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insightsoftware President Jennifer Warawa on How AI is Changing the Office of the CFO · The Diary of a CFO

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I'll drop the link in the show notes. Welcome
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back to the Diary of a CFO podcast. I'm your
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host, Wassia Kamon, and each week we explore how
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top finance leaders help build high performance
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teams. partner with CEOs and board and lead through
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growth and transformation without burning out
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in the process. Our guest today is Jennifer Warawa.
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She's a transformative executive with over 25
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years of leadership experience, driving growth.
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innovation and cultural change globally. She's
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currently the president of Insight Software and
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her resume reads like a master class in transformation.
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From leading Quick Feed North America through
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major growth and expansion to holding multiple
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global executive roles at Sage for over 12 years,
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she has built a career at the intersection of
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innovation and impact. Jennifer has been recognized
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as one of the top 25 most powerful women in accounting
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seven years running and was named the accounting
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today's top 100 most influential people for nearly
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a decade. I've been trying to do this one year.
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Okay. She's a sought after keynote speaker known
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for being refreshingly candid about leadership,
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resilience, and what meaningful change actually
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looks like in practice. Welcome to the show,
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Jennifer. Thank you very much. That's, that was
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a lot, a lot to live up to there. Oh my gosh.
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But it's your story. It's, it's amazing. And
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so I really wanted to start with that. So sound
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is your story. How did you end up in this world
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of accounting software and now working so closely
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with CFOs? Yeah, that's a, it's a great question.
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You know, I, I look back to when I was, you know,
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in high school and finishing high school and
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those years when you think about, what do I want
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to do when I grow up? If that's the way to say
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it. And at the time, as I was evaluating what
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that looked like, my dad's in -house accountant
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actually ended up leaving his business. And he
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said, well, why don't you go into accounting?
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And I was like, accounting? That doesn't sound
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very fun. And so I decided to go down that path.
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And as I started on the journey and as I got
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kind of set into college, I fell in love with
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this telling the story of the numbers and the
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data. And it actually ended up with me starting
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my own accounting and consulting business. And
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I think it was exciting because it wasn't about
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debits and accredits or financial statements.
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It was about having a, making sense of all of
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the data that was available to business owners
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and having it. presented to them in a way where
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it told a story and it helped them figure out,
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how am I going to get from where I am today to
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where I want to go in the future? And that was
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so fun and so exciting. When I moved into the
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software world, so when I had my own firm, I
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was a partner at Sage Software and ended up moving
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over to work with them directly. And then eventually,
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of course, here I am at Insight Software. I've
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always looked at it through that lens. What does
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in person need that's trying to run the business?
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What story are their financial statements telling?
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What decisions does the data tell them need to
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be made? And I think I've always found that exciting
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and empowering. And for people who are like his
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finance or, or being a CFO, I think it's incredibly
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exciting. And if you tell the story in the right
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way, it's like, what a great career choice. Wow.
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So it's so fascinating that you went from accounting,
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like when we typically think about accounting,
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debits and credits, to software. It's like two
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opposite worlds, it feels like. But now you spend
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25 years in that office of the CFO ecosystem,
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bringing the systems together with the people
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side. And so what has fundamentally changed about
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the CFO role over those two decades? So much
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has changed. Oh my goodness. I think about even
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during my time at Sage when I'd be in the market
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and meeting with accountants, like I can have
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the beginning of that chapter and then 12 years
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later and how much change there was. And now
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that level of change is actually happening in
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a much more compressed timeframe. So change is
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happening incredibly rapidly. I think what, what's
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changed the most is probably the expectation
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of the CFO. And I think they, they used to need
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the data. Steward, the steward of the numbers,
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close the books, make sure that compliance is
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being adhered to. Provide your core that I almost
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think about them as, you know, kind of a function
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that stayed in their lane. So they were, they
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were kind of on the side of the business and
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now they're in the business. I think today's
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CFO is kind of a strategic co -pilot to the CEO.
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They're often a technology decision maker. They're
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a talent leader. and they're someone who has
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the ability to translate uncertainty into a plan.
