Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / LISTEN: JEFFREY EPSTEIN PAL PRINCE ANDREW DENIES REPEATED UNDERAGE SEX WITH U.S. GIRL. IS HE LYING?

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LISTEN: JEFFREY EPSTEIN PAL PRINCE ANDREW DENIES REPEATED UNDERAGE SEX WITH U.S. GIRL. IS HE LYING? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: Do you have a daughter. I do. She just turned
0:07
Speaker 1: twelve along with her twin my son John David. Can
0:10
Speaker 1: you imagine just a few short years after that your
0:14
Speaker 1: daughter is sex trafficked? Because I lay awake at night
0:20
Speaker 1: thinking about crying victims that we speak to, that we cover,
0:24
Speaker 1: that we try to find and try to help. And
0:28
Speaker 1: this drama unfolding right now, going all the way to
0:33
Speaker 1: the highest echelons of our world society, all the way
0:37
Speaker 1: to Prince Andrew in Great Britain, is making me ill
0:43
Speaker 1: sick to my stomach. His denials and his recent BBC
0:48
Speaker 1: interview ever knowing one of the underage victims, it's so
0:53
Speaker 1: obvious he's lying. It's all connected to the billionaire pedophile
0:59
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Eppstein mysteriously found dead in his cell. But what
1:05
Speaker 1: is the truth? Join us as we listen to Prince
1:10
Speaker 1: Andrew trying to squirm his way out of underage sex
1:15
Speaker 1: allegations of ps. Under Age sex is a euphemism, that's
1:20
Speaker 1: putting perfume on the pig. It's statutory rape. This is
1:24
Speaker 1: crime stories. I Nancy Grace, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
1:36
Speaker 1: You don't remember meeting hunt. The Prince categorically denying he
1:41
Speaker 1: ever had sex with Eufrey. Asked for this now infamous
1:44
Speaker 1: picture of the two together, the Prince says he doesn't
1:47
Speaker 1: remember it being taken, and says it could be a fake.
1:52
Speaker 1: From the investigations that we've done, you can't prove whether
1:56
Speaker 1: or not that photograph is faked or not because it
2:00
Speaker 1: is a photograph of a photograph of a photograph, so
2:03
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to be able to prove it. But
2:09
Speaker 1: I don't remember that photograph ever being taken. Andrew claims
2:12
Speaker 1: that on the date of one of their alleged encounters,
2:15
Speaker 1: he was with his daughter. On that particular day, I
2:19
Speaker 1: was at home. I was with the children. I'd taken
2:23
Speaker 1: Batrice to a Pizza Express in working for a party.
2:29
Speaker 1: Why would you remember that so specifically? Why would you
2:31
Speaker 1: remember a pizza Express birthday and being at home because
2:35
Speaker 1: going to Pizza Express in Woking is an unusual thing
2:39
Speaker 1: for me to do. Well, I'm sure the Pizza Express
2:41
Speaker 1: in Woking isn't very happy about that. I mean, Asy grays,
2:45
Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us.
2:47
Speaker 1: Well you know what, oh what a tangled web we
2:50
Speaker 1: weave when first we practice to deceive. I can't take
2:54
Speaker 1: credit for that. That's from Shakespeare. Sounds to me like
2:58
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew is spinning quite the tangled web. But it's
3:04
Speaker 1: a very very complicated scenario, and it ends with allegations
3:10
Speaker 1: of underage sex. You know what that is, statutory rape.
3:15
Speaker 1: It all goes back to Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein, the multi
3:20
Speaker 1: millionaire now dead, many believe killed behind bars because he
3:26
Speaker 1: could name so many high powered and influential men that
3:30
Speaker 1: he hooked up with teen girls. Will we ever know
3:35
Speaker 1: the truth? I've got a funny feeling we will. Thanks
3:39
Speaker 1: for being with us again. This is Nancy Grace's Crime Stories.
3:42
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew speaks in a toe curling interview, probably now
3:48
Speaker 1: wishing he hadn't done it with me. An all star
3:51
Speaker 1: lineup to try to determine the truth first of all.
3:54
Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, twenty two years homicide,
3:59
Speaker 1: author of Seattle's Forgotten serial killer, Gary Jane Grant, Doctor
4:05
Speaker 1: Karen Start, renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You
4:09
Speaker 1: can find her at Karen Stark dot com. Joseph Scott Morgan,
4:12
Speaker 1: Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University and author of Blood beneath
4:17
Speaker 1: my feet. But right now to Crime online dot Com
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Levi, Paige Levi, let's just start at the beginning.
4:28
Speaker 1: I know Prince Andrew gave this horrible, horrible interview. I
4:32
Speaker 1: don't know who told him to do that. Don't they
4:35
Speaker 1: know anything about the Fifth Amendment? Why talk if you
4:38
Speaker 1: don't have to. I always had a phrase, and the
4:42
Speaker 1: rest of you will laugh because you've all been in
4:44
Speaker 1: and out of the trials. Better to remain silent and
4:50
Speaker 1: let the jury think you're an ass, then speak and
4:55
Speaker 1: confirm their suspicions. He should have just stayed shut up.
