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Last minute nursing home eligibility · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: How are you today?
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I am great. Thank you what you have for us
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: this week.
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  Speaker 3: Couple of cases We're going to head over to Wisconsin.
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  Speaker 3: We got an a pellid court case they are dealing
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  Speaker 3: with a really ambiguously drafted caretaker agreement. Very strange. You
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  Speaker 3: don't get a lot of caretaker agreement cases. But we're
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  Speaker 3: going to learn other things about this case that not
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  Speaker 3: just the caretaker agreement part. But yeah, that's a very
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  Speaker 3: strange situation. And then we're going to go back to
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  Speaker 3: New Jersey and got an appellid court case. They are
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  Speaker 3: dealing with a Medicaid lien and a state lien and
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  Speaker 3: how these liens work. So we're going to learn not
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  Speaker 3: only about which one might have priority, but how and
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  Speaker 3: why there might be a lifetime lean versus an at
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  Speaker 3: death lien and how that might play at play out,
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  Speaker 3: especially if you have a life estate. So lots of
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  Speaker 3: things to think about in the estate recovery world. But
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  Speaker 3: when we're talking about Medicaid liens, folks, that's what this
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  Speaker 3: guide is all about in a sense, because it's dealing
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  Speaker 3: with last minute Medicaid eligibility. And obviously there could be
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  Speaker 3: liens placed on things that you have in your own
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  Speaker 3: name when you get sick, But remember a Medicaid leen
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  Speaker 3: might be your friend, because as long as you can
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  Speaker 3: get on Medicaid and be at the lower rate that
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  Speaker 3: might be better than paying the higher rate. This guide
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  Speaker 3: gives you tips on how to treat all your assets,
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: and they're treated differently whether you're married or single, and
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: the different assets are treated differently, like a house versus
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  Speaker 3: a rental property versus a four h one K or
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  Speaker 3: a life insurance policy. Learn how these assets can be
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  Speaker 3: countable or non countable last minute, How you can protect
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  Speaker 3: them last minute or at least slow the medicaid eligibility
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  Speaker 3: or at least slow the financial bleeding of these assets.
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  Speaker 3: Don't just write the check. Get the guide eight six
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  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine to nine or
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  Speaker 3: legal exchange show dot com Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility Techniques
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  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine to
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  Speaker 3: nine or legal exchange Show dot com Wisconsin so here.
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  Speaker 3: On April twenty sixteen, Dan and Milton entered into a
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  Speaker 3: personal care contract. Dan promised to provide care to Milton
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  Speaker 3: for the balance of his life. Stay with me on
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  Speaker 3: these facts. Milton promised to pay a one time upfront
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  Speaker 3: payment of one hundred and ninety one thousand dollars for this,
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  Speaker 3: but it's considered to be a gift by both parties.
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  Speaker 3: That's strange Milton also promised to update his estate planning documents,
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  Speaker 3: so his trust transferred title to the home to Dan.
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  Speaker 3: The agreement stated that these promises were made out of
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  Speaker 3: love and affection. Very strange language for a personal care contract.
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  Speaker 3: Either party could unilaterally terminate the agreement with sixty days notice. Wow,
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  Speaker 3: another big red flag. So on May sixth, twenty sixteen,
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  Speaker 3: Dan moved to wiscons collected his one hundred and ninety
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  Speaker 3: one thousand dollars yep from Milton, and Milton updated his
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  Speaker 3: revocable trust to give title to the home to Dan.
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  Speaker 3: So far sounds like they're doing what they said yep.
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  Speaker 3: July twenty sixteen, which, by the way, is like too much.
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  Speaker 3: Months later, Dan decides to terminate the contract. Surprise, and
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  Speaker 3: he stopped providing care sixty days later.
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  Speaker 2: What about one hundred and ninety one thousand dollars?
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  Speaker 3: Oh no, he collected his one hundred and ninety one
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  Speaker 3: thousand dollars. You were allowed to unilatterally terminate the contract
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  Speaker 3: anytime it said in there, didn't it? That was what
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  Speaker 3: the agreement said. Oh shocker. So on September twenty sixteen,
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  Speaker 3: Dan amended his trust to remove Dan as a beneficiary.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah seems fair. So on September twenty twenty two, yep,
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  Speaker 3: many years later, Milton died. Dan, who hasn't apparently forgotten,
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  Speaker 3: files a claim for summary judgment to enforce the promise
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  Speaker 3: to get the ho.
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  Speaker 2: That's crazy, oh is it so?
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  Speaker 3: The yes, it is.
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  Speaker 2: I declare it to be crazy.
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  Speaker 3: He's telling you can't make this up. The estate then
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  Speaker 3: argued that it's not enforceable. It's not an enforceable promise
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  Speaker 3: to make a future gift. The trial court granted the
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  Speaker 3: summary judgment for the estate, stating it was a gift
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  Speaker 3: and not in consideration of future caretaking services. The house.
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  Speaker 3: The house. That's what he's arguing here, that he wants
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  Speaker 3: the house. And so again, if you go back and
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  Speaker 3: read this, it says these are made out of love
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  Speaker 3: and affection. They were treated while the one hundred and
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  Speaker 3: ninety one was considered to be a gift by both parties. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: but maybe not the house.
