Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Pulp Fiction with Costume Designer, Betsy Heimann

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Pulp Fiction with Costume Designer, Betsy Heimann · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:06
Hello, welcome to the Art Costume Podcast.
0:08
I'm Elizabeth Joy Glass. And I am most likely to be on
0:11
the Elizabeth Joy Glass's hit list.
0:13
Spencer Williams. Top of the list, Spencer.
0:17
Top of the list. Keep an eye out.
0:20
Hey, Elizabeth, happy spring to you.
0:23
How are you? Happy spring to you too,
0:25
Spencer. I am doing well.
0:27
How about yourself? I'm doing good, I feel like I'm
0:30
I'm doing good, I'm not sick for once.
0:32
I finally have been cured from my like 3 month long affliction
0:36
so I'm feeling good. I feel like half the time I've
0:39
seen you the past couple months you've been ill and I've been
0:42
like, oh. Yeah, I don't know what's been
0:44
going on. I got I got hit hard this year.
0:47
I don't know. You did.
0:48
I I started off on the wrong foot but I'm feeling I'm good
0:51
and better than ever so I'm ready to ready to get going.
0:54
Hopefully. I got just a year's worth of
0:56
sickness out of the way. I hope but.
0:58
I hope so too, us. We've got a lot of lot to do,
1:03
yeah. I mean, tell me about it.
1:05
I'm so behind. I mean, I feel like I've been
1:08
just dark on social media. I mean, I just like I've been so
1:11
behind not responding to emails. It's, you know, slain.
1:15
The world passed by me. So if, if I owe anyone any
1:19
messages or emails or anything, I'm sorry.
1:21
But I'm I'm back out there, back in these streets, so I'm sorry,
1:26
yes. Yes, you are.
1:27
You're recovered and you are ready to dive into this week's
1:33
episode, Spencer. Yeah, wait, before I, before you
1:36
go any further, Speaking of being back in these streets this
1:40
weekend, actually I'm jumping back in these streets quickly.
1:44
I'm going to be at Wonder Con this weekend in Anaheim.
1:47
I'm going to be one of the trophy judges at at Wonder Con
1:52
at the Masquerade show. So come by see me this Saturday.
1:56
That will be March 28th. So come by and see me.
2:01
I'll be on stage then coming down and judging some of your
2:07
incredible cosplay creations. I'm so excited.
2:10
I love seeing everyone on stage doing their performances or
2:14
skits. I love seeing your creations.
2:16
It's so fun. I got to do it last year and was
2:18
excited to do it again this year with some good friends of mine.
2:21
So please be there. I cannot wait.
2:24
I look forward to it every year, so I hope to see and meet some
2:27
of you there this weekend. And now let's get back into the
2:31
show because we have an incredible episode for you all.
2:34
I've been dying to do this film. This is a cult classic if there
2:38
ever was 1. Yes, absolutely everyone.
2:42
This week we watched Pulp Fiction.
2:46
Yeah, I'm so excited. This is one of the best of the
2:50
best. It is so, so fun.
2:52
I haven't seen it in a minute though, so it it was fun to get
2:54
back into it. It absolutely was.
2:57
I forgot how. Just like, not that there's not
3:02
a story, but like, there's not a story that really like matters
3:09
in this movie. The through line is not as
3:13
through as you remember it to be.
3:15
Exactly, exactly. And like, it was an oddly like,
3:19
relaxing movie, even though people are like getting well,
3:24
literally shot in the head. Like it was weirdly relaxing to
3:31
just watch these like mostly criminals just go about their
3:35
lives. Yeah, it's like a day in the
3:37
Life criminal edition. Yeah.
3:40
That's a good summary. I mean, I wrote a different
3:43
summary, but if I didn't write one, that would have been a good
3:45
one. So yeah, well, maybe we should
3:48
just get into it. Let's get into it.
3:50
Go. Go for it, Spencer.
3:52
All right, well, just as last episode, this film was directed
3:56
by Quentin Tarantino. You will know him for some of
3:58
his noble work such as Reservoir Dogs, Kill Bill, Inglourious
4:02
Basterds, Django Unchained, Hateful 8, and Once Upon a Time
4:07
in Hollywood, which was our last episode.
4:09
We did a fun episode. I hope you will go back and
4:12
check it out. And for our summary, A hitman, a
4:16
boxer, a gangster's wife, and a pair of diner bandits walk into
4:21
a bar. Except it's not a bar.
4:23
It's a diner, or a pawn shop or the back seat of a car at a very
4:27
inconvenient moment. And somehow they're all
4:30
connected. Welcome to Pulp Fiction to hit
4:33
man with a knack for philosophical debate.
4:35
Navigate a day that quickly spirals beyond their control,
4:39
and night out takes a sharp turn into chaos.
4:43
A boxer makes a decision that sets off a chain reaction of
4:46
consequences, crossings and deeply unexpected detours.
4:50
And when things get messy, really messy, there's always
4:54
someone who knows how to clean it up.
4:56
And finally, a pair of arm lovers remind us that in this
5:00
world, anyone can take control the story at any moment.
5:03
Pulp Fiction is a collision of stories, tones and timelines,
5:07
violence and redemption, irony and intimacy, all stitched
5:11
together in a narrative that refuses to play by the rules,
5:15
and that is Pulp Fiction. That is Pulp Fiction.
5:18
If you haven't seen it, go give it a watch.
