Latest / Skin Anarchy / Elyse Koenig, founder of Elyse Koenig Beauty & Wellness Consulting

Transcript

Elyse Koenig, founder of Elyse Koenig Beauty & Wellness Consulting · Skin Anarchy

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
0:01
SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta, and I'm super stoked for our guest today because I have gotten have the privilege to become friends with her over time and I really look up to her and she's very, very much an inspiration.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Elise Koenig, who is the founder of Elise Koenig Beauty and Wellness Consulting.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: So welcome, welcome to the show, Elise.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to be doing this.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: It's been such a pleasure to get to know you since really the very beginning of you starting this great podcast.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so inspired by how much you've grown this and the incredible people you've had on.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: So I'm honored to be on.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: The honor is truly mine, and I couldn't have done it without all the support and the encouragement you've shown me.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Like I just want to let everybody know out there, like Elise has like always been like, you know, just really, really supportive.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: And I it means the world.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: So, but I want to get started.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: I want to get started, Elise.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk about your background and your whole journey in this industry because I know you have just a wealth of knowledge to share and so much experience.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: So can you get us started by like just the beginning of how you got into beauty?
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: I can give you a bit of my elevator pitch, but it actually goes back even further to before my career started.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: I one time got to review a lip gloss for Cosmo Girl, which is no longer around, but I was so stoked because I grew up loving beauty.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: I used to make my mom go to the stores and buy the little soaps in different shapes, and I had little manicure sets from HM.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: And I just loved, I was the girl who had like the easy bake oven, but also the creepy crawler.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: But then I loved across the board.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I just loved beauty growing up.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: And I remember trying to decide what I wanted to do with my career.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: I thought I actually wanted to be a journalist, but when I was in school, we had to decide um, do you want to go into PR advertising magazines or newspapers?
1:55
SPEAKER_01: And I learned about PR and I and they also only took 75 kids and I was very competitive.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I'm gonna go this track.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I went to PR and uh when I graduated two weeks later, I left Georgia and went to New York City with 11 interviews and um ended up taking a job at LaForce.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: And I was it used to be LaForce and Stevens, so I was Leslie Stevens' assistant, and I happened to sit next to the beauty team because they did fashion, lifestyle, everything.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: So I was sitting next to the beauty team, they became my best friends, and it just felt like such a natural fit when I transitioned off of that first role.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that must have been really cool.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know it was that competitive.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: What you just meant, like only 74 students admitted.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, so in at the University of Georgia, which has um a great journalism school, it's called the Grady College of Journalism, PR, at least, you know, back in the day, I've been doing this for almost 15 years.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, but back in the day, yeah, they would only let you um take 75 kids because it was a very um all-encompassing class.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we had to do all of these case studies and we would do nonprofit work and build PR campaigns.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was, I just wanted to get in.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: I thought it would be the best choice, but you couldn't change.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: So once you made that choice, when you're 19 years old, you can't change.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that reminds me of like the European schooling system.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: You know how like they have tracts, like once you get in, that's it.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: But how do you know yourself when you're 19?
3:26
SPEAKER_01: So luckily, I have been able to find, I still love to write.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, so now I get to work with all of the editors, but I get to write pitches, right?
3:34
SPEAKER_01: I still get to come up with the press kits for my clients.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: And luckily, I've actually transitioned for some of my brands.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: I help them even create packaging copy, and it's more all-encompassing for what I handle for my clients versus just okay, here's the product, go pitch.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: So I work all of those loves into one.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: But beauty is definitely the heart and soul of my business.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I have had people come to me for all types of other, I mean, I love animals and pets.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: And so I've thought about do I do, you know, working for best friends, animal society.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: I remember seeing a PR job was open there.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think I'd rather do that for like my volunteer job and then work in beauty for PR because it's just something where the day today, I also think it would break my heart working with rescue.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know, that's the worst part, right?