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So they're really a partner to the business versus
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a functional area that's on the side. When I
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think about what hasn't changed, I think about
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the fundamentals of trust. So the board still
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needs to believe in the numbers and the CEO still
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needs to believe in the forecast. And all the
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technology in the world doesn't replace the credibility
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that CFOs build through integrity, consistency,
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accuracy. And I think that even in a world where
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we're heavily powered by AI, that's not going
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to change. Agree, agree. And as a CFO role has
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changed, like you said, in how now they're no
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longer that back office person, like they're
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really at the forefront of the business. Do you
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feel like the people in the system supporting
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the CFO has kept up with those changes? Probably
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not just enough. So I think with all the evolution
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of the CFO, even over the last decade, a lot
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of the systems and talent development models,
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if you will, are still catching up to where the
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role was maybe even five years ago, let alone
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where it is today. You look at really sophisticated
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finance teams that are running strategic analysis
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in spreadsheets. It's like, you know, I remember
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like a decade ago, people were like, oh, Excel
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is going to go away. It's still, it's used every
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day by accountants. And so they're doing a sophisticated
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analysis and spreadsheets and the same spreadsheets
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that the company was maybe a tenth the size they
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are today. So we've got ERP systems that were
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implemented years ago that have so much technical
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debt that they're slowing down the business rather
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than enabling it. And we've got finance talent
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that's been hired and in some cases are coming
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out of school, they're forward thinking and they're
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using systems. that are, that are archaic. We
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actually have seen a recent study where, you
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know, accounting students or the next generation
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accountants will actually turn down a job because
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the systems that are being used inside the business
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are inside the firm. And that's a, that's a big
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shift. Wow. They're like, we don't want to deal
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with like your old school stuff. Absolutely.
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Yeah, absolutely. Wow. And do you think AI will
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help elevate the teams and systems so that they
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can finally catch up? to the demands of the role
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of the CFO? Yeah, I think that AI has the potential
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to be transformative. I think there's still some
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skepticism around, is this a lot of hype? And
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where is it practical? So I think being able
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to get finance teams to understand the practical
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applications of AI. And when you think about
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where there's so much time that's consumed on
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a finance team, think about data gathering, reconciliation,
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repetitive reporting cycles. And AI has the ability
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to compress all of those. And when you do that,
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it can free up human capacity for more strategic
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things like analysis for judgment for the actual
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work that requires a human to be involved. And
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I think that's significant. I think it's really
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important to be careful because AI elevates what
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already works. So when you think about, you know,
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it amplifies, it's already there. So if your
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team is. Yeah, working with data that's reliable,
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AI can be an accelerant, but if the data is not
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reliable, they're going to be disappointed. And
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so that's really, that's really important. It
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doesn't fix the problems that exist in the data
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today. Yeah. And so what would you say are some
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of the things CFOs need to be aware of in that
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AI journey, right? Because I know you made a
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point that if a process is broken, AI just does
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the broken faster, right? And AI is just simplifying
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the issues we have. So what would you say is
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a good roadmap? Because I feel like there is
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a lot of pressure now on CFOs and finance there
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to implement AI. Like, I want AI. Like, I want
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ketchup on my fries. So what would you say are
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some of the things I need to be aware of or some
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type of a roadmap to get there and do it the
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right way? Yeah, I think the first thing probably
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is data integrity. If you don't trust your data
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today, then AI is just going to give you confident,
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fast, wrong answers. And so I think that's more
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dangerous than slow wrong answers because it
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looks like it has this level of authority where
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people are like, this must be right. And if you
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don't have data integrity, it's not right. So
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that's it. That's a challenge for sure. Asking
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the CFOs. Do you have a single source of the
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truth? Do your systems talk to each other or
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are there people that are manually bridging the
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gaps in these spreadsheets as an example? I think
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the other, the other thing that we see a lot
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of is around process discipline. You know, what
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are the processes today? Not what a CFO thinks
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they are, but what are people actually doing?
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Like how are you leveraging that process math?
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And then, and then figuring out how do you standardize
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before you can automate? And then once you have
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the automation, you can apply AI. And so I think
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that that sequencing is really important, but
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I think sometimes you will just want to jump
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to AI. Like AI will solve the problem. The process
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is broken today. AI can fix it. It's still the
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process. They're still doing those manual steps.
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So making sure that that is in place, I think
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is foundational. Wow. And so when you think about
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bringing AI to an organization, I love how you
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say you start with data integrity. you ask the
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right question to make sure the processes that
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you think are in place are actually in place,
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and not a lot of band -aids. Now, how do you
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think you can bring the teams along? Because
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there's typically two camps. There's the people
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who are excited about AI. They want AI, too,
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because they used to have GPT and other things.
