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The CIA and the Entertainment Industry · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
0:16
Speaker 1: theory podcast, with your hosts Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Hidar.
0:32
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy The Show. I'm your host
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Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me is co host. This week
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Speaker 2: I got a guest co host, Zach Johnston.
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Speaker 3: Is Here's happy to be back and back to talk
0:45
Speaker 3: about CIA and all that wonderful intrigue and entertainment.
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Speaker 2: It's so fun It's one of my favorite topics. Everyone
0:52
Speaker 2: knows Zach. You've been on three times now, maybe probably
0:56
Speaker 2: more than that, Yeah, something like that, three four returning
0:59
Speaker 2: toy and Zach Johnson.
1:01
Speaker 3: It's funny because this, I mean, people read the title
1:04
Speaker 3: of the episode, but this sort of came up just
1:06
Speaker 3: in chit chat because it's sort of People tend to
1:09
Speaker 3: be very dismissive whenever CIA is brought up around an entertainer,
1:13
Speaker 3: whether it be Katherin Bigelow or Taylor Swift or anything
1:15
Speaker 3: like that, and they're so dismissive about what the CIA does,
1:19
Speaker 3: where it's this thing. Do people not understand what they do?
1:22
Speaker 3: So we started talking about the history of the CIA
1:25
Speaker 3: working in the arts and how it's some of it's
1:27
Speaker 3: very obvious, and the CIA talks about it themselves, and
1:30
Speaker 3: this sort of came to fruition just looking at that
1:33
Speaker 3: and hopefully get a little education for people of how
1:36
Speaker 3: deeply the CIA has always been entrenched in the arts
1:40
Speaker 3: and especially music.
1:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not always to the detriment of the arts,
1:45
Speaker 2: as we'll find. Sometimes they're just like, oh, that's good
1:49
Speaker 2: for us if that gets popular, So they'll put money
1:51
Speaker 2: behind it.
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Speaker 4: Not CIA money.
1:53
Speaker 2: They don't send you an envelope of cash with it's
1:55
Speaker 2: CIA stamped on it, but I'll get you to the
1:58
Speaker 2: money that you need so you can flourish.
2:01
Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: It's sort of the thing where we understand shell companies exist,
2:04
Speaker 3: but think that Donald Trump is the only one making
2:07
Speaker 3: a shell company when it's like, no, CIA has tons
2:09
Speaker 3: of shell companies. They have production companies, and they have
2:12
Speaker 3: record labels, and they have art houses and galleries and
2:15
Speaker 3: things all over the world and in the United States
2:18
Speaker 3: and have been doing so since they started.
2:21
Speaker 2: And here's the thing, they fucking better as much tax
2:24
Speaker 2: money as we spend on them, they goddamn better have
2:27
Speaker 2: all of that shit, all of it.
2:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's sort of there's a slight irony to
2:33
Speaker 3: the fact that a lot of the great art created
2:36
Speaker 3: in the twentieth century was able to become great art
2:40
Speaker 3: because CIA was secretly funding it, Like with the modern
2:43
Speaker 3: art scene or with the jazz scene and things like that.
2:45
Speaker 3: Where where would those art scenes have been without that
2:49
Speaker 3: massive amount of money they would influx into there.
2:52
Speaker 2: What is interesting to me is how many articles and
2:55
Speaker 2: stories like this come directly from the CIA's website, right,
3:00
Speaker 2: not ashamed of it at all.
3:02
Speaker 3: It's interesting in that I think it's hangover from the
3:05
Speaker 3: Cold War, where it's like, we still have this idea
3:08
Speaker 3: that we were absolutely the good guys fighting the evil empire,
3:11
Speaker 3: and so it's something to be very proud of. This
3:13
Speaker 3: is going to be looked back in history is great.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if I agree. I don't know
3:18
Speaker 4: if I agree with him.
3:19
Speaker 2: I feel like history might one day look poorly upon
3:23
Speaker 2: the CIA unless they just orchestrate some coup that puts
3:27
Speaker 2: them in power forever, which.
3:29
Speaker 4: Which comes on.
3:31
Speaker 2: But they would, yeah, they wouldn't do that after they
3:33
Speaker 2: clearly tried it in nineteen eighty with Reagan.
3:36
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and that was a failure, Right, Nothing ever
3:39
Speaker 3: came to that. CIA had became president right.
3:42
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, and Reagan was really launch and pushing back
3:45
Speaker 2: on everything the CIA wanted to do in the eighties,
3:48
Speaker 2: especially in Latin America stuff like that.
3:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh man, Yeah, it's sort of whild And I
3:54
Speaker 3: think part of it is people simply don't know. You
3:56
Speaker 3: can't expect everybody to know everything about how the intelligence
4:00
Speaker 3: community in the US works here or abroad. People simply
4:03
Speaker 3: you can't follow everything. And so yeah, that's kind of
4:06
Speaker 3: why we're here, because this stuff starts at the beginning
4:08
Speaker 3: of even the pre CIA, the OSS. Where should we
4:11
Speaker 3: just jump right in with Yeah, so Miles Copeland Junior,
4:18
Speaker 3: who's one of the co founders of the CIA through
4:21
Speaker 3: the OSS, huge jazz guy, huge musician, lover just love
4:27
Speaker 3: jazz to the huge deree. And I think what's important
4:31
Speaker 3: to understand about the creation of the CIA with these
4:33
Speaker 3: co founding members, whether they were Nazis or Americans or
4:37
Speaker 3: what have you, is that they specifically recruited people who
4:41
Speaker 3: were journalists, who were movie producers, who were writers, who
4:43
Speaker 3: were artists, who were into all of these communities already.
4:46
Speaker 3: They didn't just go and be like, hey, we're going
4:47
Speaker 3: to just grab people randomly off the street who are
4:50
Speaker 3: in law enforcement. They specifically you would pull people out
4:53
Speaker 3: of these communities that they already existed in. And so
4:56
Speaker 3: part of that was with Michael Copeland, who was huge
4:59
Speaker 3: in the jazz scene. He sort of brought of course
5:01
Speaker 3: he worked in the Middle East and things like that
5:03
Speaker 3: with them, has his whole career. But part of the
5:05
Speaker 3: reason people like him were pulled in is because they
5:07
Speaker 3: already had contact in those scenes and could use those
5:10
Speaker 3: people to their benefit. So if you even look at
5:14
Speaker 3: without getting too far off track here because we're talking
5:16
Speaker 3: about music, but you know the original Animal Farm film
5:19
Speaker 3: that was produced in the UK that was funded by
5:21
Speaker 3: the CIA. The CIA actually went to Sonya Orwell and
5:25
Speaker 3: got the rights from her based on her wanting to
5:28
Speaker 3: meet Clark Gable, and the CIA set up that meeting
5:31
Speaker 3: so they get buy the rights and then funded that
5:33
Speaker 3: film fully and changed the end to make it purely
5:35
Speaker 3: anti communists. So that's the sort of shit that the
5:38
Speaker 3: CIA started with. I mean, that's in the fifties, such
5:41
Speaker 3: a long time ago, right, and of course they're not
5:44
Speaker 3: doing that now in film.
5:45
Speaker 2: But I know, and what I find interesting about Miles Copeland,
5:51
Speaker 2: I don't think we've even said it yet, but he
5:54
Speaker 2: is the father of Stuart Copeland, who was the drama
6:00
Speaker 2: in the Police. Yes, and I think that is the
6:04
Speaker 2: kind of coincidence that people don't take seriously enough.
6:09
Speaker 4: One of the.
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Speaker 2: Things you will read a lot if you start delving
6:14
Speaker 2: into the CIA and their various shenanigans over the years.
6:19
Speaker 2: They love a family band movies make it seem like
6:23
Speaker 2: the CIA guy is going home and being like, oh, no,
6:27
Speaker 2: I don't want you to know what I'm up to.
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Speaker 4: Bullshit.
6:30
Speaker 2: He's going home and indoctrinating that shit into his whole family.
6:34
Speaker 2: So they fucking do CIA shit too. You saw that
6:37
Speaker 2: with Jonestown. Aside from Jim Jones, that entire upper level,
6:41
Speaker 2: all the management all came from one family, Layton family.
6:45
Speaker 2: And in this case you get Miles Copeland Junior, one
6:50
Speaker 2: of the founding members of the CIA. He's got a son, Stewart,
6:54
Speaker 2: who's in a band called the Police. For one thing,
6:57
Speaker 2: it's like, these motherfuckers think they're slick, but think about
7:01
Speaker 2: when the police arrive on the scene, right when the
7:04
Speaker 2: punk movement is starting. The police are magically right there,
7:08
Speaker 2: and we're supposed to take it as total coincidence that
7:11
Speaker 2: the founder of the CIA's son just happens to be
7:16
Speaker 2: in a band that stumbles upon the scene right when
7:19
Speaker 2: punk is taking off, and then his other son, Miles Copeland,
7:24
Speaker 2: the third starts a record label that is where the
7:28
Speaker 2: cutting edge of the new wave movement. So at what
7:32
Speaker 2: point do you accept that that's not a coincidence and
7:35
Speaker 2: that maybe the guy who played drums on Every Breath
7:37
Speaker 2: You Take is also in the fucking CIA.