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Like you've just seen the little faces.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: You want to save them all.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: You want to save them all.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but for beauty, it's become just a really inspiring industry, especially now that it's not all legacy brands, you know, it's all of these indies.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: And I really hit the timing by accident, but I hit it perfectly when I moved from New York to LA.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'll back up just a bit about you know, my career path in general, because it it serves the rest of the story.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: But I was out in the forest for a few years.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: That's where I really learned how to be in PR.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: And I remember uh one of my old bosses, those girls are still my best friends.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: And looking at a status report, and she was like, Well, this isn't capitalized, and this is.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: I remember being so frustrated, and yet now I do the exact same thing to my team because it matters.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I really learned the details from um from that team.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: So I'm very grateful for that experience.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: And then I moved on to Alice and Broad Public Relations, which is now Alice and Broad um Marketing Communications, so ABMC.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: And I laugh that if you went to the school of Alice and Broad, uh, you can really do PR for any shooting company.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: It's it was such a fantastic experience.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: And I also have best friends from that agency.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I really every time I go back to New York, I say, okay, can I have a LaForce girls dinner?
5:45
SPEAKER_01: And then can I do an Allison Broad girls dinner?
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, I always try to go see the office because you know there's a million fashion and beauty brands everywhere, and it's all just lovely, smart, fabulous women.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: So I am excited to hopefully get back to New York soon.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: It's been a good 14 months.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: My last time on an airplane was leaving desk side, launching a new brand in February of 2020.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I have not been on the plane since.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually getting on one tomorrow.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: Now that I'm fully vaxxed, I'm going to visit my parents in Atlanta for the first time in a year and a half.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, but I digress.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: We'll get into desk sides later, I'm sure.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that's amazing though, that you've had like, I mean, you've you've had experiences, but you've maintained these amazing, like female entrepreneur like relationships.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, is because you know, I feel like when when women work together, they either hit it off or it's like no go.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, for me, like I've I've had a very hard time holding on to like good female relationships in terms of my career.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I really commend you for that.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: I think that's really powerful.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: The beauty, thank you, of being a publicist is A, I can talk to a brick wall.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, so but B, relationships are our business, you know, so editorial relationships, but also, and I learned this from my grandfather about being kind to everyone because you never know where it's gonna lead.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: My very first intern, actually, the girl that trained me at LaForce, because she was interning as an interim position until I was hired.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: She hired me for a subcontracting position when I first started my own business.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: So it pays to just be kind to everybody and to, you know, do your best always, because you really just never know.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I try to be that.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: I I really enjoy being a mentor for people.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm always very open for them to come to me because I've had that as well.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: And I have also learned from having some people in my career who haven't been awesome.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, I will not name names, but that's where I have learned who I don't want to be.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's helped solidify my relationships with the good people who I do want to maintain.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's how I've gotten all my business, really.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: All of my business is referral-based.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't pitch brands.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Everything has come from friends in this industry.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's I love that.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, that shows, you know, it's the thing about being genuine, right?
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Elise, it's like, you know, I the some of the brands, like I know when we first connected, like some of the brands you were representing, I was just like, oh my gosh, like these are like phenomenal brands.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: And like I feel like everything you kind of go into, you have like there's so much like like depth there.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
8:30
SPEAKER_00: It's not just like empty brands, it's like like real everyone listening out there, like they're always representing like the best.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: Like it's great.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you notice that because it's really something I've toyed with my uh tagline because it was female founded entrepreneurial beauty brands, because it just that's what I fell into when I started my own business.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: But now that's kind of not enough anymore, right?
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, because luckily there's so many amazing female founders out there.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: So then I've been toying with do I say brands with heart, do I say mission-driven brands?
