Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / This world is constant Pain & Hardships! (Ft. Sheikh Mohammed Al-Hilli)

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This world is constant Pain & Hardships! (Ft. Sheikh Mohammed Al-Hilli) · After Maghrib 🌙

0:00
Smila Rahman, Rahim Salaam Alaikum and welcome back to the
0:04
Aftermath of podcast. It's a brand new week and we're
0:06
having a brand new conversation. In today's episode, we want to
0:10
look at where do we stand in understanding Allah, Subhanahu
0:13
Matala, possibly his adale, when it comes to the calamities and
0:18
the trials and the tribulations that we face or possibly our
0:22
loved one face. We may have friends, family
0:24
members who are going through very, very difficult times.
0:27
And before we get inshallah, today's conversation, I can't do
0:31
this episode alone. As always, Ahmed, the Gokul,
0:34
Salaam Ali. Hello from Salaam Allah, I keep
0:46
saying. That Allah, how are you?
0:47
Allah I'm OK bro, like you said, new day, new conversation.
0:53
I'm really excited to get into it.
0:55
It feels like there's a a growing need to have a
0:57
conversation like this. The world we live in around us.
1:01
I think on a global level and even on a like on a local level,
1:05
we are everyone is going through something, whether it's the
1:09
financial crisis in the UK, the cost of living, whether it's the
1:13
war in Gaza and and the way people are suffering there.
1:16
Everyone is feeling something. And of course, in our day-to-day
1:19
lives and our interactions, we ask the question a lot of times,
1:22
where is our last panel to Isla and, and, and how do I turn to
1:26
him in times of need? So we thought about who would be
1:30
the best person to have joined us for this conversation.
1:33
And we couldn't think of anyone better than our own teacher,
1:36
Sheikh Mohammed Ali Ali. Khan Salaam, how are you doing?
1:44
It's a great pleasure and an honour to.
1:46
Be with you and thank you for coming for.
1:48
The kind invitation and finally I get to be in the famous.
1:52
Afternoon studio, that's an honour to be.
1:55
That's an honour for. Me, we're delighted to be in
1:57
your presence. Thank you.
1:58
Conversation we we've tried to have, by the way, a very long
2:01
time. We always discuss between
2:02
ourselves. We need Sheikh Mohammed Ali.
2:04
We've been messaging about for about a year, A year good.
2:09
Things come to those who wait. There we go.
2:12
Before we get into the conversation, we have a a ritual
2:16
that we do for guests who come onto the podcast, maybe to get
2:20
to know them outside of the podcast or maybe something about
2:23
them, their ambitions, which maybe people would want to know
2:26
the question, which, well, actually there's there's two
2:29
questions we're going to ask. Ahmed, Ahmed, what are you doing
2:32
on your phone? Sorry bro, I'm ohh work Oh my
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Where did you have a beta label SLAM stand?
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And this is one of the many things that I'm, I'm, I'm
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learning today using this app. You all love about Thakalane.
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How many times have we referenced them throughout our?
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Conversations, it's insane, it's absolutely insane guys.
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And to be honest, now you can do the same because we are now
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including the aftermarket podcast as well.
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Make sure you download Thakka Lane.
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And not only downloading it, but supporting Thakka Lane in the
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work that they're doing said why should they support Thakka Lane?
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Because supporting Thakka Lane is the same as supporting after
3:23
Maghrib. We have the same mission, the
3:25
same cause and the same end goal.
3:26
And that's getting closer to Allah.
3:28
Subhanahu who? What are Allah?
3:31
Guys, see you soon. Back to the episode.
3:33
The first one I asked you before, but I'm going to repeat
3:35
it on camera because I think it's a good question.
3:38
If you could speak at any, any centre worldwide and bearing all
3:43
the factors in mind, the attendance, what you can talk
3:46
about, the language, so on and so forth, which centre would it
3:48
be? Well, I mean I love all the
3:52
centres. That's a diplomatic answer and
3:55
every centre serving Al Bait, raising the flag of Sayidah
4:00
Shahadab Abdullah Hussain Ali Salaam deserves a praise and
4:04
encouragement to keep going. I think the centres worldwide,
4:08
especially in the Western world that are encouraging English and
4:11
are pushing for the English language as a primary language
4:14
whereby Majalis are given are are are great.
4:18
There's quite a few actually. I'd say maybe I'd I have a
4:22
favorite in every continent or in every country.
4:26
Let's say more specifically in Canada, probably the Jeffrey
4:31
Community Center, JCC in Toronto.
4:34
It's a lovely community there. That's probably one of my
4:38
favourites. You have in America the
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community in Houston, TX, in New Jersey and Dallas and you know
4:48
in California, Mashallah there there are so many.
4:51
According to some research, there are about 250 centres in
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the United States and a lot of them are seeking English
5:00
maginas, which is a a really good step going forward.
5:05
And just as a second question, if you had to put together say,
5:10
Musaba Suda, I'm just going to ask this year, so we'll just
5:14
have this question. I'm just going to ask it.
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If you had to put together a team of sheer Avengers, 5
5:22
Avengers, they could be experts, they could be academic scholars,
5:26
reciters, it could be a member of the community.
5:29
Who would you put in that team? Like, you know, Superman tough.
5:33
Question, I'd say, you know, do they have to be alive?
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Or no, no shake on my feet for example.
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Anyone you like? Any human being.
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Anyone well there? Had to be, of course, the the,
5:47
the masumin and the how. How can I put anyone above the
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you should have said they're alive or non masumin.
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But no, you can't say that anymore.
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But I'd say the Prophet Amirmum Hassanimam Hussain and say the
6:02
father. I said I would say they're the
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best of God's creation and I would always put them first.
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As we should in our lives, Absolutely.
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Let's kick off inshallah. I think that's a nice light
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hearted way to start saying that.
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Where should we begin? Good question.
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There's too much responsibility on me now, but I leave that on
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on the shark's shoulders. Scheckner.
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I I think let's begin here. Yeah.
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I mean, we all face a time in our lives.
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We have moments where either we're in the lowest of our low,
6:35
even in our highs of our high. Other people might be envy of
6:39
us, might be jealous of us. Whatever it is, we find some
6:42
form of difficulty, whether it's in our marriages, whether it's
6:46
in our workplace. A lot of people find the most
6:49
difficult time during a divorce. For example, Yanni, we always
6:54
find ourselves asking a common question.
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Why does Allah, Subhanahu Attallah make our lives
7:01
difficult? And if we are facing A level, a
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degree of difficulty, where can we find a law within this?
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Where is God? So I think the first thing to
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remember is the premise by which we look at things in life.
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You know, if I, for example, want to buy some tools for
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decorating a house, right? And I go into a hospital and I
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keep asking, excuse me, where do you sell the paint?
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They're like, no, no, no, no, you're in the wrong place.
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So I've come in with an expectation that I'm supposed to
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find something in a particular building, but it's totally a
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wrong premise. Most of us are in this world
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thinking I should live in a, in a, in a lifestyle or in a kind
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of state in which there's no pain, there's no suffering,
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there's no difficulties, there's no hardship.
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The default is actually, it's a world of trials.
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It's an existence of pain. It's an existence.
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It's how it should be, otherwise is actually the not the norm, so
8:04
to speak. And in fact, there's no human
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being who will go through this existence, this Junya, except
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that they would have to go through different degrees of
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pain and suffering, right? So once I'm changing the way I
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look at everything, my expectations when dealing with
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hardships in lives and difficulties will immediately
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change. I remember once, many, many
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years ago, I was in Milton Keynes, living in Milton Keynes,
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and I had a knock on Sunday morning and, you know, I opened
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the door. It was those Jehovah's
8:35
Witnesses. Yes, I'm sure you did, Right.
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So I looked at him and then I, I, you know, I, I would always
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remember this story because he looked at me and said, can I ask
8:45
you a question? So I'm thinking, you know,
8:47
before recognizing he's a Jehovah's Witness, I'm thinking
8:50
he needs help or whatever. Immediately by his question, I
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kind of clocked it. He said why there's so much pain
8:55
and suffering in the world and it's a very interesting Ave. to
9:00
enter into a conversation to try and promote your, your, your
9:04
ideology and your beliefs because it's such a universal
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thing. Everybody goes through it,
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everybody experiences it in different degrees, right?