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  Speaker 1: Well.
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  Speaker 3: Needless to say, Dan didn't like that result, so he appealed.
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  Speaker 3: On appeal, the appellate court reversed and said you got
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  Speaker 3: to remand this this is a summary judgment. So they
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  Speaker 3: said you need to remand this case.
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  Speaker 2: But what you've done what I tell you about not
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  Speaker 2: giving us any answers in these cases.
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  Speaker 3: So they say we're going to reverse and remand the
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  Speaker 3: case because the contract itself is not clear as to
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  Speaker 3: whether the house was to be a gift or whether
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  Speaker 3: the house was to be provided in consideration of future services.
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  Speaker 3: If you go back and look, it said the one
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  Speaker 3: ninety one is a gift by both parties. It was
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  Speaker 3: silent as to what the house was, so you got
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  Speaker 3: to go. So all this means is that it doesn't
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  Speaker 3: pass summary judgment muster, you got to go litigate this.
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  Speaker 3: So the appellate court didn't say, Dan, you're going to win.
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  Speaker 3: It said go back and litigate this because we're really
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  Speaker 3: not clear on what that meant. I think ultimately it's
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  Speaker 3: all tied to providing services. I think you're going to
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  Speaker 3: get there, but I think you just have to litigate it.
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  Speaker 2: Dan.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, right, what a crazy situation.
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  Speaker 2: That is crazy.
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  Speaker 3: Clearly it's poorly drafted from the get go. Absolutely, But
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  Speaker 3: I just want to look at this not from the
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  Speaker 3: case case perspective as to who's gonna win or not.
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  Speaker 3: I want to look at this as a from a
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  Speaker 3: Medicaid perspective, How would this work from Medicaid? The issue
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  Speaker 3: here was whether or not they provided the services and
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  Speaker 3: whether they get their money. This has nothing to do
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  Speaker 3: with Medicaid, but we need to know because we use
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  Speaker 3: personal care contracts, as you'll see in the guide this month,
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  Speaker 3: dealing with personal care contracts so that we can transfer
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  Speaker 3: money and not have the money transferred to a family
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  Speaker 3: member be treated as a gift, otherwise known as a
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  Speaker 3: disqualifying transfer, creating a five year waiting period for Medicaid eligibility.
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  Speaker 2: Right, because you told us in a prior show you
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  Speaker 2: couldn't do a lump sum payment for past services, so
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  Speaker 2: can you do a lumpsum payment for future services?
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  Speaker 3: So that's where we're headed. So let's look at how
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  Speaker 3: this would be perspective, how this would look from a
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  Speaker 3: Medicaid perspective. Right. So, again, as we know many, many,
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  Speaker 3: many people more and more are providing care for people
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  Speaker 3: at home, and of course they should get paid for
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  Speaker 3: it if they're providing the care, and that can be
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  Speaker 3: done to protect assets from the nursing home without a
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  Speaker 3: five year waiting period. But you got to follow the rules,
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  Speaker 3: like what a lumpsum payment there's cases both ways. You
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  Speaker 3: can't pay a lump sum backwards, that's for sure. Going forward,
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  Speaker 3: they really don't allow it. You got to pay as
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  Speaker 3: you go, so more as a pay as you go.
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  Speaker 3: So you got problem number one with this contract being
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  Speaker 3: a lump sum contract. Number two the contract itself, and
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  Speaker 3: I don't know if they did this here, but the
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  Speaker 3: one we're talking about, better state the terms and the payment.
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  Speaker 3: How much are you getting paid? Is it hourly? Are
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  Speaker 3: you getting paid twice a month, once a month, weekly?
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  Speaker 3: How does it work? It needs to say how long
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  Speaker 3: you're going to be providing the care, and it needs
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  Speaker 3: to indicate what kind of care you're providing. Be as
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  Speaker 3: detailed as you possibly can in this contract. Now, it
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  Speaker 3: does need to be a contract, right in order to
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  Speaker 3: convert this from being done for love and affection. Notice
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  Speaker 3: here they actually use the words these were I think
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  Speaker 3: they said something like the parties said that this is
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  Speaker 3: all done out of these are promises made out of
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  Speaker 3: love and affection. Don't put words love and affection in
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  Speaker 3: your personal care contract.
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  Speaker 2: Remember, that's the exact opposite of what it's supposed to be.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly. Medicaid says that if you don't have a contract
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  Speaker 3: you're serving the work you're provided is deemed to be
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  Speaker 3: out of love and affection. So love and affection is
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  Speaker 3: a bad term to have in your medicaid contract, a
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  Speaker 3: personal care contract if you're concerned about Medicaid. Yeah, this
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  Speaker 3: idea of unilaterally terminating a contract any time you want
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  Speaker 3: within sixty days notice would probably make the contract not
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  Speaker 3: be a valid contract from the get go, So I
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  Speaker 3: think you have a problem with that in and of itself.
