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An Unlikely Affair: From Pain to Peace · Untraditionally Lala

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, Amber, Hilelah, Welcome to an unlikely affair. I babed
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: it is well, I can't with my rider die Amber
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Childers via zoom. I miss you so much. I can't
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: even stand it is that weird. I'm going through something
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: where like I really miss people that are far away.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Ooh no, it's not weird.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: I miss you too, and I miss Ocean and I
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: miss Sosa.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Actually I had a moment Amber where I looked at
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Sosa because she wanted to see what was going on
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: on the phone. She's a year and a half, you know.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: It's not like she's sitting there being like, well, I
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: don't have siblings. She just wanted to know what was
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: going on, you know. Ocean said, I'm talking to my sisters,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: and like took the phone and like walked away from Sosa.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: And I looked at Sosa with like such a heavy heart,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I feel like I need to give
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: you a sibling, because I don't want you to feel
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: like you don't have anybody like your sister has you.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: But she also has another group on the other side,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and you're just kind of flying solo where it's like, Hi,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: I'm as good as it gets babe, I don't.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Know, know, that's not just not even thinking about that,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: and I know you are, but that's like, no, I
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: think that's guilt. That's just you feeling guilty that they
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: have separate quote like fathers, and I think a lot
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: of women can relate to that, and maybe like when
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: they get into a second relationship they have another child
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: or two, right, But that's up to you. I personally
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: feel that, like you do a great job of just
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: helping everybody feel like family, and that's our responsibility. You
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: and I specifically, like I feel a deep responsibility to
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: make sure even when things were really tough with us,
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: I felt the deep responsibility to make sure that these
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: girls stay connected on a level because I have sisters
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: and I know how deeply I rely on them at
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: times in my life, and I wanted to make sure
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: that that happened with Ocean and Sosa is going to
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: be great, just going to feel loved. There's so much
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: love in that house. She's never going to feel like.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I feel like your kids always end
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: up finding some way to be disappointed with you when
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: you when you know when you get older, but don't
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: worry about it. She's fine unless you really want to.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: Unless you were looking for an excuse to have another baby.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: That's a whole other conversation.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: The door still still is not closed on another baby.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: But right now I'm tired. I'm very tired, and I
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: want to go back to what you just said about
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: kind of creating that that household where you know, even
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: when you and I were not getting along because there were,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: you know, deep wounds that I think even during those
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: moments you and I, whether we vocalized it to each other,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: it didn't matter because I know that deep down in
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: our hearts, it was like we knew what the grander
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: purpose was and what was going to stay in the
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: test of time, which is the relationship that you and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I had to incubate for our kids. Even when I
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: was still with that person, I think we both knew,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: you know, the girls coming over and spending time with Ocean,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: and it was very short lived, right Ocean was seven
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: months when I left the relationship, So you and I
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: really had to rise to the occasion. And when we
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: started communicating and I made the amends, I have to
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: know what was what was going through your head. Because
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: we can talk about the girls and them seeing each other,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: but we knew they were going to see each other
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: because we shared custody with our ex both of us.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: When did you feel like you fully let your guard
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: down and wanted to be open with me? Do you remember?
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: I think there was a couple of moments because it
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: was a big trusting for me. Right. I feel like
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I've always had issues trusting women in general.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Even before you middle school.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it dates way beyond when you met him, correct, correct?
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I think one of the first things that pops into
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: my mind is when you and I had It was
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: a holiday party I made, the time that I had
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: my jewelry company was up and running.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I oh my god, I remember this so well.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: Okay, keep going, And it meant so much that you
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: came whether you wanted to be there, and I have
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: no idea like how that even transpired.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Did I come solo or did he come with me?
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: He came, okay?