5:21
It's it's worth it it. Is worth it.
5:23
I mean, that is. I mean, it's one of the greatest
5:26
films of all time. I mean, it's like embedded in
5:28
film history. Let's meet our costume designer,
5:33
Betsy Hyman. You will know her work from the
5:36
Pee Wee Herman Show, Reservoir Dogs, The Adventures of Huck
5:40
Finn, Almost Famous for which she got a Costume Designer Guild
5:45
nomination, The A-Team, Godless and most recently The Naked Gun
5:51
and Spencer. What do we have for the costume
5:56
nerds this week? So earlier, a couple months ago,
6:02
at the end of 2025, went to a rooftop party and I got
6:06
introduced to Betsy Hyman just, you know, at this party, got the
6:10
meter. And then I was like, wait,
6:11
you're the Pulp Fiction almost famous costume designer.
6:15
And we became fast friends. We've been hanging out, going to
6:20
lunch, and we just become like besties, honestly.
6:23
And I was just like, we have to have you on a podcast.
6:27
So I'm just so happy to say that today we're going to have Betsy
6:30
Hyman here in the studio to talk about Pulp Fiction.
6:35
Yeah, I'm so excited. She is so cool.
6:37
And I'm so excited to dive into the costumes of Pulp Fiction.
6:41
It's like they are so iconic, so legendary.
6:45
So I'm just so excited to get into it.
6:47
It's so exciting, everyone. We're going to take a break and
6:51
then welcome on Betsy Hyman. I am so excited for today's
7:00
episode as we are being joined by one of my dearest friends.
7:05
I met her earlier this year and now I just can't get enough of
7:08
her. We chat every day.
7:12
She is an icon of icons. Costume designer Betsy Hyman,
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please welcome to please welcome.
7:21
What am I trying to say? Focus to the Art of Costume
7:23
podcast. I think you are.
7:30
Hi, Betsy, Thank you so much for joining us.
7:32
It's such a pleasure. It's.
7:33
A pleasure to be here. I've been dying to talk to you.
7:38
I mean, like I said, we just got to know each other earlier this
7:41
week and now we've been earlier this year.
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We've been fast friends and I've been dying to talk to you ever
7:45
since. I was like, wait, you're in a
7:47
Pulp Fiction costume designer? Like, how have we not talked
7:50
yet? So I'm so excited.
7:52
Cool. Well, I'm I'm.
7:55
Yeah, good for. Sunday morning.
7:58
Yes, well, we have so much to get into, so let's just get
8:02
right into it. Reservoir Dogs was of course
8:04
Tarantino's first film, which you also designed the costumes
8:08
for. So but today is all about Pulp
8:11
Fiction. So as you finish Reservoir Dogs
8:14
and got into Pulp Fiction, what was that conversation like now
8:18
that you have one film under your belt, now you're going into
8:21
this second film. So now you kind of know what the
8:24
craziness is like, what what these films are like.
8:27
Do you remember what your initial reaction to the story
8:29
was? Now you're going into Pulp
8:31
Fiction. Yes, I remember everything
8:33
because we went over the movie visually.
8:39
The first Reservoir Dogs we went over visually at the Denny's in
8:43
Hollywood and no, but we went through the script and we, we,
8:47
he did his references and I, you know, that was our, you know, we
8:50
went through the whole script and we did it again for Pulp
8:54
Fiction at Barney's Beanery. And so I knew that, I mean, I
8:59
knew that experience. And I remember saying to him, I
9:06
think Jules and Vincent are Reservoir Dogs.
9:10
And he just stopped and he looked at me for a minute and he
9:12
said, yeah, yeah, I like that. So that was the the impetus for
9:19
their costumes. And he asked me, what do you
9:23
think about John Travolta? And I said, I love John
9:27
Travolta. I'm a huge John Travolta fan.
9:30
And he said, that's good because I would like to use him.
9:32
I'm getting some pushback for that.
9:34
And I said, well, I love him. And I said, women love him.
9:38
If it's up to me, we're doing it right.
9:42
So I those were the first would be the first two things I would
9:45
remember about Pulp Fiction. It sounds like you're really
9:48
there, like helping set the scene and kind of the visual
9:52
dialogue too. Pulp Fiction.
9:53
And that's a very LA story from the Denny's and the Barney's
9:56
beanery too. It feels, it feels very Pulp
9:59
Fiction in a way. Actually in the diner.
10:01
I mean, that's kind of, well, we we're.
10:03
Comfortable. I'm still most comfortable in a
10:05
diner. I don't know, quit now.
10:07
But we were, he was. It was his choice of venue, so
10:11
yeah. And so then we went through the
10:13
film visually. It was a very different visual
10:18
experience from a Reservoir Dogs, because I had very
10:24
specific ideas in Reservoir Dogs about these guys and I felt the
10:30
need to explain myself to him because it was his first film
10:33
and his first film with me. And but this one, we had more of
10:37
a visual shorthand and we could easily go back and forth.
10:43
Example the Bruce Willis character.
10:48
He said to me, I think he should be in a leather jacket.
10:51
And I said like Nick Nolte wore in Who will stop the rain?
10:55
And he said, or he might have said, I think I said Nick Nolte
10:59
in Hanover Square. And he said, no, Nick Nolte and
11:01
who will stop the rain? And then I said, I think it's
11:03
the same jacket. And then and then we didn't do
11:08
that jacket at all. But that was the, you know, that
11:12
was my direction leather jacket. And I ended up in what is a
11:16
classic shot pigskin, I don't know, baseball jacket,
11:20
windbreaker, I don't know from the 1940s.
