Latest / Authentic Living / The Goldilocks Dilemma in Senior Leadership (Part II) with Oliver Johnston

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The Goldilocks Dilemma in Senior Leadership (Part II) with Oliver Johnston · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:35
  Interview last week was so good that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
• 0:40
  If you missed last week, you'll find the link in the show notes.
• 0:45
  It's not mandatory that you listen, but we wanna make sure that you don't miss out on this
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  amazing conversation.
• 0:53
  Hi, everyone.
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  It's, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:55
  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
• 0:57
  Today, I have a special new colleague and, Oliver, and I just, are are part of a new
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  mastermind, which I feel very, very privileged to be involved with.
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  And Oliver is has done some fascinating work.
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  He's been in the field of leadership.
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  I'm gonna say leadership consulting well over.
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  We don't wanna date you no longer, but over 25, 30 years.
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  And, he's I'm gonna say focusing on an area that, we're seeing a lot more of, lately in the
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  business consulting world, which is stepping out from the top.
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  Where senior leaders kinda are finding that next step about.
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  So now what?
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  I've I've worked very hard.
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  I've I've create the space of maybe starting a legacy with the company that I'm with.
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  And so, like now, what do we do?
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  So, Oliver, thanks so much for coming in today to chat with us.
• 1:58
  My pleasure, Roxanne.
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  It is Carrie.
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  Right?
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  So it's about embracing that and even me now I couldn't be 57 in January.
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  And then I'm talking about all these things that I wanna do, but I find my some of my
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  people around me, maybe not people in the same kind of roles are thinking about slowing down.
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  And I'm like, oh my goodness.
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  I have this and this and this to do.
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  You're having diff it's like you're having, like, what like you said, you're right.
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  Arrivals with departures and nothing against people that want you know, to to slow down.
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  But sometimes you you have to find the right groups to be able to have those conversations
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  because you know what?
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  If you wanna stop completely at 55.
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  That's fantastic.
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  But what are you gonna do with that time if you do decide to retire?
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  And if you are going to continue, how is it that you tap into, to your point, that last
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  golden blue hairs, right,
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  Yeah.
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  And and the rules of the game have broken down.
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  Thank goodness.
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  I mean, in terms of retirement, Retirement is a relevant new concept that was introduced in
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  Germany in 1881.
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  At that stage, the retirement age was set at 70.
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  But the life expectancy was much less than that.
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  Right?
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  So most people died anyway before they ever got to that.
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  In the United States, the the retirement age was set at 65.
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  And at that stage, life expectancy was 58.
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  So again, in the US, was done we create this retirement, but we expect very, very few people
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  to get there.
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  The retirement dates has sort of stuck around 60, 65.
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  Now as a as a recognized, I know people will do it differently, but that and yet we're living
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  to 90 plus.
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  So the whole thing is broken down.
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  And if you look at the the the old career model of education career retirement, That if you
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  look at the bit between career and retirement, there's now a bit which is post the main role
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  that you've had and retiring, which is stopping work, and that can go on for 20 years.
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  I'm part of that.
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  I mean, I've been in there for 10 years and tend to go on for quite a while longer.
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  So we do really need to rethink this both as a society, but also each of us individually and
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  go, if I It's why I use the word step of the term stepping out rather than retiring because
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  you step out from the the role you're doing, and you're and I you're either gonna retire And
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  what does that mean?
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  Cause there's retiring and still working, retiring to a very rich leisure life, retiring
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  to whatever, or I'm gonna still I'm gonna keep working.
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  But I'm gonna work less and whatever.
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  So it's an area that that we don't have the concepts and the words yet familiar to help
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  help people think it through what it really means.
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  So let's let's, you know, in your the report, that that, you're putting out.
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  It talked about companies really getting prepared.
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  And there was some data that came from that.
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  So let's talk about some of the companies that you have been have worked with or that you know
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  of that have done it well.
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  For that middle subset.
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  And what kind of things are they putting in place, or maybe what are they, what are kind of
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  the things that they're recognizing they need to implement, and they're starting to, and what
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  is still a struggle with with the with the companies to work with?
