Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / Inside the Dugout: Steroids, Judge, and New York Pressure with Ken Davidoff

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Inside the Dugout: Steroids, Judge, and New York Pressure with Ken Davidoff · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Rosters to Rings. I am your host, Dad Levine.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Today I'm joined by a longtime business associate and friend,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Ken David Off. Ken grew up in Edison, New Jersey.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: They graduated from the University of Michigan. We may have
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to ask a few questions about the sweet sixteen. With
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: degrees in English and communications, Ken spent the next twenty
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: eight plus years covering sports, primarily baseball in New York
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: for such legendary publications as The New York Post and Newsday.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: During his twenty eight year journalism career, Ken also served
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: as the president of the Baseball Writers Association of America.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two. In the prime of his career,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Ken changed courses to become an adjunct professor at Endicott
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: College and most recently as an author of one hundred
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: and one Lessons from the Dugout. Ken. Welcome to Rosters
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: to Rings.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: That is great to see you. Thank you so much
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: for having me.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: It's our pleasure, very much, our pleasure. Ken. As a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: tradition on Rosters to Rings, we asked each of our guests,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: how is a kid? Did you fall in love with sports?
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: And when did you know you wanted to work in them.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, I remember that I went to my first
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: major League baseball game in nineteen seventy seven. That was
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Shay Stadium Mets Astros, and I remember just being in
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: love with the atmosphere, even though you know, if you
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: go on Baseball Reference to check the attendance, the ballpark
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: was less than half fall, I'm positive. And then so
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the Yankees went it all in seventy seven and then
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: again in seventy eight, and those are my formative years,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: you know, and I just fell in love with baseball.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Even at age seven. I was quite confident I was
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: not a good enough player to play professional sports, but
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: I would read the Newark Star Ledger every morning while
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: eating breakfast, and I was just in love with their
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Yankees coverage of Mets coverage. Their writers were Moss Klein
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: and Dad Dan Castellano. Moss covered the Yankees, and I said,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: when I grow up, I want to be Moss Clin.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: That's incredible. It harkens back one of my first experiences
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: watching a game in New York. My dad grew up there.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: He took me to a game an old Yankee stadium.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: It was a playoff game. I was a Baltimore Orioles fan.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: The Baltimore Orioles were playing the Yankees, and we said,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: first of all, the first impression was I sat in
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the upper deck and how harrowing it was to get
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to row thirty seven in the upper deck. But two
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: was that was the famous Jeffrey Mayer game where he
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: may or may not have interfered with the ball that
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Tony Tarasca was about to catch. From an Oriols perspective,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I thought it was an interference. I was wearing my
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Orioles cat proudly, and I was standing up and I
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: was expressing my discontent with that call, and a guy
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: kindly poked me on the shoulder and said, hey, you
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: may want to sit down, and you also may want
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: to take off your hat. The group behind me is
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: getting a little chippy. So that was one of my
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: first experiences watching baseball in New York City. Ken he
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: had twenty eight years of exceptional success covering the teams
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: in New York. You know, it was one of the
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: most prominent markets in all of the world for professional sports.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: But after twenty eight plus years you decided to walk away.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Why was that that?
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I was burned out and you can appreciate it being
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: on the other side of the table. Just the number
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: of media inquiries you get when you're in that top chair.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: And now put yourself in my shoes, making all those
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: inquiries and chasing down every last trade roomor and as
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: a columnist for the Post, my job, and it was
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: it was a good a good job. You know. I
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: would not fault to my bosses at all. It's what
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: they should have asked me. But my job was to
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: constantly take the temperature, in particular the Yankees and the Mets,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: you know. And so every time the Yankees lost five
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: of seven, it was what's wrong with the Yankees? And
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: after doing that for twenty eight years, I was I
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: was fried. I didn't want to write those columns anymore.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to chase down every last bit of
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: breaking news. The evolution of my industry, the journal was
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: industry while becoming more customer friendly at every turn, and
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: therefore I can't shake my fist at it. It made
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: it harder for the journalist, in my opinion, to do
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the kind of job I wanted to do.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Could you talk more about that? Kens be more specific there? Like,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: what was what was the evolution in your industry, and
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: how did that become more difficult to do your job
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: with the integrity you aspired to do it each and
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: every day.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it, so, you know, if thad go back,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So when I started working, let's say in nineteen ninety six,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: like I would attend a Joe Tory news conference at
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: four o'clock, and Joe Joe went particular. He provided content.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: You know, he was a media veteran by then and
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: knew what we were looking for and knew how to
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: give it to us. So he would give us something
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: great at four o'clock. What Joe said generally would not
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: see the light of day until the next morning, you know,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: because the internet was still very young, and I think
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: maybe our newspaper I was with a Bergen Record at
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: that point in Jersey, maybe we had a website, but
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: it was not the kind of websit We're okay, we
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: need to file this now, you know. They would just
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: kind of take the next day's newspaper and throw on
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: content there. So now you've fasted. So I had hours
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: to process it, to think about it, to call secondary sources,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: you know, and think about what I wanted to write.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Even as a news story. So now you fast forward
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: to here we are in twenty twenty six and now
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Joe Torre's success or a Yankees manager, Aaron Boone. If
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Aaron says something at four o'clock, the whole world knows
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: about it by four to zho two. And again, understandably,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: my editors at the post like, get it up now,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: we need it up now, and we need to calm
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: as soon as possible, which of course they should ask.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: But to me that made my job more difficult because
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I didn't have time to process the information in the
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: same way. I didn't have time to call the secondary
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: sources in the same way I could eventually, but it
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: was my efforts weren't hampered by the need for immediacy.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know that affected us on the executive
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: side as well, because I think when I started my career,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: which which was a little bit after you Ken, but
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: not too far after you, there was always this sense
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: of journalistic integrity where sources were double checked. You know,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: there was no such thing as just speculation and just
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: you know, shock and all value. And I think there
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: there became a turn with social media where it was
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: more important about any clickthroughs than it was about necessarily
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: accurately reporting, and that became very challenging for executives as well,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: because you know, we didn't want things to get out
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: there that weren't accurate. And I always thought, you know,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: maybe one of the things we should put in social
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: media posts is, oh, by the way, what is this
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: person's record in terms of the last one hundred things
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: they reported they've been report Have they been accurate on
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: ninety two percent or they've been accurate on twenty five
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: percent of what they've reported. We don't really get that
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: sense from a fans perspective. You read it and you
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: read it with you know, like eyes wide open, and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's that's very challenging on the people who
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: came up in the game at your time, with the
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: journalistic integrity you had and with the policies you had,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: which was you never just whimsically reported something. You fact
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: checked everything you did well. Now, all of a sudden,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: social media and the demands of your your bosses don't
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: necessarily afford you the luxury of managing yourself with the
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: integrity you always have.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I think that's one hundred percent right.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: And look, I think you know like I didn't get
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: in the job to break trades and free agents. I
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: understand that has enormous journalistic value, especially with social media
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: heightening that. Like my fa my favorite stories, and it's
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: a phrase that journalists will use is like, the best
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: journalism is the stuff that wasn't coming out until unless
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: you put it out right. So like when the Rangers
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: signed Adrian Belchray, whoever broke that story, kudos, But you
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: guys weren't going to You're going to announce that at
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: some point. You were looking forward to announcing that at
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: some point, right, But you know there are stories broke,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Like let's say, one of my favorite all time stories
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: was when George Steimern was alive. He it was the
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: two thousand and two CBA if you remember that one
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: that it was actually the players almost struck in late August,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: if you remember, and then but they found a deal
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: and the deal was pretty harsh on the Yankees with
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: the luxury tax. So George decided, all right, I'm going
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: to cut costs and cancel the dental benefits for all
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: my front office employees, you know, not the players, but
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: the front office folks. And I reported that story, and
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: you know, that so that the Yankees were not going
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: to put that one on a press release. They were
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: hoping that stayed quiet, but I put it out there
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: and as it wound up, George was embarrassed by the
