Latest / 100% Maybe / Ep. 54 - Hebrews: Keep Your Eyes Fixed on Jesus

Transcript

Ep. 54 - Hebrews: Keep Your Eyes Fixed on Jesus · 100% Maybe

0:00
SPEAKER_03: Well, we're finished up Hebrews, man.
0:03
SPEAKER_03: It's hard to believe.
0:05
SPEAKER_03: We almost made it.
0:06
SPEAKER_03: We have it there's been a lot.
0:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
0:09
SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna go ahead and peel back the curtain.
0:11
SPEAKER_03: This is episode number two of the day for me.
0:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:14
SPEAKER_03: It's good for it.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: We had Kat in the off in the chair there this morning.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: So there's still the residual wisdom here.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: She's the smartest one on the team.
0:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
0:24
SPEAKER_03: All my wisdom is gone though.
0:26
SPEAKER_03: This is it's it was this morning.
0:28
SPEAKER_03: So you're just a shell of yourself?
0:30
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
0:31
SPEAKER_03: We'll see.
0:32
SPEAKER_03: It's just just a lot of chapters to dive into in one day for me.
0:36
SPEAKER_03: Here'll be fine.
0:37
SPEAKER_03: Ours are easy, but these last three?
0:40
SPEAKER_02: No problem.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you got something.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: You just haven't seen my question list.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: Is that an AI question list you've got there?
0:49
SPEAKER_02: No.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Or is that Brian?
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Did Brian give you that list?
0:51
SPEAKER_02: No.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: That Joker asked the very best questions.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: I know.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: He should be AI.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: He should get paid from AI to formulate questions.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: Can you do that?
1:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
1:00
SPEAKER_03: I think I'll teach AI.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: Can you teach AI stuff?
1:04
SPEAKER_03: I think so.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:05
SPEAKER_03: Well, we're doing this a little early than our normal schedule because you've got planning and fishing and planning and working and scheduling out next year, which I'm excited about.
1:16
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:17
SPEAKER_03: Um, because this probably happened sometime last year on that trip to sketch out the ideas of what this was gonna be.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: We laid out that we would be going through Hebrews this time of the year.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah we're gonna be laying it out what we'll be doing next year.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: And I've already got a bunch of stuff on the board.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: That will be good.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, this has been awesome, man.
1:38
SPEAKER_03: I have loved a deep dive in it as much as I've even loved Hebrews already coming into it.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: I've just learned a lot, taken away a lot, have seen it in a whole new light.
1:51
SPEAKER_03: So it's been it's been awesome.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: As even as a preacher, I have a very basic knowledge about most of the books of the Bible, except for the ones that we've studied.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: And Hebrews was one of those.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: It's always kind of held a place where I'm like, oh, it's a lot.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: But you know, when you start just trudging through it and you take time and you do all the things you need to do, it's a lot, but it's nothing to be afraid of.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's been really insightful and helpful.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: Most important part, if you're gonna ask me, is that you have to understand the context of who the letter's written to.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: If you get that in your mind, then you realize this person's not writing to you, although he is.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: Um you just have to back into what that person's mind would have been reconciling, and then then it'll then the information starts to flow for you.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: It has a lot of it has a different meaning for sure.
2:40
SPEAKER_03: I think Kat and I might have even talked about that about how you wouldn't necessarily understand a lot of this at all, and not knowing the system of worship it doesn't hit as hard for the fulfillment of what Jesus has done.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: But it is really interesting then to go back and really put those pieces into place and realize oh wow, this is a lot bigger deal.
3:08
unknown: Yeah.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I um uh Brian, and I don't know what you guys may have talked about in the podcast today.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: Brian asked the question, did can't get into that with you?
3:15
SPEAKER_02: No.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: So Brian asked the question in the middle of our Bible study.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: He goes, So if if the Levitical, not if if if the Mosaic law was not gonna perfect anything, why waste their time?
3:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, and I went, that's a great question, right?
3:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, why have us do all of that?
3:35
SPEAKER_02: Why not us?
3:36
SPEAKER_02: Why, why the Jewish nation go through all of the sacrifices, all the bloodshed, all the things to then come out with a better covenant through Christ that doesn't require those things because he was the one sacrificed.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: And we had a great conversation about it.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I you know, and the and the funny thing is we wouldn't have understood if we didn't have all that.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: We still don't understand.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're still idiots when it comes to a lot of this stuff.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: We s we have Jesus and we still don't get it.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, but Paul calls Paul says that the law was a school teacher, um, was a taskmaster that taught us how to understand.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: So we would not have fully understood the sacrifice of Christ without that system or the knowledge of that system.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: So here we are.
4:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, is there something to you of that about how years you just appreciate things more the year the as the years go on?
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: I I think so.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh well, the example I used in return was Lincoln logs.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: Dude, I could rock some Lincoln logs as a kid.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: I built lots of great things.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: I that was the foundation of learning what it meant to build something, and then later on, you know I'm a house builder, I'm not.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: But it it does, it does something that allows you to understand the greater concepts.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: So if the law was that, it gave us that foundation to understand um maybe Jesus.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: I know I've tortured a lot of people by leaving them out.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: You step on one of those things, you'll exercise words you've not heard in a long time.
5:03
SPEAKER_03: Not as bad as Legos.
5:04
SPEAKER_03: Legos are yeah, Legos are a new form of torture.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my kids are.
5:08
SPEAKER_03: The modern modern day.
5:09
SPEAKER_03: Um okay, so we're gonna close it out this week.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: Uh last week we did eight, nine, and ten, which is a lot.
5:17
SPEAKER_03: And this week we have eleven, twelve, and thirteen, which is a lot in a different way.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:22
SPEAKER_03: The faith chapter.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Tell me about it.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: Totally understand it differently.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: In context.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: How about that, people?
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Um I've always looked at it as in, oh, this is really about awesome faith.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: And it is, but in context, the writer of Hebrews just retells the story of the people of God.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: That's all he does.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: But and and I think the main overarching point is and it's lost if you just read it by itself.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: But the main overarching point is these people did these things, and they never got to see the thing.
5:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he does get to that point.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: So, like, it all builds to the fact that Abraham did this, Moses did this, Rahab did this, and they never got a chance to see Jesus, but they still did it.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: So, like, it's the formulation of by faith they accomplished or did or leaned into all of this stuff.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: We look at it today as we do a grab bag of just talking about faith.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: He's talking about them as the foundation of what we believe in.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we might have missed this chapter a little bit.
6:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:28
SPEAKER_03: Like over over time.
6:31
SPEAKER_03: Oh, like completely misused it.
6:33
SPEAKER_03: Right.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: That's what I think.
6:35
SPEAKER_03: Because you get you get a beautiful definition of what faith actually is, because that, you know, that's a topic of conversation.
6:42
SPEAKER_03: The confidence that what we hope for will actually happen.
6:44
SPEAKER_03: So it's rooted in not a lack of evidence, but a uh rooting a believing of something that's not not yet seen, but hoped for.
6:55
SPEAKER_03: But almost even that that root word of faith, did you have you looked into the any of that yet?
7:00
SPEAKER_03: No about that.
7:01
SPEAKER_03: So that's actually the word where we would get martyr from.
7:04
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
7:04
SPEAKER_03: It's that root.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: So it's more that testify or bear witness to.
7:08
SPEAKER_03: So it's almost reading instead of elevating all these people as to like, hey, look at these heroes of the faith, look how awesome they are.
7:15
SPEAKER_03: It's almost reading like their faith was what God was pleased by.
7:21
SPEAKER_03: And so they're a testament to, you know, God's understanding of of how we please him through faith.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
7:29
SPEAKER_03: It's not, it's not really looking at them, it's a testament to God um understanding and dealing with them and and and counting them by their faith.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: It's almost like a testimony of of his.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me let me rephrase this and see if we're saying the same thing.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Because I don't know that they are.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: I I just in my reading today, I think of faith as the thread that connects those stories, not so much the things they did, right?