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: And I think the more I talked to you and
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: really got to know you, separate of him as a person,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: I was like, I freaking like her, She's kind of cool.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Like I think I'm judging her way too much based
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: on the situation, and I I feel like and I
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: can't believe I'm gonna say this. It's so funny, but
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: I feel like you set me free of all my
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: past issues that I've ever had with women, Like like,
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: it's like you broke me to build my confidence back
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: up to trust another woman again.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Wow. Do you know how crazy that sounds?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: It sounds nuts, and I don't know.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: It has to be like, it's just this intuition, this knowing,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Like when I sat down with you to have sushi
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: that one day, and I'll never forget I actually still
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: have it. You brought me a gift. I was like,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: this is so fucking bizarre, but I really like her.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: For some reason, I cannot believe that I'm saying that
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: I actually like my ex husband's mistress.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: No, that is so good. It's so good.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know why, but it just it just happens,
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: and you just get this feeling and trust me, there
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: were times that I really didn't like you, and I
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: think that staying in that pain was a lot more comforting.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Staying angry with you was a lot more comforting and
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: familiar than getting uncomfortable and growing with you.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I conclude that resonates with me because even even now,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I feel so much more comfortable in conflict than I
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: do in peace and love. Now, I'm definitely we are
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: reaching that point of me feeling comfortable with being peaceful
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: and loved and all of the things and giving love
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and steering clear of like I don't want to feel
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the yucky toxicity and picking a fight. I do have
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: to battle those moments, but I do relate to you
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: saying it felt familiar to stay in the pain. And
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I say this often when people talk about relationships, whether
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: it's friendships intimate partners, when they say, uh, you know,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I don't understand this person's unhappy. Why did they not leave?
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: And it's like, you don't understand what it feels like
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to become comfortable when something is your normal, even though
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: maybe deep down you know that happiness lies elsewhere outside
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: of what you're in. It's terrifying because when you wake
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: up and this is your normal, you know the drill.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: And I feel like with I obviously know why you
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: didn't like me in those moments, I cannot actually I
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: know exactly why I didn't like you. We've talked about this.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I felt that you were that person who gave him
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: things that I had not given him yet, which was children.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And I now that I have kids, I know that
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: feeling of like, I love my kids and granted, this
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: person that we're talking about is incapable of love. But
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I know now that if I were to venture into
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: dating someone who had kids with someone else, now that
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I have children, it's fully possible to break free of
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the mother of your children or father of your children
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: and separate your kids from the person who produced them.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Right Like, that's over. You may be grateful for the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: person that gave you the kids, but that's not the
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: ultimate tie if I'm making any sense, which is why
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't like you, because I was like, there's a
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: tie that he has with this woman that I have
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: not at the time fulfilled. And again, you were a
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: talented woman, You were beautiful, poised, and I just I
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: felt very insecure about the whole thing. I couldn't give
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: anyone a reason why I didn't like you other than
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I think it was deep rooted jealousy. And as I
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: get older, I think I can admit those things. And
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I've had many friendships in my lifetime. I keep a
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: very tight circle, and as we get older, we're both
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: in our mid approaching late thirties. Jesus that I always
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: say I'm okay to age, and then I look at
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: my face and I'm like, what is this fucking new
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: wrinkling sun spot. I'm gonna lose my goddamn mind. But
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know that we are supposed to like be
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: gathering new friends in our thirties. I think we're supposed
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: to be cutting out and forming our tight little circle.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: I think friendship in your twenties is very different in
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: your thirties. When you have a friendship in your twenties,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: it's based on proximity, your kids go to school, who
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: you know, Like, there's all of these things that play
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: into its convenience, right, I feel like convenience is the key,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: like people that you work with. And then when life
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: starts happening in your thirties, it's more of you have
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: less time. Okay, So if I have less time, this
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: is me speaking for myself. When I have friendship, it's like, okay,
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: is this friendship intentional?
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Like what does this friendship.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Mean to me?
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Now? In my life?