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: story and decided to retain the dental benefits. So those
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: are the kind of stories I enjoyed reporting the most.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that one hits close to home as I
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: have three children and flossing teeth as a hill. Sometimes
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I find myself dying on so Ken, you head close
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: to fourteen hundred days now that you've been from the game.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: In other interviews, I've heard you say there are two
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: days specifically that had made you want to go back
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: to work. And I know you've referred to that you
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: were on this hamster wheel that you wanted to get off.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: But what was it about those two days specifically that
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: would have inspired you to get back on that hamster wheel,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: just to get a chance to report those stories.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that so good listening. That is correct. Two days.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: The first one was back in the twenty twenty three
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: World Baseball Classic when Edwin Diaz the poor Guy, collapsed
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: in a heap during a celebration after the after Puerto
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Rico had a big win, and look, I covered the
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: very verse WBC back in two thousand and six. I
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: was admittedly a huge skeptic that I thought, I don't
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: see this thing working. Of course, I could not have
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: been more wrong. It's an enormous success. Kudos to Major
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: League Baseball and the Players Association for doing this. It's enormous.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: But my one issue I still have with it is
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: that injury factor. And I'm glad there were no big
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: injuries on this one. And the Cubs guy I got hurt, right,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: the outfielder, but Edwin thank you. Yes, when Edwin Diaz
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: got hurt, he was out for the year. So he
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: gets his full salary as he should. Steve Cohen gets
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: a full rebate because WBC has its own insurance policy.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: And all those fans who bought Mets tickets like, yeah, sorry,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: you know, stuff happened. Sorry, but you know, and the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: match wound up missing the playoffs that year, and they
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: were considerably worst team because they did not have Edwin Diaz.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: All I'd like to see is some token, you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: to express like, yeah, we put your player in harm's way.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Clearly we did, because we take out a separate insurance
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: policy on the WBC. So here's you know, here's a
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: ten dollar food coupon, just some notice, some acknowledgment that
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: this is a real thing and we are putting your
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: players at risk. So that was number one. Number two
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: is a little more simple. Willie made. The day Willie
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: May has passed away, I had a very special relationship
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: is strong word connection with Wii made because he was
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: my father's favorite player, and as it turned out, in
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, my dad's boss was very close with
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Lillie and Willie played. He was my dad's teammate on
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: the company's softball team. So the one time I was
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: born in nineteen seventy one, so I don't remember seeing
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Willie play in the major leagues. But I did see
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Willy play in a softball game in Staten Island, New York,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: on a pavement field with a chain link fence, and
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: we have a family picture with Lily. So that was
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: very you know, I always thought, so I actually told
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Willie that later. I think it was actually during the
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: first WBC. So that's a story I would like that
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: shared on a big platform.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Well, Ken, I'd like to touch on both those things,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: just reflecting you know, one of the things you hit
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: on is we do have insured some a lot of
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: these players contracts, and the WBC is unique because MLB
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: subsidizes it. But if that injury were to happen in
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: spring training or on an opening day, and similarly the
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Mets fans were impacted, the Mets probably have a policy
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: in addition to the fans not necessarily getting their full
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: money's worth of having the benefit of watching him pitch
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: every day. Sure that the executive gets some money back,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: but there's no money you could spend at that point
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: that delivers the value that somebody like Edwin Diaz would
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: deliver to your team, the presence in the back end.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: He was one of the best at that time. He
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: was one of the best relievers in the game. So yes,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you do get some insurance back, So the owner may
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: in part be made whole, but the fans don't get
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: made whole. From a competitive standpoint, the front office doesn't
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: get made whole because this great design they have of
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: building this championship caliber organization. Sure you get some subsidied back,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: but you just simply can't invest them at that time
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: effectively to compensate for the loss of a player of
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: that magnitude, and then the story about Willie Mays is
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: just spectacular, And I think these are stories we don't
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: hear enough of, which is just expressions of people doing
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: things for the joy of the game. We have monitor
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: ties it. We have made this such a business. We
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: don't afford these guys too many opportunities anymore to literally
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: just join a softball game or a street ball game
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: or a withootball game with kids and just play for
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: the love of the game. I think it's spectacular that
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: you share that story and that that is fourteen hundred days.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: There's so many amazing things you've done in your career
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and that was one of the ones you wanted to
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: come back for them. And also it speaks to the
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: fact that at the heart of it, we're all fans,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: right like you were a fan of Willie Mays, and
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: that was one of the things that probably fared you
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: through all of those tough nights when you were constantly
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: being berated for what's the next breaking story of why
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: we should fire the Mets or Yankees manager, You're probably
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: thinking of Willy Mays and playing for the joy of
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the game and that one day and that helps you
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: get through it. I think we should be telling more
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: of those stories throughout baseball right now.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I agree that I looked like the point that I'm
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: quite confident Will he got paid to be that's the
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: ringer for the softball team. But I don't think what
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: we did much for free. God bless them. But nevertheless,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Well, a slight payment to express the joy of the game,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: A slight amendment to my question, then my observation, I
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. Ken shifting gears to a fora You just
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: had a virgin voyage in terms of writing a book,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: and I just want to just ask at the outset
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: on rosters to rings. We've delved into clubhouse chemistry, front
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: office chemistry, chemistry with owners and managers and executives. Well,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious as to how you achieved. You're an
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: extremely accomplished journalist, doctor Harley wrotebart is a renowned pediatrician.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: How did you find chemistry there to write the one
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: hundred and one Lessons from the Dugout.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I think my head was just in the perfect space
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: for this book to come about. So, yeah, one hundred
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and one Lessons from the dugout life lessons that can
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: be learned from the great games of baseball and softball,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: and this book came to me. I think it was
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: January of twenty twenty two, so I already decided with
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: my wife like I'm quitting, Like my contract was up
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: February first, and I gave notice a couple weeks before,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm pretty certain this was right before then. And
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: my agent, Lisa Leshnie paired me up with Harley, with
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: doctor Rodebart, and this book was Harley's baby. He had
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: a manuscript written, but he wanted me to be his collaborator,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: his partner, to kind of infuse the book. He Harley
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: loved the game at the grassroots level, coached his kids,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: but he wanted my perspective from covering it at the
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: elite level. And just as I told you that, like
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I could not write one more column about what's wrong
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: with the Yankees, I could not chase down one more
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: trade roomer. So here's this book with the first draft written,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of the joys of the game and the positives of
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: the game and the ways we can play this game
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and then apply it to the rest of our lives.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: So it was just for me it was so energizing.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: It was almost like an antidote to what I was
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: feeling particular time.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful, Ken can I I've read through the book
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: and I just want to hit on a few points.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: May be misreferencing some of the chapters, so bear with me,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: but things that hit me. You know, the first chapter
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: you talk about how you play the game is more
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: important than the final score. That really hit home for
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: me as an executive, and I just be curious how
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: you would apply as someone who's seen gms like myself
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: live and die by wins and losses. You've seen managers
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: you know, live and die by wins and losses. What
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: advice would you share with us of how we achieve
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: what is a very simple statement, which is, you know,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: we should be more focused on the process than the outcomes.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Ad, and I think baseball still has the perfect
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: role model for this, and that's mister don Maddingly. I
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: don't know how much you've crossed paths with Donnie over
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: the years, but here's a guy who, you know, the rare,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: revered Yankee to never even play in a World Series,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: let alone win one, and then of course managed and
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: as coached, and only last year in his sixties did
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: he finally make a World Series as a Blue Jays coach.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: But you talk about people in the industry and the
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: game who are respected, and Donnie is going to be
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: top zero point one percent, I think, on anyone's list,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: and that's because of the way he carries himself, right,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: because of the way he played the game, because of
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: the way he coached, because of the way he managed,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: because of the way he treats people. And even Yankees
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: fans who are just they're brutal that you like, there
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: were so many Yankees fans love this guy because they
