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Evening With A Legend: Margie Smith-Haas · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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Evening with a Legend is a series of presentations exclusive to
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Legends of the Famous 24 Hours of Le Mans, giving us an opportunity
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to bring a piece of Le Mans to you.
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By sharing stories and highlights of the big event, you get a chance
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to become part of the legend of Le Mans, with guests from different
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eras of over 100 years of racing.
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Tonight, we have an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to
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you, sharing in the legend of Le Mans with guests from different
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eras of over 100 years of racing.
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And as your host, I'm delighted to introduce Margie Smith Haas.
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She's a trailblazer in motorsports, renowned for her remarkable contributions
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to endurance racing, particularly at the iconic 24 Hours of Le Mans.
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She was the first American woman to compete in this grueling event in
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1984 and then again in 1985, where she broke barriers while demonstrating
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exceptional skill, determination, and composure behind the wheel.
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Her racing performances outside of Le Mans have earned her widespread respect
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within the racing community, highlighting her as a role model for aspiring drivers.
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Balancing both technical expertise with endurance, Margie's legacy at Le Mans
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is one of perseverance, professionalism, and passion for the sport.
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And with that, I'm your host, Crew Chief Eric from the Motoring
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Podcast Network, welcoming everyone to this evening with a legend.
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And with that, Margie, welcome to the show.
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Nice to be here.
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Thank you.
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Well, like all good stories, there's an origin.
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So let's talk about how you got into motorsports.
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Did you come from a racing family?
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When did you first turn laps?
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And let's also evolve that into your road to Le Mans.
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How did you get there and how did you put that deal together?
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My first opportunity racing was in 1972.
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When my parents were out of town and I disconnected the odometer on his
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Buick Electra and took it to the drag races, took the hubcaps off and stuff.
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And he never found out about it until 10 years later, whenever I showed him some
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of the newspaper articles, cause I'd started racing and he said, you little.
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I knew you did with that car and I'm like, yeah, dad, but now you can feel
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responsible because basically the start with the cars, I see the 914 over your
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head in the back, as you're aware, we're enthusiasts for 914 and I bought
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my first 914, got in Porsche club, did all kinds of their driving stuff.
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You know, I thought, well, wait a minute, I'm got pretty good talent here.
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And, and that's what got me started and taught me car
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control and mechanics on the car.
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As I understand it, you started pro racing when you turned 28 years old and
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your first race was at Road America.
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That's correct.
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In fact, Wayne Baker, who had a 914, had competed with me in
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some of the Porsche club stuff.
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In fact, whenever we went to the 1978 Porsche parade, he let me drive his car.
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And I ended up taking top time a day for the whole parade till the last two cars.
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So I got top time of the day in women.
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So with how I was showing my skill there, he invited me and my husband
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to drive at the race at Road America.
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Because whenever I was getting my SCCA licenses and stuff, we
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would pit together with our 914s.
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So we got to know each other quite well.
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So you mentioned Paul, your late husband, and you met him through racing.
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Oh yeah, that's quite a story.
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I was a school teacher in Phoenix, Arizona, and Paul lived in San Diego.
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And there's this This track in the middle of nowhere called Holtville in
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the middle of the desert in California.
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I saw that there was a, an event there, so I went to the event and we saw each other
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and my friend introduced us and, you know, we kind of compared our driving thoughts
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were and our goals were in driving and stuff and we really hit it off.
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And so it ended up that we were dating about every 2 weeks.
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He'd fly to Arizona.
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I'd fly to San Diego.
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And then unfortunately, the day after school was out, I
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had a very bad car accident.
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I was thrown out of the car.
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Luckily, he survived and he came over to help take care of me.
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And so I ended up having to take a medical leave of absence and
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ended up moving to San Diego.
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We've just been an awesome team together because he's such a coach and so smart
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in what he does as far as designing cars with aerodynamics and new things.
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And I think he was quite well respected by our other racers with his designs.
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So we were married for 43 years.
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Paul also had a hand in helping you get to Le Mans.
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So how did all that come together?
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From that, some SCCA Trans Am.
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We got a 924 GTR.
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We didn't do well in that.
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Uh, we kept having head gaskets blow, but I'd driven the pro celebrity race at
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Long Beach, and there I met Dan Gurney.
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Dan Gurney said, where in the hell have you been?
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And I'm like, well, I've been driving Porsche Club stuff and whatever.
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Soon after that pro celebrity race, I got a call from Terry Kargus,
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and He said, Dan wanted me to drive on his Toyota factory team.
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And I said, well, who will I be driving with?
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He said, Gene Hackman.
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Cause Gene was one of the drivers in the pro celebrity race too.
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I did well.
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I came home early from that race and I get a call at two o'clock in the morning.
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And it's Juergen Barth calling from Germany and I'm saying, Juergen,
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what, why are you calling me?
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He says, Oh, Margie.
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He says, I want to know if you'd like to drive a Kremer CK5 at
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Monza, Italy in a couple of weeks.
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And I think the reason I was being invited to do that was because I'd had a. Very
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successful test in a 935 with Jim Busby.
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Perhaps how I did with that and the fact that I'd just done the pro celebrity
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race and was going to drive for Gurney, maybe that's why that invitation came.
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So, so he said, we'd like to know if you'd like to drive a Kramer CK5.
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And so I nudged Paul and I said, Hey, Paul, Juergen's calling, wants to know
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if you want to drive a Kramer CK5.
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And he said, tell him yes.
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And we'll call him in the morning.
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So I called Jim Busby right away.
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And I said, Hey, Jim.
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I got a call from Jurgen.
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What the hell is a Krimmer CK5?
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Should I drive?
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And he said, yes, yes, yes.
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You'll do great.
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You'll do great.
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And if he would like me to drive Le Mans with you as your co
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driver, I would like to do that.
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And I'm like, wow.
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And so in result was, you know, Jim said, hey, listen, Margie, you can drive it.
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You did well with the 935.
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And, you know, Jim was a big part of the help that I got.
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And also, you know, obviously my husband, Paul and Wayne Baker, and obviously the
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Dan Gurney thing is a pretty cool story.
