Latest / WA Police Confidential (Formerly Operation Podcast) / Ep 20 - Drag Racing in Burswood

Transcript

Ep 20 - Drag Racing in Burswood · WA Police Confidential (Formerly Operation Podcast)

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast discusses real life crimes and law enforcement matters.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: It may include detailed descriptions of criminal activity, traumatic incidents, and other content that could be confronting or distressing, particularly for victim survivors.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you find any of these topics upsetting, please consider whether this content is right for you and seek support if needed.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm Julian Bicentini.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_05: Today we'll be talking about a new reward for a double homicide down in Albany.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_06: And we'll talk about how two people found themselves on the wrong side of the law after they allegedly clocked excessive speeds racing down in Burrswood.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_05: And WA Police has launched overt live facial recognition technology.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_05: We've got two officers and a sneak peek from Joey of what actually happens when we send out this van.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_05: And Julian, you'll be talling talking to us a little bit about the recognition of excellence awards and what happened on the night.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_05: This is WA Police Confidential.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_08: I'm standing in the heart of the Perth CBD in the Murray Street Mall.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_08: It's a weekday.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_08: Shoppers, business people, workers in retail, and they're all curious about one particular thing that's uh it's a little bit different.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_08: There's a few signs up, very big signs, very noticeable signs, saying live facial recognition in use.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_08: Now this is, I believe, an Australian First, and joining me today to uh talk us through this, uh, Superintendent Steve Thompson.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_08: Steve, what exactly is this?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Shoey.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Look, um look, it definitely is.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's an Australian first.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's modelled on uh a strategy been used in the United Kingdom for a number of years and it's been very successful here.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you have with a van with cameras, high-quality cameras, attached to it and connected to it, parked in a public area?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: The cameras scan faces as people go by.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what they're looking for is people that are those people that police are looking for on a daily basis.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Arrest warrants, wonderful question for serious offences, and maybe missing people or vulnerable people that we want to return to their families.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the technology insight scans the faces?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: It then alerts the police officers if there's a match to this specific list that we have.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if there is, then the officers get a notification and they then go and try and verify the identity of that person.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, so in terms of the list, is this something that is uh again I guess a bit bespoke, like you tailor it to um uh a certain certain groups of people?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Look, uh the alert list is very specifically controlled, and we build it and create it every time for each deployment, so it's bang up to date.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it's those people that police officers every day are out looking for to do their job.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_08: People who perhaps maybe there's an arrest warrant out for because they've allegedly committed a crime or haven't reported to the court as per their bail conditions or or reported to a police station.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's correct, and uh and people want for question for serious offences, so we have enough evidence already to arrest, and then we're trying to locate part of that ILA process.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: This certainly fits into that L part.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_08: It's identify, locate, and associate.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_08: Correct.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: But also anyone who's subject to a lawfully imposed restriction, like a court restriction.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the likes of our registered sex offenders there that have strict restrictions of where they can go, who they can be with, those types of people will be on our list as well.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we can proactively ensure that they're complying with those restrictions.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_08: So, hypothetically speaking, just you could you could park this big white van with live facial recognition in use on the side, outside, say, uh a concert that's going to be for a children's entertainer.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_08: And then if there were child sex offenders in the area, they'd be on your list, you've uploaded, and potentially, if they're breaching a court order, um, and they're coming within, you know, I guess an area where they're not supposed to be, and close to children, that's it.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_08: You've got them.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly correct.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it gives us that proactive compliance piece that we probably haven't had before.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: We'd relied on police officers' knowledge and awareness and then been able to identify them.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have some technology that can help us do that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what it does, it only helps, it just taps that officer on the shoulder saying, I think that could be this person.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_08: And going back to what you said before, so say for instance, you know, uh I'm I'm uh we're at the Royal Show and and suddenly you know an elderly relative uh who maybe suffers or lives with um you know something like dementia uh goes missing.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_08: Can I go up to the police officers and actually say, hey, can you help?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_08: Is this going to help locate that person?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh look, most most definitely.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, it's it this scanner spans both ends of that police and context from the sort of the criminal side but also the vulnerable side.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if even if they don't have their image in our police database, so we use generally speaking um arrest images, lock-up images for this.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: But even if the person doesn't have an image, if a family member comes and they're concerned of a missing child or another vulnerable person and they give us consent, well uh we could put that image into the uh the apparatus now, and that would immediately start trying to locate that person.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, alright, alright.