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13 to 9 · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm Tim Hannon.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Steve Ward.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: And uh this podcast, every time we take a look at some a uh event or game or team in the rich history of Pittsburgh Sports and we deep dive into it, uh we are two lifelong fans and we're just sharing our perspective and our memories of these uh great Pittsburgh sports moments, or in some cases painful Pittsburgh sports moments.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: So today we're gonna look at a very memorable one.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: It is a 2007 game, very inexplicable result, Pitt, West Virginia.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, it was uh one of the bigger upsets uh locally in this rivalry, uh West Virginia and Pitt.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Um it's you know rivalry is normally pretty regional, but um as far as this one goes, this had uh a lot of far-reaching national implications, uh not just uh just even beyond it, you know, who played in the national championship game.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: There were coaching changes and conference fallout you could make a case for from this.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: So um to give you some background on uh what was going on at this time, um, this was back in the high heady days of conference realignment.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: And um the Big East had uh lost uh schools from uh Boston College, Miami, and Virginia Tech to the ACC.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: And uh this was just um really a fallout from the basketball schools and the big east and the football schools of the Big East could never reach an agreement on um who would split the money and how they would split that up.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: So that was kind of the downfall of the Big East and the uh Miami uh especially wanted to um get more money for their football program because they were always more of a football power than a basketball power.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: So they felt that being in the um ACC would benefit them with a TV contract, and the ACC wanted a championship game to make more money and all that fun stuff.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, uh the the that left the uh Big East with a hold of fill.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: So they had uh West Virginia, Pitt, uh who else, Rutgers, Yukon.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think they brought in, did they bring in South Florida at that time?
2:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Cincinnati.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, like you said, they they tried to rebuild after losing, like you said, Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, the Big East, to your point, Steve, was it was always a it was it was founded as a basketball conference.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: And and when it became a football conference, it did grow into a powerhouse football conference, but that was primarily because of Miami.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: And and you had, you know, in the in the late nineties, early two thousands, you had Syracuse and Virginia Tech and some other some other schools that were had some really good years, especially when Virginia Tech had Michael Vick.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Well when Syracuse had McNabb.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: So you it wasn't just Miami, but when Miami left, that was really the end of the Big East as a football conference, and they were they were trying to survive and trying to hang on to their um BCS locked spot.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, schools like Yukon and Cincinnati and South Florida were not really viable replacements for Miami Virginia.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: I think Yukon didn't even have a football program at that level before the Big East.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: So that yeah, I mean they had to build a whole stadium just just for that.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: So I mean and uh they they did make an investment, they'll give that to Yukon.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: At least they you know they did it wasn't like they sat back and completely took it, but I think getting caught by surprise too probably hurt the hurt the big East.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: So that leads us to uh WVU and there was a game um in 2005 where they had beaten Georgia in SCC school, and uh Rich Rodriguez was the coach there, and he was uh young and upcoming coach.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: I remember him at Tulane, he developed the spread offense.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: And his version of the spread was more running than passing.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: It was kind of like the option but out of a shotgun.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: And he kind of developed it because he didn't have any tight ends or offensive line, and he figured if he could just get a really fast quarterback and running back and get your offensive lineman to just block for a split second, you could kind of you know be very successful.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: So they scored a ton of points against Georgia that yeah, and SEC power, and uh they had won.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: That was a big win for West Virginia.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: I do remember that.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: I remember that being covered in the uh the West Virginia radio programs and stuff.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean that was a really big win for him.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: That was a big win for West Virginia fans, and you know, it was uh probably saved the Big East at the time.
4:53
SPEAKER_02: Everybody had I remember saying that.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Even uh Mike Trangisi, the uh commissioner, said to how big that was.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: And then uh follow-up 2006 to prove it wasn't a flu uh fluke, they beat Georgia Tech in the Gator.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: So and uh fun fact, the Big East actually has a winning bowl record against SEC schools.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: So and I guess that's just gonna go on forever since the Big East doesn't play football anymore.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: So eat that, SEC.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: And and there was this perception nationally that it was a joke that the Big East still had a spot in the um in the uh in the BCS.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: Well that was the yeah, that was the uh Big Ten and the SEC and uh probably ACC too, trying to get an extra spot for their team because you know they would play championship games and they'd always want their second team to get in.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: And and the fact that you had these the this conference that was considered very weak, and and the champion of a supposedly weak conference got an automatic spot in that series, again, there was Trangesee and everybody else were really fighting that perception, and like you said, really trying to save the conference because you knew that wasn't gonna last forever.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: And to your point, West Virginia, I think that I think Tranghese and everybody else maybe saw West Virginia as the school to rebuild the Big East around, to sort of become the new Miami, because like you said, 2005-2006, they are really hot.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: And now we go into 2007, they're on the cover of Sports Illustrated to start the season.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: They have all these great offensive weapons.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: And so now, if you can get a true uh you know respected uh consensus national champion out of the Big East, now maybe you have a legitimate conference again.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can even start drawing in schools, maybe you can even convince like a Notre Dame to join the conference, which probably would have never happened.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: But again, I'm sure that's what's going through their head.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: We can salvage this conference if we can build it around a high-caliber, nationally respected school.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think they maybe saw West Virginia as that school.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also, so we'll flip to the Pitt side of things.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, up in Oakland, uh, Pitt is um in all their wisdom.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: In 2004, they had probably one of their weirder seasons, and they had gone to the Fiesta Bowl where they had lost to Alex Smith and Urban Meyer, and promptly fired, well, Harris after a eight-win BCS bowl season.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it could be the most Pitt thing you could ever do, you know.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's a prophet for another day.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: Any anywho, so they hired Dave Wonstadt, and I remember thinking at the time, Dave Wonstadt that was a mistake.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, I I thought it was a retread and a mistake.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: And it come to it in the more, and I remember the first game they they lost to Notre Dame that next year.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: They got blown up by Charlie Weiss in Notre Dame.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: Another fun fact, Pitt would never lose to Charlie Weiss in Notre Dame after that.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: And that was after Charlie Weiss said the days to losing to Pitt in Purdue were over.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: So I I guess they weren't over there, Charlie, were they?
