Latest / Salish Wolf / #83 Tim Miller on Project Quiver

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#83 Tim Miller on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

• 0:06
  Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
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  the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
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  world's finest traditional bow carvers.
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  I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
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  Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
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  book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
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  unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
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  the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
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  photograph his woodcraft in detail and share his story here
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  on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver, The
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  Art of Life. Through bow craft and this
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  journey, our living story is Project Quiver.
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  Let's get my lights on. Thanks for joining me, Tim.
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  Well, a pleasure. I mean, thanks for thanks for
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  the invite. Yeah.
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  Of course, sorry I'm a little bit late.
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  I had a client that came late and ran late, so I'm a few
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  minutes behind. Oh, no problem.
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  But here we are. I don't need these.
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  All right? Who connected me with you, Jake?
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  Was it Jake Fenwick? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  All right, cool. And where are you based?
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  Hey, of course. I don't know how well you know
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  the UK. Ish Yeah, so many times.
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  So I'm right in the middle of Dartmoor, which is sort of
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  famous for the Hound of the Baskerville setting.
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  OK. Yeah, that's what you know, if
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  you've heard of it, it's probably there if you're not
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  from this country. Yeah.
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  So southwest, southwest Devon. Yeah, right.
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  Right in the Highlands, basically, yeah.
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  Have you been there your whole life?
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  In and around, yeah, sort of, yeah.
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  Grew up real close to where I am now, but always sort of around
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  the the Moors, Dartmoor and a little stint down in Cornwall
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  for university. But yeah, I'm really ventured
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  very far. I'm in Costa Rica right now,
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  Yeah, that's where it's where I spend most of my time.
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  Yeah, yeah, brilliant. So it's it's nice, it's a bit
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  humid, sometimes a bit hot, but that's the tropics.
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  I was wondering about that. Do you do you make bows in Costa
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  Rica? Have you got a sort of battle
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  with the humidity? A bit?
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  So not in making them yet. I my workshop.
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  I'm building a whole new facility, home and workshop and
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  it's being finished up literally this week.
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  And so my workshop will be handed to me, but I don't have
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  anything in there yet. So first I got to build my
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  workbench and get tools. Tools are not easy to find here.
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  Everything is either really scarce or extremely overpriced.
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  And so that's my intention over the next several weeks, even
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  months, is to get that all set up.
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  I've been collecting wood in the meantime so I can start carving,
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  but I haven't yet carved a bow here.
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  All the bows that I have here I brought down after carving them
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  in Canada. And the humidity has been a
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  major issue for a lot of them. So I had a lot of bow failures
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  from bows that I've had for years and years and have never
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  had an issue with. But yeah, so I've learned some
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  things, learned that I need to be storing them differently.
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  I actually shipped them down here in what do we call them?
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  They're like think they're, they're tubes.
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  They're long plastic tubes. We'll call them PVC pipes and
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  they have caps on the end of them.
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  And what I think I'm going to do, we have two distinct
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  seasons. One's a dry season where there's
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  no humidity at all, and then the rainy season the other six
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  months of the year where it's 100% humidity all the time.
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  So I think during the rainy season I probably need to keep
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  them inside of those plastic pipes and cap them on the end
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  and that way I can regulate the humidity that way and only pull
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  them out when I need to use them.
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  Otherwise, keep them in the SO I think that's what I'm going to
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  end up doing. It would be an uglier way to
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  store my bows, but that's OK, It's better than breaking them.
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  Certainly. Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea,
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  though. Yeah.
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  Pretty pretty bulletproof with a plastic tube.
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  Yeah, I think, I think it'll be, I think that would be pretty
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  good for humidity. Yeah, we're.
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  Sorry, go ahead. No.
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  I was just, I was just going to say we're, we're quite humid
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  here. So I, yeah, I do have to battle
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  damp and, and keeping things dry.
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  So I mean we can get into that and then like later.
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  On, well, that's. What I I said those are my
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  original thoughts. When it came down, most of the
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  bows I brought originally were out of Pacific U.
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  They were English longos and I know Pacific U is not from is
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  not the same as as European U. However, they all grow in very
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  damp climates and Pacific U from the Pacific Northwest which is
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  very damp. So I just assumed that it would
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  hold up really well. But I did lose 2-3, at least two
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  or three U bows in that first year and a Hickory bow and one
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  of them U bow that I had been shooting for been my main bow
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  for probably six years or so. It it folded, it didn't break.
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  It folded. I was like what it's like
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  actually taking one of those PVC pipes and if you could bend it
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  enough that it would get a crease.
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  The bow actually got a crease on the belly side.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my.
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  God, wow. When it's when it's unstrung it
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  looks totally fine, but if I string it, that fold appears and
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  it feels very very vulnerable. So as soon as that appeared I
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  unstrung it and I haven't used it since.
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  But that was a weird one. I was like, what the hell just
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  happened? Yeah, yeah.
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  I mean, but, but bamboo will do that.
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  I mean, I do a lot of back to bows and like use bamboo pretty
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  much 100% of the time. Now you do get the odd bit which
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  you can't use because it's it's got a crack in it or something.
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  Yeah, me, not me. Not to waste anything.
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  A lot of it ends up in the fireplace.
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  But you try and bend bamboo to break it, you know?
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  Yeah. It doesn't like.
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  I think when I start carving here, it's going to have to be
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  more in the dry season. I think it'll be fine anytime,
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  but I think in the rainy season it'll have to be in shorter time
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  shifts. I don't think I can put in a
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  full day working with it out in in the elements because I think
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  it would be picking up moisture. So my plan is to have like a hot
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  box and carve for maybe and this is all just like a, a
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  theoretical plan because I haven't tested it, but carve for
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  maybe one to three hours and then throw back in the hot box
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  for a bit and go surfing or what not.
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  And then come back and do another session of carving and
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  just see if it works that way. So.
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  I don't know we'll. We'll find out and I'll only be
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  working. I'll only be working with local
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  woods so hopefully it's more adapted to the humidity.
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  I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  I mean, what? I don't know, I don't know much
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  about Costa Rica, but have they got like an archery tradition?
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  Maybe, but not like not modern Costa Rica.
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  It would have been those that were here before the country was
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  here. So I, I think that would be
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  going back to I always, I always forget what would have been
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  here, the Mayans or Aztecs or. Yeah, it's my.
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  My extreme ignorance of, oh, millennia ago.
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  But yes, there would have been an arch, there would have been
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  an archery history, but not a anyone who's like a, a Costa
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  Rican. So from the past 300 years or
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  whatever, no, there isn't, not none that I've ever found.
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  But there's great Beau wood. There's, there's, there's lemon
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  wood here, which is a tremendous Beau wood.
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  So I've been told. And that's what I've been
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  harvesting. And then there's our provincial
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  tree where I am, it's called guanacaste, which is in the same
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  family as black locust. So I'm hoping that will hold up.
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  And then I'm curious about the fruit bearing trees such as
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  mango, avocado. Someone mentioned guava might be
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  a good choice. So I'm hoping to track down some
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  of those woods and just give them a try, see what happens.
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  But in theater, yeah. I've never no no experience
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  myself with any of that. But yeah, best of luck.
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  Thank you. So Jake, I reached out to all of
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  the bowyers that I've collaborated with for Project
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  Quaver and I asked them for recommendations.
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  Jake highly recommended you, and I know nothing about you.
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  I'm assuming that you do some bow craft, but I don't even know
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  that. Are you a Bowyer?
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  Yeah, yeah. So I run.
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  I run a company. I say a company.
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  It's me and my wife. Yeah, we're Black Arrow, long
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  bows, and we've been trading. It's 10 years this year
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  actually. Nice.
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  As A and then full time doing that for about 6 or seven years.
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  Wow, congratulations. Yeah, Thank you.
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  Yeah. And yeah, we, we do obviously do
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  English long bows and a few other designs, sort of pyramid
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  flat bows, sort of primitive, primitive bows like that.
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  But yeah, in the past five years we've really specialized in the
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  heavier drawaway bows. So that's probably half, maybe a
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  bit more than half of them what I make so.
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  Yeah. And is that dictated more by the
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  demand or is that just where your interest is?
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  Probably better both, really. Yeah.
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  Yeah. I mean, I feel like more people
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  are picking up heavier bows now than they were when I started,
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  especially with like, what the way social media has gone.
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  It's just it's not too hard to find it now.
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  OK, is that part of the reason why you think that is just the
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  social media crazing people? Is I, I was.
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  Sharing their videos and. Yeah, I think it probably pay
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  plays quite, quite, quite a part.
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  I mean, when I got into archery, it was, yeah, I'd jump on
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  YouTube and find anything I could, you know, whether that
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  was bow making or, or just people shooting.
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  And yeah, for me, the a lot of the interest was the historical
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  side. So I went, yeah, went down that
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  rabbit hole and there wasn't a huge amount back then when I
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  started. But I don't know if you know
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  Nick Birmingham. He goes by Big Bo Brum on
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  YouTube. I know the name and I think, I
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  think maybe Jake told me about him.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He started putting videos up
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  fairly prolifically, but it probably was like 15 or more
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  years ago now, probably like when YouTube was in its infancy.
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  So he's got he's got quite a good catalog of clips.
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  So him shooting in like historical locations and then he
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  said if you like bow making and Harry making bits, which were
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  pretty, pretty handy for people like myself.
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  Yeah, and do you know him? I, I, I bump into him maybe once
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  a year from lucky. I don't know if you know like we
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  have, we have a few like medieval festivals over here
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  that are. Annually seem to have a crazy
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  amount of those compared to other places.
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  Yeah, but like, it's a really niche sort of social thing.
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  So like, you pretty well meet everybody.
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  Quickly. Yeah, You know, if everybody's
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  got any neutralizes. So yeah, no, it's pretty, pretty
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  tight knit group of people. Yeah, Yeah.
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  So then what's the, and maybe you don't know this, but what do
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  you think is the rationale for people wanting these heavier
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  bows? I know there's a a few people
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  out there who are trying to increase their capacity to pull
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  heavier and heavier both and they're doing it as a whether
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  it's a personal challenge or a workout or whatever it is.
