Latest / Remember Why You Are Here / Rewilding Intuition & Soul Tarot with Lindsay Mack

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Rewilding Intuition & Soul Tarot with Lindsay Mack · Remember Why You Are Here

• 0:10
  Lindsay,
• 0:11
  thank you so much for coming here and being on the podcast.
• 0:16
  I'm seriously so delighted that you're joining us.
• 0:19
  My God, this is the joy of my life. I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:24
  Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:26
  Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I mean, yeah, this is a dream come true. I'm so,
• 0:31
  so delighted that you're here.
• 0:32
  And the timing couldn't be more perfect because your book and your deck
• 0:37
  are about to come out and we're going to talk about that today on the podcast
• 0:41
  because I'm just so excited for you.
• 0:44
  I'm so excited for the world that your book,
• 0:48
  Tarot for the Wild Soul is coming out, is going to be available.
• 0:51
  And then it's coming out with this insanely gorgeous deck, the Soul Tarot Deck.
• 0:55
  And I can be a little bit snobby sometimes about decks.
• 1:00
  I have my preferences. Please. Yes.
• 1:02
  I like what I like and everything that I've seen, all of the imagery,
• 1:06
  it is so beautiful.
• 1:08
  Thank you.
• 1:09
  It's so soulful. I mean, everything you do is so soulful. Thank you.
• 1:13
  I'm just so excited that everyone gets to experience this. So before we begin,
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  I'm going to read your official bio so people know who you are and who I'm
• 1:20
  talking to, and then we're going to launch in.
• 1:23
  Okay.
• 1:23
  Lindsay Mack is an intuitive tarot teacher, author, podcast host, Death Doula,
• 1:29
  and the founder of Tarot for the Wild Soul. Through the beloved workshops,
• 1:32
  retreats and online tarot courses,
• 1:34
  Lindsay has had the profound honor of teaching soul tarot to many tens of
• 1:39
  thousands of students from all around the world. As a queer,
• 1:43
  neurodivergent and now joyful survivor of childhood abuse,
• 1:46
  living with complex PTSD and chronic pain,
• 1:49
  Lindsay is passionately dedicated to honoring and helping to bring space, light,
• 1:53
  and healing to those who are experiencing mental, emotional,
• 1:56
  or physical suffering. Their first book, Tarot for the Wild Soul and Tarot Deck,
• 2:01
  The Soul Tarot Deck will be released on May 19th of this month by
• 2:06
  Running Press. So Lindsay,
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  I can't even remember the first time I heard about you.
• 2:14
  It was before I even met you and I ended up meeting you at a gathering.
• 2:19
  And then I put two and two together who I was talking to. I was like,
• 2:22
  "It's the Lindsay Mack." But I mean,
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  I know so many people who have been listening to your intuitive
• 2:31
  readings now for, I mean, years, years and years and years.
• 2:36
  Every month religiously tuning in,
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  you are such a clear channel and not only do you
• 2:43
  receive so much and share so much with us,
• 2:47
  but you do it in a way where it really meets people.
• 2:53
  A lot of people talk about being trauma informed and trauma aware, but
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  you embody that and you live in that and inside of that in a way that is just,
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  it's always felt so comforting for me. I've always felt so seen.
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  And I know that that's a huge reason why so many of my
• 3:12
  dearest friends just have adored you for so,
• 3:15
  so long and continue to be devotees of your work.
• 3:19
  And so I want to say thank you for that. I know that we in particular,
• 3:24
  we met at this gathering like 10 years ago or something,
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  and then we connected, reconnected after our daughters were born,
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  which was a really big deal.
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  We were kind of on a very similar wave because they were born about a month
• 3:41
  apart. And I know that in those early times,
• 3:44
  just exchanging emails with you was just so helpful for me.
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  It just felt so grounding.
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  I felt less alone and I've just been really honored to be in deeper connection
• 3:54
  with you over these past few years.
• 3:57
  Oh, Asia. I mean,
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  right back at you a thousand times over with regard
• 4:02
  to everything that you shared.
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  It's a gift and a blessing to know you. It was,
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  and God bless you for your willingness.
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  I just cold emailed you and I was like, "Hi,
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  I know we're both in early postpartum. This is a nightmare.
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  How are you doing?" And I remember also right around the time where I sent that
• 4:23
  email economically things were really shaky and I was like, "Is that just me?
• 4:28
  ".
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  And I was like, "No".
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  What are we doing?" Yeah,
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  you were so warm and lovely and just like,
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  "Hi." It meant the world to me. It was such an important lifeline,
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  even just those emails in those days. And yeah, same.
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  I mean, when I came up to you at that gathering, I was a fan,
• 4:52
  so it means a lot to hear that from you and your words mean so
• 4:57
  much to me.
• 4:58
  Just thank you so much for all that you had to say about the podcast and my
• 5:02
  approach. It's incredibly meaningful.
• 5:06
  Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, it's just my joy.
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  And I think we all need mirrors like this for each other.
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  And I think that that's so much of too what we are doing in our work
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  is just being like that benevolent mirror so folks can see themselves clearly
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  and- I agree. Yeah. And you're so good at that.
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  So let's dive into some of the questions I have for you here today.
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  We're going to just see where we go, but this is an exciting moment.
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  When this podcast comes out, it's going to be right as your book is coming out.
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  So excited.
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  So there's going to be a lot of momentum around this and I'm super excited for
• 5:42
  you. So the book is called Tarot for the Wild Soul,
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  and your body of work as a whole is called Tarot for the Wild Soul. And.
• 5:49
  Yes.
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  Some folks might be really new to you. So I'm curious,
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  what does it mean to you to have a wild soul?
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  And this might've changed over the years.
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  I know when we have long-term businesses, things like this, our conceptions,
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  our frameworks change, but from where you are right now,
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  what does it mean to you to have a wild soul?
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  And how do you know if maybe you've lost touch with yours
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  or you know really, I think even better,
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  how do you know when you are in touch with it?
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  I love that question. So it's useful for me to meditate on that.
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  What does it mean for me today?
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  Well, first and foremost, I think, and I know you'll understand this,
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  you're so deeply in touch with this too,
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  your work encompasses the wild so profoundly and beautifully.
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  I think that to
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  aim to be in connection and contact with our
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  wild soul to me is to be in
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  touch with and in contact with the
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  real essence of you, letting it be as it is.
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  And I think about the concept,
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  which I know you're familiar with, of Rewilding,
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  which is a kind of a form of ecological restoration where humans do
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  as little as possible,
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  where we're looking at an area in nature that's been over-harvested,
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  overrun, which I don't know that we can get away with.
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  The idea of purity,
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  I think is something that we sometimes connect with wildness. And I'd love to
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  gently
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  lift the mantle of pressure off of that because for nature,
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  it might be pollution, it might be dams,
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  it might be overinsertion, but for human beings,
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  there's colonialism and there's white supremacy and there's
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  ableism and there's lots of systemic harms that even if
• 8:00
  someone is sitting there thinking, "Well, oh,
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  those things don't affect me personally." Gently, they do,
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  they do affect all of us, even those of us with privilege. So I think
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  the things that can be the dykes and dams around our
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  wild soul are sometimes it can be so well-meaning,
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  subtle or really overt over
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  insertions from caretakers, from society,
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  from community that invited you to not trust yourself,
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  that invited you to put your intuition aside,
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  parts of your identity,
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  parts of who you are that were never really given a chance to flower open in
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  one way or another. I think to be in connection with whatever our wild soul
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  means also means that if you're a lilac,
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  you let yourself be that and you don't try to be a Sequoia. Or if you're moss,
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  you don't feel the pressure to have to be anything else.