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I don't know if we'll get into that one, but that's a little feather in my cap.
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You know, as I look at my history, I felt that I made the right choice and
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not driving the 935 after the test, even though I stepped away from driving that.
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Race, because I didn't feel I had enough laps in it.
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Otherwise I would have driven with Jim and Vern Shupin, but I
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felt it was a good choice to make.
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You can really ruin your career if you step into something
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that's over your head too fast.
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So either way, I went to Monza and drove the Kremer CK5.
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Unfortunately, we had the situation where as we were going down the straightaway,
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I say, wait, me in the car and I'm going into the hard braking area.
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Suddenly this tail came out and I backed into the sand pit.
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But here comes all of these 956's launches and whatever they're coming right at me.
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And I'm thinking, oh, this is scary because my feet were not behind the axle.
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This was a car that the feet were in front.
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So I thought, oh, I'm going to lose my feet.
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I didn't get hit by them.
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I pulled back out on the track and then I had a slow spin and I
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pulled out again and it's slow spin.
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So I pulled off the track to find out that I had a hole in the, in the oil cooler.
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When I got to the pits, I asked Juergen about it and he says.
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Yeah, I saw the trail of oil going in.
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You must have gotten into some of the debris from the launches, tires that
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were exploding and taking out part of the body work and part of that body
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work went through that oil cooler.
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So that was a short race.
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Didn't get much time in it, especially since in the early part of that race,
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Richard Clear, who is the owner from England and Tony drawn, Richard was
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driving the car and he had the turbos below and there was a two page spread
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in a forming the one magazine that.
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Showed that car with the turbos blown.
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So we didn't get hardly any practice in the car at all, but Juergen was there
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driving the boss car and, and as I said, Juergen was quite helpful in all
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of my racing and he helped many of the people that were customers of Porsche
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set him up with teams and cars, and he's the one who then set me up for
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some of the races that were to follow.
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With the world endurance championship series and the
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world endurance championship series centered at Silverstone.
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And we did not run because the car was overweight.
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Then the next race that was at Brands Hatch, that's whenever I was
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connected with Charles Ivy racing.
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And a Porsche Group B 930 Turbo.
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This all leads up to 1984.
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We're still in the early eighties at this point.
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So let's talk about Brands Hatch.
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Cause this is another stepping stone to how you got with the
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Charles Ivy team at Le Mans.
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So let's keep going.
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Yeah.
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And so what happened is there would be some races where Paul would be driving
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a car in Europe too, and I would be driving the car and we'd be on the same
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track competing against each other.
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It was pretty deep, but sometimes his car would break.
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And there was one time that they put him in the seat in the car with me.
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And Paul Smith, and so they were trying to figure out what was Smith, Smith,
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Haas, Haas doing on the side door?
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Like, who are you married to?
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Or are you with both of these guys?
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So, either way, what happened at Brands Hatch?
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Here, I'm getting to the car.
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I had never driven a right side drive car.
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I'd never done left side shift.
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I'd never driven in the rain and I'd never driven the track.
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So I'm like thinking I'm real green on this one, but you got to learn somewhere.
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So Paul Smith went out and he drove the car and he pulls in
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and we have an electrical fire.
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So the electrical fire, they got it out and stuff.
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And then we just so happened to rain and here I've never driven in the rain either.
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It's so happens to rain because of the electrical fire, the
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winter wipers wouldn't work.
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I'm like thinking, is there anything else they could throw at me?
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And they could, and that's coming.
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So I did go out and I was learning the track and stuff.
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And in the back part of Brands Hatch is whenever you watch for the
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956s and the, you know, obviously the faster cars to come through.
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And so I was learning the track and then when I was in the back section,
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I would make sure that I would time their arrival to me so that even if
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I had to slow down, we wouldn't be beside each other in the corner because
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it could end up slowing us both down.
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And I'm sure they appreciated that too.
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And probably was easier on me as I'm going through that turn after they passed.
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Suddenly there's just a big puff of like a sound that goes when
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I'm like, what the hell is that?
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And then suddenly I'm just starting to feel.
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Well, I wonder what that was.
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And I'm sort of like feeling really messed up.
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And so, you know, how you see these pixelated pictures where they'll cover
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stuff up you don't want people to see.
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Well, that's what everything was looking like.
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And I thought, Oh, my God, I've got two more turns.
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I got to get back to the pits.
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Can I find my way back to the pits?
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So I did.
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But of course, I arrived early.
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And the next driver to get in is like, look at me like, What are you doing here?
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You know, they opened the door and I said, I don't know.
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I mean, it did really mess me up.
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And they said, I think we need to get her out of the car.
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So they got me out.
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And I think the medics looked at me and said, you can't drive for, I
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think another hour or so, but that one, we did get a third place finish.
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And was the first race with Charles Ivy Racing.
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From my reading, Juergen Barth had a lot of respect for Charles Ivy.
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And as we lead into the story about Le Mans, you know, Charles
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Ivy Racing had won their class at Le Mans three years in a row.
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I think that's why whenever this 1st event at Silverstone didn't work, considering
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we got all the way over there, and the car was overweight, didn't even get to run.
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That was a little disturbing.
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Juergen positioned us with a very reputable team, and I really got
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along with Paul Smith and David Ovi.
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So after Monza, I had gone into the Mugello race.
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We went there and, oh, there must have been eight, they were all white 930s.
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And I've got the video.
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I've got an old video that I looked at.
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It's awesome watching these old, old videos of these cars back in
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83, the 956s and all the old cars.
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So it ended up that we did well in that race.
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You know, we just kept our nose clean and we got a third place there.
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Obviously with endurance racing, you've got to go and get fast,
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but you also got to think smart.
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It's not who's there at the 23rd hour, it's who's there at the 24th hour.
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The main thing that I wanted to do is prove to the team
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that I was a reliable driver.
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I would work up my skills and stuff.
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But you didn't want to try to go too fast, too soon and make mistakes.
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And they were pleased.
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And then that started moving into them asking me and saying, Hey,
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listen, I think we should pair up for next year's 24 Hours at Le Mans.