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  I mean, I think if if we stand back and take it from an organizational through look at it
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  through an organizational lands and quite a long term lens.
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  There's plenty of evidence that even large companies and and many successful companies
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  still view, for example, a change in the chief executive or a change in the chief finance
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  officer attains them without they treat them as one off events.
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  Well, they're actually part of an ongoing process of of people leaving and people
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  starting.
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  K?
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  And and Again, there's pretty good evidence that it's one of the most important things that
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  happens in an organization to change a more of a senior executive affect share price
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  reputation, buy in from employees, etcetera, etcetera.
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  And And and if we get and I think it's it's between 28 and 38% I think it is of senior
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  level transitions or disappointments.
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  Either they fail completely or they don't bring what was expected.
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  And when it that's huge, and and they re there there's one Harvard statistic that The impact
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  of getting transitions wrong in the top of in the top companies, equates to a
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  $1,000,000,000,000 a year.
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  In in lost effectiveness and loss and value and whatever.
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  So it's it's a, you know, it's a big thing and yet Today, I mean, and in the survey we did,
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  the very great majority of organizations are not Don't have a formal approach to enabling
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  their senior leaders to leave well.
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  And therefore create the space for the new leaders to arrive and to do that in an
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  effective and seamless way.
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  And a couple of couple of implications of that.
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  One is that, if you're not careful, you're if you pick successors You're ripening your
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  successors to be picked by your your competitors because you get them ready to take
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  over.
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  But you don't manage the bit of when are people the incumbent's going to be leaving.
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  So they're left hanging around, ready to go.
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  And you've just ripen them for your competitor.
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  Hey.
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  Well, come on, work with us because we've so, you know, there's a lot of times we can be done
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  that way.
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  And we're proposing at the moment that succession planning.
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  It needs to be redefined because at the moment, I did a Google search of 20 and definitions of
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  succession planning.
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  Okay.
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  So from, you know, from Harvard through, a whole range of different companies or whatever.
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  Everyone lived in the same.
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  It was about identifying and developing your leaders to take over.
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  Okay.
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  Not one of them mentioned helping the senior leaders existent to exit gracefully and well.
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  So it's a little bit like succession time that is is aimed at one side of the equation, and
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  we're completely missing the other.
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  As somebody said to me, And it's a little bit like in an athletics relay race.
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  We're concentrating on all our efforts on helping the person who's gonna receive the
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  button, but we're not doing anything to help the person who's actually gonna hand it over.
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  So it it just it just doesn't make any sense.
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  So that's why our proposition is we need to have a much more formal.
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  Of thoughts through approach to this and enable people to leave well, feeling supported so they
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  leave as advocates and ambassadors They make sure that succession is working right and
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  whatever and then have the people who are ready to succeed prepared and ready to take over.
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  So you create seamless transitions.
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  Well, at the cost That's the business case.
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  Yeah.
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  Of course.
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  But that's costing you saying it's been done.
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  40 to the the amount of a $1,000,000,000,000.
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  That's a lot of money.
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  And if you were to address it well, like you said, and there's no one particular way to do
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  it in reference to to planning.
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  It depends on industry and, you know, all that's things, you know, the demographics of
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  your of your teams, those types of things.
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  But starting to think about it, like you said, if as much as 10 years out, which the thought
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  of 10 years out, you know, that's a lot of people would be like, woah, that's that's rainy
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  really soon, but with a lot of changes, that happens within companies.
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  I would think of, you know, most of the, you know, when I manage my portfolio on health and
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  wellness, any company was in flux 75% of my portfolio was in flux at any given point.
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  Right?
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  So, clearly, there's there's cost to change happening.
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  So that's showing you that people need to plan.
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  Well, here's Roxanne here's some of the numbers from the the the study.
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  So we asked, we did, obviously, desk research, and we did a number of, 1 to 1 structured
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  interviews.
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  And then we surveyed 92, senior HR business partners to try and get a sense of this.
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  What we learned from that is that 5% of senior leaders are rated as well equipped for life
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  beyond the organization.
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  95% aren't well equipped.
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  Right?
