Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Ron Alexenburg

Transcript

Ron Alexenburg · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Bob Left Sense podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: My guest today is legendary record executive Ron Alexenberg. Ron,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: what was your first gig in the music business?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: You know, working in a warehouse.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Well, how'd you get the job?
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to be a professional bowler, so I was.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: And a buddy of mine's dad— Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You were a professional bowler?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: At 16 years of age, yes.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know, bowling used to be on TV. It
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: used to be a big deal.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I was on TV. I was on it at Teen Pinners,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: and you'll get a kick out of this, on my
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: bar mitzvah.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I bowled on television where I couldn't cash the check.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I had to donate it. So I donated it to
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Southside Hebrew Congregation. And years later, I went back there.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: It was a Methodist church. but the backboard that they
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: dedicated to me was still up on the wall.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: How good a bowler were you? I was pretty good.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I was professional.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: The obvious question, you ever bowled 300?
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so if you bowled 300, is that basically about
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: how the lanes are oiled?
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Then, in those days, it was different than it is now.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Now it's lacquer, shellac, everything is the same no matter
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: where you go. Then it was wood with lacquer, and
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: you had to play the boards. You had to learn.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: And my father went from being Al Capone's meat butcher
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: to the bowling business. So I was bowling 50, 60
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: games a week and going to school and emptying the jukebox.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: So that's how I got my love of music.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, so your father
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: was Al Capone's butcher. South side of Chicago, Harper Meat Market.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: And so can you tell us any more about Al Capone?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Me, no, no. But I did ask my dad how
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: it started, if you'd like to hear that. Yes. He
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: came in with two guys two days before Christmas, and
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: he asked my father if he could make a crown roast,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: which was, you know, they take the lamb chops or
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: pork chops and put them in a circle, put sausage.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: He said, are you a kosher butcher? My father says, no.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: He says, well, can you make me a Christmas dinner?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And walked out. So my dad said, yeah, okay. And
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: he made the dinner. And that day, around 5 o'clock,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: a lady comes in with a baby in her arms,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And she says, I have no money. I have no food.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: My baby's starving. Can you give me some food? My
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: dad goes, gets whatever, a pound of chopped meat, hands
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: it to her. She pulls out a badge and says,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: you can't do that. Locks him up. Meantime, his Christmas
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: dinner is in the cooler. Had to close the butcher store.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: They put a note in the window. If you want Max,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: God rest his soul, he's at the 54th Street Police Station. Well,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Capone sends his guy. It's a story my dad's telling me.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: And Alphonse says, no, he walks in. They say, oh, Alphonse,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: you came to wish us a Merry Christmas? No, I
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: came to get my butcher out. He's got my Christmas
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: dinner locked up. And that's how it all started. And,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: you know, I had a relationship with my dad that
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I cherish every minute. And he passed right in front
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: of me at 80 years of age. And he did
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: get to be the grandfather he wanted to be. But how,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: to answer your question, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, you
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: got a lot of good stuff I want to get into.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: How did he get into the bowling alley business? There
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: was a guy named Neeson Harris who started a little
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: company called Revlon. And they were out in Skokie. That's
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: where my parents were living. And Orchard Twin was the
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Jewish ghetto. And they built a bowling alley. And he
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: asked my dad if he would help him out. My
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: father said, you know, the butcher business is not for
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: me anymore. It's very difficult. Skokie is difficult. If you
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: remember the Skokie time when the Nazis, neo-Nazis. Yeah, I
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: know you do. My mother called me. I was living
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: in Chicago and on Lakeshore Drive. And she says, you
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: better get over here. Your dad's about to go with
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: a baseball bat. Okay. He was going to stand there.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: And I said, Mom, I'm supposed to be in New York.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I moved to New York. Better stick around. So, bowling alley.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: There weren't too many Jewish bowlers, but there were a
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: lot of B'nai B'rith leagues. And here I am, a
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: young kid, bowling. They took me on the road with them,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: bowling in tournaments, bowling for Ham's Beer. I wasn't old
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: enough to drink beer, but I had the shirt on.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And then the one that got my career going was
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Sino & Sons was a tuxedo. And they wanted me
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: to bowl with a cummerbund. And it's kind of hard
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: if you don't know anything about bowling, bending over with
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a cummerbund on. And we were in a tournament, and
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I needed three strikes. If I get three strikes, we
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: win the tournament. Here I am, the anchorman. These guys
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: are all older than me, 40, 50 years of age.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I struck out, and that started it. So I didn't
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: want to be a professional bowler when Carmen Salvino took
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: me to two places, Dallas, Texas, on a train. Shreveport, Louisiana,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Bossier City.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, I want to stop here. We're going to get
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: back to you. Your parents, they born in the old
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: country or in America? My mother born in.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: My father was born in Russia, and my mother was
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: born in Canada, so Toronto.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So how did they meet?
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: You're good. My mom and dad were at a dance
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: in Chicago, and my mother, I believe, was engaged to somebody,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: and my father... was Dapper Dan and he went up
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: to her and said, I'd like to have a dance.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: They danced. And she said, I just want you to
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: know I'm engaged. He says, yeah, that's okay. And later
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: on they got married and they were married for 48 years.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I've got them beat now by a many. My wife
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: and I just did our 61st wedding anniversary. And this
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: business is a little Meshuggah as they say. Um, but, uh,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: it was just a wonderful relationship. Uh, how they raised
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: me on the south side of Chicago. And when my
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: dad said to me, what are you going to be?
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: What are you going to do? You're playing golf. You're
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: shooting pool. Willie Moscone taught me how to shoot pool
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: right-handed and left-handed.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: How do you know Willie Moscone?
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Because he was setting up the pool tables in my
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: father's bowling alley. Okay, he was on the Brunswick staff.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: And he gave me, which I wish I still had,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: a balabushka. which is the number one pool cue of
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: all time. And, well, screw it off, put it together.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: He says, if you're going to go to Bensinger's and
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: shoot pool, you start out right-handed. Learn how to play
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: both hands, left-handed, because that's when the money comes in.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: So there I am, hustling pool at Bensinger's. And that's
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: why the movie The Hustler and I get along pretty good,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: you know? Okay, a couple of things. How did both
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: your parents end up in Chicago? My dad became a
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: butcher in Davenport, Iowa. Okay, I got to know, do
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: you know how the Jews end up in Davenport, Iowa?
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Are there any Jews in Davenport, Iowa? He was working
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: for the National Tea Company, Bob. Okay. And he had
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: a knack with a knife on how to cut up
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: a chicken, cut up a turkey. And the National Tea
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Company was like Jewel, Kroger, you know, which it is now.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And they had the main office in Chicago.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: And my mother was already in Chicago, living there with
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: her parents. My grandfather, God rest his soul, started a
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: little diamond company called I. Harrison's Son, which became the
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: American Jewish tradition of jewelers in Chicago. And he wanted
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: to take me to Antwerp, to the diamond mines, but
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I was stupid enough not to go. It would have
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: been a lifetime experience. But that's how I grew up.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: So how did your father get from Davenport to Chicago?
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Because the National Tea Company was based in Chicago.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: And during the war, what did your father do?
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Butcher.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Okay. So you talk about these two trips to Shreveport
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and the other location.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I talk about? No, no.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I interrupted you. You were talking about two trips you
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: went on, one to Shreveport, one to another location.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. No, I was trying to answer your
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: original question on how I got in the record business. Yeah, yeah.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: That's who we are. So my father had 78s, and
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I would listen and listen and listen. And when he
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: got in the bowling alley business, here came the guys
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: emptying the jute boxes. And they were throwing the 45s away.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going, whoa, whoa, whoa. Can I have those? And
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I got them. I took them home. Little did I
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: know I'd be listening to B-sides. loved every minute of it.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: And that's how I developed it. And I was playing softball.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I was a pretty good athlete. And there was a guy, shortstop,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: great guy named Lenny Garmisa. Lenny Garmisa owned an independent
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: record distributor on Michigan Avenue in Chicago, right next to VJ. Okay.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: And I said, gee, you know, college, I wanted to
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: be a lawyer. My dad wanted me to be a
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: criminal lawyer. I didn't like it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And I had enough of school and bowling, hang out
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: with older people, meeting a lot of very nice people,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: women included, Hugh Hefner included, Chicago, you know, Playboy, the
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: whole stop. So I asked Lenny for a job. He said,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: the only job I have for you is in the warehouse. Yeah, fine.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So I had won $ 3, 000 in a bowling tournament at
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: 16 years of age. There was a Corvette, a 57
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Corvette in a window for $ 29. 95. I went with my dad.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I said, dad, I'm going to buy this car. 57 Corvette,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: two tops. I walk into Merritt Chevrolet. I can't remember
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: what I had for breakfast, but I can remember this.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: I walk in. There it is on the showroom. I
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: want to buy it. I hand the man the check.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: And I said, can you do me a favor? Can
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you service the car? And can you give me the $ 5?
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Because it was $ 29. 95. And he said, what? I said,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I got to put gas in the car. My dad
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: doesn't want me to give me any money. He says,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: you don't even have a driver's license. How are you
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: going to get? That was my first purchase. Got in
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: the Corvette, drove to Michigan Avenue, walked in. Eight o'clock
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that morning, there was two people you know very well.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Brian Hyland.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Dusty Springfield.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Standing back to back. I walk in.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, what year are we in? 67. Okay.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I walk in, eight o'clock, early on time, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: have to. And- they said, who are you? I said,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I'm Ronald Luxemburg. What do you do here? And I
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: had heard the key word was promotion. I wasn't going
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: to tell them I'm working in a warehouse like a schlub.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: You know, here I am. Oh, we have this dub.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Would you mind listening to it? So I put it on.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Lenny's coming down the steps. He says, Rod, what are
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: you doing? I'd like to introduce you to Brian Hyland. Yeah,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I know. I have appointments with them. Okay. Wishing and
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: hoping and thinking.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, what a great record.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That started it. And Lenny then, after they left,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: called me upstairs. And he said, you don't talk to
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: the artists. You're in a warehouse. You know that? I said, Lenny,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: did I do anything wrong? He says, no, they really
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: liked you. By the way, there's a guy coming in
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: here in a couple of hours named Lou Adler. And
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I'd like you to meet him.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I go up to his office.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I walk in.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: There's Lou Adler. And he says, what do you do here?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I look over to Lenny.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I said, what do I do?
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: You know, he's a promotion man, okay? So he says,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you're a promotion man. He says, you want to take
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: this over to WLS, second most powerful radio station, as
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: you know, in the United States, WABC in New York,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: WLS in Chicago. So he says to me, you take
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: this over there and get it on the radio. You'll
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: get a nickel spiff. I get in my Corvette over
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: to WLS. I got dirty jeans and a T-shirt on
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: because I've been working in the warehouse. I walk into
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: a table like this. There's all the jocks and the
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: program directors sitting around. I said, Gene Taylor, please. He said,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: who are you? I said, my name is Ronald Luxemburg.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I work at Garmisa Distributing. Oh, you work for Lenny.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: He's a good guy. I'm going, yeah, he's terrific. What
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: do you want? He asked me to bring this to you.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: He said, is it a hit? I did listen to it.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I think it's great. He said, are
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: you a gambler?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Shooting pool, bowling, you know. I was a kid growing up.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I'm a gambler.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: He says, if I put this on the radio, second
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: most powerful radio station in the United States, and the
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: phones don't light up, do you agree never to come
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: back here again? Bob, I swear. And I go, yeah, sure.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: I get in my car, make a right-hand turn on
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Michigan Avenue. And it's in this vein right here. All
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: the leaves are brown. California dreaming. And I never wanted
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: to live here. And now here I am. So that
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: started it. And when I heard something on the radio
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: that I promoted, that got me crazy. And I went
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: back into the eyes. I said, I got to do promotion.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Promotion.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: He said, well, there's this guy, Bobby Goldsboro. Go talk
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: to him. Okay. Me, Japanese boy. And it went on.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Terry Stafford. All those older records, you know. I wore
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: this today in honor of you, okay?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Well, we're audio only, so describe it.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Well, this is a shirt that was given to somebody
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: who I wish could be here to say and give
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: you a hug, Don Whittemore. Don, yeah. This was given
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: to him by Elvis. It's one of Elvis's shirts, and
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I wore it. He gave it to me. I've never
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: wore it, and I gave it here because it says
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: rock and roll, rock and roll all over it. And
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I love how you stick with rock and roll, okay?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: But I hope we can talk about the frustration I'm
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: having with the Hall of Fame and all the rest
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: of it. Well, let's just go there. What's your frustration? Well,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: let's see. It took Neil Sadaka to die so that
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Elton John could write a letter. It took my dear
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: friend to this day, Tommy James. He's only sold 100
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: million records. And Connie Francis. And we could go down
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: the list of names of people. But Many years ago,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: when a guy graduated Syracuse, who I like a lot,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: John Sykes.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Of course, you know. I just tried to call him
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: this morning to let him know we're doing our thing.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I think he's in New York. And he was a
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: college rep. And I just, Bob, it is so frustrating
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: to see people go in there that don't belong in there.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: And they've asked me my thoughts. I said, change the
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: name to the Music Hall of Fame.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And I'll be there. Oh, yeah. Music Hall of Fame.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: And you continue to get me going in a positive way.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, boy, George, that whole thing was so special.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Okay? It's nothing to do whether you're a
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Jew or not. It's what he did and how he
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: did it. And, you know, my career, it's my 63rd
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: year in this business. And I miss the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I'm still involved. I still do what I want to
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: do when I want to do it, being a spoiled brat,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you know, and always spoiled. But the music business and
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: listening to music and discovering and signing bands that people
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: didn't want, okay? That was what you read in the
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Blow by Blow when Jeff Beck sat on that couch.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: That's all true. Thank you for acknowledging that. And many
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: other people that walked into my office, you know, I
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: laugh about a picture that's going to be going in
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: my book of Irving Azoff, you know, one of the
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: best managers I ever worked with and people. And yes,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I was at his wedding. And, you know, now he's
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: in the restaurant business. Why I just, you know, that's
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: one business that I was in for about an hour
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: and a half with Burt Bacharach in New York at
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: a steakhouse restaurant. Until I saw the bartender take $ 10
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: and put it in his pocket. And I said, it's
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: not for me. But, you know, the fund that I've had,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: and I'm in the midst, been in the midst for
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: three years of writing a book. And I can give
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: you the title, which I've given no one else, called
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: From the Warehouse to the Pet House.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the warehouse because this was in
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the days of independent distribution. Yes. And then really the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: end of independent was when Warner, when Branch, then it
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: really put a big dent in independent. But a lot
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: of people don't know those days. So the artist stopping
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: by the warehouse, was that something that happened on a
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: regular basis?
