Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of What's Real | Annabelle Schneider | S8 E6
Transcript
- 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:16:06 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to a fun episode of Future of XYZ a meaningful one too. We're talking about the future of what's real, a super tiny topic right at about. 00:00:16:08 - 00:00:17:17 Speaker 2 So tiny. 00:00:18:12 - 00:00:19:24 Speaker 2 Very overwhelming. 00:00:20:01 - 00:00:44:07 Speaker 1 Very overwhelming. Well, Annabelle Schneider is joining us today as our guest. She's a Swiss born, New York City based experi ence designer and artist. she holds graduate degrees in strategic design management from HSLU in Lucerne, Switzerland. As well as, a master's in interior design from Parsons School of Design in New York City, where she also teaches. 00:00:44:07 - 00:01:06:24 Speaker 1 Now, she has a private design practice. She's worked with tons and tons of, big brands and our, our art and architecture. And we'll talk about some of that work. and as well, she was named in 2023, part of the future 100 by Metropolis magazine, as one of the most promising, designers in US and Canada, which I would certainly agree with. 00:01:07:04 - 00:01:29:11 Speaker 1 And, the work that is floating behind her breathe with me has received all sorts of international accolades, including the German Design Award, most recently, honors from New York City by Design last year, the Interior Design Awards, as well as a nomination for the Swiss Design Prize in 2025. Annabelle, thanks so much for being with us on Future of XYZ today. 00:01:29:13 - 00:01:32:13 Speaker 2 Thank you for having me. It's very exciting. 00:01:32:15 - 00:01:57:16 Speaker 1 well, I mean, when we were discussing what we were going to talk about because your work is quite large in breadth, as is your expertise at your vision. we got to this very fun and very, as we said, unambitious topic of what's real. So just for the sake of context, how are we defining what's real in light of your expertise as well as what we want to achieve in today's conversation. 00:01:57:18 - 00:02:23:05 Speaker 2 I feel reality is very much constructed, and I'm coming from a very much constructed background by constructive environments and making spaces. And as more we are hyperconnected digitally and super disconnected physically, I feel those physical constructed spaces and the moment of time like the presence becomes much more important to define what is real because it's very, very fragmented. 00:02:23:07 - 00:02:44:18 Speaker 1 it's so interesting. I mean, as you mentioned, your background is highly structured. So you have this degree in strategic design management, but also interior design. It kind of makes you both a strategist in a way, and experiential designer. How has this educational and professional background changed how you see what real. 00:02:44:20 - 00:03:09:15 Speaker 2 I think at the core of everything I'm doing as people like that was also the main motivation of why I went to strategic design management, because first I wanted to do architecture right away or illustration back then. And for me, it's really about how people connect and I feel that's always happening. The most realist in a physical space in the moment, it's like, and spaces are not alive without people creating stories in them. 00:03:09:20 - 00:03:37:23 Speaker 2 So I feel those moments are very important and, you know, design and art or like just everything multi sensorial that we consciously decide as designers to place in certain points and also work with scale and sound and all this other signals. are influencing how we move through space. And I think that's the continuous moment. And strategic design management was very broad and it helped me till this day like to understand the bigger scale, but also think about the future. 00:03:37:23 - 00:03:58:05 Speaker 2 That's why I'm also so interested in that topic and in your podcast and everything, because I think it's more important than ever that we're talking about where are we going in a super accelerated speed? well, it's the interior design brings it, you know, to a grounded, hopefully grounded, more decision. Like, I make a decision, I go to this space, why. 00:03:58:09 - 00:04:16:02 Speaker 2 And I think in a time where we really like, we can have everything with the push of a bottom or even with Siri or something accessible to us. And there's a generation they already grow up with like that. And I feel this is very dangerous because you get it very much through an algorithm or through whatever app you want to have. 00:04:16:08 - 00:04:25:12 Speaker 2 So I think going to physical spaces is very, very important for us, for our health, for the way we connect, for the way we see reality. 