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Unlike some of the other legends that we've had on the program, we'll use
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Rick Newp as an example, or even Rob Dyson, or some of the other folks that
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have come to talk who didn't have.
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A lot of European driving experience before they got to Lamar, they
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sort of learned it when they showed up and did their practice laps.
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Looking at your history, you spent a lot of time at different tracks in Europe.
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What kind of advice were you given before going to Lamar?
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How were you able to practice it?
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Were there videos available, things like that, where you could study the track?
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I had nothing that I tell you nowadays, you look at what they
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got as far as tools to learn.
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I mean, whenever I was in racing SCCA or even IMSA, you know,
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you'd call up your buddies.
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Hey, hey.
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Did you get any in car footage with that, you know, VHS tape that
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you had hooked to your roll bar?
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Oh yeah, I got some and that's all you'd have.
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I mean, I think I had the drawing out of the booklet for what the
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track looked like at all these races.
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I had no coaching, you know, I think we tried to walk the track
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between the rainstorms and stuff.
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But you know, one thing that was interesting, I, I
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remember going into Lamar.
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I had called Dick Barber.
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I was past president of Portia Club San Diego region and he was as well.
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And so I called him and asked him for his advice and he said,
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okay, here's what you need to do.
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You need to make sure that as if you're going to notice this as you go
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down the straightaway, you're going to see the restaurant on the left.
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I'm going to say, do I have time to look for the restaurant on the left?
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And he said, then you'll see, you know, and there were people
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there, you know, suddenly you can, oh, okay, there are people there.
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And then he said, look off to the right.
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There's a billboard.
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And whenever you see that billboard, I want you just to lift
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up and back down on the throttle.
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So you collapse the boost.
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So you don't build up too much boost in the car.
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Cause you've got a long straightaway.
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And then he said, and then as you go through the kink and you're going
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down the straightaway, you're getting ready to come up and over the hill
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to break into the malls on corner.
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He said.
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Drag your left foot on the break so that you will be able to heat
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up the rotors so that otherwise they heat up so fast they crack.
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So that was a lot of his main advice to me.
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So we go, you know, try to learn as much the track.
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In fact, the other day, I think I found.
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The scribbled sheet where I wrote everything.
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Okay.
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And Dick said something about there's some woman who's scantily
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dressed who's sitting on top.
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She's always on the arm.
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Co going into Porsche cars.
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I'm like, do I really care?
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So, but Dick was very helpful.
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I was very honored that he gave me his time to give me information.
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So I didn't have any of the.
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Audio visual stuff and whatever, you know, you just talk to other
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drivers and stuff like that.
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Now, as we got in and I'll move on on kind of the transition to Lamar, they said,
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hey, listen, here's what we need to do.
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Let's have you drive the 24 hours of Daytona.
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So you can see how it's like to drive a long race.
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See how it's like to drive at night.
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Do you have vertigo?
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Do you have problems with lights glaring in your eyes?
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Cause that's, what's going to happen at Le Mans.
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It's probably good to know that before you go over to Le Mans.
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So the end result was I went to Daytona.
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We had a good team, but you know, there was some things that were not going well,
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technically or mechanical on the car.
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I had mentioned to you that whenever I was a school teacher.
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I was racing my little Porsche and, you know, doing stuff and getting race
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tires and stuff, and that costs money.
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And on a school teacher's budget, I cannot afford to pay to have all that done.
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So I learned how to do my own valves, adjust my own carburetors, take
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out and rebuild my own carburetors.
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Understood what a CV joint looked like, couldn't get it fixed, so I had to keep
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going in circles till I could find a way to get into my driveway because
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I couldn't turn the other direction.
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That was interesting.
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And then the other thing was I had at one stage, whenever I was
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driving the car, I had the throttle stick to the floor whenever I was
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taking the off ramp in Phoenix.
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And so I knew that, you know, hey, to stamp that pedal and it popped up.
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Well, it's a good thing I had some of this.
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Experience, because when I got to Daytona, I had to rely on it and I had to be
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able to give that feedback to the crew.
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I think a lot of more women drivers are doing it, being able to give
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feedback and understand the mechanics of the car and stuff, understanding
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the physics of the car, what it's doing and how you can give feedback.
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So they can best set the car up for your next session.
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So what happened at Daytona, they got into the car and the
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first session or a few times out.
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You know, you'll go up in the banking and the banking is so steep.
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It really, really is murder on CV joints.
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And so then when you come down in the back straight and you take the
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school bus turn, and then as you're coming out of the school bus, you
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go to go back up on the banking.
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Well, as I was coming out of the school bus turn, I noticed that
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I started to get a slipping.
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In other words, like the tranny was slipping.
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I thought, Oh my God, I've got a CV joint going.
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And I thought, if I can't get this car back to the pits.
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We're out of the race.
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So I'm thinking school teacher.
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Here we go.
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And so what I did is I would jerk the car drastically back and forth
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trying to get 1 of those little balls to drop back into that mouse trap.
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So it would sort of start catching and it did catch and I was able
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to get the car into the pits.
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And they got that changed.
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So that was good.
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But then the next problem reared its ugly head.
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My next step, when I got into the car, I pressed the accelerator full throttle and
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the straightaway coming out of the hot pits and the throttle stuck to the floor.
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And I'm like, Oh my God.
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So obviously you don't push the clutch in because you're losing the engine.
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So I needed to shut the engine off.
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And then I started stamping my foot on the pedal, knowing I
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had had this happen with my 914.
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Finally got it to come up.
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I went and I got went back in the pits and I pulled it.
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I said, hey, guys, the throttle sticking down.
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And I said, it's right here under here.
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There's this little hammer looks like a little toggle type thing.
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I said, I think it's bent because I've had it happen in my car.
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And they said, Oh, no, no, no.
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They kept working on the back and I, and what they said they were working on slide
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valve injection or something like that.
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I'm like, okay, no, they sent me back out and I did it again.
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And I came in and I said, listen, guys, you got to get this fixed
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because otherwise, you know, somebody is going to get hurt here and I don't
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want to put this car in a wall and I definitely don't want to get hurt
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and I'd like to finish this race.