8:01
SPEAKER_02: But but uh also what happened was uh they had a rebuild like uh the defense just for whatever reason was not very good those two years.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: They they won five games and six games, and then the one year they won six games, but they lost their last four, so they didn't make a bowl game, and one was the infamous uh not who's Aaron Hernandez's brother or cousin, DJ, DJ Hernandez, the quarterback for UConn scoring on a two-point that was another classic Dave Wonstatt moment.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: So they had been pretty down the last two years.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: So going in, and then not only had it been down, they had been blown out by West Virginia, quite honestly, in West Virginia and at Pitt, and that led to a very embarrassing interview, and it was it's just Dave Wandstadt, that's just how he is.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: He's kind of a down-to-earth kind of guy, and he just said, Well, we need they're not because the reporter, well, how do you scheme to stop this?
9:00
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Well, they're not really doing anything schematically, we just need to run faster.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: So he needed better players, is what he was saying, but not in you know very nice way.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: That was the that was the walking off the field for halftime at the at the 2005 game in Morgantown.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, what do you need to do in the second half?
9:19
SPEAKER_00: Run faster?
9:21
SPEAKER_00: And and it was, I mean, it it was kind of infamous when he said it, but it was true.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: And and then the next year, like you said, the defense when they played, I was at the the 06 game, that was the game that's always remembered for Darrell Reeves having the the great punt return.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's about all that h I mean Pitts scored some points, but I remember thinking that game, I mean, they were so Slayton was so much faster than Pitts linebackers.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: And Clint Sessions HB Blades, they just couldn't cover him.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: They just could not cover him.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: And Clint Sessions ended up having like a six-year pro career.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Like he was a good NFL player, and he just could not stop.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: Steve Slayton is one of the best college players I've ever seen.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Steve Slayton.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: Quite honestly.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: I I was I was after that game, I thought maybe they should put Revis at middle linebacker because he he was so fast you could not catch him.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: So Slayton, Slayton was their running back.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: They also had a guy named Noel Devine who was the one.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: He was pretty good too, but he wasn't as good as Slayton.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: No, he was kind of their change of pace running back.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: He was smaller, yeah.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: He was smaller, but he he racked up a ton of yards.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And then their quarterback was Pat White, yeah, who was super athletic as well.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Like those were three super athletic guys, and Pitt just had no answer at all.
10:33
SPEAKER_02: Especially like I just remember Clint Session just either being too slow, missing the tackle, and Blades wasn't much better.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it was really interesting.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: So I guess that leads us to 2007, and the biggest the biggest switch from that was Blades and Cla Session, unfortunately for Rich Rodriguez, graduating.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: And they got this guy, Scott McKillop.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: And I thought I I thought Scott McKillop, talent-wise, he definitely was smaller and not as big, but maybe just a little more speed, a little quicker to react, that he ended up being a much better matchup against that offense and especially Steve Slayton.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: Because that that really is, if you look at the stats, how much they go down, and even in the next two years, you can see that they started to run faster.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: Well well, you you talk about the timing.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: If if Wansted's hired in 05, then that means in 05 and 06 he's really playing with Walt Harris's players.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: And by 07, now he's got a chance to to recruit some of his own guys and scheme around what the conference is now and what what they're playing against now.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: Um and and to your point, you know, that that was those spread offenses and and the the the run pass option kind of offenses, I mean, those were always big and college football, but I think you know, Rich Rodriguez and coaches like that, Urban Meyer, they had really popularized that at that in that era, and so that's what you had to stop.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the the national champion in I believe it was 05 was Texas with Vince Young.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: So you had that that running athletic quarterback was just like Yeah, going against the yeah, the that was at the Rose Bowl against USC.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: And I mean that was a good USC team.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: I think they had Montaluga and I mean they had some good lineback.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's tough to stop in college because it's just not as the linebackers aren't as fast.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: That's why the option is much more effective.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: And Wead, on Weinstead, we can talk about Weinstead's legacy.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: I I was kind of happy when the Herodom I thought it would work out, and it sort of had mixed results.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: I the the thing with Weinstead is he wasn't a very good game coach, but he was a pretty good recruiter.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: He was a good recruiter and he was a good hire.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: He was good at hiring assistant coaches, I always thought.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Like he he always had he had the the guy who I know you don't like Greg Gattuso.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: He's from Beachview, so we gotta stick together in our neighborhood, but he I think he's a good football guy.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: He's at Albany now.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: I he made the playoffs, yeah.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: So Gatuso's was a good hire.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: He was like their offensive line coach uh who also I think Rhodes, no, was Rhodes still yeah, Rhodes was still the defensive coordinator on that.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: And he had Matt Can Matt Kavanaugh, who was the I we I don't know.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: He had his head is that was another mixed bag kind of guy, but he didn't I mean coming to that season, let's go into the offense.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: Let's switch from the defense to the offense.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: On offense, they there was LaShawn McCoy, who nobody really knew.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: What happened?
13:33
SPEAKER_02: Lashawn McCoy was from Harrisburg in his senior year.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: He hurt his leg.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: I think it was an ankle or a knee, and it was pretty serious.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: So he was supposed to go to Miami that whole time, and when that, Miami didn't really want him.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: So he pit offered him, and he did a year at like Valley Forge Military Academy while he rehabbed his knee.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: And the next year, that 2007 season, they finally got the running back in LaShawn McCoy.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: And so McCoy's there, that's the centerpiece of your offense, and then they had three quarterbacks.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: They had Bill Stahl had been the backup, the Palco, and they had um a guy named Kevin Smith who ended up playing baseball, and Pat Bostick, who was a highly recruited Pennsylvania, I think they say Gatorade player of the year, whatever that means.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: So Stahl had been the backup.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Stahl was the veteran, he was gonna start.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: But Smith and Bostick were both proof records.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: So they had one quarterback that had any experience.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: And Dave Wadstatt uh got a little unlucky in Bill Stahl the first game of the season, they got hit guy hit his hand and he I think he broke his hand and he was out for the season.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: So they were left with a baseball player and a 18-year-old quarterback.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, you're literally somebody just learned how to drive like yesterday, is now in charge of your your Division I college offense.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: Have fun with that.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: And Bostic was highly recruited, and I think a lot of people were excited about him potentially taking over as quarterback.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: However, he had a rough offseason.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, he got homesick and he went home for a while, and then they kind of talked him in.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: He came back.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: And I think uh Pat Bostick probably happy he did.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he did.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: He's had a he's had a nice career at Pitt after after that.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: He's been a great ambassador for the universities.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: He has been.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: I like him much better as a commentator and ambassador than I ever did as a quarterback.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: And he seems like a generally nice person and he's great at you know if you hear him on the he does the radio calls with I don't know who's doing the play-by-play anymore.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: But I mean he's yeah, he it's great to listen to.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: He gets into it, and you know, if you if you like to hear him, he's that's where you'll find him on Saturdays when it's playing.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: So um back on the 2007 season, going that season, it was a weird season.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: There was a lot of upsets.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: It seemed every week the number two team would lose.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Stanford beat USC, Oregon beat Cal, Rutgers beat South Florida, Florida State, South Florida was ranked two, that's hard to believe.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: That was at October, too.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: Florida State beat Boston College, who was ranked second.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: Arizona beat Oregon, and Missouri beat Kansas, and that was at the end of the year, was it?