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And disc jockeys, too. I mean,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: when the magnificent Monty Hugh came from Los Angeles, a
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: real punk, and he parked his car in front of
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: the distributor because he wanted.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: To be discovered.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: He was going to work at WVON, which stood for
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Voice of Negroes, owned by the Chess family. I grew
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: up with Marshall Chess right next to me, Leonard Chess,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Phil Chess. He parked his car in front of the building,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: opened up the trunk, had watermelons, and he said, I've
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: come to claim you. And here I am. I'm coming out.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go, who are you? I'm the magnificent.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I'm the monocule. But the independent way, got to remember,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: VJ was right next door. Vivian and Jimmy, they had
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a little thing called the Beatles called Love Me Do
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: that people didn't really relate to. And I love rhythm
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: and blues. It's my thing. Okay. So the independent distributors
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: would take on African-American artists, blues artists, where the majors,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Would not. I mean, when I got to Columbia, okay,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: people were thinking Johnny Mathis was rhythm and blues because
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: he was African-American.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Wrong.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Okay. And that's when, thank God, God rest his soul, Clive,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about that, said to me, you know, you
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: have the number one, three, five, seven, and nine records
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: in the country on Columbia. You're the head of promotion,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: the biggest record company in the world. but I don't
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: like Epic Records. I said, so what? I don't either.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: They're on the 13th floor. I'm on the 12th floor
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: of the CBS building. He said, I want you to
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: take it over. I take it over. Bobby Vinton's okay.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Poco's okay. But the artists' relationships that I developed because
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: of the in distributor, they would come in, Reparata and
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: the Delrons.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, God.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: See, Bob, I'm telling you, it's great. And you know
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: all these. And I said to Bobby Goldsboro, where are you?
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Why did you blow off WLS? Well, I was with Reparata.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Where?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Where? you know, that answer. So Lou, I can't, when
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: World Artist Records, when Chad and Jeremy came or Terry
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Stafford came at Yesterday's Gone, it was independent label. Dunhill
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Records started as an independent label through independent distribution.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Mercury, Phillips, Smash, Fontana, all went through independent distribution, all state.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: There were no branches. You're right. Warner Brothers, started. However,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: so did Columbia, and Columbia had a catalog even in
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: those days, and that's what kept Columbia Records on top
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: of the heap. Warners was developing, and I told Mo Austin,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: God rest his soul, there's two guys I would have
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: worked for for nothing, him and Barry Gordy, okay? I mean,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: that was just my style, my taste, the music that
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I just totally loved. But independent distribution made the business.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Take a look at the characters.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Look at the characters.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I'm still friends with Artie Ripp, okay? And you look
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: at the labels that they had in those days that
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: were run by High Weiss, okay, whose son Barry has
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: been so successful. And I'll give you a funny, funny story.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: At Clive's last party here, Barry's there. He grew up
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: across the street from me. Okay, I got him his
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: first job in the record business as a college rep
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: in Cornell. And Barry's walking this way, hugs, all that.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: He says, I got to tell you something. He said,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: you were at Mike's Briss, right? Yeah. He's now going
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: to be running Jive Zamba. They reactivated the label. I said, good.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I got an artist for him. I mean, that's what
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: has kept me going. But the education that I got
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: was one day on a Saturday, Lenny Garmis says, everybody
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: show up here Saturday morning. Two tractor trailers in front
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: of the building. He said, you six empty that truck.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: You six empty that truck. Put all the records. Do
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: not open the boxes. Put them on the sidewalk. And
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: everybody that's going to come has to pay what they owe. Yeah,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: and has to pay for what they want to buy.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And I'm going, what's in the box? He said, just
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: don't open it. Well, curious George, I get on the truck.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: First thing I do is I open it. We saw
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: 30,000 albums go in seven hours. The album, red album cover,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Hard Day's Night. And I said, that's it.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: The soundtrack to the movie, because we distributed United Artist Records.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Independent distributor.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. If you didn't buy from your distributor, was there
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: another distributor in Chicago?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: That had your label? No. No. They would ship it.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Good question. They would ship it outside of Illinois up
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: to Milwaukee, and you could buy it from there if
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: your credit had run out. In other words, and you
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: didn't pay your bill, but you need the Bob Lefset's
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Album of the Week. up to Milwaukee, Radio Doctors. See,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I remembered it. That was the name of the company.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: And they would ship records up there. But yeah, but
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: independent distribution, independent promotion, different than the way those guys
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: were working, you know, at the radio stations. But I
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: was a local promotion man. There was four or five
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: of us working at Garmisa Distributor.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's assume you're Lou Adler, you're somebody else
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: with an independent label. If they had no promotion staff,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the promotion staff was in the distributor? The one person
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: that Lou had was his nephew, Marshall Blondstein, who really
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: broke the Carole King album. Okay, I hired Marshall in
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: a minute. He was good looking. He was a promotion man.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: You know promotion.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: There's certain guys, they can tell you today's Tuesday and
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: you wonder if they're telling you the truth. But the
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: ability to go to a radio station that was playing–
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: 60 records. And Tuesday night, they'd made their decision, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: you had to call Wednesday to find out if you
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: got the ad. You know how that is. But I
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: miss those days. And that Hard Day's Night album became
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: just a thing that I saw people buying it and
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: buying it and buying it. And independent distribution, right there
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: on Michigan Avenue, you had Allstate Distribution. They had the
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Atlantic label They had, and then next to it was
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: MS Distributing that had the Warner Brothers labels. We had Mercury, Smash, Phillips, Fontana.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: We had Musicor. You know, Gene Pitney. I mean, I
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: got to meet these artists that would come to Chicago.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: They would give you... Every bit of energy they could
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: give you, you know?
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: How long did you work there? I was there only
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: about a year.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Then what happened?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: I got a phone call from the regional vice president
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of Columbia Records, Don Van Gorp, wanted to meet me.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And he said, we're having a year-end meeting at the
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Sheridan Hotel. I'd like you to come and sit with
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: us and see what Columbia Records is all about. They're
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: looking to start a new label, Date Records. Did you
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: ever hear of Date Records? Of course. I thought it
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: was a tax write-off for CBS. So he says they're
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: looking to hire regional people. I had just gotten married,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: met my wife on a blind date on the phone.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: She was working for United Artists Records in New York,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: and I was in Chicago. I said, I've never been
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: to New York. Would you mind if I come in
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: New York on New Year's Eve, take you out? We'll
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: have dinner. Because we talked almost every day. And I
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: flew into New York on a blind date, and we've
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: been married 61 years later.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: So what happened is that the ability at Columbia, I
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: sat there and I watched Paul Simon come in and
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: promote Simon and Garfunkel. And then I saw Ray Conniff
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: come in, talk music, Percy Faith talk music. I loved
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: all that, right? But I'm a blues guy, jazz guy,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: rhythm and blues. That wasn't there. And he said to me,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: they're starting another label, Date Records. They've got an act
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: called Peaches and Herb. David Kapralek, who is the manager,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: was also the ex-head of A & R at Columbia
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: and He signed Sly and the Family Stone, okay? He
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: signed Aretha to Columbia and a bunch of others, Mathis
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: as well. I got to meet him. He was there.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And they said, why don't you join Date Records, do
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: a regional job? The regional job, I just got married,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: living on Lakeshore Drive, $ 185 a month apartment, wonderful. My son,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Regional was 18 states, Bob.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I was traveling everywhere. And because I had
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: a hit record on my hands, Peaches and Herb, I
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: got into Pittsburgh, and I got to meet all the
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: people at Itsy Klein, Travis Klein, Wham-O, all the radio stations, KHJ,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: John Rook. I was one of the few guys that
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: really got along with John Rook at KQV. All those stations.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Worked them all. 18 states. And then somebody who I
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: would love for you to have met interviewed Tom Noonan.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I knew Tom.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And he called me and he said, uh, I
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: want you to move to New York. I'm gone. What? Yeah.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I don't want to leave Chicago. Um, he said, well,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I'd like you to be the head of date records. Now,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: We had put out an awful lot of records that
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: didn't sell three copies. I can name them for you.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Distant Cousins, you know, on and on. So my wife,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: being an original New Yorker, I said, honey, how would
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: you like to move back? And it was the toughest
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: day of my life, leaving my parents. But I was young.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: I got in that car, and we drove from Chicago
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: to New York, took an apartment in Forest Hills. And
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I got on the subway and went in and took
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: over date records. And all of a sudden, about a
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: year later, I'm in Detroit with Tom Noonan, God rest
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: his soul. And he says to me, I just want
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: you to know I'm leaving.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: What?
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to go to work in Motown. What?
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Barney Ailis offered him the job at a marketing Motown.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: He always wanted to do that. He gets on the
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: phone in front of me, calls Clive, tells him he's
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: coming home and he's going to have to resign, and
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: recommended me to be Because I was Tom's assistant at Columbia,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the head of promotion. And that's how, you know, I
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: started off.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Okay. What's the key to a great promotion, man?
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy. The key to a great promotion person, men
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: and women, is stick-to-itiveness and creativity and honesty. All three
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: of those. Not easy.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Hyping.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Okay. You know, but loving music, knowing what you're presenting.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Don't just say this is my R & B record.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I'd fire you in five minutes. Don't say this is
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: my pop record. Bob, the one thing that I appreciate
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: about you amongst many, you don't categorize music. All music
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: is good, says Quincy Jones. Some is better than others.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: That's what it is. But the key to a good
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: promotion person was to believe. I had a record that nobody,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: we had a lot of records that nobody wanted. Black Betty,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Ram Jam.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Nobody wanted it. And I heard, oh, Black Betty, Bam-a-Lam,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Damn Thing Went Wild, Bam-a-Lam. And I had a promotion
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: man named Al Gerowitz, God rest his soul. And I
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: was about to turn the record down. And he came
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: in and he said, into my office in New York,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: this is the greatest record. I can get this. Hold on.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: You can get this played?
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Go get it played somewhere and tell me what the
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: response is. Well, he was very tied up in Connecticut.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: So he got it played. He's from Connecticut. And the
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: phones lit up. And he says, Ron, we got to
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: put this out. Arlene Quire from WOKY, she was on
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: the phone with me. I said, I'm going to play
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: you something over the phone. Tell me what you think.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: The minute she heard O Black Betty Bam Lam, she says,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: somebody called me from Connecticut and told me that record's
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: a hit. You have it? Same thing happened with Hanky
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Panky with me when Morris Levy, though, called all the
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: record companies and said, that's my record. Don't even go
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: near it. Okay? That's a great story that Tommy tells.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: But a good promotion person knows how to pay for
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: a meal. I often said to him many times, meeting
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: a person like yourself, I'll buy you half a sandwich.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: You play the record, I'll buy you the other half.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: And know the market. Know what you're up against. Know
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: the playlist. Know what the PD, MD, music was looking for.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Know what they want to add on. Know what they do.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: John Rook, a lot of people didn't like him. I did.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: But he taught me a big lesson. In KQV in Pittsburgh,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: as a promotion person, he said, do you know what
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I do? I said, yeah, you pick the records that
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: go on the air. He said, you don't have a
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: clue what I have to do here at this radio station.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And he sat with me and he showed me the jocks,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the Chuck Brinkmans, and all the people that he had
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: to work with and put up with their families and
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: their wives and the salaries and all of it at
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: radio and have them come to work and be exciting. OK,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I was spoiled because WLS was my training and the
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: relationship you could have did record hops. OK, something that
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: when I talk about record hops, people look at me
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: and they go, what? I did a commencement speech at
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the University of Illinois a bunch of years ago. And
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I said, OK, so now let me show you the
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: difference between a 48, a 78, a 45 and a
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: 33 and a 3rd. She said, let me pull out
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: my 45s. And the guy, you're pulling out a gun? No, man,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I'm pulling out the one with the big hole in
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: the middle. But a good promotion person.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Tell us about, not everybody knows, tell us about hops.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Well, record hops was a way that we used to
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: go and cater to the DJs and bring them an
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: artist and have them perform in a parking lot sometimes.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels in Detroit in a
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: bowling alley parking lot with Bob Crew, one of the
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: great producers of all time, standing next to me. And
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: he's going, they don't like this record. You know, I said,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: what do you mean, Bobby? He says, they don't like
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: this at XYZ and CKLW and Keener. I said, are
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: they here tonight? And he said, no. I said, if
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: you had them here tonight and they would see Mitch Ryder,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: they'd appreciate it. A promotion person had to pick you up,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: put you in a car, get you over there. That
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: was what they had to do to show the artist.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Record hops were a way of exposing music that was
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: not on the radio. It was a way. I took
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: the McCoys and from that years later signed Rick Derringer,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: God rest his soul. the all-American boy.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But I miss it. I mean, I would fly
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: in a single-wing plane with Clark Webber from WLS to
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: his record hops. They were getting paid. They were getting
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: an appearance. We would set it up, but they would
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: do a record hop. And it helped break artists.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Let's be very clear. So did the artist sing to tape?
