Latest / Skin Anarchy / Women’s Day Special Ft. @BrownSkinDerm, Dr Adeline Kikam

Transcript

Women’s Day Special Ft. @BrownSkinDerm, Dr Adeline Kikam · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Diablo 4 has arrived.
• 0:03
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• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back to St.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Care Anarchy.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Ekta.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: And wow, do I have a guest for you guys today?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I know you know about her work and her wonderful contributions to the field of dermatology.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: She is truly a leader and an expert in her sub-discipline.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I am just so honored and humbled to be hosting her.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Dr.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Adeline Keekum, who is also known as for her work as Brownskin Derm.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Dr.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Keekum.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so honored, like I said, to host you and to just learn from you today.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: What a wonderful and kind introduction.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: It is such a pleasure to be talking with you today.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, likewise.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited because I very rarely get to interview, you know, just truly like leaders in dermatology.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm always looking for that expert opinion, that expert insight.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I couldn't think of a better person than you to come onto our show and educate us.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to dive right in, actually, Dr.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Kegam, and um ask you about your journey in medicine.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like where did it all begin?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Did you know like from the beginning that you wanted to go into medicine?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you could walk us down memory lane, that would be awesome.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so I am originally from Cameroon, um, in Central Africa.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: If if the accent is not yet giving it away, it's going to.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and uh right from when I was in Cameroon, I immigrated to the US when I was 14 years old.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: But wow, the the earlier part of my childhood, um, I was really drawn to tropical diseases.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_04: I was that kid that would go to the market and just stare.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_04: I was always curious.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um there were lots of skin conditions all around me.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I from that age, I was super fascinated.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I was super fascinated and drawn to the field of um just medicine in general.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know that, you know, there's anything that existed as dermatology or anything or any such that, you know, I was just a curious kid, a very visual kid.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_04: Now, when I migrated to the US, it wasn't lost to me just you know, the the tremendous opportunity to be able to pursue anything, to become anything that I wanted to be, something that I I don't feel, an opportunity that is not available to most people, including young girls growing up in in Cameroon.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: So with that in mind, um, knowing that this was a country of you know possibilities, of dreams, uh and realizing dreams and such, um, I decided earlier on that I was going to go as far possible as I could with my education.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_04: And um because I just loved, uh I was already attracted to the field of of medicine, becoming becoming a doctor was you know just logical to me.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_04: And um I I struggled a lot with acne.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: I struggled a lot with acne, finding access to information.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: So when I got to medical school, I knew dermatology was a specialty I was going to go into.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: And um, that is what I did.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: Now, as you as you know, um dermatology is a very competitive um specialty.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um I didn't match the first time I I applied into dermatology, um, but I never gave up.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_04: It it it was my dream to to to become a dermatology.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that ended up, the doors ended up fortunately opening up for me.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I can say honestly that having this career is like one of the best things that ever happened to me.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you mentioned brown skin derm in the beginning.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: I I started brown skin derm during my dermatology residency in South Texas because I wanted to provide um, you know, skincare information and knowledge that um pertained to communities of color, the the information that I didn't see or wasn't available to me growing up.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: And that's how Brownskin Derm was was born.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, to bridge that gap of um information and dermatologic care for marginalized communities who often feel unseen, unheard, and left out of the greater skincare um world.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: So um yeah, over the years I've I've amassed an extensive and diverse following, and I'm proud to be a clinician, educator, and trusted voice on melanin-rich skin skincare.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love that, and I love what you did from like and the place you did it from, you know, the authenticity of it, because I kid you not, Dr.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Keekum, like I have been like I, you know, I remember when I first was on Instagram, you know, just playing around and I it was like so frustrating for me as well.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm not in the field of dermatology, but just even just, you know, as a scientist, as a medical person, um, you know, I was so floored by how no one was talking about like, you know, the differences in melanin-rich skin versus non.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it was so, you know, absurd to me.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I couldn't figure out like why people were so confused about this concept.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember even like reaching out to some germs at that time and they were like, no, there's no difference.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just not physiologically possible.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I I mean, I I'm I I love that you did what you did in the and and you have this authentic like beginning of it.