Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Learning on the job rather than university - Financial Planner & MD Jasmine Lambert

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Learning on the job rather than university - Financial Planner & MD Jasmine Lambert · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: They have a niche specialism, recruiting within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, it's Elena back for this week's episode of the Financial Planner Live Podcast, and I am joined by Yasmin Lambert, Chartered Financial Planner and Managing Director of Redwood Financial.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: In this week's episode, we talk about why you don't have to go to university to have a successful career within financial planning, the intersectionality between being a young and female financial planner.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: We discuss the transition from being a chartered financial planner into management and also how to build your confidence.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning, Yasmin.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing today?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fine.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very well.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for spending taking the time to speak with me this morning.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, as always, if we could begin by you just telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I am a financial planner and I run Redwood Financial.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're a family-owned business, actually.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So Dad started the company, oh gosh, probably back in like 1999 now.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but since 2014, I've been the managing director.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I kind of deal with the day-to-day running of the business as well as sort of seeing clients as well.
• 1:45
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Bah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um to begin with, you specialise in wills, trusts, and pensions, don't you?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the traditional um sort of uh financial planner type services, particularly around pensions and investments, are our sort of two core areas.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: But then I suppose what makes us a little bit different or a little bit unique is also that addition to um the estate planning side of things.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So advising clients on wills, lasting powers of attorney trust, those kinds of things as well.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: So how did that come about?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because we discussed it previously.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: How did you sort of specialise or hone in on that skill set as such?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was just uh very organic, or it felt at the time a very organic sort of um evolution, really.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Of we spent a lot of time sort of helping to clients to grow their wealth, you know, talking about investments and pensions and building that wealth up.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we kind of felt that there was sort of a missing piece of the puzzle and we're not helping clients to then protect that wealth.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it was that typical process, that annual review stage, you know, we tell the client, look, you really should get your will updated, um, or have one, because some of them didn't even have one.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'd see them six months or a year later, and they still didn't have a will in place because they hadn't got around to seeing anyone.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or if we did see them and they had a will, it was that very typical kind of just leave everything to each other and then down to the kids type situation.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: They hadn't actually received any advice around things like inheritance tax planning or care feed planning or you know, protecting the family bloodline and keeping that money in the in inside the family.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so we really felt like there was sort of uh a space in the market, I think, to give clients that much more holistic advice and say, actually, let's just not just build the wealth for the sake of building it, let's build it with the gold to then enjoy it, but also whatever you do pass down to the next generation, let's make sure it's safe and protected for them and it goes down in the most tax-efficient way possible.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it really, as I say, now we do it, you know, it just seems like it's an obvious natural fit and an obvious natural synergy, really.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's kind of how it started sort of 10 years ago now.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then as you say, it's become a really massive core part of our business.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's funny that you use the word holistic there, because as you just touched on to begin with, you know, financial planning can very often be viewed as building your wealth, building your wealth to a certain point.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: May that be um through investment or obviously building your wealth.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So at retirement age, you've got that nice little pension sort of all set up and ready.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: But as you just touched on, you know, the the wills, the estate planning side of things really allows you to tie into this holistic model of financial planning.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you agree?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's just so much more powerful as well, because we actually get to see the money and the wealth that you've helped that client build in action.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because when that time comes and the client passes away, you're able to then support the family and watch that money then pass down to the next generation and be an integral part of that advice process as well, which the families are really grateful for.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you really get to see it, you know, you get to see the the kids paying off their mortgage or, you know, um you know, reinvesting some for their own financial freedom.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's really, it's a really positive, and I think we have much more impact when we can cross those generations as well.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can imagine as you touched on then, you know, through that um long-term sort of planning, you can really add value to your clients as absolutely.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um as you just touched on, you know, financial planning in general is so different to how it used to be.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about um, you know, funding your children through university, you know, planning for your dream holiday.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I can imagine that side of things, you know, the inheritance tax planning, the estate planning all sort of combined, allows you to really, you know, play on this holistic financial planning model because yeah, as you just had uh said, it's intergenerational.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can look after your children, you know, it's not just about the here and now and you know what you're gonna get next year as such.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've never met any client that's just wanting to build wealth for the sake of building wealth.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's always some kind of goal and objective, whether it's for themselves, as you say, that, you know, once in a lifetime holiday or to retire early.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: But then once those things are kind of done, it then becomes about, well, we're building wealth to help help our kids.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's like you say, to help them on the property ladder, help them through university, whatever those costs are.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's always some goal, and it and invariably, um, if you have children, it's a very expensive thing, and it normally um is about helping the kids.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, like you say, we found it hugely powerful and it just really ties in with everything that our clients are looking to achieve anyway.