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Did the artist not sing at all?
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, live.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Live.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Live. No, no, no. There was no lip syncing. And
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: it was live. And they would have, when Roland came
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: out with those first pianos, they would have that, you know,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: guitar players. It wasn't with, I'm trying to think while
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I'm talking to you, if I took any bands, other
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: than Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, he had a
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: self-contained band. The McCoys, they, Feldman, Goddard, Goldstein, there were
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: three guys. But I don't remember most of them was
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: like Bobby Goldsboro's and individuals doing record hops. Okay, so
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: let's assume you have a hop. How many people would come? Well,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: maybe as low as 50 and maybe as many as 300.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: But you wouldn't have thousands, I mean, because it was
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: done in parking lots. And was it more about impressing
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: the DJ or the audience?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Both.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Good questions. The DJ, I would never take anybody to
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: a record hop where the artist didn't shine. And they
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: would sell, we would sell 45s albums if they had albums.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Excuse me. But it was a way of exposing an artist.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: And they would do a lot of record hops. I mean,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: in Chicago, you would do Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, the same artist.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Within three days. One of the great record hops of
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: all time was in Milwaukee with Moby Grape. And it
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: was a nightmare. And Eddie Matthews, not the ballplayer, Eddie Matthews,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the promotion man, was the head of Mercury. And he
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: said to me, I have an artist that is going
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: to open up for Moby Grape in Milwaukee. Would you go?
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: And I was the local promotion man up in Milwaukee.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: We get up there. They were difficult, Moby Grape. They
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: were not really nice. They weren't talking nice. The priest
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: that wanted to introduce them, they were backstage going, come on, man.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: We're ready. Come on, come on, come on. You know,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going, oh, this is not going to work. So
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: we're driving back. I'm driving. Speeding, not realizing. Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: state line. Here come the gumball machine. Cop pulls me over.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: He says, you're speeding. I say, I'm sorry, officer. You know,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: he says, where were you? I said, Milwaukee. You know,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: we're in the record business. Oh, yeah? What's his name?
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Eddie Matthews. Eddie Matthews is the star of Third Basement.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: He says, really? That's really his name? Get out of
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: the car. Artist is sleeping in the back seat. I'm going, no, no, no.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: This is not going to happen. He wakes the artist up, Bob.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I can't make this up. He wakes the artist up
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: and he says, and what's your name? He says, Robin Hood.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: He says, that's it. You're all going to jail. That
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: was his name. That was the artist's name, Robin Hood.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Eddie Matthews, Robin Hood, and there's Ron just sitting there.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I had to call Mercury Records and say, they're going
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: to put these guys in jail. I called W-R-I-T-W-O-K-Y, told.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Them the story.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: I said, can you add the record, man? Can you
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: please put it on the playlist? It'll make it, you know,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: that was a promotion, man. You took a negative to
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: make it a positive.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Okay. Let's assume you're working for a bigger label. and
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the label's putting out a good number of records. What
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: we know is not all those records are hits. You
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: would go into a station, assuming the format, you know, applies.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Would you have to promote all the records?
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: You had a playlist, just like I would come to
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: you with a playlist. And I would sit there on
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Thursday and after looking at the charts, Billboard, Cashbox, Record World,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: and Clive would say to me, what's the priorities for
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: next week? And I never let him tell me what
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: they were. And we would pick three songs, one of three.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: We had one called Red Rubber Ball, Circle. And it
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: went on a whole bunch of stations, but I needed
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: the Midwest because the Circle was going in there. I
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: called my promotion man in Detroit and I said, Russ,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: what's the problem with Keener? Because if you didn't have Keener,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: you didn't have Handelman. Handelman bought the records. So he says, Ron,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: they don't like the record.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Here's what I want you to do. Pick me up
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: at the airport. I'll be in tomorrow. Because I always
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: like to go to Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago. Picks me up.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: We get in the car. Take me to a sporting
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: goods store. Take me to a sporting goods store. I
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: bought 25 Spauldings, took a pen, wrote on there with him,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Red Rubber Ball Circle Columbia Records. Went to Keener, opened
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: up the front door, threw all the balls on the floor.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: They're all rolling around. This guy, Paul Cannon, who had
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: an hourglass, he would turn an hourglass on. He was
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: a promotion man until Bob Crew smashed it one day
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and the sand went all over his desk. Red Rubber Ball,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Scotty Regan, disc jockey, picks up the ball and he says,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: how come we're not playing this record? These are all
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: how those records got played. When Bill Drake, the founder
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: of the Drake Chenault radio stations, and I had a
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: record called, which I know you probably met him and
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: liked it, you know, Arizona by Mark Lindsay. And the
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: record was top 10, but not going anywhere else because
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: all Drake Chenault stations were not playing it. And I said, Bill,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: how come you're not playing this record? He said, I
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: don't like it. I said, how many records are you
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: playing you don't like? He said, one or two. I said, good,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: here's one more. So it's basic logic that we had
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: to use as promotion men and women. And you could
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: go up against the toughest cats in the world, Paul
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Drews and all these guys on radio. They didn't want
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: to talk to me. I said, you want to talk
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: to me? I'm going over to CHP with a record
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: called When Will I See You Again. And I'm going
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: to get him to make it the pick of the week. Oh, Ron,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: can I hear it? Yeah, sure. You can hear it,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: but you can't have it. I mean, it was all
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: part of what you had to do.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: And at what point does the money in the Indies
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: come along?
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Well, you're talking to a guy that never hired him.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: And that surprises a lot of people. When Freddie DeCipio,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: who was the best that ever did it, came to me,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: And he said, you're not hiring independents. I said, I
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: have 46 men and women that depend upon this job.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: If they can't get it played, no one can. And
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: he looked at me. And there was a lot of
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: pressure because the Indies were controlling a lot of radio stations.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: But I was very fortunate, Bob. And I'm glad I'm
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: here sitting with you to tell you I had the
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: best staff in the business. Epic Records, Columbia Records, Infinity Records, handpicked, hired.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: They got it played. But indies came along, and they
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: had a way of doing business that I had no
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: part of.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: But an indie might say, if you don't pay me,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: I'm keeping your record off the radio.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: And guess who showed up? Me. right in front of
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: a program director who's governed by the FCC. Howard Stern
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: will tell you about a conversation he and I had
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: because you never took a nickel from anybody. You never
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: had to. You just had a big mouth and he
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: would tell you to, you know, get off. But no,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: if my people couldn't get it played, if I couldn't
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: get it played, you know, Bill Gavin was one of
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: the greatest motivators of promotion men and women. And yes,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I was Billboard's Man of the Year two years in
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: a row and Gavin Man of the Year three years
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: in a row. National promotion. But it's my staff. That's
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: what it was. The same thing in A & R.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: You know, we'll go to sign people. And I had
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: to put my job on the line to sign that
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: little black kid that nobody wanted called Michael Jackson. You
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: know that story.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Well, tell him.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Well, if you want me to, I will. There's certain
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: things I'm going to come back to you with because
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to finish a book. And people have called
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: me constantly, and you're the only one that can really
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: hear this, and asked me what I thought of the movie.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: And I gave you a standing ovation when you wrote it.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't like it. I put my job on the
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: line to sign Michael. Went to the Warwick Hotel, pulled
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: him out of a hotel room, room 305, when I
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: picked up the house phone. I said, Michael Jackson, please.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: He rang his room, and I said, my name is
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Ronald Lexenberg. And he says, I know who you are.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I said, you do? I'd like to meet you. He
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: came down with his awful father and Richard Aarons, a
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: lawyer from California. And we started to chat and talk.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: And I said, I just admire you're coming out to
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Long Island this weekend. And I'd like to bring my family,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: my young daughters. They were eight and five. And my
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: wife were fans. And something told me that I had
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: a question to ask the lawyer. Like, here's the question.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Are they available? And he said, they haven't been paid
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: a royalty in a while, Ron. I got on the phone,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: called Walter Dean, the head of business affairs. Didn't have
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: a phone in the car at the time. I went
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: to the house phone in the hotel. I said, don't
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: artists every six months have to get a statement? He goes, yeah,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: earned or unearned. Oh, And if they don't get it,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: he said, it's a breach. I took Michael to my office,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: 6 o'clock to midnight. I think my car is still
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: running that was sitting there on 56th Street. 12 o'clock. Michael,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: as you know, never ate too much. But I was hungry.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I hadn't even eaten dinner. And my buddy Leo owned
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: a Carnegie Deli. So I said, Leo, are you closing up?
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: What do you need? I said, I need a sandwich. Michael,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: what would you like? I eat anything. No, he didn't
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: eat anything. And we sat there and I could approve
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: up to a million dollars one time. I couldn't approve
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: a million and a million and a million, million dollars.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: So I said to this Richard Aarons, I called him
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: the next morning and I said, three albums firm, $ 333, 333. 33
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: as my offer. Really? Yeah. We have creative control. Really? Yeah.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Who'd you have in mind? Kenny Gamble, Leon Huff. We're
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: on fire. OJs, Billy Paul, Three Degrees, Teddy Pendergrass, Philadelphia International,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: on fire. Take them.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: So I get approval. Walter Yuttikoff calls me. This is Friday.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Deal's done. He says, Arthur Taylor, president of CBS, is
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: not going to approve your deal. I think you should
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: go talk to him. I said, Walter, you report to him.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I have nothing to do with him. He's the president
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: of CBS. He said, would you talk to him? Yeah,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: I'll talk to him. I get in the elevator, go
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: to the 35th floor, sit down, And he says, Ron,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Epic Records is on fire. Yes. We've taken it from
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: about $ 4 million to $ 300 million. Bunch of kids, pre-tax profit,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: $ 80 million or thereabouts. What can I do for you, Arthur?
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: He says, I'm not going to approve your deal. I said,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: my deal? He says, yeah, the Jacksons are a cartoon
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: act on CBS Saturday mornings. I swallowed, and I said,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: see that building next door? It's called ABC. Elton Rule
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Leonard Goldenson offered me the presidency of ABC. They don't
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: know that I don't want to move to California, so
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get them to buy Epic Records. I'm
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: out of here. I walked out of his office. Tony Martell,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: God rest his soul, was my guy. He said, Ron,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: your face is as red as a beet. I'm going, yeah,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: my blood pressure's probably up there. Had a car with
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: a driver. Drove me home. I walk in. My wife says,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Walter Yetnikoff has called here maybe five or six times.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: I call him. There were no cell phones. I called. Yeah.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: What did you say to Arthur Taylor? I says, real simple.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: It's real simple. We've proven by signing REO, proven by
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: signing Dan Fogelberg from Irving in 1972, the first two
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: acts he walks in with Two cassettes. I made both
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: of them. We sign bands that nobody wants, okay? Kansas, Boston, Meatloaf.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, what else do we have to do?
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: He says, Ron, he is the president of CBS. And
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I said to him the following. Has he ever been
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: to a radio station? Has he ever met an artist?
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: You deal with him, Walter, not me. Now, I get
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: off the phone. Rochelle looks at me and she said,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: you may have just cost yourself a job. I said,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: could be the best thing that ever happened to me, Rochelle.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: It's not going to cost me my job because the
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: next day we have a press conference. This is a classic.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Here comes Don King, Al Sharpless. Sharpless.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: And Jesse Jackson from my hometown. Ron, you signed the
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Jacksons were going to put a picket line around the
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: CBS building. You raided a black-owned record company. I said,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't raid anybody. Carmine DeSappia was Jules Baudel's bodyguard
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: from the Copa Cabana. The Copa closed. I got Carmine.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: He always took care of everybody and anybody for me.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Got him a job, shirt and tie, front desk. I said, Carmine,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: these guys just kind of like threatened you. Out they go.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: The next day, Monday, Empire Room, press conference. Everybody, everybody
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: shows up. Michael, I pick them up. Nine o'clock, we
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: walk across the street, walk to the Empire State Building. Mike,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: it's going to be a tough press conference. There's going
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: to be a couple of questions thrown at you that
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: I want you to be prepared to handle. He goes, yeah.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: I said, so think about your answers. And if you
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: get to the point where you don't want to answer,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: just look over at me. I've got the head of
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: press sitting there, Susan Blahn, Dan Beck. You did a
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: beautiful job with Dan Beck and Paul Rappaport. You keep
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: interviewing people that- Well.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: I got the big guy now. Yeah.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I love that you took care of them. So imagine
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: you've done it on our time, walking down 6th Avenue.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I'm walking with this kid and I'm going, What's going
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: to be? We get to the Empire Room. Pack, Bob.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Pack.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Walter got in a cup, smoking a cigarette. His legs
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: going a mile a minute.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Susan Blond is looking over at me, and she could
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: handle it all. And my staff, people, my secretaries, and
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: there's Michael. Jimmy Tyrell, who was the first black vice
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: president I hired. He was the head of marketing for Epic.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: I said, get the mic.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: He said, no, you.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: I said, They know who I am. Let me introduce you.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jim Tyrell. Jim Tyrell was
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: James Brown's bass player, recovering druggie, but the best looking,
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: totally cool, loved music, great human being, wonderful father. He goes,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: please welcome to the first family of music, their spokesperson,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Michael Jackson. Michael gets up from the back of the room,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it was Sharpless, saying, Brother Michael, why
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: did you leave a black-owned record company and sign with
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Epic Records? Heavy, right? Looks over at me, and he says,
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: because everything is possible with Ronald Luxembourg at Epic Records. Bob,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I can't make that up. Not another question, Bob. Not
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: another question. That was it. Everything is possible. I grabbed him.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: I got a hold of Marlon, Tito. Jermaine was told,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: stay away from me. Okay, he's married to Barry Gordy's daughter.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Didn't want to be part of the deal. Janet was
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: on her tricycle at my house with my daughters. And
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I said, okay, it's now noon. Okay, I called Kenny
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: Gamble on the phone. I said, I'm You got time?
