Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Precious TWINS found dead in TRASH

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Precious TWINS found dead in TRASH · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. When you drive down your
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  Speaker 1: suburban road, you very often see the garbage guys and
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  Speaker 1: garbage ladies as they are doing the dirty work of
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  Speaker 1: throwing your trash away. But imagine how they felt when,
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  Speaker 1: instead of saying trash tumbling in and out of their truck,
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  Speaker 1: they see the bodies of two tiny infants, newborns literally
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  Speaker 1: thrown away like trash Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened?
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  Speaker 1: That's the big question? Joining me right now and All
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  Speaker 1: Star panel to make sense of it all. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, renown criminal defense attorney, joining us out of LA.
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  Speaker 1: You can find him on Twitter at at Troy Slayton,
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  Speaker 1: Board certified clinical Psychologist, Professor of Behavioral Medicine at TRURO,
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  Speaker 1: author of the Causes of Autism. You can find him
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  Speaker 1: at doctor Jeff Gardere dot com. Genetic genealogist The gene
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  Speaker 1: Hunter at the gene Hunter dot com. Sharat LaPoint joining US.
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  Speaker 1: Forensics expert host of brand new hit podcast Shattered Souls.
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  Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert, doctor Kendall Crown's Deputy Medical Examiner,
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  Speaker 1: Travis County, Texas. That's Austin joining us but first, Terray Caputo,
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  Speaker 1: lead news anchor w DBO Ray, thank you for being
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  Speaker 1: with us before we get started. Take a listen to
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  Speaker 1: our friend Angie Marie at True Crime. El management employee
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  Speaker 1: was emptying trash bins in the forty one hundred block
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  Speaker 1: of South Latrove Avenue in Sydney Township. This is when
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  Speaker 1: she saw something odd mixed in with the trash that
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  Speaker 1: was tumbling out of the trash can and into the
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  Speaker 1: trash truck receptacle. Upon closer examination, she discovered an absolutely
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  Speaker 1: gruesome scene, the lifeless bodies of two sweet, innocent newborn
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  Speaker 1: baby boys. They'd been thrown out like they were trash,
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  Speaker 1: thrown out literally as trash. Can you imagine what that
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  Speaker 1: poor person went through saying that we'll stick with them
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  Speaker 1: for the rest of their lives. Hold on, Troice Slaton.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I remember the moment
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  Speaker 1: that I decided I've got to get any job in
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  Speaker 1: the DA's office. It was I was prosecuting a serial killer.
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  Speaker 1: We got him on one murder and very often as
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  Speaker 1: a finale, either at the close of the day or
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  Speaker 1: before the jury would retire for lunch, or at the
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  Speaker 1: end of the trial, I would put on a slide show.
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  Speaker 1: Typically the witness to identify each slide would be either
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  Speaker 1: the medical examiner that's where you would come in, doctor
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  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, or the lead detective who can testify lawfully
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  Speaker 1: to hearsay as to what went on in the investigation.
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  Speaker 1: So the lights would be out totally, there'll be complete silence.
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  Speaker 1: You know how many times I would practice at slide show,
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  Speaker 1: Troy Layton, because there's nothing like a technical malfunction in
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  Speaker 1: the middle of your slide show to kind of ruin
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  Speaker 1: the moment lights off. I had walked up to the
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  Speaker 1: screen to point out with my hand different things that
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  Speaker 1: were evidentiary of evidentiary importance, and I came to an autopsy,
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  Speaker 1: as I recall, and I was right there at the
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  Speaker 1: screen in the dark, and I just looked at it,
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  Speaker 1: and I remember it was a veteran trial judge on
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  Speaker 1: the bench. He said, miss Grace, because I had stopped,
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  Speaker 1: and I knew in that moment I needed to do
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  Speaker 1: something else because the weight of all that literally thousands
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  Speaker 1: of cases was just backbreaking. So when you get to
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  Speaker 1: a moment like this in a trial or a case,
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  Speaker 1: is something that sticks with you forever. Here we've got
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  Speaker 1: these garbage guys. See two infants, newborns dead tumbling out
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  Speaker 1: of the trash. It's a horrific incident and it's something
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  Speaker 1: that will stick with them and everybody involved in the
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  Speaker 1: case for the rest of their lives. And justice delayed
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  Speaker 1: in a case like this does not always mean justice denied.