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something I don't see a lot of in professionals nowadays, because you know, I know we're all very busy and we all have these, you know, really busy medical careers, but at the end of the day, it's about what do you stand for?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: So like I just I love your work.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I really want to ask you also about this uh the skin inclusive, the new business that you've launched, uh skin inclusive dermatology, if you could also tell us about that.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: By the way, thanks for asking about it because this is my baby.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um inclusive dermatology is the name of my new practice that I'm launching soon.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: And um, it's designed to be inclusive of all, and it's really positively inspired by my mission to make dermatologic care accessible and um competently deliver to meet the needs of the entire spectrum of skin tones, types, and conditions.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: And um, it was important to me that we offer um a comprehensive telederm experience to be able to reach as many people as possible to bridge that gap in access to dermatologic care.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: And um, it will be followed by an in-person clinic in South Florida.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: Now on skinclusivederm.com, we are going to provide customized medical, cosmetic, and hair restoration services to really empower women and men of all ages to embrace the authentic self because really I've experienced firsthand the frustrations and challenges with access to skin health information for melanin-rich skin and even more so dermatologic care, which is very, very needed.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: So, starting my own dermatologic practice, um, skin inclusive was the next logical step in my journey.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I chose the name Skin Inclusive because for me, it embodies a vision of world-class dermatologic care that I want to be accessible for all.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: And this new chapter also gives me the opportunity to connect with my ever-growing community on a deeper patient doctor level and to promote that confidence that comes along with loving the skin you're in.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: And that is what skin inclusive dermatology is all about.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's so that's so important.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I like that you went in this telehealth direction.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that that must have been a little difficult to get off the ground at first, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a telehealth is very complicated to start.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I I am learning a lot.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just a dermatologist, right?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: But you need the technology to do this.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm learning a lot of tech in this process.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, as someone wouldn't have access to a dermatologist right up to probably residency, you know, to really be able to talk to someone and um have sorry, medical medical school to talk to someone about my skin and going through all those years of low self-esteem, trying to self-treat my own acne.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted people to feel like they cannot just see me as someone um who educates online, but they can also have access to me as their physician.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, that's why it was really important to crystallize this telederm aspect of it while also having an in-person clinic where I can, you know, do more procedures and offer more services.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love that.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's that's truly, you know, inspired work.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I really, you know, applaud you for you know taking that step and bringing that to us because, you know, I wish more people thought like you about this in terms of really providing access to care.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's one thing like I remember, you know, growing up, the dermatologists were always so busy, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you guys are just filled up for months and months and months, you know, in terms of appointments.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember even being a kid and a teenager and thinking, you know, I have to wait four months just to see my dermatologist, you know, and and then the frustration that comes with that, like if your acne gets worse or like whatever you're dealing with.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that's so wonderful that you're doing this and bringing this to, you know, the community because we need this, you know, we need this kind of access and this kind of um just real information and real, you know, professional advice.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because right now, I mean, the world is the world of influencers is taking over, and every day I'm like, no, like please stop.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to ask you, Dr.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Keekum, you know, um, what do you feel is important to know about skincare versus more invasive procedures, um, as you've seen in your practice and your experience?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I am glad you asked that question because I think it's important to look at skincare um within the context of skin health.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes I feel like we're so detached um from that concept of skin health when we discuss skincare.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: The skin is our largest organ, and the way we care for it is through good skincare practices, uh, such as wearing sun protection, keeping it hydrated, moisturized.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: Now, if you take good care of your skin, then you may not need to resort to more invasive procedures down the road, right?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: Now, rarely do most people need drastic procedures in your everyday life just to take care of your basic skin health.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: But ignoring skin health, not taking care of your skin, may result in more drastic medical interventions, including skin cancer excisions down the line.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I I tell people who often tend to look at skincare as just this, you know, commercialized thing, just spending on every product that is released um on the market just to say that you're you're using something as you know, it's it's not about that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: You have you have to you think about um skincare from or the context from the standpoint of skin health.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what I try to emphasize to my patients about having a routine, um, caring for your skin, the way you would, you know, care for what you eat, or if you a cardiologist was uh advising you about your heart, all the things you would do in terms of physical activity, sometimes because we take our skin for granted, we don't really spend the time and invest in that because we're not looking at it from a skin health perspective, we're just looking at it from a cosmetic and aesthetic perspective.