7:41
Speaker 3: And also Every Breath You Take famously about nineteen eighty
7:44
Speaker 3: four Georgia Orwell's book is Yes, that's specifically about that book.
7:50
Speaker 3: It's about it. It's yeah, it's the government where big
7:52
Speaker 3: Brothers watching you Every Breath you Take? And I'd always
7:55
Speaker 3: heard it was about a stalker Well big Brothers. Yeah,
8:00
Speaker 3: it's the sort of thing where, yeah, it's sting and
8:03
Speaker 3: I think Copeland are both. You can look up on
8:05
Speaker 3: to whatever when they talk about making that song is
8:07
Speaker 3: specifically about nineteen eighty four, which again coincidence. I mean,
8:12
Speaker 3: come on, that's a book that the CIA used through
8:14
Speaker 3: the USIA extensively throughout the world when we put them
8:18
Speaker 3: in our American libraries because it's such an anti communist
8:22
Speaker 3: blok perceived anti authoritarianism, but whatever, we're not that nuanced sometimes,
8:27
Speaker 3: and that's just it. I think Miles the Third actually
8:30
Speaker 3: says in an interview that's on the CIA website, It's like,
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Speaker 3: I had a choice. I could go in CIA like
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Speaker 3: my dad, or I could go into music, and I
8:38
Speaker 3: chose to go into music. I'm like, if you have
8:40
Speaker 3: that choice, you're already in the CIA.
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Speaker 2: Dude, absolutely, And also your dad did both.
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Speaker 4: Why can't you do?
8:47
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, and just not say you're doing the other
8:49
Speaker 3: side because it's more fun that way.
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Speaker 2: And people fail to take into account that the CIA's
8:55
Speaker 2: original and still kind of their mission is just gathering
8:59
Speaker 2: in information and figuring out what to do with it. Yes,
9:03
Speaker 2: And the gathering of that information takes a lot of people. Yes,
9:07
Speaker 2: And so sometimes a person's job is just, hey, monitor
9:11
Speaker 2: this fucking magazine or listen to this podcast, or watch
9:15
Speaker 2: this foreign TV show, and if you see anything that
9:19
Speaker 2: you think we would want to know about, just pass
9:21
Speaker 2: it along.
9:22
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's just.
9:22
Speaker 2: That being a CIA asset doesn't always mean you're Jack
9:28
Speaker 2: Reacher or whatever.
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Speaker 4: The fuck I don't know, is Jack Reacher a ciak?
9:32
Speaker 3: And then some of this is so on the nose.
9:33
Speaker 3: CIA literally has an apartment that's the psychological warfare department. Yeah,
9:38
Speaker 3: it's how like, how do you get around the fact that, well,
9:42
Speaker 3: how do you do that? Then? If you're going to
9:43
Speaker 3: do psychological warfare, that's not shooting guns, that's not beating
9:47
Speaker 3: people up in the streets and stabbing people with poison pens.
9:50
Speaker 3: That's using media and culture to fuck with people's brains
9:54
Speaker 3: to get them to think the way you want to think.
9:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the biggest misconceptions about the
9:58
Speaker 2: fifties and sixties is that nothing came of MK ultra.
10:03
Speaker 2: In the pushback you always get with MK ultra because
10:06
Speaker 2: that before it was discovered, huge conspiracy theory, and then
10:10
Speaker 2: we find out it's real, and the pushback you always
10:12
Speaker 2: get is nothing came of it, and they were just
10:15
Speaker 2: trying to work on interrogation techniques, and one that shit
10:19
Speaker 2: lasted decades. It would not have lasted decades if nothing ever, ever,
10:25
Speaker 2: ever came of it. And I know people don't want
10:29
Speaker 2: to think about it, maybe, but look at all these
10:31
Speaker 2: weird assassinations that happened, especially on into the eighties. John Lennon,
10:37
Speaker 2: the attempted assassination of Reagan. It's all very MK ultra shit.
10:42
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA wrote Catcher in
10:45
Speaker 2: the rye.
10:46
Speaker 4: JD.
10:46
Speaker 2: Salinger writes one book and then fucked off forever.
10:49
Speaker 4: Yeah. Why because he went back to his desk job, right.
10:52
Speaker 3: But they're always so on the nose with his stuff.
10:54
Speaker 3: Like I said, with the Animal Farms thing, they were
10:56
Speaker 3: proud that they produced that film and made it an
10:58
Speaker 3: anticonomous stone. Did you watch that John Lennon documentary on
11:01
Speaker 3: Apple TV about his death?
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Speaker 4: I did not.
11:04
Speaker 3: It's interesting. I understand that Lenin's a weird figure to
11:07
Speaker 3: begin with. Taking that away. The whole Mark David Chapman
11:10
Speaker 3: thing is just so fucking weird. The whole way the
11:13
Speaker 3: murder went down is so weird, where he just sat
11:16
Speaker 3: there and started reading the book after he shot him.
11:18
Speaker 3: And then Milton fucking Cline of all people, Milton Kleining,
11:23
Speaker 3: the psychologist behind MK Ultra for CIA, was the only
11:28
Speaker 3: psychologist that was brought in to interview him. After he
11:31
Speaker 3: brought him into interview him, Mark David Chapman had a
11:33
Speaker 3: massive freak out where he was climbing the walls and
11:35
Speaker 3: then a couple days later went completely silent and said,
11:38
Speaker 3: I'm guilty. God told me to say I'm guilty.
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Speaker 1: Hmm.
11:41
Speaker 3: Ought that a altar got involved in that happened must
11:44
Speaker 3: be a coincidence.
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Speaker 4: That all sounds like coincidence to me. What the hell?
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Speaker 2: People, of course something came from MK Ultra. We got
11:52
Speaker 2: robot of Fassins out of it.
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Speaker 3: It seems like it seems like especially and they actually
11:57
Speaker 3: addressed this in the second episode of that documentary pretty deeply.
12:02
Speaker 3: It don't go so far to say that it's provable,
12:05
Speaker 3: but it's weird. It's so fucking weird that of all
12:07
Speaker 3: the people in New York, all the psychologists they could
12:09
Speaker 3: have brought in with this, they brought in Milton Kleine.
12:14
Speaker 3: And then obviously, if you look at John Lennon, he
12:16
Speaker 3: was a huge force in New York. He had tens
12:18
Speaker 3: of thousands of people protesting in the streets, and he
12:21
Speaker 3: was coming out of retirement, and all those interviews John
12:24
Speaker 3: Lennon was doing in nineteen eighty was going right back
12:27
Speaker 3: on that of Hey, we can't be apathetic against this government.
12:29
Speaker 3: We have to get back in the streets and we
12:31
Speaker 3: have to fight this war machine. And oh, two weeks later,
12:34
Speaker 3: he's dead.
12:34
Speaker 4: Yeah.
12:35
Speaker 2: I don't know how you write stuff like that off
12:38
Speaker 2: as a coincidence, and one that we forgot to mention
12:42
Speaker 2: Bob Marley. Yes, we did an episode a while back.
12:46
Speaker 2: It had all these weird audio issues, so we should
12:48
Speaker 2: almost do it again. But it was about a Netflix
12:53
Speaker 2: documentary that is about the time Bob Marley was almost
12:57
Speaker 2: assassinated in Jamaica, and I think think seventy six, seventy
13:02
Speaker 2: six or seventy eight. That part's not important, but what
13:05
Speaker 2: is important is the cameraman who is documenting this concert
13:10
Speaker 2: that Bob Marley was putting on used to work for
13:12
Speaker 2: the CIA, right, and people are you are we really
13:16
Speaker 2: supposed to be like, oh well that's nothing, they did say,
13:19
Speaker 2: used to so he doesn't work at CIA now, it's
13:23
Speaker 2: like fuck it, of course he does. Yeah, And just
13:27
Speaker 2: as if by magic, Bob Marley almost gets assassinated while
13:31
Speaker 2: that guy's around, go fucking figure.
13:33
Speaker 3: Go figure, and then coincidentally gets form of cancer that
13:37
Speaker 3: kills him immediately. Yeah, which I mean, yeah, that quincisence.
13:41
Speaker 3: To be clear, coincidences do happen like that, people get
13:45
Speaker 3: sick and die. Also, CIA very well known for getting
13:48
Speaker 3: people sick and dying.
13:49
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly.
13:50
Speaker 3: I mean they are on the record during the Church
13:52
Speaker 3: Committee of being like, hey, we use these toxins to
13:54
Speaker 3: kill people. I mean they literally show it.
13:58
Speaker 4: Yeah.
13:58
Speaker 2: If I think the next piece of conspiracy the show
14:01
Speaker 2: merch I want to produce for no one to buy,
14:03
Speaker 2: Hey don't mind us, we don't need to make extra
14:06
Speaker 2: money or anything, would be a shirt with the shell
14:08
Speaker 2: fish talks and gone on it. Yeah, they have a
14:10
Speaker 2: piece that we're going to be a conversation starter if
14:13
Speaker 2: you wear that out in public. But people are going
14:16
Speaker 2: to be like, what movie is that from? And you
14:18
Speaker 2: get to say the Church Committee hearings, go look.