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  We're just knowing that we change over this time in life,
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  really a gradual willingness to be aware what was
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  placed in the garden of my life by me, by others,
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  maybe through no fault of anyone,
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  what is it to devote and dedicate ourselves to the lifelong work of gently
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  in terms of rewilding, noticing where there's been an overintervention,
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  gently removing it and then letting that area take itself back.
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  So to me,
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  I think it probably would've given you a different answer years before,
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  but to me, I think that's what I connect with now.
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  Well, what you shared right now speaks so much to me,
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  Lindsay.
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  It's like there's this reclamation of the word wild even that you're doing in
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  the wholeness of this description that
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  wildness is essential self,
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  that it is the essential wholeness that can actually never be changed.
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  It can just be covered and uncovered.
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  And I absolutely love the way in which you tie this into
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  the intuitive work that you do that so much of this is about returning to just
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  our essential selves. If you're a lilac, be a lilac. If you're a Sequoia,
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  be a Sequoia.
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  And there's so much liberation in that at the same time that we're,
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  and I love that you named this,
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  divorcing it from the whole purity culture idea of what wild is or
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  wilderness is,
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  and all the ways in which we just subconsciously start putting
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  those pressures on ourselves,
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  even on our journeys of healing and self-discovery and self-acceptance that
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  somehow then it has to be perfect or we have to get to this place where we're
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  always in alignment with ourselves, never making mistakes,
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  always able to hear intuition clearly, whatever that is,
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  but that's not the wild soul.
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  I don't think so. Yeah, I agree.
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  Especially not being in a human body. That's not how it works.
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  Just not.
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  How it works.
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  Yes. And I think I also want to say that I think sometimes when folks
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  who've been in their practice for a while speak about this, sometimes,
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  I don't know, for me, I don't know, maybe this is just the way my brain works.
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  I just also want to name, I am a student of this craft too.
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  I'm still noting where ableism lives in me.
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  I'm still aware of,
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  I'm still actively working on things that happened in my childhood,
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  like patterns and working through stuff like invitations into
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  projection around what my child is going through and being like,
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  "That's something you went through.
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  Where's that coming from?" And this is day one stuff, of course,
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  but stuff that, I don't know, somewhere in me,
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  I thought maybe I've evolved beyond that. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
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  So I'm still very much on the path as well.
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  Well, I feel like to me,
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  one thing that makes you such a role model is the fact that you are
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  willing to be honest about being in process.
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  Yes.
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  And this is just, it's true for everyone. It's true for all of us.
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  And I've said this before with what I teach, I'm like,
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  I teach what I need to hear. That's what I teach.
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  I teach what I'm learning right now.
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  I'm teaching what I need to hear and understand and go deeper into.
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  And I think that in some ways it's so
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  empowering to hear folks who are holding space or in the
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  craft or whatever it is, speaking honestly about the fact that, yeah,
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  we're in process That's a lifelong thing. Yes, it is.
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  That only ends when we die,
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  and so we'll be doing it until that point. Yes,
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  absolutely. It's so important to name.
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  And I feel like it dovetails so, not dovetails. I mean,
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  it's so interwoven with the way that you approach tarot
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  and intuition in general, but tarot in particular, how, I mean,
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  for most of my life,
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  working and hearing about tarot from the time I first got my first deck when I
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  was like 14 or something, everything that we hear about the tarot is predictive.
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  It's like you get your tarot deck to find out,
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  do they like me or do they not like me or whatever it is. Of course,
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  we desire that. We're like so human.
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  It's such a human thing to want to know and predict the future.
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  And that a lot of people have had the experience myself included of that sort of
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  continually falling flat.
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  It's almost like the vibrancy that's possible with the cards doesn't come
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  through when we're coming at it from that model. And so you have a very
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  explicitly non-predictive model with tarot Which I love.
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  And it feels so liberating to me. The way you talk about Tarot is my favorite.
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  This is why I'm so excited for everyone to have your book.
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  And so I'm curious,
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  how do you help people shift away from using Tarot to find out what's going to
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  happen to using it to remember who they are?
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  First of all, again, honored, love you, right back at you. That's number one.
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  Number two, so
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  I think that for me,
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  when I started reading, similar age, got my first tech at 12 or 13,
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  it was a very straightforward thing for me because I think when you
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  start reading at such a young age,
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  it's really very easy to see
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  where the overcultural
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  kind of wave of the way we talk about tarot in quotes
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  with all due respect to the thought leaders and teachers who came
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  before me, because they had, I think, a lot harder of a path than I did,
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  it just completely falls flat. It just totally falls flat.
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  When you're 12 or 13,
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  there's so much of the definitions mean absolutely nothing to you.
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  Justice has always talked about court cases and maybe,
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  I guess, for some 12-year-olds and 13-year-olds, they're dealing with that,
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  but for most of us,
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  they're not. So it was really easy for me to see very early.
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  It's not even like it's a wrong right. It just,
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  unless I think you are honoring here some
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  cultural context like Romani tarot readers who have a closed practice that
• 16:05
  is rooted in future telling,
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  potentially depending on the practice,
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  I'm not speaking for all Romani tarot readers,
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  but have a closed practice that is rooted in cartomancy where I think there is
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  more ability or more gifts or more inherited wisdom with regard to that.
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  But for most of us, that's not our medicine. And for most of us,
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  if we're talking about consistency, which is very helpful to the nervous system,
• 16:31
  tarot just doesn't do it. It just doesn't do it. It's not that then ...
• 16:36
  And the problem
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  with ascribing it to prediction is that it makes the user feel that
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  they've done something wrong.
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  If they got a card that feels like it ripped the rug
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  out from under them, and maybe it's worse,
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  maybe it's not as bad, maybe it's just the same,
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  they can feel like their spirit helpers are punking them,
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  their spirit helpers are tricking them,
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  which is a massive betrayal,
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  especially when we're so vulnerable going to the stack with our ...
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  So for me, the way that
• 17:15
  I help people is by just first and foremost acknowledging with
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  immense respect and gentleness for me. And I think for a
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  great many of us, it's never worked,
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  just doesn't work, right?
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  Totally acknowledging there are some people with gifts, again,
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  with inherited practices for whom it does work.
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  And I think even for those folks,
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  they deserve on certain days for certain readings to know that
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  sometimes it just doesn't necessarily flow in that direction.
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  So then we have to think about, well, what else?
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  Why else would we use this tool? And to me,
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  knowing that I don't speak for everyone,
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  I've never really seen much in the way of evidence that the future is fixed.
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  I think the power and empowerment that we have as human beings is so enormous to
• 18:09
  be able to influence and
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  move things with regard to taking action, doing things.
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  So I think the tarot is incredible
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  because when we do have agency,
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  it can provide that clarity. And when we don't,
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  it can provide nourishment and scaffolding to say,
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  "We don't have the ability to move,
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  but here's what might be possible. Here's an anchor.
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  Here's something that could hold you in this moment where you don't really have
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  much in the way of choice, but you can come home still to this
• 18:53
  moment." And I don't know where that ...
• 18:57
  It probably has a lot to do with my own experiences, how I was raised,
• 19:02
  that I didn't have a lot of choice and had to deal with a lot of
• 19:07
  very impossible and completely unfair
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  and unforgiving situations as a young person,
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  which then continued into young adulthood. And now I'm still dealing with,
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  because I'm a person on this earth and I don't have choice about some things.