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm 100% behind you with that message.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's so, you know, on point.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I I really hope everyone listening, like you're taking notes because this is really, you know, it's so important to note that dermatology is an ever-evolving field, and to have like leaders such as Dr.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Keekum like validate this kind of information is so important, you know, in terms of just maintenance therapy, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like everyone talks about this, you know, it like for example, I have like an allopathic training, and we were, you know, we were trained to just say put you know drugs everywhere, like prescribe, prescribe, prescribe.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like at the end of the day, you have to really kind of take some more interest in what is, you know, what really is for you good skin health, and then like invest in that, right, Dr.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Hiko?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I I want to the wellness of it all.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I well, I I want to ask you though, because you know, especially with um more melanin-rich skin types, I feel like no one talks about like ingredients or you know, what ingredients really are, you know, more efficacious in the long run.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So could you give us a little bit of a like an overview of things that you think are essential for melanin-rich skin um to associate like to sorry, incorporate into their routine?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: So, great question.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, one skin's needs is uh going to vary from person to person beyond just skin tone.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: I just want to preface that.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: So there's skin type, there's climate, there's lifestyle to be considered when selecting the right ingredients for one's skincare beyond just your skin tone.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_04: Now, but if we're talking generally about skin tone, then when it comes to melanin-rich skin, the common concerns that often arise in this demographic has to do with hyperpigmentation.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: Hyperpigmentation is one of the top reasons why people um seek my help.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: And my go-to ingredients for melanin-rich skin.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I in my go-to ingredients for melanin-rich skin, I always have that this some of these ingredients in mind, um, which include sunscreen, antioxidants, retinoids, and acid exfoliance.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: Sunscreen to me um are indispensable because the sun's ultraviolet rays is not only a major cause of hyperpigmentation, but is a major culprit in worsening and then prolonging its resolution.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: So um it's very important, despite the myth that you always often hear, that um you know, darker skin types or melanin-rich skin does not need sun protection.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I always emphasize um this message every opportunity that I get.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we're becoming better as a community in recognizing that sunscreen is important um regardless of your skin tone.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: And the other the other ingredients that I love for melanin-rich skin are antioxidants.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, antioxidants actually help neutralize free radicals that can cause inflammation that end up worsening or causing hyperpigmentation.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_04: So to me, melanin-rich skin should always try to incorporate that in um the skincare routine.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: Now, um, retinoids, I'm glad uh I'm talking about retinoids in melanin-rich skin because that's another ingredient that people often uh dismiss, uh, unfortunately.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know um how familiar you you are with um retinoids in skin of color, but they are a versatile ingredient.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: But the dark truth is that um if you when you look into the history of retinoids, a lot of the benefits that we know about retinoids today came from unethical research studies on the skin of black prisoners in home surgery in Philadelphia.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a shame to think that a lot of melan folks with melanin-rich skin um are not sure that if if retinoids as an ingredient is appropriate for them because it was literally studied on your skin.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: Retinoids overall are one of the most researched um ingredients in dermatology.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_04: And um, but I they're underutilized.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know about I don't know about some of the other facts you mentioned.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_04: I have to look into it, but they're under they seem to be underutilized in patients of color.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: Now, everything has its pros, its cons, it its adverse reactions.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: But if we're talking topical retinoids, um they're really the gold standard of topical therapy for acne, mild to moderate acne, and they're very useful.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I personally just feel like um they should be utilized in in folks with skin of color where necessary, right?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_04: To really address um their acne and um discoloration and um other other um skincare conditions that are relevant to the use of the retinoids.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: And under medical supervision, I'm sure that we would, you know, guide people on how to use and maximize the benefits.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: Now, I actually like retinoids when it comes to photoaging, and I like addressing fine lines and wrinkles, and I feel like the fact that we have all this data that was already, you know, that we already obtained um testing retinoids on skin of color, it should provide us more information that we're able to use them effectively on skin of color.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: But um, yeah, that that is really my my overall take.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: And the last ingredient I'm going to add is acid exfoliants, they're also wonderful for melanin-rich skin.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: But I totally agree with you.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's more of like, you know, um finding the right person for your skin health concerns.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if you are someone who, you know, does have more melanin-rich skin, you shouldn't be going to, I mean, every doctor's great, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: We all go through like rigorous training, but like you have to go to the experts that are really like like such as yourself, Dr.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Keekum.