Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about our choice of An Unearthly Child (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about our choice of An Unearthly Child (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. A hamster with a blump pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:42
  Psy Fraser, did you watch the TV last night?
• 0:46
  Did you see that programme? Doctor Who?
• 0:49
  Doctor Who? Yes.
• 0:51
  Well, right. It was all about this guilt at
• 0:54
  school, Just like we're at school now.
• 0:57
  And she went home to this junkyard, right?
• 1:00
  And it had a police box inside it in.
• 1:03
  The 60s police box in a jungle? No, wait, that ain't even the
• 1:07
  best bit. Oh.
• 1:09
  What They ran into the police box and inside it was a
• 1:13
  spaceship. No bigger on the inside than the
• 1:18
  outside. Are you trying to tell me
• 1:21
  there's some trans dimensionally transcendental spaceship just
• 1:25
  loitering in a junkyard in London and at the end it took
• 1:28
  off? Oh that.
• 1:29
  I wear it when. It it you mean it didn't roll
• 1:33
  along on wheels? But it certainly seems that
• 1:37
  Doctor. Who's in a lot of trouble and
• 1:38
  I'm going to tune in on Saturday to see what's going to happen.
• 1:43
  I mean, it sounds good, but I think it does need some tin
• 1:45
  robots in it. Welcome.
• 1:48
  Back to our hamster with a blood pen knife, the Doctor Who
• 1:51
  Comments Hairy podcast. I'm here with the two.
• 1:55
  Greatest Gentlemen that I know. Mr. Simon Hart and Mr. Greater
• 2:00
  Gregory to celebrate the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who by
• 2:05
  watching the very first Doctor Who adventure.
• 2:08
  This is the second episode of that.
• 2:12
  Oh, it all gets shit now, doesn't it?
• 2:14
  We should just stop watching. We've already determined it's
• 2:16
  it's gets fabulous now. In fact, you still have like the
• 2:20
  there's premise of the first episode that's sort of in the
• 2:22
  TARDIS. It does bleed into about half of
• 2:25
  this episode, doesn't it? Got a bit of a bit of a hangover
• 2:28
  here, haven't we? With them trying to work out who
• 2:31
  is Doctor Who before What's her face from Creature from the Pit
• 2:37
  turns up going, They will not make fire.
• 2:43
  Fire will come and destroy us all.
• 2:47
  Well first. Have you enjoying it so far?
• 2:49
  This this sounds fantastic. Can we watch it?
• 2:52
  Oh, OK. Look at Fraser getting to the
• 2:54
  point he wants to go to bed tonight, OK?
• 2:58
  Well, let's go in then in. 54 3. 322.
• 3:10
  One sorry, have you put on the right episode?
• 3:12
  The right. Episode Episode 2.
• 3:15
  Nobody knows this. But he's watching goals.
• 3:17
  Episode 4 during episode one, so didn't he do?
• 3:20
  Well, I did well. I knew we were out of sinker
• 3:24
  some points because you were saying.
• 3:26
  Things. You were saying things.
• 3:28
  I was like, I'm not there yet. I thought.
• 3:30
  I thought I was just a bit ahead, but no.
• 3:32
  Turns out Simon was 4 episodes ahead.
• 3:34
  How many of these has he done now, Fraser?
• 3:36
  How many hamsters? The person has happened to me.
• 3:42
  Do you realise the only delay in the hamster website being built?
• 3:46
  Is that Sy Heart's page is so long, new algorithms are having
• 3:51
  to be invented. And now here I am at the
• 3:54
  beginning and I'm not stopping. Oh my God, look, it's Doctor
• 3:58
  Who's first hottie. Is it Zara or is that cow?
• 4:02
  That's. Cow, isn't it?
• 4:04
  Oh, is it? Oh, this is so weird.
• 4:08
  IS is Inferno's Derek Newark? Oh, of course.
• 4:13
  It's Greg Sutton, isn't it? Yeah.
• 4:15
  Yeah, direct ancestor I think from their the way the two
• 4:19
  characters. They're both sort of very
• 4:22
  masculine, aren't they? Yeah, this really feels like a a
• 4:29
  sort of a community, doesn't it? Because you've got kids there,
• 4:31
  the old woman. Yeah, you don't get kids as
• 4:36
  extras, do you? No, no.
• 4:40
  Again, not until the 1st. Night.