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I completely agree.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And as we just had touched on, you know, financial planning is so much more complex than potentially it used to be, and being able to offer that intergenerational support and being there not just for your clients, but their children as well, potentially even their grandchildren, is is really, really powerful.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you're doing now, Yasmin.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So how did we get to the how did you get to this point?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do you would you like to sort of discuss to the audience like your career journey as such?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get to sort of the point that you are today?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the jet the when I when you say like the career journey, it makes me feel so old at this point.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um but um, but yeah, I mean, like you say, everyone's got their own journey, I suppose, their own story.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and I suppose for me, um, the thing that is a little bit different is kind of choosing not to go down the university route um and that being a very conscious decision, really, at the time.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think probably like most financial planners, um, I fell into the profession.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I fell into it and then fell completely in love with it.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't expect this to be my career at all.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I started, uh I was at college, I was doing my A levels, I was studying marketing and psychology, so nothing related to world of finance in any way, shape, or form.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but whilst I was at college, I I needed some part-time money um to pay for driving lessons and the insurance on my first car and all of those things.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I managed to get a job um working for my dad in his firm, uh, just sort of doing a bit of part-time administration, a little bit of marketing for him.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and yeah, that was great.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: It gave me a little bit of fun money um each month.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of got to the end of uh college, I got my A levels, and the kind of assumption really was well, if you've got the grades to go to university, surely you're going to university.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it just seemed to me, and there was a lot of pressure from my sort of tutors and my teachers at the time to sort of say, well, you know, you've surely you're going to go to university.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, well, that's that's not one the first question is, can we get into university?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got the grades?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I appreciate that's the first challenge.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: But once you have got the grades, surely then the next question is, What should I go to university?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right for me?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I kind of I think I'm I'm like most young people at that age, you know, you're very young.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my with my life, with my career.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was good at marketing, I was good at psychology, I liked both, I was equally interested in both, and I I couldn't get off the fence.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, what, I just don't feel like it's right that I go to university, end up with a degree that I might not use or need or really have a passion for, get into all of that debt.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what really was a thing for me, the the debt for something that, you know, I wasn't sure about.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: If I knew I wanted to be a doctor or a teacher and I was gonna have to go to university, then of course you're gonna make that investment in your further education.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I was so on the fence and I didn't feel like it was worth getting into that kind of debt for.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided actually, you know, qualifications or not, university wasn't the right path for me, and I was gonna go into the workforce.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that really started, and I just assumed I'd get a job in marketing.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, went off and applied and got a job.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized I was gonna have to hand my notice in at my dad's firm, you know, for that part-time job.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized I felt really quite heartbroken about that, quite sad, you know, the the team that was already there.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I built good relationships with them.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I said to my dad, look, actually, I think I'm really sad about leaving.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think I might want to come join full-time instead of part-time.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And him and my mum, who were running the firm together at that point, they both sort of said, Oh my god, that's great.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted you to come join, um, but we didn't want to put any pressure on you.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a really good, it was really fortuitous.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: They felt the same way as I did.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I then turned that marketing job down, went and joined them full-time.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I just assumed I'd be doing the same sort of thing, you know, administration, bit of marketing for them.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: But very quickly, Dad was like, no, if you're gonna come into the family business, let's let's go fully into the family business.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would work through the day and do my day job with him, and then I would study at home of an evening to start getting my financial qualifications.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it meant that, you know, again, I for me obviously as a path, everyone learns differently.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I found it really useful because I was learning sort of real life skills, real life experience, meeting clients, seeing clients, watching my dad in action.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that really cemented then all of the technical learning that I was doing at home of an evening with the textbook.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think it really sort of supported that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I personally think it allowed me to kind of probably get my exams that little bit quicker as well, just because of that real life experience sitting alongside.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it meant that, yeah, by the time I was 20, um, I was level four, um, certified.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't put that to use straight away.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just did power planning to begin with.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it sort of progressed from there, really.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like I say, I just unexpectedly fell in love with it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, every client is different, every story, every objective that the client's trying to achieve is different, every family dynamic is different.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, no one day is the same for me, and uh, and I absolutely adore that.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's the the people and the clients I think that I completely fell in love with.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so amazing to hear how much you enjoy it and how like passionate and excited you are about the industry that they'd like definitely shined through.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um you did you do sort of like all explore all the different roles, like start at an administrative level, do a bit of power planning, explore all the roles before you stepped into sort of financial planning.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Did yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have done it all.