15:11
[SPEAKER_02]: this is my inner world, or whatever.
15:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So you would just like repose things that you thought looked cool, you would repose songs, you would like repose TV shows that you liked, you could be like a fan them for TV show or artists or something like that.
15:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, it was like a fun way to just develop your individuality.
15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also think there was like a lot of toxic stuff on there for teenagers, like a lot of stuff around.
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: like self-harm and eating disorder stuff and so I was exposed to a lot of that when I was in high school and that wasn't great but yeah I mean tumblr was a huge part of my life when I was at age that's part of how I discovered that whole world of like like indie rock and indie folk when I was in high school so yeah still a big part of my life
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: you're a very shy and awkward little kid and that is like very funny to think about because you were also really into musical theater.
16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can either think, you know, I was a shy and awkward little kid.
16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I read it somewhere on, uh, believe it or not on the internet.
16:28
[SPEAKER_02]: My digital footprint is
16:30
[SPEAKER_02]: huge.
16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been making videos and posting them online.
16:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I will say, I didn't get that deep.
16:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't find your tumbler and I didn't find your eleven year old YouTube videos, but I did find that you're like super into musical theater, which is pretty cool because you can hear like
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: theatrical element in your music but in like a really kind of creative unusual way like it's not missy gone or anything like that.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So what kind of theater are you drawn to and how have you worked to implement that type of theater into your songs?
17:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
17:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't think I've worked to implement it necessarily.
17:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I
17:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, just did a lot of it when I was kid and in high school.
17:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that part of what drew me away from it is that I didn't get super obsessed with musicals like the rest of the kids in my like musical theater.
17:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, heart.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just talk about that for a second.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I remember when I was in high school, my musical theater friends were so obsessed with that they would like cast the like at lunch, the lunch table.
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: They would like cast the play before like the, you know, who do you think is going to get this part?
17:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Who do you think is gone?
17:39
[SPEAKER_02]: that part yeah that was crazy yeah I mean I feel like I probably participated in that in high school but yeah I mean I just didn't like I liked musicals but I didn't get like like I was of the Hamilton era and like I liked Hamilton I went to see it it was a great show but I wasn't like listening to it every like I've always preferred to listen to
18:01
[SPEAKER_02]: mostly like folk music or like indie music of some kind or pop music and go like just in my own world I've never really been like a I'm gonna listen to musical theater for fun type of person but it was so fun to participate in it and I think probably just like I have by Osmosis absorbed
18:22
[SPEAKER_02]: things from musical theater.
18:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that was part of why I didn't go into it.
18:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I think a lot of people thought that I was going to go to musical theater school.
18:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But I didn't because I was like, I don't think I'm obsessed with this enough.
18:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I was much more obsessed with like songwriters and stuff.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You're singing voice is really cool and it's described as a soprano voice and I find the soprano voice parts to be like so vulnerable and like kind of scary to think about singing.
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you discover and embrace your soprano voice?
18:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, honestly, I think I don't have, this is interesting because I don't think I, I don't identify someone with like a soprano voice.
19:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I just have like a strong head voice.
19:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is also like where my musical theater training comes in.
19:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But in musical theater, it's really encouraged for you to belt really high, like use your chest voice up high.
19:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was never able to do that.
19:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, like, I can belt about as high as like a standard tenor can belt.
19:24
[SPEAKER_02]: which is like a B-flat.
19:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can only belt a B-flat but like in musical theater you're supposed to be able to like belt a D or a C or C or D or an E and I could never do that.
19:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I worked on developing my head voice and my mixed voice because I knew that my voice just never would be able to go up there with my chest voice.
19:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's kind of part of it.
19:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And another part of it is like being so inspired by Journey Mitchell.
19:49
[SPEAKER_02]: She has that beautiful
19:51
[SPEAKER_02]: like head voice, the print of voice that just goes all over the place.
19:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I learned so much about writing songs and about song structure from her that I am it's like seat into my music.
20:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think a combination of like my chest voice is not going up high and being inspired by a journey.
20:11
[SPEAKER_01]: See which is a good this question.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a high, what did you, you didn't call a soprano voice, but yeah, just a head voice.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have a pretty high head voice.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: What comes out of you?
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And you are a gender queer person.
20:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I wrote this question, I had the word soprano in there.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just think about it in that term.
20:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So like soprano historically has been linked to like one gender in particular.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when people think of a male singing in a higher register, they use the word ball seto.
20:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But when it's a woman, it's soprano.
20:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like in thinking about how high you sing and how you are gender queer, it's like reshaping the way that I'm thinking about vocal registers and when it comes to gender.
20:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So how has your voice played into the ecosystem of your gender?
21:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, that's a good question.
21:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I noticed, I've noticed, like, I've not on any hormones or anything.
21:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I've, like, thought about it, but I am worried about what it would do to my voice.
21:12
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just noticed, like, even watching videos of myself from a couple years ago to now, I just, like, naturally speak in a lower register than I used to, which I think is interesting and cool.
21:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also think it's like,
21:24
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of expanded my lower register a little bit which has been really interesting like I don't think I necessarily my speaking voice is very high when I like speak with other people with like similar registers and like oh actually kind of speak lower in my own register but yeah I don't know how it
21:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes all like feel this work when I listen to my own voice.
21:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I will listen to a take of my own music and I'll be like, oh, I sound too much like a girl in this and like, my producer has been like, oh, like, but you sound great, but I'm like, no, but like, it makes me feel
22:01
[SPEAKER_02]: weird sometimes to listen to my own voice and I think that there's like a lot that my most recent producer and I did to kind of work with that and like like mix the latest record to reflect a voice that I feel comfortable with and use takes that represent a voice that I feel comfortable with and I think that like
22:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that I still can I love my like high head voice register.
22:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to lose that.
22:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's like such a special thing.
22:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think also like existing more in a.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Like some of my music existing in a lower register helps with that.
22:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I do sing higher than most female musicians that I also sing lower.
22:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I just have not to tune my own horn, but I sing the very large range, but people tend to focus on the high range.
22:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I can go to, I can get down there too.
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.
23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing answer.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: you're a lyrics person.
23:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, is what I hear.
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You like a good melody, but you're showing up for the lyrics.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you come to discover that about yourself and how does it impact the type of music listener you are and the type of songwriter you are?
23:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it affects everything.
23:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's just like
23:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually right now learning to listen to music.
23:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like challenging myself to get into music that is more get into the vibe.
23:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, getting into the vibes.
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been listening to some shoe gaze recently.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like not what you asked, but I've been listening more recently for the first time to like vibe space music rather than their space music.
23:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's just like impacted who my favorite
23:46
[SPEAKER_02]: musicians are like, Johnny Mitchell is such a lyrics person.
23:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I can be a Dawson is one of my favorite artists and they're such a lyrics person.
23:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like mostly the lyrics and yeah, I just feel like it's it has impacted how I write I write based on my feelings and based on what I want to say not necessarily based on like catching a vibe, which I feel like that's kind of how
24:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Melody based people write it's like they write based on catching a vibe and then the lyrics like kind of come afterwards.
24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And I write based on like a very specific feeling I want to verbalize.
24:22
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I'm learning to combine them.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they like this album really does combine them more than my last one.
24:29
[SPEAKER_02]: My first album I think was very just like lyrics based.
24:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just like this is how I'm feeling.
24:34
[SPEAKER_02]: La la la la.
24:35
[SPEAKER_02]: First chorus verse bridge.
24:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But this next one I heard this lost dog, which is what I just released.
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like
24:42
[SPEAKER_02]: The song fleeting is a really good example.
24:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it is about the lyrics, but I really feel proud of how I captured the vibe that I was trying to put out within the melody and within the production.
24:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel very proud of that.
24:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And same with a train of thought.
24:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like the lyrics don't really make sense, but like the vibe of the song when you put it all together.
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's all point of the song thing.
25:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that I'm like really wanting to explore that part of myself and I want to work on combining that in new ways.
25:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I feel like this little stint into listening to shoogays is really, it's been fun.
25:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I like, yeah, I'm specifically, I'm getting into the Sundays.
25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like it's such a good vibe for summer, but I have no idea what they're saying.
25:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, this matter, I don't know what they're saying.
25:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It just matters that like feels like this light whimsical summer day.
25:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's fun.
25:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Have people have asked you about your psychology degree and how that might inform your writing?
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people have.
25:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to hear more about that.
25:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's just I literally
25:49
[SPEAKER_02]: based a song off of a therapeutic concept on this last album based on opposite action, which is a DBT therapy concept.