11:23
And that was a jacket they had made since the beginning of
11:27
time. But in my research for leather
11:29
jackets that we could afford and that looked right, I stumbled on
11:34
that and I thought, Oh my God, here it is.
11:36
And Quentin loved it and I loved it.
11:38
So we drove out to Malibu with it and had our fitting with
11:42
Bruce Willis. Wow, I can't even imagine that.
11:45
Well, that is not for me to tell that story.
11:48
I. Of that, when you were sitting
11:54
at that diner, did you like have any idea that this would become
11:58
such a cult classic? You never really do, but I think
12:02
Spencer knows that. When I read Reservoir Dogs, I
12:05
was helping Lawrence Bender at that time, just on the side with
12:09
budgets to let him know, put this much in the money, put this
12:13
much money in the budget for this film that you're doing.
12:16
He would send them to me. Well, he sent me that one and I
12:19
said in my mind, I said to myself, they are going to have
12:25
to have very good actors because there are pages of dialogue and
12:29
everybody's going to fall asleep if they don't have the right
12:31
people. And so I thought this is very
12:34
unusual. I have never read anything like
12:37
this. And I, you know, had a several
12:39
year career at that point, you know, and you know, so I had
12:44
feelings about dogs. I just thought it was great.
12:47
And so I they had good expectations for Quentin.
12:52
I'll tell you, I didn't think anything about the future.
12:55
I try to stay in the moment, but I'll tell you one thing I
13:00
completely missed when I went to the initial screening or the
13:04
premiere, whatever it was, I didn't realize how funny the
13:07
movie was. I was not laughing when I I was
13:13
like, intense, you know? I was like, you know, and.
13:18
But I was so relieved to see how funny it was.
13:21
I mean, I think the Comic Relief really made that movie.
13:25
Really. Yeah, you know, along with
13:27
everything else but. Yeah.
13:30
And actually it is so very beautifully detailed too.
13:33
I mean, I just rewatched it again the other night for I
13:35
don't know, the one millionth time and I still feel like I see
13:37
something different every time I go back.
13:39
Rewatch it too, which I I mean, maybe you all didn't realize
13:43
you're doing that back then in a moment too, but there's just you
13:45
find something every single time.
13:48
So let's kind of get into some of our characters and you kind
13:51
of talked about them already, but I think we have to start
13:53
with our hitman, the Vincent Vega and Jules Winfield, played
13:57
by John Travolta and Sammy O Jackson, who to me are just
14:01
literally the definition of dressed to kill.
14:04
They. Are.
14:05
Suited up professionals, they have great style and of course,
14:08
like you said, very reminiscent to your work on Reservoir Dogs.
14:12
These are just two iconic characters.
14:14
Just when you look up film characters, Hitman, you open up
14:18
the page and you see Vince of Vega and Jews Winfield in their
14:21
black and white suit. Yeah, they do feel like a little
14:26
bit more like upgraded, though, compared to what you would see
14:28
in Reservoir Dogs. They feel a little bit more
14:30
tailored up and they each have a little bit more of their own
14:33
unique style. You know, Jules feels a little
14:35
bit more like, more like a preacher.
14:38
And Vince of Vega, you know, has like the one dangly earring.
14:41
He has a little bit more of like a cool hip style, but also he's
14:45
like a little bit more linen. So maybe he's kind of like a
14:48
little bit more. So tell me about like their
14:50
individual styles. You know, Spencer, an answer to
14:53
your question, you are very astute.
14:55
Vincent Linen because he's a mess.
14:59
I wanted him to look like a mess.
15:02
And when you get linen, you just wear it for 1/2 an hour and you
15:07
look like a mess. So that solved a lot of issues
15:11
for us in terms of aging and treating the you know, the thing
15:15
about dogs and pulp is that they were economical stretches of my
15:21
imagination. And, you know, necessity is the
15:29
mother of invention, the old adage.
15:32
So yes, I remember we had a whole thing about how to get
15:37
that earring in John's ear because his ear wasn't pierced.
15:40
But we did resolve it. I don't know how that's a
15:43
question for maybe the makeup artist or the prop man, who
15:48
knows? But he he, he was supposed to be
15:53
schlumpy, you know, just, And so, so he had a more suit of the
16:02
day, which was wider cut in the early 90s, you know, just a
16:06
little fuller and rumply. So I said to I remember saying
16:12
these things to Quentin, just what I said about the rumply
16:15
factor. I said, I think I'd like to do
16:17
some linen on him. And I think for jewels, you
16:20
know, I want the collar on his shirts to be very small.
16:24
I want him to be preacher like because he always has these, you
16:27
know, speech like quality to him.
16:29
And then he gives that, you know, with there he goes that
16:31
big speech he has I. Don't.
16:33
Yeah. So he had a very narrow cut suit
16:38
with that little short collar and a very skinny tie like a
16:41
dressed up reservoir dog. You know, the reservoir dog look
16:47
was I've been to the thrift shop.
16:49
I was told to get a black suit. Well, here's a black jacket,
16:53
here's some black pants. Here's a white shirt that fits
16:56
me and it's here and I'm going to bring it home with me.
16:59
So we weren't talking about any forethought.