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I started at the bottom of the rung, I started in reception, um, I worked, like you say, my way through into administration, then into power planning, um, and then into an advice role.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I personally think that's given me again that huge breadth of knowledge and that huge breadth of experience and understanding, you know, and uh as an advisor now, you know, there's things I do that I know will frustrate my points if I don't get the right information, if I don't give them enough detail or instruction.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And because I was a power planner myself, I think I have much more of an understanding as well of, you know, not just that the fun part of the job, which I think is getting to speak to the clients, but it's like actually I need to make sure that I get a detailed fact find that I get all the right information because that's going to help the power planners do their job.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I think there's there's a much more deeper respect and appreciation for the different roles when you've gone through them all as well and you've seen them from the different aspects as well.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that I think's been hugely valuable.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, deeper respect, as you said, 100% in regards to you understand sort of what the other job roles entail.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I guess it just cements your technical knowledge, probably puts you in a better place to become a financial planner, having gone through all the different roles.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, by the time I then became sort of client-facing um and started seeing clients again around sort of 2013, 2014, started actually seeing clients, um, sort of having then dealt with clients though on a power planning basis, really it didn't feel like such a big scary leap as well into then an advice role, too.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that was that was hugely valuable for me, the experience that I've gained.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously, you know, since then been able to go on to doing my chartered as well.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So just adding to that technical knowledge all the time, but it is that balance between technical and real life experience.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know, that's the one thing you can't get from the textbook is the real life experience.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you just touched on then, well, you touched on previously that obviously when you were first in your level four diploma, you were studying at home and you're studying in the evenings and then going in in the day, sort of working in in at Redwood and in the office.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you said the balance was really important.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think the real life experiences and the technical sort of team together is so valuable?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think, I think, like you say, it the textbook is fantastic, obviously, for the the technical knowledge and the understanding of what a client can and can't do and the right products and solutions.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: But then we've got to remember that behind the textbook, there are human beings.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um clients are human beings, they have fears, they have hopes and ambitions, they have worries and concerns.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have to be, I think, experienced in understanding and picking up on those cues and listening to a client.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in a textbook might say, well, this is what you should do every single time.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: But there are circumstances in the real world where that's just not appropriate for that particular client, or that's, you know, just not going to meet their needs.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, like you say, that's that's hugely important that you get that face-to-face client time and you get that experience of really learning to be a good listener, um, asking the right questions of the clients.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And those things they don't teach you in the textbook from that point of view.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a yeah, a huge part in achieving that balance.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess as you just said, then, you know, the textbook can teach you all the technical knowledge, but it's the actual going out and you know, working in the office and acting as a point of contact with clients and speaking with clients that's going to help you build the soft skills which you need.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's probably, if anything, it's those softer skills which lend itself more to an advisor role, you know, in the future.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the clients aren't really bothered about the product or the technical stuff.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: They assume that you've got all of that knowledge and you've got all of that correct.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you have to have it all correct, you have to have the technical knowledge.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: But really, what the client wants is that person that they can have a really good relationship with, trust and good communication, and that they feel like they're being listened to and they're being understood.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, especially when you're in an advice role, that those soft skills are so vitally important.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think, like you say, often can sometimes get under undervalued.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely agree that that soft skill set can definitely be very often undervalued, potentially for someone right now that's sort of studying for their exams, you know, might be in a back office position, wanting to step into client service in the future.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: How would you recommend that they is there any advice that you can give to help them build on that soft skill set?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think obviously there's a there's a couple of different things that I certainly did.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as I say, I had the the benefit of working, you know, with my father, which was great.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So he was a great resource.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: We did a lot of like role playing.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: So he would role play and pretend to be a client, um, and sometimes be a challenging client, sometimes be a really nice, friendly, easy client, um, and different scenarios and he'd you know fill out fact finds, initial fact finds and things like that, and would kind of test me if you like.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that was kind of good to have that role playing from that side of things.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing that, you know, if you're in a non-advice role at the moment, if you're in more of an administration or power planning role, is kind of asking your advisors, you know, how can you better help them?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: How can you add value?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And whether that's you know, asking for the opportunity to come and sit in on some of their meetings so you can see them in action, see their soft skills in action.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also, you know, little things like, you know, if it's just you know taking the client through some uh basic paperwork and getting some signatures, do they need to see the advisor for that?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Are they happy for you as the power planner to have like a sort of quick get together with the client and deal with that paperwork?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so those little bits of administration, if you can start taking them off of the advisor's sort of plate and you can start getting in front of clients to do those things, that's again just going to start building up your experience.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're not seeing them in an advice capacity at that stage, but you're just getting used to talking to them, holding conversations, you know, all those soft skills, asking how they are.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's just going to slowly build that confidence, I think, as well.