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: I'm bringing the Jacksons. We're getting on the train. Get
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: them out of New York. Right there, Kenny had a
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: drawer of songs. That's how they wrote. He opens up
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: the drawer. Enjoy yourself. Enjoy yourself.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Boom. That was it.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: In the studio, they go. They record it. That's how
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: it all started. Father never liked me.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Father like anybody?
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: No. But Catherine did. And Catherine, she's living not far
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: from us now. We live in West Hills. She's up
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: in Hidden Hills, 92 years of age. But, you know,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: it was just people have said it. I'm not saying it.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: There wouldn't be a Michael Jackson if I had not
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: gone in 1976 to that hotel, put my job on
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: the line. And then here comes this movie. And none
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: of the Epic days or the Epic people, other than
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: a couple of quickies, 1976, 7, 8, 9. I mean,
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: I had Bobby Columbia, the drummer from Blood, Sweat, and Tears,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: move to California to be vice president of A &
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: R for Epic. He saved Epic of Michael. I was
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: already left, okay? Dan Beck will tell you, when we
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: did the interview with Spike Lee, and Spike Lee looks
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: at me and he says, did I meet you? And
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah. And I didn't want to go into it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I was very friendly with some guy named Michael Jordan.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Being a Bulls lunatic. Chicago, I'm still Bears, White Sox,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: you know, all that. We're sitting, Madonna's to the left
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: of me. Seymour Stein, God rest his soul, is over here.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Donnie Kirshner is over there. Bulls game. Bulls, Knicks. And...
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: Spike is sitting next to me wearing all his Knicks
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: gear that he always wears. I go into the pro shop,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: buy Bulls shirts, hats, jackets, T-shirts. I come out. I'm
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: sitting in Bulls gear. He's got his Knicks gear. Halftime,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: the Bulls are getting killed by the Knicks. They lose
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: them by maybe 20 points. Michael comes out, dribbling the ball,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: takes the ball, throws it at me. Of course, I
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: catch it, and he winks. What the hell is that
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: all about? That's the night he scored 64 or 65 points.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Spike Lee looks over at me at halftime, and he says,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: don't you wish you were a Knicks fan? And at
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: the end, I look over at him at the end
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: of the game, and I said, don't you wish you
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: were a Bulls fan? Hadn't seen him, hadn't talked to him.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: He did this video for Sony, the Michael Jackson interview
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: with Dan Beck. He said, have we met once before?
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: I said, do the interview, and then I'll tell you.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: I've been very lucky, Bob. I've been very fortunate. If
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I like you, you know it. If I don't like you,
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: I hide it as best as I can. But I
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: don't have time for a lot of make-believe stuff, you know?
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Being a father that traveled more than I should have,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: fortunately having my wife being so dedicated to me and
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: our children, She, when people want to interview me, okay, great,
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: thank you for today. Talk to her. Okay, she was
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: already RIP's secretary when she was 18 years of age, okay?
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: When one of the worst signings that I did was Attila,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Right, Billy Joel, right.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: And when Billy, we just inducted him to the Long
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Island Music and Entertainment Hall of Fame, which I've been
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: in as an inductee. And Billy goes around talking about albums.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: And he says to people, I'm told, that's the worst
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: album I ever made. And it was Attila, the one.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: But when they did his documentary, there he is with
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: his hair down. There I am, 245 fat pounds. But
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: it's part of your life. Okay, let's go back to
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: the Jacksons.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Yep. The Jacksons weren't especially hot at that point.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: How did you decide? What did you see?
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I saw what I didn't have at Epic. Epic was
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: not signing superstars. They had to develop them. Redbone sat
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: on my couch with Indian headdresses on doing Witch Queen
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: in New Orleans, which is another quick story. But I said,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: it's about time we sign somebody of name, importance. So
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Walter Yetnikoff wanted to sign the Little River Band, and
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: they were in Houston. And he asked me to come
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: with him on a private plane to go see the
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Little River Band. And opening for the Little River Band
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: was Charlie Daniels, who I loved. So he went over
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: to that dressing room. I went to the other dressing room,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: and Charlie Daniels got signed. Now, the Jacksons came along
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: because I always loved their music. We did not have
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: an African-American major band on Epic. It was Philadelphia International.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Clive made a bad deal with Stax for distribution. I
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: wasn't part of that, although it was under my aegis.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: And they were coming to Long Island to play, and
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: I went to see them. And if you loved music...
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: And the dancing and the choreography, I looked at it
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: and I said, I'd love to have them on Epic.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: So the next day, not the next day, that Monday
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: is when I went there and found out that they
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: were available. I was told by many people at CBS, no, no,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: you're nuts. No, you've got Billy Paul. You got the OGs.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: You got the Isley Brothers. No.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: But Michael, it was like a magnet with me. Those
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: six hours that he spent in my office that night,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: listening to music, trying to understand what Donovan was all about,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: just asking very intelligent questions about songs and music. Because
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: how I start out my book is that people have
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: asked me, how many artists have you signed over the years?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: I said, I don't know, three, four, 500. I don't know.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: If I can't dance to it, cry to it, want
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: to make love to it, I don't want to hear it.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Okay. What year did you leave Epic?
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: I left it at the end of 1979.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: Okay. Off the Wall comes out in 79. Right. So
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: that still comes out when you're there.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: So tell us about that.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: Well, we sat with eight of the major distributors.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: Let's go back before that. How did Q get involved?
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Were you involved in that? Or did they say, we're
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: going to work with Quincy?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: You know the name Joel Newman, yes?
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Actually, I don't.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Okay. Joel and Louie Newman were here in California. Joel
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Newman was– were the godparents of his children. He's one
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: of the best promotion men that ever lived to California.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: He worked at Polygram. He worked at Motown. He worked–
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: but he and I were at the L'Hermitage. And I'm
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: sitting with Michael. And it's late. It's 1, 2 o'clock
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: in the morning. And I'm always with a sound system
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: playing music. So it must have been like 2 o'clock
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: in the morning. There's a knock on the door and
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: it's Eddie Eckstein, Quincy's guy. And he goes, Ron, I'm
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: glad it's you. What's the matter? He says, Q is
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: trying to go to sleep. And we go back all
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: the way to Chicago, him and I. And it just
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: triggered you know that he would be a phenomenal producer
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: for michael and michael is very flexible you know michael
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: didn't have a set way of telling people what to
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: do or how to go about doing it and if
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: you heard those songs because you haven't asked but i'll
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: tell you people ask me the difference between off the
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: wall and thriller off the wall is my favorite um
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: you know off the wall i You can't stop. Complete surprise.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: First successful in the black market, then penetrates the white market.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: All you had to do was drop the needle, and
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: it was like something you hadn't heard before. Right. And
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: where did I go? First, Detroit. Put it on the
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: air in Detroit. Many years later, they did a tribute
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: at the Pentagis for Motown, for Barry. I had only
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: met Barry. There's a picture I brought to show you
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: of Al Bell from Stacks, Kenny Gamble, Leon Huff, Clarence Avent,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: God rest his soul, and Barry Gordy and me, the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: white boy, at the BMI dinner. And I walked up
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: to Barry. I'd never met him. And I said, I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: would have worked for you for nothing. Probably one of
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: the best A & R men ever.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. When the record was delivered, did you know what
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: you had?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, yeah. So much so, Bob, that I'm an
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: audio maniac. And whether I could afford it or not
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: afford it, I would always order the best Macintosh equipment
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: and studio speakers. And it was Bobby Columbia who told
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: me about Studio Uri Monitors, big as his table. And
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: I ordered them. And two albums. almost got me thrown
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: out of the CBS building. That was one of them.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: And prior to that was the most powerful album I
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: ever heard in my life. It blew the lights out
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: in New York called Bat Out of Hell, Meatloaf.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's stay there. Nobody wants Meatloaf. Didn't they cut
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: that record by themselves?
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: No, Todd Rundgren. People don't remember that. And Todd made
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: that album.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: And a very successful artist with the Warner Brothers, and
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: they turned it down. We were at a point, Bob,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: where they were turning down, and I was going, wait
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: a minute. You're turning down REO? You're turning down Kansas?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: If you couldn't hear Carry On Wayward Son as a
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: hit song, rest his soul, Bud Carr, their manager, he
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: would come into my office and he'd say, you think
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: it's a hit? I said, I don't think it's a hit.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: I know it's a hit. Put him on at the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: bottom line. And I got Goddard Lieberson to come with me.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: Phenomenal human being. Columbia Records was Goddard Lieberson. And there
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: they were with the violin. Carry on, we were at sun.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: We were fortunate that God gave us a pair of
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: ears that we could listen to songs. But when that
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: out of hell came in, quick story. I'm in my office.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: I had a 10-inch reel machine. Steve Popovich discovered meatloaf.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: I get credit for a lot of stuff, and I
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: resent when people take credit for stuff they had nothing
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: to do with, okay? Steve discovered meatloaf, brought him in.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: He was as big as Steve, fat, shirt hanging out, okay,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: hair all over the place. And his attorney manager, David Sonnenberg—
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: You know, he's sitting on the couch. Todd Rundgren, I
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: meet him. They give me the 10-inch reel, but I
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: couldn't listen during the day. It's about 9 o'clock at night.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: The phone rings in my office. I'm still there. Todd
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: says to me, Ron, I'm over at the Warwick Hotel.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: What do you think of the album? I said, it's
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: the most powerful album I ever heard in my life.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: It just blew out the lights in New York because
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: I was playing it so loud. That's when all the
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: lights went out. Yep. No, nobody wanted him. It was like,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: did anybody really know David Clayton Thomas? Did anybody ever
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: really get to know him? You know, he had a
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: bad rap because he was into himself. But he was
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: one of the first to ever come out of Canada
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: to be that successful. And I was fortunate enough to
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: be the head of promotion at Columbia. And I said,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: you want to be on the radio? Behave.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Meatloaf, the same thing. Okay.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: Meatloaf, if you play that on the East Coast, it's
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: like everybody knows it. Right. It never was as big
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: on the West Coast.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Well, KHJ for one. Yeah. KHJ had a thing for
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Bob Dylan too. I mean, you know, I would have
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: frustration of why isn't this on the air? Why isn't
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: this on here? With Janis Joplin. You know, here I
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: am with Janis Joplin sitting there. I'm going, take another
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: little piece of my heart. Add that record. It is
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: a hit. It is proven. Well, it may not be
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: for our audience. When I would hear that, I would go,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: line up your audience, will you please, for me? Very frustrations.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: But Meatloaf didn't spend a lot of time touring and
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: didn't come to California. He was a little bit paranoid.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: about coming out here, because they make a fun of them,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: and insecure. And it wasn't until I've had two fun
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: gold record presentations. One was when I went to Yankee
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: Stadium with a gold album for Phil Rizzuto. Right, right.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Who called in Paradise.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: That boy's going to go all the way tonight. Right, right, right.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: And the other was the thriller. Okay? I mean, that's
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: the fun of my career. I mean, come on. But me,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: back to him, he was not an easy person to
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: get along with. Did he want to be an actor? Well, yeah,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: he was. When he was on that stage with Carla
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: DeVita at the CBS convention, the album was not doing well.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: And I got up there, I got upset. And I said,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: if Steve Popovich was leaving, going to start Cleveland International,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: and Steve was one of my dearest friends ever. And
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: I said, if you can't do this for one of
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: your own, who are you going to do it for? Meatloaf. Boom.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Out he came. I had gone out And I bought
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: a beautiful suede sport coat. Made the mistake, Bob. At
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: the end of the night, he's dripping, soaking wet like
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: he poured water over him, gave him a big hug.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: There's a great picture that's going to go in my
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: book of Meatloaf and the jacket, the suede coat, just
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: full of sweat. But hard worker, make no mistake about it.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: And I was very fortunate to have that. No follow-up album, no,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: but bad out of hell. I mean, look at Redbone.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Look at Redbone.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: There was a record, Witch Queen of New Orleans. It
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: was a single. Buzz Bennett, TIX in New Orleans, didn't
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: want to play it. I said, how can you not play?
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: It's called Witch Queen of New Orleans. He says, my
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: promotion guy says, Ron, he doesn't like it.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: I love it when guys at radio said they didn't
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: like it. I said, okay, I'll take care of it.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: What are you going to do? I'll take care of it.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: So Blaine Kern and his father do the Mardi Gras productions.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: They do all the Mardi Gras. I call him on
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: the phone. I said, Blaine, it's Ron. Can you give
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: me the name of a voodoo priestess? He goes, what?