14:21
Speaker 3: That up, that's from real life from motherfuckers. But so
14:24
Speaker 3: with what Copeland sort of started in the fifties, which
14:27
Speaker 3: I think is pertinent to today because it has not changed,
14:32
Speaker 3: is using musicians and artists on winningly again. Nobody's nobody
14:37
Speaker 3: took Louis Armstrong or Paullock to Langley and was like, Hey,
14:41
Speaker 3: you're going to work for us now to be a
14:43
Speaker 3: patriotic American. When I was living in Prague, there's a
14:46
Speaker 3: huge historical pride in the fact that all these black
14:49
Speaker 3: jazz musicians came to Prague in the nineteen sixties and
14:53
Speaker 3: did concerts, you know, Billie Holiday, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis,
14:57
Speaker 3: all these huge black artists. In their point of vie.
15:00
Speaker 3: It was like this was a place where they could
15:02
Speaker 3: come and do their music without racism. Basically, yes, And
15:06
Speaker 3: what was what we found out was actually happening is
15:08
Speaker 3: people like Copeland and CIA was shell funding them to
15:13
Speaker 3: go there to show how great American culture was as
15:15
Speaker 3: part of the Cold War. And obviously they were going
15:18
Speaker 3: to be on progue. They were going to Poland, they
15:20
Speaker 3: were going to Congo, they were going to Yeah, they're
15:23
Speaker 3: going to the Middle East, Lebanon, They're going to Indonesia.
15:26
Speaker 3: And some of it gets really really dark beyond oh,
15:30
Speaker 3: they're just going there to show off American culture. A
15:32
Speaker 3: lot of it was using and this is all documented
15:35
Speaker 3: on the CIA website TA dot gov. This isn't stuff
15:39
Speaker 3: that's on some Reddit threads. This is stuff where it's like, no,
15:42
Speaker 3: this is what we did and we're proud of it.
15:44
Speaker 2: And you know, why wouldn't they be because it is
15:47
Speaker 2: technically their job. And that's why even I know there
15:53
Speaker 2: are people being sent out right now. Again, I mentioned
15:56
Speaker 2: that Department of Defense group. They have more undercover operatives
16:01
Speaker 2: than the CIA, or so the CIA would like us
16:03
Speaker 2: to believe. What do you think they're doing, right, You
16:06
Speaker 2: think they're not showing up when something weird's happening in
16:09
Speaker 2: the United States that the government might want to get
16:11
Speaker 2: a handle on. I've said it so many times. If
16:14
Speaker 2: you're doing anything counter to the government, no matter how small,
16:19
Speaker 2: be very suspicious when new people show up wanting to
16:22
Speaker 2: help out, right, because that could so easily be the government.
16:26
Speaker 2: Don't get hung up on this idea that I would
16:29
Speaker 2: never have enough of an ego to think the government
16:31
Speaker 2: would want to follow me.
16:34
Speaker 4: Yeah they would, Yeah, they would.
16:36
Speaker 2: You never know what you might fucking blossom into if
16:39
Speaker 2: they don't nip that shit in the bud.
16:41
Speaker 3: Especially if you have a following, because even a small
16:44
Speaker 3: following can turn into a movement so easily. I mean,
16:47
Speaker 3: just this is a kind of dumb example, but look
16:49
Speaker 3: at somebody like Joe Rogan whoever being a comedian, UFC
16:52
Speaker 3: Fight color commentator to having the biggest audience in the
16:58
Speaker 3: fucking country. Yeah, that's dangerous. Whether it doesn't matter what
17:03
Speaker 3: side anybody's on or where it falls, it's dangerous to
17:06
Speaker 3: the status quo because it's somebody new. You don't know
17:09
Speaker 3: what the fuck they're going to say, what they're going
17:10
Speaker 3: to do with their audience. Going back to John Lennon,
17:12
Speaker 3: Look what he did with his audience. He turned Beatles
17:15
Speaker 3: fans into people who were marching in the streets and
17:17
Speaker 3: tens of thousands in the streets of Manhattan against the war.
17:20
Speaker 3: You know so, and I don't care what anybody says.
17:22
Speaker 3: People like Taylor Swift today, she could change in elections.
17:26
Speaker 3: They talk about this in the Guardian when all that
17:28
Speaker 3: psyopshit was going on last year, whereas like no, people
17:31
Speaker 3: are like, yeah, I will, I would march with her
17:34
Speaker 3: and I would vote differently if she told me to,
17:36
Speaker 3: And that sort of got lost in the US. The
17:38
Speaker 3: UK ten or the Guardian tends to report stuff like
17:41
Speaker 3: that a little bit better, yes, because they are owned
17:44
Speaker 3: by a charitable trust. They're not owned by a conglomerate corporation.
17:47
Speaker 3: Makes it a little bit different. And their trust is
17:49
Speaker 3: only journalists instead of people who are also on the
17:51
Speaker 3: board of Raytheon and DuPont and Boeing, and so you
17:56
Speaker 3: see a little bit better journalism there, not that it's
17:58
Speaker 3: perfect but that's that is one Taylor Swift had a
18:03
Speaker 3: look at the Golden Globes and probably put Joy Koy's
18:06
Speaker 3: career back a decade. That's power, dude, and game recognized game.
18:11
Speaker 2: And think about what we always hear about elections in
18:16
Speaker 2: the United States right now, it's we're all voting.
18:19
Speaker 4: I mean, we're not all voting, but no.
18:21
Speaker 2: Matter how many of us are voting, coming down to
18:24
Speaker 2: like ten twenty thousand votes in a few different states.
18:28
Speaker 2: So it doesn't take a huge following to push that
18:32
Speaker 2: kind of needle no where. Maybe you only have sway
18:36
Speaker 2: over three or four thousand people, But what if you're
18:38
Speaker 2: part of a bigger collective and they're all saying that
18:41
Speaker 2: same thing and they all have that smaller following, that's
18:45
Speaker 2: going to amount to a bigger following. The government has
18:48
Speaker 2: the resources to send people out to all of them, Yes,
18:52
Speaker 2: every single one of them. The government has someone they
18:55
Speaker 2: can send your way who will func shit up.
18:58
Speaker 3: And we've been doing it, commented very well. We've been
19:00
Speaker 3: doing it. I mean Elvis, we had FBI in his entourage.
19:04
Speaker 3: I mean, if you look at even the hip hop scene,
19:07
Speaker 3: there's so many connections to both the CIA FBI, various
19:11
Speaker 3: other organizations da blah blah blah in the eighties and nineties,
19:15
Speaker 3: through the crack cocaine epidemic, which was fairly well documented
19:19
Speaker 3: to be CIA backed, but also come on through the
19:22
Speaker 3: so called secret meetings that people like ice Cube talk about,
19:25
Speaker 3: where CIA helped direct hip hop away from public policy
19:29
Speaker 3: and social justice and change towards Doctor Dre says in
19:33
Speaker 3: an MFS, I'm rapped about big screen TVs and bitches
19:36
Speaker 3: and parties.
19:36
Speaker 2: Here's my thing about ice Cube, saying that I've always
19:40
Speaker 2: had a pet conspiracy theory that ice Cube is actually
19:44
Speaker 2: the government. So coming from ice Cube, I believe it
19:47
Speaker 2: because I feel like he's the one the government went
19:50
Speaker 2: to and was like, Hey, you want to maybe change
19:53
Speaker 2: rap music for us a little.
19:55
Speaker 4: Bit, We'll tell you what to do. You think you're
19:57
Speaker 4: the guy to do it? And like fucking.
20:01
Speaker 2: Ramification free career that Anti Semi has had.
20:05
Speaker 3: That's what he is gonna get away with.
20:08
Speaker 4: Absolutely the Mel Gibson of rap.
20:11
Speaker 2: And you can talk about love and ice Cube all
20:14
Speaker 2: you want and almost never will anyone be like, oh
20:17
Speaker 2: so you fucking hate Jews, right, but Mel Gibson say
20:21
Speaker 2: you love Mel Gibson movie, people are gonna be like
20:23
Speaker 2: you fucking animal, you fucking monsteron right.
20:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that might be part of it
20:28
Speaker 3: because he put out that disc track where he's very
20:30
Speaker 3: anti Semitic and what was that eighty nine or something
20:33
Speaker 3: like that, But I bet that was just like it's
20:35
Speaker 3: like a cold missul for CIA where it's like, ooh,
20:37
Speaker 3: we can get to this guy.
20:39
Speaker 4: Oh man. The album that song is on, he kind.
20:43
Speaker 2: Of predicted the La riots. There's a song on there
20:48
Speaker 2: called Black Korea that, for one thing, is just objectively racist.
20:54
Speaker 2: It is about a minute and a half of the
20:56
Speaker 2: most racist shit you will ever hear. He never gets
20:59
Speaker 2: called to ask for it. He gets to do fucking
21:01
Speaker 2: kids movies. I'm telling you, I think ice Cube is
21:04
Speaker 2: the government.
21:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's something there that gives him that hall pass man.
21:08
Speaker 3: And going back to the early years of the CIA
21:12
Speaker 3: and with musicians, that was the point. These people got
21:15
Speaker 3: hall passes because they were indirectly again indirectly working for
21:20
Speaker 3: the government. And you look at somebody like Louis Armstrong.
