Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Katie Woolf spoke with Deputy Opposition Leader Gerard Maley regarding the Youth Crime Legislation

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Katie Woolf spoke with Deputy Opposition Leader Gerard Maley regarding the Youth Crime Legislation · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Hello, Katie Wolf and three point sixty online at Mix
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  Speaker 1: one oh four nine dot com.
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  Speaker 2: If you'd like to get in contact with us this morning,
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  Speaker 2: you can give us a call eight nine four one
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  Speaker 2: one O four nine. You can also send us a
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  Speaker 2: text message if you'd like to zero four one eight
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  Speaker 2: nine five seven three sixty nine. And that's what Mark
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  Speaker 2: in two wee has done, and he says, Hi, Katie,
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  Speaker 2: I'm fairly certain that when bail is granted to young offenders,
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  Speaker 2: their bail conditions don't say you can commit further offenses
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  Speaker 2: if they're trivial or if there are exceptional circumstances. Mark says,
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  Speaker 2: the conditions would have to say not to commit any offense.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you, Mark.
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  Speaker 2: I think that you know, from what I can read
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  Speaker 2: through this legislation, I'm sure that there is still different
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  Speaker 2: things being worked on, and that is exactly why it's
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  Speaker 2: going through Parliament this week, so there is the opportunity
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  Speaker 2: to debate it. But from what I can see, you know,
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  Speaker 2: just taking a look at that one section that says
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  Speaker 2: a breach of a condition of bail mensha in sub
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  Speaker 2: section one B is not a serious breach of bail
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  Speaker 2: if the breach is trivial or technical, or there are
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  Speaker 2: exceptional circumstances for it. Now joining us on the line
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  Speaker 2: to talk more about these changes is the Deputy Opposition
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  Speaker 2: Leader Jared Maylee.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Jared, Oh, Good.
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  Speaker 3: Morning Katie, Good morning listeners.
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  Speaker 2: Now, Jared, as I mentioned, we know that the government's
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  Speaker 2: proposed legislative changes are going to be debated in Parliament
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  Speaker 2: this week in an effort really to try to curb
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  Speaker 2: the serious issues that we've been experiencing around the Northern
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  Speaker 2: Territory when it comes to youth crime. Now, we know
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  Speaker 2: that there's been a serious emphasis from the Gunner government
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  Speaker 2: they say in recent weeks when talking about this legislation
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  Speaker 2: and that it's going to crack down on repeat offenders.
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  Speaker 2: Last week in a statement, the Police Minister said if
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  Speaker 2: a young person commits a serious breach of bail, their
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  Speaker 2: bail will be revoked and they'll be taken into Remand Jared,
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure that you've been of trawling over this legislation,
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  Speaker 2: and probably with a much keener eye than I, given
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  Speaker 2: the fact that you are legally trained. What's been your
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  Speaker 2: reaction upon going through us?
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  Speaker 3: Well, Cadie, al really there's two aspects to it. It's
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  Speaker 3: the one section which is thirty eight double A double A,
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  Speaker 3: which talks about the series breach of the youth of
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  Speaker 3: a bail condition. So, for example, if a youth is
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  Speaker 3: arrested on a Monday morning and there is taken to
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  Speaker 3: court for a breach of bail, well that section applies
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  Speaker 3: and that's when the bail must be revoked and reminded
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  Speaker 3: in custody. But what would happen in my experiences working
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  Speaker 3: in a core system. The lawyer for that youth would
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  Speaker 3: simply relist the matter later that day, say at two
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  Speaker 3: o'clock in the afternoon, for a bail application, so the
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  Speaker 3: youth would be reminded in custody for the day, and
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  Speaker 3: then at two o'clock a biol application we made, and
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  Speaker 3: that's what it switches to section seven B, which is
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  Speaker 3: the other amendment to the legislation. We've talked about what
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  Speaker 3: a youth does in relation to a described offense or
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  Speaker 3: the breach of a bail condition. But that section, for
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  Speaker 3: my reading, doesn't change a presumption, even though there's a
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  Speaker 3: heading which says a presumption against bail. But if you
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  Speaker 3: actually read the words of the legislation and where it
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  Speaker 3: fits into the act. It doesn't change a presumption for
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  Speaker 3: bail because seven A, which goes before that, it's got
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  Speaker 3: a section which talks about and I'll read it out,
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  Speaker 3: which is section seven A two. Bail must not be
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  Speaker 3: granted to a person accused often offense to which this
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  Speaker 3: section applies, unless the person statis size an authorized member
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  Speaker 3: or court that bail should be granted. But that applies
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  Speaker 3: for section seven eight, not seven B, because seven B
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  Speaker 3: is going to become after seven eight, and those words
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  Speaker 3: aren't used in that legislation whatsoever. So even though they've
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  Speaker 3: got a heading consumption against bail, it's in the wrong
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  Speaker 3: part of this section and it doesn't actually say the words.
