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Book Club: Demystifying Disability · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and kind Stuff Will
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never Told You production of Virheart Radio forwer Today's book Club.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: We're talking about Emily Ladoo's award winning twenty twenty one
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: novel Demystifying Disability, What to Know, what to Say, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: How to be an Ally. This is a practical, approachable
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: book filled with quotes from people with all kinds of disabilities,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: that delves into some basics of talking about disability and
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: actionable steps to improve these discussions or just your interactions
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: with people. It also hammers home the point that, like
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: any community, disabled people are not a monolith and are
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: individuals with preferences when it comes to things like terminology.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: It's a book that doesn't fall to you for your
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: past mistakes, but is asking you to do better and
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: giving you the tools to do so.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Not only are.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: There breakdowns of definitions and schools of thought, but also
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: a history, a look into all the ways ableism can manifest,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: media representations of disability, and ways to be a better
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: ally both outside of and within the disabled community. It
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: tackles complex issues in a way that is easy to digest,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: shines a light on nuances and differences of thought, and
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: overall just packs so much in despite its short length.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Lado is also clear this is a starting point and
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: gives a lot of references or things to follow up
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: on throughout. I wish I had read it earlier, honestly.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Here is a quote from the author about the author
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: A little about me. I have multiple disabilities, including a
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: physical disability, a hearing disability, and mental health disabilities. I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: use a wheelchair because I was born with larcen Syndrome LS,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: a joint and muscle disorder that I inherited from my
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: mom Ellen, who also has it. You might think that
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: are both having LS is a tragedy, but we don't.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: And my humble opinion, it's pretty fantastic to have somebody
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: built into my life who just gets me. And I
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: would say, just go read it, like we're going to
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: go over some of it in here, But as always
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: with these book clubs, we want you to check it
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: out yourself, support authors yourself.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: But I also think it was it's just a really.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Useful breakdown of a lot of the the ways people
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: run into being too afraid to talk about disability or
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: not knowing quite what to say.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, so go read it, read it.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: It's not long.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: It's available in every as it actually have found it
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: in several libraries too.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and it's got cute illustrations.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: Great illustrations. Cover is wonderful mm hmmy, very approachable.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: You should definitely read it.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's essentially broken into like topics such as terminology
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: or allyship or media.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: But it really does.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: It packs so much in Like when I left after
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I finished, I was, oh, my gosh, I'll absorbed so
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: much information.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: This was great. Yeah.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's kind of the layout of it. But
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: we will go over as we like to do in
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: our book club episodes and themes. One I would say
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: is that it's just very informative. It's like around the
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: basics of talking about disability or just knowing about disability.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: So here's a quote one billion more than one billion
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: people around the world are disabled in fact, or the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: world's largest minority. And that comes constantly into play with,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: as we said, a community not being a monolith and
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: people having these differing ideas about how we should talk
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: about things in the language we should use, and that's
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: all really healthy discourse. But it's a huge it's a
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: huge community, and as we've discussed before, you can also
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: be temporarily able person. You might like break your leg
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and then suddenly you'll you'll be thinking about ramps or
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: stairs or something like that.
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: Right, there's definitely a lot to that. And then also
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: that conversation, like even with aging, that that becomes a
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: conversation about like your abilities and you're no longer able body,
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: quote unquote. And I think this is such a timely
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: of course, this month is very very important, why we
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: need to talk about it, and we should really highlight
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: more information about it. But like especially in conversations with
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: the recent bills passed again it's twenty twenty five, and
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: they co opting the word able body, which.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Really pisses me off to no wind.
