Latest / Voices for Voices® / How Your Job Can Help You Get Sober | Episode 117

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How Your Job Can Help You Get Sober | Episode 117 · Voices for Voices®

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I am your host, justin Allen Hayes, founder and executive director at Voices for Voices.
• 0:10
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• 0:16
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• 0:44
  Speaker 1: So, with that, voices for Voices is the number one ranked TV show and podcast where people turn to for expert mental health recovery and career advancement intelligence.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So our TV show and podcast is all about teaching you insanely actionable techniques that help you prosper, grow yourself, your self-worth and your personal brand.
• 1:10
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• 1:24
  Speaker 1: As you can see, the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast publishes episodes.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: That focuses on case studies, real-life examples, actionable tips and, in the trenches, reports and interviews from subscribers just like you.
• 1:43
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• 2:09
  Speaker 1: We are again.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: We have bold thoughts and goals and want you join us and and help us get closer to that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So a couple programming notes 2024.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: As you may have noticed, every other Friday we have what we call our bi-weekly roundup, where we talk about current events that are facing the community, sometimes at the state level and then sometimes at the national or the global level.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: So you can find that on the Voices for Voices Facebook profile and you can make plans to join us and to tune in, or you can tune in to past episodes.
• 2:54
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• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It'll be our fourth edition, which is just crazy.
• 3:10
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• 3:22
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• 3:27
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• 3:41
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• 4:00
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• 4:09
  Speaker 1: So, moving now to our episode, we interviewed this guest last year in season two.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Her name is Maggie Urbanwala and she works at the Summit County Public Health Department and her specialty is the recovery friendly workplace.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: So, maggie, thank you again for joining us.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we had such great conversation last year and we talked a little bit about the inception of the program, how it came to be, how your role came to be, what you were working on and how starting with a few organizations and still working through that awareness phase, and so I think for our conversation we can talk about, maybe, how 2023 ended and what things you have in mind, and how the community has and continues to embrace the program.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, thanks for asking.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I know that's a mouthful.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: That's okay.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love talking about it.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So 2023 ended with a really big surge in requests for our nalox boxes.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the word has officially gotten out about these nalox boxes, also known as opioid rescue kits, and so we have a lot of agencies and businesses that are interested in installing a nalox box at their locations, and that's amazing, because we would like them to be as commonly seen in businesses as an AED or a first aid kit, because it is along those lines it's there to help in case of a medical emergency on site.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: And so we have almost 200 nalox boxes out in Summit County, and so that's really great.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I think we started 2023 with about 10 to 15.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: And so it was a really busy year, yeah it's huge growth and it is.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: It's huge growth and, like was said on previous episodes by some of my colleagues, it really is, I think, helping to reduce stigma.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I can kind of remember a little over a year ago trying to convince some spaces that maybe it was a good idea to have a nalox box on site, and we now have people coming to us specifically asking and understanding that it's not encouraging use on site.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: It's not saying I don't trust my workers who work here.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: It's saying we just want to be able to help if possible if this situation arises.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: And you know, unfortunately overdoses are still relatively common.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: It's one of the leading causes of death.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: So we know that it's something that is better to have and you know, be able to respond quickly than not to have and feel powerless in that situation when you can easily help an overdose from becoming a fatal overdose.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: So that is how 2023 ended Very busy with our nalox boxes.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: And 2024 has started off with a bang with our recovery friendly workplace program.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: So we are still working on designating our early adopters.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So those are the first 15 businesses or agencies that come on board as recovery friendly workplaces, but we're nearing that number, so that's really exciting.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: We have recently designated Summit County.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: The executive's office is now a recovery friendly workplace and they employ, you know, a large number of individuals, you know through the county, and so it's really great to have stakeholders like that who obviously you know I'm right, they've got a pretty far reach, they employ a lot of individuals.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: So to have them kind of getting up and saying, yeah, absolutely, we're going to become a recovery friendly workplace.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: We support our workers, we're open to hiring people in recovery and we want to create a safe and healthy workspace for everybody.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and to dovetail off of that, you know the thought could be well, we're asking the community to do these things, but we might not as an organization as a whole, we might not be all bought in for whatever reasons.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: And so to hear that I think it's big because there's buy-in at the highest level and has, as you mentioned, a wide reach, and so there is there's buy-in and kind of walk in the walk of saying hey, come, come join us, literally because we are recovery friendly workplace and we believe in the program and we're we're walking the walk with you, so come join us.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I love.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I love that you said that I was going to say.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: You know, we love when people put their money where their mouth is, but it's a free program to participate in.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: So really, you know, it is really great to see some of these bigger agencies, well-known agencies and businesses walking the walk, like you said.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: So, you know, having the county say we support people in recovery, we want to get people in recovery back to work, you know gainful employment help them rebuild their lives is is great and you know to see them doing it is even better.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: You know I work for Summit County Public Health and so they, you know, absolutely walk the walk.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: You know I'm a person in recovery.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: They hired me for one.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: That is one of the reasons that they brought me on board is to utilize my lived experience and to be able to go out and talk to employers and reduce stigma by saying, hey, you know, I'm somebody in recovery, I am somebody who needed support at one time, benefited from the support that I got and was able to rejoin the workforce and be an asset to the teams that I joined.