16:19
SPEAKER_02: That was the championship game.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so and and that was also I think the year that Appalachian State beat Michigan.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: So it was just it was just a whole year, like you said.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: That was the first game on the Big Ten network, another I remember watching that game.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was Yeah, so so so a lot of yeah, a lot of crazy results all throughout the season.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna be able to get it.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: Before you know, before you say it's a fluke, Michigan was an eight-win team and beat Florida in their bowl game that year.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: So that's how good Appalachian State was that whole year.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so that was the kind of year it was.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: A lot of upsets, and they they called it, didn't they call it like the curse of number two or something that year?
16:54
SPEAKER_02: They actually started to name it.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: So that leads us to Pitts season.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: They had um they come in and uh I remember uh Louisville, Louisville game.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: They had uh been down the whole game, but they had held Louisville at a pretty respectable offense in uh LaShawn McCoy.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: They they ran down the field with under two minutes left on like three draw plays.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: That was that was the uh pit offense at that that our two-minute drill was handing the ball to LaShawn McCoy.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately he fumbled at the one, and he just I remember you know seeing on him on the field just literally I've never seen a a young adult cry like that before.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: And I and you knew at that point, yeah, I kind of knew that he was gonna be something special because to care that much and the put that kind of effort.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: I knew I knew Lashawn McCoy was probably just outside of the talent, was gonna be pretty pretty special.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: And and he fumbled at the one yard line in that game, but they wouldn't have been at the one yard line had he not got them, single-handedly got them to the one yard.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, it was literally three, it was the Matt Matt Matt Kavanaugh called three draw play.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: I've never seen anything like it.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, normally you gotta you know throw the ball outside, at least middle of the field, get a first time.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: They just literally handed the ball to him three times, and Louisville couldn't stop him.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Except for, yeah, at the one.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: There was another um there was a game against Navy, and that was probably another really bad loss for Pitt, where they uh they couldn't stop the option, and then at the end of the game, instead of giving the ball to your best player, LaShawn McCoy, they put the ball in Bostick's hand and threw a fade pass and because they went for two and they lost and that was in double overtime.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: And as they so they lost the Navy on that one.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: So Pitt had had some loss, some bad, bad luck, and I think the big East didn't really want to be bothered with Pitt or Pitt taking a bowl spot from another team.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: So there was an even worse game in against Rutgers where Pitt was on like I don't know, the Rutgers end of the field, and they were about to score with not a lot of time left, and they called a questionable offensive pass interference against O'Darek Turner to basically I remember even I think it was Zeiss wrote in the paper that that the big East basically prohibited Pitt from winning that game, and you normally don't see that in the paper, so that was interesting.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: That was a very questionable call in the Rutgers game, and and it's funny because so so that season there were definitely some calls that went against Pitt.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: And I remember during that season, you and I having these conversations, and and you know, you were convinced that the Big East was trying to sabotage Pitt.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: And I just said, you know what, yeah, there were some close calls, but it's it's football, that happens.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Close calls go against everybody.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: I just was not gonna buy into any kind of conspiracy theory.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then my opinion sort of altered once we got to the West Virginia game.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: But but at that point, they were four and seven, and those three games you mentioned, if those swing the other direction, they're seven and four, and it's a very different season.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: So everybody remembers, you know, the thing about that upset that that we'll get into that everybody remembers is that it was this awful, awful pit team that was four and seven.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: But they weren't quite as bad as their record indicated.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: They just they lost a lot of close games.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: They had they had a they had bad luck, like you said, injuries with their starting quarterback, got hurt and had to turn to a rotation between two freshmen who who weren't ready to play.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and and so, you know, they they again they could have been seven and four, I think, swung just a little bit differently.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think they just um did they got better.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: Like that I remember that too in that Louisville, like like me, but it looked at they're getting better.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: Like every week they got better.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes, like, especially in college football, because you know, lose one game, they kind of figure you're totally out of the national picture.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't allow sometimes a team gets better.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, and I don't think people allowed for that.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Especially on defense.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: Especially the offense was kind of stagnant the whole year.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: It was LaShawn McCoy, but the defense definitely improved.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree with you.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: That's a very good point.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: So West Virginia kind of they had one loss to South Florida, but besides that, the weeks prior they had beat uh two ranked teams.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Uh that in my next one.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: And when they lost it when they lost to South Florida, uh Pat White was hurt for that game.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was their backup.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Brown was in for that.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:21
SPEAKER_02: And uh so they they had um had a couple good weeks coming up to that and uh had won the games they needed to win, they thought.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: Yukon and um I think Cincinnati both were ranked in the 20s.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: So Pitt's four and seven.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: West Virginia's now on the precipice of all they have to do is beat a four and seven Pitt team.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: It is a rivalry game, but uh Pitt comes in as a 28 and a half point underdog, rightfully so.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: West Virginia has beaten them soundly the last two years.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: Pitt has had no off no answer for Slayton or White, you know, and there was no reason anybody.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean I thought if they kept it close they would be probably a respect you know, respectable loss at best.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean I did not think they would win this game.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: I was not predicting this.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: I thought I mean I thought they would get blown out again, quite honestly.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: I did not see I mean I just couldn't wrap my head around Scott McKillop being better than Blades and Session.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: And I just I'm still not sure I can wrap my head around that.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: So the West Virginia West Virginia had um had averaged 40 points a game that season their offense.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and that was with running the ball 70 percent of the time.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: Usually if you're running the ball 70 percent of the time, you're a ball possession, uh ball control team, and you don't score that many points because you have longer drives.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: And you even with running the ball that much, they still scored 40 points a game.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: They were a powerhouse team.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I think people don't remember that.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: They could have gone down as one of the all-time great teams.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, they were a running team.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: They definitely weren't a passing team, that's for sure.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: But it didn't matter because they were running over everybody.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: And that one game that they lost uh to the number two team in the country when their quarterback was hurt didn't like you said, sometimes that one loss kills you.