5:00
Speaker 1: This thing goes all the way by years and years
5:02
Speaker 1: and years. Jeffrey Epstein, multi millionaire befriending rich and powerful
5:10
Speaker 1: individuals such as Bill Clinton Donald Trump. This is not political.
5:15
Speaker 1: He befriended every man that basically wanted to have sex. Okay,
5:20
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying Clinton or Trump did anything wrong.
5:24
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that he trafficked young girls in and
5:29
Speaker 1: out of where wealthy men were. This includes a photo
5:35
Speaker 1: of Prince Andrew with a teen girl at a party
5:39
Speaker 1: where people are drinking and carousing. That in itself is
5:43
Speaker 1: a problem. Then Epstein is caught. Epstein quote goes to jail.
5:49
Speaker 1: What does that mean in Florida? That he goes in
5:52
Speaker 1: and out of the jail at will and goes to
5:54
Speaker 1: his office to hook up with young girls. It's allowed
5:57
Speaker 1: in Florida. Finally the FETs jump in, then he ends
6:02
Speaker 1: up dead behind bars. Now in the aftermath, all these
6:06
Speaker 1: powerful men are afraid. They're shaking in their boots because
6:10
Speaker 1: in the last hours we learn that many of them
6:14
Speaker 1: are named in explosive pages of new evidence, three thousand
6:19
Speaker 1: pages detailing further allegations against Epstein, the pedophile and all
6:26
Speaker 1: of his friends. Okay, Levi page. With that in the background,
6:30
Speaker 1: let's go up to date with Andrew. Why the interview, Well, Nancy,
6:36
Speaker 1: people were casting suspicions around him because of his friendship
6:41
Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein. He has stayed over night at Jeffrey
6:46
Speaker 1: Epstein's residence in the Caribbean in Manhattan overseas, he is
6:53
Speaker 1: good friends with Joseline Maxwell, the alleged madam that got
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Speaker 1: these young women and directed them to have sex, basically
7:02
Speaker 1: setting them up. They are not young women. They are
7:05
Speaker 1: not young women. Levi, don't say that they under the
7:09
Speaker 1: law are miners. They are under the law. They are miners. Okay,
7:14
Speaker 1: they are not young women. They can't decide if they
7:16
Speaker 1: could be in a sex relationship with a grown man.
7:19
Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, You're corrected, Okay, go ahead. Underage girls
7:25
Speaker 1: was a woman, a young girl. She was seventeen at
7:29
Speaker 1: the time, a teenager, Virginia Jeffrey, and she claims that
7:34
Speaker 1: she was raped multiple times by Prince Andrew, one in
7:38
Speaker 1: an orgy setting, another and London at Jessline Maxwell's residence.
7:45
Speaker 1: She claims that in one counter that he was sweating
7:50
Speaker 1: profusely all over her. And because of all of these accusations,
7:54
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew has said, I need to get out in
7:57
Speaker 1: the forefront of this. I need to clear my name. Well,
8:02
Speaker 1: it's a little light for that. He's a day light
8:04
Speaker 1: and a dollar short. You know what I get it.
8:07
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to not only
8:11
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew, but he has accuser the then teen girl,
8:15
Speaker 1: Virginia Roberts Jeffrey. I want to start by saying, it's
8:20
Speaker 1: not how Jeffrey died, but it's how he lived. And
8:24
Speaker 1: we need to get to the bottom of everybody who
8:27
Speaker 1: was involved at that starting with Gilan Maxwell and going
8:30
Speaker 1: along the lines there. Um, I was recruited at a
8:34
Speaker 1: very young age from mile ago and entrapped in a
8:38
Speaker 1: world that I didn't understand, and I've been fighting that
8:41
Speaker 1: very world to this day and I won't stop fighting.
8:43
Speaker 1: I will never be silenced until these people are brought
8:46
Speaker 1: to justice. So thank you all very much. Appreciate it. Silence.
8:58
Speaker 1: He knows what he's done and he can attest to that.
9:01
Speaker 1: So in your review, he knows exactly what he's done,
9:06
Speaker 1: and I hope he comes clean about it. Thank you. Okay,
9:10
Speaker 1: let's listen to what Prince Andrew has to say to that.
9:13
Speaker 1: I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady, none whatsoever.
9:18
Speaker 1: You don't remember meeting her? She says she met you
9:22
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one. She dined with you, she
9:26
Speaker 1: danced with you, You bought her drinks. You were in
9:30
Speaker 1: Trump Nightclub in London, and she went on to have
9:34
Speaker 1: sex with you in a house in Belgravia belonging to
9:38
Speaker 1: Garline Maxwell. Didn't happen, Do you remember her? Okay, you're
9:44
Speaker 1: hearing Prince Andrew giving a voluntary interview to Cloyd Steiger,
9:52
Speaker 1: thirty six year Seattle PD twenty two years homicide and author.
9:57
Speaker 1: What do you make of Andrew's interview? First of all,
10:00
Speaker 1: it was brutal to watch. It was so obvious that
10:04
Speaker 1: he was deceptive. A couple of things stuck out to me.