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And Imam Hussein Ali Salam mentions this unbelievable line,
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you know, on the way to Karbala, which, you know, forms the basis
9:21
of these kind of discussions. He says anasu abido dunya people
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are slaves of this world would be nullah econ Allah alsina.
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To him, religion is something that they utter just on the tip
9:31
of their tongues for either Morrisu bilbela cola de Yanon.
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When people are shaken by hardship, those who turn to God
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or those who experience the beauty of religion or faithful
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become less so less people turn to God at times of hardship
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because it's hard, it's difficult.
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And hence this person would ask me this particular question.
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I remember looking at him and said this is a great question.
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I'm happy to discuss with you, but I just want to let you know
9:58
that I'm a student of Islam and I'm learning religion myself.
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To which he looked at me and says it's OK, I'll move.
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On to the next house, so. So so so it is.
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It is an Ave. to prey on people's faith.
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So if somebody out there has gone through a really difficult
10:18
experience in life, a trauma, it, it's possible that they will
10:22
be either brainwashed or somehow told to leave religion.
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That's why I experience and I see unfortunately, people who've
10:29
lost loved ones or become bankrupt.
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I remember, you know, reading about businessmen who've lost
10:34
billions or millions and then throwing themselves on the the
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track in front of the train because they can't deal with it.
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It's it's not something they can furthermore comprehend.
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People in our communities, for example, they go through a
10:46
traumatic experience like divorce or mistreatment by
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somebody when their reputation is tainted.
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And all of a sudden, what do they do?
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They think, I'm going to stop praying.
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I'm going to take off my hijab. I'm not going to be a Muslim
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anymore. Why is God doing this to me?
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So it's all about expecting God to make everything brilliant and
11:06
smooth for us. And somehow we have this
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obligation on the law. Excuse me, Why are you making me
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go through this? This is not fair, you know, And
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the lost planet, Allah says, yeah, you need Allah.
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Allah doesn't need you, right? So you've got to just change the
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world view or the the the way in which we kind of approach these
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kind of have. We been programmed wrong our
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mindset when it comes to these difficulties with God.
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Well, I think human beings, as the Quran says, are more geared
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towards comfort and relaxation and pleasure.
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That's what we like to do, right?
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We like to be not hurt. A beautiful example I remember
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reading when I was researching this area many, many years ago
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is a child and they're going through vaccination, right?
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When a baby is being vaccinated, they often cry, right?
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I don't think we've ever seen a baby say, oh, Marshall, thank
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you so much. I think I need that, you know,
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please vaccinate me. But the people who aren't
12:12
actually upset usually are the parents or the mother can get
12:16
because usually emotional or say, you know, I don't like to
12:18
see my patient cry, but but you know, intellectually or she
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knows. And obviously the father knows
12:23
usually as well as the doctor that this is better for the
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child. You can't see that.
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The child can't see that, but the child can only see that it's
12:30
bad and feels that there is unnecessary suffering, right?
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So perhaps from a young age, because of the way human beings
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are nurtured or brought up with the kind of care and attention
12:46
of parents, that's why, you know, sometimes it's a
12:48
discussion that we can have. And that is, you know, in this
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day and age, perhaps our youngsters are not as roughened
12:54
up as our parents and elders. You know, they say back in the
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time they used to go through really tough times, now the
13:01
smallest thing. And everyone was like, no, no,
13:03
no. You know, people once they joked
13:05
in a center, we were giving a magic listen.
13:07
All of a sudden we hear ladies and gents screaming.
13:09
And there was a rat that passed through to them.
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A rat. You scream, you're saying you
13:16
want a sacrifice fight for Imam and Mehdi.
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You can't stand the rat that's just passed through you.
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I mean, what's going on? Are you actually ready or are
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you just saying that you're ready?
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So these are the things we have to keep in mind.
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For sure. There's there's so much that
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comes to mind, Shechna. So the first thing is I, I feel
13:32
very bad for the Jehovah's Witness who knocked on your door
13:35
and a little did he expect Shechna to be on the other side
13:38
of the door? So I hope he's doing OK.
13:40
I'm sure he's doing fine. The I think a lot of us may
13:45
confuse and, and like I said, Ali said, be programmed to a
13:49
degree where we confuse we, we misinterpret Allah spun to Allah
13:52
Zahma and the question I remember when I was young,
13:55
someone asked me, they said how can Allah be merciful and just
13:59
at the same time, And justice implies fair treatment, be that
14:03
punishment or reward to, to to a person.
14:07
But at the same time, I lost Pontala as merciful and mercy
14:09
implies lenience and, and you know, giving good tidings,
14:14
perhaps when not deserved. And an interesting concept is
14:18
the vaccination one. And we've discussed this as
14:20
well. So a similar context in the
14:22
past, but for those who look at what they would call Allah's
14:28
punishment on them, are they meant to look at it as Allah's
14:32
justice? Or even, to take it one step
14:34
further, could they interpret this as mercy?
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It's a such an important question.
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And I think what needs to happen is when we without knowledge and
14:42
without understanding how everything works, we will
14:45
definitely interpret things wrongly.
14:47
And that's why it's so important.
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I know people watching, listening, you know, perhaps
14:52
have gone through an experience in their life where they're
14:55
asking these questions why, why, why.
14:56
And I think it's the why that really kills people.
14:59
They can't really give an explanation because as human
15:01
beings, we love to associate an explanation for everything.
15:06
You know, we hear of somebody tragically dying, Why did they
15:09
die? We hear of a disease spreading,
15:11
what happened, who started COVID-19, why did this take
15:15
place? So we're looking for conspiracy
15:16
theories because we want always the root of where the problem
15:19
started, right? Whereas Islam actually
15:22
encourages us more to focus on how I'm going to deal with it
15:25
and how I'm going to actually process and what kind of impact
15:30
will it have on me as an individual.
15:31
But here's the question that I'd like to ask, which is important
15:34
in this discussion for us to have a, a clarity of thought as
15:37
to whether it's justice of God or the mercy of God.
15:40
And that is one of my favorite absolutely amazing stories,
15:43
which if it was in the world of hadith and not in the Quran,
15:46
people would have dismissed is the famous story of Moses Musa
15:49
Ali Salaam and Hever right? Musa Ali Salaam is being asked
15:54
by a lot to find somebody who is so knowledgeable that he has
15:58
some knowledge that Musa doesn't have and knowledge that's not
16:01
normally given to people about how Allah's will and decree
16:05
works in this world. We all know this story without
16:07
going into detail. I just want to mention the
16:09
second part where to many people it's quite shocking.
16:12
And if you speak to a non-muslim or a non-Muslims watching this,
16:15
they're like what? Whereas where Moses Musa sees
16:20
Heather doing something where he's outraged in the Quran in
16:22
chapter 18, and that is where he kills an innocent child.
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Yes. And so when I was reflecting a
16:30
few months ago and continuously, you know, pondering and it's an
16:33
ongoing process for us about the suffering that's happening in
16:37
Gaza with the indiscriminate killing of thousands of
16:40
children, where last year there was these earthquakes in Turkey
16:44
and Syria where over 60,000 people died, where in COVID,
16:47
millions of people died. And then people asked the
16:50
question, why do bad things happen to good people, but
16:52
especially the innocent, the children, right?
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A child, you know, hasn't done anything wrong because if it's
16:59
justice or is it's mercy or anything like that, if it's
17:02
punishment, why should a child be punished by God?
17:06
But they didn't really commit anything or any sins.
17:09
And this story actually has the key to unlocking a lot of
17:13
understanding if we ponder over it and I try and simplify it
17:16
very quickly. And that is Moses complaints or
17:20
objects. Heather tells him, look, I told
17:22
you you won't be able to deal with this later.
17:24
He explains right that and by the way, we believe Heather is a
17:28
prophet. He's might assume he is somebody
17:31
whom a lot raises in the Quran. He has special knowledge.
17:34
So what he did was good and Allah says it was good.
17:37
So imagine now and we tell our kids Moses, Heather, God, they
17:42
all killed an innocent child and like why?
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Why would an innocent child be killed by God Approved tick yes,
17:49
well done, good, good, good. I agree.
17:50
I agree. Right.
17:51
So how do we kind of start to put everything together?