• 4:41
  There we go. And Alethia Charlton.
• 4:44
  Thought that was going to be the moment where he's just list off
• 4:47
  all the stories with children as extras in it.
• 4:50
  There is a quite a few and then four and then five and then six.
• 4:54
  Stop. Please.
• 4:55
  You're making me dizzy, my cat. I could go on, come on quick
• 5:03
  side. Just think of one one with kids
• 5:05
  in it quickly. The Reign of Terror, of course,
• 5:09
  yeah. Oh my God, the kids in the mine
• 5:12
  robber. Yep, you're going away from us,
• 5:15
  is it? A game Extras.
• 5:16
  They're speaking rules, right? What's weird about this society
• 5:23
  is I feel as if they could sort a leap at any point.
• 5:26
  They're sort of grunting and groaning and making weird
• 5:29
  noises. I feel as if, yeah, they do feel
• 5:35
  dangerous. Yeah, Well, yeah.
• 5:38
  And that's that's it. It's.
• 5:40
  And there's nothing to say we're on Earth, you know?
• 5:45
  I mean, I knew that at this point, I think.
• 5:48
  Yeah, I think as soon as you see Colin, you go, you go caveman.
• 5:52
  Yeah, but they might be Cavemen on Mariners.
• 5:56
  Saying that, I think there's about 15 Blake 7 episodes with
• 5:59
  primitives like this. Yeah, I'm going to say, yeah, we
• 6:01
  we see. Yeah.
• 6:02
  Usually it's Pat Gorman wearing the fur.
• 6:05
  Yeah, well now you know, what Have you got the IDF on?
• 6:09
  Stole it from the best. Wait, was there, wouldn't he?
• 6:14
  But there is it. People are going to say thing.
• 6:17
  I'm crazy. But there is like power
• 6:19
  struggles and dynamics going on here, isn't there?
• 6:22
  Yeah. There is, because we've got the
• 6:25
  old leader who's been usurped by his son.
• 6:29
  We've got whoever makes fire is going to lead the tribe.
• 6:32
  We've got the old mother who who's seen everything and done
• 6:35
  everything and isn't Althea Charlton.
• 6:39
  I forget her name now. What's the character's name?
• 6:41
  Her. Her.
• 6:43
  Yeah. Oh yeah, she's being parted,
• 6:46
  isn't she, that she basically goes to whoever can make the
• 6:49
  fire, yeah. Yeah, It's a rich marriage,
• 6:51
  isn't it? Yeah.
• 6:53
  Savage. Oh, look at that fabulous
• 6:56
  ornament there, the bird. Yeah.
• 6:59
  Talk about Jackie Hill like that.
• 7:00
  Oh, she's a fabulous. Bird she is.
• 7:03
  Oh, she is. Oh, I honestly think Jackie Hill
• 7:06
  can do no wrong. And she's the one in this.
• 7:10
  The foot wrong that I really think sells the the danger of
• 7:13
  where they are. There's a particular scene we'll
• 7:17
  get there. In the third episode, yeah.
• 7:20
  Where she gets susaned. Look at this with the two of
• 7:22
  them at the console, and then the two of them are sitting
• 7:25
  down. So we're not quite there yet,
• 7:26
  are we? At the end of the story, they're
• 7:27
  all around the console together, yeah.
• 7:32
  But they're not a team yet, you see.
• 7:34
  It's it. They're Susan and the Doctor are
• 7:37
  the others, and Ian and Barbara are everyday people, and we
• 7:41
  don't know if we can trust them still yet.
• 7:44
  Well, of course. You can't trust them or just
• 7:45
  kidnap in Tokyo. Exactly.
• 7:47
  And not unconscious. Yeah.
• 7:50
  And the toss set has notice noticeably shrunk now this week.
• 7:55
  For the very first. Time.
• 7:57
  We've got a few more locations in this episode.
• 8:00
  I do love the fact that Barbara instantly believes as well.
• 8:04
  She just goes. I can't help it.
• 8:06
  I just believe them. And it's Ian.
• 8:10
  Ian really digs his heels in because he's a scientist and
• 8:13
  this just doesn't conform with his worldview of science, does
• 8:16
  it? It's a.
• 8:18
  It's it's a trick to repeat with Ben and Polly in The power of
• 8:21
  the Doctor. Power of the Daleks, isn't it?