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Give me the name of a voodoo priestess. I want
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: to hire her. I want her to go over to WTIX.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: Put a circle in front of the program director's office.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: I call Buzz on the phone. I said, Buzz, open
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: up your door of your office. He saw that. He said,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: you want to play the record? I mean, these are
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: just stories. But it's true. And the record became a
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: huge hit.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's get some of the other greatest hits. Tell
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: us the story of Boston.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, Boston, again, was discovered by Lenny Pizzi, God rest
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: his soul, who also discovered Cyndi Lauper, Europe. He was
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: a promotion man for us in Boston. And he was
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: also a musician. guitar player, terrific guy, and he was
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: with me at an R & R convention. Radio and
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Records was one of the, as you know, I'm just
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: saying it for the audience, it was competition for Billboard magazine,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: and we liked them a lot. Bob Wilson, the whole story.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: So we're in Dallas at the Fairmont Hotel, And we
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: had an in with Fairmont because Rick Swig, his mom
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: and dad owned the Fairmonts. So Rick was my album,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: local promotion man, hired him in San Francisco. So we
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: had a big suite, and I had stereo, obviously, on
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: our convention with people. It's about 2 o'clock in the morning,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: and there's a knock on the door. And I sleep
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: in a T-shirt and a pair of shorts. And I
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: go to look out, and I thought I recognized the person.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: I open up the door, and he says, Ron, this
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: is Paula Hearn. I said, yeah. He said, I have
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: a cassette, and I understand you have a player here.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: And Charlie McKenzie, my partner, is here. And he was
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: out of pocket. And I go, okay, come on in.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Then I said, wait a minute. Lenny happened to be there.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: The PC.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: They tell me the name of this group is Boston. Yeah,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: I know about that. Well, he's about to play me something.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: Come on up to my room, 2 o'clock in the morning.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: You hear that intro. Okay, what is it? It's Boston.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: And we listen. It's phenomenal. I still have that cassette. Okay?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: And we negotiate a deal. I met one of the
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: great producers to this day, my friend John Boylan. And
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: we'd take the album. And at CBS, you had to
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: do a selling assignment to the branches. You've got to remember,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: they own 21 branches. So you had maybe, you know,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: 50 salesmen that would go out. Who is this? Who
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: is this? What's the selling assignment? Brand new bands. You'd
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: get two, three, ten albums in the stores. So the
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: selling assignment for Boston was, was 5,000 units. I filled
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: that out. The plant makes 5,000 albums. Out it goes,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: RKO Boston, Mel Phillips, I think Les Garland, who happened
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: to be there at the time. He tries to tell
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: me he takes credit for all that. Anyway, I had
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: a hello last night on the phone. He's moving, by
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: the way, just so you know. He's going back to Florida.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: And I get a call, RKO's going to add the record.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Lenny PC again. And Harvard Coop calls every name under
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: the sun, the lineup, out the door. That's when you
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: know you got something. But I didn't make enough records, Bob.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: And they're all yelling at me. I said, it's a
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: new band, a new artist. I'm not going to let
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: them make $ 50, 000 of everything. They did it at Arista after...
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: And Clive would put out a record and ship it
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: platinum and return gold. But no, I couldn't do that.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: And about five weeks later, it's the fastest breaking album
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: of all time to this day. I said to Lenny,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: it's around December, right around Christmas. I said, you know what?
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: We're going to make a lot of money with this album.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: I think the whole package was $ 75, 000. That was the
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: magic number in those days. The Meat Loaf album was $ 75, 000.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: Boston Elm was $ 75, 000. Try and do that today. But
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: I said, you know what? I called and I got
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: all the guys advances, flat advances, gifts from Epic Records, $ 25, 000.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: Let's hand deliver it. And let's take this five platinum
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: albums in a hurry. put him in a plaque, go
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: up to Boston. We get in a car, Lenny and
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: I get up to Boston, get to Scholl's house, walk in.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: Would have been nice to get a glass of water.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: Not from him. Franny Sheehan, Barry Godot, all of them
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: were on tears. I could buy my parents a car.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: So the Boston story was really a very special one.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: And It got me very close to John Boylan, who
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: was sitting in my office when we signed Charlie Daniels.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: And I heard Devil Went Down to Georgia. And he
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: made that record. So the Boston story.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: Okay. What about Walter holding back the royalties?
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: I was gone. I was gone. Walter did things after
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: I left. I had his back. Okay? A lot.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: And I would say, stop. That's wrong. Don't threaten people.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: You know, Walter was a fighter. He had the power.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Wasn't a bad guy at all. He was my friend.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: And what he held back, he also asked Alan Grubman,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: one of the bigotry, get out of the building. Barred
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: from the building. Walter had a temper, whereas Clive did.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: Clive would sway his way in.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: I worked with the man for 17 years.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: I was friends with him for 60 years.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: I almost called you when you wrote what you wrote. Okay.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Give me your take on Clive then.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: Well, he's my friend.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: I don't want to talk personally. I want to talk
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: more as a business person.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: Okay. And I get the feeling from you as well.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: If I walked somebody in here, they would be impressed.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: I walked him into Clive's office, and I wanted to
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: sign him. He made the deal. Okay? He gave me
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: my head. He let me do what I wanted to do.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: He never lied to me. He never played me a fiddle.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: You know, that expression. Bullshit you, if I could say that.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: And part of what I talk about with him Three
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: years ago, we lost my son to diabetes. 43 years
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: of age. And we started a foundation in his name,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Diabetes Alert Dogs of America. These are dogs that save
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: people's lives. The very first check, the very first donation
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: came from Clive Davis. Okay? He was family. He was
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: at our daughter's bas mitzvahs. He.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: He had problems. He had the need to be accepted
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: out here. Okay, so he tried to keep up with
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Mo and Joe and Jerry and Herb. It was a
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: whole different thing. You know, he's very well educated back east.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: It's a different ballgame. I knew how to come out here.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: I knew how to sit in the hot tub with
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: Lenny Silver with a band I wanted called Spyro Gyra, okay?
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: And he wouldn't do that. He was at Beverly Hills
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: Hotel where they had the front suntan and not the back.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: And when people told me, you know, the Clive used to,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: I think, tell the guy to page him, paging Clive Davis. Yeah,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: I did that too. You want to have people to
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: accept you. It's part of the game. But I did
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: not like a lot of the things that people were
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: saying about him that didn't really know him like I did.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: I knew him my own way.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: Just to stay on it for a minute, the first era,
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: the era with CBS, completely different from the latter-day era.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: And certainly when he started Arista, he was continuing akin
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: to CBS signing Patti Smith, et cetera. But then it
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: became about hit— this kind of segues into another point. Yes,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: when you started, it was all about AM radio. Okay.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: Then we hit the late 60s. You talk about Janis Joplin.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: FM becomes a big thing. How did it change promoting
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: to FM as opposed to AM?
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Good question. Well, Tom Donahue, thank you. Scott Muni, thank you.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: They're different people. And the Scottster and I would go
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: to Allen Dick's and we'd sit down and we'd drink
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: our dinners. And I said to him, listen, there's this
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: cassette that I have in my hand, but if I
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: play it for you, you can't put it on the radio.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: What a mistake. Some guy named Bruce Springsteen. FM was
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: such a plus for music that you wouldn't get a
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: lot of that music on AM radio because... One day
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: when Clive, to get back to him for a quickie,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: he never understood promotion. What does a promotion man do?
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: I said, well, we plot, we scheme, we plan, you know,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: we promote. And he said, what's this WABC? You know,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: what's with them? I said, well, come with me. So Monday,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: I call Rick Sklar, God rest his soul. I said,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: I'm bringing over the president of Columbia Records. Why? I said, well,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: I want him to meet you. And he had signed
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: somebody named Pamela Poland from San Francisco. He had a dub.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: And we go over, we get there, and he says
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: to Rick, I'd like you to listen to this. And
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: Rick says, I don't listen until it's top 20. I'm
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: sitting right next to him. What? Yeah, when it's top 20,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: you know, we'll listen to it. And if it's a hit, we'll.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: We'll play it. But I'm the president of Columbia Records.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: I'm asking you to listen to it. He said, it's
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: not going to do you any good if I listen
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: to it. Okay? We leave. As we're walking down 6th Avenue,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: back to his office, puts his arm around me, and
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: he says, I now see what you do for a living.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: But that helped. He was a show-me person. You had
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: to make sure that I would upset him when I
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: told him that Eric Ross's name, the Beverly Hills haberdasher
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: that was charging a lot of money for custom-made yoke-in-the-back
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: sport coats, his name was Eric Ross from 7th Avenue
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: in New York. I mean, but I never had a
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: disagreement with him. And, you know, I'm going to miss him.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: The roller coaster of his life, sitting there at the
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: last party for three hours doing emceeing when he could
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: hardly talk. And I said to his son, Freddie, please. Yes,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: I was at, Bob, you haven't asked me. Yes, I
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: was at the bar mitzvah. Yes, the famous bar mitzvah
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: at the Plaza Hotel. Yeah, I was there. Okay. But
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: they bagged him. They got rid of him. They wanted
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: Clive out.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: He did not have the backup at Arista that he
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: had at Columbia. He didn't have the power of the people,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: the promotion staff, the branch managers. He had independent distribution.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: He went from one extreme to the other. And when
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: he used to tell me, gee, you know, some of
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: these guys are really tough. I turned the air conditioning
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: on and it was too cold because he made it
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: really cold so that they would sit there and stay awake.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: That was Clive. And play things so loud. It's amazing
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: that he didn't have deafness, hard of hearing. But I
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: didn't like his second book. The first one was okay.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: First one was good. Second book was just saying how
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: great he was. Hold on. Because I'm trying to finish
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: my book, I said to somebody who's working with me
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: and your buddy Dan Beck, help me get it started.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: Now I'm going to get him back in to help
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: me finish it. The word I doesn't exist in that book.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: It's not about me. It's we. It's my staff. You've
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: heard me say that. When Rupert Holmes and Pina Colada,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: nobody wanted that record. It's the same thing with everyone's
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: a winner.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Okay? Okay. That happens to be a personal favorite.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: Which is?
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: Hot chocolate.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: Hot chocolate did have some success in the UK. Nothing
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: really in America.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: So what happened? You heard that track?
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: Time out. I love you, man. This is great. Lou
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: Wasserman made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I could
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: take care of my kids' education, bar mitzvahs, weddings, the
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: whole thing. Thanks to Russ Reagan, one of my dearest
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: friends of all time, one of the great record men. Okay,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: Barry White, you know, Neil Diamond, the Beach Boys, he
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: named them. Calls me on the phone and he said,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: MCA needs a president. I go, yeah, okay. He said,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: I recommended you, I'd like you to fly out here
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: and meet with Sid Sheinberg and Lou Wasserman. I'll always
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: go to a meeting. He says, bring a lawyer with you. Why?
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: He says, they're probably going to make you an offer.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: So I go to Walter Yetnikoff, and I said, I
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: don't have a lawyer. I need a lawyer. He says,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: go to the Roseman firm. That's where he and Clive
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: came from. He said, there's a terrific lawyer over there,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: Murray Cohn. He doesn't know about the entertainment business, but
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: he's a pragmatic, brilliant lawyer. Take him with you. I said,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: who's going to pay for that? He said, we'll pay
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: But he doesn't know what you're going for.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: Finally, I told him. Now they're offering me the presidency
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: of Columbia Records to stay. But that didn't happen until
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: I sat at 42 Foothill Lane with Lou Wasserman and
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: Sid Sheinberg and his nephew, little creep that really caused
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: me a lot of aggravation, especially when we went to sign,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: and I will talk about it, the Pope. However, I
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: fly out, we sit down, and Lou says, I got
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: problems at MCA. Bob Siner, nice guy, doesn't really know
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: how to run a record company. And I said, well,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: that's your opinion, you know, but I don't fire people
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't hire. Lou, just get that squared away. And
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: if I can come here for six months and stay
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: in New York for six months, I don't want to
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: live here in the 70s. I didn't want to raise
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: our kids here. The drug culture, it was just, Private
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: schools is not me, okay? Beverly Hills was not. I
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: had that in Long Island. I lived, you know, in Woodbury.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: Long Island was the Beverly Hills of New York. Anyway,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: so we make a deal. And financially, it was more
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: money than I ever thought I would ever make. And
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: I took care of my family. I bought my parents
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: a home. All while this is going on, I'm hiring people.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: You're probably the first to hear this whole story quickly.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: 106 people get hired. Infinity Records. 10 East 53rd. Building beautiful.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: Whole floor. Office full of equipment. Showering of telephones. The
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: whole story. Leather desk. Perfect. Six months went by. Had
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: yet to release a record. 106 people out of payroll.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: The washerman comes to New York. And he says, I
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: may have made a mistake. That's how he starts the conversation.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: I said, what was that? He said, I thought for
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: sure you'd get some of the Columbia artists, some of
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: the epic artists to join you. I said, time out.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: I told Walter Yentikoff, I'm not hiring anybody. I'm not
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: stealing anybody. They want to leave. They can come. Okay?
