Latest / Connect Call / EP09 - Ethical Treatment of Trans Youth: Myths and Facts with Jordan Held

Transcript

EP09 - Ethical Treatment of Trans Youth: Myths and Facts with Jordan Held · Connect Call

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, you've reached the voicemail of Hannah Brett with Connect Call.
0:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Just leave a message and I'll get back to you soon as I can.
0:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
0:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one for more options.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Anna, I got your number for my son's therapist.
0:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Just to give you a little background, my son is 16 currently struggling with anxiety, depression.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He's definitely was drawing from his school in studies and he's just isolating in this room.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: He's definitely being bullied.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: My child is transgender and uses the pronouns he, him, so first and foremost, what I really love to hear about is if you are a safe, you know, would love to discuss the program and how you approach housing and group assignments, love to hear back from you and thank you.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, bye.
0:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, this is Hannah Brett with another episode of Connect Call, where I often say I do not have a clinical background, but I do have a PhD for picking up the phone for families in crisis is cheesy as that tagline is I think I'm going to go with it today we have a very special guest not only a good friend, but an amazing colleague in our industry.
1:05
[SPEAKER_01]: his name is Jordan Held.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He is this amazing therapist out of Los Angeles.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He owns and is the co-founder of relentless pursuit therapy and consulting.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Jordan specializes in acute and chronic trauma, LGBTQ affirming care, and the kind of complicated family dynamics that don't typically
1:23
[SPEAKER_01]: fit in neatly in the traditional treatment models and Jordan and I have worked on a few cases in the past and I really wanted to bring him on the show to talk about a subject that is near and dear to my heart because I feel like there's so much misinformation out there and there needs I just I know Jordan can clear all this up so what we wanted to talk about a lot today is about trans youth, trans youth and treatment but really I think begin the show by
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: from the beginning kind of what is transgender, right?
1:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Or what, you know, because I still think people are mixing a one's gender with one sexuality.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So Jordan, welcome to the show.
2:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for being here.
2:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And thanks for having me.
2:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's clear things up.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's so interesting.
2:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of still like, why are we still talking about this?
2:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I live since I'm boring life, you know?
2:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I don't really, I love my life.
2:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that it's like, oh my God, the why is this such a thing, you know, right?
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I take a step back and I'm like, okay, it's a thing because, you know, we have these assumptions.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We have these assumptions, you know, around who people are.
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[SPEAKER_02]: how they act, how they dress.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then when we see someone or maybe hear something that's different, we start to make those assumptions.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And with all due respect, I'm all about, um, listen, I've said for a very long time, anything you see in the media, uh,
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's always, you know, it's do a fact check.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Always have credible sources to back it up.
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a lot of like misinformation out there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a support, kind of regulating health care for transuse and all that.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think it's just important to hear from the professionals and the people that are working with these kids and individuals exactly what it is and what is going on.
3:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So well, and I appreciate you saying that because they do see and we'll dive into this later, you know, but I do see there's so much misinformation, there's also a lot of people who are in the treatment industry, who are hopping on to this LGBTQ train because they think that it's profitable for their treatment center and tell you they are doing damage, they are doing a lot of damage to young people that literally just want to figure out how to stay alive, but let's start just from the ground zero, like really quickly.
3:37
[SPEAKER_02]: What does it need to be transgender?
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Transgender is an umbrella term in 2026.
3:41
[SPEAKER_02]: What I mean by that is, there are a lot of different identities that can kind of stem off of transgender.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Essentially, the breakdown is that your gender identity, so how you feel yourself see yourself existing the world, is different from the sex that you were assigned at birth.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Right, so I'll use myself as an example.
4:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I was assigned female at birth.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I lived 30 years of my life in a female body in a female world.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I started at 30 to socially and then subsequently medically transition.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I am a transgender man.
4:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
4:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But here's the thing, under that umbrella, non-binary gender fluid gender queer demi-boy demi-girl love not like how it matters I don't even know what your what it doesn't matter what is demi-boy demi-girl
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is what we're going to get into.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about it because I think here's what here's what well it's all about learning and that's why when we do Right take paper work all we need to have is a right in line just our identity boom climb puts it in and that way we don't need to be the keeper of all this information right
4:54
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I, you know, a big reason of why I wanted to do this episode is, and then I stress that some, I think, a lot of my episodes is a, I'm not a parent, but after working 20 years with a, really, my passion and play has been for kids, young adults, and adolescents, I, I'm an advocate for all children, and when I say all children, I mean all children.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and I recently, one of the projects I was working with was a great treatment center
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[SPEAKER_01]: under the umbrella of decisions, treatment in Malibu and Los Angeles.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found that, well, two things I found.
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[SPEAKER_01]: One is I found that we were seeing a ton of kids who identified as transgender.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I also saw with those children, they all just didn't want to be alive anymore.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I get it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We don't, we're not inviting them to be here, you know, name 100% like we don't want them to be here.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
5:51
[SPEAKER_02]: When we see somebody in our society now, who is other, who is going through a different experience, right, turn against them and instead of turning towards them.
6:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
6:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, when you break it down like that, and you know, by the way, very little people get that.
6:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
6:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what you just said, this idea that trans kids are presenting to treatment, not because they're trans, but because society has fucked them.
6:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's a big deal.
6:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
6:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Like these these young people first fall.
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[SPEAKER_02]: are growing up in households whose parents are watching and listening to news that is giving statistics and facts that are, I mean, let's bust some clear myths right from the get go.
6:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's go.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Go on.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This idea, this idea,
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[SPEAKER_02]: being transgender is new, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a new concept.
6:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Why have we ever been seeing this over the last five to 10 years, right?
6:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Gender diverse people have always existed across cultures and throughout history.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And in fact, if you were to do your research into some other countries, trans people are actually, you know, revered, right?
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Trans people are respected.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It is something in the state back centuries, and something.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It is amazing and there's some great books on trans research too of folks interested in it because it is interesting.
7:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Why this is why we're seeing more trans youth now is actually very simple.
7:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Those trans youth have access now to things like history, like the internet, things like that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Which is not making them trans.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's making them understand that trend.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on existed.
7:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, and then just on that note too, you know, I've heard this argument from some people who say, and by the way, when we talk about transgender, we're talking about one's gender.
7:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're not talking about one's sexuality.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That that's also a big misconception out there.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so many people in the treatment industry and people that I know confuse and think that like if you're trans you're gay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It has one has nothing to do with the other, but you can be, but it doesn't have to do with the other.
8:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And with that being said,
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[SPEAKER_01]: small, small, angry, miserable group of LGBTQ participants who want to not allow trans people to be a part of the LGBTQ plate, the flag and everything.
8:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And we talk about history, I mean,
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[SPEAKER_01]: are our fights of, and I'm a gay woman, and I know this for our civil rights and to fight for just to be treated equally.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Transgender people were standing and fighting right with us, you know what I mean?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that is why they shouldn't be excluded from this and those who think that again, check yourself before you wreck yourself.
8:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because well, yeah, check yourself for sure.
8:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and we should probably bust this right from the gate, because this is one of the biggest things that will end up talking about through right at the so when we're talking about trans people in 2026.
9:02
[SPEAKER_02]: There is an especially when we hear the term.
9:06
[SPEAKER_02]: gender affirmation.
9:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
9:08
[SPEAKER_02]: When people hear this term for some reason, it now gets translated in the brain as a child who is now about to get down on a surgery table and have a surgery or have something medical.
9:21
[SPEAKER_02]: The idea and the aspect of gender affirmation actually needs to be way more simplified, and it's actually just called respect.
9:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's called meeting someone where they're at 90% of the time with somebody under 18 years old.
9:37
[SPEAKER_02]: There is nothing medical that is even a part of this person's journey.
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[SPEAKER_02]: When most kids, when we're talking about kids, this is a confusing
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's 18, but in the gender world, we're talking, we have to be a little more specific.
9:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Pre-puberty, oh, supery, right?
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Because here's the thing about purity.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Before a kid starts purity, and we see a lot of these kids even in young, young, treatment because, you know, once again, kids are getting younger and younger when it comes to their mental health.
10:10
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing to medicalize.
10:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
10:12
[SPEAKER_02]: What we're seeing with these kids is even with puberty, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're seeing kids changing their names.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe trying out a new pronoun using, um, you know, uh, wanting to wear a different clothes, um, wanting to kind of sort of kind of try out gender gender is something that we should all be trying out by the
10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: but you're saying this and but I've also heard like so when a puberty blockers introduce them because isn't it supposed to block puberty yeah it would be so cool and this is a medicalist would turn into a medical podcast right which is very interesting I think you know people should know about this stuff it's a good question something like puberty blockers would be introduced
10:58
[SPEAKER_02]: at the onset of puberty, right?
11:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So the pediatricians use what's called the tanner stages.
11:05
[SPEAKER_02]: The tanner stages measure where it is in puberty, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So the blocker then would be introduced that would block the assigned hormones in this person.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It would buy some time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Blockers used to buy time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So is that not considered medical care?
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when you're talking about it is it's medical care, but it's fully reversible.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's what we need to say that again.
11:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Blockers are fully reversible.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Meaning they'll don't know what people don't need.
11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: People don't know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And block, here's where people also don't know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Blockers have been around for years, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: They were used for kids who would, oh yeah, they would start going through endogenous puberty.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That means basically it's like puberty gets started earlier.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They would get blocked because you don't want to have a hairy six year old.
11:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's weird.
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[SPEAKER_02]: No one wants a hairy six year old.
11:58
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
12:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So these things and interventions have been used for a long time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, oh, this is something we can use in gender care.
12:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But look, this is also a very small sect of the population, small small that would even go on puberty blockers and then subsequently cry six hormones.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This would be a kid who came out when they were very, very young, who had a strong sense of self when they were two, three years old.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, here's a thing, and this is where, and we'll couple things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: One, I have a girlfriend of mine from high school, and I've watched her from afar on social media and she had, uh,
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: at birth she birth twin boys, right?
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But from the gate, out the gate, as soon as this child could walk, one of the boys really identified as a girl and dressed as a girl and they respected and owned that and let her do that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's so much getting messed up is like what you're just saying now is so important for people to hear because they think like the first thing I hear people say, and by the way, there's nothing more than I hate.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And dislike, then if you're going to come to the table to disagree or to state like these lawmakers to make these changes.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like kind of like with a with women's bodies like they're so misinformation and it's it's not only so misinformation, but they're making these decisions based on their fears and what you're telling us is and this is what I'm hearing from so many people it's like who are we to decide like these kids are so young that we're doing this medical care on and what all I'm hearing from you is no medical cares really being done before 18 also anything that is being done like a puberty blocker everybody listen up that can be reversed.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be worse.
13:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And everything on 18 and a year by the way, this is not happening in your household.
13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So why do you give a shit?
13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why do you work?
13:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's the why do you give a shit factor?
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's coming up.
13:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Why is his important is because people are personal parents need to consent.
14:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Kids are not just getting things by the way.
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You should see the journey that it takes number one and twenty twenty six to find the gender clinic that will even work with young people because this political administration is absolutely dismantled you can out of propaganda entirely right and you know.
14:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to just for you go on just before we go on to that.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And just a stress and I vote for who you voted for.
14:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care.
14:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have to stress this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This whole transgender plight with our administration is a bunch of bullshit.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: because if you really think about it, the transgender community takes up maybe one to two percent of Americans right now and if you whether it's sports which takes up I think in college sports I read it's like 0.02 percent of athletes or in an Olympics it's 0.01.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: These are all just this plight of trying to like
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, banned this and banned that, it's just a deflect from what's really needed to be done in our administration.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel horrible that these, these, these people and these kids that I have seen in treatment are being used, you know, used basically their rights and everything are being taken away and also being hated on because
15:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, in none of this stuff, you know, we've re-regressed.
15:27
[SPEAKER_02]: We've regressed as a country.
15:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, don't be.
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that we have so much of this is just misunderstood.
15:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I just wish people would listen.
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish people would actually ask questions to have spurts who understand this work because what they would really realize is that when we're talking about kids, most of the stuff they are doing is irreversible.
15:50
[SPEAKER_02]: even when a young person does start cross-sex hormones with deemed correct, there isn't a fake, this idea of detransitioning.
15:59
[SPEAKER_02]: People are not doing that.
16:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Those numbers are so incredibly low, these were correct rates.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This idea of regret, it barely exists.
16:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And what happens when you don't listen to your young person is that they feel unsafe.
16:17
[SPEAKER_02]: They feel unheard.
16:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So how this translates into the mental health world and why we're seeing so many young people presenting to care, it's not because they're trans, right?
16:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Because society's telling them that they should not exist, right?
16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So they have depression and anxiety, isolation, school avoidance.
16:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Hell, some of these kids are not going to school.
16:39
[SPEAKER_02]: they are being bullied, they have had suicide attempts.
16:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Once again, it's not because their trans, it's because they are being told they shouldn't exist, and they are being bullied.
16:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
16:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's by the way happening at treatment centers.
16:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're talking about that.
16:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's for you, we're doing great with our questions right now.
16:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just like reading over, um, because we've had a lot, but uh, and let's go back to sports.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was also another thing that Jordan and I wanted to talk about is working in the treatment industry, the helping industry.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I got into this work, I think Jordan did too.
17:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We help everybody, right?
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: This mental health substance use, you know, the self medicating the substance use, all of it, none of it discriminates, it's for all, right?
17:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what,
17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: has been really frustrating from where I'm sitting and I'll give a perfect example is you know when I was working at Arrowhouse if I had a kid who was trans and they needed let's say a higher level of care or something happened where they got into a fight with a kid in treatment and we had to pull the mountain put him into another treatment center immediately I was like oh this is going to be hard because we were one of the only few treatment centers that I was aware of in the country
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: where these kids were allowed to sleep in a dorm, in a hall, the gender they identified, and not the gender they were born with.
18:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you call these treatment centers, and I'm not going to name names, but like some of the crazy people would be like, you know, I don't want a woman on campus, whether whatever out or I don't, you know, and it's or what, you know, and I've worked for treatment centers too, where they're like, well, we don't do that.
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do like, well, what's that, you know, it's like, we don't do that, but overall, like, what are some of the issues that you're seeing that you think we need to change and and yeah, I mean, I don't know oversight.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no oversight in there.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the people are people are really concerned about will parents are going to be really upset if they have, you know,
18:44
[SPEAKER_01]: a young man who was born a girl sleeping with the guys.