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: know everything he put into the into the the game.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful. And another anecdote you share which really struck
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: home to me was a story about Yoshinova Yamamoto meaning
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the visitors dugout at Roger Center after a World Series win,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: and I'm just curious, like in an era where the
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: superstars have massive contracts, they're trying to build their own
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: social media brands, what you take away from that act
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: of humility.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: That almost was so exciting to that because you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: with the book writing process, this book was written by
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: last October, we had signed off on our last edit,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: and okay, it's going to the factory now. However the
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: heck they put it together. So we're watching the World
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: series and lo and behold there's Yoshi Yamamoto cleaning the
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: dug out. And that's our chapter ninety two, Chapter ninety two,
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: dragging the field, cleaning the dugout, clean up your messes,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: take pride in your spaces or our joke was who
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: gave Yoshi an advanced copy of the book? You know,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: But of course that's how he was raising. You know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: it's quite predominant in the Japanese culture in particular, and
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: just what yeah, I love. We were so excited selfishly
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: that it went viral because it gave us a hook
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: to sell the book. But you know what a wonderful
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: lesson for all of us, just to clean up after yourself.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: And it's one of our more simple lessons and more
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: simple metaphors. You know, no matter whether it's your dugout
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: or your room or your desk at school, your locker,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: clean up after yourself.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: It can it hurking back to me of the same
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: book by James Kerr Legacy, his book about the All Blacks,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: in which he talks about that. That was part of
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the ethos of that organization as well, and he felt
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that led to their successes. There was no small thing
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: they weren't prepared to do. They were very humble first
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: before they were champions, and they you know, famously cleaned
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: every space they got into with meticulous care. And it
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: does matter. I think those things do matter, and I'll
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: extend it a little bit further. When I was a
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: chief executive of teams, one of the things we would
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: do before we acquired a player, whether that was signing
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: them as a free agent or in a trade, we
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: would call our visiting clubhouse manager. Those are the people
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: who had the most interaction with all the players who
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: came through our organization or came through our stadium. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I asked him, how did each of these guys treat
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: your employees? You know, these are the guys who shine
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: their shoes, who cleaned their uniforms, who get them meals.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: And it was very telling. How you would hear about
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: how people would treat the people who were you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: arguably s them. And I will say, and I won't
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: mention names, we nixed trades because of the information we
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: heard or we went in different directions because of glowing
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: accounts that some of that we heard, and that mattered.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: It mattered how people treated one another, how they treated
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the resources and facilities around them, And I think it
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: truly does lead to championship qualities.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree one hundred percent, and that's yeah. I
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: would also often ask the visiting clubhouse managers the same
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: question you, just to get their take.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: In Yamamoto's case, it also helps to throw ninety five
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: plus miles an hour worth double plus secondary stuff, and
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: miraculously the ability to throw two hundred pitches in a
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: four day window. Those things also help.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: They do help.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: One other question I wanted to ask you is you
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: know you talk about in chapter ten about this whole
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: concept of gossip and noise, and it's you said, it's
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: really much harder for today's generation just because of the
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: social media. There's there's fomo, there's I think you even reference.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So if there's these parties that you weren't invited to
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: ye throughout your career, can you've seen players who both
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: have thrived and who've been overwhelmed by the pressures of
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: playing in the Big Apple. I'd be curious did you
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: ever find specific character traits that you thought really tipped
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you off as to whether or not the player was
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: going to swim or sink in New York.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sad, And I think, you know, it's kind of crazy,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: but I think being a member of the media for
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: such a long time, but it was like the more
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: the more a player kind of viewed me as exit,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: you know, in essential, I guess I think the more
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I thought they were likely to succeed, you know, because
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: there were players who like tried too hard to engage,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and I think, you know, that was to me, was
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: a warning sign. And then there were players who were
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: just so frazzled by anything and everything media related. And
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I won't there's an example I'll share before, and I
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: mean Randy Johnson obviously at worst the second best left
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: handed pitcher in baseball history after Carlton, or maybe it
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: was better than Carlton, and and God bless Randy, Like
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: he was so thrown off by the constant attention during
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: those two years as a Yankee. Like one of the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: famous stories was, you know, he had he was struggling,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: he was getting older, no longer at the very top
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: of his incredible career, and so you know, like it
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: was like, if you had a bad start, the media
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: was interested, Okay, how'd your throat day go? You know
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: between this start and your next star And that was
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: such a foreign concept to Randy that like anyone would
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: care about his throat day, you know, like it's not
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: something experienced in Arizona or Seattle. And partly because he
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: was just so darn good for those teams. Wasn't that important?
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: But like that really got to him, and to me,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: that was that was a problem.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Can in your history can you reflect upon were there
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: any guys that you were surprised were a little bit
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: swallowed up by New York or guys who thrived there
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: that you were expecting to maybe falter.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: God, that's a good question. Well, for the latter. What's
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: most impressive to me that is when a guy falls
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: in a pit, in a New York pit and climbs
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: out of it because it's really really hard to climb
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: out of it. And someone who I've dealt with only
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: a little bit because he has arrived in New York
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: after I stopped working full time, Carlos Rodon, I mean
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: that first year was a disaster, you know, not only statistically,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: but there were just a couple of incidents and getting
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: into it with a fan and then actually I think
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: he turned his back on the pitching coach, Matt Blake.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: And it's like, man, once once that narrative takes hold
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: of you, good luck switching it. But to his credit,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: like he was just accountable and he changes ways and
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: you know so in addition, and they go hand in hand,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, statistically he has gotten much better
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: and gotten back to that peak level that he showed
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: off with the White Sox and Giants, but also like
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: he's thriving New York, like I'm still very involved with
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: our Writer's Dinner souse. I think he attended back in
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: the day, like Carlos and his wife Ashley won our
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: award for a community service uh, and they attended and
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: they were wonderful. So to climb out of that hole
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: was very, very impressive. Now in terms of a guy
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: who I thought would do great and then didn't. A
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: guy who comes to mind is if you remember a
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: lefty pitcher, Denny n Engele uh and Denny you know,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I remember covering him with the braves and he did
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the train whistle, which was still one of the most
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: remarkable things I've ever seen a human being do. And
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: you know, he came to New York from the Reds
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: two thousand and all happy, go lucky and hey guys
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and you know, love the media. And he hit a
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: rough patch and like Joe Torrey clearly soured on him,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: and like it was it was his walkier and it
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: was like there was a wide assumption that he would sign,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: you know and sign an extension like for a go
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: free agency and just sign a deal with the Yankees.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: But like he got so it had struggled so much
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: and you could just see he was really struggling with
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: all the attention. As he was struggling that little bit.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: The time October came around, is like, there's no shot
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: the Yankies are going to bring them back. And that
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: was when were you on that Rockies front office that
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: signed him.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I was, So that was an incredible hearkening back to
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: when I started. So when I started, Dan O'Dowd was
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: running the Colorado Rockies and they were trying to turn
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the franchise around. That off season we signed Ron Vallone,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Danny Nagle, and Mike Campton and I was a very
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: very junior person. I think I was the assistant to
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: the assistant of the assistant Baseball Operations. But when they
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: asked everyone, does anyone know how to create a net
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: present value calculator to figure out, if we're deferring all
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: this money, how much we're actually having to invest? And
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I raised my hand, and then all of a sudden
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I found myself in a room with Danny Nagle's agent,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Barry Meister and Dan O'Dowd trying to iron out the
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: deals of the terms of that deal, which ultimately I
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: don't think panned out very well the Rockies either necessarily,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: but it was a was an effort to put a
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: franchise that was bereft of pitching on the map, and
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: so they signed three lefties in that one off season,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: and they had varying degrees of success. I just would
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: say in their tenure with the Rockies, did you.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Do the train also for you guys?