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: And there were some people, you know, that left. Rick Swig,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: Bud O'Shea, Joel Newman, part of my staff.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: Six months. He says, you haven't put out a record.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: And I said, Lou, I haven't heard a hit. And
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: what you don't know is how I said it. The
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: first release on any new label in those days goes
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: on the radio, if they know you. I'm well-known, and
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: I'm coming in with, you know, a name, unknown name,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter. They'd put it on the air. That was
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: on a Friday. I get to the office, I pick
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: up the phone, and I called a dear friend of
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: mine who probably had the best pair of ears that
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: I have ever met, called Mickey Most. And I said, Mick,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: You gave me the yard birds. You gave me, you know, Lulu.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: You produced the Hermann's Hermits, the animals, the yard birds.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I need a hit. So he said, what
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: are you doing this weekend? And I said, why? He said,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: come on over. The Concord had just started flying.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. I fly.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: He picks me up in his orange Daimler convertible. Then
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: we go to Rack Studios. Ian Anderson's over there playing
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: with his St. Clairvier. I'd never seen a St. Clairvier.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: I said, who's that? He tells me. He plays for me.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: Everyone's a winner. I said, it's a hit. He goes,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: you want it? I'm going, yeah. He hands me the master. Zero.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: Mickey most. Hot chocolate.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: I come back. Uh, records released, and it's a hit,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: a big hit. Now, this will surprise you. How many
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: years ago? Let's see. That was 1978, 79. So now, 2026.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: I've got a young man out on the island, out
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: in the valley, Fat Daddy Special, rocker, writes his own.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: I said to him, you know, You've done five albums
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: of your original songs. I can't get a nibble, can't
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: get a bite yet. You got to do a cover.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: That's all I said. Do a cover. I will send
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: it to you. It's a hit. And you know what
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: it is?
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: Everyone's a winner.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: And we're going to shoot a video with his son,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: the drummer, at a roulette wheel. And this is promotion.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: Everyone's a winner. But the sexual overtones of that record okay,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: is strong. And then I believe in miracles, you sexy thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: You're preaching to the choir. So how did it ultimately,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: you know, your tenure there was brief. What happened with Lou?
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: 18 months. So yours truly, again, signing artists that nobody wanted.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: Petra Pax Records out of Boston, WBZ. A woman comes
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: into my office with a cassette. She says, my name
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: is Bobby Giles. And I represent this. I said, what
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: is that? She says, it's Pope John Paul. Pope John
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: Paul singing at the Sacrosanct Festivals in Krakow, Poland.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: Okay. I call Al Bergamo, God rest his soul, my
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: dear friend, president of Universal Distribution. They were distributing infinity.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: I said, Al. Would a Pope album do well? He said, Ron,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: it'd be the biggest Christmas album ever. Really? Yeah. I
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: got this cassette. It wasn't really singing that great. I
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: called Peter Shukat. Peter Shukat was a great lawyer representing
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: John Lennon, God rest his soul, Yoko people. I said,
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: I can't turn this over to Grubman, but Come listen
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: to this. And he loves Italian food. So there's a
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: great Italian restaurant in New York, Don Pepe's, that I
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: think is probably the best Italian restaurant I've ever eaten
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: at all over everywhere. We decide that we're going to
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: make an offer. I called the washerman and I said,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: we got a chance of signing the Pope. He goes, what?
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: I said, we're going to sign the Pope. According to
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: your head of distribution, my friend Al Bergamo, it's going
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: to sell a million albums. We made a deal. I
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: think we paid $ 300, 000 for the rights, the Pope album.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: He came to New York. I met him. We took pictures.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: And I was given a Pope jacket, satin jacket, Pope
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: on tour. I have it, Bob, with his DNA. And
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: we made one million elms. And we shipped it. And
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: we ended up not having great success with it because
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: he came here and he spoke negatively about certain things
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh and Yankee Stadium and Chicago, Grant Park. So
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: of the million that we made, we sold 40,000. That
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: was it. But Lou Wasserman stood up at the MCA
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: stockholders meeting and said, we're the biggest record company in
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: the world. We just signed the Pope. So in the book,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: I say, you're about to read about a man who
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: had the worst selling album and the biggest. We go
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: from the Pope to Thriller. So that's part of the story.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: Did you see it coming? Oh, no.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in a way I did when I went to
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: Yankee Stadium, and there was people going, hey, man, hey, man.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: He wasn't singing on tour. It was the Pope on tour.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: But thanks to my dear friend Eric Paulson, who passed
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: away recently, who had Navarre Independent Distribution out of Minnesota,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: he was the one that pulled my coat and said,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: this ain't happening, Ron. It was the same thing. He
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: was the guy that helped me with the Beach Boys.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: When we did Hot Fun in the Summertime, that I
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: worked with them for a couple of years. But the
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: Pope album is really the biggest negative.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: So you get blown out, then what?
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: Well, he really wanted me to come and be the
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: president of MCA. And they gave me an ultimatum. And
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not good with that. And the hardest thing was
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: to tell 106 people with a number one record. I
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: don't know how many record companies end with Pina Colada,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: number one. And the staff, when they made up gold
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: records and they put it on the MCA label, sent
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: it back. They wanted it on infinity. But yours truly
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: was not bright enough to incorporate the name. Infinity. I
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: would have had infinity, cars, speakers, whatever. I get blown out.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: And I decided to start with Paul Marshall, a terrific lawyer.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: He's a good friend. And he took a liking to
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: me and I to him. And I said, now what
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: am I going to do? And he had a couple,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: Peter and Trudy Mizell, Hansel Music out of Germany. very
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: honorable came to me with Boney M and, uh, Amy Stewart,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: the knock on wood record. And we started with a
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: German owned company handshake, big difference work, whatever you need.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: And that went on for a couple of years and
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: the business started to change. Um, and, uh, The consulting world,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: which I don't like that word, you know, I'd rather
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: be an advisor than a consultant. And to this day,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: I'm still involved. And to this day, I'm always looking
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: because I say the next, and you'll, I think, buy this,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: the next number one song is being written somewhere. I
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: want to hear it. Okay? And a young man, as
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: luck would have it, I'm involved with a tequila company,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: Commissario Tequila, hopefully, put it on the plug, will be
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: going public very soon. And the parents of this young
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: man graduated Berkeley in Boston a year ahead of time,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: very bright singer-songwriter, said to the owner of this tequila company,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: do you know anybody in the record business? They invested
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of money in the tequila company. Yes, look
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: them up. Boom, they looked me up. Can we talk
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: to him? Boom, they talked to me. They said, our
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: son just graduated 2023. He put out a couple of records.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: People sold him a bill of goods, hiring, independent, nothing happened. So, yeah.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: in Burbank. You get a kick out of this.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: He calls me.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: I said, where are you? He said, I'm in Burbank.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: I said, I'd like to hear your music. But you
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: know what? Friends of mine just opened a bagel place
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: from New York. And they're crazy because my friend owns
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: Western Bagels. And I said, what are you doing coming
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: here with New York, you know, opening a bagel place?
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: But do me a favor. My wife's New Yorker and
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: they got New York bagels. Would you go over and
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: pick up a couple of bagels? Come to my house.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: You got a piano. You can audition. You can play
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: for me your songs. Yes. Very nice. Lives in West Hollywood.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: He comes to my house, comes over to piano, puts
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: it down. Plays me his song. I said, it's a hit.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: What are you going to do with it? And he said, well,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: I'd like to do this, do that, do this, do that.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: I said, no, we'll get a producer. We'll produce it
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: for you. And here comes the title, if everybody's listening.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: It's called Lying to My Therapist. I'm glad you laughed.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: It's terrific. Everybody that's going for therapy, they lie to
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: the therapist. The therapist lies to them. So our youngest daughter, Marnie,
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: made a movie many years ago called Something About Mary
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: as an actress. And in that movie, Ben Stiller is
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: sitting in a chair and lying to each other. So
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: I'm getting permission to use that as a little clip.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: But lying to my therapist. So the other day, I
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: pick up the phone. I call Tracy over at BMI.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: And I said, you've got a young songwriter on your
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: hands who's got a lot of songs that nobody from
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: BMI has paid any attention to. And I'm going to
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: do a showcase. What? Yeah. I'm going to do a
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: showcase in the middle of September, right in between the
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: Jewish holidays. And let's invite some people, singer, songwriter, at
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: a piano. Red piano that Elton John used on tour,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: painted with Ferrari red paint. this penthouse. And here I
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: am at it again. You know, there are people that
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: I adore. Eddie O'Loughlin, you know, you know, Eddie Salt
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: and Pepper, the voice, he put that whole thing together.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: He came to me 40 years ago and I called
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: him on the phone. Mike Weiss, who's now Barry's son,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: launching another version of Jive Zamba distributed by RCA. Hey,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: come listen to him. He's 27 years of age, very handsome,
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: very talented singer-songwriter. So, you know, Bob, I mean, it's
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: never going to get out of these veins.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. Tell me the story of Heart.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: Of who?
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: Heart, the band Heart. They were assigned to an independent
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: Mushroom Records.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: In?
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: Vancouver, right?
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: Australia.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I know there's a mushroom, Godinski. Was it Godinski's mushroom?
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: And that was some guy named Rupert Murdoch. Right.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: Okay. So how did you get it? And then they
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: put out another album anyway.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: Well, Lorne Safer was working with me at Portrait. How
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: did Portrait happen? I was going to ask you that next.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: I came home one night and I said to Rochelle,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: Epic's on fire. I can't really keep adding the epic, epic, epic, epic,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: because Columbia is starting to get pissed off. And they're looking,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: you know, because they had big stars. I didn't have
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: big stars. But, and I said to Rochelle, you got
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: any names for a label? She named Portrait. Okay. So,
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: you know, Burton Cummings.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: Comes along. I would stand tall. I always loved his voice. Okay.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: And Ken Adamati is one of those great managers.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: Cheap Trick.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: We had Cheap Trick on Epic, okay? And Jack Douglas,
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: God rest his soul, just passed away. Right. I lost
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: five people in one month. Yeah. And I get a
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: phone call from him, and he said that Cheap Trick
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: was playing somewhere, and I sat with him. And Lauren
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: Safer was an A & R man for me at Portrait.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: And he went to Seattle to see them and called
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: me on the phone and he said, we can get Hart.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going, what do you mean you can get Hart?
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: He said, they're an independent label, Mushroom. And one of
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: the things I was very fortunate to be able to
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: do is distribute other labels. You know, I distributed a
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: label for Steve Tyrell. I distributed a label for Chip's Moment.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: We had about seven or eight labels that went through
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: Epic that we made independent. It was a buy-sell arrangement.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: We'd pay $ 1. 50 for an album and keep the rest. Okay, Monument.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: I wanted Chris Christopherson. I mean, Bob, I was a
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: spoiled brat. I would go, Chris, I want you to,
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: he says, you got to take my friend. Who? Come,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: we'll go Berkeley, Sacramento. I said, what am I doing here?
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: Drinking beer. Here comes Billy Swan. I can help. Made
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: up a t-shirt. If your child needs a daddy, I
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: can help. That's how we broke that record. Okay, what
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: are the great lines? Heart. I said, Ann and Nancy Wilson,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: they're phenomenal. They're available. They came into my office in
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: New York with Ken. And you could tell that they
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: really were kind of like tents. And I said, you know,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: the only way you're going to relieve the tents is
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: to sing me a song. They sang Barracuda. I'm going,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: take care of that. And Lauren Safer helped make the deal,
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: no question about it, based in California, Ken Adam Addy,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: went to work and broke the group for us. I mean,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: you know, I miss them. They're great to this day.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: They've gone through their health issues. But stop and think
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: about it. You go from Rupert Holmes to Hart to
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: Burton Cummings, those signings on a little label distributed by CBS.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: The thing that we had going for us is people
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: paid us. They were for the Columbia epic, right? You
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: got paid.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: Okay. Any bidding wars?
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I really didn't have one with the Jacksons either.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: Nobody's ever asked me that question. Um, no, no, I, I,
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: people wanted to be like you read about Epic with
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: Jeff Beck. He wanted to be on Epic, but I
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: didn't have any bidding. I witnessed bidding wars when I
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: was at Columbia. I saw David Geffen at his best
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: with Clive and Laura Nero, but I was a promotion. So,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: you know, I was, I'm sorry, I wasn't involved in
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: any of that, but I learned from being observant. And
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: the legal department would come to me and they'd say,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: do you really think this is going to work? Do
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: you think that's going to work? When Charlie Daniels was
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: sitting in the CBS conference room with everybody with a
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: chew in his mouth, spitting in them, they weren't used
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: to that. And Nashville, I mean, the success that we
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: had with Tammy Wynette and George Jones, Charlie Rich, that
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: was a good one.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: Most beautiful girl.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy.
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: Phenomenal track.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Billy Sherrill. Billy Sherrill never got his day. He's
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: number three writer, all-time BMI. I think people know Billy Sherrill.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: Not the average person on the street, but. Well, if
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: you're in the business.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, all you had to know is he
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: wrote Stand By Your Man. But Billy, being Jewish, you'll
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: appreciate this one. He looked over at me and he said, Lexenberg. Yes, Billy.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: There's only two Jews that ever slept in my bed.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going, yeah, who's the other one? He's like, I
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: can't remember. Yeah, right, right, right. I've heard that line.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: I've heard that line relative to something else. He was
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: very close with Robert Redford. Billy was a true genius.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: And we just recently got inducted into Lifetime Achievement Award
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: that they put me up in Times Square. And then
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: they put me up in Nashville. And we went to
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: Nashville with our daughters. And Joel Newman and his family
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: and a couple of friends. And I got a hold
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: of Charlene, Billy's daughter. Classic. I said, Charlene, do you
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: remember when your husband came, your fiance, to ask for
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: your hand in marriage? I happened to be sleeping over.