7:56
SPEAKER_02: Because it uh because uh Abel, you know, in the offering, it wasn't about the offering, it was about the faith.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: So the faith is what connected him to that greater story, not that crazy offering that he offered.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: So what I love about this is when we get into our own stories, because that that's the continuation is the is the moving on.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: We get into the continuation of our own stories, it's not about the accomplishments or the things that we're able to do in this life or the things that we even believe.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: It's the it's the faith that we have that strings it together that continues the the greater story going forward.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: Right, because it's the bearing witness to what God has done.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
8:32
SPEAKER_03: Versus like we can we'll come and go.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: We know that.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: All these people have come and gone.
8:36
SPEAKER_03: Some have done great things, and then we see some not so much.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what does he say?
8:41
SPEAKER_02: He says by faith, uh, verse three of chapter 11, by faith we understand that the worlds we pr the worlds were prepared by the word of God so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just a it's a belief, it's just a belief and a faith and a trust that God is the one that orchestrated and put it all together.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: And so therefore, all of the things, those are those are um an outflow of of our faith.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:13
SPEAKER_03: Where is the so verse six, it is impossible to please God without faith.
9:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I got that highlighted too.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: Tell me about that one.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: It's what it is.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: That's it, huh?
9:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I you know, the the writer of Hebrews loves the word impossible, uses it multiple times.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: It's impossible to to please God.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: What was the first one if you've if you served him and then turn around and walked away?
9:33
SPEAKER_02: It's um there's no sacrifice that could be done for you.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: It's impossible.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: So I think there's a little bit of h hyperbole there, but that's that's actually probably the most accurate one.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't believe in God, how are you gonna please God?
9:44
SPEAKER_02: Um so it's makes sense.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: Makes sense on its on the face value.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh to you, is there anything simplified?
9:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: I'll go I'll go a step further.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Are you ready?
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, how how much of a deviation for the writer of Hebrews is this chapter from the rest?
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Because the rest are so detailed.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: They're about sacrifices and high priests and covenants and all of that.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: And then it comes to belief.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: Right?
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Like the rest of it, when there's such an intellectual ascent to try and understand everything that the writer of Hebrews is saying, almost as if we got to do something about it.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: When really he's just saying, okay, I just want you to explain, I want you to understand all of the things spiritually that Christ did that you see in the natural, he reconciled all those things.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Faith.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about faith, which is good for us.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think in uh whatever it was, now it'll be two weeks ago.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh, when we when we had the conversation about put the key in the car, turn the car on.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: You may not understand a gas combustible engine, combustion combustion engine, but um, but you do know how to turn it on and and for the most part steer the new fluffy steering wheel uh to where you're going.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: But that's that faith that activate everything in chapters one through ten.
11:10
SPEAKER_03: Do you say it's good for us because this is actually the relevant piece to us today versus the old system of sacrificial worship?
11:18
SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't be so quick to say the other isn't relevant.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: I would say that it is uh um more relatable.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, applicable.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Applicable.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: This is what we're gonna put in action.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:31
SPEAKER_03: So is that all do the first 10 chapters all lead us into the practicality of this is who Jesus is, so live live like this is all true.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Um once again, I think it's uh doing surgery is hard.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: So when you go home, you want to rehab your shoulder, right?
11:53
SPEAKER_02: So let me take care of the surgery.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is these are all the things that happen to get to this point.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: So you can do your best to understand them so that maybe you can appreciate them and maybe it'll inform your faith.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: But and we're gonna read about it in a little bit when he gets to the therefore.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: Um they're therefore.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: And it puts us into action.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: That's actually true, chapter 13.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: Show hospitality to strangers.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: Don't forget those people that are in prison.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it makes it very, very oi, it's such a contrast from what we've been reading.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Practical.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: 1113.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: It kind of blows up that prosperity gospel version of Christianity, doesn't it?