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And so they still kept saying slide valve injection in the
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back or whatever they called it.
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Paul comes in the window and said, Hey, Paul.
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Go get a rope.
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So we get a rope.
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We tie it to the pedal.
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We take it up to the roll bar, ride it around the roll bar.
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So now I have like my giddy up.
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Whoa, whoa.
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So it's like, I go out.
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They said they had it fixed.
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It still got stuck.
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And I just pull that up.
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I had to drive the rest of my leg saying giddy up and whoa.
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So whenever I gave the car over to the next guy, I think his last name was
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Zuzelka, so I gave the car to him and he goes out and does one lap and he
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comes in and he was white as a ghost.
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And he said, you either fix it.
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Or I ain't driving it.
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Guess what?
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They fixed it.
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They unhooked the rope and they put in the part that was
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bent underneath the throttle.
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So sometimes, you know, being a woman in racing, they probably
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don't believe what you have to say.
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And I could have saved him a lot of time, but that's a hell of a story.
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And we ended up finishing.
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Sixth in GTO and maybe a lot of people don't know.
19:46
And we preface this episode talking about how you were the first American
19:49
woman to run the 24 hours in Le Mans.
19:51
Yeah, there were other women who drove the 24 hours of Daytona.
19:54
I was the first to drive both of them because obviously, you know, and
19:57
other people had driven it and done quite well, but somebody said, well,
20:00
you're also, if you're the first to do Le Mans, you also got to be the
20:03
first to do both of that ties in well with the story of Le Mans, because.
20:08
It was a good testing ground.
20:10
I'm glad we finished 6th in GTO.
20:12
So that springboards us into 1984.
20:14
You're with the Charles Ivey team in the 934, the burgundy 911 that you see in
20:18
the pictures that'll be in the follow on article and on the Facebook group.
20:21
And so you get to Le Mans and you had already been to Monza, you'd been to
20:25
Silverstone, you'd been to Mugello, you'd been to all these other places.
20:28
But Lamar is different.
20:29
It has a different character.
20:30
It is a different personality.
20:32
It just greets the drivers differently.
20:34
The whole thing is a circus in some respects.
20:36
So tell us about your first impressions being there in 84 new car, new
20:41
team, all these kinds of things.
20:43
What did you take away from those first moments at Lamar?
20:46
Well, it was almost like the whole welcome thing.
20:49
You know, it's.
20:49
The track and part of the track is the area of the country.
20:52
The people, the churches, the restaurants.
20:55
Oh my God.
20:55
The restaurants were great.
20:56
If you had time to eat, but one thing that was cool.
20:59
When we first got there, the Porsche factory had boycotted in 1984.
21:03
They did not run in 84.
21:05
And so what happened was, because the Portia family didn't come, the lady
21:10
who was with the public relations with Portia, Ilse Nadely, I think she was
21:14
also a secretary to Husky von Honstein.
21:18
So she said, well, Margie, we got you set up in the Chateau Vaudreuil.
21:21
And that's the one that the Porsche family stayed in.
21:24
So that was cool.
21:24
So that's my first thing, okay.
21:26
And I'm thinking, wow, this is a cool start.
21:28
Now let's get out to the track and stuff.
21:30
You step into the track and, because it was the old track, front straightaway
21:35
looked a whole lot different.
21:36
We're talking the garages were quite old and in the back walkway,
21:39
it was just a gravel thing and you needed to change your driver's suit.
21:43
It was like, okay, guys, go for it.
21:44
But this ain't working for me.
21:46
So I was having to go to the restroom and stuff.
21:48
You know, you'd look up and then all the crowd will be up in the
21:51
grandstands over you just going over the scene, the, the Ferris wheel
21:57
and stuff that you'd heard about and whatever, and just the old towns.
22:01
And then at the end of the malls on straight, the old buildings that are,
22:04
you know, the town of malls on, you know, we didn't have the canes in the back.
22:08
Straight.
22:09
We just had the kink, which I'm glad I got to experience the kink.
22:12
It was definitely one of those pucker factors.
22:14
Sort of like road America.
22:15
Yeah.
22:16
Yeah.
22:16
Once you did it, you better do it the same way next time.
22:19
So the team was there and the unfortunate thing that happened.
22:23
And I didn't find this out really notice it that much.
22:26
Cause I so focused on the track and stuff like that was that Charles Ivan was great,
22:31
but here he'd won three races in a row.
22:35
And so they had a shirt printed out that said, let's make it four and 84.
22:39
That would have been absolutely awesome because, you know, I would
22:42
have been a female that was winning.
22:44
Of course, you know, there's other awesome female drivers that I had met
22:47
that weren't driving that Le Mans.
22:49
So one thing that happened back to Charles Ivy.
22:51
They had done so well in three races.
22:53
And unfortunately, what did happen in this particular race, they entered too
22:57
many cars, in fact, none of them finished.
23:00
It was unfortunate because Paul Smith said, he said, I think we could
23:03
have had the opportunity to win, but also the car wasn't running.
23:07
Well, as he had said to me, it was overheating.
23:10
The oil was hydraulicking from what he was saying.
23:13
So that was creating problems.
23:14
So that led us into, you know, we did the practices.
23:17
We tried to save the car.
23:19
So we had plenty for the race.
23:21
Then it was time for qualifying, and I had not qualified yet.
23:27
Of course, they said every lap is really qualifying, I guess, but I
23:30
was still way learning the track.
23:32
I had not been to the track before, and they had, and it's
23:34
not an easy track to learn.
23:35
It's a long one.
23:36
I hadn't turned a time that was quick enough yet, because you had to do a
23:39
certain percentage of the number of cars, and that percentage kept getting
23:43
higher because the faster cars were out there, and they're moving the
23:46
bars, so that meant the lower cars.
23:48
Had to move the bar too, because obviously we were the last few cars on the grid,
23:52
the cars and the car was regularly a group B car, but they did make a and
23:57
Paul said that by doing so, they were trying to take advantage of certain
24:00
things and lighter here and whatever.
24:02
But there were some parts of the rules that they did not take advantage of that.
24:07
They could have done when it came to qualifying here.
24:09
They've turned their times.
