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The Hoff Knows Socialism (Pt 1) · Conversations With the Hoff

• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: Socialism part one.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Part one.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: So hang on to your hats or your babushkas or whatever the socialists may wear.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we're gonna talk about that uh new caucus within the uh Democrat Party called uh the Democrat Socialists of America.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even think it's a caucus.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's just the DSA trying to take over a uh uh party that already has ballot access.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and a party that already has endorsed uh the progressive movement, uh already adopted many uh socialist policies, and they're doing quite well.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Matter of fact, uh they're they're winning the DSA, or I'm gonna call them DSA from now on.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're winning more and more elections at the local level and at the congressional level.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Primary elections.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Primary elections.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: But very few, very few of the actual elections unless they are in a deeply, deeply urban area.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: But they have a message that the American people seem to be buying for some strange reason.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I I I honestly don't think the American people are buying it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's uh I think again, I think it's a just a voting minority.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say a voting minority, it's when they have low turner uh low turner voting turnout.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And uh in our state, in our recent extremely important senatorial election, we had nine percent of the voters turning out for that election.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we have low voter turnout.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: We have low information voters that go to the poll, polls, and make decisions for all of us.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: That that is somewhat worrisome to me.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that would accept it that would make sense of why uh the Republicans had Ms.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Graham as their nominee.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, I wasn't gonna mention any names, but no, I did.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I did because I'm uh I I don't care about uh offending anybody because um I have been going toe-to-toe with good friends and people locally that have this whole, oh, let's get together and unite kind of thing.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean it's just like it's like listening listening to my Republican friends turn into Democrat light.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: So so we digress.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, what was that I was gonna talk about?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm still gonna offend all your friends, friends off that yeah, vote red or you're dead and vote blue or no matter who.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I the you herdsman, you heard me right, you people, you sheeple out there.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Back to today's program.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now, who are these people?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Who are these uh democratic socialists of America?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let's look at their platform.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: They have a uh a four-part platform, and uh the first part, I call it Pillar One, promises a world where government guarantees everything.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: A 32-hour work week with full pay, universal health care, free college, free housing, and Green New Deal.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic, you know, I'm gonna save the planet.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Pillar two expands this global uh vision, calling for an anti-imperialist foreign policy rooted in the international labor solidarity.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's always uh uh a term they use, solidarity.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the people who who've never labored a day in their life have a great idea for solidarity for those who do.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh next uh episode we'll talk about pillar three, which goes even further, proposing to restructure or eliminate the Senate, abolish ICE, change how judges and executives are selected, and even move towards a new constitution for the United States.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: So these aren't minor reforms, these are uh direct attempts to reshape the institution that limits government power.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now the key there is limit government power.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: They want more government power.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: They don't like the checks and balances and all that stuff that we have currently built into our I think they should add a fifth pillar.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: They should have a what?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: Fifth pillar.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: All the all the DSA members will have a free one-way uh helicopter ride.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's not bring Hans Hermann Hoppe into the conversation here.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: You caught you caught my reference right away.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now the last pillar that we're gonna talk about at the next episode is the economic heart of the platform.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna have aggressive wealth taxes, they're gonna have public ownership of major corporations, democratize workplaces, whatever that means, make sure that everybody has a living minimum wage.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Ugh.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, the uh platform is a vision of communism, of an economy not run by markets, but by political committees, by political czars, by the bureaucrats.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: By rich people.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so yeah, they're that's what they are.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like the mandamis of the world that have billions.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're gonna critique the first two pillars.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, with uh tripping I being libertarians, that critique is obviously gonna be from the libertarian perspective.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I am a staunch, staunch anti-Marxist, and you can't tell.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm sure I'm covering that up very well.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we're about to begin.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: So pull up a chair, sit back, and enjoy this episode of Conversations with the Hawks.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Woohoo! Okay.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Pillar one.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna create a thriving working class community.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: But you and I we're working class, you know.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, that sounds pretty good.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, I I can't I I'm trying to remember and imagine any any socialist organization that has anything thriving within it for any of the classes.