Latest / Sermons on the Side / 60 | Reaching a Generation with Special Guest: Jacques Van Bommel

Transcript

60 | Reaching a Generation with Special Guest: Jacques Van Bommel · Sermons on the Side

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Sermons on the Side.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Brad.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Richard.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And life can move pretty fast.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we're here to slow down, dig deep, and find the story hidden in everyday moments.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: With years spent in ministry, friendship, and navigating real life together, we're all about blending humor, honesty, and faith into conversations that meet you right where you are.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you're brand new or you're back for more, we are so glad you are here.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: So relaxed, listen in, and let's discover meaning together.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: In the ordinary, the messy, and everything in between.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Sermons on the side, finding meaning in the everyday.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_04: We also know the chief magistrate of the town of the town, and I spoke to her, and she said that they will sentence people to us if there's petty crimes or if they have maybe family, uh like um, maybe there's violence in family or things like that, they'll sentence them into us, and then they can either go to jail or they can come to the center, and um, so that gives us a bit of leverage.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_04: And then if they if their families want to come to see them, they have to come to church on a Sunday.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that so that immediately spoke with her, by the way.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hold the pen bumble.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Episode 60.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: What wait, how long?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: What did you just believe?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Episode 60.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're getting close to the episode that most accurately corresponds to your age.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, hold on, one more.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: We see the next one.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: We passed mine last summer, dog.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's been months for me.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I'm just kidding.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, we have such an incredible conversation ahead for this episode 60.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we can't wait.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just gonna dive right in.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: As you saw when you clicked on the episode, we have an incredible conversation with our now dear friend, Jacques Van Bummel.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're so good at that.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh here's here's some fun facts, and then we'll tell you kind of how this all came about.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Jacques is the founder and the CEO of a ministry called Reaching a Generation.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he and his wife Lizzie started this ministry about 17 years ago in South Africa with the purpose of reaching young people.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Reaching young people and to help them, to support them, and to care not only for them physically, but ultimately to care about them spiritually.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: The ministry has since expanded it well beyond South Africa into Zambia and to other neighboring countries.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he holds a doctorate and missional leadership from Trinity Bible College.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he and his children and his wife love people.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: They love ministry, they love the Lord.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Outside of ministry, he is a licensed pilot.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's an artist who enjoys painting.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is like the most interesting man in the world.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited that we had the opportunity, Richard, to have this conversation several weeks ago.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about how this all came about.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Jacques works very closely with the church that I attend here in Columbus, uh, Solid Rock.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: And uh our church partners with him to assist and help and support his ministry, uh, reaching a generation.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: And he was in town, he was in country and was here in Columbus, and you know, spending some time with our church leaders, and some of our people from our church are going down there this summer uh to South Africa on a missions trip.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Jacques was so gracious to give us some time, as you said, several weeks ago, to sit with us for this interview.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was leading up to the weekend, and Richard called and he said, Hey man, look, what are you doing Sunday afternoon?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, What do you mean?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: After church?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Said, Yeah, you want to ride up to the studio and interview this guy from South Africa?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you would, I thought it was another missed phone text, like speak to text.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what is going on?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure enough, we've had honestly one of the best conversations we've had today.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're not delaying any longer.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Friends, enjoy this incredible conversation with our friend Jacques.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Jacques von Bommel, and I said it wrong, it's fen bummel.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun bomb.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: We've spent so much time prepping for that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's fun bummel.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Come on now.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Whoa.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Let me let's get a South African pronunciation.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: All right, so let me tell you guys, it's Jacques van Bommel.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, dude.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: You are so dude, I am so excited about this episode because of that accent right there.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just off the rip.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: But Jacques, we are so grateful that you would sit with us for a few minutes and a little bit of time here today, and and so that our listeners can hear your story and hear about all the amazing things God is doing.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd like to just jump right in again.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: Jacques is here with us all the way from South Africa, and I'm not gonna try to pronounce the city.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: Please do, please try.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, okay.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: Jacques, uh, we need you.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: So the the town that we're from is Mokopani.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_04: It's about two hours north of Johannesburg.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: So oftentimes people would fly into the country through the our Tumbo Airport, which is in Johannesburg.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: That's our main airport.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then uh once you've landed, two hours drive, two hours 15 minutes, and we're actually where we live.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, there you go.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: And tell us a little bit about your family.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I have one wife, which is important to mention in Africa.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I thought, okay.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: I thought that was a bit.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it was a joke.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be cultured over here, Richard.
• 6:00