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  Do you think that's the case for the average person or do you
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  think it's something other than that?
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  I guess, I guess it's probably like probably a good few reasons
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  why like people pick it up. I mean, for me it was so if it's
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  sort of stepping in someone's shoes from 600 years ago.
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  So to go back. So my, my, my journey started
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  probably in the year 2000. And I say started in, you know,
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  inverted commas. So there was there was a TV show
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  in the UK called Meet the Ancestors, which ran for quite a
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  few seasons, really popular show.
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  I don't know if you've ever seen Time Team with Tony Robinson.
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  It's quite, quite well known. OK, right.
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  Anyway, well, hold on. Yeah.
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  So so they did one episode where it was based around Stonehenge
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  and they recreated one of the bows they found there.
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  There wasn't an English Longbow. It was it was a flat bow design,
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  but a fairly well known bow. Yeah, called Hilary Greenland
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  made it for the show and then they shot it.
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  And I was a completely fascinating.
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  And this was probably when I was about 15 or 16, I can't quite
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  remember exactly 1, but it always stuck in my head.
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  And I always thought one day I'll get to 2 arteries like some
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  way or another. But as you well know, like you
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  don't sort of bump into people doing artery.
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  It's sort of because we all, we all do it sort of well away from
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  public obviously for like health and safety reasons.
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  So, yeah, it was, it was, it was something I I thought I'll get
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  around to that one day. So yeah, I got, I got really
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  into the history and sorry, it's a long way of answering your
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  question on it. But yeah, I was just fascinated
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  with the with the military side of it.
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  And I just wanted to know what it was like to to shoot one of
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  these sort of bows that, you know, that they're quite
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  renowned throughout the world, really.
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  Like if you think of an English weapon, it's going to probably
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  be the the long Bay, right? Such, such is it sort of fame.
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  So yeah, for me it was just curiosity really, nothing to do
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  with male ego or anything like that.
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  I, I don't shoot super heavy bows.
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  I'm like, I'm, I'm fairly fairly low down the ladder
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  comparatively to some of the people I shoot with.
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  So yeah, I mean, just, I just enjoy it.
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  And they are, they are something to to learn to shoot.
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  They really, they do humble you pretty quickly, but it's quite,
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  it's quite addictive coming from a field archery background where
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  I was shooting like 40 pound, 50 LB bows or whatever and then
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  suddenly you're doubling that. Yeah.
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  Just the kinetic energy like that you're experiencing is kind
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  of, it's kind of a drug really. And yeah, I don't know how else
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  to explain it really. It's quite, it's kind of hard to
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  explain. You just got to do it, I
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  suppose. What's the heaviest bow you've
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  made? Heaviest I made, well, it was
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  100 and 8028 inches. So if you if you'd pulled it to
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  30 or or more, it was getting on for 200 lbs.
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  Yeah, and I'd be in no rush to do that again.
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  Who was pulling on it? Anyone shooting it?
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  It went to America, so it was ordered, yeah, by, yeah, by a
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  fairly young man. And yeah, I don't know, I never
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  heard from him, so I don't know how he got on with it.
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  But yeah, I mean, there's just there's probably like 2-2 people
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  that could shoot a bone like that that I know of.
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  But. So that is.
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  Would that have been entirely of you would?
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  Yeah, that was, that wasn't a piece of Italian you actually, I
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  probably made that six years ago now and it's yeah, definitely
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  like not just that the strongest in terms of draw weight that
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  I've made, but it was just a log, you know, to hold in your
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  hand. It was huge.
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  So yeah, do. You think there's a limit to how
• 17:05
  heavy the draw could be for an English Longbow?
• 17:10
  For yeah, for like a usable weight, yeah.
• 17:14
  Well I mean for usable yes, but like do you think that you could
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  build a like a 300 LB draw and actually have it with a proper
• 17:22
  tiller and. Not.
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  Actually doing it mechanically with pulleys.
• 17:27
  Yeah, so there there was a bow. Yeah.
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  He's no longer with us. You might have heard of really
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  well known in the UK and going back 2034 years, a chap called
• 17:41
  Ron Palmer. No, he made, he made Kevin
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  Costner's bow for Robin Hood many times, as far as I know.
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  So yeah, he was really prolific. I think he started making bows
• 17:55
  in the 50s. So yeah, it's he'd been around a
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  long time. He lives to a ripe old age.
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  But to answer your question he made.
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  He made. I don't know, I guess you'd call
• 18:08
  it more of a ballista, but it was an English Longbow with a
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  firing mechanism. And it was, I think it was over
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  300 lbs. And there was a video on
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  YouTube. I have to like, wow, try and
• 18:19
  find it. Yeah.
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  So you, I suppose, yes, to answer your question, you could.
• 18:25
  You can make over 300 but I mean.
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  It's. The woods just going to get
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  tired out like after a few arrows, you know?
• 18:34
  What? Do you think would fail first
• 18:36
  the belly or the SAP one? Well, I mean, all bows fail in
• 18:42
  tension, don't they really? I mean, when they go, it's in
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  tension, you know, whether or that's because of the
• 18:48
  compression, if there's any damage on the belly, I don't
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  know. I mean, every, every bit of
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  wood's different. I don't know.
• 18:59
  Yeah, and then you say? Yeah.
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  You said you work with bamboo a lot.
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  Do you laminate any of your long balls with a bamboo back?
• 19:08
  Yeah, yeah. So I'd say probably 1/3 of what
• 19:12
  we make ourselves both and 99% being you and yeah, the rest are
• 19:19
  laminated. So we do Bambi backs in woods
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  and Osage and we and we do calls on all those generally.
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  But yeah. Do you do bamboo back you?
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  I have done. Yeah.
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  And do you re do you remove the SAP word then to do that?
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  So yeah, I don't I would generally only back back a bit a
• 19:48
  bit of you if the SAP was bad or I've got some off cuts and I'm
• 19:54
  I'm it would probably be more like multiple layers of you
• 19:57
  heartwood and then backed. But yeah, just.
• 20:02
  It's a pretty good combination actually.
• 20:03
  I don't know if you've done it yourself.
• 20:06
  Bamboo back to you. Not with you, I haven't.
• 20:09
  No. Yeah, no, it's pretty.
• 20:11
  Do you do you think the just in your experience, do you find
• 20:16
  that the USAP would is superior or inferior to as a backing to
• 20:23
  Bamboo? I'd say that I would say they're
• 20:27
  pretty similar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:32
  I mean, there's no like perfect material out there.
• 20:35
  So bamboo is really good. And I don't, I don't know how
• 20:40
  you work the nodes on them, but that's that's always going to be
• 20:44
  a weak area where they where it joins up.
• 20:47
  We call them the nodes in the UK.
• 20:51
  So some people will like really flatten them down.
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  I take as little away as possible.
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  So it's basically scraping the the the bark off and just
• 21:02
  revealing the good bamboo and then sanding and trying to leave
• 21:05
  that alone. But yeah, you can get little
• 21:09
  lifts there over time. That's generally if it's going
• 21:15
  to lift anywhere, it's going to be there.
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  But from, yeah, from experience, like it's generally not, it's
• 21:21
  generally not the end of the boat.
• 21:24
  They normally don't progress very far at all after that.
• 21:27
  If you especially if you pour this super glue in there or or
• 21:32
  do you could just scrape it away sometimes.
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  But yeah, I mean you use upwards great.
• 21:37
  It's really good stuff. Obviously like the quality
• 21:41
  varies. They like anything.
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  So like bamboos of bamboos are far more consistent material and
• 21:49
  you and you SAP wood knife not so much.
• 21:53
  Yeah, and then you said you're covering with lemon wood.
• 21:55
  Where do you get your lemon wood?
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  So we have a couple of suppliers here this side of the pond and
• 22:04
  yeah, they they know what to look for.
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  So you can generally, I generally just order it and it
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  gets delivered. OK.
• 22:14
  Yeah, it's really, really good stuff.
• 22:17
  I did a deep dive when I, when I started looking for bow wood
• 22:20
  here and the Internet was telling me all sorts of weird
• 22:23
  things about lemon wood. And they were like three or four
• 22:26
  different trees that were called lemon wood.
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  And then I saw a video that showed that this lemon wood tree
• 22:31
  grows this large lemon like fruit.
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  And I was like, I've never seen that before.
• 22:35
  And I don't know, what if it was real?
• 22:37
  What if it wasn't the lemon wood?
• 22:40
  Do you? Are you aware of the Latin name
• 22:42
  for it that you're using? I I think I used to know but I
• 22:48
  can't find what I think. What I'm harvesting is
• 22:50
  Calicophyllum. Can the disam is that sound?
• 22:55
  Yeah, yeah, I think. Yeah, it seems to.
• 22:57
  Yeah, it was, it was terribly confusing and I got all excited.
• 23:00
  Like I found it, I got the tree and then I did some more
• 23:03
  research. It was like, no, that's not the
• 23:04
  tree, This is the lemon wood you want.
• 23:06
  I'm like, holy shit, this is really messed up.
• 23:08
  I think a lot of that's AI too. AI will tell you anything that
• 23:11
  you want to hear and then it'll do a 180 and tell you a bunch of
• 23:14
  gibberish for a while. And it's like, why do you?
• 23:17
  Yeah, it's it's crazy. So yeah, I haven't, I haven't
• 23:21
  worked with the lemon wood. How was it?
• 23:25
  Yeah, it's great. I mean, it's, it's really
• 23:27
  reliable. If it has any failings, it's
• 23:31
  it's because it's a little bit soft.
• 23:33
  It does follow the string over time.
• 23:36
  OK. But I mean, you can cut it any
• 23:38
  way you want and you don't really have to worry about the
• 23:40
  grain and just you'll make a bow out of it, you know, no problem.
• 23:46
  What style of or are you finding works well?
• 23:50
  It makes a good English long bow.
• 23:54
  I know other people make like pyramid style primitive bows out
• 23:59
  of it too. I don't see any bow design.
• 24:02
  It probably wouldn't work with really.