21:23
Speaker 3: He got to do this shit all around the world
21:26
Speaker 3: and say it gets dark is when he went to
21:29
Speaker 3: Congo inadvertently he was responsible for La Mumba getting assassinated
21:35
Speaker 3: and removed a and Mabutu coming in and completely fucking
21:39
Speaker 3: that country over to this day, to the point that
21:42
Speaker 3: we are still running operations now using the Rwanda militias
21:46
Speaker 3: and fucking that country over so badly. Right now today
21:49
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, nobody talks about it or cares.
21:52
Speaker 3: And it's just like, Okay, Louis Armstrong didn't kill Lamumba,
21:55
Speaker 3: but he had a hand in it indirectly.
21:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is the other thing.
22:00
Speaker 2: And it's important to point out people might not always
22:03
Speaker 2: know that they're working with the CIA. I don't think
22:06
Speaker 2: we'll talk about Jackson Pollock in a minute. We can
22:09
Speaker 2: move on to it right now because modern art, American
22:13
Speaker 2: modern art, Jackson Pollock, back when people at Jackson Pollock
22:16
Speaker 2: were still painting and not fatally drunk driving their vehicles,
22:21
Speaker 2: the CIA was using their shit as a promotional tool.
22:24
Speaker 2: And if you look at that group of artists, there
22:27
Speaker 2: are all people who probably would have been more likely
22:30
Speaker 2: to side with Russia in a lot of matters, but
22:35
Speaker 2: the CIA didn't care. I mean, CIA cares about that,
22:38
Speaker 2: but they were like, no, this, we can use this
22:41
Speaker 2: to make the United States look good overseas.
22:44
Speaker 3: And part of the policy of the CIA back then
22:47
Speaker 3: was was like, Okay, we take these struggling artists who
22:50
Speaker 3: are prone to socialism and we make them just fucking rich,
22:53
Speaker 3: and they'll be Americans because then they'll be written. And
22:56
Speaker 3: that was stated policy. That's again not conspiracy, that's the
23:00
Speaker 3: state of fucking policy this AA. So they would indirectly
23:03
Speaker 3: fund art shows, art galleries, tours, all these stuff for
23:08
Speaker 3: modern artists in the fifties that probably wouldn't have made
23:11
Speaker 3: a mark had they not had that funding, because let's
23:14
Speaker 3: face it, you know this just through your entertainment, your
23:16
Speaker 3: working entertainment. If you don't have the money to back
23:19
Speaker 3: this shit up, it's really hard to break through, just straight.
23:22
Speaker 4: Up, is sure, is yeah?
23:24
Speaker 3: And so if suddenly someone like Jackson Paulck, whose wife
23:28
Speaker 3: was already deep in the art scene, of course, so
23:30
Speaker 3: it wasn't like he was never gonna make it, but
23:33
Speaker 3: not that big to the point now where he's considered
23:35
Speaker 3: one of the greatest of all times while he was alive.
23:38
Speaker 3: That was directly fucking funded by the CIA, And there's
23:41
Speaker 3: receipts to back it up. There's plenty of testimony to
23:44
Speaker 3: blot back it up. It's not again, it's a conspiracy
23:47
Speaker 3: that's real, mk Ultra. It's a conspiracy that's real. And
23:50
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that it's something that is completely outside
23:53
Speaker 3: of the realm of reason, because conspiracies happen all the
23:56
Speaker 3: fucking time. We just find out about probably one percent
23:58
Speaker 3: of them.
23:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we'll link to an independent.
24:02
Speaker 2: Article about the CIA and modern art, and one it
24:07
Speaker 2: mentions that even back when that scene was active, they
24:10
Speaker 2: were like.
24:11
Speaker 4: Is the CIA doing this?
24:12
Speaker 2: Are we getting CIA money? It was a rumor in
24:15
Speaker 2: that scene that guys, I think.
24:17
Speaker 4: The CIA might be backing us.
24:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what are you going to do in that situation, right,
24:23
Speaker 2: You're not going to track down where the money's coming
24:26
Speaker 2: from and tell them to stop.
24:27
Speaker 4: You're getting to pursue your passion.
24:30
Speaker 2: And so what if the CIA's taking that shit to
24:33
Speaker 2: Russia and being like, hey, you know how here all
24:36
Speaker 2: of your paintings have to show people working hard and
24:39
Speaker 2: loving the government. Look what you get to do in
24:41
Speaker 2: the United States way better? Right?
24:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't you hate communism?
24:45
Speaker 2: Now?
24:46
Speaker 3: That's it as well. I think people get mistaken of
24:49
Speaker 3: these big, huge movements of oh you need to do
24:51
Speaker 3: a fucking land invasion and blah blah blah, and all
24:54
Speaker 3: these big events that are between countries and cultures. And
24:58
Speaker 3: it's not that it's chipping away a tiny bit at
25:01
Speaker 3: a time and it's get by a million cuts. Is
25:04
Speaker 3: what the whole intelligence community works as. They don't work
25:07
Speaker 3: as an Oh, we're going to fucking replay D Day
25:10
Speaker 3: and fight the Nazis. They work in. We're going to
25:13
Speaker 3: slowly pick apart every single thread we can and tell
25:17
Speaker 3: the sweater falls apart. And that's kind of the dissonance
25:21
Speaker 3: I think people miss in what the intelligence operations do.
25:26
Speaker 4: Yeah, in their.
25:27
Speaker 3: Essence, it's called in. It's called espionage and intelligence. It's
25:30
Speaker 3: not called you know, hot warfare.
25:33
Speaker 2: Right, And this idea that they were supporting modern art,
25:37
Speaker 2: like you said, it's confirmed, it's not a rumor. The
25:42
Speaker 2: article will link to talks a lot about the history
25:45
Speaker 2: of how it came to be. It was part of
25:48
Speaker 2: a policy called long leash, and it's really read this article.
25:54
Speaker 2: If you're one of those people that's skeptical of the
25:57
Speaker 2: idea that hey, maybe that singer is also in this
26:00
Speaker 2: It's possible.
26:01
Speaker 4: Maybe. If you're skeptical of it, read this article.
26:04
Speaker 3: Yeah. But also there's this thing as well where I
26:06
Speaker 3: think there are some cases and the whole Elvis thing
26:10
Speaker 3: with the FBI kind of plays into this where I
26:12
Speaker 3: bet there are a lot of artists where they could
26:15
Speaker 3: full on reach out, bring them into Langley and be like, listen,
26:18
Speaker 3: you have some amazing power, we believe in you. How
26:21
Speaker 3: about we help you out. And I think there are
26:24
Speaker 3: people out there that would say, yes, oh, absolutely, you're
26:26
Speaker 3: going back to kind of the inception of CIA. They
26:29
Speaker 3: had people in Paramount as executives. They had people in
26:33
Speaker 3: Warner Brothers as executives who would just sit there and
26:36
Speaker 3: read scripts and look for the right writers, the right directors,
26:40
Speaker 3: the right actors, and they'd bring them in and be like, hey,
26:42
Speaker 3: we're doing this. Do you want to be patriotic or not?
26:45
Speaker 3: Do you want to fight for your country or not?
26:47
Speaker 3: And of course at that time, you have a lot
26:50
Speaker 3: of people coming off World War Two where they had
26:52
Speaker 3: fought over there and they had seen the horrificness of
26:55
Speaker 3: all that, and then CIA comes along, or I six
26:58
Speaker 3: comes along or whatever, and says, hey, let's avoid that
27:01
Speaker 3: and let's fight them instead of in the streets, let's
27:03
Speaker 3: fight them in the art galleries. Let's fight them on
27:05
Speaker 3: the radio, Let's fight them in the movie theaters. Yes,
27:08
Speaker 3: that's tempting, man. I can see people like Catherine Bigelow,
27:11
Speaker 3: who obviously makes a lot of CIA positive films with
27:15
Speaker 3: the help of the CIA, being like, Yeah, let's throw
27:18
Speaker 3: a bone to patriotism and our soldiers and make this
27:21
Speaker 3: movie like zero Dr thirty or fucking hurt Locker.
27:25
Speaker 4: Yeah.
27:26
Speaker 2: And one of the other things that's brought up in
27:28
Speaker 2: this article is that this was a thing the CIA
27:31
Speaker 2: was interested in immediately upon being founded. And of course
27:35
Speaker 2: they were. If one third of the founding members was
27:38
Speaker 2: also fucking playing sacks in the corner and hitting an
27:44
Speaker 2: upright base while they're talking about destroying communism, of course
27:49
Speaker 2: they were interested in it. And this article mentions that
27:52
Speaker 2: the CIA set up a division called the prop Baganda
27:57
Speaker 2: Assets Inventory prop A. And I just want to say
28:01
Speaker 2: that word again before people who think it doesn't apply
28:04
Speaker 2: to this country. Holy shit, it sure does. And here
28:08
Speaker 2: is a terrifying passage from this article, dismayed that the
28:12
Speaker 2: appeal communism still had for many intellectuals and artists in
28:16
Speaker 2: the West. The new agency set up a division, the
28:19
Speaker 2: Propaganda Assets Inventory which at its peak could influence more
28:24
Speaker 2: than eight hundred newspapers, magazine and public information organizations. They
28:30
Speaker 2: joked that it was like a Wurlitzer jukebox. When the
28:33
Speaker 2: CIA pushed a button, it could hear whatever tune it
28:37
Speaker 2: wanted playing across the world.