12:35
SPEAKER_02: All of these died in faith without having received the promises, but from a distance they saw and greeted them.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, your prosperity gospel people would say, but we're on this side.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: Different.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't count.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: I would not, I would not say that.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: I still so were the disciples, and and the gospel got every single one of them horribly killed.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:59
SPEAKER_03: Well, let's just pull on that thread a little bit more.
13:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: Because he gives you some awesome, awesome examples.
13:07
SPEAKER_03: We all want that.
13:08
SPEAKER_03: And he takes a time, kind of like he does a couple other times when he's like, I'd say more, but you wouldn't understand.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: Or he's like, milk, there's so much more, but I don't have time to tell you all that.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: Now he's gonna say, How much more do I need to say?
13:22
SPEAKER_03: It would take too long, and then he's gonna kind of still go into what he wants to say.
13:26
SPEAKER_03: He paraphrases it, you know, even though he's like, I was gonna say this, and he still says it.
13:31
SPEAKER_03: But you get the awesome stories of the faithful David Samuel the overthrow, kingdoms ruled with justice, raging fire, seed swords, shut the mouth of lions, quenched flames of fire, escaped death.
13:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
13:45
SPEAKER_03: But then there were others, tortured, refusing to turn from God to be set free, some were jeered at, their backs cut open, others were chained in prison, some died by stoning, some were sawed in half, others killed with the sword.
14:01
SPEAKER_03: They were too good for this world.
14:04
SPEAKER_03: So you have the same faith, very different outcomes here.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: Yet all these, though they were commended for their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better so that they would not without us be made perfect.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know what so, um which once again is don't go back to that sacrificial system.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's what the writer Hebrews is saying to the to the uh first century Jewish person.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: Why?
14:40
SPEAKER_02: When all of that led to this point of understanding Christ and faith, why would you dare want to go back to what they had to endure so that you could feel or see that and be a part of the promise?
14:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: When you sit with people or counsel people, is there a parallel?
14:56
SPEAKER_03: We're not running back to an old sacrificial system of worship.
14:59
SPEAKER_03: What are the things that hold our heart that were just so uh hard to to leave?
15:07
SPEAKER_02: And it's a and it's a question that has to be asked because we do have a sacrificial system.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: It's ourselves.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we are so bent on proving earning being, and that's not it.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have convinced ourselves that it's about us being righteous.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: And the problem is when we actually think that we are, right?
15:28
SPEAKER_02: Like we are that we are good enough or whatever.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we don't have a sacrificial system, but we do, and it's us because we're so holy.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: It's wrong.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: It's just dead wrong.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: So I I do think just like that person, it's just shifted, it's not as easy to see.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Um stop it.
15:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh you and the writer, same thing.
15:52
SPEAKER_03: Same thing.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: Stop it.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: Don't do it.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: Quit doing that.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: Don't do that thing.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, man.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: I know that you probably didn't expect that answer, but I I do think I do think we just go back.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: That's our that's our fallback, our default is that we love to make it about ourselves, even in like I my issue is a false humility.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: I probably, I mean, I'll own that.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, just the ability to m look or be or sound humble or whatever.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm just as much a jerk as anybody else on this planet.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the root of all of our problem, right?
16:27
SPEAKER_02: Pride.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: Our pride in putting ourselves first.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: So faith, faith has to be the thread that runs through all of it.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: It's not about the things that we do, it's about our belief in him, which maybe sounds a little bit similar, but it's our belief in the things that he can do through us.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: Maybe?
16:43
SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's a good way to put that.
16:44
SPEAKER_03: Or that he's done for us.
16:45
SPEAKER_03: Or he's done for us, yeah.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: That we have rat rest.
16:48
SPEAKER_03: Let's talk a little bit about discipline.
16:51
SPEAKER_03: Because let's say another great thing.