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  So there there is something to think about.
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  23% of the organizations are rated as very supportive of their senior leaders as they they
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  think and plan.
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  So all the rest aren't.
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  Right?
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  And that not only 9% of organizations have a formal approach.
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  Yeah.
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  80% of more than 80% of the HR business partners said we should have a formal approach.
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  So there's something not connecting here in in, you know, in that.
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  And, I'm delighted with the opportunity to highlight and go think about it.
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  It is, you know, it is there are big costs to not getting this right and not just financial
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  costs, but reputational costs, opportunity costs, and the view of whether you're a good
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  company to work for.
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  All of those things are are actually affected by.
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  Right.
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  And what, you know, if you have the opportunity to create something that's more formal, and
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  when someone leaves at the right time, you you you create champions.
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  Cause if I've been with a company and I've spend the majority of my time building this
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  identity of this company along with feeling very good.
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  And I'm leaving on a on a good note.
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  I'm gonna be the best champion and advocate.
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  I've been talking about it, you know, in every different realm versus if I had a horrible
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  experience, I'm I'm maybe gonna be a bit scrunolds, and I'm not gonna be saying the best
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  thing.
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  And we know that with social proof out there, guess what?
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  That that, you know, it it does spread like wildfire when people start sharing things.
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  Now, I would like you to speak to, you know, just maybe any senior executives, listening to
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  this.
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  And he or she's like, well, we don't even have anything.
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  What where do, you know, how do I what do I do?
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  I I need to support I'm scared because I haven't even thought about this or I'm running
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  for my feet.
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  I'm I'm there's not this is another thing to add to my to do list Oliver.
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  What what would you tell them to do as some primary steps to start,
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  you know, another one is I know I should be thinking about this.
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  And I keep meaning to think about it, and then they don't, right, because that that's also
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  very common.
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  I think I think there's a numb I think there's a number of things.
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  I think first of all, it's important to understand what's going on.
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  Okay?
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  So understand that it's transition and it's in one of the most major transitions in your life.
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  And even if you hang on by your fingernails, it will eventually happen.
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  Okay.
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  So it's gonna happen.
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  So so think about it.
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  And it's multi dimensional because it can involve your identity.
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  It can involve your relationships.
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  It can involve your in, you know, involve your intellectual activity, your physical and
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  emotional well-being, your finances, but as well as that it will change your daily routines
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  in your habits.
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  So this is a big thing to move through.
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  And I think first of all, to understand that, Second is to understand that you have a choice.
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  You can you can see it as coming into the arrivals hall, or you can see it as departing
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  from the departure lines.
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  That's just the choice of which way you're gonna do it.
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  You can understand your finances so you really understand what you can afford.
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  I I had one senior person.
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  I was so life is different for everybody.
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  And and she said to me, no.
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  No.
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  My family's in a good order, which they were.
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  And she said, you know, we tend to live a pretty frugal life.
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  I mean, we do have 3 resources, but when it I agree.
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  That doesn't sound like a frugal life to me, but we all judge it at whatever level we're at.
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  But knowing that question is enough when is it is enough enough?
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  And very often, we get towards the the latter states of our One of the things that may be
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  emergencies are wisdom increases.
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  And we start to go, there isn't as much value to ever chasing ever more, actually settling
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  for enough is enough.
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  And therefore, I can I can I can live the lifestyle much more?
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  So so working that out and and, you know, understanding that, and just understanding that
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  sense about being fifty something if you happen to be in that, that, you know, at the top of
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  your career curve, the bottom of your happiness curve, your own age's views might start to play
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  out against you.
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  And also other people's views of that may well start to impact because other people will take
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  the cease and super youth, so understanding that.
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  Then to reflect.
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  And I think they reflect.
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  There's a million things to reflect on, obviously, but From the ones in my experience,
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  both my always been working with other people, is that sense of the grim reaper coming into
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  view?
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  That when we were twenty, if we were healthy, we would think about it.
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  Yet later towards the the end of your career and your member, It does sort of come into view
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  more at that point.
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  So what meaning do you give to the rest of your time on the planet?