10:08
Speaker 1: Regarding the photograph, he didn't say I wasn't in that photograph.
10:11
Speaker 1: He said, you can't prove one way or the other
10:15
Speaker 1: if I was in that program. Well, if you weren't
10:17
Speaker 1: in the photograph, you know you weren't the photograph. The
10:20
Speaker 1: second is when the interviewer, who did a great job
10:23
Speaker 1: by the way, asked him if she's lying. He's not
10:26
Speaker 1: in a position to say that. Come on, it's either
10:29
Speaker 1: I didn't do it, so yes, she's lying. If he's
10:31
Speaker 1: really innocent, you know, all the affirmative stuff we's going
10:34
Speaker 1: around those questions. What would you say to her if
10:36
Speaker 1: she's listening to this, I have nothing to say. An
10:39
Speaker 1: in some person would say why are you doing this
10:41
Speaker 1: to me? You know, something along those lines. But it's
10:43
Speaker 1: so it's painful to watch him wiggle and twists and
10:48
Speaker 1: you know, not make eye contact during a lot of
10:50
Speaker 1: his long statements. He looks to the left, away from
10:53
Speaker 1: the interviewer, and then only comes back on eye to
10:55
Speaker 1: eye at the end of the question or into the statement.
10:58
Speaker 1: So it was just brutal. It was. That's actually a
11:01
Speaker 1: great interview for people trying to learn how to interview
11:04
Speaker 1: with somebody, to watch and see who's being deceptive, and
11:08
Speaker 1: how to ask good questions, inching it forward one tiny
11:11
Speaker 1: piece at a time, and then have your make a
11:13
Speaker 1: statement and come back with some evidence opposite of what
11:18
Speaker 1: he's saying. It was just it was. It was a
11:21
Speaker 1: brutal by crime stories with me, it'sy Grace. Nobody can
11:37
Speaker 1: prove whether or not that that photograph has been doctored.
11:42
Speaker 1: But I don't recollect that photograph ever being taken, And
11:46
Speaker 1: you don't recollect having your hand round her waist in
11:51
Speaker 1: Girl and Maxwell's house on any occasion, even if it
11:54
Speaker 1: was a different Sorry, but if I as a member
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Speaker 1: of the royal family and I photograph taken, and I
12:01
Speaker 1: take very very few photographs, I am not one too.
12:06
Speaker 1: As it were, hug and public displays of affection are
12:11
Speaker 1: not something that I do. So that's the best explanation
12:18
Speaker 1: I can give you. And then, and I'm afraid to
12:20
Speaker 1: say that that I don't believe that photograph was taken
12:25
Speaker 1: in the way that has been suggested. Why would people
12:29
Speaker 1: not believe that you were there? I'm sorry, why would
12:34
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand. There's a photo inside Glenn
12:38
Speaker 1: Maxwell's house. Glenne herself is in the background. Why would
12:43
Speaker 1: people not believe that you were there with her that night? Um,
12:51
Speaker 1: they might well wish to believe it, But there's the
12:54
Speaker 1: photograph has taken upstairs, and I don't think I ever
12:57
Speaker 1: went upstairs in Glen's house. Wow. You know when you
13:04
Speaker 1: hear him speak, there are so many evasive maneuvers. I mean,
13:08
Speaker 1: as he Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for
13:10
Speaker 1: being with us. This is not let's get Prince Andrew.
13:15
Speaker 1: That's not what this is about. This is about what
13:17
Speaker 1: really happened and did he and other high powered, wealthy
13:23
Speaker 1: and influential men have sex with minors that were handed
13:29
Speaker 1: over to them like a pizza delivery by Jeffrey Epstein?
13:34
Speaker 1: And another thing, where is Gilene Maxwell? Why isn't she
13:38
Speaker 1: being questioned right now? Why are we having to figure
13:42
Speaker 1: this out? Why isn't she being brought in by the
13:46
Speaker 1: fads and questioned what? Just because Epstein got killed behind bars,
13:50
Speaker 1: the whole case is over oh oh no, no, no, no.
13:54
Speaker 1: If he was the devil, then she is Billzebub. According
13:58
Speaker 1: to these girls, According to them, she found them, she
14:03
Speaker 1: thought them out, she recruited them, She explained them to
14:07
Speaker 1: them what various men would want in bed, and they
14:12
Speaker 1: did it over and over and over. And if that's true,
14:16
Speaker 1: she needs to go to jail. Maybe she has the
14:20
Speaker 1: key to whether Andrew or others were involved with me.
14:25
Speaker 1: Chloyd Steiger, doctor Karen Stark, Joseph Scott Morgan and Leavi
14:29
Speaker 1: Page Karen Stark, psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. Karen,
14:34
Speaker 1: what do you make if it sounds to you like
14:36
Speaker 1: he's telling the truth, tell me if not, explain No, Nancy,
14:41
Speaker 1: he's not telling the truth. It's so clear that he's dissembling.
14:45
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just he's so evasive. He just doesn't
14:49
Speaker 1: come out even and say how could that be? There's
14:52
Speaker 1: no way I know that I'm not in that photograph.