24:11
And now it's getting into the night and I need to turn a time that is fast enough.
24:17
And I had not gone through the kink flat out yet.
24:19
So they said, okay, we're going to send you out and you do four laps.
24:23
Well, the thing is you're doing four laps, but those are long laps.
24:26
You're not getting to learn a whole lot of the track.
24:28
There's a lot of stuff happening in between.
24:30
So I come in and I think it was Peter Twitchen, I think,
24:34
uh, was the crew chief's name.
24:36
And he said, tell me in his English accent.
24:39
Well, how's it going out there?
24:41
You got more in the car?
24:42
And I said, I think I've got lots.
24:44
And he says, well, can you give it to us now?
24:48
Please?
24:49
He even said, please.
24:51
And Paul Smith was just, I guess he was beside himself.
24:53
And I went out.
24:54
And right after I left, after I'd gone by the first time, 10 seconds
24:59
later, they dropped the white flag.
25:01
It wasn't my last lap.
25:02
I got to do one more flying lap.
25:04
And on that last lap.
25:06
I knocked off 8 seconds because I said to myself, I'm going through
25:10
that kink and I'm just going to keep that pedal down flat out and I'm
25:14
going to come out on the other side.
25:16
And hopefully it's with all 4 wheels on the ground.
25:18
I have got to knock a high amount of time off and I did.
25:22
And I guess the crew is going nuts.
25:24
And so that was nice.
25:25
So we did qualify the car, but we still had the overheating problems.
25:29
So, during the course of the night, whenever I did my one leg, this
25:32
was just before dusk, and I'm going down the Molson Strait, and I can
25:36
see, you imagine this is a little traumatic for me to see the 1st time.
25:39
Here's cars burning.
25:42
The forest is on fire and there's a driver laying in the road.
25:45
And I'm going through the smoke and there was a car in front of me.
25:48
I needed to make sure I didn't hit him.
25:50
Apparently, when we came around, you know, the ambulances were there and
25:53
they were, John Sheldon and the Aston Martin and Drake Olson had come together.
25:58
One got into the Armco and then bounced off and collected the other one.
26:02
And John was burnt very badly.
26:05
He did return the next year and drive.
26:07
But unfortunately, one corner worker was killed and another one hurt badly.
26:12
We were under almost an hour of yellow flag, but I watched my 1984 video of that
26:18
race and the um, person who was behind the Pace car was saying, I cannot believe
26:22
they haven't red flagged this race, you know, and then put people back out.
26:26
So that was a little bit of a scary thing.
26:28
So we drove through the night and I got out of the car and take a little
26:31
rest in the Volkswagen when I came back to the pits for my next leg.
26:36
The car was parked there with a puddle of oil under it, because
26:38
he said something about the chain had broken through and busted.
26:42
I don't know.
26:42
So the car was out and, you know, he did say he felt that we would have
26:46
done better had it not been for having too many cars entered in the race.
26:50
It was a disappointing finish in 84.
26:52
You weren't to be stopped in any way.
26:54
This wasn't the end of your racing career by any stretch of the imagination.
26:58
I was looking at the video and so they were interviewing
27:00
Brian Redman and Brian said.
27:04
I've driven this bloody race 10 times, and I've yet to finish.
27:08
A lot of people, if you look at DNFs and whatever, need to understand when
27:12
it's a 24 hour race, there's a lot of DNFs that happen, and, and you're
27:16
lucky if you're one that gets through.
27:18
In fact, it's amazing how many people will win Le Mans or be in the top
27:21
three, that during the course of the night, with all their mechanical issues,
27:25
you would have bet, you know, your life on it, that they're not going to
27:27
win the race or be in the top three.
27:29
1984, you get to the end.
27:32
of this event.
27:33
Had you realized at that point that you were the first American
27:36
woman to compete at Le Mans?
27:37
Did that hit you at any point when you were there?
27:40
No, I did know I was the only woman in 84 and 85.
27:44
You know, I was getting a lot of stares.
27:46
I mean, it was like, even though there were other women drivers there
27:48
and I, that's whenever I did meet Charlotte Vernet, a lovely lady.
27:52
So what happened was it came to 2013.
27:55
I ran it in 1984, now it's 2013, and the man who purchased the car that
28:01
I drove in 1985, that was driven by Jens Venter, the Danish guy,
28:05
he has a phenomenal auto museum.
28:09
And in fact, he's so close with Christensen that whenever that car
28:13
comes off the track after winning Le Mans, it goes on a trailer with all
28:17
the dirt on it and goes to his museum.
28:19
Just amazing museum.
28:20
So, what happened was, he had bought the car.
28:23
And he was going to have a promotional thing at the museum, and he brought
28:28
David Ovey from England over, myself, and that was also Jens Venter from Denmark.
28:33
He had us as the special guests.
28:36
Whenever they were doing the press release about it, I get a call
28:40
from the journalist, and he said, and I thought it was very nice.
28:42
It's be nice if people would sometimes check if the press release is accurate.
28:46
He had something in it and I said, wait, wait, hold, hold, hold it.
28:50
What's this?
28:51
This is saying I was the first American woman to drive the 24 hours of Le Mans.
28:54
Huh?
28:55
He says, yeah, well, you were looking Wikipedia and see, I haven't done
28:58
any Wikipedia stuff and whatever.
29:00
I haven't, not a lot of my racing out there.
29:02
In fact, I probably, people say you need to do something because people
29:05
would like to know some of the history, even though it's not always the
29:08
best record, but you're a pioneer.
29:10
That was pretty surprising to me.
29:12
But that was the first time.
29:13
So 29 years later, I find out.
29:15
Because you know what?
29:16
I was not driving to be the first at anything.
29:20
I was driving because I love to compete and I wanted to win.
29:24
And admittedly, you've got to pay your dues to win.
29:27
So that was quite a surprise for me.
29:29
You had a second attempt at Lamar.
29:31
Following year in 1985.
29:33
And what's interesting is if you look at your racing career, you
29:36
really leapfrogged cars going from a nine 14, six to the nine 34.
29:40
And then you make this big jump into group C2 running the URD BMW.