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Because I love that you notice that, because that's a very, very important key factor in how I build out my agency's portfolio.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to just be saying, you need to look better with this lipstick.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, that's not.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: I want to be supporting people, to be making them feel good inside and out.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I want to work with people who I like and the founders that I work with.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: I would happily go for a drink with any of them.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, they are all just so incredible and they all do, they have depth to their stories.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: They've all overcome something, they've all found a hole in the market.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Um just they inspire me to want to do my best for them.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: I have certainly over the years worked on brands, uh, not in my own agency, but other places where I'm like, I am not motivated to help you end up selling products because you are not kind.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it makes a difference.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: No, I love that you said that.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: I really love because you know what?
10:04
SPEAKER_00: That's what we need more of.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, in this industry, I like you either have like really genuine brands, from what I've noticed at least, you know, and I have nowhere near the amount of experience you do.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, you either have really genuine brands or you have people who are just trying to like, you know, get on that bandwagon and just create something that's gonna make them money.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, with all of that like hyper unpackaging and like, you know, just whatever, it's really hard.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: It must be hard, right?
10:29
SPEAKER_00: Like sifting through like this like plethora of like companies and then figuring out if you want to be able to, you know, if you want to represent one or not.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: It is.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: It is also hard turning down things, saying no to things that don't feel right in my heart or in my gut.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, look, I obviously am trying to build a business and I've got a team, and um, but I just feel like if you say yes to everything, you're gonna be all over the place.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: I would rather really have a curated selection of brands that I'm interested in and that, you know, if I would buy it, if I'm interested in the story, then I know the editors will and therefore consumers will.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, if I'm trying to pitch something around, uh, but why is this special?
11:12
SPEAKER_01: Then that's just gonna make everybody's job harder.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think, and I want to actually, you know, um lead this into talking about um, you know, when you were really getting into like finding like your own first set of clients that you wanted to work with, you know, like what were some of like the guiding principles for you?
11:30
SPEAKER_00: Like I know that you touched upon like being genuine and really, you know, being able to connect with them, but in the beauty space, were you like focused on like a niche in the industry, or was it just something that, you know, as they came, you just uh you know analyzed?
11:44
SPEAKER_01: Really the latter, as they came, I analyzed.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think once I started to build a bigger portfolio, more brands came.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: So I was able to be a bit more discerning.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Of course, at first you are like, okay, great, I'll take this, but luckily I was just able to get some really awesome brands from the get.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: And it's because it was people who referred the brands to me.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: So I don't have friends who are gonna refer me crappy brands.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: No, that's a good point.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: No, that's a good point.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: But also, I want to circle back just to sort of the latter half of my career before I started my own thing because I think it informs if anybody's listening who's wanting to maybe branch out on their own.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sort of the skill sets um that I think helped me to be prepared to have my own agency.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was obviously working at these incredible huge New York agencies, right?
12:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, LaForce and Allison Broad are just incredible.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: And so working across small and big brands, I mean, I was handling L'Oreal Paris celebrity and philanthropy initiatives.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: That's how I started coming out to Los Angeles frequently.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: I had never even been to California until I was in my late 20s, so not to age myself, but um, so I was coming out here for that, but I had also worked on skincare, hair care, men's grooming, fitness, subscription boxes, stuff at Fashion Week.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: So I had really learned every side of the beauty industry.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And then when I moved out to Los Angeles, Allison actually introduced me to Two Face Cosmetics.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: They were looking for um their first ever in-house PR director.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: So I took that job and I was going to Singapore and Malaysia and London and Paris, and it was really an incredible.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Jared, the founder there, is just so creative.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, sadly, I say that's the job that got away because I just moved to West Hollywood and they're down in Irvine.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if anyone knows the California LA landscape.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's like a wake up at 5 a.m.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: and drive for two hours of traffic.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: And I almost recovered the flights to Singapore over having to do that drive multiple times.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: So that's I ended up then uh being recruited by people who were who used to be at one of my agencies in New York.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: They had a fashion agency, a bi coastal fashion agency, and they were developing a beauty and wellness division.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: So I came in to handle that.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And all of the clients were coming based on my experience.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Granted, we had the breadth of the agency to help support, right?