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, in the season where all the other number twos lost, it left Virginia as the number two team in the country.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: And to your point, all they had to do was beat Pitt at home and they were gonna play for the national championship, which they might have won.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: And that would have been the the and West Virginia's never played for a national championship.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: I think that's something else we need to.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and you don't gotta you gotta understand like rivalries are different, and especially in college, and especially like like I've had a I've done a fair amount of business.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: I've been to parts of West Virginia, you know, I don't know if anybody's been to Romney, Petersburg, or Moorefield, but I've been there.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: And these people, this is this is their pride.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: This is and nothing is brings a community together, and nothing is their sense of pride as these small little communities that exist in West Virginia.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I would I you know I don't have my cop I the time I have my pit cup, I would not take my pit cup when I would be on business.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: I would not take it down there.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: I knew I just knew better.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: Even when I went to I mean, not even just Morgantown, just just you just know better.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's just they are that passionate about that team, and rightfully so.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: A good you know, that's a good fan base down there.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: It's not a big fan base, but extremely loyal and extremely passionate fan base.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: You cannot dispute those facts.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: And they the one thing they do is they hate Pitt.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: And I think some of that is like the city, city versus country.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: And I just I've seen that a lot.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: Like I think sometimes people from Pitt, especially, you know, from in Oakland, look down their nose at the people from Morgantown, you know, and it's just oh, they're just, you know, whatever.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's probably not completely fair to the people in West Virginia, because yeah, you know, that's where they live and this is you know where they make their living.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: And but that what makes the rivalry that much better is just that they're so passionate about these games and Pitt and it's it does something for their self-esteem.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: If you can hang one on Pitt, especially, you know, you imagine what that would have meant to those fans.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, to put to to not only go to the national championship game, but to stick it to pit as you did it.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, oh goodness, that would have been that'd have been one for them, for sure, you know.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is a passionate fan base, and I think to your point, you know, i here in Pittsburgh, there there is a passionate fan base around Pitt, but we have the Steelers, we have the Penguins, we have we have professional teams.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's no professional team there.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: No.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: That's all they have that's all they have is is WVU.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: And uh they do hate Pitt.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: I I I'll always remember, you know, that in that era, especially, walking into Heinz Field when we played them at Heinz Field, and there'd be a throng of their fans standing at the balcony as he walked into the entrance screaming pit is bad word that rhymes with Pitt at all the people that were walking into Heinz Field, all the pit fans walking into Heinz Field.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: Um Yeah, it gets wild.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: I saw I saw a Pit fan like fight like 30, 30 of them one time.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: Like you said, like it was just like one of the open areas where they're coming.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: Like he literally, and I and normally Pitt fans aren't that uh crazy except for guns comes to Penn State, but that was those were some interesting games.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: I think that was before the the the 2006 game.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean he literally and this guy didn't like he was a seasoned ticket holder, he never said anything.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: He was literally lost his mind.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: That era, so the Penn State series had ended in the year 2000.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: So that was that was it always been a rivalry, but that really took over as the rivalry uh for for both schools.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: It would always been for West Virginia, and there was a lot of hatred, and and for West Virginia fans, you know, they they like you said, they they didn't have um, they're very passionate, and I think they were, you know, they always deal with this perception, true or false, I won't say where I stand, as you know, these calch burning kind of hillbillies uh who, you know, they have to warn them whenever they have a nationally televised game to not wear shirts with swears on them.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: And and so that's sort of the national perception of them and their fan base.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Pitt had to change their change their fight song because of what the Pitt fans used to, you know, Penn because then they used to chant Penn State sucks in the one part.
27:37
SPEAKER_02: They literally changed their whole fight song.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: So you know that's why I don't I mean I I'm a Pitt fan, and I don't I just don't I just don't get the whole let's look down yeah, okay, let's look down our nose at these people.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, come on.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: So get over yourself.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, it's a rivalry.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: So uh fans are gonna hate each other no matter what.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: I think I think West Virginia fans, especially, though, fight this national perception, you know, and and this was their chance to sort of erase all that.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: This is the this is their legitimate, we're gonna be a big time program playing for the national championship.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: And Rich Rodriguez is from West Virginia, too.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: And that that's it's like our guy has got our program on the road, and we're yeah, yeah.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: So and for the conference, too.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: We just go back to the conference.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: So we talked about the conference fighting for survival.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: Now the conference is gonna have a bona fide participant playing potentially winning the national championship.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: So so not only for the school, but for the conference, this is huge.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: And and playing pit at home is even though it is a rivalry game, dear point.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: So I don't think anybody took it lightly, but it really was just an automatic kind of thing.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: And you you talked about not having any confidence going to this game.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: I I'll tell you my story for this game.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: I I was in Delaware.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: My um my cousin-in-law uh was pregnant, and and her and her husband had asked my wife and I to be the godparents, and we had promised we would be down there whenever the baby was born.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: And so that night before they called us, they were in labor, so we left real early in the morning.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: I want to say like four in the morning, drove six or seven hours down to Delaware.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: She had the baby, we were at the hospital all day.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: We kind of like lumber back to where we were staying at at seven o'clock at night.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: This game was a, I believe, a night game.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: It was eight o'clock at night.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: And and I'm kind of thinking to myself, I'm so tired.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: This was a long day, right?
29:28
SPEAKER_00: I've driven all the way down here.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: I almost didn't even watch it.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: Because I I just thought it was such a foregone conclusion.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: It was gonna be embarrassing.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna get annoyed watching all their fans whoop it up and get all happy.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: And and so I then I what I actually decided was, you know what, I'll watch the first quarter, right?
29:47
SPEAKER_00: And then when you see what happens, you know.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: And then when they're down, you know, 32 to nothing, which kind of was the the way that you expected it to go, and then I'll just go to bed and that way I won't lose too much sleep.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: So that was honestly my mindset.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, I would never, ever miss a Pit West Virginia game.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: But I I just thought this was so pointless.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Why why am I gonna sit through this?