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: I want really intentional, meaningful friendships. And if that means
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: I just have two friends, that means I have two friends.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: And by the way, it's a lot of work having
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: friends in your thirties. You have to go out of
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: your way to like stop what you're doing and say, Okay,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna check in on this friend today, or Okay,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: now I'm gonna like make time to go sit down
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: with my friend, my friend for an hour and a
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: half and help her through something, whatever it is.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: It's like I want, I want meaningful friendships.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Now, you know I there was a point in time
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: where you and I when we did connect, I had
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: left our ex. We were you and I were communicating
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: pretty frequently, but it was about the same thing, right,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: we can all assume what that one thing was. And
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: as time passed, you and I would call each other randomly,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and soon the conversations became mostly about him, but other things.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Then they became a little bit about him and most
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: about other things. I would say, at this point in time,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: it's mostly about other things. Yes, only one at this point,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: at this stage in the game. And this is how
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I know when I am digging a friendship. When I
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: leave that person or hang up the phone or I'm
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: texting them, the interaction leaves me with my cup full.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I don't leave feeling badly. I don't leave going oh
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I wish I wouldn't have said that, or what was
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: that look on their face. I leave feeling like I
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: have been revived. And that's what it's supposed to be about.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: And there there was a lot of like online chatter
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: for a moment that I had no friends, right, but
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I must be this horrendous person because I don't have
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of friends. Fine, whatever, say what you want.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: It is so by design and strategic I find the
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: more people, the more friendships that you allow into your life,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: you open yourself up for a tremendous amount of liability
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: which I cannot have. And I did that. I did that, Amber. I.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: This was in the last you know, one to two
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: years where I was like, damn, my social calendar is
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: pretty full. I've never had it like this, like I've
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: got I've got some friends and in a matter of
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: months and you were there, you watched it. I was like,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: this is why, this is why you don't let people
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: in like this. And I'm grateful that people show who
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: they are. And by the way, they're not bad people.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not a bad person. We just don't mesh and
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I found out now the way you move
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: is different from how I move. We just were not
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: in alignment for me. I don't think it needs to
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: be some big conversation. I have discovered you no longer
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: fill my cup, so like, wish you the best and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: you're on your way. I like having a tight group
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: of people around me.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Of course, I mean may it's emotional safety. That's what
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: friendship is.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: It's that you just said that, emotional safety. Keep going
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: tell me more, baby, I know that is the big
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: oh for me. Emotional safety.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: For me, I don't want a perfect friendship. I just
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: want something that's real. And if that means that, like
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: we're going to have a disagreement, I know a true
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: friendship is going to be able to get through that
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: disagreement in.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: A peaceful way.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, I feel emotionally safe enough with you to
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: say I didn't like that, I'm like really kind of
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: hurt my feelings or.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: I feel safe with you because I know you'll be
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: able to self reflect and be able to come forward
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: and say you know what, you're right or maybe you
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: need to beat some friendships they need to take breaks
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: and that's okay, and some friendships will come back together
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: a year or two years later. I've gone through friendships
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: that have broken up and it literally has crushed me
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: more than a romantic breakup because it hurts because there's
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: so much more. It's like it's like my like we're sisters, right,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: and it's just a different level. I feel like with
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: romantic breakups, there's rules, there's labels, there's endings, and when
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: friendships just like shift and disappear, it really hurt for me.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: It really hurts me.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it hurts way worse than a romantic
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: relationship ending.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: I think with you and I, I think we started backwards.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: We started up with a breakup and then you know
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: what I mean, we've had this reverse friendship because it
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: killed me at times, I'm like, I don't understand why
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: we can't just get along. I just didn't understand. I'm like,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to come forward and be open minded and
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: because again staying in the pain, Like, here's the thing
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: about like betrayal, it could transform you or you could
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: stay stuck. And I knew that was up to me,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: and so like in that beginning, I wanted it so bad,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: But I wasn't ready just to be free.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: I wasn't ready to be free.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: But now I feel so free with you, like I
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: when you and I had a conversation when I was
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: fine home yesterday. I mean, we're just on the same frequency.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: It's not always going to be like that, but I
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: know that we've been through enough that will always find
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: our way back to each other.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: We had a moment in San Francisco where I think
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I had said something and I noticed your energy kind
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: of shift, and I said to you, I was like,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: am I being I feel like I'm trying to be funny,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: but I feel like it's hurting your feelings and you
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: were like, la, la if if you go too far,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I will make sure that I tell you and I
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and even on this podcast, there was a clip that
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: was cut and I remember saying, I forgot who our
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: guests were, but I said her ex, I don't claim him.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: He's And I noticed this shift on your face, and
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm never gonna say that again, because
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: even if she says like it's funny, it's not too far.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Her face is telling me that she doesn't like it.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: No, that's telling you I need more botox.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. It wasn't about that. It was your
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: eyes shifted and I was like, there was like a