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  Speaker 4: Really forgetting the years and years of work that disabled
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  Speaker 4: activists have been doing and talking about what able body
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  Speaker 4: meanings versus what it isn't and how it's being weaponized
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: and why this could be a problem, especially when we
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: talk about working and having equal rights all these things
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: as well as benefits, and why that is important for
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: the disabled community.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: And that it should be a human right. And this.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: Bill has gone backwards. So I would really love to
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: hear Emily's take, because in this book. I feel like
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: she packs a lot in we talk about it. It
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: feels almost overwhelming because you do hear the back and
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: forth of like, Okay, so I'm not supposed to do this,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: but I'm supposed to do this, but I did do this,
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: but this could be wrong to this person, which she
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: reiterates oftentimes that this is a personal preference in what
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: she's speaking, specifically the dos and don'ts, But like everybody's
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: an individual, and if you're truly in tune with that
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: conversation and in that alignment, just like you would ask
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: anybody pronouns wise, like all of that, that we should
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: ask their preference in how things are spoken, because different
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: people have different takes, which takes lot she talks a
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: lot about, So I know we're going to get into
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: two ideals I guess labels that I didn't really think
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: much of until she did it. But I think, yeah,
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: all of this is so very important, very but still introductory,
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: and I think that has a lot to do with
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: our ableism that is so ingrained in us, just as
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: much just misogyny is, like we talk a lot about,
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: like the internalized misogyny that was hard to let go of,
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: but we have to talk about the internalized ableism that
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: we don't think about and oftentimes we excuse us. Eh,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: they understand, but that's a problem that shouldn't.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Be the fact.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: But I know I'm going too far into this. There's
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: a lot there was, Like there's this back and forth
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: of every chapter, every page, saying something and then like
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: kind of reiterate another point. And you're trying to figure
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: out for yourself where you think you aligned, which is
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: a little bit selfish, but at the same time trying
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: to become.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Educated or more educated even before.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: Because some of these things that we've talked about before,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: we've talked about activists and their preferences and their understanding,
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: but like in understanding that we still have to take
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: apart some of the others such as like an infantilizing
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: such as the fear of doing something wrong. You know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: all these things which holds you back into not want
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: to interact with people.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: With disabilities, and it's just a it's overwhelming.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: But Sheily does a great job in trying to break
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: those down.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: She does, and she's very it's it's when the book
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: opens she says, you know, I wish I didn't have
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: to do this but we've got to do it because
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: nobody's talking about it. And these are these basics. But
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: she's also very I don't think non judgmental. I don't
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the right word is. But she's like,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I want you to learn more. I'm not trying to
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: shame you. I'm trying to say, we've all been taught
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: disablest ideal, all these ableist ideals, and I want us
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: all to become move on from that how we can.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: So she constantly saying like there's not going to be
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: a test at the end.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's going to be. We're gonna get through this.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: And also she allows for mistakes, yes, And just in
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: the same conversation we had with Joey when we talk
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: about like pronouns and understanding that you know, gender maybe
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: not as it seems, especially for specific people, and then
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: like trying to come into that and understanding that and
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: being a person who is learning, uh, these new languages
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: that that they've always existed, but previously we had a
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: different mindset and understanding about it. And as we learn
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: more and more and understanding that we are celebrating things
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: and therefore in celebration we also have to acknowledge where
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: this uh, where the knowledge is coming from, acknowledge the
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: knowledge in saying like I think we have oftentimes here
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: when people like say things like I don't like this,
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: I don't want this. This is offensive, and people are like, well,
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: if you're so mad about it, then do something about it,
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: and they have. Emily has like, I think that's the
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: kind of thing about The bigger question is before, before now,
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: we wouldn't even allow that, we wouldn't even hate that
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: as a as a knowledge, as information, as facts that
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: we need to understand. So there's so much to that
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: that she gives us. And in this I think she's
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: very understanding that it's still a stepping stone to unlearned
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: something is just as difficult to learn something. But we
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: all need to understand in this, in this pathways that
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: we're going to be wrong, acknowledge those wrongs, apologize honestly,
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: and then learn and grow with it. And that's that
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: her part that she's trying to say. I think in