00:04:25:14 - 00:04:50:11 Speaker 1 Well, I want to get to physical spaces because you're creating a lot of them. But I'm curious, you've mentioned technology a few times. and we all know I mean, AI is kind of everywhere, and both of us have like virtual backgrounds going on right now, but like, right, like, so what's real exactly? But in this age of AI and just real technological acceleration that we've been living in, how has this altered your perspective on what's real? 00:04:50:11 - 00:04:57:07 Speaker 1 I mean, you talk about the people and I want to come to that, but like, how do you perceive what's real these days? 00:04:57:09 - 00:05:30:21 Speaker 2 I think the you know, you said I'm an experienced designer and I went with this term. I still go with this term, but I really think it's so much about the embodied presence and like really be physically there. And that's why I'm also working in multi sensorial design and to really work with those layers and consciously choreograph points throughout the space like, you know, some scent, some all this touch and like sound and frequencies, all this material things or like, you know, bodily things that we cannot replicate in a very flat digital life. 00:05:30:22 - 00:05:50:04 Speaker 2 And I think AI makes everything perfect. I mean, that's we discussed, but very flat and very sleek and very like our backgrounds. I mean, it's like, yeah, and it's it's fine. It's a tool. But I think as a designer we're much more or us as people, we need to bring more meaning to life. We need to construct realities for the moment. 00:05:50:04 - 00:06:14:06 Speaker 2 That actually makes sense. And we need to work with time because we are not digesting so much anymore. When everything is so fast and so like here it is. Okay, great headline. Here is it's great and it's. Yeah. And I also I also want to say I wrote down like because when you ask me this question I was really like yeah I there's kind of a structure in that too. 00:06:14:06 - 00:06:35:17 Speaker 2 So I said real is also embodiment. I feel it and then it's experience I was there. So I'm telling someone the resonant is a very big topic. I feel like more and more in our time. So it moved me. And you have to explain that, like you have to give it time to actually feel something. Yeah. And then I tell you, but for you it might be different than for me. 00:06:35:19 - 00:06:46:21 Speaker 2 And then it's also the community validation. We experienced this together and we are in this at this moment together. And that was something when I wrote down those things, like I was thinking about the blizzard in New York. 00:06:46:21 - 00:06:47:16 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. 00:06:47:16 - 00:07:07:01 Speaker 2 And how the snow was a perfect example of this. You know, people go out and all of a sudden we are connecting and we're taking time and we are not busy anymore at this moment. And creating this sculptures everywhere in New York, like snowmen or whatever it was. And we are in this together and we look at each other and we're like, can you believe we're here? 00:07:07:01 - 00:07:14:08 Speaker 2 It's so beautiful and it's magical. And all of a sudden time slows down. It becomes still. And that was a perfect example, I feel. 00:07:14:11 - 00:07:31:06 Speaker 1 Of embodied presence and yeah, yeah. And I think it's interesting because in some ways it's really in the way you're describing it. This isn't about a rejection of technology or nostalgia. It's really about like humanity and what makes us unique. Right? Or like what makes us human. 00:07:31:08 - 00:07:56:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%. I think technology's there to stay. I mean, it's so much engraved in our daily life, like, just see how much addicted we are to the phones or something. And it's yeah, I'm not fighting it. But I ask for discernment and for spaces that really the, the massive contrast of like where somebody can be vulnerable, where somebody can be, you know, things are imperfect or we can actually feel safe and open up. 00:07:56:18 - 00:08:03:19 Speaker 2 And maybe it's becoming very much separate. But technology is a tool to achieve things and processes will change. 00:08:03:21 - 00:08:32:14 Speaker 1 But when you think about this like so, I mean, thinking about the technological advancements, I mean, and I specifically we're we're facing in 2026, some of the lowest levels of trust that we've ever had at a global level in information right in, in what is real actually there's this been this hyper acceleration of technology over I would argue that there is a total collective overstimulation in addition to the inability to discern real from not real. 00:08:32:16 - 00:08:51:12 Speaker 1 And there's this kind of low effort situation happening across the board that people are like so overwhelmed that they don't even want to like, figure it out. So why does this embodied presence actually matter? Like what? What does what does this like? Why are you trying to do what you're doing? 