Latest / It's Open with Ilana Glazer / Amanda Litman

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Amanda Litman · It's Open with Ilana Glazer

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Holy smokes.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, thank God for the conversation I just had.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: And I hope it brings you as much energy and faith in people and faith in Gen Z millennials and motivation that it brought me.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: So my guest today is Amanda Littman.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: She is the co-founder of Run for Something, a like boot camp container for young people who want to run for office.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: They have trained 250,000 young people to run for office since they started their organization in 2017, LOL on Trump's inauguration day.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: It was so energizing.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: This young lady has uh the blueprint for leadership.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: And she's come up through politics.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: She worked under Obama.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: She worked for a Democrat running in Florida, Charlie Christ, and then worked for Hillary until the bitter end, her words, and then founded Run for Something.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: And she's also the author of When We're in Charge.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: She's incredible.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: And I am just soaring off that conversation.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: I hope you love it as much as I did.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Please welcome to It's Open with Alana Glazer with my guest today, Amanda Littman.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Amanda Littman, thank you so much for joining me today.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Alana.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Tell us what Run for Something is.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: So Run for Something was born of the ashes of the 2016 election.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: We launched on Trump's first inauguration day thinking it would be really small.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: We wanted to recruit and support people who wanted to run for office.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: And in 2017, we thought maybe we'd get 100 people in the first year.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: We had a thousand people in the first week.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: As of today, we have more than a quarter million young people who've raised their hands to say they want to run.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: It is, as far as we know, the largest candidate pipeline in politics.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: We have helped elect more than 1,650, as of this week, four, but it's always growing.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh, millennials and Gen Z to state and local office across 49 states.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Dozens of our alum are now running for higher office.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, we are building the bench and changing the Democratic Party in a nutshell.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Quarter of a million?
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Holy shit.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: And you want to hear something really cool about that?
2:07
SPEAKER_00: I do.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: 80,000 of them signed up last year.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: We had more people sign up to run for office in 2025 than we did in the entirety of Trump's first term.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: The resistance, it's real.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: It's happening.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: Don't believe the haters.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: What do you think is gonna happen with the SAFE Act?
2:28
SPEAKER_00: I do not think they have the votes to pass it.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think Trump is really putting all his eggs in the wrong basket.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: I do think it is politically quite stupid of them if they try and pass it.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, not the least of which is it will really make it harder for their voters to show up to the polls.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's bad morally, it's also bad politically, but I don't think it's gonna pass.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Does that make you feel better?
2:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm thrilled.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm thrilled to hear this.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm thrilled to hear this.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: The thing to remember is that there isn't actually a single body that governs elections.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Like we don't have one national election.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: We have a national election day, but elections are administered at the state and local level.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: So state legislatures, governors, secretaries of state, city council members, county clerks, recorders of deeds.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Like there are more than 5,000 local election administrators, in fact, 35,000, I believe.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: There are thousands of local election administrators across the country who actually make elections happen.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, there isn't even a law you could feasibly pass or an executive order that you could realistically do that would then wouldn't then immediately face problems with the courts or with challenges around federalism, because there isn't a national body that administers elections.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: But isn't he they trying to federalize it?
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but they don't have the method to yet.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: There's no mechanism.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: There's no mechanism.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Like if you start to ask, okay, that's what they want to do, how do they actually do it?
3:51
SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like, you know, that meme like step one, do something, step two, question mark, step three, profit.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: They don't have a step two here, which makes me feel at least a little bit better.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, well, then my question was gonna be what do you think about the midterms?
4:05
SPEAKER_01: But if the Save Act doesn't pass, then I think what you think about the midterms is that we're gonna have some fun wins.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: I think that the opportunities are really, really big.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Like I think the special elections and the 2025 mid um off-year cycles in Virginia, in New Jersey, in New York were so good and showed us that we can win in long shot places.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we're talking hope now.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's let's fucking dive into it because the Marjorie Taylor Green filling her seat was such a fun yeah is such a great give me some examples of how hard we've swung.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: So Taylor Ramette, who's a run-for-something candidate who was running in a state senate race in Texas, he was able to flip a seat that Trump had won by, I believe, 17 points against a Republican opponent who outspent him a million to 400,000, more, two million to four hundred thousand.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Taylor was a union leader, a veteran, a machinist who like really understood the community, talked about affordability, swung that district.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable margin of victory.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Two days ago, just this week, Emily Gregory, another run for something candidate, flipped the district that includes Mar-a-Lago.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Trump voted for her by mail, or voted against her by mail, and vote endorsed her opponent.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: Trump is now represented by a Democrat in the Florida State House.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: The symbolism is just like too loud.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's really exciting.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and Marjorie Taylor Green to fill her seat.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Did you watch that race?