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, what does that mean?
18:48
[SPEAKER_02]: What is coming up from that is actually just this assumption.
18:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the invalidation of identity.
18:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Meaning this person is actually not a girl.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They are still a boy.
18:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And for some reason, this boy is going to be predatory.
19:04
[SPEAKER_02]: There is now this assumption of predatory behavior, which is the same thing that is rooted in sports.
19:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, you only see this about trans females.
19:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You never hear this about trans men, because society trans men are still women and women or whatever we don't care about women, but it's the misogyny.
19:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, if we look at it, it's about lens.
19:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's very fascinating when you kind of dive into the socialization of what people are perceiving and experiencing.
19:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, this happened, this is how the bathroom bill started 10 years ago in North Carolina when, you know, people are starting to, let's fan trans people from bathrooms, how are you going to do that?
19:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's this assumption that you can spot a trans person.
19:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
19:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an assumption that you can tell, right, who is trans, who is cisgender and by the way, most of the time, you actually can't.
19:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't.
19:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know this because when I go across the country and I do train programs who actually do want to learn and get better at this.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
20:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I just flows my gender identity.
20:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, wouldn't the known, and I'm like exactly.
20:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because you can't just like look at a trans person and spot them, that's super discriminatory.
20:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And when it comes to the rooming, okay, so a kid is coming in because they've been bullied harassed and then they're going to go into your treatment center and you're going to bully and harass them.
20:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
20:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Or you're going to have a, um, you know, a trans person room with their assigned sex when they don't even identify that way, which is so weird when
20:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when we have these children, what do you think they're going to have sex?
20:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, women have sex with women and men and sex with men all the time.
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you talking about and and just to stress to for all the parents out there that are in fear or treatment center owners that are scared of upsetting these parents.
20:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to tell you time and time again, when you actually hang out with these adolescents and young adults, they could give a rat's ass.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't care.
21:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, you know, it's how they're been growing up.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They grown up with just so much more like it's just a different generation, which is amazing.
21:10
[SPEAKER_01]: They're open.
21:11
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like not as prejudice with this kind of stuff than our other older generations.
21:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel that like, you know, even.
21:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, treatment centers I've worked with in the past where they still confuse transgender with being gay, you know, or like, and I'm like, one to the other.
21:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and this is an opportunity for you as a treatment center actually to stand out, right, and to not go with whatever one else is doing right to not begin right, I mean,
21:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not what it is, it's not what it is, we need to call it out, we need to call it out that you are a discriminatory provider, and we don't do that in this industry, right?
21:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And someone, you know, I have had treatment centers where I've done a one hour training 10 years ago, they threw something on the website that they are LGBTQ trained, competent, they have not come back to me for a refresher ever.
22:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's very intentional.
22:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a money.
22:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We can work with this population, but then this population goes through a treatment center.
22:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:14
[SPEAKER_02]: They inflict harm.
22:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we have to undo harm.
22:18
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not the right thing in this tree.
22:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and
22:29
[SPEAKER_01]: a couple of the worst things that were said to me early on when I was in a treatment center.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I am gay, I'm not transgender, but at the time I remember I was just coming out and a big part of why I was drinking and drugging and my depression was I didn't want to be gay.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember I was at this treatment center and I broke down to this clinical director of somebody that, you know, I was struggling with my sexuality and all that and she kind of like
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to save that.
22:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't share that in group.
22:59
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not the right place to talk about it.
23:01
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as she said that, as soon as she said that, literally just crawl back into my shell and here I'm saying narrative that I have been telling myself, I said, Oh, that's true.
23:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not wanted.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you said that because when trauma comes up, when all these new modalities come up, we're getting trained, right?
23:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I also love the caught out of like, oh, yeah, like, we're not prepared.
23:24
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not the right place.
23:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what?
23:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, because this is, you know, when I treat when I train clinicians so often, you know, one of the first things I say is don't automatically put down gender dysphoria.
23:35
[SPEAKER_02]: If you know that a client identifies as trans, you have no idea if they, if that is a diagnostic criteria for them, they might be fine.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I might be presenting the treatment for trauma because I got into a car accident because the tornado just hit my house where we are filled with these assumptions as a site society about what is wrong with somebody instead of how we can help somebody.
23:57
[SPEAKER_02]: right.
23:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is getting even harder right now.
23:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you where the pool is getting smaller and smaller.
24:01
[SPEAKER_02]: All these higher levels of care.
24:03
[SPEAKER_02]: When I'm talking about post, I mean, residential treatment is hard enough right now.
24:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like you said, probably two to three treatment centers I would ever refer to.
24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: When you go beyond that, hospitalization, long-term care, because of licensure, so many of these programs are in states.
24:20
[SPEAKER_02]: that are actively targeting trans folks and trans youth in particular.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they're, it's very hard to find long-term stable care for some of these young people, especially who are actively and acutely suicidal.
24:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard and this becomes a balance because it's like do I put my child in a container where I know that they will be physically saved, but do I risk their emotional safety?
24:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, well, and I wish I wish people actually like were open to learning and understanding and experience that you inherently do not know because it's not your experience and then you don't need to know and actually don't know because that's not your life.
25:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I never, I know here's the thing, Hannah, I actually never.
25:11
[SPEAKER_02]: care if people ask me questions as long as they are rooted in at least 5% of good feet.
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: My bar is really low.
25:19
[SPEAKER_01]: My bar is real low.
25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But I want people to be like, hey, tell me you're saying, let's have this conversation.
25:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Kids and young adults are walking through the world totally separate from their identity.
25:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
25:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of the kids, there are kind of two groups of trans kids that I see in the world right now.
25:38
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a group that is out and proud.
25:40
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll be at pride.
25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll be with the rainbow flag.
25:43
[SPEAKER_02]: They are proud to be who they are.
25:47
[SPEAKER_02]: But then the bigger majority, and this is newer within the last five years, and these are the kids that are presenting actually to your treatment centers.
25:54
[SPEAKER_02]: They're what they call like stealth, right?
25:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They're undisclosed.
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You cannot tell the difference.
26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: They fly under the radar.
26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't identify as trans.
26:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So they wouldn't say I'm a trans man.
26:05
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just a man or a boy.
26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
26:07
[SPEAKER_02]: They do not attempt to tee to anything.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And guess what?
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You can unless you literally did a general extension.
26:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
26:14
[SPEAKER_02]: General search at the door, which by the way, creepy if you're doing that as a treatment center would not know.
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You know how tragic, right?
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like part of who I am today and my growth in healing is my my honesty and my truth and my story.
26:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And so to tell these kids to and they don't have to disclose to everybody.
26:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But to know, but we are actively taking away people's ability to have a story, because if I have a story, I am bad.
26:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is where the core beliefs tap in, right?
26:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I am bad.
26:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not worthy.
26:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not deserve.
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I should not live.
26:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I am better off dead.
26:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And these kids believed that.
26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know why they believe it because they're being told it.
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to go back to what you were saying about having conversations.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm a big believer of this.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I may not.
27:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I have opinions on gun reform and a lot of things, but let me tell you something.
27:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I have some of the best conversations with people that don't agree with me and I love to be educated on their standpoint and listen and hear and be informed on stuff I don't understand.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: What kills so many people who feel this way are just like, nope, that's it.
27:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I feel.
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I thought I feel.
27:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, it would be great.
27:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And I hand it honestly as if someone was like, if people who are listening to this, who work in the treatment industry, be like, wow, I think that those are our policies.
27:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that we actually have been trained in this.
27:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that we have competency in this.
27:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, I really want to shift that right we don't need to be experts because by the way, you don't need to be an expert on trans care right you're an expert on mental health, you know, how you become an expert in mental health, you work with people right and I say something that's really shitty, but it's the truth and I know with it.
28:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like in the treatment industry like.
28:12
[SPEAKER_01]: like people with like, oh, we don't do this.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But if Jennifer Lopez called with her child or Angelina Jolie called with her child.
28:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we did.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We did with trials.
28:21
[SPEAKER_01]: They would take that kid so fast.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Say, oh, yeah, we're good.
28:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I say it all this time.
28:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's again, no comparison.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But my biggest grip all start around the holidays is when I go to all these treatment centers and all I see is a Christmas tree.
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say to these treatment centers, oh, so you don't take any Jewish people, right?
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, what?
28:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, see, you can't, you can't welcome everybody and not welcome everybody, you know?
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of these places still believe Jesus is the reason for the season.
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm down with that.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I love Christmas.
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Jesus and all that.
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you were seeing Jewish clients, and you don't have a manor up, like, or, like, know the...
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a sign.
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a sign.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: 50.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel seen here.
29:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it just feels or, you know, for those clients,
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: where their gay transgender you name it and we're not even acknowledging that it's pride month.
29:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
29:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, but we're like LGBTQ, we have an LGBTQ track or we're, which cracks me up, we're LGBTQ friendly.
29:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Which cracks me up?
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that we say that we're on friendly?
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we're, what is that we do to make you excited?
29:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna make stick, we're gonna make bumper stickers.
29:37
[SPEAKER_02]: LGBTQ unfriendly facility.
29:38
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what actually, actually, the reality is we should actually, that's brilliant.
29:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think, like, yeah, I was really good.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do believe that, and we joke about this because we've seen the harm.
29:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
29:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So I have seen young people go through every level of care in outpatients.
30:00
[SPEAKER_02]: PHP, IOP, RTC, long-term care, therapeutic boarding school, and they are getting harmed over and over again, and this revolving wheel when guess what could have happened the first time?
30:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I remember when I was working at visions, it was so interesting.
30:16
[SPEAKER_02]: We had this million one time of kids that were so incredibly diverse.