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's coming full circle.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I might not know exactly your specific situation and what specifically got you to this level, but I have a variation of that so I can help walk with you in kind of parallel paths of here, here's the resources.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: And then, as the individuals grow, maybe they start their own business or they have a leadership position and oh, by the way, we could become a recovery friendly workplace.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: And I think that just that the thought and idea has to be ingrained in those individuals that it might not be part of a corporate mission, vision and values.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, we want to make money, we want to produce this, we want to sell a high price, low cost, and while the stakeholders have an interest investors it really takes individuals at that high level to make that decision, because then that's a look on them and I say, oh, I don't want to look bad and maybe I don't have a stigma, but maybe my stakeholders do.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: And what am I going to do if I go to the next board meeting and I say, what about this recovery framework place?
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: What's this all about?
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Are you?
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: What's going on?
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: They're hiring practices.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Should we be concerned?
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: And I think the more people we get into leadership positions that have that emotional tie to recovery at some sense, whether it's from them, their family member, somebody that they know is what it's going to take.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it can be a thankless job, right, because we're getting out in the community and we're talking about the program and we're highlighting the workforces that are with us and at some point it's going to turn the corner and it's going to go from 15 to 40 and then 40 to 100.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the part, that that's the fun part, where it starts to pick up steam and then it can be some even in active recovery.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So it could be some down days of like, oh my gosh, is what I'm doing really matter and I really make a difference?
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Then we'll take a step back.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: We have to just make the time to take the step back and then we go wow, like from last year, this year, from this time, we have the Nalox boxes and, as you mentioned and Megan, on an early episode, talked about, we want to make these as common as ADs or fire extinguishers.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: That they just come with the territory Because you have one, because you reach out for one, doesn't mean that you have that issue today or that you're promoting that if you bring people in for interviews and they're like oh, they have this Nalox box, what's this all about?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Does this mean that there's people overdosing on the job, instead of going from that thought process to it's just part of the equipment that eventually, houses will have to have?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Besides, they have smoke and carbon dioxide detectors.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: That that's just something that comes with the territory.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so many things that you mentioned are what makes this project recovery-friendly workplace so exciting.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Right, because there's so many aspects that can benefit one or more groups involved.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Right, so you've got employers who are maybe, let's say, not having as productive of a workforce.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe there are a number of their workers that are struggling with substance use.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Instead of replacing that worker which is incredibly costly for any business people out there they know how expensive it is to replace workers they can help that worker, obtain the supports they need and keep them on.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: So we're improving the bottom line, right, saving money.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: We're increasing productivity.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Ideally, we know that people are more likely to shop at businesses that hire people in recovery or are outwardly expressing their support for people in recovery.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: So there's so many benefits just on that side.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Right, and then we know that substance use disorder and substance misuse are a relatively common phenomenon today.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Right, so we've got about 20 million people with an active substance use disorder, but we have more than that in recovery.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: And so, while this program can help support people who are struggling, right, because we know that 75% of people with a substance use disorder are working.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Right, so they can be reached at work.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: They can be helped through their benefits that their employer provides.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: They can go to treatment right.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: We know that we can also help people in recovery obtain employment right.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: So we're trying to really it's a really.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I'm obviously excited about this program because it really does a lot of different things.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: It can help people obtain recovery and help get the supports that they need Once that person has accessed recovery and has stabilized, help get them employment, which is a huge aspect of recovery right.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Being able to bring home a paycheck, being able to get your own place for the first time, being able to maybe get your own car, get a license, get your license back.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: There's so many different things that we know money can help right.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Help rebuild your relationships at home.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that somebody is going to be a lot happier if their spouse is bringing home a paycheck versus when they were not right.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: So there's a whole bunch of different things that this program can help to offer, and so we are just really excited, and we're excited that it's now becoming more well known all of the different benefits associated with the program.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Right, because it's easy for me to be excited about it.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I do this all the time.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: This is what I like eat, sleep and breathe, and so to hear people coming and whatever aspect drew them in, fine, that's great.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Whatever brought them in, brought them in.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: For some people it is that personal touch, right, so maybe they do have personal experience with substance misuse a loved one was able to recover or was not able to recover, right and so there's a lot of different reasons why people are drawn to this program, all of which bring them in and allows us to provide education and support and resources.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: So it is really exciting that it's picking up steam and we have a lot more people on board now and hopefully we see that rapid growth, like you said before.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: But every business that comes on is huge to us.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: It's one more business that is saying we support people in recovery, we care about our workers, we want to have a safe and healthy work environment, and so I'm happy, no matter what number we're at.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But it is great to know that people are really paying attention to what we're doing and all the benefits associated with it.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: You bet.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So the awareness of the program that exists, how do I get involved?
