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ep13 The Deep Dark Woods can feel it · Almost Famous Enough

• 0:24
  Ryan Boldt of The Deep Dark Woods really made me feel something.
• 0:29
  There was a moment in our conversation when he told me he listens to music all of the time, and he is always looking for a song to make him feel something.
• 0:37
  I've always cared more about the way a song can break my heart than the perfection or the execution of the notes, and to borrow from an overused term.
• 0:45
  I felt seen when I heard him say that.
• 0:48
  And isn't that what human connection is really all about?
• 0:51
  You go about your day and then you sit down to get to know someone and in a moment.
• 0:56
  A word you and him are the same.
• 0:59
  I had all kinds of paths already carved out to supposedly achieve this common ground.
• 1:04
  You know, our band started at the same time, shared the same stages.
• 1:08
  We grew up in the same part of the country.
• 1:10
  I was friends with his cousin, but it was the thing he confessed that really makes him, Ryan, that connected with the thing that really makes me, Glen, that cut through.
• 1:21
  And isn't that the gift of what an artist does?
• 1:23
  Not surprisingly, for 20 years now to connect with who we really are.
• 1:29
  The deep dark woods have produced seven full length albums and an imminent eighth garnered local and international awards, and toured the world while managing the unpredictable shifts of lineup changes, relocation, various label deals, and a pandemic.
• 1:43
  They're easily described as a traditional folk roots band, but those singular labels fall shorter than usual.
• 1:50
  And you'll find yourself wanting to add some version of blues and country and more with modern nods to quiet storytelling artists of your preference.
• 1:59
  And then you'll realize you left out the crucial nods to past greats like The Band or The Grateful Dead.
• 2:05
  My name is Glen Erickson.
• 2:07
  This is Almost Famous Enough.
• 2:09
  Thank you for spending your time with us.
• 2:11
  This is The Deep Dark Woods.
• 2:27
  Glen Erickson: thanks for joining me anyhow, Ryan, uh, Ryan Boldt, The Deep Dark Woods.
• 2:31
  Glen Erickson: Appreciate this.
• 2:32
  Glen Erickson: you are, in southern Ontario.
• 2:35
  Glen Erickson: you know, I always knew you from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, the middle of the prairies.
• 2:40
  Glen Erickson: So, since your band and sound has always sat in the pocket of Americana, we might as well do a little canadiana.
• 2:46
  Glen Erickson: And where in Southern Ontario are you sitting right now?
• 2:50
  Ryan: I'm in, uh, London, Ontario now.
• 2:53
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 2:53
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 2:54
  Glen Erickson: Right in the, right in the city.
• 2:56
  Glen Erickson: Great, great little city.
• 2:57
  Glen Erickson: Do they still have the folk club there?
• 2:59
  Ryan: No, unfortunately that closed.
• 3:02
  Glen Erickson: that's too bad.
• 3:03
  Ryan: they have an, they have, there was like that tiny, uh, what was it called?
• 3:07
  Ryan: The music, London Music Hall
• 3:10
  Glen Erickson: Yep,
• 3:10
  Ryan: like
• 3:10
  Glen Erickson: yep,
• 3:11
  Ryan: that one's gone, but they have a little place called Chaster Pub and they put
• 3:16
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 3:17
  Ryan: there.
• 3:17
  Ryan: Um,
• 3:18
  Glen Erickson: cool.
• 3:18
  Ryan: lots of good people come like, you know, Eric
• 3:21
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 3:21
  Ryan: kind of guys, so
• 3:23
  Glen Erickson: Nice.
• 3:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 3:24
  Glen Erickson: I remember playing in the basement of the London Music Hall Little Club there a couple of times, and tapping on the three people I knew in London to try come out every single time and bring their friends, great people, they were very hospitable.
• 3:38
  Glen Erickson: So you're in London, Ontario.
• 3:39
  Glen Erickson: You've been there how long?
• 3:40
  Glen Erickson: How long have you been there since you made that move out East.
• 3:43
  Ryan: Well, I moved out here to be with my wife.
• 3:47
  Ryan: That was, uh, 2017 I believe.
• 3:52
  Ryan: then, uh, we moved away to.
• 3:54
  Ryan: To Nova Scotia during, um, and
• 3:58
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 3:59
  Ryan: stayed
• 4:00
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 4:00
  Ryan: three years or so and have been back now for a full, just over a full year.
• 4:05
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 4:06
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 4:06
  Glen Erickson: so you famously, of course, started out in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and I guess part of my curiosity is was it like actual Saskatoon, or was it Saskatoon adjacent, or did, uh, I just seemed to, I grew up in Regina, Saskatchewan, and I seem to always feel like, a lot of people, you know, maybe they lived in Warman or they, or they were in Domini or, or some version, you know, that they kind of just trickled in, in their twenties through their college years.
• 4:36
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, whether that was you or your band members, wa was, uh, was it all Saskatoon proper or
• 4:42
  Ryan: I
• 4:43
  Glen Erickson: otherwise?
• 4:43
  Ryan: uh, Sask Saskatoon.
• 4:46
  Ryan: I, I grew up there and, but we spent a lot of time up at Christopher Lake, which is,
• 4:52
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 4:52
  Ryan: just north of Prince Albert.
• 4:55
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 4:56
  Glen Erickson: Lake Country for sure.
• 4:57
  Ryan: So that, that's where I met, uh, my band at the time, Chris Mason and Bert Barlow.
• 5:03
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 5:04
  Ryan: from, from going to camp and all that.
• 5:07
  Ryan: and so we,
• 5:08
  Glen Erickson: That's awesome.
• 5:08
  Ryan: was living in
• 5:09
  Glen Erickson: I,
• 5:10
  Ryan: for, for the summer.
• 5:11
  Ryan: We started the band and,
• 5:13
  Glen Erickson: okay, so how old were you when you guys started?
• 5:15
  Glen Erickson: 2005.
• 5:16
  Glen Erickson: Deep Dark Woods
• 5:17
  Ryan: I
• 5:18
  Glen Erickson: together.
• 5:19
  Ryan: I was 22.
• 5:21
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 5:22
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 5:22
  Glen Erickson: Pretty classic age to start a,
• 5:24
  Ryan: yeah,
• 5:24
  Glen Erickson: your friends, right?
• 5:25
  Glen Erickson: So you have a, you have a new single Ryan and I wanna for sure talk about it and, and sort of find out where you are right now, obviously where you're headed.
• 5:35
  Glen Erickson: I also just really love to back all the way up and.
• 5:38
  Glen Erickson: Tell some of the story all the way up to where we are right now and sort of, I don't know, I want to get a better picture of sort of who you are and what that arc has looked like in your career.
• 5:48
  Glen Erickson: And I think whatever the pieces are that kind of stand out, that shaped that for you.
• 5:53
  Glen Erickson: So if we start back there at 2005, you said 22 years old, a group of friends.
• 5:59
  Glen Erickson: You started going to camp in late country Saskatchewan with, I, I guess my very first question obviously, know, you're renowned for your very traditional sound.
• 6:09
  Glen Erickson: I mean, right outta the gate, you know, traditional music, traditional roots, and all the sort of parallels that were sort of being thrown your way.
• 6:17
  Glen Erickson: and I think what was obviously interesting at the time was, I think people found it interesting when young men kind of put on old clothes, right?
• 6:25
  Glen Erickson: So.
• 6:26
  Glen Erickson: You know, you guys, you guys come out like a fully formed, very like folk driven band that, you know, sounds like they moved from the backyard fire pit right.
• 6:35
  Glen Erickson: To a stage very seamlessly, very affable.
• 6:39
  Glen Erickson: So what was, what was the thing that you guys formed around?
• 6:43
  Glen Erickson: Was that driven by your interest in songwriting or did these group of guys all have this same unique interest in traditional music and sounds for their age?
• 6:53
  Ryan: no, that, that was, uh, uh, like I started maybe playing, uh, songs, uh, in my parents' basement, my bedroom, when I was, know, 17, 18, I was playing, you know, all.
• 7:08
  Ryan: Irish and American songs and, and singing Neil Young and Bob Dylan, stuff like
• 7:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 7:14
  Ryan: And probably around 19 is when I first started writing songs.
• 7:20
  Ryan: There weren't very good songs, but, uh, I started writing.
• 7:24
  Ryan: And, uh, that was when I was living in DC with, uh, right after high school.
• 7:29
  Ryan: I was, uh, I started writing.
• 7:31
  Ryan: knew
• 7:32
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 7:32
  Ryan: to do and, uh, and then I moved back to Saskatchewan to form the band.
• 7:37
  Ryan: but, those, those guys were kind of into more, like Radiohead and all that sort of stuff.
• 7:44
  Ryan: and I, I kind of turned them on to, to Bob Dylan and,
• 7:48
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 7:48
  Ryan: folk,
• 7:49
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 7:50
  Glen Erickson: well, I mean that there's a lot of parallels.
• 7:53
  Glen Erickson: So you and I have met before, a few times I played in the band, the wheat pool.
• 7:57
  Glen Erickson: Um, so we had a whole bunch of intersections around, think the time from about 2007 to 11 or 12.
• 8:05
  Glen Erickson: I remember, I, I think that's really interesting parallel in a sense that I came into that band and their two brothers who really wanted to explore their, their roots of their love of Neil Young, Gordon Lightfoot, all that kind of songwriting.
• 8:18
  Ryan: right.
• 8:18
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, I, I came from that indie rock Radiohead world, but, I had this side door of, I think Wilco was where we sort of cross first crossed, and then I, I just kept getting sucked in deeper and deeper for, to, uh, to a lot of Canadian that I, you know, and Americana stuff that I, know, probably wished I had heard sooner.
• 8:37
  Glen Erickson: So that's, that's, that's an interesting start out.
• 8:40
  Glen Erickson: So, so you guys start playing this music, you bring it out, obviously you're getting, uh, some momentum is building up.
• 8:46
  Glen Erickson: In other words, probably in the typical band way of, somebody hears you play, they like what they hear, they book you for some shows, the response goes, well, you keep getting booked for shows.
• 8:55
  Glen Erickson: And that snowball kind of begins, so from my outside perspective, right?
• 8:59
  Glen Erickson: Like you have your first record in 2007.
• 9:02
  Glen Erickson: And then 2009, 2011, sort of this steady, typical two year album.
• 9:07
  Glen Erickson: Album.
• 9:07
  Glen Erickson: Album.
• 9:09
  Glen Erickson: Did that feel like, a straight line of a snowball rolling down a hill, building right from of 2005 outta the gate to then
• 9:17
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 9:17
  Ryan: definitely.
• 9:18
  Ryan: We started, uh, think we played our first show at Amigos in 2005, and then from
• 9:26
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 9:26
  Glen Erickson: Famous pub.
• 9:28
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 9:28
  Ryan: Um, then from there, we started playing more shows.
• 9:32
  Ryan: We'd play every, you know, month or so, and the word got out and the shows started selling out.
• 9:39
  Ryan: And, uh, then we started traveling a little bit, going to
• 9:43
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 9:44
  Ryan: and Prince Albert's and, and then making our way to, to Edmonton and Calgary.
• 9:49
  Ryan: And eventually in 2007 we went out to and that's where we met, Steve Dawson from Black Hen Records.
• 9:59
  Ryan: uh, he came to the show and loved it and wanted to
• 10:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 10:02
  Ryan: us.
• 10:03
  Ryan: so he, we had our Hang me Oh, hang me record out at that point.