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: this level of like, yeah, when you're not in this.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: World, it's it's something that you have to learn.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, And she's very open about instances in which she
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: has made mistakes.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: So She's also she makes clear.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: That she wants this to be an accessible book in
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: terms of it is let's just start.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: At one oh one and and.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Writes it very clearly and is not testing you, but
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: it's just giving you this tool, but like honestly giving
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: these tools because I remember you and I have had
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: discussions about we were worried about using the wrong the
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: wrong terminology. We just and I remember lamenting to Eves
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: once this isn't what we do. But I remember I
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: re lamenting to Eaves once that I felt like nobody
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: talks about things they think are too tough to talk about.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: And I think disability falls in that for a lot
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: of people, because they're so we've been so indoctrinated with
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: this idea that you don't talk about.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: It right, that you silence it, and it's an impolite, yes,
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: to even acknowledge it. M She even talks about the
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: historical context of having some terms that really go back
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: to using them as entertainment only and if not to
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: be silenced and put into the like to the darkness,
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: essentially like put away where you couldn't find that. And
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: we know that's been a historical thing all over the world.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: In the fact that still kind of happens. Of course,
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: that goes along also with eugenics.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: She does touch onto that, if I remember correctly.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: Yes, But of course that's not the entire book, although
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: that's a clear reminder of why these conversations are so
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: important that we don't do that again, don't.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: We don't fall back to that oral less see when
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: it's coming.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, she does talk about she has a history section,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: which she is very clear is very abbreviated and just
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: a jumping, jumping off point. But she does talk about
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: eugenics and the history of that.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: She also does talk about.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Disability and intersectionality and privilege a lot because she's a
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: white woman in a wheelchair, so she just talks about
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the differences and how she's treated versus other people. But
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: she also talks about judgment within communities. Again, this is
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the largest minority community in the world, so can't really
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: escape it. I could talk about that in the LGBTQ
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: plus community ad nauseum. But I think people sometimes if
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: they're outside of the community, assume like everybody agrees.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: But that's not the case.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: But yes, she also talks about ableism, right, Yes.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: And we got a quote here and it says, but
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: ableism takes a heavy toll. Too many disabled people have
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: been led to believe that our very lives are not
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: worth living. And if there's one thing, just one that
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: you take away from reading this book, let it be this.
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: That line of thinking is unequivocally untrue. Disabled lives are
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: worth living.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: Was talking about some tropes and any and I've actually
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: talked about this specific movie before and I refuse to
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: watch anything like this because it is there's something too
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: that's like, uh, why, I've seen many of people who
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: are entirely happy and are fine, I think this and
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: the same trumpe as like it's the end of their lives.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Tips like they're angry, they're hostile, they're all bitter about.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: The world, and that's not true.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: It's the same thing with like Forrest Gump, Like I say,
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: he eventually does find his joy, but this like trope
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: of like I'm angry because of this, this and this.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: I'm like he probably has more ptsded and anger. But
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: you know whatever, uh, and and understanding. There's just so
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: many people who would be seemingly able body who are
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: going through tough times and probably are are talking about
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: how they feel like life is not worth living because
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: of a like sepal wisom. But then that's the same thing.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: It's kind of like that level of like the reasons
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: are not because of this, The reason is because of this,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: like you know, like the differing it doesn't matter necessarily,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: and the way that we have to be like, oh no,
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: but you have to be so unhappy because you can't
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: do the A, B or C, which is so it
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: is truly offensive.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've talked about a lot of those. We'll
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: come back to some of those tropes later. But it's
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: sort of the like overcoming disability or fixing disability or
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: praying over disability.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: But she told me like she talks about being prayed over.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: I was like, no, he's a kid too.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: But we are going to talk about some of the
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: because one of the points she also makes is that
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: you know, if we had if things were accessible, if
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the government was providing for us, like then we wouldn't
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: have perhaps so much anchor, Like it's not coming from
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the disability necessarily, it's coming from the lack of support.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: Lack of support like, oh, we're going to talk so
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: much more about that. But I also think about the
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: fact that she talks about her dad, you know, and
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: finding that No.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: He's a normal person who loves his family.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: I don't understand why there's pity on him or like