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  Speaker 3: So there is no change of presumption and the youth
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  Speaker 3: will just simply get bail, but there will be some conditions,
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  Speaker 3: but it's going to be a really an opportunity for
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  Speaker 3: the youth to get out and bail again.
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  Speaker 2: Jared, I know that there is going to be listeners
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  Speaker 2: right now thinking to themselves, I cannot make heads and
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  Speaker 2: all tails of this, and I know that that's what
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  Speaker 2: I'm thinking as I'm listening.
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  Speaker 3: I guess you know, it shows that this legislation is rushed, confusing,
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  Speaker 3: and it's going to be very very difficult to operate
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  Speaker 3: in the real and real world and the core system.
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  Speaker 3: The government has got a lot to answer for here.
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  Speaker 3: They've talked tough, but essentially there are legislation falls flat.
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  Speaker 1: So what is going I mean, what do we do here?
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  Speaker 2: Because like at the end of the day, everybody wants
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  Speaker 2: to see change in this space. But if we get
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  Speaker 2: this wrong, it doesn't sound like it's going to make
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  Speaker 2: any difference whatsoever to the current situation that we've got
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  Speaker 2: around repeat offending of youths.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree completely, ok, any other thing, that this
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  Speaker 3: legislation only applies to youth, So if you're eighteen or
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  Speaker 3: above and you committed an offense, it doesn't apply. So
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  Speaker 3: there's no change of presumption. So if you're out there
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  Speaker 3: and you're repeat offende in you're eighteen or nineteen or
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  Speaker 3: twenty or thirty or fifty, the legislation doesn't affect you.
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  Speaker 3: So if you're a repeat offender and you're out there
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  Speaker 3: and you're an adult, you still get bail. So it's
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  Speaker 3: really only trying to curb the youth crime. And I
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  Speaker 3: accept that there's a youth crime, such a problem but
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  Speaker 3: there's also a lot of adult out there committing repeat
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  Speaker 3: offenses and breaching bail. It doesn't apply for.
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  Speaker 2: Them, all right, I want to ask because I know
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  Speaker 2: that in Section seven B of this legislation, I want
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  Speaker 2: to try and make this as easy for our listeners
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  Speaker 2: to understand as possible, because I know, even for me,
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  Speaker 2: I'm finding it all quite confusing. But there is there
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  Speaker 2: is part two of Section seven B that says a
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  Speaker 2: breach of a condition of bail mentioned in sub section
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  Speaker 2: one B is not a serious breach of bail if
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  Speaker 2: the breach is trivial or technical, or there are exceptional
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  Speaker 2: circumstances to it.
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  Speaker 1: Jared from your legal.
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  Speaker 2: Experience, what would be considered a trivial breach of b Firstly.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, well, for example, and this is really up to
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  Speaker 3: the judge to decide, but a trivial might be if
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  Speaker 3: there's a curfew and the curfew come in and you've
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  Speaker 3: got to be home at seven o'clock and your home
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  Speaker 3: at maybe five past seven, A small, small breach, yep,
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  Speaker 3: A trivial breach, I tell you, A more serious breach
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  Speaker 3: if you didn't come home at all. That wouldn't be
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  Speaker 3: a trivial breach off that bail condition.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so that sounds as though it's fairly easy to understand. Now,
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  Speaker 2: there is also as part of that same section it
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  Speaker 2: will continue to read. It says a breach of a
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  Speaker 2: condition of bail mentioned in subsection one B is not
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  Speaker 2: a serious breach of bail if the breach is considered
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  Speaker 2: trivial or technical, or there are exceptional circumstances to it. Now,
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  Speaker 2: when you consider exceptional circumstances, I would think that most
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  Speaker 2: lawyers would be able to argue fairly exceptional circumstances to
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  Speaker 2: most of the young people that we are speaking about,
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  Speaker 2: you know, when you're talking about some of the issues
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  Speaker 2: that we are dealing with around youth crime.
