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Podcast: Behind the Scenes: Belong, Become, Be Love; (Gal 3:25-28, 5:22-25) · North Raleigh United Methodist Church Podcast

• 0:00
  Kevin Van Hall: Good day, and welcome to North Raleigh United Methodist Church Behind the Scenes Podcast, where we're sitting down weekly and talk about this week's scripture and sermon.
• 0:07
  Kevin Van Hall: My name is Kevin Van Hall.
• 0:08
  Kevin Van Hall: I serve as your moderator, and joining me today are both senior pastors here at North Raleigh, Kevin and Laura Johnson.
• 0:15
  Kevin Van Hall: Hi, guys.
• 0:16
  Speaker: Hi.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Welcome.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: It is a special treat that both of you guys are here.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Laura will be preaching this Sunday.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Kevin preached last Sunday, and he preached about the Sabbath.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: This is a little bit of a special podcast because we're introducing, or they are introducing, a new series, and Kevin and Laura are here to introduce how that came about and what that new series is.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: First of all, it would last week or last um it was Monday, was Labor Day.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: It is Tuesday.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: And I have to ask, did you guys take a day off a Sabbath somewhere in the weekend on the Labor Day?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:56
  Speaker: We took our children to a place in North Raleigh called Tree Runners, where there's like l large obstacle courses and zip lines high up in trees that you get to clip into with your harness and go have adventure at the treetops.
• 1:10
  Speaker: And we had a great time.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that existed here.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right by the Jewish community center there.
• 1:15
  Speaker: So by Soapstone Methodist, too.
• 1:17
  Speaker: And then Kevin smoked a pork shoulder.
• 1:20
  Speaker: So it was a good day.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: It was good.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Uh that gets me ready for uh football.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: It was a big kickoff football season.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I spent a little time off watching some college football, getting back in the swing of things.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: And it's that whole new season, right?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: And we have a new series, a belong, become, and belove.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So can you explain that a little bit?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: So this is in conjunction.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Well, some of y'all might have seen this on our new t-shirts that got released a couple weeks ago, and we're selling them in the lobby and everything.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: But um we have uh a new purpose statement, and this purpose is belong as you are, become like Jesus, and be love for God's world.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Um, that purpose got developed by our study team, and that study team was put together uh for 2026 uh by our nominations and leadership development group to study uh the need and necessity eventually for future buildings and things on our campus.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Um that group has not made like determinations yet or anything like that, because that would eventually lead to building committees and stuff like that.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: But the first job is really to look at the mission and ministries of the church uh and and to think through the mission.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: And so what we did was through this through the course of a lot of work together, um, we really we developed this purpose statement and and really wanted to use these three words of belong, become, be love, uh, to kind of guide that work together.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: It also helps to guide what differentiates North Raleigh from another church up the road, uh, gives us some kind of guiding principles to follow.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Um, and I think also helps us define our Wesleyan Methodist way of discipleship in a particular way.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: And so we'll get into that some as we talk together.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Um, but I think it really helps describe the way of grace uh that we have as as as United Methodist people.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: And so are we gonna see any changes uh around the church other than new t-shirts?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Is there uh would it be obvious uh to members, or is it just more of uh defining goals of what we really want to start, maybe try to achieve here at North Raleigh?
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: I think there will be some, I think there will be, as time goes with it, some more obvious um developments and changes with it, or maybe ways that we tailor ministry to say, hey, it we really want to make sure that everyone belongs in this space.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: So what are we doing to make sure that people can belong as they are, right?
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: So what are we doing for issues like accessibility for people?
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: What are we doing to make sure everyone's included?
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Um so I think it'll be questions like that will help form.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: I don't think it'll be like, hey, these things are belong things, these things are become things, these things are beloved things.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: I don't think it'll be that like linear and like we put things in three columns, but more it'll be kind of the way of life that we that we embody here.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I do see a few changes.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I uh Ashley Will just came back on staff uh hired to help with uh missions.
• 4:29
  Speaker: That's right.
• 4:30
  Speaker: She's helping us be love for God's world.