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: little bit of sadness. I'm not going to say that anymore.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: It like broke my heart.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know why. That just makes me feel emotional.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: I have no idea why which part all of it?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Well, because it didn't hurt.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Nothing hurt Like I again, I will let you know
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: of something or hurts my feelings. But it's like they say,
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: in a relationship, you have to pick and choose your battles,
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: and that's what we have to do, like in life
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: with our kids, with romantically, with our friendships, like in
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: those moments where you think, especially in San Francisco, that
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: had nothing to do with you, in more of like
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: my own personal like a like reflection of that doesn't
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: bother me, but something else is coming up for me.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: It was like I had to peel back the layers. Yeah,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: of what and it wasn't. It was not you at all.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: It was like, why do I feel this way? Because
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: there's maybe maybe there was some cutting truth to.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: It, maybe, but at the same time, you're a grown
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: woman who can work through those things. And if you
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: needed my if it was like an onion and we
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: needed to peel back layers. I don't ever want to
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: add to someone going through internal conflict, right, And we
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: always as women when we're in relationships, it's like the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: classic like, yeah, go out, I would have fun, baby,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and then he goes out and has fun and you're
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: mad about it. It's like, it's because I want you
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: to read my fucking mind. Women are good together, I
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: think because I can look at you and maybe what
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I'm saying is not affecting you, but it's deeper than that.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: So my job in that moment is to read your face.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: The energy of the room shifts, and I go, whatever
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I've said could have just added to something that she's
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: already dealing with, not on my watch. I don't want
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: to do that because I know that I wouldn't want
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: someone to do that to me. So there's that we're
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: so you and I are like without the intimacy. Obviously
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: we haven't hooked up, but we are like girlfriend and girlfriend.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, it's just so incredible how far we
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: have come. Because I have friends who were not in
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: situations like the two of us. Right, I'm a pretty
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: trusting person. But after shit went left with the person
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that we were both with, I didn't trust anybody. I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: trusted nobody. I had lost faith in humanity. But there
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: was something about every time your name popped up on
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: my phone that it was it got easier and easier
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: with every single text and phone call to say I
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: am safe with this person because you knew better than anybody.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: You knew way better than me. I didn't know him
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: at all. You knew him like the back of your hand.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: You knew the patterns. There were things that would happen
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and you would go, oh, he's going through this right now,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: and like clockwork, that's what was happening. And then, like
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I said, over time we started talking about you know,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the new guy you were dating, or I'm having trouble
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: with ocean with this, and it it was like I blinked.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I can't pinpoint the moment where I was like, this
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: girl is like my soulmate, Like we're friends, We're going
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: to work through everything that comes our way. The stakes
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: are high because we are our children are sisters. But
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I cannot remember that groundbreaking moment of like I trust her.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: It just kind of happened for me. I love that, right, Yeah,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I do too, because there's nothing I have such I'm
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: like happier than I've ever been in my whole life.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: And I think you probably know why, like a little
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: bit of course I know why. But also my friendships
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: are like they're right where I want them to be.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that there's a higher power out
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: there that just is orchestrating all of this.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: It's like people come in and out of your lives.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: What is the hardest would you say, friendship breakup you've
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: had as an adult?
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Katie Maloney, that was the hardest, and it there. I
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: had to do a lot of work with my sponsor
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: and I've shared this on the podcast, and I went
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: through a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, a
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: lot of sadness, you know, when there's just an influx
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: of emotions and you can't quite wrap your mind around
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: all of them at once. Yeah, when we were filming
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: our show, and shit got very very real, you know,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: And it was always real. We were filming a reality show,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: and when cameras were up, we were the same as
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: when cameras were down. We were not performing for anybody,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: And it was a wonderful time in my life, beautiful experience,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: but then shit got real where you must pick a side,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: and I understand that I asked people to do that
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: for me. So when the roles were reversed and I'm
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: trying to deal with all of the other emotions that
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I'm going through with my ex, but I'm trying to
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: also be there for somebody else, it just got very
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: confusing for me. And at the reunion the final season,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I brought something up that that Katie believed was between
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: just the two of us. It doesn't matter what my
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: perspective is. Amber No matter what my perspective is, bottom
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: line is your feelings to you are fact. If I
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: did something, I could have a completely different intention, but
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: it made you feel a certain way, right, That is
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: a fact. I made her feel like she had been betrayed,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: and so when I wanted to loop on, but that's
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: not how it happened. From my perspective, that's not how
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: it happened. I was in this vicious cycle of looping
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: and it's like, that's not how it fucking happened. That's
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: not how it fucking happened. And then I go to
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: my sponsor and I was like, here's the deal. I
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: have been looping on this for over a year now.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: I cannot shake it. I feel like I'm wearing a
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: scarlet letter. I want people to know the truth, but
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I I also want to just hide in a hole
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: and everyone forget about me, and I want everyone to
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: shut the fuck up, and I just want to be
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: over it. And she broke it down so simply, if
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: we don't keep our side of the street clean, we
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: are on the brink of a relapse. La, La. That
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: is what will happen to you if you continue circling