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  Speaker 1: You're right, choice, Layton. Do you have cases that have
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  Speaker 1: a moment in them, something you've defended or investigated that
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  Speaker 1: you have never forgotten. There are some things in criminal law, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: as you well know that you can never unsee Judges
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  Speaker 1: talk about in court that you can't unring a bell.
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  Speaker 1: You can't unsee certain things. There are photographs that I
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  Speaker 1: have seen that have never made their way into a courtroom,
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  Speaker 1: that I've successfully kept out of evidence because their only
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  Speaker 1: purpose for the prosecutor to show them to the jury
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  Speaker 1: would be to inflame their passions and prejudices. Some pictures
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  Speaker 1: that were so awful that the only purpose would be
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  Speaker 1: to make the jury angry. Well, of course, according to you,
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  Speaker 1: and if it's a photo a crime scene, then is
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  Speaker 1: likely a truthful and accurate portrayal of what was saying
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  Speaker 1: there at the crime but because it was so upsetting
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  Speaker 1: it made you upset. You knew it would make the
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  Speaker 1: jury upset, as it should have. But I get they said,
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  Speaker 1: you don't just forget. Yes, But the purpose of showing
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  Speaker 1: something to a jury is to get to the truth.
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  Speaker 1: But that's why we have the standard in the law
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  Speaker 1: where if some if something's probitive value is significantly outweighed
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  Speaker 1: by its prejudicial effect, then it is not admissible. Aren't
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  Speaker 1: you before the horse? Because we haven't even gotten to
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  Speaker 1: if there were photos or any evidence other than the
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  Speaker 1: testimony of these garbage guys. So you know what bring
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  Speaker 1: it down a notch? Slaton back to Caputo. Ray, tell
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  Speaker 1: me about this location, Stickney Township. I know it's a
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  Speaker 1: little municipality in Illinois, right, Well, yeah, but it's a
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  Speaker 1: part of Chicago, Nancy, And if you look at it
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  Speaker 1: on a map, it's right there by Chicago Midway Airport,
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  Speaker 1: like literally right on the outskirts of one of the
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  Speaker 1: edges of the airport. If ever have lived in a
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  Speaker 1: city by an airport, you kind of understand the industrial
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  Speaker 1: type of area, and there are homes, but you know
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  Speaker 1: there's an airport, there's a big mail facility, there's car
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  Speaker 1: rental places, so I would consider it industrial. But also
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  Speaker 1: there are homes around the area, a lot of homes,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of residential areas. I'm looking at the town
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  Speaker 1: square there in Stickney Township. It's a population of about
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  Speaker 1: forty one thousand at the last census, which is a
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  Speaker 1: small town, and that weighs into the investigation. I want
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  Speaker 1: to go straight out to doctor Kendall Crowds, Deputy Medical Examiner,
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  Speaker 1: Chaves County. That's Austin, doctor Crowns. How can you look
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  Speaker 1: at an infant and immediately know it's a knee born.
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  Speaker 1: There's a few things. Often with fetuses or brand newborns,
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  Speaker 1: they still have the umbilical cord attached, and as the
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  Speaker 1: baby develops, the umbilical cord actually drives up and falls out.
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  Speaker 1: But when they're brand newborn, the umbilical cord is kind
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  Speaker 1: of white and pearlish looking, so you know that they
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  Speaker 1: haven't been out of the womb, so to say, for
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  Speaker 1: very long. When you see that. Back to ry computer
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  Speaker 1: at least news anchor WDB, what was the condition of
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  Speaker 1: the bodies? Take a listen ray to Angie Marie a
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  Speaker 1: true crime. One of the babies still had his placenta
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  Speaker 1: attached to him and the other babies placenta was found
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  Speaker 1: in a black shoebox near the baby. She immediately called
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  Speaker 1: nine to one one and so a long and frustrating
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  Speaker 1: investigation began. Authorities went around to everyone in the area
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  Speaker 1: to see if anyone had seen or heard anything, but
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  Speaker 1: nobody had. They spoke to several pregnant women in the area,
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  Speaker 1: but unfortunately this was just another dead end crime stories
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  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace for those of you just joining us
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  Speaker 1: at Fox Nation in series seem one eleven, imagine the
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  Speaker 1: shock of this garbage person. It's a woman, a garbage lady.