17:55
Well, the Quran tells us that later on, Kither tells him that
17:58
it's because when this child would have grown up, Allah knows
18:02
in his knowledge and he doesn't make anyone forced to do
18:05
something. He has free will, but he knows
18:07
because he's the Lord, that this child would have become a tyrant
18:10
and he would have oppressed his parents.
18:12
Fine. But then the question that's now
18:15
asked is that he was punished before he committed the crime.
18:21
I remember reading Imam Ali Salam once saying Abdulrahman
18:24
Mujam and Abdulrahman, his killer would say to him in your
18:27
head book, I love you. And Imam says, no, you don't.
18:30
And he repeats it three times. And Imam says, no, you don't.
18:33
So when he went, people said to him, yeah, he's telling you he
18:36
loves you. Why are you rejecting his love?
18:39
He says it's because he's going to kill me.
18:40
So they said, yeah, Ali, then should we don't kill him before
18:43
he kills you? He said, how can I punish him
18:45
before he has he's done committed the crime.
18:47
So now the question is, why is Allah punishing this young boy
18:51
when he hasn't yet become the 70 year old who's become a tyrant
18:55
and an oppressor, right? It's a legitimate question.
18:58
And if it doesn't, if it, if we don't find the answers, it's
19:01
easy for people to walk out of religion or Islam and say, now
19:04
this doesn't make sense to me. To be honest I I find it hard to
19:07
comprehend. Simple way of looking at it is
19:09
this. This young boy after being
19:14
killed by river is going to immediately go to paradise?
19:18
John. There's no other way right?
19:21
If Allah had let him live, he would have ended up in hell by
19:24
his own. Actions.
19:26
Actions, not God. Yeah.
19:28
Yeah. So now, at 14, he goes to
19:31
paradise and lives happily ever after.
19:33
Truly not like Hollywood movies all right, but lives on by God's
19:37
permission and is in hell. So now is it better for the boy
19:41
to be to die at 14 or to live till 17100%?
19:46
To die at 14? OK.
19:47
Is it punishment of God or an act of mercy?
19:50
So act of mercy is actually better for him, right?
19:52
If we are given a choice, listen, Allah knows if you live
19:55
up to 70, you've got a lot to answer for.
19:57
But if you are, if, if God takes your life at 14, you're straight
20:00
to gender. I think if you're sane out
20:03
there, and most of us inshallah are, we would have picked the
20:06
option of dying at 14, even though we would look at
20:09
everything to be, you know, unfair so to speak.
20:12
But it's not, is it so? But some people might ask, but
20:15
why would a prophet have to kill him?
20:18
You know, that sounds a bit violent.
20:20
Well, if the Prophet hadn't done it.
20:22
Allah would have maybe taken his life away naturally, as he does
20:26
for every for any other human being.
20:28
But then if you hadn't killed him, it wouldn't be found in the
20:32
Quran as a story noteworthy for us to learn from.
20:35
So it has to be something extraordinary for it to be in
20:37
the story. So he commanded his prophet to
20:39
kill him, just like how he would command an Angel of death to
20:42
take his life away. Except that the first one was a
20:44
bit more graphic, so to speak. But it's still the same outcome,
20:48
right? It's the same outcome.
20:49
So in, in brief, very, you know, to conclude what on this issue,
20:53
the issue, the, the thing we have to remember is when I'm
20:57
looking at the suffering and the killing of innocent souls and so
21:00
to speak, and I can't understand it, it doesn't mean that it's
21:04
actually bad. Because this whole notion of
21:07
evil and pain and suffering is all subjective.
21:12
I look at it from my lens, God looks at it from his lens.
21:16
But the lens that matters is a lot.
21:19
Not my lens because mine is. Yeah, this.
21:21
Hey, mine is very limited. Now with this a bit of knowledge
21:25
I'm sure the respected viewers on the listeners would have
21:28
thought 35 minutes ago, you know what?
21:30
I'm finding it hard to explain a child being killed by a prophet
21:34
but then all of a sudden after reflecting for a minute or.
21:36
Two more sense. Makes a bit of sense.
21:38
That boy is actually chilling in gender now and I'm you know, and
21:42
if he had lived by a last knowledge, he would have, you
21:45
know, stuff he would have gone to hell.
21:47
So he's actually in a better place.
21:49
So it's not. That bad.
21:51
I know we said that we wouldn't get into philosophy before the
21:54
podcast and talk about the what tazzle is and actually opinion
21:58
of God's goodness. And, but there's obviously, like
22:01
you said, there's that, that, that limitation that we have our
22:04
lexical notion of goodness and justice is, is it's limited to
22:09
what we understand in this society, You know, the, the
22:12
language of English and how we've been raised and what the
22:14
moral compass of society tells us is good and bad.
22:17
So we, it will be hard for us, like you said, without the, and
22:20
without the, the, the desire to learn to understand what is good
22:24
and, and what is bad. One thing which I know says and
22:26
I talk about a lot is the mental health angle and also the Iman
22:32
angle, like the effect on one's Iman when I'm going through
22:36
something difficult, how do I keep persevering, not even to
22:40
the point where I'm gritting my teeth in worship to Alaskan, to
22:44
Allah, Like I'm just tolerating it.
22:46
And I'm not like Yanni. I'm I'm just bearing it, you
22:51
know, half heartedly, but rather to the point where I'm content
22:53
with it and I'm embracing it and I'm comfortable with a last
22:56
month. Allah, you've willed this on me.
22:58
So I'm accepting of it and I, I give myself to you.
23:02
And if you want to throw more at me, I'm at your service.
23:05
How do we get to the point where when a calamity hits us, we're
23:09
prepared for it? Because I was discussing in the
23:12
car on the way here with a friend and we were talking about
23:15
the concept of the shadow of oneself.
23:18
Basically, how inside all of us, especially as men, I think a lot
23:24
of the time we tend to have a shadow and that shadow is how we
23:28
are. Like we talk about love being
23:30
the the seer of the unseen and how we feel inside, how we when
23:34
we, when we feel angry, how we react when we snap our patients,
23:38
our tolerance levels and so on. And I think a a big part of us
23:41
is working on ourselves in the background when we're not having
23:45
a calamity such that I developed my Iman, I developed my Sabbath
23:49
and I developed my to work with the last one to Allah.
23:51
And that to the point when something does hit me, I'm more
23:55
prepared. And that may be what a lost one
23:57
to Allah looks at and maybe what we're judged by.
24:00
But I just want to understand how God forbid if something
24:02
happens to me tomorrow or to a loved one, how do I take myself
24:05
to a point from being annoyed by it but accepting of God's will
24:10
to then embracing it and saying I lost.
24:12
Punt Allah, I give myself to you.
24:13
Such an important question. You know, what I think is that
24:17
we need to redesign or reprogram our brains to think of suffering
24:22
as something beautiful. So there's no doubt that one of
24:25
the most monumental lines ever said regarding this is a famous
24:30
one that we've all memorized from say design of Salah Ali
24:33
Hamari 2 Ella Jamila when the LA in Ebenezia told her Keifa
24:37
Raitos on Allah, how have you seen what Allah did to your
24:41
brother? Now it's interesting because he
24:43
wants to blame Karbala on God, right?
24:47
So he says to her, God has made this happen, right?
24:51
And she says, yes, God has allowed this to happen.
24:54
But there is that element of foresight and wisdom, but also
24:58
the idea of trusting God that yes, it allowed it to happen
25:02
because I can see beyond what you can see.
25:04
Zainab can see the 25,000,026 million who walked from Najaf or
25:08
from different parts of Iraq to Karbala this year in the world's
25:11
largest annual peaceful gathering for the last 10-15
25:14
years. So she can see the powerful
25:16
impact of the name Hussein and the superpower that's changed
25:19
the world over such many, many centuries.
25:22
Whereas that individual and his master Yazid and everyone else
25:26
and even those who today ask why you mourning Karbala 1400 years,
25:30
why you're not moving ahead, They can't see what halal bait
25:34
see and the followers halal bait can see.
25:37
And that's the monumental change that happens through the
25:39
remembers of the 10th of Muharram.
25:41
But here's the thing, how do I see the suffering is beauty like
25:46
say the Zainab said ma. I have not seen anything in
25:48
Karbala except beauty. By the way, two tools in Arabic
25:52
that's used by her are Allah and Ma mar A to Allah.