17:03
Now we have a history, Vince. Vince is Victoria's brother,
17:09
Victoria Vega from so he knows the drill.
17:12
And I'm sure Jewel, you know, they're all part of a gang.
17:16
So Jules fancies himself a little bit more and he's very
17:19
preacher like. So he's slicker looking right in
17:23
a genuine way. Not like, you know, he believes
17:27
every word he says and every move he makes.
17:29
I mean, Sam Jackson is amazing. He just embodies it and takes it
17:34
forward, as does John. I mean that one John, you know,
17:37
you see these on the set and publicity stills of John in his
17:40
suit and he's just giving it. You know, he's just putting it
17:43
on that slouchy, you know, cowboy.
17:46
To me, he was like the slouchy cowboy.
17:48
Right. I know it's so funny that when
17:50
you say slouchy, but yet like when we'll talk about later.
17:53
But in that dancing, though, it's like, I just want to be
17:55
Vincent Vega, though. Like it's like he's still the
17:59
coolest guy in this. Movie, though it's not a movie
18:02
with Travolta if he's not dancing in later years.
18:07
I was called in to help. I was called in to do Uma
18:12
Thurman's costumes on Be Cool, the sequel to Get Shorty.
18:16
And of course she had to dance with John Travolta.
18:19
And there's like a lot of pressure, like.
18:25
Speaking of the queen bee, Uma Thurman, let's talk about Mia
18:31
Wallace. She is, of course, Marcellus
18:34
Wallace's wife and a aspiring actress.
18:38
She is quite fabulous, obviously rich, but she's not.
18:43
She's never over the top. She's like that, very like
18:47
subtle wealth that people really like to put on today.
18:51
Yeah, I mean, she's a game girl. I mean, the beauty of being a
18:56
costume designer is that you get to read the whole script.
18:59
You know what's happening with their character, you know, the
19:03
the scenarios that are going to be put before them to walk into
19:07
and walk out of. And so you can develop a style
19:12
and a sensibility for them clothes wise, because you know
19:16
the beginning, the middle and the end.
19:17
The audience is going to watch this and it will hopefully be
19:21
revealed to him, to them as they move forward with the story.
19:27
So for me, Uma, she, she, she was the big guy's wife.
19:32
She was the big jealous, violent guy's wife.
19:37
Yeah. So you know, she learned the
19:40
hard way that you can't get too friendly with the help.
19:45
Yes, yes she did. So.
19:51
We see her in the bikini in the beginning at the pool.
19:54
So we know that, you know, they have a pool.
19:56
OK, there's a little shred of information and he's on the
19:59
phone, whatever. But I wanted inside her to say I
20:04
want to be one of the guys. I want the guys to know I am one
20:07
of the guys. I love my husband, but I want to
20:09
be one of the guys. So I said she's a reservoir dog.
20:14
And and then they all looked at me like, you know, but then
20:17
they. Yeah.
20:20
So but she's a reservoir dog in Chanel Golden slippers.
20:25
That's cool. And I mean that takes us to the
20:29
Hollywood 1950s themed restaurant, the iconic twist
20:33
scene that everyone thinks about, which to me is like one
20:35
of the most iconic film scenes ever.
20:39
When they finally get to dance together and it's it is just two
20:43
simple costumes though. I mean, Vincent is still in his
20:46
in his suit, but Mia, she's just in a white shirt, which is I
20:52
guess it's pretty simple, similar to her Reservoir Dog
20:56
outfit, and she's in these black cropped pants and she takes off,
21:01
kicks off her shoes and they just start twisting.
21:04
I mean, take us back to that dance scene.
21:07
Well, you know, that is her reservoir dog outfit.
21:10
It's just that it in the beginning she has a velvet
21:13
jacket on. Another little nod, some books,
21:16
you know, she's on a well cut blazer that's velvet.
21:21
And she's walking out and she's walking out the door and that,
21:25
you know, and those golden shoes.
21:28
But she's got on the white shirt and the black pants and the
21:32
pants are cropped because she's tall.
21:36
And I couldn't find any pants long enough for her that we
21:41
could afford. And so I said, fuck it, let's
21:45
just cut them off. I love that, you know, I mean,
21:51
necessity is the mother of invention.
21:53
I mean, sometimes everybody's like, oh, I didn't have anybody.
21:55
I didn't have anybody. And it's like, yeah, so deal
21:58
with it. Perfect.
22:04
I I love that because it's like the, you know, the crop pants.
22:08
It's a little like Audrey Hepburn.
22:10
It's a throwback to the diner, to the.
22:13
I said, let's bring back the Capri, come on, let's just cut
22:16
them off. I did, you know, that was like,
22:18
you know, and people kind of think.
22:20
And then she was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.
22:23
Let's let's go for it, especially at Jack Rabbit Slims,
22:28
which the whole scene is fun it there's so many colors and I
22:32
love all of the like the themed famous actor waiters.
22:37
How much fun was that to put together?
22:39
Oh, it was, it was great. It was a lot of them were
22:42
already impersonators. You know what I mean?
22:46
You know, the do that for a living.
22:47
You wanted Sullivan, you bring them to the, you know, you bring
22:50
you hired this guy you want so they had the gear, you know,
22:53
they had the stuff. And so, you know, you just put
22:56
them all together and did a tweak here and a tweak there,
22:59
you know? Gotcha.
23:00
That's. Amazing.