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  Speaker 1: When she sees not trash or soft drink containers or
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  Speaker 1: boxes or newspapers, she sees two tiny bodies pouring out
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  Speaker 1: of the trash, immediately calling nine one one, which leads
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  Speaker 1: to a long and frustrating investigation. Back to you, doctor Kendall.
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  Speaker 1: Crown's a deputy medical examiner in Austin. I know you
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  Speaker 1: just heard what. Angie reported that the placenta one placenta
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  Speaker 1: was a shoe box. One of the babies still had
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  Speaker 1: his placenta attached to him to baby boys, what does
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  Speaker 1: that tell you, doctor Kendall Crowns Well. Again, the fact
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  Speaker 1: that the placenta is still intact are attached, it shows
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  Speaker 1: that the child was just freshly born, because if you
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  Speaker 1: leave the placenta attached, you will have continual hemorrhage from
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  Speaker 1: the baby. Basically, when they take the baby out and
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  Speaker 1: they clamp the cord, that's to stop the blood coming
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  Speaker 1: out of the baby as well. So with the placenta
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  Speaker 1: is still attached, you know that kid didn't survive very
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  Speaker 1: long after birth. Again, it shows that these were offecially
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  Speaker 1: born children. Two infant boys. Straight out to Karen Smith,
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  Speaker 1: forensics expert, host of Shattered Souls podcast, now starting it's
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  Speaker 1: season two. Karen Smith, so many directions to go right
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  Speaker 1: now regarding evidence. For instance, your prints, a DNA on
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  Speaker 1: the body, FIBERUS on the body, but the trash itself,
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  Speaker 1: What garbage was used to hide these infant baby boys?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, was it household trash? Was there a credit
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  Speaker 1: card receipt? Was there a fingerprint on a soda can?
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  Speaker 1: There's just what direction do you go in on a
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  Speaker 1: scene like this, Karen Nancy, this is one of those
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  Speaker 1: scenes that just gives me nightmares. No crime scene or
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  Speaker 1: homicide investigator ever wants to get a call like this,
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  Speaker 1: and you're right, you have a garbage can. You know,
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  Speaker 1: who knows what was what was in there besides these
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  Speaker 1: two poor little infant boys. But you have to start somewhere,
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  Speaker 1: and frankly, that entire garbage can filled with trash needed
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  Speaker 1: to be documented, collected, photographed, tag bag and placed into
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  Speaker 1: evidence because you don't know if it's somebody from the
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  Speaker 1: immediate area. You don't know if it was somebody, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I would hardly think that they would put it in
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  Speaker 1: their outfront trash can, but who knows. You know, people
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  Speaker 1: don't think when they do things like this. So everything
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  Speaker 1: in that trash can, right, I don't think they're really thinking.
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  Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensic expert. As a matter of fact, doctor
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  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, what would the mother have gone through delivering
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  Speaker 1: these children and cutting the umbilical cord and delivering the placenta?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, what would she have gone through? Well, I
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  Speaker 1: mean the people give birth outside the hospital on you know,
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  Speaker 1: not on a regular basis, but it does happen. So
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  Speaker 1: she would have to birth the babies herself and then
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  Speaker 1: of course remove the placenta herself, which she would have
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  Speaker 1: had a lot of hemorrhaging associate or bleeding associated with that.
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  Speaker 1: So she would go through the birthing process by herself.
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  Speaker 1: It does it can be done, of course, It's been
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  Speaker 1: done throughout time. She would have to, you know, take
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  Speaker 1: the babies out on her own, and then make sure
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  Speaker 1: that also took the placenta out as well. Sometimes the
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  Speaker 1: placenta comes out on its own, but sometimes it can
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  Speaker 1: get stuck. She would have had a lot of bleeding
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  Speaker 1: associated with it. And then after that, if the cord
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  Speaker 1: tour on one of the babies as she was trying
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  Speaker 1: to get it out, the babies would be bleeding. There
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  Speaker 1: would be screaming of the children, probably screaming of the parent.