25:57
So that means everything is amazing, everything is good,
26:01
right? So how do I see that?
26:03
Well, first of all, I have to be in love with God.
26:06
And that's a difficult one because I think, I think most of
26:08
us say, I claim that I love Allah, right?
26:12
But do we truly, you know, the famous Arabic poet or a line
26:17
proverb says whoever loves somebody is obedient to that
26:22
being or to that individual. In this case, if we truly love
26:26
God, we have to be willing to accept everything from him and
26:30
be accepting that when I don't understand something, it's OK
26:34
because he knows and I don't. And nothing evil comes from
26:38
Allah. There's nothing that Allah
26:40
allows to happen that isn't actually part of a plan that's
26:45
good for us, right? I have to embrace that.
26:48
In order to embrace that, I need to know why these things happen.
26:52
So just generally from Quran and Hadith, there are a number of
26:55
reasons we're told why, for example, calamities, pain,
26:58
suffering, difficulties take place.
27:01
A it could be punishment for things that we've done wrong
27:04
since it could be but some people said was COVID-19 a
27:08
punishment for humanity? Maybe, but I can't be sure
27:11
because I won't be able to tell which of these reasons the cause
27:16
of what's what I'm going through, right?
27:18
But it could be that because Allah says corruption and evil
27:24
has happened on this earth because of what people
27:26
themselves have done. And we know this world is a
27:29
world of cause and effect. Things we do will result in
27:32
things. So that could be one, but it's
27:35
actually good. Why should we always look at
27:37
this as a positive thing? Because I'd rather be punished
27:41
in this world than the hereafter.
27:43
I'd rather be painful pained in this existence than in the
27:47
Bursa, because that's much, much worse, right?
27:49
So when I have this in my mind, when I'm thinking, you know
27:52
what? I'm God forbid I've been
27:54
diagnosed with cancer or I've lost a loved one or I've lost my
27:59
wealth. OK, this is it feels bitter, it
28:02
feels horrible. It feels like the whole world is
28:06
suffocating me. But when I change the way I
28:08
think, I'm thinking, OK, God the Almighty has put me through this
28:12
because one of the possible reasons is that he wants to
28:15
reward me and accurate if I'm patient and submissive and I'm
28:18
satisfied with his decree. So then I begin to see the other
28:21
side. Then the other reason that could
28:23
be the case is to humble ourselves.
28:26
Sometimes we're too arrogant, you know, the prophet, peace be
28:29
upon him and his family, says if it wasn't for three Lola
28:31
Thalatha, human beings would never have bowed down their
28:37
heads in humility, poverty, sickness and death.
28:41
These things need to happen. People think they're on top of
28:44
the world, right? You've got managers who call
28:47
themselves the special one. You've got players who call
28:49
themselves the best. I am this.
28:52
And you've got people who presidents of the world who,
28:54
who, who, who come out as if, like, you know, they own
28:57
everything, right? At the end of the day, a lot
29:00
sends the message, listen, I'm going to send you that disease
29:02
you can't even do anything about.
29:04
You've got to come down crashing on Earth.
29:08
That's another reason. A third reason could be that
29:13
allowance to remind us that this world is short, it's transient,
29:18
you can't live here forever. So I've got to have to make you
29:21
remind you that this world is a world of hardship and
29:25
tribulation. People, do you think I'm going
29:29
to make you believers and not test you to that severe of test
29:33
sometimes? And the other reason potentially
29:35
is when God loves us. You see, if if we claim to love
29:39
God, we need to be ready for these hardships.
29:43
Why? Because the prophet said there
29:45
was no prophet went through hardship like I did, and he's
29:48
the most beloved to God. So imagine if I'm expecting from
29:52
God to live a very cozy, nice life that that that.
29:56
That's a very unfair expectation because surely the person who
30:00
should have had that is the most beloved human being to God and
30:02
that's the prophet of Islam, right?
30:05
So if if God is going to get going to give it to human being,
30:08
it would have been the prophet. But it hasn't and in fact made
30:11
him suffer the most. So if actually actually, if we
30:14
have a graph, maybe the more you suffer, perhaps the more beloved
30:19
you are to Allah, which the Hadith could see, which the
30:21
hadith actually says when Allah loves someone, he will make them
30:27
go through pain. So that that kind of
30:32
understanding helps me to break down those difficult, really
30:37
dark moments and the influences of shaytan to give up and to
30:41
kind of all of a sudden walk away from faith.
30:44
If I know that this is how I'm supposed to understand what's
30:48
happening to me. Love it, love it.
30:51
It's beautiful as, as, as you're speaking so eloquently, Shechna,
30:54
It's, it's making me understand the moments of my life where you
30:57
know what, Shechna, you're very right.
30:59
Maybe at times I've been like humbled, put in my own place.
31:03
Possibly I've done, you know, I've trying to rest against a
31:06
lot I've done since certain things have happened to me,
31:08
things like this. And it's nice to see it from
31:09
that perspective because it's always godly and God is always
31:12
in that mindset that you have that whatever happens to me is
31:16
either something that's I have done and it's a form of
31:19
punishment, or as you said it, it's love from a loss upon
31:22
what's Allah. But what, what I think, what I
31:25
think is wrong with us and what I think what, what I say, what's
31:29
wrong with us from my circle of friends and the people I
31:32
associate with, is that we don't understand that ultimately, as
31:37
you mentioned, this is a temporary life that we think
31:40
this suffering is going to last forever, whereas it's just very
31:43
temporary. And you mentioned the beautiful
31:47
example of say the Zainab Ali Hassana where she saw beauty.
31:52
And it it takes me to a point where Imam Hussain Ali Salaam on
31:55
the plains of Karbala on the day of Al Shura where all his
32:00
companions were butchered, his family members were annihilated.
32:04
Ali Akbar was mutilated where he reached a point where where he
32:09
had his infants in his hands. And he said that even in the
32:14
most difficult time, like all your family members are gone one
32:18
by one in front of your eyes, that he still did it for God.
32:21
Yeah. And even in the most difficult
32:23
time, we always have to say this is for God.
32:25
Yeah. If that's what God wants us to
32:26
go through. It's a test from our last panel
32:28
at Allah. We'll take it.
32:30
We'll take it. Yeah, absolutely.
32:32
I agree with you. You know, there's a very nice
32:36
explanation of four steps that we should be always trying to
32:40
develop in our minds, in our hearts to accept a bad thing.
32:47
And I say bad because again, it's our lens that looks at it
32:51
as bad a loss of how it Alice is in the Quran, by the way, I saw
32:54
and may dislike something and it's good for you and you may
32:58
like something and it's bad for you.
32:59
Allah knows you don't know, right?
33:03
So if I make that as a as a, as a foundation by which I then
33:07
take a this four step journey of unlocking the secrets of
33:13
hardships and suffering and trials.
33:15
And that's the following, the 1st, when I'm inflicted with any
33:20
pain, I need to immediately understand that I have to have
33:24
the first level is tawakkul. Tawakkul means what?
33:27
Tawakkul doesn't mean that I just rely on Allah and do
33:30
nothing. Tawakkul means I'm going to do
33:32
something about it and know that everything is in the hands of
33:36
Allah, right? So for example, if I'm going
33:38
through illness or I've lost my wealth, I'm going to say, OK,
33:42
this has happened because Allah has allowed it to happen.
33:45
Allah has a specific plan for me.
33:47
And by the way, one of the big, one of the best, best forms of
33:51
healing is to know that nothing I go through in life except that
33:57
Allah has given me the power to deal with, except that Allah has
34:01
enabled me to rise up to the challenge.
34:04
So he is fair, He is just, He is merciful, He is loving.
34:08
He wouldn't make me go through pain except that he's given me
34:12
the weapons and the strength to deal with that pain.
34:15
That's a guarantee, 100%. You know, just this line of
34:19
people remember this, that's it. You know, when you, the problem
34:23
that we find is we're overwhelmed and we give up and
34:25
say, I can't deal with this. It's too much for me.
34:28
And people just basically turn their backs on God.
34:31
Whereas of course that's not how it should be.