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  Speaker 3: And lastly, folks, just make sure that when you collect
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  Speaker 3: the money that the person collecting the money providing the
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  Speaker 3: service puts it on their income tax return. All those
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  Speaker 3: things cleanse the transfer, make it not a five year
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  Speaker 3: waiting period, and it's something you can do last minute.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Other things you can do last minute. Get the guide
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: learn how not to pay the nursing home up front
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: eight sixty six eight four eight five six, nine to nine.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and we'll be
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: back with more after this break. On the legal exchange
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Changes to Medicaid occur almost every year, and if you're
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: not informed, your assets could be at risk, especially if
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: you or your spouse need nursing home care. Cushing and
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  Speaker 1: Dolan are experts in elder lam and their new guide
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  Speaker 1: the Medicaid process, which is critically important if you're retired
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  Speaker 1: or getting closer retiring. The guide has important information regarding
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: numerous strategies that can protect your assets from the nursing home.
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  Speaker 1: It could be your primary home, a vacation home, or
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the legal exchange with Todd Latsky. I'm
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers of financial advisor with the Armstrong Advice Group,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a masters in taxation.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Where we headed now, Todd, we're.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Going to go over to New Jersey and we're going
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: to talk about a Medicaid lean, a state lean, a
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: lifetime lean versus an at death lien. And what are
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: all these leans that we're talking about? So here are
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: the facts. So, Gabriel an adult who lives in a
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: house operated by ARC. This is those Foundations group home. Yeah,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: when when she and there she gets you know, day
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: and residential services. Okay, Well, DDD of New Jersey, which
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: is the Department of Disabled Individuals in New Jersey, which
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: is a Medicaid program in New Jersey. They've actually provided
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: a lot of the services since twenty twelve. Okay, Well,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: in December twenty nineteen, Gabriel inherited six hundred thousand dollars
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: from her his sister. Oh right, yeah, from the estate
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: of the sister. ARC petitioned to become guardian and petition
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: to transfer those assets immediately to a pool trust for
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: her for her benefit. I would have done the same thing. D. D.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: D of New Jersey said, whoh, wait a minute, we've
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: got a claim here, and that claim that lean we
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: have that should be paid for and paid off for
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: the past, you know, the existing amount of money that
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: we're owed before we put any of this money into
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: a pool trust. ARC argued, Wait a minute. Department of
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Medical Assistance d m A, which is the federal version
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: of Medicaid, they're going to have a future Medicaid lean
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: and that would take priority over your D D D lean,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: therefore precluding you New Jersey from seeking repayment of the
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: lean now.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And she's still alive, so yeah, okay, she is.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: The trial court agreed with Arc and said the state lian,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: you need to wait. You're going to be subordinate to
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: the future federal DMA Medicaid lien.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Take a number.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: Therefore, allow that inheritance to be transferred to the pool
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: trust for the benefit of gabl wheel. D d D
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: didn't like that, Yeah, so they appealed. This would never
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: be fun if we didn't get to go to an appeal, right,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: So d d D appealed and the appellate court reversed. Really,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: the appellate court reversed the trial court saying, while there
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: is no medicaid lien, while there is a medicaid leen
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: that can be you know, can be imputed here against
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: the other medicaid leen recipients prior to his or her death.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: So you're allowed on a medicaid lien to pursue prior
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: to the death of an individual. But here d d
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: D lean and medicaid leen exist at the same time.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: So if if they exist at the same time, then
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: the medicaid lien takes priority, the federal medicaid lien takes
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: priority over the state. But since here there's no medicaid
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: lien that exists currently, the DDD lien does exist, they're
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: entitled to recover, so the state can recover when there's
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: not another medicaid lien already out there.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Do you want to know my opinion as a lay
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: person who's been going to the law school, of Todd
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Blotski for the past twenty years. Yeah, I would think
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: that that inheritance would be counted as income in the
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: month that it's received, and that we would then save
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: that money before the end of that period later for later.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I think, So, do pool trust do whatever it is
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: you're going to do. I don't know if you do
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: that in New Jersey. Every law is different, but or
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: a nonuity or something so state specific correct susan you're
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: able to make that assessment.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: I think that's accurate. We're going to explore that, I
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: think right right now.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: But I think I get an a for this semester
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: with that you do.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: You've been paying attention. So whether this is the right
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: answer or not, I mean, it does seem there does
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: seem to be some logic that if there's no federal
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: lean then it can't take priority. It's a future lian.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: So I see how the state might be able to
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: recover against state specifics. So I don't know all the laws,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to give you some answers from a
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Massachusetts perspective. But folks, this is what happens right after
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: you get on Medicaid. Remember a Medicaid lien is not
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: a bad thing because you could be paying, you know,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: sixty five hundred a month on medicaid instead of fifteen
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: thousand a month private pay. So getting on Medicaid and
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: having a lien is still your friend. So this isn't
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: a bad thing. And that's what this guide is all about.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: What can we do last minute to protect assets that
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: we've never protected or if we've done planning, there's gonna
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: be assets outside the trust that need protected when you're
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: applying for medicaid. So this guide is for everyone, people
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: who planned and who haven't planned. It'll explain to you
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: how to treat certain assets differently. Houses, rental properties, vacation homes,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: life insurance annuities. There's certain exceptions like caretaker child exceptions
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: for the home. How to do it if your own