• 8:24
  Where you know Polly's believes it's the Doctor and Ben needs
• 8:28
  convincing. We don't need to do it again
• 8:31
  after that. Do it because Spearhead, it's
• 8:32
  all new regulars. So yeah, they I often on Hamster
• 8:40
  criticize Susan in favour of Vicky because I do think Vicky's
• 8:45
  a more fun character to watch. But there is something very
• 8:49
  right about Hartland and Caroline Ford together.
• 8:53
  I'm particularly here that you you get the feeling that there
• 8:57
  is such a bond between them already and we're we're stepping
• 9:03
  into their world and it is their world.
• 9:06
  It's not just the Doctor's world.
• 9:09
  It's just very strange at how he is very hard on Susan and he's
• 9:13
  very gentle with Vicky. Yeah, well, it's almost like I'm
• 9:17
  going to get it right this time because I.
• 9:20
  Don't want us to go running off into the arms of a man?
• 9:22
  Oh wait, there's Troy less. Oh, that's such a brilliant
• 9:28
  line. Time is what is it?
• 9:30
  He says about time You can't get on and off.
• 9:32
  When you won. Yeah.
• 9:35
  I mean that is the basis for quantum leap.
• 9:41
  I just believe them, that's all. If you could touch the alien
• 9:43
  sand and hear the cries of strange birds and watch them in
• 9:46
  another sky, would that satisfy you?
• 9:50
  Yes, that, says Ian. Yeah, always to the point.
• 9:56
  And then like, this is not an easy acting challenge.
• 9:58
  He's got to walk out that door and sell the fact that he's
• 10:01
  coming to terms with. Fact He's travelled through
• 10:04
  time, yes. And he's brilliant.
• 10:06
  He sort of grabs his head, doesn't he?
• 10:07
  He's like, I cannot understand what is going on.
• 10:11
  And I get the fact that with subsequent like suddenly the
• 10:18
  TARDIS and the premise of the show is something we understand.
• 10:21
  It's like the new series, so suddenly we don't have to do
• 10:23
  this every time. But there is something special
• 10:27
  about when they do it this way. Yeah, and they're taking their
• 10:30
  time. It's not not like they're
• 10:32
  instantly outside they. Taking the time to keep
• 10:35
  questioning and reiterating the mysteries there.
• 10:39
  Look, you've got the landscape, the prehistoric landscape
• 10:41
  through the doors. And out you go.
• 10:45
  Gosh, is this on? Film.
• 10:48
  I like to Ian closing the doors behind him.
• 10:51
  It's really good. It looks like it's on film, but
• 10:53
  is it? Is it not?
• 10:55
  Is this Lime Grove? I think this is Lime Grove.
• 11:00
  Some some of these scenes are shot on film.
• 11:05
  The fight, definitely. Oh, no, no, this is film.
• 11:08
  No, this is You can't take your eyes off Hartnell, can you?
• 11:16
  Oh, he's mesmerizing. He's like, dear, dear.
• 11:19
  It's very disturbing. Why hasn't it changed?
• 11:24
  Well, it's it's that old thing, isn't it, about, you know, when
• 11:26
  he does the thing with these lapels, because he knows it's
• 11:29
  television and he knows what's going to be.
• 11:34
  Visible to the viewer. So he's doing everything with
• 11:37
  his face. He's doing everything.
• 11:41
  It's that sort of acting master class he gave to Purvis, isn't
• 11:44
  it? Television is very small, so you
• 11:46
  have to contain it all here, you know?
• 11:50
  Yeah, but, like, this wouldn't have worked if this core group
• 11:55
  of regulars wasn't willing to totally believe that this corner
• 12:00
  of whatever studio they're in is prehistoric Earth.
• 12:03
  Because we wouldn't believe it then if you had, if Tom Baker
• 12:06
  had come tripping out of the TARDIS being flippant and going
• 12:10
  what a very small desert Oasis we've got here, you know?
• 12:13
  You've got to sell it. Yeah.
• 12:16
  For the first time, yeah. Yeah.
• 12:20
  And that sense of culture shock is, is really powerful.
• 12:24
  And I don't think you really get that again for a long, long
• 12:28
  time, possibly not until. The smugglers for Ben and Polly
• 12:34
  again with the sort of soft reboot of Doctor Who at that
• 12:37
  point, where they're the first entirely new two people in the
• 12:43
  TARDIS. Yeah.