30:07
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I guess we'll uh start with the game.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: And um another interesting thing that happened, I think a bit of coaching here was um Paul Paul Rhodes, who was the defensive coordinator and head coached at uh, I think Iowa State for for a few years, had actually practiced, and this is rare, even for then, you know, even then they did practice more.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: Like you only get, I think NCA rules you only get 20 hours of practice a week.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: So it in college it's really, you know, you really gotta be time management.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: He practiced tackling the whole week.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: And that was that ends up being a big thing in this game.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: And it is like good co pit with good coaching, like it it's like he had it, he figured it out.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: It's it's so what uh what the game starts off is Pat Bostick throws an early interception.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: So in uh West Virginia's driving, and uh they were at like what, they were inside the five, and um the this kid from Plum, Pat McAfee, is about to kick a field goal.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: And I remember this, I remember they they went to do the old, oh let's, because in college the hash marks are really wide.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: So like as you get closer, it's like a really it's an angle to get it, so it's harder to kick it when it's like inside the five.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: And it's not like an extra point where you can say, okay, put it in the middle of the field.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: They were on like a hash mark.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: So he tried to take a penalty and one stat declined it.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: So I remember one stat laughing about that.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: So so like McAfee, who actually I remember, I think they the year before kicked the one of the only 50 yarders in Heinzfield history at that point, misses.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: And he he missed another one late.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it and he he was a very good college field goal kicker.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: And so maybe some nerves.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: I remember uh another interview with um once that after after the fact he said, you know, at warm-ups, he said all they did, all West Virginia did was dance around.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: They didn't even like warm-up.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: He said they just danced around the whole warm-up.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: So West Virginia was definitely probably really psyched up for this game.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: They were not taking Pitt lightly, and maybe sometimes a little bit, they went a little bit too much and got a little you know nervous there.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: But uh another another big thing after the missed field goal was Pat White got hurt.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: He got hit on a on a play, ran into his own offensive lineman, and it messed up his thumb.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: So he not that he was a passer anyway, but that seemed to affect them.
32:37
SPEAKER_02: So after that, the uh pit kind of muddled through and they were losing in the second half.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: 7-3.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: But it was close.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was close.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: They weren't getting blown out.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: And and the pit defense just kept making tackle after tackle.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: And then the third quarter happens, and that really the third, if you w I went back and watched the game, the third quarter turns the game.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: Because West Virginia ran five plays in the third quarter.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to beat a team with a really good offense, you have to play defense and run the ball.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly what they did in the third quarter.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: You Pat White and Jared Brown and Steve Slayton cannot score on you when they're on the sideline, and that's exactly what Pitt did.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you look, if you look back, even in professional football, any any big upset of a high-powered offensive team, that's been the formula.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh Bill Belichuk's done that uh several times in the Super Bowl.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: He beat the the 1990 Bills and the 2001 Rams, who were two of the better offenses in league history with ball control offense and physical defense.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: And so you you if you keep the other team like you said, if you can keep really powerful offenses off the field, then they can't score, and that's exactly what Pitt did in the third quarter.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and Pitt's offense really couldn't I mean they they picked up some first downs, but they really I mean that that was the biggest thing they did.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: They hit it, they hit a big third down to um Daryl Strong, the like the kid that flipped everybody off down in Tampa earlier that year.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: I he was huge, he was a big tight end.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: He was 6'5, and he made a nice catch on a third down.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean it was good good for him coming back from that.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: But the defense definitely, like I said, in with Paul Rhodes and the tackling, they did not miss.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: I think they said they went back, they if you look, they I don't think they missed the tackle the whole game.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: And that was really the key to stopping West Virginia was if they got a all they got would be what you know a yard or two, if not tackle for loss.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: And that that was a big thing.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: And and then at the the end, once they get the lead, Pat Bostak uh sneaks it in.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: McKillop made a huge stop on fourth and two on Slayton.
34:49
SPEAKER_02: They ran Slayton up the middle on fourth and two.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: Slayton should be money, and McKillop just he made an unbelievably great play to tackle him, came right up.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: And another fun fac another fun thing was uh this was Scott and his brother Chris who played defensive end.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: That was their last game together.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure him and him and his brother uh that's a nice thing for them to share, you know, that they, you know, got to play both uh this game at the same time.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: So so Pitt Pitt yeah, Pitt eventually takes a lead.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: I like you said, I think Bostick, it was a one-yard like quarterback sneak.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: And and amazingly, not only are they in the lead, but they actually a couple of times have a chance to to go up by two scores.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's when the officiating kind of came into play.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't it was kind of maybe, you know, they're they're keeping it close.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, you could fault them that way.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: There was uh like Dave Wansad apparently had uh some sort of Achilles surgery, so he had that uh if you watch the replay, he has like uh crutches, and he he those crutches didn't make it through the game.
35:54
SPEAKER_02: O'Darek Turner, who was one of their wide receivers, who did make a big catch on one of the touchdown drives, um, got called for a questionable holding.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: The one was maybe you could have called it, but then there was one later in the game where it was pretty blatant.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: Like the official that was looking at the call didn't throw the flag, it was like the one 30 yards down the field that was that was much more egregious.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: I think the thing about those two calls, so there's penalties, there's always penalties.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: But but the one penalty, like you said, was on McCoy bounced it outside for a long touchdown run that was gonna put him up by two scores, and it gets called back.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: And the other one was I didn't think that one was as bad.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't great, but I thought I could see like he kind of had his hand, it's like, okay, if you want to call that, call it.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but offensive holding is just like for for downfield holding too.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: I thought the second one was way worse because like the official standing right there looking at the play didn't throw the flag.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was the official from across the field.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, that's ridiculous.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, and and that second one was they converted a first down, which was going to all but ice the game.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, that was the that was another great call.
36:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh Kavanaugh had a great that was the Marshall Falk play that the Rams used to run.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the old like send the offensive line one way, flip it the other.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: And it was a great call.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: And Turner, Turner was the key block, but it you know, that was that the my problem with that was like I didn't it was less obvious of a hold into the official that's watching it doesn't throw the flag.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: It it was it was so Wanstead is like you said, he the crutches are gone.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: He's just spit coming out of his mouth.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: And if you watch the game, you can actually, because he's yelling so loud, you can actually hear all the curse words that he's saying.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, again, I I am not I one of my pet peeves with sports fans is the you know the refs have it in for us, the refs have it in for certain teams, and I I never subscribed to that theory, but in this game, it was really hard to it was really hard to not at least consider the the the prospect that you know there was a lot on the line for the conference, and the conference absolutely positively did not want Pitt to win this game.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: I I mean if if we're gonna be able to do that.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: Well this is their BCS bit if the you know I was on the line here.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and the conference crumbled a few years after this and and you could trace it back to this game.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: And if if you're looking at this from an impartial, non-Pit fan perspective, if you were if you were a uh fan of any other Big East team, you wanted West Virginia to win also, not because you liked West Virginia, but because it would have it would have garnered respectability back for the conference and potentially allowed them to rebuild.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: So it there was a lot on the line for the conference, and when you have these calls coming from across the field, these phantom holding calls where where on both plays Pitt could put the game away, it's just hard not to, like I said, at least consider the prospect that there's maybe more going on.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, there was one at the end of the game, too, where um the the safety for Pitt, Eric Thatcher, they were on defense and they stopped him on fourth down.