• 24:06
  But for me like especially with a deep section bow because there
• 24:12
  is so much compression when you have a design like that because
• 24:16
  it's right on the crown, it's getting the most sort of stress
• 24:19
  there. Does it does benefit from having
• 24:22
  a a call word in there? OK.
• 24:26
  Yeah. So are you, you're not.
• 24:28
  Are you doing any self bows with it or are you primarily
• 24:32
  laminating with it? I have, I have done self bows
• 24:35
  with it, but I, I generally, I generally back them.
• 24:41
  So yeah, because because I do this full time and I'm always,
• 24:46
  I'm always really busy. I've always, I've got like a
• 24:49
  four to six month waiting list. So I have been watching, yeah, I
• 24:54
  have been watching like some of your other episodes.
• 24:56
  And I know like quite a few of the guys you've spoken to,
• 25:00
  they've been quite sort of able to dip in and sort of explore
• 25:05
  some interesting words and whatnot and designs.
• 25:08
  And I just don't get the opportunity basically to do a
• 25:11
  lot of that. I do a few, I do a few
• 25:14
  experiments like every year, but I kind of just have them of your
• 25:18
  own success. Yeah, I'm kind of.
• 25:20
  Like I'm in a bit of a narrow lane generally week to week with
• 25:24
  what I what I can explore. Does that feel?
• 25:29
  Tedious to you at times. It's.
• 25:33
  Definitely a job and, and yeah. And I have to do like, I
• 25:41
  sometimes have to remind myself what I am doing and what I could
• 25:46
  be doing. And because, you know, sometimes
• 25:50
  the job feels like a job and I could be, yeah, I could be, I
• 25:55
  could be in a far worse profession.
• 25:56
  So yeah, I do. I do have to remind myself like
• 26:00
  I've got a lot, I've got a lot of people that I know that would
• 26:02
  love to do this as a profession, but it's it's very hard to get
• 26:09
  it to work as a reliable sort of source of income as in.
• 26:15
  I can't have. Things come back and I do I do
• 26:18
  get a few warranty sort of issues like any.
• 26:21
  Buryer. Would.
• 26:23
  You know every. Year I'll get a few back.
• 26:26
  It just it just happens. It's just the sort of the nature
• 26:28
  of the beast. But I had to keep that to a
• 26:31
  minimum otherwise because I I rent, I rent a workspace.
• 26:36
  I've got overheads to to keep. On top of.
• 26:39
  And I've got 3 kids and a wife to feed.
• 26:42
  So yeah, I'm pretty, pretty busy.
• 26:46
  It's it's definitely like it's a weird one by making because if I
• 26:52
  was making furniture. You know, I'd I'd make.
• 26:55
  A table, whatever, and it would go out and I would probably
• 26:58
  never hear that ever again from the customer that there was a
• 27:03
  problem with it, whereas but you probably wouldn't hear.
• 27:07
  Any positive things about it either, other than yeah, yeah,
• 27:09
  it's a table. Thank you.
• 27:12
  Yeah, basically. Yeah, but.
• 27:16
  Yeah, with this like. I don't know how how bow makers
• 27:19
  of the past like would have. Sort of.
• 27:23
  Danced around the the issue of like, sometimes bows come back
• 27:26
  and like, how would they? Because we we have to warranty
• 27:28
  things, you know? As you rightly do.
• 27:31
  Because if you're spending hundreds or sometimes $1000 or
• 27:35
  pounds, you know. There is the bows.
• 27:39
  Got a last SO yeah. It's I think.
• 27:42
  It's quite, it can be quite a tricky industry, for lack of a
• 27:47
  better word, to, to work. So it's, it's definitely kicked
• 27:52
  my backside a few times. So yeah, basically anybody out
• 27:55
  there thinking like this would be a walk in the park, cushy job
• 27:59
  is like, no, it's not yeah. You've got to work hard and
• 28:04
  you've got to, you've got to really know your bows and you.
• 28:07
  You've got to use. The best material you can get.
• 28:10
  And you, you have to. You have to.
• 28:12
  Make them. Like just right, especially with
• 28:15
  heavy bows because they're just so unforgiving, you know, any
• 28:18
  any sort of kink in your design and it's going to let you know
• 28:23
  you'll get away with things with like about half the weight.
• 28:27
  But yeah, I mean, sorry, I'm, I'm really Spearing at you now,
• 28:33
  but I'll. Narrow.
• 28:35
  It down to when was when was the most and I'll just use the word
• 28:40
  magical. When was the most magical point
• 28:43
  in your bow making existence? Not a not necessarily during the
• 28:47
  career portion, but when did you?
• 28:50
  Resonate with it most. Strongly and.
• 28:54
  And really like. Find that magic in it.
• 29:00
  Oh, I mean. Well, let me ask you first.
• 29:06
  I'd like to to hear your answer and then they'll give me a
• 29:09
  minute to think too, yeah. Because.
• 29:11
  I've got quite a few. Potential.
• 29:14
  Answers there. I'm just swimming.
• 29:17
  And swirling in the magic of it all the time because it's still
• 29:19
  relatively new to me from the perspective of I've made, let's
• 29:24
  say, 40 bows, maybe 50. Not all of those have been
• 29:28
  successful by any means either. And so although I've, I've kind
• 29:33
  of spend, maybe it's been close to a decade now, they're like, I
• 29:38
  haven't made a bow since I left Project Quiver ended in
• 29:42
  November. I made a bow with Nacho Marco.
• 29:44
  That was the last bow that I made and, and that was in Spain
• 29:46
  in late October. And that's partially because
• 29:50
  I've been in Costa Rica the whole time and I haven't had my
• 29:52
  workshop set up here. So I just don't have, and I also
• 29:56
  don't have any sort of of reliance on it.
• 30:00
  It's a pure passion for me. And then based on the
• 30:04
  experiences that I've been able to create, I've been able to not
• 30:07
  only talk with people like you and learn from them, but I've
• 30:10
  also been able to travel the world and, and study and learn
• 30:12
  from different bowyers. So it's always just, it's never
• 30:16
  lost its fascination for me. Every time I get to carve a bow,
• 30:19
  there's this excitement and a magic to it, but it's not a job
• 30:24
  and it's something that I know there's there's not that many
• 30:29
  full time bow years. I think for in our book Quiver,
• 30:32
  there are maybe 5 or 14 or full time bow years.
• 30:36
  I could count exactly. But let's call it 5 or 6 out of
• 30:39
  14. And these are all amazing,
• 30:41
  incredible bow years, some of the best in the world.
• 30:44
  And yet only 5 or 6 of them are actually doing it as a full time
• 30:48
  job. Most of the others all have all
• 30:50
  have work. And some of those people who are
• 30:52
  doing it full time, I know have experienced burnout.
• 30:54
  They've experienced the frustration of, let's say doing
• 30:58
  custom orders and never getting to meet the customer and
• 31:01
  basically feeling like, OK, this is an assembly line because
• 31:05
  they're doing custom orders of the same style of both over and
• 31:07
  over and over. I know some like Corey Hawk from
• 31:11
  Organic Archery, I know he shifted from custom bows more
• 31:15
  into teaching, so he started a bow carving school to mix things
• 31:20
  up. Simon Kell in Switzerland, he,
• 31:24
  although he's carving bows for customers, he always mixes those
• 31:29
  with his own bows for his own passion project.
• 31:31
  So he'll do 3 or 4 for customers, but then he goes back
• 31:34
  and he does a few bows for himself.
• 31:36
  So I know that there's, there's different strategies people have
• 31:39
  used. So for me, I'm just in the
• 31:40
  lucky, lucky position of I do it when I want to do it.
• 31:44
  And some sometimes I take months and months and months and I
• 31:48
  don't do anything. And then I'll go back in and
• 31:50
  I'll carve 3 or 4 bows over the course of a few weeks.
• 31:53
  So for me, the magic is still very much present, but I know in
• 31:57
  interviewing so many bowyers and writing about bowyers that I
• 32:00
  know for many who have made it a career, there are hard moments
• 32:05
  and I So I guess I'm wondering, I guess, and maybe I could make
• 32:09
  the question a little bit easier for you.
• 32:11
  Has any of them? I'm presuming you had some magic
• 32:15
  or? Felt magic.
• 32:15
  For it, has any of that faded since you've turned this into a
• 32:18
  career versus a? A hobby, probably.
• 32:23
  As it began, no, I, I. Mean I'm yeah.
• 32:25
  I mean, I didn't mean to like, put it down for anything.
• 32:28
  Enough. No, just not at all.
• 32:30
  Yeah, well. Yeah.
• 32:34
  No, Oh God. I mean, actually, to be fair,
• 32:36
  there's been some really great movements and there continues to
• 32:39
  be like. There's always.
• 32:43
  There's always like the the start of the journey, it's
• 32:46
  always brilliant and I do, I do think back in my first few
• 32:49
  years. With I.
• 32:51
  Raised tinted spectacles sometimes can we just.
• 32:55
  Can we talk about those few years?
• 32:57
  Because I don't even know you're a Genesis.
• 33:00
  So. Yeah.
• 33:01
  Oh, God. So I, yeah, I we were living in
• 33:06
  this house next to the. Quite large.
• 33:10
  Swathe of woodland, actually. So I went out there one day and
• 33:15
  I picked up a bit of wood. I don't know, I still don't know
• 33:18
  today what it was. It was some, some sort of white,
• 33:23
  but it wasn't like any of the usual suspects.
• 33:25
  It was something else. And yeah, I, I brought it in to
• 33:29
  dry and obviously I got impatient and two weeks later
• 33:32
  I'd like. I'd finished.
• 33:35
  My first bow out of it. And.
• 33:39
  It was terrible. It was, you know, really bad, so
• 33:44
  many problems with it. But I got the bug, you know, and
• 33:49
  I thought, I want to do that again and I want to make it
• 33:51
  better and, and the next bow was better.
• 33:54
  But then I and then I was like, well, I want to make another one
• 33:58
  and I want to make it better. So where did the?
• 34:00
  Where did the initial idea come from?
• 34:02
  You didn't just go out and pick up a piece of wood and go, oh,
• 34:04
  this would make a good bow. Maybe I'll cover a bow.
• 34:06
  Or maybe you did. It's, it's such a disappointing.