5:31
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't paying that close attention here.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there was like a um a Democrat who the seat was flipped, the the district was swung by 37 points.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: That sounds right.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: We have seen this.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: The average swing has been, I think, 13 or 14 points, which means one, the Republican gerrymandering that they tried to push through that diluted the power of a bunch of those districts.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you take a bunch of R plus 20 districts and you spread them out to make more R plus 10, all of a sudden you've created more battlegrounds.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm confused.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: How so you've got 10 districts, half are R plus 20, half are D plus 10.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Let's say half are R plus 20, Republican plus 20, half are Democrat plus 10.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: And in order to make more overall that are Republican, you dilute a bunch of those Democratic districts to make them like R plus, I don't know if the math here works, but like R plus eight.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: So then you make nine R plus eight districts and one D plus 50.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Now all your R plus eight districts are on the map because a swing of 13 or 14 points wipes them all out.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: They've diluted their own power by gerrymandering.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you might call it a dummy mander, is what people are calling it.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: Especially in Texas, where we've seen some of the swings among Latino voters, both in the primaries around Talo Rico and in the special elections over the last year.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: Like there is real opportunity in lots and lots of places.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Holy shit.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, can you like explain what it means to LOL run for something, but join Run for Something as a candidate needing as somebody who thinks, okay, if I had a toolbox, I could run for office.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: I could run for something.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: What does it look like to join your boot camp?
7:11
SPEAKER_01: So you sign up at runforwhat.net and you can look up what office might be available for you to run for.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: I am so slow.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: You sign up for runforwhat.net and you're like, what could I even run for?
7:22
SPEAKER_00: You can look up at your address.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, I live at 123 Main Street.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: I could run for city council, I could run for state ledge, I could run for school boards.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: Amanda, I'm gonna Jewish mommy you.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: We're both Jewish mommies, I'm gonna Jewish mommy you the whole time.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: This is fucking brilliant.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: This is fucking brilliant.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, I could run for this, I could run for that.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, copy that.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: So we get all the information to you.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: You then get invited to join the Run for Something community, which is a free online space with thousands of people in it.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: And it includes two different tracks of training.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Again, all free.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: You can do it on your own time.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: One is for if I want to run now-ish, one is if I'm thinking like a little further down the road.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: We call that our future leaders.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Slightly different curriculum, one for like writing a campaign plan, preparing a budget, thinking about your campaign message, and the other for how do I get involved more in my community?
8:11
SPEAKER_00: How do I establish my profile?
8:13
SPEAKER_00: How do I start to map out the relationships?
8:15
SPEAKER_00: You can talk to other candidates, you can talk to other people in the pipeline, you can talk to some of our alums, so people who've ran and won or ran and lost and have wisdom.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, you can also join one of our monthly calls we have where we talk through all the basic questions every first-time candidate has.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: How do I raise money?
8:31
SPEAKER_00: What if I win?
8:31
SPEAKER_00: What if I lose?
8:32
SPEAKER_00: What about security?
8:34
SPEAKER_00: How do I get access to the voter file?
8:36
SPEAKER_00: What is the voter file?
8:38
SPEAKER_01: What is the voter file?
8:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a list of all the voters in your area.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: It's very straightforward.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: But that tells you who you need to talk to.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: As you go through the campaign process and think about standing up your campaign, we have more programming, more resources for you.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Again, 100% free, available to you in your own time.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: We'll also start sending you emails and texts, inviting you to trainings that either we are doing or our partners are doing.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: You might get invited to special calls just for parents running for office or black women or people in rural communities.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: We are gonna make sure that you have every possible support system you need.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Then, once you file to get on the ballot, you apply for our endorsement.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: This is where shit gets real.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: So we wanna see your campaign plan, your budget, your win number.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: That's where we do a value screen.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Wait, wait, wait, win number?