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's about time somebody stood up for the working class, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean Yeah, yeah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Let let the people who don't work that are uh a bunch of elitists be the ones that represent the working class and tell the working class to shut up and get in line.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I worked my dairy air off until age 72, and now they're promising a 32-hour work week with full pay and benefits.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Where were they when I was 15 years old?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Working two jobs and going to school and going to college and working two jobs.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Where were they?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: They were in the rice rice fields uh fighting for the North Vietnamese.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: So so basically, from a libertarian perspective, when you're gonna mandate how much to pay people, how long they should work, this is not an uh a society that that's uh that uh respects voluntary exchange.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, these are mandated from the government.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also trying to limit those that have drive.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Indubitably.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: We believe that employers and employees should negotiate hours and pay.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Forcing full pay for fewer hours is a government-imposed price control.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, don't we negotiate our pay anyway?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't pay me enough, I'm not gonna work for you.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's called the free market.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: You just move on to another job.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or you go back to school, increase your skills, and then get a better job.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there are choices, but under the socialist uh method, there would be no choices.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Of course not.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: You do it or else.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Off to the gulag with you.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: Get in line, working class.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, also, we also um value productivity.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: We value skills.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if the government comes down and mandates pay and work week length, so much for that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: Meritocracy.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what's going to happen to productivity?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: So there's going to be no link between productivity and pay.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's correct.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: What's going to happen to the quality of that burger you order or the car you buy?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's all right.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's not going to be any beef or any vehicles available anyway.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can have the the what the lotto or whatever it's called, the the lottie or whatever it was in Germany.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: There'll be a one-year wait.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you can have any color you want as long as it's black.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now also this these type of mandates, they don't hurt the large corporations.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because they can absorb the cost.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: What it really hurts is the local entrepreneur, the local small business person.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So what you're going to do is you're going to decrease the number of small businesses throughout America.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And right now, they're the driving economic force of our country, small business.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, comrade, that's because uh it's harder to control a lot of individuals.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's easier to control one big entity.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so if uh mandating the work we can pay is not enough, they're also gonna mandate universal free government-run health care.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so they're gonna at gunpoint force people to um doctors, nurses, and so on to work for lower pay.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, the the the key word here though is free.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: What somebody once says there's no such thing as a free lunch.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: So when the government says free, what it really means is you and I, the working stiff paying it for someone else.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you and I, the working stiff, are gonna be subjected to higher taxes.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be paying for it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: The government's gonna take our money, our hard-earned money, and basically give it to somebody else.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's exactly what it means.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna be you're gonna own nothing and be happier.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: That that yeah, yeah.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hillary Clinton Clinton even uh endorses that, I believe.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it it takes a village, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I mean what's good for the village is what's important, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not what's good for me.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: A village of idiots.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so anyway, the this type of um government-run monopoly, it reduces innovation.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: In our free somewhat free market medical environment, we have lots of innov we have innovative technology, new medical devices coming up all the time.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: New services and new treatments for cancer and stuff.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's new pharmacies, pharmaceuticals, uh including hemp, uh, come up all the time.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, under these mandates, a government-run system, innovation's gonna suffer tremendously.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: There probably won't be any innovation.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna be subjected to long waiting times to go to the doctor or to go to the hospital.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: And there'll be rationing.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now, think about the UK and Canada.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: They have socialized medicine.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say you have uh a pain in your side.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: This could be maybe your kidney is failing or something.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you looking at me when you say pain in my side?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Am I that bad?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Comrade glorious leader.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're never a pain in our side.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, but think of the UK.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a um a medical issue in the in the UK, you call a doctor and they say, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna schedule you for an appointment.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh this is uh January.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: How does June 3rd sound?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, you go to Canada and they say, well, either June 3rd or assisted suicide.