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Which is a wonderful thing to have.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: But it was coming from my connections and me selling myself as the head of this beauty team.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so after a while, I thought, I should just do this for myself.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, like, here's the thing, like, right?
14:33
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, when you see so much, you know, and like you said, going back to your point about seeing every aspect of the industry, when you've seen that, it's almost like you start seeing like the white spaces start emerging.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but like it starts, you know, I think in any industry, you once you have seen and tasted every side of it, it's like easy to figure out, well, what's missing?
14:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, and so I learned the things that I was going to be strong at, and I knew where I felt like I maybe would have changed some things at different agencies or how I wanted to build something.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I have no desire.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, don't 100% quote me, but I have no desire to build some massive legacy agency.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: I think that that model is shifting because there are so many indie brands.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: There is now space for everybody from the solopreneur who that's what I was for three years.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: I was just me, myself, and I handling everything from what I used to do as an account coordinator at the age of 22 up until you know having my own agency.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: So that was certainly different, not having as much as those clients were coming for me at the last agency, they I also had assistants and other people to handle things.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: So once I'm out on my own, it was like, oh wow, this is a lot.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it's like a it's like a storm of stuff.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: I I can totally understand that.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, one thing I want to ask you though, Elise is like, you know, when you were going through with before you even started the agency, like, you know, what were some things that you noticed that you did not like um that were happening in the industry?
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, I know that you don't have to name any names, but like, or anything like that, you know, but like are there some experiences that you might have seen that you were like, you know what, I do not agree with this.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: And this is something I'm not gonna do when I have my own business.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, how certain people treat their underlings, if you will.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, you need to, like I was saying at the beginning of this, you need to be kind to everyone.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, treated differently by different people.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: I had some wonderful mentors.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: When I look back, I have mostly positive experiences that said, I have certainly cried in a closet and not let anybody know.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: So um, unfortunately, I think in PR, it can be tough.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: And so what I really wanted was to develop something where nobody was going to feel like that.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I've ever made anybody cry.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: And they're listening, and I have, please let me know so I can make amends.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Um my gosh.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: I remember when I told people that I was moving to LA, some of my assistants at the time, that's when they teared up.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: And I've never been so touched, and I've kept in touch with them.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: And some of them have their own agencies now too.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: And I am so, so proud of them.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you know um Danielle Alvarez of the Bonito Project, but I'm gonna have to introduce you to her.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: We used to work together and she started her own agency focusing on uh Latina beauty, which is a market that's absolutely um not being tapped into enough.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, side note, but that's who you need to talk to next because she's fabulous.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: But so there were just things that I saw more vibes.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to have a happy vibe, and I wanted to pick out clients who were going to listen to me and respect me and um know that I know what I'm doing.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I have had mostly clients now.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: I know after almost five years of doing this on my own, I have a gut sense.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, granted, I have still pitched for some business where I'm like, oh, do I really want this?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: But maybe it's a cool name or a decent retainer, right?
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Where I'm like, okay, I need to still go for this business.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: The majority of the time it does not work out.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: And there have been times I've been a smidge hurt, like, hey, I put an effort for this.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Then often I see where the brand did go, and I'm like, oh, that makes sense.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Like there was a certain brand where I really thought I was getting it.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: And then they went to a competitor, but I was like, oh no, I get it.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: I totally get why they went with her.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: Um and most of my competition, my biggest competition in this industry, those are the people who are my best friends.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: That's who we refer business to each other.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: If one of us is just too full, we're like, oh, you should talk to this person instead.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: So um there's this incredible group called In Common, which was started by uh Lindsay Tilburger, who has RHEL communications, and she created this group of people who are individual or small boutique agencies to all pull together because that is one hard thing when you go off on your own.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have those resources, you you're not spending the thousands of dollars a month on certain tools that big agencies utilize, you know, like messenger services, incision.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: I participate in the scission share, that's a database, but it's expensive.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so she pulled all of us together, and it has been an incredible resource.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: And yet we all basically are up for all of the exact same accounts.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Like I tell you, if you're a new brand, I'm sure you're talking to X, Y, N Z, and me.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's you know, to me, that's the that's the most interesting part, right?