16:53
SPEAKER_03: I'm uh, you know, I'm a child, I'm resting, I'm good, but that does not necessarily mean we won't face some testing and some discipline.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, chapter 12 then goes to uh, yeah, hey, you know, if you don't get beat, you don't are you're not loved.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and I'm I should not say that.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: That's not that's probably not a good thing to say.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, but that it does that the way that chapter 12 turns, it says, endure trials for the sake of discipline.
17:19
SPEAKER_02: God is treating you as children, for what child is there whom a parent does not discipline?
17:24
SPEAKER_02: I've met a lot of children that have not been disciplined.
17:27
SPEAKER_03: Um he's not saying it's a good thing, though.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: It does happen.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: When uh oh no, nope, I'm gonna leave that one off the podcast.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: Verse 8.
17:35
SPEAKER_03: I didn't even have to edit.
17:36
SPEAKER_03: You edited yourself.
17:37
SPEAKER_03: I self-edited.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: You see that discipline?
17:40
SPEAKER_02: That was I was practicing that discipline.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: If you do not have that discipline in which all children share, then you are illegitimate and not his children.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: So I there's a part of us, not a part.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is this is that transformation piece.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: This is God loves you as you are, but you have to lead your heart.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: You there are things you stop at the things you need to stop doing.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: That's that's the discipline.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: That is so counter-cultural to where we are today.
18:14
SPEAKER_03: You think just because of culture will tell you just do whatever makes you happy.
18:20
SPEAKER_03: And then there are moments within the faith where you have to check your heart against that.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: I think I think culture this probably can be sorted out over time, but I think culture is gonna be determined by self or a collective self.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: So the United States of America, whether we like it or not, is a collection of our ideology.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: And so when you hear people say it's a post-Christian nation, it is.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's different.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: So, like the ideology of what we believe, people are doing whatever they want to do.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: And it's and it's back to the root of I'm gonna follow wherever my heart goes versus I'm going to lead my heart in the direction that God has instructed or given or given shape to.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: That's it, that's a different different world to live in.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you don't have to do that.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: You can do whatever you want to do, but let's make but you can't call it Christianity.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: Some people do.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: It wouldn't it wouldn't be Christianity.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, anything else you want to say there about discipline and twelve?
19:28
SPEAKER_02: I think if if it's the writer, if the writer is encouraging, uh on as far as the discipline goes, um, you get to verse 12.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: He says, Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees and make straight paths for your feet so that what is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's the encouragement to just, yep, you're you're going through some struggles, it's tough, you're learning some things, suck it up, buttercup, and let's go.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: And that's not to be trite, because the book is not about that.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: I I mean, the book just listed a ton of people and martyrs and their backs being opened and recognizes and and gives um credence to to the the things we're feeling.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: So there are some, I guess there would be something self-inflicted, but there are some there's divine discipline that happens sometimes too.
20:26
SPEAKER_03: But done out of love and done out of a care of our hearts and what happens to us and the choices we make, and ultimately maybe the people that we can reach.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: So that, you know, we're counted as those in in chapter 11 as the faith who speaks to the testimony of what God has done.
20:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: Ultimately.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: I I mean I it doesn't surprise me that it gets into discipline.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean, so the and it wouldn't surprise me that the rhetoric Hebrews would be that way.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: So coming from a st because they're constantly trying to shock but boy, it is a it's a heavy lean, isn't it?
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Coming out of a works righteousness situation into a faith system and now encouraging people to be willing to go through the work.
21:07
SPEAKER_03: Well, because is that is that the danger of okay, it's all been done, so now what I do doesn't matter anymore.
