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Justin Verlander's retirement, the MLB Draft and a trade mailbag · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome in. And during that episode of Tiger Territory,
0:12
Speaker 1: partly the Foul Territory Detroit Tiger's Podcast, I'm Kieruscley with
0:15
Speaker 1: me as always as a man who makes the road
0:17
Speaker 1: less traveled a little bit more traveled. He is Cody Stavenhagen.
0:21
Speaker 2: How we doing doing good? Doing good? I tell people
0:24
Speaker 2: travel is the best and worst part of this job.
0:28
Speaker 2: But you know what's going on right now, Kieran. The
0:30
Speaker 2: Tigers just keep winning. I'm telling you, it's getting interesting.
0:34
Speaker 2: They've won seven of eight. Playoff odds are up to
0:37
Speaker 2: thirty three percent. Somewhere Scott Harris is sitting there and
0:41
Speaker 2: just being like I told you.
0:46
Speaker 1: There's a lot of I told you is that given
0:49
Speaker 1: the nature of the game, he might want to take
0:51
Speaker 1: advantage of before things potentially go go horribly wrong as
0:55
Speaker 1: we've seen like either way, man, it can happen in
0:58
Speaker 1: the snap. And that's what we're seeing recording this Thursday morning.
1:02
Speaker 1: It will be published right a little bit, a little
1:05
Speaker 1: bit before noon. I am traveling all day today, so
1:08
Speaker 1: I wanted to get this in before Thursday night's game,
1:10
Speaker 1: and and you know, with all the topics going on,
1:13
Speaker 1: I just didn't really feel like waiting around to talk
1:15
Speaker 1: about him, and one of them is Dylan Dingler. So
1:18
Speaker 1: we'll probably get more clarity later today, but we do
1:21
Speaker 1: kind of want to address it right now. Dylan Dingler
1:24
Speaker 1: takes a foul ball off his throwing hand, off a
1:27
Speaker 1: check swing knob of foul ball, if memory serves, and
1:32
Speaker 1: stayed in the game, got looked at pretty well, stayed
1:34
Speaker 1: in the game, and then event you know, to finish
1:36
Speaker 1: the ending, and then eventually gets pulled for Jake Rogers,
1:39
Speaker 1: who it's a home run. So again, all the fun
1:41
Speaker 1: stories around this team continue with the Jake Rodgers piece there,
1:44
Speaker 1: but with Dylan Dingler X raiser negative. More tests probably
1:48
Speaker 1: literally happen right now as we're recording this. Uh, I
1:52
Speaker 1: didn't get a panicked impression watching a J. Hinch's presser
1:57
Speaker 1: and him kind of explaining it. But and you know, again,
2:00
Speaker 1: the initial X rays were negative. That obviously is a
2:02
Speaker 1: good thing. But so we don't necessarily have to speculate
2:06
Speaker 1: about the injury, you know, before we know anything. But
2:09
Speaker 1: the larger question is Cody. The Tigers have been pretty
2:12
Speaker 1: stable at catcher for the better part of two years now,
2:17
Speaker 1: and at credit to those guys for for the most part,
2:20
Speaker 1: being healthy. Thomas Nito last year when Jake Rogers had
2:22
Speaker 1: the oblique, What would be the plan now if either
2:27
Speaker 1: one of them happened to get hurt, Because they have
2:30
Speaker 1: a couple of catchers on the forty man, but they're
2:35
Speaker 1: more on the forty man for protection reasons than immediate
2:38
Speaker 1: call of reasons. I thought, so, what do you think
2:41
Speaker 1: would kind of be the plan?
2:43
Speaker 2: You know, it would actually be pretty interesting to see,
2:46
Speaker 2: I guess. I hope we don't have to see it.
2:47
Speaker 2: But there are two options to Amasnito kind of the stable,
2:51
Speaker 2: sturdy veteran. You know what you're getting, the defense is
2:54
Speaker 2: going to be pretty good. Or Edwardo Valencia, you know,
2:57
Speaker 2: a guy who for a little bit was a little
2:58
Speaker 2: bit of a darling in training. He has an eight
3:01
Speaker 2: thirty nine ops in Toledo. Back when it seemed to
3:05
Speaker 2: the Tigers were going to sell everything off and have
3:07
Speaker 2: to punt this season, I was kind of interested, like,
3:10
Speaker 2: are they, you know, are they going to give Valencia
3:13
Speaker 2: a shot? You know what would that mean for Jake
3:16
Speaker 2: Rogers if they just want to see Valencia play. I
3:18
Speaker 2: don't think the defense is good, but the bat is
3:24
Speaker 2: pretty real. I say that in the context of I
3:26
Speaker 2: still know exactly what that looks like in the major leagues.
3:29
Speaker 2: But this guy can hit the ball really hard. He
3:32
Speaker 2: can catch up to velocity. He's not quite matched what
3:36
Speaker 2: he did in the miners last year when he had
3:38
Speaker 2: a nine to forty one ops twenty four homers, except well,
3:42
Speaker 2: the homer total might end up even higher. He has
3:44
Speaker 2: sixteen bombs right now in Triple A Toledo. He's an
3:48
Speaker 2: interesting right handed bat who is probably going to be
3:52
Speaker 2: in this organization in some fashion for a few more
3:55
Speaker 2: years to come. I don't really know who they would pick,
3:59
Speaker 2: and some of it might depend where they're at, given
4:03
Speaker 2: the role they're on right now. I wonder if it
4:04
Speaker 2: would make more sense to just bring up Needo, because
4:08
Speaker 2: you know what you get. You know, he can manage
4:10
Speaker 2: the pitching staff, the defense, all that. It seems a
4:13
Speaker 2: little safer. But if they were to fall completely out
4:17
Speaker 2: of it, I think there's a stronger case to just
4:19
Speaker 2: let Valencia play. So I don't know, and I hope
4:22
Speaker 2: I don't have to find out anytime. Sooning stuff. The
4:24
Speaker 2: Tigers lose Dylan Dingler, that would be quite the blow.