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna get into that.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, you're not.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Matter of fact, uh most Canadians, if they're really sick, they don't want to wait a year to go see a doctor.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, they don't want to wait uh nine months to get an MRI.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So what they do, they they drive down to Cleveland and go to an American hospital where they can get 3D right away.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if you're a boot to have some uh problems with waiting there, you should just go ahead and kill yourself.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now you talked about uh suicide.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: The Canadians realize that their health care system really sucks.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, really, really, really, really sucks.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the government has a solution to that.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's still better than England's, but yeah.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got uh a really bad case of cancer, you really need to get it treated, but unfortunately, the their health care system, you're not gonna be able to see a doctor for a year.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna be able to get to start getting treated for two years.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So the Canadian government has developed a program called MAID.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Medical Assistance in Dying.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, you don't have to wait that long.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you're so impatient, right.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: We have the solution.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna help you die.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: That saves the Canadian government money and it it pains you uh uh saves you a lot of grief and pain.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it it will, you know, distribute uh property and everything else, distribute wealth, yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Helps in redistribution.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so obviously we we believe in choice, freedom of choice, and government-mandated health care totally destroys freedom of choice.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's all kinds of alternatives to even our own healthcare systems today.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: We we even had a episode of conversation with the Hoff called Medical Freedom, where we talked about a lot of those choices.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, goodbye choice under government health care.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we we experienced just a little bit of that when Obama uh took away our good health care.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you'll be able to have your doctor no matter what, you know, it'll be cheaper, and you'll be able to have your doctor.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Wrong.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, also the under uh this uh platform, under the first part of the platform, free public education through college.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And you have a student debt, well, we're gonna cancel all that.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: What's wrong with that?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Here again, it's free, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, just as long as they make those idiot uh professors work for free, I'm all for it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, that probably won't happen.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna get paid.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And they're gonna get paid for teaching things that might be totally irrelevant to what society really needs.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: We need more people who have skills in underwater basket weaving.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Indubitably.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Also, they got the word free in there again.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Again, our taxes are gonna go up to pay for the education of people who are not our children, not our relatives, just strangers.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna steal from us to give to other people to pay for their education.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, when we fall short of money, we just print more.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's worked great, hasn't it?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's yeah, because inflation comes from the greed of uh corporations.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't come from the uh devaluing of money.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And even when uh the government cancels student debt, that's really kind of unfair for those students that actually had to pay for the college, that worked two jobs and they paid for it all.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: These are the people that that that got the debt, now they're on the gravy train, you're gonna cancel it.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's not that's okay.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Those are just older people.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: And older people had it better than than the younger people coming after them.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, where I'm from, that that just ain't right.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: You older person.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you boomer, you so uh also uh if you remove price, that takes away an incentive to improve education.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: If there's no cost, why should the colleges improve?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they aren't gonna be able to.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's not gonna be any companies to hire them anyway when they get out, so it doesn't it's a just a wash.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh government-funded education also crowds out the alternatives.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Just like in medicine, yeah, the alternatives are gonna go away.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they'll they'll require everybody even to sweep a floor to have a certificate.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, we we we need plumbers today and and carpenters and people like that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: We need skilled people today with trades.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of those people are gonna say, well, why should I go to trade school now?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: I can go to college for free.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and then know that they're not gonna have any money when they get out, but yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Or a job, I should say.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Also, now one thing about the Democratic Socialists of America, they realize that housing is a basic human right.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right out of the UN Declaration of Human Rights.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: So are cell phones.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: You have a right to education, to housing, to whatever it is you need in life.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Communication is a basic human right.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna talk about rent control.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what happens in a rent control environment?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell you the number number one thing that happens is rental units stop being built.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or maintained.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or maintained, right.