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Especially on the recruitment side of things, I deal with lots of candidates, may that be sort of administrators, power planners, people in different back office situations that want more client contact, but are a bit like apprehensive to like how their firm will react if they ask, as you just said, you know, can I take the lead a bit more?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: You as a managing director, you know, would you be receptive to one of your employees came and sort of asked you to do something like that?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it shows great initiative.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it shows great ambition.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, as an advisor and also as a managing director, our time is really busy, you know, and and and we're running from one meeting to another sometimes.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And any support we can have where, you know, a power planner or administrator says, look, I can trust me, I can take this off of you, I can see that client and just do that bit of admin, um, is fantastic, you know, because that just frees up our time as well.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it I think it adds huge amounts of value to the business that you're working for.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know um many uh advisors that wouldn't appreciate that kind of extra support, to be honest.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I have this conversation with candidates all the time.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you want more client contact, go and ask the question.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great to hear from your perspective as a managing director.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: If someone came and sort of asked that to you or said that to you, that you would be sort of receptive to that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if we go back to your beginning of your journey, you sat in your kitchen studying for your level four diploma.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: As you said, you know, you had completed your level four diploma by the time that you were 20.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I lots of people went well, like the usual age of like graduating university is sort of 21.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if you consider, yeah, you you didn't go to university, but you had that qualification, which is the benchmark within the industry before potentially all your friends sort of had that did go to university, had graduated.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it definitely goes to show, you know, especially for this industry where that level four diploma is the benchmark.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: As much as some sort of university courses or degrees, they'll give you a couple of ROs or something like that, and that'll be combined in the course.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't necessarily add the same amount of value.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, not going to a university, you think that like benefited you to a certain extent within this industry as such?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think, like you say, in this particular industry, and especially if you you do want to ultimately become client-facing, um, that that real life experience, like you say, that you that I wouldn't have got had I gone to university potentially.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's other experiences I would have got from going to university just from the social side of it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's other things that you might still go down that university path if that's right for you.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: But especially if you don't sort of learn in the traditional way of, you know, lectures and classrooms and things like that, and you learn much more by doing and seeing, being able to work and get work experience inside a practice at the same time as studying, I think massively helped me.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And like you say, allowed me to A, get through my qualifications a lot quicker because I think a lot of that knowledge was cemented a lot quicker for me, seeing it in the real life action.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then as I say, it's definitely accelerated, I think, my relationship with clients, accelerated my journey to become client-facing, because I've not had to do the kind of technical study for so many years before I can then even get in front of a client or see a practice in action.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um, that's definitely accelerated things and was was the right decision for me, absolutely.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think hopefully other people might now appreciate it could be a path for them as well.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because as I say, it's that almost that assumption of well, if you have a certain level of A level results or certain amount of grades, you have to go to university.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, who says you have to?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it has got its value for a lot of people, of course it has, but just because it's expected or conventional doesn't yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um it's exactly the same for me.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I did my levels, it was uni, uni, uni.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I went to uni, I loved uni.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: As you said, I had it added lots of value in lots of different ways.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: But am I using my degree now?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Am I ever probably gonna use my degree?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not, to be honest.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it is that sort of changing, changing the narrative as such that, especially at those school leavers, you don't have to go to university.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And as we know, you know, the financial planning industry in the long run is suffering a skill shortage as such.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: As more financial planners across the next set of 10 years and such, as such, retire, there's going to be an even larger skill shortage.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you obviously became a school lever and joined a financial planning firm.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, your dad being a financial advisor is a key reason for this.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: But how do we encourage more people at school level to join a wealth management firm?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's uh just generally there's a lack of education at school level, um, across the board, really, about good financial money management.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are kids leaving school at 16, going into apprenticeships and jobs, and they don't even know how to open a bank account or run a simple budget, you know, when they start getting a monthly income for the first time.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if we look at the kind of wealth gap that there is across the UK, where the rich essentially get richer and the poor stay poorer, a lot of that is around good financial education.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not learning it at home in terms of money management, debt management, you know, budgeting, all those kinds of things, they're not learning it in school.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So they're just kind of doomed to repeat the same kind of process and come away from school being sort of really bad with money.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's in it's not something for some reason that's not part of the curriculum.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if it was, not only would we have younger people leave you know college and school more informed and better at managing their own money once they go into the workforce, but also there would be some people as part of that education process that would go, oh, actually, I find this quite interesting.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and that then in turn might lead them down actually a career path in this area.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: But because it's not even discussed um anywhere in the curriculum, I think it's really hard for younger people really to even understand that a career in finance, you know, could be an option for them.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think that by potentially teaching children at a younger age level about their finances, may that be you know, basic budgeting, how to apply for a mortgage, what what your taxes even are.