Latest / The Vincere Project / Episode 5 - Yes or No to the Drugs
Transcript
- Vincent: All right, let's keep this thing and rolling and rolling. Man, I click on the Insta face and I see Joe Rogan next to President Trump. He's not in suit of tie just wearing a regular black shirt like the government operative that he is just hanging out, floating through life, acting like he's benign or indifferent, which I fundamentally disagree. This is my conspiracy theory, by the way. I think him, think Tucker Carlson, I think there's a handful of other dudes. I think they're explicitly on working on behalf of ⁓ government entity or agency and or messaging because you just listen to some of the interviews and how they talk. It's like they're deposing people or interrogating people to get people to talk. Evidence of this is I saw somebody that is a known criminal who's never been convicted of anything, but he is definitely a known criminal on on getting interviewed by somebody and he called the dude out and was like, hey, you're getting me trying to get me to talk about things that I'm not going to talk about. When I think about podcasts, you know, I think about what my father said. He's like, Oh, that's great. He's like, you're gonna be on there like a woman, chit chat, talking about stuff about people. That's what women do. So that was his persona for salient. But I, I look at his bigger picture. I think it's an extension and a tool to manage information and selfishly for my business. And it's a digital footprint for my kids. And what's important in that is today, some of the stuff I'm going to share back to that headline or video or Fox news, whatever it was. They're talking about the psychedelic drug executive order where they're going to start a green light in research. I think they're putting, I think it was $50 million to it, which is a drop in the bucket when it comes to research. I can assure you that there's more money being spent on helping to develop cancers than there is on healing or getting away from cancers. But in this case of psychedelic research, it's really targeted at veterans. In many cases, historically, the first point of entry for innovation, technology, treatments, different modalities has been through the military over and over again and because used and tested in very extreme ⁓ and ways. And in this case, they're looking at the backside of ⁓ health and mental illness and things of that nature. And I think it's really important. So brings up the first topic is like, when it comes to drug use, whether it is ⁓ illicit on the street or medication or prescribed like how and why do we get to that point? it recreational, medicinal better or worse? ⁓ don't have an answer for you to discern that. It's smarter people than me to figure it out. And there's a of ⁓ empirical that supports one way or the other is that there should be no rules or laws regulating this stuff. ⁓ And other schools of thoughts that we need to tighten up and create a hard line where nothing is available. I would ⁓ this is if, An exogenous substance is going to help somebody stabilize their life, then I'm all for it. Whatever that substance is, is mildly interesting. I said that from the perspective of somebody that has significant issues with drugs had a near two decade career of alcohol and drug use and abuse, all kinds of stuff, And escalating all the way to IV drug use. club drugs, cocaine, smoking coke, shooting coke, shooting dope. And everything that comes with that, ton of hallucinogenics along the way, a lot of marijuana use, I would say alcohol was probably the biggest issue or problem. I think the challenge, big picture, at least my philosophical take on it is what happens is you green light that stuff, whether it's prescribed or not, it opens itself up to drug culture. And I'll give you an example. You know, when was in grad school, I was invited to go to New York City and they, it was like a psilocybin, psilocybin, whatever treatment, they're eating mushrooms, whatever. right? And, and, it was all like helping professionals. And I liked a few of the people and I got along well with them and they clearly trusted me to extend that invite to me. And, uh, you know, I appreciated that. I do, I do, because being trustworthy is a big part of, um, my lifespan in my adult life where I could tell you there's been times where I was exactly the opposite of that and quite not trustworthy. So, you know, with my podcast, my business, my family, my friends, it's like being trustworthy, incredible is something I take really serious. But anyway, back to the invite. And, uh, my wife asked me at the time, she's like, Hey, are you going to go? I'm very, very but I'm not interested because I know what that's like and there's nothing we're gonna do in there that ⁓ gonna shock me. However, what I did think about is this, if dies at this thing that's not regulated by the FDA, it's not in a research capacity, it's not technically legal, ⁓ the thing you know, you're complicit in that and next thing you're getting deposed or investigated into how and why and who overdosed in the bathroom of this thing, right? Because I think that's what gets invited to drug culture. Now I get it, everybody has a very different experience and they've had controlled experiences going to other countries, Europe or Central, South America, Mexico, to take MDMA, DMT, handful of other things. I would argue and challenge is like, what happens when that becomes the only solution that people see in their story? I think that presents a different issue. ⁓ But there some data and research out there that highlights how it's helped people with ⁓ recovering from and or addiction. And I think that's a beautiful thing. Pretty tricky though in the United States because a lot of the institutions and the schooling suggests that we solve things through the disease model. And that essentially means is that we provide an exogenous