• 4:32
  Speaker: Um so I th and I think some of the changes will be really just how, like in our language and kind of in our culture of how we prioritize what we're doing as a church together, how we have conversations about what we're doing together and staffing decisions, like bringing on Ashley to oversee our missions so that we can effectively be love and kind of organize us since we are doing so many amazing things.
• 4:58
  Speaker: We've got the Blessing Initiative, we have our ministry partners that we've had for longer than the Blessing Initiative, we've got international partnerships, local partnerships, and and how do we organize that well so that everyone knows how to participate, knows when to participate, and help us as a church be love across the globe.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Well, excellent.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: So it might be some subtle changes, but one of the more obvious changes, uh, I worked at Soundboard on the early morning and I could see the electrical work that's already begun in the new sanctuary.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: How about an update on that?
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we have the audiovisual project going on.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Do you hear what I hear?
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Um the electrical is in process right now.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: We think that starting the week of October 19 is when the real install will start taking place um for the actual upgrades and things and should be done hopefully mid-November.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Um that's kind of the that's kind of the timeline so we can keep folks abreast.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: The fundraiser for that's going well.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: It's at about last checked um a little under 230,000 raised or so out of the 400.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: So it's going well.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I know there's going to be uh some people gonna be happy with that working back there.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Issues with the hearing assist.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Uh updates on that as well as a speaker arrays, uh visual screens, uh get an opportunity for some people that aren't coming to worship because of some of these issues, maybe to come back and join us.
• 6:26
  Speaker: That's right.
• 6:27
  Speaker: It it helps us create that culture of belonging that you matter here.
• 6:31
  Speaker: We're trying to make it really easy for you to feel like this is immediately at home for you.
• 6:36
  Speaker: You can participate right away with any with no barriers, so that all can feel like this is their space where they belong.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: So that's the belong.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: And then you talk about missions uh to become more like Christ like um so how is the belove, belove?
• 6:53
  Speaker: Um well, I would say become is more discipleship related.
• 6:57
  Speaker: How how are we as a church learning together, having discussions together, growing together, so that we look more and more like Jesus every day, that we're we're always growing in our faith.
• 7:09
  Speaker: And what that means as Wesleyan Christians is that we are becoming better reflections of Jesus, that that's our calling to be made perfect in Christ, to be perfect imitations of Christ.
• 7:21
  Speaker: Um, and then be love is really that mission focus of how are we acting in ways that are sharing love with the world.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: It's sort of, you know, the the conceptually, using all three together, um it it's a little bit of almost of a reversal of how things often would look, or at least a at least a little shift, in that a lot of churches, I think you you only belonged after you uh checked the right boxes and said the right things.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: And what we want to say in this intentionally to start is that you belong as as you are.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: You don't have to do you don't have to do anything.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: And that's a message of provenient grace.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: That's what I mean by this grace-filled type of way.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: And then the the message about becoming like Jesus, well, that's the message of sanctifying grace.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: That's Jesus working in us, that's us being drawn closer to God, and that as we are, and as we are made to look like Jesus, well, then we are kind of sent out and flung and scattered about uh to be to be love for God's world, right?
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: And so there's this constant kind of inner, there's an interplay between the become and be love.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: We we we we're brought here to and and and sometimes in the church building or at least in relationships with one another to be drawn closer to Christ and and grow, and then we're sent out, and then there's there's that kind of back and forth with with belonging or with become and beloved.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: So I look forward to it.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I look forward to uh seeing all the uh new t-shirts, I should say.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: And then the uh I know the process for the new screens and everything else is going to require a little bit of patience on everyone else's point.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: There's uh inspections that need to be done, the behind-the-scenes work all the electrical before we're gonna start seeing pretty screens and new speakers and stuff like that.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: But it is in the works.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: It's been in the works for a while.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: This isn't something that uh happens uh overnight.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: So a little bit of patience with that.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: And then I guess a little patience with um the rest of the congregation to to get on board with this whole way.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: It's it's more of a a transformation, a progress of what we should be doing and making sure we're doing it, maybe, or is this uh it's not directed by the Methodist Church from the Capitol District.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: This is just something you guys envisioned, wanted us to see us go forward.
• 9:38
  Speaker: This is something that the study team discerned together of who who are we?
• 9:43
  Speaker: It's been a long time since there's been a lot of people.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: So we can be an individual.