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And then you have people that are scared or skeptical
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about AI, maybe will take their jobs. How do
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you think leaders can talk to both groups and
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bring the whole team along in that journey? Yeah,
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it's a good question. Certainly one that is top
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of mind for a lot of people and it actually slows
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down change. I've met with a number of people
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from the office of the CFO. They're like, we
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have a really good process today. I don't think
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we need AI. I'm doing it well already. And they're
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just worried once AI comes in, their job goes
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away. I do think that the jobs that are more
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at risk of going away are the ones where someone's
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not using AI, to be honest. It's like, well,
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if you're doing things in the old school way,
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your value becomes less than if you're leveraging
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AI to make smarter decisions. So I actually think
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there's more risk in not adopting AI. For the
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people that are scared, I don't dismiss the fear.
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I don't think that it's not unfounded. There
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are roles that are going to change. My role has
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significantly changed because of AI. But historically,
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every wave of technology and finance shifted
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what people did. So when you think about moving,
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you know, from DOS to Windows or on -prem to
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cloud, those were big significant shifts in the
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way that finance teams worked, but it never ever
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eliminated the need for smart people to make
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good judgment. So I think, you know, when I'm
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talking to people in a finance function, I'll
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say, what do you, what do you want to be known
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for? If the answer is, you know, I want to be
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known for the person who pulls the data, which
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is almost never the answer. Let's know what people
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want to be known for. But that's a very vulnerable
12:18
position. If the answer is, I'm a person who
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interprets the data and I help people make better
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business decisions, that's a much more valuable
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position. So I think that AI makes you more powerful
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in that role. I think that in the excited champ,
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there's people who just want to jump in and go.
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They're enthusiastic and they're like, let's
12:38
just put our foot on the gas and go. I say curb
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the enthusiasm a little bit and turn that enthusiasm
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into learning because there is a lot of learning.
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And I even think about how we leveraged AI a
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month ago is different than how we do it today.
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Like so much has changed. I think about a lot
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and how much has changed in 30 days. And so that
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learning is so important. So enthusiasm without
13:02
learning is a challenge. And then just really
13:05
making sure that no one thinks AI is magic. So
13:09
like when people are excited, don't think about
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this as a kind of a silver bullet. It has limitations.
13:15
There are places where human judgments are irreplaceable.
13:19
You need the human in the loop. And so I think
13:22
that, you know, you want leaders that are enthusiastic,
13:25
but also rigorous and making sure that all of
13:28
those foundational pieces are in place. Yeah,
13:31
and I like how you mentioned that human element.
13:34
I wanted to spend a little more time on it when
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you mentioned having the human in the loop. What
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are some of the things that people have to realize
13:41
you will always need a human to make X decision
13:45
or to do X things? Like what are some of the
13:47
things you've seen in your role, especially at
13:50
Inside Software? Yeah, I think when I look at
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where humans play such an important role, there's
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so much context right now that a human can provide.
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AI is getting better at providing it, but there's
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all of this business context and how do you make
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smart decisions based on what AI is giving you
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and telling you like, you can assimilate, you
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know, so much more data. Like I think, but when
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I started this role now, so it's, I haven't even
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been a year and how much more data I had at my
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fingertips and how much faster I'm getting it.
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That's amazing. But then I have to assimilate
14:25
all that data and say, how do we turn that into
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a strategy? And that's still actually me. I have
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the business context. I'm the one sitting down
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with the customers. I know what's going on in
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the market. And I think over time AI will get.
14:37
better at that context, but sitting across the
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table from a customer or a user of your solutions
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or the customer or client of an accountant, you're
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not going to be able to replace that face to
14:49
face, but AI should make you smarter. So I think
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it's about figuring out how do I leverage it
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in a way where I add more value to the conversation,
14:58
regardless of what my role is. And that's where
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the human element is so important. You know,
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I think back to when I was talking about the
15:04
beginning of my career, Yeah, people already
15:07
had access to financial statements. They knew,
15:10
I said, okay, I see my income statement. I see
15:12
my balance sheet. I have no idea what that means.
15:14
And so being able to step in and kind of interpret
15:16
and say, you have a lot of data here. Let's talk
15:19
about what this practically means for your business.
15:22
That role is becoming significantly more important
15:25
as we move forward. Yeah. And as that role becomes
15:28
more important, how do you think actual finance
15:32
professional and accounting professional as it
15:34
will have more time? because AI will help them
15:37
do more. How do you think they need to upgrade
15:42
how they think or upscale themselves or learn
15:45
new things to adapt and use that new time they
15:48
will have more effectively as business partners?