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, you understand darker skin tones.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like that's something that we don't talk about enough in our in our industry because it's like, you know, we have so many derms, so many options, but you have to really go to people who get it, you know, on a multifaceted level rather than just textbook level.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think a lot of people say, you know, well, every derm, you know, has done the training.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I completely disagree.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think that, you know, the fact that, like, for example, with your work, you've gone way above and beyond the extra mile, you know, you've done your own res like digging and understanding, and and that is so valuable in addition to all of the training you have.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I really, really like just encourage our listeners, especially like, you know, if you guys um are looking for you know a derm or you if you're going to your derm, just you know, be a little like more forward and and ask them, you know, how much do you know about my skin type?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: How much can you tell me about my skin type?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that'll tell you about their understanding, and maybe you can like you know work with them in a way.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, to just take people at face value, I'm just like not a believer in that, you know what I mean?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, and I I definitely I and it's not only for dermatology, this is across, you know, the whole medical field, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_04: You have to do your due diligence.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, to me, when it comes to skin of color, being able to ask those questions, familiarity with lasers and skin of color if the person is doing lasers on your skin type, because there's so many things that can go wrong if you don't have the right expertise um on skin of color.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I definitely agree about you know, doing your research and making sure that you have somebody that is the right fit for your care.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, 100%.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I want to ask you, Dr.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Keek, I'm like what um, you know, there's a lot of misinformation about like skin cancer, I think, out there right now.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I really want to set the records straight and ask, you know, are darker skin types affected by skin cancer?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_04: The answer is a resounding yes.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: You guys heard it here, okay?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, because.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Contrary to um the popular misconception that darker skin is immune to skin cancer, it's not.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: Darker skin does have a lower incidence of skin cancer.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: This is due to um the increased epidermal melanin, um, which is photoprotective, it filters twice as much the ultraviolet radiation compared to those with significantly less melanin.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_04: However, notable factors predisposing persons of color um to skin cancers do exist for both melanoma and non-melanoma skin cancers.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: And let me just elaborate on this answer, if you don't mind, Dr.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_04: Ecta, because I think it's very important.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_04: So, squamous cell patcinoma is the most common skin malignancy in people of African descent, but it's the second most common type of skin cancer in Caucasians.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: Now, ultraviolet radiation is the highest risk factor for squamous cell skin cancer in Caucasians, and it often appears in sun-exposed areas of your bodies.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas in darker skin persons, the most important risk factors for skin, um, for squamous cell cancer are uh are chronic scarring and inflammation.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: Chronic scarring and inflammation, not ultraviolet radiation.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: Now, squamous cell carcinoma um in persons of color tends to be more aggressive, have a higher mortality with an associated rate of metastasis of up to 40% compared to just 1 to 4 percent for ultraviolet induced squamous cell carcinoma in Caucasians.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: So we cannot undermine the importance of education about skin cancer on darker skin folks.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: Lesions tend to occur in non-sun-exposed areas like the leg, the feet, the genital area.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: So it is important for clinicians to examine this area and have a high index of suspicion in patients of color with chronic wounds, burn scars, discoid lupus lesions, um, sites that have been previously treated with radiation therapy.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I want to put this information out there because I know that there are people in the medical field, whether they're family physicians, nurses, that should be aware of this information because oftentimes people of color tend to get dismissed when it comes to um going the extra step in looking for and examining for or having a suspicion um about skin cancer.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: That is so, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you shared that.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I I had no idea.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's really mind-blowing that it's it's like that.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean, so what can we do, Dr.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Keek?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I like you know, in terms of like self-uh just examinations, right?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like we always promote that for like, for example, breast cancer and whatnot, but like for this specific cancer, like what can we do as just consumers, you know, and patients to really make sure that we're taking care of ourselves and being vigilant, you know, to the early signs.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I I tell people that it's important if you for everyone to get checked by a dermatologist at least once a year.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_04: Now, unfortunately, in my experience, there are less patients of colors that come in for just a basic routine exam.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: And um it's it plays into the unfortunately the myth, you know, that myth that circulates around and that's perpetrated within the community community that you know, darker skin folks do not get skin cancer.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: We have a high prevalence of um chronic conditions like diabetes, and um people tend to have diabetic neuropathy where they can't feel their feet.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_04: And if they get a sore, it can turn into a long chronic wound.