• 9:47
  Speaker: Exactly, exactly.
• 9:47
  Speaker: So this was made locally here at North Orle with our leaders on the study team.
• 9:52
  Speaker: The idea of since the last time there was a purpose or a mission, vision statement was before COVID.
• 9:57
  Speaker: And a lot has changed since then.
• 9:59
  Speaker: And so who are we now?
• 10:00
  Speaker: What is where is God leading us?
• 10:02
  Speaker: Who is God calling us to be as a communal body right now?
• 10:05
  Speaker: And these this is what came out of it belong, become beloved.
• 10:08
  Speaker: This is who God is calling us to be right now.
• 10:10
  Speaker: This is why we exist.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, really, right?
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Every church is called to make disciples of Jesus Christ, right?
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, and the United Methodist Church's official mission is to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: We're just saying, with this, with this purpose, this is how we are called to do that.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: This is how we uniquely understand ourselves to do that, right?
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: And so every everybody has to, every church body has to be able to say, well, this is why we exist.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: This is our this is our purpose.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: And if we can continually live live into that language of how we live on purpose and everything, it gives us something to rally around, it gives us something to point to, um, and it helps guide, helps guide our work together.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Well, excellent.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna concentrate on this podcast on two of the three, belong and become.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Uh, the reason is is we will not have a podcast next week.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I'll I'm not gonna be available uh for that.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So we're combining this podcast of uh into two, introducing the series and then talking about the two of the three.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Laura will be preaching this Sunday.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: We'll start off talking a little bit about the belong, uh, and then Kevin will be preaching on the following Sunday on Become.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna start with that.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: But how about of uh a word of prayer before we go too much farther?
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 11:27
  Speaker: I'll pray.
• 11:28
  Speaker: Let's pray.
• 11:29
  Speaker: Oh Lord, we ask that you would bless us in this conversation, bless all who are listening.
• 11:34
  Speaker: We ask that you would speak to us through these scriptures that we would indeed know that we belong in your family and that we are called to become like Jesus.
• 11:43
  Speaker: In Christ's name we pray.
• 11:44
  Speaker: Amen.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: So, Galatians, you pick this uh passage, Laura?
• 11:50
  Speaker: Actually, Kevin did.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 11:52
  Speaker: But I can I can tell you why.
• 11:54
  Speaker: Um Galatians was a letter that Paul wrote to a church that was really struggling with belonging.
• 12:02
  Speaker: There was a very large fight happening in the church of whether or not people had to check off certain boxes before they could belong to the church, meaning, did they have to fulfill the Jewish requirements like circumcision and dietary practices and whatnot?
• 12:21
  Speaker: And there the the church was absolutely divided about whether or not people had to follow those rules or whether or not a Gentile could come in and not do all those things.
• 12:32
  Speaker: And Paul's letters to the Galatians is is one of those foundational texts that paved the way for full Gentile inclusion, which includes us, without having to practice Jewish laws.
• 12:44
  Speaker: And so the whole point of his book is to help people find belonging in Christ outside of all of our all of the ways that we say you're included, you're excluded, to say no, none of that matters.
• 12:57
  Speaker: All belong.
• 12:58
  Speaker: All belong if they're in Christ Jesus.
• 12:59
  Speaker: Right.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Well, Galatians is uh Paul's first letter, correct?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: So it's off of his first mission trip.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: So the word is just now beginning to stretch beyond the original uh Jesus' realm and preaching in Judea.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: So it there's uh probably a huge misunderstanding once he he leaves the church of what it evolves into, and then there's a reunderstanding or reintroducing of what's really going on.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: So a little bit of that in Galatians.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna be starting in uh chapter three and verses uh twenty-five through twenty eight.
• 13:37
  Speaker: So Paul writes, but now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian.
• 13:43
  Speaker: You are all God's children through faith in Christ Jesus.
• 13:48
  Speaker: All of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
• 13:54
  Speaker: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: He's uh trying to explain to them the faith.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: You gotta remember the uh Jewish dysporia, there were Jewish synagogues in the area of Galatia, which basically Asia Minor, uh north, uh it's Turkey, um, and today, I guess if you looked at a map today.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: And um, so there were some people that understood uh the rules and laws that were brought forth from Moses and the Torah and the circumcisions and everything else.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: So not only is he trying to uh convince uh maybe the Penguins or the people that were believing in Roman gods, you also have to try to get the people in the Jewish tradition to understand that everybody could belong in this new way of thinking.