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  Speaker 3: I agree. And also when you talk about exceptional circumstances,
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  Speaker 3: lawyers will talk about exceptional circumstances off the offender and
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  Speaker 3: exceptional circumstances off the offense. And this legislation is not
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  Speaker 3: clear which one it applies to. Because you have exceptional
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  Speaker 3: circumstances off the offender. Let's say the defender has a
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  Speaker 3: mental disability or some sort of injury, Well, that might
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  Speaker 3: be an exceptional circumstance for them. Or if the lawyers
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  Speaker 3: can argue that the child has a tough upbringing that
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  Speaker 3: might be an exceptional circumstance. So it's not really clear.
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  Speaker 3: And from my experience in the course system, exceptional circumstances
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  Speaker 3: will be given a broad definition and there will be
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  Speaker 3: lots and lots of things that get included into that,
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  Speaker 3: and then once one or two cases get through in
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  Speaker 3: relation to a mental disability or some sort of physical handicap,
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  Speaker 3: perhaps that will be the open the floodgate.
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  Speaker 2: Now there's quite a few messages coming through this morning, Jared.
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  Speaker 2: There's one here that says, good morning Katie, exceptional circumstances
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  Speaker 2: to break bail?
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  Speaker 1: Are they kidding?
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  Speaker 2: Question Mark breach of bail is just that once again
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  Speaker 2: the guvern have pulled the wall over our eyes and
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  Speaker 2: lied to us. That one there from Joe. I've got
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  Speaker 2: one here from Barry. It says typical of the government.
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  Speaker 2: They're still just jogging on the spot when it comes
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  Speaker 2: to changing.
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  Speaker 1: These bail laws. Jared, I do want to ask.
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  Speaker 2: You, as the Deputy Opposition leader. I know that the
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  Speaker 2: ABC News this morning was reporting that lawyers say that
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  Speaker 2: parts of the legislation contradict what the Police Minister A
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  Speaker 2: Cole Madison told Parliament when introducing the legislation. Minister and
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  Speaker 2: Cole Madison said the changes meet. There is a presumption
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  Speaker 2: against bail for most offenses, despite the bill itself saying
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  Speaker 2: the presumption for bail will be removed.
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  Speaker 1: So from your understanding, which is it, Well.
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  Speaker 3: My understanding is it is the presumption of neutral, so
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  Speaker 3: it hasn't changed you presumption whatsoever. Like I read out earlier,
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  Speaker 3: to read the whole Bail Act in this entirety, you
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  Speaker 3: need to read section seven A Subsection two, which talks
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  Speaker 3: about bail might not be granted unless the person statisize
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  Speaker 3: the court that ball should be granted. That's the words
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  Speaker 3: that change the onners and that's in section seven A
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  Speaker 3: which applies to adults. But in this section it doesn't
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  Speaker 3: have those words at all. So Joe, again, this is
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  Speaker 3: a case example of rushing the legislation not thinking it through,
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  Speaker 3: and they've missed the point. And I just think that
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  Speaker 3: the Minister was wrong. It doesn't change the presumption at all.
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  Speaker 2: Sir Jared, from your perspective, and I understand that this
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  Speaker 2: is obviously a political discussion. It's always going to be
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  Speaker 2: when I'm speaking to the opposition, and I do want
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  Speaker 2: to obviously speak to the government about this. But from
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  Speaker 2: your perspective, if you breach your bail conditions with these changes,
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  Speaker 2: what's going to happen?
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  Speaker 3: Well, if you breach your bail condition and you're taking
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  Speaker 3: the court on the first occasion for breaching the bail,
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  Speaker 3: your bail be revoked and you romanded in custody. And
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  Speaker 3: the question is which we can't find the definition of custody.
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  Speaker 3: And if you read this is a new new wording,
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  Speaker 3: I warrant commit the youth into custody of the CEO
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  Speaker 3: Youth Justice. So what does that mean? Does that mean
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  Speaker 3: just taking back to the care if it's the person's
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  Speaker 3: already in the care of the CEO, or if your
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  Speaker 3: child is at home and commits a defenses, your child
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  Speaker 3: are going to be taken in and become the care
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  Speaker 3: of the state and become a carer. It doesn't actually
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  Speaker 3: say what that means. And I've looked through the legislation
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  Speaker 3: and I can't find the definition of custody of the CEO.