• 34:10
  Story because people ask me this all the time and I'm like make
• 34:14
  some. Yeah.
• 34:16
  What if, if, let's say we were me and my wife and we weren't
• 34:21
  married at the time, we were actually house sharing with some
• 34:24
  friends. And it was just this huge house
• 34:27
  that like, no, the guy couldn't rent because it was too big, too
• 34:31
  expensive. But like me and some friends, we
• 34:34
  were like, well, it was so big. If you had a room, you wouldn't,
• 34:38
  you could not see anybody for the rest of the day because it's
• 34:40
  like there was 22 front rooms and like a massive kitchen.
• 34:44
  And it was like, we happily stay out of each other's hair if
• 34:47
  things get a bit too close. Anyway, so one of the guys he,
• 34:55
  he got a concussion. And.
• 34:59
  So he couldn't. He couldn't.
• 35:01
  Stand to. Like look at a screen for like
• 35:03
  about 3 weeks. I We.
• 35:07
  Were just like trying to keep ourselves.
• 35:10
  Busy and he was getting into he's like I'm not going to do
• 35:14
  some woodwork in the we had like a cellar in this quite quite a
• 35:20
  sizable little space which ended up being my workshop actually my
• 35:25
  first workshop which was which is all right actually and then
• 35:32
  something something came on the tally about archery and I just I
• 35:36
  was like archery yeah I I want to do that and I thought I just
• 35:41
  started like I went down a rabbit hole on Google about
• 35:45
  English long bows and then I was just like I'll make one because
• 35:48
  because because you can't you know you do that thing that you
• 35:51
  want to do and I'll make a bow and we'll see how how we.
• 35:55
  Fare in the. End and yeah, so that's that's
• 35:58
  basically where it started really.
• 36:00
  It's not much of a story, but. That's yeah, that's cool.
• 36:03
  When How old were you? God, I would have.
• 36:07
  I think I was 30, so yeah, I'm 40 this year.
• 36:11
  So yeah, I was, you know, I wasn't super young or anything,
• 36:15
  but. So your first son.
• 36:18
  Was abysmal and the second one was better.
• 36:21
  Do you know what kind of word your second one was?
• 36:26
  I think it was the. Same, same species as the first
• 36:29
  one. And it will remain elusive, I
• 36:32
  think, until I'm in the grave. But yeah, quickly after that, I,
• 36:37
  I was starting to laminate bows. So I got some lemon words and
• 36:40
  some Purple Heart and some Hickory.
• 36:45
  And about the how did you learn? I I think I'd probably, I
• 36:51
  probably found some some videos on YouTube, probably Richard
• 36:55
  Head if you know. Richard heard of him?
• 36:58
  Yeah. Yeah, it's super.
• 36:59
  Prolific on on YouTube and he basically teaches everything
• 37:02
  about putting a bow together on there.
• 37:06
  And I did I got some books. So I got like the bowyers Bible,
• 37:11
  but that was more for like self bows and whatnot.
• 37:14
  And I got I got another one called teaching the bow to bend.
• 37:18
  But none of the I mean none of these had anything about
• 37:20
  laminating. That was all them all online
• 37:22
  basically. And like, yeah, my first
• 37:25
  laminate had a lot of problems, as you can well imagine.
• 37:31
  But yeah, I mean I. Was starting.
• 37:34
  To get there and probably like 5 or 6 in I was start I was
• 37:38
  starting to get it and probably about that time a good friend of
• 37:44
  mine asked me to make him a boat so that.
• 37:47
  Was like the first. One I made for somebody else.
• 37:51
  I think that was for his 50th birthday, actually.
• 37:53
  Yeah. So it was, yeah, I made that.
• 37:58
  And I think a few months later I was starting to sell things on
• 38:03
  Etsy. So I got like.
• 38:06
  An Etsy shop and I was selling on that you mind that's.
• 38:10
  That's quite quick. Yeah, well, I, I was.
• 38:13
  I was making these things and they were hanging around and I
• 38:15
  was like, I'm not going to shoot all these.
• 38:17
  Yeah, they, I mean, I was selling them for like nothing,
• 38:21
  you know, there was no like pretense of, of making any money
• 38:25
  in that regard. Yeah, sorry.
• 38:30
  And just to go back a bit, just a.
• 38:32
  Little a little bit. After the laminates were
• 38:34
  starting to be sort of produced, I got hold of some U from from
• 38:40
  the next county up. I joined up there and picked up
• 38:42
  about 8 staves of English U and I brought that back.
• 38:48
  Yeah, I made my first U bow out of that and that was that was
• 38:51
  brilliant. Yeah, so actually.
• 38:55
  To answer your question, yeah, making my first U bow was pretty
• 38:59
  magical. And that that came out about 50.
• 39:04
  50 lbs at 28. I've still got some photos of it
• 39:07
  somewhere, but the the bow's long gone.
• 39:09
  I can't remember what happened to it, I think it got sold or
• 39:11
  something but. Yeah, I mean.
• 39:15
  After that, I've, yeah, I mean, it's been such a, a giving
• 39:20
  Korea. So I've I've been to places and
• 39:24
  met people that I just would never have met or places I
• 39:28
  wouldn't have experienced so. I've.
• 39:32
  Driven to Italy twice to to get wood Italian you and bring it
• 39:38
  back so yeah that I mean that took us through France and
• 39:44
  Germany Austria all. The way to.
• 39:47
  Northern Italy. Did you have a source there?
• 39:50
  Specifically there you were going to, yeah.
• 39:52
  Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you've heard of
• 39:54
  Celestino Paletti. He's now retired.
• 39:59
  I think Jake, man, is this the guy that Jake would have said is
• 40:02
  was the only guy who had import license or export license for
• 40:06
  you? OK, Yeah, I, I.
• 40:07
  Don't. Know anybody else in Italy that
• 40:09
  was or is? Selling any?
• 40:11
  Anything. Anything like?
• 40:14
  That so yeah. And yeah, I did watch the
• 40:16
  episode with you and Jake. It did make me smile.
• 40:19
  He was like, he drives a hot dog.
• 40:20
  And I was like, I know. Yeah, he's.
• 40:23
  But yeah. Is this?
• 40:25
  Guy, is he a Bowyer as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:29
  Yeah, so he, he's made, you know, thousands of bows,
• 40:35
  thousands. And he had.
• 40:37
  A couple of. Guys working for him as well and
• 40:39
  they were doing like. Fiberglass.
• 40:41
  Would, you know, sort of more modern designs?
• 40:45
  Yeah, Cialestino would. He had his own workshop within.
• 40:50
  His building that. He would just make big U bows in
• 40:53
  basically and he yeah. He just made them.
• 40:57
  As stock, I think, I think he did.
• 40:58
  He did do like custom orders, but yeah.
• 41:01
  He just, he just, you know. Pumped them out and yeah,
• 41:04
  they've gone all over the world. So I'm always bump into someone
• 41:07
  with a Palletti bow at some point, you know, in the year.
• 41:13
  He's a lovely man and he did make the journey worth it
• 41:17
  because he because he was just retiring.
• 41:20
  He's like, I've got all this word, you know, fill up your van
• 41:23
  and you know, you can have it and wow, you know, I go got it
• 41:25
  for like peanuts what it was worth.
• 41:29
  It was worth taking a. Week off to go and pick it up
• 41:32
  and rent a rent a van. And yeah, I mean, just one
• 41:36
  experience to just drive through Europe as well.
• 41:40
  Yeah. I've I've been, I've been to
• 41:43
  places in the UK I wouldn't have been to and.
• 41:47
  I've met I think. When you when you're asking
• 41:50
  about your boat making sort of moments, it's more the social
• 41:54
  side for me has been more impactful.
• 41:57
  So like the heavy boat interesting because it's.
• 42:01
  It's such a solitary pursuit. It is, yeah.
• 42:07
  Yeah, it's great. I.
• 42:09
  I met I met Joe, Joe Gibbs and he's we got talking and he
• 42:17
  invited me to one of his shoots. So I got to meet all of his
• 42:20
  friends and then nice like. You meet.
• 42:23
  And like everybody seems to make something so, you know, just
• 42:27
  just meeting them and like seeing what, what's you know,
• 42:30
  what's going on, what, what people are using.
• 42:34
  Yeah. Just.
• 42:35
  Bring. Joe and I've been trying to get
• 42:37
  a date on the calendar to do a podcast but it hasn't worked yet
• 42:40
  but hopefully I'll get. This done with.
• 42:43
  Them OK, I thought. You'd already spoke to, but
• 42:47
  that's all right. Yeah.
• 42:48
  No, I haven't. Yeah, we've we've emailed or
• 42:51
  messaged or whatever, but no, I haven't haven't got a hard date
• 42:54
  yet. I mean when it.
• 42:56
  When it comes to medieval bows, like you're in for a treat there
• 43:00
  because he is. In my opinion, he is.
• 43:04
  He's the bee's knees when it comes to that kind of, well, I
• 43:08
  mean, is heavy flat bows and the glass bows he's producing are
• 43:12
  really something as well, but. You're not going to find a.
• 43:16
  Better sort of war. Bow.
• 43:19
  Bow. Yeah, out of there.
• 43:21
  He's crazy, crazy good. So yeah.
• 43:27
  Yeah, well, that just made me think of another question, which
• 43:30
  I'll jump to before I forget. So we talked about making heavy
• 43:33
  war bows from Pacific U. Do you think any do you think
• 43:37
  flat bows could be made as heavy as long bows or you think
• 43:41
  there's a a lower ceiling or threshold?
• 43:45
  I I don't personally have the experience myself to probably
• 43:51
  give you a. An answer that's.
• 43:54
  Coming from any lived sort of experience, but I know people, I
• 43:57
  know people that do make. Heavy, you know. £100 plus Yeah,
• 44:03
  like ash flat bows or. Wherever they go.
• 44:07
  Yeah, I did. They seem to work from the ones
• 44:09
  I've seen. I've got a really nice ossage
• 44:12
  stave I'm going to make a heavy flat bow out of when I get a
• 44:17
  chance, and I generally don't back my Osage flat bows so it
• 44:23
  will be like a true sort of self boat, so we'll see if it holds
• 44:27
  together. Yeah, did you, did you have, did
• 44:33
  you have a career before you went full time in making bows?