• 14:52
  Speaker: That's right.
• 14:53
  Speaker: And the the most astounding part of this is that Paul was the original exclusive insider.
• 15:01
  Speaker: He was the Pharisee of the Pharisees.
• 15:04
  Speaker: He kept all of the laws, he was very clear about the boundaries of who is in and who is out until Jesus knocked him off his horse.
• 15:12
  Speaker: I love that expression.
• 15:13
  Speaker: High horse and helped him see that God's grace is bigger than that, and that God wants all to find salvation, not just those who can check off certain boxes.
• 15:24
  Speaker: Um and so a lot of his argument in Galatians is that the law was kind of like our babysitter, custodian, until Christ came in the fullness of time and showed us a different way where we can all belong as part of God's family through the salvation that Christ offers.
• 15:40
  Speaker: And so his Jewish counterparts often hated him because he used to be their shining example, and now he's saying, wait, no, everyone's welcome.
• 15:53
  Speaker: You don't have to, you don't have to fit in these boundaries that that we've set for thousands of years, which was shocking to a lot of people.
• 16:00
  Speaker: But he was so adamant about it, and and he was able to grow the church through Gentiles in in this amazing way, because the message he offered was one of belonging, is that you belong here because God made you and God loves you.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: And it's incredible to think then that what we do as people, right?
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: So as Gentiles who follow later, we have all these ways that we then divide up and do I mean the reason why Galatians speaks powerfully to us today is because we have all these ways to mark in who's in and who's out of whichever particular group that we make, right?
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: So whether so every church split through time, the way that Americans have over 3,000 denominations and all of these things, it's it's all of them cut against the grain of what Paul's trying to do in Galatians, right?
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Which is rather than break rather than break down the barriers and open it up instead of setting up new barriers and trying to say, well, it's this way and not that way.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: It's you're and and and we we perpetuate this thing all the time so that Galatians is a fresh word to us again, even though we're not living the Jew-Gentile controversy, maybe like Paul was.
• 17:14
  Speaker: And you read this verse and you're like, is he saying that right?
• 17:17
  Speaker: Like, could he really mean it?
• 17:19
  Speaker: That anyone who's baptized into Christ is now clothed in Christ.
• 17:24
  Speaker: So they have this like protective armor on them that that's their like, I'm in the club card, is there in no matter what?
• 17:31
  Speaker: And so because of that, there's no distinctions.
• 17:34
  Speaker: Jew or Greek, so that means Jew or Gentile, slave nor free, female or male, no distinctions.
• 17:40
  Speaker: We are all equally belonging as one in Christ because we're all clothed in Christ.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: Which in and those distinctions, right, is pretty incredible for someone over 2,000 years ago in Paul's world to be saying that those distinctions don't matter, right?
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: So the same, this is Paul, right?
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: The same Paul who some later texts in Ephesians or First Timothy gets attributed to as writing about these household codes where you know where Paul gets quoted and used to say female should serve the male or miserable.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Or slaves submit to your husband, slaves submit to your masters and stuff.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: This same Paul writes this that there's no longer male and female, slave nor free.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: And so the question starts to become, okay, so like if which one is which one is God's ideal?
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: And that's where interpretation is required.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: This is often a text that we use to hold up to say this this sure seems to point to God's ideal for how things are meant to be.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: And so we have to then interpret those passages in Ephesians or in 1 Corinthians or whatever, in the context of where they were and what's going on.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Uh, because Paul surely seems to be pointing to a greater reality than that what someone in his culture could see at that time.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Well, in his reality, there was only Jew or Greek.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: You lived in the Mediterranean Sea world.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: You had no idea.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: The world was round, different.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: So you're covering everybody when you literally say you were either Jew or you're everyone else.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: And then or you're a slave or you're not, because in his time and period grew up, there was always slaves.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Even the Jews were slaves at one time, remember, those those times in Egypt.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: So it's not like he condones it or accepts it or that's allowed.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: He's literally trying to use it in the sense that everyone's included.