14:56
Speaker 1: I don't know what they did, but that's not me. No,
14:58
Speaker 1: he says, I don't recall. He doesn't recall of a sudden,
15:01
Speaker 1: he can recall when he went for a pizza delivery
15:05
Speaker 1: or he went to had pizza with his children, but
15:08
Speaker 1: he can't recall when this that this photograph was actually taken.
15:13
Speaker 1: And if you look at some of the things that
15:16
Speaker 1: he says, you know you're looking at a narcissistic personality.
15:21
Speaker 1: He's staying at the house because it was convenient, he says,
15:26
Speaker 1: he's a member of the royal family. He has to
15:29
Speaker 1: stay at Jeffrey Epstein's house. It's convenient. That makes no sense.
15:34
Speaker 1: And then he says, well, his judgment was probably colored
15:39
Speaker 1: because he was too honorable. That's just the way it is.
15:44
Speaker 1: So it has nothing to do with, oh, you know,
15:47
Speaker 1: I made a mistake, because he's not supposed to admit
15:50
Speaker 1: that he made a mistake. He has to say he
15:53
Speaker 1: was just too honorable a person. Although I don't understand
15:56
Speaker 1: how that fits him. There. Take a listen to our
15:59
Speaker 1: friend at babyc Emily Maitlis with Prince Andrew. He was
16:02
Speaker 1: released in July. Within months by December of twenty ten,
16:07
Speaker 1: you went to stay with him at his New York mansion.
16:11
Speaker 1: Why why were you staying with a convicted sex offender? Right?
16:16
Speaker 1: I have always ever since this has happened, and since
16:20
Speaker 1: this has become as it were, a public knowledge that
16:22
Speaker 1: I was there, I've questioned myself as to why did
16:26
Speaker 1: I go, what was I doing and was it the
16:30
Speaker 1: right thing to do? Now? I went there with the
16:34
Speaker 1: sole purpose of saying to him that because he had
16:37
Speaker 1: been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together.
16:44
Speaker 1: And I had a number of people canceled me in
16:48
Speaker 1: both directions, either to go and see him or not
16:51
Speaker 1: to go and see him. And I took the judgment
16:54
Speaker 1: call that because this was serious and I felt that
17:02
Speaker 1: doing it over the telephone was the chickens way of
17:06
Speaker 1: doing it. Was that visit December of twenty ten, the
17:11
Speaker 1: only time you saw him after he was convicted? Did
17:15
Speaker 1: you see him or speak to him again? That ten?
17:19
Speaker 1: Was it? That was it? Because I went well, First
17:21
Speaker 1: of all, I wanted to make sure that if I
17:27
Speaker 1: was going to go and see him, I had to
17:29
Speaker 1: make sure that that that there was enough time between
17:33
Speaker 1: his release, because it wasn't something that I was going
17:37
Speaker 1: into in a hurry. But I had to go and
17:41
Speaker 1: see him. I had to go and see him. I
17:43
Speaker 1: had to stay with him and stay in the house.
17:45
Speaker 1: I could easily have gone and stayed somewhere else, but
17:48
Speaker 1: but sheer convenience of being able to get a hold
17:52
Speaker 1: of the man. Is was was? I mean he was?
17:54
Speaker 1: He was in and all over the place. So getting
17:57
Speaker 1: him in one place for a appears time to actually
18:01
Speaker 1: have a long enough conversation to say, look, these are
18:03
Speaker 1: the reasons why I'm not going to and that happened
18:07
Speaker 1: on the walk. I'm not buying it to you. Joseph
18:10
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan forensics expert. And yes, I know your expertise
18:14
Speaker 1: is forensics. You're a death investigator, but you prove cases,
18:18
Speaker 1: you go to crime scenes, and you talk to so
18:21
Speaker 1: many witnesses and have watched and taken part in so
18:24
Speaker 1: many trials. Just think about it. So you go and
18:28
Speaker 1: stay in a pedophile's mansion, so for an extended period
18:33
Speaker 1: of time, spending the night, several nights, so you can
18:36
Speaker 1: break the news to him that you're not going to
18:37
Speaker 1: stay there anymore. It sounds like a breakup. Why do
18:41
Speaker 1: you go out to dinner and go for a romantic
18:44
Speaker 1: weekend to say I'm breaking up? No, At most you
18:49
Speaker 1: might see the person in a public place at lunch
18:52
Speaker 1: and say, look it's not working out. It's over. It's me,
18:54
Speaker 1: not you. You don't go stay with them, You should
18:58
Speaker 1: just do a call or Pete's sake, he's the Prince
19:01
Speaker 1: of England. He can have one of his flunkey's do it.
19:05
Speaker 1: That is just not appropriate for him to be there anymore.
19:08
Speaker 1: So right there, that smells like a lie. Yeah, it
19:11
Speaker 1: does to me too, Nancy. And you know this visit
19:14
Speaker 1: that he had at Epstein's place in New York, it
19:19
Speaker 1: wasn't just an overnight. He was there multiple nights apparently.