4:28
Speaker 1: Obviously, obviously. And yeah, and I would say in regards
4:34
Speaker 1: to the needle piece of this, the starting pitching, you
4:37
Speaker 1: know Melton nine kgs yesterday. The starting pitching is so
4:42
Speaker 1: much a part of what we're experiencing with this twenty
4:46
Speaker 1: and twelve record since June first, that you every corner
4:50
Speaker 1: sort of move really has to kind of be made
4:53
Speaker 1: with that in mind to be able to maximize the
4:55
Speaker 1: starting pitching. I had no idea of Valencia of what
4:57
Speaker 1: his capabilities are with that, no I So I'm not
5:00
Speaker 1: saying he can't do it, but we do have proof
5:02
Speaker 1: of concept with Tomas, so that tends to be even
5:06
Speaker 1: if it's safer, one could argue would be the more
5:08
Speaker 1: astute thing to do as well. And shout out Jake
5:12
Speaker 1: coming off the bench obviously not expecting to ever come
5:15
Speaker 1: off the bench in the second inning when you're when
5:17
Speaker 1: you're backing up, Dylan Dingler come off the bench hit
5:20
Speaker 1: a bomb, just to you know, and also he scores
5:23
Speaker 1: a run with the torque bomb too. Just just a
5:25
Speaker 1: guy that you just can't help but smile when you
5:28
Speaker 1: see him have success. So, like you know, there's there
5:31
Speaker 1: there's a lot that people, some that can say about
5:34
Speaker 1: Jake Rogers and what is like, you know, his hitting
5:36
Speaker 1: ceiling is whatever. There's a lot that makes me think
5:39
Speaker 1: I just want Jake Rogers on my baseball team as
5:42
Speaker 1: long as possible. You know, there will be an endpoint
5:45
Speaker 1: to this, but as long as possible. I like watching
5:47
Speaker 1: Jake Rodgers play baseball.
5:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, in another world where we had nothing else to
5:52
Speaker 2: talk about and things were boring, we could spend ten
5:54
Speaker 2: minutes talking about Jake Rogers. A Jake kind of wax
5:57
Speaker 2: poetic about Jake last night. He's he still remains a
6:01
Speaker 2: glue guy for this team. That is all very real,
6:04
Speaker 2: and he's done a pretty admirable job of handling a
6:07
Speaker 2: significant role change, a significant decline and playing time over
6:10
Speaker 2: the past let's say calendar year. Unfortunately, we have like
6:14
Speaker 2: a million other things going on. So Jake, we'll get
6:18
Speaker 2: to you a little more next time. How's that.
6:22
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we talked a little bit a couple
6:26
Speaker 1: episodes ago about the Tigers not having a pitching All
6:29
Speaker 1: Star pitcher All Star you know this year, and well,
6:33
Speaker 1: lo and behold, major League Baseball said we can't have that,
6:36
Speaker 1: and they selected Justin Verlander to be the commissioner's pick.
6:43
Speaker 1: And it coincided with them. It was with him like
6:46
Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty minutes Justin Verlander announcing that he will
6:49
Speaker 1: retire at the end of the season. So those things
6:52
Speaker 1: are certain. Justin Verlander is an honorary All Star. Justin
6:55
Speaker 1: Verlander will retire at the end of the season. What
7:00
Speaker 1: everything else is kind of up in the air. Is
7:02
Speaker 1: that Is that a good way to summarize that?
7:05
Speaker 2: Well, like, yeah, to be clear, Justin Verlander is retiring.
7:09
Speaker 2: He is not retiring today. He is still pretty adminant
7:12
Speaker 2: that he is going to come back and pitch. My
7:15
Speaker 2: day yesterday was just a train wreck. I was like
7:18
Speaker 2: out for a run before heading to the ballpark. I
7:21
Speaker 2: get home, I'm all sweaty. It's like, Justin's going to
7:23
Speaker 2: the All Star Game. It's like, well, okay, he's hurt,
7:26
Speaker 2: but cool, Yeah, I can start trying to write something up. Oh,
7:29
Speaker 2: by the way, Justin Verlander is retiring. So it turns
7:32
Speaker 2: out these announcements were more or less coordinated, although it's
7:37
Speaker 2: still kind of funny how it came out. Rob Manfred
7:39
Speaker 2: had known this for a while. Justin wanted kind of
7:44
Speaker 2: the announcement that he's retiring at season's end. To coincide
7:48
Speaker 2: with the All Star Legend pick announcement, basically because he
7:52
Speaker 2: didn't want to go into the All Star Game where
7:54
Speaker 2: there is a crazy media presence and have to be
7:57
Speaker 2: asked a million times are you retiring or are you not?
8:00
Speaker 2: Or do you know what's going on? It was interesting
8:03
Speaker 2: both Justin's statement that he put out on social media
8:06
Speaker 2: was clearly really good, really heartfelt, and then to hear
8:09
Speaker 2: him talk. Obviously it's been a tough year for him,
8:13
Speaker 2: but he was able to talk about all this with
8:15
Speaker 2: a pretty high degree of clarity. He said, you know,
8:18
Speaker 2: it's the right conclusion. He's at peace with it. He's
8:21
Speaker 2: been trending this direction for quite some time, talking about
8:25
Speaker 2: things out in the open that he never really would
8:27
Speaker 2: have even shared with himself before, in terms of just
8:30
Speaker 2: kind of uttering the word retirement and maybe it's time
8:33
Speaker 2: to be done and his body is fighting him. But
8:37
Speaker 2: all that said, there wasn't too much reminiscing. There wasn't
8:40
Speaker 2: too much you know. I asked him, like, what do
8:42
Speaker 2: you want your life after baseball to look like? And
8:44
Speaker 2: he kind of said, I'm not ready to talk about
8:46
Speaker 2: that because he's still pretty adamant he's going to pitch
8:49
Speaker 2: this year. There might be people out there rolling their
8:52
Speaker 2: eyes at that, and I don't know that I blame you,
8:54
Speaker 2: but like I'm just telling you what Justin Verlander is saying.