19:51
SPEAKER_00: For about beauty, especially since this I started this podcast, is like discovering who the people were in the background.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: Like I had no idea how much work goes into PR.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm not even gonna lie to you.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Like when I first you know what I mean?
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Like I had no clue.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: And then I know like you and I were like one of the, you know, it was one of the first connections I made.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, when I realizing how much work and like, you know, how much dedication goes into it, I was like, holy crap, like they're really like, you know, you earn every cent that you charge your clients because honestly, like I couldn't do it.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: It's such a fast-paced lifestyle, I feel like.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's been such an eye-opening experience, is what I'm really trying to say.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, one of the biggest things for me is educating my clients.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: I find that if whilst we're in the call and contract process, I really need to lay it down.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I say it with love.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: I've actually prefaced things before.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, said with love to a client.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: But I am very uh forthright and I tell it like it is because I never want someone, somebody to be surprised or to be disappointed.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And PR, it it's hard, especially in a very saturated market.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, beauty has boomed and it's challenging.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: It's not like it used to be, where you just send one cool mailer and because you're friends with a director at a magazine, you get in.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just not the same.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, budgets are different, especially if you're working with indies, and it is, it's hard.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: There's a reason why PR is typically listed in the top five most stressful jobs next to like brain surgeon every year.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was um, I heard that, you know, I heard that too, that it's extremely stressful.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: And you know, one of the one of the biggest things I think I I one of my biggest questions is how do you deal with a client that is not taking like direction?
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Like have you had like what has your experience been with that?
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Because I I can imagine how frustrating that would be, you know, if you know a direction that somebody should be going in, but they're just like not willing to like budge.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, hence how do you do like having my own agency because I'm just saying Bye-bye.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Screw it.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it's only happened.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at the handful.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, well, not handful.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: We've actually had a decent amount of clients over the past five years, but we have a lot of longevity, which is really important to me.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: I want to help brands grow.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, that said, a lot of times you end up losing them just simply because of budget.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: It's just PR and communications tend to be one of the first things cut.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: If something does need to be cut, which it really shouldn't be.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it should be the first thing kept.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: You can figure out the other stuff.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, what the public thinks about you.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: That makes it crazy.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: It's really crazy.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: We um made it through COVID fairly unscathed.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm like knocking on wood.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, we actually had a very good year, my team and I did.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, I know some other industries really took it hard because beauty was still a lot of times essential uh things that people need.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you still have and hand soap.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, hello, my brand who had hand soap was crushing it.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've only back to your question, I've only had one or two brands where it just started to shift.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: And I fought for it.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Man, did I fight for it because I'm not a quitter.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it usually becomes a mutual decision of just this isn't the right fit anymore.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, one time it was a sampling issue.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: They just didn't want to send samples.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, how are we going to get coverage?
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Dude, I seriously deal with this every day, Elise.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, seriously.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm for everyone listening out there, like something like getting samples from a brand should not be that difficult.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, so I hear you.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even and I'm trying to be very conservative with people's money.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to make a small run, especially if you're a new brand.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: So you make a small run and then you have to make packaging and then you have to ship it.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, I want to work with brands that are sustainable.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times those things are a lot more expensive to make sure you're using all of the pieces that are going to, you know, disintegrate, yada yada.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it is that's frustrating.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: And I've had some long-standing brands where after a couple of years, it's I've done the best that I can do, and it's, you know, spread your wings and fly.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think you have to let go at one point too.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, you can only brand build up to a point, I'm guessing, right?