• 12:45
  Since since the first one, so you can do that again at that
• 12:48
  point. That line there gave Chris
• 12:51
  Chibil so much of a headache. You know when he brought in the
• 12:54
  roof, Doctor and the TARDIS was a police box.
• 12:56
  If they didn't have those lines in there saying it's only just
• 12:58
  changed if it had. Always been a police box.
• 13:01
  We would have been all right I. Don't think it's given triple
• 13:06
  the headache because it's given all the fans the headache.
• 13:10
  Not all the fans. Some people don't care the the
• 13:15
  smarter ones. What?
• 13:17
  There's fans out there that don't care.
• 13:21
  There's fans out there that don't complain.
• 13:23
  No, Never. Be telling us now there's fans
• 13:27
  up there. Don't make lists.
• 13:28
  Look at the anxiety and Susan that the Doctor's got missing.
• 13:31
  Oh yeah, look. It's smoking his pipe.
• 13:34
  He's made fire. And the most ornate pipe at that
• 13:41
  I really like as well, especially in the first couple
• 13:46
  of years. The the backdrop see is the back
• 13:49
  cloth. There's one there now of sort of
• 13:51
  a mountainous landscape and you can sort of get away with it in
• 13:53
  black and white in a way that you can't really in colour.
• 13:58
  And I think if there's one thing to take away from this story,
• 14:01
  it's if you are looking to stop smoking pipes do it is to go
• 14:06
  back in time in 100,000 years and get kidnapped because he
• 14:11
  never touches the back of the. Head He never does.
• 14:15
  It's a bit quite an extreme way of doing it, but.
• 14:18
  You can think of a better one, Joe.
• 14:20
  You tell, you tell the audience. Now I've.
• 14:22
  Actually worked with recovering addicts and it's very hard, so
• 14:27
  maybe that is the answer. Oh no.
• 14:33
  Oh, now she's oh. Yeah, there we go.
• 14:37
  It's the first sign of what we get all the way through keys of
• 14:40
  Mariners that's all throwing her arms about and screaming her
• 14:43
  head off. But so, like Barbara's
• 14:48
  comforting her, Ian's investigating, finding their
• 14:52
  roles. Exactly.
• 14:56
  Nothing settled. Like throughout this whole
• 14:58
  story. Nothing is settled.
• 15:00
  Yeah, look at it. They've got this weird scene of
• 15:03
  the kids attacking. Yeah, the other kids playing the
• 15:07
  whatever it is. Cheetah.
• 15:14
  What is it you like about two to four then, Fraser?
• 15:18
  Just think it's. It's a really clever subversion
• 15:22
  of what I was expecting at the time.
• 15:25
  Like I said, I was expecting aliens.
• 15:26
  I wasn't expecting it to be a historical first out out the
• 15:30
  traps, but I think it's just it's there's a cleverness about
• 15:35
  it which stems from the peril that they find themselves in.
• 15:42
  Is something so mundane to modern society, you know?
• 15:47
  It's the fact they can't make fire.
• 15:51
  Which is something that was, you know, even back in the 60s.
• 15:54
  You know, like you said, people were carrying matches around
• 15:56
  with them and all sorts. So, you know, it's this idea
• 15:59
  that, you know, going back in time and stripping away modern
• 16:04
  technology or comforts, whatever makes things really dangerous.
• 16:09
  It's just such a a simple way of putting them in peril by taking
• 16:15
  away something that we really take for granted.
• 16:17
  I think that's what works for me more than anything is just, you
• 16:20
  know, the the idea if one of them had a Zippo, you know the
• 16:24
  walk out of that cave in 5 minutes.
• 16:26
  But they haven't. So it's, you know, it's not
• 16:29
  about like you know, defeating space or motors or you know,
• 16:35
  find out how to power down the Daleks or anything like that.
• 16:38
  It's just purely about how do they get, how does, how do they
• 16:44
  start a fire? What about you then?
• 16:46
  Sorry. What I like is the way that it's
• 16:53
  about them coming together and that they try and educate the
• 16:59
  Cavemen when the lesson is that actually they need to be working
• 17:05
  together in the way that they're trying to explain to the Cavemen
• 17:08
  that if they work together against COW, they could defeat.
• 17:13
  COW is not bigger than the whole tribe.