• 44:37
  Yeah, yeah, I I was in and out of the construction trade for oh
• 44:46
  God, 10 years probably. And alongside that sort of a
• 44:51
  semi professional musician. Yeah, so.
• 44:58
  I've always been fairly creative and all my sort of interests and
• 45:04
  hobbies are so I. I'd still.
• 45:07
  I do, I still play music a lot. Particular instruments, yeah,
• 45:14
  yeah. Guitar mostly, and a few others.
• 45:17
  I I played badly, but mostly guitar, especially what I did at
• 45:22
  university. Did three years of jazz, jazz
• 45:27
  guitar and in Cornwall which is a very strange place to go and
• 45:32
  learn jazz. That's it.
• 45:35
  Yeah, you create. Music.
• 45:36
  Then to create or play or yeah. Yeah.
• 45:41
  I mean, it kind of all, it did all come to a bit of a stop when
• 45:46
  COVID hit because there was nowhere to play for like 2
• 45:53
  years. So like other things took over.
• 45:57
  We had our first child and that's that's actually when the
• 46:01
  business did that. So I was.
• 46:03
  Pretty busy. Pretty busy for quite a while
• 46:08
  and I have found it hard to get back into like any sort of
• 46:14
  solid. Rhythm with my.
• 46:16
  Music, although recently that's that's changing and there are,
• 46:20
  there are things afoot. So yeah, which is kind, I guess
• 46:26
  it's kind of why. Bow making is quite.
• 46:29
  Appealing because it's it's it's a kind of beautiful marriage
• 46:32
  between engineering and and art, for lack of a better word, sort
• 46:37
  of yeah. So I, I know like the, the bows
• 46:43
  that Jamie McDonald makes are just, you know, absolutely
• 46:49
  stunning pieces of pieces of art.
• 46:51
  Really. Yeah.
• 46:52
  They're. Gorgeous.
• 46:53
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 46:54
  Yeah, absolutely. And his, his partner, is it
• 46:58
  Jenna? She, she adds to it.
• 47:00
  And yeah, she does all the pyrography on them.
• 47:03
  And I wish I I. Wish I had the time to to
• 47:06
  indulge myself and sort of do something like that.
• 47:10
  OK, So what is? What is your typical customer
• 47:14
  looking for then? Oh.
• 47:18
  My God, that that has changed. Over the years.
• 47:21
  Like quite quite a lot. So when?
• 47:24
  When we. Started like 10 years ago, it
• 47:27
  was it was mostly orders going to America and they were
• 47:30
  generally. You know S bow.
• 47:34
  Or a laminate of about, you know, 30 to 5060 lbs.
• 47:40
  All English Longbow shape. Yeah, yeah.
• 47:43
  That's kind of all I offered to start with, apart from I did
• 47:48
  have a few people ask me to make like Legacies.
• 47:50
  Legless is both from Lord of the Rings a few times and I was just
• 47:56
  like, I wouldn't even know where to begin with that.
• 48:00
  That's a prop. But yeah, I think some people do
• 48:03
  like make some sort of amalgamation of that, sort of.
• 48:07
  That item. But yeah, so I was just, I was
• 48:12
  really trying to get my English Longbow like as good as I could
• 48:17
  before I moved on to other things, if that makes sense.
• 48:22
  So yeah, when I was like feeling a bit more adventurous and I had
• 48:28
  the burgers Bible. So I was just looking at the
• 48:30
  Ossage flat bow in there, which we offer.
• 48:35
  So we do offer that on our website and it's it's basically
• 48:39
  that bow from that book. So it's just like a simple.
• 48:43
  Pyramid designed with a with a stiff handle fairly wide.
• 48:47
  But again, it always depends on the on a bit of what you're
• 48:51
  working with and and what the customer wants.
• 48:56
  Yeah. We we get some.
• 48:57
  Interesting requests sometimes so.
• 49:00
  I've done like. People.
• 49:02
  Have asked for like. The the Knox to be like dragon
• 49:05
  heads or like. Bird heads.
• 49:07
  Or something and I have done that but.
• 49:11
  It's so. Time consuming to do something
• 49:14
  like that. That and what I would have to
• 49:17
  charge to make that worth my while.
• 49:19
  I just like. I charge a bit more.
• 49:22
  For it if people ask, but I just I tend to not always agree to do
• 49:28
  it, if that makes sense. I'm always, I'm always just
• 49:33
  pushed for time because because I have like, tell me about that.
• 49:38
  Well, I've got 3. Kids, three kids under 5 and a
• 49:41
  wife to keep happy and I'm always, always during the week
• 49:47
  trying to be at the workbench, but there's.
• 49:50
  Always. Like, well, you have to.
• 49:51
  I've got to pack up those. Yeah.
• 49:53
  And I've got and then I've got to go to the next town to drop
• 49:56
  them off to be picked up and then I need to buy material.
• 50:01
  So I'm out, I'm out of whatever glue.
• 50:05
  So I've got to then travel. And get glue or.
• 50:08
  There's like I'm low on wood or, you know, just some, there's
• 50:11
  always something to keep me away from the workbench, which is
• 50:14
  where I want to be because that's, that's where I'm
• 50:16
  actually getting what I need to be getting done.
• 50:23
  So, yeah, sorry, what was the question again?
• 50:26
  I'm I just, I'm going off. I don't know where we're all in.
• 50:29
  On it, where, where do you, it's OK where do most of your
• 50:33
  customers come from as Yeah, are they?
• 50:36
  Yeah, so. British.
• 50:38
  They. Are they are?
• 50:39
  Now nowadays, it took years to to get like a steady flow of
• 50:45
  British customers. I think probably just because I
• 50:49
  was new and no one had heard of me.
• 50:51
  And you're going to go. To you're going to go to the guy
• 50:54
  you've heard of and it's established, aren't you?
• 50:56
  Rather than. Probably you know.
• 50:59
  You probably would rather than the new guy on the block.
• 51:04
  And and. Because you're kind of spoiled
• 51:07
  for choice here as well. Because it.
• 51:10
  Angus Longbow Well, in this, you know, dime a dozen people making
• 51:14
  them. But I mean the wild guess.
• 51:18
  How many buyers do you think are in England?
• 51:22
  God, I don't know. There's a lot more.
• 51:25
  Now than there was 10 years ago, I know that but but.
• 51:30
  Equally. There's quite a few people that
• 51:32
  have retired or they passed on. But yeah.
• 51:39
  I mean a lot, yes. There's a lot, yeah.
• 51:44
  And are you shipping? Are you shipping bows worldwide?
• 51:49
  Yeah, we ship all. Over the place, yeah, yeah, OK.
• 51:53
  But I, I think, I think like each Bowyer kind of has their
• 51:59
  own thing they do and people will go to them for that thing
• 52:03
  that they're after. What's.
• 52:05
  That thing for you? Well, yeah, I.
• 52:08
  Don't know I'm a spark already. Yeah, well I mean there are many
• 52:14
  guys making heavy bows and heavy self you bows.
• 52:21
  There's me, Joe. Ian Sturgis, Lee Anchors.
• 52:28
  I think that's probably the only four that come to mind.
• 52:33
  In the. UK.
• 52:34
  Yeah, and. I.
• 52:35
  Do Ioffer? I do like.
• 52:39
  An English Longbow but it's like backed Osage and I don't know
• 52:43
  anybody else that does a backed Osage like laminated bow
• 52:48
  basically. And I do them heavy.
• 52:51
  As well and they'll wicked bows actually so they're I don't know
• 52:56
  why more people Osage no no, they're.
• 52:59
  So I do. So Osage is a bloody brilliant
• 53:04
  bow wood, as you probably well know.
• 53:06
  I'm sure you've you've probably made a few yourself.
• 53:10
  They make a really good. Yeah, OK, Yeah, it's great
• 53:13
  stuff. It makes a really good flat bow.
• 53:17
  English style bows, they can kick really badly if you're not
• 53:23
  careful with your design. So I yes, what are you going to
• 53:30
  do to to help that you, well, you're going to lighten it as
• 53:33
  much as you can. You know I.
• 53:36
  First of all, you I start with a bit of bamboo on the back
• 53:39
  because it's super light and as it makes a suite of sort of
• 53:44
  shooting bow and then I do put a core wood in.
• 53:49
  So it's not. It's not a.
• 53:50
  Twin laminate. It's a triple.
• 53:52
  And I. Will I'll be, yeah, I'll pick
• 53:58
  wood for the core. That's well.
• 54:00
  Light. As light as I can get it for
• 54:02
  what species it is. And I grade all this stuff by
• 54:07
  the way. And this is all.
• 54:09
  This is all extra. Work.
• 54:13
  So yeah, you want to lighten it, but it's got to be, it's got to
• 54:15
  be like of an equal strength to the ossage really, because
• 54:20
  otherwise you just you end up getting a bow that wants to
• 54:23
  twist and all sorts of problems can sort of happen.
• 54:28
  So yeah. And then the way you tailor them
• 54:30
  as well and you want to keep the tips light, as light as you can.
• 54:37
  So yeah, some of the. Cores that you're using.
• 54:41
  Probably most most things probably you've heard of so like
• 54:45
  Purple Heart Paduke, I don't know if you've heard of that.
• 54:49
  It's like a red. That's that's a that's.
• 54:52
  A good one. Wang Gay.
• 54:57
  Which is. Super dense, super hard.
• 55:00
  It's. Really dense, yeah.
• 55:01
  Yeah. Really good call with though,
• 55:05
  funnily enough. And they're probably like the
• 55:08
  main. Three I use.
• 55:12
  Yeah. I'd throw a few odd balls in
• 55:15
  there sometimes, like so Pele. It's quite nice.
• 55:21
  Amazique, if you've heard of that.
• 55:24
  No. Neither.
• 55:25
  The last year. No.
• 55:27
  Yeah. What I do?
• 55:30
  Like I do, I know I've been talking about.
• 55:33
  Keeping in in my. In my lane, but I do experiment
• 55:36
  and I will try woods out with varying degrees of success.