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think by educating children at this younger level about finances, it will in they will obviously become more aware of financial planning and encourage more people to become financial planners or join the profession in the future?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think, like you say, that would be um the obvious benefit of doing that, as well as, as I say, just improving the overall knowledge and education about how people manage their money.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we speak, especially about, and I've spoken about it before on the podcast, it is definitely like a recurring theme that we need to have more conversations about money, you know, um, um, especially when I'm um especially on the recruitment side, when I recruit for roles that are a bit more entry-level, lots of people aren't even aware of financial planning.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it definitely goes to show that the knowledge gap as such.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And flipping the coin on its head, though, as we said, you know, there is a skill shortage, not only by offering these financial education to younger people, it's not just important for their own financial futures, but you know, it can also really help the profession by educating them, getting people interested about it, and encouraging them to join the industry in the future.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Which you say is what we need.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Yasmin, you are a young female financial planner.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there's an element of intersectionality with yourself because I've had conversations with female financial planners and they have um certain experiences and face certain barriers due to being a female financial planner.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I speak to younger age profile financial planners that face barriers as such because they're a younger age profile, but you have had the combination of the both, which I'm sure has displayed its own challenges as such.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: But a recurrent theme when I speak to these individuals, may that be female financial planners, younger age profile financial planners, is that they can sometimes feel there's a lack of confidence within themselves.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, how have you sort of built your confidence over time?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm definitely uh I'm gonna take the young part there as a compliment.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel young anymore, but I was I was certainly young when I um when I started out.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was there was a couple of things, I guess, that kind of um happened, I suppose, very early on.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and thankfully, again, I I had a great mentor in in my father.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really fortunate in that, in the sense that he drilled into me um really from from quite a young age, from the start of the career, really, that you know, our job is is to make sure that we are confident in what we do.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And when we give advice to clients, if we're on the fence, if we're not sure, if we come across like we're we're not entirely confident in what we're saying, they're going to doubt us, they're gonna have a lack of confidence in us.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that means they could potentially walk out and and not do the important planning that they need to do.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if that means they don't take out that life insurance, because I've not been confident about how important that is, and then they go and have a critical illness or die and leave their spouse with a mortgage and there's nothing to pay it off, or if they leave the office and they've not done that will, you know, there are quite serious ramifications.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know we're not doctors and we're not saving people's lives, but we are having a really big impact on people's lives.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think my dad instilled in me from the beginning that if there's nothing else that you do, your job is to make sure that you impress upon your clients the impact and the outcomes if they don't take your advice and the downsides and what could go wrong.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to just be confident and get off the fence and and tell your clients what they need to do to protect themselves, to build their wealth, whatever it is that they're worried or concerned about, because the worst thing you can do is is do a disservice to them by not giving them that ability to be confident into you.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: So very early on, I kind of went into all of my client meetings just with the viewpoint of you know, you're here for advice, you the client needs help, the client is looking for answers.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: What reason is there to doubt my advice?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so having that confidence in my skills and my knowledge and my experience, I just went in just assuming that you're gonna listen to me, regardless of the fact that I'm a woman or I'm young.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just assume that you're here and you're going to listen to my advice because I'm the advisor.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's an element of I think that naturally just came out in my body language and that confidence, I think, just came through.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the clients then had confidence in it.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not to say that some people aren't discriminated against because of their gender or because of their age or anything like that.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, I'm sure it does happen.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for me personally, that's not been my experience.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of that is just because I've just gone into those meetings expecting that there was going to be that respect for my advice, my knowledge and my skills.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's then come through in my in my body language and the way in which I conducted myself.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so the client felt comfortable, the client didn't feel the need to question anything due to my gender or my age.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing I think I really did, and and it's funny, I still do it to this day.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it just shows you that it works, is I do a lot of like visualization.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'm really into the psychology of kind of mind over matter and that kind of stuff.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I really do think like, you know, if you think you can, you can, and if you think you can't, you can't.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it is sometimes that simple.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I from the beginning kind of made like a track in my mind of like this is how my client meetings are gonna go.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna start with, you know, welcoming them, and then we're gonna go through the fact find stuff, and then we're gonna ask them some questions about this and not a sort of script, so it's not kind of cold or anything like that.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a script, but kind of in my head, I have this agenda, this running order, which basically says, right, this is what I'm gonna do.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I'm gonna explain how we work and the costs and charges, and then you know, the client's then gonna ask some really interesting, good questions, and then the client's gonna say, Yeah, let's proceed.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of use that kind of track to visualize, you know, about 15 minutes before I have a meeting, no matter what meeting I'm having, I use those 15 minutes to make sure that I'm fully prepared, I know who I'm seeing, I know what they're coming to see me about, what their worries and concerns are, if they're an existing client or a new client.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know all of that stuff.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I use those 15 minutes before to then just literally close my eyes and visualize them coming in, then being really warm and welcoming and greeting, um, sitting down, having a bit of a chat, going through that process of the meeting, and then being really happy and confident with me at the end and saying yes, they want to move forward.