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  And what does that mean to direct you where your energies will go and whatever?
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  However, the excitement of unless you have something that will restrict your life, you
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  know, your lifespan, you've probably another 30 plus years.
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  So So what are you gonna how are you gonna make that extraordinary?
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  And I think also to reflect on, therefore, when you get that, what will be important allows a
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  result what will be unimportant.
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  So maybe this is a man man man thing, I think.
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  But maybe the Mercedes in the car park will be less important than the future than it is now.
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  Or the Gucci bag will will a a a smaller one will do your own.
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  You know, whatever those things are, it's just just being clear about that.
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  There's also, I think, something about what would you miss You know, you're in an exciting
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  job.
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  You're doing exciting things.
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  There's lots of benefits and rewards and there's status and there's all of that.
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  One of the things you're gonna miss when you do because coming to terms with that is important.
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  I I can tell you that if all the people I've coached No one has no one yet has said to me.
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  I wish I'd I'd not done this, you know, the stepping out bit, but lots of people say I wish
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  I'd done this sooner because actually, the rewards I was getting from working are not the
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  rewards I'm now looking for or whatever else.
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  And, and also to think about what's getting in the way.
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  What's stopping me from moving forward?
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  And then the last bit is the plan.
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  My I think there are 3 horizons to plan for.
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  The one is what's my plan to finish well?
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  Okay.
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  So what I need to do to finish well?
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  The second one is what am I gonna do with the the the the next third of my life?
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  But there's one in between that is how am I gonna manage the 1st 6 months?
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  Because that's when a lot of things derail and you're experimenting and Work is the operating
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  principle of your life if you're a senior leader.
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  It defines a lot about when you take all of this when you go home with it.
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  Once that's gone, what's gonna be the operating principle for your life and how do you create
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  that?
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  So those things can can, you know, So the 3 horizons, and then in terms of the next 30
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  years or at least the next 5 years, a couple of things to to think about.
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  1st of all, life is an improvised re art.
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  You know,
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  an improvised re art.
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  An improvisery art.
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  So it's Yeah.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  The art of improvisation.
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  Okay.
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  The second thing is a to b planning doesn't work, which is what most of us do.
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  We go.
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  I'm at point a.
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  How do I get the point b?
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  What are the accents I need to take?
• 19:27
  When you think of something as enormous as the next third of your life, it's not a debate for
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  I know I know this from the people that it's 85% of people a to b doesn't work because it's
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  It's a to b or maybe c or d or e or even f or t.
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  How how do you plan for that?
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  Well, that's the reality, and it is planable for.
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  And the methodology that I use with people is option appraisal is to go first of all, what is
• 20:01
  it?
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  How are you gonna judge the options for what you do after you've stepped out?
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  That can be, I ask the people, you know, how do you wanna feel when you wake up in the morning?
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  And they've got I wanna feel challenged.
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  They wanna feel energetic.
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  I wanna feel inspired.
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  Like, oh, okay.
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  Well, well, so that's one of your criteria of what you do next.
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  And people will say, I also I don't have enough money to completely retire.
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  So I will need to do some work.
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  Okay?
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  But I wanna be well prepared.
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  So that's another criteria.
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  Another country.
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  I want to spend more time with the people I love most, and I see a finish as a deficit
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  there.
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  So whatever I do next needs to allow me to do that.
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  And then there's the ones like, you know, I wanna play the won't allow to play the piano.
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  So whatever those are, and then you look at what are your options?
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  So what sort of things could do?
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  So you could retire to the sofa and daytime TV.
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  The problem with that is you'd probably die pretty quickly.
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  Right?
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  So to me, it's never a good option.
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  You can retire to retired but doing some work.
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  You can do, like, I've done, which is to have an on core career, which is less pressurized
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  and more enjoyable, and then said that you can you know, you can retire to leisure projects.
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  I know lots of people who retire from busy, careers.
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  I'm going to go right now.
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  I'm gonna climb my diverse.
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  Actually, quite literally, no.
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  That's my work.
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  That's replaces my work project.
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  With something else.
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  So there's lots of different options.