38:53
SPEAKER_02: I think it was an overthrow, and they called it unsportsmanlike conduct.
38:57
SPEAKER_02: Now, for some reason, I don't know the rules.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm not an official, but it didn't give West Virginia a first down, it just backed Pitt up.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: But even that was like I remember people that were impartial.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: It was like all he did was like, yay, you know, he didn't taunt anyone or any it it that that was even worse.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: It was like you could see that it was just the the officials were totally out of hand.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: They you know it was time to put the flags away.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: Time to let the people play.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: But Pitt somehow, despite all that, still has a lead in the fourth quarter.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's 13-7.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: Like I said, they get that weird I still I mean if you watched, like I said, I watched the game again, I still can't figure out what Eric Thatcher did or said.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: And so they're backed up, they run two plays into the line.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: It's West Virginia's out of timeouts, and I think there was like, I don't know, six, seven seconds left.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: And they uh they go back to punt and you know they think they're gonna get the ball.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, the best play in sports, they just they run around in the end zone, run out the clock, take the safety, and you come up with your iconic 13-9.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: And that was that was after they had stopped.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: So West Virginia had driven down to about, I want to say, the 30 or maybe 20 yards.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and there there were some overthrows by by White.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: And once again, like they weren't a passing team.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: They really weren't.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: So when they got down the nitty-gritty throwing the ball, it's probably, yeah, that's probably the odds are not with West Virginia at that point.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: And to your point about the defensive strategy, okay, you're not gonna beat us running the ball.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna beat us with Slayton or Devine or Pat White running the ball.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: So go ahead, beat us with throwing it.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, that was not their offense.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: No.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: And and when they had to throw it, uh I I remember the the fourth down pass, especially, I think, was just way over the guy's head.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it wasn't it wasn't even close enough what they call pass interference.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was yeah, it was so out of bounds, it was like you couldn't even debate it.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: So they they just couldn't come back, and and so the game ends, and I think my favorite I think my favorite set of shots in the history of television was when they just did the the they did the cut to like all the different reactions of the people in the stands in Morgantown.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: Just totally just mind-blown, couldn't believe what was happening, couldn't believe that they lost to a 28-point underdog.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: Little Shouden Frodo or anything like that.
41:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're taking some joy.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: I am.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: I uh it's a rivalry and it was beautiful.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not gonna say I was above that.
41:27
SPEAKER_02: I watched it with my parents and then I had to work an overnight, and I I don't think normally I have trouble staying that night.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: I did not have any trouble staying awake at work.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: It was that was a good night to be a Pitt fan and uh a fun game.
41:38
SPEAKER_02: And another fun moment was uh another fun YouTube moment if you want to watch the Rich Rodriguez press conference because it must be somehow in vicinity to the pit locker room.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: Like you can literally hear like Scott McKillb yelling in the background, which is just just great because I can't I'm not a big Rich Rod fan.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: I think that guy's uh a little sleazy, but but that that that's just me.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and they I mean that was such a big that that that you know that was Wansted's third year, and that was obviously his biggest win, and probably all the way to the end of his tenure it pit remained his biggest win.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: And uh it totally changed everything.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: Like it like people were so excited, pit fans were so excited.
42:23
SPEAKER_02: I remember I've gone to a number of these, like they have the well, they changed, but they used to have the the signing day thing over at Heinz Field.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, people were people were uh like really hyped up.
42:36
SPEAKER_02: Like I haven't seen people that excited about pit football in a while.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were really I I went to that, I went to that in 2008, the year after, and all they did was play clips from that game.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Like like the like where everybody was kind of getting their seats, they just played all those clips and they were interspersing the Rodriguez press conference with what you heard in the background.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: Like they actually had the footage of the pit players in the locker room.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: So you see Rich Rod going, well, you know, we didn't do a very good job, and then they would cut to the pit players screaming and celebrating.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then they'd cut back to Rich Rod.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: And so they got a lot of mileage off of that win, deservedly.
43:10
SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, I mean, and uh who was the the fullback Owen Schmidt years later, still.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're still that guy's really still bitter about it.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: He talked about how they lost to the worst team that you could ever lose to.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: So I mean that's the other part of the rivalry.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: We'd give uh West Virginia their their due there.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: I we've been enough.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, as a fan, you're gonna be on uh the other side of those every so often.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, and as a Pitt fan, we're almost always on the other side of those.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: And and it was it was just amazing that again that was that was a game.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: It just never happens to Pitt.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: Like it just seems like Pitt never pulls off that unbelievable of an upset.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Pitt had no business.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Pitt's pulled off some upsets before.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: They beat Clemson a couple years ago, they beat Miami when they were number two.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: But those those teams this wasn't the same.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: Like the the history, again, you the two the Previous two years were such routes.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't even a yeah, it wasn't.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: They couldn't keep up with them.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: Pat White would just run an option and just sprint through the defense.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: They couldn't run with them, they couldn't tackle them, they couldn't stop them.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: It was they overpowered them the previous two years.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: And then the previous two years, record-wise, they had a better record than they did in 2007.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: They were four and seven.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: So now you're playing and you're playing at Morgantown.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: There were just so many things stacked against them.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: And the fact that they were 28.5 underdogs just says everything you need to say.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, none of the public thought they had.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:34
SPEAKER_02: 28 and a half points.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, you you don't normally uh give that too much.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: No.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, if we want to go in the the aftermath, and uh this is one of the more interesting, we're talking about nationally, like, and I wanted to bring up this point, nationally, at least as far as um college football.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: Now I think pro, there's definitely more of uh focus locally, like we get more focus nationally from the national media, but in college normally not.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: It's you know, outside uh, you know, maybe Penn State normally gets the lion's share, and then Pitton, West Virginia, you know, if if they're good, and even then not so much.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: But the this game is probably one of the few, if the only really nationally significant college football games that happen I mean, we're uh 30, 40 years.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: To either school.
45:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to e yeah.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, so after this, I guess Richrod had enough of uh West Virginia and he he decides to um go to uh go to Michigan.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: Michigan throws a bunch of money at him and he and he goes up there.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: And that that affected LSU because Les Miles was in the running to get the Michigan job and they hired Richrod.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: So it it it affects a lot.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, even with the conference, like you said, this probably you know Pitton all their ways destroyed the Big East conference.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: That was another fallout from this.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: If if West Virginia wins and maybe wins a national championship, maybe, you know, a defector from the ACC comes over.
46:10
SPEAKER_02: Like Maryland obviously wanted to leave.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: Maybe Maryland comes to the Big East, they're a basketball school.
46:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, right.
46:17
SPEAKER_02: So it really, it really was a very you know interesting fallout.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh Dave oh so Pitt hired Steve Peterson back, which ended up being athletic director.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it that was a mistake.
46:31
SPEAKER_02: He gave Dave Wants that a contract extension before the game.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: So that was uh that guaranteed him before C.
46:38
SPEAKER_02: Peterson fired him later.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: Um now the other fallout was eventually uh the Big East would fall apart, and WVU and Pitt both leave to go to where they are now, the uh Pitts and the ACC and WVU for I I don't under I still understand why they're in the Big Twelve.
46:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean I just okay, that must be great for like women's gymnastics to have to go to Lubbock, Texas from Morgantown, and they don't even have an airport.
47:05
SPEAKER_02: You you don't you know you have to fly into Pittsburgh and then drive an hour and a half to go to Morgantown?
47:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Clemson's the same way.
47:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean it's it's like so I mean it's really West Virginia really it's really hurt them athletically.
47:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
47:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, no, I mean and not just in football.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I mean at least if you're in the ACC, if like West Virginia could have somehow finangled in the ACC, I imagine a flight to Miami is a lot easier than a flight to some of you know Stillwater or you know, wherever wherever Manhattan, Kansas, say Yeah, yeah.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: No, you're you're right.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: The the um yeah they they had you know it hurt their football program.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: They had a good basketball program at the time too, and it just hurt everything.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think when the conference, when Pitt and Syracuse left the Big East, the ACC didn't want West Virginia.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh it was too, you know, it was too too much in proximity to Pittsburgh.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: They wanted Pitt.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: And so West Virginia, though I think the reason they ended up in the Big 12 is because they had nowhere else to go.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: The Big Ten didn't want them, the big the ACC didn't want them.
48:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure I'm not sure Pitt had much choice either besides the ACC.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean I don't know.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: Pitt didn't have any much choice either.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: But Pitt had to find somewhere to go and they and where they ended up was good for them.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh not not from a basketball perspective, but definitely from a football perspective.
48:25
SPEAKER_02: I would I would argue against that.
48:27
SPEAKER_02: I think it's been horrendous going to the ACC.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: I think it's it I if if they left the ACC tomorrow, I wouldn't care.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: But I mean good God, if we ever played Duke in North Carolina again in football, would I really miss it?
48:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's giving it give me another excitement of you know watching us beat Duke at the last minute.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's given them the chance to be competitive in a weak ACC coastal division, and it's it's it's a power conference because it has confidence.
48:53
SPEAKER_02: Well see this is the ACC.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: This is the this is like what works for the ACC and why the ACC works where the Big East failed.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Is the basketball schools are different from the football schools and they both make enough money to where they don't fight amongst each other.
49:10
SPEAKER_02: Duke and North Carolina are happy losing every year in football, as long as Florida State and Clemson are happy losing in basketball every year.
49:20
SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of the That's a good way to look at it.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the detente.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: And that's the as long as those four until those four schools become unsatisfied with that arrangement, the ACC will exist.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and and to your point, we could debate whether or not the ACC has been good for Pitt, but literally they didn't have a choice.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: No, no, there was that was that or not or not be Division I think.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: Or Conference USA or whatever, you know.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: So they like to be in a power five conference.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: Or what's the American?
49:48
SPEAKER_02: They could end up in that.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
49:49
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: They're in a power five conference.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: In West Virginia, honestly, that's why they're in the Big 12, because they're in a Power Five conference too.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: And it was either go there or not be in a uh a powerhouse conference anymore.
50:01
SPEAKER_00: And it's just unfortunately the way things shook out.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: It sucks because now Pitt and West Virginia no longer play each other.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: They'll play the have a series starting in 2022, I believe, a four-game series, so that'll be nice to play them again.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: Pitt playing.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: Pitt plays in uh plays Marshall in Huntington.
50:19
SPEAKER_02: I can't wrap my head around like why are we playing Marshall in the U.S.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: College football, yeah.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a whole nother conversation of why they won't allow great rivalries to persist.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: But that's that's a whole nother thing.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: In this era, though, like you said, the Big East, who knows?
50:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe we're putting too much emphasis on this game.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh whether or not the Big East was gonna die no matter what.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: It it may have.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: But certainly.
50:44
SPEAKER_02: It was the problem was like I said, they didn't have like the problem was Georgetown, St.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: John's, Villanova.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, Villanova has a pretty good FCS football program, but I mean, Philadelphia, the bigger college football team in Philadelphia is Notre Dame and probably Penn State.
51:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:03
SPEAKER_02: And that's the problem.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: That was always the problem with Big East, with the with the basketball schools in the Big East, is they didn't have a football following.
51:10
SPEAKER_02: But football is basketball, they're great.
51:12
SPEAKER_02: They sell I mean you got those five schools in Philadelphia that's but basketball's not what makes the money.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: Football is right, right.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: Because of the TV.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: The TV, the attendance, the everything.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: So so that's yeah, that's really the end of the Big East.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: It it it collapses, like you said.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: And and Pitt and West Virginia play each other the next three seasons.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh that Pitt wins at home in 2008.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: That's the game where McCoy scores a touchdown with about 40 seconds left of the go-ahead touchdown.
51:37
SPEAKER_00: That was a great game.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: And then West Virginia wins in 09 in 2010, and I believe after West Virginia beat us in 2010 is when fired left.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: That that team quit on that.
51:48
SPEAKER_02: That was a shame.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: Because at that point, I'd start to like Dave Wants that.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: I thought they could kind of get him to like like a God forbid Joe Paterno kind of like where he's the CEO, and he was bringing in really good, like he had a guy named Um Kurt Signetti, who I think he's in the NFL now, and his father had been Frank Signetti had been at IUP for like a hundred years and was a great coach.