34:34
But in addition to feeling the sense of reliance on a lot, I
34:37
need to have the second step. The second step, it's called a
34:41
threat to Bella. Threat to Bella means to trust
34:43
him. So when I'm surrendering, when
34:46
I'm relying on Him and I'm using, for example, medications
34:50
to help me where I'm starting a new business, I am trying to do
34:55
whatever it takes to make the situation better.
34:58
I know that if Allah wants it to work, it will work.
35:01
That's the work. The second one, I know that a
35:05
loss of hand with Allah, whatever happens is for the
35:08
good. So if I'm, for example, using
35:10
medications and they're not curing me or for example, I'm
35:16
trying to solve the marriage and the difficulties I'm having in a
35:19
marital life, but it's not working out.
35:22
I'm not just sitting there and doing nothing about it.
35:24
I trust God. Trust God means it's not for me.
35:28
It might not work. You see, sometimes people ask
35:31
me, do you have a, do you have a Taweese?
35:33
Do you have something? And then when we tell them that
35:36
all they ask is doing this, I want to do something and it
35:38
doesn't work, they start saying, oh, look, it hasn't worked.
35:42
Or they go to a xiara, they go Hajj omara, they ask, make it
35:48
work. For example, you know, a couple
35:49
who wants to get married and they've tried so hard and the
35:51
parents are saying no and that they're begging and they're
35:53
begging, right? But it's not working out.
35:56
They start thinking, hmm, why is it not working out?
35:58
Maybe the door I'm asking is not good enough.
36:00
Well, it may not be that. It may be that the law doesn't
36:03
want it to happen, you know, and you have to trust God sometimes.
36:06
The third thing after having to work on a law is to have what's
36:13
known as Tafweev. Tafweev means you surrender
36:16
everything. Now surrender means that I am
36:19
now in a state where because I trust God and because I've done
36:23
whatever I can, there's really nothing else I can do.
36:26
But I have to be at peace. I have to be somehow OK with it
36:30
because of my relationship with God.
36:33
But after the Tafweave or for with Amiri Allah, the Quran says
36:37
comes the 4th one, which is the hardest and that's something
36:40
which I think if anyone reaches amazing, that's to have what's
36:45
known as the state of the river content.
36:48
You said to Ahmed to be pleased with Allah.
36:50
Imagine if somebody loses a love baby stillborn and the first
36:55
thing people look at them they say how do you feel?
36:57
They say Al Hamdullah, I'm grateful to Allah and I grateful
37:00
for your son being lost right. Can I be bold enough and say
37:07
people will find what I'm about to say very strange?
37:10
But if I was to say Al Hamdulillah for what's happening
37:13
in Raza, if I was to say Al Hamdulillah for the earthquakes
37:18
that took the lives of so many people.
37:21
If I was to say Al Hamdulillah for COVID-19, if I was to say
37:25
personally, for example, the tragedy that I was affected with
37:28
my son going through cancer, Al Hamdulillah for him going
37:31
through cancer. People look around and say
37:34
that's a bit weird. Why you being grateful for a
37:38
calamity? Surely you should be saying, you
37:44
know, it's pain, it's hard, you know.
37:46
OK, I have to be patient. Y'all will help me go through
37:49
it, right? Can we be?
37:52
Can we express gratitude for things that we feel are bad?
37:59
Can we do that? That's a level which an
38:02
individual can reach if they really understand how things
38:06
work, if they really ponder what how things you know fall into
38:11
place. And that's where Sayyida Zainab
38:13
would say marae to Allah Jamil because she can see and says Al
38:17
Hamdullah, yes Sir, hamdullah for Karbala.
38:19
But doesn't mean I'm not upset and my heart is broken and I am
38:23
tearful. That's OK.
38:24
That's a human reaction. And especially for Karbala, it's
38:27
needed to keep the emotions alive, to keep the message
38:30
alive. But it's different than me
38:32
complaining and saying this shouldn't have happened.
38:35
God, why are you making this happen?
38:37
I don't like and telling people that's what I can't believe God
38:40
allowed this to happen, right. So these four steps, if we
38:45
practice, the more we practice at times of difficulties and
38:49
Allah keeps sending us these tipping points, I call them
38:51
these moments where we can easily tip the other side in
38:55
order for us to go through this training to be able to reach
39:00
that lofty status of being pleased with him.
39:04
If I am pleased with Allah, Allah will be pleased with me.
39:09
That's why they elevate many of them.
39:10
Are their names associated with this, by the way?
39:12
So they got these terms which are saying, look, the alabait
39:18
alim Salaam, we're pleased with Allah based on everything that
39:22
they went through. We can be the same.
39:25
You know, everything you've mentioned is so pertinent.
39:30
I think. I think a lot of us as human
39:34
beings are visual learners and look to those who we respect and
39:40
learn from for inspiration. So we look to the Alabait Alim
39:44
Salaam, a lot of the marks, I mean, even mentioned, we look at
39:47
kind of Bala, which is why I think it's so many of us, we, we
39:50
find a story, a personal story in kind of Bala.
39:53
It could be the loss of a family member.
39:55
It could be a connection with your, your children or your
39:58
parents. It could be, you know, the loss
40:01
of of material things and poverty.
40:04
But there's something which we find in it.
40:06
I think in the same way when we look at people who we respect
40:09
and we see that they also. Can be inflicted with hardship
40:14
and they can come out stronger and they can have that radar is
40:18
in itself is a beautiful thing. I think the same applies to our
40:21
olamar and our scholars. And for those of us like myself
40:26
and said Ali, who have grown up listening to you and attending
40:29
your classes and your Mashallah all the Majalis, and we know
40:33
Sheikh Muhammad as someone who's always smiling and someone who's
40:37
always imparting knowledge. And then just to know that
40:40
you've gone through something. And I know we've discussed it
40:42
briefly before the podcast and, and you mentioned it as well in
40:45
terms of your son. If, if you don't mind me asking,
40:51
what went through your mind initially and throughout the
40:56
process and how what helps you in terms of the people around
41:00
you? How did the community support
41:03
you or what, what supported you? What, what can we do for someone
41:06
who we know is suffering? Someone who's has a family
41:09
member who's unwell or someone who's had a great severe loss
41:13
materially, or who's going through a divorce or lost
41:16
something, how can we support them?
41:19
Absolutely. I think it's so important to
41:21
have these conversations, especially with people who have
41:24
gone through similar experiences or traumas.
41:27
I remember, you know, I was called by a number of people who
41:33
also had their sons diagnosed with cancer and they said,
41:37
listen, if you need any advice, we're here for you.
41:40
And it encouraged me to do the same when I heard of people now,
41:44
I hear now people going through, you know, similar experiences.
41:47
You just want to talk to them and they love it.
41:50
You know, we all, I, I very much really, really, you know, one of
41:54
the things that Alhamdulillah Allah, Saharat Allah bestowed is
41:57
the support of the community which were amazing.
42:00
For those who may not be aware, in 2019, in the month of
42:05
Ramadan, I was in Mombasa, Kenya reciting Majalis and it was
42:10
specifically the 9th of Ramavan Majlis.
42:15
And my son was diagnosed in London, 12 year old at that time
42:20
with leukemia, which is a blood cancer.
42:23
And he was healthy, everything was fine.
42:25
He was unexpected in the sense that he's very much, he was a
42:29
top scorer for his Sunday league team.
42:31
He played sports a lot, but he had this pain in his knee.
42:34
That's it, no swelling. And I remember, you know, within
42:40
a few hours, the news spread. God bless the likes of Sheikh
42:43
Nuru, he on the member in Nairobi.
42:45
He told everyone, please pray. And you know, I would I would be
42:49
flooded with messages and to ours and people who had similar
42:53
experiences and and and advice. And I think Alhamdulillah, you
42:58
know, I'm so grateful to Los Panettala for the strong support
43:01
of my family, mainly my wife, who is, you know, she was
43:04
brilliant in in dealing with it. My son himself never ever
43:08
complained, even though he had fear of needles, but he kind of
43:13
grew with it. The family support structure,
43:16
the wider community, all this is great.
43:18
Al Hamdullah and I and I and I can never be grateful enough to
43:21
lost Panettallah for for that. And it's so important that we do
43:25
see somebody in that vulnerable or difficult state to be doing
43:28
whatever we can. Even sometimes, you know, a
43:31
shoulder to cry on or some advice to keep them going is
43:36
it's, it's so essential, but it's a two prong thing.