28:40
Speaker 4: And that's in the fucking forties.
28:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine what they're up to now with social media
28:46
Speaker 2: and streaming and messaging apps.
28:50
Speaker 4: It's so much easier now, so much.
28:52
Speaker 3: I mean, I was this is sort of tangentially related.
28:55
Speaker 3: When we grew up, we had three four channels, maybe
28:57
Speaker 3: we had cable, but they were all Americans unless you
29:00
Speaker 3: lived on a border state right where you would get
29:02
Speaker 3: Telenovella or you'd get a CBC or something like that.
29:05
Speaker 3: Then satellite dishes came around and maybe you got Deutschevella
29:08
Speaker 3: and BBC or something like that. But that was super
29:10
Speaker 3: super super rare well into the nineties and two thousands, right,
29:14
Speaker 3: So our generation grew up with an American media period.
29:18
Speaker 3: Today kids are growing up, but we have everything. We
29:21
Speaker 3: can watch Indian movies on Netflix, we can watch Korean
29:23
Speaker 3: TV shows on Apple TV. We can listen to every
29:26
Speaker 3: fucking thing from everywhere on YouTube or Spotify, we have
29:29
Speaker 3: access to everything, which also means everybody else kind of
29:32
Speaker 3: has access to everything. Obviously, there are internet's quality issues
29:35
Speaker 3: around the world that change, but that means it has
29:38
Speaker 3: gotten so much easier to infiltrate all these things and
29:42
Speaker 3: manipulate them. Because everything's everywhere now, you can choose which
29:46
Speaker 3: country's media you want to be a fan of and
29:49
Speaker 3: be a fan of that media so much more easily
29:51
Speaker 3: now than ever before. And so for situations like this
29:55
Speaker 3: as an intelligence where it's a propaganda arm and literally
29:59
Speaker 3: cyclog logical warfare and propaganda are the number one and
30:02
Speaker 3: number two sort of missions of that service, it's so
30:06
Speaker 3: so so much more easier than having to put something
30:09
Speaker 3: on fucking Voice of America on the radio that somebody
30:13
Speaker 3: might tune into if they're allowed to have a radio.
30:16
Speaker 3: Now it's like people are on YouTube and TikTok and
30:18
Speaker 3: can just scroll through this shit and see it instantly.
30:21
Speaker 3: And you're telling me they're not using this as much
30:23
Speaker 3: as they possibly can to their highest benefit.
30:25
Speaker 2: I also would not be surprised if it at some
30:30
Speaker 2: point the CIA was involved in the development of streaming music,
30:35
Speaker 2: right because there is a scientific principle paradox of choice,
30:41
Speaker 2: which basically, once you have access to too much stuff,
30:45
Speaker 2: it's almost as bad as having.
30:47
Speaker 4: Access to nothing.
30:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's so much out there now that it's
30:52
Speaker 2: like everyone has a chance and everything sort of matters,
30:56
Speaker 2: and at that point, does anything matter? And I feel
31:00
Speaker 2: like music has gotten cheapened to the point that we're
31:04
Speaker 2: never really gonna have to worry about a huge protest
31:08
Speaker 2: song that's really pushing the needle in one direction or another,
31:13
Speaker 2: unless it comes from someone like Taylor Swift, because there's
31:18
Speaker 2: no we all have so many choices. We might know
31:21
Speaker 2: about that song for a day and then there's gonna
31:24
Speaker 2: be one hundred gas album.
31:25
Speaker 3: And you've touched on this before very well, in the
31:28
Speaker 3: fact that there are no Trump protest songs none. No,
31:31
Speaker 3: I mean if there were, there certainly didn't break through
31:34
Speaker 3: the ether.
31:35
Speaker 2: Eminem went out I believe three days before the election.
31:39
Speaker 4: It's like, no rush, fuck face, thanks, but.
31:43
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Remember the Bush era, everybody
31:45
Speaker 3: fucking had one.
31:46
Speaker 2: Oh wait, I should point out the one big Trump
31:50
Speaker 2: protest song, Fuck Donald Trump, featuring YG and a rapper
31:55
Speaker 2: who was killed in weird MK ultra fashion in Los.
31:58
Speaker 4: Angeles, Yipsie huss to Hustle. There you go.
32:01
Speaker 2: There's an interview with a rapper. I believe it's Little Boozy.
32:05
Speaker 2: I think he calls himself Boozy badass now. And they
32:08
Speaker 2: asked him why he didn't make any songs about Trump,
32:11
Speaker 2: and he was like, because Trump will have the CIA
32:13
Speaker 2: kill me, damn.
32:15
Speaker 4: And that's Vallid Bush. There were so many, so many, and.
32:20
Speaker 3: Even Reagan and Clinton all those years through, I mean
32:24
Speaker 3: even fucking Neil Young in Ohio. There's always been these
32:27
Speaker 3: great protest songs against the powers to be and I think, God,
32:31
Speaker 3: I can't remember who didn't know. I'm sorry, but somebody,
32:33
Speaker 3: Oh it was fucking of all people, who was Bill
32:36
Speaker 3: Maher said this in one of his New Rules, which
32:39
Speaker 3: I'm not a Bill f mar Fan. I'm not trying
32:41
Speaker 3: to support him, but he brought up so much of
32:43
Speaker 3: our mainstream music is about fucking Gucci and Levaton and
32:46
Speaker 3: having a Tesla and lean so excited to be an
32:49
Speaker 3: ultra capitalist, rich prick and have all this wealth, all
32:53
Speaker 3: this bullshit commercialized fucking show off prap from Lady Gaga
32:59
Speaker 3: to rappers, fucking dealor shift to everybody. And he's like,
33:02
Speaker 3: what the fuck happened to the protest song, what the
33:04
Speaker 3: fuck happened to music being about something aspirational that wasn't
33:08
Speaker 3: fucking capitalism. Yeah, a blind pig finds a truffle every
33:11
Speaker 3: now and then.
33:13
Speaker 2: Speaking of that, not to keep going back to my
33:16
Speaker 2: tangent about celebrities who I think might be government agents,
33:20
Speaker 2: I would also throw Ll cool J into that mix
33:25
Speaker 2: because if you look at people, always focus on, well,
33:29
Speaker 2: gangster rap came along and killed conscious rap, because if
33:33
Speaker 2: people aren't familiar rap up until gangster rap happened, it
33:38
Speaker 2: was a movement.
33:39
Speaker 4: It was a political movement.
33:41
Speaker 2: You had some rappers, even if a rapper's whole fucking
33:45
Speaker 2: image was I'm just.
33:46
Speaker 4: The best rapper in the world.
33:48
Speaker 2: That's all I really want to do, they'd have a
33:50
Speaker 2: song about how the black community should stop using drugs.
33:54
Speaker 2: They would have a conscious song on that album. Yes,
33:58
Speaker 2: every fucking time. And gangster rap came along and killed
34:02
Speaker 2: that in one way. But I would argue the person
34:05
Speaker 2: who introduced materialism into rap music is LL cool J
34:10
Speaker 2: on the nineteen eighty nine album Walking with a Panther,
34:14
Speaker 2: which is an album that followed his huge breakthrough album,
34:19
Speaker 2: and it just took a suspiciously long time to come out.
34:24
Speaker 2: And when it finally came out at a point when
34:27
Speaker 2: most rappers were still doing conscious rap, it was all
34:31
Speaker 2: about champagne and expensive clothes and people.
34:35
Speaker 4: Were like, what the fuck is this shit? And now
34:38
Speaker 4: it's just what rap is. And look at the career.
34:42
Speaker 2: That fucking guy has had. Is he that good of
34:45
Speaker 2: an actor? Is that cool j that good of an
34:49
Speaker 2: actor that.
34:50
Speaker 4: He should have?
34:50
Speaker 2: The motherfucker's been on NCISLA since nineteen seventy or something.
34:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, who's watching that shit?
34:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's bizarre. You can't deny that shift, and that
35:01
Speaker 3: shift doesn't come out of nowhere. And also the fact that,
35:05
Speaker 3: with a few small exceptions, completely obliterated conscious wrap to
35:10
Speaker 3: the point where he sat a Nipsey hustle. I mean
35:12
Speaker 3: even I hate to bring up Kanye West, but something
35:16
Speaker 3: happened to that dude.
35:17
Speaker 4: Man.
35:17
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying I don't believe the whole Oh,
35:19
Speaker 3: he has mental illness, Let's get it. He's sick. He
35:21
Speaker 3: needs help. So maybe he's just dumb and he was
35:23
Speaker 3: easily manipulated, because some people aren't just dumb. They are
35:27
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe he lost his mind after his mom died.