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_08: What what about the people who are not on the list, who are walking past?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_08: Do they have to worry about their face being somehow stored or or police surveillance, big sort of big brother kind of type stuff?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is really, really important for us, and it's I think it's really important that everybody um knows this.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: We do not store any data on those people.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: We the people walking by who uh that aren't on our alert list, um, we don't store the data.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: We instantly grab their their face, which gets uh and measured and compared to the alert list, but as soon as that um comes back that it's not a match, then that is instantaneously and automatically deleted.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um this is less intrusive than CCTV.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: CCTV in public places quite often records for 28 days or or longer.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: We don't record anything here.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing we keep is if the person is a is a nominated match and we take action, then we keep that record.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: But every other member of the public can walk by instantaneously, uh everything is deleted, nothing is stored.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_08: And look, I did have an opportunity to look in the van earlier, um, and you've got operators in there who are you know they're watching, but a lot of people's faces, in fact, almost everyone I saw, I think everyone I saw actually was pixelated.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_08: What why is that?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is an extra capability that we put on top of things just to provide that additional reassurance to the community.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So even on the operator's screen that sits in the van and it which just shows CCTV image, the as soon as the technology says no, that's not a match, it pixelates that person's face.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_08: Which would be pretty instantaneous, I think.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's within a split second.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Part of the idea behind that is so that the operator then can't influence or be suggested influence any police action that's taken.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because even the operator in the van can't see who those people are or identify those people.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not what this is about.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're not we're not people watching, we're trying to find those key people within the ground.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_08: So criminals on the run, registered sex offenders are the only faces really that you're gonna see unless it's a vulnerable person.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's correct.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And look, and even that, we go to the length of we carefully control that data as well.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because even those uh that we're looking for, we have a right to protect their privacy and their data, so we closely control that, that's why it's locked away in the bank.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I my understanding is that um there are many agencies in Australia that have been using facial recognition for more than a decade.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_08: How is this different?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I suppose it's different because it's police, and everyone uh you know are uh always interested in what the police do and how they do things.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um so but you're right, you know, the likes of Bunnings have used this and continue to use it.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think Crown Casino uh maybe use it, and other people do.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: But this is a first for us because we're we're more specific, we're more direct, and we're more targeted, we're looking for specific people only, and we're also taking it into more of a public place than in a private place.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's why it's really important we control the data, we control the privacy, and that's a big reason why we're being so overt about this.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: The van is heavily marked with police, um, it's got live facial recognition, we have signs deployed in the have to walk past the sign.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_08: Correct.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_08: So presumably people can look at it and turn around and walk the other way if they want.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: They could, so it so it's which is a good thing if it's a deterrent factor.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but part of this as well is just having this conversation with our community now saying this is modern policing.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're now tech enabled.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: We want to use as much technology to keep you safe, to reduce harm, and this is this is a tool that we can do.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a trial, we're heavily marketing, we're putting a lot of information out there.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's a website people can go to get information and frequently asked questions.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because we want to have that conversation with our community and say, look, this is something that we can do.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's been successful in the UK, over 2,000 arrests in London alone.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_08: 2,000 arrests in London alone.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_08: So and there was one in particular, wasn't there, that really stood out?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: There is.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Look, there's a number of different uh, I suppose, high-profile cases.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: But there was there was a case of uh a 73-year-old man who had a long history, I think it was about an 18 or 19 year history of child sexual abuse.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Did nine years in prison, was released with an order, a bit like our registered sex offensive.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_08: As in don't go need kids, basically.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he was not to be an association of a child.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now he was walking in a public place, came through the uh life facial recognition deployment hand in hand with a six-year-old child.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Also in his person, they found a knife concealed in his belt.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I've watched the footage, and you can watch this on YouTube, and one of the first things that he says when he stopped by the place is, I should not be with that child.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that alone, if you our minds can always go where what could have happened.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that certainly uh prevented that child uh undergoing severe, significant harm.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_08: So, yeah, I mean it it look, it's hard to hard to argue with that, from my opinion, but it is about the community having you know a I guess um an awareness of what we're doing and and that discussion, I guess, with the community.