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Well, when I look at, and I always look at what
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do I want from our finite team, you know, as
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I'm leading my areas in the business, what would
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I like to be able to get? And I think the more
16:02
that they can have the context understanding
16:05
of the business, the better. So they're not coming
16:07
in saying, you know, here's your financial statements,
16:09
because my next question is always why. So I
16:12
see that this is down year over year. Why? I
16:15
see that, you know, our margins have increased
16:18
here. Why? And so kind of curious people in the
16:22
finance function that want to understand the
16:24
why, they don't want to just provide the information
16:26
to the business, but they really want to understand
16:28
the business and get the business context makes
16:31
them an incredibly valuable partner. So I think
16:34
just being curious, learning the context, knowing
16:37
what it is we're trying to do and being able
16:40
to come with the why and the insights is hugely
16:42
valuable. It saves me from having to get to that.
16:45
If someone in finance comes to me with, here's
16:48
what we've seen and here's why it looks like
16:50
it's happening, it gets me to a decision and
16:53
an action faster. And it saves me having to do
16:56
that. So it makes a finance person so much more
16:59
valuable. Wow. And so now I'm also curious because
17:03
you move from, you know, accounting and finance
17:05
to now president and over operations. And so
17:08
I'm curious now from your seat, when you look
17:11
back at finance, what are some of the things
17:14
that you like? Okay, we did this wrong. We thought
17:16
it was going to help the CEO. We thought it was
17:17
going to help the president, but we keep doing
17:19
the same thing wrong from your seat. And what
17:23
are some of the things you wish your financing
17:25
or finance function in general will realize about
17:29
helping the business? Yeah, I mean, I think when
17:33
you look back, I ever want to look back and say,
17:36
Oh, I did so many things wrong or would have
17:38
done them differently. I think being able to
17:42
I don't think I anticipated how long change would
17:45
take in the finance and accounting space. Like
17:48
I think even when you looked at the early days
17:51
of cloud, as an example, it's like, okay, well,
17:53
this is going to be a, you know, a couple of
17:54
year trend they share. You have been saying back
17:56
to big data and that was a term, you know, that
17:59
was a term that was used. People are like, how
18:00
do I take advantage of big data in a smaller
18:03
company? Now every company has access to big
18:06
data through AI. And so I think the, what I probably.
18:11
thought was, hey, this is going to, all of the
18:13
firms and all of the finance functions will move
18:16
quickly because this just makes logical sense.
18:18
It's been a very long transition. So I think
18:22
moving faster than the market is the huge competitive
18:25
advantage. So as we're looking at AI and I think
18:28
there's a tendency for finance teams to look
18:30
around at other finance teams and say, well,
18:32
they're moving at, you know, they're moving at
18:34
this speed. We're moving, you know, maybe a little
18:36
bit faster. That's not what's going to give you
18:38
the competitive advantage as a finance leader
18:41
or in a company. It's how do we move faster than
18:44
the market? So I wish, you know, I wish I would
18:46
have done that. I think I thought the market
18:47
would move faster overall and it didn't. And
18:50
it's still, it's still kind of behind. I think
18:53
the other one is how do you really leverage that
18:57
big data? Like how do you overlay all the information
19:00
you get from your ERP system or your finance
19:03
data? with intelligent insights about your customers
19:07
and sales and all the different things you are
19:09
going on in your business. Because if you're
19:11
just telling the story based on the data that
19:13
comes from finance, you're missing the rest of
19:15
the picture. And so how do you start to integrate
19:18
different data points? And I wish I would have
19:21
got to that earlier. It's hard. You know, earlier
19:24
in my career, you didn't have the tools and the
19:25
systems. Those were only available to really
19:27
large companies. Now they're available to everyone,
19:30
but not everyone is using them. Let's take a
19:32
quick break to talk about a problem most financing
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face. You spend hours wrestling with data, building
19:37
a report manually, and by the time you are done,
19:40
the insights are outdated. That's where today's
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attend part one of their free webinar series
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titled Data is Power on March 31st. Visit insightssoftware
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.com slash data is power to register and transform.
20:11
how your finance team operates. I'll also drop
20:14
the link in the show note. Now let's get back
20:16
to our episode. Oh, that, that last one is so
20:20
powerful because, um, we, you know, in accounting
20:23
and finance, we tend to just take the information
20:26
from the accounting system, from the ERP when
20:29
there is so much context, like you said, that
20:32
can be gathered from the CRM that can be gathered.
20:35
Like you can have those lagging and leading indicators
20:39
in one place. So in terms of tools and systems,
20:44
what are some of the things you think can help
20:45
teams, especially in smaller companies? Like
20:48
you said, because there's so much that is available
20:51
to large enterprise, but then you think about
20:54
small to medium sized businesses, we feel like,
20:57
okay, we don't know where to go. So curious to
20:59
hear your experience there as well. Yeah, it's
21:03
hard for people to figure out where to start.