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  Speaker 1: It would be a kind of a bloody, screaming mess
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  Speaker 1: at the scene. And I'm just not really sure how
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  Speaker 1: you go about doing it all alone. I remember when
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  Speaker 1: I gave birth, I was so out of it, Lucy,
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  Speaker 1: and I almost died in the middle of all that.
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  Speaker 1: So I just had a wonderful, wonderful doctor that saved
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  Speaker 1: all three of us, you know, to doctor Jeff Gardier,
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  Speaker 1: Board certified Clinical Psychologist, Professor a Behavioral Medicine at Truro college,
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  Speaker 1: doctor Jeff, not only the physical requirements of giving birth,
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  Speaker 1: but the emotional toll it takes on someone to give birth.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, how would this woman have been in the
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  Speaker 1: right mind? And doctor Jeff, as you recall, you and
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  Speaker 1: I covered a case where an infant was found in
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  Speaker 1: a dumpster, but the infant had been beaten dead, and
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  Speaker 1: as it turned out, a co ed had given birth
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  Speaker 1: and her boyfriend beat the child. One of them beat
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  Speaker 1: the child and discarded of the infant, discarded the infant
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  Speaker 1: in a dumpster. So I'm trying to get into the
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  Speaker 1: frame of mind of a mother during and immediately after childbirth. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: of course, and it's a situation here where it can
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  Speaker 1: be absolutely traumatic. But given what are the circumstances before
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  Speaker 1: the birth, does she feel safe? Is there someone there
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  Speaker 1: to assist her, does she want the baby or the babies?
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  Speaker 1: What is her socio econom situation, what is her frame
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  Speaker 1: of mind? Is she mentally stable before this has begun?
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  Speaker 1: All of those things play into what the birthing process
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  Speaker 1: will be. And so when we see something like this
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  Speaker 1: where the fetuses are discarded in this way, it really
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  Speaker 1: does speak to that there were some circumstances there where
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  Speaker 1: these children were not wanted, or there were some very
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  Speaker 1: dire circumstances going on where some very horrible judgments were made.
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  Speaker 1: What does it mean to you, Karasmian forensic expert, that
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  Speaker 1: this was residential trash, not industrial trash. Well, it tells
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  Speaker 1: me that somebody probably lived in the area. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I cannot imagine. I do not have children, but I
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  Speaker 1: cannot imagine going far after giving birth to twin. I'm
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  Speaker 1: regardless of the circumstances, going far to do this disgusting,
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  Speaker 1: horrendous act of disposing them in a garbage can. So
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  Speaker 1: it would have to be somebody local or close by.
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  Speaker 1: In my opinion, Guys, we were talking about a garbage
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  Speaker 1: lady going about her routine. You know, I don't even
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  Speaker 1: like taking the garbage out to the chute in our
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  Speaker 1: apartment in New York, much less carting it out to
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  Speaker 1: the street. So but you do it. It's a chore,
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  Speaker 1: got to be done. Here is a lady minding her
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  Speaker 1: own business, doing her job, and she sees two infant
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  Speaker 1: boys newborns tumble out of the trash. First thing, secure
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  Speaker 1: the scene. All the trash and that truck, all the trash,
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  Speaker 1: and that garbage can. Has to be saved for evidentiary purposes.
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  Speaker 1: Can we find a receipt, can we find a fingerprint,
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  Speaker 1: can we find anything to identify who killed these babies?