• 10:07
  Ryan: And, and, uh, he loved it.
• 10:09
  Ryan: And I believe that one was on, yeah, it was on, uh, End.
• 10:13
  Ryan: So after we recorded that, he wanted to release it, and
• 10:17
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 10:17
  Glen Erickson: So he picked that up and then you recorded the next record
• 10:20
  Ryan: With
• 10:21
  Glen Erickson: as well.
• 10:21
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 10:21
  Glen Erickson: So, that's the winter hours record.
• 10:24
  Glen Erickson: So I, I remember distinctly, uh, meeting you guys, I think, and seeing you.
• 10:29
  Glen Erickson: At the Moose Jaw Breakout West, or it was just called the Western and Canadian Music Awards, I think back then in Moose Jaw.
• 10:37
  Glen Erickson: we didn't even have a record out then.
• 10:38
  Glen Erickson: I remember begging a guy from Calgary who was kind of a, right in the middle of the scene, this great guy named Laurie Matheson.
• 10:46
  Glen Erickson: He had a show booked with you guys.
• 10:47
  Glen Erickson: I begged him to put us on the bill
• 10:50
  Ryan: Okay.
• 10:51
  Glen Erickson: he did What a sweetheart.
• 10:52
  Glen Erickson: So he came down and played that show.
• 10:55
  Glen Erickson: I remember that.
• 10:55
  Glen Erickson: And I remember there was again, the same festival, Western Kennedy Music Awards in Edmonton.
• 11:01
  Glen Erickson: Maybe it was the next year or the year after we had an album out by that point.
• 11:05
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, this is gonna be a funny story for you, and, and I should preface it to say, I have no jealousy or whatever about the Deep Dark Woods or Bounds band.
• 11:13
  Glen Erickson: This might sound like it when I tell you this story.
• 11:15
  Glen Erickson: So we're, it's this, uh, this venue called The Artery in Edmonton, Alberta.
• 11:20
  Glen Erickson: And festival's going on, and you guys were booked and the place was packed and it was hopping.
• 11:26
  Glen Erickson: of course I did a lot of the business in our band.
• 11:28
  Glen Erickson: So I did the due diligence kind of, I did the cringey stuff like finding out who the agents and who all the, gatekeeper people were that were there for the festival.
• 11:39
  Glen Erickson: And course we had the very typical aspirations of South by Southwest, very early, probably too early.
• 11:45
  Glen Erickson: I found out who the guy was.
• 11:46
  Glen Erickson: he was at that show watching you guys.
• 11:49
  Glen Erickson: I remember standing beside him and striking up a conversation while you guys were playing.
• 11:54
  Glen Erickson: This is so funny to me now.
• 11:56
  Glen Erickson: and for whatever Cavalier off the cuff reason, I was like, these guys are amazing, right?
• 12:01
  Glen Erickson: And he is like, yeah, he is like, I was like, you guys should, you should totally book them for South By Man.
• 12:06
  Glen Erickson: He did book you guys for South by that year and he didn't book us and was specifically told he was only picking one band out of that whole sort of genre and space of alt country.
• 12:18
  Glen Erickson: So the guys in the band, I don't know if they were super happy that I, not that he booked you on my recommendation, but it was just, it was just a funny, ironic moment to me.
• 12:30
  Glen Erickson: So, but I was a fan right off the bat from that point.
• 12:33
  Glen Erickson: And I remember, I can remember specifically you guys playing, hang Me, oh, hang Me, and that, bop to that song, always got everybody up in the room, which was fantastic.
• 12:42
  Glen Erickson: And I think our favorite thing always about your band was, uh, your bassist Chris, who this fantastic sort of up down bop while he started playing.
• 12:51
  Glen Erickson: He would just get lost in the groove and, and it was so fun to watch.
• 12:56
  Glen Erickson: Great guy.
• 12:56
  Glen Erickson: So, yeah, my, so my first introduction is that album and that song.
• 13:00
  Glen Erickson: which was independent.
• 13:02
  Glen Erickson: And then like you said, you connected with Steve Dawson, who at that time was Blacken, was really quickly evolving.
• 13:08
  Glen Erickson: I think the Canadian music scene, CBC Radio three is a big part of it.
• 13:12
  Glen Erickson: a lot of black he songs and Steve seemed like a perfect fit.
• 13:16
  Ryan: Mm-hmm.
• 13:17
  Glen Erickson: you make the second record, and then you sort of move into the third record.
• 13:22
  Glen Erickson: the place I left Behind and then that move goes to six shooters.
• 13:25
  Glen Erickson: So I'm curious what's happening in that sort of five year span of, you're getting a lot of shows, you're getting offers, you're being asked to go to South by you're in talks with six shooter.
• 13:35
  Glen Erickson: Did that feel fast?
• 13:37
  Glen Erickson: How was that happening?
• 13:38
  Glen Erickson: Unraveling for
• 13:40
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 13:40
  Glen Erickson: sort of traditional band like you guys.
• 13:43
  Ryan: yeah, it, it, it felt very, very fast.
• 13:46
  Ryan: it just seemed like there was good news all the time that
• 13:50
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 13:51
  Ryan: remember I was on some message board from, I think it was like a Bob Dylan message board from year, for years.
• 13:58
  Ryan: At that point, I obsessed with.
• 14:01
  Ryan: Bob Dylan and I posted a video of my band and somebody that worked for Hill Records.
• 14:09
  Ryan: really liked it and sent me a message and we got to talking and he, I told him we were coming down to, I think it was Nashville or some somewhere.
• 14:19
  Ryan: he came and watched us and from that point we signed with Sugar Hill down in, in like the whole world.
• 14:26
  Ryan: And then six shooter in Canada.
• 14:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 14:29
  Ryan: and around that time we got with a new manager, an American manager from Sweetly, uh, he now puts on like Shaking Knees Festival and all
• 14:40
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 14:41
  Ryan: of massive festivals.
• 14:43
  Ryan: and because of him, a lot of the stuff happened.
• 14:45
  Ryan: Uh, we were nominated for Awards and we were
• 14:50
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 14:50
  Ryan: up in the us, um, playing mostly in the US and then the odd in Canada.
• 14:57
  Ryan: Um, yeah, so it
• 14:58
  Glen Erickson: So,
• 14:58
  Ryan: was very quick.
• 15:00
  Ryan: All of it.
• 15:00
  Glen Erickson: so I think, so part of the reason I like to have these conversations on this podcast is to authentically pull veil back a little bit on what careers in music look like, uh, and what's actually happening.
• 15:14
  Glen Erickson: You know, I think everybody has that aspiration of we were able to kick the snowball down the hill and it just kept going.
• 15:20
  Glen Erickson: And like you said, like everything we heard was good news, for a long time, which is a very interesting way to put it.
• 15:27
  Glen Erickson: I think one of the ways most young bands that I've watched aren't prepared for that snowball to happen, especially if it feels fast, is you tend to just all, you know, when you're young, you just don't have a lot of other skills, such as, like trying to figure out how the money flows when all this stuff, and you're, now you're paying, someone else is on the payroll, now you have a manager, now you have an agent.
• 15:50
  Glen Erickson: Now you have different people that are on the payroll, so to speak.
• 15:53
  Glen Erickson: Uh, and yes, you're getting the opportunities.
• 15:55
  Glen Erickson: I, I'm curious at that time and your experience, was that, was that a challenge?
• 16:00
  Glen Erickson: Was that, did that feel messy?
• 16:02
  Glen Erickson: Did you feel like you got lucky and landed with the right people to help with it?
• 16:06
  Glen Erickson: How did, that side of the business unravel for you?
• 16:10
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 16:10
  Ryan: we, we got very lucky.
• 16:13
  Ryan: Chris Mason and Lucas Getz, the, the drummer at the time very good at, at, money Stuff.
• 16:21
  Ryan: Me
• 16:21
  Glen Erickson: at the business side.
• 16:22
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 16:23
  Ryan: I'm not very good.
• 16:24
  Ryan: I'm not very good at that sort of thing.
• 16:26
  Ryan: I was focused on songs and
• 16:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 16:29
  Ryan: shows and, uh, but we did have an amazing manager who hooked us up with a, a great business manager.
• 16:37
  Ryan: We had a, an amazing lawyer.
• 16:39
  Ryan: Uh, all American guys, really helped us
• 16:43
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 16:44
  Ryan: with, all that, that so much that we didn't really have to worry at that point.
• 16:48
  Ryan: and like I said, everything was, uh, at that point, the, like early mid 2010, like the 2000 tens.
• 16:57
  Ryan: kind of music was really popular.
• 17:00
  Ryan: so we got in just at the perfect time for people to care.
• 17:05
  Ryan: It doesn't seem like care as much about, folk music or folk rock music as much as they used to.
• 17:11
  Ryan: but yeah, because of that, that was, that, that helped.
• 17:14
  Ryan: And, uh, yeah.
• 17:15
  Ryan: And then having Tim, our manager, he pushed things to the next level.
• 17:20
  Ryan: Definitely.
• 17:20
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 17:21
  Glen Erickson: I mean, do you feel, do you feel that observation about the perception of maybe how the public cares about or versions of traditional.
• 17:29
  Glen Erickson: Music.
• 17:30
  Glen Erickson: I mean, there was an interesting blend right then, back then, right?
• 17:33
  Glen Erickson: Because there's such still, I mean, there still is to wonder however people think a, a divide between, popular or mainstream and the industry that goes with it versus what we would call indie because it doesn't have the corporate machine behind it.
• 17:47
  Glen Erickson: and I felt like indie there was, you know, has always adopted and overlapped and, blended a lot of things, because it's generally fueled by an audience that is more accepting, right?
• 17:59
  Glen Erickson: They're just not looking for the cookie cutter mainstream version of music.
• 18:03
  Glen Erickson: yeah, I feel like they were really embracing that sort of either most traditional, like our, our band was like surging through the alt country.
• 18:11
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 18:11
  Glen Erickson: Appetite of that time, kind of on the heels of a lot of those bands of Ryan Adams and Whiskeytown and, and But,
• 18:18
  Ryan: Right.
• 18:18
  Glen Erickson: um, but you guys had a whole different range of things you're overlapping with and I can see why it'd be really popular in the States since they have a deeper depth of traditional music and how blues and, and country and bluegrass and folk all overlap.
• 18:34
  Glen Erickson: And so do you feel like the observation that it's changed from, 2009 to, you know, now two 20, 2025, is that just an effect of, the sub-genre not feeling as strong or promoted or do you think any other shift has happened?
• 18:52
  Ryan: Um, I, I think musical tastes are constantly changing.
• 18:57
  Ryan: right now it's not, it's not a cool thing for, younger people.
• 19:02
  Ryan: I mean, there's, there's a, there is like a little bit of a kind of folky sort of thing going on, but it's like, you know, don't know how, how to properly explain the type.
• 19:14
  Ryan: Like there's like Jessica Pratt and that
• 19:16
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 19:17
  Ryan: Um.
• 19:18
  Ryan: White fence, like more of the psychedelic kind of folk rock stuff.
• 19:22
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 19:23
  Ryan: and that's kind of what I'm sort of doing right now in a certain way.
• 19:27
  Ryan: uh, but it's definitely a lot more traditional than that, music.
• 19:31
  Ryan: so I
• 19:32
  Glen Erickson: The folk music festival circuits still seem pretty strong.
• 19:37
  Glen Erickson: Uh, do you feel like you see a probably much wider range and lens of that than I do?