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the drain with this. It doesn't matter what your perspective is.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: We have to own our part how we made someone feel,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and we have to release it. I worked on a
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: text message to her and sat on it for months,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and every time I would tell my sponsor, I'm thinking
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: about sending it today, she goes, how is it going
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: to make you feel? If she doesn't respond, I was like, oh,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I'll be pissed. I fucking worked hard on this and
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I put my heart into it. And she goes, you're
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: not ready to send it, then you have to mean
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: it so deeply to your core that when you send it,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: you expect nothing back, not a thing. And finally one
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: day I got to that place where I was like,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I am completely content with the way things are right now,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and if I don't hear back, it doesn't matter because
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I still mean. I still mean what I'm saying in
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: this message, and I sent it off. I did not
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: hear back, and that is totally fine. I am totally
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: content with that. But that was a brutal friendship breakup
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: because during the hardest time of my life, the breakup
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and then going into film season ten, which was just
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: my life right because Katie was my best friend, so
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: we were just doing what we've always done, but now
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: on camera and that friendship revived me. I felt safe,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I felt seen, and it breaks my heart to know
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: that in a matter of moments, I didn't make her
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: feel the same. And it's fine.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to realize that you did what you
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: felt was right. You owned your mistake, and you know what,
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: she just needs time.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's ever going to come back, and
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: that's fine. It's I'm content with that. The reason I'm
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: crying is because life is just so. There are times
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: where we're just surviving and you may act in a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: way that is out of character. But it can shift things.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: It can shift friendships. You could be in a happy
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: marriage and in one moment your action can change everything.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: And you can sit and wish you would go back.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: You wish you could go back, but you have to
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: make peace with the fact that this was your journey.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: So although I miss that friendship deeply and I know
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: that there's no repairing it, you know, we've both moved on.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: When I look back on it, that whole situation. I
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: could have moved a lit differently, but I didn't, and
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I have to be okay with that.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Those moments when you cry like you just did, like you,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: you have to grieve the friendship, right, Yeah, that's part
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: of like life is just even grieving these small things.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: You know, My situation was my really best friend for
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know, thirteen years, fourteen years.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: It's really hard. I mean, I have a letter. I
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: wrote her letter.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: This is the friend I know, right, this is the
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: friend you know, And that friendship meant the world to
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: me because we went through so much together. And like you,
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: I went to my sponsor and I was like, she
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: did this and did it like you know, and she
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: said Amber stop.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Stop. Let's look at it from her perspective. What pain
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: could you have caused.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Her in that moment? And I did and I did,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: and that who that is hard to accept? Causing someone
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: else pain for me is really hard to accept.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: And I feel extremely bad.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: And I wrote her and I'm going to make amends
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: to her in person.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Have you made contact with her?
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: I did?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I sent her a message and I was not expecting
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: a response back and you got one.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: And I.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Don't.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know how it's going to end, but I
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: do owe her an apology for things that I said
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: that could have hurt her and the people that she loved.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't okay. And I made a mistake.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: And that's what.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Going through these friendships is, these are life lessons, Like
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: we learn the hard way sometimes and there's no repair
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: and the damage has been done. And then sometimes you
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: can mend a friendship and you come back stronger. Right,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: he didn't have a great friendship. Now I'm sitting across
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: from you and we're sharing our lives together. Right, I'm
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: calling you because I'm having a meltdown about looping about
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: whatever you know is going on in my life, and
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: I feel safe with you, and that that is the
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: most important thing, is consistency and safety. Right.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I have to trust you, yeah, and when you've but
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: and I just feel like life does this to you,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Like when people talk about, you know, they have trust
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: issues or abandonment issues. I'm like, that is just life.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I remember watching Shrinking. Do you watch that show? And
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I think it was maybe season one or two, and
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: it's Harrison Ford sitting with Alice, the daughter of Jason Siegel.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: On the bench the scene on the bench.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, and she is talking to him about just like
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: her mom dying, right, and how everyone gets to go
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: out and party and they live normal lives and like, I'm,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: you know, sixteen and my mom died, and he basically
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: says to her, nobody gets out of this life unscathed.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: And I don't know why that's that like struck me
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: so hard, but it's so true. I used to think
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: that my trauma and what I had been through And
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: by the way, this is just recent that I've tried
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: to get rid of it. But I'm like, I'm wearing this.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: This is like a badge of honor to me. It's
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: like a metal The shit that I've been through bitch.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Show me a person who hasn't been through shit. Now,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: that person deserves the fucking metal. Show me a person
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: who isn't traumatized by something, and that I will celebrate
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and go, you go, because we're all fucked up. It's
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: what life does.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, life really hurts physically, like at my scars, getting
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: so much better emotionally. But it's funny you say that
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: because I was on the airplane and I was thinking
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: the same thing last night.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Literally, the same thought was You're not special.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Now that's tough to swallow, right.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: What makes you think you're so special?