substance and or we cut something out or insert something to attach something in our in our body, right? With those particular substance, whether it's psychotropic medication or any sort of drugs that are used for some sort of treatment, I would always ask my clients and I would recommend anybody that hears this to ask the question of like, hey doc, or prescriber or whoever, how do I stop taking this? Like what's my exit from this? What happens when this is done or this doesn't work? then that way you're making an accurate and informed decision because If it's a one-time treatment, that's one version, right? If it's something that's continuous every day or multiple times a day, that's a very different version. But I think it's giving consideration to what is acceptable for me and then what is the exit. think the biggest dilemma and issue and challenge that legislators, leaders, families, individuals, heads of household ⁓ with these things is this. There's very much polarized in schools of thought on drugs and alcohol throughout America, right? What's acceptable, what's unacceptable. I think in this case, I would liken it very much to gambling and or, you know, steroids, performance enhancing drugs. A of that stuff, ironically, is targeted at children and kids and normalizing behaviors for people between 18 and 25. Gambling and PEDs specifically, right? And what I would say is ⁓ the part is like, nobody really gives a crap if people take PEDs, right? And in pro sports, because reality is this, right? If you had two NFLs, right? You had one NFL that was El Natural and nobody takes any PEDs, there's nobody watching that thing. And then you have the other one where people take PEDs, everybody's watching that. They're bigger, faster, and stronger. They recover better. That stuff works. The challenge and dilemma becomes is that folks try to suggest they don't want kids taking that stuff. And here's what I would say to you as a former student athlete. The students at 16, 17 or 18 that start taking PEDs and they're already good, that creates the jump that they take in that window of time, just as their hormones are starting to flush and pump their system. It could be argued it might be worth the scholarship at that point, especially now with the NIL, right? Because if you go as to a mid-major or a big time college as a student athlete and Star Wars is what gets you there and you sign an NIL deal for a million dollars, like you'd be a fool not to do that. And who gives a crap at that point if you took PEDs, right? That's your ethical dilemma and guilt of conscience. would say it's cheating, but I would argue at that point, right? You know, it's a safety issue because if the greater majority of the athletes are taking things of that nature and you don't, you're not competitive disadvantage, it's a safety issue at that point So flipping it around, some more of the issues that I find with the drug culture and things like that is we look at some of the behavioral things that come up in the addictions, right? That compulsive behavior, despite of the consequences, people will continue to engage in. They'll increase their tolerance and then demonstrate symptoms consistent with withdrawal. is that one that I would say is probably on the horizon, a bigger threat to the well-being of our nation and country beyond drug culture. ⁓ I say that in the sense of this Americans as a whole will discern what is right or wrong. And in recent history, we know in the mid 2000s, with the Sackler family in Purdue did with OxyContin and started pumping, pumping opiates into the streets. That was ⁓ a a significant violation. What you now with FanDuel, DraftKings, among many other applications ⁓ is this. They are targeting the innocent of the innocent and people that don't have a bandwidth or wherewithal to understand that. Me, I grew up with a guy who was one foot in the street, one foot out. like gambling is very much how I learned to do math, probability statistics. It's a lose-lose proposition, generally speaking. What I would tell you is this though, I remember when we started seeing the online promos for gambling and my father turned to me and looked at me he's like, dude, he's like, they are targeting young people because they're naive and ignorant to what the behavior is. in terms of giving this phone that now has an apparatus and device to somebody to get that hit, it exacerbates the particular issues. The fallout and consequences that people aren't aware of is this. now are plummeting your particular resources, specifically finance, and then your time and attention is shifted to this thing that's a lose-lose proposition. ⁓ flip side of it is this, is you're gonna see an increase in bad and... potentially death by suicide because that's the kind of strain and stress that that can create. So I started on psychedelic drug culture and executive order and that weirdo Joe Rogan being there yucking it up and promoting people getting high and all that stuff. Nothing wrong with that if that's going to help people and heal people and help them get better. I'm all for that stuff, right? But I would just challenge the thinking about it as are we looking for escapism? Is it avoidance or is it accommodation in that story? Because the flip around is this, is if you really, really think about the treatments that we're trying to share with other people or use for other people, would I want to use that on my kids or my loved ones? And that's where I exhibit and demonstrate significant caution. You know, I have an adult child, right? And if she came to me and said, hey, dad, I'm struggling with this particular thing. What do you think I should do? I'm typically not going to point to taking ayahuasca or ibogaine or ketamine or ecstasy or MDMA or psilocybin, psilocybin, any of that stuff. Definitely not LSD, definitely not angel dust, right? But I do think opiates play a role, right? There is