30:21
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there are
30:22
[SPEAKER_02]: from the south, from parts of California that were super conservative, from like rural parts of places.
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we also had a million with a few trans folks.
30:33
[SPEAKER_02]: What happens in that million from the day those kids were together to when some of them discharge was healing.
30:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That is the work.
30:42
[SPEAKER_02]: and that was beautiful.
30:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we don't see.
30:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It's people, it's like a it's like people who are from all of these different backgrounds.
30:49
[SPEAKER_02]: They have one thing that's in common and it's that they are alcoholics and addicts and that's what it was.
30:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But when we take that opportunity away and we take the learning away and in parent groups when a parent says something like I don't really feel comfortable with those two people roaming together.
31:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of saying, okay,
31:12
[SPEAKER_02]: and how do you answer that question go.
31:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I said this it we so you know at this true consensus so many parents supposedly feel like that.
31:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah in the state of so in the state of California it's actually the law people don't always follow it but it's the law to room people based on gender identity not the sex that they are assigned at birth.
31:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So we actually
31:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is amazing.
31:37
[SPEAKER_02]: We are chalking.
31:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, but I think that and we could go deeper right into the why and there's also a lot of what when you parents who have this fear.
31:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you're on the phone with them, right?
31:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, I don't feel comfortable.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Detted how do you answer that?
31:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if someone's saying I don't keep to come to I want to understand why so the first thing that I'm going to do is now to tell me tell me why well like there you know I'm scared for my kid and they're not going to feel comfortable about this and then you know what it is is you work with them very slowly and sometimes it's a gradual process meaning if there's it's their fear.
32:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And there are ways to mitigate this, we don't, we don't just want to come in hot milk because what we do, let's say there's an empty room.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be putting the trans kid in the empty room.
32:22
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what treatment centers do all the time.
32:23
[SPEAKER_02]: They isolate the trans kid instead.
32:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like if your kid doesn't feel comfortable, well, then they can stay here until they get comfortable and then they can integrate with the milieu.
32:34
[SPEAKER_02]: What I see wrong every time is that people isolate the person and who has presented with the most isolation.
32:41
[SPEAKER_01]: which is the worst thing you can do, worked.
32:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
32:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, madame.
32:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
32:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So much like we actually do, when it comes to the, you know, the, the gender process, when it comes to social intervention and potentially medical intervention, it's a journey.
32:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's quite literally a
32:59
[SPEAKER_02]: process, meaning like nothing happens overnight.
33:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so funny when people like, oh my god, like Johnny's going to get a surgery.
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, what are you even talking about?
33:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that doesn't happen.
33:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't exist misinformation, misjudication.
33:13
[SPEAKER_02]: These are the parents.
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: to where we as marketers, admissions, you know, case managers, everyone needs to understand the facts here.
33:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And where someone is on transition, right?
33:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So most of the time, too, and this is where it gets more nuanced.
33:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And just like any other kids that comes into treatment and thank you for saying this and I suggest this all the time.
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Every kid that is being assessed for
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's say not as bored.
33:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:47
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but Hannah, thank you for saying that because when it comes to this, there are nuances, right?
33:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody, if somebody who is assigned.
33:55
[SPEAKER_02]: female at birth came out two weeks ago was like, I'm now going by Steve and I'm using, you know, they them pronouns and I want to be with the guys.
34:06
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to assess that further because that person literally just came out there, they might actually not feel comfortable.
34:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We also shouldn't assume that they want to room with the sex that they're right.
34:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, with their gender identity, that person might still want to room with, you know, the female's
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know, they haven't even started their journey yet, so just because they identify now as transmasculine doesn't mean they necessarily want to room with the boys.
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
34:34
[SPEAKER_02]: What we need to understand are the different experiences.
34:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody who has for a trans girl, by the who has, you know, socially transitioned and been on blockers and then been on cross-sex hormones since puberty, they're equal.
34:49
[SPEAKER_02]: their phenotypically a girl they they've already grown they've gone to female puberty essentially right like they so so you're not going to room with the boys that would be really weird by the way that would also be how did
35:04
[SPEAKER_02]: right and that's not what we want to do either.
35:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is the misinformation.
35:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I love this statistic going we didn't talk about sports and that's fine because I think it's almost like a ridiculous topic.
35:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's the most difficult, ridiculous topic.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that you can see this because I said it to a friend of mine the other night because I've heard from some of my friends that they're athletes.
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not fair, it's not fair.
35:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what's not fair?
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What's not fair is like
35:26
[SPEAKER_01]: like was watching the playoffs and I was saying this to you the other day like when you're in Nick's fan and you're going up against a guy on the first team.
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Wendy, yeah, I'm seven to four who can touch the net.
35:37
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not fair.
35:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So how can like in competition, that's how it works.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like to then just like say, well, you know, you know,
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: trans males can't compete with it.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like, well, it's never trans males.