23:02
Just looking for James Dean's and buddy Holly's and Marilyn
23:05
Monroe. Well, that's casting.
23:06
We had great, great casting director on that film, Ronnie
23:09
Yeskel. Shout out to Ronnie Yeskel.
23:11
Let me just say something on topic.
23:15
But you say the dance scene is so memorable and yes, it is.
23:19
And a lot, you know, you, I had two great actors on my hands
23:24
there. I mean, honestly, I could put
23:28
anything on Uma and she will make it work.
23:31
I could say, look, I have this giant paper bag.
23:34
What do you think? And she'll, she would probably
23:36
say something to me, like, do you have a belt?
23:38
You know, I mean, I'm putting words in her mouth.
23:40
This has never happened. But you've got her and you've
23:43
got him, who is an amazing dancer.
23:47
He has incredible body language. You know, body language is so
23:51
important to me as a costume designer.
23:54
You I look at how they move, how they move helps me figure out
24:01
what they wear, you know, and what kind of shoes to put on
24:05
them. What is the character?
24:06
Is he a cowboy? Let's put him in cowboy boots,
24:08
whatever, you know. And so when you have these guys
24:13
and you know, that's what makes it great, I mean, it's not.
24:20
So I'm not dissing myself when I say it's not that exciting what
24:24
they're wearing, but they make it great.
24:28
Yeah, no, I mean, it's it all plays a part of it.
24:31
I mean, it comes down to the cast and the script, but also
24:34
just like you said, body language and seeing the way they
24:36
move. And that's something that you
24:38
have to pay attention to that helped them to help them move.
24:40
The shoes, the way the pants fit, the way the shirts help
24:44
them move. And I it's just, it all came
24:46
together in such like synchronosity and which is what
24:49
makes it so iconic. It just feels like everyone on
24:52
set was like just one hive mind all thinking together.
24:55
And I think that what's what makes it one of the greatest
24:58
film scenes of all time. And I, I could rewatch that
25:01
scene just over and over and over.
25:03
And that's it, You know, like I love it.
25:05
I watched it this morning on YouTube before we got on this
25:08
call just to rewatch it one more time.
25:10
It's so good. Well, let's move on to some
25:12
other characters. We have Amanda Plummer's
25:14
character Honey Bunny and Tim Roth as Pumpkin, who's donning
25:18
the Hawaiian shirt, which to me feels it was like such a
25:21
Tarantino staple also because we see Hawaiian shirts also
25:24
Reservoir Dogs going all the way back to we were just talking
25:27
about Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, where we see more
25:29
wine. Shirts are everywhere in these
25:32
Tarantino films, so take us back to that diner.
25:34
You know, the Hawaiian shirt is a staple in my costume history.
25:38
Oh, OK, so let's say that maybe I brought that to his attention,
25:43
or maybe we had that together. I think so that we.
25:46
Both, you know, I mean, you know.
25:48
We found the origin point, the genesis.
25:51
That's that's where this is. Yeah, I mean, I, I can't
25:55
remember why I wanted to put Tim in it.
25:57
Tim's the best, I mean, And of course we knew each other from
26:00
Reservoir Dogs and we had a great costume relationship.
26:04
You know, there's just something very California about it, very
26:08
thrift store about it. I have used thrift store pieces
26:16
since the beginning of my career, mixing and matching and,
26:20
you know, vintage, this vintage that mixed in with modern, you
26:23
know, and so that's the the dog's thread of going shopping
26:29
at the thrift store to me. And so then I, I would assume, I
26:33
can't exactly remember, but I would assume that might have
26:36
been part of my thinking for Tim in that movie.
26:41
And then maybe that's what spawned the outlaw in Hawaiian
26:44
shirt kind of cool guy and Hawaiian shirt guy for Quentin.
26:48
You'll have to ask Quentin, you know, honestly, but she Amanda
26:53
Plummer, you know, it's like you don't want them to stand out.
26:56
You don't want them, you know, So I tried to make her kind of
26:59
drab. Yeah, because they're hiding.
27:02
They're keeping their head down at this.
27:03
Moment, yeah, but you like it. Like I said before, I knew what
27:07
was going to come and I knew that she was unbalanced as a
27:11
character. Yes.
27:13
Yeah, and. So I don't know if you ever
27:15
noticed the necklace she was wearing it.
27:18
It's two different kind of chains that were held together
27:21
with the teddy bear a little. It was a little off necklace.
27:28
So, yeah, the unbalanced and also, you know, just they suited
27:35
each other because he was just really like, so solid.
27:39
And she was sort of off kilter. So she jumps up, you know, and
27:42
then but when she jumped up on the table, she had the little
27:44
cowboy boots on, right. Am I right?
27:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a cowboy theme in
27:49
that movie for me. Not in the script, but for me,
27:52
she's but she was so cute in that little dress.
27:54
That was a very drab dress. But when she got on the table to
27:57
show it off, it showed off her figure.
27:59
It showed off her spunk without detracting from what she was
28:03
doing. I'm a member of the Don't Look
28:06
at Me costume club. There's the Look at Me Costume
28:09
club and the Don't Look at Me costume club.
28:12
If you have a character who wants everybody to be looking at
28:14
her, looking at them all the time, well, then we're all
28:18
members of the Look at Me costume club.
28:21
But in most of the time, I'm just like, let me, let me just
28:25
put the layer on, you know, let me give you shoes and watch you
28:30
walk away. Yeah, well, that's interesting.