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Why should somebody invest in rental property when the government's gonna set the prices and and you're you're gonna put all this money in it and you're not gonna get the return that you thought you were gonna get.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you're stifling the entrepreneur, and when you do that, you're gonna decrease the supply.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well the low IQ socialists in their minds think that when these become uh unrentable or not rented, that they're going to be able to come in and grab those properties because they're not being used, and then take people's money and fix them up.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the delusion is that they cannot they will find out that they're not able to maintain them either.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it falls into disrepair, and then they try to, again, the circul the circle keeps going over and over where uh fewer and fewer people get housed in any type of quality.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: One of the basic tenets of libertarian philosophy is ownership of property.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: You own you own your property, you own it, nobody else.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Which which also creates uh the domestic or or I I should say uh responsibility that is uh close to or I'm losing the my my words again, but uh approximate.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's what approximate responsibility.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And along with ownership comes responsibility.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Look at the housing projects in New York and or uh Chicago.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: What happens to those public housing projects over the years?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the tenants, they don't own it.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what what incentive do they have to maintain it, to keep it up?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: After a you a few years, those areas become crime infested and rat infested.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna their policy is really helping the working man.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna allow you, we're gonna have e equity.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody will live in a crime-infested, rat infested.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody will be equally miserable.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Indubitably.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's her uh that's her take on uh your basic human right uh to have housing.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Also, remember uh by uh Obama's Green New Deal?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: I Cylind Celindron and business successes.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they're gonna reinvent the Green New Deal, and they're gonna have a federal jobs guarantee, and they're gonna have public energy ownership.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Therefore, we'll have no energy.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's what that's what I hear from all this.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Here again, they like to use the word public.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Public sounds pretty good, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: It it's kind of a comfortable word.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you and I actually get to participate in that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's part of the public.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it was a spelling error.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: It was actually pubic.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, what it really is is government.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Government-owned util utilities.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Energy.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's not people-owned, it's uh it's uh entity-owned.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I really get upset when they call it the people's.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the peoples, it's the entity.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: It they take the humans and the individuals out of it.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, one of the uh biggest drawbacks here is that if you don't have a job, the government's gonna guarantee you a federal job.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of like the civil service we have today, you know.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, look at the uh productivity of the post office.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: How long did it take Elon Musk Musk to go into the federal bureaucracy and identify millions and millions and millions of dollars of fraud, waste, and abuse?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well the DSA wants to enlarge that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: They want to have more bureaucrats.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I mean, and look at Elon Musk, even exploited the fact that our own uh uh national space agency became bogged down in bureaucracy.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: That SpaceX and Another one blue or whatever that's called.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: They have leveraged the fact that that they don't have that type of bureaucracy.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: And all the fears that uh because they don't have all this oversight, it would be unsafe and it would be a failure has been proven wrong.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the private, uh, the free market can provide space exploration at lower costs, at greater uh technical innovations.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh greater safety.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Greater safety, the whole the whole bit.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: A much higher success rate.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's talk about this uh public ownership of the energy.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um so basically, if you want to know what government ownership or even public-private partnerships for energy, all you have to do is look at VC Summers nuclear project in uh South Carolina.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: That government-run nuclear project cost the taxpayers of South Carolina eventually, when it failed, about$583 million.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, the total cost probably close is closer to a billion dollars overall.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: I I would think so, yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: So when you have a public ownership, excuse me, government ownership of energy, it reduces competition, and nine times out of ten results in failure.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I I mentioned this, what was it called?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Cylindron or something like that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Cylindron.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: That big uh company that made uh solar panels and stuff like that.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: In uh Delaware.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: The government gave uh over$500 million to that company in loans.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And a few years later, it went bankrupt.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: But not the people who owned it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they they actually got some compensation.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: I read about that.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think they actually did quite well, yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, the the the entity that takes it in the short, whenever government owns utilities or energy or whatever, is a taxpayer.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: The taxpayer ends up paying for for this type of uh endeavor.