• 55:44
  And I think that's, I think that's the way to do it really,
• 55:47
  actually. And it certainly.
• 55:49
  Keeps it more interesting even even when it fails and yeah, and
• 55:53
  you're sort of swearing that you've you've you've lost two
• 55:56
  days if you're working on this boat, hasn't even survived to
• 56:00
  the full tiller and it's like crizzled but you.
• 56:03
  Never know if you. Don't try and I've I've stumbled
• 56:06
  across things doing that that I still do now and you know, you
• 56:11
  don't see other bogus doing. Like wood combinations?
• 56:15
  And whatnot. But yeah, I mean, I know I've
• 56:19
  I've stumbled across things that really don't work as well like E
• 56:24
  pay. Pretty.
• 56:27
  Pretty superfluous wood to get hold of and it makes a good bow,
• 56:35
  but you'll be careful how and where you use it.
• 56:37
  So I've made it like lemon wood heavy lemon wood belly bamboo
• 56:45
  backed war bows with it in the core and it's just horrible like
• 56:51
  it. Just.
• 56:51
  It's because it's heavy. And and the.
• 56:56
  Core is like it doesn't. It doesn't have the same effect
• 57:00
  in the. Core as it.
• 57:01
  Would in the bellies, if it was in the belly, you would be using
• 57:04
  less of it because it holds more draw weight for last material.
• 57:08
  So you just end up with this extra weight and it's it, you
• 57:11
  know, just shoots slow and it's really shocking and I.
• 57:17
  Made one for my mate. Dave.
• 57:18
  So Dave, if you're watching, I'm sorry, but you got that boat.
• 57:22
  You got that boat for free as as a gift.
• 57:25
  I don't feel too bad. Yeah, yeah.
• 57:29
  Yeah, what is your? Archery experience or background
• 57:32
  and how? How are you testing the?
• 57:36
  Performance of your bows is that.
• 57:39
  Through your archery. Experience or is that through
• 57:41
  from feedback from customers or other people?
• 57:45
  I mean all of. That, yeah.
• 57:49
  Did you get into archery? Before you started carving bows,
• 57:52
  no. No, weirdly OK, it was both
• 57:55
  making. It's pretty normal.
• 57:57
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's.
• 57:58
  Surprisingly. Pretty normal, yeah, yeah.
• 58:02
  Yeah, yeah. Which is, which is kind of
• 58:08
  weird, isn't it? No, it's.
• 58:10
  It's not. It's it's very normal among
• 58:12
  Bowers and some Bowers don't shoot anymore.
• 58:15
  They only shoot when they have a bow to test out and that's it.
• 58:18
  They don't, they don't do archery at all.
• 58:20
  It's out of that. So you got into archery after
• 58:22
  you started making bows and then how did you become, I guess,
• 58:28
  aware enough or skilled enough in archery to know what a good
• 58:31
  bow feels like to shoot? Because of course, if you're
• 58:35
  living in your own echo chamber and only shooting your own bows,
• 58:37
  then how do you ever know if that's if that's how a bow
• 58:39
  shoots? And an example, I've made most
• 58:43
  of my own bows. And this past summer I was for
• 58:47
  Project Quipper. I was with Pete Woodland, a pair
• 58:49
  of heritage bows and Vancouver Island in Canada, and I was
• 58:53
  shooting some of his bows. And I was just like blown away
• 58:56
  by how silent they are. And it just like so smooth.
• 59:00
  And in fact, all the Bowers that I worked with and the bows are
• 59:03
  far superior to anything I had made prior to that.
• 59:05
  But I wouldn't have known that because my bow still shot and my
• 59:09
  bows, I was still like really felt good about creating these
• 59:13
  bows and shooting them. But then I would compare them to
• 59:16
  some of the performance of some of these other bows.
• 59:17
  I was like, oh shit, I've got, I've got a ways to go.
• 59:22
  I. Mean it's.
• 59:22
  It's tricky, isn't it? I don't I.
• 59:26
  Don't crew any things. So I just so.
• 59:31
  I just test you them, you know, and I've I've got my own idea of
• 59:35
  what I think is good, you know, whether.
• 59:37
  That's. Right or wrong, but I mean in in
• 59:40
  terms of like. That I think.
• 59:43
  I think it's super important to be open to learning new things
• 59:51
  and not think that you're the bee's knees or the bee or your
• 59:55
  bows are like the be all and end all.
• 1:00:00
  I like, you know, every, every time I go out shooting with
• 1:00:04
  friends, you know? I'm always looking at.
• 1:00:08
  What they're shooting and I'm, I'm like, I'm interested and if
• 1:00:14
  I get and if they offer me like a chance to shoot it and you
• 1:00:17
  know, and I and I'm impressed, then I'm going to, I'm going to
• 1:00:22
  look at that though a bit, a bit with a bit more of a sort of an
• 1:00:26
  eye to as what's going on there. And I've.
• 1:00:31
  Learned. I've learned a lot that way
• 1:00:35
  also. Like.
• 1:00:37
  I know you're having Joe on at some point, which will be great
• 1:00:42
  because he's super open and we we have.
• 1:00:46
  Developed. Like quite, quite a lovely
• 1:00:48
  friendship actually over the years.
• 1:00:50
  And we, we, but we generally talk like every week, like
• 1:00:55
  multiple times, generally like a voice note or something.
• 1:00:59
  But I've learned so much from Joe in, I don't know, 5 or 6
• 1:01:03
  years now maybe since I met him. And he doesn't tell me
• 1:01:08
  everything. You know, it's not a completely
• 1:01:10
  open book. And that's fair because he's
• 1:01:13
  got, he's got 15 years on me or like, so he's 25 years of making
• 1:01:19
  the English Longbow. This is quite it's quite
• 1:01:22
  something to draw on, but. I've I've learned so.
• 1:01:26
  I've learned so much from him. I can't stress that enough.
• 1:01:30
  And I get, I get to see and shoot his bows.
• 1:01:33
  I have some of his bows that I should.
• 1:01:35
  But you know, the people's that get passed around and yeah, I
• 1:01:38
  mean, nearly all our group are shooting Joe's bows because
• 1:01:43
  they're, they're just bloody brilliant.
• 1:01:46
  So it's. Kind of osmosis in in that
• 1:01:49
  respect. But I think you got to.
• 1:01:52
  Be wary not to just blatantly copy someone as well and do your
• 1:01:57
  own thing, but you can certainly take little bits away where, you
• 1:02:01
  know, whether that's like where you could leave some material
• 1:02:04
  here to, you know, speed up the design and whatnot.
• 1:02:10
  But yeah. I mean testing bows though.
• 1:02:15
  Going back to that, it's it's kind of tricky with self bows I
• 1:02:19
  find because the quality's just so varied and every bit's
• 1:02:23
  different so. Some bits are.
• 1:02:27
  Are really quick. Some bits are are pretty
• 1:02:29
  average. I mean, I'm sure you found that
• 1:02:31
  yourself. In your in your journey.
• 1:02:35
  Yeah. You mentioned.
• 1:02:39
  During your own special thing, and I asked about that earlier
• 1:02:42
  and you said part of that is the layers that you're playing
• 1:02:45
  around with and maybe like your bamboo backed Osage bow.
• 1:02:48
  What are some of the other features of rear bows I've seen
• 1:02:50
  on I guess your social media, you do horn tips on most of
• 1:02:56
  them, is that right? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:57
  Yeah, what are you? I just see it's cow.
• 1:03:02
  Horn just cow. So it's not buff, it's not
• 1:03:05
  Buffalo water Buffalo horn, it's a bit, it's a bit more readily
• 1:03:11
  available and. A bit more historically.
• 1:03:14
  Right as well. That's what they would have been
• 1:03:18
  using at the time. Then you carve those.
• 1:03:23
  In your own unique way, yeah, So.
• 1:03:26
  My laminates like going back to the humidity here, right?
• 1:03:32
  If. You work with bamboo, you know
• 1:03:34
  it's like incredibly sensitive to humidity and will just soak
• 1:03:38
  up moisture in the air like sponge.
• 1:03:43
  So which is? Problematic because if you glue
• 1:03:46
  a bow up and the bamboo is of a certain moisture content and
• 1:03:50
  that bow goes out and that's it's fine at that point, but it
• 1:03:54
  goes to the customer and they leave it in.
• 1:03:57
  They leave it in a in a room with heating on.
• 1:04:01
  For a few days. It can be or even less and it'll
• 1:04:07
  dry out and that bamboo will split which.
• 1:04:14
  Actually. It's not the end of the bow,
• 1:04:16
  it's just aesthetically not great.
• 1:04:21
  You can still shoot them. Like that because it because of
• 1:04:23
  the because the split isn't the other way it's going up.
• 1:04:26
  So it's kind of it's kind of like holding 2 pieces of
• 1:04:28
  material together. So it you.
• 1:04:31
  If you're worried about it. You could put a bit of super
• 1:04:34
  glue down there or whatnot, but yeah, I so everything goes in a
• 1:04:39
  hot box before it's glued up for hours just to get it as dry as I
• 1:04:45
  can. And then we use for our
• 1:04:49
  laminated bows. We are using an epoxy, 2 bar
• 1:04:53
  epoxy. If anybody wants to say the
• 1:04:58
  brand or whatnot, just ask me. So yeah, we mix that up.
• 1:05:03
  And we put a bit of thickener in with that and then we just use
• 1:05:09
  bands like rubber bands and we will yeah.
• 1:05:13
  So a bit of cling film over that to separate the glue from the
• 1:05:17
  bands. And it's just Constantine it
• 1:05:19
  around. Then it goes in a in a mold on a
• 1:05:22
  mold. And then we throw that in the
• 1:05:24
  oven for it's about 5 or 6 hours and the glue is completely
• 1:05:27
  cured. And that's at about 30°C.
• 1:05:35
  And I've done that with fiberglass bows as well.
• 1:05:39
  And that's been really good because most people use smooth
• 1:05:42
  on just like the sort of industry standard for that.
• 1:05:45
  But I've had nothing but problems with that stuff.