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_04: And if nobody's evaluating the sore, it could develop a squamous cell carcinoma.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's important that um we are when we take our old folks to the doctor who have diabetes to make sure that your feet are being checked, to make sure that somebody is examining them thoroughly at least once a year, um, making sure that if you have a scar, that it's being checked, if you have lupus, um, which tends to affect um um people of color more, that you know, those lupus lesions are being checked.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: And for any changes, whether it's in color, in size, anything that you know could potentially signal that something more sinister is going on, we need to be able to educate them about all these risk factors.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, yeah, no, I I am so glad that you're speaking on this.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I really, you know, I hope everyone listening, like you're you're really taking notes again because that this is so, so important.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea that the mortality rate was so much higher and that this is the situation because we again we don't talk about true brown skin health.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: We don't talk about it, and I don't know why, because like you know, this is so much validation for me, right?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: As a consumer, like just listening to you tell us about this, because I have always wondered, like, you know, you gotta you gotta look at skin as like, you know, like a fingerprint, like a blueprint for that's different for everybody.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know why our communities don't understand and acknowledge that is that no skin type is the same, you know, no person's skin is going to be the same as yours.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: And for you to just assume that everything's okay because you might be of a darker skin tone, that you're not gonna get cancer.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's total fallacy, you know what I mean?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's wrong.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm glad that you address that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I really hope that everyone listening like you do, you know, follow this advice and go and get checked out just to be safe, you know, better safe than sorry.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: So yes.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to ask you my next question is really about skincare again, you know.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just kind of circling back and um asking you, what do you think, like, you know, um, well, first I want to know like what your favorite skincare products are, but more importantly, like where do you think the world of OTC products and medical grade or prescription strength skincare is headed?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so what are some of my favorite skincare products first?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, my my staple skincare products um include sunscreen, which is it's really going to be the same category of um ingredients that we just talked about that are great for melanin-rich skin.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I practice what I preach, and that is sunscreen, antioxidants, prescription, retinoid, chemical exfoliance.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: So for sunscreen, I use the Unrivaled Sun Serum SPF by Venus Williams, the tennis superstar.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm happy that she created this particular sunscreen because it really blends well on darker skin tones.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_04: One of the main reasons why uh people with melanin-rich skin do not put wear sunscreen has to do with that horrible white cast that we often get.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_04: Again, you know, when we talk about um skin inclusivity, it's not only just um, you know, it's not a superficial thing.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_04: The beauty industry has to consciously take skin tones, the variety of skin tones out there in mind.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_04: And for a long time, we haven't had like so many options.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_04: One of them is the area of sunscreen where we just felt left out because a lot of the sunscreens that were available to us, the mineral ones, especially, white cast, white cast everywhere.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm happy that you know there's this product that I can use on my darker skin tone without worrying about you know how it makes me look, right?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: So um that's the the Venus Williams sunscreen, and then my antioxidant is a 20% vitamin C brightening syrup um with green tea and vitamin E again because it helps neutralize free radicals.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_04: And this one is by Ohm Skin Care, and then I use a 0.08 tretinoin at night because I have, like I said in the beginning, I have acne-prone skin, adult acne, and I often break out every now and then, and I have dark spots, and then lastly, I exfoliate twice a week.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_04: I use the soft reset alpha hydroxy acid exfoliating solution from summer Fridays so that I can stay ahead of my hyperpigmentation.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a summary of a few of the things that I use.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's really those are all great choices, and I'm going to be for everyone listening, I'm going to be um including this in the concept art, all of uh Dr.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Kikum's favorites.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: So uh don't worry.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm taking notes for you guys.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that's yeah, yeah.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: I I'm gonna um answer your other question, but before I jump into that, I wanted to just have a sense of what you use in your skincare.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: What do I use?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I'm very, you know, like it really depends on the day.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm definitely, I think, along the same lines as you in that, you know, SPF is a must um for me, Dr.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Nick.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Proud of you, proud of you.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I use that, I I completely resonate with what you said about the SPF and the white cast.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: So Dr.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Nichols has a sunscreen that works for me, like it's got like a nice like brown tint to it, so it doesn't give me a white cat.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I is really, really nice.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I use that, but then also it's really everything you said, you know, lots of antioxidants, like both like um topically, like vitamin E is one of my favorite ingredients of all time.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think even more than vitamin C.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I love it.