21:06
So they're looking at companies that have embraced
21:08
AI or technology. you know, from end to end and
21:12
they're like, I just don't have the resources
21:14
or the capacity or the people to be able to do
21:16
that. So how do you, how do you pick somewhere
21:19
and start somewhere? And I think anyone that
21:21
starts somewhere will be further ahead in, you
21:25
know, by the end of 2026. And if they wait and
21:27
say, I got to do it all at once. And so I'll
21:29
always encouraging smaller companies. They're
21:32
like, I don't know where to start. It's like,
21:33
just pick something, pick somewhere and say,
21:35
I'm going to start here. We're going to automate
21:37
what we can. We're going to leverage AI to get
21:39
better insights. I, I want to think about what
21:43
are the technology solutions and the tools that
21:46
are going to help me look out the windshield
21:49
instead of the rear view mirror. So I've looked
21:52
at, you know, financial statements and the history
21:54
and what got us here, but what's going to get
21:56
us ahead in the future. And it is that, you know,
21:59
multiple data sources coming together, giving
22:01
you the context for how you got to where you
22:05
are and then where do you need to go in the future?
22:07
So. I think it's starting somewhere. You don't
22:10
have to do everything at once, but picking somewhere
22:12
and going deep can have such a meaningful impact.
22:16
Wow. And that's some of the things like, at least
22:18
at ACE we're trying to do and, you know, using
22:21
the, the systems that we already have. And we've
22:24
seen a lot more, you know, systems embed AI in,
22:28
so it's like a... I would say a more comfortable
22:31
environment. Cause you're already in like, like
22:33
Excel and co -pilot, right? Like you already
22:35
in the environment that you've been operating
22:38
in. And so you start, you know, doing your baby
22:40
steps with AI, but I agree. You definitely have
22:43
to start somewhere. Yeah. And I do think that
22:45
Microsoft and co -pilot and the AI that's embedded
22:49
in the tools with accountless use every day.
22:51
I think that's made a huge impact because there
22:53
are already trusted solutions that have been
22:55
around for a long time. And so when they start
22:58
to. That's a good place to get their feet wet
23:00
and start thinking about what that could look
23:03
like. And then it can, it can grow from there.
23:05
Oh yeah. Cause I feel I was just having a call
23:07
yesterday. We're talking about Excel and he was
23:10
like, Excel is our comfort food. Like we, we,
23:12
we hold on to Excel. So as much as we can embed
23:16
power into it is always great. It's always good.
23:20
Yeah. Our son is in college and he is taking
23:23
an Excel course and he's like, I don't like,
23:25
am I even going to use this? I'm like. All I
23:27
can tell you is I use it every day. Like I don't,
23:29
I don't even know, but I guess there's jobs where
23:31
you won't use it, but I can tell you it is like,
23:34
it becomes a staple. Like it's just, there's
23:37
so many applications. So. Yes. Yes. There is
23:40
no way to, to, especially if you're doing anything
23:43
numbers, um, you will deal with Excel. Yes, absolutely.
23:47
And so when you think about AI in general, what's
23:50
one risk around AI that you think is underplayed
23:53
and what is something that you think, um, is
23:56
probably overhyped when it comes to it. I know
23:59
you mentioned thinking it's magic, but I'm curious
24:02
about a risk in particular that you think people
24:04
may not be thinking enough about. I think there's
24:08
a lot of tendency to rely on the output, and
24:12
I think there's times when that is okay, when
24:16
you're, you know, if you're asking AI, what should
24:18
I have for dinner? And, you know, and what's
24:21
a good recipe for that? That's if they get it
24:23
kind of wrong, that's okay. It's not okay in
24:26
finance, right? So you, there's an over -reliance
24:29
on the outputs because you get so comfortable
24:31
with it in your personal life that you're like,
24:33
oh, it's, it's good. It's really good. It's,
24:35
it's, but in many cases it's better than human
24:37
outputs. That's great. But they don't understand
24:40
the inputs. So I think there's, um, you know,
24:43
in finance is just professional obligation to
24:45
understand where a number came from. So when
24:48
AI generates a forecast or variance analysis.
24:52
It's easy to quickly almost present that as truth
24:55
and be like, well, AI did it. This is, you know,
24:58
it was fast, especially for the generation that's
25:00
really comfortable with AI and technology. But
25:03
where it looks clean, it looks good, but where
25:06
did the, where did the inputs come from? And
25:09
so I think it's always understanding the inputs
25:13
that came in, then drove the output. I think
25:16
it's, it's not understanding that is underplayed.