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember learning about it and like questioning it in the moment and then trying to implement it into my life and then coming away, questioning again.
26:04
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's basically the concept of like, it's a fancy way of saying, fake it till you make it.
26:07
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're feeling really depressed, you're supposed to just do the opposite of what your first instinct is to do.
26:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So like if you want to lay in bed all day and mow around, you're supposed to like,
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: get up, get dressed, go to the beach, have a good time, do like just doing the opposite of what your first instinct is to do because oftentimes your first instinct is to like practice unhealthy habits.
26:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's literally a direct reflection of that and I feel like self-help most a lot of people have like told me is a lot about
26:39
[SPEAKER_02]: is related to parts work.
26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not even done parts work, but people therapists have come up to me after my shows and have shown this on to my clients.
26:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's really cool.
26:49
[SPEAKER_02]: What is parts work?
26:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Parts work is where you like kind of
26:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Separate.
26:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever seen the movie inside out?
26:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
26:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like that.
26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like you personify like different parts of yourself and like your different feelings and your different like past selves or like the part of you that's like your child self and your adult self.
27:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like just it's like separating yourselves into different mini personified parts.
27:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting to hear that psychology has impacted your music more than musical theater.
27:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think that that it's more conscious with psychology, but it's less conscious with musical theater.
27:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It just kind of like works its way in there.
27:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So during the pandemic, your career plans blew up.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of people did.
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You moved back to home.
27:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You got a coffee shop job.
27:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You started posting music on TikTok.
27:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So up until twenty twenty one, the idea of like music as a career was kind of like off the table.
28:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like fun.
28:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a hobby.
28:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: What was the transition like when you started recognizing that music like could be a career for you?
28:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it was so exciting at first.
28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Really scary, but really, really exciting.
28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, like, my song casting spells.
28:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm as about that.
28:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about like, I can't believe that I, like, I feel like I cast a spell in my life to be able to do this as my career.
28:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel like I made some kind of magic because I never thought this was even an option.
28:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I just like,
28:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt so exciting, but also so overwhelming, because I felt like I was a lot of my peers have been doing it since they were eighteen, like really doing it, really learning about the industry, going to school for like a Berkeley or something, and like they really knew what they were doing.
28:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I felt like I was a little behind.
28:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I had no idea what the music industry was all about at all.
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I had no idea how to make money.
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I had no idea how to produce songs, like production was such a, like,
29:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Foreign concept to me was like I don't know like what I want in this song besides like a tarp my voice and so like adding all of that it was just also new and exciting and then
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like, yeah, I mean, my story goes, I got signed to a record label really shortly after moving to LA to pursue music.
29:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I released a record called Don't You Dare Make Me Jaded a month later, they dropped me from that record label.
29:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had signed on for a three record deal, and they hadn't really even given it time to like, they hadn't even given it time.
29:37
[SPEAKER_02]: They were like one month.
29:38
[SPEAKER_02]: They were like, first of all, they were like send me your new music.
29:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Less than a month after that one had come out.
29:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't really written any new music.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't tend to write new music until my previous album is out.
29:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I didn't have that much new music.
29:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And they gave it less than a month to see how it was doing.
29:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they were like, okay, bye.
29:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And it left me feeling so unstable.
30:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh my god, it kind of like hit me with a realization like
30:06
[SPEAKER_02]: There's never going to be stability in this career.
30:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm never going to be able to like have stable consistent income and even if I do get like really famous and successful stable consistent income is still not given for those people.
30:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just like.
30:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like I've been like dealing with that realization recently.
30:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And you need to open like a bar and grill.
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, somewhere.
30:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I'll open a bar and grill.
30:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
30:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
30:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to do that.
30:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always thought about opening a shop.
30:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Just think about it.
30:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a cafe, like a coffee shop.
30:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been a barista couple times and I love coffee.
30:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And my biggest bone to pick with coffee shops, modern coffee shops is they're either cozy and aesthetically pleasing.
30:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Or they have good coffee.
30:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You can ever have both.
30:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the good places of good coffee are like so uncomfortable.
30:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like so sterile.
30:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Just like all this like really hard wood and like fluorescent lights.
31:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Or it's like really cozy with like thrift store lamps and like big chairs.
31:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is the ninety dollar coffee mug in the back for sale.
31:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but then the coffee is bad.
31:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like can we combine good coffee with a cozy environment?
31:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, please.
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I don't know.
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And then like
31:19
[SPEAKER_02]: cozy environment, high-quality coffee and like acoustic shows.
31:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like I could combine all that and like, spill it when I cafe.
31:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
31:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I would, I would be down to open a cafe.
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I feel like that coffee shop, that coffee shop truth.
31:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like true words have never been spoken on this podcast.
31:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so if anyone wants to invest in my hypothetical cafe.
31:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Clugs coffee.
31:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Clugs coffee.
31:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Feel like there's like, what's the name?
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: When you are pulling a shot, feel like there's like an opportunity to, like, use your last name in the action of pulling a shot.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I'm talking about anymore.
31:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like plug, plug, plug.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That's something like that.
32:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I took some listeners.
32:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I took some allergy medication before I started doing this interview and I really feel like it's kicking in.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I read that you tend to be a competitive person.
32:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know where you're reading all this stuff.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it true?
32:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I don't know where you're reading it.
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I didn't know that people knew all this about it.
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll explain my research techniques to you after we're done here.
32:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But yes, I read that you are a competitive person.
32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So it made me wonder like,
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: in having the experience of going viral a few times on on the internet like how does your competitive nature impact you when you go viral or when you don't go viral.
32:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean that it has been a lot of like this whole thing has just been so much like
32:52
[SPEAKER_02]: emotional work, um, being a musician, being somebody who gets on the internet, being like someone who's public facing.
33:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a ton of emotional work, and it's addictive.
33:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I, like you get addicted to virology, and the thing that's the worst about it is you can't actually
33:14
[SPEAKER_02]: control when you get it or when you don't.
33:17
[SPEAKER_02]: At least, I mean, like, yeah, other things that people are addicted to, it's like, you can just pay for it.
33:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's horrible to say.
33:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, I, yeah, like, virality is so incredibly addictive and the attention is so incredibly addictive.
33:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when you post something and you don't get it, it's so easy to spiral in a self-hatred.
33:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, when I was posting every day on the internet,
33:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I would write a new song, and I'd be like, I'm really proud of this new song, and then I'd post it, and then it wouldn't get the response I wanted, and I'd be like, okay, fuck that song, I'm never gonna release it.
33:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I was so caught up in the attention and the validation and that being the only thing that mattered, and this was kind of like, during my first album cycle, I was, and my label was encouraging of that.
34:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I just feel so lucky to now be with a label who doesn't really care about that as much and to now be with a team that cares more about like the actual music I'm making and my live shows rather than how viral I go on the internet because it's just like you get yourself worth so wrapped up in it in a way that's really unhealthy and I still sometimes feel that I like remember when I posted my album announcement this year I like literally two weeks ago
34:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't get as many likes as I wanted it to get as many likes as I did the last time when I was like that's hit my careers over piece of trash like it's so easy to just like spiral into self hatred based on how many likes you get.
34:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's really unhealthy and really bad for creativity and really bad for.
34:58
[SPEAKER_02]: feelings of self worth.
34:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I've been doing a lot of work to undo that and posting less on the internet, really posting to announce shows posting to announce my album, but like not engaging in that.
35:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Chase of virality recently because it's just, it'll destroy you.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, for real.
35:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:17
[SPEAKER_01]: How did developing and posting during the pandemic when you are performing in front of your phone and in front of your computer?
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: How did that practice help inform your life performances and make you like the live performer you are today?
35:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
35:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I did this thing that I still love, that I feel like is the non-toxic element of TikTok lives, which is just where you set up your little phone and you play songs for people live on the internet.
35:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And I did that so much during the pandemic.
35:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't, like, you couldn't see your friends.
35:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So my friends were like, ten people that would choke to my lives in my phone.
35:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And...
35:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was so like I think that that's informed my life shows in that that was all just about connecting on a human level with people and I feel like I really try to bring that to my life shows like I try to bring up fun performance element because I like the performative aspect of it, but like
36:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I try to keep that like human connection element in there.
36:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm just I want it to feel like I'm just in my living room hanging out with you and I feel like that I'm pretty successful doing that.
36:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, long set up for this question.
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You have created this like incredible online fan base.