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I really, really love it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I also love um like anything with uh like I'm a pro like a cannabinoid pathway person.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: So like I really love like the new um products coming out in that category.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I incorporate them a lot for the antioxidant potentials and then also the exfoliation, like you mentioned, you know, I do twice a week as well, you know.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm proud of you.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: You need to have a solid thing going on.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I try, I try, but thank you so much.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: That means a lot that you you agree with my routine.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I want to ask you like the second part of the question, which is you know, really like, so you know, in terms of like where we're headed, I mean, do you think that it's getting better, or do you think that we're getting like, you know, we're making enough headway in the OTC world, or do you think we need more like changes?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: So um I I like this question because it just you know puts me in this um reflective mode of what has happened in the industry post-pandemic.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think um the skincare industry it just became skincare on steroids, you know, a lot around the time of the pandemic, you know, there was this big shift from makeup to just the focus on skincare, and it exploded with lots of brands and skincare products that are being released almost on a weekly basis.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_04: So there are lots of players in the field, formulations are you know, being are very innovative, and um, it's been interesting to see the evolution.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: There are more effective OTC options of skincare products that I feel like as a dermatologist, we can rely on today than in in past years.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, same same goes for medical-grade skincare.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: They're now more accessible online.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_04: Before you you almost had to come only to the doctor's offices to be able to get the medical grade skincare, but you can find them just about everywhere online.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_04: Now, um, I don't think I've seen a seismic shift in prescription topical skincare options because, as you know, getting um medication on the market does not happen as fast compared with with cosmoceuticals.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot more regulations with that, but um, I think OTC and medical skin, um, skin medical grade skincare is more accessible today.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_04: There are more options for the consumers.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and um, you know, it is great for me and the consumers to have that option.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_04: However, I think prescription strength uh with higher active ingredients will always be in demand because there are those conditions where you just need something way stronger from your derm.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: So, but I do think there are there are a lot more innovative options on the market today.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I love that because I I you know agree with you.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And after all the brands I interviewed, sometimes I wonder, I'm like, how many times are you guys gonna recreate hyaluronic acid?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like how many different brands do we need to make hyaluronic acid?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I mean by skincare on steroids, the skincare industry on steroids.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: There is remixing, rematching, re-everything.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it's just I mean, it's frustrating too, you know, as consumers, because we're always looking for options.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, you know, you I think we just have to be smarter, you know, about like the ingredients and just we really understand them and what they're doing for us, rather than just saying, oh, that's a pretty bottle, you know, let me buy that.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I love what you said, you know.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: I I love what you said about the the future direction and where we're headed and what, you know, that we do need a little bit more improvement because um I think as consumers we also agree, you know, in the sense of like um for those of us who are always looking for better options, there's very limited, you know, um, things available.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm excited to see where this industry goes in that regard.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to ask you, um, now, you know, this is a totally kind of different topic, uh, so everyone kind of buckle in.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: But Botox, let's talk about Botox.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I think that it's something that I'm very I've never gotten it, by the way.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna preface with that.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: I've never gotten any Botox, but I want to know about, you know, um what you think a good age is to start Botox and your overall opinion about it.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so if we're starters, any listeners that um may not be familiar with how Botox works, Botox is um what we call a neuromodulator, and it's used to relax muscles um on the face that lead to fine lines and wrinkles.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's approved for patients 18 years and older.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: Now, most patients wait until wrinkles appear before seeking Botox treatments.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: However, most experts agree that um patients in their late 20s and 30s are a good age um for preventative Botox treatments.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: Now, since we can't ignore the economic component of um the procedure like Botox, because it is quite expensive.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're trying to get it routinely, then you need to be able to afford it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I tell my patients personally it's about when you can afford it, when you can afford to have it done.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't afford Botox myself until after graduating a dermatology residency.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_04: So it's always important to factor that in.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not a must.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_04: People are like, must I get it?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: I tell people it's not a must.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: You can get it for an occasion because Botox lasts like three to four months.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't like it, it doesn't last forever.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_04: If you love it, unfortunately, it doesn't last forever.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's why I tell you patience.