00:08:51:14 - 00:09:16:08 Speaker 2 Well, again, I'm not fighting the reality of overstimulation that that our nervous systems are fried and we're not able to connect any more properly. there's a lot of, like, something is empty and something from this flat, like flatness lacks of depth. Depth? Like. Not this. I'm not like that. And I feel we all feel that. But it's very hard to put in place. 00:09:16:08 - 00:09:40:01 Speaker 2 And with my work, I try to create those literally bubbles that you can see. Also in the background that are breathing, that are very multi sensorial and they're not. The aim is not to take you out from the reality like from the other world we're navigating, but bring you back where time is stretched and, you know, strangers become maybe more soft and you actually feel you give yourself some time to emotionally just process. 00:09:40:01 - 00:09:58:14 Speaker 2 And I had a lot of experience that are also very critical, man. They say, I showed it in a, in a, in a shopping mall in Uzbekistan where it really was like. And people also ask me like, why don't you show this in the art museum, like in a museum or in a gallery or something? And I was like, no, then I target those people that are coming there. 00:09:58:16 - 00:10:21:04 Speaker 2 I already expect I'm going to see design or art or something. I want to target everyone that also has no access to those things otherwise, but I want to see their reaction to and in a shopping mall with such a paradox, because it's really about reflecting of what do I actually consume? those men they went into there, they took pictures and they came back and they were asking me, so what do we do exactly? 00:10:21:04 - 00:10:39:19 Speaker 2 It's just this white bubble that's breathing and smelling that there are some sound. I'm like, yeah, well, it's also very soft. Go back and lie down and take your time. And then after two hours again, they came out and they gave me a big hug and they were like, wow, you know, were you really made of think about life? 00:10:39:21 - 00:11:03:06 Speaker 2 And that's, I think the shift of perspective as it's really this moment of like, hold on. And, you know, also symbolically, I think we all need our bubbles where we can like, yeah, really go quickly, sit down, sit with your feelings and not be impatient when something feels very crazy. This is life. Two this is the life of navigating like we have to sit with it, but also let it go through our body. 00:11:03:12 - 00:11:09:20 Speaker 2 And I think design can help a lot because it can be so multi sensorial. 00:11:09:22 - 00:11:52:21 Speaker 1 Well, I mean I think that's actually really interesting piece of this because historically. Right. Like it was either religion or mass media or institution and or just the collective somehow knowing that what's real was clear. And today, obviously it's hard to not only not know what's real, but certainly who gets to declare it. So. And you talked about that again in terms of this, like, you know, artists and designers are kind of the reality framers, if you think about this embodiment experience resonance community validation that you talked about, but is there is there a responsibility that you're arguing that design and designers have in this moment? 00:11:52:23 - 00:12:16:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think they have to. You know, design is always like storytelling in a way. Also like life is storytelling. Brands do the same like it's making meaning, making make sense of things that are in place. And I think we really have the responsibility to create more depth and that are more to the human and more for our well-being or like, you know, just, yeah, connection. 00:12:16:04 - 00:12:37:15 Speaker 2 Because the time you're also navigating right now is so much about disconnection. Same also with algorithms and the information we get from everywhere. Yeah. Where is the source? Like what is the source. And so polarizing. So I think it's very important to or it's a yeah, it's a huge responsibility from a designer or an artist or somebody that crafts a space where people actually 00:12:37:15 - 00:12:56:05 Speaker 2 should come whether you're individual or you go as a community or you meet as a community, that you have this shared experience and it does something to you and maybe you cannot really explain what it is, but you felt something, and then you take that and you're going out of this space and you keep on living. So you have your symbolic little bubble or something like that. 00:12:56:08 - 00:12:56:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:12:56:22 - 00:13:20:22 Speaker 1 You you've talked before and about about discernment and discerning what's real, I find, is a fascinating concept right now. I find discernment in general interesting. And the way that you framed it in terms of these spaces, which I want to talk about in a minute, is about kind of like nervous system safety, which I think, you know, I, I'm pretty well informed on trauma. 