19:24
Speaker 1: And you know, you're telling me that the prince, that
19:28
Speaker 1: a prince, a member of the royal family, can't get
19:31
Speaker 1: his hands on Epstein because he's moving about. So therefore,
19:35
Speaker 1: the Prince, who could be staying at the Plaza or
19:37
Speaker 1: any number of other places in New York, is going
19:40
Speaker 1: to choose to stay in this guy's place. He could
19:44
Speaker 1: have this guy brought to him. He could, you know,
19:46
Speaker 1: like you said, he could have one of his people
19:48
Speaker 1: reach out to him. He chose not to do that.
19:50
Speaker 1: He stayed there multiple nights during this quote unquote breakup.
19:54
Speaker 1: It stinks stinks badly. Crime stories with me. It'sy grace.
20:13
Speaker 1: She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating, and
20:18
Speaker 1: that she went on to have Possibly there's a slight
20:22
Speaker 1: problem with with with with the sweating because I have
20:29
Speaker 1: a peculiar medical condition, which is that I don't sweat,
20:34
Speaker 1: or I didn't sweat at the time, and that was wishing. Yes,
20:38
Speaker 1: I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered
20:43
Speaker 1: what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in
20:46
Speaker 1: the Falklands War when I was shot at, and I
20:50
Speaker 1: simply it was almost impossible for me to sweat. And
20:54
Speaker 1: it's only because I have done a number of things
20:58
Speaker 1: in the recent past that I'm starting to be able
21:00
Speaker 1: to do that again. So I'm afraid to say that
21:03
Speaker 1: that there's a medical condition that says that it didn't
21:06
Speaker 1: do it. You know what, This sounds like a whole
21:07
Speaker 1: bunch of hogwash to me, a medical condition that doesn't
21:10
Speaker 1: allow him to sweat, I mean again, Joseph Scott Morgan,
21:15
Speaker 1: forensics expert. After he said that, then all of these
21:20
Speaker 1: photos have been brought out and printed of him sweating
21:24
Speaker 1: up a storm at it looks like nightclubs or parties.
21:28
Speaker 1: And this whole thing about no PDA's public displays of affection.
21:32
Speaker 1: There's one of a woman licking his face. You know
21:35
Speaker 1: it just really, he just should I keep saying he
21:39
Speaker 1: should never have done this interview. But the fact is
21:41
Speaker 1: that everything he's saying is being disproven. And you know
21:45
Speaker 1: the law, Joe Scott, if this were in front of
21:48
Speaker 1: a jury, the judge would charge the jury that if
21:52
Speaker 1: you believe any witness has lied you, the jury that's
21:57
Speaker 1: us are entitled to discard any portion or all of
22:02
Speaker 1: the testimony. It's about credibility. And photos have already been
22:06
Speaker 1: brought out of him sweating. I mean, he's he's his
22:10
Speaker 1: hair is all wet. He's sweating so much. I mean
22:13
Speaker 1: that sells bogus. I got shot at I had a
22:16
Speaker 1: dose of adrenaline and I couldn't sweat for a period
22:19
Speaker 1: of time. But now I can. Oh, man, what I
22:21
Speaker 1: love to cross examine this guy. Yeah, a load of hogwash.
22:24
Speaker 1: A lot of those photos actually originated out of the
22:27
Speaker 1: South of France. He was on holiday multiple times down
22:31
Speaker 1: in on the Riviera, and so you know he's at
22:34
Speaker 1: these parties, he's at these clubs, he's got these young
22:37
Speaker 1: women hanging all over him. He's sweating like a hog. Uh.
22:40
Speaker 1: There is a condition. Gee, I haven't heard that in
22:42
Speaker 1: a long time. Oh, there's a condition that's called an hydrosis,
22:47
Speaker 1: and it's it is a real medical condition, but it's
22:49
Speaker 1: it's rare. Here's another one you haven't heard in a while.
22:52
Speaker 1: It's rare as hen's teeth. You don't you don't see
22:54
Speaker 1: it very often, and it is not you ever try
22:59
Speaker 1: to features. That is one scary thing. They all come
23:03
Speaker 1: rushing at you and start pecking. But I get it.
23:05
Speaker 1: In hydrosis, you have the inability to sweat normally. When
23:09
Speaker 1: you don't perspire, your body cannot cool itself and you overheat.
23:14
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can even be fatal. But Andrew says he
23:17
Speaker 1: had it around the time of the photo. But then
23:20
Speaker 1: I guess he got well, Karen start it just gets
23:25
Speaker 1: it gets the murkier and murkier. It's very very strange
23:30
Speaker 1: that he thought this was going to make any sense
23:32
Speaker 1: to give this interview, and that somehow people would listen
23:36
Speaker 1: to this and think that he was innocent, because if
23:39
Speaker 1: I think it was mentioned earlier, but I have to
23:42
Speaker 1: really agree if you look at his nonverbal behavior as well,
23:47
Speaker 1: he's just he can't make eye contact. And we all
23:51
Speaker 1: know you know when someone's not making eye contact that
23:54
Speaker 1: the first thing you think of is that they're not
23:57
Speaker 1: telling the truth. You can't make eye contact and he's
24:00
Speaker 1: not definitive. He doesn't say absolutely not. I get into that. Yeah,
24:05
Speaker 1: you know the fact that he keeps saying, especially about
24:08
Speaker 1: that picture. Decloyd Stiger, homicide detective and author. We have
24:13
Speaker 1: to weigh credibility all the time. And after you put
24:18
Speaker 1: three or four thousand witnesses on the stand like you
24:21
Speaker 1: and I have, you start picking up on who's lying
24:26
Speaker 1: and who's not lying. When you're confronted with a photo
24:30
Speaker 1: and instead of saying that's not me or I didn't
24:34
Speaker 1: do that, you say you can't prove it. Yeah, that's
24:37
Speaker 1: a big red flag for me. That is ridiculous. But
24:39
Speaker 1: one thing I want to add, he was certainly sweating
24:42
Speaker 1: during that interview, I guarantee you because he was so uncomfortable.