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  And then if you create those Roxanne, go, well, which ones will match the appraisal criteria
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  and set first?
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  And then that starts to create a blueprint for going, okay.
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  These are the things that might work for me.
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  These are the things I'll make me feel though I wanna fail.
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  And then the trick that I learned from someone I was working with, he said, you know, I will
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  not know If I get if any of these opportunities come along, I won't know in advance, but when
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  they come on and don't intuitively whether they're right for me or not, So I said, what
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  does that mean?
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  He said, so I should I should pursue all of these options.
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  Right?
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  And actively pursue them.
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  And then there's opportunities around.
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  I know which ones suit me best and whatever.
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  So there there's a way of planning for this that's different than what we normally do.
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  So you're reassessing.
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  You're giving yourself enough time to be able to say, oh, this one this option, this and this
• 22:33
  might work, but this isn't gonna work on it.
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  Oh, I like this one.
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  Well, I didn't thought about that one.
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  So you're really kind of, pivoting or adjusting as you go, giving yourself time to be able to
• 22:44
  get to the to the endpoint.
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  And not just arriving at the endpoint, like you said, with the one individual 6 weeks out, for
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  the guy that says, I'm at home.
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  You're giving yourself the the time to really be reflective and say, you know, and as a
• 23:01
  clinician, one thing that, I often say to people when I'm trying to understand what they
• 23:05
  value is, It's an exercise, you know, if if you were reflecting back if you're you're on your
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  deathbed, basically,
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  and
• 23:12
  you'll pay back, And, you're gonna the the, you know, person on their deathbed is going to tell
• 23:19
  the younger version of themselves they're gonna open their eye and they don't know it, but as
• 23:24
  miracle had happened, and they're going to basically tell the create a narrative of
• 23:29
  everything that needs to be there.
• 23:30
  So kind of on a clinical end, it makes sense for talking about value alignment, and then
• 23:37
  thinking through scenarios and and kinda you know, practicing them a bit and and learning,
• 23:42
  oh, that's not gonna work.
• 23:43
  This is gonna work.
• 23:44
  So at the end of it, you have some semblance of a model of some sort that you can work from.
• 23:50
  Which makes so much sense over.
• 23:53
  And and you see, Roxanne, the reason that that that probably should exist But in many
• 24:00
  organizations, I see the great majority of organizing what I can see.
• 24:05
  Senior leaders thinking about stepping out remains an unmentionable.
• 24:11
  You don't declare it.
• 24:12
  You don't talk about it.
• 24:13
  Give an example of that day in one of the big global law firms.
• 24:18
  Their policies are such that your final your final package is worked out on the revenues you
• 24:27
  generated in the previous 3 years.
• 24:30
  Oh.
• 24:30
  If 3 years out, you go and thinking of retiring or stepping out, the revenue streams dry up And
• 24:38
  you so declaring it becomes nonsensical.
• 24:41
  And these are very smart people.
• 24:43
  So so why would you do that?
• 24:46
  One of the impacts of that is so people don't have role models.
• 24:51
  They don't see people doing it successfully because nobody talks about it.
• 24:54
  Until very close to when we leave that.
• 24:57
  So we don't know how we really don't know how to do this.
• 25:00
  And therefore, that idea of having to create that.
• 25:05
  Makes sense of the storyline of her life with this in the context.
• 25:09
  There is some heavy lifting we might have to do at this point
• 25:13
  It's not what you're saying.
• 25:14
  The narratives of all these successes.
• 25:16
  Right?
• 25:16
  Like, I mean, how important is that?
• 25:19
  Right?
• 25:19
  Because I think that's that's the important thing is if you have all these successful
• 25:24
  transitions, right, but they're not allowed to share it at some point having, like, your
• 25:29
  coaches or whatever be able to to to spend that time.
• 25:32
  With them, I think would afford them the space.
• 25:35
  Oh, and it's why it's why our accredited coaches have all stepped out themselves.
• 25:42
  Which makes so much sense.
• 25:44
  Right?
• 25:44
  It's I
• 25:45
  didn't know what it feels like.
• 25:46
  You know?