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah, that that and that then something I
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: don't know if you remember a famous off field transgression
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I remember will not delve into this as a firm
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: that yes mostly PG rated show you know Ken in
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the book, Just to dive a little bit more into
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: this concept of you talk about sacrificing and the lost
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: art of sacrificing and small ball and attention to detail.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: And I just be curious your assessment of where we
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: are as a sport right now. Where the average gen
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: manager's tenures about five years, the average manager's tenures about
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: three years. We've become obsessed with war and ops. How
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: realistic is it for players but also coaches and executives
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: to be patient, sacrifice and play small ball against that
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: backdrop pervergency.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Well, gosh, that's a great question. That And it's funny.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I have gotten some pushback, you know. I went on
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: foul Territory, you know, the with with aj Kizinski and
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: heerk Kratz, and they said, can there's no more small
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: ball in Major League Baseball? And I said, I know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I know, launch angle and eggs of velocity, but you
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: know we're talking we're talking about little league here primarily. Uh,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: with the small ball is still a thing. But yeah,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: it's it's interesting, and look that I mean the stuff
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: you're talking about at all, And please tell me if
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: you disagree, But but to me, it all comes down
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: to the quality. The pitching has never been better, right,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: And that's the feeling is it's harder to string together
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: three singles than it might be to just you know,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: to do the high launch angle and hopefully you connect
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: on something and send it into the bleak, into the
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: into the seats and get the home run that way.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Uh So, Yeah, the game has changed so much in
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: the time that you and I have been around it.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: And look, I do I think the pitchclock is remarkable,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: and I think it's been a savior, and had it
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: come sooner, I might have made it a few more
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: years on the job covering it. And I know how
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: hard the people in Major League Baseball are working to
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: turn back the clock a little bit on. I think
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: they'd love to see more small ball, anything with more contact, right,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: And they'd love to see the starting pitcher go seven, eight,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: nine innings rather than four or five six. And it's
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: just a matter of how do we solve.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: That, you know, and tipically had the guys over at
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: fel Territory, I think they do a wonderful job. I
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: guess one slight pushback I would offer right now is
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: I do think there are teams out there that are
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: playing small ball, and it's mostly showing up in their
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: valuation of defense. Defense and base running, and I come
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: to mind, you know, the Milwaukee Brewers and Cleveland Guardians
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and Tampa Bay Rays, and to a certain extent, even
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: the Toronto Blue Jays on a much larger payroll scale.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: They are definitely valuing defense differently than most teams, and
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: they're getting rewarded for it. So I do think the
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: game is coming around a little bit. Maybe it's less
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: conventionally the bunt in the hit and run that we
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: grew up with, but I do think there's a version
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: of small ball that is being played right now that
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: is kind of happening subtly under our noses. We're still
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: talking a lot about the glorious home run hitters and
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: the guys who throw ninety nine miles an hour, but
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: those four teams are winning a lot of baseball games,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: and they're doing it a little bit unconventionally.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent point.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Can I want to ask you specifically? You had a
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: tremendous relationship throughout your career, clearly with David Wright, he
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: writes the forward to the book. You covered thousands of
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: players in your career. What was the connection with David
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: that inspired you to ask him to write that forward?
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah? So, I met David. I remember I met him
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: at the futures game in Houston in two thousand and four,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: and that was about a week before the Mets called
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: him up and he made his big league debut. And
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: David is just one of the finest human beings ever met,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: just as authentic a person as you'll ever meet in
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: the game. And he, you know, after he retired, which
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: was compelled by his terrible injury to his final stenosis,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: he he kind of went off the radar. He moved
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: back to southern California, or moved not back, he moved
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: to southern California with his wife who was from there,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: and they started having a family. But I knew he
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: was coaching his kids, and I thought he would connect
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: with this book. You know, this book. You read the
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: book that on a controversy scale of one to ten,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: this book is a zero. And I thought, David really
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: like the themes that we are preaching, and lo and behold,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: you know, when I sent him a couple of chapters,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: he quickly signed on and that was very meaningful. That
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: helped us sell it to a publisher, knowing David's support
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: and name would be on it. And then yeah, when
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: actually zoomed with David to write the forward, I realized
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: like he was using these tools the same way the
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: book promotes them, even before he ever saw the book.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: You know, he he he uses sports as an analogy
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: as a metaphor to help his own kids and the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: kids he coaches get through life.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Just for the listeners to understand, you said the book
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: was a zero on controversy, your career was a zero
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: as well. You always led with substance and integrity as
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: far as I was concerned that. That's how I always
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: viewed your work. So it's a reflection of you as
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: a person. I whant to just ask you a quick
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: question about being a professor at Amdica College. Do you
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: feel like there's one unwritten rule of the press box
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: that has been the most difficult one for you to
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: explain to today's students who are growing up in this
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: era where there's so many statistics at their fingertips and
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: social media just is overwhelming their consumption of sports in life.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So at Endica, I'm not only doing sports that
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I'm doing like journalism all all sorts, which I really enjoy,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I like not being pigeonholed just sports. The
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: one rule I've shared with them because in that like
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: this semester, I'm teaching a class called feature writing in
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: which my students are writing at feature stories that are
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: getting published by small publications in the state of Massachusetts.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: It's really wonderful, wonderful for them. And the one lesson
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: I am espousing in particular is like, always, you know,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: if you're going to write something, let someone know that
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: you're going to write it, Like and this is my
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: former neuro Post colleague Andrew Marshan Phraser like this, have
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: the argument before you publish, not after you publish, you know.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: So that's and I was not doing that at the
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: start of my career, and it hurt me. It costs me,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: but I learned throughout time. Yeah, Like if I'm going
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: to rip the Yankees, like I would give Brian Cash
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: my heads up, Like Cash, I just I don't agree
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: with this one, and you know, and I'm going to
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: write it, and you know, we would talk it through.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: But at least at least that way, I would sleep
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: easily that night and Cash would know what was coming.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: And I found that made it for a far better process.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: And I will say from the executive standpoint. That's all
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: we ever asked for. You know, we expect the media
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to hold us accountable. We expect the media to be critical,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: but you hope that their criticism is constructive, not deconstructive,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: and that it's fair. And part of that fairness is
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: sometimes being given a heads up. Sometimes it's being given
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to offer a counter argument before their article's written.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: But we're not afforded that luxury all the time, and
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I think that that's really the relationship that exists. We
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: don't always agree, but we can respect each other through
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: the process if we handle ourselves with professionalism. Well, for