24:46
Speaker 1: But you're right, all these little I can't tell I
24:49
Speaker 1: don't remember. It may have been I've never one of
24:53
Speaker 1: the ones that I might have misunderstood. But he said
24:57
Speaker 1: that picture was taken upstairs. I've never been upstairs. That
25:00
Speaker 1: are out? Well, then, how to act and know the
25:02
Speaker 1: picture was taken upstairs? Right? Uh? And it just you
25:07
Speaker 1: could sit and write entire pages of the deceptions that
25:11
Speaker 1: this guy is showing in this interview. This is actually
25:14
Speaker 1: a dream interview for anybody doing it, because you just
25:17
Speaker 1: blow him out of the water. I mean here we
25:19
Speaker 1: are thousands of miles away and we can pick apart
25:23
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Well, speaking of the picture, or lisn't
25:26
Speaker 1: to Prince Andrew, I don't remember that photograph ever being taken.
25:33
Speaker 1: I don't remember going upstairs in the house because that
25:35
Speaker 1: photographs taken upstairs. And I'm not entirely convinced that I
25:44
Speaker 1: mean that is that is what I would describe as
25:46
Speaker 1: as me in that picture, but I can't we can't
25:49
Speaker 1: be certain as to whether or not that's my hand
25:52
Speaker 1: on her whatever it is left left side. You think
25:58
Speaker 1: that because I have no recollection that photograph ever being taken,
26:02
Speaker 1: So why would somebody have put in another hand? You
26:05
Speaker 1: think it is you next to her in the photo? Oh,
26:08
Speaker 1: it's definitely mean that's a picture of me. It's not
26:11
Speaker 1: a picture of I don't believe it's a picture of
26:13
Speaker 1: me in London because when I would go out, when
26:15
Speaker 1: I go out in London, I wear a suit and
26:18
Speaker 1: a tie. That's what I would just grabe as those
26:22
Speaker 1: are my traveling clothes. If I'm going to go, if
26:25
Speaker 1: I'm going overseas. There's a I've got plenty of photographs
26:28
Speaker 1: of me dressed in those sorts of that sort of kit,
26:33
Speaker 1: but not there. Okay, that's where he's losing everybody once again.
26:37
Speaker 1: Guys who are listening now to the infamous interview given
26:40
Speaker 1: by Prince Andrew if you haven't seen it, trying to
26:43
Speaker 1: wiggle out of underage sex with a US girl. Man,
26:47
Speaker 1: it is something to behold. It's everything you should not
26:50
Speaker 1: do in an interview to doctor Karen. Start what I'm
26:53
Speaker 1: saying about losing everybody when you start talking to regular
26:58
Speaker 1: people like us about your suit versus your traveling clothes.
27:02
Speaker 1: All right, a lot of people can't relate to someone
27:05
Speaker 1: having a set of traveling clothes. And also, Karen, I
27:10
Speaker 1: want you to listen before you comment on that. Take
27:13
Speaker 1: a listen to more of Prince Andrew's claims trying to
27:18
Speaker 1: wiggle out of sex with an underage American girl. The
27:21
Speaker 1: other aspect of this is that is that I live
27:25
Speaker 1: in an institution at Buckingham Palace which has members of
27:30
Speaker 1: staff walking around all the time. And I don't wish
27:34
Speaker 1: to appear grand, but there were a lot of people
27:38
Speaker 1: who were walking around. Jeffrey Epstein's house. As far as
27:43
Speaker 1: I was aware, they were staff. They were people that
27:46
Speaker 1: were working for him or doing things. As it were.
27:50
Speaker 1: I interacted with them if you were to say good morning,
27:53
Speaker 1: good afternoon, but I didn't, if you see what I mean,
27:57
Speaker 1: interact with them in a way that was what are
28:00
Speaker 1: you doing here? Why you hear what's going on? But
28:02
Speaker 1: you'd notice if there were hundreds of underage girls and
28:05
Speaker 1: bucks but you've done but sorry? You would notice if
28:08
Speaker 1: there were one hundreds of underage girls in Jeffrey's house,
28:12
Speaker 1: wasn't there not when I was there. Now, he may
28:15
Speaker 1: have changed his behavior patterns in order for that not
28:24
Speaker 1: to be obvious to me. So I don't know. I mean,
28:27
Speaker 1: this is you're asking me to speculate on things that
28:31
Speaker 1: I just don't know about. So doctor Kieran start he
28:35
Speaker 1: thought all the underage girls were staff there to wait
28:37
Speaker 1: on him. Well, we know that's ridiculous, Nancy. And the
28:41
Speaker 1: man goes out in these parties, and he stayed with Jeffrey.