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: And then, even from a marketing standpoint, the business word of mouth is one of the best ways to get new business or the recommended product or a service.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: So to have those organizations that are in that early adopters to start joining the program, then their peers start to see that Like, oh, I didn't know this program was available, and then maybe that sparks a conversation.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: And sometimes I say people come out of the woodwork, sometimes we wonder how things are connected and sometimes we're not able to track exactly how things happen.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: But the look at data for as many things as we can.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: But sometimes it's a conversation at a dinner, at a trade show, at a conference, a board meeting and like, oh, okay, well, I didn't know this was possible for our organization, my son, my daughter, my nephew, somebody I know they could reach out and say, well, how did you learn about us?
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And I've learned also kind of in that startup phase of trying to get the word out and the branding and admission and the vision and the values, what we're looking to do, and it's hard to do, but when you're out there doing it, that some of those connections and some of that interest and I think, like you said, it started to pick up at the end of 2023 with the Nalox boxes that it's not just you and your team pushing well, that's part of the process but there's people that are starting to come and request and that is one of the early indicators that there's adoption, even if it's at a small level, to know that there is that adoption, that that can start to multiply over time.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think we make it.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: We're trying to make it as accessible as possible for businesses to come on right, we don't really want to make it overly difficult.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: And so I think, once they realize that we help them through every step of the process towards becoming designated, and then I think, like you said, word of mouth, I think that people may not think of a policy as a recovery friendly policy, right, but I think once they realize, oh, that's something that I would do or that's something I already do, I could be recovery friendly, sure, and so I think that that's been really cool and that is something that happens through word of mouth, absolutely.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: One colleague talking to another.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: One example is we had somebody that it was word of mouth that they met at a job fair, because a lot of businesses and agencies are stating that they're struggling to find workers, and so that's an issue, that is, it's a little bit more complex than that, right?
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: So, like was mentioned in an earlier episode, the age range of the folks that we are seeing the most fatal overdoses in, it's that working age population, right.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So 25 to 44.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's our workforce that we're losing through overdoses, right?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: So that is something that we're hoping to curb through this program, right, is to help them get supports and to prevent that fatal overdose, right.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And so I think once businesses start thinking in the way that, like maybe us public health folks, or we think a little bit more, and they kind of change those goggles to look at things from a different viewpoint, they see all of the benefits that this can offer, including finding workers.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: There is a huge untapped workforce out there, people in recovery, who may have had certain challenges that came up and left them with a criminal background, for example.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So I think, once I talk to employers and we talk about what it looks like to maybe expand your hiring practices, open them up to include people that you may be discounting right now.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: So we have had some employers look at their hiring practices and say, yeah, you know what.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: We are willing to consider applicants that might have certain blemishes on their background.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: We know that some of those blemishes are just a part of active substance use, right.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: And so I think that even that part of the program is incredibly exciting to me, right, and thinking about the fact that people who were not able to get a job previously because of their background may be able to now, and that's happening through a lot of different ways.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: We had some guests on last year who talked about expungement of records and different things, and so it's kind of an exciting time to be working on projects like this, because there's a lot of different groups at a lot of different levels working on the same things and I think it's overlapping to create some really needed possibilities for the recovery community.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Right, and I can kind of think of an organization, their goals to make money, and okay, if I hire or have on staff individuals that are in active recovery, then that's going to be additional health benefits I'm going to have to pay out.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: And so the bottom line of, oh, our profits and our sales and the costs or eating into it, and I mean it's just the nature of the beast If you're going through recovery, you may be going to some type of therapy or the psychiatrist, and so there's not just the wellness checks that are there, there's also these additional costs.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, we've seen this spike in benefit costs.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: What's going on?