• 19:42
  Glen Erickson: Does that feel like that that area has stayed pretty healthy?
• 19:45
  Ryan: I mean, it's definitely healthy, but even the folk festivals have changed, like the, the musical styles have changed at those.
• 19:53
  Ryan: It's hard to
• 19:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 19:55
  Ryan: a folk artist at the folk festivals now.
• 19:57
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 19:58
  Glen Erickson: There's, it's funny, like I'm here in Edmonton and our folk festival, which has sort of maintained it's size and health and, but it's maintained its tradition to of a lot of people around here, right?
• 20:11
  Glen Erickson: Who they continue to book traditional.
• 20:14
  Glen Erickson: Artists, folk artists as the heart and soul and the bulk, and even, even mostly in the headlining sphere, you know, compared to like our neighbors down the road in Calgary who, you know, are sort of, I think a more example of the more modern folk fest right now who tend to step further outside of, uh, those more traditional circles with their, so I, but I hear, I, I hear all the time about, uh, you know, one crowd would love it if would a little less traditional and other people are like wanting to fiercely protect that, that tradition and that history.
• 20:45
  Glen Erickson: So,
• 20:46
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 20:46
  Glen Erickson: um,
• 20:47
  Ryan: uh, I think it's important to, change, you gotta know your roots.
• 20:53
  Ryan: uh, may maintain that a little bit, but I mean, obviously you gotta go with what people are gonna buy.
• 21:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 21:00
  Ryan: if,
• 21:00
  Glen Erickson: well,
• 21:01
  Ryan: booking, you know, people like rambling Jack, that's not gonna, bring in young kids.
• 21:07
  Ryan: It'd bring
• 21:07
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 21:08
  Ryan: but, you know.
• 21:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 21:10
  Glen Erickson: I mean, it was funny like here they were booking like old crow medicine show like, that felt like its own sub genre of the thing kind of thing that they do.
• 21:18
  Glen Erickson: And, I don't know.
• 21:19
  Glen Erickson: I had the wrong perception.
• 21:21
  Glen Erickson: They ended up on the main stage in the afternoon and had the entire hill here in Edmonton just bopping, and
• 21:27
  Ryan: Mm-hmm.
• 21:28
  Glen Erickson: I was wrong.
• 21:28
  Glen Erickson: I'm like, look at these guys still have such an incredible reach and impact, so that's pretty cool.
• 21:33
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 21:34
  Glen Erickson: when I spend a little time googling you, Ryan, I end up, I saw the same.
• 21:39
  Glen Erickson: Term a few times from early early press.
• 21:42
  Glen Erickson: calling you an old soul, which I think is kind of, in one hand someone could probably easily say that just based on your music without actually meeting you, which may be is a typical unfair thing that a person in the press might do.
• 21:55
  Glen Erickson: make a bunch of assumptions about who you are just because of the way you express yourself through your songwriting and your music.
• 22:02
  Glen Erickson: But I, I'm curious how you feel, especially in what you were just talking about.
• 22:05
  Glen Erickson: 'cause you said you just kind of threw in the phrase what the kids want or are listening.
• 22:11
  Glen Erickson: So, you know, 2005, you're sitting at a 20 year lifespan under the moniker of Deep dark Woods.
• 22:17
  Glen Erickson: Now, when you were young, like I used the expression, young kids wearing old clothes, like when you play traditional music is.
• 22:26
  Glen Erickson: Maybe a bit of a, not a spectacle, but it's a thing to sort of turn heads a little bit.
• 22:30
  Glen Erickson: Like that's a little bit different.
• 22:32
  Glen Erickson: Everyone needs a differentiator, but when you're not an old soul anymore,'cause now you're an older guy,
• 22:38
  Ryan: Yes.
• 22:39
  Glen Erickson: uh, uh what does that, does that feel like for you personally?
• 22:45
  Ryan: Um, it, well, it kind of just so fast, I'm sure, you know, you have children
• 22:53
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 22:53
  Ryan: fast it goes.
• 22:55
  Ryan: like I, I still feel like I am, like it's 2012.
• 23:01
  Ryan: it's, it's so So I haven't really thought about anything.
• 23:06
  Ryan: I just go about, I.
• 23:08
  Ryan: Writing and, and playing, and I don't really look back at anything.
• 23:14
  Glen Erickson: hmm.
• 23:14
  Ryan: Um, I find if I look back, you know, some things might be a little sad or something.
• 23:20
  Ryan: or, or, yeah, I just, I don't really think about anything like that.
• 23:25
  Glen Erickson: I think that sounds healthy.
• 23:26
  Ryan: yeah,
• 23:27
  Glen Erickson: very healthy approach.
• 23:28
  Ryan: I
• 23:29
  Glen Erickson: Absolutely.
• 23:30
  Ryan: move forward with the way I write songs and,
• 23:34
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 23:35
  Glen Erickson: Well, I think that's, think that's a great, like I said, I think that's fantastic.
• 23:39
  Glen Erickson: I think this, this way and I don't know how you've felt about how people try to hang, you know, genres and stuff like that on bands or on you personally, uh, and your background, like using terms, everything from like murder ballad or, or any of that sort of.
• 23:57
  Glen Erickson: Stuff like I, I think what I've always found interesting is how effortless it seemed for you to just sort of live, like, it's like you'd never felt like you've had to mess with the formula
• 24:08
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 24:08
  Glen Erickson: the way along.
• 24:09
  Glen Erickson: And I don't know if that like true you, for you or whether you've felt like you've ever had to wrestle with originality, are there, if that's another thing that you just never thought about.
• 24:19
  Ryan: no, I never thought about it.
• 24:20
  Ryan: I, I listen to music constantly.
• 24:23
  Ryan: That's all I do
• 24:24
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 24:25
  Ryan: music is always on.
• 24:27
  Ryan: I'm always trying to find stuff that will make me feel something, you know?
• 24:33
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 24:34
  Ryan: I'm all, every day I listen to music, every waking moment, there's always a record on in the house.
• 24:41
  Ryan: I'm obsessed with trying to find stuff that will give me some sort of spark to, to help me write, my own songs.
• 24:51
  Ryan: Uh,
• 24:52
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 24:52
  Ryan: so I like getting back to what you said about people, you know, kind of putting a label on, on you.
• 24:58
  Ryan: I find, I do find it kind of unfortunate, cause I, I think a lot of people are influenced by what the press will say,
• 25:08
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 25:08
  Ryan: what, what kind of music you are.
• 25:11
  Ryan: And I think that's kind of maybe had a, an effect on not getting to certain types of musical fans.
• 25:18
  Ryan: because you know, I, yes, there, the music that, that I play now is, has elements of, of my younger days.
• 25:28
  Ryan: but I've grown so much and learnt, different techniques of writing and, and lyricism I didn't have when I was years old.
• 25:42
  Ryan: and I, I think when, uh, somebody was writing about you, it, it can have an effect on, on who listens.
• 25:50
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 25:50
  Glen Erickson: 'cause they're struggling so hard to create some box of.
• 25:56
  Glen Erickson: to a crowd, but then by, unintended or intended consequences, they've now put you in a box that you didn't necessarily choose to be in.
• 26:06
  Glen Erickson: And you feel like, you would love to have a wider potential reach than, than the, than the people who are carrying that translation across for you every time.
• 26:16
  Glen Erickson: I mean, I, I know when I listened to your music, were talking about, you know, you have elements from before, like distinctly to me, like the first three records have, you know, a very similar feel and
• 26:29
  Ryan: Mm-hmm.
• 26:30
  Glen Erickson: the whole shape of it, I guess is what I would say.
• 26:33
  Glen Erickson: But then you have a song, up on the mountain.
• 26:35
  Glen Erickson: I, I always say it wrong, so I wanted to say it right, but on the Euro, Euro record, right, which is I think your fourth full length record and.
• 26:43
  Glen Erickson: And that's where I see a shift start.
• 26:45
  Glen Erickson: I'm curious if that is where you felt a shift start.
• 26:48
  Glen Erickson: Like that song to me feels like it's poached from a Lost Neil Young catalog so distinctly, and it feels like you sort of having an identity stepping even out further from the sound of the band on the first three.
• 27:01
  Glen Erickson: Was that, does that line up with what was happening for you personally and for the, for the band?
• 27:06
  Ryan: Yeah, definitely.
• 27:08
  Ryan: I, uh, that record that was after, it was basically a new band, um, on the Euro record.
• 27:15
  Ryan: Jeff.
• 27:16
  Ryan: Jeff came in after winter hours.
• 27:20
  Ryan: we met him
• 27:21
  Glen Erickson: by the way.
• 27:22
  Glen Erickson: I like the last show we ever played with you was at the Iron, Ironwood in Calgary.
• 27:27
  Ryan: right.
• 27:27
  Glen Erickson: Jeff had, that's the first we had seen Jeff play with you and it felt like you had gotten a ringer.
• 27:32
  Glen Erickson: You know what I mean?
• 27:33
  Glen Erickson: Like you just got Gretzky and Messi on the same team and it wasn't, wasn't fair to the rest of us or something.
• 27:39
  Glen Erickson: But I also remember that show because I think he was really good at haggling.
• 27:44
  Glen Erickson: 'cause the promoter was like, maybe not dipping you on some money or something.
• 27:48
  Glen Erickson: And I was like, and I was like, Hey, that guy's a rock star.
• 27:51
  Glen Erickson: He knows how to also haggle with, uh, and it's not the promoter, it's whoever he has doing the showrunner the, and the sad part of it is that the owner of the Ironwood, who's an absolute gem, uh, of a guy, but he usually had had too much to drink by the end of the night to step in and help out.
• 28:09
  Glen Erickson: But he was a beautiful man.
• 28:10
  Glen Erickson: So, yeah.
• 28:11
  Glen Erickson: So that was, but he's a ringer.
• 28:13
  Glen Erickson: So I cut you off there.
• 28:14
  Glen Erickson: Sorry.
• 28:14
  Glen Erickson: But, um, a, he's a great talent and he's still, he's still with you now.
• 28:19
  Glen Erickson: He.
• 28:19
  Ryan: still, still, been an up and down, adventure for the last 20 years.
• 28:25
  Ryan: Um, with, with,
• 28:26
  Glen Erickson: he located?
• 28:26
  Glen Erickson: Is it a geography thing too?
• 28:29
  Ryan: he's in Banff.
• 28:30
  Ryan: yeah, I think we put a place out behind, and then we did Jubilee with, Jonathan Wilson, producing.
• 28:37
  Ryan: And then at that point we'd been touring for just constantly touring.
• 28:42
  Ryan: We had no breaks at all, and we
• 28:45
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 28:45
  Ryan: kind of going crazy, and the band was just dying because of.
• 28:51
  Ryan: Of the,
• 28:52
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 28:52
  Ryan: and were playing 150 shows a year or something.
• 28:57
  Ryan: It was crazy.
• 28:58
  Ryan: Um,
• 28:59
  Glen Erickson: what contributed to the changeover?
• 29:01
  Ryan: yeah,
• 29:02
  Glen Erickson: there's a couple things that happen.
• 29:03
  Glen Erickson: There's that, there's the pressure of what the next level is.
• 29:07
  Glen Erickson: Sometimes you find that, you know, some guy has to figure out that his aspirations when he was 22 aren't the same when he is 27 or 29.
• 29:15
  Ryan: yeah, We'd, we'd added Clayton Linthicum from Casey and Clayton on electric guitar for, uh, the Jubilee album.
• 29:24
  Ryan: Burke had quit, shortly before that.