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: the listeners, please stay with us through the break. On
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the other side, we're going to talk to Ken about
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame, the Collective Bargain Agreement, and his
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: predictions for the twenty twenty sixth season here on Rosters
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: to Rings. Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. That was
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: being here with Ken. David Ken, you were the president
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: of the BWAA. As a result, you had a vote
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: for the Hall of Fame, and I think there's been
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of controversy recently about how these votes are
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: levied by the people who have the votes and so
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: two areas I just would like to get your opinion
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: on is how did you handle the players who maybe
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: were accused of doing steroids but never that was never proven.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: And also the ones who had been proven to have
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: used steroids, what was your take on their inclusion on
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: your ballot for the Hall of Fame.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: So, my thoughts on this evolved a great deal over time,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: and it started out when I first got my ballot
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven. You get a ballot after
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: serving in the BBWA for ten years, you get your ballot,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: and I think that was Mark McGuire's first year on
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: the ballot, and I said, no, no, you know, I
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: covered those congressional hearings. You clearly use stuff. I'm not
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: voting him in. And then the more I read about
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: BA small history, and I remember, like a friend of mine,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Mike Vacara, wrote a book about the I think it
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: was the nineteen twelve World Series. I could be wrong,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: it was about an old World Series and he just
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: all that Mike did great up job documenting all the
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: gambling that occurred back then, you know, by the players,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: And just like the likelihood that there are players in
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame who gambled, you know, and to me,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: gambling is far worse than steroid usage. So it's like,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to vote for these guys who
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: you know, were not convicted in baseball wingo, you know,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: not suspended or what have you. And then so I
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: voted for Maguire, I voted for Clemens, I voted for Bonds,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: but I'm going to draw the line at a Rod Maynor, Amirez,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Palmero guy. So I actually got suspended. But then when
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Bud Selig got in easily, you know, after he retired
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: from commissioner, and Bud Selig was part of the ownership
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: group that committed collusion in the nineteen eighties. You know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: that was put in Mike fan wheelhouse. And I remember,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: like like Tim Reins was unemployed on an opening day
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven because of ownership collusion. And for me,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: that was worse than the steroids, because that's damaging the
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: value of your ticket, you know, because the owners aren't
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: weren't trying their best to put together a quality product
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: on the field, whereas steroid usage. To me, it's one
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: of your buddies. Rick con calls that club on club crime,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: right because it's not damaging the inherent value of the product,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: and that everyone's trying to win. You know, Steroids do
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: help you win, whatever you think of them. So when
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Bud skated in after being found guilty three times of
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: collusion by an independent arbitrator as part of the collective
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: bargaining agreement, except forget it Buzz getting in that, I'm
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: voting for a Rod, I'm voting for Manny anyone else.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: You know, Ryan Braun, you know anyone like that who
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: got suspended. That has been the evolution of my thought process.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Well, just to add a few perspectives there, I also
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: would say Bud Sealing also presided over the majority of
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: the steroid era. So if you if he did that
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: and gets in like maybe there's something more to your
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: argument as well. My perspective on this, Ken and I
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: please poke holes and this as you see fit is
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I always viewed the Hall of Fame as a place
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: for the players who were the best of their generation.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: And I always felt that those guys were unequivocally the
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: best of their generation. It was a tainted generation, undoubtedly,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: and none of us purely know who did and who
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: did not, because as you said, there are people in
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the Hall who gambled. Potentially even on the sport, there
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: are people who were involved inclusion. There also were people
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: who used steroids, and we never knew they use steroids.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: So I don't feel as if I'm in a position
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: to be holier than now. I would have them in
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: the Hall. Here's the distinction I would have, though, is
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I probably take them out of the record books. I
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: still think Kank Aaron deserves to be the home run
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: King because I'm going to work under the assumption that
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: his performance wasn't enhanced, and so I probably would have
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Barry Bonds in. He was, in my opinion, unequivocally the
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: best player or one of the best players of his generation.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: But I'm not sure that I would regard him as
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: being in the hallowed space that is the annals of
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the Records, in one of the most vonted records in
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: one of the best sports of our lifetimes, which is baseball,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: and that's the home run record. So that's the distinction
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: i'd make. I know that's a little bit murky maybe
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: on the fringes there, but in the Hall of Fame
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: for me, probably not in the record books. And that
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: probably goes for Clemens as well. He maybe doesn't go
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: down as one of the best pictures of all time,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: but he definitely goes down as one of the best
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: pictures of his generation. I don't know how much he
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: was assisted. I can't really prognosticate that he had a
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: tremendous career. He dominated at different points in his career.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Has so many cy youngs. He deserves to be in.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: But keep some of those guys out of the peak
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: of the record books.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: That's interesting. I disagree with you. I think that every
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: statistic has a story behind it. Hank Aaron, you know
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: a wonderful man. You know, he played in Atlanta where
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: it was the ballpark was known as the launching Pad,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: you know so his seven fifty five reflect that. You know,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: that's the story of Also, for what it's worth, Hank
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: wrote in his autobiography, you tried amphetamines, you know so.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: And one thing about the problem I have with these
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: stereo guys not getting in is the Hall of Fame
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: is now telling a story in which wonderful human beings
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: played the game for seventy five eighty five years until
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Mark maguire came along, you know, and then then it
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: turned bad. And that that's why many of our generation's
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: best players are not in the Hall of Fame. Will
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: table Pete Rose for the moment, but like, you know,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: so that's that's like it's almost like Gaylord Perry, you know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: King who wrote a book about writing a spitball. He
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: wrote a book. You know, It's like it's like Austin
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Powers writing his book. You know, like like there's no
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: denying it. So it's like it's not like someone said
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: to Gaylord Perry, well, here's here's you know, saliva or
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: whatever else, use it. And also here of steroids and
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: game Lard's Oh I'm drawing the line at steroids. Gaylord
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: wasn't offered steroids. You know, steroids are a function of
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: technological evolution, right, Like who's to say who that the
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: babe wouldn't have used steroids if they had been available
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: to him. So that's my problem to me, Steroids are
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: not don't reflect the change in morality, they reflect the
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: change in technology.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Can It's good that you and I are modeling respectful
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: disagreement as we say, as we said, you're absolutely right,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and the home run race between Sosa and McGuire revitalized
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: baseball and had led to in that whole ster era,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: made a lot of money for the owners and really
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: rejuvenated the sport as fans came out of the shadows
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: to start watching it again. Can I want to I
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: want to ask you a few questions of perspective as
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: we look at Aaron Judges' career. Unequivocally one of the
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: best players of today's generation, But can you put him
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: in perspective of your time covering sports in the New
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: York market? Where does this guy deserve to be in
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the Yankees lore?