9:20
SPEAKER_00: So, how many voters do you need to show up to you to win?
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Value screen?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: That's where we look at like, are you pro-choice?
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Are you pro-equality?
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Are you pro-tolerance?
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Are you pro-reducing gun violence?
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Are you pro climate change is real?
9:30
SPEAKER_00: And we have a responsibility to do something about it.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and let me just step back one second.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: So this is a nonpartisan.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: So up until now, it's nonpartisan or bipartisan.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: Once we hit endorsements, that's where we get really political.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Political, and I will say that we have a very tight on values, flexible on policy mentality.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: One second.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: I I'm I'm you're blown right past me.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: I know I'm just one second.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: So it's nonpartisan, but but is run for something uh a nonpartisan org, or is it C3 and C4?
9:59
SPEAKER_00: So we have a C three, a C4, and then we have a non-federal pack that allows us to work with people from all the way through to like maybe I might want to run someday to in elections now and then again afterwards.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: So you can cover all the basics.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: We can hold people's hand through the process through different entities in a way that is fully legally compliant.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: Copy that.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, then then shit gets real because you're like, we may not endorse you.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Just because you came through our training doesn't mean we're gonna endorse you.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: What are your values?
10:29
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, this is why the party question came up.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: You're like, you know, just uh as myself being in this work for 10 years, I'm like, you know, I've done very uh partisan work, cheat sheets for the voting booth, but for Dems and progressives within the Democratic Party.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: But it's a point at which authoritarianism um is uh trying so hard to flood our zones and really flood the system, such that I'm like, you know, at times I don't even necessarily feel represented by the Democratic Party.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, nonpartisan campaigns and ways that I'm organizing are appealing to me more.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: So you're saying pro-issues, pro-climate, pro-values, pro-values.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: And like, I think that's really important to hold true because we work in all 50 states in all different kinds of races.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: So the way that you talk about, say, being pro-gun safety for a New York City council race is going to be very different than as you talk about it for an Anchorage School Board or Iowa City State Legislature or Oklahoma City.
11:30
unknown: Wow.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: But if we are tight on values and flexible on how those values show up on policy, we can work with folks in all those kinds of situations.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: And we have.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: I'll give you a good example here.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: In November 2025, on the same election day, we helped win a seat on the Atlanta City Council with Kelsey Bond, a DSA affiliated candidate, Democratic Socialist affiliated candidate, a renter, tenant organizer, uh, uses they them pronouns, was running particularly on making Atlanta more of a green place, better transit, uh, better place for workers, incredible young leader.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Same night, we also helped elect Andrew Harbaugh.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: Andrew Harbaugh is a former Republican who left the party after January 6th.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: He's a sports journalist, so he was in it for Trump won.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Left the party after January 6th, became a Democrat, uh, in part because he has two kids in the public school system, one of whom is special needs, and he had started seeing how the public school system was either failing to support his kid or rising to the occasion in equal measure, but needed more.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: The Department of Education cuts really affected his family.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: So he decided to run for Clarion Borough Council, which is like a local office in this county in very rural Pennsylvania.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: This is a county that Trump won 70-30.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: Andrew flipped the seat.
12:49
unknown: Oh my God.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Cool as hell.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I am so excited about, among many things, for the 2026 midterm, is because at the end of this year, the party is gonna look different.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: The people who define it and who shape what it sounds like, what it means, what it feels to be a Democrat in the United States this year are gonna be different.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: I am so like relieved and inspired and excited, amazing.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, it feels um it's interesting.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: You're like straddling uh progressive grassroots organizing and the democratic, the institution of Democrats.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: But I have been one of the most vocal people in the Democratic Party calling for every Democrat over the age of 70 to make this their last term.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: And I mean all of them.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: How do you call that out?