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: extra good for you, like extra awards or for him
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: for me. And it's just there's just this level in
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: that conversation too. But she talks about but what about
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: the fact that you know, my mom and I are able
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: to bring this type of joy in and he loves
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: like we love him as which he loves us, and
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: we are an equal relationships, Like this is a necessary
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: tone to take and when it's just like, no, but
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: this is a marriage for family, I don't understand why
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: you're doing this in that level of well, like we
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: are happy, we are a happy family, and we have
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: just just the same stress, Like we have just as
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: much stress as the next family.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't really need to comment on you honestly.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: So that does bring us to the terminology, which I
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: really appreciate it because we have gone back and forth. Yes,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: so here's a quote. There's one thing we should address
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: right away. We need to stop using the word handicapped.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: It's an outdated term that's fallen out of favor with
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: most disabled people, and quite frankly, it makes my skin crawl.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Occasionally I'll find myself saying things such as handicapped bathroom
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: or a handicapped entrance because old terminology dies hard, but
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: there are better words to use. Talking about a person
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: disability is better than handicapped, pointing out a parking spot
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: with the blue lines it's accessible parking. And then she
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: also breaks down. So this is what we really have been, like,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: what should we do? Person first language versus identity first language?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: So person first language would be something like person with
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: a disability to stress that they are a person who.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Happens to have a disability.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Identity first language would be something like disabled person, where
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the disability is a part of their identity. People have preferences,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: but neither are wrong, And a running scene throughout this
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: book is just politely ask if you're not sure or
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you know, perhaps they might correct you, and don't be
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: defensive about it.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Right, and that, yeah, that was that bigger point.
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: It's like, if they correct you, if they care enough
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: about you and care enough to have a relationship with
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: you to be like, eh, I would rather you say
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: this about me, then you listen to that. My initial
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: reaction to any of body that corrects me, I freak out,
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: thinking that I've done the worst thing ever, and then.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: I spiral for days and just want to rod away.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: But she even makes a point about that, and she
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: was like, don't make this about yourself, and I was.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Like, well, damn, so there there's a lot to that.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: But really that's because.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: She was just like, it's just it's and it's fine,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: Like it means just as much if you listen and
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: respect that and then learn from that from then on.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: And I think that's back and forth.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: Is like as a show that we do, we talk
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: and make this about us, but trying to get it correctly.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: This is why I think like things like the activists
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: around the world, when I talk about them, I take
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: what they label they have labeled. Often I will quote
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: them in order to get it correctly. Of course, people
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: are like, why do you have them on the show?
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: We would love to, We would love to for the
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: short segments, it's not worth their time. But in the
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: biggest simms, we do love those types of interactions. Sometimes
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: we just have too much on our plate. All of
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: that to say, having that being able to see that
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: and if you don't have that, to ask that or
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: to say I apologize without pronunciations. We talk about this,
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: we're we try to do it. Sometimes we just can't
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: get the correct ones. And unfortunately we are single person
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: or two peoples, and we do best with what we have.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: But I absolutely appreciate when people do correct us and
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: doing this correctly. I have been saying handicap still because
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: that is the old language, but now, not knowing this,
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: I know it's gonna take me a minute. That's going
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: to take me a minute, and you probably have to
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: correct me in some things because I'll be like, okay, accessible,
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: that makes sense. But late we don't know, and later
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: in life, like ten years from now, that might change
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: through it and that's okay.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: We just roll with the times.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what we wrote about in the preface
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: to our book.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: By the way, we were like, right now, this is
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: how people are talking about these things, but it could change,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and that's not that right.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Other things that.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Happened that the author talks about, and these chapters are
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: hitting disabled people against each other, so low functioning versus
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: high functioning when it comes to ability, and all of
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that being kind of set to the standard of normal right,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: which what is that right? A parent versus not a parent,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: which is visible versus invisible. So some people have disabilities
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: that you can't see on first glance or something, but
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: pittying that against each other. And then there's medical model