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I think that when you factor in the difficulties of
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: the sport now and just how few guys have put
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: together sustained runs, I think he has a strong case
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: for being a top ten all time Yankee and you know,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: certainly he will be undisputedly by the time he finishes
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: his career. He's remarkable. I remember, I remember I saw him.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: The Yankees drafted him. Damon Oppenheimer draft him in twenty thirteen.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: I think for you know, he used the sandwich round
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: and he wasn't even their first pick. I think Eric
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Jagalo from Notre Dame he was their first pick. But
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: he know the Northern California guy and Yankes were in Oakland,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: so he came out to take batting practice. So I'm
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: sitting in that press box in Oakland, you know, just
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: sky high, and I'm looking down, like, who is this
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: gigantic human being? I don't know if you've watched the
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: show Police Squad with Leslie Nielsen, Okay, that's it's the
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: precursor the Naked Gun movies. And like there was a
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: character who was so tall, like they didn't even show
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: his head, you know, it's just like from the shoulders down,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: and that's what Aaron Judge reminded me of. H and
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: so yeah, but then there were so many questions obviously
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: becoming that big and be a good hitter. You know,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: it's so many holes and it's his swink, and he
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: maintained his mechanics and a lot of questions even as
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: he rose up through the Yankees minor leagues. So now
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: to be as incredible as he has been as really
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: attributed to him.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Well, And you know, I got a chance to work
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: with James Rolson, who is one of his minor league
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: hitting coaches when I was with the Minnesota Twins. He's
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: down back with the Yankees, and he talks openly about
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: some of the failures that Judge had going through the miners,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, you know, clipping that thirty percent strikeout rate,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: which is usually a death now for being a major
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: league hitter, and how hard he worked to cover some
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: of those things up and become really the hitter in
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: addition to the power hitter he is is a testament
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: to hard work. This isn't all got given for him.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: The power is. His ability to also hit for contact
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: is exceptional, and that's something that he's worked on extremely hard.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Another player i'd love to get your perspective on, is
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: where does shohe Otani in your mind, deserve to sit
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: in terms of the all time greatest to ever play
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: the game?
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: At that I think he's at the kremlat krem, right.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's it's hard to even you know. The
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: obvious comparable is the Babe Babe Ruth, because Babe was
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: a successful pitcher and intergolactively elite hitter. But you know,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: the Babe didn't want to do both. I mean I
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: realized that back back when shoe he first started and
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I interviewed Jane Levy, who wrote a great biography of Babe.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: You know, Babe wanted to focus on his hitting, and
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: like it took him a bit. He was arguing with
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: the Red Sox like I want to hit. You know,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Otani wants to do both, and that's what makes him
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: so remarkable. Yeah, I think he's you know, you could
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: make a strong case for being the best athlete in
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the world ever. You know, he's just going to keep
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: building on that case as he piles up numbers. Is
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: just what we're seeing is wholly unprecedented in the history
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: of the spot and I would argue of any sport,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like imagine a football player being the
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: quarterback and then when the other team has the ball,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: you know, being the top linebacker. I know there used
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: to be two way players more way back when, and
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: maybe still at some high schools, but I don't think
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: there was ever anyone who shigned on both sides of
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: the ball and football like Otani doesn't Baseball's.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: He's absolutely remarkable. Fans should love every second of getting
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: getting to watch him play ken. So, as you know,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Otani is getting paid seven hundred million dollars and a
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: ten year deal. Judge is getting paid three hundred and
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: sixty million dollars in a nine year deal. You've boldly
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: stated that you think they're actually underpaid. Would you like
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: to elaborate on that point?
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Gosh I said that, well, I mean Otani clearly is right.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, especially with the way the contract is structure.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: But he's only making two million dollars and right now,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: right and then the rest is all deferred. So that's
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: that's just silly. You know. Of course he's able to
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: supplement that with his endorsement income. And yeah, for Aaron Judge,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think what he means to the Yankees'
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: brand and to their attendance, you know, Aaron Judge. I'm
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: not sure how many other players right now, position players
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: in particular, like you would say a team's fans would say, well,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: no matter what, we're going to get to see Aaron
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Judge play tonight, you know, like we're going to buy
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: a ticket. Maybe the Yankees will when they're usual ninety
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: five games, maybe they'll stink and only win you know,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: eighty nine, but no matter what, we're going to go
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: out there and get to see one of the all
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: time greats play. So yeah, I think forty million dollars
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: is very reasonable salary for aaron judge, And if I
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: said in the past he was underpaid, I guess also
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: back myself.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think there's a strong argument to be made,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: especially with the Otani contract. As you stated, he gets
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: paid two million dollars per year for the first ten years.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: He then gets paid sixty eight million dollars per year
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: for the next ten years. In the meantime, the Dodgers.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: He's making money on all of his endorsements, but so
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: two are the Dodgers on all their sponsorship deals. And
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they're investing some of that money to pay
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: him down the road, but I don't know what the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: net that they'll actually ultimately have to pay him based
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: upon the proceeds they're getting from having him on the
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: field and the championships that they're going to win en route.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Can we touched on this a little bit earlier when
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I started my career, which was a little bit after you.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: The general manager was a different type of person. They
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: were big personality, they were charismatic, They tended to be
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: very present in the media, very vocal, very transparent, and
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: they were prone to playing things by the gut as
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: well as by the book. I'm thinking of guys like
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Omar Minaya and Kevin Towers, Jim Bowden and Jim Hendry,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: and those types of types of guys. Today's general manager
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: is a little bit different, right. He's extremely intelligent, savvy,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: a little bit more risk averse, and quite a bit
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: more guarded when it comes to interacting with the media.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: So in your career, how did you adjust your approach
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: to interacting with yesterday's general managers versus today's breed of
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: general manager sat.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: I think it helped. I made my best efforts to
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: learn the language, you know, to learn analytics and to
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: understand them and to appreciate them. So, yeah, you're right.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: When I started my career, I meant, you know, Kevin
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Tower is one of the most special human beings I
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: ever got to interact with. Just what a funny sweet man,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: gone far too soon. But so I was able to
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: speak his lingo. And you mentioned Omar and Jim Hendry
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I just saw last week at Yankees camp. But then
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I felt like I was able to adapt and speak
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: to I have a very nice relationship with David Stearns,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: you know, with the Mets, and and I mean, I
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: guess JD. Wasn't that much younger than I was a
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: little younger than me. But but yeah, I think the
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: fact that I understood where they were coming from. And yeah,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: maybe I didn't agree with everything they did, but I
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: didn't agree with everything the old school gms did either,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, my willingness to speak their language and to
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: respect their approach and philosophy as opposed to there were
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: certainly many media types who just shook their fists at
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: the whole analytics movement, right, and oh, you're using a computer.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: How could you use a computer to make a decision
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: like that? So I was very open minded to these
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: new processes and measures.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: It's an art form to be able to connect with
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: both types, and I think you did it extremely well
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: throughout your career. Can we have a collective bargaining agreement
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: that is expiring at the end of twenty twenty six.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: You've referred to it as the kind of the billion
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: dollar question, which I think is spot on. If you
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: were to be giving advice to the commissioner and the
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: owners or to the players association, what would you encourage
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: them to consider to avoid what appears to be the inevitable,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: which could be a protracted lockout or suspension of play.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that I would encourage, Like obviously I would.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: I'm a moderate person by nature, and I would. I
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: would like to see baseball not destroy itself. So I
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: do think there are moderates in both houses, if you will,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: that can find common ground. And I think there are
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: people on the player's side who are open to a
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: salary cap that I really do mean. I maybe Bruce
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Meyer w have lightning struck at me for saying that,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: but I would encourage Bruce to pull his membership. There
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: are because you know, it's happened that, like you you've
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: seen how salaries have evolved. You know that top one percent, yeah,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: keeps going up. Oh Toni Soto, Kyle Tucker, but that
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: next even that next heire like that All Star but
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: who wasn't a world changer? That salary is stayed pretty
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: steady like that, that number has not gone up. So
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: if there's a salary cap by which there's no more
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: fifty one million dollar per year, but now the person
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: who was making fifteen can make twenty and the person
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: who was making one can make five, you know, with
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: the floors obviously, the floors and caps, I think that's
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: a possibility. But on the other side, I would encourage