• 29:27
  Ryan: and then the touring, the constant touring in 20, I 20 13, 20 14.
• 29:32
  Ryan: During that record, just wore everybody out.
• 29:37
  Ryan: Um, Lucas, the drummer, just had enough and, and quit.
• 29:42
  Ryan: uh, I just wanted to keep going.
• 29:44
  Ryan: I couldn't, I couldn't stop.
• 29:46
  Ryan: I mean, I dedicated whatever, 10 years of my life at that point to, playing.
• 29:54
  Ryan: I never went to school, uh, college or anything.
• 29:58
  Ryan: I knew right from I was 16 that I wanted to play in a rock and roll band.
• 30:04
  Ryan: uh, so I didn't wanna stop.
• 30:06
  Ryan: and, uh, we, but we ended up on hiatus for, two years.
• 30:12
  Ryan: But during that point, I recorded the Arrow album, with, uh.
• 30:16
  Ryan: What is my new band now?
• 30:18
  Ryan: Well,
• 30:18
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 30:18
  Ryan: it anyway, and, uh, and then I just kept going.
• 30:22
  Ryan: And, yeah, 2017 that that was put out
• 30:26
  Glen Erickson: yeah,
• 30:27
  Ryan: it's just kind of been in an evolving band.
• 30:30
  Ryan: Uh, Jeff and I and Mike Silverman, I know probably you probably know Mike
• 30:36
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 30:36
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 30:37
  Ryan: has been, that's been the band, the core band for, yeah, almost 10 years now.
• 30:42
  Ryan: Almost as long band,
• 30:44
  Glen Erickson: So from that point, that's when we start seeing like only you on the record covers of your singles and, and different things.
• 30:51
  Glen Erickson: So is that, is that in part because not just'cause you're the original member or you just are like, I think maybe people don't always understand how these distinctions get made on the business side, right?
• 31:04
  Glen Erickson: Like, you can have a band agreement with your original guys, your actual contract, and if they leave then, you know, or people might be surprised sometimes that they think a band is a band, but actually only two members are, you know, the signed legal right holders of the quote unquote business entity that is a band.
• 31:23
  Glen Erickson: So, That transition, we start only seeing you on the covers of, of things and in interviews and stuff.
• 31:30
  Glen Erickson: So how has that transition, I guess, been, is it really just been on your shoulders and then you pull those guys together when it's time to record or?
• 31:39
  Ryan: I mean, I, I front all the money, I do all of that, so it's.
• 31:45
  Ryan: You know, it's my band, but, I consider Jeff and Mike parts of, of this band.
• 31:53
  Ryan: Um,
• 31:53
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 31:54
  Ryan: every now and again, I'll have to play a show without Jeff, uh, or Mike, and it feels weird,
• 32:01
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 32:01
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, Jeff is the longest
• 32:03
  Ryan: yeah.
• 32:04
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 32:04
  Glen Erickson: you've played with now, so I.
• 32:05
  Ryan: he is been in it since 2000 and, probably late, late 2008 I think, or 2009, early 2009.
• 32:14
  Ryan: it's been a long time with him.
• 32:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 32:17
  Ryan: I mean, also the geography of things.
• 32:20
  Ryan: Uh, being out in Ontario and Jeff and Mike being in Alberta.
• 32:27
  Ryan: Makes for a difficult, uh, we can't all get together and take photos.
• 32:32
  Ryan: So what, like we need, need the photo right
• 32:36
  Glen Erickson: See
• 32:37
  Ryan: we have to just do
• 32:39
  Glen Erickson: that's, uh, I love that you said that actually, because it's so funny to me that, you could make a whole bunch of assumptions just off of like, it's just you in the photo now, which means it's really anyhow, but it's really just a geographical that you have.
• 32:55
  Glen Erickson: I think that's great.
• 32:56
  Ryan: I've been trying to get pictures with, with the three of us and it's really almost impossible.
• 33:02
  Ryan: if we had, if I had more money, I'd fly them out to do it.
• 33:05
  Ryan: But
• 33:06
  Glen Erickson: It's like you need to buy this big backdrop and then take your picture, mail it to the next guy and he takes, and then get a, a graphic artist to stitch you together as if you're all on the same backdrop or something.
• 33:18
  Glen Erickson: So I, I really wanted,
• 33:20
  Ryan: we, are,
• 33:21
  Glen Erickson: go ahead.
• 33:21
  Ryan: on tour, in two weeks, so I'm hoping that we can snap a few pictures for that time.
• 33:29
  Glen Erickson: No note.
• 33:30
  Glen Erickson: Got a multitask.
• 33:31
  Glen Erickson: Get all the things in when you're together.
• 33:33
  Ryan: yeah.
• 33:33
  Glen Erickson: I did wanna ask you,'cause we were talking about the Euro album, the inspiration for the title and where it came from.
• 33:40
  Ryan: as you know, I love, uh, old folk lore and folk songs and there's always, you know, they always sing about the euro in, folk songs and traditional songs.
• 33:50
  Ryan: And day I was in Victoria and I saw the, uh, a building downtown that said Yarro on it, and I was like, oh, let's go ahead and use that.
• 34:00
  Glen Erickson: That's great.
• 34:01
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Glen Erickson: I was curious because, uh, I spent a year of my life in a town called Yarro, BC between Chillowak and Abbotsford, closer to Chillowak, just like a, a little off the highway, when you're on the highway between Chillowak and Abbotsford in the lower mainland of bc And I was like, I had never heard that name surface
• 34:22
  Ryan: Okay.
• 34:23
  Glen Erickson: much before.
• 34:25
  Ryan: It's a beautiful word.
• 34:26
  Ryan: I, I, I love pretty sounding words like that.
• 34:30
  Ryan: I'm always looking for when I'm writing that's, I'm looking for pretty sounding words, you know, to add into my songs.
• 34:38
  Glen Erickson: so about this stage, like you said you had moved out to Ontario to be with your now wife.
• 34:44
  Glen Erickson: You've been going super hard because of all the opportunities for the band, enough so that it's burning out some people, but just kinda driving you forward.
• 34:53
  Glen Erickson: you're in your thirties by this point,
• 34:55
  Ryan: Mm-hmm.
• 34:56
  Glen Erickson: And so, you know the personal side of your life, right, of trying to keep this career together, which I'm sure feels like it's on a shoestring so often at the time.
• 35:07
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 35:07
  Glen Erickson: but like you said, I just gotta keep moving.
• 35:09
  Glen Erickson: I just gotta keep moving'cause you don't wanna stop or you fear.
• 35:12
  Glen Erickson: Everything stops, right?
• 35:14
  Glen Erickson: But one of the biggest complicating factors to that I think for a lot of people is like their personal life.
• 35:19
  Glen Erickson: Like, do I fall in love?
• 35:21
  Glen Erickson: Can I fall in love?
• 35:22
  Glen Erickson: What if I meet a person who's not into this life or geographically somewhere else?
• 35:27
  Glen Erickson: So how did that happen for you meeting somebody and was that somebody you had already known and been or being with for a long time?
• 35:36
  Glen Erickson: Or how did that
• 35:37
  Ryan: I
• 35:37
  Glen Erickson: happen?
• 35:38
  Ryan: I knew her'cause she was a musician as well, Jenny Kel.
• 35:42
  Ryan: and so she played and that we were part of and, we got to know each other.
• 35:47
  Ryan: And, uh, she just understands the world of touring.
• 35:51
  Ryan: And,
• 35:52
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 35:52
  Ryan: um, I think it, it, I've been in other relationships while I was in the band earlier and we were on tour constantly.
• 36:01
  Ryan: Uh, and it just, it's hard to make it work.
• 36:04
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, it's a hard life.
• 36:06
  Ryan: But if, uh, I mean, she, she knows what touring is she's all for it.
• 36:11
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 36:12
  Glen Erickson: So you, you've made the move out.
• 36:14
  Ryan: you know, it
• 36:14
  Glen Erickson: It's very
• 36:15
  Ryan: uh, especially having child is, hard
• 36:19
  Glen Erickson: I was gonna ask that question.
• 36:21
  Glen Erickson: I mean, it's hard even when they understand that it's hard, right?
• 36:25
  Glen Erickson: That doesn't take away from how hard it can be.
• 36:27
  Glen Erickson: And then you've had children together.
• 36:29
  Glen Erickson: I was gonna ask about that.
• 36:31
  Glen Erickson: I, I've told this story on my podcast already'cause I had Grant Lawrence on early and one of the earliest funny things to me in my conversation with Grant,'cause I joined the band when I was 35 years old.
• 36:42
  Glen Erickson: And, always felt like things might have been different if we had just started five years earlier, but I was 35 and I had a kid already, and the second was on its way.
• 36:52
  Glen Erickson: and Grant always at that time, this is like, you know, 2007 era and he was always extremely curious about why I was doing that or if I thought how that he just, it seemed unheard of for him to start this trajectory so late.
• 37:08
  Glen Erickson: And so I've, I've lived through the challenges of what that looks like.
• 37:11
  Glen Erickson: So I'm, I'm curious, like, so you had kids, you went through a phase here of like a move and that relationship and keeping things going and having kids, and that probably slammed right into the pandemic, like one like constant
• 37:26
  Ryan: well, my
• 37:27
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 37:28
  Ryan: my, my kid's only two, so I had
• 37:31
  Glen Erickson: I thought you had it.
• 37:32
  Glen Erickson: I thought, sorry, I thought you had it sooner before
• 37:34
  Ryan: no, it,
• 37:35
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 37:35
  Ryan: we had the kid when we were in, uh.
• 37:39
  Ryan: Uh, Nova Scotia and,
• 37:41
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 37:42
  Ryan: and I was 40 at that point, so,
• 37:45
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 37:45
  Glen Erickson: That's a hell of a choice, man.
• 37:47
  Ryan: I know,
• 37:48
  Glen Erickson: Where,
• 37:48
  Ryan: I'm,
• 37:48
  Glen Erickson: do you have the energy to run a music career in a, in a 2-year-old,
• 37:53
  Ryan: It's
• 37:53
  Glen Erickson: in your forties?
• 37:54
  Ryan: It is completely insanity.
• 37:56
  Glen Erickson: said just the other day.
• 37:57
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 37:58
  Ryan: Well, now I understand why people had kid have kids at like 22
• 38:02
  Glen Erickson: when they're young.
• 38:03
  Glen Erickson: A
• 38:03
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 38:04
  Glen Erickson: I could never imagine it now.
• 38:06
  Ryan: it's insane.
• 38:08
  Ryan: I'm so tired all the time, constantly.
• 38:12
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I believe it.
• 38:13
  Glen Erickson: I mean, so Scotia.
• 38:16
  Glen Erickson: It's funny.
• 38:16
  Glen Erickson: So you, in a sense, you sort of prefaced it first in the way of like, we went there to ride out the pandemic probably with a support system of people Right.
• 38:24
  Glen Erickson: And,
• 38:24
  Ryan: Mm-hmm.
• 38:25
  Glen Erickson: and whatnot.
• 38:25
  Glen Erickson: So, so there were a couple things I was gonna also wanna ask you about really quick while we kind of move through your, through your timeline.
• 38:34
  Glen Erickson: I mean, one of them is, I.
• 38:35
  Glen Erickson: Sort of the, you, you, well you touched on already a bit, Ryan, about having, got lucky in different people that came in and the relationships you've had.