• 19:38
  Speaker: Exactly.
• 19:38
  Speaker: He's basically saying all the boundaries that we put up to keep people from belonging are gone in the kingdom of God.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Well, he even says uh get get rid of the boundaries for women here as well.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: We know that Jesus saw that in his ministry, allowing the women.
• 19:53
  Speaker: And Mary Magdalene to be the first preacher.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: To allow the women.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Let the children come.
• 19:58
  Speaker: That's right.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Don't don't exclude anybody, even the children.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Let the children come.
• 20:03
  Speaker: That's right.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: And it's a totally different way of thinking, and uh Paul is uh pushing that along as well.
• 20:09
  Speaker: And I feel like a lot of times churches can lose sight of this in all the ways that they want to be holy or righteous or you know, fit their their their market share that they're trying to reach, and they they can often lose sight of this is the vision of the kingdom.
• 20:26
  Speaker: And and what we hope for North Raleigh, and with a study team and the council has affirmed with with this hope for North Raleigh is that we could be a place where we don't set up boundaries that keep people in or out.
• 20:38
  Speaker: It's it's we we want all to feel like they can belong here because God made them and God loves them and we do too.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I wish the other churches out there would feel this way as well.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: We have a lot of division that's going on in this country, uh both politically and culturally.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Um whether you're from uh Central, South America, you're brown skinned, white-skinned, for some reason we want to say those people don't belong.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Uh I I don't understand um why we're going backwards when 2,000 years ago early Christian churches were taught, no, everyone can belong, and yet we still want to segregate and say some people don't belong.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good to see that.
• 21:18
  Speaker: An interesting exercise for you listeners is to go home and read in Galatians 3, 27, no, I'm sorry, 28, and rewrite it for today's world.
• 21:30
  Speaker: How would you rewrite this?
• 21:31
  Speaker: We're not divided between Jew and Greek in this world currently that we live in.
• 21:36
  Speaker: It's a lot wider than that.
• 21:37
  Speaker: And so how would you define this?
• 21:38
  Speaker: How?
• 21:39
  Speaker: How would you rewrite this in today's words to help get the vastness of what Paul's trying to say about the kingdom?
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's other places, right, in in some of Paul's other letters in in Ephesians or in Colossians, where he uses the word all over and over and over, and he just keeps saying all, right?
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: And then that tends to be his emphasis.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Is is how does God widen?
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: How does God widen the circle?
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: How is God welcoming all the time?
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, and then the end of the end of times, uh, and at the end of Paul's life writing letters saying how it was a blessing of him being a prisoner that he was uh converting and and teaching the guards the gospel.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: How everybody, even the guards that were going to send him to his death, were still able to receive the word.
• 22:27
  Speaker: That's right.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: So totally different way of thinking in a way to uh adapt.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So preaching this Sunday on belonging, everyone belongs in the kingdom of God.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: We're already in the kingdom of God.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: It's more like we all need to accept that we all belong.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's right.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the theologian Paul Tillich back in the day, Martin Luther King loved to quote him.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: He said, We just need to accept that we're accepted.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Um, and that that was that was his way of framing it.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: So, and then we're gonna the following week, we'll look, we're still gonna be in Galatians, the letters of Galatians are have two main parts that so many people can remember Galatians for.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: This one first one we just talked about, that there's neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: There's another in chapter five.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Is there not, Kevin?
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is gonna help frame our conversation about becoming like Jesus, and it's uh Galatians five, starting in 22.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: There is no law against things like this.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the self with its passions and its desires.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: If we live by the Spirit, let's follow the Spirit.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: So the fruit fruit of the Spirit is one of those famous passages, verses that so many people can relate to, remember.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: A lot of times people think, well, those are the gifts that the Spirit gives.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: But is Paul saying that, or is he saying that is the Holy Spirit?
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I I really think that I you know, Paul, I think Paul uses this image because of fruit fruit is something that grows naturally and something that is healthy, right?