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: the owners to not be hell bent on a salary cap.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Like what fascinates me that? And I'm be curious to
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: get your thoughts. It's like with the Kyle Tucker contract
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: that obviously that set off moralarms when no moral alarms
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: were needed. So it was well, four years, two forty right,
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: two hundred and forty million, and the Dodgers are essentially
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: going to pay four hundred and eighty million, right because
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: it's a hundred percent luxury tax. So what number would
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: we have to put that luxury tax at where the
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Dodgers would have passed? You know what, if it was
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: a two hundred percent tax, so they would have paid
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: seven to twenty, would they have passed? Then? What about
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: three hundred percent? And it's nine to sixty? So is
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: there a number that would actually serve as a deterrent
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: to the Dodgers, to the Mets and Steve Comb on
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: to the aeties. You know, So that to me fascinates
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: me personally. I'm wondering what you think about that.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what you're talking about is there are
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: creative ways to curb spending that are beyond this notion
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: of a cap. The other thing I agree with you
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: entirely is I actually we've talked about this on rosters
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: storings before, which is I think when we hear cap,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: the union is fixated on the most that can be spent,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and I think their focus should be on what is
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: the least that teams could spend, also known as the floor,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: because I think if they raise the floor enough, even
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: if they pinch the ceiling down, there actually will be
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: more money for the players. And I think that should
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: be the goal of the union. And there's a way
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: to do this. And you know, it's it's hard to
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: say this because you wouldn't have thought of this twenty
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: years ago, But if we follow the lead of what
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: the NBA is doing where there is more revenue sharing,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: and then there's motivation to drive more revenue because the
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: more revenue that's driven, if it's above and beyond what's expected,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: it gets redistributed appropriately to the players into the owners.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: So there's a joint motivation. But you know one thing
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I look at ken from a competitive standpoint is I
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: think I'm saying this right. It's been ten years since
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: a team in one of the Central Divisions has won
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: a World Series, the Cubs in twenty sixteen. It's also
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: been twenty two years since a team in the top
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: or the bottom fifteen payrolls has won a World Series,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: and that was the Miami Marlins, because I think, believe
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: it or not, the Kansas City Royals when they won it,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: I think they were the fifteenth highest payroll which is
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: shocking to me. But either way, there is this notion
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: of parody because there have been more teams in our
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: equivalent of our World Series or a Championship than in
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: the NFL and the NBA recently due to a lack
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: of dynasties. But there are these swaths of teams that
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: just have not been able to compete at the top level.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: I think we have to address it somehow. I hope
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: they take the thoughtfulness and care to do that, because
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: I think the game kind of really hinges on that
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: right now. But you brought up a creative way, which
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: I think is maybe we don't focus on the notion
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: of a cap, but we focus more on aggressive taxation.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: And I think the other thing we could really focus
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: on is really making that floor aggressive so that teams
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: do have to spend a certain amount so that we
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: can discernibly show the players more is being invested in them.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: And then we start adopting a little bit of that
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: NBA program where if there's more profit sharing effectively, if
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: there's more money driven into the game, both sides will
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: be motivated to do it because both sides will benefit
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: from it. And I think that could be very beneficial
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: over a period of time.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, and I agree in the competitive landscape part.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: And I look at your Milwaukee Brewers, like you know,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: people point fingers at certain franchises, and I think those
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: franchises deserve out their fingers pointed at them in terms
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: of not spending enough and pocketing revenue. But no one
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: accused of the Milwaukee Brewers of doing that. Like Mark on
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: on Asio is a platinum level owner who I think
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: the entire industry agrees does everything he can every year
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: to win. But like in no universe can the Milwaukee
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Brewers afford Kyle Tucker at those.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Terms right and the millwork. Walkee Brewers, like so many
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: of the smaller market teams, are doing such incredible things
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: to get to the playoffs. They're fighting their way tooth
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: and nail to win one series, but then they're just
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: not stacking up against these payroll behemos once they get
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: to the second, third, and ultimate rounds of the playoffs.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: I hope that changes, and I hope it changes soon
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: because those markets deserve to see champions as well, I know,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: more of a level playing field. Ken. Before I let
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: you go, I wanted to ask one last question, which is,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: as you're looking to the twenty twenty six Major League season,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: what are you looking for to see if the lessons
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: from the Dugout are live and thriving in the game.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Is there something you're looking to that would encourage you
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: that your book is having an impact still in the
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: game in twenty twenty six and beyond.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: With that, I just look for tribute displays of good character,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: you know, like I mean, look look what Bryce Harper
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: did after the WBC final, right going over to congratulate
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: the Venezuela players, Like that's what a lesson, What a
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: great lesson about being a you know, uh, not being
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: a sore loser. And we go back to Yamamoto last
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: last October in terms of cleaning the dugout, and like
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: another one. You know, we have a big chapter on
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: errors and overcoming errors. I mean, poor mister Orion Kirkering
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: with the Phillies, you know, had that season losing error
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: for the Phillies. How is he going to react now?
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Is he gonna you know, he's gonna be able to
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: recover from that. So those are the kind of things
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I'll be looking at.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: There are moments of community where we're all competing, but
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, we are a community
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: and we're trying to uphold the game of baseball and
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: leave it in a better place than when we started.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: If we can achieve that, then I think we've adhered
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: to some of the tenets of your book. Ken. Thank
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: you so much for an extremely thoughtful conversation. Stay with
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: us through the break. On the other side, Listener questions
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: with Producer Wyatt on Rosters to Rings. Welcome back to
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Rosters to Rings in a three segment show. This has
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: been recorded as one of our Top three segments. It's
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: producer Wyatt joining us for listener questions. What do we
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: have this week? All right?
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: That first question is from Jake in Chicago. As players
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: are gearing up for Opening Day. Do MLB guys actually
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: get a chance to follow or get into March Madness
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: or is it all baseball all the time during this stretch.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, these guys absolutely love March Madness. It's almost as
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: if they're getting prepared for the college basketball season, not
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: the baseball season. The number of different creative ways these
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: guys bet on the Sweet sixteen the whole tournament is
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: absolutely remarkable to witness. So most clubhouses I've been in
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: spring training, they will print a oversized bracket that covers
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: a full wall and they're like three of these things.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: One of them is just the straight picks, and they
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: what they do is they go around the room. Every
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: player chips in some money and based upon the money,
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: you get a certain number of selections out of the
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: hat and you get those teams, and if your team wins,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: you continue to advance. Then there's another bracket, which is
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: if you do it against the spread, and if you
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: win or if you lose against the spread, the other
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: guy gets your team and you get to advance. Then
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: there's other scenarios where you see these guys actually having
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: drafts where you have eight players drafting eight teams apiece,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: and then they make horse they do horse trading along
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: the way to see if they can it's like the
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: stock market going up and down, so there's no lack
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: of creativity. These guys have about engaging and it's amazing.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: It's across countries. You see Venezuelan players, Dominican players, Puerto
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Rican players, Panama players, and Columbian players all getting involved
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: in this activity. There's always a surprise winner at the end.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: There's always a lot of fanfare and ad amount of
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: money that changes hands. It also reminds me of this
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: incredible experience we had in Texas at one point, which
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: was a team building scenario which to kind of mirror
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: the March madness. We had about sixty five players in
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: camp and we had a free throw shooting competition where
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: one of our coaches had each player come out and
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: shoot three free throws and then he seated them one
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: through sixty five. And then we had a bracket that
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: we set up and before every day we'd have about
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: four or five head to heads. Each guy would shoot
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: five free throws head to head, and whoever shot more
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: than one would advance, and then there was all sorts
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: of chicanery going on, and the guy who won was
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Hanser Alberto, our utility infielder from the Dominican Republic who
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: was a terrible shooter, but what he was handy with
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: was an air horn, and every time that his opponent
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: would shoot, he would blow the air horn. And surprisingly,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: his opponents never shot very well, so he would make
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: one or two shots, they would bury zero, and he
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: would advance, and he ultimately won the whole tournament. So
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: these guys love competition in the In the fall, they
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: get involved in fantasy football. In the spring, they're involved
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: in March Madness, and they love every minute of it.