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always trans females because trans females, which trans females to people are still men.
35:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Therefore, they're like advantage, but exactly.
35:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
36:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
36:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm playing against Wendy.
36:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Michael Phelps.
36:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you win so much?
36:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, actually, do research into his physiology?
36:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
36:08
[SPEAKER_02]: His wingspan is VO2 maps.
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Much out there.
36:11
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not fair either, right?
36:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It's known bios, not fair.
36:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
36:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Not fair.
36:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And in these players, there's only like 10 of them, right?
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We did the numbers and that there are 10.
36:23
[SPEAKER_02]: At this point, it's probably less, because NCWA is actually cracking down.
36:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And things, they're out of 510,000 NCWA athletes.
36:34
[SPEAKER_02]: There are 10, maybe, under 10, trans athletes.
36:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know why you're not hearing about them?
36:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause they're not, when they anywhere,
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like what they're not threat so when people get so upset or like even bring that up as an argument, I'm like, I'm like, are you serious?
36:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I know it's actually sad if we we we we we I think we we joke and cope to to laughter and it's our trauma.
36:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think what's actually like really sad is that.
36:59
[SPEAKER_02]: My clients who I see who are in the teenage years and I identify as trans, they wouldn't step foot near a field because they are so scared of being bullied.
37:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you were called back to your childhood, where did you learn so much about life through play?
37:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
37:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You learn through play.
37:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You learn through being with other people on the playground play basketball playing soccer.
37:28
[SPEAKER_02]: These kids don't have that, not because they're trans, but because they've been ostracized in the background.
37:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So this kind of fallacy.
37:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, have you ever see you soccer, for example, is perfect.
37:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's co-ed.
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
37:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's covered, right?
37:42
[SPEAKER_02]: In a lot of the time, because there's no biological physiological advantage when you haven't even gone through puberty.
37:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
37:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we're really the same people that are in the treatment industry to quote unquote, help are the ones who are actually harming.
37:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is one of the places it's not only about this care, but this I would say is in the top three ways where this industry should actually be ashamed of itself.
38:09
[SPEAKER_02]: If you do not stand up for marginalized populations who are getting marginalized outside of your walls, you should be shut down.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I so agree with that.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so crazy to me like, and I have this argument.
38:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I I Jordan's a good friend of mine and I'll say it like, and what you will know about me and get to know more is I'm very outspoken and I'm kind and I am funny.
38:31
[SPEAKER_01]: but what I do not like is when people stand on this pedestal of, look at me, I got a 30 year chip and sobriety and look at us with all of our amazing carpentry jaco accreditation and we're like the best treatments in our dinner at it, but then
38:48
[SPEAKER_01]: are just so discriminatory about, you know, anything that is not white, that is not safe, that is not, you know, what they know.
38:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not treatment.
38:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not how it should go.
39:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's kind of like, it's a lot of things.
39:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we can get really into it.
39:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of like when Black Lives Matter and then everybody starts to put the black kid in the brochure.
39:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just, you know what I mean?
39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It just, to me, it's
39:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
39:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't raised that way.
39:16
[SPEAKER_01]: My mother raised me to you fight and you advocate and you love all children.
39:22
[SPEAKER_01]: No matter where they come from, no matter where they were born, no matter what their faith is, no matter the skin color, no matter anything, sexuality, gender, anything.
39:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And the episode I really want to do is kind of
39:36
[SPEAKER_01]: discuss about the difference between adolescent treatment that is good, and then this whole troubled teen behavioral modification group of facilities that in my opinion should be shut down under the guise of Christ.
39:48
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of them are like Christ centered, not all of them.
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not against faith-based treatment, but I am against anybody using the word troubled teen and also behavioral modification.
40:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Time and time again when I look at these programs and I see these kids who are going in and parents are concerned about their sexuality or their, you know, my son thought he was Alexis but we brought him back and after doing treatment there he's now back and being nicked.
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to me that is
40:16
[SPEAKER_01]: not only abuse, it is so much harm, it is neglect, but, um, so again, but I wanted to ask you when just briefly tell me when you're working with a treatment center and you start training with them, like give me like an overview a little bit of what that looks like.
40:31
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you showing them?
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we have to start from, from, from, from, you know, the first phone call.
40:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all from the first phone call because if I'm, you know, undercover boss, I can really start the first
40:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my god, I know that should be you.
40:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, if we talk about it, I'm going to make up.
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to do undercutter treatment and just go in.
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the first round.
40:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So it starts really with admissions.
40:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it starts with your website.
40:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It starts with your website.
41:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Really understanding like who you are what you stand by what your discriminatory philosophy is all right.
41:05
[SPEAKER_02]: how you, you know, and then it really is that first phone call in terms of like me as a parent.
41:10
[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm a parent of a trans kid, I want to really understand talk to me about your million.
41:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk about how you room kids.
41:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk about the training that your staff and your therapist have.
41:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you respect my child's pronouns?
41:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you respect, right?
41:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this journey.
41:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
41:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And do you have, you know, specialists that work with this or do you contract out,
41:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, really going in.
41:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we have to be training everyone from the chef to thousand person.
41:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, the more so than even, you know, the clinicians because, well, I can't even say the clinicians are licensed because that's so many these programs now that they're No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
41:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody knew how to answer it and they'd answer it so horribly, you know.
42:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
42:04
[SPEAKER_02]: We support, and it's, you know, people stumble around it.
42:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We support all people.
42:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We support all people.
42:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
42:11
[SPEAKER_02]: No matter their identity, we're going to do it.
42:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we throw out this word individualized in a treatment world all the time.
42:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
42:17
[SPEAKER_02]: We actually should be individually assessing all of their young people.
42:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we should.
42:22
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we do.
42:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't, but we should.
42:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we're going to so we're going to then go into training so let's talk about why this is important.
42:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about the miss all these miss and we probably covered like 5% of them right let's talk about how to send presents in treatment and let's here's the biggest thing.
42:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about your biases.
42:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
42:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
42:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about why this feels uncomfortable for you.
42:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It's my most, um, it's like my favorite thing to really tap into with a parent's calling or with the parent with the staff.
42:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
42:57
[SPEAKER_02]: What is making you feel uncomfortable about the conversation?
43:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
43:01
[SPEAKER_02]: What is making you feel uncomfortable about these to that CEO out there?
43:06
[SPEAKER_02]: What is making you feel uncomfortable that if you're saying we don't do that.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:11
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have decided, we are going to be doing treatment and we own a facility and we are going to help people then stay informed.
43:19
[SPEAKER_01]: and stay on top of this because it's a cop out when you say we don't do this or full not the right place.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, you're not the right place because you don't want but you're not there's like it's such a bad it's to me it's it's very telling and it's a horrible thing and and if nobody else listens to this episode, I really do hope a lot of people on our industry do hear it and I I also wish one day that we would have a licensure board that really
43:48
[SPEAKER_02]: in everything they need to be trained in, you know, and all all trans youth are looking for much like actually all youth, all youth are looking for the same thing.
43:58
[SPEAKER_02]: A great, a board no matter gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity, safety, connection, support, and the opportunity to thrive.
44:06
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
44:07
[SPEAKER_02]: The opportunity to thrive, the opportunity to be long.
44:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
44:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Most kids are going through that same thing right now.
44:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very isolating society that we live in, you know, and and and we can either meet those young people where they are and help them or we can just continue the cycle and cause more.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have an episode coming up soon with our friends Curtis and Jennifer Sawyer from Driftwood about admissions and the questions that parents need to be asking the admissions about a program because it's a major investment and a lot of parents don't know how to ask the major questions.
44:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to cover this.
44:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we let you go, and I'm going to have you back on because you're amazing, is I always say to my, well, I'm going to start saying this now to my guess, because we're called Connect Call, right?
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have this opportunity to be on the phone with the family.
44:57
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were on the phone with the parent right now, or somebody, a loved one, what would your parting words be?
45:03
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you like to leave somebody with before they get off the phone with you when it comes to transgender youth and treatment?
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: that meeting treatment like what would be some parting words for them.
45:14
[SPEAKER_02]: My parting words would just be, we are here to this author for treatment centers while going.
45:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, for the parent, it would be like, you know, I understand that this is a really scary endeavor that you're going to navigating this journey with your child, like, you're in the right place.
45:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You're doing all the right things.
45:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You are doing the best you can.
45:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't need to know everything, but this is why, you know, you have us.
45:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for trusting us in same thing with the treatment center.
45:44
[SPEAKER_02]: it's, hey, you know, we're not going to get everything 100% right all the time, but guess what, we're going to give it.
45:51
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to do the best we can.
45:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
45:53
[SPEAKER_02]: We are going to create a safe, a safe environment in space and culture.
45:58
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a culture of safety.
46:00
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't say, this is a safe space.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: That's something that's up to somebody to determine themselves.
46:05
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a culture of safety.
46:07
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to make sure that you're taken care of.
46:09
[SPEAKER_02]: right and we are going to try and we can't erase some of the negative things that this young person has dealt with out, but we can make sure that they can have a different experience with us now.
46:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
46:24
[SPEAKER_01]: All right Jordan, I've loved having you on the show.
46:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone please subscribe and then you'll get to see all the show notes and see about Jordan's info and can get in touch with him.
46:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it has been a pleasure.
46:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You are a force to be reckoned with and we are very grateful to have you.
46:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm grateful to have you in my life, but also in the treatment industry.
46:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We need more people like you.
46:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you so much for having me.
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, take care.
46:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
46:51
[SPEAKER_01]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
47:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical health professional or health care provider for personalized advice tailored to your unique needs.
47:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
47:14
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
47:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
47:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here to support you every step of the way.