13:34
SPEAKER_00: I wrote Not Bad in the Daily Beast about February of last year.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: I have been on news shows, I've been out and about, I've been forcing in in conversations uh with some of these elected officials.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: It's uncomfortable.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: And also, this moment, this crisis we're in is too urgent to care about hurting some people's feelings.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's talk more about this.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: So are people like it's ages?
13:56
SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, which like maybe, but also it is not like there isn't an incredible bench of leaders ready to rise.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: We are seeing this in the states where um senators and mostly senators are stepping down.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: You're seeing incredibly interesting new leaders step up.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: The problem here in a lot of these states is that the institutions and the old guard protect themselves.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: No one else is gonna have a conversation about why they need to leave.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: We have to do it publicly, we have to do it aggressively, and we have to do it in a way that creates space for when they do leave, we celebrate them.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank goodness for these leaders who are stepping aside and understanding that they are putting party and country above their own egos.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: Holy shit.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: It's also just like peak boomer.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: It's it's so boomer.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I have a couple of like offshoot questions off that.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: So, first of all, has anybody stepped down because of your pressure?
14:48
SPEAKER_00: I've definitely seen leaders step down over the last year, uh, at least a half dozen or so.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: And I will say that the conversation has gone from you ageist monster to yeah, everyone needs to be talking about this.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, I just saw this morning Jamel Bowie, incredible columnist in the New York Times, had an eight-minute video about ending the gerontocracy in the Democratic Party.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: It has moved from thing that I got yelled at online about posting to thing we're talking about in the New York Times.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Hi, jumping into our regularly scheduled programming to share a little story.
15:22
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18:28
SPEAKER_01: As frustrated as I am with the Democratic Party, I almost think it's like a right-wing talking point to make us infight.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Whereas I'm like, but these people are, these people who are elected, yeah, I don't like a lot of them, but a lot of them are killing themselves to keep democracy having a pulse uh while it's being strangled, literally fucking strangled.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's just because you turn it into action.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: I think you you cannot like the Democratic Party.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: I often don't like being a professional Democrat.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not that fun.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: But I know that what we are doing, if we do this right, and if we do this for long enough, it will change what it means to be a Democrat.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: And right now, that's the most powerful tool we have.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, we need a real opposition party.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: We need a real party that has a vision for what could be possible, that has ambitions and ideas and energy.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: One of my personal frustrations with the like progressive versus moderate versus centrist argument that often happens within the Democratic Party is that that's not how voters live.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: That's not how normal people think about politics.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: They think about politics as I have problems.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: I want politicians to solve them or get the fuck out of my way.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: So what does a new democratic vision for, say, federal aid look like?
19:45
SPEAKER_00: What does a new department of education look like?
19:47
SPEAKER_00: What does our veterans program look like?
19:49
SPEAKER_00: What do our scientific research programs look like?
19:51
SPEAKER_00: We get a chance to reimagine it.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: And we get a chance to say, you know what, the way we did things yesterday is not gonna be the way we do them tomorrow because the way they are today sucks.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: And that's like the candidates you're you're starting to track.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: That's the candidates we're training.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: That's the folks we have now running for higher office.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: That's what the future needs to be.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you also wrote a book.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: When we're in charge, The Next Generation's Guide to Leadership.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Tell me about the experience of writing a book after so, so um, it's like I want to say aggressively, but like so um working with people, so many people and thinking about individuals, but you're thinking about the individuals and their constituents.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, what was the experience of writing a book?
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Did you have a like a partner, a ghostwriter?
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Nope, just me and my computer.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was so fun.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: So let me tell you how the book came to be.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: So in 2022, I started hearing from reporters who were like, hey, it seems like a lot of the millennial candidates you've worked with are making headlines.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: Like we've got Zoe Zephyr, the first trans state lawmaker in Montana.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: We've got Mallory McMorrow in Michigan going viral for a speech on the floor.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: We've got the Justins in Tennessee getting kicked out of the chamber.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, we didn't work with them, but you know, it's part of a broader cohort of folks.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes, the Justins, the Nashville, what was their Nashville three?
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Nashville three, Memphis three, yeah.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: Nashville three, I think.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Amazing young leaders who were entering structures and systems that were not built for people like them and saying, you know what, I'm gonna change it.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: And I got asked, like, what do these folks have in common?