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: Next question is from Lauren in San Diego. How concerned
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: should the MLB be about the number of quality starting
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: pitchers already on the il right now going into the season.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: You've got Garrett Cole, Spencer Strider, Zach Wheeler, Carlos Rodon,
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: and Hunter Green all on the injured list, and on
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: top of that, do you think this is just kind
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: of part of the new normal, you know, with all
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: these pitchers throwing so hard and spinning the ball so much.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think this is a great question.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: This is a great topic. We've touched on it a
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: little bit, but just as a point of review, I
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: you know, I think I think doctors around their game.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Minnesota's head physician is named doctor Chris Camp. He's the
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: lead orthopedic surgeon of the Mayo Clinic. He has very
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: famously said, there's two things that are going on in
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: baseball right now, which is two trains coming together to collide.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: One is it is true, the harder you throw, the
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: more likely you are to get outs, and that's what
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: we're paying for. But also the harder you throw, the
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: more likely you are to get injured. And those two
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: things are at full force. I you know, additional names
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: I would throw out there to compliment the question that
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: was asked. You've got Joe Musgrave and Justin Deciel, Shane McClanahan,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Corbyn Burns, Blake Snell, Pablo Lopez. I just took a
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: look at that group of players. That group of players
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: has accumulated five Cy Young Awards and twenty four All
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Star appearances amongst them, and I'm sure we're missing some
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: people here. Why So that's just the guys who are
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: not going to be available on opening day. Those guys
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: collectively make two hundred and seventy five million dollars in
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty six alone, and they will be on the sidelines,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: And just as another point of reference, you know, the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: average team needs to get to somewhere between forty six
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: and fifty war as a team to be a viable
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: playoff contending team. The average WAR that that group is
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: producing per player is somewhere between three and a half
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: to four and a half war per person. So at
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: four and a half war, that's one tenth of the
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: war you need as a team that's sitting on the
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: bench right now. And in some cases, Garrett Cole is
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: a clip seven war on his own. He will not
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: be available to start the season for the New York Yankees.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: These things are very concerning for Major League Baseball. It's
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: very concerning for Major League Baseball from a competitive standpoint,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: It's very concerning for the owners from an investment standpoint.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: The league as a whole is having a ton of
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: exceptionally talented players who are making a great deal of money,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: who will impact the competitiveness of the league dramatically, all
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: on the sidelines to start the year. And that's just
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: to start the year. Wide. When we have this show
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: at the All Star break, we should revisit this list
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: and see if it's grown or shrunk. I hate to
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: say my prediction from years past is it's most likely
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: to be even worse come All Star Break than it
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: is today heading into the season. This is a major
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: thing that Major League Baseball continues to try to work on.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of proposed fixes here, none that have
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: really proven to impact dramatically. As these guys keep learning
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: how to throw harder and with more force on their arms,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: their muscles are getting bigger, their training is getting better,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: but the strength of their tendons and ligaments stay the same,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: and as a result, they get compromised at some point.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: And we're seeing all of these guys get injured, and
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: especially as we just reference some of the best players
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: in the game.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: Incredibly interesting that, and I'm very interested to see what
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: the counter is here, whether it's changes to rehab, changes
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: to you know, revamping these guys coming back from the
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: off season. It's going to be interesting to see what's
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: effective and how they can kind of solve this problem.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: Last question is from Matt in New York and he
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: wants to know what are your thoughts going into the
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: season on the ABS system. And you were at spring training,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: you got to see it firsthand, but where do you
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: think the early returns of this new new system in
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: place are gonna look like.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: So this is a wonderful topic, Matt, So abs is
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: the automatic ball strike system, and so how this will
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: functionally work and what we saw in spring training. Each
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: team has two challenges that they can use throughout the
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: course of the game. If you use it and you're correct,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: you keep it. If you use it and you're incorrect,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: you lose it. And so what is happening right now
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: is the umpire calls a ball or strike. There are
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: three players who are able to challenge. It's either the pitcher,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: the hitter or the catcher, and they have to do
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: it in a timely fashion. You can't look to the dugout,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: you can't look to your third or first base coach
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: and ask for guidance. You have to make it almost
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: real time after the pitch is thrown and then you
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: and then the replay will show whether you were correct
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: or if the umpire was correct. So I think what
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: teams are doing right now, based upon the fact that
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: you only have two challenges and you have to get
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: these right, is they're trying to instruct the players and
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: inform them when's the right time to use it. The
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: first pitch of the game is not the right time
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: to use it, but maybe a three to two pitch
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: with men on second and third and two outs in
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: the fourth inning when you're down one is absolutely the
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: right time to use it. So there's a risk tolerance
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: that we're trying to instill in each of the players
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: as to when to use it. What we found early
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: in the process why you won't be shocked to hear
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: is both teams have burnt both of their attempts, like
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: within the first twelve pitches of the game, and then
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: you go to the rest of the game and they're like,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: oh boy, that's a bad outcome. The other thing I
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: think what we're learning, because we're inclined to scout every
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: single action that goes on in the field, is some
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: guys seem to be a lot better and accurate at
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: this than other people are. So, for instance, catchers seem
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: to be a lot more accurate than pitchers. Their perspective
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: has been the most accurate. Between the hitters, the catchers
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: and the pitchers, the catchers have had the most success.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: But then not all catchers are created equal. Some are
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: not actually very good at this, and so it's trying
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: to instill in players, Hey listen, you're rated. This is
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: not very good. So we're taking away the proverbial green
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: light for you to challenge. We're going to give it
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: to other guys who seem to be better at this.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: But really, more than anything, we're trying to really encourage
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: the players use this when this matters. And it's tough
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: because at some point we may need to sacrifice the
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: guys at bat in the third inning, which is inconsequential
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: at that moment, and have him endure a strikeout to
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: be able to save it for the eighth inning at
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: a pivotal moment in the game, when that call could
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: be the difference between extending the inning and scoring runs
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: or the inning coming to an end and ultimately us
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: losing a game. So a lot of conversations are going
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. I think this is going to
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: be a work in progress. The last thing I'd like
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: to say about this why it is I think sometimes fans'
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: perspectives are incorrect as to how umpires are treating this.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: The more umpires that I've communicated with over time, they
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: want the calls to be right. They know the fans
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: are watching with the ability to see whether guys are
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: safe or out on the field on the basis that is,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: they know that you can see whether the ball is
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: fair or foul down the left field and right field line.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: They also know that we have the ability to see
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: whether it's a ball or strike. They just want the
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: calls to be right. They don't want anyone to write
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: about the game later and say, hey, but for this
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: blown call, the game could have had a different outcome.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: They wanted to be right. Of course, they would like
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: to be as accurate as they possibly can, but more
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: than anything, they don't want to actually influence the outcomes
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: of games, So when they do something that isn't right,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: they would prefer to have it corrected. I think fans
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: sometimes view it as that the umpires are against these
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: devices that are being used to sharpen up the accuracy
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: of the game. They are actually as big proponents as
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: the players and the coaches in the front offices. Tend
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: to be incredible.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: I'm really excited to see this new system in place,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: and that's all I've got. And happy opening day to
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: you and to all of our listeners.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: One of the best days of the year. Hope Springs
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: to turn for everyone. Hope everyone has a wonderful season.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next week. And monsters to raise. H