21:19
SPEAKER_03: Is that is that the side to where then the correction is like, hey, it does matter, like your choices still matter.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: You can still Yeah, it it's a it's an interesting microcosm, and I'm I might be saying that wrong, but because in Paul's writings, man, sometimes people took that grace and they just ran with it.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: And Peter would say, Hey, cut that out right back there, Scott.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: Stop, stop doing those things.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: It's not a it's not something that you can just uh uh run rampant on.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: Redder Hebrews is clearly strong about that too.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: Um so you know It's still that self.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: There's still something in us that we want we want to serve self.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: You just it just has to be informed.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: by theology because it does look like they're saying both things and trying to hold both things.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: Where I'm at is is uh you know grace is grace.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: You can't take away grace.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: And if you choose to if you choose to be dumb, you gotta be tough.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: Because you're gonna deal with it.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean that's a that's a I've got a good friend that that's his favorite saying is if you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: If you're gonna if you're gonna be a person that's relying heavily on grace and you're making dumb decisions, you will reap the benefits of the the non-benefits, the consequences of that in your life.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: This is why the writer of Hebrews and every person that's ever lived into faith would say be willing to do the work because the benefit of being able to see that grace not just in your own life but to bear fruit in the lives of your family, your neighborhood, your communities um that's where you see that.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: Here the stories, man, the faith stories.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob uh uh there were some of them in here where uh the act the that Abel's was uh his was more acceptable than Cain's right so there's some shade thrown right on the front side but but there's there's a reason there's a purpose there.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah anyway so I that's that's what I think chapter twelve is is uh pick your head up and um and it matters.
23:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean that's not trying it's matters it's hard work and uh there's a the kingdom the kingdom is for kingdom's sake.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: Right and the reflection of our lives matter because it's who we're reflecting people to or to other people.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: He just spent a whole chapter going through every you know story of the faith and then some he wants to tell you more but he's like how I don't have that much time.
23:43
SPEAKER_03: The point is that all points to a greater picture a greater grace a greater understanding of what this sacrifice meant for all of those things and our lives are no different if we if we choose to that path and and um we're a reflection of that grace too.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: What we do matters maybe that's right.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: Well 13 concluding words put that plane on the ground buddy this feels kind of proverbsy you know just gonna throw some some uh after kind of getting on them about discipline yeah let's throw some softballs out there yeah just some nice little reminders you know mutual love continue don't forget to show hospitality to strangers yeah remember those who were in prison he didn't say what to do with them he said remember them just remember them oh it says as though you were in prison with them how about you how about this one obey your spiritual leaders and do what they say yeah how about that yeah that's gotten into people in a lot honor marriage judge fornicators and adulterers so he's still pretty hard there yeah yep I mean I uh that that little phrase in between and I haven't written down the scripture reference before it's not a little phrase I'm sure it's a quote the Lord is my helper I will not be afraid uh why uh what what can anyone do to me you have the reference for that anywhere I haven't written it down yet but no which which verse uh in uh verse six so we can say with confidence and then he gives us that phrase the Lord is my helper I will not be afraid what can anyone do to me it reminds me of Saturday Live.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: I think uh Deuteronomy Okay Deuteronomy yeah it reminds me of Saturday Live people like me Mr.
25:21
SPEAKER_03: Affirmation was it's good enough I'm smart enough that's right on it people people like me Stuart Smalley Stuart Smalley The Lord is my helper I will not be afraid what can anyone do to me it's good because you're good enough write that down when yeah because of God yeah so these are good you know good reminders some good good nuggets in here you you wonder I wonder how long it takes took the writer Hebrews to write this I bet he did it one sitting pretty quickly you think so I do I think he had I think he's thought about all this for a long time and when he sat down to do it boy he was ready for rolled it out we had there were conversations all over the place every now and then there's the we it went it was a plurality of conversation in the in the text um which made it feel like there were multiple people that were writing it.
26:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah a few we's in us yeah so I you know you wonder that came up yeah in one of my groups and I think just that collective right of the of the early church and early believers and just getting together and saying what's the challenge?
26:28
SPEAKER_02: What are we looking at?