35:29
Speaker 3: I don't know. But something fucking happened to that dude
35:32
Speaker 3: where he has gone so far off the rails that
35:35
Speaker 3: it's he went from being like George Bush hates black
35:37
Speaker 3: people on September eleventh tele show to now thinking that
35:42
Speaker 3: he doesn't even want to hire black people at his
35:44
Speaker 3: fucking private school because they don't work hard enough. And
35:47
Speaker 3: it's like, it's crazy how that guy turns so hard
35:52
Speaker 3: a to the point where it's like, it's maybe it's
35:55
Speaker 3: mental illness. I'm not saying it's not or anything like that,
35:57
Speaker 3: but mental illness doesn't forget racism like that and just
36:01
Speaker 3: hideousness that yeah become I'm sorry it doesn't. And it's like, oh, well,
36:05
Speaker 3: Hitler was just mentally ill, let's forgive him too. He's like, no,
36:07
Speaker 3: fuck you. He was a piece of shit and he
36:10
Speaker 3: was dumb. Problem was he was a dumb fuck.
36:12
Speaker 2: Acted on the things he said a little more than
36:14
Speaker 2: Kanye West, of.
36:15
Speaker 3: Course, of course, yeah, I didn't mean that as a
36:18
Speaker 3: comparison Island. They are like, some people do dumb shit
36:20
Speaker 3: and can be manipulated. And so you going back to
36:24
Speaker 3: the heart of the show all that, when the whole
36:26
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift thing came up last year, and everyone was
36:28
Speaker 3: literally laughing off that there was any involvement with CIA
36:31
Speaker 3: or intelligence. With Taylor Swift, it was like nobody took
36:34
Speaker 3: her to Langley and sat her down. I was like, Hey,
36:36
Speaker 3: you're gonna be an operative now. But the idea that
36:39
Speaker 3: there isn't a CIA operative or an FBI operative in
36:42
Speaker 3: her entourage, in her close crew, in her management. I mean,
36:46
Speaker 3: we know for a fact there's CIA in agencies and
36:50
Speaker 3: management companies in Hollywood. We know for a fact they're
36:53
Speaker 3: all over the production companies, whether they be music or
36:56
Speaker 3: film or TV. That's just a known fact. The CIA
37:00
Speaker 3: is proud of it, to the point where they have
37:01
Speaker 3: a web page that talks about their involvement in the
37:03
Speaker 3: entertainment industry. The idea that there isn't anyone there sort
37:06
Speaker 3: of massaging that powerful person towards certain things is crazy
37:12
Speaker 3: to think.
37:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they have the money to spend. We know that.
37:17
Speaker 2: We know they have a Silicon Valley investment wing called
37:22
Speaker 2: I think it's called intel Q that ingests in the CIA.
37:28
Speaker 2: You're not going to believe this, America. The CIA were
37:32
Speaker 2: one of the original funders of Google Earth, you know,
37:37
Speaker 2: a project that lets you look at anything on the
37:40
Speaker 2: computer by typing in fucking coordinates.
37:43
Speaker 4: Oh, the CIA was in on that.
37:44
Speaker 3: No, come on, and they're one of the original funders
37:48
Speaker 3: of Facebook. I mean, and that's not a conspiracy there.
37:51
Speaker 3: You can go to CBS News and look up the
37:53
Speaker 3: articles from ten to fifteen years ago where it's laid
37:56
Speaker 3: out clearly with the shell companies they used to fund it. Yeah,
38:00
Speaker 3: and that doesn't go away. They don't just say, oh,
38:03
Speaker 3: cut our losses.
38:04
Speaker 4: What no, no, no, and yeah.
38:07
Speaker 2: One of the examples we will also put in the
38:11
Speaker 2: notes is the song Wins of Change by Scorpions, right,
38:16
Speaker 2: which there's a whole podcast series about how the CIA
38:20
Speaker 2: maybe probably wrote that song.
38:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the people in that podcast are way too
38:27
Speaker 3: positive about what that means. They're like, this is so cool,
38:30
Speaker 3: CIA fucking help bring down the wall. And they do
38:34
Speaker 3: not understand they can use that against YouTube.
38:37
Speaker 2: Man, that's that is a mainstream media podcast for you
38:43
Speaker 2: right to not even question the implications of that. I
38:48
Speaker 2: haven't listened to it, but I assume they make it
38:50
Speaker 2: sound like movie shit. Yeah, it's yeah something without exactly
38:55
Speaker 2: ever once being like, oh, so what about those other
38:58
Speaker 2: rumors about the CIA and music? Those true to bring
39:02
Speaker 2: that up on New York or podcast, and they're going
39:06
Speaker 2: to be like, ugh, we don't engage in conspiracy theories here.
39:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.
39:11
Speaker 3: Well, the thing I don't understand is all this stuff
39:14
Speaker 3: is well documented, and I do understand that you can't
39:16
Speaker 3: know everything about everything some of this stuff just unless
39:18
Speaker 3: you're interested in how the intelligence worlds work. A lot
39:22
Speaker 3: of this can slip by you, and that's fine. What
39:24
Speaker 3: I don't understand is the immediately, no, this can't be true.
39:27
Speaker 3: We're not like that, we're better than blah blah blah.
39:29
Speaker 3: And they only use this against the communists or the
39:32
Speaker 3: terrorists or whoever the fuck is imagination, imaginary villains in
39:36
Speaker 3: our minds. And it's like, but you understand, the use
39:40
Speaker 3: it against us too, because they need us to actually
39:42
Speaker 3: fight one day, and they need us to be on
39:44
Speaker 3: the right side their side, quote unquote, which is the
39:48
Speaker 3: sort of thing where it's like, this is psychological warfare.
39:51
Speaker 3: That's the name of the fucking department. I know I'm
39:53
Speaker 3: a broken record there, but it's on us too. We're
39:57
Speaker 3: part of that.
39:58
Speaker 4: Yeah. And one of the the last things I want
40:01
Speaker 4: to talk about.
40:02
Speaker 2: I didn't put a lot of notes in the notes
40:05
Speaker 2: about it because my internet mysteriously went out about ten
40:09
Speaker 2: minutes before we were due to record this. It was
40:12
Speaker 2: out for about forty minutes. Fine, Fine, No, nothing weird.
40:15
Speaker 3: About that, Adam. Coincidence, Pure coincidence.
40:18
Speaker 4: Pure coincidence.
40:19
Speaker 2: CIA has to own a bunch of record labels, right,
40:22
Speaker 2: It wouldn't do to just own one.
40:24
Speaker 4: They got to own indie labels.
40:26
Speaker 3: Hip hop, jazz, world music. Yeah, going back to Copeland,
40:30
Speaker 3: Lyle's Copeland the Third, that's what he literally did.
40:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, founded a record label.
40:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, we'll link to a couple of articles
40:38
Speaker 2: about musicians who were just also CIA and sometimes without
40:44
Speaker 2: even the knowledge of their bandmates. Their bandmates didn't even know.
40:48
Speaker 2: And that is a thing that has to happen so much.
40:53
Speaker 3: Yes, and I think one of them is a hip
40:55
Speaker 3: hop group in Cuba modern times. This isn't in the
40:59
Speaker 3: fifties or sixties. A rapper in Cuba now basically was
41:03
Speaker 3: just straight up a CIA operative.
41:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a rapper what is his name, Takashi six'.
41:09
Speaker 2: Nine there is a whole lot of suggestion that that
41:15
Speaker 2: guy is A cia Plan and the reason people think
41:19
Speaker 2: that is at first he was just a goofy looking
41:23
Speaker 2: fella who kept getting spotted Around New York city or
41:27
Speaker 2: wherever he was from because of how he, looked and
41:30
Speaker 2: he blew up on social media over, that and then
41:34
Speaker 2: takes this weird months long trip To Eastern europe where
41:38
Speaker 2: he learns to become a, rapper and then comes back
41:42
Speaker 2: and just blows up in, rap followed by so many
41:46
Speaker 2: allegations that he's also a government Informat.
41:49
Speaker 3: And you, Know Eastern europe traditionally the heart of hip. Hop,
41:52
Speaker 3: now who wants.
41:53
Speaker 4: To Eastern europe to learn to? Rap what the fuck is?
41:56
Speaker 3: That? YEAH i went To South dakota SO i could
42:00
Speaker 3: alert it about black. Culture.
42:02
Speaker 4: Yeah.
42:02
Speaker 2: Yeah if there is A Wrap academy In Eastern, europe
42:06
Speaker 2: it's because THE cia runs.
42:08
Speaker 4: It if you put it In, detroit people would.
42:10
Speaker 2: Be, like that's THE, CIA i, Think But Eastern, europe
42:14
Speaker 2: no one.
42:14
Speaker 4: Cares.
42:15
Speaker 3: Yeah and also there's the practicality of this one run.
42:19
Speaker 3: OPERATIONS cia has. NGOs if you see an anti CORRUPTION
42:23
Speaker 3: ngo anywhere in the, world it's ninety nine times out
42:26
Speaker 3: of one, HUNDRED cia. Back so, yeah and that's kind
42:30
Speaker 3: of common. Knowledge. NOW i, mean there's that whole thing
42:32
Speaker 3: with The mexican president last. Year calling out THE us
42:34
Speaker 3: for running anti corruption NGOs In mexico WITH cia. Money
42:38
Speaker 3: all this stuff is very, obvious and we do shit
42:41
Speaker 3: like that all over through THE, usia The United States Information,
42:45
Speaker 3: agency where we send out music literally, Music we send out,
42:50
Speaker 3: books we send out, newspapers we send out movies to
42:54
Speaker 3: just kind of brainwash people in other countries all the.