43:39
You need an external support. But internally is so important.
43:44
Internally, as we mentioned earlier, none of us can ever be
43:48
ready for such a thing. You know, we, we, we see
43:51
catastrophes on TV and on social media.
43:54
We see people losing their lives, others on helicopters
43:57
crashing and dying. We see, you know, famine.
44:00
We see all these things and we think, no, I'm OK, you know, I'm
44:04
fine. It's probably not going to
44:05
happen to me as such. But when it does strike, that's
44:09
when you really have to be in the right moment, in the right
44:12
type of thinking. For me, I guess it was the
44:16
remembrance of the tragedies of Alan Bait, Alayhim Salam, which
44:19
kept me going. That's, I know, Al Hamdullah.
44:21
Most people say that to be relevant and important, but when
44:26
you do feel the pain actually in your own family and your own son
44:31
is when you begin to relate to these holy individuals in an
44:35
incredible way. You know, I could see my son in
44:39
pain and suffering, but I could only imagine what about Abdullah
44:44
Hussein felt when the arrow was in the throat of Asghar Ali,
44:49
when he was going through, you know, Abdullah Raviya's pain and
44:53
when he was sitting next to Akbar, For me, that moment was,
44:57
you know, I can never, if I listen to five, 500 years of
45:01
masab of Ali Akbar, Imam Hussein, Abdullah Ravi, Imam
45:05
Hussein, I, I would never, you know, go through the pain as
45:08
much as when I imagine that next to my son going through that
45:11
pain or, or difficulty. And Alhamdullah, my son survived
45:15
and with the name of Allah, he's well fully recovered.
45:18
But the other thing that really helped me as well is
45:23
understanding some of the narrations from the ahalbait as
45:26
to what are we supposed to be thinking at this moment.
45:31
That's the key thing. So I one of my favorite hadith,
45:34
and I love talking about this, I tell people about this hadith
45:37
all the time that helped me during this four year ordeal was
45:42
the Haditha Kutsi that's found in Sunni and Shia books which
45:45
Allah speaks to us. And I felt he was speaking to me
45:50
during that experience. He was really, it was touching
45:52
my heart throughout those years and I kept reminding myself of
45:55
this hadith. The hadith says, and I'd like to
45:58
share it. Anybody going through pain,
46:00
anybody who wants to benefit from it, Inshallah.
46:02
These are, you know, golden words from the and this is of
46:07
course the hadith narrated from the but it's from Allah says
46:12
Yapna Adam, O son of Adam to read or read.
46:16
You want something and I want something, right?
46:20
Wumayakunu Illama or read and what will happen is what I want.
46:25
Then he says in Salem to Lima or read to come out to read.
46:31
If you submit to what I want, I give you what you want.
46:37
Well, Illam to Salem, Lima or read.
46:39
But if you struggle, if you resist, if you don't surrender
46:43
to what I want, add up to Kafima to read.
46:46
I will make you tired in the pursuit of what you want.
46:50
So Mama yakuno El lama or read. But at the end what will happen
46:54
is what I want. Oh my God, where can we find
46:59
this? Yeah, Haditha kotsi, you know,
47:02
we can. This hadith is so famous, it's
47:05
incredible. So I was thinking, OK, I have
47:08
two choices here. Allah says you, you can either
47:12
be OK with what I have decreed. Your son is sick, he is going
47:18
through treatment. He can either either survive or
47:21
he dies. I decide you do what you can and
47:24
that's put him through treatment, right?
47:27
If you are at peace with it in the sense of peace, in the sense
47:29
that ya Allah, you do whatever you wish, I'm not going to
47:33
complain. I'm not going to stand and say
47:35
why is God doing this or tell people or leave faith.
47:38
By the way, when the moment I decide to stop praying or leave
47:41
faith or take off my hijab, that's a moment where I am now
47:44
in conflict with God because I'm saying to Allah, Y'allah, I
47:48
don't agree with what you're saying.
47:50
Yeah, it's a rebellion. I'm going against him, right?
47:53
Because he wants me to pray. He wants me to hold on to that
47:57
hope that I have, which is him Subhanallah, right.
48:00
So I thought that's one option. The other option, no, is to say,
48:03
you know, I'm not going to be OK.
48:05
So, so when I'm not OK with what he has decreed, what does the
48:09
hadith say? Says you're going to really
48:12
suffer. But at the end, nothing's going
48:14
to change. It's whatever I want.
48:18
So it made me at peace. It made me, it made me feel
48:22
like, you know what, there is only a win win situation.
48:26
The other one's a lose lose situation.
48:27
Why? Because the other option is I'm
48:29
going to be so tired in the sense that because I've distant
48:33
or I've turned away, God forbid from Allah and I want an outcome
48:37
that's only satisfying to me. I'm not going to get it because
48:41
God's not going to give it to me.
48:43
Whereas the first one is even if my son dies, it's a win win.
48:48
Why? Because ultimately if I've
48:51
submitted to Allah, it is part of the plan that Allah has
48:53
written for him and me. So at the end of the day,
48:57
nothing is in my hands. Nothing is in my hands.
49:00
So that personal experience, you know, I've had before that
49:05
people come up to me after the majalis and say you Mulanas, you
49:09
lecturers, you speakers, you islands, you never go through
49:12
pain, you never, you're never tested really badly.
49:16
We always see you Mashallah, you know, happy and whatever.
49:19
Of course, we should never, ever judge anybody like that because
49:22
every one of us is going through some form of tribulation, some
49:25
form of hardship. And by the way, even if you're
49:28
watching or hearing this and you're thinking, I haven't gone
49:30
through any of this, is that that?
49:33
Does that mean God doesn't love me?
49:34
Does that mean I'm not a good person?
49:37
Well, just remember what Imam's seen.
49:39
But you know this, Salaam says in Sahifa, he says, yeah, I
49:43
don't know when I should be more grateful, when I'm in pain or
49:47
when I'm in ease. Because when you're on ease,
49:50
it's also a trial. When you are uncomfortable,
49:53
there's no illness, there's no pain, there's no hardships,
49:56
There's no cost of living crisis.
49:57
I don't know what it is. How?
49:58
You behave in that time. It's how you use it, how you're
50:01
benefiting from this. Are you turning towards Allah or
50:04
away from Allah? Are you helping his creation or
50:07
are you neglecting your duties and responsibilities?
50:10
So in that respect, I think Alhamdulillah Allah, Allah.
50:15
I think for me that hadith really played out well in the
50:18
sense that he says you submit and I give you what you want.
50:21
I genuinely wanted whatever Allah wants.
50:23
And I said if he, if he, if he, if he survives, he survives,
50:27
Alhamdulillah. And in fact, one of my friends,
50:30
he had a my son in the 80s, though also the same condition
50:35
exactly as my son. And he died, his son died.
50:38
So I'm like, OK, let it be. You know, whatever is from
50:42
Allah, I will never complain. It's so much to take in.
50:48
You've there's a lot to take in. You know, like I may last month.
50:55
Allah bless you eternally and abundantly for what you do and
50:59
what you are in. As a man.
51:02
Well Lala, as a man, as a father, forget all of the
51:06
service you do for us extracurricular which we, we,
51:09
we, we don't ask from you but you still gift us.
51:12
But as a father, as a man, you are an incredible human being
51:15
Subhan Allah and your two boys are so lucky to have you.
51:17
And I remember seeing your son, the love bless him when he was
51:21
5-6 years old. And I, I, I named my son the
51:25
same name as, as him as well, Hamdullah.
51:27
And I used to say like he is Marshall Law, one of the most
51:31
well behaved boys I've ever seen.
51:33
And I'm so both of your boys, Marshall Law and I'm, I'm so
51:37
honored to see, you know, they're growth and I'm so, so
51:41
grateful to you for sharing that with us.
51:42
Thank you. It's.
51:43
They are special boys, but just just.
51:45
In case my daughter is watching, she's nice.
51:48
I don't know your daughter. I know.
51:51
You don't, she's going to say I'll.
51:52
See, you didn't. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
51:53
So Layla, I met you as well because Ahmed, God bless him,
51:56
hasn't met you, so he doesn't know.
51:58
May Allah protect them and thank you long.