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Also, we're talking not just a little bit of money that the government wants to spend on energy.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're talking about billions and billions of dollars that that's gonna go towards green energy.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what happens when the government spends money?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was it's one of our recent candidates talks about the greatest existential threat to America today is the national debt.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: The DSA platform is definitely gonna drive up the national debt.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Past 40 trillion.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're we're 40 trillion now.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna go a lot higher if these uh DSA people actually start winning elections and taking control of government.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I want our GOP Republican friends to understand that it is now raised up.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Raised up to 40 trillion.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: What the hell are you doing, my Republican friends?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I think uh my last episode I pissed off all my libertarian friends.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's go after the Republicans now.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're uh equal opportunity.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now the the the platform also is going to institute long-term abolition of the police and of prisons.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: So if somebody is breaking into your house with a gun or whatever, just call the local social worker.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, they're you so basically uh the we you and I can see that this is not gonna uh ensure the safety of the American public.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now, obviously there should be civilian oversight of the police.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there has to be reforms, you know, they should not be uh what the kind of immunity do immunity do they have?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that that should go away.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: They they they have to be held accountable for their actions.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely they're there to serve and protect.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, don't sometimes they get a little bit overzealous and infringe on the uh inalienable inalienable rights of of citizens.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: And uh public safety becomes decentralized without clear accountability.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: We argue that private security or community systems cannot fully replace rule of law institutions.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, we're for private security systems, but we also believe that a city should also have a police force.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, here's a here's one that really kind of goes over real well with me.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: The DSA platform also calls for reparations and major redistribution programs.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: This violates a um a libertarian principle.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's called collective guilt, and that uh violates individual rights.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: We should not be held responsible for historical actions centuries ago that we did not commit.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: But yet the government wants us to pay for that.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: That that's not that ain't right.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, not at all.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: And basically, as it's another form of coercive taxation.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: There are better alternatives.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: If the government really feels that certain minorities really need a little bit of help, there are other ways of doing that.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh implementing school choice.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Get them out of the public schools.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: The public schools in some of these poor neighborhoods are a disaster.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: They don't even teach them basic basic reading, writing, and arithmetic.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: No, you're right.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: So make it easier for them to go into alternative schools, charter schools, yeah, private schools.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Also, um make it easier for uh certain people to get into apprenticeship.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or or different uh different types of apprenticeship programs.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but then then they're not paid for what they're worth.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm sorry, that was my socialist heart breaking.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: So basically the first p pillar of the DSA platform does one thing.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: It expands state control over work, health care, education, housing, energy, and justice.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Libertarians agree that prosperity emerges from voluntary exchange, competition, and decentralized decision making, not centralized planning.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Central planning has never worked.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a little bit of time left.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna talk shortly about uh the second pillar, which is a good good thing it's it's shorter, shorter than the than the first one.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: And uh here it talks about foreign policy.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now, believe it or not, uh we libertarians actually agree with certain forms of the DSA's policy on uh on foreign policy.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, unfortunately, theirs is not really reduction, it's selection.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we're I want to talk about that.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's a difference.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um the DSA opposes U.S.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: militarism, foreign intervention foreign interventions, and corporate-driven uh international policy.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: We libertarians do oppose militarism and interventionism.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: We we oppose that.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: However, the DSA replaces military intervention with ideological intervention.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Which with guns.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the DSA wants to influence and reshape other nations through labor activism with guns, climate mandates, with guns, and political pressure instead of military force with threat of guns.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: With imaginary guns.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we can threat of guns, yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: You're right, with the threat of guns, right?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because we can see we can see how this has worked uh for Venezuela, um, Cuba, and uh North Korea, because they don't threaten people with bombs, guns, and and their military going into other foreign nations.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wait.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: They do.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: So this is still interventionism.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: They're still intervening in the affairs of so-called sovereign nations.