00:13:20:22 - 00:13:46:17 Speaker 1 And trauma has a lot to do with nervous system regulation. And what you're arguing is that in these hyper kind of overstimulated places where the nervous system isn't necessarily like calibrated, and we're not in touch with our humanity. Right? And our feelings, we can't actually we're not well positioned to discern what's real from what's not. Is is that part of what you're trying to do with your work as well? 00:13:46:17 - 00:13:49:14 Speaker 1 And this kind of idea of embodied presence. 00:13:49:16 - 00:14:14:09 Speaker 2 Hundred percent, it's really like first of all, like as I said before, it's soft spaces, very organic spaces on purpose. Everything I did also before that project was very always soft or organic, kind of related to beds or pillows or things like that, something that also brings you back to a very sheltered space, like in the bed or as a kid, you know, when you made like things with, with your blankets or something, you feel safe. 00:14:14:11 - 00:14:43:00 Speaker 2 So I think safe spaces in a way, and design again, like organic shapes or like hawks or like people also don't feel like it's like a womb or like, you know, the roots of something. So I think the shapes, the materials, the sounds like I have on purpose, low frequency sounds that are, you know, it's not spa music, but it's it's also journeys of like also dramatic but on purpose because you should feel that presence and that it's really like changing, like emotional strains to life. 00:14:43:02 - 00:15:12:06 Speaker 2 It's not always just still. And yeah, I think that has a and the aspect of slowing time and there's no require. I'm not saying you have to feel that or this is reality, you should find your own reality. But I give you the space for it. Yeah. And you should think about this like while you have a decluttered space right now, it's your you also put your phone away at some point because you realize, and I observe that many times I realize that, yeah, they took some pictures, which is completely fine. 00:15:12:06 - 00:15:39:03 Speaker 2 And we talked about that too, when we were talking about all the design weeks or installations all over the place, and you see them on Instagram or whatever, and then myself looking at them, of course, I'm like, yeah, great. I saw that, I saw that it's fine. I don't have to go. But my goal or I think goals of the future is really about creating more spaces where you, you cannot really depict how it is unless you have been there with your full body, because you need to give yourself time, and also with the discernment. 00:15:39:03 - 00:15:46:11 Speaker 2 You need to give yourself time to critically evaluate that what you're having in front of you. 00:15:46:13 - 00:16:14:06 Speaker 1 I love that. Let's let's talk about this. breathe with me. you had, prior to that, done a earlier work called, being in Bed, which you showed, both during New York City Design Week and swap Barcelona and Alcoba during Art Basel Miami. and that's when we first met, which was this kind of VR bed inflatable thing that was quite small, but like blue, like not too, but like mixed metaphors, but blew up. 00:16:14:10 - 00:16:44:16 Speaker 1 It really did it. Like it took on a life of its own. And the next year you introduce Breathe With me, which debuted at New York by Design and has, as you mentioned, it was in a mall in Uzbekistan, but it's been in Barcelona and Tashkent and Dubai and Toronto and Basel and all sorts of other places. But both of these installations, I know the one I want to talk about also for Salone in Milan this week, this this month, next month is really inviting participants to become aware of the present moment. 00:16:44:16 - 00:17:00:08 Speaker 1 And as you mentioned, their kind of own emotional landscape. Like is there a do you think this is for everyone or are there like certain people who need this more than others? Like, what are you evoking? Like what is what was the original thesis? 00:17:00:10 - 00:17:22:18 Speaker 2 It's really for humanity, for everyone. It's so planned. And I would, you know, it's study in strategic design management that you always have your target groups working very long for branding and always have no clear. But for me, it's really like we are all together collectively in this like hyper digitalized world. And as long as we sometimes we I think we're already cyborgs. 