21:19
SPEAKER_00: I started thinking about a little bit more.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: And I realized that in particular, millennials and Gen Z have a very different relationship to power, to leadership, to work, to ambition, to authenticity, to performance of authenticity, to all of these things.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't just in politics, how I feel as an executive, as a manager, as a leader.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I was hearing this from my peers at law firms and medical institutions, principals, about how they felt like the boomer bosses who had come before them had not given them a playbook for how to succeed in this moment.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: So, what when we're in charge is, is the playbook that I wish I had when I was starting Run for Something a decade ago.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's About what does it mean to lead in this moment that is both effective but also treats people well?
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Because I reject the premise that you have to be an asshole to be a good boss.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: I talked with more than 130 leaders, you included, for this book, to really understand like, what does it mean to be an authentic leader in this moment?
22:20
SPEAKER_00: And why is this idea that you should bring your full self to work with you really setting people up to fail?
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Because work is not the right container for your full self.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: How do you perform, and it is a performance, responsible authenticity in a way that serves your team, your end goal, and your mental health.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, Amanda Litman.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: All at the same time it's so hard.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Amanda Litman, Amanda Litman, Amanda Litman, incredible.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: So you liked writing that so much that you are writing another project right now.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: This is my so my 2026 New Year's resolution.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: I like to set ambitious resolutions.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, last year was have people over for dinner every Saturday, which we can talk about.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: But this year is write a romance novel because I'm afraid that I can't write fiction.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: So I like to do things I'm afraid of because I should prove myself wrong.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm trying to write a romance novel.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm like 20,000 words in.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: It's not bad.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: 20,000 words.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Something is better than nothing.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: How much is that of a I think a romance novel needs to be like 70 or 80,000?
23:17
SPEAKER_00: So a one-night stand?
23:21
SPEAKER_00: Do you what?
23:21
SPEAKER_00: It starts with a one-night stand, as all good romance novels should.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm in.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Um do you know the whole plot?
23:27
SPEAKER_00: I have a vague idea of where it's going.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: I know where it ends.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: And the nice thing about genre is like you know the beats.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: And I'm a big romance reader.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: So like I've really sunk my brain into what the structure should be.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Do you okay?
23:39
SPEAKER_01: I like recently learned about Fairy Smut.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Are you into it?
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh I've read all of Sarah J.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Moss's full ouvois.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: I've read four.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: Is this Fairy Smut?
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Fairy Smut.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Court of Thorn and Roses is like the big one.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Court of Thorn and Roses.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: I saw that with two other books on the subway, and I was like, what the heck of that?
23:56
SPEAKER_00: If you ever just need to like turn your brain off and then on, um, it'll do it.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: Five books.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Read the first two and then decide how you feel.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm curious.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm so curious.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm um very smut curious.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: That's a really good place to be in.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: Um so you mentioned um setting up, uh making sure um having a goal of having people over every Saturday night.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: So you're a Jew, like me.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: We're Jewish women.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: You and me, just sitting here Jewish women.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, how do you feel that your Jewish identity has played into your, like, I mean, hunger and thirst for political progress?
24:35
SPEAKER_00: It's such a good question.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think for me, foundational to Judaism is that you take steps to make the world a better place.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: I also think a lot about how I had a rabbi once when I was in high school who came to a class that I was in and said, You think this the symbol of Judaism is the sixth, like the star of David?
24:54
SPEAKER_00: It's not.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: The symbol of Judaism is a question mark.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: It's our job as a people is to question.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: To question each other, to question the people in power, to question why and how, and to really understand that it is not a sin, it is not a problem, it is not dangerous to ask.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: And when I think about what I do now is to like, why why do we do it this way?
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Why are the people in power the people in power?
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: What what if different?
25:19
SPEAKER_00: What if better?
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: And like that's a very Jewish thing to do, I think.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's talk about.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, we were just chatting the other day about enjoying Zorron's policies.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Mayor Momdani, Mom Donna Stan.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, universal childcare, universal 2K, pre-K, we're loving it.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Can I tell you something really embarrassing?