• 38:44
  Glen Erickson: I'm wondering about your experiences some, and we touched on this too a little bit with the band, but challenging ones, um, I'm curious like was one like, like Steve Dawson is a gem and what he was doing at the time, like I said, felt like very significant in the Canadiana music scene.
• 39:03
  Glen Erickson: he was finding and embracing and giving a platform'cause he was doing more than just producing.
• 39:08
  Glen Erickson: He put you on the label, he would do tons of promotion, they would have, they always seemed to have a showcase at all of the festivals and the Canadian Music Weeks and North by Northeast and things.
• 39:17
  Glen Erickson: So, that quick turnaround to then meeting the guys from Sugar Hill and, and six shooter who can obviously give you.
• 39:25
  Glen Erickson: A much bigger stage in access.
• 39:27
  Glen Erickson: is that an easy thing to navigate Steve?
• 39:31
  Glen Erickson: Is he really endorsing and supporting it, or is it challenging when a guy kind of invests in you, but then you have new opportunities show up
• 39:39
  Ryan: yeah, I mean, he, he was always super supportive and still is.
• 39:43
  Ryan: I talk to him every now and again.
• 39:45
  Ryan: there was no hard feelings at all.
• 39:47
  Ryan: He knew that we were, going up and needed, needed something more that
• 39:53
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 39:53
  Ryan: And sugar Hill was, was great.
• 39:57
  Ryan: We put out two records with them.
• 39:59
  Ryan: but I think the second one we put out with them was a little too weird for them.
• 40:03
  Ryan: And then they dropped us.
• 40:05
  Glen Erickson: Oh no.
• 40:06
  Glen Erickson: Which one?
• 40:06
  Glen Erickson: Which one was that?
• 40:07
  Ryan: it was Jubilee.
• 40:08
  Glen Erickson: Oh, okay.
• 40:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 40:10
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 40:10
  Ryan: And, and to be, to be honest, uh, like the Jubilee record, I think there's some really good stuff on there, but it is way too long.
• 40:17
  Ryan: um, Jonathan Wilson's an amazing producer.
• 40:21
  Ryan: one thing I could say is that I wish he would've just like reined it in a little and told us to shorten the songs, I guess.
• 40:29
  Ryan: But I mean, we were, at that point, we were doing a lot of Grateful Dead sort of, we were playing with the guys from the Grateful Dead and all that sort of
• 40:36
  Glen Erickson: Wow.
• 40:37
  Ryan: uh, it was, you
• 40:39
  Glen Erickson: That's funny.
• 40:39
  Ryan: were, we were trying to put it on the record, but I just don't think it works now.
• 40:44
  Ryan: Now.
• 40:45
  Ryan: And, and the thing is, there was five of us.
• 40:49
  Ryan: of us in there trying to get everything, all everybody say, all mashed together with,
• 40:55
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 40:55
  Ryan: producer.
• 40:56
  Ryan: And it just doesn't work.
• 40:57
  Ryan: You need one or two people, uh, to do it.
• 41:01
  Ryan: You can't, you can't have that many people.
• 41:03
  Glen Erickson: smaller committee for sure.
• 41:06
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 41:06
  Glen Erickson: the parallel I understand is actually guy from the same backyard.
• 41:10
  Glen Erickson: So I worked with, uh, Andy Schoff his very early days.
• 41:15
  Glen Erickson: I had heard him on, um, oh shoot.
• 41:17
  Glen Erickson: Why did the name, what was the website?
• 41:18
  Glen Erickson: Everybody got on with their music in like
• 41:20
  Ryan: MySpace.
• 41:21
  Glen Erickson: MySpace.
• 41:22
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 41:22
  Glen Erickson: I don't know the name.
• 41:22
  Glen Erickson: Just now I'm showing my age.
• 41:24
  Glen Erickson: Um, so I found Andy on that, on MySpace.
• 41:28
  Glen Erickson: And then, I had formed an indie label and actually had put out his first, darker days record on it.
• 41:34
  Glen Erickson: And of course, he was on this snowball trajectory that was taking off and starting to get noticed.
• 41:39
  Glen Erickson: And then he had an opportunities.
• 41:41
  Glen Erickson: with the label in the States that was connected to Hopeless, uh, a punk label.
• 41:46
  Glen Erickson: So all that re so I helped navigate that too for him.
• 41:50
  Glen Erickson: And, and same thing was for him in a transition of, you know, he needed those bigger opportunities'cause it was just happening so fast and I wasn't ever gonna be able to keep up.
• 41:59
  Glen Erickson: But, uh, he was also in the same space at the time, which is interesting, which is like, he, he was at that moment, I remember we were negotiating that deal, wanted to put out like a double, double record.
• 42:09
  Glen Erickson: He was writing prolifically.
• 42:11
  Glen Erickson: He had so many songs, he wanted to just put them all out.
• 42:14
  Glen Erickson: And, people like me were saying your songs aren't equal.
• 42:19
  Glen Erickson: There's a reason people choose some of them.
• 42:20
  Glen Erickson: But
• 42:21
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 42:21
  Glen Erickson: yeah, it's, it's hard when you have a lot of different voices telling you different things and things are happening fast.
• 42:27
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 42:27
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 42:28
  Ryan: And when you're 25 years old, you know, it's, it's different than, know, a 25-year-old in the 1960s, you know, your thirties is equivalent to being in your twenties.
• 42:39
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I get you.
• 42:40
  Ryan: so I, I'm, I've a much better producer now.
• 42:45
  Ryan: I, I know what I want.
• 42:47
  Ryan: I'm not afraid to, to say it.
• 42:50
  Ryan: you know, now I, I take, I, I want the record to be a half an hour to, to 40 minutes tops.
• 42:56
  Ryan: I think that's what most people want to listen to.
• 42:59
  Ryan: They get tired of 75 minute records,
• 43:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 43:03
  Ryan: like the, the early two thousands and the nineties when the CD came in.
• 43:07
  Ryan: and people just put out these massively long albums.
• 43:11
  Ryan: They would,
• 43:11
  Glen Erickson: Just'cause they could just'cause the format afforded it.
• 43:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 43:14
  Ryan: You could make it 80 minutes if you wanted.
• 43:17
  Ryan: And it just,
• 43:18
  Glen Erickson: well, and now we, now we don't really have a format trying to dictate it for us anymore.
• 43:23
  Glen Erickson: And now you see people just pushing singles all the time and, and the long, the long form is, yeah.
• 43:29
  Glen Erickson: Um, well that kind of pushes us up talking about what you're doing right now and writing right now and this new single Ruby that you have out.
• 43:37
  Glen Erickson: Which, I guess the first thing I'd ask is this, uh, cause I didn't see it in your pressors, is, is Ruby part of a record?
• 43:45
  Glen Erickson: is this the tease to, uh, the new record kind of idea?
• 43:48
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 43:49
  Ryan: uh, we went out to BC in, uh, July, I believe, and made a record out there.
• 43:56
  Ryan: Uh, it was me, Jeff, Mike and Evan Cheadle, who, who's played on the last couple records, Evan's.
• 44:03
  Ryan: One, one of the greatest guitar players I I've ever met.
• 44:07
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 44:07
  Ryan: guitar players that, I feel can play what I want.
• 44:11
  Ryan: And that's Evan and Clayton.
• 44:14
  Glen Erickson: That's, uh,
• 44:15
  Ryan: yeah,
• 44:15
  Glen Erickson: important characteristic.
• 44:17
  Ryan: it is, it is.
• 44:18
  Ryan: And if, if I can't have those guys, then I just, I don't have a, a guitar player.
• 44:23
  Ryan: I just do it by myself.
• 44:25
  Ryan: I don't know who else can play like that.
• 44:27
  Ryan: He's got, they
• 44:28
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 44:29
  Ryan: a tone that's, uh, that's like a mixture of Robbie Robertson and, and, uh, Richard Thompson.
• 44:36
  Ryan: British, very British sounding, but also that nice Canadian American.
• 44:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 44:42
  Glen Erickson: Tone is everything Almost before.
• 44:44
  Ryan: yeah.
• 44:44
  Ryan: it
• 44:44
  Glen Erickson: Before chops, right?
• 44:46
  Ryan: And, and when I first got Evan into the band, which was 2017, he'd never played, a electric guitar in the band.
• 44:54
  Ryan: But I'd,
• 44:55
  Glen Erickson: Wow.
• 44:56
  Ryan: I'd, heard him playing at a, a tiny little club in Victoria.
• 45:01
  Ryan: And I, I knew he was amazing.
• 45:03
  Ryan: I could just, I could see it,
• 45:05
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 45:05
  Glen Erickson: this song, Ruby, which I think by the way, is so good, man.
• 45:09
  Glen Erickson: Like, there's, uh, there's something about this song, the first half a line when you come out.
• 45:16
  Glen Erickson: there's this like pillowy soft, lilting, higher end of your register.
• 45:21
  Glen Erickson: Which is a particular tone, I think for a baritone singer.
• 45:24
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 45:25
  Glen Erickson: And maybe the reason it grabbed me is like, I've like been, I've followed a couple people in Canada really close that I feel you are in the same pocket with in your voice.
• 45:34
  Glen Erickson: Like Dan Mangan and, and Hayden who both started with, they start in a different way.
• 45:39
  Glen Erickson: They started with really leaning into a heavy baritone version, uh, of their music you know, acoustic based music still, um, versus the traditional side.
• 45:51
  Glen Erickson: And they've had to change that over the years.
• 45:53
  Glen Erickson: I, I think probably mostly'cause it wasn't sustainable, what they were doing to their voice.
• 45:58
  Glen Erickson: and they've leaned into this sort of higher part.
• 46:00
  Glen Erickson: But I feel like it has a very distinct tone when it comes from a baritone voice.
• 46:04
  Glen Erickson: And then I, if I hadn't known any better that first half a line, I could have either of those.
• 46:11
  Glen Erickson: Guys, it seems like such a perfect delivery.
• 46:15
  Glen Erickson: Is this a, I guess I'm always curious right off the bat, is this a conscious choice?
• 46:19
  Glen Erickson: Are you trying to sing a bit of a different delivery?
• 46:23
  Glen Erickson: Are you exploring a different space vocally for yourself?
• 46:26
  Glen Erickson: Does it have, does that have anything to do with age and experience and time on the road and what that does for your voice?
• 46:33
  Ryan: def definitely a, a lot of different things.
• 46:36
  Ryan: Um.
• 46:38
  Ryan: Uh, when I was on the road constantly before Covid, voice was, you know, you're using it all the time, constantly touring.
• 46:47
  Ryan: Um, and so my voice got was quite low and it was hard to hit the higher notes'cause it was, I think, worn out.
• 46:54
  Ryan: Uh, I never do any sort of warmups.
• 46:57
  Ryan: I probably should, but, think the older I'm getting, for some reason, my voice is becoming, uh, higher.
• 47:05
  Ryan: But, uh, yeah, I, and, and I, it feels really good.
• 47:09
  Ryan: I, I, I remember when I first started, I would sing in a high hierarchy and then I, a girlfriend of mine told me I was singing too high and then it kind I.
• 47:20
  Ryan: It made me think, this was when I was young and it made me think, okay, I'm singing too high.
• 47:26
  Ryan: And, and then I started singing lower and uh, it was just in the last couple years where I'm like, man, it feels really good to sing very high like this.
• 47:36
  Ryan: So,
• 47:37
  Glen Erickson: funny what the influence others will say is like, I remember hearing Bon of Air had his bands for years and he sang at a lower regular and then he showed up singing some classic song in that falsetto and all of his buddies were like.