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: house with your sibling folks. Assets are treated differently. Some
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: are accountable, some are not. Some can be saved last minute.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Don't write the check, call and get the guide eight
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange show dot com again eight six six eight
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: dot com.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: How would you handle this case if Gabrielle was your client.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is this is where I focused on
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: the inheritance Susan, just just like like you did. You know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: if you're on Medicaid and in a nursing home and
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know here that they were, and that might
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: be the difference. Remember she was in some kind of
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: ur operated home.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: A group home, got it. Got it.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: So this could be a very big difference. But you're
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: on the right track, and I'm going to treat this
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: the same way. I'm assuming that what if we have
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: somebody who's in a nursing home, yes, and already on medicaid,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: nursing home Medicaid, not community Medicaid, but long term care
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: nursing home Medicaid. This is how the rule works. And
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: so that might be the big difference here with the
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: New Jersey case. But let's explore it. If you're on
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: Medicaid and you get an inheritance, that's a lump sum
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: of money. The mass rigs treat this as as you said, Susan,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: as income in the month received and an asset in
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: the following month. You have thirty days. Now why that
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: matters is if it's income, then you're not technically considered
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: over assets. You're not over your two thousand dollars asset limit,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: and therefore you don't lose Medicaid coverage. Now, yes, you
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: might have to private pay the full month because you've
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: got a whole ton of income. Well that's okay. This
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: money then after you pay, that can be immediately moved
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: into a pool trust within thirty days of you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: and remaining eligible from Medicaid. And or you could buy
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: a Medicaid annuity, depending on how the numbers work, how
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: old you are, and you know how much you're dealing with.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: That's really different than what happened up here. So again,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: if you're on Medicaid, I'll give you now a real
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: life story. If you're on Medicaid and you've been on
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: for several years and you get somebody who long lost
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: uncle receives you, dies and leaves you money, what happens. Well,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: in this case, I had a situation where husband and
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: wife received each received three hundred thousand dollars same uncle.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: So it was nice that took tyr of the spouse
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: as well. Husband was at home, wife was in the
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: nursing home. I said, what do we do? I said, Well,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: the husband's money is no problem. Right, you could, I said,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: just just that's he's allowed to get that, and we
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: can after you're on medicaid. Doesn't have any problem, I said,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: hold on to hers for a minute. Then I said,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: you know what, all right, let's transfer it to her
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: and now it's considered a lump sum. She gets it
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: in one year. Then within thirty days, I said, okay,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: transfer it to the spouse. Why because transfers to spouses
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: are no five year waiting period, and then spouse is
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: allowed to go ahead in and buy. You know, I'm
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: actually transferring it to a spouse is not a disqualifying transfer.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: And so we were able to do that and we
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: could just buy an annuity for the for the money. Wow,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: what what an amazing way to get around this whole problem.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Loohole And it workedhole, and.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: It absolutely worked, and you could save the money. So
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: you got to understand the rules when you allow those
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: you know that those are all allowable rules and and
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: you can keep the person on medicaid.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: You really need an ery that this is what they
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: do all day every day with the elder law you do.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, like a life estate, you could put a
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: lien on during life if you're foolish enough to sell
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: it during life, they're going to capture it. Yes, if
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: you wait till death, they might put an at death
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: lien on it. But you know, but then you would
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: have avoided probate and it wouldn't be captured. Right, So
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: you really got to understand it, and pooled trust could
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: have been used as well. Last Minute, But there are
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: techniques out there for us to understand how to protect
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: assets Last Minute. That's what the guide is about this month.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility eight six six eight four eight
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: You have been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: a law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: will be answering your listener questions when we return to
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Changes to Medicaid occur almost every year, and if you're
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: not informed, your assets could be at risk, especially if
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you were your spouse need nursing home care. Cushing and
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Dolan are experts in elder lam and their new guide
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: is called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. It'll help you understand
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the medicaid process, which is critically important if you're retired
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: or getting close to retiring. The guide has important information
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: regarding numerous strategies that can protect your assets from the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: nursing home. It could be your primary home, a vacation home,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: or any rental property you may own. You've worked hard
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to achieve wealth, so don't take chances when it comes
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to protecting it. Get your copy of Cushing and Dolan's
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: brand new guide called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility Call Right
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Now eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: or you can request it online by visiting Legal exchange
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Show dot com. That's Legal exchange show dot com. The
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are solely
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: Artificial intelligence is constantly evolving and can even be a
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: revolutionary asset to a financial strategy. HI This is Armstrong
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Our new guide is called
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• 25:33
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• 25:35
  Speaker 5: guide online by visiting us at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
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  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
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• 26:55
  Speaker 1: listening to the Legal Exchange and it's time for Ask Todd,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the segment where Tom will answer your questions about anything
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and everything that's included in the estate planning process. Once again,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: here's Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome back talk. We have a few questions from listeners.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: First question comes from Rebecca and Maldon Mass and Rebecca writes,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: my mother has a non retirement annuity worth four hundred thousand,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: but she hasn't taken any money out of it. She's