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I visualize that meeting going well.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then funnily enough, we go into the meeting and the meeting goes well.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think it very much for me is that that's another trick or a tip, I guess, that as I say, I used in the beginning was that visualization, but I I still do it now, I still prep for every single meeting, I still do that visualization now, even after all these years, because that's what gives me the confidence to go, yeah, I've got this.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's definitely a psychological uh thing, I think.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: As you just touched on then to begin with, it's mind over matter, isn't it?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you as much as we can talk about all these different barriers and things like that, and as you just said, you know, they definitely happen.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm spoken to so many candidates and individuals that have gone through all these different experiences, but it's all about your mentality at the end of the day.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't feel confident, it's definitely gonna resonate.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really nice tip there in regards to the sort of the visualization.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree, and this is just aside from you know, financial plan or anything.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you think something is gonna go badly, it probably is gonna go badly, but you've pre you've predetermined, you've predestined it to go badly.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: If, like you say, if you walk into that meeting thinking, oh, this client's really difficult, they're gonna ask loads of difficult questions, they're gonna have loads of barriers.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're gonna find those things happen because you've just like you say, you've worked yourself up, and I do, I believe it's so self-fulfilling.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like you say, you've you've preordained it, really.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if you walk in going, this is gonna be a great meeting, you're gonna love me, I'm gonna love you, we're gonna get along like a house on fire, it's gonna be great.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really hard for it to go the other way.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that visualization, that's a really good tip for the audience out there, you know.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe if you are feeling a little bit nervous before you're going into quiet meetings for one reason or another, you know, visualizing that it's gonna go well and backing yourself at the end of the day.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I guess it all ties in with the facts we touched on before.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Preparation is key.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you can only visualize it and do this whole thing of sitting there and plan how the meeting's gonna go if you have prepared yourself.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely preparation is key.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it also lends itself as well.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So many of my clients will be impressed that I've come prepared to the meeting, that I remember things that we said from our last meeting, or that I've got, you know, all the right information to hand.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that also then in turn is again self-fulfilling because the client can see that preparation, they can see that you're prepared for them, they feel valued and respected.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you're gonna get the same, you know, back.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very reciprocal thing.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you say, I just I don't think you can ever be too prepared.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and the the the danger is that as you get more experienced, as you get older, you think, oh, I don't need to do that, I know what I'm doing, I don't need to prep, I can just go straight into a meeting.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there are times when, you know, just because things are really busy, I don't get to do my full prep and and my meetings are always never as smooth, always more rushed.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I always finish those meetings going, oh, I could have been better, you know.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so even now after all this time, that's why I still I still do that prep.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: I still do that visualization work and yeah, it's with anything though, even you know, with myself, you know, if I have a meeting that I'm feeling particularly anxious about, or you know, I have something that I'm a bit more nervous about, you if I don't do anything and sit on it, by the time that meeting comes, I am gonna be stressed.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: But if I take the time, if I take the time out before, a couple of days before, and then on the day to go through it, make sure I'm feeling prepared, I will go into a meeting that I was nervous about knowing that I am gonna smash it because I have laid in the groundwork and I've visualized it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this is a really nice little couple of tips.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're out there potentially not feeling very confident or feeling a bit anxious about certain things, preparation is key.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, tell yourself that you can do it.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Get yourself into the positive mind frame because you're going in there telling yourself that it's gonna be great, it probably is gonna go great.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've spoken about, and I speak with advisors all the time, about that transition from sort of back office into client facing.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: However, you have done the transition from just being um a financial planner into being a managing director.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, how was that transition from sort of being an advisor into management?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it was certainly easier, I think, going from power planner to advisor.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was much more organic because at least it was still related to being client-facing and related to financial services.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Going from you know, an advisor to uh a leader to a managing director and and suddenly having to have entrepreneurial skills or you know, leadership skills of an entire team, it that was much more scary.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was much more scary.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was a that was a big challenge.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and there was the kind of physical stuff, I guess, that happened quite quickly in terms of you know freeing up my diary and having days where I didn't see clients and I worked primarily on the business as opposed to in the business.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think mentally, uh again, psycho psychologically, it took a while for my brain to kind of catch up and go, oh, oh no, you are the managing director now.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can make these decisions on your own.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to check in with someone else or ask permission.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also then the fear of all of those decisions are on my shoulders as well.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you make the wrong call, there's literally no one else to blame but yourself.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so really, I think, you know, for me, what I had to do is I had to do a lot of education.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had to go back to school, really, because I had all my technical qualifications to be an advisor.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I then basically went back to school and of an evening and would then read every book that I could possibly get on management and leadership and entrepreneurial skills and every business book from every you know fantastic business owner that's out there.