• 25:47
  Oh, yeah.
• 25:47
  I remember
• 25:48
  I remember myself.
• 25:49
  And how poorly I didn't.
• 25:51
  And I was like, you know, you know, had the outplacement services and whatever, but I was
• 25:55
  going to the I I was trying to you know, find that rhythm and I was going to the outpatient
• 26:00
  plate, the placement, sal satellite services because I was trying to find I was I was so
• 26:06
  structured So, guess what?
• 26:07
  I was like, okay.
• 26:08
  I'm gonna go through the tumble cycle here several times.
• 26:11
  Then I realized, why do I need to go there?
• 26:14
  But it told me not of doing that for a bit.
• 26:17
  Before I kind of started to get that off of a cell phone gone, laptop gone, you know, kind
• 26:22
  of.
• 26:23
  Alright.
• 26:23
  So, like, what do I do with my No.
• 26:25
  What is what is it that I'm gonna do with my, you know, my time?
• 26:29
  And then it's funny.
• 26:30
  You're right.
• 26:30
  You you start to, you know, figure it out a bit at a time.
• 26:33
  And that's a rough period there to your point.
• 26:35
  The 1st couple months, you're like, okay.
• 26:38
  What am I gonna do until you kinda start to find, like, I phoned up cultural relative
• 26:42
  quickly and, started to figure out things, but it's still a lonely time.
• 26:46
  And then you're reflecting on that time that legacy piece that you've left behind and the
• 26:51
  connections and all those things, right, that you wanna take with you.
• 26:55
  And, I mean, clearly, if you do it well, I have most of the connections of the people I wanted
• 27:00
  to stay, not everybody, but are the ones that I wanted to stay involved in.
• 27:04
  Now, over one last question I have for you.
• 27:08
  Are for companies.
• 27:09
  Right?
• 27:10
  We know the impact.
• 27:11
  We know if if the lack of investment is costing a $1,000,000,000,000.
• 27:16
  So peep for people that our companies are thinking, you know what?
• 27:19
  This makes so much sense.
• 27:21
  I can see it.
• 27:22
  You know, I can see how it's kinda hit our bottom line.
• 27:26
  What what kinds of things should they be considering?
• 27:28
  And then I want you to tell them where they can get a hold of you so that you can support them
• 27:33
  through this.
• 27:34
  Yeah.
• 27:35
  My experience is to start small.
• 27:40
  Okay.
• 27:41
  So if you think supporting our senior, I'll give you one example.
• 27:45
  Again, it was a law firm, global law firm, and they hadn't done this before.
• 27:49
  They know it's a formal approach and they they, they did a lot.
• 27:54
  That one one of their partners was hurting.
• 27:58
  Right.
• 28:01
  And they said to the partner, would you like some support to help you leave?
• 28:05
  Well, he said, I would love that.
• 28:09
  And he had been through that episode of, psychiatric disturbance.
• 28:16
  Okay.
• 28:16
  So as well as all the stuff we've been fifty something or whatever.
• 28:20
  And a couple of incidences had had in his law practice that he felt damaged his reputation as
• 28:27
  well.
• 28:27
  So it's in a very vulnerable spot.
• 28:31
  And on a review, I could have kissed him on a a Zoom review He said to the person who'd
• 28:37
  commissioned it.
• 28:39
  You know, quite honestly, having been a lifer in the com in the firm, I was leaving unhappy,
• 28:46
  disgruntled, and annoyed.
• 28:49
  He said, because you made this coaching available, I'm now leaving us an ambassador and
• 28:54
  an advocate.
• 28:55
  Wow.
• 28:55
  K.
• 28:57
  I said to him, would you be prepared for the person you thought to to reflect that to other
• 29:03
  people.
• 29:04
  So there was a there was an example to build from Okay.
• 29:12
  Inevitably, there is resistance.
• 29:14
  There is people who will go, you know, senior leaders are not, an endangered species.
• 29:22
  They don't deserve sympathy.
• 29:23
  They're very well pet.
• 29:24
  They're very capable.
• 29:25
  And you go, yes.