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: been declining and we'll need to go into a nursing
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: home soon. I called the annuity company and they told
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: me this annuity can be withdrawn if she decides to
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: do so. Is there any way we can protect this
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: from the nursing home now or is it too late?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Other than a few thousand in a bank account, this
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: is her only asset. So the last minute planning for
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: a single person.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So this is a single individual that's got
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: four hundred thousand dollars kicking around. Whether it's in the
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: annuity form or not really does not matter. So let
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: me explain whether this is sitting in a bank account
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: or whether this is sitting in an annuity. The annuity
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: that it is in is because it was purchased long ago,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: is guaranteed not to be a Medicaid qualified annuity.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Because it's very special, right.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: This was just a regular old investment annuity, and so
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: I need people to understand that while I'm going to
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: talk to you now about Medicaid annuities. Understand that if
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: you have one today and you bought it a while ago,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: and you were never in the nursing home, it is
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: not a Medicaid annuity. So if someone sold it to
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: you telling you that they said this will be protected
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: from the nursing home, it won't be. Okay, Okay, So
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: cash or an annuity makes no difference. We've got four
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand of acountable assets. First thing we need to
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: do is understand that in order for Rebecca to get
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: eligible for MEDICAD, she's only allowed to have two thousand
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: dollars so much so that's a lot more than four
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: hundred or four hundred's a lot more than two. Excuse me, okay,
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: So how do we get this down to two? Well,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: we first got to liquidate the annuity, convert it to cash.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: Now once it's in cash, based on her age, do
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: we know her age?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: We don't know her, So the age might.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Affect whether we can do the annuity or not. Right, So,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: if she's like in her like ninety, you know, even
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: eighty nine, it may be the annuity might not work.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: When we talk about how the numbers work, so we
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: would have to go to a pool trust route if
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: the annuity doesn't work. I don't want to make it
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: sound like there's nothing we can do. We will either
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: do a pool trust or an annuity.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Here, So annuity would be your first choice.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the annuity would be the go to because the
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: lean that's attached to the annuity doesn't require also a
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: payment to charity.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, so whereas the pool trust does in a payback.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the pool trust has the lean the payback same
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: as annuity, but also you got to pay to charity
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: ten percent if it's under two years in the nursing home,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: twenty percent to charity if you're in the nursing home
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: two years or more. Okay, So keep that in mind.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: So let's assume we could do the annuity. So we
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: would take the four hundred thousand minus the two and
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: then we would buy a medicaid annuity. What is this
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: It's the ability to convert that money from an income
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: from an asset to an income stream. You basically do
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: it over her life expectancy. So when you're single, you
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: go to a table and like if you're seventy five
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: years old, it would be like a twelve year life expectancy. Okay,
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: so if she's eighty five, you know, maybe it's only
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: a six year life expectancy.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: So so you don't do it for her life. You
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: do it over the life expectance specific term. Right, you
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: can't do it, very good point. Don't say, oh, I
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: can do it over your whole life. I got this
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: much better product.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: You might. It might be a better product, but not
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: for nursing. But it ain't going to work for nursing homes.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: So so make sure it's term certain. So let's say
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: we pick Let's say she's eighty five and there's a
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: six year life expectancy. So we take the three hundred
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: and ninety eight thousand dollars, we buy a Medicaid annuity.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: It pays out over six years. Monthly interest is irrelevant,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: it's small, but the moment you convert that to a
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: monthly income payment, it's now no longer an asset, and
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: like magic, she's worth two thousand dollars. So now she's
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: eligible for Medicaid, and you apply, and of course that
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: monthly check will come in and go to the nursing home.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: But again, if you've got forty five hundred a month
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: coming in between the annuity, or five thousand a month
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: coming in between the annuity and your Social security Well,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Medicaid only costs sixty five hundred a month. There's a
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: fifteen hundred dollars a month lean attached to the annuity.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Better than the fifteen grand amounth.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Way better right in the check. And yes, with a
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: single person, you do need to name the state as
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: the beneficiary after you die for that payment. But so
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: what I've slowed the bleeding for Medicaid eligibility purposes, folks,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: that's in the guide. An example like this about how
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: you can slow bleeding of exs assets is in there.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: But more importantly, there's items in here that talk about
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: how to maybe save the asset altogether last minute. Who
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: can we transfer to last minute? Is there a caretaker child?
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Is there a disabled child? Can the house just be
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: considered non countable if you're married? Might be right? What
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: about rental property? Can we make that non countable? Is
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: it leanable? Folks? There's things that can be done last minute,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: And each asset is treated differently, and it's treated differently
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: if you're married versus single. This guide is for you
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: if you've never done planning, or if you've done planning,
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: call and get it. It will tell you how to
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: protect what's not protected last minute when you go to
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: a nursing home eight sixty six eight four eight five
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: six nine to nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: again eight sixty six eight four eight five six nine
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot Com.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Betty and Norwood Mass and
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Betty writes, I created my iryvocable trust with you in
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, leaving my assets equally to my children. My
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: daughter recently passed away. What do I need to do
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: to update my legal documents?