• 47:52
  Glen Erickson: should keep singing like that and now he trademarked it essentially.
• 47:55
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 47:56
  Glen Erickson: That
• 47:56
  Ryan: right.
• 47:57
  Glen Erickson: tone.
• 47:58
  Glen Erickson: But, tell me a bit about the song.
• 48:00
  Glen Erickson: I guess the first thing I have to say, and I started saying this before I just was specific about your, your vocal tone was it definitely does feel to me like the most realized like mature version of Ryan Boldt that I've heard.
• 48:13
  Glen Erickson: Like if anything feels like this is exactly a guy in his skin, it feels like that for sure.
• 48:19
  Glen Erickson: But I read your specific, just quick little presser about the subject matter, what you were going through when you wrote this song, balancing loss of someone that you loved that was close to you, who had died with expectation of a child coming, which is most incredible, you know, unrelatable to anything else.
• 48:38
  Glen Erickson: Experience of excitement.
• 48:41
  Glen Erickson: You know, let me put it this way, um.
• 48:43
  Glen Erickson: I find one of the most interesting human characteristics is cognitive dissonance about keeping two seemingly opposing ideas, and yet we can carry them with us, right?
• 48:52
  Glen Erickson: Like, and in, in this instance, like, how do we laugh?
• 48:56
  Glen Erickson: Or is it, how do we feel about making a joke when we're surrounded by a world that seems like it's falling apart?
• 49:02
  Glen Erickson: Or, you know, this tragedy has happened and extreme joy has happened and most people don't process it, I guess is where I'm getting to, but songwriters process it.
• 49:12
  Glen Erickson: And it seems like you tried to process it in this song.
• 49:16
  Glen Erickson: I'm just really curious what that experience was like for you trying to bring that out of yourself and put it into a song like that.
• 49:23
  Ryan: well, I think when I write songs I just, I don't ever write songs when I don't feel like I'm, like, when I don't have that feeling inside of me.
• 49:34
  Ryan: and I think that, that happening with Kiko dying, he was my tour manager over in the UK for 10 years.
• 49:43
  Ryan: we were very good friends.
• 49:45
  Ryan: you know, I'd go visit him.
• 49:46
  Ryan: I.
• 49:46
  Ryan: when we were, when I wasn't on the road, and, uh, he was, he was coming to visit my when she was born.
• 49:53
  Ryan: Um, him and his dad were gonna, they, they had the trip planned.
• 49:57
  Ryan: It was gonna be his dad's, he dad's old now.
• 50:00
  Ryan: Uh, it was gonna be his dad's last trip abroad.
• 50:03
  Ryan: And so they planned all this out and then just died in his sleep.
• 50:07
  Ryan: he had a hernia
• 50:09
  Glen Erickson: Wow.
• 50:09
  Ryan: he got on operation and, didn't wake up the next day.
• 50:14
  Ryan: And, I was out at a cabin with my wife.
• 50:17
  Ryan: It was like one month before our daughter was born.
• 50:20
  Ryan: And so, yeah, it was quite, quite a thing to, to go through.
• 50:25
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 50:25
  Ryan: really get to process the death when you're, really took me quite some time to, I mean, not to, to actually process his death.
• 50:34
  Ryan: Uh, it was, you know, finally a after a year, that's kinda when I was able to settle down from having a child and, and really understand what had happened that I'd never
• 50:46
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 50:47
  Ryan: And, you know, I had all my gear, we had gear together his house.
• 50:51
  Ryan: And,
• 50:51
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 50:52
  Ryan: so, yeah, it was a crazy, crazy time.
• 50:55
  Ryan: And, I went on tour and he wasn't there.
• 50:58
  Ryan: he was always there with me on tour, uh, whether it was solo or with the band.
• 51:03
  Ryan: He was the driver.
• 51:04
  Ryan: and then I.
• 51:05
  Ryan: I went on a solo tour and I had to go to his house and pick up my stuff, and I, it was crazy, you know, just
• 51:12
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 51:12
  Ryan: seeing his shoes sitting there, and his com, his laptop that he'd
• 51:17
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 51:17
  Ryan: always
• 51:17
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 51:18
  Ryan: the road.
• 51:18
  Ryan: so I mean that really, but I wrote it between the, two things happening.
• 51:24
  Ryan: So, I didn't actually process what, uh, had happened till a year later, but I think the writing of the song maybe helped a little bit with that.
• 51:33
  Ryan: But, I don't really think about writing.
• 51:36
  Ryan: It's, it's just a thing that happens.
• 51:38
  Ryan: I'll sit down with if I, if I have this, kind of, I don't know.
• 51:42
  Ryan: It's a weird feeling, I guess some songwriters have where you just.
• 51:46
  Ryan: you
• 51:46
  Glen Erickson: sure.
• 51:47
  Glen Erickson: You have to get it out.
• 51:48
  Ryan: it.
• 51:48
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 51:49
  Ryan: You can feel there's something bubbling a little bit you have to down and you, you have to do it quickly or else that, that feeling can leave quickly as it came.
• 52:02
  Glen Erickson: And it's such a scary feeling to feel like it might be gone, so you have to catch it.
• 52:08
  Ryan: Yeah, I know, I
• 52:09
  Glen Erickson: it definitely felt, it definitely felt like,'cause a lot of your songs, they feel very attached to because you've done these, these ballad volumes and some of a lot of public domain songs that feel very in the pocket with a good part of your catalog with the deep, dark woods, uh, where you're doing very traditional folk storytelling, I feel, which becomes a little more distinct when the more personal version of you comes into a song.
• 52:34
  Glen Erickson: And this feels, ruby feels very personal compared to a lot of your catalog.
• 52:39
  Glen Erickson: Is that an accurate,
• 52:40
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 52:40
  Glen Erickson: interpretation of it?
• 52:42
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 52:42
  Ryan: I think, my earlier songs, a lot of'em were story story songs,
• 52:48
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 52:49
  Ryan: of telling a story of somebody else.
• 52:51
  Ryan: around the last record changing Faces,
• 52:55
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 52:55
  Glen Erickson: Is that what we can expect on the rest of the, the rest of the record?
• 52:59
  Glen Erickson: Is it Definitely follow with this one?
• 53:01
  Ryan: I, think so.
• 53:02
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 53:03
  Ryan: It's a, it's a mixture of things.
• 53:05
  Ryan: It's,
• 53:06
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 53:06
  Ryan: yeah.
• 53:07
  Ryan: Um,
• 53:07
  Glen Erickson: So I don't have a date.
• 53:09
  Glen Erickson: Do you have a date?
• 53:10
  Glen Erickson: When is the full album coming out and being released?
• 53:14
  Ryan: in the fall or I don't, I'm not sure the Yeah.
• 53:17
  Glen Erickson: And you have, like you said, you're heading out in the road in a couple of weeks only and you got like a series of shows I saw and then you are hopping the pond and you're doing some UK shows attached to some festivals that are kind of happen around this time normally.
• 53:33
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 53:34
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 53:34
  Ryan: I went last year to the uk and yeah, I, I just, I love playing over there.
• 53:40
  Ryan: The crowds are, there's just a folk music scene
• 53:43
  Glen Erickson: yeah,
• 53:44
  Ryan: more,
• 53:44
  Glen Erickson: sure.
• 53:45
  Ryan: is here, so it's really nice.
• 53:48
  Glen Erickson: well, Ryan, uh, most of all, I just want you to know.
• 53:52
  Glen Erickson: I think it's like 20 years and you're still going, despite being exhausted with a 2-year-old in your forties.
• 53:58
  Glen Erickson: Um, of that is amazing.
• 54:01
  Glen Erickson: Uh, I have so much respect for the people who have kept it going and able to hear from you personally, how, you know, you just expressed it, you couldn't help it.
• 54:11
  Glen Erickson: I think that I just have this drive to keep going.
• 54:14
  Glen Erickson: You've always had this drive, this is what you knew from 16.
• 54:17
  Glen Erickson: yeah, like we all know how challenging it is to feel, like how easy the ball can stop rolling
• 54:24
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 54:25
  Glen Erickson: in this business, but that you keep, keep pushing it and kicking it along I think is fantastic.
• 54:30
  Ryan: Yeah.
• 54:31
  Ryan: I, I
• 54:31
  Glen Erickson: from.
• 54:32
  Ryan: I, I'm a little too old to stop now.
• 54:35
  Ryan: I, I, I did 20 years of this and, uh, I got nothing else to do, so I don't
• 54:43
  Glen Erickson: yeah, well you don't have to ask that question, but is like, you do it very well.
• 54:46
  Glen Erickson: I think, uh, I'm excited about the new record because like I said, I'm extremely charmed by your new song, Ruby.
• 54:53
  Glen Erickson: I love it.
• 54:53
  Glen Erickson: I'm really glad to hear it I wish you all the best with it and I appreciate your time me.
• 54:59
  Glen Erickson: I did forget I was gonna ask you a question at the start, and I forget I have to ask it before I, before I say bye.
• 55:04
  Glen Erickson: But your last name is Boldt.
• 55:06
  Glen Erickson: You're from Saskatoon.
• 55:07
  Glen Erickson: I knew a whole bunch of Boldts that were attached to the big mega church back then.
• 55:12
  Glen Erickson: Did you have any relation to all the other Boldts in Saskatoon?
• 55:16
  Ryan: there's, uh, Which church?
• 55:19
  Ryan: Which church?
• 55:20
  Glen Erickson: Curtis Boldt at the big Alliance Church.
• 55:23
  Ryan: Curtis.
• 55:23
  Ryan: Boldt's.
• 55:24
  Ryan: My cousin.
• 55:24
  Ryan: Yes.
• 55:25
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 55:25
  Glen Erickson: He's married to Kim
• 55:27
  Ryan: Yeah,
• 55:27
  Glen Erickson: and when I was at teenager I went to church and did Bible quizzing.
• 55:32
  Ryan: Uhhuh.
• 55:33
  Glen Erickson: and they were the cool kids in the provincial things we'd go to.
• 55:37
  Glen Erickson: So I would always hang out with them.
• 55:39
  Glen Erickson: and they're now here in Edmonton, actually.
• 55:41
  Glen Erickson: She has her own dental office and stuff.
• 55:44
  Glen Erickson: Um, had to ask because it's a small world and Boldt seems like such a Saskatoon name in my history, so
• 55:51
  Ryan: a me, it's a Mennonite name.
• 55:52
  Ryan: We're,
• 55:53
  Glen Erickson: is.
• 55:54
  Ryan: yeah.
• 55:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 55:56
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 55:56
  Glen Erickson: Oh, that's awesome.
• 55:57
  Glen Erickson: I love connections like that.
• 55:59
  Glen Erickson: Well, I, I really appreciate this.
• 56:01
  Glen Erickson: Like I said, Ryan, you're taking the time to just talk about your history and your story and the things that you've experienced and learned, think benefit everybody.
• 56:09
  Glen Erickson: And, I really wish you the best with the new album and the tour, and especially with the family.
• 56:13
  Ryan: Thank you so much.
• 56:14
  Ryan: Appreciate
• 56:15
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, you bet.
• 56:16
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 56:16
  Glen Erickson: Thanks a lot, Ryan.
• 56:17
  Glen Erickson: Appreciate man.
• 56:18
  Glen Erickson: Okay, you take care.
• 56:19
  Ryan: Yep.
• 56:19
  Ryan: See ya.
• 56:20
  Glen Erickson: Bye-Bye.
• 56:28
  Glen Erickson: Was that B roll gold?
• 56:29
  Glen Erickson: Did I miss some B roll Gold by not be recording yet.
• 56:32
  alexi: no.
• 56:32
  alexi: I'm actually very thankful that you did not hit record.
• 56:34
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 56:35
  Glen Erickson: And not to share that screen grab that we laughed about ever.
• 56:39
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 56:39
  alexi: Nope.
• 56:40
  Glen Erickson: Um, So, let's have a quick chat'cause I know uh, this isn't a normal time for us to record and this, is in the middle of exam season that you're trying to get through and under the crunch and you have work shifts and all of these things.
• 56:54
  Glen Erickson: So we're adjusting, calling it audible, going on the fly here, but.
• 56:58
  Glen Erickson: Wanted to get the conversation in around episode 13, uh, with Ryan Boldt of the deep dark woods.
• 57:04
  Glen Erickson: who, well, I guess I was telling you already this morning, my funniest, just the, the exchange at the very end of the conversation where I remembered to ask him about whether he's related.
• 57:13
  Glen Erickson: To other people that I knew with the Boldt last name and just that actually really weird connection.
• 57:19
  Glen Erickson: anyhow, but that kind of stuff's always funny about how
• 57:22
  alexi: Small world.
• 57:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 57:23
  Glen Erickson: Small world stuff, right?
• 57:24
  Glen Erickson: So that's kind of fun.
• 57:26
  Glen Erickson: so we had wanted to talk and I wanted to ask you a question specific to, A couple of things that came up in the podcast.
• 57:33
  Glen Erickson: So, and I had a conversation already sort of related with, uh, somebody else about this.
• 57:38
  Glen Erickson: cause it stays top of mind ever since I had this conversation with Ryan, which was, there was two parts to it.
• 57:44
  Glen Erickson: I mean, there's the first version of people's opinion and the effect it has on you and the effect it has on other people.
• 57:50
  Glen Erickson: So he had brought up, you know, I had asked him about being.
• 57:53
  Glen Erickson: sort of boxed into certain genres because in the concept of quote unquote, playing very traditional music, and people use that term, and I think they used that term because they didn't know which direction to go.
• 58:04
  Glen Erickson: Was it, was it folk?
• 58:05
  Glen Erickson: Was it new folk or old folk?
• 58:07
  Glen Erickson: Or it had a little country, or a little blues or a little bluegrass, or a little Celtic even, or whatever it had at times, all the veins, people wouldn't know what to do with it.
• 58:17
  Glen Erickson: But then he was experiencing.
• 58:19
  Glen Erickson: You know, if a radio DJ or somebody would kind of, whatever they chose, whatever word they chose to use to share about the music and how they understood his music, it creates a, it created a box and now he's in that box.
• 58:36
  Glen Erickson: And I guess what he expressed was I, he experienced, you know, was I getting limited in my audience?
• 58:42
  Glen Erickson: Because of somebody's words.
• 58:44
  Glen Erickson: And then I just kind of thought bigger about that of like, you know how sharing your opinion on something is like a portal that you're passing information to everyone else in your world too, but you're potentially doing it through a very small box or door or a very wide one for people.
• 59:01
  Glen Erickson: So that was kind of the one half of that.
• 59:02
  Glen Erickson: Oops, I smacked.
• 59:03
  Glen Erickson: there was one half of that and.
• 59:05
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 59:05
  Glen Erickson: The other half was, just kind of talking about his voice at the end, where he was talking about I, because I asked him'cause of the way it sounded on his new single and relatives to some other singers who have kind of had to change their voice as they get a little bit older.
• 59:19
  Glen Erickson: And he made a comment about how when he was young, he had a, a, a, a previous girlfriend who, told him not to sing like that.
• 59:26
  Glen Erickson: Not to sing hi.
• 59:27
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 59:27
  Glen Erickson: And so.
• 59:28
  Glen Erickson: he didn't, right, and then he kind of leaned into that deeper baritone of his, and now he's kind of finding he really likes it.
• 59:35
  Glen Erickson: but I, I just found it so interesting how that one opinion, especially when you're younger, can shape you.
• 59:41
  Glen Erickson: And again, this whole idea of.
• 59:44
  Glen Erickson: one, someone speaking one thing into your life can like put you through a door, a brand new door that you wouldn't have gone through unless they said something from, and it's just their observation or perspective.
• 59:56
  alexi: Sure.
• 59:56
  Glen Erickson: And I was just kind of wondering,'cause I know being farther down the line in years, I've got examples and stories, but you're kind of early in this.
• 1:00:05
  Glen Erickson: So all my stories are about.
• 1:00:06
  Glen Erickson: Happening things that happened when I was literally the age you are.
• 1:00:10
  Glen Erickson: So I'm wondering if you've experienced things already, you think in your, like in your life of you know, somebody and it might've just been a random comment or a thing that they just said and then you were like it.
• 1:00:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Glen Erickson: Does that make sense?
• 1:00:24
  alexi: Yeah, I think, think, yeah, I think there's more like small, repetitive comments.
• 1:00:31
  alexi: I.
• 1:00:32
  alexi: like, I couldn't recall, you know, like time and place, like, you know, things are like just said enough to you, like, or casually just dropped that like you start to kind of believe them and there are like big comments.
• 1:00:42
  alexi: I think I'm also like very sensitive, so, and like that's something I own for sure.
• 1:00:47
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, it's good to own that.
• 1:00:48
  Glen Erickson: I think.
• 1:00:49
  alexi: but like, I think one of like the possible kinda like downsides of being so sensitive.
• 1:00:54
  alexi: cause there are definitely a few.
• 1:00:55
  alexi: Is that like I have to work really hard for like, any kind of a comment, not to be like taken very personally.
• 1:01:02
  alexi: I don't know.
• 1:01:02
  alexi: But I mean, it's interesting because even like in in words that you would find like would supposedly have like a positive connotation, like when I was in grade.
• 1:01:11
  alexi: Six.
• 1:01:12
  alexi: I got put in like that, advanced math, like I got taken out of whatever French class got put in advanced math.
• 1:01:17
  alexi: And like, I remember, my teacher that year was just like, well, you're obviously like a very like gifted girl.
• 1:01:22
  alexi: Like you're very, like, you're a very smart girl.
• 1:01:24
  alexi: You're very like, ahead of the curve.
• 1:01:25
  alexi: Like I'm putting you in the advanced reading group, the advanced math group, like, it feels great.
• 1:01:30
  alexi: But then I found like as soon as I entered junior high, like.
• 1:01:33
  alexi: Like, so much of like my identity that I started to shape to be around the fact that like, I was smart.
• 1:01:38
  alexi: Like I was told I was smart,
• 1:01:40
  Glen Erickson: Well, that's exactly what I'm saying.
• 1:01:42
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:01:42
  Glen Erickson: You started that one word.
• 1:01:44
  Glen Erickson: You've took an identity out of it.
• 1:01:46
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:01:46
  alexi: a hundred percent.
• 1:01:47
  alexi: And, it was really hard for me when like, especially like the word like gifted and like advanced, like all of those kind of small comments.
• 1:01:57
  alexi: It was fine in junior high because I was like, I was put in all the advanced groups and I like worked really hard and I got like the highest grades.
• 1:02:06
  alexi: And then as soon as I started high school, like I remember I got my first like 60 and like had a panic attack.
• 1:02:12
  alexi: Like it was like earth shattering and
• 1:02:15
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:02:16
  alexi: Shouldn't be like, it doesn't matter.
• 1:02:18
  alexi: But it was not that like I got a bad grade.
• 1:02:21
  alexi: It was that, like, that grade I felt like was like impending on my identity.
• 1:02:26
  Glen Erickson: It's like, who am I all of a sudden because of that?
• 1:02:29
  Glen Erickson: But that's,
• 1:02:30
  alexi: that's
• 1:02:31
  Glen Erickson: the power of this that I'm talking about, right?
• 1:02:33
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:02:34
  Glen Erickson: So someone says a thing and then, you know, and especially when you're young, you don't have this critical thinking or self-examination process, uh, built yet, and you just, and it just sends you through that door.
• 1:02:47
  Glen Erickson: And even sometimes.
• 1:02:48
  Glen Erickson: Forms your identity.
• 1:02:49
  Glen Erickson: Like I remember, I don't know how or when I, I seem to remember getting the message when I was like very small that I had pneumonia when I was really little.
• 1:02:59
  Glen Erickson: I think I can't confirm or deny'cause it was probably beyond my memory right now.
• 1:03:03
  Glen Erickson: But I do remember.
• 1:03:05
  Glen Erickson: Somehow being told that I had small lung capacity ever since, like that's why it was hard for me to breathe underwater at swimming lessons or, but these weren't things I came up with.
• 1:03:14
  Glen Erickson: When I think back now, like these are things that are told to me, but then I've walked through 50 years of my life thinking I have small lung capacity and I don't actually know if it's true or not.
• 1:03:22
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:03:23
  Glen Erickson: Like,
• 1:03:23
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:03:23
  Glen Erickson: if someone tells you a thing or When I was in my first year of college, I mean, up to that point, I was clueless.
• 1:03:29
  Glen Erickson: My mom.
• 1:03:29
  Glen Erickson: Was buying me all my clothes, right?
• 1:03:31
  Glen Erickson: Like I was not involved in that process at all.
• 1:03:34
  Glen Erickson: And then I don't know what jeans I was wearing, I don't know what brand I was wearing.
• 1:03:38
  Glen Erickson: And I, it didn't seem to affect my confidence'cause I was like first year college, I was flirting with girls like crazy.
• 1:03:44
  Glen Erickson: And I remember sitting on a couch with a couple of girls I'd gotten to know that year in first year, and they were like.
• 1:03:51
  Glen Erickson: They said to me specifically like, you know, you'd look really good if you'd wear like Levi's five oh ones.
• 1:03:56
  Glen Erickson: This was like the beginning of the nineties.
• 1:03:58
  Glen Erickson: So Levi's five oh ones were like the gene to wear.
• 1:04:01
  Glen Erickson: And I was like, all I heard was like, girls say you would look really good if, and I went right down to the discount Army Navy and got a pair of Le Levi five oh ones and never looked back.
• 1:04:14
  Glen Erickson: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:04:14
  Glen Erickson: And like one little word can shape.
• 1:04:17
  Glen Erickson: I think it's also relative to what you were saying about it becoming your identity and then like you're like, I'm the smart girl, and then all of a sudden you get into a bigger pool and you're not the smart girl maybe anymore the same way, and I.
• 1:04:30
  alexi: like And also just not being like the smartest, like, yeah.
• 1:04:35
  alexi: And then you're
• 1:04:35
  Glen Erickson: yeah,
• 1:04:36
  alexi: like what's true now?
• 1:04:37
  alexi: Like.
• 1:04:38
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 1:04:38
  Glen Erickson: But don't you think, like, I hear this in the music business all the time too, of, you know, someone starts playing and, and they're playing music and then they're wanting to like go to that next level and that next level is the first level out of their room where all of their family and parents were like, you sound.
• 1:04:55
  Glen Erickson: Beautiful.
• 1:04:56
  Glen Erickson: You have the most beautiful voice.
• 1:04:58
  Glen Erickson: And they take, they go right from that to applying for American Idol, right?
• 1:05:02
  Glen Erickson: And then they go in front of a judge and then they're like, you need to work on this.
• 1:05:05
  Glen Erickson: It's, you know, it's not, it's not that, but it, so I think, yeah.
• 1:05:10
  Glen Erickson: I just wondered whether you had, I guess, similar examples.
• 1:05:14
  Glen Erickson: 'cause.
• 1:05:14
  Glen Erickson: cause you're right, like someone says a thing or you always think a thing, but then there's the other part of, I guess I'm wondering, you can think about if this, if you have an example in your life of, there's also a case where somebody just says something and you realize you've never been thinking about it that way about yourself.
• 1:05:30
  Glen Erickson: You wouldn't see yourself unless somebody said that thing that way.
• 1:05:35
  alexi: Yeah, I think, yes.
• 1:05:37
  alexi: I think in like both kind of positive and negative lights, I think especially like, well say first of all like for like a, like a positive light.
• 1:05:44
  alexi: There definitely has been a couple times where, and it's like kind of usually flattery or like comes out in like a compliment.
• 1:05:51
  alexi: but where people have said things.
• 1:05:53
  alexi: I'm just like, oh, like, you know, something that was just part of like my habit or like what I thought of like my personality.
• 1:05:58
  alexi: And then they like coin it a different term.
• 1:06:01
  alexi: and then, yeah, like I think like at work, I remember when I was hosting, like this is like two years back, um, a new server had been hired and she was a little bit like older than like the average age group at my work.
• 1:06:11
  alexi: And, just like her first shift, like I was like.
• 1:06:14
  alexi: Helping, like bust all her tables, like just doing everything I could so she like, could have like a little bit of an easier shift.
• 1:06:20
  alexi: and then I always at work like just try to build relationships with everyone, like get people drinks, like ask how they're doing.
• 1:06:25
  alexi: Like I just, I just try to be like as helpful while I'm there as possible.
• 1:06:29
  alexi: Like,'cause what I'm getting paid for.
• 1:06:30
  alexi: and had come to me a couple weeks later and she was like, you are like, so In tune with like asking people about like their personal lives and, and she just went on to say like, how I always like remember what people say and like follow up with them about it and like make them feel like what they're just like saying is actually heard.
• 1:06:50
  alexi: And
• 1:06:50
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:50
  alexi: was like she was saying it like, it was this like big thing how it was like this like amazing kind of like trade I have.
• 1:06:56
  alexi: And I was just like, oh, I just like, just Snoopy and I like love.
• 1:07:01
  alexi: people feel like that.
• 1:07:01
  alexi: You know what I mean?
• 1:07:02
  Glen Erickson: You downplayed it.
• 1:07:04
  alexi: well, just like, oh, I never thought about that.
• 1:07:06
  alexi: But it's like that, that kind of thing.
• 1:07:08
  alexi: It's like really sweet and it makes you feel really good.
• 1:07:10
  alexi: Like it makes you feel really lovely.
• 1:07:12
  alexi: I think it can also be, a negative thing, I think, especially for women.
• 1:07:17
  alexi: I remember in junior high, like I can like.
• 1:07:19
  alexi: Vividly quote, things that junior high boys told me about my personality or my appearance that like, really, like they stick with you until you're mature enough to go through the process of unsticking, those kind of things.
• 1:07:34
  alexi: And I, like, I know my friends, like, I could literally pick out that like my friends had said as well.
• 1:07:39
  alexi: Um, but like, were like exact comments from, from guys and I think that's where it can be like a negative thing, of like, I'm just, you know, when you're younger you don't really think about that, and then all sudden you have like some 13-year-old boy who is like popular and be like, well, you have a really wide face.
• 1:07:55
  alexi: Like you look like a basketball.
• 1:07:56
  alexi: And to him it's just like, whatever, like it's a stupid comment, but then it's like, that's like in your head and you're like, oh, I've never thought about myself that way.
• 1:08:04
  alexi: And then all of a sudden you are worried for the next 5, 6, 7 years that you have like a really wide face and that like maybe you shouldn't put your hair up during basketball practice and like kind of stuff.
• 1:08:15
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:08:16
  alexi: yeah, like definitely edged sword with those kinda.
• 1:08:19
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I think, I mean, there's a whole general conversation just about what words can do.
• 1:08:24
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:08:24
  Glen Erickson: For people for sure.
• 1:08:26
  Glen Erickson: but it is definitely the double-edged ness of it.
• 1:08:29
  Glen Erickson: I, I just think it's also just, there's the wideness of just, people can say a thing and it can just really affect you and it can shut you off from certain.
• 1:08:38
  Glen Erickson: Directions that you might go in your life as a result, or propel you into them, which can also be awesome, right?
• 1:08:44
  Glen Erickson: Like there's a point when somebody sees a thing in you and identifies it and that really sort of brings an, an energy and a life to that and you start to maybe pursue it, right?
• 1:08:55
  Glen Erickson: So, and you need somebody to see that in you.
• 1:08:57
  Glen Erickson: And I think that's huge.
• 1:08:58
  Glen Erickson: And, and with all these conversations about artists and people in the music industry.
• 1:09:03
  Glen Erickson: I think everybody could probably tell a story of where was it that you felt that real validation, and it probably wasn't from your immediate family or friends, right?
• 1:09:12
  Glen Erickson: It was from somebody that.
• 1:09:15
  Glen Erickson: You respected and was outside of that normal circle who still saw you and saw some potential and took the time to draw that out of you, which is pretty awesome.
• 1:09:25
  Glen Erickson: Um, compared to like, you know, and Ryan telling the story of this girlfriend who is like, you shouldn't sing that way.
• 1:09:32
  Glen Erickson: And I, and I sort of briefly, had dropped in, like, I had heard the story of Bon that he used to sing in his early days with his early bands, just in his normal.
• 1:09:41
  Glen Erickson: Register a voice and then whatever the circumstance was that he showed up and he decided to sing a song in that high falsetto and sing a, a ladies part or something like that.
• 1:09:50
  Glen Erickson: And, um, I'd have to go back and fact check the story, but, and then people were like, that actually sounds awesome.
• 1:09:56
  Glen Erickson: And if somebody hadn't said, that actually sounds awesome, we might not have Bon of air,
• 1:09:59
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:10:00
  Glen Erickson: you know?
• 1:10:00
  Glen Erickson: cause that's became his trademark, really.
• 1:10:02
  Glen Erickson: And, yeah, just interesting the kind of.
• 1:10:06
  Glen Erickson: The windows that we can
• 1:10:07
  alexi: Yeah, I
• 1:10:08
  Glen Erickson: push ourselves through or Yeah.
• 1:10:10
  alexi: like casual, like even like with music, it's like if someone tells you like they like a band, then you just decide like, oh, maybe I should like, you know, give them a chance.
• 1:10:19
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:10:19
  Glen Erickson: Someone's opinion matters.
• 1:10:21
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:10:21
  alexi: yeah.
• 1:10:22
  alexi: Or like, wonder about like how many bands like I've discovered.
• 1:10:26
  alexi: Because someone in my life has like mentioned them or like how many bands I haven't gone and discovered because someone's like, oh, have you heard of this band?
• 1:10:32
  alexi: Like, oh, I really don't like them.
• 1:10:34
  alexi: Or like, like it goes both ways,
• 1:10:35
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:10:36
  alexi: but
• 1:10:36
  Glen Erickson: And how important that is.
• 1:10:39
  Glen Erickson: Even your fans' opinion is, or your audiences and whether they're really actively engaged in being even willing to talk about it for you or, or whatever, but you know, voluntarily or involuntarily people are by their opinions, passing you through a a, a window right.
• 1:10:58
  Glen Erickson: To someone else.
• 1:10:59
  Glen Erickson: And that can be.
• 1:11:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, that's like, that's feels very delicate.
• 1:11:03
  Glen Erickson: Just the way you have no control.
• 1:11:04
  Glen Erickson: When you hear someone else talk about it, you realize just how delicate that actually is.
• 1:11:09
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:11:09
  Glen Erickson: I guess the last little piece, I'll talk about that as I was listening as well.
• 1:11:13
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:11:13
  Glen Erickson: Music related.
• 1:11:14
  Glen Erickson: I was listening to another podcast song, Exploder, which is one of the oldest podcasts that's been around of, you know, having an artist actually break down how they wrote a song and the process they went through.
• 1:11:24
  Glen Erickson: And it's pretty famous.
• 1:11:25
  Glen Erickson: And I was scanning back, like all the way back to like 20 15, 16, 17, the early years.
• 1:11:32
  Glen Erickson: And I found that they did one with Lindsay Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac about the song.
• 1:11:37
  Glen Erickson: Go your own way.
• 1:11:38
  Glen Erickson: Which I was like, oh, I got, I want to hear this guy talk about the breakdown of this song for sure.
• 1:11:42
  Glen Erickson: And like there's all kinds of great stuff in it.
• 1:11:44
  Glen Erickson: But related to this, he talked about once the song was all finished and he talked about how they came to make it, but, and some of the choices they made, particularly with the drums and then it went to radio and he talked about how he was listening to the famous DJ in his city.
• 1:12:00
  Glen Erickson: Introduce the song and be like, here's the new song from Fleetwood Mac and blah blah blah.
• 1:12:04
  Glen Erickson: And then they played it and he was like, so happy to hear a song on the radio.
• 1:12:07
  Glen Erickson: And then at the end the DJ was like, yeah, I don't know how I feel about that one.
• 1:12:13
  Glen Erickson: That was it.
• 1:12:13
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 1:12:14
  Glen Erickson: And here's what was funny to me, is that Lindsey Buckingham, who kind of famously is like kind of spicy and outspoken.
• 1:12:21
  Glen Erickson: but he, I, he said he like called the radio station and asked to talk to the dj and so he actually like tried to call him on it because like it was so, like why would you do that?
• 1:12:33
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 1:12:33
  Glen Erickson: Like, you have so much influence by saying that about how, and it obviously worked out very well despite that dj, but just to call in and actually be the guy as an artist to call him on it.
• 1:12:46
  Glen Erickson: Like that's kinda.
• 1:12:47
  Glen Erickson: That was kind of funny to me.
• 1:12:48
  Glen Erickson: But Anyhow, that's, uh, that's some of the thoughts that I wanted to chat with you and I appreciate your experiences and all that kinda stuff.
• 1:12:55
  Glen Erickson: I don't think, I don't think you have a, I don't think your face is too round.
• 1:12:59
  Glen Erickson: I think it's just the perfect amount of round, by the way,
• 1:13:02
  alexi: Oh, thanks.
• 1:13:03
  Glen Erickson: always has been.
• 1:13:03
  Glen Erickson: Now, when you were born, that's another story.
• 1:13:05
  Glen Erickson: And we could share your baby pictures.
• 1:13:07
  alexi: That was a basketball,
• 1:13:09
  Glen Erickson: That was a basketball, you, you came out.
• 1:13:11
  Glen Erickson: Like a Michelin baby, but look how, look how incredible you've continued to be, so
• 1:13:16
  alexi: 20 years apparently.
• 1:13:19
  Glen Erickson: apparently.
• 1:13:20
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:13:20
  Glen Erickson: That's it.
• 1:13:20
  Glen Erickson: That's all.
• 1:13:21
  Glen Erickson: Good luck with your exams.
• 1:13:22
  Glen Erickson: I love you so much.
• 1:13:23
  alexi: Okay.
• 1:13:24
  Glen Erickson: I
• 1:13:24
  alexi: you.
• 1:13:24
  alexi: Bye.
• 1:13:25
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:13:25
  Glen Erickson: Bye-Bye.