00:17:22:18 - 00:17:44:21 Speaker 2 So I'm like, you know. Yeah. What what is actually the human and also and I think it's the vulnerability and from the little kid to the very old person, everybody is connecting through vulnerability. And I think when you say the lowest level of trust, also, you know, once you open up, you give yourself some time. And you were two people together in this bubble. 00:17:44:23 - 00:18:04:01 Speaker 2 And it's kind of a rebirth of like, oh yeah, while I'm here. And as I said before, too, like strangers become maybe softer or, you know, you respect each other or you start actually to look at each other or talk. You can observe all those things and, and I, I'm so certain that it's for everyone because I showed it in so many places already. 00:18:04:01 - 00:18:30:17 Speaker 2 And no matter where on the planet, the reactions are very much the same and they're very grateful. And yeah, people share with me a lot of stories and often they come back from childhood, which is very important. Like it's super interesting. It's like a whole research project on itself, but I'm like realizing it more. And I and usually I also I told you this before too, I was like, oh, I don't do a project so long. 00:18:30:17 - 00:18:48:05 Speaker 2 Like I want to go on to the next one. But then I realized, no, actually those it's the more we go, the more difficult to really understand. And I get more and more resonance for it. And right now it's for three month installed on a Swiss mountain like you also have to have a, you know, you have to make a decision. 00:18:48:05 - 00:19:05:01 Speaker 2 I actually go on this mountain and it's a 45 minute gondola ride and everything, and then you just go into this bubble. But it's very successful right now. And for me, it's strange because usually I was always with this bubble and people always talk to me, and now it's there and I'm not there anymore. So I'm like, what? 00:19:05:01 - 00:19:10:17 Speaker 2 What's happening? I want to hear what I like, but more because it's just like people are emotional after this. 00:19:10:23 - 00:19:29:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. and I imagine that the, the physical place where it is like the mall in Tashkent versus the right versus, I think that's the it's Pakistan versus like the, the mountain top in Switzerland. Those also evoke different experiences when someone enters into or exits from this bubble. 00:19:29:20 - 00:19:48:18 Speaker 2 100%. And that's also interesting that your background, you know, like because I was very intrigued by and I also think, you know, spirituality and all these things become much more relevant in the time we are because we kind of lost. And I think it gets the patterns of this constructed, you know, planet patterns and everything they give throughout history. 00:19:48:18 - 00:20:11:13 Speaker 2 They also give some sort of a guidance. Yes, I think that's more and more people seek that or also the connection to nature in general, you know, like tree hugging becomes huge or is already huge. And ten years ago I would have said, oh, such a spiritual, but whatever. But I, I think in this time it's really like we seek the natural, we seek the cycles, we seek the, you know, not everything can bloom all the time. 00:20:11:13 - 00:20:33:12 Speaker 2 Like we also have to go inwards and then to fly again or in this groundedness. So the mountain is really much same as in nature. You can go hiking, but if you need to, you can take pictures and it's great, but to really feel it, you need to maybe sit on a bench or on a stone and like let yourself actually look around and feel. 00:20:33:16 - 00:20:35:03 Speaker 1 And in all your. 00:20:35:05 - 00:20:56:20 Speaker 2 And yeah, and I that was very intriguing for me to show it on a mountain in it's inside the building because of the weather in the winter. But I tried to read projections and everything. I try to bring in nature in that way, and then the nature also within us. That's anyway, that's maybe also back to your other question, you know, is it for whom is it like it's for everyone? 00:20:56:20 - 00:21:16:24 Speaker 2 Because breath is our compass. I call it breathe with me because. And this thing is breathing, like, slowly. Because it's ground. A ground source is a guide. But it's also it makes us all the same, even though everybody of us breathe differently. That's a that's apparently reality. But yeah. 00:21:17:01 - 00:21:52:04 Speaker 1 No, but it's so fascinating. You seem to believe Annabel somehow like the rebirth of the real or the real just in general is is pro human. And that that's what I seem to be getting from you in the mid 21st century and looking ahead like, what's the impact of and of of something a rebirthing a real that is pro human while at the same time not anti tech. 00:21:52:06 - 00:21:54:04 Speaker 1 sorry, I know these are really light questions. 00:21:54:06 - 00:21:59:22 Speaker 2 I don't know this answer, but what do you think? 