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I want to make sure her children get her share.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Will this restart my five year look back if I'm
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: changing how I leave my assets?
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: So she's got to trust. Let's just review this. She's
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: got the trust in place already since twenty fifteen year,
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: So that's great news, folks. Number one, that that's more
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: than five years ago. We're way beyond the five year
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: look back period. And again she was leaving assets equally
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: to kids, but now she wants to update that.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, one of her daughters passed away.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: And again, just so you understand, when you lose a child,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: if it's going equally to my children and my grandchildren,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: losing a child might not be a reason to change
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: your documents. So first I just want to let people
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: know because they might be listening thinking, oh I got
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: to run around changing my document every time a child
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: passes away or something not necessarily. So if you still
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: want to treat your children equally to the kids living,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: if not living, that piece goes to that child's children, stop,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: you don't have to change it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: So that's pretty standard language in your trust, right And
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: she did hers with you, so that would be the
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: language that's.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, I didn't see that yeah with me, yes,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: so yes, So this probably would be in there already,
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: all right. And if that's still what you want, no
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: need to change it. Okay, great news. Hard stop now.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: If on the other hand, for some reason, and this
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: would be rare, but it would have been something that
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: the client tells us, Oh no, Todd, I want to
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: treat my kids per capita. Well, again, no reason to
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: change it. If it goes equally to my kids, if living,
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: otherwise to the then living children, meaning if I have
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: three and one dies, then it goes two ways and.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: It gets split.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: That still works, right, So I'm concerned as to why
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: just because your daughter died that you would want to
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: change this one. I think it works in either direction. Now.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: If you're saying, on the other hand that it was
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: per capita, but now you're realizing, no, I really want to.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Take care of the child that dies kids, and that's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: what she's saying here.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't that way, then yes.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And maybe she doesn't realize that that's that's built in
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: to your trust that if living otherwise to their children,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: You've already got that cover for her.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: I would already have that covered. So likely I already
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: have that covered. But just for fun, so we've answered
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: that question, you could you could make this change.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: So what if she hasn't lost a child. But she says,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: all right, well, I was going to leave everything to
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: my kids. Now I want to maybe bring the grandkids in.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I'm like them a little bit more, and then she
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: wants to add them to the mix. Can she do that?
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So she could then say I want to leave,
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: you know, ten percent to all my grandkids and only
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: ninety percent of my kids. Yeah, she absolutely could do that,
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: and there's language in the trust that allows you to
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: change the beneficiaries and that change will not affect the
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: five year waiting perce.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Even though it's irrevocable, you can still change your mind.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: How are you leaving things?
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: You sure can, folks. Lots of flexibility in there. And
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: in case you've not done your planning and you're faced
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: with Medicaid eligibility, call and get this guide. It'll help
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: you not write the check without learning how to stop
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: the financial bleeding eight six six eight four eight five
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: six nine to nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you'd like to ask Todd,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cush and Dolan. I'm Susan
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: We'll be back with more after this quick break on
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Changes to Medicaid occur almost every year, and if you're
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: not informed, your assets could be at risk, especially if
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: you or your spouse need nursing home care. Cushing and
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Dolan are experts in elder lam and their new guide
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: is called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. It'll help you understand
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the Medicaid process, which is critically important if you're retired
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: or getting close to retiring. The guide has important information
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: regarding numerous strategies that can protect your assets from the
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: nursing home. It could be your primary home, a vacation home,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: or any rental property you may own. You've worked hard
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: to achieve wealth, so don't take chances when it comes
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: to protecting it. Get your copy of Cushing and Dolan's
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: brand new guide called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility call right
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Now eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: or you can request it online by visiting Legal exchange
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: show dot com. That's Legal exchange show dot com. The
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: proceeding was paid for in the views expressed are sole
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: lead those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: This is Michael Valila, adjudent of the Disabled American Veterans
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: Department of Massachusetts. We focus on the people returning from service,
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: not their specific illness or injury.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: Our number one goal is.