52:12
SPEAKER_02: And Kurt, I thought Kurt Signetti was a much better offensive coordinator than Kavanaugh.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: And it's just like he was bringing in guys like that, and then he brought some guys on the defense that were pretty good.
52:22
SPEAKER_02: And I was kind of hoping that was the future for Pitt where they would just let Dave kind of have like run of the program.
52:29
SPEAKER_02: Like they like they did for a while with Jamie Dixon, and somebody who was smart enough to get out of Jamie Dixon's way in basketball until that one guy, but that's a different story.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just Pitt just for whatever reason they're they're they're cheap with their athletic program and they don't stick like when they have a coach, they just can't get out of his way, you know.
52:51
SPEAKER_02: And there were problems with some of the behavior of the student and stuff, but just punish the you know, get rid of the problems, don't get rid of the whole program.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: And that that really after once that left, they really haven't been much of influential outside of like, you know, the cleansing game or they they really ushered in a decade of instability because they went through something like six coaches in three years.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:16
SPEAKER_02: They lost the Youngstown State, and that was I mean, that was a game that wasn't even close.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so it it just they never quite, you know, they they they've sort of sort of rebuilt a little bit under Narduzi, um, which has been very up and down tenure for him.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh but the the pro the hard thing with Wine said was I I I'm with you.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: I think maybe they should have kept them.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: I also don't completely fault them for firing him because he was a great CEO, like you said, he was a great recruiter, like you said.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: He was not a good game day.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: No, he was hor he was way too concerned.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: And that goes back to his days in the NFL.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: When he coached the Bears and the Dolphins, it was the same he when he was in the NFL, he was the king of having like the nine and seven wild card team that lost in the first round of the playoffs.
54:02
SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of the teams he built at Pitt.
54:04
SPEAKER_00: Solid would win some games.
54:06
SPEAKER_00: When he got into the clutch, really big games, they they'd falter because he's for except for when he played West Virginia said 28 in the F.
54:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, because there was no expectation at that point.
54:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, you're right.
54:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:17
SPEAKER_02: So there is a difference between like pulling that off and like going into a game where you're expected to win.
54:22
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: The fact that they, you know, the the 2008 season, they they won eight games, and the 2009 season, I think they won ten games.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: So so they had two really good seasons after that.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: They really built off of the momentum.
54:33
SPEAKER_00: But when push came to shove, they still couldn't win the big games.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: 2009 they played Cincinnati at Heinz Field for the right to go to the sugar.
54:41
SPEAKER_02: That's probably one of the more devastating.
54:43
SPEAKER_02: That would be the 13-9 of Pitt right there.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: They had a 31-10 lead in that game that they blew.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: They lost the game on a box extra point.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: And if they win that game, they were playing Tim Tibet in the Sugar Bowl.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: And so that was Wantestead.
54:56
SPEAKER_00: He just, you know, when the expectations were there, he couldn't do it.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: So I again his legacy's mixed.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: I I think that you know Pitt might be a school where maybe they should just take what they can get and not strive for something that they that they aren't.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: And Wansted was a Pittsburgh guy, he would have been there the rest of his life.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if they would have.
55:15
SPEAKER_00: But would that would that have been settling?
55:17
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
55:18
SPEAKER_00: So i i it's tough.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: But but regardless, I want to go back to your point about this sort of being the biggest game of a generation for for both schools, because if you look at the post uh 70s and early 80s pit teams, the ones that were always ranked in the in the top ten, uh you look at like the the after Jackie Sherrill onward, um you know, if you look at all the all the quote unquote big wins that Pitt had, and there weren't many of them, you know, there's a few that I think us as pitch bands will remember as being big, but from a national perspective, the there's th this is probably the only one since in the last thirty-five years that you could really consider a huge nationally recognized game.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: The fact that uh you talked about Owen Schmidt, the fullback for West Virginia, they they did a a 10-year retrospective on this game in 2017, uh where he where he called Pitt, you know, he said, I can't believe we lost to the blankety blank worst team ever.
56:19
SPEAKER_00: Um the bar in Morgantown.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: From his bar in Morgantown.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: the fact that they were doing 10-year retrospectives on this game, there's there's no other game of the last 35 years in Pitt or West Virginia lore that they're doing 10-year retrospectives on.
56:35
SPEAKER_00: So th this was it.
56:36
SPEAKER_00: This was this was the biggest win of at least our our lifetimes as Pit fans.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: Um and and it was just I think because it was so unbelievably shocking and because of the impact it had nationwide.
56:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's definitely that's definitely it then uh a fun game to relive and talk about.
56:56
SPEAKER_02: And uh it's a shame, like you said, they don't play these rivalry games.
57:00
SPEAKER_02: That's been the cost of they're trying to I think it's still gonna shake out more just college football in general, and this is kind of like one of the things that have been lost in the national championship thing.
57:11
SPEAKER_02: At least in this part of the country.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: And other parts too.
57:13
SPEAKER_02: I think Missouri, Kansas doesn't play each other, Texas Tech does Texas doesn't play each other on a regular basis.
57:20
SPEAKER_02: So i it it college football's in the quest to crown a na a true national champion champion has kind of um lost a lot of the regional rivalries, and that's that really is what builds your sport.
57:34
SPEAKER_02: The I mean, people feel passionate about these rivalries, as you can tell we do, and I'm sure, you know, Owen Schmidt obviously does, and I'm sure any other West Virginia fan would.
57:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, they still act like that game before Cincinnati where they beat them on a last minute, you know, they think that's the revenge game, which I never thought because it didn't matter.
57:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but but I mean good good for you, you know.
57:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it makes your day.
57:58
SPEAKER_00: It just it's sad.
57:59
SPEAKER_00: It's sad that we don't have driver anymore.
58:01
SPEAKER_02: And it probably isn't that hard to work out.
58:02
SPEAKER_02: You could probably have crown a national champion and leave room in the schedule for rivalry games.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: If if I got to be like the emperor of college football, I boy, I'd I'd change so many things.
58:14
SPEAKER_00: But that's a that's a story for another.
58:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I've thought about it more than I probably care to admit.
58:20
SPEAKER_02: And it's not I don't think it's that hard to fix.
58:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, it is because you would lose people would lose money and stuff, but not lose money, but it would people would have to change things and nobody likes change.
58:32
SPEAKER_02: Amen to that.
58:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's it for this episode.
58:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
58:37
SPEAKER_00: Please leave us a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram under Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: Thanks everybody and we'll see you next time.