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_04: So um if you practice good skincare, you know, if you take better care of your skin, you wear sun protection.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_04: You will not need as much Botox down the line compared to somebody that doesn't care for their skin or doesn't, you know, wear um sun protection.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and I love that you answered that.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, because I I see a lot of younger uh people in the Gen Z crowd, you know, now going crazy over Botox and this, you know, these injectable um options.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I always wonder, you know, what is there an age, you know, that we can start using Botox or not?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, you know, that's that's a question for you.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is there an age in your mind that you think is like an absolute cutoff?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to wait till this age, or do you think it it shouldn't matter?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: No, it it I don't have a cutoff.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like I said, it's approved, right?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: For 18 years or older.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I am the type of derm that feels people should have autonomy, right?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: About your on about your bodies and how they want to present themselves to the world.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_04: As a physician, I listen to everybody, yourself, um uh you know, what your your perspective on how they your of what your aesthetic needs should be.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_04: And my I think my disposition is to help them achieve your cosmetic goal, but without compromising your health or compromising um um them medically in any way, right?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_04: If if you if you can afford to do Botox, you want to do Botox, then it's up to you.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's no judgment here.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_04: But um, I just don't want young people to feel pressured.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a dermatologist, I can perform these cosmetic procedures, but I'm always always for telling people that they should do it at their own pace, right?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: They should do it at what seems appropriate for them.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: And that that's my take.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's that's solid, and that's you know, truly like in the spirit of good medicine, you know.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I love that you answered that because that you know it needs to be clarified.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: We we see a lot of misinformation, and that's why I asked you because there's so much, you know, it's so much misinformation out there, and I I feel like the youth gets so lost in all of it, if that you know, if that makes sense.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I think that you know, they get so swayed away by these like radical opinions, you know, that people have that might not even have a background in dermatology.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's very important that we put that out there.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for answering that.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now, my last question, um, Dr.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Kingham is really kind of more of a philosophical one, and in the sense of I really would love for you to give us some advice, some some of uh your wisdom about, you know, just for the young professionals out there, you know, whether they're in medicine or whatever, because I think that, you know, we need to be able to learn from the true experts.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember, you know, even when I was like before training even started, you know, I was always looking for mentorship from especially women and women of color, you know, and it was so difficult to find.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to give us some advice, some some wisdom for anyone aspiring to go into dermatology or even anything related to aesthetics.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, thanks for asking this question because I'm just reflecting about my journey, you know, in medicine and becoming a dermatologist.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um I I never had mentorship in the earlier part of my journey.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_04: I had mentorship much later than when I needed it the most.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: And um when today we have social media, I'm on social media and young girls from across the or all around the world, right?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_04: They can look at me now as brown skin derm and see me in a white coat.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_04: And that's one of the reasons why I wear my white coat on social media and say there's somebody there that looks like me and is a professional and is a dermatologist, right?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: But I didn't have that access, you know.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_04: Social media wasn't, it was just in its early age um when I started my journey.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I I didn't have that visibility of derms that are out there right now on social media.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I always tell people to not be afraid to reach out, you know, and ask for the mentorship.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_04: I struggled a lot, I made some um bad decisions.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um decisions that slowed me down that you know, if I had someone to talk to, if I had someone to talk to about, you know, different things that I was even going through in medicine about the process, it would have really, really served me well.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: But nonetheless, I'm here and I'm happy that now I do have so many people that I can reach out to.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: But I tell I tell people this it takes 12 years to become a dermatologist, right?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: Four years of undergraduate education, four years of college, one year of internship, three years of dermatology um residency.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: Needless to say, the journey to become a doctor, as you know, is it's a long one.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_04: Now you have very long.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I tell people if I had thought about it too much, I don't know if I would have made a different, taken a different path.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_04: But you have to be relentless and build character to deal with the adversity that comes with pursuing this journey.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, dermatology is a competitive field in medicine to get into, one of the most competitive fields in medicine to get into.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I did not match the first time.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_04: I had to reapply.