42:58
Speaker 3: Time the idea that doesn't come back on, us it's
43:01
Speaker 3: crazy to. Me this is all stuff that happens and
43:03
Speaker 3: is well documented all the. Time and like you, said
43:05
Speaker 3: you'll link to some of the blatant, examples AND i
43:08
Speaker 3: Think uganda In cuba where band members in modern times,
43:12
Speaker 3: today not fifty years, ago we're straight UP cia. Operatives,
43:15
Speaker 3: no no, Clandestine oh we're working through this shell corporation
43:20
Speaker 3: through like With Jackson pollock Or Louis armstrong where they
43:23
Speaker 3: weren't like direct. Operatives so it's like no direct people
43:26
Speaker 3: in THE. Cia and this is where a lot of
43:28
Speaker 3: when you Watch american media ABOUT, cia whether it be
43:31
Speaker 3: Fucking What's clear And Pressent, Danger Jack ryan or Zero
43:35
Speaker 3: darscurity or any of THOSE cia funded, things where it's
43:39
Speaker 3: either either Your Jason bourne or you're a fat dude
43:41
Speaker 3: in a suit In langley and there's no one. Between it's, like,
43:44
Speaker 3: yeah there's in. Between there are people who look like
43:47
Speaker 3: everybody you can. Imagine there are people working in THE
43:49
Speaker 3: cia with fucking face tattoos and, dreads and they are
43:52
Speaker 3: card carrying members on the, payroll not fucking clandestine members
43:56
Speaker 3: through a shell. Company THE cia has, everybody every, book
44:00
Speaker 3: every sort of culture, represented because how would they get
44:04
Speaker 3: into them without.
44:05
Speaker 2: That, Yeah Jesse ventura very famously in an. INTERVIEW i
44:09
Speaker 2: say very, famously AND i doubt anyone's heard this, interview
44:12
Speaker 2: SO i don't know Why i'm saying.
44:13
Speaker 4: That but he at one, POINT i think it was on.
44:17
Speaker 2: His Conspiracy theory show that was on for a few,
44:20
Speaker 2: seasons talks about becoming governor Of minnesota and how when that,
44:25
Speaker 2: happens when you're elected governor of a, state you have
44:28
Speaker 2: a meeting with THE, Cia AND i imagine everyone who
44:32
Speaker 2: becomes a government official has a meeting with THE, cia
44:35
Speaker 2: whether they know it or. Not but his whole thing,
44:38
Speaker 2: was they look like your, neighbor they look like the
44:41
Speaker 2: cashier at the, store like your, picture and like you,
44:44
Speaker 2: said the guy from the, office but with a gun
44:47
Speaker 2: and no it's the guy from your, office but with a.
44:50
Speaker 2: Gun it's Not jim from the. Office It's tim who
44:54
Speaker 2: sits next to. You that guy from your office is
44:57
Speaker 2: actually what THE cia.
44:59
Speaker 3: Looks, yeah and it's very.
45:02
Speaker 4: True, Yeah AND i have a whole bit THAT i
45:06
Speaker 4: do on. STAGE i don't do the spy part of
45:09
Speaker 4: it as.
45:09
Speaker 2: OFTEN i have a whole bit about rich people going
45:11
Speaker 2: on these misadventures and then we have to spend tax
45:14
Speaker 2: money to bail them.
45:15
Speaker 4: Out that's BUT.
45:16
Speaker 2: I sometimes WHEN i do the, JOKE i bring up
45:19
Speaker 2: the case of those Three american hikers who were taken
45:24
Speaker 2: into custody In iran on suspicion of being. Spies, yeah
45:28
Speaker 2: when all they were really Doing zach was going on
45:31
Speaker 2: a hiking trip In iraq in like twenty, Fourteen and it's, Like,
45:37
Speaker 2: man if you were An, american you had no reason
45:40
Speaker 2: to be hiking In iraq at the time unless you're
45:43
Speaker 2: trying to spy On. Iran, HONESTLY i think that's kind
45:46
Speaker 2: of the only reason to be that close to that
45:48
Speaker 2: border at that.
45:48
Speaker 3: Point, Yeah and there was SO i remember that vividly
45:51
Speaker 3: BECAUSE i didn't travel similar to. That and there's so
45:54
Speaker 3: many goals in their story when they came back AND
45:57
Speaker 3: i was, like you guys are talking with your ass right,
45:59
Speaker 3: now there's, oh we just decided to go For we
46:02
Speaker 3: had no idea we were acrossing the border And. Iran it's, like,
46:04
Speaker 3: yeah you. Did you don't bug that. Up AND i
46:07
Speaker 3: can tell you from travel In afghanistan And. Badockshan americans
46:10
Speaker 3: aren't welcome there and they will ask you to leave
46:12
Speaker 3: vehemently because they don't want you there in case something
46:15
Speaker 3: happens to. You and then we just fucking flatten their,
46:17
Speaker 3: village you, know, right because that's what we would. Do
46:20
Speaker 3: whether Like i've always, said WE'RE i don't think we're
46:23
Speaker 3: the good guys you think we. Are and so it's
46:25
Speaker 3: the sort of thing where, yeah like, whatever shit like
46:29
Speaker 3: that pops. Up or when somebody shows up In North
46:31
Speaker 3: korea suddenly in, PRISON i was, like what the fuck
46:33
Speaker 3: were you doing In North korea that they actually arrested
46:36
Speaker 3: you and put you in? Prison you were doing something
46:39
Speaker 3: that you should not have been and got caught and fuck, You.
46:43
Speaker 2: Like, yeah THAT i think is kind of the dividing
46:47
Speaker 2: line when you.
46:48
Speaker 4: Hear a story like.
46:49
Speaker 2: That North korea takes people into custody all the. Time
46:53
Speaker 2: the question is do we just let them sit there
46:55
Speaker 2: until they're brain dead like Auto, warmbia, right or do
46:58
Speaker 2: we Send Bill clinton over there to Get Lisa lang's
47:00
Speaker 2: sister out?
47:01
Speaker 4: Right what was she doing over?
47:03
Speaker 3: There something that merited a lot of our tax dollars
47:05
Speaker 3: bringing her? Home? Yeah, again those are two great examples
47:09
Speaker 3: of this regular ass looking people, nerdy fucking like what
47:13
Speaker 3: are you doing there in the first, place because that's
47:15
Speaker 3: the sort of people that are out there. Too like you,
47:17
Speaker 3: said It's tim at your office who's probably been relaying
47:20
Speaker 3: information about you to somebody. Else and, again it doesn't
47:23
Speaker 3: have to be you don't have to be Fucking John
47:25
Speaker 3: lennon to have somebody looking after. You you can just have
47:28
Speaker 3: traveled to the wrong places at the wrong, times or
47:30
Speaker 3: you could have just fucking been listening to the wrong.
47:32
Speaker 3: Podcasts at this, point we're wrong podcasts in their, assumption
47:35
Speaker 3: and they're just, like who is this? Guy why is
47:37
Speaker 3: he listening to all this? Shit and, well what's he
47:39
Speaker 3: gonna do about? It and how many guns does he?
47:40
Speaker 3: Have and how many cards does he? Have and how
47:42
Speaker 3: much fucking fertilizer does he have in his? Workshed when
47:45
Speaker 3: it's like all that shit adds up and they have
47:47
Speaker 3: access to it all now because everything's fucking on your
47:49
Speaker 3: phone and. Digitalized we all akin, that, oh we're impervious
47:52
Speaker 3: to this, shit or we're so, strong or we have
47:54
Speaker 3: these ethics and morals that are, concrete and, dude we
47:58
Speaker 3: all have our soft. SPOTS i don't care who you.
48:00
Speaker 3: Are everyone has something that the especially the FUCKING cia
48:05
Speaker 3: who has been working tirelessly since the nineteen forties to
48:08
Speaker 3: break our, minds can get to all. Yes and so
48:12
Speaker 3: the sort of the idea, is, oh tim will never
48:14
Speaker 3: fucking squeal on, me or oh my wife will never
48:16
Speaker 3: squeal on. Me. Bullshit you put somebody in the right,
48:18
Speaker 3: situation in the right, time with the right pressures and
48:21
Speaker 3: the right, points everybody, breaks. Man and this sort of
48:24
Speaker 3: sort of thing where again going back to an earlier
48:27
Speaker 3: point WHERE i would wager well over seventy percent Of
48:30
Speaker 3: americans if actually taken To langley and said, hey we
48:34
Speaker 3: need your help to do, this that or the other for,
48:36
Speaker 3: Patriotism they're going to say, yes no matter what it.
48:40
Speaker 3: Is and that might be fucking overthrowing a democraticly elected
48:44
Speaker 3: government and fucking All, salvador But i'm doing it for
48:47
Speaker 3: my country. Man and so there's going to be some
48:49
Speaker 3: people who question that and be, like fuck, you, No
48:51
Speaker 3: i'm not fucking doing your dirty.
48:52
Speaker 2: Work and see then that's when it becomes, oh you, won't,
48:57
Speaker 2: well let's talk about how you.