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: I would just read and try and get as much information and knowledge as I could in that area because, again, it's not something they teach you at school or even through the technical um qualifications and exams.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really something that I had to work on um 100%.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of that also came with again that confidence and that acceptance to go, actually, I might be the managing director, but I am also still human.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes I have some great ideas for the business that are fantastic and they do great things.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And there are other times when I have ideas that are really rubbish and just completely flop.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's okay.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think having that vulnerability and especially you know, be leading by example for the rest of the team, um, it is okay to make mistakes.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the managing director and I still make mistakes, I still have ideas which are absolutely awful.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I look back now and go, oh, I can't believe I thought that was going to be a beautiful idea or I thought that was gonna go well.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I just think as long as you can use anything like that as a learning process, you know, and we've got like a little saying in our team of if you're not winning, you're learning.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if we're not winning and we're not getting it right, then we're learning.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And actually that just helps us get quicker to the next win and move on to the next win.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, we don't really say like we've made mistakes or we've messed up.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: We we literally, if something doesn't go right, we just go, well, if you're not winning, you're learning.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of the new that we've had to take.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take that with me moving forward, Jasmine.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I actually really, really like that because you've also got to, you know, we just touched on, you've got to take, even if it's a failure, you've got to take the positive out of that.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing is ever a failure.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: You've maybe you didn't handle something in the right way, but now you know how to handle it in that correct way moving forward.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I, you know, the same way that I speak with lots of back office people that want to step into client face and I obviously speak with lots of advisors that want to take that leap into management.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know you touched on obviously going back and reading books and things like that.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: What advice would you potentially give to people that want to take that leap into sort of management or senior level in regards to their firm?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think again, it I think it's about breaking it down into stepping stones.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when we talk about like my journey, I didn't go from advisor straight into managing director.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, what happened is whilst I was advising and seeing clients, I was also sort of starting, I started off doing a bit of like team leader roles, you know.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: When I was a power planner, we had a team of power planners, and I would be the kind of team leader of those power planners.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then I kind of moved into like an office manager role where like the day-to-day operations of the business was kind of my job, um, and my father was still the MD and made all the crucial decisions.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I got little uh stepping stones, if you like, and I managed to dip my toe into management, and it started off maybe by only looking after a couple of team members, and then it goes to the whole office, and and so then so you started to amass those skills a little bit, which definitely then aided obviously making that bigger leap from you know advisor straight into to managing director from that point of view.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously the reading I think is a huge thing, and but then, like you say, asking for more responsibility if you are in a power planner administrator role, you're looking, as you say, to you know, actually move into more of a management role, uh going to the managing director, the leadership team, and saying, I want more responsibility, how can I add more value to the business?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: How can I take on more responsibility so that I can grow my management skills and just see what they start giving you um from that and take those opportunities as and when um they're given to you, but you have to ask for them.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't ask, you don't get, you know, that's just again my my general um view on things is if you want something, you've got to ask for it, you've got to go for it.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, I absolutely agree.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is good also for the audience out there, especially one we touched on previously in regards to sort of back office people that potentially want a bit more client contact, build on that soft skills, financial planners that potentially want to step into senior management, you know, you don't ask, you don't get.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you want that extra responsibility, go speak to your line managers, go speak to the directors of the company, you know, ask how you can get involved because how are they supposed to know that you've got these ambitions and help you nurture them if they're not aware of them themselves?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, unless you work for a really small company and it is kind of everyone's really close and tight-knit.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like you say, they're not going to know you've got those ambitions if you don't make it clear.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, absolutely.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: But Redwood Financial is close and tight-knit with the Redwood family.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this leads on to really nicely on something that I want to speak about, especially on the recruitment side of things.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we touched on this in our previous conversation that family-owned businesses can sometimes have a bit of a negative stigma.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's normally because someone has had um a negative experience at one firm.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, not every firm is great, but you also can't taint, you know, all you can't, you know, taint everyone with the same brush as such.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess to explain, you know, often um pushback I get on family-owned businesses on the recruitment side of things is oh, it's clicky, you know, oh, it's all the family that get promoted, and I'm not going to get promoted.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's the daughter over, you know, me or the son over me.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, you know, sometimes how it can be perceived.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do you create that feeling of belonging within um a um sort of a family-run business?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think anyone that's had that experience, you haven't met my dad.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because my dad, God love him, my my dad, god love him, is is so brutally honest.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and it's a wonderful trait.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: You always know exactly where you stand with him.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And from the beginning, when I came into the business, he he was always very clear with me.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also publicly to the rest of the team, he would say, Look, you're my daughter, of course, I'm gonna make sure that you're always okay.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if you need a job, you've got a job.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll always make sure you've got a roof over your head and you've got enough money coming in to pay your bills.