26:29
SPEAKER_02: Okay let's explain this through the sacrificial system and we we you know we want you to be able to I mean so like those thoughts are all through this I think I forget when the study was we did last but um there's a we.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah the um community of faith it is a community of faith the thought was that in some instances there's there's a belief that that the writer of Hebrews is talking about the nation of so as opposed to a personal um when you get down to the um in in cat cat's cat's sermon on uh uh eight nine and ten is that right eight nine and ten that there's some we's in there that probably have to do with thinking about the nation and what God is gonna do all uh with the with the spirit and the transformation.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: But but anyway just I'm just talking um well as we close I did want to I think we we kind of we didn't mention it when we talked 12 but there's there's a question about um when he says since we're surrounded by this these witnesses let us strip off every weight that slows us down especially the sin that trips us up and then you might think okay well how do I do that?
27:44
SPEAKER_03: And luckily he's gonna tell us we do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus the champion who initiates and perfects or the author and perfecter of our faith.
27:54
SPEAKER_03: Um which to me is such a keystone I think truth to hold on to from all those things when you're looking at discipline and you know uh witnesses of faith and all these things that that we aspire to to do.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: Um you know what are what are some things maybe for us that aren't necessarily sinful but slow us down from running that race God's called us to because I know that's very near and dear to to what we hold true here about connecting you to Jesus so that you can um maybe greater understand the purpose he has for for each life.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: Life um minutia um I don't know man there's a there's a billion things that aren't necessarily evil but uh that just get in the way of us being able to experience it.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: You know I I it's so hard man as a as a preacher the one thing that I it's not that I regret but you lose your eyes.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: You you you it's a fresh perspective on sometimes on what people are truly struggling with.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: Um not that I'm not struggling with some of the very same things because I go home we have to do the some of the same challenges we have but I live in this world where we talk scripture all day long.
29:10
SPEAKER_02: So what's it like to to go into the corporate world and to have kids that are still in high school or elementary school and to pick them up and to go to sports and you know we make decisions at the church where we're thinking man why are why do people go do this?
29:23
SPEAKER_02: Why aren't they more in church?
29:25
SPEAKER_02: And they're like that's a lot of Jesus um and I and I get all that stuff.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: So what is it that that would be better if we were to get our eyes on Jesus I think from my preacher perspective what I've tried to do is and there's some work for us to do as a church and some work for the for the body of Christ or the leaders in the body of Christ to make uh to make the knowledge and the faith that we're talking about something that is is more distilla for people to actuate in their life a beautiful a beautiful early church I don't know why I say it that way but when you think of the early church they just figured out how to integrate God into all the things they're doing.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: They still had the same rhythms so they'd still go to worship they'd still what their temple or prayer or those things but then they ate together they spent time together they had some expectation around the working through scripture um which means they there were other things they didn't do.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: With your phone in your hands you know in bed with the TV going and a phone in your hand and the iPad on your and it so I think minutia that might be my first thought and that could I recognize that could just be me.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: About you you got some thoughts uh well yes to that for sure um may and probably it it goes back to what we said earlier is self I think that's the biggest barrier we have to all of it ourselves.
31:09
SPEAKER_03: Um I think there's a real if you don't have any margin and you're just running running running I think it's really hard to to reflect it's really hard to to set your heart onto things because you're just trying to get through it versus really be able to live into it, you know, or embrace it.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: I know the older I get the the more I'm stopping and taking intentional time to just reflect and be grateful for things, you know um had a daughter turn 16 this week and that had all me all in the feels you know about just we printed out all these pictures of her whole life you know put on the wall and you just see those moments and they're attached to these memories and you just realize gosh this time goes by quickly.
31:58
SPEAKER_03: And um I don't know I think if you don't if you don't ever make that a practice to stop and be grateful for you you do lose some of these things that are attached your heart is attached to this greater story.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: You know and there are times where I think you're maybe in a better space to see it and there are times where you can't really think about it.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: I got other things I'm I'm focused on.
32:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:22
SPEAKER_03: But I I think the life God has for us is really a life of reflection.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: I mean his people have always been a people of remembrance and they wanted to you know make monuments so that we don't forget because what do we do?