8:57
Speaker 2: He thinks he can make it back. That might just
8:59
Speaker 2: be the competitor in him. That might be the mindset
9:02
Speaker 2: that got him great, made him such a great pitcher,
9:06
Speaker 2: now has him kind of holding on a little bit
9:08
Speaker 2: stubbornly at the end. But he's gonna throw a bullpen
9:11
Speaker 2: session today Thursday. Maybe that'll provide some better clarity as
9:15
Speaker 2: to where he's at with this most recent injury, the
9:18
Speaker 2: hamstring strain. I don't know what it looks like when
9:20
Speaker 2: he comes back. I think let's imagine the Tigers keep
9:23
Speaker 2: rolling and keep winning and their rotation stays healthy and
9:26
Speaker 2: every game matters. When and how are you even mixing
9:30
Speaker 2: him in? That could get weird if you fall totally
9:33
Speaker 2: out of it. It could be very easy to give
9:35
Speaker 2: him a ceremonial start and sell a bunch of tickets
9:38
Speaker 2: and everyone feels happy for a day. So I don't
9:40
Speaker 2: know exactly what this is going to look like, But
9:43
Speaker 2: if Justin Verlner has his way, kind of his last
9:47
Speaker 2: conquest in Major League Baseball. I think is going to
9:49
Speaker 2: be making it back to the mound and pitching at
9:52
Speaker 2: Camerica Park at least one last time. If we're up
9:55
Speaker 2: to Justin Verlander, he'd like to come back and be
9:58
Speaker 2: a serious contributor to this team down the stretch. All
10:01
Speaker 2: that of course saw us to play.
10:03
Speaker 1: Out serious contributor to a serious competitor. Chalk him among
10:09
Speaker 1: the guys that is sort of saying like, hey, like
10:12
Speaker 1: we understand how we got here, but we're playing good
10:15
Speaker 1: baseball and like they're not in cell mode. And I
10:20
Speaker 1: actually kind of appreciate him, And I think school Boll
10:23
Speaker 1: has been on the record of saying this, like just
10:25
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, like we're trying to win. We're trying
10:27
Speaker 1: to encourage the front office to buy at the trade deadline,
10:31
Speaker 1: which is kind of impressive given just where we were
10:36
Speaker 1: and all the things that we were talking about not
10:37
Speaker 1: too long ago. So like you say, like, if they're
10:41
Speaker 1: out of it'd be easy to give him an honorary start,
10:43
Speaker 1: and that's obviously true. But I think Justin Berlander and
10:46
Speaker 1: the competitor in him and sort of like how we
10:48
Speaker 1: envisioned this storybook ending wants to pitch meaningful baseball for
10:53
Speaker 1: a meaningful baseball team. So obviously a lot to be
10:57
Speaker 1: determined between now and then. On both sides of that,
11:00
Speaker 1: it did seem like that is still very much his
11:02
Speaker 1: intention despite everything that's gone on so far. All Right,
11:06
Speaker 1: we are going to take a quick break and then
11:08
Speaker 1: afterward do a little MLB Draft talk as this weekend
11:11
Speaker 1: the MLB Draft is happening, and will the Tigers stick
11:14
Speaker 1: to their model that more after this break book.
11:19
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12:22
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here. As I said earlier, MLB
12:24
Speaker 1: Draft is this weekend. They split it up over the
12:27
Speaker 1: course of two days, so Saturday and Sunday the Tigers
12:30
Speaker 1: will make their newest selections to add to the organization.
12:33
Speaker 1: And so I wanted to kind of start out by
12:38
Speaker 1: going backward a little bit, Cody and just kind of
12:40
Speaker 1: give some names that have our noteworthy under the really
12:45
Speaker 1: short in terms of draft Scott Harris regime, and of
12:48
Speaker 1: course Kevin McGonagall that's a headliner. Kevin mcgonagal was the
12:53
Speaker 1: second pick of the Harris regime after Max Clark, who
12:57
Speaker 1: we'll get into that in a second. Feels like somebody
12:59
Speaker 1: who has at least kind of lived up to the
13:01
Speaker 1: prospect hype, if at least we just don't know what
13:04
Speaker 1: kind of Major League Baseball player he will be because
13:06
Speaker 1: he has yet to reach the majors. Jim Jarvis, old
13:10
Speaker 1: friend Jim Jarvis, who was a part of the Rafael
13:12
Speaker 1: Montero trade. He was a leven round pick. He's made
13:14
Speaker 1: the major leagues. He's got like twenty at bats for Atlanta.
13:16
Speaker 1: So you know, eleven round pick made the biggest. Couple
13:18
Speaker 1: of years later, thought that was of note. And then
13:22
Speaker 1: you have got a couple of guys that feel promising
13:26
Speaker 1: to some scouts and some prospect analyst Max Anderson, John Beck,
13:31
Speaker 1: Brent Callahan. We might see some of those guys this year,
13:34
Speaker 1: you know, depending on how things shake up. And then,
13:37
Speaker 1: of course, kind of appropriately we're talking about this now
13:40
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, Rice Rayner, who just came off
13:46
Speaker 1: a five for five hit day, looking like a guy
13:49
Speaker 1: who could end up being at or near the top
13:52
Speaker 1: of a lot of prospect rankings. Obviously I don't have
13:55
Speaker 1: a scouting report on him, but my feed is flooded
13:57
Speaker 1: with things that Bryce Rayner is doing quite impressive. He'll
14:01
Speaker 1: he'll probably climb up the system. And then you know,
14:04
Speaker 1: last year, Jordan Jost, first round pick, he had a
14:07
Speaker 1: had a home run in a spring training game. First pitch.
14:09
Speaker 1: I believe in the spring that they faced in a spring
14:13
Speaker 1: training game hit a home run. So that was a
14:14
Speaker 1: nice little story. These are everybody knows the theme here.
14:19
Speaker 1: The Harris regime loves up the middle athletes that bat
14:23
Speaker 1: left handed, and so so I have a I have
14:27
Speaker 1: like a quick thought here, Cody, is this Are they
14:33
Speaker 1: gonna have to Are they gonna double down on this
14:35
Speaker 1: strategy this year? Especially the prep piece of this, because
14:39
Speaker 1: it is of no, we didn't talk about this. The
14:42
Speaker 1: you know, major League Baseball as part of their collective bargaining,
14:46
Speaker 1: you know, putting putting out information about the things that
14:50
Speaker 1: they're you know, talking to the players about, has included
14:54
Speaker 1: no more high school players ineligible for the draft. So
14:59
Speaker 1: it stands to reason this could be the last prep draft,
15:04
Speaker 1: and this is the last prep draft. This is the
15:07
Speaker 1: last opportunity you're gonna have to get these kind of
15:09
Speaker 1: guys at eighteen, seventeen years old, nineteen years old in
15:12
Speaker 1: some cases and kind of mold them their entire base,
15:16
Speaker 1: you know, professional adult baseball career. So do you think
15:19
Speaker 1: that is something that is of a factor as the
15:24
Speaker 1: Tigers approached this draft.