• 1:05:47
  So yeah, I use this other two-part epoxy which is a bit
• 1:05:51
  thinner. Yeah, and it's been.
• 1:05:55
  Really good stuff actually. It's same stuff Joe and Jamie
• 1:05:58
  use actually. Yeah.
• 1:06:02
  And then they come. Out and they get the treatment
• 1:06:04
  of, you know, marking out the dimensions and then we would do
• 1:06:08
  a bit of machine work and then we're straight onto hand tools.
• 1:06:14
  I was going to ask you actually. Are you are you setting up any,
• 1:06:17
  any machinery for your workshop or you're going to try and keep
• 1:06:22
  it a bit more undecided if? Anything, if I if anything, a
• 1:06:27
  bouncer. Yeah, that's and that's
• 1:06:31
  primarily that I, I'm finding now with all the lemon wood I
• 1:06:34
  have some of them are quite big logs and splitting them.
• 1:06:38
  Is a challenge. It's a very very dense wood so
• 1:06:42
  I'm finding that once I get down to somewhat smaller stays but
• 1:06:46
  still massive for a single bow. Trying to split that into two
• 1:06:50
  more staves. Had some.
• 1:06:53
  Some losses. And I feel like if I had a
• 1:06:56
  bandsaw, I could more easily navigate that and make sure I
• 1:07:00
  can get a couple staves out of that big chunk.
• 1:07:03
  So it's, it's a possibility, but I'm also highly aware of what
• 1:07:07
  the humidity and the salt does to tools here.
• 1:07:12
  And so I, I want to, I want to keep things as simple as
• 1:07:15
  possible. And so I'm not sure yet.
• 1:07:18
  I'll probably start out just with hand tools and then as I
• 1:07:20
  get going here, if I think the band saw is necessary and I'm
• 1:07:24
  also limited on what kind of band saw I can purchase here.
• 1:07:27
  Everything's very different in a place where there's nothing
• 1:07:30
  that's produced here and shipping is not really a thing.
• 1:07:34
  We don't even have addresses. We literally our homes don't
• 1:07:37
  have physical addresses. And so you make them up and you
• 1:07:39
  make them up based on a landmark.
• 1:07:42
  And so, yeah, someone's address. Might be like 2. 200 meters
• 1:07:46
  South of the bank with a red door or whatever it's it's all
• 1:07:50
  weird stuff. So you can't rely on anything
• 1:07:53
  being shipped. So you actually have to go and
• 1:07:54
  buy things from probably San Jose, which is the biggest city,
• 1:07:58
  and it's a bit cumbersome. Yeah, if you.
• 1:08:01
  Don't mind me asking. Like how have you ended up in
• 1:08:04
  Costa Rica in the in the 1st place?
• 1:08:05
  Just just sound interesting. Yeah, it was.
• 1:08:07
  It was a COVID escape plan. We were in Canada and Canada was
• 1:08:12
  locking down quickly and that wasn't working for us.
• 1:08:15
  So, yeah, decided this is the time to go and adventure and see
• 1:08:20
  what else we can find. I had two young kids at the
• 1:08:23
  time. So right now they're 15 and 13.
• 1:08:25
  So I don't know what was that five, 5-6 years ago.
• 1:08:29
  I didn't want to raise my kids in in that environment that
• 1:08:32
  Canada was slipping into. And so we just took off.
• 1:08:36
  And it was a, a whim, quite literally, like let's let's go.
• 1:08:41
  And we didn't know how long we were going to stay for, but we
• 1:08:43
  fell in love with it. And just the way of life here is
• 1:08:46
  very different. And my wife and you surf as.
• 1:08:50
  Well, twice a day. Every day.
• 1:08:54
  Well, yeah, Yeah. I don't know if you know, like
• 1:08:58
  we're really close to Cornwall where we are.
• 1:09:00
  I don't know if you know, as a as a surfing destination.
• 1:09:03
  It is known worldwide. Definitely heard of some.
• 1:09:05
  Good spots in the coast. Yeah, so we have.
• 1:09:10
  Newquay and we have something called board masters here so
• 1:09:14
  I'm. Going off.
• 1:09:14
  Topic, I know, but yeah, it's we have like we have all the pros
• 1:09:18
  coming of like every year and do a competition.
• 1:09:22
  So yeah, laser surfing around. Here.
• 1:09:23
  Yeah. Well, if you ever get, if you
• 1:09:25
  ever come, if you ever come to this part of the world, you
• 1:09:27
  should check it out. Yeah.
• 1:09:29
  Do you surf I. Used to, I just can't find the
• 1:09:33
  time like because by the time it's an hour's drive, which
• 1:09:36
  isn't horrendous, but it takes like most of the day to go and
• 1:09:39
  surf and come back. Yeah, with.
• 1:09:41
  The kids it's. Just.
• 1:09:44
  Yeah, I, I'm. Just taking the time out on our
• 1:09:46
  life at the moment and just trying to survive basically.
• 1:09:50
  Yeah. Yeah, we set ourselves up in a
• 1:09:53
  place where it's a 5 minute walk to our favorite surf break and
• 1:09:57
  my son comes with me, my wife sometimes comes.
• 1:09:59
  So it's it's a family thing too. But I'm not out there on my own,
• 1:10:02
  I'm out there with them. So, but yeah, what were we
• 1:10:07
  talking about before that? I'm sorry.
• 1:10:10
  Yeah, sorry, I went off on the well.
• 1:10:13
  I'll. Just go off on something new.
• 1:10:16
  Where did you get the name for your company?
• 1:10:17
  Black Arrow Longbows. There there's a a book.
• 1:10:25
  An old book which. I have somewhere which is is
• 1:10:29
  called the black arrow and OK, there's there's also like I'm
• 1:10:33
  not really, I should probably know more about it, but there is
• 1:10:36
  some connotation about it. In English.
• 1:10:41
  Folklore. I'm sorry, I should, I should
• 1:10:44
  have been more prepared really for that question.
• 1:10:46
  But yeah. It.
• 1:10:49
  Has got like a yeah, there's there's something in English
• 1:10:51
  folklore and it just thought I just like the ring of it
• 1:10:54
  basically and I have thought about changing it.
• 1:10:58
  But I feel. I feel like after 10 years, it's
• 1:11:01
  sort of like, yeah, it's established, yeah.
• 1:11:07
  Do you? Make arrows as.
• 1:11:08
  Well. Yeah, yeah, we do.
• 1:11:12
  Like we might We we mostly make bows and I spend most of my.
• 1:11:17
  You know 5. Percent of my time just doing
• 1:11:19
  bows, yeah, people tend to order them, like with a bow, water to
• 1:11:24
  suit that bow, you know, Yeah. Yeah, we make war.
• 1:11:28
  Arrows as well, and I've got I've got a friend that makes the
• 1:11:33
  heads. But yeah, proper like.
• 1:11:36
  Medieval heads and he also does the leather work.
• 1:11:40
  So we we. Offer like back quivers and feel
• 1:11:43
  the bits. So it's nice.
• 1:11:45
  It's nice to team up with with someone like that and sort of
• 1:11:49
  try it out for a bit more because I just, I just can't
• 1:11:51
  make everything I wish I could, but I just, yeah, like I said,
• 1:11:55
  to try and concentrate on the actual boat craft.
• 1:11:59
  Yeah, and. And I remember.
• 1:12:01
  I remember we were talking about tools.
• 1:12:02
  What what tools do you use? Mostly in I presume for making
• 1:12:07
  laminates? Power tools have to be part of
• 1:12:09
  that. Yeah.
• 1:12:10
  So yeah. Laminates it will after the glue
• 1:12:13
  up it will be you know bandsaw and I have a very large side
• 1:12:19
  Sander belt Sander thing which I'll clear I'll clean up the saw
• 1:12:23
  marks with and then I will guess on to I mean it God, it does
• 1:12:28
  depend on on the wood because. Some of the.
• 1:12:32
  Some of these hardwoods just won't take a blade.
• 1:12:35
  Did just choose out. But yeah I I generally use like
• 1:12:40
  a #4 Jack plane. It's pretty handy.
• 1:12:45
  Obviously like draw knives for South bows.
• 1:12:50
  I've got a. Lovely little.
• 1:12:52
  Viking thumb drawer. Which I if if.
• 1:12:57
  You're interested I can link you to, but funnily enough my the
• 1:13:00
  guy who makes him lives in Canada so probably wouldn't be
• 1:13:04
  too hard to hold. One is it.
• 1:13:06
  Like a draw knife. It's like a tiny 1.
• 1:13:09
  Yeah, it's called a thumb draw knife.
• 1:13:12
  I think they found them in some like Viking.
• 1:13:16
  Sort of archaeological. Dig or something, but there it's
• 1:13:18
  an historical like tool pretty Hardy really give sapwood on you
• 1:13:24
  just cleaning up sapwood. They use that one quite a lot
• 1:13:29
  and then farriers, rasps, files, spokeshaves and then cabinet
• 1:13:37
  scrapers, sandpaper. So like nothing crazy.
• 1:13:43
  I've got a few, I've got a few like nice, nice tools, but.
• 1:13:48
  You certainly don't. Need to like spend loads of
• 1:13:50
  money on on hand tools to get a good result.
• 1:13:54
  But if you're using them every. Day is it's pretty.
• 1:13:56
  It's. Pretty good to have something.
• 1:13:58
  That's good, you know that handles the work a bit better.
• 1:14:03
  Back when you were talking. About gluing up, you were
• 1:14:05
  talking about kind of plastic wrap and then wrapping those and
• 1:14:09
  are using like tires, old bicycle tires or?
• 1:14:14
  Anything I can get? Hold of Yeah.
• 1:14:17
  Yeah. So I just.
• 1:14:18
  I just interviewed Jess Bogner. I haven't published it yet, and
• 1:14:22
  he's making these beautiful, more modern bows.
• 1:14:26
  Sometimes he's using fiberglass, but he.
• 1:14:29
  I didn't ask him enough about it, but he said he uses an air
• 1:14:31
  compression system to glue his layers together.
• 1:14:35
  Yeah. You heard of that?
• 1:14:36
  He like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:38
  So. Sounded really cool.