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what they're doing is they're saying we want to do the same thing that's currently going on, except we want to change who our enemies are, redefine who the enemies are gonna be and where we're gonna point the guns.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: From a libertarian perspective, non-intervention means neutrality, not activism.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: We should avoid all attempts to uh engineer outcomes abroad.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: Engineer, coerce, influence, blah, blah, blah.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the the DSA wants to apply social engineering to foreign countries.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that's uh that's one of the primary differences.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: They support global labor rights, criminal justice reform, and democratic movements abroad.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I said, this is still interventionism, just with different goals.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Government-driven labor activism abroad is coercive.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: Climate justice justice activism abroad is also coercive.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the UN is great about that.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: That that again is another organization that needs to be wiped off the planet.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the DSA wants to support democratic movements abroad.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now we realize that democratic movements can include groups that seek socialist or authoritarian authoritarian outcomes.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Some of these democratic movements end up to be killing machines by the leaders.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: One thing everybody should realize democracy does not equal liberty.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Democracy is rule by the majority.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Mob rule.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: The individual can suffer under democracy because the the the the individual is uh is a a minor player in in democracy.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's like Stalin pointed out, uh we we uh the Communist Party will always be the ruling party because we're a democracy and we will make sure that um anyone else who opposes us dies.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: So there you go.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna get into that uh my my second uh thing there.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: So so basically you have uh one form of coercion, one form of interventionism versus our our current military interventionism.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: And under the DSA, again they're using economic pressure, diplomatic activism, international regulatory schemes, global liberal organizing, climate mandates, and political alignment with foreign movements.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is what we call soft interventionism.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I I cannot come up with a socialist communist country, Marxist country, that has done anything, quote, soft.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so basically, under the uh DSA's platform, the foreign policy is just a different type of form of imperialism.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it it's no different from their their foreign policy, it is really no different than our current foreign policy.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: It is just changing the definition of who your your rival is.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna get rid of imperialism and reinstate imperialism.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Basically that that's what they're doing.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a brief discussion of the first two pillars of the DSA platform.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing should become remarkably clear.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Every proposal, every reform, every promise rests on a single assumption that government can engineer prosperity better than free people or free markets.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: And from a libertarian perspective, that's a fundamental flaw.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: I talked about uh Pillar One.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: It paints a picture of a world where the state guarantees shorter work weeks, free health care, free college, public housing, and a government-run energy system.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: But all of these guarantees are backed by force.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's backed by force than their mandates.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: They replace voluntary exchange with political control, and they shift the cost of every free benefit onto taxpayers, small businesses, and future generations.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Prosperity built on compulsion isn't prosperity, it's dependency.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Pillar two claims to reject militarism, but it replaces military intervention with ideological intervention.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Labor activism activism abroad, climate pressure, political involvement in foreign movements.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Libertarians argue that true non-intervention requires new neutrality, not swapping bombs for bureaucracy.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Foreign policy should defend Americans, not attempt to reshape the world through new forms of political influence.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: So what in wrapping it up, I like the uh lip uh Reason magazine episodes on on YouTube called What Could Oh, What Could Go Wrong?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: What could possibly go wrong?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Unintended consequences is what you're thinking of.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna talk more about that during the next episode.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: So as we close today's episode, remember this the debate about democratic socialism versus the America envisioned by our founding father isn't just about policy.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's about who gets to run your life the state or you.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: The next episode of Conversations with the Hoff will continue this discussion on the remaining two pillars of the Democratic Socialist of America platform: working class democracy and economic transformation and redistribution.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: And now a word from our comrade glorious leader and executive producer of Liberty Crack Media, Tripp Detmering.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Steve.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: This has been another wonderful conversations with the Hoff.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh stay tuned next week for part two of this series on the DSA.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: And if you did want to find out more about those uh Reason magazine um snippets that are called Unintended Consequences, tune in to LibertyCrackradio.com and we uh play those about three to four of them on the hour.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, and if you don't do that, just go ahead to Reason TV, reason.tv or reason.com and look up all those wonderful things that are put out.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they also have some funny, funny uh videos that are put out by um or Remy, who's doing music, or you've got uh uh Heaton, who does these really hilarious uh uh mocking uh news type of uh of comedy uh things that go out there.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but if you want other material or other podcasts, go to whippycrackmedia.com.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: And uh again, come in next week for more conversations with a question.