28:33
And she's just Her ferocity is just kind of like bubbling at
28:37
the surface though. Waiting till she has to jump up
28:39
on the table though, that's when it's like time for her to really
28:42
take the. Stage, it's full time.
28:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in the meantime, while she's
28:46
like freaking everybody out, he's collecting the money.
28:49
Yeah, they're a very good team. Yeah, absolutely.
28:54
There's some other characters as well, too that present us with
28:58
some lounging moments. I want to talk about, for
29:01
example, our heroin dealer Lance.
29:04
He had a look that I believe Tarantino might have actually
29:07
been familiar with, as he had a shirt that I believe might have
29:11
made its way into the film. Also, Tarantino also made his
29:15
way into the film as well. Too, wearing a different kind of
29:18
bathrobe. Yeah, so this is a film that had
29:20
multiple bathrobes, which I could take.
29:24
I love because I love to lounge so.
29:27
Now that should be the name of our clothing line, yeah.
29:31
I love to lounge. Take us into the love to lounge
29:35
line that found his genesis in this film.
29:38
OK, well, you know, this is a guy.
29:39
See, I'm very pragmatic. I'm the I can't explain.
29:44
I am who I am. But anyway, I figure out.
29:48
OK, this guy, Lance, he never leaves the house.
29:52
First of all, he can't leave the house.
29:54
He'd probably be immediately arrested.
29:55
Yeah. Probably, but that's fair.
29:59
And so he loves to lounge. What else is he going to do?
30:05
And he? You know, he doesn't need a
30:07
sweater, He doesn't need a coat. He needs a bathrobe to lounge
30:12
in. And I remember this is, was a
30:15
great conversation Quentin I had in his apartment about the robe.
30:20
And I was like, you know, I just, it's just going to be just
30:23
like grungy, but I don't know either.
30:25
We have grunge then we might have, I don't remember.
30:27
But just in the, the original sense of the word, I said, I'm
30:29
going to like, again, I'm going to get a robe and I'm going to
30:32
make it this like kind of a Pew screen and I'm going to just
30:36
wash it and wash it and wash it. He was like good, good.
30:41
And then I said, and you know, when we were researching dogs,
30:46
you were showing me Japanese anime.
30:49
You know, this is in 1990. He was showing me Japanese
30:52
anime. I love that Speed Racer T-shirt.
30:55
Wouldn't that be great because he's this drug dealer if he wore
30:59
Speed Racer? And Quentin said, I have that
31:02
T-shirt in the drawer and voila. Huh.
31:04
Perfect. Which I didn't watch.
31:07
He's probably watching, but that's so funny.
31:13
It's a. Hilarious.
31:16
Joke called me one day and said I'm auditioning for this part
31:20
and I want to look just because he's a friend of mine.
31:22
I want to look like Lance. Can you can you get me one of
31:26
those robes? OK, that's.
31:30
So funny. Find a dirty robe.
31:33
Good luck finding a dirty robe. I was talking to that robe,
31:39
right? A long time.
31:41
Ago, no, but Spencer, a long time ago and you know, I worked
31:44
my way up from seamstress and a long time ago I went from
31:47
seamstress to dire cause I've had schooling in color theory,
31:52
etcetera. And so I dyed that robe that
31:55
color. I didn't just find it that
31:57
color. Well, interesting.
31:59
And Speaking of that art and getting things dirty and
32:03
undirty, Vincent and Jules end up getting some brains on their
32:08
clothing, right? Quite a little bit of brains and
32:12
they end up changing into their Santa Cruz clothing.
32:15
So I was going to actually ask you about the there's.
32:18
Another clothing one. Yeah, so I was going to actually
32:23
ask you about the aging and dying that went into Pulp
32:26
Fiction, because there's quite a bit of brains that go into this.
32:29
The Santa Cruz, their Santa Cruz line, because we have to have
32:33
the word there and there for the clothing line, their Santa Cruz
32:36
line. OK, so now we have another guy
32:40
in a robe who never leaves the house.
32:43
Right. But I saw that robe.
32:46
I was on my way out of the thrift store shopping for Pulp
32:50
Fiction. I saw that.
32:52
You know how they hang the robes on hangers by the door?
32:54
I don't know why. And I was like, oh, my God.
32:57
Oh my God, I love it. This is it, you know, So he was
33:03
wearing a robe because there his wife works nights and he's
33:07
waiting up for her. Whatever's happening, he's just
33:10
in his robe, you know, and she's gone off to work.
33:12
Whatever. They've stayed up all night.
33:14
I don't know what. But he's not like a drug dealer
33:17
in a robe. He's just a regular guy in a
33:18
robe whose wife works different hours and he hangs out by the
33:23
pool while she's at work. And So what do you have in your
33:27
closet to give people that have brains all over them?
33:32
T-shirts and swim trunks, T-shirts and shorts, T-shirts
33:37
and swim trunks. So that was the beginning,
33:40
right? And Quentin like that idea.
33:44
And he said, I really want him to wear a Santa Cruz Slugs
33:48
T-shirt because I went to school there.
33:50
And I said, groovy, I went to school there too.
33:53
So in those days we didn't have product placement people.
33:56
We did all that ourselves. So I called the Dean of Santa
34:00
Cruz, and in those days you could get the Dean on the phone.