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  Speaker 3: Does that actually mean taken to don Dale or does
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  Speaker 3: that mean just taken back to the parent or the
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  Speaker 3: care who's caring for that child. So we don't know
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  Speaker 3: and then that's the first occasion. And then if your
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  Speaker 3: lawyer relists the matter, well, that section doesn't apply anymore.
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  Speaker 3: There's seven b applies, and then there's no presumption, and
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  Speaker 3: the presumption is neutral and more than likely the youth
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  Speaker 3: is going to get bailed. So if this happens on
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  Speaker 3: a weekday, the youth will be out on it that afternoon.
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  Speaker 2: There is no doubt that there's a lot of Territorians
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  Speaker 2: that want to see some serious change in this space
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  Speaker 2: and a serious reduction in crime being committed. They'll all
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  Speaker 2: be hoping that these changes have an impact. And then
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  Speaker 2: on the other hand, we have got indigenous advocacy groups
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  Speaker 2: and health groups that feel these changes being proposed are
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  Speaker 2: a step in the wrong direction. The Children's Commissioner last
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  Speaker 2: week issued a statement which said that the changes will
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  Speaker 2: result in more children and young people in detention in
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  Speaker 2: a jurisdiction that already locks up more children than any
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  Speaker 2: others in Australia. Have you spoken to any of the
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  Speaker 2: groups that are concerned about these changes and what have
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  Speaker 2: they said to you.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I haven't spoken to any of those groups, but
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  Speaker 3: I've spoken to people in the community and what they
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  Speaker 3: want is they want something that's going to work to
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  Speaker 3: reduce crime across the teritory because people aren't feeling faith
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  Speaker 3: in their own home and this legislation is a small
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  Speaker 3: step forward, there's no question about that. But has it
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  Speaker 3: been done properly? The answer is no. Does it change
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  Speaker 3: of presumption? And the answer is no. And effectively it's
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  Speaker 3: a long winded and it's confusing.
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  Speaker 1: I tell you what.
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  Speaker 2: It sounds as though it's going to be a very
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  Speaker 2: interesting time in Parliament this week, Jared, before we are,
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  Speaker 2: before we wrap up, can I put a question to
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  Speaker 2: you that I was actually going to ask the Chief
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  Speaker 2: Minister this morning because it's come through from one of
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: our listeners, Gary. Over the weekend he sent an email
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: asking would the government be prepared to appoint an independent
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  Speaker 2: firm to order it why so many police officers in
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  Speaker 2: the Northern Territory are leaving. It costs thousands of dollars
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  Speaker 2: to train up these guys and the Northern Territory taxpayer
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  Speaker 2: needs to know why they're leaving in droves. What do
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  Speaker 2: you think of that idea?
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  Speaker 3: Oh? Look, I am very consumed with these police leaving
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  Speaker 3: in droves because what happens is the new recruits come
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  Speaker 3: in and they're inexperience and they've got no leadership. And effectively,
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  Speaker 3: if you look at all the new recruits going into
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  Speaker 3: the regional stations, they're there, but the senior people are leaving.
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  Speaker 3: So something needs to look at why they're leaving. I
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  Speaker 3: accept that completely and anything to keep our police working hard,
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  Speaker 3: because they do work hard and they're good people, but
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  Speaker 3: they're just no leadership.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Jered Mayley, as I say it's going to be
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  Speaker 2: an interesting week in part elament, what word are you
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  Speaker 2: planning on using it rather than now that incompetent isn't allowed?
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  Speaker 3: Well maybe not competent or useless hopeless.
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  Speaker 2: You mob were all out of control last week. I
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  Speaker 2: reckon the Speaker needs to needs to try and calm
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  Speaker 2: things down. She's struggling to manage everyone.
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  Speaker 3: Well, Labor just keep making mistakes and that's what the
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  Speaker 3: Opposition's job is to hold them to account and that's
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  Speaker 3: what we're trying to do.
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  Speaker 2: Jered Mayley, the Deputy Opposition leader, thank you so much
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: for your time this morning.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you bye.
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  Speaker 2: Bye now, and I will point out it wasn't I'm
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  Speaker 2: not saying that it was only the opposition who were
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: who were rowdy in Parliament last week it was the
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  Speaker 2: government as well, goodness me, you know, both right across
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  Speaker 2: the board, everybody during question time.
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  Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty crazy.