25:37
SPEAKER_00: The press conference where he announced that made me cry.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's not that's not embarrassing.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: That fully resonates with me.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: I like it, like makes me emotional.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Like to see an elected official that you help elect, then one, keep a promise, and two, do something that I know will change lives and transform the city.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: It is like restoring faith in a system that I have often felt is so broken.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: And I have my daughter's in 3K now.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: She's in a free 3K program.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: It has transformed our financial circumstances in like a very meaningful way.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: And to watch him do that, like within the first couple weeks of his administration, it's like, oh, right, this is why I do elections.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: This is why I do I don't do it to win, although winning is fun.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: I do it because when you win, if you do it right, you can govern and you can transform places.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, we elect someone to, you know, pass childcare and then he does it.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: And then maybe I have to have another kid now.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, I that's a real question that we like now have to grapple with that.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: You're you're you're considering it because it's become affordable.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: Because affordability changes my family planning.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: And our country, while the population rate uh or the population growth rate is going down, you know, that actually makes a difference here.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: We can actually grow our population if we're able to afford having kids.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: And whether or not we decide to have a third kid, it's like so amazing that we can even have the conversation.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Because for a long time, I was like, well, we can't afford more daycare for these kids.
27:03
unknown: Wow.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: Like it is transformative.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: That is so, so exciting.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, is it just it's just the best?
27:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm obsessed with it.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: I just love it.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: I love it so more than I much more than I thought.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: It is, it feels so dumb to talk about motherhood because it's so cliche and so stupid and so beautiful.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: And I just take so much joy in my daughter's.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: The only dumb thing is calling it dumb.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: It's the fucking best.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: It's the best.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: No, it's the fucking best.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm not even saying motherhood's the best, but actually taking the joy and pleasure in it is the best.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, a a single friend, her taking joy and pleasure in that is the best.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
27:40
SPEAKER_01: No, tell me what you love about it.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: I love watching the baby learn to talk.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: So my 18-month-old is starting to learn how to speak, and she's learned her sister's name and the way that she lights up when she sees her sister and just sprints across the room to hug her.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: The way that they want to read books, the way that they just like, but like watching her little brain piece things together and experience the world for the first time, watching her like learn how to be a human.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is magical.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Magic.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Fucking magical.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: I just I take so much joy in my daughters.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: I take so much hope from them.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: I also like I just want to eat them, you know, like them back into my body.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Put them into my body.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: It's so visceral.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's insane.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I think that's been everything.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm so energized and um motivated and held by you and your brilliant mind and heart and body, the way that you're putting all that magic into the world in an organized way.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful for this conversation and for you and your work, Amanda Littman.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: I am grateful for you and everything you have done for Run for Something over the years and for the broader movement.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: It is so powerful to see people use their platforms for good.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: And you are so smart about it, which is so rare.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Let's um, let's like really do a project together after the midterms.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: I would love that.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: The gerontocracy thing, it's already cracking me up.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Get out! You know what I mean?
29:11
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna create the best nursing home in America.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna be the United States Senate.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, that just felt so good.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: Let's fucking go, United States of America.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: America 250, bitch.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: America 250 means the midterms, leaves us with a younger, fresher, horny Democratic Party than we've ever seen before.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, okay.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: So I want to thank today all the people who helped me make this conversation happen.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Annika Carlson, David Roughlin, Glennis Bihar, Kelsey Kylie, and Madeline Kim.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: I want to thank the people who made it look and sound so good, from Rebecca O'Neill to Kevin Deming to Lexa Krebs.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: I want to thank Raymond Ventura for his incredible branding and graphics, as well as opening musical sting, sting, stang.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: I want to thank Tova Liebowitz, who's our editor, and he's just a fucking boss.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: And I want to thank the band Don Her for this outro music.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: They came out publicly, and it's my brother's band.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: My brother and uh Derek Nuro and Jimmy Hines, maybe it's fucking Smithtown, it's Long Island up in the house.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: Um and guess what?
30:18
SPEAKER_01: This show is only made by human beings because we fucking love that human magic.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: And this has been a Star Peaks production.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Never forget it.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Um if you like this show, like and subscribe in any and all the ways that you can, because it really does make a difference.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, see you next time.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say God bless, and I love ya.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Bye!