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_08: Um look, the only other thing I was going to ask you, so I know the trial runs for about I think five or six months.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_08: Um you've been out in Midland, out in the eastern suburbs, and you're here in Perth today.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_08: I know that what we're hoping to do is I think at a certain juncture, a week or two weeks in, is maybe let our traditional media partners and the public know how it's going so far and do it in such a way that they can interrogate the data, they can ask questions of a police officer rather than us just putting it out there.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_08: But have we had any, without going into too much detail, have we made any arrests that we had any success so far?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: We we deployed to Midland yesterday.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um the first arrest I think was in about 30 minutes of our deployment.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there was uh arrest yesterday, and already I think the team have been here in uh in Perth about an hour and we've already had this morning.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, and look before again, we we we want to make sure that the data goes out in such a way, uh the results go out in such a way that it can be interrogated, so it's not just us giving it, but any registered sex offenders?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_08: Without going into details, just a yes or no?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_08: Yes.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_08: Wow, okay.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_08: Look, that's um it's pretty compelling stuff.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_08: It's it's very easy to see what police are doing, honestly.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_08: And um I would urge anyone who's listening to jump on the website as uh as Steve said, you can Google it or go through our I think our main WA police page, uh, have a look.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_08: You can come down and and try it out if you want, walk past, see how you go.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_08: Uh the 99.999% of people, it's it's not going to pick you up.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: The experience from yesterday was overwhelming support.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I went down to the deployment yesterday as I was walking uh uh along in the area.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: A lady came up to me and her words were, I've never felt as safe.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and she actually told me she'd ran one of the media channels to to tell them that.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's excellent.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's you know, that's what this is about.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like we pride ourselves on high visibility policing.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is just another layer of that.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_08: Excellent.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_08: Thank you very much, Steve.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_08: Much appreciated.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and looking just uh uh to as a sort of a recognition, if you will, a live facial recognition of uh you and your team, uh we're gonna ask our our wonderful uh WA Police Pipe Band if they can play you a tune.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_08: You may be familiar with with it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_08: It's um it's called Am I Ever Gonna See Your Face Again by the Angels?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_08: Very good.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, this is WA Police Confidential.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_06: Welcome back to WA Police Confidential.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_06: Now, last Friday it was the WA Police Recognition of Excellence Awards, which was a great night held at Optus Stadium.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_06: It was good to see all the officers dressing, their glitz and glamour, but more importantly, it was great to see everyone recognized for all their work and Maya, you were there as well.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_06: I'm sure it was a it was a great night, wasn't it?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_05: I was, and the corporate comms team has done an amazing job at putting that event together.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_05: It was really spectacular, Dan at Optus.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, it was fantastic.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_06: There was plenty of people in the room.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_06: Everyone was laughing, smiling, cheering.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_06: It was it was fantastic.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_06: The food was awesome as well.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and more importantly, the winners.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_06: So the most notable winner of the night would have been Detective Senior Sergeant Dan Clark, who won the Brilliant in Policing Individual Award.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, he was the brave officer who made the really difficult decision to evacuate a crowd of the Florida Police Rally.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_06: He took out two awards actually, but the one was the notable one wasn't the Brilliant and Policing Individual Award, which goes without saying it would have been a really difficult decision in the moment.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_06: Um there was also the Brilliant Policing Team Award, which went to Victory Crossing the Police Station.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_06: Now I know Maya, you know a little bit about Victory Crossing police, the work they do with the community, the way they connect with the locals.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_05: So we've been up there to film them quite a few times um in our team.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: So it was it was wonderful to see uh detectives I think Sergeant Mark Howes and Sergeant Jody Clark there exhibiting their awards for their team.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um they do a great job out of there.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_06: There was also Operation Aground, which is led by the major crash investigation section, led by Detective Sergeant Ollie Edwards.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_06: That investigation really gave you an insight into how it was an unsolved um fatal crash incident that happened back in 2021 and how the government police don't rest into like into the cracker case, and it took him many years in advance.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_06: Um with assistance from the police and media unit, which was able to capture someone, put them before the court, and more importantly, to bring the justice to the victim's family.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_06: So they were recognized on the night as well just through their in debt and how they solved an investigation and my uh there was an award that you were the winner of.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I'll let you build it up.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it wasn't just myself, it was the team here at Opera formerly known as Operation Podcast and our WA Police Confidential.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but yeah, definitely a shout out to Nate and Joe and Lisa as well, who have been such instrumental parts of creating the podcast.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, really good job for them.