• 17:16
  And actually, the Doctor isn't bigger than the whole tribe, or
• 17:19
  Ian isn't bigger than the whole tribe.
• 17:21
  It's all mirrored and it's beautifully done.
• 17:24
  And like we said in when we were discussing this in the previous
• 17:28
  episode, it's just there are no other episodes of Doctor Who as
• 17:33
  visceral and dirty and mucky, and everyone comes out of this.
• 17:42
  Having had an experience and you can see it in on their clothes,
• 17:47
  on their faces, they're tired, they're dirty, it's grimy and
• 17:53
  it's horrible. And Doctor Who never ever does
• 17:58
  this to the same extent ever again.
• 18:00
  People get splattered with muds and things like that, but never
• 18:03
  like this. That falls down into dead animal
• 18:09
  covered in blood, doesn't she? Yeah, it's.
• 18:11
  And that scream she gives at that moment is so.
• 18:15
  I've heard people mock that, but I think it's chilling.
• 18:18
  It's not. It's.
• 18:19
  Chilling because that's a proper visceral from from your guts.
• 18:23
  Scream that you are at the end of your tether and you cannot
• 18:27
  take any more of this. These are people who've been
• 18:30
  taken out of their time and their comfort into somewhere
• 18:35
  that is dangerous. And they don't know that they're
• 18:38
  going to get out alive. They don't know that they're
• 18:40
  ever going to get back to the ship at all.
• 18:43
  And that's what these early episodes are all about, is
• 18:46
  getting back. It's like like a game of Ludo
• 18:49
  that you've got to get back to the ship that has you've been
• 18:52
  cut off from because that's the only place in the universe where
• 18:55
  you're safe. It's that it's that sort of
• 18:58
  pattern they follow, isn't it? In series one, getting cut off
• 19:00
  from the Sardis and basically the the motive of the adventure
• 19:04
  is to get back to it. I really like 2-3 and four for
• 19:09
  the reason why most people complain.
• 19:10
  They go all those boring caveman scenes.
• 19:12
  I just don't think we ever see a society like this again which is
• 19:15
  sort of so instinctive and so base and it it, you know, it's
• 19:21
  worth remembering that's that's in US this used to be.
• 19:24
  Us and so this sort of. Violence and stuff like this.
• 19:29
  I don't think there's anything quite as alien as this.
• 19:31
  Again, no. And it's ours, yeah.
• 19:36
  And the fact that the Doctor is as murderous as them as well,
• 19:40
  and for his own survival he wants to kill someone so that
• 19:44
  they can get away. I just think if this was done at
• 19:47
  any other point in Doctor Who, it would be a bit more knowing
• 19:50
  and I think the Cavemen would be a bit more ridiculous or it
• 19:54
  would be a bit camp and instead they just fucking go for it and
• 19:58
  they play it for free. And it might seem a little bit,
• 20:02
  sort of, you know, armchair theatre at times, but they go
• 20:07
  for it. I love that.
• 20:09
  And they play it for real and what both Morris and and Verity
• 20:14
  sort of speak about this in the commentary and said if it wasn't
• 20:18
  the story they wanted to do, Boris had no idea how to do
• 20:21
  this. But said the one thing that we
• 20:23
  came to the conclusion was we if we're going to do this, we've
• 20:26
  got to play it absolutely for real, because otherwise.
• 20:30
  You're open to mockery straight away and you don't want to just
• 20:33
  go. And although there is quite a
• 20:36
  lot of brunting, it's not. There's a lot of dialogue
• 20:39
  actually as well, and a lot of quite pertinent dialogue sort of
• 20:43
  within it about how this society works.
• 20:46
  So you're giving the clue to the children at home.
• 20:49
  And like we said, if you look at the dynamics of this settlement
• 20:52
  of people, there's a lot of interesting things going on.
• 20:55
  It plays out a bit like a soap opera put in Cavemen times,
• 20:58
  yeah. Oh this is great.
• 21:00
  Where the doctor's like, oh, I'll make you fire, don't worry,
• 21:03
  I'll make it. And then he's like, oh fuck.
• 21:05
  My matches? Where are my matches?
• 21:08
  He doesn't say. Fuck is that.
• 21:09
  You know what? I.
• 21:10
  Mean panic on his face. Now look at that.
• 21:15
  And he knows how dangerous these people are.
• 21:18
  And. We saw.
• 21:21
  See it first time where we go in that cave of skull.