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: So I think he's saying that when we are in Christ, when we're clothed with with Christ, as he said in chapter three, the outgrowth is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: It's it's so it's both.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like the characteristics of the Holy Spirit and what the Holy Spirit brings to you does to you.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: I think the beauty about Methodist Christianity as an expression is really that we don't think that the second you accept Christ in your life, that that story of salvation is done.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Instead, it's that's just the beginning.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: And we are made to become more like Jesus each and every day.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: And do we fail?
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: You know, do we do we need to confess?
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: And God is in the business of molding us and shaping us, right?
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: And and that's that's what these things mean here.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: So I think sometimes sometimes traditions shortchange or truncate Christianity to make it that all that matters is that I pray to prayer to accept Jesus.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: But the the reality is that it also needs to be it's that it's not that our deeds save us, it's that these deeds of love, joy, peace, patience, they they come naturally forth and spring forth from a life that is grounded in Christ, right?
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: So so these fruits are just born uh and and they and they come forth.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: And I think that's that's part of our hope here, right?
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: Is that the discipleship work that happens at North Raleigh, the way in which uh people can be fed both in worship and in small groups and in teachings and Bible study opportunities and in all sorts of other uh ministries here.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: The hope is that that is that people are growing deeper that rootedness so that those those fruits spring forth.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Good friend Pastor Mind uh used to say that Christianity isn't a self-improvement program, it's a transformation program.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Uh there's a transformation that needs to go forth that you need to become to grow and to be and it's not easy, is it?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, we miss the mark, we sin.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: We missed the mark so often when we're trying to be like Jesus.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Uh it's kind of hard, is it not?
• 26:43
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 26:44
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Speaker: I but I but I think the I think of the journey of sanctification is not like a if you think of like a bell curve.
• 26:54
  Speaker: Like it's not like you're always going upwards towards holiness.
• 26:57
  Speaker: Instead, it's more of like you have some dips and you have some um upward mobility and then some dips, and but you over time you're growing and and it requires a continual repentance, continual leaning more into the Holy Spirit to guide you.
• 27:12
  Speaker: And and I think another way to put this is in some traditions or and sometimes in our minds, our idea is that the point of our lives is for us to get saved and go to heaven.
• 27:23
  Speaker: Whereas in the Wesleyan Methodist tradition, uh the what we see is that the point of our lives is to we were made in the image of God, to be a unique reflection of God that no one else can be.
• 27:38
  Speaker: That's why God created us.
• 27:40
  Speaker: And that the point of life is to continually grow into that image that God made us to be, that reflection of God.
• 27:47
  Speaker: So so heaven is a part of it, but the but the real work, the real process, the real joy is becoming exactly who God made us to be, that perfect reflection of God that is only ours to have.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that that image, that image of God gets restored in us.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: One way that John Wesley talked about it in a way that um, and and he quoted the great Saint Irenaeus when talking about this.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: He talked, he talked about salvation as as medicine.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: And and that we were we were sick by sin and Jesus brings us medicine that makes us whole and makes us holy, and essentially gives the fruits of the spirit with that, right?
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: So so so we that that salvation process then is one whereby the image of God is restored and nursed back to health within us, within our community, right?
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: The hope is that North Raleigh is a people full of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: So it's not just you, Kevin Van Hall, becoming like Jesus or me or anyone else in the church.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: It's also that we collectively are becoming like Jesus, right?
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: So this it guides us both individually, but also who we are corporately.
• 29:01
  Speaker: And to use that imagery of reflection, think of it as like if you take every person at North Raleigh and and you see their reflection, you put them all together, it makes this like big mirror that looks like God.
• 29:13
  Speaker: It's like if you put all the little pieces together, it's like this big mirror that reflects God.
• 29:17
  Speaker: That's the that's the ideal, that's the goal of the church.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Paul Paul talked about that as well, the body of the church.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Sure, for sure.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: The body of Christ, too.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: We're all little pieces.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Uh I'm a fingernail.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Uh somebody else is uh the eye.
• 29:33
  Speaker: But all together we look like God.
• 29:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I also like you brought in the uh Holy Spirit into this uh conversation as well.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Um with the Trinity, uh, so many people think of the Holy Spirit is God's love or the wisdom of God.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Jesus was the word of God, Holy Spirit is the wisdom of God.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: So I guess it takes a little bit of of everything to make this kind of transformation happen.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's the fruit of the spirit, right?