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: There was Al Gallico, one of the great music publishers
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: of all time. Nora Wilson, songwriter. George Jones, sitting there
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: on a Sunday morning, betting the games. Big Dallas Cowboy,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: football bettors. And I'm sitting here and the doorbell rings.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: And Kathy, Billy's wife, is a sweetheart.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: Charlene says to me, Ron, I think this man is
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: coming to ask Billy for his daughter's hand in marriage.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: They had one kid. Can you please... sit next to
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: him to make sure he just behaves? They're drinking. This
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: is in the morning. Poulet Fusay and Smoky Links. No
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: lox and bagels. Smoky Links and Poulet Fusay. Doorbell rings.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: Marine outfit. Beautiful outfit. Okay?
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: Sherrill. I've come to ask for Charlene's, for Kathy's hand
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: in marriage. And Charlene, his wife, is looking at the
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: side of the room.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: She's going.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: Billy looks out in his personality, and he says, well,
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: thank you for coming here. He said, but did you
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: check her past? And he says, no. He says, you
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: didn't know that she was a hooker in Vegas. Ha, ha, ha, ha.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: A plate came flying out of the kitchen, okay? Billy
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: was just, he and I hit it off big time.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: He did not like a lot of the New York attitude.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: I would come, I would stay there with him. We
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: would go. When he did the Charlie Rich album, total
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: studio costs of that album were somewhere between $ 4, 000 and
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: $ 5, 000 because he just did it all. And Billy wrote
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: those songs with Nora Wilson, Glenn Sutton, okay? who was
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: married to Lynn Anderson, you know, and there I was,
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: you know, sitting there watching them play cards and poker.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: I would never get in the game with them. Worst
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: restaurants in those days in Nashville, okay? But Billy, and
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: I talk about him, it was just, you know, somebody
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: I could go to when Most Beautiful Girl and Charlie Rich, hey,
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: Did you happen to see intros?
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: I can tell you where I remember the jukebox in Rutland.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I heard so many times. Yeah. But you
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: can remember when you hear that song.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: How about this? Walking through Printer's Alley, 2 o'clock in
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: the morning, a drink in this hand, Billy in this hand,
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: and he says, we're going into the Printer's Alley, and
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: we're going to see this guy. We walk in. There's
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: Charlie sitting, beautiful white hair. Big boss, man. I said,
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: Charlie Rich? Done.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: So what'd you sign that didn't hit that you thought
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: was going to go? Band out of St. Louis called
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: Star Castle. Oh, I remember them, yeah.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember those that didn't. Not that many, fortunately.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: God's been good to me. But here's what happened. You
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: have big A & R staff. And I would say
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: to them, Steve-headed staff, as did Lenny, if they love it,
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: Sign it. Give them a put if they love it.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: If it doesn't work, they loved it. And that worked, okay?
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: But there were certain songs that if I couldn't listen
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: to it and harmonize to it myself, I had a
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: fortunate situation where my wife came out of the record business.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: She started out as a secretary. Neil Diamond came to
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: her first with a song, a demo, to give to
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: Jack Gold, her boss, who ended up being Barber's producer, Streisand.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: And he took the cassette and threw it in the
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: garbage when Neil was one of his first songs. She
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: took it out, and it was a story about his
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: young daughter, and it developed a relationship with Rochelle and
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: Neil Diamond. She's got very commercial ears, my wife. And
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: our home in Woodbury, I put a soundproof room in
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: the basement so I could play music as loud as
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: I'd want to play it. And there were certain times
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: I would listen and pass. I'm trying to think to
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: answer your question of something that I personally really believed
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: in that didn't make it because we were on fire.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, we didn't sign that many And I inherited Epic, Poco.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: I couldn't get, you know, a hit song out of Rusty.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: I liked them, but when he took lighter fluid and
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: littered it on his steel, oh yeah, Carnegie Hall, and
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: put it on his steel guitar, that took care of that.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: There was a Donovan album that later on, as I
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: was leaving Epic, the Alan Klein album, Wanted me to
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: come to his office. I am running Epic Records. Wanted
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: me to come over. And Mickey did not make the album.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't that good an album. But, you know,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: there were certain follow-up albums that didn't make it. The
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: first one was always, you know, the one that really
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: got you.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: And so how did you decide when to drop an act?
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: Hmm. Usually the finance people would come to me and
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: they would tell me what I was paying per release,
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: what promotion, marketing, if they were unearned, and not touring. See,
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: touring was it. I mean, we signed Southside Johnny and
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: how I met Bruce was at the Stone Pony. Stevie
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: Van Zandt, one of my dearest friends to this day,
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: He said, come on out. We're going out to Stone
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: Pony to see a band. And it's in his book.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: And we went out there, and there's Southside Johnny. And
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: the guy walks up wearing a T-shirt with a pack
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: of cigarettes folded up. And he said, you Ronald Luxemburg?
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: And I said, do I owe you any money? He laughed.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: And he said, I'm Bruce Springsteen. I said, that's nice.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: That's how we met. Many years later, we were together.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: And there's a phenomenal picture of he and I, you know.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: So how come Southside could never break?
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: Songs. You know, Bob, it's all about songs. With me,
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's all about dance to it,
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: cry to it, want to make love to it. That
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: doesn't work. And South just, he had a terrific manager,
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: Harvey Leeds, Steve Leeds, you know, terrific people surrounding him.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: But when you're under the shadow of Springsteen and Jersey and,
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: you know, oh, you're from Jersey, it's the same thing.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: The guy that came through all this, Tommy James, selling
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: 100 million records and not being in the Hall of Fame,
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: I'll get back to that. It's going to be a
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: quest of mine until I make it happen.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: So they'll induct him after he dies.
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Boy, do I hate that.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: So you were from Chicago, but you spent all this
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: time on the East Coast. Now you live in L.A.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: What's the difference between L.A. and New York?
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: Boy, you're in trouble with my answer. People come up
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: to me and they go, what's it like, Chicago, New York, L.A.?
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: That's real simple. In Chicago, you walk along Wacker Drive
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: and somebody's got a little camera and they say, how
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: do I get to the Wrigley Building? Come on, I'll
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: take you. That's the Midwest. New York, walking down Fifth Avenue,
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: and somebody says, how do I get to Yankee Stadium,
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: or should I go myself? That's New York. California. Hey, man,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: how do I get to Hollywood Boulevard?
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, you want to go to Hollywood Boulevard?
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: You got a joint? That's California back then. It is
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: so funny that this studio is here. I will make
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: you laugh. For 10 years that we've lived here, my son-in-law,
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: Scott Prysan, who just won a Tony for Best Musical
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: as a producer with Lorne Michaels, Schmigadoon, is now going
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: to be doing Damn Yankees with George Steinbrenner's granddaughter. He's
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: a producer. He did Rock of Ages. So Rock of
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: Ages was right around the corner from you at the
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: Bourbon Room. That was his place. And today, when I'm
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: driving here, Ways, of course. And I'm going, wait a minute.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: I know this area. I know this parking lot. So
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: it's so good to see you. And I compliment you
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: because you say what's on your mind. And Clive used
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: to say to me, why is Paul Simon mad at you?
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: I said, it's really easy to understand that one. George Michael,
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: George Wilson taped your favorite song, Clive, off television. Bridge
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: Over Troubled Water. It's a Thanksgiving special. many years ago.
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: He took the cassette. He put it on the radio.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: He gave it to Buzz Bennett at the radio station.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: He gave it to some of his friends. Paul comes
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: into my office and he says, cease and desist. I
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: didn't release that. I didn't approve that. I said, too late. Okay.
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: Bridge over troubled water. We made 5,000 singles. Out it
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: goes to every radio station. And he goes to Clive
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: and he says, you're head of promotion. Cease and desist.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going to close the whole company. I said, Paul,
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: it's an overnight hit, okay? Things like that happen. I
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it. George Wilson from this
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: radio station did that.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: Why was he pissed?
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: Because it wasn't released yet. I don't even think it
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: was licensed yet. I don't even think it was published
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: that they did a Thanksgiving Hallmark special, you know, and
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: you take a cassette player in those days and put
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: it next to the speaker. And he said, oh, Simon
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: and Garfunkel, new single. But. it's the same thing when
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: Scott played Bruce and it's the same thing with radio.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: You know, getting back to your question about FM, if
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: FM had not come along, I really doubt all the
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: artists that you write about. Oh, yeah. And I got
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: another one for you. When I did meet Rupert Murdoch,
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: because I represented his son, James, when James got in
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: the record business.
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: Rock his records.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I was his consultant. I said to Rupert,
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: you know what you ought to do? Buy every AM
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: radio station. And let me program them. They're still there.
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: They still have a license. They still have an antenna.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: Bill Paley, Mr. Paley, one day as I was sitting
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: in his office with 10 Picassos, okay, he looked at
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: me and he said, you're going to be the youngest
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: vice president ever at CBS. Well, thank you. I didn't
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: ask him about getting any more money. I got a title, right?
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: He said, I want you to remember something. Like, I'm
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: looking at you, Bob, and I don't mean to point,
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: but I am pointing at you. He goes at me
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: and he says, just remember this. I have a broadcast
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: license that's a license to steal. Don't jeopardize it. Because
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 2: if you got involved in payola, you're going to jeopardize
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: an FCC license, okay? I walked out of there going, hmm,
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 2: did I just get warned? So here came the American
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: Express card. Clive calls me into his office, and there's
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: a guy sitting there from American Express. You could see
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: with his half-inch tie. and the head of accounting from CBS, Ron,
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: we'd like you to be one of the first to
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: receive the CBS Records American Express card. I'm going, yeah. Well,
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: aren't you excited? No. Because it's going to develop some
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: bad habits. Not just with me. And it turned out
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: that expenses went up. When Clive got fired, that was
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 2: a very bad day for me because I was there.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: And I walked him home. And when the call came
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: from CBS to return his car, 280 Mercedes, you realize
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 2: what had happened. That misappropriation of corporate funds, Freddie's bar mitzvah,
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: you know, It was just a way of getting rid
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: of him.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: Meaning Clive will say that he was innocent, did say
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: that he was innocent. The story is the charge for
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: the bar mitzvah.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: Did you think they just wanted to get rid of
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: him or they found misbehavior?
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: No, I think they wanted to get rid of him.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: I was at that bar mitzvah with my wife. I
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: will not go into now. I will with you again.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 2: how that all happened. But I think it was terribly
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: a witch hunt. And I think that Arthur Taylor did
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: not like that he would come out here and get
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: a bungalow at the Beverly Hills Hotel. I mean, you know,
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: there's certain things to the style that Clive developed that
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: cost money. But he was delivering, man. I mean, take
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: a look.
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right, right.
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: And the bottom line, he was delivering. And when you're
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: out here and you're competing, I've only seen it for
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: the last 10 years that I've lived here. So I
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: used to come out here a lot, but I never
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 2: got involved. I mean, Jerry Moss to me was just
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: a dear friend, God rest his soul. And when his
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: horse won the Kentucky Derby. I had $ 2 on it,
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 2: not more. I mean, but it was fun. We had
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: fun in those days. And Clive was very serious. And
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 2: when Bill Graham would stay with me at the Century
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: Plaza Hotel during the CBS conventions, and Clive also had
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: Bungalow 7 or 10 or whatever the hell it was
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: at the Beverly Hills Hotel and the suite, uh, Billy
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: Joel and I would sit in my room on the
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: 19th floor of that hotel and I'd be playing music
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: all night and there was nothing coming from the other
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: room because it was empty. And, you know, Clive was
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: Clive and he had his own image. Walter, for Walter
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: to turn on Clive was a problem for me. I
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: don't know whether it was jealousy because when you, Think
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: of Walter, you think of a fighter, you think of
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: a Russian boxer. Clive would talk his way in and
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: out of these problems. And the artists, Sly, for example, Santana.
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 2: And you stop and think of the roster that was
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: at Columbia Records in those days. Bob Dylan, I'm leaving,
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not leaving. Paul Simon, I'm leaving, I'm not leaving.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 2: And there, I had gotten away from Columbia. to go
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: to Epic, not wanting to, but when he said to me,
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: you know, you got a chance to build your own image.
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: If not for that, I would have just been a
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 2: hired hand doing like most of the people did in
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: those days, you know? Neil Bogart, God rest his soul,
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: he would come to me and he'd say, please come
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 2: to Buddha. I'm going, I can't, but I'm going to
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: sign the Isley Brothers that you are distributing, Charlie Daniels
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: that you are distributing, because You're just an independent label. Okay.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: Other than yourself, best promotion man who ever lived?
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 2: Wow. Let's categorize this. Steve Popovich was a very, very,
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: very good promotion man. So much so quickly, date records,
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: get to Cleveland, and Peaches and Herb is not going
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: on Wixie or any of the major stations. He says,
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: let's go to WJET in Erie.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: He said, but you're going to be introduced as the
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 2: head of date records.
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 2: He said, and you're going to judge a beauty contest. Wait, Bob.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: He said, and one– I've never told this story. And
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 2: one of the contestants is the program director's daughter. She wins.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 2: And we would do Youngstown, Erie, Canton, you know, secondary
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: markets to get all these records played. But that was Steve. Yeah.
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: And you had Jan Bashan out here. She was a
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: phenomenal promotion. She never worked with me. I tried to
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: hire her a couple of times, but they stayed independent.
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: And California had its own breed of promotion people between
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: KHJ and KFRC and KROQ. You know, they were followers.
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 2: And the East Coast Midwest would be breaking artists. Part
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: of the frustration, I was waiting one day you were
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: going to write something about where the new artists are
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 2: coming from. They're not coming from California because you can't,
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm trying to put a showcase together. I
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: want to invite six, seven, eight, nine, ten people that
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: are decision makers to come to a showcase. You know,
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: maybe they'll come, maybe they won't. It's ridiculous.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: Well, without getting into too much today's business, smartest person
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: you ever met in the record business? Oh, it would
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: be Clive. Yeah, it would be Clive.