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: To make sure our veterans have the necessary services they need,
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: be it physical, emotional, or financial, so that their transition
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: can be seamless. You can help our great American heroes
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: as well by making a donation today by visiting dav
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: five k dot Boston. That's dav five k dot Boston.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Summers here in New England and it's the perfect time
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: to trade the daily routine for something extraordinary. Say hello
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: to the US Virgin Islands, America's Caribbean paradise. Explore the
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: vibrant history and flavor of Saint Croix. Lounge on the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: stunning beaches of Saint Thomas, or find your peace on
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: the quiet shores of Saint John. From the moment you arrive,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: you'll feel it. You're naturally in rhythm with the heartbeat
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: of the islands. There's no passport needed, no currency to exchange,
• 39:10
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• 39:19
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• 39:28
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• 39:36
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• 39:41
  Speaker 4: Artificial intelligence isn't just the future, it's already shaping how
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: people think about their money. Hi, this is Chuck Zada
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: from the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've put together a new
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: guide called AI and Your Financial Plan. In it, we
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: explore the ways that AI is being used in financial technology,
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: from apps the track spending to tools that can help
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: identify trends. It's a rapidly changing space, and this guide
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: is designed to help you understand some of the potential
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: benefits and risks that AI may present. Want to learn more,
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: call eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: and request your free copy of AI and your Financial Plan.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: That's eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one,
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: or visit Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: If you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: call Todd right now at eight sixty six eight four
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninet nine and let him make sure
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: your assets are protected. That's eight six six eight four
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: eight five six nine nine, or visit him online at
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor the Armstrong Advisory Group, and
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I'm joined of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner with
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: a law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a masters
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: in taxation. So, Todd, we're focusing this month on kind
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: of navigating the whole medicaid process when someone goes into
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: a nursing home. Yeah, so you have made comments throughout
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: the show that this guide is good for people who
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: have not done their planning and people who have done
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: their planning, because not necessarily everything goes into your trust.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: These are the people that have done the planning. Is
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: is it just retirement accounts typically that you kind of
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: have to plan for a last minute when they've done
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: their planning.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So even if you've done your planning, Remember you're
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: definitely right, Susan, you're not going to be putting any
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: IRA qualified plan money in the trust. Just can't. You
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: got to beg income tax. And but you know what
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: I always tell people, there's nothing wrong. You always have
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: a personal bank account or two or three that you
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: leave outside the trust. How much you leave in that
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: personal bank account is really up to you and your needs. Yeah,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: but you always leave one out, mainly because your social
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Security and your pension checks cannot be deposited into an
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: account in the name of the trust, so you got
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: to leave it out to catch those dollars. So, yes,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: it's going to be a combination of money that might
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: be outside the trust in a bank account and IRA assets. Generally,
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: there may also be a life insurance policy that you
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: couldn't put in the trust during life and you might
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: have to deal with that, and in.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: That is typically because you're still making premium payments.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: Typically, if you don't have enough money in the trust
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: to make the premium payment, then you really can't put
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: the life insurance in there because every time you make
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: a premium payment, you would have a new five year
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: waiting period. Got it, So it pretty much leave those out.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Yep, got it? Okay, So let's talk about the assets.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Help people understand what's actually at risk, because you want
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: to try and put as much as possible that's at
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: risk into your trust. So let's explain what is actually
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: at risk. So I want to look at it from
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: both the perspective of a married couple as well as
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: a single person. Okay, the home is usually very often
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: the largest asset for folks. It is, how is it
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: treated for a married couple?
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: This is an asset not in the trust? Correct you we've.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Not seen Yeah, nothing in the trust yet?
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: So nothing in or this person just didn't do planning,
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: because clearly, I think the first answer would be if
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: you did planning, the house would be in there, right
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: and it would be protected. End story.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: So this is just assuming there's no planning done. So
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: what's at risk.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: So if there's nothing done and we're doing it, did
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: you say for a married couple.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: For a married couple, first, how is the home treated
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: in terms of being at risk or not?
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: So the home is a special asset. It's considered noncountable.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to say this if located in Massachusetts,
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: because I'm assuming you're in mass and your houses in
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: mass and going into a nursing home in mass So
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: it says the statute says the home is non countable
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: if located in Massachusetts and the survive or the healthy
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: spouse is living there, there is no valuation limitation. It
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: can be a ten dollar home. It's still protected, no
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: valuation limitation, and no lean rule applies. So no matter
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: how expensive the house is, it's non countable for the
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: healthy spouses living there. So when the six spouse goes
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: into the nursing home, they don't count this as an
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: asset and the state cannot put a lean on it
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: home run for the house. One caveat it's likely that
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: that house was also owned jointly.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: Can you leave it that way and still get on
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: medicaid for him? Yes? Should you know? Come so you
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: don't want to leave it jointly owned because if the
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: spouse that's at home dies out of order, right, you
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: hate when that happens. They shouldn't do that. Then that
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: half of the house would go to the six spouse
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: who's in the nursing home. And now the house is
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: one hundred percent exposed because it's only owned by the
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: nursing home applicant. And we can talk about a single
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: person in a minute, but so we would want to
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: change the ownership of the house to put it in
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: her name alone.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: And would you do that after he's qualified for medicaid?
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: Doesn't really matter. It's a non countable asset. So you
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: do got to do it within ninety days of approval,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: no matter what God, So you do got to you do,
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: got to move it. So, folks, that's just a little
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: bit of an of one asset. That's just half the
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: treatment hate of one asset. We've got rental properties, vacation homes,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: life insurance, we've got four to oh one K accounts,
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: we've got IRA accounts. Folks, assets are treated differently depending
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: on their accountability status and whether you're married or single.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: And there's techniques like annuities and pooled trusts, and caretaker
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: child exceptions explained in here to do things that might
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: actually save the asset completely. So learn what to do
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: last minute. Don't just write a check to the nursing home.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: Even if you've not done planning and you think you
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: can't get eligible, odds are you probably can call and
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: get the guide last minute Medicaid Eligibility eight six six
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that's for married couple married only yep. How
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: about if a single person owns a home and goes
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: into the nursing home. How do they treat that home?