15:25
Speaker 2: You're saying the end of preps being eligible for the
15:29
Speaker 2: MLB Draft. Yeah, I doubt that would impact their decision
15:36
Speaker 2: making on a pick this year. I still think they're
15:38
Speaker 2: going to take the player they like the most and
15:40
Speaker 2: they think fits their organization the most. I don't think
15:43
Speaker 2: they would reconfigure their draft board just to say, hey,
15:46
Speaker 2: let's get a high schooler one more time. I also
15:49
Speaker 2: think the idea of prep players like it. Good good
15:54
Speaker 2: luck getting the union to agree to that. So there's
15:57
Speaker 2: still much to be determined. No, I don't think that'll
15:59
Speaker 2: be a actor at all.
16:01
Speaker 1: Okay, well, because again that's that's been the conversation at
16:06
Speaker 1: the top of the draft and obviously throughout for a
16:08
Speaker 1: lot of Scott Harrison, most notably is taking Max Clark
16:13
Speaker 1: over Wyatt Langford, who I will remind people Whyite Langford
16:16
Speaker 1: has eleven point seven career war right now. He was
16:19
Speaker 1: a four point two guy as a rookie five point
16:21
Speaker 1: five last year. It's been hurt this year it's a
16:23
Speaker 1: one point seven, but nobody's worried about Wyatt Langford having
16:27
Speaker 1: staying power in the major leagues. And I think you
16:30
Speaker 1: and I were both on record as really liking that
16:33
Speaker 1: as a Tiger selection at that time. And then the
16:35
Speaker 1: Max Clark piece happens, and we and you kind of
16:38
Speaker 1: start to understand the philosophy of the Harris regime. Is
16:41
Speaker 1: it as simple as Max Clark, through no fault of
16:46
Speaker 1: his own, is going to have to live up to
16:47
Speaker 1: the building of a wyat Langford and Kevin McGonagall.
16:51
Speaker 2: Well, I think that really helps that you got Kevin McGonagall.
16:54
Speaker 2: And look, you know, the narrative is that they got
16:58
Speaker 2: McGonagall because they were under able to go under slot
17:01
Speaker 2: on Max Clark, and that is that is what they did.
17:05
Speaker 2: Is there a world where they could have got Langford
17:07
Speaker 2: paid McGonagall. In that world, you probably don't draft Max Anderson.
17:11
Speaker 2: You have to go underslot. You know, way throughout the
17:14
Speaker 2: rest of the draft. It's a little tighter. Could have
17:16
Speaker 2: been possible. I don't know, maybe, but this whole thing
17:19
Speaker 2: looks a little better because at least you have Kevin McGonagall,
17:22
Speaker 2: and at least it looks like he's kind of a superstar.
17:25
Speaker 2: The bar for mac Clark, obviously is really high, especially
17:28
Speaker 2: given the player why at Langford has become. We've talked
17:31
Speaker 2: about Max a lot, and again it is a little
17:34
Speaker 2: tough to note, you know, is he Corbyn Carroll was
17:37
Speaker 2: his closest comp and is he going to reach that ceiling?
17:40
Speaker 2: Like I don't know? Is Max Clark is still really young.
17:43
Speaker 2: His minor league numbers is a similar age, not quite
17:46
Speaker 2: what Corbyn Carroll was doing. Okay, he's not Corbyn Carroll,
17:49
Speaker 2: who's one of the best players in the majors. Maybe
17:51
Speaker 2: that's okay. Can you be an everyday center fielder? Can
17:54
Speaker 2: he be dynamic? Can he hit for power? Like we'll see?
17:58
Speaker 2: That's all to say, Like all this time we spend
18:00
Speaker 2: on Max Clark, his development is still going really well.
18:03
Speaker 2: He's still a top ten prospect in the game. So yes,
18:08
Speaker 2: he is in the shadow of Why at Langford and
18:11
Speaker 2: to some degree Kevin McGonagall now, And but that doesn't
18:13
Speaker 2: necessarily mean that any of this is going poorly. And
18:18
Speaker 2: we still don't even really know if it was the
18:20
Speaker 2: right or wrong decision, although obviously why it would look
18:23
Speaker 2: quite nice on this ball clock right now.
18:27
Speaker 1: That's true. And with that in mind, I just wanted
18:29
Speaker 1: to kind of lay out some names that I think
18:31
Speaker 1: have some degree of of Tiger's DNA in them, like
18:37
Speaker 1: that that that the regime would look for probably the
18:40
Speaker 1: most popular un connected to them would be Trevor Condon.
18:43
Speaker 1: He's an outfielder from Georgia. Guess what. He bats left
18:48
Speaker 1: handed and people think he has a you know, he
18:50
Speaker 1: has a smart played approach and can stick in center field,
18:52
Speaker 1: although obviously, you know, being that young in that body type,
18:56
Speaker 1: sometimes you don't know for sure. Cole Prosek, it's a catcher.
19:02
Speaker 1: Some think he's going to be a third basement but
19:04
Speaker 1: again bat's left handed, and uh and and somebody who
19:08
Speaker 1: has a advanced plate approach. Aj Garcia is one if
19:12
Speaker 1: you want to go to college route. He's an outfielder
19:14
Speaker 1: from Virginia. He who has just baller numbers in college.
19:20
Speaker 1: So if they break the mold, aj Garcia just kind
19:23
Speaker 1: of feels like somebody that would that they could do
19:26
Speaker 1: it for. And then one that I am intrigued by
19:29
Speaker 1: because I think these are there are a lot of
19:31
Speaker 1: boxes here that the Tigers will like. Is Rocko Maniscalco.
19:37
Speaker 1: That's a hell of a name, right Alabama shortstop prep guy,
19:41
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. He reclassified Cody. He's a switch hitter.