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, oftentimes people will jump to a new agency and then they get their low-hanging fruit.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: And then after a couple of years, the same thing happens because you just need to have new breadth and something, and that's okay.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: And but that was a hard lesson for me to learn now that I'm looking back on that.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, the first time it happened to me, and it was my choice to step away.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: But I, it was a loss.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: It felt like a breakup because I was so proud of the effort that I had put behind this brand and what I had done for them that um I was scared to let go.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: It was almost like, yeah, exactly, a breakup, like being scared to like go for like an ex-boyfriend or something, you know, and see what else was out there.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: But I really believe in trusting your gut and an energy.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: And I swear my business doubled when I let go of that.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: That's like, you know, I really believe in like things come as they they're supposed to.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, when you're genuine and you approach things with that, you know, genuine feeling and and motive, it's all gonna come together at the end, you know, in the way it should.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad that I'm glad that everything worked out.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, definitely all the success you've had is more than well deserved.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's you know, I I remember like, you know, now even I look back, you know, all the people I've spoken to since skincare anarchy kind of like took off a little bit, you know.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: I always go back to like, for example, you and I really connected, and there's been this handful of people I've connected with, whereas others, it's like, what are you guys doing?
25:54
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
25:55
SPEAKER_00: So I wonder that.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what are you doing?
25:57
SPEAKER_00: And do you even believe in what you're pitching to me?
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think you even know, you know, and it's like like that's what I mean when I say like there's a huge difference there.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a lot of brands that are just kind of on this bandwagon of, you know, what whatever buzzword is the buzzword of the day, sustainability or clean, or you know what I mean?
26:14
SPEAKER_00: And it's like you can tell, you can tell.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: And and one of the reasons you can tell is their PR team.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm trying to say, really.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Is you know, if your PR team doesn't believe in you too, like it comes across when they're they pitch you.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: So you know, yeah, yeah.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: Even you know, it's via email, so you wouldn't think that that would be the thing, but it's true.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: If you're not fully diving into your brand's ethos and really caring about their messaging, um, I make my brands as if they were my own.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I really invest in them.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to see them succeed because I mean, hey, if they succeed, that means I'm succeeding too, right?
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Um again, going back to the referrals.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, I have clients who are former clients also who send me stuff.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: So um it really it's funny that you're saying this though, because I was talking to another publicist about we were we're doing something together and we're getting some of these emails, and we were like, oof, like this is rough.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: Like if someone on my team sent this, I would be very unhappy.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we never get to see it from that side.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: I just know what I do, I know what my team does.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: I've obviously seen some pitches from my friends, but it's funny because I'm so hard on myself.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: That's if someone could teach me how to not be hard on myself, please.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: I would I would really appreciate it.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: But I really beat myself up if I feel like we're not doing, you know, A plus performance.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: And yet I see some of these other things out there.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: And even hearing you say that, I'm like, all right, girl, you need to be nicer to yourself because you are doing something right.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: And absolutely, yeah.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: You are.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: No, you are at least.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean that.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: Like honestly, like you know, like I said, you know, I you can really tell that when people care and when they don't care.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: And I've never like I've never known that more than running this podcast.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Because after, you know, you and I connected, and you know, like I said, there I've just met so many people, and it's like, really, I don't even want to work with you because the vibe you're sending me through this email is very like lackadaisical, you know what I mean?
28:10
SPEAKER_00: But like you don't care.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: So um moving on though, I want to move on a little bit to another question I have, which is really advice for indie brands that you might have.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, I know there's a lot of really genuine entrepreneurs out there right now that have a very small brand in either beauty or wellness, and you know, they don't know where to start.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, I've had brands come to me and say, Ecta, do you know how to like reach editors or do you know how to like and I'm like, dude, I don't know, but I do know that there's a lot of PR teams out there that know exactly what to do.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: So, you know what I'm saying?