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, it whether there's all sorts of ways to understand the spirit's work, but the operative is that is that it whether it's the spirit of Jesus that's living in us and doing this, whether it's also that that the spirit is the one who by the spirit itself is transforming us.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: It's it's about us.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: You know, there is an element of well, we need to try, but some of our trying is simply yielding, right?
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: It's simply it's some of the trying is not trying, you know, some of the trying is turning ourselves over, giving ourselves over to how to how God wants to form us uh through the Holy Spirit.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: And so that's that's the becoming.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: The be becoming like Jesus is not just striving.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Martin Luther talks about it in Mighty Fortress as is our God.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: He says our striving would be losing.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: Um, we're not the right man on our side, the man of God's own choosing, right?
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: And so really we we lay our lives down, and in so doing, the Holy Spirit grows in us the fruit of the Spirit.
• 31:06
  Speaker: What he said.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: She likes it when I start quoting hymns.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: So yeah.
• 31:13
  Speaker: You got Martin Luther in there, it's great.
• 31:14
  Speaker: Now she gotta get a Charles Wesley quote.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: Irenaeus and John Leslie.
• 31:19
  Speaker: That extra cup of coffee really helped.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: That's what happens.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: She wanted me to come in here without my cup of coffee.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Y'all, you need to know that when we come in here, I always have my cup of coffee.
• 31:27
  Speaker: And it's already empty.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: It's all gone.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: But uh it it helps to it creates real conversation here with Kevin across the table.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't have to play much of an antagonist uh today to uh uh uh questions or try to lead you straight so you could give us the correct answers that so many of us need out there.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: You guys need to do we need to do this more often as a team.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: You guys are excellent as a team together as well and do a great job uh in the leadership of the church as well and the team and directing us in this new direction, uh, this new mission statement of uh belong and become.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: So Lamar will be teaching, uh preaching this Sunday.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Uh Kevin, it sounds like you're ready to rock and roll.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: You're ready to preach uh already.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, maybe we'll just do we'll just knock them out both this week.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: I'll just stay a little longer on Sunday.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: You know, get settle in.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: It'll be fine, and we'll just go for a couple hours.
• 32:23
  Speaker: So we won't be doing that.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Well, we don't want to scare anybody away, but we wouldn't.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: No, no, it's like the other thing.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: God forbid a Methodist go for an hour fifteen.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Lord have mercy.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Well, in the day they used to, did they not?
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, they would preach for an hour fifteen.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: Wesley's sermon's pretty long sometimes.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Well, it's all good stuff.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: It's all excellent stuff.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: And like I said, this podcast will not be available next week, so you have to listen to it twice in case you missed anything.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: On the first time around.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And then we'll pick back up on the uh in the third week of September and finish up with Be Love.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I'd love for both of you guys to come back for that to wrap up the series as well.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: If you guys can make it work.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: So I think so.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: I think so, too.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 33:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Not looking at my calendar.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: That's at like the 20th or something like that.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Getting a little bit too far ahead.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: So back to uh right now, Labor Day just finished the summer is over, and I hope that everyone is uh back into the swing of things, can come to join us this Sunday.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: If not, uh all this is available online as well.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: The streaming services of the uh services or just to listen to the sermon is also posted on the website along with this podcast.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: So we'll finish up uh today's uh dual podcast.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Last remarks, closing remarks.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: No, we'd love to see you, and we look forward to carrying out this purpose together.
• 33:54
  Speaker: And I love seeing all the shirts around church.
• 33:56
  Speaker: It's fun.
• 33:57
  Speaker: I've seen them already.
• 33:58
  Speaker: People wearing their shirts around church, their new shirts.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Uh it's a competition.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Who's gonna get it on first?
• 34:05
  Speaker: You don't have any prizes for you.
• 34:06
  Speaker: We're running out of hurricane.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Pushing the merch there.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Sale this week.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: This only week only.
• 34:15
  Speaker: We missed the Labor Day sale, so but I won't say join us next week.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Join us in two weeks.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Until then, may the love of Christ be with you always.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: So goodbye, everyone.
• 34:26
  Speaker: Bye.