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_06: That's fantastic.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_06: There was also the um the introduction of the Wheatley Coulter award, which we actually went to journalists who are recognized for their work in portraying stories from WA police, accurate reporting.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I know one of the reporters won their award based on their coverage of the Forest Police Rally incident on the 26th of January.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_06: So it's really important to recognize journalists about how they uh do factual reporting and providing information to the public.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_06: So it was great to see them recognize as well.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks, Julian, so much for giving us that rundown of the recognition of excellence awards, and um, hopefully next year we'll get some great winners as well.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome back to WA Police Confidential.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_05: The next conversation was a pre-recorded down in Albany before we did a weapon search with the detective Stephen Cleal for Operation Yellow.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_05: In February this year, 69-year-old Erica Coyne was found deceased inside her Spencer Park home in Albany.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_05: Her son, 50-year-old Lloyd Mitchell, was located at the scene with critical injuries and later passed away in hospital.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_05: This remains an active homicide investigation, and despite extensive inquiries, there are still key pieces of the puzzle missing.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_05: In a significant development, WA police have announced a$1 million reward as we renew our appeal for information that could potentially help identify those responsible and bring closure to Erica and Lloyd's family.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_05: Joining us today is Detective Senior Sergeant Stephen Cleal from the Homicide Squad.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_05: Detective Cleal, thank you for joining us.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_05: Can you explain what led to the decision to announce this one million dollar reward and what you're hoping to achieve at this stage of the investigation?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for taking the time to talk with us.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_07: Um this is uh our number one priority, um, and we are very committed to providing much needed closure to the family and close friends and associates of both Erica and Lloyd.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_07: Um the million-dollar reward that's that is corroborative of our commitment to this job.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_07: Uh this the bottom line is, and to keep it blunt, without all the robotic talk, is this is this is unresolved.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_07: We haven't resolved this yet, and and we want to do that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_07: I personally believe there is someone or that know what happened uh inside that unit that have not come forward yet.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_07: You've now got a million reasons to come forward, and if we need to provide uh monetary incentive, then then so be it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_07: Uh and if if that's what encourages someone to come forward and speak with us, then that's how valuable your information will be to us.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_07: Any information that leads to a conviction to the person or persons responsible for this crime, uh that is worth uh a million dollars literally to us now.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_07: So anyone that is is is out there that that knows something, that has been hesitant for whatever reason uh personal to them, uh you know that this is will hopefully provide the incentive uh and an incentive that that that could lead us to resolving this and the the ultimate goal that I have, but I'm sure I I I talk on behalf of the whole team uh to provide that closure.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_07: That that's what we want to do, is give that closure to the fans.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, and for people who are listening who may think what they know isn't important, how critical can even the smallest piece of information be?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_07: 11 weeks.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_07: We have not left Albany.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_07: Uh we we have done absolutely everything of had had this job in you know reviewed twice and make sure I personally am managing on the right track and we're ticking all the boxes going above and absolutely beyond uh with investigations of this type.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_07: Um so so we are just one small clue away.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_07: I truly believe that.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_07: And and to people that are listening to this or maybe listen to this and speak to others, please know that um don't assume that we know what you know.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_07: I've heard this a lot in in all sorts of investigations I've run throughout my career where people say, Oh, look, you you you probably already know this, uh, but and and we don't.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_07: You know, you don't assume that people openly come to police and and and tell us their sins and all these kind of things that are that are hard for people to do.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_07: Don't assume we know what you know, and please don't assume that that some small detail uh wouldn't help us or that it probably wouldn't help anyway, because you you put simply you don't know that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_07: Um even if you don't know the person responsible, but you know a little piece of information that that may be what makes or breaks this case to us.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_07: Uh so any information you think that's a long-winded way of going around uh of basically saying whatever you know, please don't assume we know it.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, and you can come forward by going to the Albany Police Station to you guys or through crime stoppers as well.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, this investigation has gone on for quite some time.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, and we've spent the past day looking through some bushland out the front of one of the property.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_05: Sorry.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: The front of the property where the crime scene was.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, can you walk us through what that looked like for you guys, what you guys were doing out there?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_07: Well, the we're looking for a weapon.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_07: Um, now I don't want to be definitive on what I think that that weapon is.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, all I can tell you is that it's not an edge weapon, so like not a knife and and not a firearm.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but there is definitely a weapon involved or something used.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_07: Now you you can use anything as as a weapon, it doesn't have to be a specific weapon, you know, like uh something that was fashioned that way, uh, but but anything that could be used as a weapon, it's certainly blunt force trauma that's been that's been inflicted on both Erica uh and Lloyd.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_07: Um so we're looking for anything that could be used as a weapon.