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  Speaker 1: Then there is a transport of the babies to the
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  Speaker 1: medical examiner's office to take a listen to our friends
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  Speaker 1: at True Crime. The next day and autopsy was performed
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  Speaker 1: which showed that the boys had been alive at the
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  Speaker 1: time of their birth, but had died later due to asphyxiation,
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  Speaker 1: and so because of this, their desperate ruled homicides. Unfortunately,
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  Speaker 1: authorities were never able to determine the identity of the
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  Speaker 1: boys or determine who the boys' parents were, and so
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  Speaker 1: unfortunately the keys went called for many many years Crime
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  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just joining us,
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  Speaker 1: two infant, knee born twins are found in the trash
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  Speaker 1: by the garb lady. I want to go straight back
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  Speaker 1: to Karen Smith, forensic expert Karen cop Sing go door
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  Speaker 1: to door trying to speak to what neighbors have described
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  Speaker 1: as pregnant women that goes nowhere. What was their purpose? Well,
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  Speaker 1: they have to they have to just blanket the entire
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  Speaker 1: neighborhood because, like I said, this is going to be
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  Speaker 1: somebody local, Nancy, if they're not going to travel as
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  Speaker 1: far distance. So they had to question everybody, family members.
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  Speaker 1: Did you notice that one of your family members was
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  Speaker 1: pregnant and is no longer pregnant? Um? You know, questioning
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  Speaker 1: pregnant women. That was probably because you know, pregnant women
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  Speaker 1: might talk with each other about their experiences. Did you
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  Speaker 1: talk to somebody who was nervous or scared or or
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  Speaker 1: you know, had questions about giving birth? All of those
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  Speaker 1: things come into play, but unfortunately all of those leads
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  Speaker 1: went nowhere. Well, of course, doctor Jeff, they were looking
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  Speaker 1: for a potential killer. If a woman had been pregnant
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  Speaker 1: and they go and interrogate her, they find out as
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  Speaker 1: she's still pregnant or can't she produce the baby? That's
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  Speaker 1: why they talked to the ladies. Absolutely and again we
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  Speaker 1: talked about proximity. How much more proximity than can you
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  Speaker 1: have than the person who actually gave birth to the babies?
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  Speaker 1: Straight out to special guests joining us the gene hunter,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: and I don't mean blue chains, I mean ge n
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  Speaker 1: e hunter. Her name Cheryl La point Janetta. Genealogists found
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: her the gene Hunter at the gene hunter dot Com.
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl a point, we're just old trial lawyers here, so
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  Speaker 1: you're going to have to speak to us in terms
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: we can understand. I will never forget the first time
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  Speaker 1: I tried to explain to a jury de ox a
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  Speaker 1: ribo nicolaic acid. I finally just sat down and let
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: the expert describe it. But at the time these children
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  Speaker 1: were found ed in the trash, two infant boys, Kneeborn's twins,
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  Speaker 1: we didn't have anything called mitochondrial DNA right at the
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  Speaker 1: time that the babies were found. DNA was taken at
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  Speaker 1: the autopsy and about seventeen years ago, the only system
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  Speaker 1: that was available to try to find who the parent
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  Speaker 1: was was the system law enforcement uses, that is, the
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  Speaker 1: CODAS system. So the markers in the DNA were actually
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  Speaker 1: run against the CODAS system and there was no masses found,
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  Speaker 1: which basically means that the parents of these babies had
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  Speaker 1: never committed a crime and their DNA was not in
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  Speaker 1: the only system that was available to try to find
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  Speaker 1: who this parent was. To Troy Slayton, criminal defense attorney
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: joining us side of LA, if you could briefly describe
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  Speaker 1: in regular people taught not Latin phrases you picked up
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  Speaker 1: in law school. What is codis. A CODIS is a
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  Speaker 1: law enforcement database. It's a national database where law enforcement
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  Speaker 1: agencies from all over the country enter the DNA from
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  Speaker 1: people who have been typically arrested or convicted of felony
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  Speaker 1: offenses in their respective states. And the purpose is for
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  Speaker 1: exactly this type of situation where some DNA is found
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  Speaker 1: from a rape kit or from an autopsy, and it
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  Speaker 1: is then run against the database of all the people
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  Speaker 1: who have been arrested or convicted of significant offenses all
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  Speaker 1: over the country. Very often you don't see DNA get
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  Speaker 1: taken on a misdemeanor, but definitely on felonies. Is SAPA
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  Speaker 1: standard operating procedure. Now to doctor Kennel Crowns, Deputy Medical
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  Speaker 1: exam or Chows County, Texas, Austin, Doctor Crowns, when we
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  Speaker 1: see the DNA didn't match up in CODIS, how do
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  Speaker 1: you get DNA? How do you extract DNA from a
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  Speaker 1: newborn baby twin? So the DNA is extracted in a
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  Speaker 1: we what has done at autopsies. They take a blood
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  Speaker 1: sample and they place it on what we call a
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  Speaker 1: DNA card, which is a special card. It's coated with
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  Speaker 1: a fixative and then those cards are sent to the
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  Speaker 1: crime one a card or a piece of glass. What
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  Speaker 1: do you mean a card? A card? It's actually like
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  Speaker 1: a paper card with a special card. Similar. Yeah, so
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  Speaker 1: you take what blood? Saliva? What blood? They take a
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  Speaker 1: samples of blood from the decedent and place it on
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  Speaker 1: the card. But with a needle you extract blood like um,
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  Speaker 1: you went at the doctor's office. Well, so it's similar.