• 29:27
  But the business case is to get the succession right between them leaving and the other
• 29:34
  person.
• 29:34
  And and and encouraged that.
• 29:37
  So one of the things that I do is work with the chief people officer, for example, to How do
• 29:44
  you engage the organization?
• 29:46
  Because at the end of the day, it's probably the board chair or the chief executive has to
• 29:51
  go, yes.
• 29:52
  Let's do this.
• 29:54
  So how do you get to them and having 1 or 2 real examples of where it's worked?
• 30:01
  Also, I mean, I've, I'm gonna be in the next few weeks doing a session with the executive
• 30:10
  leadership team of quite a large finance company, and it's a European, team.
• 30:15
  And We're proposing to them to go, should we sponsor helping our senior leaders to step out
• 30:25
  as far more formal process.
• 30:27
  I know I could I would put as much money as you want them at the end.
• 30:31
  We'll go, yes.
• 30:32
  Because the case is very logical and whatever.
• 30:35
  And once you've got that, then you can start to say, how do we put this into place and
• 30:39
  whatever?
• 30:40
  But it's that sense of being and I think that's why it is useful to talk to someone who knows
• 30:47
  what they're talking about.
• 30:48
  And if I've convinced anybody that that's me, then I'm really happy to talk to them about how
• 30:53
  you might go forward.
• 30:54
  I work in the because I'm passionate about this.
• 30:57
  I work in the basement.
• 30:58
  I'm very happy to do, no strings conversations.
• 31:05
  Amazing.
• 31:05
  And if from that, then people go, I see it is worth taking it forward, then we can talk
• 31:09
  about, what it's gonna cost.
• 31:11
  But I'm, you know, I'm I'm committed to go, there's something here that we need to get
• 31:15
  better at.
• 31:15
  So I'm a very happy to support that.
• 31:18
  Awesome.
• 31:18
  While building that business case, right?
• 31:20
  To take it forward, you have to be able to have, you know, the bottom line numbers that
• 31:25
  are associated with why this is an important thing to implement.
• 31:29
  So this has been an amazing conversation, Oliver.
• 31:31
  I so enjoyed it.
• 31:32
  I've learned a lot.
• 31:34
  I now understand how my transition, how it went and, why I bumbled.
• 31:41
  So I feel like I I probably in that subset of okay.
• 31:45
  You're out, but now what do you do?
• 31:46
  So I've learned a bit more about myself.
• 31:49
  So for everyone, like, you know, just reflect on where you're at if you're a senior leader.
• 31:55
  If you're, you know, chair of a board and you're recognizing you know, that you are
• 32:02
  taking care of the person that the baton is being handed to.
• 32:07
  What are you doing with the people that of are the ones that start off the handle.
• 32:12
  And what duty do you have to them?
• 32:14
  Because as we know with business, it's out there our our face, our legacy is out there in
• 32:21
  the social imprints on social media.
• 32:24
  And I think it's just being nice to people that have been good to you that have built your
• 32:29
  businesses.
• 32:30
  And, what a nice way to transition off by thinking this through.
• 32:34
  So that and then turn what you're doing for your businesses, you're you're creating a
• 32:39
  better bottom line.
• 32:40
  If you can, you know, shift that percentage down because you've prepared.
• 32:45
  So that's what I'm walking away with.
• 32:47
  Oliver, again, thanks so much.
• 32:49
  It's been amazing conversation for everyone.
• 32:52
  If you're wanting to know a bit more about relationships and how you connect on an
• 32:56
  authentic level, either at work or at home.
• 32:58
  You can go to my website at roxander@hotch.comforward/quiz.
• 33:02
  We do a mini quiz send you a little report.
• 33:04
  And if you need to chat further about next steps, I'd be more than happy to do that.
• 33:09
  Again, Oliver, we'll talk to you soon.
• 33:10
  Take care.
• 33:11
  Roxanne.
• 33:12
  Thank you very much.
• 33:14
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne.
• 33:17
  Creating the space positive, healthy change.
• 33:20
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 33:27
  roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 33:31
  We'll see you next time.
• 33:32
  An authentic living with Roxanne.