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: and you are very known to certain groups of people who might like stream your music come to a show and someone's dark dirty basement and watch you play your new record lost dog you mentioned your new label signature sounds people aren't familiar it's this incredible label that's been around for over twenty five years that's one of my favorite record labels and it always has been
37:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a label that came from a more like traditional folk world and like that definition of tradition is like Folk Alliance Conference, Philly Folk Fest, Folk Radio DJs who like get CDs mailed to them like non-profit listening rooms like people might
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: be wanting to buy CDs from you.
37:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have hundreds of thousands of followers online, but like tomorrow night in Portland, Maine, you're playing like a discovery series concert in a room that like
37:34
[SPEAKER_01]: people might want to buy CDs from you.
37:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They're also like sitting down.
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, how have you found that particular signature sounds kind of world focusing and how is that introduction been for you?
37:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I really, really like it.
37:51
[SPEAKER_02]: There are obviously like
37:54
[SPEAKER_02]: issues with that community, but I feel so much better and more relaxed and more at peace in the like focalized world than I do in like online TikTok world, especially as I get older, you know, like I started on TikTok when I was in my early twenties.
38:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I was with a lot of other like really young people.
38:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But I am getting older like I'm an adult now.
38:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm almost twenty eight.
38:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to see a sustainable long career.
38:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to
38:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Follow the like pop star trajectory where you kind of expire at thirty five.
38:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that there's a lot of like women proving that wrong.
38:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Lady Gaga is like super successful still and she's in her late thirties.
38:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But and like my other people too, but I just feel like I didn't want that.
38:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't want that like get really famous in your twenties and then expire and then you don't know what's up.
38:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like the folk world is so much more focused on
38:53
[SPEAKER_02]: like developing an artist career slowly and sustainably rather than just kind of like burning them out at three.
39:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I'm like at a certain point, I was like, oh my god, this feels like a sane environment.
39:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like a sane environment that's focused on music and togetherness and community and not necessarily on like this kind of like really toxic intense fast pace music industry.
39:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel so lucky to have found it and to be a part of it and like I just stumbled into focal lengths in twenty twenty three and yeah from there I feel like I built this incredible community and I really like I feel like aligned with the values like I think that folk music is something that yeah like it is music of the people it's music of social movements it's music of unions and I feel so aligned with that and it just feels like good in my body and
39:54
[SPEAKER_02]: to be a part of this and rather than being like a part of the kind of like LA based music industry that I started my career in just feels so different and good.
40:12
[SPEAKER_01]: When thinking about folk music and thinking about social change in music, that's something that you really enjoy when people can come together and make a type of change.
40:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So for you, what are the key factors for social change in music?
40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what is the difference between being political and inciting social change?
40:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good question.
40:38
[SPEAKER_02]: the difference between being political and inciting social change.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there is no difference.
40:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think that like being political is just making a political statement, maybe, just being like, this is what I believe.
40:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, if someone got up on stage and said, you know, vote for Bernie Sanders or whatever, that would be a political statement.
41:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that inciting social change is about building community and actually doing something to facilitate that social change and not just saying what's on your mind.
41:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that they can go hand in hand.
41:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that oftentimes, if you say what's on your mind and you like state what you believe and you have people who are inspired by you, that will incite social change.
41:22
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that like
41:26
[SPEAKER_02]: taking the time to educate people, taking the time to fundraise, taking the time to facilitate actual community with the goal of social change is maybe the difference, like actually facilitating action versus just making a statement.
41:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I think I try to insight social change where I can, but I feel like I'm still working at that.
41:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't exactly know
41:52
[SPEAKER_02]: what the best way to change is, but I try to fundraise for local organizations or mutual aid funds that every show that I do.
42:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's been, that's been really cool.
42:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I've actually gotten to learn a lot about important things happening in like every city I go to.
42:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I feel like this is like a lie and I say at every show, but
42:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I'm really inspired by every show I go to and I go to like places I never thought I would be like I played in Davenport, Iowa, played in Birmingham, Alabama, I played in trying to think of like another like place I never thought that I would go.
42:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Just like all over North Carolina all over the East Coast ports with New Hampshire and I never thought I would go to ports with New Hampshire.
42:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's like amazing communities
42:43
[SPEAKER_02]: trying to create social change in every corner of the US.
42:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not just the coasts.
42:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just blue states.
42:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there are people doing the hard important work in states where it is really scary to be a marginalized person.
43:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And there are really cool dedicated people who remain in those states trying to make change.
43:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that sometimes
43:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
43:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I have some friends who have stuck on the coast their whole life and I don't know.
43:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I feel like the resistance to exploring the middle of the country creates that division that we are all tired of having.
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I feel really lucky that I've gotten to make important connections all over the country.
43:33
[SPEAKER_01]: What makes a good adventure?
43:35
[SPEAKER_02]: What makes a good adventure?
43:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, good gas stations, eh?
43:41
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the snack?
43:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Different every time, but I like a good barbecue chip.
43:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Good barbecue chip.
43:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I like a good.
43:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to hide shoes or my favorite candy.
43:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So whenever they have hide shoes, I'm really excited.
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Hide shoes.
43:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
43:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I like, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna lie here.
44:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I like a good meat stick.
44:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
44:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I like a good giant thing of Dr. Pepper.
44:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
44:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Good gas stations, thanks.
44:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, why is that the first thing that comes to mind?
44:14
[SPEAKER_02]: That's hilarious.
44:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really into gas stations because we did this thing.
44:19
[SPEAKER_02]: We kind of fell off towards the end because it got stressful.
44:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But to be able to, every time we stopped at a gas station, we would do gas station, find of the day.
44:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'd like find a weird little thing in every gas station.
44:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I think room, yeah, yeah, I think room, emphasizing everything makes a good adventure.
44:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's always like,
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like the outdoors community talks about this a lot, but I also think it applies to touring type two fun.
44:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you heard of like type them fun and type two fun?
44:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so type one fun is like going down a slip inside or like going on a boat or like
44:51
[SPEAKER_02]: What's another type one?
44:51
[SPEAKER_02]: But like going out dancing and getting drunk, you know, that's type one fun.
44:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you're there.
44:56
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're having fun in the moment.
44:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to work for it.
45:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just obvious.
45:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
45:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But type two fun is like going on a backpacking trip.
45:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Type two fun is learning how to wake board.
45:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Type two fun also outside of the outdoors community is for me going on a tour going on a month long tour.
45:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like you are working for that shit.
45:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You are like,
45:20
[SPEAKER_02]: putting your unloading stuff every single day.
45:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You're seeing towns you never thought you'd see.
45:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes that you didn't have any intention of seeing.
45:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like eating weird food and you're like really tired and you're like sleeping on couches and like it's this it's really fun and beautiful and
45:40
[SPEAKER_02]: romantic when you look at it that way, but it can also be really hard.
45:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like the fun that comes from like knowing you're doing something difficult and knowing you're putting an effort, but the payoff is like incredible.
45:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I grew up going to summer camp.
45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I grew up back packing at summer camp.
45:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I look at touring very similarly to how I looked at back packing.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very type two fun.
46:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, your new album is your second record lost dog.
46:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It addresses aging as a neurodivergent free spirit, which like neurodivergent free spirit are like not words that you would normally think would mix well.
46:18
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you function when you're like on the road or how do you take care of yourself knowing that you're brain?
46:23
[SPEAKER_01]: is maybe one way in your heart.
46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like another way.
46:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't think that they don't go hand it.
46:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that neurodivergent in my experience is having ADHD, not necessarily like I feel like different types.
46:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So some neurodivergence can make people be very rigid.
46:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not rigid.
46:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually very just like all over the place.
46:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like leaning in.
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Like type two, or no, I said type two fun.
46:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Type B personality in those videos are like your type B friend.
46:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That's showing up.
46:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's like I'm learning so much all the talks like and it's like she like it's like girl with crazy hair and she's like getting out of a van and she's like Oh, I brought snacks and it's like a half-eaten gas station like it's just like it's pedals the dog.
47:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's pedals the dog.
47:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like someone who's kind of chaotic but like full of love and I feel like that is me.
47:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I am chaotic but full of love and yeah, so it it
47:16
[SPEAKER_02]: goes hand in hand with kind of the way my brain works like touring is hard and especially when I'm like sick or not having a good time but I need novelty, I need excitement, I need movement, I need all of that stuff for my brain to be happy so the novelty the movement, the excitement, it's all there and it works for me so it does go hand in in pretty well for me amazing to have
47:39
[SPEAKER_02]: have that, but like the ADHD does make it hard to not lose things.