28:41
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm asking like if you have any starting advice for these brands and these entrepreneurs, like where they can start with first of all, kudos to you because I remember our first conversation, and you were already doing this, so I just encourage you to do it more.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: You were already reaching out to editors to be on this podcast, and that's how if you can find some way to make them feel good to make it a mutually beneficial situation, because who doesn't want to share their story, right?
29:08
SPEAKER_01: So you are getting out and about because then obviously they were sharing it on their social media to other editors, and um, so some sort of collaboration if you you know know people and you're able to provide some value to them too.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: I will say this is a hard question because obviously the publicist in me is like find a good publicist.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: Um I understand that budgets can be hard.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, there are though publicists for every budget now.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: And there are, especially after COVID, when some of these big agencies had a lot of layoffs, there are a lot of mid-level publicists, some even junior, um, who are out there.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: I actually wish there were more because on my team, we just brought on two new hires today, actually.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: I just had our our call, and um there was thank you.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: No, it's great.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: And I don't have full-time girls, so I work all with um subcontractors and freelancers.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: And the reason I've chosen to make my business model this way is because we all know different people and we're all different ages and we all have different types of backgrounds.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: And what helps with that is there are so many editors and so many freelancers now.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Like a 25-year-old does not want to have dinner with me.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: They just I'm too old for us at this point.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Me neither, at least, don't worry.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I want to make sure that I have a whole breadth of people on my team so that you know, my my new team member who is around that age, she can do that.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: But so there, but there are people out there who can work with different budgets.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe you hire before you're ready.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: I actually just did that.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: I was only looking for one person, but I had two candidates that I thought were awesome.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know what, Elise?
30:55
SPEAKER_01: Just I I heard this on the podcast, uh, Rachel Rogers, who is amazing.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: She's got the Hello Seven Club.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: Her book just launched, you know, we should all be millionaires.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: She's looking to make every woman a millionaire.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: So who doesn't want to follow that?
31:09
SPEAKER_01: Um but her advice was hire before you're ready.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I went with these two candidates because I know that if they can take some of the pressure off of me to be doing everything for everybody, um, that I can focus on where my strengths lie, which is new business.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: I love the sales side of things.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: I love meeting brand founders, I love advising my clients, talking to them about big picture, you know, pipeline, what they're working on.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: I love mentoring my team.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I do still love pitching.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's there's no greater rush than getting an incredible feature and winning a beauty award and something that you have worked on.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: But I also don't necessarily have the time to be doing that constantly and still growing an agency.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: So um I think if brands can just find a way to find the right person.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and some other publicists might tell you, like, oh, well, when you're starting out, you know, DM them on Instagram.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: And I like cringe at that, even though I have heard editors say that.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: I have heard editors say, if you are a brand founder, DM me on Instagram.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: I love finding the up-and-coming things.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: And yet there's editors who will talk out of the exact opposite side of their mouth, which is please don't do that.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Please don't have the appropriate channels because I can't even tell you how many times there are brands they just don't have it together.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: And I've seen you know, small brands who have come to me where maybe they don't quite have the budget uh that I need to work with my team.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, oh, well, we we've already written the materials, you just have to send them.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: And they send me the materials and like, yeah.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, wait a minute.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: So you need someone I feel very strongly about, even though it's just a few hours a week, I don't know, someone to tweak your materials, someone to uh it just hire a publicist.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I really, really want to like second that because I think, you know, for me, I I don't even know what it's like running like a skincare line, but I can imagine how difficult that would be in terms of like reaching people and not just people, but like the right demographic.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: I think there's definitely a reason why PR exists, and there's a re reason why you know peer firms exist.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think we should all be utilizing that if we're really serious about what we're creating, you know what I mean?
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And then that's that's really what it comes down to is like how serious are you about your business?
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Because for me, I I can tell you, you know, I would never cut that would not be the first thing I cut as my PR.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: There's no way I would be like, Are you like, why would I ever do that?
33:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because how the hell am I gonna get my name out?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: There's no other way, you know what I mean?
33:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the main thing, and that's yeah.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: So I I love that you especially sorry, I keep interrupting you.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm just excited.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: No, me too.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Me too, me too.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: We keep interrupting some I know, I but you know what you would be.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: I think I told you this actually on our first call that you would be a good publicist because you really hustle and you are reaching out to people.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: And so, see, we're doing the same thing where we just have so much to talk about.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, I love that.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: What a compliment.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: No, but I honestly I couldn't do it, at least.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you guys are a different, you know, group of people.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: I really have so much admiration for your work and you know the the real the genuine hustle that goes behind it.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: And I just want to say, everyone listening, get a PR, get a publicist.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Like genuinely, if you want to grow your brand, I think it's a it's a smart thing to do, you know.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it pays off in the end, really.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm trying to say.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: Like that's where your investment is, is being able to get your name out there.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And having patience.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, look, we all want to pitch and then two weeks later get a feature in the New York Times, right?
34:43
SPEAKER_01: So at the same time, it can take patience and it can take time.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Press begets pressed, things slowly roll.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Editors are reading what other editors are writing about.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: That's why it's important to have samples and be more open.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, again, you never know where someone's going to end up.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: So just because someone's working at an outlet where maybe you don't think it's cool enough for you, maybe they're going to end up at a be all end-all, you know, in two months.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: And so it it you really have to be kind and open um to all of these different editors.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: But you know, it is an investment, whereas I think people look at and it's a hard thing to put an ROI on.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: And I am a numbers nerd.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: I really enjoy math.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm in the creative field.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm very detailed oriented, which I think does help in PR in some ways, but I um it pains me that there aren't better metrics to prove our worth.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: But there are so many times when someone bought something because of PR, but it wasn't a direct click through from that story because it takes what, is it 13 now, where a customer has to see something 13 times in order to it, it's range.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: I feel it used to be like 18, then it was like seven.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: So I'm going with 13, but you know, we can figure out the exact stuff later.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: But it really is, they have to see it probably on an Instagram ad, but then they have to read it in their favorite magazine.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: They have to read it on their favorite.com, hopefully see it on a TV show.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe some influencers are posting about it, people who they trust.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there's not always a direct link to sales.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: PR is not a tool to just have sales.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: And so I've seen some brands, they have limited resources, they really want to put it behind Instagram ads and things where it's a direct correlation.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: If I spend$100 on this, I end up selling$400.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And it's very the moment you turn off that flow, the moment you stop investing that$100, that$400 goes away.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: With PR, you are able to build cachet, you are able to get your name out there and build SEO.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the more online articles you're on, when people search for you, you're gonna pop up more.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's just a deeper experience around it versus just a pay-to-play click.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: No, I can imagine.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: I can imagine all the intricacies, and you know, they're just things we don't know about.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why, you know, professionals exist in every industry.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: So we should definitely utilize that.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: But Elise, I want to thank you so much.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: This has been an amazing conversation.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: I've always learned so much from you, and I always continue to learn from you.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's, you know, it's so great to have you talk to our listeners.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: And I hope everyone out there, you guys got a lot of you know, knowledge and wisdom.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: But I'm gonna definitely ask you to come back because I would love to make this like a monthly thing if we can.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, that would be really fun.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: I feel like you could get listener questions, you know, from some brand founders.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: Although I'm sure the brand founders that you're talking to already are probably have some PR or um well, not all of them though, Elise.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, like I'm really sometimes shocked because some brands are just very, very they're new and they're not they're not going for PR yet.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, well, that's fine.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: I'll reach out to them directly.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
38:00
SPEAKER_00: So I hope that everyone listening, all of you new brand founders, all entrepreneurs, yeah.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: I hope you guys learned something.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: And if you have any feedback for us, leave it on the concept art for this episode.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: If you have any questions for Elise, I will pass them along to her team.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, and thank you so much for your time.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: This was wonderful.
38:17
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
38:21
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