34:04
You know, this is the whole nother world we're talking
34:06
about. Yeah.
34:07
And I explained all this in the Reservoir Dog.
34:09
Oh, no. I'd love to.
34:11
And we really want to. And he went there and got the
34:15
T-shirts free and, you know, signed off on the the T-shirt.
34:19
Wow. And the other T-shirt came from
34:21
Ross Dress for Less, and I just liked the graphic on it.
34:26
It was a band graphic. And I thought, yeah, he would
34:28
have this looks like something he would have in his, you know,
34:32
drawers. So I just recently found out
34:38
when we were doing some, I think it was reshoot the the
34:42
additional photography on Naked Gun, they had one of the editors
34:47
of Naked Gun come in and do like a cameo in one of the scenes.
34:50
Like he just like walking through and he was like coming
34:53
up to me like, Oh my God, Oh my God.
34:57
And it turns out that the other T-shirt was some random
35:01
underground band that this guy followed that meant a lot to him
35:06
that he'd been searching all over.
35:08
He could not believe that I had put that T-shirt in the film.
35:13
And I'm like, wow. Wow, I can.
35:16
Look and see what that is. And honestly, and he was so
35:21
excited and I got all excited. So isn't that funny?
35:24
Ross? And I told him I got in a Ross
35:26
dress for less. And he just looked at me like,
35:28
you know, you didn't have to fool me.
35:31
It's OK. Just tell me the truth here.
35:33
I'm like, no, no, I really got it there.
35:36
So that was that. That's wild, Hilarious.
35:42
I love that. Yeah.
35:44
And looking back and, like, you know, you're still having
35:49
interactions, people talking about your work on the film.
35:53
What does it mean to you to have been a part of something that
35:55
continues to influence film and fashion?
35:58
I'm very fortunate. I'm, I'm very, I'm really happy
36:02
about it. It, it makes me feel great.
36:05
You know, in a, in a world where, what have you done for me
36:10
lately kind of world, it's nice to know that some things do
36:15
linger and to have been a part of that lingering.
36:19
Betsy, this has been so much fun.
36:21
I love this film, I love talking to you, but we're not quite done
36:25
yet. We're going to take a little
36:26
break and when we come back we're going to be talking about
36:29
another iconic film and some more iconic costumes and
36:33
probably one of the most iconic coats in film history.
36:37
So. We'll be right back, everyone.
36:43
That was such a good fun. I just so much good information.
36:53
It's so fun to just go back and just hear what it was like to
36:58
just be back in, in that moment. I just, I don't know, it's just
37:02
like I got chills the whole time.
37:05
Yeah, absolutely. Just like hearing all her
37:07
stories, assuming like, oh, this must be the inspiration for
37:11
that. And she's like, oh, actually, I
37:16
love every second, but I think it's time to maybe give Pulp
37:22
Fiction a Stitch rating. Yeah, I think that's fair.
37:28
I am going to give Pulp Fiction a solid 4.5.
37:38
Yeah, a 4.5. You know, because I have a,
37:45
because I have a asterisk. OK.
37:51
Only because I still get a little weirded out with Quentin
37:55
Tarantino's, like, writing in his own use of some explicit
38:01
language that he wrote for his character that he plays.
38:05
I just think it's a little, I don't know, eyebrow raising
38:08
moments that he wrote for his own character is what I'm
38:11
saying. For me, Pulp Fiction's
38:16
definitely a solid for for the same reasons.
38:19
I'm just like, what are we doing quitting?
38:24
Yeah, Pulp Fiction's great, but there are just some things where
38:26
I'm like. Yeah, was.
38:29
It was that necessary? Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
38:34
Very interesting. But what we probably can't agree
38:36
on is that I absolutely love the costumes.
38:39
I think the costume design is almost perfect.
38:42
So I'd be very interested to hear what your one costume to
38:45
rule them all is are ready to play our favorite game.
38:48
I am. Absolutely ready to play our
38:50
favorite game? Hit it the one costume to rule
38:55
them all. All right, Elizabeth, do you
39:01
want to go first or do you want me to go first?
39:05
I'll, I'll go first. OK.
39:08
'Cause it's like a little bit of A2 Fer MY1 costume to rule them
39:17
all is Vincent Vega and Jules Winfield.
39:22
They're matching suits with just like they're not like this.
39:28
They look like they're matching, but they have like their little
39:31
like accessories that like differentiate them and make them
39:36
their own people. It's like very subtle and you
39:41
know, you know, these guys are like working together, working
39:46
for the same person because of how they're dressed.
39:49
But you know, it's like not that strict, but also by how they're
39:53
dressed, how they accessorize, how they present themselves.
39:57
And then you see them like shoot people and you're like, oh,
40:00
that. That's why they have to be
40:02
nondescript to a degree. And I love how.
40:08
They're assassins. Great.
40:10
Fantastic. How Betsy?
40:12
I love how Betsy like so clearly carried over the Reservoir Dogs
40:17
like visual language too from her first film of Tarantino as
40:21
well too. I thought that was a really cool
40:24
treat that they both agreed on too from the jump as well too.
40:29
I I agree, What's your own costume to rule them all?
40:32
You know, I feel like my favorite costume.
40:35
It's a very simple one, but it's always been.
40:38
It is kind of A2 Fer. Also it's Mia Wallace and
40:43
Vincent Vega's diner dancing. It's really it's me as a white
40:48
long sleeve shirt and the Croft pants.
40:51
It's simple. It's just a white shirt and some
40:54
pants, but just the way that they dance and her pants are
40:58
just Crofts just perfectly where you could just they it's just a
41:02
body language and a movement. It's just iconic.
41:05
And the way the room is lit and the colours and the way they
41:09
move in it, the way her, the way her Bob moves.
41:13
I don't know, just so everything just feels so perfect in that
41:15
moment. That scene could be 10 minutes
41:18
long and just everything just feels so right in that moment.
41:21
And I mean, this is one of those like Halloween costumes you see
41:25
every year. Like everyone like tries to like
41:28
be Mia in this moment. So I just feel like Betsy like
41:34
captured something in this one, like, you know, magic in a
41:37
bottle or whatever. With this costume, something so
41:40
simple, even though it was something like she said she like
41:43
cut the pants a little bit. Like instead they couldn't find
41:46
pants long enough so they just cut them.
41:48
And something so simple just created something so magical.
41:52
And I think that's really cool. So to me, that's the costume.
41:56
You would think I would pick the look later when she's wearing a
41:59
coat over it because it is like a bad ass coat.
42:02
So I really like this like stripped down version of it.
42:06
So that's my one costume. I love that and I love getting
42:10
to talk to Betsy about Pulp Fiction.
42:14
But Spencer, we have something very special coming up next.
42:20
My gosh, I, I have. OK, so first I will say that I
42:25
had so much fun doing the past two episodes.
42:28
We did a a deep dive into two films that happened to be
42:32
Tarantino related. It was we were trying out this
42:37
like director thing and then Tarantino said some stuff about
42:41
some people. So then we kind of merge into
42:43
like Ala month. So now we're really going to try
42:47
like a director deep dive. So I'm so excited.
42:51
I feel like we need a little drum roll as we announce this
42:54
next three-part series that we're going to start in April.
43:00
Gosh, I'm very excited. This next series is called
43:03
Dressed in the Red Room, the David Lynch series.
43:09
I am so excited. We're going to do 3 episodes
43:13
starting in April. The 1st episode is going to be a
43:19
doozy of a film, which we've talked about before.
43:22
We're going to explore the costumes of David Lynch's Dune,
43:26
which is a bonkers film. The costumes are intense.
43:35
You know, maybe not David Lynch's favorite film, but
43:38
that's kind of why we're getting into it.
43:40
We're going to go explore that film, which then kind of played
43:44
as a jump off point into the next one we're going to talk
43:47
about in that series, which was Blue Velvet, which really kind
43:53
of moved into some fun, interesting costumes, which
43:57
really showed the progression of the David Lynch style in terms
44:00
of costumes. And in the final episode in that
44:03
series, maybe. No, I think we should tell
44:06
people because they really need to prepare for this episode.
44:09
They need the time prepare Elizabeth and I are going to
44:12
talk about in our final episode of the series, Twin Peaks.
44:19
So you all need to get started on preparing for that episode.
44:23
So yes, this is going to be the series of series.
44:27
It's almost like we're doing our spooky season in April and May,
44:31
so. I know.
44:33
I know. Very spooky, but like what an
44:39
incredible director David Lynch was and had such good costume
44:44
design. Yeah.
44:46
Constantly. It's it's so interesting.
44:48
I mean, it's not like his costumes, well, except for Dune,
44:51
which we'll get into which those were over the top.
44:56
But like the David Lynch style in terms of costume was
44:59
sometimes at times very subtle, but it always had a it always
45:04
had an eye. It always was very stylized and
45:07
very David Lynch ways. So I'm excited to explore that
45:12
over to these these three episode.
45:15
So in the meantime, please e-mail us at the
45:18
rfcostume@gmail.com. Let us know what you thought of
45:22
our Tarantino Los Angeles series, what your favorite
45:25
costumes were from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood or to Pulp
45:27
Fiction episode. I should say that also this Pulp
45:32
Fiction episode was also a part one of our Betsy Hyman series.
45:38
We should have said that we that was only half of our interview.
45:44
So Betsy Hyman will be back later in this season.
45:48
I won't say for what, but that was only half of the interview.
45:52
So you'll hear more from her later this season for another
45:55
film, perhaps during Hot Girl Summer.
45:57
So we'll leave it without that. So e-mail us perhaps more
46:00
questions. Let us know what questions you
46:04
might have about some of these David Lynch films we just
46:07
mentioned. Perhaps we'll get into those.
46:09
Follow us on Instagram at the art of costume pod TikTok at the
46:13
art of costume. You could check out our merch
46:15
store, theartofcostume.com/pod store.
46:18
And as always, leave us a five star text of view on Apple
46:21
podcast and go listen to the costume house.
46:25
You could check out some new episodes.
46:27
We just did the bluff with Antoinette Messam, which was a
46:30
new pirate film, which was a lot of film.
46:32
You know, I love talking about pirates.
46:35
You do. We also had two people
46:39
exchanging saliva, which just won an Oscar.
46:43
We had the directors slash writers, which won Oscars, which
46:48
was fun. It was my first time
46:50
interviewing directors slash writers.
46:52
And we have some other cool stuff coming up there on the
46:55
costume house too. So some new interesting things,
46:59
not just costume designers, but they all still are related to
47:02
costumes. But I'm very excited, so check
47:05
it out. Everyone have a fantastic week,
47:09
we will see you soon.