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: Had the ability to, he learned from me. He said, Ron,
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: you've often said, if I want you to like me,
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: you will. And if you don't want me, you won't.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going, yeah, that's easy that way. Because I had
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 2: the biggest managers. I mean, Andy Williams, Sonny Bennett, Jerry Veal,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: Barbra Streisand coming at me as the head of promotion.
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 2: When John Davidson's manager came at me with a phone
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: and he threw the phone at me and he said,
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: how come you're not taking my call? I said, because
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 2: you're cursing at my secretary because I only have 80
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: phone calls. Bob, I had a list. It's going to
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: be in my book. 80 phone calls in one day.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: Back then. Because you had the whole roster, the whole
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: Columbia roster. Smartest person. It's hard to evaluate what smart is.
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: Basic common sense is what the music business had then. Okay.
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: You didn't go into a program director and say, gee,
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: your wife is very heavy. You know, you said, oh,
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: you're beautiful, man. Everything is good. There was an artist
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 2: named Nick Noble many, many, many years ago. He taught
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: me how to use a Rolodex by putting addresses, birthdays, anniversaries.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: And I had somebody on my staff always sending flowers
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 2: or cards and happy anniversary, happy birthday, thinking of you.
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: Was that smart? No, that was common sense.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, you've been around a lot of household names. Anybody
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: who had just a ton of charisma such that you
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: could feel it or you were sort of starstruck even
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: though you dealt with them?
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: Barbara Streisand. And her manager of 54 years was out
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: of contract, Marty Ehrlichman. She came to Chicago, and I
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: couldn't get secondhand rows played at WLS. She was not
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 2: happy with me. And she's at the Drake Hotel, one
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: of the great hotels, and Marty says to me, Barbara
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: wants to talk to you. She's playing Mr. Kelly's, opening
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: it up that night. And she said, how come you
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: can't get Secondhand Rose played? I said, they're not going
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: to promote a Broadway show, Barbara. It's a top 40
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: radio station. And she said a couple of things. I
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: go downstairs. Marty was a drinker. I can drink. We're
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: having a few cocktails. I get in my car. I
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 2: drive over to WLS. And I invited all of them
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 2: that night to come to Mr. Kelly's at Barbra Streisand.
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 2: You know, funny girl, the whole story. And I said
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 2: to Gene Taylor, the program director, I said, Gene, I
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 2: never asked you. can you do me a favor? Can
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: you play the B side of this song, of this record,
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 2: and welcome Barbara to Chicago? And he said, you know, Ron,
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 2: we normally don't do that, but we'll do it for you,
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: of course. And he says, we'll play it about 8.05,
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: 8 o'clock, they come with the news, 8.05, I go
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: out and buy a little portable radio, put it in
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 2: the dressing room, turn it on low volume, Barbara comes in,
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 2: she's doing her hair, Marty looks at me and he goes, normally,
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen, we don't do this. Please welcome to Chicago,
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 2: Barbara Streisand. Barbara, you're going to have to sing this
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 2: song for the rest of your life. And he plays
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 2: for me the B-side. What was the B-side, Bob?
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: People.
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: Wow. She looks over at me. She goes, okay. And
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: we spent a lot of time together and very pragmatic,
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: very down to earth on her own, very tough. I'd
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: rather have that than somebody that's a definite maybe.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, Ron, we've just hit the tip of the iceberg.
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: I know we'll get so much more in your forthcoming
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: book soon.
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 2: You have to have me back, Bob.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: Okay. You got to finish it first.
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy. I don't know how you do it. It's
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 2: been the hardest thing I've done. Dan Beck will tell you.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: Because every time, it's like today. Today's an experience for
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 2: me and a positive one. I'm going to write about it, okay?
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 2: And sitting there and writing and trying to make sure
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: you cover what you need to cover, okay?
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'm going to give you a tip. Please. I
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: don't like to, you know... I read something. I can't
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: remember where it is.
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: This is key.
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to leave the best stuff out because
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 1: it doesn't serve the story. I get a lot of
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: books where they're covering everything and it makes it less readable.
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: You are writing a book. A book is not a monument.
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: A book is to be read.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: Well said.
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: So the number one criterion is, is it readable?
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 2: Well, the hardest thing, thank you for that, because the
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 2: hardest thing that I've had to do ever since that
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: Michael movie came out was put a lot down that
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 2: wasn't covered in that movie. Well, just stories about that.
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: You know, you've been kind to me because people have
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: tried to interview me and they go, what was Joe
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: Jackson really like? And it's simple answer. The worst father
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 2: I ever met.
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 1: Next.
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: I used to have a T-shirt. You'll love this. I
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: used to have a t-shirt when people would come in
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 2: and given me a hard time and I wore it
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: every once in a while. I'd open it up and
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: had one word on it. Next. That ended the conversation.
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: And we've reached the end of the conversation today. I'm
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: sorry about that. Thanks so much for taking this time
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 1: with my audience. Those were the days.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: My friend. Yes.
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: As they said in the Mary Hopkins song and all
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: in the family.
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I thank you for taking the time to
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 2: talk to me. I wanted to do this. You were
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: very kind to me six years ago when you said
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: to me, aren't you the guy that signed the Pope?
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 2: And I didn't want to talk about it then, but
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: look what's happened, and look what's happened to our business.
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you for keeping it alive every day.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's a— the problem is, especially the media,
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: they're dealing with the business— Like it used to be. Okay.
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: The business has changed. And until people acknowledge that, we
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: can't get to the next. Listen, this is Clive 101.
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: Comes down to the records. Who is the, Taylor switched
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: his own category. I don't want to go deep into that.
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: Other than her, the biggest act of the last 25
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 1: years is Adele. How come no one ever signed an
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: act like Adele? We have this act, Olivia Dean, now
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: that's somewhat similar. You're signing stuff that's in a niche
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: that doesn't appeal to most people. You know, what do
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: you expect? And one hit record lifts all boats. You know,
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: they say, you know, get them in the record store.
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: Retailers should never know what they'll buy.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: Same thing.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 1: You have to get people addicted to listening to music.
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: I just had to carry on. I just did a
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 2: thing on your point. I said vinyl. Everybody was excited.
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: The vinyl is coming back. Not at $ 35 for an
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 2: album that costs $ 4 to make. Sorry. And I needed
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 2: to give somebody a gift of thrillers. So I went
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: in there. Me to buy a record. I went in
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 2: there and I looked at the price tag and I'm going,
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: this is insane. Okay. But I have to tell you.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: The number one song somewhere is being written right now.
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: I want to hear it and play it for you.
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, but I'll go one step different. You've had a
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: really long career, and of course, the pre-Beatle era was different. Yeah. Okay.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: The people making the music was different in that there
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: was a much larger middle-class society. There wasn't as much
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 1: income inequality. The example I used is Jefferson Airplane. They
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: were all middle-class people. They would speak truth to power,
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: you know, up against the wall, motherfucker, whatever, blah, blah. Today,
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like reality television. The first big, forgetting
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 1: the real world in an American family, the first big...
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: reality show was Survivor in the year 2000. Dallas. And
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: the people thought on that show that they were stars.
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: They tried to become stars. Now when you're on a
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: reality show, it's like, okay, I'm going to do this
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: for a year or two. Then I'm going to go
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: back to Poughkeepsie.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: Okay? So we need people. The other thing that, you know,
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 1: you're getting me going. People have no idea how tough
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 1: it is to make it. Let's go to the other extreme.
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: My friends were the managers of One Direction. People have
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: no idea how hard that act worked. Okay, they're in Japan.
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: They're taking the private jet. Forget that it's private. They're
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: sleeping to London. They're working the next day. Everybody today says, well,
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: where's my money? Where's my success? Never mind that back
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: in the day, you tended not to get paid anyway.
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 2: You will hear from me, should you invite me again,
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: I'm doing something that is perfect for what you just said.
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: A whole story on a little group that has never
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: been given a Grammy, sold more records than you could
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 2: ever imagine. Journey.
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 1: Journey. Okay, let's stay with Journey. How much is Journey's
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 1: success attributable to Herbie Herbert?
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 2: A lot. A lot. You will play in front of
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 2: this one. You will play in front of that one.
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 2: You will tour with this one. You don't get along
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 2: with him? You don't get along with him? Too bad. Okay? Yeah.
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 2: That whole thing in San Francisco. Okay? Who came out
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: of there? Santana? Sly and the Family Stone? Journey?
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: Okay? Come on.
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 2: KFRC, one of the great radio stations of all time.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 2: We built this city. Hello. I mean, you and I.
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: I don't get. The negatives on the business from the 60s,
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 2: the 70s, and the 80s, because that invented what we're
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 2: talking about.
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 1: Who's talking negative about that era?
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 2: Well, because of hip-hop and rap. Ron, you're not involved? No,
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What happened with rock is
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: a few things. It became too self-referential, became a caricature
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: of itself, okay? And now rock is considered hard rock.
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: And that's just not going to appeal to most people. No. Hip-hop,
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: what did we learn? First, you know, here we had
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: the advantage in the terrestrial days of K-rock that played
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: all kinds of things, played like The Message, et cetera.
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: But we had the riots in 1990. in Los Angeles,
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 1: and we realized everything those rappers have been talking about
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 1: was true.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: But that's 35 years ago. And you had it in Detroit,
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: and you had it in New York. Okay? Yeah. And
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: people relate a lot of that.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: Hey, listen.
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: I would have worked James Brown's records. I did. Papa's
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 2: got a brand new bag. I got it on WLS. What?
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 2: When Seymour Stein said to me, you got that record
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 2: played on WLS? James Brown? It's music. It's in the blood, man.
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: You know, you can't do that. Well, I think your point.
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: Is a hit is a hit is a hit.
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: And that's what, you know, a hit is wide and
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 1: it appeals to everybody. And people are not making those hits.
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 1: The whole infrastructure is not in support of that. I
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 1: wanted to answer you and it slipped. Of all the
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 1: artists that I wanted to sign.
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 2: Right. I failed signing one that I really wanted bad.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 2: Otis Redding.
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: Otis is a story unto himself. Okay. Let's just stay
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: there because Otis is stacks. Why was it a mistake
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 1: at Columbia to sign the distribution deal with stacks? Because
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 1: it didn't come with a catalog or what?
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: First of all, when you advance somebody $ 6 million. Wow.
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 2: When I was not taken to Memphis to negotiate the deal,
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 2: And Clive thought that Isaac Hayes was still going to
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: make a lot of records. Steve Cropper, God rest his soul,
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 2: was my friend. We started a label together, TMI Records,
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 2: that people don't even know about. His partner was Jerry Williams,
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 2: whose daddy came up with a little thing called Holiday Inns. Right.
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 2: Chip's Moment was one of my dearest friends. Chip's Moment says, Ron,
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 2: I'm about to do a song with Ringo. I'm going, yeah,
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 2: for his label that we were going to distribute. I said,
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: you gave me the song many years ago. I can help.
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 2: You imagine it's never been released. I have the master
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 2: sitting in my garage. And I told Ringo one day
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: when he was doing with Edgar Winter, I had that
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 2: whole thing, Edgar Winter, Johnny Winter, Rick Derringer, Steve Paul.
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 2: We had people that We're so musical.
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 1: You know, people, you know, because Edgar ultimately had the
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 1: big hit with Frankenstein. But it was the second album,
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: but the first white trash album, Edgar Winter's White Trash,
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: the nominal record.
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 2: Only come out at night. It was my album. I mean,
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 2: you know, Clive said to me, you want Johnny Winter
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 2: or Edgar Winter? And I said, you know, I want Edgar.
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 2: Here's something that people don't realize. So how did you
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 2: break Edgar? I went around to radio stations with Edgar Winter,
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 2: the blind albino. You could only see, like, from here
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: to that curtain.
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: However, watch this one. He could shoot pool.
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And you got this albino sitting at the head.
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 2: I'll play program directors. He'll beat you at eight ball. What?
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 2: He'll beat you at eight ball for the ad. They
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: only come out at night. All right.
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 2: We did that at WCFL in Chicago because WLS would
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 2: not play– WLS was a very different radio station. Art
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 2: Roberts and I did not get along, the program director.
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 2: But when Edgar Winter, I took him to WCFL, and
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 2: there was a bowling alley in Marina Towers. And I said,
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 2: we'll bowl. He couldn't bowl because he couldn't see. I said, no,
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 2: we're going to go over to Bensinger's where they shot
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: parts of the Hustler. And we're going to walk in
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 2: and we're going to shoot pool to get the ad.
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 2: These are stories. OK. And Edgar and Johnny had a
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 2: great manager, Steve Paul. He had the scene.
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 2: And he took me there and we could talk forever.
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 2: And he says, what's the name of this group? I said,
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 2: I'm putting out a record called Ichiku Park. Faces. Andrew Lloyd,
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 2: Andrew Oldham sitting in my office. I mean, come on, man.
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: That was the most fun ever. Going up against it.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 2: Going up against Scott McKenzie. Going up against Scott McKenzie.
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 2: And I had to have somebody wear some flowers in
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 2: their hair.
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: Right. I mean, I hear from Andrew on a regular basis.
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 2: Please say hello.
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 1: I will. But Itchy Coupac, I bought the single. It
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: was like that first phase. You know, what to do
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: there is really.
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 2: Okay. We're done. We're done. Thanks a lot. Until next time.
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 1: This is Bob West.
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: To be continued.