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: versus social model. So here's a quote. The social model
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: emerged as a response to the incomplete perspective of the
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: medical model. According to the social model, people are disabled
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: not by medical conditions, but by environments, attitudes, and systems
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: that create barriers. As an example, through the lens of
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: the social model, I can attribute my status as disabled
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: to an environment that isn't wheelchair accessible, rather than my
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: medical diagnosis. So this is sort of like if everywhere
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: was accessible, then.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have a disability because I.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Could get anywhere, you know what I mean. So I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: thought that was a really interesting debate that people have.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: And then there's also common judgments or misconceptions. So here
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is one of I think my favorite quotes. It's important
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: to remember that if you've met one disabled person, you've
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: met one disabled person, and if you have a disability,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: then the only disability experience you're an expert on is
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: your own. Yeah, I think that's good to keep in mind.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: Right, and also even with someone else that has made
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: a similar diagnosis, that's different. Your persons and your treatments
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: are going to be completely different m a lot of
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: the times. So you can't put that onto that person
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: tell them they're doing something wrong.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And that's she.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Like we said, she has a lot of quotes from
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: other people with disabilities throughout the book, and she'll say
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: sometimes like I disagree with that, but I get where
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: they're coming from, and I think that that's important to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: be like, Okay, well that's your life, and I respect
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: that decision. And that's not how I feel, but I
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: respect that message. It's not hurting me. Also, it does
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: delve into, yes, using disability as an insult, and this
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: was something that I knew.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: It didn't surprise me, but I was like.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: So many of the stories she shared.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: What what people making these unsolicited like jokes, uh, praying
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: a child, praying over her, unwarranted, unasked leaning on someone's
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: wheelchair without asking, not knowing them, which I hadn't thought
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: about how invasive that was until I read this, and
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's real.
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: That's such an odd thing because that's someone's I mean,
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: for her, that's how she moves, that's a part of her.
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: But for me, in like before I read that, I
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: was like, oh, absolutely, which I should have thought of
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: it that way. But in my head, it's also their property.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: They pay for this, you know, like this is costly equipment.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: I like, I understand that. Why would you like it
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: just doesn't seem and also you who don't know how
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: stable it is, how it functions, there may be this
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: like type of manufactures, you know, like you never know
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: because people have to do with what they have. Unfortunately,
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: because this country is when it comes to again disability
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: rights and providing the right stuff and equipment and oftentimes
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: we'll give you with the most minimal thing and also
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: like allowing for abilities and so if you know, you
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: don't know, you don't know what this is. So to me,
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: I'm like, what even in like a hospital, when they
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: have the ones that are like kind of more accessible
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: for uh, the the actual hospital to use themselves for
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: different patients, I would not touch those. Yeah, So that
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: just baffled me in first place.
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: I was like the audacity, Yeah, especially if because she
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: makes clear like you know you might have a friend
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: you're cool with and you've communicated with, Yeah, that's okay
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: for you to do, but like strangers.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah even still like you're like, m like the only
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: way is like if you had permission to be like
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: do you want me to push you here and there?
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: And then I put something like with yours something do
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: you mind holding this or do you mind.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Like as with anything like that?
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: Just yeah, odd odd some of these things that she
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: was and of course like of course because people have
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: Noku and also the ableism and those really have this
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: like level of like yeah, this is part of my
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: you're in my space type of thing, or you're taking
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: like there's so much to this in this conversation again
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: of like entitlement, but like yeah, I just could not
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: imagine the leaning on somebody's wheelchair, which can and why why?
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: And I thought they were there was this whole thing
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: where like.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you saw this debate, and I
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: know you shouldn't be part of the book club, But a
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: woman is at the Disney World saw a really cute
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: pink wheelchair and she decided she would to take it
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: because her daughter was tired. It was sitting in front
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: of somewhere and everybody was like, uh, you just took
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: someone's property, what the like? And it just sparked the
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: whole debate about like who has like who's this and
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: who's that? And they're like, no, Disney definitely has their own,
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: and I think they do have like their own, but
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: you also have to check them check them out.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I'm pretty sure you have to check them out.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: And so I'm like, why was still what the is someone?