29:45
So totally different team, totally different car.
29:47
If you look at the group C2 cars.
29:49
They're sort of the beginning of what we consider today, the prototype classes.
29:54
What was it like taking the jump from a production car to basically a prototype?
29:59
What did 85 teach you?
30:01
How did that all work out for you in comparison to the year before?
30:04
Well, I got more track time in 84.
30:06
We lasted longer.
30:07
The BMW was an extremely, extremely awesome car.
30:12
In my discussions with David Mercer, he had mentioned that
30:15
the car had no rev limiter.
30:17
And it also had a very light and flywheel.
30:20
I had, uh, over revved, you know, I hadn't blown an engine before.
30:24
And after this all happened, because I was the person who, unfortunately,
30:28
that happened while under my watch.
30:30
Why they weren't putting in a rev limiter.
30:34
Couldn't quite understand that.
30:35
The car had its quirks and stuff and he said he'd driven it several times.
30:39
And there was a lot of stuff that he had to learn about
30:42
the car that he already knew.
30:43
And unfortunately, I had to witness and I made the mistake.
30:47
And I have to admit, it's really embarrassing.
30:49
But I sit there thinking, well, look at all the other DNFs.
30:51
I'm sure other people have had engines go, but it was unfortunate.
30:55
It was at such a phenomenal race.
30:57
And a few years later, I talked to, uh, Jens Venter, and he said that they really
31:02
enjoyed driving with me and that he would have liked to see us drive some more.
31:07
In fact, I'm trying to think that car had not finished any
31:09
race over a thousand kilometers.
31:12
But it was a beautiful car.
31:13
And I think it's still at the museum.
31:15
I really enjoyed driving it.
31:17
It's just unfortunate.
31:18
As a high aero, basically a ground effects car compared to the 911.
31:21
Was it easier to drive?
31:23
Oh, it was awesome.
31:24
It was awesome.
31:25
And it was like a slot car.
31:26
I didn't get to really experience it with the Kramer CK5 because that
31:29
was a C1 car too, but we didn't get hardly any time in that car.
31:33
In fact, one person said that I didn't turn any laps at
31:36
all and contacted Juergen.
31:38
I said, was I not there?
31:39
He said, yeah, you turned laps there.
31:41
So the one thing about the URD.
31:44
Was that the ground effects was something that you needed to work up to it.
31:48
So you trust the car.
31:49
And I think I mentioned to you with my American city racing league
31:53
experience, even though, you know, that's after the Lamar stuff.
31:56
And I went in and I won that championship, which I really, I'm still just in
32:00
awe that I was able to do that.
32:02
I wish if I had it to do over again, that car taught me so much about aerodynamics.
32:07
Cause I felt like I was part of the car.
32:09
I didn't feel like I was a driver getting in and driving the car.
32:13
I felt like my body was part of it.
32:15
I probably would have had had a faster learning curve had I had more
32:18
experience in an aerodynamic car.
32:20
But still sometimes you got to take what you can.
32:23
It was unfortunate that I didn't make it at the second 24 hour race.
32:26
But you know what?
32:27
It's just like Brian Redmond said, I've driven it how many times?
32:30
I still haven't bloody finished.
32:32
So I'm like thinking, Brian, thank you for your quote, because it really helps
32:36
people understand what is going on here.
32:39
So was there an opportunity to run again 86 or later?
32:44
Had you made a decision to just give up on endurance racing altogether?
32:47
I mean, you already.
32:48
Implied that you went to ACRL.
32:51
So what made you make that transition?
32:53
Paul wanted to be in charge.
32:55
We had a three car team and just the design of the car and stuff.
32:59
We did invest in Swift.
33:00
We're one of the helped invest in Swift and he just loved the cars and.
33:05
We would go to races and he would do things to these cars
33:07
that you've probably seen it.
33:09
We were called the Batmobile everything.
33:11
We'd show up at the races and people look and say, look at that front nose.
33:15
My God, look at that elongated tail and everything all done within the rules.
33:19
You know, when we'd show up, we'd put a cover on it.
33:21
Doesn't you know how they cover all their stuff?
33:23
So Paul would do that.
33:24
On the sports 2000 in the next week, everybody'd come with a nose or
33:27
something that looked like Paul's because they wanted to know what's
33:30
he got up his sleeve this week.
33:31
And our car, whenever I won the championship in that car, it was the
33:35
heaviest and oldest car in the grid.
33:37
But what made it really work was the aerodynamics.
33:40
And the other thing too, he was a wonderful coach.
33:43
He was so well learned in what he was doing.
33:46
When I won that championship, he had cancer the first part of that year.
33:50
The first two races, I was in second place by two tenths of a second.
33:54
And so whenever he told me he had cancer, I said, well, I'm hanging up my helmet.
33:58
He says, no, no, no, no, no.
33:59
He said, I know this is your year.
34:00
I'd have to help drive the rig and get the rig up to the races, and then
34:04
another crew member would fly him in.
34:06
So I ended up setting a pole, and then I went to Vancouver, and
34:12
here I was in my Valvoline suit with the Say No to Drugs program.
34:15
Robbie Gordon was also with Valvoline.
34:18
I had set the pole at the race before, and they said the only reason I set the
34:21
pole was because the guy who usually ran first, Peter, was at a wedding.
34:25
I sort of took that as a little bit of an insult, but I also realized when I get
34:29
to that race, I could also push myself.
34:31
I've thought smart.
34:32
I've always put pressure on the person in front of me.
34:35
So if I can always finish second and make sure I put pressure on
34:38
the person in front of me that they make a mistake, I've got this thing.
34:41
So when we went to Vancouver, I thought, well, okay, Walls,
34:45
I better just step it back.
34:46
Don't try to get the pole, just finish.
34:49
But that was just sort of a different feeling than what I'd
34:52
had through the whole season.
34:53
So when I walked out, just before we pulled out to go for qualifying, I still.
34:57
Looked at everybody and I pointed my finger and I just thought I
35:00
can beat you, you, you, you, you.
35:02
I got in the car.
35:03
I went out.
35:03
I thought that I wasn't pushing it.
35:05
Lo and behold, I got the pole.