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  So it's a very helpful tool no matter what
• 19:29
  to be able to come home to what is, what's possible, what might be.
• 19:36
  But yeah, it really does fall flat.
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  And I think
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  the model of prediction that all of us kind of know as
• 19:48
  being just the gold standard of how tarot is used, first,
• 19:53
  we have to acknowledge that that comes from appropriation and that's for
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  those of us who are practicing it that way,
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  I'm not accusing anybody of appropriating,
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  it's just the system of appropriation that happened with Romani Tarot readers of
• 20:07
  the day who weren't given their due.
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  And if anybody wants more information about that,
• 20:12
  I highly recommend the Romanistan podcast and the work of Jezmina Von Thiele and
• 20:18
  Paulina Stevens, who are incredible and are doing so much education about that.
• 20:25
  We didn't know. Now we do. We just have more information.
• 20:28
  So there is some awareness of the fact that because it's not our
• 20:33
  medicine, it doesn't work for a lot of us. So there's that.
• 20:38
  And that's amazing because we can drop it.
• 20:42
  There's totally another way to work with these cards. And two,
• 20:46
  I think there was a really nice attempt to try to get everybody
• 20:51
  reading with ease, which is why there's such shorthand.
• 20:55
  It's like cups are about love. Pentacles about money.
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  It's just what everybody ...
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  It's the automatic of what everybody needs and wants and
• 21:05
  how can we help? How can we shorthand it?
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  So I see the benefit in that.
• 21:11
  It just completely does not work.
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  It doesn't work at all. And I wish it did. I mean, God,
• 21:21
  like you, I mean, I was like, oh my God,
• 21:23
  I've got it made. This is going to tell me what's up.
• 21:28
  Come on. So again, this is not a call-out.
• 21:32
  It's a point of empathy and solidarity.
• 21:35
  I wanted that and discovered this doesn't work for anyone
• 21:40
  and is super inconsistent and unreliable. And so my approach to tarot,
• 21:45
  which is called Soul Tarot,
• 21:47
  is just rooted in curiosity about what might happen if you drop that and you
• 21:51
  open to what might be.
• 21:53
  It reminds me of something I wrote when I wrote a blurb for your book after I
• 21:57
  read it.
• 21:58
  Thank you so much, by the way.
• 21:59
  Yeah, absolutely. And I don't remember the exact wording,
• 22:02
  but what I wanted to express was that
• 22:06
  this way of working with a tarot is meeting where we're at now as a collective.
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  It's like the way you present it,
• 22:13
  it's meeting where we are at in an emergent way in the collective.
• 22:17
  And it's almost this level too where it's like,
• 22:21
  what would we even do if we know the future? I mean, really,
• 22:25
  what would you actually even do with that? We don't even- It's a great point.
• 22:28
  ... have the ability to even use that in a useful way where we're so ...
• 22:34
  I mean, bless our hearts,
• 22:35
  it's like we grew up in such intense times that
• 22:40
  the desire to want to control is just so big and it's inside all of us.
• 22:45
  It just is part of it.
• 22:47
  And so how would that be helpful to even know that?
• 22:52
  But what is helpful is getting that anchor, as you call it,
• 22:56
  which I want to go to that next,
• 22:58
  but getting that anchor point or that point where you can
• 23:03
  see and understand where you're at,
• 23:06
  understand what energies are moving through you right now,
• 23:09
  what you're being asked to respond to in terms of what is present.
• 23:13
  I think about when I was pregnant, I kept picking The Tower card.
• 23:19
  It was like, "Oops, all towers." And
• 23:25
  I remember being like, "Nope, no, no, no,
• 23:28
  no." That was kind of my energy around it. And I look back on it,
• 23:33
  and it was one tower after another for me,
• 23:37
  100% the entire experience, pregnancy, birth, postpartum for me, many,
• 23:42
  many towers falling.
• 23:46
  Only tower. Same.
• 23:47
  And I look back on, I'm like, oh, I mean,
• 23:51
  I was in such a fear place too where I was like, cannot look at that right now.
• 23:55
  But I'm like, what if I had been able to just meet it as like, "Hey, babe,
• 24:00
  this is actually already where you're at right now." And at the time it
• 24:05
  was. I just wasn't able to actually embrace that or adjust to that or
• 24:10
  acknowledge that inside of myself. But what have I been able to be like, "Babe,
• 24:14
  this is already happening and I'm literally just coming up to help you
• 24:20
  so that you don't feel so alone or this catastrophe is just happening upon you,
• 24:25
  but that there's possibility here within how you respond
• 24:30
  to this present moment and how you sit with yourself." And I just think that
• 24:35
  what you teach is exactly that.
• 24:37
  And so I want to touch on this idea of the anchor card because you brought it up
• 24:41
  before. And I just love it because while you were talking about the simplicity,
• 24:45
  how we were handed these super simplistic definitions of the cards,
• 24:49
  as you were talking, I was thinking, oh,
• 24:52
  what we need is not super simplistic definitions of the card.
• 24:55
  We need simpler practices for working with them so that we can receive
• 25:00
  the complexity of the messages inside of the card.
• 25:03
  So tell us more about what this practice of the anchor card is.
• 25:08
  Yes. So I think people know this because I think you're going to share it,
• 25:13
  but the essence of the practice that I developed and teach,
• 25:17
  and this will connect to the question is Soul Tarot,
• 25:20
  which is a non-predictive trauma informed,
• 25:25
  trauma sensitive, heart-led, inclusive
• 25:30
  way of approaching the cards in a way that we aim
• 25:35
  to do it for the present moment. We aim to do it with compassion,
• 25:38
  with common sense, with critical thoughtfulness. And
• 25:45
  tarot anchoring or anchor cards, which is, I mean,
• 25:49
  lots of people refer to tarot as an anchor,
• 25:51
  but the specificity of the practice of anchor cards as I teach it
• 25:57
  came from a moment very similar to what you're describing
• 26:03
  where I kept pulling the same card over and over and over again,
• 26:06
  and I couldn't find any medicine in it.
• 26:10
  I couldn't find any peace in it.
• 26:12
  I was not able to find any relief in that. And it was a very
• 26:17
  specific moment in time where
• 26:21
  my deck couldn't have given me anything that would've helped.
• 26:25
  It was like acknowledgements of the moment I found myself in were very
• 26:29
  activating.
• 26:30
  I didn't believe the cards that promised there's something
• 26:35
  on the other side of this that will be peaceful when there were any that were
• 26:40
  somewhat spiky, it was an enormous response.
• 26:45
  And it was really heartbreaking because it was the first situation that I felt
• 26:48
  like I couldn't go to my deck without feeling activated when it's
• 26:52
  always a refuge for me. So yeah,
• 26:57
  I just was kind of like, "Well, there are no rules. I can do whatever I want.
• 27:00
  " So I thought I definitely don't need to know
• 27:05
  what I'm in because I know I don't need to know ...
• 27:10
  There are alternative questions that are usually helpful. They were not.
• 27:16
  So
• 27:18
  the practice in the essence of tarot cards is that you get to pick the
• 27:23
  card that you want to pull closer to you in the moment that you need it. So
• 27:28
  if you know you're in a tower or you see the tower,
• 27:32
  I'll provide two examples actually.
• 27:35
  So example number one is you're in just a suspended moment in
• 27:40
  time where everything is just intense. It's stressful. Usually
• 27:46
  some similar ingredients for many people who might choose to do this are
• 27:50
  like,
• 27:51
  "We don't know what's going to happen." And in a very big and suspended and
• 27:55
  lengthy way, our nervous systems are, it's so intense to be like,
• 27:59
  "I have no idea what this is going to be." So let's just say
• 28:05
  we want The Sun card.