32:33
SPEAKER_03: We forget we'll absolutely always forget.
32:36
SPEAKER_03: So we have to actually make the practice things about how we'll be able to remember.
32:41
SPEAKER_03: And uh I think those are those are intentional steps you have to take that that uh I think lead you into a a better understanding.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: The topic about monuments is so so okay you just absolutely lit a firecracker for me.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: Oh I was listening to a podcast from a a friend who's um doing some work and that it was around the idea of schemas and how how we create schemas based on experience and our mind and not this is this is my vernac vernacular I don't know that it's right but just like AI has has pods that it quickly draws from to get a fast answer to whatever.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: So our mind we formulate these feelings and emotions based on our experience that are the first things that we draw from so if something happens and maybe you've been betrayed in your past and you formed a schema around that immediately somebody says hey I'm just I'm gonna cancel tonight you immediately go oh my gosh I'm gonna be betrayed.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: It's your first response.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: So then you have to take that thing and you have to sort through it.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: Is this that or is that something else?
33:42
SPEAKER_02: And so then I wonder about those schemas can they be reshaped?
33:46
SPEAKER_02: Can they be reformed?
33:48
SPEAKER_02: And then what role does faith have I'm sure faith informs them and can reshape them but then you take and you add the idea of monuments because it is uniquely something different.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: That is a thing that is outside of maybe this that that but it informs this.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: So what all throughout Old Testament scripture they would set up stones all around Israel.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean God knows how many times you'll be driving you'll see a pile of stones and and it might just be a pile of stones but it could also have been set there by the 12 tribes to remind them of X.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: So I I same same sort of thing you you know uh because Sammy I share a birthday and my mom shared a birthday so with this being first year my mom's passed we get together and we Nate's birthday is not long after that and Micah's husband's birthday is is the 22nd so we just we put them all on one day.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: And man we we all of the feels were there because of mom and because of us and you know man getting to spend some awesome time with dad and and so I wonder how you retrain the gratitude you know there's hurt you miss somebody but man I'm looking at them all and they're all doing so good and there's just this immense feeling of gratitude and my mom's fingers are all over all of that.
35:01
SPEAKER_02: So uh the retraining of a moment that's that's taught us to think one way to see it in a different way.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: So when you get to Hebrews what we see as a sacrifice which is a horrible thing we learn to hold it as a beautiful thing discipline.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: It's tough it hurts but it's so important for us to you know actuate that in our lives for the benefit.
35:29
SPEAKER_03: So yeah I don't know it's all that's all it's in there it's in the brain somewhere rattling around Hebrews man we did it we did it we did it I don't know if we did it well but we did it I think we did well okay I think we deserve a milkshake I'm not gonna get one but I think we deserve one I was just gonna hold that somewhere someday I'll cash that in on myself up I earned one you're like this is for Hebrews it's good go get yourself a milkshake everybody that's it because uh unless you're lactose intolerant yeah don't do that cool something else get a I don't know have some water yeah have a flavored water have a soda well it's been awesome dude I'm so glad we did it I think uh our hundred percent maybe numbers are way up so people have loved it I think tracking along with it for sure um so we were ready yeah the per well and the purpose of the podcast was to help broaden the conversation for those who not aren't are struggling with the topic but to give you more insight.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: So maybe the podcast helped if if it did let us know send up a flare.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah send Jeff an email send me an email send him a milkshake something like that I like strawberry.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: Strawberry strawberry okay chocolate guy okay all right guys well that'll do it for Hebrews but uh join us Sunday as we close out uh fifth week and final series uh final sermon message of Hebrews creator what we got next man what's coming second and third John bang bang bang first second third john read good and read all of first joint that's weeks one and two three weeks first three weeks we're gonna do uh half of first John and then we're gonna do the second half of first john and then bang bang on second and three love and life is his two favorite phrases on it blitz three then we're into Thanksgiving and Christmas and all those things love you guys love y'all see ya