19:45
Speaker 1: He's already six two, one two. He grades out grades
19:49
Speaker 1: overall fifty on MLB pipeline, and he has an advanced
19:53
Speaker 1: approach for his age is what the Sky report is.
19:55
Speaker 1: So you throw in seventeen years old switch hitter, play
19:58
Speaker 1: shortstop to play it approach at the plate. That feels
20:02
Speaker 1: like a lot of upside that Scott Harris would like.
20:04
Speaker 1: So those are just some names that obviously Tiger's Mileague
20:07
Speaker 1: Report guys like that go really in depth on this.
20:09
Speaker 1: I don't want to proclaim to have as much small
20:12
Speaker 1: knowledge as then, but those are some names that I
20:13
Speaker 1: thought make a lot of sense for the Tigers.
20:17
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, a couple of things real quick here.
20:20
Speaker 2: Kieran like like Ethan bass right handed shortstop, not left
20:25
Speaker 2: handed shortstop. Right handed shortstop is kind of the name
20:28
Speaker 2: getting I think the most attraction on line among some
20:31
Speaker 2: people who know the draft world. I think that would
20:34
Speaker 2: be really interesting, good defender. He's kind of getting the
20:40
Speaker 2: name that's getting the most smoke right now, And I
20:42
Speaker 2: don't know what that means. I haven't heard that from
20:45
Speaker 2: anyone who is inside the Tigers draft room, and I'm
20:48
Speaker 2: at a place with this organization where if I don't
20:50
Speaker 2: hear it from someone who is in the room, I
20:53
Speaker 2: don't know. Especially at the draft. Remember when they took
20:55
Speaker 2: Max Clark, and all we had heard leading up to
20:57
Speaker 2: that draft, and I wrote it was that they wanted
20:59
Speaker 2: a college hitter. Well that was BS. And then last
21:03
Speaker 2: year they took Jordan Jost, and I'm not sure i'd
21:05
Speaker 2: ever heard Jordan Yost's name before. I didn't know who
21:08
Speaker 2: he was. So even though there's some stuff kind of
21:11
Speaker 2: leaking out, I'm just skeptical with this organization. I've seen
21:16
Speaker 2: some mentions of Brody Boumila, a hard throwing, left handed
21:20
Speaker 2: prep pitcher. I love the idea of them taking a
21:23
Speaker 2: high upside pitcher with this pick, but I'd kind of
21:26
Speaker 2: be stunned if Scott Harris were to use a first
21:28
Speaker 2: round selection when a high school pitcher. That would seem
21:32
Speaker 2: to really go against most kind of conventional draft models.
21:35
Speaker 2: So that's all to say, let's wait and see who
21:37
Speaker 2: they take. I think it's going to be fascinating, and
21:39
Speaker 2: there are a million names kind of still flying around.
21:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot harder to do this exercise when
21:45
Speaker 1: you're picking that in the twenties as opposed to.
21:48
Speaker 2: Like, that's part of it. Some of it depends on
21:51
Speaker 2: what happens in front of him, although they'll probably take
21:54
Speaker 2: someone else that no one else wants because they think
21:57
Speaker 2: they are smarter.
22:00
Speaker 1: Almost certainly will be the case in some regard. There.
22:03
Speaker 1: All right, we are going to take a quick break,
22:05
Speaker 1: and then afterward we're going to answer some of your
22:07
Speaker 1: questions in a trade deadline mailbag. But first, a word
22:11
Speaker 1: from our sponsors.
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23:14
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, I want to thank everybody
23:16
Speaker 1: who submitted a question. We'll try to get through as
23:18
Speaker 1: many as many as we can here as we go through,
23:23
Speaker 1: go through the last ten minutes or so of this episode.
23:26
Speaker 1: What we want to start out with? Cody?
23:27
Speaker 2: What we got, We'll go in the order I have him.
23:30
Speaker 2: How about that?
23:31
Speaker 1: Let's go get all right? This is k Love seven
23:35
Speaker 1: seven or seven one one? Excuse me? Do you see
23:37
Speaker 1: Carpenter or Keith ever as two seventy five hitters. Why
23:40
Speaker 1: can't they discipline themselves to stop chasing pitches out of
23:43
Speaker 1: the zone. Seems like they could be Boreline All Stars
23:46
Speaker 1: if they could get that Undertrol. I appreciate you looping
23:52
Speaker 1: these guys in together, but in my mind I look
23:55
Speaker 1: at this part as separate. I don't see carry Carpenter
24:00
Speaker 1: evolving beyond much of what we have right now in him,
24:04
Speaker 1: which is the power upside, which is somebody that you
24:06
Speaker 1: have to game plan for. I do feel like Colt Keith,
24:09
Speaker 1: we still don't one hundred percent know what exactly his
24:13
Speaker 1: like baseline hitter profile is, so I would And obviously
24:18
Speaker 1: he's way younger too, by you know, by player standards,
24:22
Speaker 1: So I think cold Keith could develop that if if
24:25
Speaker 1: he focused on it right. Kerry Carpenter, I kind of
24:28
Speaker 1: feel like is Carry Carpenter and you know, with some
24:31
Speaker 1: variants there, So what do you think about that?
24:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, two very different hitters. And to be fair,
24:38
Speaker 2: Colt Keith ricks in the eighty fifth percentile and chase
24:41
Speaker 2: rate we talked last episode, Like, his at back quality
24:44
Speaker 2: is generally pretty good. It's the contact quality you would
24:47
Speaker 2: like to be improved. Why can't they stop chasing? Why
24:53
Speaker 2: can't let's say, Carry Carpenter specifically stop chasing. I don't know, man,
24:56
Speaker 2: because it's really hard. This guy's also I talked to
25:00
Speaker 2: about it a while back. He's seeing more breaking stuff
25:02
Speaker 2: than ever people know he's chasing. So guess what he's
25:04
Speaker 2: getting more of more spin. They're trying to get him
25:07
Speaker 2: to chase. Obviously, the way to combat that is to
25:11
Speaker 2: stop swinging at those pitches, but especially a hitter like
25:15
Speaker 2: him who's really trying to time up that fastball who's
25:17
Speaker 2: a huge power threat. It's easier said than done to
25:20
Speaker 2: just lay off. Obviously, life would be better if Cary
25:24
Speaker 2: Carpenter would not chase as much. But I don't know
25:28
Speaker 2: that there's a two seventy five hitter in his profile.