52:02
Children here, it's, it's, it's my, you know, pleasure to, to,
52:08
to pray for everyone and pray inshallah Las Patala removes the
52:12
hardships and the pain and the difficulties that everybody is,
52:16
is actually going through. But you know, one, one thing
52:19
that really benefited me in this experience and also with the,
52:24
with dealing with, you know, different trials that I see of
52:28
people is to constantly remind myself of paradise.
52:32
You know, I love the subject of paradise so much because I speak
52:36
to children about it and I see their interest, their
52:38
enthusiasm. I don't think we speak a lot
52:40
enough about Jenna. I remember asking a few kids a
52:43
few months ago, I don't know where it was, and I asked them.
52:47
I tell them, tell me about Jenna, right?
52:50
Tell me one thing about Jenna. And then, well, you can have
52:55
nice meals. And, you know, they were saying
52:58
interesting things, but it's much, much, much, much more than
53:02
what the mind can ever imagine. So when I told them you can have
53:06
500 billion palaces made out of Nutella, for example, PS, PS no,
53:12
PS1 trillion. So if you get the PS5, right,
53:16
PS1 trillion, whatever you want, whatever you want, whatever your
53:20
desire. And you don't even need to ask
53:23
for it, whatever it comes to your mind, right?
53:26
It is an incredible motivation and it's the truth.
53:29
It's not a fallacy. You know, sometimes people say
53:31
01 day, maybe, possibly, potentially, but it is there.
53:35
It's there for the taking of law has created us for it, right?
53:40
So he wants us to go there. And I think, you know, if it
53:44
wasn't for this pain, if it wasn't for the hardship it's
53:48
going to be, it will be difficult to imagine we deserve
53:52
these places because we never deserve a loss of panel to
53:55
Allah's justice and mercy. If if, if we're really honest
53:58
because we don't do enough. But you know, some people say,
54:01
but why? Why did Allah created this world
54:04
with so much? Surely he could have made it
54:06
like Jannah. So we were all created in
54:08
Jannah. And I give a simple example.
54:09
We're in London, wherever you're watching.
54:11
If you walk in the streets and there's bags and bags of money
54:14
everywhere, everywhere, just like tons of it, would you ever
54:19
appreciate it? No.
54:20
Can you buy anything with it? You can't.
54:22
You can't use it because the shopkeeper will say it's just on
54:25
the street, you know, you're giving it.
54:27
To me, it's worthless, losses, value.
54:29
If we were all in paradise from the beginning and we don't go
54:32
through these pain and suffering, we would never know
54:35
its value. We would never know It's amazing
54:38
how it made. We've earned it, right?
54:40
And. Becomes sweeter it.
54:41
Becomes much sweeter, becomes much sweeter.
54:44
And I'll never forget this aya in the Quran in Suratoba, which
54:47
always, you know, I remind myself that Allah says, you
54:50
know, ultimately the law promises this paradise, many
54:57
different gardens underneath which rivers flow.
54:59
You have everything. And if you ask people, they'll
55:01
say the materialistic physical pleasures of paradise is the
55:05
best, right? And if we were to do a survey
55:08
out there, most people would say, for example, the food, the
55:12
hotel in the, you know, one child told me.
55:15
I said to him, what's your favorite thing about Jenna?
55:17
And he said not having to wake up for Salat al Fajar.
55:19
You know, sometimes these things do hurt.
55:24
See, I could see his frustration.
55:26
I could see, is that how much Salat al Fajar hurts you?
55:29
You know, you're like, I'm not. Yes, that's what I'm looking
55:31
forward in Jenna for. And all these people will say
55:34
these things, right? But actually the Quran says is
55:36
something much much much greater.
55:38
Can't even be compared to the physical pleasures.
55:40
What if one would mean Allahi Akbar?
55:43
The feeling that Allah is pleased with us is the most
55:49
unbelievably sweet and profound sensation of paradise.
55:53
That cannot even be because Quran says Akbar it's greater
55:57
and on the losses something is greater can't be even compared
56:00
to the physical pleasures. So you know, I I often wonder if
56:05
I'm struggling to be pleased with a law.
56:07
Imagine the reward of that state in which by the way Imam Ali
56:12
Salaam says in the Aykum Aliya is in it that the law is quick
56:17
to be pleased with us and we have the hadith from the Imam
56:20
Hussain Ali Salaam says the river law bait that we have so
56:28
many opportunities. Imam Hassan Ali Salam says if we
56:31
pleased with you, Allah will be pleased with you, you know, And
56:33
so we often wonder that relationship we have with him on
56:36
Mehdi Angela Ferojo Sharif, if we are trying to serve him, if
56:40
we're trying to make him happy, input happiness in his hearts,
56:44
he will be pleased with us Inshallah.
56:45
And the last part of Dollar will be pleased with us as well.
56:47
Yeah. That's a beautiful Sharma.
56:49
Thank you for mentioning gender. Yeah, it's a reminds Ahmed that
56:52
we need to have this discussion and the boy says we want to
56:55
discuss. It and we, we and and and
56:57
inshallah with your permission, we can have you back and just do
57:00
it. A full discussion on gender.
57:02
Absolutely. Ali's been been.
57:05
Waiting for like I'm anticipating that they are.
57:09
You know, you're not Speaking of the innocence of children, how
57:11
they see Jenna. I remember I have a daughter
57:13
called Jenna by the way, hence. The need for this discussion
57:17
and. She's 5.
57:19
She's five years old, Shechner. And she told me, she asked me a
57:22
question like in Jenna, can I get anything that I want?
57:24
Like, I can have whatever I think of, I can get it.
57:27
And I said, yeah, that's the whole point of generally we may
57:30
have restrictions here, but in paradise, it's endless.
57:33
And whatever you think of, you'll shall I get an even
57:36
better of what you can imagine. Then she was like, yeah, I mean,
57:39
all I do is like this, I do this and God will give it to me.
57:42
I said, yeah. Then she was like, Baba, I
57:43
can't, I can't. She still doesn't.
57:48
Know. How to So she goes to five in
57:54
Charlotte. We all reach that in Charlotte.
57:58
Yeah, I think it's such a powerful subject for children.
58:01
I often tell them when you're going through these early years
58:05
of whether you should wear hijab, prey, whatever in your
58:08
room, take a blank piece of paper and just put on it
58:12
Paradise or Jen stick on the wall.
58:14
Some people say that's what it's just sometimes we need to remind
58:18
us, you know, what am I doing all this for?
58:20
Yes, some people say I don't want to.
58:21
I don't want to. I don't want to do it for Jenna.
58:23
I want to do it for Allah. You know what?
58:26
That's that's amazing. Let's get to the Jenna first
58:29
element and and then see. But you know, I think for your
58:34
daughter Jenna, maybe you can tell her that in paradise you
58:37
don't need to click or you don't need to blink.
58:40
Whatever is in your mind will happen.
58:44
Allah. That's what we're told in
58:46
accordance with the rewired, you don't need to even ask Allah.
58:51
So just a prelude to a discussion that you may have on
58:53
general, we have some beautiful narrations that says, for
58:55
example, the believer is walking and relaxing, or in today's
58:58
modern, modern terminology, chillaxing, and they see some
59:03
birds, beautiful birds in paradise.
59:05
So all of a sudden they imagine how would they taste like and
59:09
that's it. They imagine they haven't asked,
59:12
and the rewire says all of them will be cooked, prepared, ready
59:16
within a split second in front of them.
59:18
Different types of birds cooked in different ways.
59:21
So in today's terminology, some fried, some oven baked, you
59:26
know, grilled. So then they start eating, they
59:29
start eating. Then there's no boredom, there's
59:31
no excrements, there's no sleep. Nothing like that in paradise
59:35
all of a sudden they start continue walking that birds then
59:38
fly off normal as if nothing's happened and show off to the
59:41
other birds and says who is like us, a servant of God in paradise
59:45
has eaten from us, you know so so the the these kind of stories
59:49
are very motivation in a world that we're up against it.
59:53
We're up against it because in today's society is very
59:56
materialistic. You know, everybody wants to
59:58
have that is the I want culture. And part of the reason why we
1:00:02
can't deal with sufferings is because of the.
1:00:05
Fear that I'm going to be left out from the society that's
1:00:11
constantly demanding me to be of a certain status or to have
1:00:15
something that others have. And so on social media, others
1:00:20
we want to always be up to date with others.