• 21:24
  We're just surrounded by the dead.
• 21:29
  About that dialogue side, because there's that sort of
• 21:33
  line be few minutes ago where you know the argument about, you
• 21:37
  know I'm going to make fire and you know when you try to keep
• 21:40
  warm, I'll go and kill the bears, I'll kill loads of bears
• 21:43
  and you know, he turns, he's like well.
• 21:45
  Can make fire and then the bears who can sleep warm in their own
• 21:48
  skins and that's quite that's quite a nifty line.
• 21:52
  Yeah. But putting it in the caveman,
• 21:55
  it, you know, it shows that it isn't just, you know, the
• 21:59
  dialogues couch a metaphor as well in a way that we don't
• 22:01
  usually get. He just said there was a tree, a
• 22:03
  stranger came out of it. He made fire with his fingers.
• 22:06
  I think the only other time we get dialogue like that is Web
• 22:08
  Planet. No, because he's describing it
• 22:11
  in terms that he. He's rationalizing it in terms
• 22:15
  that he can understand. So he knows about trees.
• 22:17
  Trees grow like that. But he's never seen a blue box
• 22:22
  with a flashing light on top. Oh, I love this, where her's
• 22:27
  like you cannot make fire. And she's really sort of egging
• 22:31
  him, isn't she? And the Mockingham Mockingham
• 22:34
  known, yeah, which makes him desperate and more dangerous.
• 22:39
  But everyone's getting involved in this, it's.
• 22:42
  You know, Zars jumping around. You know the the all you know
• 22:46
  really trying to sell. There is an intensity to heart
• 22:50
  or look at him. He looks terrified, doesn't he?
• 22:54
  I just don't think you really get the oh maybe Pearl way.
• 22:58
  Pearl Way has an intensity about him sometimes.
• 23:03
  But you don't see Pearl, we looking scared like that very
• 23:06
  often. No, as we discussed in Oh no, we
• 23:09
  haven't discussed the Planet of the Spiders yet.
• 23:16
  Nobody knows about it. I haven't brought it out yet.
• 23:21
  Me and I haven't discussed all the stories where John Pitt, we
• 23:23
  get scared. No, he gets quite scared in mind
• 23:27
  of evil as well he does. Yeah, he does.
• 23:31
  Not as scared as Roger Delgado gets when he sees that enormous
• 23:33
  John Pertway looming over. The nose on Barbara's screaming
• 23:40
  a red off. Therefore, now it just feels
• 23:44
  unpredictable, doesn't it? Like but like so much Doctor Who
• 23:49
  is kind of predictable, you know that?
• 23:51
  You kind of know the pattern. At this point, we just have no
• 23:54
  clue. No, we don't even know how long
• 23:59
  this story is going to last. No, Take them to The Cave of
• 24:06
  Skulls and this is a brilliant bit of design, The Cave of
• 24:13
  Skulls. Yeah, it's really well done.
• 24:17
  Is it a cave with skulls? It is.
• 24:20
  There we. Go.
• 24:22
  That's all you need. I mean, I was taken into The
• 24:24
  Cave of skulls. I would fear that I would never
• 24:26
  come out again. Oh, I didn't mean that in a rude
• 24:31
  way. For once, I've.
• 24:35
  Got the woman is mine. Yes, politics have come on a bit
• 24:39
  since then, haven't they? Sexual politics?
• 24:41
  Oh, I don't know. Or have they?
• 24:43
  Petra. Oh, Greg, I'm frightened.
• 24:50
  So is Orb the Sun? Yes, OK.
• 24:54
  They're basically some worshippers.
• 24:56
  Yeah. Oh, they think the sun's going
• 24:57
  to give them fire. Bless.
• 25:01
  Them. Of course they would.
• 25:01
  What's the word? This is where the heat comes.
• 25:03
  From Yeah, And I like it's just world building, isn't it?
• 25:08
  It's not like no one has to stop and explain what Orb is, or any
• 25:13
  of that. You work out yourself.
• 25:15
  Yeah, I love that if you give me to him.
• 25:18
  He'll give you me, all right. I mean, you you.
• 25:23
  I watched some period dramas recently.
• 25:25
  You know where a lot of that was going on?
• 25:26
  Women were being bartered, basically for wealth and things.
• 25:31
  Oh, she's chilling, isn't she? Only way you should have killed
• 25:37
  the four strangers. What's her third appearance?