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_04: So be ready for that.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: There are a lot of brilliant people also applying.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_04: And if you don't make it the first time, it doesn't mean you're not good enough.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: Applies to other fields in medicine.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Now, seek mentorship, like I already mentioned, volunteer, take a job as a medical assistant in a Durham office or in whatever office that you are interested in, whether is you know you're interested in surgery, pediatrics, always be in that environment to learn and cultivate that those relationships.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: Reach out to people who are doing research studies in your area of interest, attend national conferences, local conferences, contribute to papers, and more importantly, do not give up on yourself in medicine.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_04: If this is your path, you have to be relentless.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I love that.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's so real, and I I couldn't agree with you more.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that across the, I love what you said, you know, across the board, it's like this, and I completely agree with you.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, even when I was trying to get into gen search, you know, I remember there was one black female doctor, and she was the most badass doctor I'd ever seen in my life.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: And she was so on point with everything you said, she was also saying in her own way, and she was like, You need to just work your butt off, girl.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like she literally told me that.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, just keep going.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: But she was literally, it was like everything you're saying, except for the gen surge side.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, you know, she's like, I can't tell you how many people were rooting for me to fail, you know.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like it's like a real thing.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I love everything you said, and I completely resonate with it.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and for any, you know, and everyone listening out there, like, really take Dr.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: Keekham's advice to heart because it is a hard field, it is a hard, like, you know, career path, especially for women, and it's very, very competitive.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I love you know all the advice you gave.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: I I love that you mentioned that because uh, you know, about you know, the people that are uh not rooting for you.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_04: There's so many people that are going to make you feel like you don't belong, especially in places where they're not traditionally used to seeing people that look like you.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_04: And you you have to always re remind yourself that you are worthy of being there because I felt that way so many times.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: There are only three percent of black derms in the entire country, right?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: So every time I was interviewing a program, um, I would look at the roster and not see even one person that looked like me.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_04: And it's easy to think and feel like you do not belong there, but you have to, you know, learn how to self-motivate like yourself.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_04: And for for the many people that are rooting against you, you have your family, your core group of friends, and um people that you're inspiring by merely being there.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_04: So you have to rely on that support.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: I was the first um doctor in my family.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_04: There are a lot of times I'll call my mom to talk about things I was going through, and she would really not understand anything I was saying, but she was just like a supportive mother and always reminded me that she is praying for me.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_04: And now I can say that there are other younger cousins and nieces that want to do medicine, and I'm in a better position to offer that help.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: And one day you are going to be in that position to be, you know, your your trailblazer in wherever you're going to, and you're going to be able to look back and say, You did it for a whole community, your family, and all those that love you.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, you're almost like I almost teared up here listening to you talk.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's so true.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's such a real struggle, I feel like, for women of color.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact that, you know, you are here to represent us and be that trailblazer.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't tell you how big of a fan I am of you and everything you do.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: So this has been, I mean, truly, truly an honor to host you.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, for everyone, everyone listening out there, I would love if you guys just you know listen to Dr.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: Kikum's advice on every single question I've asked.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is probably one of my favorite, if not my favorite term interviews I've ever done.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um thank you for building such an amazing platform.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I just want to give you your flowers because I know it's hard work and um you are doing it.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: That means the world coming from you.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: And for everyone listening, please give us, you know, share your comments, your questions.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you have any um additional, you know, just comments or any kind of um, you know, queries, please send them our way.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: We will definitely connect with Dr.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: Kekum's team.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if we can get you some answers, we will do our very best.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I really encourage all of you out there, you know, be proactive.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, follow the advice you've gotten here on this podcast and and take care of yourself, you know, and and never give up, you know, like Dr.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Keekum said.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much, and I will be back next time.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 49:12
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• 49:17
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• 50:11
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• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.