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_07: Now, the the reason we're searching there, we we have previously done searches uh on this bush land, but it is such thick and dense bushland, we could never satisfy ourselves it's been done to 100%, and that's what we're doing now.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_07: This is day two of that search, it will probably go into a day three as well, uh, looking at the amount of um uh work that's ahead of us and and and geographical area that we're searching, but it is very thick uh uh bushland.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_07: You were with me yesterday, he sort of scratches up all over me.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_07: I guess at the extent we're going through hands and knees, corners and bushes, those dawny, very bushes that we've got are uh uh uh scratching us all up, we're all bleeding and all that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_07: But it's but we want to make sure that um the the that we can either rule in or rule out that there is a weapon uh that may have been tossed in that area where specifically searching that bush because it's of its proximity and how close it is to the um uh to the crime scene.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_07: Uh we have no specific information that the the weapon is there, um, but we uh checking boxes at this point.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_05: Everything is kind of going to be tied up at some point.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_07: Exactly.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_07: No, no, no stone is left unturned.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_07: Uh and and yeah, we're this is just a a measure of how thorough we've been.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_07: In this search, we're using uh drones, we're using uh metal detectors, we're using equipment from the local Shire.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and um so yeah, we're we're going uh above and beyond.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, and I know that you're still in contact with the family as you are with all investigations like this.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um are they thankful for or grateful, I guess, for how far you guys are going into looking for answers for them?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, well, I don't want to speak on behalf of them, um, but uh I I am getting the impression from them that they are thankful for for how hard we are we are trying.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_07: They've been very patient with us, obviously.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_07: We we have not provided them the disclosure they really want, and and um I I hold myself and and the team accountable for that.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but they have been, to use a word, they've been wonderful um and and uh very open to conversations with us and very uh uh respectful of what we are trying to achieve.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_07: We haven't got there yet, but they know that we haven't give up given up and and and nor will we ever.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_07: Um so yes, they are, they are, I believe they are very uh appreciative.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um and at this point, what would justice look like for Erica and Lloyd?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_07: Um look, uh again, I I don't I it it would be rude and impolite for me to say I understand what they're going through because I I I don't I've been on this side of the fence as a as a homicide detective for many, many, many families, and it always looks different.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_07: So what what I hope answers to the family would look like, and I can only say that from my perspective, I'll certainly not speak on their behalf, but I hope providing some kind of closure to them um will help in the healing process.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_07: Obviously, nothing we can do can bring back their loved ones, um, but answers, um closure that is my experience in working with families who have suffered such tragedies, um that goes a long way in the the healing and and moving on from never forgetting but moving on from from what's happened because it's very important for for their own health and and thoughts and um yeah that's what we're trying to achieve.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um finally, what is your direct message to the community at this point in time?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_07: Please know where we're not going anywhere.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_07: I've I've repeated myself in that uh status a couple of times, but um, if you knew our resolve, knew how hard we were working, this has dominated my my work and personal life um for a for a long time.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_07: Um there's a lot of sacrifices that that we have made and and are doing so um happily.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, I want to thank the families of of all the investigators that have been involved in this and haven't given up and share my resolve um for this.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_07: Um we we want to solve this.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_07: We we want to we want to solve this.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_07: Um and the main the main reason um is for the family who we work for and for the residents of of Albany who you know this this doesn't happen often in Albany.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_07: Uh it's a lovely, beautiful town.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_07: Um and uh the it is of as it's of great public interest to the residents of Albany as well, so they deserve answers also.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_07: Um but yeah, we're not going anywhere.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_07: We want to solve this, and uh we we want this for the family and and the close friends of of both Erica and Lloyd.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_05: Perfect.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much, um Stephen, for the chat.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um again, if anybody has information, they can go to Crime Stoppers or to the police station and you can report anonymously if you wish to do so.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_05: This is WA Police Confidential.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome back to WA Police Confidential.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_05: At 158 kilometres, you travel roughly the length of a football oval in just over two seconds.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_05: Police will allege that's the speed of one of two drivers who were in separate vehicles going through Burrswood late on Monday night.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_05: The result?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_05: Two impounded cars, serious charges, and a date in court.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_05: Today we have Detective Senior Sergeant Justin Fallows and Senior Constable Giles Foster joining us to talk a little bit about the incident.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um, Detective, are you able to walk us through what happened on the night?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, so the 15th of June, uh Great Eastern Highway uh in Burrswood, in a southwesterly direction.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: So there's basically what's happened is there's been a camera set up, mobile camera, two high high performance vehicles have been detected going through this camera at high speed, which they then alerted a job.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as a result of that, uh road policing group south have taken on the investigation and conducted initial inquiries.