• 28:09
  Let's just say we want The Star card. Let's say we want The Empress.
• 28:12
  Let's say we want The Emperor. It really doesn't matter what card you want,
• 28:16
  but you pick it, you put it in front of you,
• 28:19
  and you can do a couple of things with it. One,
• 28:23
  you can just start drawing in associations. If you're looking at the way we
• 28:28
  might use an anchor, and this is anecdotal on my part,
• 28:32
  but in a psychological way,
• 28:33
  if we're using a photo or a poem or a memory of someone,
• 28:37
  we're doing the stitching work,
• 28:39
  the tapestry work to anchor that in when we're not activated.
• 28:43
  So it's one of those things where if we really love the star card and if we want
• 28:48
  to remember in a difficult time, there's no winter without spring,
• 28:53
  not possible. So no matter how bad this is,
• 28:57
  no matter how much my brain is saying, we're cooked, this is it,
• 29:03
  we're never done, even if we might not be there to see it,
• 29:06
  but there's never a finish point.
• 29:10
  So we might put that in front of us and then we might notice a poem that reminds
• 29:15
  us of that, a song. We might remember a place in nature.
• 29:19
  I talk about this in the book, but Windy Ridge up on Mount St.
• 29:24
  Helens, which is the blast zone where the eruption occurred,
• 29:29
  it's a place I go to all the time when I think, "Well,
• 29:33
  we're never going to get through this. " I'm like, "Well,
• 29:35
  that landscape is living proof that you can hold both,
• 29:38
  so how can you be different? You're not that special.
• 29:43
  You can't be more special than that land." That helps me.
• 29:48
  So remembering that, sometimes even just notes on my phone,
• 29:52
  so simple where I can find it outside of the
• 29:57
  practice of reading.
• 29:59
  I don't have to go to my deck and be hit with a surprise.
• 30:03
  I can work with just memory anchor points,
• 30:07
  little lighthouses,
• 30:08
  constellations of them. The other way that we can work with something
• 30:13
  like that is let's say we pull The Star for an anchor, we can stitch together
• 30:21
  deeper questions that are wrapped around that card.
• 30:24
  So we can say for The Star,
• 30:26
  how can I connect more fully with this card in this moment of my life?
• 30:31
  And we can pull a card for that.
• 30:33
  How can I draw upon the greatest degree of support from this card right
• 30:38
  now? We can pull a card for that. So we're controlling the pull,
• 30:42
  but letting it blossom within those conditions.
• 30:45
  And I find that when our nervous systems for one reason or another
• 30:51
  don't have our normal degree of capacity to cope with any old card,
• 30:55
  this is a really respectful and lovely and expansive way of connecting.
• 31:00
  So that's kind of option one.
• 31:03
  And the other option that we might work with might be that
• 31:08
  we kind of do something similar with the card that you
• 31:13
  pulled. So let's say we pull The Tower over and over and over and over again.
• 31:18
  And I'm sure you did this, Asia,
• 31:19
  but for anybody else who might be out there who might be like, "Oh my God,
• 31:23
  I'm in the exact same situation." It can be really helpful to ask questions of
• 31:27
  the card and just be like, "Why do you keep coming up, exactly? And
• 31:33
  I'm also, this is really, I don't know,
• 31:36
  potentially controversial for some ...
• 31:39
  I've never actually faced controversy for it. It's a soft controversy.
• 31:43
  It's very hyperbolic.
• 31:44
  But I really believe in the power and the medicine of just pulling a card out of
• 31:49
  the deck that is, you're getting it a thousand times.
• 31:53
  The way that I look at it is like, okay, I know you're here.
• 31:57
  What I need to know is how to deal with what you're bringing.
• 32:01
  So I'm not interested and it's not actually all that useful to see you. So
• 32:06
  thank you. Not bypassing it, but I'm going to put you in a drawer for now.
• 32:09
  And then I kind of make a deal with my guides and I'm like,
• 32:13
  "You have to figure out a different way to tell me what you're telling me."
• 32:18
  There are other little tweaks that you can do too.
• 32:23
  If I feel like I'm in a moment of really being in the intense
• 32:28
  kind of tractor beam of a card,
• 32:30
  sometimes I'll only work with minors and court cards because we don't usually
• 32:34
  have to surrender to a minor in a court card in the same way we do a major.
• 32:39
  So all kinds of little tweaky things to feel like in this moment
• 32:44
  when I'm just in tower, on top of tower, on top of tower,
• 32:48
  I have some agency here. So
• 32:53
  that's the structure.
• 32:55
  Well, that was exactly the word I was going to use too.
• 32:58
  And just hearing the whole structure is agency.
• 33:01
  It's like actually giving people agency through working with the cards
• 33:06
  instead of feeling like it's yet another system that
• 33:11
  is actually stripping away agency or is controlling their fate or any of those
• 33:16
  things.
• 33:17
  It's like the way that these models work is you're actually giving people agency
• 33:21
  again within this practice that is meant to help you.
• 33:25
  It's meant to be supportive for you
• 33:29
  and that it's possible for it to be supportive no matter what card you pull
• 33:33
  because within this framework, it's like, yeah, you have the agency,
• 33:37
  you only work with certain decks or suites or put away that card that keeps
• 33:41
  showing up. And all of that brings us deeper into relationship with ourselves,
• 33:47
  which is really the point, which is the heart of all of this,
• 33:51
  is reconnecting to our essential selves. And I
• 33:56
  think you just touched on this in what we were talking about, but I love,
• 34:01
  because I had this question for you of this idea of the card that keeps coming
• 34:06
  back
• 34:09
  And how sometimes what we need to do is actually stop hyper
• 34:14
  fixating or focusing on that one thing and expand the gaze a little bit
• 34:19
  wider and be like, "What's surrounding this? Who can come help me with this?
• 34:22
  " And I think we can definitely get that hyper-focused sort of
• 34:27
  vibe going on and then it can disrupt our ability to receive the nourishment
• 34:31
  that is there for us. So I'm curious how you think this fits in too,
• 34:36
  because I know a lot of the community that
• 34:41
  surrounds my work and the community that surrounds your work are people who feel
• 34:45
  really deeply and have been through a lot in their lives and have often
• 34:50
  been told that they're deep feeling, their emotionality, their sensitivity,
• 34:54
  their neurodivergence, whatever it is, that it's a problem.
• 34:57
  And I see for a lot of folks this sort of rupture that's happened
• 35:03
  where there's a tendency to distrust their own perception.
• 35:07
  And that this can come up for people when you're like, okay, when I'm going
• 35:12
  off book or off guidebook and I'm just trying to receive for myself,
• 35:17
  how do I trust what I'm perceiving, especially ...
• 35:22
  And this question comes up all the time,
• 35:25
  Lindsay. If I could pick the number one question that people ask me,
• 35:28
  it would probably be this, is how do I tell the difference between intuition.
• 35:31
  Yeah.
• 35:32
  And that brain voice, that sort of fear-based brain voice?
• 35:37
  And so this is kind of a multifaceted question, but yeah,
• 35:42
  what would you say to someone who's like,
• 35:43
  how do I trust my perception and how do I know that this is coming from this
• 35:48
  deeper place of intuition and not like I'm just being led down this
• 35:53
  path? That's my brain being very scared.
• 35:56
  Oh my God. I mean, this is the question.