enough pain somebody can experience for opiate might be ⁓ worth it. And I think there needs to be extreme caution with sedatives as well. ⁓ But wanna circle it back to this. I bounced around on a couple of different topics and shared some of my thoughts and opinions. I would say alcohol is the... ⁓ first thing that is introduced to a situation to create high risk, right? I was at an event a couple of years ago and a dude axed his arm, Chopped his arm pretty good, man. Had some cuts and things like that. The where, what, and how doesn't particularly matter. ⁓ But I would say is this, right? Let's say he would have hacked his arm off, right? And he chops his finger off. And one leads to the next and it turns into a serious, serious situation. The question will become is like, was there alcohol involved or drugs or something of that nature? And I have yet to see in any situations or scenarios where when alcohol is involved, somebody makes out okay. My wife lost her life savings and nearly lost her home because somebody nearly died in our house as a result of an alcohol-related incident. And there was a violent crime, they hit their head, something, whatever, an insane situation. My own situations with alcohol, I've yet to have one memory I can point to be like my life got better when there was alcohol introduced into my life at that point, and or drugs for that matter. I'm maybe a little bit hardline about like what works and what doesn't work. And I'm very hesitant and cautious. That's only because I know my own situation and how I respond to that stuff. I have an allergic reaction and then all the way kind of person. I think there's better ways to get clean, sober and work through trauma and addiction before drugs and alcohol. I think they're much, much more difficult. I think they're much more labor intensive. And I think they require an element of spiritual surrender that some people may or may not be able to do ⁓ willing to offer to the world at this point. ⁓ I think that's okay too, right? So ⁓ If somebody having an experience with Ibogaine or ayahuasca is going to get them clean and sober, help them work through their trauma, if there's an injection that's going to help a pill, a tab, whatever, right? To help somebody get some stability in their life. If going to the methadone clinic is getting somebody off the dope and they're not breaking into grandma's houses to steal TVs, think that's okay. I think it is okay. But for me personally, with my clients, my family, my friends, I'm just a little more mindful and hesitant, right? Because I think once you introduce that external substance, it's gonna be really difficult to stop that substance, especially if the symptoms declining and there's an improvement in mood and behavior ⁓ there's no ⁓ or recidivism to the old particular behavior ⁓ drugs or alcohol, suicidal ideation, homicidal ideation. These are all very, very serious things. ⁓ I did touch on steroids and gambling real quick. I think they get glossed over a little bit and minimized, but I would also add to somebody is this, is if you're a middle-aged male and you have a hormonal imbalance and some. PEDs are gonna help you. Yeah, that might be in your best interest, right? So there you go. I can come up with scenarios where I go yes or no, and I can change my mind tomorrow. Some people don't particularly like that thing, but as I always say, as a human being, our greatest two abilities, number one is our ability to change our mind, especially in the face of new evidence. And I would say that is something I pride myself on being able to do, is change my mind with new evidence. And then that second ability, which might be the first ability is our availability to our friends and family. psychedelic drugs or street drugs or alcohol or steroids or gambling or any of that stuff is distracting you from the things that are most important to you, ⁓ I would say who cares how you got there? It's definitely a problem. The American Medical Association would say ⁓ a disease. ⁓ I would say as licensed professional counselor, right, a doctor of education and a recovery and drug addict I would say it is a combination of things. It's a disease, there is a genetic predisposition that's hard to refute at this point. There's enough data to support that, but it is very much a choice. And I think that beautiful intersection of that is what gives people hope in the belief that they can potentially get clean and sober or recover from trauma or whatever it is that they're dealing with. And I think that we as individuals hold a very, very serious responsibility in terms of determining. how to heal, get better, or grow. We're in those two seasons, healing or growth. Hey, I'm gonna introduce this substance or this behavior into my life. Is it to promote healing or is it to promote growth? And I think those are the two conversations that people need to have. And that's why if it's working with a professional and a team of people to figure out, biologically and medically, do I have the ability to withstand and endure these particular treatments? My kidney, my liver, my pancreas, whatever else is going on. and then working with the person to talk through some of the psychological aspects of it. And somebody in the health professions is probably most trained and that has the niche specialty in psychedelic drugs. But I would be mindful. I would always be mindful. And I'd ask that question, hey doc, if I start this medication or if I go through this treatment, how does it stop? How does it end? And I think those are just responsible questions to ask. All right. We're going to talk about competitive advantages. We ended up talking about drugs, all that stuff. Man, May 14th, Thursday at Stockton, Manahawken, we're having a little CEU. So if you're a counselor, a social worker, and or somebody that works with adolescents, we'd love to have you. Yeah, gonna be good. All right, cheers.