• 29:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um 158 kilometres, that's pretty fast and quite reckless.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um, there was a second driver as well who was travelling at 143 kilometres.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_05: What kind of goes through your mind when you see this dangerous or reckless driving happening?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as as you mentioned, the offence it's it's called reckless for a reason, and it's reckless driving because of the inherent risk of the community.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um so as you can see, the job is obviously being called in for two high performance vehicles racing.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's been identified by the camera operator, and it's important that we respond to that in a timely manner because of the risk to the community.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's far too high and too dangerous, and the outcome of that it could potentially result in death, so which is why we have to respond to it quickly.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_06: And Detective Foster, I know a lot of work went into this one to eventually catch the drivers.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_06: So how did road policing investigations take charge of this and the work that went into putting him putting him before the court?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: So we we took carriage of it on the the Wednesday morning the 17th, um, after the initial inquiries were done by road policing south.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um we needed to corroborate that the the camera speed camera safety, sorry, the speed safety camera um got both vehicles, which it did.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um so we did in inquiries to locate those vehicles, um, do follow-up inquiries and then road police investigation um identified the two drivers of those vehicles and uh they were interviewed, uh subsequently charged and uh summons to court.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, so I mean, and like you said earlier, an alleged speed of 158 kilometers per hour kilometres per hour is pretty reckless and pretty dangerous.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_06: And in your experience dealing with traffic crashes, reckless driving, what are some of the things that can occur if someone breaches that speed and unfortunately crashes?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_06: What it sounds like can be quite catastrophic.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, my uh belief is that reckless driving is the offence before you kill or seriously injure someone.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing between reckless driving and causing death uh or serious injury injury, either through careless, dangerous, or reckless.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's nothing in between them.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's that high end of investigation that we deal with that road policing.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that uh Mustang at that speed uh would be destroyed.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: It would destroy other vehicles.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: There was other vehicles on the road at that time.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it was 20 to 9 in the evening on a Monday evening.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um you got people coming out of Burrswood, uh you got other people uh using the roads and uh those speeds of both those vehicles.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: If one of them was to drift into the other lane, that would be catastrophic.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, and you guys being at road policing would obviously come in contact with a lot of these horrific crashes that happen.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it's often kind of forgotten about in some sense when people are driving, just how serious a vehicle incident can be.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_05: Do you guys have a safety message to people out there?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: If uh if you didn't do it on your drive-in test, don't do it.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: The drive-in test is a standard that we accept in WA as where you are proficient to uh go on to your Ps.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Anything you do that you didn't do on driving test day, you run a risk of not just getting infringement, but you run a risk of seriously injuring or killing someone else.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say predominantly the driver walks away, and the victim is either someone sat next to him or an innocent party, um, a road user or a pedestrian um who become uh the victim in such a case.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not worth the risk.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_06: No, and especially in this instance it looks like both vehicles were high performance vehicles.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_06: I presume that doesn't give you an excuse to think you can reach excessive speeds.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, for sure.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think even though high performance vehicles, you know, people kind of have that idea that, you know, maybe they're made better or they're built stronger, but that sort of speed, I don't think it matters how well the vehicle is going to be built.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's either yourself or someone else who's not coming out at coming out at the other end.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_05: And both these cars were impounded, so the owners will never get these cars back, is that correct?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, so they they've been impounded for 28 days.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um they there are set parameters around uh confiscations.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's parameters where they can be further impounded, um, that's through the courts.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: So upon conviction of a a speed um high-end speed, so if you drive at reckless in a 40 zone, uh reckless speed in a 50 or built-up area or 90 Ks over this uh posted speed limit, then we make an application.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we've got a team called the ATG team.