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if the only thing you're good enough to do is to make tea and you know, do a bit of filing and faxing, that's where you'll stay.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the job that you'll have and the and the salary that goes with it.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else from here on out, that's on you.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: And dad was really brutally honest with that and was like, you're not getting anything more than just a foot in the door because you're my daughter.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else is on you to to push for, and if you want to go further and if you want to um see clients and earn more money, that's on you.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: You've got you've got to do that.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, and dad, as I say, said that to my face and was brutally honest to my face, um, uh, but also would say it to the rest of the team.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they were very clear of, oh yeah, she's not getting any special treatment.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, literally, if if I was rubbish, um, he would have made sure I still had a job, but he would not have let me progress to any other position, no matter how senior, without the right skill sets or without being the right person.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and hopefully that's how most family businesses should run is it should be based on skills and who's the right person for the job, regardless of the family relationship.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um but as I I do appreciate that's maybe not always the case in terms of.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: How we've kind of tackled it, you know, like you say, not wanting it to feel clicky.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we refer to the whole team as the Redwood family.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's a few of us that are related, but we refer to everyone as the Redwood family.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's so funny, we get really, really um defensive when people refer to the rest of the team as staff.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's such a silly little word, but it really bugs us.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Holly, who Holly, who's my sister, she's our operations director.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: If someone external refers to the rest of the team as our staff, she's like, they're not our staff, they're they're part of our team, they're our family.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: And she she's so we're so protective of that, not wanting to feel clicky, wanting it to feel like a family.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the other way that we do that is we also give shares in the business.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: So after a year of working with us at Redwood, um, we they don't have to um invest or contribute anything, we just give them shares in the family business.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're issued with a share certificate and they now become a shareholder and have a stake in the business with us.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's so important, again, psychologically, but you know, just sort of from that mentality of then they now are part of something.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can actually, you know, each year when the business makes a profit, we all get to share in that profit.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And because they're shareholders in the business, you know, we're really honest with them.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: We open the accounts, we show them the books, they know how the business is doing, you know, turnover profit-wise, which again is very unusual for a lot of companies to do that with every every member of the team.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um, Chloe, who is our wonderful receptionist, um, she's been with us now several years, she has shares in the business.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't matter whether you're the receptionist or an advisor or a power planner, every single one of them as a shareholder sees the business, sees the performance, and we all get to share in the profit.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we really all feel like we're working towards something for all of us to have a benefit in, not just the directors, not just the family owners of the business.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: It is all of us.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been a really big thing that we've done over the years now to really make sure that we're living by what we're saying.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's all good and well saying, oh yeah, everyone's part of the Redwood family.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then actually, shouldn't we all share in that in that profit when the business wins?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: We all win.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously, if the business has a bad year, we all feel that pain, you know.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: We we all so we we, you know, we there is really that sense of community, I think, from from doing that.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that must be so valuable and so powerful and so encouraging because as you just touched on, you know, it's not just the the family owners or the people directly in the family that are seeing the benefits of the business doing well.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's everyone.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, over the long term as well, that encourages the whole Redwood family to work harder and invest so much into their work because everyone's gonna see the rewards.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just the the select few, it's everyone's.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for potentially other family-run businesses that are out there or directors or owners of family-run businesses that are watching this, you know, this is a really, really encouraging way to make sure that everyone feels part of it.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, everyone reaps the rewards because everyone's working just as hard as each other.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, I think it's just something as a family business, you have to be more mindful of that culture.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Any business, you know, with any like hierarchy or leadership team has the potential to be clicky and needs to monitor that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, as you say, as a family business, going into it, the apprehension is almost, oh, it's definitely going to be clicky.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: So culturally, we really have to watch that and combat that and make sure that we're going above and beyond even a normal firm to make sure that it's not that way.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this must be well, will be really encouraging to the audience out there that are part of family-run businesses, um, maybe within one or the director of one, you know, that you can combat that culture.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: There doesn't have to be this perception of clickiness and stuff like that.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: The complete opposite.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can extend your family and you can have the little Redwood family as, you know, you can have a family of more than just your the director, it can be everyone involved.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure Redwood Financial is an absolutely amazing place to work, but lots of reasons, including that.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: But Yasmin, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the Financial Planner Live podcast today.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: We have covered so many topics that I'm sure are going to be super or are super interesting for the audience.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: May that be the intersectionality of being a young and female financial planner, how to step, take that step from sort of um advisor into management, and you know, how to make a family business feel like a proper family inclusive place to work.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for taking the time out to speak with me today, Yasmin.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been a pleasure to have you on.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great.