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  Speaker 1: But what we do is we remove the chest plate
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: and then directly get blood from the heart with a needle. Well,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: you know what I asked the question. I deserve that.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Why you would just get it with a needle like
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: at the doctor's office, I don't know, but thank you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: for that detail. I'll have that in my head tonight.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: So you remove the baby's chest plate and take the
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: blood directly from the heart. May I ask why that's
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: necessary when you could just do a pin prick. Well,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: if you're doing an autopsy and you do the blind
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: stabbing with the needle, you could cause damage to the
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: internal organs. That then you would have to explain once
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: you got in there to do the autopsy from an arm.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Taking blood from the baby's arm would do more damage
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: than opening up the breastplate. You can't take blood from
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: an arm in a dead body because there's no pressure leaps.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: So when they're taking your blood at the hospital, you
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: have blood pressure that allows blood to flow into the tubes.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: When the body's dead and there's no heart beating, everything's stagnant.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: So what you have to do is you have to
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: get into the body cavity to get the blood itself.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: You can't just stick it in an arm because nothing's
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: pumping anymore, so you wouldn't be able to get any
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: blood at all. And Troy's Laton veteran criminal defense attorney,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I've just displayed for everyone why A you try not
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: to get into an argument with an expert not in
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: your field because they will win. And number two never
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: at trial ask the question you don't know the answer to.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And number three because it'll make you look like an agent.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: And number three prepare, prepare, prepare, because at trial, if
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I already knew what Crowns was gonna say, I would said,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I would have said, And isn't it true, Doctor Kindla Crowns,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: you had to open the breastplate to get the blood
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: for a very specific reason. You couldn't just take the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: blood from the arm like at the doctor's office. Explain, right, Troy,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I mean there you go, be prepared and don't ask
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: the question you don't know the answer to. That's true.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: But when I'm asking questions, usually as a criminal defense,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: it's attorney. Most of my questions are what are called
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: leading questions, where I'm asking the question that pretty much
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: has the answer in the question. In other words, you're
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: making an argument in front of the jury question my question, Like,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: isn't that right, doctor Crowns. Yes, I know you're I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: know your style. And as for a reason, so doctor
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, you take the blood directly from the heart,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: you put it on something like an index card, and
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I'm sure seal it so people like Troy Slayton cannot
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: then argue with the chain of custody that somebody put
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: somebody else's blood on the card. And then you get
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to someone like Shara LaPoint, the genetic genealogist. Once the
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: lab gets the blood sample, the dot. It really only
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: takes a dot, right Shara, what do they do? Yes, Nancy,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: they have a dot of blood and they run they
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: get a profile. Now the profile that was obtained when
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: these babies were found was not able to be used
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: in the system we as genetic genealogists used. It's a
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: different process. So you actually have to get this DNA
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: now in a file that can be uploaded to sites
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: that we use to compare DNA matches. So that had
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: to have been done with a sample of DNA that
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: was degraded that the lab actually stored for about seventeen years.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: And in a nutshell, what is ge dmatch dot com?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: What is that? So that is a site that was
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: developed by two gentlemen who were genealogists, and we like
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: to compare our results with people that we match. But
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: you may have tested at one company and I may
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: have tested at another company. So we can upload our
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: results no matter where we test to jed match and
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: we can compare our results. We can see how we
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: match to each other, or we can compare ethnicity results.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: There's a fine pools that we use crime stories with
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace and now in the search for who left
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: these infants purposely throwing them in the trash to die.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to WGN nine Chicago's Rob Snead, Cook
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: County Sheriffs of instigators reopened the investigation and used DNA
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: from the scene to attempt to identify the birth mother.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: It's called it's investigative genetic genealogy where a familial DNA