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: They make an application to the courts to either have the vehicle further impounded or comp permanently confiscated.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Now that permanent confiscation may be a uh the vehicle will be crushed um if it's at limited value or if it's a high-end value like the Maserati, which was involved in um uh a recidivus disqualified driver, but same principles for reckless driving, then um the vehicle will be sold at auction and the money is put into the road trauma trust for um victims of road trauma.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_06: Detective Foster, the the listeners might rem recall a similar reckless driving incident happened in Burzwood.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_06: I think it was July last year, at a car meet where um a lot of pedestrians on the side of the road, a a car collided with a victim who at the time sustained pretty critical injuries.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_06: So my question really is this has happened before in Burzwood and at that time someone was was struck, and how can this incident how can that incident impact not just the victim and like the suspect involved but the wider community, people that were in the in the area at the time that saw it?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_06: How can this have lifelong consequences or tragic?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I th I think the the speed van that was there on Monday the 15th was there for a reason.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it is a known area for for high end speed and speeding in general.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um even the low end speed has catastrophic effect on on individuals, and and certainly last year, as you mentioned, in July, um there were a lot of um spectators uh lining the side of the road.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, that was absolutely devastating to everybody who was there, um, even police officers who attended emergency services to see that sort of injury and and then the effect on the victim's family and friends, uh the individual um who was driving the vehicle, um, the effect it's going to be it'll affect him for the rest of his life.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: Not just because he got a custodial sentence, but because the the injuries he called to cause to that victim and obviously his family and her family, you know, they they'll carry that for the rest of their lives for sure.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_05: This is WA police confidential.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: All units.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: The WA police forces looking for people, all kinds of people, people in a deep in the community and in the formal driving, dog people and hauled people, people who like motor blankets and bush bikers and planes, helicopters, and blue, people in a big old community, helping others and solving true community, not just working in the ordinary people who are people for doing extraordinary things.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_07: If you can be one of these people, you found your people.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_07: So let's join forces.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for listening to another episode of WF Police Confidential.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_05: Now, last week we were talking about the Roman Empire.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_05: Julian, how often do you think about the Roman Empire?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_06: Not at all.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it turns out that one of the most popular traditions in policing has its origins way back in the days of the toga and the sandal.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_05: I'm talking about challenge coins.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_05: Jules, have you seen a couple challenge coins out there?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, I'm not luckily enough to have one on me though.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_05: Uh well, we've we've got to change that.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_05: We've got to get a WA police confidential challenge coin for sure.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_05: Now, in Roman armies, if a soldier stood out in battle, they would receive their typical day's wages along with a separate bonus coin.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_05: Some soldiers would keep these special coins as mementos instead of spending them.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: Fast forward to World War II and Allied forces created distinctive coins to build morale and unit cohesion.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_05: Bomber squadrons, infantry divisions, and naval groups developed designs often featuring unit insignias or aircraft silhouettes as symbols of their service.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_05: This is where the tradition of the challenge coin is connected to proving identification or affiliation through the presentation of your coin.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_05: The act of challenging was referred to as a coin check.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_05: Anyone carrying anyone who wasn't carrying one would buy a round of drinks.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_05: Now, the practice has widely spread to police and emergency services right across the world as symbols of memberships for special events or to swappers' gifts.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_05: The WA Police Museum is now actually collecting these challenge coins as well.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_05: The WA Police Museum is now adding challenge coins to its collection.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_05: Now, Julian, we have a pipe band song.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, yes.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_05: Can you guess what the pipe band song is?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_05: This is WA Police Company.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sound editing by Joe and Danny and Sam.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Cover song by the WA Police Pipe Band, and cheesy podcast theme music by Joey Canzaro.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, why just listen to a podcast about policing when you could actually be doing it?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Let's join forces.wa.gov.au.