35:06
So that two pole points, I didn't find out until after we finished the race.
35:10
I finished second.
35:11
Scorekeeper called me in the car on the way home from the track
35:14
and said, Margie, I am so sorry.
35:16
I forgot to add the pole points in.
35:18
You've clinched the championship by one point.
35:21
And you don't have to go to the next race.
35:22
So Robbie and I, both of us, set the pole at Vancouver for Valvoline.
35:27
So that's pretty cool.
35:28
And so at the banquet, I dedicated the championship to Paul in tears, and
35:33
I couldn't have done it without him.
35:34
For those keeping track at home, that's yet another first for you, Margie.
35:38
You're the first woman in North America to win a professional
35:41
road racing championship.
35:42
Yes, and you know how I found out about that?
35:45
I, I was just so glad that, you know, I did well.
35:47
I get a call from The Meister, Chris Economackie, and he says, Margie,
35:52
he says, I want to congratulate you.
35:54
Do you realize you just became the first woman in North America to win a
35:58
professional road racing championship?
36:00
What comes all around here is going from my little 914 slaloms, autocrosses.
36:07
Time trials, SCCA, the first American woman, I had no
36:11
plans to be a race car driver.
36:13
I was a school teacher, but I've enjoyed the challenge of it.
36:17
And I've taken on not only the challenge of the driving, but of the educational
36:21
process of understanding how the car works, the physics of the car, lift
36:25
throttle, oversteer, kicking the tail out, dragging the left foot brake and stuff.
36:30
That all comes with experience.
36:31
I didn't expect as a PE teacher and coach that would happen.
36:36
But you know what?
36:36
When I graduated from college in 1972 is when they passed Roe versus Wade.
36:43
And I did not have sports that I could compete in whenever I
36:46
was in high school or college.
36:48
Now I had a sport I could compete in and I did quite well in it.
36:52
All I know is that whenever I was in sixth grade, I did the softball
36:55
throw and I had the city record.
36:57
That's the only thing.
36:58
That was it.
36:59
But it's such an honor.
37:00
It's unbelievable.
37:01
And it wouldn't have happened without.
37:03
Paul and I owe everything I've had happen for me and him.
37:07
So many of the legends that come on here, we like to ask them about
37:11
challenging parts of Lamont's and the conditions and things like that.
37:14
But the bigger takeaway generally is that Lamont changed them.
37:19
as a driver, mostly for the better.
37:21
They thought they knew until they got to Lamar and Lamar tends to, let's
37:25
say, break the Mustang to use that pun.
37:28
Right.
37:28
What do you think Lamar taught you?
37:30
How did it change you as a driver?
37:31
Ultimately it brought you to that championship in the ACRL, but
37:34
what did you take away from Lamar?
37:36
You realize stuff happens no matter how prepared you can be.
37:39
There's things that are out of your control, but I think what I
37:42
took away from it was goal setting.
37:45
In other words, you don't have to be unrealistic and think that you
37:48
couldn't win Le Mans, but it's not an easy task, and it takes a way to
37:52
get there in certain combinations of car, driver, crew, but I would say I
37:57
learned major respect for a long race.
38:02
I learned the appreciation of the history of the race and
38:05
the history of the drivers.
38:06
You know, when I ran those races over in Europe, I was just amazed at seeing
38:10
the other cars and meeting other drivers and most of whom we didn't speak the
38:14
same language, but it was thrilling.
38:17
It was really thrilling.
38:18
I did hopscotch, leap a little head on some stuff, but sometimes You know, when
38:22
the opportunity comes, you need to take it, but sometimes you don't take it.
38:26
I didn't take it in the, in the 935, but I did take it at both Le Mans.
38:31
And I'm still glad I did because there's a whole lot of other people that had the
38:34
same thing happen, and they eventually won it or are still looking for that win.
38:39
I won't reach that.
38:40
I'm a little too old now.
38:43
So as we wrap up here in our final segment, I'm actually going to incorporate
38:46
one of the questions from our crowd into this next idea that we have here.
38:51
So you've returned to Le Mans many times after your 1984 and 1985 attempts,
38:57
and I met you there at the 100th in 2023 as we were celebrating that.
39:01
You've seen a lot of change in the last 40 years.
39:04
Oh my God.
39:04
There's a lot of good that has come.
39:06
To Lamont and May Lee starts out by saying, thank you for being a
39:10
trailblazer, but she wants to know, how do we increase the number of females
39:14
and such a male dominated field?
39:16
And it reminds me of a story you were telling me about meeting the iron dames.
39:20
So let's talk about.
39:22
Modern Lamar and what this all means and how you kind of open the doors for a
39:26
future generation of drivers When I went to Lamar and David took me up to meet the
39:31
Iron Doms I was just going nuts because I I was so excited about him I haven't
39:36
gotten to follow and be a supporter of women through this whole time because I've
39:40
you know been dealing with you know, my business and Paul and so I didn't get to
39:45
really follow it through but I'd heard about them and it was just great to be
39:50
able to meet them, but was so bizarre.
39:51
And I was so surprised at this.
39:53
I walked over and I had a picture of the car that I drove at Le Mans,
39:56
so I could give them the picture.
39:57
So I could say, this is what it is now.
39:59
This is what it was then.
40:01
David was introducing me.
40:02
The one says, Oh my God, it's you.
40:04
And I'm like, how do you know me?
40:06
She said, you're the first woman from the United States who drove Le Mans.
40:09
Well, maybe David must have told him that or whatever, but either way, I was
40:12
so shocked because I was receiving such a warm reception from them when it was
40:18
them that I felt, you know, hey, you guys are the show here now and best of luck.
40:22
Let's pass the time and keep passing it so that we can.
40:26
See a woman, hopefully win Le Mans.
40:28
I really was blown away when I got to meet Christine Beckers from Belgium.
40:33
She had driven Le Mans four times in the seventies and she and I hit it off.
40:38
And then the other thing, while I was there at the, uh, dinner at the end
40:41
of the Malzahn Strait for the Club de Pelote members, I spent a long
40:44
time talking with Charlotte Vernet.