25:31
Speaker 2: I think he's probably always going to be a little
25:33
Speaker 2: slightly lower. I mean he's hit for average before, but
25:35
Speaker 2: let's say lower OBP high power ceiling. I mean, obviously legit,
25:39
Speaker 2: legit power from the left side. Cole Keith, You're right,
25:43
Speaker 2: I would like to think this guy could hit two
25:46
Speaker 2: seventy five in the big leagues, but that's kind of
25:48
Speaker 2: what we're waiting. I mean, he hit two sixty as
25:50
Speaker 2: a rookie, so this year. Contact hitting ability is in there,
25:54
Speaker 2: and he's actually not all that far off if you
25:56
Speaker 2: look at what he's done in his career to date.
25:59
Speaker 2: I think the question for me is still like how
26:01
Speaker 2: much power can he unlock? I also think the power
26:04
Speaker 2: is in there. Yeah, What I like most is that
26:07
Speaker 2: the at back quality is there. Sometimes he does pull
26:11
Speaker 2: the ball, but can you pull the ball in the air?
26:13
Speaker 2: Even though it's like overall pull air rate is good,
26:16
Speaker 2: can can you drive the ball with authority more often
26:18
Speaker 2: that's what we're waiting to see, and that's the big question.
26:21
Speaker 2: But I certainly think it is doable for cool Keith.
26:25
Speaker 1: All right, what we got next? All right, this is
26:29
Speaker 1: from Ben Renders. Why do the Tigers never play McGonagall
26:33
Speaker 1: at second base? He played there a little bit of
26:34
Speaker 1: the miners and never played third in the miners. Now
26:36
Speaker 1: he plays third, but never second. Seems like second might
26:40
Speaker 1: actually be the best fit for him long term. Uh,
26:44
Speaker 1: I agree, I do believe that second base is the
26:47
Speaker 1: best fit for him long term. But like you know,
26:49
Speaker 1: coming into this year, Yeah, Glabor, you know what I mean,
26:52
Speaker 1: and you have like you know what we see with
26:54
Speaker 1: Lee mcinstry can play anywhere. You can put more people
26:57
Speaker 1: at second base than you can't source stop, and that's
26:59
Speaker 1: why he's largely been a shortstop. I do believe he
27:02
Speaker 1: is a placeholders too strong, too strong of a word,
27:06
Speaker 1: like I do be like eventually he will be at
27:08
Speaker 1: second base when there is a more high upside shortstop
27:11
Speaker 1: option available, But for now, just be thankful that his
27:16
Speaker 1: profile includes the fact that he can play shortstop, because
27:19
Speaker 1: that was not a given coming into this year.
27:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mostly agree with the premise of this question.
27:25
Speaker 2: I think when Kevin McGonagall is thirty two years old,
27:28
Speaker 2: he's probably going to be playing second base, so long
27:31
Speaker 2: as he's healthy and still moving around well. For some reason,
27:35
Speaker 2: people don't believe me when I say the arm is
27:37
Speaker 2: still like a little bit of a weakness, just because
27:39
Speaker 2: they like see him make a cool throw across the diamond.
27:42
Speaker 2: Kevin ranks in the bottom twenty seventh percentile in arm strength.
27:46
Speaker 2: His average throw was only eighty miles an hour. It's
27:48
Speaker 2: a little bit of a light arm for the left
27:51
Speaker 2: side of the infield. Clearly he's able to make it
27:53
Speaker 2: work and has been a plus defender at third and
27:57
Speaker 2: a really dang good defender at shortstop. I think there
28:00
Speaker 2: was a world at one point where Kevin mcgonag was
28:04
Speaker 2: most likely to be playing second base for the Tigers
28:07
Speaker 2: next season, which does raise the question why didn't they
28:11
Speaker 2: do it this year. We've already seen early in the
28:13
Speaker 2: season a configuration where Hovey was at second and Kevin
28:18
Speaker 2: was playing short, and you would think that would be
28:20
Speaker 2: flip flopped, but that was kind of the philosophy they
28:22
Speaker 2: devised to help Kevin break into the major leagues to
28:26
Speaker 2: really not have to be covering three different positions to
28:29
Speaker 2: not have to be dealing with the difference in angles,
28:34
Speaker 2: you know, from differing sides of the infield. I think
28:37
Speaker 2: they would rather just make that transition in the offseason.
28:40
Speaker 2: But I think Kevin has played so well at short
28:43
Speaker 2: this year in third, but it raises the question, like, Okay,
28:47
Speaker 2: who's playing shortstop next year? You will, in theory, have
28:50
Speaker 2: one more year of Hovey Baiez. But looking at free agency,
28:55
Speaker 2: I'm not getting excited about anyone. It might be easier
28:58
Speaker 2: to bring in someone at second, and there might be
29:00
Speaker 2: a case to bring Labor Torez back. Yet again, we're
29:03
Speaker 2: getting way ahead of ourselves here, But Kevin has played
29:06
Speaker 2: well enough at short that I do wonder maybe you
29:10
Speaker 2: maybe that's the plan until Bryce Rayner is in the
29:12
Speaker 2: major leagues, because I'm just not sure how else you
29:16
Speaker 2: are you are filling all those innings one hundred and
29:20
Speaker 2: sixty two games at short. I do think some of
29:23
Speaker 2: it depends on the rest of the roster construction, But ideally,
29:27
Speaker 2: one day, Kevin mcgonagill, maybe we'll find a more permanent
29:30
Speaker 2: home at second base, where I do think he would
29:32
Speaker 2: be even better than he's been on the left side
29:35
Speaker 2: of the infield.
29:38
Speaker 1: All right, well we got up next, all right from
29:41
Speaker 1: Sparky's ghost. Let's assume the Tigers make it interesting. Who
29:43
Speaker 1: are top three bullpen arms they should target. I'm thinking
29:46
Speaker 1: swing and misguys, Well, and that'd be great. I would
29:51
Speaker 1: I would love for some swing and miss in this bullpen.