48:58
Speaker 3: Will, yeah. Exactly and that comes back to the when
49:02
Speaker 3: you're talking about, musicians when you're talking about, actors, whatever,
49:04
Speaker 3: artists they don't need to take them To langley and be,
49:07
Speaker 3: like hey you need to do this or. Else they
49:09
Speaker 3: can just be, like, hey we think about. This why
49:12
Speaker 3: don't we think about? That why don't You look what
49:14
Speaker 3: happened With Olivia rodrigo recently where she was giving up
49:17
Speaker 3: morning after pills at her concerts and then suddenly stopped
49:19
Speaker 3: because it got too. Crazy wonder what really was behind
49:23
Speaker 3: her stopping that was maybe something her entourage who was
49:26
Speaker 3: maybe associated with the, government who was, like, hey we
49:29
Speaker 3: want to keep you. Safe we don't want you to get,
49:31
Speaker 3: Hurt we don't want anybody to get hurt at your.
49:33
Speaker 3: Concerts remember what happened To Arianna grande And. Manchester sure
49:37
Speaker 3: would be shitty if that happened to. You with some
49:39
Speaker 3: crazy white supremacists In texas who's so anti abortioned that
49:44
Speaker 3: they do something like, that maybe we should pull back
49:46
Speaker 3: on This, olivia and she of course would say fucking,
49:48
Speaker 3: yes because that's. Scary. Yeah it has nothing to do
49:51
Speaker 3: with anybody being fucking. Recruited it's just like these people
49:55
Speaker 3: with this much influence on culture have clandestine people in
49:59
Speaker 3: their archoarages that they don't fucking know about but are
50:02
Speaker 3: in their. Ear it's easy to manipulate people who are
50:05
Speaker 3: so isolated from. Reality it really, is because it's sort of,
50:09
Speaker 3: like if you're in the room with, them you must
50:11
Speaker 3: be special sort of, thing and that's how they kind
50:13
Speaker 3: of treat you because if you got in that, room
50:16
Speaker 3: you got in that, room, right and so, yes and
50:19
Speaker 3: think about the people who can going back to our original,
50:21
Speaker 3: point think about the people who can get into any
50:23
Speaker 3: room like THE cia or THE fbi OR masad or
50:27
Speaker 3: M i six or whoever the, fuck because that's what
50:30
Speaker 3: they're trained to. Do they're trained to get in those.
50:31
Speaker 3: Rooms because again going back to our original, point they
50:35
Speaker 3: literally created THE cia with producers and writers and artists
50:41
Speaker 3: and musicians and people who were already in this. World
50:45
Speaker 3: they Didn't, yes they recruited people from that, world but
50:47
Speaker 3: their point was cultural. Warfare cultural warfare means you start
50:53
Speaker 3: from that. Point but of Course Taylor, swift she's too
50:56
Speaker 3: smart to have anybody like that in her, crew so
50:58
Speaker 3: she's a Pervious and they've gotten good at. It they've
51:01
Speaker 3: been affecting, it they've been practicing, it they've been working on.
51:04
Speaker 3: It LIKE i, said they've been working on psychological warfare
51:06
Speaker 3: since nineteen forty. Seven you don't think they're good at it,
51:08
Speaker 3: yet it's been almost one hundred. Years they figured some
51:11
Speaker 3: shit out by.
51:11
Speaker 2: Now they successfully got all of, us with all of
51:16
Speaker 2: our diverse opinions and beliefs and. Prejudices someone successfully got
51:24
Speaker 2: us all to come out from our various corners of
51:27
Speaker 2: The internet and agree, that, yes we all.
51:29
Speaker 4: Hate each, other but we should also all be On. Facebook.
51:33
Speaker 3: Right that's.
51:34
Speaker 4: Crazy that's got to be the government at.
51:36
Speaker 2: Work because it was so much better WHEN i could
51:39
Speaker 2: just go talk About oasis with people who Like oasis
51:43
Speaker 2: and not have to get comments from white.
51:46
Speaker 4: NATIONALISTS i guess the government's real good at what they.
51:49
Speaker 4: Do and here's the thing that's my, GOVERNMENT.
51:52
Speaker 3: Usa WAS i one remember the days where we'd be
51:57
Speaker 3: at a bar having a conversation about, something were having
52:00
Speaker 3: a conversation about and some drunk asshole would chime in
52:03
Speaker 3: from another table and it would be, LIKE i get
52:05
Speaker 3: to fight you now for daring to put your dumb
52:08
Speaker 3: ass opinion in my. Communities and it was, LIKE i
52:13
Speaker 3: not That i'm proud of any bar FIGHTS i got in,
52:15
Speaker 3: before BUT i used to get in bar fights because
52:16
Speaker 3: people would be, like, oh blah blah, blah they come
52:18
Speaker 3: in and tell you what they wanted. To god damn
52:20
Speaker 3: tell you about what you're talking, About, LIKE i don't know,
52:22
Speaker 3: YOU i don't. Care how dare you come over here thinking?
52:25
Speaker 3: That and then we turned that into our fucking reality
52:30
Speaker 3: where everybody has comment on your table's. CONVERSATION i mean
52:35
Speaker 3: this as a joke without the bar fight aspect WHERE
52:38
Speaker 3: i can kick your ass to get you away from. Me,
52:41
Speaker 3: Yeah and we did it.
52:42
Speaker 2: Willingly we didn't have to be dragged kicking and screaming To.
52:46
Speaker 2: Facebook they made it so only a certain group of
52:50
Speaker 2: people could have it at, first and who the young's
52:53
Speaker 2: the cool?
52:54
Speaker 4: Kids and then we were just.
52:56
Speaker 2: Like fucking let me at, it let me at, it
52:59
Speaker 2: and goodbye, Democracy.
53:01
Speaker 3: Hello genocide In, burma and, Yeah china And india and
53:06
Speaker 3: da not to be and This i'm too bad of a.
53:08
Speaker 3: NOTE i don't know how you get off this, ride,
53:10
Speaker 3: MAN i really. DON'T i don't think we, do not
53:13
Speaker 3: even looking at this election or being like about any of.
53:15
Speaker 3: That but it's just, LIKE i don't see the. SOLUTION
53:18
Speaker 3: i don't see a fix that's going to come along
53:20
Speaker 3: because there's too many people that are too their brains
53:23
Speaker 3: are too melted, now they're too addicted to the dopamine
53:26
Speaker 3: that's gone too far to the point where how do
53:28
Speaker 3: you turn that around without really hurting a lot of?
53:31
Speaker 2: People and people act like divide and conquer isn't the
53:35
Speaker 2: most famous strategy of all?
53:38
Speaker 4: Time, yeah and think.
53:40
Speaker 2: About how divided we are. Now AND i say it
53:45
Speaker 2: all the. Time all it's really done is made it
53:48
Speaker 2: so this government can do whatever they, want always with
53:52
Speaker 2: about fifty percent support of the.
53:55
Speaker 4: Public.
53:55
Speaker 3: Yep because if.
53:56
Speaker 2: One side says, it the other side's going to say it's.
53:59
Speaker 2: Bad National. INTERNET i always bring up we obviously need,
54:03
Speaker 2: it but one side mentions it and the other side
54:05
Speaker 2: will be, like.
54:05
Speaker 4: Fuck, you you.
54:06
Speaker 2: Fascists you're not building National. Internet we will when we
54:10
Speaker 2: get in.
54:10
Speaker 4: Office.
54:11
Speaker 2: Yeah and then we get in office and the right
54:13
Speaker 2: is like you fucking fascists are not building a National internet.
54:18
Speaker 4: Turning our kids into trans. People just, joking we wouldn't
54:23
Speaker 4: call them. People, Obviously i've.
54:25
Speaker 3: Taken up so much YOUR i really appreciate, it but
54:27
Speaker 3: we should probably wrap up.
54:28
Speaker 2: You, YEAH i think that's our. Episode, yeah, Hey, zach
54:32
Speaker 2: thank you so much for doing the. POD i appreciate.
54:35
Speaker 2: It what do you have to plug before we get
54:37
Speaker 2: out of?
54:37
Speaker 3: Here SO i officially had my last aid up rocks
54:40
Speaker 3: last month AND i am now chief brand officer For Blackwood.
54:43
Speaker 3: Distilling So i've got some whiskey and ride it's going
54:47
Speaker 3: to be heading your way so you can taste it.
54:49
Speaker 4: And into, it very into.
54:51
Speaker 3: It we are A kentucky brand. Now we started in
54:53
Speaker 3: twenty twenty AND i was brought on to extend the
54:56
Speaker 3: brand just nationwide and. Internationally So i'm going to be
54:59
Speaker 3: your to guy if you need some bourbon or rye
55:02
Speaker 3: and look me up AT Ztp whiskey On. Instagram you
55:04
Speaker 3: can find me there and you can see Where i'm heading,
55:07
Speaker 3: next so you can try it too If i'm in your.
55:09
Speaker 4: Neighborhood very, nice AND i think that's. It let's get
55:12
Speaker 4: the funk out of. Here zach say, goodbye, goodbye, everybody, goodbye.
55:16
Speaker 4: Everybody we love.
55:17
Speaker 1: You people of A plan has to be destroy