1:00:23
We want to yeah, FOMO exactly. Or we see this expression, Yolo,
1:00:30
right, you only live once kind of thing, which Islamically, by
1:00:34
the way, is not agreed upon, but Jen helps us to formulate.
1:00:39
Yeah. Certainly thank you so much for
1:00:43
for coming on and I think just for giving us the opportunity
1:00:47
to, to learn from you. And I, I'm sure everyone at home
1:00:50
will agree that this was a, a much needed conversation.
1:00:54
And I think we've all benefited so much when you agree with it.
1:00:57
I agree twice, thrice, four times and it's beautiful.
1:01:01
I've learned so much and I know those listening at home,
1:01:04
inshallah have understood sometimes why Allah puts us in
1:01:07
certain environments and situations.
1:01:09
And I would recommend for those listening and watching, if you
1:01:11
know someone suffering, recommend them this episode.
1:01:14
I mean, there there's so much that they can learn from.
1:01:16
And Shekhar, we took so much from your time, but I don't know
1:01:19
how much minutes we have left. If possible, there is one final
1:01:22
question. One final question I want to ask
1:01:25
and I think it's very important in today's discussion and that
1:01:27
is sober patience. I don't know how much time we
1:01:31
have, but we're always reminded that whatever calamity or
1:01:35
difficulty that we're in, always have Sabor and we always hear
1:01:39
and we read and Surat al Bakarana Lama Sabourin, and we
1:01:42
come across verses like this. How can we make the most out of
1:01:45
patience? Yeah, this is a fascinating
1:01:49
topic which made me decide to talk about it this year in
1:01:52
Muharram, because we are always told be patient, but we're never
1:01:58
told how everybody knows patience, the virtue even.
1:02:01
You don't need to be a Muslim to be aware that, you know, it's
1:02:05
good to be patient. But then how like last year, I
1:02:08
decided to speak about how to forgive.
1:02:10
You know, we told people forget, forgive, forgive.
1:02:12
But how do I overcome the ego and actually forgive those who
1:02:16
have hurt me? So just brief, I'm going to give
1:02:19
you a snippet from the from the discussion or the research.
1:02:22
And then on her and fallen Muharram.
1:02:24
Yeah, inshallah, Inshallah, inshallah.
1:02:27
So there's two things I would say here.
1:02:29
First of all, you can never be patient unless you're grateful.
1:02:35
There is no suburb without Shukur.
1:02:38
Let me explain this so imagine that I am really fond of this
1:02:45
ring of mine. For example, you know, a lot of
1:02:48
people ask me what is this ring? By the way, this is this is a
1:02:50
ring which is from Mashad. It's but it's got the entire
1:02:55
Quran in it lasered inside. Okay, just had this bonus for
1:03:00
people who are watching. So then I, you know, I'm in love
1:03:03
with this ring and I'm thinking, oh, I can't lose it.
1:03:05
I can't lose it. And then all of a sudden I lose
1:03:07
it. It's not there anymore, and I'm
1:03:09
really finding it hard to be patient with this loss.
1:03:13
OK, if when I had it, I'm actually aware that this is from
1:03:18
God. It's his.
1:03:20
So I'm actually grateful that a loss of Hannah that has given it
1:03:24
to me. But I know it's not mine.
1:03:26
I know he could take it away any minute.
1:03:28
Nothing that I have is mine. Nothing.
1:03:30
The problem is when we think things are ours.
1:03:33
Yes, yes. My parents, my wealth, my
1:03:36
health. Very true, right?
1:03:38
We're the owners. We're not.
1:03:40
We're not a slave once was bought by somebody many years
1:03:45
ago. So the master, the person buying
1:03:47
him said, what's your name? He says whatever you want.
1:03:48
He says, what do you eat? Whatever you give me.
1:03:51
What do you drink? Whatever you give me.
1:03:53
So what do you wear? Whatever you provide for me.
1:03:55
He said, don't you want anything?
1:03:56
He says, how can a slave ever demand anything from the master?
1:04:00
I'm nobody, so I don't have anything.
1:04:02
Yes, everything belongs to Allah, Maliki, Omuddin.
1:04:05
So when I am in that state, I can be patient when Allah takes
1:04:09
away something from me because I know it's not mine, right?
1:04:13
If I was to give you, said Ali, or if I was to give you
1:04:17
something in this ring and say listen, listen, you can hear
1:04:21
sometimes it's Allah. If I was to give you, I'd say
1:04:23
listen, I'm going to take it back in a year.
1:04:25
When I take it back in a year, you're not going to feel upset
1:04:29
because you know that it's not yours.
1:04:31
There's a time and you know it's going to be.
1:04:34
So similarly, when Allah has given us all this amount, I can
1:04:38
be patient when a lot of it takes it away from me.
1:04:41
That's the yeah, that's the first thing.
1:04:44
Second, I'm going to the second point I'll mention with a story,
1:04:47
because sometimes stories are remembered better than what we
1:04:50
say. And that is there was a group of
1:04:52
students, young boys who were taken on a camp, right?
1:04:57
And it was lunchtime, their kids, their children, when they
1:05:00
were asked to to sit in order to eat, they were bought these
1:05:04
bowls of soup, but there was no spoons.
1:05:08
And it was really hot soup, you know, short but proper hot.
1:05:12
So that was trying to think, how do we supposed to have this?
1:05:15
The, the kids, they don't know they, they can't really drink it
1:05:18
from the bowl, right? So they started complaining,
1:05:20
where's the spoons? How can we have this?
1:05:22
Some kids went back to the dormitories.
1:05:25
Their mothers blessed them, had given them some spoons, kind of,
1:05:28
you know, those disposable ones. Oh, this was just like after
1:05:32
like 10 minutes, one of the teachers came out and said, oh,
1:05:36
the spoons are just behind the curtain, just there.
1:05:39
He went behind. There was a curtain next to the
1:05:41
window, took out the spoons and said, here they are like, oh,
1:05:44
OK. Next day, they repeated the same
1:05:46
experiment. They gave the kids all soup with
1:05:50
no spoons. Not a single one of them
1:05:52
complained. People sat there like this.
1:05:55
So the teachers came and said, why you're not complaining?
1:05:58
They said, because we know the spoons are behind the curtain,
1:06:01
They're there, right? What does that mean?
1:06:05
Allah says whatever, I made you go through the solutions with
1:06:08
me, it's behind the curtain. I might give it to you one day,
1:06:13
you know, if it's good for you, if it's good for you.
1:06:16
So how do I become patient? By knowing that the keys are
1:06:20
with Allah. And if Allah wants, I can get
1:06:23
it, but if if he doesn't want, I won't get it, right?
1:06:26
So ultimately it's about engineering and really
1:06:30
recalibrating our minds to look beyond the current suffering and
1:06:34
understand what others perhaps might not understand.
1:06:38
So beautiful. Another beautiful example.
1:06:42
Thank you so much. It's really been an honor.
1:06:45
I know you got a head out, so we will call it a day before we
1:06:49
end. Can you ask everyone to hit that
1:06:51
subscribe button please? Inshallah, I really hope and
1:06:55
pray that each and every person watching will be able to
1:06:59
subscribe to the After Madrid podcast inshallah and benefit
1:07:04
from these wonderful conversations.
1:07:09
Thank you so much. Great pleasure to have a
1:07:11
conversation with you and my duas, especially to ask for all
1:07:14
of you out there, all the sisters and brothers, everyone
1:07:17
suffering around the world, everyone who's in pain.
1:07:21
May a loss of Hanover Allah ease your pain and suffering.
1:07:24
May a loss give us what's best for us.
1:07:26
You know, I often ask people, I tell people, that's the best, we
1:07:30
don't know what's good for us. So we say, yeah, Allah give us
1:07:33
what's good for us, you know, and we don't know, right?
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So may a loss of Hanover Allah ease all the difficulties and
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the challenges and may He grant us all patience, submission to
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work, cult of weave, to trust Him in all our affairs.
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And may Allah, Subhan Allah, grant us an opportunity to serve
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the Imam of our time and as we mentioned it, make us all of the
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people of Jenna. Hopefully we'll see you again
1:08:01
soon. Thank you so much everyone at
1:08:03
home. Thank you for joining us.
1:08:04
We will be back next week, so we look forward to seeing you then.
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Take care.