29:55
Speaker 1: And and look that the the the brain switch you're
29:59
Speaker 1: gonna have to make if you go from oh man,
30:01
Speaker 1: we're selling to all right, we're buying, is you go
30:04
Speaker 1: from thinking about the value that you will be receiving
30:07
Speaker 1: in your organization to the value that you are going
30:10
Speaker 1: to have to give up in your organization. One of
30:12
Speaker 1: the top arms that's gonna be available come trade deadline
30:16
Speaker 1: time is Luke Weaver. I don't know if anybody's been
30:18
Speaker 1: paying attention, because the Mets are obviously not great, but
30:22
Speaker 1: Luke Weaver is having one hell of a year. He's
30:24
Speaker 1: a he's a one plus one plus war guy. If
30:29
Speaker 1: you want chasing width percentiles eighty eight and ninety respectively,
30:33
Speaker 1: He's got eighty eight percentile k rate. He's not getting
30:37
Speaker 1: a lot of hard contact. Like, there's a lot of
30:40
Speaker 1: things to like about Luke Weaver. He would and obviously experience,
30:43
Speaker 1: you know, all these things that would you would like
30:46
Speaker 1: in a in a playoff team and you know, play
30:49
Speaker 1: a team trying to make a run. Problem is, he's
30:52
Speaker 1: probably gonna be one of the top arms available at
30:56
Speaker 1: the trade deadline, so you're gonna have to pay something.
30:58
Speaker 1: What that is I have no idea what. The Mets
30:59
Speaker 1: are obviously trying to reset for the future, so they're
31:02
Speaker 1: not gonna be uh. And also, Weaver has another year
31:05
Speaker 1: left on his contract. I don't know if it's a
31:07
Speaker 1: player option or whatever, but he is technically under contract
31:11
Speaker 1: for another season, so that will be a piece of
31:14
Speaker 1: the price. Why not call the Giants, I've said this before,
31:17
Speaker 1: Why not call the Giants to just see what's gonna
31:19
Speaker 1: cost to get Dylan Smith back? Like Dylan Smith, Like,
31:23
Speaker 1: it can't be It can't be that expensive to go
31:27
Speaker 1: get Dylan Smith back from the Giants, you know, and
31:29
Speaker 1: and he's shown some promise here and in San Francisco.
31:31
Speaker 1: I think that would be a popular move amongst amongst everybody,
31:37
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't obviously cost you a lot. And then
31:40
Speaker 1: you know, I was trying to look at some other
31:42
Speaker 1: guys that you know, could be Yeah, you like something here,
31:47
Speaker 1: but there's obviously holes here. Uh. Juan Mehita in uh
31:52
Speaker 1: in Colorado intrigues me a little bit. He's got eighty
31:54
Speaker 1: nine percentile fastball velocity, sixty seven percentile chase six per
32:00
Speaker 1: sentile with he is sporting a five seven to nine
32:03
Speaker 1: ERA right now, so obviously he's not perfect. He is
32:06
Speaker 1: playing in Colorado. How much of that I'm not playing there?
32:09
Speaker 1: I am not sure. But again, when you're acquiring guys
32:13
Speaker 1: of the deadline, you're not getting perfect players. And the
32:16
Speaker 1: Tigers are going to be looking at this where it's like,
32:19
Speaker 1: can we get a guy who can excel in this thing?
32:22
Speaker 1: And I think all three of those guys could potentially
32:26
Speaker 1: be there. And then obviously Luke Weaver being the big pride.
32:29
Speaker 1: So those are just some three arms. I kind of
32:31
Speaker 1: like a different tiers is kind of how I tried
32:33
Speaker 1: to do it. That intrigued me at least.
32:37
Speaker 2: Karen, it is really fascinating. Let's say the Tigers get
32:40
Speaker 2: to within three games and it's August third, and I
32:44
Speaker 2: don't know, man, are you sure you're you're trading everyone?
32:47
Speaker 2: Are you sure you're trading Scooble or should you just
32:50
Speaker 2: strengthen this bullpen and freaking go for it. They keep winning,
32:54
Speaker 2: I'm honestly in that camp. Get a couple of relievers,
32:58
Speaker 2: some actual good ones this time, and go for it
33:00
Speaker 2: because you have a pretty good team now. The best
33:03
Speaker 2: reliever on the market's probably gonna be a role as Chapman.
33:05
Speaker 2: I'm gonna assume they're not actually gonna, you know, fishing
33:09
Speaker 2: in that into the pond. Ryan Helsley a guy like
33:13
Speaker 2: he's back on the aisle with with elbow discomfort. Ryan
33:16
Speaker 2: Reiley O'Brien, a controllable reliever, doesn't punch a ton of guys. Cardinals,
33:21
Speaker 2: they were having a good year, whether you even trade them.
33:23
Speaker 2: Brian Abreu is an interesting name. This guy does miss bats,
33:27
Speaker 2: but he's had kind of a terrible season with the Astros,
33:30
Speaker 2: another team still kind of trying to find out what
33:32
Speaker 2: they're gonna do. That does kind of have Tigers written
33:36
Speaker 2: all over it because he's a former Astro and like
33:38
Speaker 2: he's a really good talented pitcher having a bad year,
33:42
Speaker 2: so maybe the price tag lowers. There are other names,
33:46
Speaker 2: but man, if the Tigers could shore up this bullpen
33:50
Speaker 2: with actual swing and miss this time, if they keep
33:53
Speaker 2: winning games, there is a compelling case that that should
33:57
Speaker 2: be the play. Of course, let's play schedule to see
34:00
Speaker 2: what happened from the Phillies coming to town this weekend.
34:03
Speaker 2: The mood could dampen a little bit after that series.
34:06
Speaker 2: Who knows.
34:08
Speaker 1: And that kind of goes into another question. It's like,
34:10
Speaker 1: is there a universe with the Tigers trade for closer
34:12
Speaker 1: ad job to the bullpen? You already have Montero there
34:15
Speaker 1: and suddenly have the best complete pitching staff in baseball.
34:18
Speaker 1: That world exists, So we'll see what they do. All right,
34:21
Speaker 1: what do we have next?
34:22
Speaker 2: All right? Back to this Casey Mice question here?
34:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, at this point, what do you think the free
34:26
Speaker 1: agent market is for Casey Mice? He won this is
34:28
Speaker 1: from Yeoman's play. He won't fetch as much as school ball.