00:21:59:24 - 00:22:11:02 Speaker 1 Wow. That's funny. It's not me who's being interviewed. I think I thought this question. What do you. I mean, what do you hope the impact is? 00:22:11:04 - 00:22:36:24 Speaker 2 that we. Yeah. We are more careful with each other. And this sounds very naive, because I know I also grew up in a in a world full of war and everything. And I'm like, yeah, humans are just sometimes really not nice. And I guess we want that. And do we want to be alive? But now I think that we believe in good creations and taking find more respect for our balance. 00:22:36:24 - 00:23:01:11 Speaker 2 And, you know, also work and money. It's very creative to say in this time. But I think there is a shift like things, other priorities and health. I mean, I read this crazy, crazy report, ones from the U.N. that said, and that was like maybe three years ago. That said, in 2030, the biggest death rate is suicide. And I'm like, well, and since ever I'm very interested. 00:23:01:12 - 00:23:24:02 Speaker 2 Also, like you say, you're also like very informed about trauma and everything and same for me. But and you can see it everywhere like like mental health. And there's all these new declared issues are having mental health conditions and everything. And I'm like, yeah, I think also everybody has something and we're collectively suffering. We're not well. So I. 00:23:24:02 - 00:23:24:11 Speaker 1 Agree with. 00:23:24:11 - 00:23:41:24 Speaker 2 That. And I also think, you know, design and art or especially design, I was really also at the point where I felt we don't need a new chair. Like like I'm yeah, I'm all for design and it has a lot of power, but there's so many like also in sustainability. What materials do you choose? Like what's the longevity of this thing? 00:23:41:24 - 00:24:12:13 Speaker 2 But also what does it do to us? Is it just for identity or is it really to bring some benefit in our rituals, in our daily journey, in how we're going through life? And maybe we need those help things that I haven't thought about this so much, because I also think it's sounds maybe that a very naive or through a pink glasses like, you know, yeah, we have, but I think we need spaces for more offline or where it becomes very irrelevant for a moment. 00:24:12:15 - 00:24:27:17 Speaker 1 I, I love that idea. Actually. I don't think it sounds naive. I think it sounds humanistic. at the end of the day, and you're doing it. I mean, that's that's the cool thing, obviously, you know, people people are responding, as you said, there's resonance. 00:24:27:19 - 00:24:29:02 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:24:29:04 - 00:24:57:00 Speaker 1 as we kind of think about coming to the end, I want to look ahead and about to your upcoming project. As I alluded to in April, designer and, Milan Design Week, which is salon, in Milan, Italy, will happen. It's a big it's kind of like a little art balls on its own way, a little New York City Design Week in its own way, but it's basically the big furniture and interiors fair that happens in Milan every year. 00:24:57:00 - 00:25:17:08 Speaker 1 But it's become kind of a cultural phenomenon as well. and you're actually doing something there, which I thought was kind of amazing because I actually didn't know that you were titling it this until after we had already decided on the name of this episode, which is really, really crazy to me. But it's the renaissance of the real. 00:25:17:10 - 00:25:47:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't know how that didn't come up, but it didn't. but you're doing this with us. like the modular, beautiful Swiss furniture company and Snohetta, which is one of the world's largest, construction design build firms. and I guess this is exploring further kind of what's behind you, the breathing. Tell us more just briefly about what how you got to this renaissance of the real. 00:25:47:09 - 00:25:53:03 Speaker 1 What does that mean? And and. Yeah. And why why that. 00:25:53:05 - 00:26:15:08 Speaker 2 Well, we also coming back to us I quickly I have to say maybe. Yeah, it's they had their 60th anniversary and the US, is a modular system that's all very innovative and intelligent through their member and ball joint. That's round. And, you know, I already did something with them during the first launch of recently, I was in New York City for New York City by design. 00:26:15:08 - 00:26:35:09 Speaker 2 And but the USA was on its own and the bubble was on its own, and we had some daybeds from us, some inside the bubble. But there was this whole conversation going on, like, how is this going together? Like USM is very like this, you know, like geriatric and rigid and play like simplified. It's not simple, but, you know, it's decluttered like so. 00:26:35:09 - 00:26:38:19 Speaker 1 It's designed it's actually beautiful. Beautiful design. 