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: And I know with a high degree of certainty one of the organizations I worked with before that is definitely something that's looked at overseeing an increase in healthcare benefit costs.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: What's driving this?
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: And then the part that really stinks is sometimes those individuals lose their job because once the organization finds out, okay, it's coming from this department and then within the department, we can drill down.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And so, even though there's HIPAA laws and all these things that are supposed to mask some of this information.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Going back to businesses, I know at least one for sure, unfortunately, and it stinks, and I venture to say that there may be other organizations that at the end of the day, they're like okay, how do we cut costs?
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: How do we do things?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Oh well, if we have a reduction in work force, then we're cutting the salary and these additional benefits.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: That's what that saying is about.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: We need to get, as a society, back to caring about the people and, yeah, money is important to make it making a living, but how much is too much?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: And and it just makes sense that if that was their son or daughter, wouldn't they want them to get care?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: If you know somebody is Expecting and pregnant, like what don't you expect them to go to a doctor?
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Or those costs are gonna come in to play at some Some points.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I think organizations I Just what I'm speaking about, that I know for personal experience that, but they seem to get out of that.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: It's all about the money.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: It it is about the money in partially, but we need to get back about people that, yeah, somebody's in recovery, somebody as a broken angle or broken lay, you're gonna expect there's gonna be certain Healthcare costs are gonna go with that for our cast if there's surgery, if there's rehabilitation, and I I hope that this is Getting through this.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry, I'm getting through to some organizations that may be thinking like that or have had that thought process, and there's new leadership that comes on board and they have that option to make make a call.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm on larity, the other that we need to get more human centered and by doing that it may mean opening up our hiring practices.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And the recovery friendly workplace is a great program.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: They said it's a free program.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: You all step by step with them.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's very little Costs in that sense to get started and and I came to you know this program ready to discuss the cost benefit analysis because that is something that you know.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't previously work with businesses in this capacity, but I've had to become a little bit more Business oriented right and and think in terms of a bottom line and things like that.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: And what was really cool to know is that it is More cost-effective to keep somebody in recovery on staff than to continue replacing people who are struggling with active substance use disorder.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Oh great, so that's perfect.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: It's wonderful and businesses love to hear it and I love to share it because it's true and we know that.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: You know, replacing workers takes about 22 percent of a person's salary, and so just to be continually paying out that much of a person's salary just to keep retraining and rehiring new people, when we could have kept a good worker who just needed a little bit of extra support on staff and we know that, you know I've come equipped with these- facts and figures right.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So we know that people in recovery take less unscheduled leave than their co-workers with no history of a substance use disorder.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: They stay with a single employer longer, which employers love to hear that because they don't want to have to keep rehiring and retraining people either.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: But people in recovery, especially if you have given them some aspect of additional support with their recovery, they have a high degree of loyalty to their employer in that manner, and so those are all great reasons to especially consider hiring people in recovery, right I?
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: love it to at the very least consider keeping on staff who just needs a little bit extra support.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: You know people in recovery are great assets to their teams in a lot of ways.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: You know they're good for morale and they actually end up utilizing less health care costs because they're more productive.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: People in recovery are used to having to think about their wellness, right, so we have to think about how am I feeling, how am I doing, what can I do to take better care of myself?
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And so we end up being healthier than the average on individual, which I love sharing.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it is something that employers think, okay, what's the cost of this?
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Gonna be right and actually you look at saving a lot of money.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: That that's great.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: So hopefully organizations hear that and that that overrules the other thought process.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: So we're at the end of the episode.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I know this time I'm very fast.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: How.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: How can people learn more about the program?
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Sure, so reach out to us at the health department, especially if you're a business or an agency that wants to learn more about the recovery friendly workplace initiative.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: We're always happy to help provide naloxone training and nalox boxes to businesses and agencies.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: So all of those things you can get for free through the health department, along with so many other resources that we have.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: But those are the two that are obviously near and dear to my heart.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining us, maggie, or a walla, and thank you to our audience, our viewers, our listeners.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: This has been another episode of the voices for voices TV shown podcast.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Until next time, I'm your host, justin Allen Hayes, founder and executive director of voices for voices, and Please be a voice for you or somebody in need.