• 36:00
  And I know I appreciate your trusting me with it because I know you
• 36:06
  do get asked this and you answer it really beautifully.
• 36:08
  And I think a lot of what I have to share is very similar to how you probably
• 36:13
  answer it to your students and to the folks that you work with.
• 36:20
  Okay. So
• 36:24
  one of the ways that
• 36:30
  the mind and intuition behave and communicate totally
• 36:35
  differently from one another, totally differently, that we can trust.
• 36:41
  And I try really hard for the most part to be
• 36:46
  super transparent. I am no all- knowing person.
• 36:50
  I'm not the end all be all on what your intuition is,
• 36:53
  what your guides sound like. If you even work with guides,
• 36:55
  because we can be intuitive without any kind of belief system in anything
• 37:01
  larger than us or nature or whatever. But
• 37:06
  I believe that the core of the inner voice is
• 37:11
  one that guides drop into rather than it being ruled
• 37:16
  by them. And it's the same cadence both ways.
• 37:21
  It'll just take on different amplifications depending on what we choose to work
• 37:26
  with.
• 37:29
  If you're worried about is this true or not,
• 37:33
  chances are there's something to the message you're getting and the brain might
• 37:38
  be really scared about it. In general,
• 37:43
  I find that if something is admonishing,
• 37:47
  annoyed, angry, critical, a should, a you ought to,
• 37:52
  if it feels like a warning, an omen,
• 37:56
  if there's an undercurrent of emergence,
• 37:59
  if it's telling you you have to do something immediately,
• 38:03
  it's your brain every single time. It was really interesting actually,
• 38:08
  and just the gentlest content warning for anybody who just doesn't want
• 38:13
  to hear, I'll keep it super light,
• 38:15
  anything at all about emergency medical situations,
• 38:19
  but had a situation after I gave birth where I had to actually call an ambulance
• 38:24
  and it was an emergency situation.
• 38:28
  And I remember while I was on the floor tuning in and being like,
• 38:33
  "Am I going to be okay? What do I do? " And the voice was very, it was like,
• 38:38
  "You just need to call 911.
• 38:42
  You need to call 911." Even that was different than
• 38:48
  the siren that my brain was putting out there. My guides were like, "Oh yeah,
• 38:53
  you got to go to the hospital." But also it wasn't to scream,
• 38:57
  it was really different. So everyone is different. I don't speak for everybody,
• 39:02
  but generally speaking,
• 39:08
  if we're talking about intuition, our guides. Our guides,
• 39:11
  and this is any beloved figure, any beloved entity,
• 39:15
  energy out there who just loves you, holds you.
• 39:19
  It's an unconditionally loving chorus of support.
• 39:23
  You don't owe anything to this chorus. Technically speaking,
• 39:27
  we kind of do just by being citizens of the world, but also
• 39:33
  they're not holding any accounts.
• 39:37
  It's not love with an agenda. They just want to help,
• 39:41
  but you're in charge of your life.
• 39:44
  So I have often found that guides suggest, they invite,
• 39:49
  they welcome.
• 39:53
  Almost always my guides,
• 39:55
  what they have to say is far gentler and more expansive,
• 39:57
  even in difficult times than what my brain says. So
• 40:02
  it's tricky. It's a lifelong sense of teasing out.
• 40:07
  I've actually started to accept it as just a part of the life, just being like,
• 40:12
  "Oh, this doesn't end. It just keeps going.
• 40:14
  It just keeps spiraling." So that's one of the ways.
• 40:20
  The thing for anybody who's like, "Oh my God, how can I trust?
• 40:22
  How can I trust?" Two things I would say.
• 40:28
  In my experience,
• 40:30
  the spirit realm or the other side of the veil is kind of refreshingly clear
• 40:35
  in that if you say you don't want something, they'll actually listen to you,
• 40:40
  they'll go away. And if you say you want more, you'll get more.
• 40:44
  So I think that before we tune in and read,
• 40:48
  all that really is required for any kind of clarity or filtration
• 40:53
  system is just,
• 40:54
  I want to hear from any energy that has my highest and best in mind today.
• 40:59
  So it's just stating what you're available for. And by doing that,
• 41:04
  I think we state very clearly what we're not available for.
• 41:08
  And so when we do that, I like to really think of that as I've said it,
• 41:13
  I've named it in one way or another,
• 41:15
  and then it's about letting yourself be in the repetition
• 41:20
  of practice. The more you do it, the more you will really begin to see ...
• 41:26
  I think
• 41:28
  it feels kind of floppy. I don't know if this is anything.
• 41:33
  I'll put it down and I'll see if this comes back to me.
• 41:37
  But the other thing that helps me
• 41:42
  is when I remember that
• 41:46
  nature really adores me and I'm chosen
• 41:51
  and my guides really adore me and they want to,
• 41:56
  just like I think bodies try their best to get to a state of
• 42:01
  equilibrium and just like plants will do their best in the environment.
• 42:06
  I look at life and the world and the proliferation of
• 42:11
  any plant, any mycelium, anything.
• 42:16
  And I think, well,
• 42:19
  the essence of evolution and growth is to expand and to flower and in some cases
• 42:24
  to die. But if I'm asking for help,
• 42:28
  I really do believe that there is a generous universe that wants me to know
• 42:33
  what's important for me to know.
• 42:36
  And sometimes that can get really tricky when what we want to know lines up with
• 42:40
  what we hear. When it's like we want to get a certain kind of message and we do,
• 42:45
  it's very vulnerable to trust that.
• 42:52
  Everything stands to want to support you in
• 42:57
  being in alignment with your intuition and
• 43:02
  with helpful, growthful information,
• 43:07
  not only because it helps you,
• 43:10
  but because it helps on the planet, but it helps everybody.
• 43:17
  So there's something that I know you're familiar with because I'm assuming
• 43:20
  you've read The Way of the Rose. Yeah.
• 43:24
  I really appreciate ... I'm not a religious person, but as an ex- Catholic,
• 43:28
  I really
• 43:30
  was raised praying to Mary and still really enjoy that practice. And I like that
• 43:37
  Perdita Finn and Clark Strand speak to
• 43:41
  praying to Mary as not just one religious act,
• 43:46
  but like a whole universe of practice that's been whittled down and kind of
• 43:50
  co-opted by this religion. But they say like, any mother,
• 43:53
  Mary really wants you to have what you'd like.
• 43:56
  So they talk a lot about how like, don't just pray to Mary for what you need,
• 44:00
  really pray to her for what you like. And I like to put that
• 44:05
  on my tarot deck too. I'm like,
• 44:07
  I want to believe that you want me to have more than just the bare
• 44:13
  minimum. I don't know if that helps or makes sense,
• 44:18
  but that's what I got.
• 44:20
  Well, I absolutely love that.
• 44:21
  And everything you said was like literally the word in my head was like helpful.
• 44:25
  This is so helpful. Thank you. Yeah,
• 44:28
  so many gems in there and especially this overarching framework of like
• 44:34
  your guides, these forces that support you, they want you to flourish.
• 44:38
  They want you to connect to your intuition. They want you to get the message.
• 44:41
  There's actually so much that's working for you.
• 44:44
  And I love too that you mentioned this is a lifelong practice.