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: If you you're just tired, why would you why would
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: you do this? Why would you do? Yeah?
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: And also I get very frustrated with people who's part
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: too close to handicap spaces because they they may need
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: they need that extra space, you don't know why. Therefore
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: they are again the invisible disability stuff like.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: They may have why are you in anybody's business?
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: People love policing that, and I'm not to say people
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: will abuse it, but when my dad had like a
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: cancer and he had the handicap, people would come up.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: They'd be like, you look, fine, he's got he had
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: a cane and everything, but they would come up to
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: him and I'm like.
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: Jez okay, again the audacity and does and then again
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: She's right, it doesn't make sense that this is people's
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: business or this is people's entitlement, and it's more likely
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: to happen to the people of the disability community like
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: it may yeah.
• 27:41
  Speaker 7: Why yeah, And she does talk about I think a
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: lot of people are trying to prove that they're like cool,
• 27:52
  Speaker 7: like they're not.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I see your disability and I can lean on your
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: wheelchair because I'm not freaked out by it. But the
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: truth is, you're not handling it well. You're making the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: person uncomfortable and you're making it all about you. Like
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of that vibe of like both
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: laziness or like not caring, but also trying to prove
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: oh but I'm an ally when you're really the opposite
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: doing the opposite thing.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: The same thing is again the prayer thing, like we
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: really are telling them there's something. You're telling them there's
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: something wrong with you. Like that's that's such a judgmental level.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: Feel like, first of all, we all know how we
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: feel about this type of religion anyway, but the audacity
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: to do that as well as people who have the impoliteness,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: I guess, the again, the able ism to think that
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: you have the right to speak.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: On someone else's disability once again, whether.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: It's to ask tons of questions that is not your
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: business or be like, oh, I'm trying to do the
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: whole I relate, I want so well. Once upon a
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: time I stuffed my toe type of thing. Type of
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: conversation you're like, this is this is odd, like in
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: order to like to be like, oh, I'm I'm I
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: understand you type of thing like.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: That's not empathy, that's that's odd.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: But as well as like the people who are like, yeah,
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: but I'm sure you'll be fixed soon. I know God,
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: God has plans to do this for you as if
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: again that like over patronizing of like pity and sympathy
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: when no one asked for that, and again a lot
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: of like the bigger conversation, it's like, no, you know you,
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: what you really need to be pity about is calling
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: your congressman and telling them this is like I need
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: medicaid without loss of this and having a job or
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: having an earning and all these things like this is
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: the wrong way to go. You are not looking at
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: what the big problem could be and solving for me
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: the person who is disabled, or for a disabled person
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: so it's such just a whole thing.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: And I think that's really the truth of it is
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: they don't want to solve the problem of it, and
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: they don't want to look at in the eye or
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: admit the truth of yes, we're not helping or supporting people.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: But also if somebody prays over like if you if
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you're none of our listeners did this, but if you did,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: that's something where you're essentially I would feel I'm not
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: saying everyone would feel this way, but then I would
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: feel like you're telling me God made me this way,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: perhaps because I did something wrong, right, and now I'm I.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Must depend on prayers to fix what's wrong.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: That's is just a terrible thing to do somebody who's
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: just going about their day.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: There's also this lettle like, yeah, do you really think
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: you're perfect just because you have this one ability that
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: I don't have?