• 25:44
  Oh, Dalek Invasion. Invasion Earth.
• 25:46
  Yeah, really creepy and sinister Again, and encouraged from the
• 25:52
  pH. She's sinister.
• 25:54
  And I'm in Russell T Davis's Century Fools.
• 25:58
  She is. Oh, I've never seen that.
• 26:00
  Oh, always ever so good. Where the hell did they get all
• 26:03
  these skulls from? BBC props department OK God, if
• 26:10
  I was Barbara I'd be like, this is the worst day of my life.
• 26:16
  And it's only going to get worse.
• 26:19
  You wait till tomorrow, Barbara. You'll be in fuchsia pink and
• 26:27
  it's like Fraser, it is so it's such a simple thing all.
• 26:30
  They've got to do is get away and get back to the TARDIS, but
• 26:34
  they just throw in one obstacle after another, don't they?
• 26:39
  I do love the fact the Doctor just don't give a toss because
• 26:41
  he don't want to help him out. It's like, let's just go.
• 26:46
  So that's sort of the conception of the Doctor hasn't really
• 26:49
  formed yet, has it? Not the one we.
• 26:51
  Recognize. No, I mean the Doctors in the
• 26:55
  first episodes very much out for himself.
• 26:58
  But there was kind of that point there where one of them's just
• 27:03
  about to bring Ian with the axe and he's like, no, you kill him,
• 27:07
  you don't get any fire, you know?
• 27:10
  So that's, you know, like a key point in in turning the Doctor
• 27:15
  into. Sort of the the hero or the lead
• 27:19
  of the show, because for intensive purposes it should be
• 27:21
  Ian. At this point what the show
• 27:25
  should be called. School Teacher Ian.
• 27:27
  Well, it's it is. It's Doctor Who.
• 27:29
  But Ian's the the essentially the main character.
• 27:33
  Ian's the one who's doing all the action and Ian's the one
• 27:36
  who's, you know, kind of driving things forward a bit and.
• 27:43
  At this point Dr. Who was very much like the the Gadgi from
• 27:49
  Lost in Space the sort of evil scientist from there, you know
• 27:55
  who was like the the Rangan but he's still like on the side, as
• 28:01
  it were. So you know it could be like
• 28:04
  danger dangerous who's informant and you know that's that's how
• 28:09
  this could. Be going at this point you could
• 28:12
  be like, well you know this guy is going to be an antagonist
• 28:15
  just as much as you know he's he's going to be the hero and he
• 28:19
  is going to be. It's the straightforward hero,
• 28:22
  yeah. The either the the strapping
• 28:24
  young man who can, you know, do all the judo and and everything
• 28:30
  is going to be the hero of the piece.
• 28:31
  Really. Are you saying the villain of
• 28:33
  the piece at this point is Doctor Who?
• 28:36
  It could be, yeah. You know, there's this.
• 28:40
  We've seen very little, as you know, two episodes in now.
• 28:44
  We've seen very little to suggest that Doctor Who was
• 28:47
  actually a nice man. Well, the the inference with
• 28:51
  that cliffhanger was that they're going to have their
• 28:53
  brains smashed in, isn't it? Yeah, just like.
• 28:55
  Well, the one person that goes to do that is Doctor Who in
• 28:59
  this. Well, exactly.
• 29:01
  So yeah, you know. And we'll get there.
• 29:04
  Well, how can I ask you both a question?
• 29:06
  Because like, I feel as if we Oh no, I don't do it wrong.
• 29:10
  We are so inured in this show and our passion for this show is
• 29:13
  so deep that sometimes we cannot see the wood for the trees.
• 29:16
  Yeah, but Doctor Who is a such an absurd title for a taping
• 29:22
  show like. Yes, Doctor Who?
• 29:26
  Like, what the hell? Don't start.
• 29:30
  You know You'll wind yourself up if you start, though.
• 29:32
  Literally. You know, they brought out a
• 29:34
  show now and it was called Professor.
• 29:36
  What? You know, like you'd be like
• 29:39
  what the? Fuck, you know.
• 29:41
  But because it's also so good. It's so in our DNA that we hear
• 29:45
  the words Doctor Who and we get an instant stiffy, but like.
• 29:51
  Small doctor, Big Who. That's how you see it.
• 29:57
  I'll tell you what. Cut it there.