• 44:49
  And I know this is something we have talked about together and then we touch in
• 44:54
  a little bit on your podcast,
• 44:55
  but this idea that things are actually always changing in your
• 45:00
  intuitive life. And you have a course,
• 45:03
  intuition as a spiral or intuition as a spiral. And
• 45:09
  I was curious to drop into this next because I think the
• 45:14
  more life experience you have and the older you get, the more you realize, oh,
• 45:18
  nothing is linear. When I was in my 20s, I thought, okay,
• 45:20
  you get more and more and more intuitive and it just expands and you just have
• 45:26
  more access and it gets easier and easier. And then you go through life and you
• 45:30
  experience more, you have a child, whatever it is, and you're like, "Oh no,
• 45:35
  this is not nearly so linear." And so I was curious if you could speak to
• 45:40
  just your experience of intuition as a spiral and if you
• 45:45
  feel like it, if you want to,
• 45:47
  to speak to the experience in particular of becoming a parent,
• 45:51
  because I know that's been huge for me.
• 45:53
  And I know for a lot of folks in my audience,
• 45:55
  that's been a huge threshold and change.
• 45:58
  And often it's a change that then it's not talked about the ways in which this
• 46:02
  does affect our intuition, our practice, I mean every aspect of our life.
• 46:08
  Yes.
• 46:09
  I'm honored to share and love being in conversation with you about this always.
• 46:13
  We talked about this. Your interview with me is coming out.
• 46:17
  I believe when this drops,
• 46:20
  it will either be coming out around the same time or very soon.
• 46:25
  Yes.
• 46:27
  Intuition like all things is a spiral I think in that we
• 46:32
  do get to these places where there is a big stretch
• 46:37
  of awareness where I think we do reach these points where we're like, "Wow,
• 46:43
  I have come so far. There's so much to be gained here.
• 46:47
  I've learned so much. I have access to this part of me.
• 46:50
  " And then inevitably something happens in your life and you keep going. And
• 46:56
  I think spiral is really helpful because that is the symbol that has helped me
• 47:01
  most as a trauma survivor because often with trauma,
• 47:04
  it makes you feel like you're going back into something,
• 47:07
  which is devastating. It certainly was for me. And that idea of like, "Oh,
• 47:11
  it's impossible. You can't go back no matter what. You're only going forward,
• 47:16
  only growing, only learning,
• 47:17
  because that's also what we see everywhere around us." So
• 47:23
  how can we be different? That is very helpful for me to come back to.
• 47:29
  Being becoming a mother, man, I mean,
• 47:34
  I think that I have a teacher who I don't work
• 47:39
  with as much anymore named Michelle,
• 47:41
  who has just been so helpful to me because she really
• 47:45
  understands the intersection of biochemistry and
• 47:50
  intuition and how
• 47:54
  when you have a very, very, very loud brain, which I do,
• 47:59
  it can be really challenging to hear, perceive,
• 48:04
  understand your intuition, much less to trust it.
• 48:10
  So I could talk about this forever,
• 48:12
  but here are some of the things that I think motherhood has given me
• 48:17
  with regard to my intuition.
• 48:20
  Motherhood has made my brain noise louder.
• 48:25
  It has made it more difficult, I would say in general,
• 48:30
  to connect to my intuition. And it's sort of
• 48:37
  made the impact of the intuitive channeling
• 48:42
  I do feel more middling right now because
• 48:49
  there's so little space on my nervous system to actually let it land.
• 48:55
  But paradoxically,
• 48:56
  that has caused me to look more fully
• 49:01
  into support.
• 49:04
  I'm in the process of a giant multifaceted
• 49:09
  blood work journey right now to be like, "What in the fuck is going on?
• 49:12
  Sorry to curse." With all of this, cortisol, adrenals,
• 49:17
  hormones, oh my goodness.
• 49:21
  It's made it harder to connect. It's made it harder to trust, I would say.
• 49:27
  And yet
• 49:33
  it has really expanded my capacity to know
• 49:38
  things in a way that I didn't have before I became a mother.
• 49:42
  It's a little bit less about tuning in and feeling it and listening and
• 49:47
  more about, there's a shorthand now where I'm like, okay,
• 49:51
  I think I know enough to know if my brain's over here,
• 49:55
  I can just kind of quickly touch base. Okay,
• 49:59
  I have a sense of the direction, I'll go with that.
• 50:02
  And then there's a little bit more of a shorthand, there's a little bit more.
• 50:06
  And when I can actually let myself get quiet and have the space,
• 50:10
  it's so much more of a refreshing process than I think it was
• 50:15
  even before. So
• 50:19
  you're catching me at a moment with my motherhood journey.
• 50:24
  I think a year ago,
• 50:25
  I might have told you something different. Now my child's four and
• 50:31
  there's more issues now for me that are cropping up just with perimenopause and
• 50:35
  everything where it feels my guides are still coming through,
• 50:40
  but the chemistry is so divergent to what they're saying.
• 50:44
  I have a lot of practice with knowing that my chemistry doesn't tell the truth a
• 50:49
  great deal of the time.
• 50:50
  So there's a great many moments of
• 50:55
  my life. I would say the majority of my life is proceeding with what I'm hearing
• 51:01
  in my channel rather than what I'm feeling in the body,
• 51:05
  which I know is really different than how a lot of people work with intuition.
• 51:09
  Intuition has a lot less to do with feeling it than I think we give it credit
• 51:13
  for. I think for those of us who might have OCD,
• 51:18
  whatever,
• 51:19
  I often feel like something is wrong when it's precisely right.
• 51:24
  I often, often. So intuition's very helpful for me in that way.
• 51:31
  Yeah.
• 51:32
  I hate to not have a sugarcoated dovetail on that,
• 51:36
  but it definitely has made it so that
• 51:42
  it's a different container now. It's very different. I'm learning,
• 51:48
  proceeding with different structures and different things in place.
• 51:53
  And I have absolutely, even though my child's only four,
• 51:56
  have had the experience of, which a lot of parents talk about,
• 52:00
  especially mothers,
• 52:03
  I have a feeling something's going on with my kid and I can't tell
• 52:08
  you why, but I know and
• 52:12
  most of the time I'm right and some of the time I'm not,
• 52:16
  but it's mostly right.
• 52:21
  But I don't think that any of that is necessarily a
• 52:25
  problem.
• 52:27
  It's made me feel like very humble in the face of,
• 52:34
  because I'm still getting clear downloads, but
• 52:42
  the way that I'm tuning in, the capacity I have,
• 52:47
  the limited amount of space and time,
• 52:49
  I think is very humbling and has actually made me a little bit of a better
• 52:54
  intuition teacher because I think it has made me be like, "Oh yeah,
• 52:58
  some people just don't have any time. They have no space." And how does someone
• 53:02
  approach this if they've never had practice now?
• 53:07
  Yeah, I don't know. It's been very interesting.
• 53:14
  I still feel them,
• 53:17
  but it's a lot harder now to make the time.
• 53:23
  Yeah. And there's a lot less space to doubt to what's coming through.
• 53:28
  I'm like, "I just can't even ... Nope, don't have time." Yes, that's it.
• 53:31
  I guess that, I just need to write the thing. I just need to-.
• 53:33
  Yeah, I just have to do it. ...
• 53:35
  Record the podcast. You just have to do it. And so in that way,
• 53:39
  it's like a training ground of like, "Girl,
• 53:41
  you just don't have time even to doubt this right now." Yeah, the perfectionism.
• 53:45
  Let it flow. See what happens. Yes.
• 53:47
  Spending a week tuning in about the right name, I'm like, "This is the name.
• 53:52
  It's got to come out now." And
• 53:57
  if it doesn't feel wrong, it's just really different. It's.
• 54:01
  Really different. And I'm so glad you brought in the chemistry piece too,
• 54:05
  because I mean, that was so huge for me postpartum.