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I know, Well, because we're the main character in our stories. Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: When you're telling someone a story and they just sit
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: there and they're like, wow, that's crazy, and I'm like, no,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: that's not fucking crazy. Your Josh should be on the floor.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Then you have to remind yourself not that big of
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: a deal.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Self pity can be a bitch.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Oh I love to wallow in some self pity and
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: then I'm like, wait, what this is not serving anyone
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: right now? What am I doing? Shut the fuck up?
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: Get over yourself. There's a reason you didn't get that
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: role in Taylor Sheridan's show. Okay, but then they called
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: you back like three months later for another role. Okay,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: you didn't get that role, Like stop with this, Olf,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: But guess what. I could wake up tomorrow and I
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: could be the star of a new show, baby, And
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, no more self pity.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: It's always something.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you what's gonna blow your mind? Because
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: when I thought about this, it blew my mind how
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: quickly shit changes. You sit there in your victim mentality
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: of all of the things that you didn't get that
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: part right, happened in a matter of seconds. You audition,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: got a call, you didn't get the part. I think
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: of it this way. One night I had a dad.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: The next morning came and I no longer had a dad.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: That is how quickly shit can change. It can go
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: really great or it can go very badly. What are
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: you going to do with the cards you were dealt in?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Anything?
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Right? Every single day you're going to be given a
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: new test, whether it's with your business, your partner, your friendships.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Things may go left. You're going to learn from things,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: you hope, but it is certainly not the last time
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: that you're going to face that shit. I can sit
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: here and be so upset about my friendship with Katie
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: going south, and I learned a lot right, But there's
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: going to be a day that God decides to test
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: me again and I could blow up another friendship. I
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: pray to God that that doesn't happen and that I
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: use the tools, but there's no guarantee, and I could
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: have another life altering experience where I go. I wish
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I would have done things differently like that will happen. Hmm,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: isn't it crazy?
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Life is crazy, fucking wild.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: I just keep thinking the episode that we had with
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Christmas Diana and he's like, you too are going to
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: go your separate ways.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, God, damnit, are we going to get into
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: a fight again?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's not happening. It's amber I know.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: But when he said that, I literally wrote him recently,
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: I'm like, we need to talk like that. Yeah. No,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: I'm digesting. No, not about you and I just about
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: other life things. But I keep thinking of the time
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: that he said that, because I was watching the clip
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: and I was.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Like, gosh, notice that we asked him. We asked him
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: We were like, wait a minute, and he was like, no,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: just professionally.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: I have fun with you.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: I know. Here's the thing though, you know I love
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: a cake. But at the end of the day, we're
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: in charge of our own shit.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: If it goes left, it's because you and I chose
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to have it go left. Not yeah, friendship, but the
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: separation one goes left, one goes right. No, you're stuck
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: with me? Are you out of your mind? I know,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: like counting down the days until you get here. I
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: put it in my Google calendar.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: Did you do one of those things on Instagram, like
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: where you do the countdown? Oh my gosh, I.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Know, but I should. I should the twenty seventh we
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: have twenty days seems like a lot.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Twenty days?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Was the seventh you come in on? When this airs,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: we'll have a little less than twenty Vegas? What about Vegas?
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: One week?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: One week? Yes, one week to Vegas.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: All right, you guys, thank you for listening to another
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: episode of an Unlikely Affair. Amber. I love our Unlikely Affair.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna say ride or die. M I
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: love you, I love you too. I'll see you in
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Vegas and you guys will catch you next week for
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: another episode of an Unlikely Affair. Bye bye, Guys,