25:20
risk. I think it's that super, super form. It's
25:23
kind of like, you know, when I learned accounting,
25:25
I learned on a manual ledger. Like we had a ledger
25:27
book and it was debits and credits. And when
25:30
you got into computerized accounting, which I
25:32
did also in college, I'm not that old, but you
25:35
know, you, you learn manually first because then
25:37
when you're on the computer, I know exactly what
25:39
needs to be done to reverse a journal entry.
25:41
You understand it. And it's that manual piece
25:43
first. So it's the same kind of thing with AI
25:45
understand. where the data came from and what
25:48
those inputs were before you really trust the
25:50
outputs. Wow. It's so true because it can look
25:54
good, but not be right. Absolutely. Yeah. It
25:56
can look really good and it can sound really
25:58
smart. And not be right. And yeah, you didn't
26:02
know what the input and you don't have a clear
26:04
idea of what right should look like. You're going
26:07
to take it at face value and I can definitely
26:10
see that as a risk because we won't be able to
26:12
just blame AI and say, AI did it. I mean, they'll
26:15
always come back to you. Absolutely. That's why
26:19
you're the human in the loop. You're the one
26:21
who's just to validate. That's right. Yes. Yes.
26:24
Now I want to pivot a little bit. I know you've
26:26
been advising a lot of CFOs around big complex
26:30
things. I want to shift to you, really, your
26:34
story, because you build an impressive impressive
26:37
leadership career in tech and finance. Have you
26:39
been named in so many, so many places? So I'm
26:42
curious, what helped you get to where you are
26:46
now that people may not see from the outside?
26:49
There are so many things. I want all the tea.
26:55
All right. Well, that's a good question. I think
26:57
I'm naturally curious. Like I really want to
27:00
understand how things work and I don't want to.
27:03
I was never satisfied just staying in my lane.
27:06
I don't want to be in a finance function and
27:08
not understand the rest of the context on what's
27:11
going on in the business. I want to understand
27:13
the customer's world. When I had a firm, I want
27:15
to understand my client's world, the partner's
27:18
world, the engineer's world. So I think there's
27:21
a lot of curiosity there that got me, I guess,
27:26
to where I am. I think that played into it. I
27:29
also think I'm... I'm not afraid to take on things
27:34
that are, that are new. And I love that curiosity
27:36
kind of drives you to figure out how do we solve
27:39
complex problems? Like it's all like the Rubik's
27:41
cube of business. Like show me something that's
27:43
really messed up and I really like to get involved.
27:46
So whether it's a startup or a turnaround or
27:50
something that isn't working or isn't yet defined,
27:52
I just naturally love that and would jump in.
27:56
And I also. and not afraid to put in the cycle
28:00
of the time. Like I just, when you kind of get
28:03
immersed in solving something, you kind of get
28:05
lost in the excitement of it and you, you go
28:09
fast. So I think those are some things that helps
28:13
me get where I am today. Okay. And so you juggle
28:16
big roles and you speak, you're a great speaker
28:18
as well. And you also have a full home life.
28:22
So how do you actually keep all these things
28:25
going without burning out? Yeah, I don't think
28:28
that I've always got that right. So just to be
28:30
like, I'm not like that. Let me tell you how
28:32
you never get burned out. So I think, you know,
28:36
one of the ways I think is really important for
28:38
anyone that's in a leadership role when you're
28:40
thinking about how do I avoid burning out, really
28:42
looking at where you're spending your time. And
28:45
sometimes I found that I was spending my time
28:47
doing things because I hadn't invested enough
28:50
in the people around me. So it's, it's, I, I
28:54
should have someone on my team that can run with
28:56
that, but I haven't spent enough time investing
28:58
in them to learn that or to be able to take it
29:00
over. And so making sure that you're building
29:02
a really strong team in your personal life and
29:05
in your work life to support, you know, that,
29:08
that momentum and go forward direction, I think
29:11
is really critical. I also think as far as burnout
29:15
can be. you know, kind of a result of maybe doing
29:19
something that you don't launder or passionate
29:21
about. Like you're, it's, it's much more tiring.
29:24
If you're, if you're dreading going to work every
29:26
day, you're like, Oh, I'm doing something I just
29:28
don't like. When you are passionate about it
29:30
and you love it, it kind of fuels you up and
29:34
creates this buffer for, you know, you also should
29:36
be careful because sometimes you're passionate
29:38
and it means that you can keep running. Even
29:41
though you should probably stop and take a break.