28:44
Speaker 1: He went supposedly he went back there because he found
28:48
Speaker 1: out that the guy was in trouble and being with
28:51
Speaker 1: underage girls and was going in aughty friends with him,
28:54
Speaker 1: and so what he hid all the underage girls, and
28:58
Speaker 1: only this one girl who happened to be in the
29:01
Speaker 1: photograph was the one that was around. Because he doesn't
29:05
Speaker 1: deny that's him, It's just he didn't have his arm
29:08
Speaker 1: around her. He knows even in that it's so strange.
29:12
Speaker 1: He doesn't say, there's no way I never met her.
29:15
Speaker 1: I didn't see her. I didn't get close to her.
29:18
Speaker 1: He says, I didn't had my arm around her. I
29:21
Speaker 1: don't do public display of the section. He nobody even
29:25
Speaker 1: coached him to say the right thing. Crime stories with
29:39
Speaker 1: Meancy Grace, I have no recollection of ever meeting her.
29:46
Speaker 1: I'm almost in fact, I'm convinced that I was never
29:51
Speaker 1: in tramps with her. There are a number of things
29:53
Speaker 1: that are wrong with that story, one of which is
29:56
Speaker 1: that is that I don't know where the bar isn't
29:59
Speaker 1: in Trumps. I don't drink. I don't think I've ever
30:07
Speaker 1: bought a drink in Trumps whenever I was there, Do
30:12
Speaker 1: you remember dancing at Trump? No, that couldn't have happened
30:17
Speaker 1: because the date that is being suggested, I was at
30:20
Speaker 1: home with the children. You are hearing the now infamous
30:23
Speaker 1: interview that Prince Andrew of Wales gave to the BBC
30:28
Speaker 1: Emily Mateless and boy is it a stinker. In the US,
30:33
Speaker 1: we would have a field day with this and it
30:36
Speaker 1: would be brought in front of a jury with claims
30:38
Speaker 1: of under age sex. That's a felony. But so far
30:42
Speaker 1: nothing of the sort has happened. But of course, as
30:45
Speaker 1: great as my panel is today, Lloyd Steiger, doctor Karen Start,
30:49
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan to leave my page, Prince Andrew is
30:52
Speaker 1: a star. Let's take a listen to Prince Andrew in
30:55
Speaker 1: his own words, there is video footage of epstein a
31:00
Speaker 1: companied by young girls, and you were there staying in
31:03
Speaker 1: his house catching up with friends. I never I mean
31:07
Speaker 1: a minute. If they were then I wasn't a party
31:12
Speaker 1: to any of that. I never saw them. I mean
31:15
Speaker 1: you have to have to understand that that his house.
31:20
Speaker 1: I described it more as a as a as almost
31:23
Speaker 1: as a railway station, if you know what I mean,
31:25
Speaker 1: in the sense that there were people coming in and
31:26
Speaker 1: out of that house all the time. What they were
31:30
Speaker 1: doing and why they were there I had nothing to
31:34
Speaker 1: do with. So I'm afraid I can't make any comment
31:39
Speaker 1: on that because I really don't know. I mean, is
31:42
Speaker 1: it just me? But Chloe's Dagger Seattle PD homicide detective
31:48
Speaker 1: and author. I'm not going to name her, but I
31:51
Speaker 1: would say one of my very dearest friends has been
31:55
Speaker 1: known to smoke a joint. And the few times times
32:00
Speaker 1: that I would be at her place and other people
32:04
Speaker 1: would take out a joint, you know what I do? Leave? Leave,
32:07
Speaker 1: get up and leave. Can you just even imagine that
32:12
Speaker 1: on the front of page six j lights up? Okay,
32:16
Speaker 1: that's not good, and that's what I've told my children.
32:20
Speaker 1: You don't have to condemn the people around you, you
32:22
Speaker 1: don't have to judge them, you don't have to comment
32:25
Speaker 1: on it. But when you are around activity that's wrong,
32:29
Speaker 1: you must leave. You can be polite about it, you
32:32
Speaker 1: can make up an excuse. I advise, just don't lie
32:35
Speaker 1: because lies get bigger and bigger and bigger when you
32:37
Speaker 1: have to keep them up. But if he thought anything
32:41
Speaker 1: was amiss, why not leave? Especially in his position because
32:46
Speaker 1: with great blessings comes great duties. And his only duty
32:53
Speaker 1: he's not running England, He has no duties other than titular.
