Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Lessons - Why You Can’t Close Deals | Kris Hartvigsen - Founder of Dooly

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Lessons - Why You Can’t Close Deals | Kris Hartvigsen - Founder of Dooly · Success Story with Scott Clary

• 0:00
  Now, I guess my question is as we continue to develop all these tools, all these tools
• 0:16
  are meant for, you know, including duly and other ones, they're meant for enablement.
• 0:20
  So they're meant to basically make things easier for sales reps and each tool is making
• 0:25
  things easier.
• 0:26
  And the sales reps, responsibilities and KPIs and what they're accountable for is ever
• 0:34
  increasing.
• 0:35
  Now, you know, this is partly due to technology but also automation and other types of
• 0:41
  naming tools that allow sales reps to basically increase their personal effectiveness.
• 0:49
  And I guess the question is, what does the future of sales, what does the future of work?
• 0:55
  What do all these things look like when we're continuously giving new technologies to increase
• 1:00
  the performance of these individuals noting that they're still, they're still only human
• 1:05
  at the end of the day.
• 1:06
  So is there a limit to how effective we can make people, is there a limit, a psychologically
• 1:12
  to how effective we can make people, when is the cutoff point where where we can no longer
• 1:18
  increase the effectiveness or the efficacy of an individual with a tool?
• 1:23
  Yeah, I think so.
• 1:24
  Like every single product that you bring on board will report that it's going to improve
• 1:28
  your performance by 10%.
• 1:29
  Right.
• 1:30
  So theoretically, at some point in time, you're exceeding the limits of what's possible.
• 1:36
  This one's better.
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  This one makes you 10% better.
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  This one takes shapes off 10% of my time.
• 1:39
  So if you have, you know, you buy 20 products at each shaved 10% of your time off, theoretically
• 1:43
  you're going back in time.
• 1:44
  Yeah.
• 1:45
  That's obviously not the case.
• 1:47
  So I think that what you're going to see in the future of work, and I'll talk more
• 1:51
  about the future work.
• 1:52
  Because if future work is actually a really interesting thing right now, like when Bert
• 1:55
  talks about it all the time, and a number of other major media companies are really engaged
• 2:03
  in this whole concept of the future of work.
• 2:05
  Future of work is letting people leave the job that you told them that they were signing
• 2:08
  up for.
• 2:09
  Right.
• 2:10
  So if you look at the definition of a salesperson, and you said, okay, what does a sales
• 2:15
  person do at its core?
• 2:18
  If you were to sum it up in five words or less, you would say a salesperson sells stuff.
• 2:24
  Right.
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  More or less.
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  Now, that's not what a salesperson does.
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  A salesperson forecasts.
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  A salesperson does expense reports.
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  A salesperson has one of the ones with their manager.
• 2:35
  A salesperson takes notes and meetings, a salesperson updates the CRM, and that's all
• 2:39
  of this other stuff.
• 2:41
  But you don't talk about that, right?
• 2:43
  So the reality is, I think that the future of work is that the definition of your job
• 2:49
  at its simplest level is what you're actually going to be doing.
• 2:54
  And all of the technology that you surround, the seller with or the worker with, are going
• 3:01
  to solve the problems of the things that you didn't tell them were in their job description.
• 3:05
  All right.
• 3:06
  That's an interesting way of thinking, but it makes a lot of sense because that's right.
• 3:10
  That makes a lot of sense.
• 3:12
  Yeah, it's, I mean, I, maybe it's oversimplified, but I think that the reality is, again, I'll
• 3:19
  go back to that initial example when I signed Major League Baseball or at the NHL, nobody
• 3:25
  came up to me.
• 3:26
  It's a high five, Chris, really good job on signing those deals.
• 3:30
  Did you update the competitive field in Salesforce?
• 3:33
  Did you file your expenses for that trip?
• 3:36
  Nobody said that, right?
• 3:38
  It's, it's assumed that you're going to do those things, but as a seller, it's assumed
• 3:42
  that because my paycheck is so predicated on my performance, I'm not going to do those
• 3:46
  things, right?
• 3:47
  Like I'm really not 50% of the sales, sales person's paycheck, 50% plus, actually, if
• 3:52
  you're a good seller, is based on your performance.
• 3:55
  It's an open-ended paying role, right?
• 3:58
  You can make as much money as humanly possible within that job unless you have a cap commission
• 4:04
  plan, which I think you're terrible.
• 4:07
  So if that's the case, you're hiring somebody that you know is under the pump to perform
• 4:14
  no other role in the business, engineering, HR, nobody else has quotas that if they miss
• 4:20
  them, their paycheck gets cut in half.
• 4:23
  You might miss your bonus, but your bonus is probably not going to cut your pay in half.
• 4:27
  It's probably incremental.
• 4:28
  That's why it's called a bonus, right?
• 4:30
  Commission is not a bonus.
• 4:31
  It is your pay.
• 4:33
  So when you're thinking along the lines of that, you have to really be empathetic to
• 4:40
  the needs of that person.
• 4:42
  The future of work is the ability for us to deliver on the promises of what you're
• 4:49
  going to be supposed to be, and getting rid of all the block and tackle crap that get
• 4:54
  people tied up in their daily chores and activities.
• 4:59
  So that's why you look at all of the revolutions that are happening around the world.
• 5:03
  It's all about trying to improve the perception of a specific thing that's happening, right?
• 5:10
  Perception, a woman in the perception of a lot of people in the perception of this perception
• 5:14
  of that.
• 5:15
  Even in the perception of work, and I don't want to compare that to because they're not
• 5:17
  even close to the same thing.
• 5:19
  In the perception of your job, you never signed up for all the other crap.
• 5:24
  Yeah.