• 54:08
  I had pretty gnarly postpartum OCD and
• 54:13
  depression and anxiety. And I just remember being like,
• 54:19
  "Wow, I am so humbled right now by what my brain is doing,
• 54:25
  what I'm having to encounter." And it did point me towards lifelong
• 54:30
  patterns I had always had.
• 54:32
  I just had a lot more space and time to kind of just manage them.
• 54:36
  And I think that looking back now,
• 54:40
  I wouldn't change anything about my intuitive journey,
• 54:44
  but I look back on myself having done all these intuitive readings with parents.
• 54:49
  Now that I am a parent.
• 54:50
  I was like- Yeah, I understand.
• 54:52
  What.
• 54:52
  The fuck?
• 54:53
  I had no idea. I'm sure I said things that were helpful,
• 54:57
  but I think there's this reality in which you cannot know until you know.
• 55:02
  And to me,
• 55:04
  that's part of the goal of lived life experience.
• 55:09
  And I think why I believe as a species,
• 55:12
  we are built to have grandmothers and
• 55:17
  matriarchs and elders who have gone through this initiation leading
• 55:22
  us because we have been through all this,
• 55:24
  because we have gone through the fire.
• 55:28
  We have experienced these primary life experiences and
• 55:33
  obviously having a child's one of the biggest life experiences you could
• 55:37
  possibly have.
• 55:38
  And so I really want to say that I appreciate you so much for being honest about
• 55:42
  that because I think a lot of people are like, "What is wrong with me?
• 55:45
  " And I've had people even reflect back to me like,
• 55:48
  "You just seem like you had a child and just everything just kept expanding and
• 55:54
  it's not a problem." And I'm like,
• 55:55
  "Are you kidding me?" And it's been such a journey. So
• 56:01
  it's just the honesty around that feels so big. And I'm curious,
• 56:05
  we have a tiny little bit of an overlap here.
• 56:07
  My book came out when my child was five months old, so I wasn't writing it,
• 56:12
  but I did come out when she was very young. And that was a whole thing for me,
• 56:15
  very challenging in my nervous system. And I'm curious for you,
• 56:19
  you wrote your book During these early years.
• 56:23
  I did.
• 56:24
  Yeah. So just to bring it back to the book, I'm curious,
• 56:27
  what was that experience like? And at the same time,
• 56:30
  you're also running your podcast.
• 56:33
  You do brilliant one-on-one intuitive readings with people.
• 56:37
  And so yeah,
• 56:38
  I'm curious how that interwove with everything in such a big transitional
• 56:43
  moment.
• 56:45
  Well, I mean, I have to say, and I think I'm remiss in not,
• 56:50
  this is the one piece that is very important that I didn't bring,
• 56:54
  which is even though intuition has gotten harder to
• 57:00
  sort of make space for in the way that I used to,
• 57:04
  having my child becoming a mother and her presence on
• 57:08
  this planet has
• 57:13
  shifted me in ways that are more important than I could ever say.
• 57:18
  And it's my favorite job and the job I love to do most,
• 57:21
  and she is my favorite person. I love being a parent,
• 57:26
  and it has immeasurably improved my life in every way.
• 57:29
  But the process of having a baby has destroyed my
• 57:34
  hormonal and nervous system wellbeing,
• 57:38
  not my child's fault at all.
• 57:41
  So it was already a tenuous situation to begin with, to be honest.
• 57:45
  So it was a bold move on my part. Okay.
• 57:49
  I know that sometimes people say this and I'm like,
• 57:51
  "Ugh." But I don't totally remember how I did it.
• 57:57
  I know that
• 58:00
  it happened and then all of a sudden the book was finished.
• 58:03
  And the whole time in the year I wrote it, I was like,
• 58:07
  "I don't know how I'm going to do this. This is impossible. I can't do it".
• 58:13
  There was a lot of grief around,
• 58:15
  why didn't this happen before my daughter was born? like I was there.
• 58:19
  I was ready. Where was everyone? I was ready to go.
• 58:23
  But it was exactly the right time. It really, really was.
• 58:29
  I'm grateful for the timing. I am. It was wild.
• 58:34
  It really did take the cobbling together of the village that we had at the
• 58:39
  time without my partner,
• 58:42
  without our nanny who is now a beloved
• 58:47
  occasional babysitter, but who was coming three days a week at that time.
• 58:52
  We didn't have anybody else. I don't know how we would've done it.
• 58:55
  I just really don't. So yeah,
• 59:01
  it was a little bit, I think, like how I imagined having another baby would be.
• 59:05
  There was a lot of ... I was awake at all hours doing it.
• 59:08
  There was a lot of writing and editing after she went to bed.
• 59:16
  I don't know how we do it, but it's happening. That's the way that I look at it.
• 59:21
  I'm not quite sure how that's happening. But there were many times,
• 59:25
  even though I was like,
• 59:29
  "I just can't understand why this didn't happen a little earlier." In ways that
• 59:33
  are both kind of known to me and also not known to me,
• 59:36
  there's no way I could have ever written this book without becoming a mother.
• 59:41
  No way could I have done that.
• 59:44
  And my work has changed since becoming a mother. The structure, the container,
• 59:48
  how it's run has radically changed, even though it all,
• 59:53
  I think, looks the same to a certain extent. It's totally different.
• 59:57
  So that was all because Because I just couldn't devote the same
• 1:00:02
  time and energy that I used to devote before.
• 1:00:05
  So the structure had to change. And yeah,
• 1:00:10
  it was very magical, very powerful,
• 1:00:12
  and also a grind. A grind.
• 1:00:15
  Yeah. It's both.
• 1:00:18
  Yeah. Yeah. My daughter has been a really steady,
• 1:00:23
  reliable sleeper since she was born. Such a gift.
• 1:00:27
  I know the highest- You've.
• 1:00:28
  Been gifted.
• 1:00:29
  I know. With all of my friends who had colicky children,
• 1:00:33
  children who didn't sleep, I used to, when they'd talk about it, just be like,
• 1:00:37
  "I'm witnessing you. I'm just hearing that.
• 1:00:40
  I'll never complain ever." Can't complain, won't complain.
• 1:00:45
  You can still complain. You're allowed. You're still allowed.
• 1:00:48
  Yeah. That's true. I am, but also it's a whole different ballgame,
• 1:00:53
  whole different ball game. And
• 1:00:58
  I just had to be very economical. When she napped, I was like, "Okay,
• 1:01:01
  I'm going to try my best to do what I can do." So
• 1:01:06
  I think a lot about if I ever wrote another book,
• 1:01:10
  I think you and I talked about this. I think it would take years.
• 1:01:13
  I don't know how I would do it now.
• 1:01:16
  There's no nap and the days are much longer than they used to be now actually
• 1:01:20
  when she was younger. But yeah, it was wild.
• 1:01:25
  I think too, I think on your whole body of work and how
• 1:01:31
  you had built so much before having a child and then
• 1:01:36
  this book is like, it's a monument. It's so much that you've built.
• 1:01:41
  And so it's like you had this huge foundation and then you had this big
• 1:01:44
  initiation that made you the person really who could bring this book
• 1:01:49
  into form in a way that's just going to speak to even more people and help even
• 1:01:54
  more people. And so I just thank you for writing the book.
• 1:01:59
  Thank you to your partner and your nanny and all of this. Yeah, everybody.