40:47
She's, I think, driven Le Mans the most times.
40:49
And they've got quite a stable of women drivers from Europe, but we've
40:54
only had four women from the United States drive the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
40:59
We need to see that change.
41:01
If that's the ultimate star in the sky, let's start going for it.
41:05
We have women who do.
41:07
You were also featured in a film in the last couple of years that was done
41:10
by Porsche, alongside of Sabre Cook.
41:13
So what was that all about?
41:14
Is that also trying to help promote women in racing and get more eyes on Le Mans?
41:18
Yeah, well, actually, whenever I was in Australia last year, I got an email and
41:23
it was from the ad agency for Porsche.
41:26
And they said, we're doing this video and we want you.
41:30
To be in it and it's based around women's achievement month, the month of March,
41:35
which is sort of what we're doing with some of this and that's why they did it.
41:38
And I'm sitting here thinking, well, you know, it's really honored.
41:40
Obviously I've dedicated a lot of my life with Porsche.
41:43
I've been a member for over 50 years.
41:45
I'm a member in West Australia as well.
41:47
So they called and I have to admit, I had to get over jet lag from.
41:51
Australia.
41:52
They put it off by a day because, you know, I needed to, I needed
41:55
to at least get myself some sleep.
41:57
And I met Sabra.
41:58
What an amazing gal. And so they were doing it to show the legacy of me as a
42:04
legend and her as the upcoming person.
42:07
And what was amazing about it is whenever we took that video, she's
42:11
the same age I was whenever I started racing professionally, 28.
42:16
And 1994 is when I won my championship, and then it was a
42:19
situation where she was now competing.
42:22
And so the new blood, so I was the grandma, you might say, which it's
42:26
hard to say this, but I could be her grandmother, but we hit it off.
42:31
And I was just so impressed with her and her being mechanical engineer and stuff.
42:36
So it was nice that Portia did that.
42:38
I was really flattered because like I said, as a school teacher,
42:41
I didn't expect to do all this.
42:45
Margie, if you could go back to Lamont today, behind the wheel of a race car,
42:48
drive any of the cars from the 2023 season, the 2024 season, what would it be?
42:53
Would it be the 963?
42:55
Or is there something else that gets you excited?
42:57
No, I sort of liked the Porsche.
42:58
I mean, it's.
42:59
I've been a real follower and all my sports cars have been Porsches.
43:04
And I just, I just think that, um, it would be such a different car.
43:07
I mean, if you thought that cars were probably challenging before, I imagine
43:11
with these ground effects are more challenging, but there's also so much
43:15
more technical stuff in it that's keeping you from making mistakes with the car.
43:19
So the cars are kind of helping drive them.
43:22
So I have to admit, I love jumping in my 914 6.
43:26
And just driving it, and just a stick shift, no air conditioning.
43:30
But boy, did I come a long way from there, didn't I?
43:32
Wish I could have gone further, but I guess winning a championship isn't bad.
43:36
Nothing wrong with that.
43:37
So on that note, I'm gonna pass the baton to David Lowe for some final thoughts as
43:42
we wrap out this evening with a legend.
43:44
Margie.
43:45
On behalf of all the ACO USA members and also the ACO, thank you so much for giving
43:50
your time and sharing your exciting, thrilling adventures with us this evening.
43:55
Thank you.
43:55
Well, you're welcome, and I also want to thank you at the bottom of my
43:58
heart for giving me the opportunity to go to Le Mans in 2023, help
44:02
introduce me and take me around.
44:04
That was great, and hopefully I'll be able to get back again.
44:07
I had hoped to go last year because it was the anniversary when I drove, but the ACO
44:12
USA is a great group, ACO is great, and it's an honor to be part of your group.
44:17
Thank you again, Margie.
44:18
Thank you so much.
44:19
And on behalf of everyone here and those listening at home, thank you, Margie,
44:24
for sharing your stories with us.
44:26
Margie Smith Haas made history as the first American woman to race
44:30
at the legendary 24 Hours of Le Mans, paving the way for future
44:33
generations of women in motorsports.
44:35
Her groundbreaking achievement was more than just a personal milestone.
44:39
It was a defining moment that challenged norms and highlighted the importance of
44:43
diversity and inclusion in our sport.
44:45
Competing on the world's most demanding endurance racing stage twice, Margie
44:49
demonstrated exceptional skill, determination, and resilience, proving
44:53
that talent knows no boundaries.
44:55
And her legacy continues to inspire drivers worldwide, cementing
44:59
her place as a true pioneer in the storied history of Le Mans.
45:03
And we hope you enjoyed this presentation and look forward to more evening with
45:07
the legend throughout the season.
45:08
And with that, Margie, I can't thank you enough for coming on and
45:11
dialing in from West Australia early in the morning to talk to us and
45:15
share your stories about Lamaze.
45:16
So we look forward to seeing you again later this season
45:19
and many seasons to come.
45:21
And so thank you for everything you've done.
45:23
And thank you.
45:23
You've been a wonderful person doing the interview and you've guided
45:27
me along the way been very patient and it's an honor to be part of
45:30
the group and be on your program.
45:43
This episode has been brought to you by the Automobile Club
45:46
of the West and the ACO USA.
45:48
From the awe inspiring speed demons that have graced the track to the courageous
45:52
drivers who have pushed the limits of endurance, the 24 Hours of Le Mans is
45:56
an automotive spectacle like no other.
45:58
For over a century, the 24 Hours of Le Mans has urged manufacturers to
46:01
innovate for the benefit of future motorists, and it's a celebration of
46:05
the relentless pursuit of speed and excellence in the world of motorsports.
46:09
To learn more about or to become a member of the ACO USA, look no further than www.
46:14
lemans.
46:15
org, click on English in the upper right corner, and then click on the
46:20
ACO Members tab for club offers.
46:22
Once you've become a member, you can follow all the action on the
46:25
Facebook group ACO USA Members Club and become part of the legend with
46:30
future Evening with the Legend meetups.
46:42
This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part
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of our motoring podcast network.
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For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational
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Please note that the content, opinions, and materials presented and expressed in
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47:14
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47:16
If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators
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