• 1:14:40
  Yeah, I. Think like.
• 1:14:41
  These these like fire hose and they like clamp the ends
• 1:14:46
  together and it's like a, an air compression tank.
• 1:14:49
  And you just, I think, I think Joe uses that for his bones.
• 1:14:56
  OK, it's a little bit. More, it's a bit, it's a little
• 1:14:59
  bit more involved and you have to like.
• 1:15:01
  If you're using a mold. Then you have to have something
• 1:15:03
  the other side of it to hold the pipe.
• 1:15:08
  Next to the. To the bow.
• 1:15:10
  You're glaring up, basically. So yeah, I.
• 1:15:14
  Know like like Bear Archery and the big companies they'll
• 1:15:19
  they'll use that when they when they glip their bows, but it's
• 1:15:22
  actually quite hard to get hold of the stuff to do weirdly they
• 1:15:26
  used they used to be a company in the UK that would sell you
• 1:15:29
  all that stuff but they're they're gone now only they don't
• 1:15:31
  offer it. So if you will, you know, it's
• 1:15:35
  probably a better way of doing it, but you just need to hunt
• 1:15:38
  down the equipment basically you need.
• 1:15:40
  To have some, yeah. Unrelated to.
• 1:15:43
  You specifically, but what's the difference in a traditional
• 1:15:46
  English Longbow and a Victorian Longbow?
• 1:15:51
  Right. Yeah, well, the most obvious.
• 1:15:56
  Thing is the handle area on a Victorian bow is is steep.
• 1:16:01
  So it's it's an unbending part of the of the bow.
• 1:16:04
  So that was put in by a chap called Buchanan and they are
• 1:16:10
  called the Buchanan Dips. And the and.
• 1:16:13
  The idea was to stabilize the shot so the hat the the bow
• 1:16:17
  wasn't moving as much after release.
• 1:16:21
  So for target archery, arguably maybe a bit better for
• 1:16:27
  consistency. So that's.
• 1:16:32
  Probably the main thing, obviously it changes the teller
• 1:16:36
  because it's not bending in the middle is the.
• 1:16:40
  Handle thicker yeah what are? These.
• 1:16:43
  Buchanan dips. I've never heard it before.
• 1:16:46
  Well, if you just. If you think of a like a flat
• 1:16:49
  bow design. It's basically that.
• 1:16:52
  It's just. Basically that just not as big
• 1:16:54
  and and you're still maintaining the the the D stacked limb
• 1:16:59
  section. OK, these just the swelling is
• 1:17:02
  are are the limbs the same? On yeah, yeah, just.
• 1:17:07
  It's literally so the. Handle.
• 1:17:09
  The actual bit you're grabbing is about four inches and then
• 1:17:14
  about 3 inches either side of that.
• 1:17:16
  The wood's going to be a lot thicker than it would be on a
• 1:17:21
  medieval tailored bow. So if it's like a full compass
• 1:17:23
  bow like what we do. Yeah.
• 1:17:28
  So that design doesn't really. It's not great for heavier
• 1:17:32
  English long bows because. Because.
• 1:17:36
  Bows like that will follow. The string a lot quicker and get
• 1:17:39
  worn out because there's these like 8 inches of it that aren't
• 1:17:44
  moving at all, so you put in more work onto the bending part.
• 1:17:49
  The rest of the the limbs. So yeah, I do the the.
• 1:17:54
  Full compass. Tiller on all of my bows unless
• 1:17:56
  somebody asks for a Victorian style tiller.
• 1:17:59
  OK. Are the Victorians, can they be
• 1:18:02
  self bowls or are they laminate? Yeah.
• 1:18:05
  Yeah, both. Yeah.
• 1:18:06
  So, OK. I mean, I mean historically it
• 1:18:09
  would have been you, then they would splice the handle.
• 1:18:13
  Which you can do when the. Handle's not moving right?
• 1:18:16
  Yes, of. Course.
• 1:18:17
  But. So yeah, that's what they would.
• 1:18:20
  Have done traditionally they did do other laminates but yeah I
• 1:18:25
  think mostly they did U bows actually.
• 1:18:29
  So so. The the fold compass design is
• 1:18:32
  it is is better. But.
• 1:18:35
  It's a bit less forgiving because.
• 1:18:38
  If you handle. Areas moving too much.
• 1:18:40
  It's, it's like it's potentially the weakest part of the bone,
• 1:18:43
  isn't it? Because it's right in the
• 1:18:44
  middle. And you.
• 1:18:47
  You. Can run into problems if you
• 1:18:49
  don't tiller them right. So it's really important to have
• 1:18:55
  the top limb be weaker really important because like not
• 1:19:00
  everybody does it actually, even though if you look at most sort
• 1:19:05
  of English Longbow making books, they tell you to do it, but not
• 1:19:09
  everybody does. But it's good to follow that
• 1:19:12
  because when you when you draw the bow, like you're especially
• 1:19:18
  heavy war bows, you actually heal, you actually heal the
• 1:19:24
  handle. So you like, you know the.
• 1:19:28
  Your. Wrist and the base of your
• 1:19:32
  thumb, that's where a lot of that's where basically all the
• 1:19:36
  weights being held. So it's actually below center.
• 1:19:39
  So it puts a lot of stress on the lower limb, so.
• 1:19:42
  If that lower limb. Isn't stiffer over time, it's it
• 1:19:47
  over time. It probably will come round a
• 1:19:49
  bit from when it was made more than you know you put in and
• 1:19:54
  when it was new. Yeah, I know, I know.
• 1:19:58
  Some guys will just do a symmetrical tiller on a fold
• 1:20:02
  compass Longbow and they don't last you.
• 1:20:05
  Always, Yeah. You'll get compression fractures
• 1:20:08
  or it'll just explode basically. And yeah, and it's not something
• 1:20:12
  you want to happen with a heavy bow.
• 1:20:14
  So yeah, these. Are things I've.
• 1:20:17
  Learned, you know from. My own experience.
• 1:20:22
  And talking with other people and there's yeah.
• 1:20:25
  And this is what I was sort of getting at about heavy bows just
• 1:20:29
  being so much less forgiving. So other things like how much of
• 1:20:37
  the tips go? Into the.
• 1:20:39
  Knocks. So you like if?
• 1:20:41
  You're if you're making a target weight bow.
• 1:20:45
  Say 40 lbs. You can you get you'll get away
• 1:20:47
  with just having an inch. Of wood going.
• 1:20:51
  Into the comb of the horn. But if you do that on a, if you
• 1:20:55
  do that on a really heavy bow, that's just going to that's
• 1:20:58
  going to. Go again.
• 1:21:02
  I've learned this the hard. Way at times.
• 1:21:05
  So yeah, you want to, if you're doing like heavy bow, you need
• 1:21:08
  like. Well, what's an inch?
• 1:21:10
  About 25 mil, so you need like 40 mil going into that.
• 1:21:15
  So you it's that. But it's that balance of over
• 1:21:19
  building, maybe we could call it, but not over building and
• 1:21:23
  and robbing the performance. So you're constantly like
• 1:21:28
  dancing this sort of dance of well, the bows got with either
• 1:21:32
  way, the bows got withstand use, but you obviously you want that
• 1:21:37
  boat to perform as well as it can, so.
• 1:21:41
  These are like. Sort of challenges you don't
• 1:21:43
  really get quite. As much with.
• 1:21:46
  Lighter boat really and and the wood wears out quicker as well
• 1:21:52
  as in that boat. A heavy boat will get shot out.
• 1:21:57
  And a lighter. Boat might never get shot out.
• 1:22:02
  And string. Following all these, all these
• 1:22:03
  problems that we're always trying to avoid, aren't we?
• 1:22:08
  Yes, yeah. Thank you.
• 1:22:11
  Tim, thanks for doing this. All right.
• 1:22:12
  No absolute pleasure. Where?
• 1:22:15
  Where? Can.
• 1:22:15
  People find more out about you and your bows and maybe get one.
• 1:22:21
  Yeah. So we have a.
• 1:22:22
  Website itsjustourname.com back our Lambos.
• 1:22:28
  I'm pretty prolific on Instagram, so there's there's a
• 1:22:32
  shad load of like previous work on there.
• 1:22:36
  So yeah, we're on that and we're on Facebook.
• 1:22:37
  But if you want to reach us, probably best to just e-mail
• 1:22:41
  with the contact through the website that we have.
• 1:22:45
  Oh yeah, and I know. We talked about Joe Gibbs.
• 1:22:49
  Are there any other Bowers you'd recommend for the podcast?
• 1:22:54
  Yeah, yeah, God, in the UK boom making bow Years by Richard Head
• 1:23:01
  would probably be pretty. Good he's been.
• 1:23:04
  Around a long time. Also a bit of a wild.
• 1:23:08
  Card, but Mark Grady, he's he makes Victorian style bows, but
• 1:23:16
  he's he's heavily involved with some of our like pretty sort of
• 1:23:21
  ancient archery societies. So might be a bit of a different
• 1:23:26
  angle. And his his father.
• 1:23:29
  Was a Bowyer for a long, long time.
• 1:23:32
  So he really. Knows.
• 1:23:35
  He really knows his stuff. So yeah, if you want any contact
• 1:23:38
  information, just let me know. I'll try to get you up.
• 1:23:41
  But awesome. Anything else you want to add
• 1:23:44
  before we sign off? Any no questions parting words
• 1:23:48
  of wisdom, just thanks for. Enduring the word salad that
• 1:23:51
  I've. I know I.
• 1:23:54
  Can go off on a tangent quite easily on these things.
• 1:23:56
  So yeah, just, you know, say, well, thanks for the
• 1:23:58
  opportunity. And yeah, like.
• 1:24:02
  Keep in touch and if you come to the UK at any point.
• 1:24:08
  Sounds good it's cool or something and we.
• 1:24:09
  Can, yeah, I'll show you around the workshop or one or if you
• 1:24:12
  come down. Oh, I would like to do that.
• 1:24:14
  Yeah, thank you. Great.
• 1:24:15
  Well, thanks again and have a great day. for listening to.
• 1:24:28
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• 1:24:34
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