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: profile is developed from DNA and uploaded into a database.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: It's an open source database called jedmatch dot com. We
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: had contracted pairabon Nanilabs to assist us with finding the
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: first mother of these babies. Investigators travel to Holland and
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: obtain a discarded item containing Briley's DNA, and the DNA
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: was a match. According to authorities, I discarded item. I
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: had cases where a cop saw a target eat a
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: pizza and they went in after the pizza was discarded
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: and got DNA off the crust of the pizza. Take
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: a listen again to WG and Chicago. Nine authorities say
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: a national case inspired the handling of this case paras
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a Golden State killer case broke through genetic genealogy. It
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: was the first case it was solved through genetic genealogy,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: so I had I had approached the W two investigation
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Sean Gleason after that happened and after if we could
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: open the case. He said yeah, and they did. Reopen
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the investigation, and that investigation led them to near by
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Holland take a listen to our friends at crime online
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: dot com. Antoinette Briley was born and raised in the
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Chicago area. She's a forty one year old single mother
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: of a daughter. She currently lives in Holland, Michigan, and
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: works very long hours at a local factory. Riley doesn't
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: have any criminal history, and she's described as a productive
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: member of society. A forty one year old single mom
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: of a daughter who we've learned is age twelve. Antoinette
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Briley Terray Kaputo. How did the cops id Antoinette Briley
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: through DNA? Yeah, Nancy through DNA. What they did was
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: they went to Holland, Michigan, which is a state over
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: from where she used to live where all this happened.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: And you can understand why she slipped below people's radars
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: because this is a woman leading a relatively mild wife,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: no you know, raising a child, working a job. But
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: they ended up finding a cigarette butt that she had smoked,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: and they picked it up from her unwittingly, and she
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: became a match. The DNA matched her, So that's how
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: she ended up getting picked up. So mommy'spect cigarette throws
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: down the butt. Cops are watching. They get the cigarette
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: butt under the law. If you abandoned properties, throw it
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: in the trash, throw down a cigarette butt, leave across
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: the pizza. It's fair game. They don't need a warrant
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: if you abandon the property or the cigarette butt. But
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: to you Cheryl LaPoint Genetic genialis the gene hunter dot
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: com Shara, How did they find Briley to start with?
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: When they look through the matches, the shared matches of
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: DNA once the DNA from the twins was put into jedmatch,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: they sorted groups of matches and they found shared ancestors.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: And they use typical genealogical tools like birth certificates and
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: historical records, and they build family trees to find where
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: this all leads to. They look at an area where
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the families are from. They look at married couples and
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: see if you have DNA on both of those lines,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and they continue to build a family tree until they
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: get to an area where you have a suspect, where
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: you can give law enforcement names and say these are
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: possible suspects, finding let's see if they match. So to
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: get a match on geed jedmatch. It doesn't mean you
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: have a criminal history that would show up in codas.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: This woman does not have a criminal history. She's holding
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: down a job and raising a twelve year old little girl.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: She's forty one years old now. But what the DNA
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: from the baby shows with modern technology called familial DNA,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: is a match to somebody in Briley's family. Therefore, they
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: don't know it's Brile yet. They go all the way back,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: and in fact, they could go back as far as
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds, and you follow the family trade down, down, down, down,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: down down until you find a woman who would have
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: been in childbearing age seventeen years ago. Then you look
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: in this area and then you narrow it down. They
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: go to Antoinette Briley's home and work. They watch her,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: which they are allowed to do under the law. They
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: see her discard a cigarette butt. They get it. They
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: compare the DNA, and then they know who the birth
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: mother is. Take a listen to our friends at WG
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: and Chicago nine. I thought, do you say that mother
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: is forty one year old? Answer one, Ed Briley. They