34:31
Speaker 1: So should the Tigers keep and hope they can resign
34:33
Speaker 1: him to something reasonable? Uh? Depends on what your definition
34:36
Speaker 1: of reasonable is. Because the way he's pitching. Uh, there's
34:41
Speaker 1: there's a great amount of good timing happening for Casey Mice,
34:44
Speaker 1: and you know that he's probably gonna be one of
34:47
Speaker 1: those guys that uh, you know, waits on the market
34:51
Speaker 1: to kind of set and then they kind of go,
34:53
Speaker 1: you know, go from there. But right now Cody four
34:58
Speaker 1: for one hundred and not like that, that feels like
35:02
Speaker 1: it's in play.
35:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I'll just say this value keeps getting higher.
35:07
Speaker 2: I was talking with someone probably almost a month ago,
35:11
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, you think you get like
35:12
Speaker 2: three forty five and they were like, I think higher,
35:17
Speaker 2: And I think there's a track record for that. Pictures
35:20
Speaker 2: of this ilk, of this tier just make a lot
35:23
Speaker 2: of money on the open market, and even though like
35:26
Speaker 2: I almost think teams sometimes should avoid that, but you see,
35:29
Speaker 2: you know, even Jack Flaherty, I know he took the
35:32
Speaker 2: qualifying offer, but Jack Flaherty has made a ton of money,
35:36
Speaker 2: even over the last two years when the market hasn't
35:39
Speaker 2: treated him as well as he would like. Casey Mees
35:42
Speaker 2: right now is a two point six B war pitcher.
35:46
Speaker 2: A three war pitcher would in theory be worth somewhere
35:48
Speaker 2: close to twenty four million per year. And then I
35:51
Speaker 2: think the question is how long do you want to
35:53
Speaker 2: go with Casey Mez a guy who does have some
35:55
Speaker 2: injury history, but also a guy who's pitching the best
35:58
Speaker 2: baseball of his career. It's not inconceivable that four one
36:03
Speaker 2: hundred could be in play. In fact, a scout told
36:06
Speaker 2: me recently, I think he could get up to one
36:08
Speaker 2: hundred million. I think if we start talking up to
36:11
Speaker 2: one hundred million, that might be a little too high
36:13
Speaker 2: of a price for the Tigers. You might want to
36:15
Speaker 2: pivot and identify the next casey mies who is someone
36:19
Speaker 2: about to really hit their stride. But I do think
36:22
Speaker 2: there's a case even if they trade him Karen, to
36:26
Speaker 2: try to get this guy back. He does kind of fit.
36:30
Speaker 2: There's a stability element, there's a familiarity element. I don't know.
36:36
Speaker 2: I would be in favor of the Tigers keeping case
36:38
Speaker 2: he miyes. But if they don't do like a deadline selloff,
36:41
Speaker 2: or even if they do, like I said, bring him back,
36:44
Speaker 2: but I wonder if he's almost pitching himself out of
36:47
Speaker 2: that range right now.
36:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I think that's very much a possibility.
36:52
Speaker 1: All Right, we got next.
36:54
Speaker 2: I think that's all we got.
36:57
Speaker 1: It's all we got, Okay, Well, I did want to
36:58
Speaker 1: bring up a question that we got on YouTube Ty Madden. Question,
37:03
Speaker 1: is you know, is this guy still kind of in
37:04
Speaker 1: the picture. Is he somebody that the Tigers should keep
37:07
Speaker 1: stretched out in Toledo or is or is he? Could
37:12
Speaker 1: he be somebody that they turned to for bullpen help
37:15
Speaker 1: as you know, the you know, you kind of give
37:19
Speaker 1: up on the briskies of the world, you give up
37:20
Speaker 1: on some other guys that maybe like aren't aren't performing
37:24
Speaker 1: as well. Is there a Ti Madden piece to this
37:26
Speaker 1: pitching staff in some fashion moving forward?
37:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Ty Maddens not the sexiest name out there,
37:33
Speaker 2: but kind of like cater Montero a couple of years ago,
37:36
Speaker 2: or even a couple of years here's a go version
37:38
Speaker 2: of Ty Madden, Like, this is an important guy to
37:40
Speaker 2: have in your org. He can start, he can he
37:43
Speaker 2: can pitch and relief, he can do different things for you.
37:46
Speaker 2: I would lean towards keeping him stretched out because you
37:49
Speaker 2: just never know when that might come in handy. So yeah,
37:54
Speaker 2: I mean, and I think it's a pretty simple answer
37:56
Speaker 2: to that question. If if you get toward the end
37:59
Speaker 2: of the year and they're a real need, maybe this
38:02
Speaker 2: is a guy who can help you. You still have
38:03
Speaker 2: Brendan Hanafee down there unfortunately forgot Man, despite just pitching
38:09
Speaker 2: well most of the time. So you know, you don't
38:12
Speaker 2: love love your options in Twedo, but I think it's
38:15
Speaker 2: good to have Madden able to do multiple things because
38:18
Speaker 2: you just don't know where the season is going to lead.
38:20
Speaker 1: You don't we know it, Cody, don't we uh So? Yeah, Well,
38:30
Speaker 1: we'll be doing more of these as the trade deadline
38:33
Speaker 1: nears and as we get hopefully a clearer picture as
38:38
Speaker 1: to where the Tigers will be. Uh And the more
38:41
Speaker 1: I think about it, you know, with this record and
38:43
Speaker 1: with you know, having school will, having Miz and all
38:46
Speaker 1: these guys who could potentially be traded or trade chips,
38:50
Speaker 1: kind of holding major League Baseball hostage. The Tigers are
38:52
Speaker 1: and we are there every step of the way. I
38:56
Speaker 1: want to thank everybody for following on next foming on
38:58
Speaker 1: Twitter at Cody Stapenhagen, I met you're an Undercore detectly
39:00
Speaker 1: at pod Paige pod page is at Tiger Territory, Underscore YouTube, Apple, Spotify,
39:05
Speaker 1: you guys know what to do. We appreciate all of you.
39:07
Speaker 1: So for Cody Stavenhagen, I'm Karri Steckley. Everybody, have a
39:10
Speaker 1: great day. H