• 1:02:03
  That supported you to make that possible because I really mean
• 1:02:08
  it that I think this book
• 1:02:11
  needs to be on everyone's shelf because the way that you
• 1:02:16
  talk about relating to intuition and to the cards and to this practice,
• 1:02:21
  it's so life giving. It's so life giving.
• 1:02:23
  And that's really what we need right now.
• 1:02:25
  And so I just want to close with this question and you can just let roll
• 1:02:29
  whatever wants to roll here.
• 1:02:31
  But I know we're living through such an intense,
• 1:02:35
  rapidly changing time right now. I mean, so, so much.
• 1:02:38
  And your intuition, what you pull through,
• 1:02:43
  your channel and the ways that you are, it's such a generous guidepost.
• 1:02:46
  And I love tuning into your podcasts. I love listening or reading your Substack.
• 1:02:51
  And so just as like a ... See what flows through, Lindsay.
• 1:02:55
  But I'm curious from your perspective for where we are right now collectively,
• 1:03:01
  what are we being asked to anchor into as we move through this time?
• 1:03:08
  The word that comes to mind is collaboration. I think
• 1:03:13
  there's a very interesting dance going on right now,
• 1:03:18
  which makes sense because it's a Wheel of Fortune year. And Wheel of Fortune,
• 1:03:25
  it's interesting. It's tricky.
• 1:03:28
  There's a little bit that Wheel of Fortune asks of us where
• 1:03:34
  I think on a certain level, Wheel of Fortune says,
• 1:03:39
  "If you do the work and if you prepare,
• 1:03:43
  you'll meet the moment." And some of the quote
• 1:03:48
  hard work is not stepping our foot on the gas pedal until the
• 1:03:52
  light turns green,
• 1:03:54
  which is tremendous in what it asks of us.
• 1:03:58
  So I think in some ways there's a sense of, "I want to do something.
• 1:04:03
  I want to change this.
• 1:04:05
  I want to go forward." And for a number of reasons,
• 1:04:09
  many of us feel like,
• 1:04:10
  "I just don't think I can or I'm not quite able to in the way that I'd want to."
• 1:04:17
  So the collaboration feels like a little bit of a collaboration with
• 1:04:22
  life, with the greater forces, with the overall spiral of life,
• 1:04:27
  like not pressing and revving before that light turns green.
• 1:04:35
  But then when it does, to actually be bold and brave enough to go, "Okay,
• 1:04:41
  I'm willing. I'm willing to go.
• 1:04:44
  I'm willing to move with this." So
• 1:04:48
  it's a very interesting time.
• 1:04:51
  I think collaboration has a lot of different meanings.
• 1:04:55
  And I'm noting for myself,
• 1:04:57
  now that we're four months in at the recording of this podcast anyway,
• 1:05:02
  I'm noting, oh, for me,
• 1:05:06
  some of the work that I have to do while the light is red is
• 1:05:11
  a little bit around myself and
• 1:05:18
  a little bit more
• 1:05:21
  cleaning my own house in terms of how I am tending to myself right
• 1:05:26
  now in this season. But for some people,
• 1:05:29
  it's totally different. So I think that collaboration process of,
• 1:05:34
  "Okay, I'm willing to look at this.
• 1:05:38
  I'm willing to ..." The last thing I'll say about this is
• 1:05:43
  Wheel of Fortune, which again, 2026 is a Wheel of Fortune year,
• 1:05:47
  Wheel of Fortune seems like it's such a big mover and a shaker and it is,
• 1:05:52
  but only in certain moments.
• 1:05:54
  There's a great deal of the time when we work with Wheel of Fortune where that
• 1:05:59
  larger wheel is kind of turning.
• 1:06:00
  We don't know quite how it's turning and what way it's turning,
• 1:06:03
  the direction it's going in,
• 1:06:05
  and we're not really being called upon to do anything.
• 1:06:07
  And one thing that we can do is just look around and be like, "Oh yeah,
• 1:06:11
  I have to take that teacup to the sink." So I'll do that.
• 1:06:17
  I got to chop apples for my child and I'll do that. There is very much
• 1:06:22
  a literally chop wood carry water aspect to this year
• 1:06:27
  that I think is really strange with regard to
• 1:06:32
  all of the enormity of what's going on and how disempowered so many of us feel.
• 1:06:38
  So collectively,
• 1:06:41
  an anchor is whatever the tea cup is on your table that maybe you're telling
• 1:06:46
  yourself is like, who even cares about the teacup? There's so much going on.
• 1:06:51
  I actually think it starts with the teacup and that feels like
• 1:06:56
  a collaboration of sorts to me.
• 1:07:00
  Yeah.
• 1:07:01
  Yeah.
• 1:07:02
  Yeah. I love that. And again, it's like bringing in this agency piece.
• 1:07:08
  How do we actually have fruitful collaboration? Well,
• 1:07:11
  we need to be in our agency and that other force also needs to be in their
• 1:07:15
  agency. And it's like recognizing the places we have agency of that chop wood,
• 1:07:19
  carry water kind of deal. This is what we're here for.
• 1:07:24
  Yes.
• 1:07:25
  And this is what gives us that ability to be in that collaboration or in
• 1:07:30
  that co-creation and co-creating what we want to see unfold next,
• 1:07:35
  what we want to give our energy towards, what we want to see unfolding.
• 1:07:39
  So I love that as an anchor.
• 1:07:41
  Thank you so much for just the anchor that you are in this world, Lindsay,
• 1:07:45
  and the anchor that this book is and this deck.
• 1:07:48
  I'm so excited to get my hands on this deck.
• 1:07:50
  So I'm curious for folks who want to go deeper, want to learn more,
• 1:07:54
  want to order or pre-order your book, where do people find you?
• 1:07:57
  So first and foremost, happy to share. First and foremost,
• 1:08:00
  just want to shout out and give ample due in respect to the illustrator of
• 1:08:05
  these cards. Yes, please. Chelsea Granger, the luminous,
• 1:08:09
  incredible Chelsea Granger who concepts are mine,
• 1:08:13
  but illustrations are Chelsea's and just want to fully acknowledge this deck.
• 1:08:18
  This book would never be what it is without her illustrations,
• 1:08:21
  and she's incredible.
• 1:08:22
  And I highly recommend everybody support her work outside of this because she's
• 1:08:26
  remarkable.
• 1:08:27
  Her book about grief and loss called So Many Ways to Draw a Ghost is
• 1:08:32
  my favorite book on grief. I love it. So that said,
• 1:08:37
  where people can find me is lindsaymack.com.
• 1:08:40
  All of the links to all of my work can be found there.
• 1:08:45
  I write a Substack newsletter called No Bad Cards,
• 1:08:49
  and you can find that again on lindsaymack.com or by going to Substack and
• 1:08:53
  searching for it.
• 1:08:56
  I have a lovely membership that I teach all of the fundamentals and
• 1:09:01
  foundations just simply called the Soul Tarot membership.
• 1:09:04
  I love doing that and teach. I have trainings and offerings.
• 1:09:08
  And I'm pretty sure you can order the deck and the book anywhere in the world,
• 1:09:12
  wherever you get your books.
• 1:09:15
  Awesome. Awesome, Lindsay. Thank you so much.
• 1:09:19
  Thank you so much for being here. This has really been such a delight.
• 1:09:23
  I'm so excited for you and for everyone who's going to be getting
• 1:09:28
  this book, highly recommend. I also love your Substack.
• 1:09:32
  It's just you're so generous with everything that you share and you've shared so
• 1:09:35
  generously with us today, Lindsay. So thank you so, so much for being here.
• 1:09:41
  Thank you.