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  So we want to get to a point where we give them an empathetic solution.
• 5:30
  And if you don't provide them with an empathetic solution, they will find it.
• 5:34
  And it might not be a year come.
• 5:36
  That's a very good take, boy, for anyone listening, and I think that that's why we see such
• 5:41
  high turnover rates.
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  35% in sales.
• 5:44
  Yeah.
• 5:45
  Some of it's, you know, unregretting, some of it's because somebody doesn't have a passion.
• 5:50
  I crossed my number at an antivirus company one year, sort of between Vision Critical
• 5:57
  and my last entrepreneurial, where I figured I wanted to get into SaaS.
• 6:02
  I hated my job and I left because I hated selling antivirus offers.
• 6:06
  Some people would be like, security software, sign me up.
• 6:08
  This is really cool.
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  I was like, screw that.
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  Again, got to kind of allow a passion to.
• 6:13
  So 25% people cheering year over year, unregretted, regretted, misfit.
• 6:19
  Now, just to tee it up, I want to, first of all, I just want to ask, is there anything
• 6:26
  outside of what we talked about in your journey, in your life, before duly or at duly that
• 6:32
  we didn't cover?
• 6:33
  Because if we're teed up for that, then I want to ask sort of closing questions, just
• 6:38
  lessons learned from your career.
• 6:40
  But I just the floor for you to before we go.
• 6:42
  Yeah, I would say the only other thing, there is one lesson that I really try to bring
• 6:48
  into my job, which I learned is a baseball coach.
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  And look, you, sure, there's tons of stuff that we don't know.
• 6:57
  But let's talk about this one specifically.
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  I remember I had this kid on my baseball team a few years ago.
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  And I had just gone through this coaching program to learn how to be a better coach.
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  I still think I'm an okay coach.
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  I don't think I'm a great coach.
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  I'm certainly going to coach at the major league level anytime soon.
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  But this kid was so self-aware that it was like wild to experience this.
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  I was trying to teach him how to do his swing as teaching him wrong.
• 7:31
  And this kind of goes into the whole idea of enablement, right?
• 7:35
  And he paused and he goes coach.
• 7:39
  I don't learn the way you're teaching me.
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  I'm a hands-on learner.
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  I need to have the bat in my hand in order to learn.
• 7:46
  You're trying to teach me like a visual learning.
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  So there's actually three types of learners.
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  There's people who are tactile, people who learn from hearing,
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  and then people who learn through seeing.
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  And he was very much a tactile learner.
• 8:00
  And so I'm like, okay, holy crap.
• 8:04
  I didn't even realize that I was making a mistake.
• 8:07
  Here's the bat.
• 8:09
  All right, let's break it down into smaller bits.
• 8:11
  Let's put you in your batsman, okay?
• 8:14
  L1 reposition, hands-on reposition, hands up by the ear, all that kind of stuff.
• 8:17
  Now you need to put it here, now you need to put it here, now you need to put it here.
• 8:20
  And as soon as we did that, he, like his game changed.
• 8:24
  He was a kid who couldn't swing a baseball bat who went on to be,
• 8:29
  there was an award that he was nominated for at the end of the year
• 8:34
  for like basically most improved player.
• 8:36
  A kid who gave his heart and soul under the game.
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  And it was like this moment of great pride for me.
• 8:41
  But again, I think what I learned from that is,
• 8:44
  the way that you learn isn't the way that everybody else learns.
• 8:46
  So you need to really sensitive to that when you're delivering,
• 8:50
  training or material to other people.
• 8:52
  When we think about that again, from an empathetic perspective,
• 8:55
  we think about that inside of our product.
• 8:57
  How and when is it appropriate to educate you?
• 9:03
  That is a very good lesson.
• 9:04
  And I think that when you are looking to coach a trainer,
• 9:08
  or even build a product like that has to be something
• 9:10
  that's to be taken into consideration as well.
• 9:11
  And I don't think enough people do the whole other conversation,
• 9:16
  not just on building the best possible user experience for a product,
• 9:21
  but the way to coach people is a whole other conversation
• 9:23
  that I have a lot of issues with some sales.
• 9:26
  You know, not a lot of people coach sales individuals properly either.
• 9:32
  But a lot of it is, again, because of,
• 9:34
  we touched on it at one point.
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  It was just the person who usually defaults into a leadership position
• 9:39
  and doesn't know the best way to coach or trainer on board.
• 9:45
  And then you get that rocky period in that person's onboarding.
• 9:48
  A lot of it is because it's usually just the best person in that role
• 9:52
  that moves into the next role, right?
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  And that's not as good fix either.
• 9:56
  There's probably one other thing that is interesting as an entrepreneur
• 10:00
  and somebody who likes to be hands-on and whatnot.
• 10:05
  You need to have a bit more patience than I think most entrepreneurs do
• 10:08
  with the people who are learning that don't know it as well as you do.
• 10:13
  You know, I see you always the way I work with my kids.
• 10:15
  It's like, ah, I could let you cut that onion,
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  but this is my last thing.
• 10:20
  I let you cut that onion, but I can do it way faster and way easier.
• 10:22
  So I'm just going to do it.
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  And I can say, but I want to learn.
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  It's like, okay, you got.
• 10:26
  So the art of letting go is, it's I think important.
• 10:30
  And realizing that despite the fact that you probably are better at it
• 10:35
  out of the gate, you can let people get better than you at it.
• 10:40
  If you give them enough opportunity, can you need to make sure that you are aware of that?
• 10:44
  And I would say that's an ongoing lesson for me.
• 10:46
  The art of letting go is hard when it's your baby, when it's your thing.
• 10:52
  When you know that there's an easy way of doing things, that's a tricky one.