00:26:38:24 - 00:26:57:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No it's perfect. But you know like an I was also commissioned to do space design. My bubble is also very decluttered. So they go together. It's very there's not a million of patterns or something. It's very clear that's the gesture and it functions and it's very intelligent. And yeah, there's a lot of longevity in it. 00:26:57:13 - 00:27:19:01 Speaker 2 And for me that was as a space person too. Growing up with the USM also was something very strong because USMs are handled with so much care too going through generations. You know, they they live in context like we have trends of interiors and they're still there and they're always fitting. They're going from my parents to me to my I don't know, somebody else later. 00:27:19:05 - 00:27:40:21 Speaker 2 You know, like there's it's adapting and context. And for me this ball joint or like something very organic like my bubble two is also like the reality fluid. It's round. It needs to deform through the time like very conceptually. And then the, the whole construction is holding this and it gives us stability which we need to. So it's nothing just never just one or the other. 00:27:40:21 - 00:28:03:10 Speaker 2 It's always a circle. And you know, like something that frames it. So this was for me conceptually very, very interesting. Then we went all in Snohetta came to it, yeah. We were in talks and they, they took on like the charge to make this holding space with us. USM and I pressed my breathing through it, huge ball joint in it. 00:28:03:12 - 00:28:28:11 Speaker 2 And yeah, we had all these discussions about like the algorithms that I said 100 million times, like how flat everything is, how yeah. And everything is kind of perfect also with the US. But, you know, it's a real construction that comes with wisdom. It comes with a lot of research, it comes from history. And I think all these things are also very important to to take on. 00:28:28:11 - 00:28:54:00 Speaker 2 It's very reliable. And it's a and then the bubble as a grounding thing is like this place for rebirth, like for grounding. And then whether that's just a thought you have like something new or maybe you have a little bit more energy after that and you go out or you connect differently with people, you're maybe a little bit more slowed down and see things a bit different. 00:28:54:02 - 00:29:14:09 Speaker 2 And I think and it's just holding space and yeah. And then and with the discernment again, I think once you have this moment and you were actually in there and not just looking at pictures, you really have to go and you hopefully can can see the reality a bit different again, whatever that is and how long it takes. 00:29:14:09 - 00:29:19:11 Speaker 2 I don't know if or last not take. Yeah, how long it takes and how long it lasts. 00:29:19:11 - 00:29:38:01 Speaker 1 I love that. Well let's, let's that leads us very naturally to the last question, because maybe someone's going to have to stay in there for a long time, because the last question is always, what's your greatest hope for the future of what's real? And let's call it 25 years. So like right around 2050. 00:29:38:03 - 00:29:47:02 Speaker 2 I hope for more collective real ness of like, you know, that we have I hope 25 years is also very long. I have to say. 00:29:47:04 - 00:29:48:23 Speaker 1 And it goes, but it goes like this somehow. 00:29:48:23 - 00:30:11:17 Speaker 2 Weird, I know, but I'm not thinking that for now. But for like maybe five years. I hope that I have a much, much more. Many more bubbles like that are in very different places that are all not good for our nervous system, but where we actually can bring people in and have more of this, like check ins on reality or on our mostly first. 00:30:11:19 - 00:30:21:10 Speaker 2 All right. Yeah, I think we I hope we find tools for that through design and art and love and community because people feel it actually does something. 00:30:22:00 - 00:30:26:15 Speaker 2 Positive. Yeah, that's a good question. 00:30:26:17 - 00:30:38:12 Speaker 1 but it's a beautiful answer. Annabelle Schneider, thank you so, so much for joining us on Future of XYZ on a very, very, broad, far ranging topic that you covered beautifully. 00:30:38:14 - 00:30:41:17 Speaker 2 Thank you so much. Thank you. 00:30:41:19 - 00:31:10:00 Speaker 1 for everyone watching. You can listen anywhere. You get your favorite podcasts. For anyone listening, you can watch on, YouTube. I would highly recommend watching this one because you can see some of Annabelle's bubble action behind her. please follow us both. iF Design, our presenting sponsor, as well as Future of XYZ on LinkedIn and Instagram, and we will look forward to seeing you again in two weeks time. 00:31:10:00 - 00:31:12:00 Speaker 1 Annabelle, thank you so much. 00:31:12:02 - 00:31:16:00 Speaker 2 Thank you Lisa, thank you.