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very very differently. So first of all, is it
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: non countable? Initially you have to check a statute and
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: see how this applies. It says, if you go into
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: a nursing home, the house is non countable provided somebody
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: as special as living there, which let's say we don't
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: have any of those, like a spouse or because you're single,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: or a disabled child or any of those things. Then
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: you go all the way down the list and you say, oh,
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: the only way to make this non countable if nobody's
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: living there. That would protect it is check a box
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: believe it or not on the application that says I
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: intend to return home.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: So what happened? I mean, if you're going into a
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: nursing home, you likely can't go back home again. So
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: does it depend on their health status or Nope?
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: Completely subjective.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: So they just have the I intend to let's stay
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: here forever.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: I'm not staying here, I'm going home, and so you
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: check that box. Make sure you check that box. If
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: you check that box, then the house becomes non accountable.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: But that's just the beginning test. Now there's other rules
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: that apply. Now, you got to look to a valuation test, right,
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: So first and foremost, if the house is worth more
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: than or if you have an equity interest that exceeds
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: I check. I think it's like a million, one hundred
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: and thirty three thousand dollars or something like that. Today
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: a million call it a million one for easy numbers
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: here in mass different for other states. So let's say
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: as long as the if the value of the house
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: was a million two hardstop, you're denied medicaid. That's how
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: powerful HOS is. You're going to be denied medicaid. Now
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: if you again you have to have an equity interest
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: that exceeds. But again, if you you can't go borrow
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: the money because if you borrow the money to bring
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: down the equity, now you mat a bunch of money.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: You have a bunch of money in your bank account,
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: and that's going to make you ineligible because you have
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: more than two thousand and then you pay off the
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: debt in your back. It's a circle. So that's a
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: hard stop. So let's assume for the moment that we've
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: checked the box and yes, it's worth less than a
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: million one ish, are we eligible? Well, at least we
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: know the house is non accountable, so the house by
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: itself will not prevent you for becoming eligible for medicaid. However,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: unlike with a married couple, this house will be leaned.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: They will put a lifetime lean on it and of
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: course an at death lean on it. So if you
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: sell it during life, they're going to want paid back
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: for whatever services they provided. Makes sense, My advice likely
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: would be, please don't sell it during life, because if
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: you convert it to money, might be a lot harder
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: to protect those dollars. How am I going to protect
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: those dollars. Is the annuity going to work? Do I
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: have to do a pool trust? So selling it isn't
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: always the best bet. Renting is fine, you don't have
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: too but keeping it and then you get a step
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: up in basis and even if there is a lien
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: on it when you die, because they will put a
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: lien on a death, the kids could sell it no
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: capital gains tax because they got to step up in basis.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: And you know what if we got to pay a lien,
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: we pay a link yep or keep it right and
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: pay off the lian. And you've got a nice rental
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: property with a step up in basis. You can always
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: mortgage it, folks. That's just the house. Get the guide.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Other assets are also available to be saved last minute.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: Just got to learn what to do with each asset
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: and whether you're married or single eight six six eight
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or legal exchange show
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: dot com.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing in Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Much, Thank you, Susan. It's always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining US today and we'll be
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Changes to Medicaid occur almost every year, and if you're
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: not informed, your assets could be at risk, especially if
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: you or your spouse need nursing home care. Cushing and
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Dolan are experts in elder lam and their new guide
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: is called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. It'll help you understand
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: the Medicaid process, which is critically important if you're retired
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: or getting close to retiring. The guide has important information
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: regarding numerous strategies that can protect your assets from the
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: nursing home. It could be your primary home, a vacation home,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: or any rental property you may own. You've worked hard
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: to achieve wealth, so don't take chances when it comes
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: to protecting it. Get your copy of Cushing and Dolan's
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: brand new guide called Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility call right
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Now eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: or you can request it online by visiting Legal exchainshow
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: dot com. That's Legal Exchange show dot com. The proceeding
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: was paid for in the views expressed are solely those
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services. Cushing
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: and are not a fit.
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: Artificial intelligence is constantly evolving and can even be a
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: revolutionary asset to a financial strategy.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: HI.
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Our
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: new guide is called AI and Your Financial Plan. In it,
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: we explain how artificial intelligence continues to make inroads into
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: our daily lives and how the advent of its technologies
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: may affect an existing or future financial plan. AI serves
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: the public in a variety of ways, from apps to
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: monitor personal finances to tools that analyze investments. AI is
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: not the future anymore. Its effect is felt by businesses
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: of all kinds on a daily basis. Call us today
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: at eight hundred three nine three four zero zero one
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: and ask for your free guide. That number again is
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: eight hundred three nine three four zero zero one, or
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: you can request the guide online by visiting us at
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you to offer investment
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: advisory soervices. Summers here New England, and it's the perfect
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: time to trade the daily routine for something extraordinary. Say
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: hello to the US Virgin Islands, America's Caribbean paradise. Explore
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: the vibrant history and flavor of Saint Croix. Lounge on
• 53:16
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