32:59
Speaker 1: Ali has to do is behave. That's it. So Chloyd's Tiger,
33:03
Speaker 1: why not with his upbringing, why doesn't he just get
33:07
Speaker 1: up and leave. Well, you're exactly right, that's what you do,
33:10
Speaker 1: that's what a normal person does. But you know, he
33:12
Speaker 1: is I agree with psychologists, he's narcissistic. He's been raised
33:17
Speaker 1: as a member of the royal family. He thinks differently
33:20
Speaker 1: than everybody else. You certainly leave, and you certainly don't
33:23
Speaker 1: stay for three or four days at the place when
33:26
Speaker 1: you said, yeah, we can't be seen together anymore. What
33:29
Speaker 1: kind of sense does that make this guy? You just
33:31
Speaker 1: sit back with this guy in an interview and you
33:33
Speaker 1: see handing him rope, handing him rope and he wraps
33:35
Speaker 1: it around his own neck and hangs himself. This is
33:38
Speaker 1: a It's just there's so much deception in this and
33:41
Speaker 1: it's so obvious that he's just lying. It's just it's incredible. Well,
33:46
Speaker 1: I mean, us authorities are going to have to decide
33:48
Speaker 1: what they're going to do about it. The statute of
33:50
Speaker 1: limitations has passed in many jurisdictions. But what about this case.
33:55
Speaker 1: And you know, doctor Karen starts psychologists joining me from Manhattan. Karen,
34:01
Speaker 1: I really think that most people, when they're in a
34:04
Speaker 1: situation where things are happening around them that are wrong.
34:08
Speaker 1: They just sit there. They're like sheep. You have to
34:11
Speaker 1: have the gumption to leave. And it doesn't matter whose
34:16
Speaker 1: feelings you heard, or if it's a social faux paw,
34:18
Speaker 1: none of that matters. It had to have been pounded
34:21
Speaker 1: into him in his upbringing not to be in precarious situations.
34:25
Speaker 1: So I don't believe anything he's saying, and you're right
34:28
Speaker 1: to not believe it, Nancy, because it was pounded into him.
34:32
Speaker 1: The problem is when you're talking about that personality, a
34:36
Speaker 1: narcissistic personality as we've said, and the fact that he's
34:41
Speaker 1: parted the royal family. He really does believe that he's
34:46
Speaker 1: above everyone else, and he couldn't get away with anything
34:50
Speaker 1: that's been drilled into him. He has to. Karen, you
34:54
Speaker 1: know how much I love you, right because you and
34:57
Speaker 1: I go way back to like nineteen ninety seven. But
35:00
Speaker 1: as much as I love the sound of your voice,
35:03
Speaker 1: you've got to hear this from air Drew. Another guest
35:06
Speaker 1: was John Brockman, the literary agent. Now he described seeing
35:10
Speaker 1: you there getting a foot massage from a young Russian woman.
35:16
Speaker 1: Did that happen? You're absolutely sure you can't remember absolutely so,
35:21
Speaker 1: John Brockman's statement is false. Well, I wouldn't. I wouldn't.
35:25
Speaker 1: I don't know, mister Brockman, so I don't know what
35:28
Speaker 1: he's talking about. But that definitely wasn't you getting a
35:31
Speaker 1: foot massage from a Russian girl in Jeffrey Epstein's house.
35:36
Speaker 1: It might seem a funny way to break off a friendship,
35:39
Speaker 1: a four day house party of sorts with a dinner,
35:42
Speaker 1: it's an odd way to break aff that. That's a
35:46
Speaker 1: very stark way of putting it. Yes, you're absolutely right,
35:51
Speaker 1: But actually, the the the truth of it is that
35:55
Speaker 1: is that I actually only saw him for about what
36:01
Speaker 1: the part that the dinner party, the walk in the park,
36:04
Speaker 1: and probably passing in the passage. Okay, well he brought
36:09
Speaker 1: up the walk in the park himself. I didn't bring
36:12
Speaker 1: it up. So so far, Virginia, Jeffries is lying, the
36:16
Speaker 1: photo was faked, and now a literary agent is lying
36:19
Speaker 1: about a foot massage from a Russian model. He even
36:22
Speaker 1: says the walk in the park was set up. Wisten.
36:25
Speaker 1: We can't find any evidence, or my staff and my
36:29
Speaker 1: people and I can't find any evidence to suggest that
36:33
Speaker 1: that was what he was doing. I mean, you can
36:36
Speaker 1: look at it in so many different ways that the
36:38
Speaker 1: fact of the factor is is that somebody very cleverly
36:43
Speaker 1: took that photograph. It wasn't, as far as I remember,
36:49
Speaker 1: nor do my security people remember anybody being present or close,
36:57
Speaker 1: because there were enough security around. I mean, there's the
37:01
Speaker 1: photographs of the security people are around in the photo. Okay,
37:05
Speaker 1: you know what. I used to love it when defense
37:08
Speaker 1: would do this. Everybody's lying but me, everybody the photo
37:12
Speaker 1: with Jeffreies Fate, the walk was set up. He doesn't
37:15
Speaker 1: say there was no walk, nothing happened, there was no
37:19
Speaker 1: foot massage, there was no sex. I don't sweat you
37:22
Speaker 1: know what. He's lying. My big question now, what are
37:26
Speaker 1: we going to do about it? Nancy Grace Crime Story
37:30
Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye friend,