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: Baby, I think you need to look at me or
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: to start praying for yourself if you really want to
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: fix them.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I did a She made that point several times, like,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: not everybody's the everybody has different abilities that they can
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: do the same thing, right, But yes, she also does
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: have a chapter on media, and I just want to
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: throw in here she was on Sesame Street. You can
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: still find the clip. I found it earlier today. She
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: was on there as a child. But she does get
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: through a lot of the tropes, some of which we discussed.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Inspiration porn might relate to what we've just been talking about.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: It's kind of idea of able bodied people making themselves.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Feel better, right.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: I think she takes it a one step further saying
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: pity porn. And we've talked a lot about this, whether
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: it's like, oh, you're so inspirational, this, this is the
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: only thing you have, right, so brave, you're so brave
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: for existing type of conversation. Again, like, there's so much
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: to this layers because we talked about that with people
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: like who've gone through a hard life and as a
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: queer person, as a person of color, so like all
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: of these things that they really want the sob story
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: so they can feel good and think that they're saving you,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: which is again, yeah about you, right, And then once
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: again thing yeah, they thank god I'm not them type
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: type of conversation, and you're like that, I'm so grateful.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: I have so much to be thankful for. When you
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: look at that's such a like connoissance. That does make
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: me want to punch somebody.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's just And we didn't go into it,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: but again go read the book. But in the Ableism
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: chapter that quote that we included, she was talking about how,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: you know, we don't talk about it, but that is
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: every day, every time I go outside, every time I
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: interact with somebody, like it's just there. And how exhausting
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that is. When she is living a very fulfilling life, right,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: but she has this thing right where people see her
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: and just have to call it out.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: I don't believe her.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my goodness.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: So the final chapter is about ally ship and we've
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: already talked about some of this, but she's really big
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: on you know, when in Dell ask politely whatever it is.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: She even has a whole thing about like some people
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: prefer if you're in a wheelchair, they prefer the person
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: to kind of kneel down to their level, and some
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: people prefer that you don't. Right, So like when in
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: doubt ask politely, it is the person in questions decision,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: but it's all about respect. So many of these things.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not dismissing any of this at all,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: but so many of the things with the stories of
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: the bad actors.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, do you not know how to treat
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: people right? People right? Don't do that right?
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: And then then again like the asking part, there is
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: that part of like, no, but I'm not sure, so
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: I don't know how to handle this. It shouldn't discourage
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: you from getting to know people and getting to know
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: anybody who might have a disability. So in that conversation
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: she's I think she talks about she doesn't love people
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: crouching necessarily unless she knows them. She would rather use
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: stand from a distance so that she can have the
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: conversation without creating her neck or any of that such.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: She's talked about people with like being deaf and how
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: they communicate and making sure we understand not to take
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: things or to like block things, just being really like
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: conscientious on how we communicate with that. But again she
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: understands that this can be difficult for people who may
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: not have interacted with different people of different abilities again
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: or disability, so all of those things like it is,
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: it can be confusing in some of the ways we talked.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: She talks about people who are nonverbal having like the
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: writing pads and all of that. So it is interesting
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: in that she does take to account that different people
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: can have for my own, you know, our own invisible disability,
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: which is the anxiety that skyrockets that makes me shut down,
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: like what do we do? How do we do this
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: without having a full panic attack about it? Like having
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: that understanding and grace and that this could be is
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: it is. For some people it can be a little
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: bit hard to navigate, maybe because of their again, their
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: own disabilities and having to work through that as well.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and it ends on a very she has
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: a whole section on disability etiquette, but it does end
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: on a you know, we're all learning. This is an
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: ongoing process, keep learning, which I think is a great message.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: So here is a final quote. This means that the
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: first step to being an ally is unlearning this misconception
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: and recognizing that disabled people aren't in need of saving.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: We're in need of a world that recognizes our rights
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: and our humanity without question.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, m hm.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: It's it's a really good book, really really recommend it.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a very and it's very infformative, but
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: it's short, you get a lot, you learn a lot
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: out of those pages, So yes, go check it out, listeners.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: If you have any recommendations for other books that we
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: should do, you can email us at Hello at stuff
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Wenever Told You dot com. You can find us on
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Blue Sky at molst a podcast or on Instagram and
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: TikTok at stuff I Never Told You for us on YouTube,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks, It's always too our Super sixteena
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: our excepted produce and Maya and a contributor Joey. Thank
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never
• 36:33
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• 36:35
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• 36:38
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