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: say that she's of Holland, Michigan. Now they say that
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: they use DNA to link her back to her twin
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: boys that they say she threw away like trash. I'm
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: happy that they're closer for the twinn you know, there
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: was nobody fighting for them, so I am happy that,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: you know, we identified who did this to them, and
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a surreal feeling. The announcement came seventeen
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: years after a waste management employee found twin brothers in
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: a Stickney township Alley Andre will Jones ABC seven. A
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: trash collector discovered their bodies while emptying a garbage bin
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: in Stickney Township that been belonged to Don Pechnic. Was
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: indescribable that someone would do that. Investigators say Briley lived
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: about a mile and a half away from the crime scene.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Pechnic remembers detectives questioning her and others in the neighborhood.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: It wasn't tears, I didn't and Clinton was in chuck.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: We did multiple interviews off and down the block, you know,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: checking doing canvases, but we didn't get anything back then.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: That's why this case now jump in that way is
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: so good. Detectives have not released a motive for the murders.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: They say Briley does have a daughter. Pecnic says she
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: has always thought about the twins and what happened to them?
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: What was going through her mind? And no, I think
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: it is I think of them. Then Briley is arrested.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut fourteen ABC seven. Cook
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: County Chrieff's police say through genetic genealogy they were able
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: to eventually connect DNA evidence recovered from the scene to Briley.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: As part of the investigation, Riffs police detectives traveled to Holland, Michigan,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: and obtained discarded items Briley's DNA, which was then matched
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: to DNA from the victims. On Thursday, detectives learned Briley
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: was in the Chicago area. She was arrested joining a
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: tra stop in Oaklawn. Riley was transported to the Sheriff's
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: police headquarters here in Maywood, where she admitted post Miranda
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: who were involvement in the birth, death, and disposal of
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the two deceased infants. But why why? Take a listen
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: to our friend Joy Barge and our cut eight at
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: crime online dot Com. Reports say that Antoinette Briley, then
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: twenty four, is alone at her grandparents home on the
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: day of June six, two thousand and three. She notices
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: bleeding and is having cramps, so she gets into the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: shower and she starts giving birth to the first baby.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Riley then describes that she felt more pressure and realized
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: she was giving birth to a second baby. After delivery,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: she sees that both infants are mail and are crying,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: but not loud enough for neighbors to hear. She describes
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the sound as whimpering, and then Ray Kimputer ol news
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: anchored WDBO. How do they go from her bathtub, her
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: grandparents bathtub to a trash can? Oh, this is really,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: said Nancy. She puts them in a duffel bag, these
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: newborn kids, wondered them. The placenta is still attached. Puts
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: them in duffel bags and she gets into her car
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: and she says that she's going to go to the hospital.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Now I'm looking at a map. In the hospital where
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: these children were left was only blocks and blocks away.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: It wasn't too far. But she decided at some point
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that she was going to dump them in a garbage
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: can in an alley, So she took him out of
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: the bag, and she did just that. She threw them
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: in that garbage can with trash. Doctor Jeff Guard, you,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: let's get real. If you were taking babies to the hospital,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: why would she stuff them in a duffle bag? Absolutely
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: well with them being suffocated in the duffel bag, and
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: it shows that possibly not only was she emotionally unstable,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: but not at all invested in this, and that she's
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: not holding them, she's not nurturing them. She puts them
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: in a duffel bag in order to take them away.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: You're saying emotionally unstable. That is not insanity under the law.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: She knew very well what she was doing. She put
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: him in a duffel bag, put the placenta in a
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: cardboard box, through it all in the trash. Even said
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I thought about taking them to the hospital, but then
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: change my mind. This is a case a murder one.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I hate to see a single mom of a twelve
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: year old girl go to jail. She ran, that's true,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: she hid, but you cannot hide. For a modern day science,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: we wait as just as a holes. Nancy Grace Crime
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Story signing off, Goodbye friend,