29:43
So you have to be aware of that, but I think
29:45
just building that strong ecosystem inside and
29:47
outside the office, and then just making sure
29:50
that you're doing something you're passionate
29:51
about. It just keeps filling up your, your tank,
29:54
if you will. Oh yeah. I definitely noticed that
29:57
I feel energized, like doing this podcast, for
30:00
example, but how do you do a podcast? I'm like,
30:02
it gives me so much energy. I enjoy it. I don't
30:05
see it as a, and so I can definitely relate to
30:08
that, but I never thought about. um making sure
30:11
you have the support system at home like how
30:14
do you build that branch because i understand
30:16
as a leader you know at work sometimes you have
30:19
that tendency of saying it will take me less
30:22
time to do it myself um but spending the time
30:26
i can see the volume spending the time in training
30:28
and teaching someone else to help you do that
30:30
but how do you do it at home especially the kids
30:34
asking for a friend yeah yeah i mean i i think
30:38
It's okay to know when you need additional support.
30:42
I think there's, there can be a tendency, especially
30:45
on, you know, mothers and women, they want to
30:48
personally be able to do it all. And I think
30:52
that it's okay to say, Hey, here's where I need
30:54
some help. I'm going to need, you know, support
30:57
on, you know, how we're doing meal planning or
30:59
eating well, or keeping the house organized and
31:02
clean, or how do we... You know, how do we make
31:04
sure that we've got the right support? And although
31:07
there are lots of things that I could do, I do
31:09
get help in areas that will allow me to invest
31:12
in kind of where I'm passionate about. But I
31:15
think there is a tendency because, you know,
31:18
A type personalities just want to do it all themselves.
31:20
Like it's faster for me to do it than to get
31:22
someone else to do it. But it also takes, is
31:25
that the best use of my time? So if it's not
31:27
the best use of my time, is there someone else
31:29
that could do it that I'd be better off to redirect
31:32
that to something that. I love to do, I'm passionate
31:35
and it is the best use of my time. So, but it's
31:38
hard because you want to do it all, right? Yes.
31:40
Yes. It's, it's so hard. Yeah. And you want to
31:44
have it all at the same time. And yeah, definitely
31:47
need to pace yourself there. I agree. Yes. And
31:50
so what helped you develop, um, confidence in
31:54
speaking up in rooms where you might have been
31:56
the only women, because accounting and tech are
32:00
male dominated. Very much, yeah. When I'm in
32:03
round tables or, you know, small events, I always
32:06
look around the room and often I'll count, like,
32:08
how many women are in this room? We've got 100
32:10
people at this event or we've got 50 people at
32:12
this event. How many are women? And it's almost
32:15
with a high, high level of certainty, it's a
32:18
minority that are women. Like it's just, it's
32:20
the industry in a way that we're in, right? And
32:24
so for a number of years, I wasn't just the only
32:27
one in the room. I was also the youngest person
32:29
in the room, which is not the case anymore, unfortunately.
32:32
Um, but I was, you know, because I started my
32:34
business, you know, relatively in my early twenties,
32:37
getting out of college. And so, um, you feel
32:40
like you just don't have the same level of credibility.
32:44
Like I felt like I had a lot to prove on the
32:46
credibility side. It's all these, you know, man
32:49
that had been in the business for a long time
32:51
and I am newer and I am an adult woman, right?
32:55
And so I think that this almost unamplified when
32:58
I moved over a stage because I was an entrepreneur
33:01
and now I'm moving into a corporate world. So
33:02
now I felt like these people had all this corporate
33:04
experience and I've been running a small business.
33:07
So now they, when in actual fact I had experience
33:10
that they didn't have because I've been running
33:12
a small business, right? And I, and I've been
33:14
in the accounting space that we were serving.
33:17
So I had a... I was fortunate enough to have
33:19
a mentor early in my career who taught me, like,
33:23
when you don't have the confidence maybe in yourself
33:25
or you're like, I don't know how to, how to say
33:27
this or go up against someone who has 20 more
33:29
years of experience than me or is more dominant
33:32
in a conversation. He's like, oh, feel free to
33:35
lean back on the data. So it's not that your
33:38
opinion has to come back and say, I don't agree
33:41
with you because I think you're wrong or I believe
33:43
this. But when you say, I really appreciate what
33:46
you're saying, Bill. I always pick Bill's name.