47:44
[SPEAKER_02]: As I was telling you earlier, we have eyes on fingers on the band.
47:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the most important thing that I know where it is, is my family pack, is my phone, my keys, my wallet, and my checks from the shows.
47:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And so every like twenty minutes, my band is so tired of it.
47:59
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, if I can't locate my family pack, I'm like, eyes on Fanny.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And then one person will be building panties here.
48:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was carrying a black panty pack at the beginning of tour.
48:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I lost it too many times.
48:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I had this really brightly colored panty pack that I never used in my everyday life because I'm like, oh, it doesn't like cute.
48:17
[SPEAKER_02]: But I switched to the bright colored panty packs so I could locate it.
48:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think when you have ADHD, you just like,
48:23
[SPEAKER_02]: develop methods that are kind of weird and unraditional of like how to function and I feel like I've done a good job.
48:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the the brightly colored panty pack and they're like constant tracking of it has been useful because if I didn't do that, that thing would be long gone.
48:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
48:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:40
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's do a lightning round.
48:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's all right.
48:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like olive to ramble.
48:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So no, I would chat.
48:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all good.
48:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.
48:45
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
48:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Where is your favorite place to sleep?
48:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Favorite place to sleep?
48:50
[SPEAKER_02]: A huge hotel bed.
48:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, yes.
48:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, huge like a king bed and a nice hotel.
48:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Your video for coming of age inspired this question, what is your ideal hairstyle?
49:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I ideal hairstyle, curly mullet.
49:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is your favorite musical theater character?
49:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's hard.
49:12
[SPEAKER_01]: After we learn that all of this is not really into musical theater theater.
49:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't know.
49:17
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
49:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's a new one.
49:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your favorite psychology vocab word?
49:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's also hard.
49:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
49:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it hard to do just off the top of my head?
49:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
49:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, skip.
49:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
49:33
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's all right.
49:34
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your favorite dish to cook in your van?
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, tofu scrambled.
49:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
49:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
49:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Who should I follow on TikTok?
49:50
[SPEAKER_02]: The first person I came to mind
49:53
[SPEAKER_02]: is, I'm embarrassed to say because it's just like my crush, by the internet crush, but she knows that she's my internet crush.
50:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Rosemary Ace Rosas.
50:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
50:04
[SPEAKER_02]: She's my internet crush.
50:05
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, last question.
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: All of click.
50:08
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going to save us?
50:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, these are too hard.
50:13
[SPEAKER_02]: These are too hard.
50:15
[SPEAKER_02]: What's going to save us is being patient and gentle in understanding of people who are different than us.
50:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And that goes always.
50:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't just go the way of, it does go the way of like conservative boomers learning how to use people's pronouns, but it also goes the way of young people understanding that it takes a long time for considered boomers to understand how to use our products.
50:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It means like having conversations with like,
50:47
[SPEAKER_02]: veterans and like what they need and what they're lacking from the system.
50:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It means being open to hearing everybody's perspective and being open to having human connection and conversation with everyone, even if they seem super different from you and they seem like you wouldn't get along.
51:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It means having grace for everybody.
51:11
[SPEAKER_02]: even people who have messed up and done shitty things in the past because it's an it's an up-down fight at the end of the day.
51:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's every regular American versus like, then I sound like Bernie Sanders here versus the one percent who are trying to screw us all over.
51:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.
51:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not left versus right.
51:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's up versus down.
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I think awesome.
51:35
[SPEAKER_01]: All of thank you so much.
51:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
51:39
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode of Basic Folk was produced by Anthony Cabrera.
51:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Dietrich Strauss composes our music.
51:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Basic focus on the bluegrass situation podcast network.
51:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find all of our episodes there.
51:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You can check us out on basic folk.com.
51:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You can listen at folkalli.com or folkalli's mobile app.
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You can search for Basic Folk on the Series XM app.
52:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you can listen wherever you get your shows.
52:04
[SPEAKER_01]: If you enjoyed this episode, I suggest sharing it with a friend.
52:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps that friend who has an epic hairstyle that maybe doesn't grow down, it grows out.
52:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So that friend that also enjoys swimming
52:23
[SPEAKER_01]: in whatever natural situation is available to them.
52:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Send it to that friend.
52:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, thanks for listening all the way to the end.
52:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You're special and perfect just the way you are.
52:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk to you next time.
52:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye.