Latest / UK Column Radio / Privacy, Sovereignty, and Culture | Jerm Warfare

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Privacy, Sovereignty, and Culture | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is germ warfare, the battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of ideas well.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: The bad points are that you are pro pro health,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: pro truth. You know, these these can't be allowed today.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: So it's funny you say that, work Gabriel, Yeah, thanks
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: for that. But it's funny you say that because what
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: thirty years ago, Yeah, if you were a rebel twenty
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: thirty years ago, you would have been against all of
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: these things that you just mentioned. Now, if you pro
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the those things, you are the rebel. Yeah.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Obviously there's all sorts of weird things happening today, trends,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: valuation of values, and all the good things are bad,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: all the bad things are good. And obviously the powerful people.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: That's why I talk about the technocracy. That's kind of
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: my brand, escape the technocracy. However you want to define,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: you know, the technocracy. Basically, it's the use of technology
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to control people. And that's a big emphasis of anybody
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: who gets into power. Is to control is to stifle
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: free speech, is to stifle a lot of these ideas.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: And with the podcast revolution, with the Internet revolution, people
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: are definitely being exposed to more and more ideas. I
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: can tell all the time that people I talk to
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: in real life. I'm like, oh, you must be on
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: you must be on X because you're saying some wild
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: stuff which is probably closer to the truth. But yeah,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of people who are waking up and
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: they're very hesitant, and they're very skeptical, and they're very Yeah,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: they're very they have their finger on the pulse of something.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: For sure, there's there's something going on here.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I sometimes wonder though, whether that whole quote unquote waking
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: up story can also be a bad thing, you know,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: it can work too on disadvantage.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: I think there's something to that, and in a number
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: of respects, because a lot of people make it their
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: identity just to go online and talk about these things.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: They're not actually being a rebel. They like to hear
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: rebellious things. They like to hear how victimized they are
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: by the system. And the more they can make this abstract,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: you know, the jew world order or what have you,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: the more they can feel like just eternal victims and
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: they just enjoy that. In fact, I've had people tell
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: me recently, like, you want to build your brand, stop
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: you know, stop talking about solutions, you know, build up
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: the fear porn a little bit and because that's what
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: people want to hear. They don't want to hear like, oh,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: there's a solution to you'll own nothing, you'll be happy,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Like we talk about it all the time. You can
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: download all the YouTube videos you want onto your own computer,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: you can get your own hard drives, you can have encryption.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: We have a replacement to the monetary system these days.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I know people who have run businesses off of cryptocurrency
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: for fifteen years, but they don't want to hear that.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: They really do, I think wants to just sit in
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: these just keep scrolling on X and see people say oh, yeah,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: look at how bad the surveillance has become, but then
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: not actually do anything about it. So yeah, I mean,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I think there's definitely some problems as well.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: It's funny you say that because I have been talking
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: about this for quite a while now that people in
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: the alternative independent space have become addicted to what's the
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: word I'm looking for the phrase they are consumers of
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: what our ridge, Yes, consumers of outrage, consumers of alternative media,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: as they don't really walk the talk.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of that. One of the most
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: important things you can do, of course, is to produce
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: and not consume. That's why you know. I was looking
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: at somebody that have a note on their on their
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: computer skin and says, are you producing or consuming? I
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: think that's a big part of it. That you don't
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: just want to be scrolling, you don't just want to
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: be reading. It's a big It's important to consume some stuff,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: but you want to actually be producing. And for people
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: who are truly rebellious, what does that mean these days?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: It means you know, having a family, having kids, growing,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: growing your own foods, building your own business, helping people out,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: knowing your local community. Right, that's a solution. I talk
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: about privacy a lot, and we can talk about all
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: the tools for privacy, but really the reason why there
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: is a lack of privacy is because people don't trust
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: each other. And when they don't know each other, when
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: they don't trust each other in a community, what do
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: they do. They outsource a lot of this policing and
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: surveillance to a bigger, more abstract apparatus, police, the county,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: the state, the government, and then before you know, you
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: have a very trustless society. But these these can be
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: solved by all the old fashioned things about knowing your
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: community and all that kind of stuff. That's where people's
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: efforts should be focused on. I know they're listening to
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: the show right now, but hopefully they're doing something productive
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: while they're doing it, you know, digging out some trenches
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: for their for their vegetables, or working out or something
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: like this.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: So I can guarantee you that a lot of them
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: are not, and I'll tell you why, because the independent
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: alternative space has become saturated with a lack of trust.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Everybody is controlled, opposition and a gatekeeper.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's the super negative view, but there's
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: certainly a lot of that. I do talk to people.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I see people, and they ask the most bizarre questions
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: about trusting the most.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm saying that sarcastic to you, by the way.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, there are people like that for sure. Now.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I try to get it caught up in that at
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: a certain point you just have to agree on certain
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: assumptions and move on from there. And I've been down
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: some of those rabbit holes and crazy skepticism. But at
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, the skepticism is an endless pit. Yes,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Like exactly some of the people who will who will
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: go and start questioning some topic. I'm like, yeah, well
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: how do you know that? Well, well, you know I
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: read this, Or I'm like, well, how do you know
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: that the words you reads actually interact with the with
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: your brain in the way you think. Now, look, I've
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: got a background philosophy, so we can do the skepticism
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to the point where you know nothing. Trust me. So
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: at some point we take things on faith, we agree
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: on certain things, and you just have to let this
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: skepticism go and funnel that energy into productivity.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: UK's co founder Brian Gerrish said on my show a
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago that he finds that a good default
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: position is to take people that face you.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's I think that's perfectly fine. It's
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: a lot easier, by the way, if you're talking to
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: people in person, which I try to do a lot
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: of these days. There's no online argument worth having. I
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: see you on your back on Twitter, you're replying, you're
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: applying to people. I'm just like, I wouldn't even do that,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to be honest, Like, there's zero value I find And yeah, no.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I agree, I need people online. I only do that
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: because I'm just trying to get a little bit of traction.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, just no, it's good for the algorithm, it definitely.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: It definitely makes people like that is a good strategy
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: if you're trying to build an audience on Twitter and
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: get people interested in you, is to respond to people.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: I do that sometimes. I try not to be a
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: sarcastic dickhead, but that's usually the version to me that
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: comes out. But what can I say now that that's
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: inside me as well. I grew I grew up on
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: the Internet. I've definitely said some very mean things in
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: chat rooms and video games. We all have, Yeah, and
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: that part of me is still there. But yeah, in general,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I really try to have any serious conversation with somebody
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I know in person if I can.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I think Jordan Peterson was right when he said that
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the Internet has amplified sociopathic behavior.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, there's the Internet is definitely responsible for a
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: lot of a lot of problems we have, and we
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: can take you know. This is where I moved a
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: little bit away from the techno optimism, and I try
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: to bring a little bit of techno pessimism back to things,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: not too much like I try to be a little
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: bit in the middle. But you know, there's a reason
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: why Ted Kaczynski's Manifesto is a best seller on Amazon
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: in many categories because people look at that, they look
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: at the title, they read the book, and they're like, yeah,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: you know, technology is not all that great. It's certainly
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: producing a lot of husks of human beings who are
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: just sitting at home. They're not interacting with people. Well, like,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: how many people are there out there right now? Who
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: they go to work, they go home, They don't interact
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: with anybody else throughout the day. They're following their whatever
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Twitch streamer that they're following. That's just how they spend
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: the next three hours of their life. And then they're
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: ordering Uber eats to their house. They don't even go out,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: and then you know they do the pornography thing and
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: all the rest. There's serious consequences to technology as well.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: On the Internet has absolutely amplified a lot of the
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: worst qualities of humanity.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I just realized that there's no video feed for you.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: And it's not because you are technologically challenged. It's just
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: that you are the privacy guy.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: If you give me five seconds, I can I can
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: fix that. It's just I have to reach over and
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: fix something.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm pointing that out for those watching
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the video.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, so I'm the privacy guy. I started out
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: talking heavily about privacy. The brand now has Escape the Technocracy.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I've kind of migrated to a larger brand. But yeah,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: privacy was. Privacy is a big focus of mind. I've
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: gone down the privacy rabbit hole. Extreme privacy. We're talking
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what my home address is. Okay,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: that's that's how much I'm off the grid. There's there's nothing,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: nothing that reveals my location at any given time. Alternative
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: operating systems on phone and you know computer. I get
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: into all all the sorts of privacy strategies. I advise
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: on them, I talk about them all the time. And
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: for me, that was it was an interesting thing, especially
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: in the age of surveillance. How far can you get
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: off the grid? And there's a legitimate reasons why people
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: would want to do that. There, you know, I have
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: clients that are escaping from violent ex lovers and things
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: of the sort. There are legitimate reasons. And I think
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: everybody obviously should be concerned to a degree about their
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: privacy because surveillance is very obviously control. But I've I've
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: also pivoted the brand a little bit just to talk
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: more about digital freedom. Right, how do we actually own
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: the stuff on the internet, for example, and not be
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: just continuous renters. So there's there's a lot of things
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: when you get into thinking, we'll say, thinking about digital
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: tools in a little bit of a healthier different way.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: You regain your privacy, yes, you also gain your ownership
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: so that we're not pursuing this world of you'll own
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: nothing and be happy. You start to own more things.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: You have to have more sovereignty over your software. I'm running,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: for example, Linux operating system to talk to you right now.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Most of the most of the programs on my desktop
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: are free and open source software. I know all the
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: code that has gone into those it's you know. I
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: can view that. I can see that there's no update
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: ever being forced on me. That's another part of the
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: ethos of free and open source software. So I'm owning
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: this software as much as I can. It's not spying
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: on me. I don't need accounts, I don't need permission
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: to do the things in my life. Sure, when I
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: when I pull up a browser and I start using
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: those sorts of cloud services is maybe some of that changes.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: But I've developed the mindsets, I have the tools so
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: that when somebody asks for a phone number, this or that,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not revealing anything that really attaches to me. And
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: so it's an interesting lifestyle and one that I hope
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: we get into some of these things. But it's also
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: led me down the path to discover a different side
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: of the Internet.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have found germ warfare if I didn't have
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a text savviness and maybe a
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: little bit of a skeptical mindset and found myself on
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: some back alleys of the internet. Perhaps. So it has
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: a number of uses.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: So you and I do speak offline, and you have
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: sent me one or two photos, and I can confirm
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: you are in a very remote but beautiful location, that's
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: for sure. So you are walking the talk in that sense.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I tried to walk the talk. I'm a little
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: bit less extreme these days because I realized, hey, if
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: you want to do some networking, if you want to
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: really make some connections with people, if he wants to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: increase your wealth, which can also lead to better freedom
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: and privacy, you should probably you know, open up a
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: little bit to the world. I still don't have my
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: camera on right now. I'm not going to trust our
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: software to look at my face. And it's also just
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: a habit of mine and I always make a joke about,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, I can't get my camera working, even though
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I'm the tech guy. But yeah, no, I try to
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: walk the talk. I think that's important. I think that's
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: something that a lot of privacy influencers don't do. I'm like, wait,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: why are you using your real name? Why are you
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: showing your real face? You know, why are you not
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: going down the deep layers of privacy, not just fiddling
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: with your iPhone settings, oh you know, turn off the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: you know, turn off the front facing camera, but actually
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: getting physical privacy, which is really crucial, difficult, really important,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: having utilities privacy, jurisdictional privacy, legal privacy, all these sorts
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: of things are things that I discussed with clients on
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: a regular basis in addition to the tech stuff. So yeah,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I do try to walk the talk. I think that's
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's very important.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Obviously, you've just made me feel like such a loser
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: now because I still use Apple.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but I'm glad
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you brought up how bad you are. Let me look
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: when it comes to Apple products, Apple's approach to sovereignty
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: and privacy is trust us bro. That's kind of their approach.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: And sure you can. You can trust Apple. Their stuff
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: works decently well. I Also, here's the other thing. So
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: there's some privacy concerns with Apple devices right when I
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: when I have an iPhone, I cannot use that without
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: an account. For example, it's a lot of closed software.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: We just assume that they're sending a lot of this
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: data back to the mothership, which they are. Right you're
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: using a MacBook, they're you know, they know what your
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: IP addresses, all these sorts of things. But the other
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: thing about Apple that I'm starting to hate even more
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: than the privacy stuff is they're anti tech. They're anti computers.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: So I'm a big PC guy, and what Apple has
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: done is they they've gone off in a different direction.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: They're making their own computer chips. They don't let you
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: repair their computers. You can't upgrade their computers. You can't
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: take all the components in the PC world and just
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: use them on Mac products. They've gone off in their
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: own direction. They're a very closed ecosystem, which is in
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: my view, is a huge mistake. So I'm a PC
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: master race toxic person. And so that's another reason why
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I don't like Mac. But yeah, it is what it is.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: But hopefully you hate Microsoft even more.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, don't get me wrong. There's no there's no Microsoft
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: stuff on my computer either, and there's no Google. I'm
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: basically completely de googled. They do have a YouTube channel,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: but that's just because where a lot of people end up.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: So I just upload there and I'm on my way.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: But I know I'm de googled. No Microsoft, there's very
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: little big tech influence in my life.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, you use graphine os, I think on your phone.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I try not to use a phone. I don't think
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: people really need to use a phone as much as
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: they think they do. For all of your computing needs,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: you're banking all the rest, you don't need a phone
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: in most cases. I mean some people their bank really
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: requires them to use an app. But in most cases
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: you really don't need a phone for anything except emergence,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: except phone calls when you're away from home. When you're
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: at home, I can use signal on my PC. I
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: do it all the time. I make most of my
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: phone calls to people I know within my network on
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: my own computer at home. I don't need a phone
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: when I'm at home, So it's just when you're away
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: from home that I maybe need a phone. But I'll
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: travel without it regularly, or at least with it turned off,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: maybe in a Faraday bag. So yeah, I don't even
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: think you need a phone as much as you do
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: if you do get into kind of phone privacy, sure. Graphinos,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: which is a way of taking a Google Pixel phone,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: wiping out all the Google developments of it, is basically
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: hijacking the device with a new operating system called Graphinos,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: which degoogles every thing, still has a very functional experience
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: on there. That's definitely an avenue that people can go down.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: It's kind of the equivalent for Linux on PCs. You're
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: basically taking a big tech product, you're wiping it out,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: You're hijacking the hardware and installing your own operating system
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: of your choosing. So I like that. Again, it's not
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: just about privacy, it's about sovereignty. It's about hacking the
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: systems in front of us. It's about taking matters into
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: our own hands. That's what I like about this, this
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: kind of lifestyle.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: To be fair, though, at the risk of sounding like
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: a hypocrite, there are multiple battles that we are fighting.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: So if I'm a bit weak, shall we say, because
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: as I said, I use Apple, I still try and
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: be strong, as it were, in other aspects of my life.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Well, we all have our preferences. I find that most
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: people don't go down the privacy digital sovereignty rabbit hole
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: because they think it's super complicated. I've never found it
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: super comple gated personally. But yeah, I mean, you know,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: you're you're you're part of the revolution.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Running hang on, hang on, no, no, no, wait wait,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I used Linux. I said linux, by the way, not linux.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the correct way of saying.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: You've never heard anybody call it linux. Just to be clear.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, but what's his name to what's the guy's name
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: on which it was based?
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: So his name is Torvald Linus, that it's called Nux.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go with the one that sounds closer
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: to his name if you want to.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: If you want to go against the entire history of pronunciation,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: you do you.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I'm a rebel, of course.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, Look I know you've you've used Lenox, it wasn't
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: able to do what you wanted to do.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I tried it for two years.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what was the biggest what was the
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: single biggest problem?
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Tinkering? Everything requires tinkering, and uh and when you when
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: you do the amount of that I do. I don't
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: want to spend two three hours a day trying to
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: get stuff to work. And I tried different versions of Linux.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I installed a Buntu because that that that's rooted with
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: with a fellow South African Mark Shuttle with. Then I
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: tried open sews and then I tried uh uh Fedora.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: That's that's no go arch. There's no ways this, no, no, no, no,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: And all of those are all.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Of those either are a little bit more advanced or
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: they have a default desktop environment that I went was
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: difficult to learn.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I went with ment. Ultimately, that's what I'm.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Using right now is Lenux meant it will remind people
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: of the old days of Windows. And you know, in
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: terms of productivity, you know, I don't know what to say.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I've got Audacity here, I can record my stuff. I
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: have Katie and live here. I can edit my videos.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And then I use a browser for most of my
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: stuff like most people. So I've never had a problem,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: but I would encourage people try some thing like Lenox Mint.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Get an old computer in old PC, or you can
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: buy a Lenovo think Pad for less than two hundred
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: dollars on eBay or secondhands. Just install Lenox Mint on
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: it and give it a go and you'll find obviously
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: that or you'll find that you're now using an operating
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: system that is not spying on you. You don't need
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: an account and it is you know, it's a better
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: ethos right, the free and open source software movement where
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: people are collaborating, they're doing in full transparency. That I mean,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: it's almost a cult right.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: In a way.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: That's how how much people love this kind of stuff.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: But they love it for a reason because that's a
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: better way of doing things, and it's a way of
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: getting it's a way of undermining big tech.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I think one of the what's the got of making
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: for the droll cards of Apple though, is it has
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: a very strong creative suite. I record music as a hobby,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: you know, electric guitars and Midti keyboards and that kind
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: of stuff, and logic pro is the software and it's
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: industry standard. Now it's very difficult to find that kind
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: of stuff a monix.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, if you're if you're the points zero zero
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: one percent in the population, that's that's doing those activities.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I agree, you know, maybe maybe Apples the way to
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: go for you. For sure, everybody else give limits a try.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: But having said that, I do have a Linux machine.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I've got to I've got a separate laptop that is Linux.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Well. Well, that's the other thing is that people people
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: think that, oh, I need to have like this one computer. No.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I mean I've got a dozen computers lying around here,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: and a lot of them are very cheap. It's not
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: like they're expensive. It's secondhand computers. I have one, and
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: now I upgrade. Now I have another computer. Well what
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: can I do with that old computer? I can with
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: my knowledge of how to install a new operating system,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: I can install a bitcoin note. I can install a
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: server that is doing all sorts of things for me
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: in the background. That that is, you know, torrents and
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: things legal things obviously, that is you know, running my
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: AI assistant. That is you know, do you know running
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: my media library of videos that actually own So yeah,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: I mean having multiple computers, installing multiple operating systems. Getting
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: comfortable with that it's not as difficult as you think,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: can absolutely open up a world of freedom of self hosting.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: That's another key aspect to this, where you're not using
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Google Drive anymore. You're hosting your own files on your
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: own hardware that you have, your own hard drives that
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: you purchase within your house and even outside of your house.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: These are the things that people need to realize they
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: don't need to be locked down. Even if you need
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: a Apple computer for your recording of various things. You can
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: have a world outside of Apple, the freedom world where
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: you can actually be a free human being.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: There's an interesting macro segue here when we're talking about
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: privacy and surveillance. And I live in South Africa and
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: it's notoriously an African country, right, So we have a
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: remarkably broken infrastructure, and that includes surveillance cameras of which
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: there are very few, usually have bullet holes in them,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: people break, shoot them, broken, that kind of thing, and
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: we don't have a very strong government. Now, I see
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: that as a good thing, and that's one of the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: reasons why I enjoy living. Yeah, we spoke about this
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I think on your podcast, and as a result, you
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: don't prioritize things like surveillance and privacy as much as
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: you would say in China. Now, where I'm going with
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: this is because again, as I said, we spoke about
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: this on your podcast. Are you free if you are
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: in an incredibly dangerous society?
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah? This gets us into some very.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Deep can't you if you're you've you've muted yourself?
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Can you hear me now?
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I mean this gets us into some really
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: really deep questions. I don't look at all cultures equally.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: I think some cultures value privacy, some don't. So when
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I talk about privacy and such, I'm talking about the
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Western tradition, and I would include South Africa for the
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: most part in that tradition. And I think that the
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: system in China works for the Chinese. I think that
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: you know, in we see Latin America taking a right
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: wing authoritarian turn. I think that's honestly probably best for them.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: You know, we have places like El Salvador and such. Basically,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: what happened in El Salvador was a guy came in
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: and he said, look, all of these literally satanic gang
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: people that made it the murder capital of the Western hemisphere.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: He just them all up, put them into a giant prison.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Now it's safe to walk at night in El Salvador.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I've been to El Salvador in the last few months.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: It's a safe place you can actually go and do
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: stuff that is freedom, where you can leave your house,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: you can do stuff. Your teenage daughter can go out
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: and not fear being attacked or harassed or these sorts
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: of things. That's great. So it's a nuanced conversation. But
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: in the West, I think Western people are well suited
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: for decentralization. I think they're well suited therefore for privacy.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: But there are some key ingredients I think that are
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: necessary in order to have those things. I think you
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: have to have a homogeneous society. The more multicultural, the
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: less trust there is. I mean, that's an observed fact.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: And of course Western countries are increasingly less homogeneous. So
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think they have the ability to have these
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: sorts of privacy freedom oriented societies anymore. It's just not
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: going to happen. Thing that you really need to fix
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: from the start before we even have these sorts of conversations.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: But to the broader point, I do think that you
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: have to consider many things in this conversation of how
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: far do you want to go with freedom? You have
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: to consider many, many things, including the demographics, as I've
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: just said, including maybe underlying values. Maybe you know, maybe
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: you could say you need people with appreciation for the
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Ten Commandments and these sorts of things. With this work
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: and an atheist society. Those are the sorts of questions
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I'm more interested in, because I don't increasingly think less
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: that it's a matter of economics or politics or some
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: of these other things, and there's some really deep things
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: that need to be solved. I used to be kind
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: of an anarchist, but there's a the Leo Tolstoy was
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: also an anarchist. He has to really replying. Leo Tolstoy
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: has a really good line, and this is how I
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: end one of my books. He says, you know, talk
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: about revolution, right, What is needed is the most important
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: revolution the regeneration of the inner man and his morality.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: And I think that's something I'm more focused on and
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: less kind of pointing out, like, oh, you know, there's
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: this aspect of surveillance in this country and all the rest.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: When I see that My first instinct isn't oh, you know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: tear it down. My first instinct now is okay, why
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: is that there? Like, why does China have all the
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: surveillance do they? What are the Chinese people think about them?
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're okay with that, Maybe they value being able
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: to walk around safe at night. Maybe they actually, if
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: we're being honest, as you've talked about, maybe they actually
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: have more freedom of speech, for example, than people living
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: in San Francisco. So I do appreciate the flexibility of
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: thinking through these issues right now and just saying, you know,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: all surveillance bad, all the rest. I'm the privacy guy.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: That hurts me to say that. But there's deeper things
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: that work here.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean what you're ultimately pointing to is this
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: is a false doock caught to me? Because I guess
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: another way of asking my question is you have a
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: mass surveillance state like China, and then you have my country, which,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: depending on which source you read, is genuinely considered about
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the seventh most dangerous country in the world, including war zones. Right.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: So in other words, my wife can't walk alone at
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: night to the shop, right, So, yeah, we don't have
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the surveillance that China has, So who's better off? You
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: know what I mean?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: No, of course, and I would if you give me
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: a choice of South Africa or China, I'd probably say, well,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I'll take China at this point. But you know, I
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: can see the trajectory that South Africa is going, and
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: that's kind of part of it. I know people who
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: have chosen to live in China and they they you know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: they like it. They realize that there are restrictions. But
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: my person I know who chose to move to China
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: is a little bit obnoxious about it. Basically says, oh, yeah,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: there's more free speech here than the US and Canada.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's true though, Okay, dude, And.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: He says that, you know, as long as you're not
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: criticizing the government, you can, you know, you can talk
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: about how there's only two genders without getting fired. You can,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever you want to do, deny the Holocaust,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: these sorts of things, there's just kind of one thing
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: you're not supposed to do. So anyway, that's that's that's
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: how he sees it. You know, I don't necessarily want
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: to go and thoroughly tests these sorts of things.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: But I mean, what what what you're essentially saying is
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: that the idea of privacy uh is actually relative?
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Oh man, We're we're really getting me to to question
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: my my entire values and all the rest. I think
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: that I think that privacy, freedom, decentralization naturally flow from
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: a well put together, homogeneous Western society. That that's that's
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: how I would put it, And I'm more concerned about
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: fixing those underlying things at this point. Uh. Then putting
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: you know, a bandage on on on a wound instead
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: of treating the source is how I think. Now I'm
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: willing to do both. Like we can put that bandage
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: on and have these conversations. And obviously I talk about
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: all sorts of privacy strategies, but I don't think for
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: a minute that that's actually solving any underlying problem. When
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: somebody takes down a flock camera in the US, I
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: don't think that's solving an underlying problem. If you look
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: at the like the CEO, I think, like one of
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: the people high up in the flock ecosystem. These are
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: cameras that have cropped up all around the US that
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: are recording people's license plates. I think he's a guy
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: of Indian origin, and you know, I mean, does does
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: that guy value privacy and freedom like like you know
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Americans who have who have, who have grew up in
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: generations of these ideas. No, I don't think so. So
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: there's there's there's other things that work here. And it's
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: not just a matter of cutting down the flock camera.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: It's not just a matter of using your Linux operatings,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: because there are other problems at work. And you know,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: the flock cameras are a good example because sure, I can
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: sit in my sit on my throne here and have
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: access to all the cryptocurrencies and all the freedom tech
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I want, but I have to go outside at some point,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: and those cameras are outside, and when I'm in the
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: public domain, on the public roads, suddenly I don't have
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: the ability to control my environment. Suddenly I am at
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: the whims of my culture now and the decisions that
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: they have made about privacy, and they've made them recently
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: again and again that they don't value privacy. They're okay
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: having cameras around everywhere, They're okay with surveillance cameras that
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: destroy my ability to be anonymous and to be private.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe I don't know if I'm answering the question,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: but maybe that's some stuff for people to think about.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: You kind of all answering the question rather diplomatically, I
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: might add, but is there any is there any constellation
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: in the fact that a lot of humans aren't involved
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: with surveillance that is just it's just algorithms and computers,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and ultimately, if you're driving on the road and you
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: get picked up by a camera, they don't actually know
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: anything about you. You're just you're just a daughter point.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: It's also a good point because we worry so much
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: about surveillance and all the rest. And there's a side
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: of this, which is that, you know, freedom means you
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: not caring about certain things like are you realistically going
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: to be punished in the West for certain activities that
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: you're doing. Probably not, Like is this surveillance actually going to,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: you know, cause you to get into trouble in most cases?
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Probably not. I'm sure there's there's this is where it will.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: But when you're recording so much and this is what
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: actually what the NSA realized during their high era of
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: surveillance that snowed and exposed. Obviously they still do this
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: stuff is that they just had so much stuff that
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: they were observing they couldn't really do anything with it.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: It didn't stop nine to eleven, for example. So at
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: a certain point, there's just so much going on that's like,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: this is a common thing. You'll see people who don't
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: care about the privacy question. Says, oh, they don't care
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: what I'm doing. And I think that's true. I think
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: that's actually buy and large true. And I do think
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: you can overthink these things a little bit. And one
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: of the biggest middle fingers to the system is to say,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to do what I'm going to do,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: and you know, come stop me. Basically I had to.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: I remember talking to a friend and I was talking about, oh,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: you know, you could do this in terms of reducing
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: your tax liability. Oh, you could do this and this
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: and this and this, and at the end he just
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: looked at them and he said, you pay taxes. So
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: there's there's kind of that aspect to it as well.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: And I do appreciate the people who don't care, who
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: legitimately don't care. They're like, okay, surveillance, I'm just I'm
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: not going to let that live right free. In my mind,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do what I'm going to do, and
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: sure if I get some kind of extra ticket down
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: the road. A lot of these people don't even pay those, right,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: So there is a rebelliousness in not caring about these
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: things at all whatsoever.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, let me give you an example. You
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: just mentioned a ticket. So here in South Africa you
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: can actually get away with not paying speeding fines. And
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the reason for that is because here in the province
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: that I'm in, which is the Western Cape, there was
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: a court ruling that basically made the judgment that the
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: entire speed speed find in digital infrastructure was corrupt and
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: therefore cannot be trusted and therefore null and void, and
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: they haven't fixed it for ten years now, which means
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: that you can actually just simply not pay any speeding
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: fines and nothing gets nothing happened to you.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: And in Latin America, places like Mexico, on paper they
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: have high taxes, for example, restrictions, but in practice nobody
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: really pays those things. So there is a level of
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: rebelliousness that is a lot deeper than the people screaming
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: about this surveillance camera. The amount of surveillance cameras in London.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: The people in London who are going about their lives
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: probably not realistically affected by these cameras. They just go
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: about doing their stuff and not caring about it. It's
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: not living rent free in their mind.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: There is.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: There's definitely a freedom in that. And you know, I
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: am a I am a fan to an extent of
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: dysfunctional places because you can, you know, obviously, get away
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: with a whole lot more. And people do realize that. Okay, sure,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: you know there's the law, but you know that doesn't
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: necessarily mean.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: So someone had those conversation with me about a week ago.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Oh but it's the law, right, Okay, so what here
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: in South Africa? Forty years ago, it was the law
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: that if you were black, you weren't allowed to be
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: on the same train as a white person, right, But
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that was the law. The law's fickle. It changes based
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: on who's in power.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I get it now. I'm not moving necessarily
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: to South Africa anytime soon, but you're going to visit.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: But I will visit. I will absolutely visit. But that's
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: because I like a good train wreck. No, I'm sure
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: things are, but look, South Africa is its own situation.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: You have a serious racial tensions that are I think
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: are absolutely going to collapse that country. But that's not
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: necessarily the case everywhere, certainly to the extreme extent elsewhere.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: So I think South Africa is definitely a different situation.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: But I hear what you're saying.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of an outlier in in some ways.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, absolutely, And you know, I can I have
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: a crystal ball. I can see what's going to happen
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: in South Africa the next ten or twenty years, which
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: is why I don't want to be there.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: It's the other way around. Western countries are going to
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: look like South Africa in twenty years. What should I'm
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: telling you.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe I should go to South Africa and study, learn
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: some heade your bets, learn what to expect. Yes, absolutely absolutely.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Look, I mean we are making light of these things.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: But the point is, Gabriel, that the idea of privacy
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: is very important. This is why Katain Austenfitz PUSH's cash
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people talk about carrying cash all
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: the time. I've had a lot of debates recently about
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: why I'm not a big fan of carrying cash, and
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: it's to do with safety. But think about this, For
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: a second, cash is still feat and that's government legislated
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: currency that is manufactured by the banking system. So by
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: using cash, you still perpetuating the system.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Well, of course, if you really want to give them
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: middle finger to the Fiat system, you just take out
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: as many credit cards as you can and never pay
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: them off because that's not actually debt that you owe.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And you take out a bunch of loans and all
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: this and just never pay them back. Right, I'm not
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: suggesting people do that, but yeah, I mean, look, you've
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: touched on a number of things. There obviously were more
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: people than ever are aware of the crazy Fiat system.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: These dollars that are not backed by anything, these currency
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: notes that are not backed by anything, you know, the
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: famous case being the what was it, the one hundred
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: trillion dollars Zimbabwe note. That kind of tells you where
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: all this stuff goes eventually, right, more trillionaires per capita
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: than any country Zimbabwe back before they just completely got
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: rid of their currency. So there's the Fiat problem. Yes,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: I agree, there's the Fiat problem. And inflation, which is
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: money printing. I hope a lot of people understand that
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: at this point, and there are alternatives to that we
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: could talk about cryptocurrency.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Is this is what I was going, This is where
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I was going with that. Speaking again about privacy, I mean,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I know that you've spoken about Maniro for example, what
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: do your views on cryptocurrency?
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: I try to be careful about how I It's kind
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: of like, you know, probalytizing to somebody. At this point,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: You're like you're waiting for the opening. You're not going
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: to be like, oh, you know, have you have you
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: accepted Jesus as your lord and say You're not going
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: to start with that, right, It's going to be more.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Like you wait, baby steps.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Well, and honestly, I'm legitimately not trying to proplytize. What
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: all I'll say is that there are solutions for the
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: FIAT system, the banking system. I'm kicked off. You know,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: I've been kicked off some of these banking systems. There
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: was somebody tweeting in the bitcoin community recently about how
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Wise discriminates against anybody who has an attachment even tangentially
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: to bitcoin. They'll just shut down your account. Of course,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: they never give a reason. All the sorts of garbage
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: that the banking system is responsible for, of course the
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: government is also side by side with them in shutting
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: down people's accounts, and you can't you know, you can't
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: take out your money, you don't own your money. All
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: these sorts of things. Cryptocurrency is cropped up as a
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: way around that. Bitcoin is the og. Bitcoin has a
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: transparent Ledger's got some privacy problems. I think the community
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: has not leaned into actually using it and spending it.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: They have this idea that it is going to go
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: up in value. It's just this, you know, it has
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: value by virtue of the fact that there's only twenty
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: one million of them. I don't get too much into
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. On a practical level. I do know
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: people who have lived and run businesses on cryptocurrencies for
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: the last fifteen to twenty years. They've never had a
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: bank account, They've never touched the Fiat system. You can
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: get around like that. We discussed these things, you know,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: we in our newsletter Watchman's Torch on Substack. We talk
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: about going around to these bitcoin communities and using just
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: bitcoin across the world. These things do exist. You can
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: live on cryptocurrency. Manaro is one I talk about as well.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: It's kind of more privacy focus. I'm not talking about
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: speculating or investing in these things, but as a tool
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: for financial freedom to get around the banking system and
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: all these good things. It does work. It's not simple,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: like a lot of the bitcoin influencers like to say.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: It's not simple. It's not easy just to accept cryptocurrencies
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: in your shop, manaro. You can't even buy in most
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: exchanges these days. It's been delisted. You're immediately on the
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: peer to peer marketplace. So I don't want to talk
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: about this as some kind of panacea, but for those
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: who have the appetite to get into it, it absolutely
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: works for people. And absolutely when you make a transaction
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: and it's just click, click, and you've sent whatever a
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars to somebody across the world in like three
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: seconds and not a single person on earth can stop that,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: that's pretty powerful. That's a pretty cool feeling.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the blind spot that I think many
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: of the cash pundits have. I mean, I'm not anti cash.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: I mean I have cash on me right now. For example,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I don't carry that much cash on me because it
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: is quite dangerous.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how much cash do you carry around with you?
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Should? I technically walking around South up. But one of
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: the blind spots is the cash comes from your bank account. Now,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: during COVID, bank accounts were being shut down if people
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: were saying the wrong things Gabriel on social media, what
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: happens if you have no bank account, you don't get cash?
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Well no, I look, I see what you're saying. In
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: those situations, there are people who run cash only businesses
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and they accept cash for their business.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: But you need a bank account. In order to get
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: the cash out of an ATM, for example, you have
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: to first have a bank account.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Well sure, I mean I could go pawn my stuff
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: off in my house on Craigslist for cash. I could start,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: you know, cutting somebody's grass for cash. So you know,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: people have run cash only businesses. That's that's definitely a thing.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: You could even run an e commerce business with cash
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: and have them mail cash in most countries that that
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: will work, right, Maybe not South Africa, but most countries
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: that will work. So yeah, I mean you can get
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: cash outside of the banking system. I do get your
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: point that you're still using the dirty FIAT, but I'm
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: still a big fan of cash where it's safe to
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: carry it around. I'm happy to carry around lots of cash.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I pay exclusively in cash whenever I can, and that's
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: a that's a great privacy strategy. But yeah, it's look,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: we could we could get into gold backs. Those are
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: those are interesting. Basically it's as it looks like a bill,
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: but it has particles of gold that have been put
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: onto this bill, so you're getting more back to a
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: gold standard. I guess theoretically you could pay with pieces
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: of silver. You could pay with whatever you want. I'm
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: fine with cash. I think that's I think that the
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: fiat system, especially the US dollar, is going to last
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: a lot longer than people think. I'm not going to
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: be betting against it, certainly in the in the short term.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: You know, you can go around the world and still
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: use one hundred dollars bills to get you places. I
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: think that's the most powerful to not China, of course exactly. Yeah, no,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: China is its own beast. But I think I think
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: the US dollars the most powerful privacy tool in the
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: world to this day. So I'm okay being a little
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: bit agnostic about these things. Even this is kind of
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: one of the themes of this discussion so far. I'm
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: okay using that tool, even if I understand deep down
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: that it's it's attached to a very big problem.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Well this is the point. So there's a there's a
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: degree of complexity and nuance going on here, and I
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: think that the binary one zero uh way of thinking
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: is not terribly constructive.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: You've got to be adaptive and flexible in these things.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: This is one thing that I'll see, for example, the
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: bitcoin maximalist and they say, oh, no, I'm not touching
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: the other cryptocurrencies, and no, I'm not going to use
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: cash because the fiat system's broken. Okay, I would prefer
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: as to be opportunistic. All right, maybe there's a use
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: case for bitcoin increasingly, I would say less so, especially
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: if you're privacy oriented. Maybe maybe you're interested in an error.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: But maybe you're using the dollar, which I do for
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: almost everything. I can use cash, and I've traveled extensively
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: in Latin America and Europe. You can use cash still
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: no problem. I know we have this cash list society narrative.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: That is the case in China, as you know, Jeremy,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: But in most places you can still use cash plenty.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: So we don't want to be tied down to one
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: particular thing, use all the tools at your disposal. Okay,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: maybe sometimes you need to use an Apple computer because
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: you're making music that gives you enjoyment. Maybe you can
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: run a business off of that, so you have to
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: have your Apple computer for those sorts of software. That's fine.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here and say you have
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: to do all these things by the book. There's an
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: adaptability that is also important, especially if you're being a
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: person pursuing privacy in a world that is constantly shifting.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to get an angry reply from someone going,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: you can't use cash and China. Yes you can, but
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I was there almost a month and I didn't see
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: a single cash note or coin, so's it's possible, but
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: it's not the default anymore.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Well, that's another thing, is people who say, oh, you
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: can do this, you can't. For example, I was posting
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: something on Twitter recently about how we need to be
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: realistic about how difficult it is to accept cryptocurrencies on
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: a website. You're always giving up something. Okay, you're either
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: giving up privacy or sovereignty, or you're giving up your
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: certainly automation. So you're always giving up something. And somebody replied,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: who was running this like monarow plug in for something like, oh, yeah,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: you should just use this plugin. I was like, no,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: that does not solve, Like you're still giving up something
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: in that process. So the people who are very rich
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: and they say oh you can do this, you can't
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: do that, they don't live in the real world. And
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: in the real world you want to have, you want
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: to be able to you know, if you do these
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: super rigid things like some of these people you talk
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: about describe, you're not going to have money, You're not
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: going to be able to get around, You're not going
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: to be able to do a lot of the things
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: that ultimately we really want to be doing. I don't
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: want to be sitting Ted Kaczynski style in some bunker
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: somewhere and waiting out my life and not participating in
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: the stock market that's reaching, by the way, all time highs.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: If you were somebody who was who was preaching about
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: how the economy is going to collapse, the global economy
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: in the last twenty years thirty years, you're a liar
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: and you have misinformed people to a staggering degree, and
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: you've lost out on immense amounts of wealth. So you're
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: a problem, and you have to sit there and realize
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: that you were wrong in your assessment and you have
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: lost out on life, you've lost out on profits, and
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: maybe you shouldn't be quite as rigid about the things
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: that you believe in because there's the underlying values and
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: then which we don't really want to sacrifice on. But
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: there's a number of tools at our disposal, and you
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: want to make use of some of these tools. Sometimes
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: sometimes I might want to use drop Box, for example,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: but I can use a program such as crypto Cryptometer,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: where I can encrypt everything within Dropbox, so I can
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: use all of the amazing infrastructure that drop Box has
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: created where I can access large amounts of data around
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: the world. But drop Box is not able to see
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: what's inside that in crypto container, I'm hijacking this big
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: tech system. So that's kind of what I'm saying.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: And this is quite important because it's very easy to
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: get lost in ideology, have a family, and then suddenly
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: see how your worldview changes.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: There are simple pleasures, There are simple things that yeah,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: I agree people should fall back on on. Get off
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: the internet. Certainly after this episode of this show, stop
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: listening to podcasts for a while, go touch some grass,
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: build some stuff, do some wood working, and yeah, don't
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: get this is that this is one of the problems
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: with the Internet is that people have all these ideas
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: that they really probably shouldn't have honestly to the to
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: the to the extent that they have them. When people
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: go down these rabbit holes on the Internet and they
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: just lose their sanity, I'm like, Okay, you're you're red pilled.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: What is the what's at the end of the red pill? Insanity?
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Is that worth it? So yeah, I agree, people should
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: be should moderate. The simple things in life are are
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: still the best? Have a family, uh, do do things,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: do things with them, work with your hands, all these
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: all these good things which I'm not just going to
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: articulate here because that's boring.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: But yeah, all the all the good stuff. Yeah, you
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: said that you don't want articulate them. And that's a
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: sad place to be though, Gabriel, because you are right,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: everybody wants to stop and look at the co accident
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: on the side of the road. It's more exciting to
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: doom scroll. But when you actually talk about the things
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: that actually improve your life, like privacy and growing food, wi.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: My wife grows a ton of food. Yeah, at our house,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: and we certainly try and walk the talk across across
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: the board. But it is also a balancing act, you know,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: it's about choosing your battles.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but are those heirloom seats? And you know, aren't
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: you worried about the chemtrails?
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: And I mean there aren't any. I mean, so we'll
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: hold on, hold on. So just as you gotta understand
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: the geography. So I'm at the bottom tip of the
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Affrin continent. There's no reason for aeroplanes commercially to fly
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: at altitude. They're either coming in for landing or taking off.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know that South Africa, every aspect of it,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: is owned by the powers that be and the diamond
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: and gold mining industries. And you have basically no freedom
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: at all in any second of your life as long
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: as you are within the borders of South Africa. Let
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: me make an hour long video and put it on
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: bit shoot so that you can understand just how unfree
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: you are.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: That she's exy, but you would watch that, dude, Buthoot
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: is rubbish. Still, I can't understand how it became so popular.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, the actual platform itself is horrible to use.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Well, if you spell it out, by the way, it's
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: be it h that's the first that's the first letters.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: So I think maybe it was a joke. I got
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: off of Bitchoot. It just wasn't working for me as
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: a content creator, so I just kind of planted my
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: flag there with one video and kissed goodbye. But yeah, bitchoot,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: you know, there's there's some rabbit holes people have gone
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: down and bitchooed for sure, So I'll at least give
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: it that.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, And rumble is also rubbish. It's just a mission
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: to work with. I hate rumble. I don't I don't
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: have any I don't upload any videos there.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I mean here. Here's here's the important thing
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: about the video platforms also, and a lot of social media.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: It's a network effect. That's the that's the main value
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: of these things. YouTube is valuable because it has a
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: huge network effect. Sure, are they doing amazing things to
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: compress their videos make them accessible all around the world.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: There's some magic that happens there, but at the end
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: of the day, it's the network effect that is the reason.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: And so I'll get people on Twitter and they say, oh,
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: you know, why aren't you on Noster, this decentralized messaging protocol,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Like there's seven thousand people in the world on there, Like,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: what am I going to do on there?
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Bitcoin maximalists, I've got it installed. Do you say Noster?
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's I think that's how the greed
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: uplond pronunciation. But I know you have a problem with
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: the greed upon pronunciations.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: So I've got it installed. In fact, I don't think
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: it's called NOSTA. I think it's called Primal to something.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Right, So Noster's the protocol. Primal is one of the
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: apps that makes it easy to access that protocol. But yeah,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: this is boyeah it's junk. Well here's the thing, Like
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: you go into the tech of that. I recently had
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: a guy on my show. I have a lot of
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Bitcoin connections, those sorts of people, and you go into
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: the tech. I'm like, this is you know, it's fabulous.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: It's a fabulous, fabulously architected structure. I don't want to
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: use it, and nobody else wants to use it because
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Twitter is just a lot more easy, and that's where
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: everybody is. Most importantly, that's where everybody is. So this
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: is one of those things where we have to be
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: opportunistic about things and if you're really trying to solve
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: problems for people. I know somebody who's working on this
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: crazy private messaging app which you know, no identifiers, all
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: the good stuff, but I don't think anybody's going to
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: use it because it's not going to be convenient, it's
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: not going to have the network effect, it's never going
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: to take off. And so you know, we do have
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: to live in the real world at the end of
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: the day. And why I appreciate the tech, I do
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: think that there are other things people should consider, especially
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: the techi people. You always have to have in mind
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: more than just the tech, because there's more things that
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: go on when somebody selects one software, one website versus another.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: I think ultimately what you're saying is that we all
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: need to have no values. Yah sale, Yeah, let's just
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: move all to the let's move to the big platforms.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Follow me on YouTube, absolutely.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: But I mean you're all right, nobody uses some of
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: these super esoteric social media The ideas are good, but
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: ultimately you also want to get traction. You could be
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: the ultimate, the ultimate privacy guy and be on an
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: island in the middle of nowhere and have no internetcativity,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: connectivity at all, but nobody will ever know about you,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: and you'll never get your message out.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: If you want to help people with privacy and sovereignty,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: become fabulously wealthy by participating in probably traditional finance and
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: all the regular stuff, and then build an amazing platform
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: where you choose the values and you're the you know,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: you're the philosopher king, and we can follow your lead
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: and all that good stuff. Decentralization I don't think can
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: lead to a revolution. I don't think it's capable of
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: overturning anyway. We'll get some other stuff there, But I
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: think that's what you want to do if you really
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: want to change the world, become fabulously wealthy, become powerful,
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: and all the traditional ways of doing so, and then
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: do better in your turn.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I see what you did there. You very sneakily
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: invoked Plato. So go live in a cave. If you
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: want to be completely private, go in.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: The cave, enjoy the images in front of you. Realize
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: that perception is reality. Why do we have to know
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: the underlying reality? I mean, that's a lot less fun.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Remember the guy in the Matrix. He's like, I don't
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: care if this is fake, the steak is fake, I
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: just want to enjoy it, So I mean the.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Sure, Yes, you're right. Wow, I forgot about that. I'lmost
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: actually watched that again.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Well, The Matrix is a great film. Obviously, that's clearly
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: a reference to Plato's Cave, where, of course in Plato's cave,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: people are looking at all these shadows on the wall
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: and they assume that's the reality, and only once they
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: leave the cave do they see the real world, and
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: they're just overwhelmed by the actual reality. And this ties
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: into Plato's ideas of the forms and such, where there's
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: this sub substrate of reality. But you know, at the end,
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: the most unhappy people I know are people who have
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: gone into philosophy. Yes, so there's there's also something to think.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Was it from Ecclesiastes where much wisdom is much grief?
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: And he who increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. So there is
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: something to that. And I think the people who are
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: just absorbed in their minds and thinking through also high
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: IQ people. Very unhappy people I find in many cases,
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: and they have all these all these mental issues and
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: they get depressed and all the rest. Important to go
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: back to your a little bit of your your base
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: human nature in a lot of cases.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: So the unhappiest people are the philosophers and the most
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: boring of the accountants.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: There you go, yeah, No, I mean, but I think
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: high IQ people, people who are red pilled, they like
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: to judge judge people, and I think I don't think
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: they're wrong to. But at the same time, the person
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: who's going to doing the nine to five and just
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: working at basic job has no idea about vaccine hesitant
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: vaccine hesitancy and all the rest. I think that person,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: you could argue, is having more getting more fulfillment out
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: of life moments and moment than you are with your
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: you know, sitting I'm above judging people and just having
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: incredible self doubt and maybe some depression and feeling isolated
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: from everybody because they don't understand your ideas and all
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: the rest. So yeah, I'm yeah, I'm at a point
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: where I'm not giving suggestions here, just kind of reflecting
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: on k nature.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, you mentioned iq I just in
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: a pretty segue there for a second, because I had
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: this discussion about a week ago with a few people actually,
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: and I am of the opinion that an IQ test
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: is really just a test to see how high you
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: score in an IQ test.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about let's go down the rabbit hole
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: and red pill IQ tests and how incorrect they are
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't actually measure intelligence and it was created
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: by you genicists, and we shouldn't talk about IQ whatsoever.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Now we're kind of getting back into.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: It was a Frenchman, wasn't it that it was a
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: French guy who developed it back in the day.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: I think, well, But but then of course I want
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: to say a Q. Just we know that people, some
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: people are more intelligent than others, and that that is
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: a heritable thing as well. So just whatever we mean
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: by intelligence, I guess the more intelligent you are, I
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: find that people like that tend to be prone to depression,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: unhappiness and and all the rest. And that's mostly because
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: they are and they also undercut themselves quite a lot.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's it's yeah, anyway, just wish we
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: talk about with that.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Just creaky. I want to I want to come in
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: for the final LEB, but I just want to ask
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: you your opinion on AI and privacy.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so we talk a lot about AI. In fact,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: I'm looking on my website here Escape the Technocracy dot com.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: We have an AI resistance course, and AI is obviously
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: a very useful tool. I use it a lot for art,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: and you know whether or not it's yeah, I know,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: you have an entire show on this is art art.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: But when I'm looking at the AI art on my website,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: I think it looks really good. I think most people
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: are like, wow, that's that's awesome. It took me twenty
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: seconds to make. I'm not capable of doing this myself.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: So it does increase your productivity massively. It can help
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: you start a business where previously you didn't have a business. Obviously,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: I'm using this all the time to answer questions. It's
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: a lot better than the forum posts where you search
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: something on your search engine that you go to a
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: forum and then the first answer is, oh, you should
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: ask that on a search engine, Like that's the first answer,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: very unhelpful. So AI is very helpful at troubleshooting all
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: kinds of technical problems. It can write for you. We
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: actually use a combination a lot of times for some
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: of our articles. We have AI kind of spruce up
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: a certain idea or a certain style to it, so
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: you can use it as a companion in a very
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: powerful way. Big proponent of AI simply because it's not
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: going anywhere. We can't turn off the switch, so it's
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: with us, and so if you're not keeping up with it,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: you're falling behind at this point. Now, the privacy implications
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: obviously this is the big tech extraordinary product because now
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: we're typing all sorts of personal things into AI and
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: with chat GPT for example, there you know it's a
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: black box. You've type in something. They're just scooping up
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. You add your PDF of your medical test.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: They're scooping up all that stuff. What do they do
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: with it? Well, essentially whatever they want. So obviously there's
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: privacy implications to that. I've seen a lot of people,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: by the way, Jeremy completely disregard privacy. This is this
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: is the last stop of privacy for them, because they're like, yeah,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: I have my AI assistant, I have my open claw
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: bought which has entire control over every aspect of my computer.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: I don't recommend that, by the way, but they've said
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: this is what I want. I want productivity. I want
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: Jarvis from iron Man. They need to have access to
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: all my thoughts, all my images, everything, because I want
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: to be you know, I want to have a giant business.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: I want to be super productive. I want it to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: be monitoring every aspect of my health and my life.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: So this is their last stop on the train of privacy.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of people do that. By the way,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not at that point. Just so people know. So
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: privacy and AI, if you want to get started, I
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: would recommend a service. Well, you can self host AI.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: That's something you can do. You can download something like
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: GPT for all and you can run whatever local model
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: that your computer can run. If you have a crappy
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: computer then it's not going to go too far, but
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: you should absolutely give it a try. This is downloading
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: AI onto your computer so I can turn off my
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Internet and it's still working. It's the entire large language
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: model on your computer, something like GPT for all. Also
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: o Lama, you can kind of get started with that.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Other than that, I like a service I have it
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: pulled up here called the Venus dot AI. Depending which
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: model you're using, they're running it on their own models,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: so it's not quirrying some big tech service. So that's
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: another fairly private way of using AI. And then I
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: also like a service called Nanogpt. Nanogpt I know the
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: guy who does nanogpt. You're basically accessing all the big
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: tech models, so you can test them all out through
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: an intermediary, and you can pay this intermediary nanogpt. You
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: top it up. You don't have like a monthly account.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: You can top it up. You can pay it with
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: privacy crypto. You can test all the models, you can
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: use all the amazing text models, coding models. I could
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: create you a website Jeremy in three minutes actually thirty seconds,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: and it'll look awesome. Great way to have website, sovereignties,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: to have a code code in HTM myl website. You
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: can make awesome images. You can also create songs. I
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: now reply to people sometimes with an AI song and
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: it's like it's perfect, it's actually quite incredible. So you
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: can do all these things through an intermediary. It's not
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: private in the sense you're still sending this information to chats, GPT,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: to Google, Gemini or what have you, but at least
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: it's not in your name and you've paid for that
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: in a private way. And nanogpt does all kinds of
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: interesting things, like it marks all of the data that
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: they send along to these companies as medically sensitive. So
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: there's some interesting things happening. If you want to test
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: out the full suite of things, try nanogpt. Just don't
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: do private kind of personal stuff on nanogpt, at least
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: to start. So you can play around, and I would
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: encourage people to play around with all these models. You
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: can do it in a fairly private way, you can
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: do it in a fairly anonymous way. But ultimately, if
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: you really wanted to take advantage of these tools, you
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: don't have enough RAM on your computer to use the
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: best ones. They've eaten up the entire RAM market. RAM
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: is like three times more expensive than it was a
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: here ago. So again following kind of a theme of
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: this discussion, when you want the best stuff, we're going
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: to be trudging back to big tech or the ultimate,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: the ultimate version of these things, and we want to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: use it sometimes, not always, sometimes for certain things in
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: certain cases.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: When I was on your podcast, I think we spoke
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: about CARGI that's what I use for searching the Internet.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: I don't use Google or Brave or what's the jendex.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: I use Cargi dot com and it's a private search engine.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: And for what it's worth, they say that all your
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: searches are held within a private so in other words,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: they don't track, they don't track and trace. I don't
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: know if that's true. I'm sure somebody will say, well,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: well they're just saying that, but have a look. Cargi
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: dot com is what I use, and the attached AI
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: l l M that comes with that account that you
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: set up is their own, and so that's what I use.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: I don't use GPT or Claude or whatever, but they
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: do have those models as part of the suite you
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: can select.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. I've been meaning to go more into Cargi.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: That's k A g I. Yes, And this is a
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: great example of how sometimes when you get into the
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: privacy ecosystem, kind of the alternative ecosystem, you can get
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: better results. The reason why Caggi search is so good
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: and in your view, better than Google is because it's
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: it's a metasis blocking. It's a metasis, right, and it's
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: it's finding, not what the big tech juggernauts wants you
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: to see, but it's actually doing its shop of finding
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: what you know, it thinks you would like to see.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: So it can completely remove all the top search results.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: It can completely remove the big, the big conglomerate news
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: website results, and in doing so it can it can
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: get you do some indie websites where you can potentially
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: get closer to the truth. So it's a good example
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: of an alternative tech platform that can do better than
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: the big tech and that's why we want to use both.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: They actually have an option open quickly called small Web,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: and so you can do a search. I don't know
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: if you're on CARGI at the moment, but you can
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: do a search and then you can select small Web.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: You turn that on, and what it will do is
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: it'll they use their own terminology, but they say basically,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: they'll find the other side of the internet another, so
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: they flip the entire thing around so that you'll find
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: the smallest websites or the most independent websites that you
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: otherwise won't find. You will eventually find them on Google,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: but you've got to go like fifty sixty pages in
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: and nobody does that, and that's what they will try
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: and do they'll try and bring those to the front.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: If you turn that option on, which is very very interesting,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: you get you get fascinating results.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Right yeah. The small web, the simple web. This was basically,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: you know, a return to the old a lot of
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: times HTML style websites where they're not promoting anything. It's
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: not like a million ads in your face. So sign
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: up for our newsletter these sorts of things, and I
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: give for that exactly. You look at these websites and
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh wow, what's going on here? But you know,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: it's a different side of the Internet. It's not curated,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: politically correct, you know, trying to get your attention, like
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: some of these news websites I go to today, I'm
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: just like trying to you know. It's a bombardment of stuff.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: It's sexual content. Even if it's like a big tech platform.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: It's doing everything with the assistance of their literal psychologists
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: who are advising them on these websites to distract you
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: and prevents you from actually doing what your brain is
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: best at.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: I had a look to see at what the user
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: base is and it's very small. I think it's like
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: between one hundred and two hundred thousand people in the world,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: but because you are paying to use it. I don't
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: think they cared too much about size. They care about quality,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: which is very evident if you use CARGI and I
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: wanted to actually interview them to chat about their whole ethos,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: and they said no, they don't do interviews.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Okay, well that kind of rules out. I
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: thought they were on an interview with somebody I know,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: so maybe.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: We can or maybe they saw my website.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I think they saw your holocaust denying vaccine hesitant Satanist
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: website and they're like, yeah, we're we're not going on
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: term warfare.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Just by the way you mentioned you use AI to
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: generate art. I also do for my podcast because it's
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: much quicker and you can you can train it to
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: be consistent to some degree. I mean, it's still fairly
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: hit and miss, but it does an amazing job. If
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: you combine it with photoshop, I say photoshop. I don't
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: use Photoshop, I don't use in your Derby products, but
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: I just say photoshop because it's the easiest way too.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: It's like saying Google. So I edit the images and
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: I play with them a little bit, and you're right,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: you can. You can get a lot done in like
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: five minutes.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: Have a We actually have a course and we do
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: make video games using AI. My colleague, my my companion
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: in our Escape the Technocracy brand. Every bit is technologically
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: savvy and much more so than I am. He's He'll
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: just I'll wake up one day and it's like, oh, yeah,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: here's the video game that I've made using AI. The coding,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: the the art. And this is a thing where people
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: say AI is taking jobs, and there's obviously true to that.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: At the same time, you were able to make your
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: own video game, which you know, if you're Ubisoft that
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: requires a team of ten thousand people to make a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: video you can make one yourself. So it's also creating
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: new jobs, new opportunities for people. If you have your
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: head in the ground, you don't want to touch AI,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: you think it's demonic or what have you, I would
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: really reconsider some of that stuff because you're absolutely going
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: to be left behind. It's a tool, and it's a tool, right,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: It's a tool, and there's a lot of really cool
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: things that you can do with A You can do
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: it in a private way, you can do it in
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: a sovereign way. And you can actually use it to
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: enhance your privacy. That's one thing we talk about in
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: our AI resistance courses. I can feed my locally hosted
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: AI my text, and I say, strip out the fingerprint,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: so I have no text fingerprint anymore. It can't reveal
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: me by my writing patterns, and it can do stuff
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: like that. It can generate aliases for you. It can
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: generate realistic looking houses that you could put on your
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: website to say, hey, you know I live in this,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: except it's an AI generated image. It can do all
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: sorts of radical privacy related things as well, So don't
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: sleep on the tool.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: I was going to say now that I also have
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: a local AI app on my computer called Whisper, So
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: you download it and then you can download models language
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: models for it. And the reason why I'd do that
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: is because it helps me create transcripts for my podcast.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: And it's as you were talking about earlier, it's on
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: my machine.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: Whisper is one of these tools where you realize I
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: can on my own computer just strip the transcript of
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: any videos and now I could use another AI to
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: turn that into an article or do research for me.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: Or here's one thing you can do with a fully
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: agentic AI such as Openclaw. This is what I did
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: for a live event we were doing teaching people. I said, okay, look,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: go on the internet, find all of the videos for
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: this particular person when they talk about Israel, for example,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: and create a montage. And that agentic AI has the
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: ability to search the Internet to download the software that
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: could download these videos on YouTube, to transcribe them using Whisper,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: to find these sections where this person's talking about Israel,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: then to combine them and create a video using video
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: editing software on that computer. It created a twenty minute
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: montage for me of these particular videos overnight while I
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: was sleeping. So there's a lot of powerful things that
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: you can do, which is why I say don't sleep
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: on AI. If John Connor was alive today preparing for SKYNA,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: he would be learning how to use his own locally
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: hosted AI, because that's the only way that he would
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: be able to defeat Skye.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: I've got, well, I will have in two months time.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: I'll have two boys, and I know that their future
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: is going to have AI in it, and it would
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: be absolutely moronic of me to try and pretend that
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: I don't want anything to do with AI.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: My main thing about digital privacy and sovereignty is we
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: want to understand the tools. We don't want to live
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: in the tech realm, but we want to have a
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: certain text having this, and we want to be able
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: to take the big tech systems out there, whether that's
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: a Lenovo computer, whether that is drop Box, some of
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: these things, take some of the big tech options and
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: hijack them with our own knowledge. That's the cipherpunk aspect,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: that's the cipher punk mentality is understand the tech, don't
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: be afraid of it, don't fear it, but learn how
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: it works so that you can hijack it. Maybe you
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: can find some alternatives and you can use it to
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: better your life, because we are living in a technological
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: age until things change, and we would be literally undercutting
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: our very existence if we didn't make ourselves aware of
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: some of these tools.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, how can I follow you? You or your work?
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Check out the free podcast. Search for Escape the Technocracy
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: on your podcast feed YouTube channel as well Escape the Technocracy.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: I think you'll find what we're about once you start
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: listening to the show.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, it's that easy, all right? Well then, Gabriel Custodi. Yet,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: thank you for joining me in the strangers
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Don't don't My pleasure