33:48
I don't actually have someone named Bill that
33:50
I'm talking about, but you know, I appreciate
33:51
what you're saying, Bill. But when you look back
33:53
at the data, it's actually telling a bit of a
33:55
different story. And let me walk you through
33:57
that. It allows you to be able to kind of counter
34:02
what someone else is saying in a confident way,
34:06
even when you're in a room where you may not
34:07
have all the confidence because It's not your
34:10
opinion that you're bringing forward. It's the
34:12
data. And so you said until you feel confident
34:14
enough that you're just your opinion, which shouldn't
34:16
matter until you feel like that can be the voice,
34:19
lean on the data and build your confidence. And
34:22
it can really help me because then I always start
34:24
with the data and be able to lead with that until
34:28
I felt like my opinion had a place in the room.
34:31
And I could start with that. Oh, I love it. I'm
34:34
so going to steal that. Thank you for sharing.
34:37
Any other piece of advice you might want to share,
34:39
especially from that mentor or as you grew in
34:43
your career and now your opinion. Because I feel
34:45
like, especially as women, things like imposter
34:47
syndrome, not being able to speak up in those
34:50
rooms kind of crippled us at some point in our
34:53
career. So I'm always looking for more advice.
34:57
Yeah, that's a good one. been fortunate enough
35:00
to get some really good advice over the course
35:02
of my career. There are a few things that come
35:04
to mind. I always check in with myself and people
35:09
I see making sure that we don't confuse motion
35:12
with progress. And so, you know, when you, when
35:16
you think about it in today's world, everybody
35:19
is busy. Like you talk to people, it's like,
35:21
oh, how are you all so busy? Everything's so
35:23
busy. I think, you know, that word is overused.
35:25
But people have full calendars. They've got long
35:28
task lists. They want to feel productive. And
35:31
so what I was taught earlier is how do you make
35:35
sure that you're moving towards something that
35:37
matters? So how do you prioritize the most important
35:42
things? Because I think activity is really easy,
35:45
but progress and results are what really counts.
35:48
So it doesn't matter. You can do all the activity
35:49
in the world. And at the end of the day, if you
35:51
don't hit the result, It has been for nothing.
35:53
So how do you make sure that you're doing the
35:55
right things instead of just staying busy? The
35:57
other one is a piece of advice. I had an opportunity
36:02
to meet a business leader who had a tremendous
36:06
amount of respect for early in my career. And
36:08
I asked him, I had the same question for him,
36:10
what's the one piece of advice to lead all these
36:12
companies? And she said to me, it's amazing how
36:16
far you'll get if you don't care who gets the
36:19
credit. And I was like, whoa, that's really interesting.
36:21
And he said, He said, it always comes out in
36:24
the wash who did the work. Even if you're like,
36:28
hey, this person, they did it all. He said, I've
36:30
got people in my business who will give full
36:32
credit to someone else. I know they're the person
36:34
who got it done. But at the end of the day, you're
36:37
on a mission and you're trying to get to a certain
36:40
place and how you get there and who gets the
36:42
credit, it doesn't matter. Just how do you get
36:44
to that end destination? And it all comes out.
36:46
So always thinking about how do you give the
36:48
credit to others? How do you... not feel like
36:51
in order, I need to get recognized for that idea.
36:54
Oh, it's like if someone else took my idea and
36:56
they're, yeah, great. As long as we get it delivered,
36:58
let's go, you know? So that was some really good
37:02
advice that I've always respected and listened
37:07
to. And that's great leadership advice, like
37:09
getting your team to focus on, are we actually
37:13
making progress or are just, you know, being
37:15
busy and also, like you said, being able to cheer
37:18
them. It really comes back and help people enjoy
37:23
your leadership. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing.
37:27
Thank you very much for the discussion today.
37:29
I've really enjoyed it. Yes. I have one last
37:32
question. What is your favorite thing to do outside
37:36
of work? I joke a little bit that I am solar
37:39
powered. outside. So I guess people are like,
37:44
well, why didn't you get a job outside? I don't
37:46
know. There's just no job and what I do gets
37:49
outside, but I just love to be outside. So if
37:51
it's a sunny and warm day, whether it's going
37:54
for a walk or being on the water or, you know,
37:58
having friends over and enjoying, we have a pool,
38:02
so enjoying the pool, just something outside
38:03
in the sun. supercharged by more sunny weather.
38:08
So I just love to be outside. I feel like I spend
38:10
most of my day inside. So anytime that I can
38:13
get outside, I love it. Oh, yeah. That's a great
38:16
one. I have a win, but it's great right now.
38:19
But yeah, that's a great one. Well, thank you
38:21
so much for being on the show, Jennifer. It was
38:23
such a joy. Yeah, thank you so much for having
38:25
me. I really enjoyed our conversation. Likewise.
38:29
Thank you.