  unknown: Get it together.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, one wife.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: We do we do two.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's tongue in cheek.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_04: One wife.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's tongue in cheek.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's one wife, and uh, I have two children.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we have a uh 25-year-old, her name is Nicole, and she is part of the ministry.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: She works for us.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she works in a development department, so he also is working on writing our story and uh doing a lot of the the um social media and things like that for our donors.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_04: And then um I have a son, he is at Oral Roberts University, will be graduating in May.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: Tulsa, Oklahoma.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: And he's studying computer engineering, and uh then he's gonna probably be in the US for a while until he gets his engineering license here.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: I see.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's wonderful.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and my wife's name is Lizzie, my son's name is Jacques.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, so that would that be junior or maybe the third, or you a junior?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: I can't.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: They kind of call him junior, but he doesn't like that, so we'll just call him Jacques.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, there you go.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: His middle name is Ferdinand.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: Say that?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: Ferdinand.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: There we go.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: Hey.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen the pattern here.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Brad is the one.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Feeling confident right now.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Listen, hey, I want to uh we got so much cool stuff that we're gonna hear from Jock, but being that you're from South Africa, we I was with a number of people from our church, our local church here in Columbus, Solid Rock Church.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: And uh you were talking with us just a few nights ago, and we were you were talking with us about rugby.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: All right, and I'm gonna bring up I want to I want you to tell us how good is the South African rugby team.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: All right, so it's actually the best.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: Boom.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just I I mean, you can go on the rugby world cup rankings.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: There's uh there's a international rugby world uh rankings, and South Africa is like three points ahead of the next um team, and every time that you would lose or or win a game, you get a fraction of a point or maybe a point that you can go up or down.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: So South Africa is really the best team in the world right now.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: We're also the World Cup winners.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um we're the only team, I think, in the world that has won the World Cup four times.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_04: Boom.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um so rugby is a is a big deal in our country.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, would you say it's the biggest sport in South Africa?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: No, soccer is.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Still soccer.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: But when when we grew up though, um I was raised during the apartheid years.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: I see.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_04: Which is really um during those years, uh, the white schools, which was separated, would play rugby and the black schools would play soccer.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I see.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: So when we grew up, we just had, I mean, every every person who was um in uh if you were in school, you play rugby.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't play rugby, you're seen as somebody who is yeah, well, let me let me not not not say what they said when I was growing up, but understood.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: Well, one that's you were not a real man.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, got it, got it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, now it just so happens our podcast has a a handful, literal handful of listeners from New Zealand.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and so I just thought we'd just offend them right off the bat in this interview.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because they are fans of, and I'm gonna say about the all blacks.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what they call the rugby?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's correct.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we uh we offend equally, so I agree with you.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, right.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um so the the All Blacks were used to be really one of the top teams.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, they're still a top team in the world, but but they are at this point in time, they just lodged their coach as well.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: Ah, I didn't know they actually fired him, and it's just before the World Cup again.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: So we'll see what happens.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: But uh the All Blacks are a formidable team, they really are a strong team.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I have heard that they say in New Zealand that if you play rugby, it's it's almost like a religion there.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, so um they lost their religion.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we won.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, listen, uh, shout out to our Kiwis, and we care.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: We love you.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: We do, we love you.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: But we're giving a nod to South Africa today.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: So share the the microwaves, microphone waves with uh with them.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: I've not met you, but sincere condolences to you guys.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, wow, shots fired from across the ocean ahead of the World Cup.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, speaking of the fact that you've only been, at least in Columbus, for the past few days, thank you so much for sitting down and having this conversation with us.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Super excited.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Talking about growing up, right, you were just mentioning you.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about your faith journey?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Were you born into a Christian family?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find God in elementary school or whatever the equivalent of that is in South Africa?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about how the Lord pursued your heart.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_04: So growing up uh in South Africa, um everyone kind of claimed to be in some form of Christianity.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you were not, uh, the national religion um was Christianity, and um the national church, kind of accepted by the government, was really one of the reformed churches.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: So if you were part of a Pentecostal church like Solid Rock, you would be seen as part of a sect in the times that we grew up.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: And um so not having a relationship with Jesus, but rather being part of a religion was really strong within our country.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: And so when I grew up, uh, we didn't really go to church.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_04: I had a desire to, so I started going to the Dutch Reform Church in our area with my family, and then um, but still didn't know the Lord.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we would attend now and again, and then when I got to high school, a teacher in school one day at a Christian club, and um, I was invited when I went there, and on that day I realized that I was lost, I had no relationship with Jesus, and um, so I decided that day to give my heart to the Lord.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_04: I went when when the the session finished, he didn't do an ultra call, but I walked up and I spoke to him, his name was Mr.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: Kortz, and I said to him, I really um I need prayer, can he help me?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just weeping because I I felt I I realized how lost I was without Jesus.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: And um, so when I was 13, I gave my heart to Jesus in school, and my my wife, who um she's always been 25 years old, she still is.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_04: Come on, had a baby, had a baby, had a baby, I see and um she has um given her heart to the Lord when she was 14 when it when somebody uh brought her to the Lord, and there's some statistics that's really relevant about this because they say that about 80% of people that would commit their lives to the Lord would do it before the age of 14.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: And uh when you think about the amount of resources we put into children and youth outreach and ministry, um, and you look at that result.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: Imagine if we were really serious about reaching the next generation, what that would look like in our in our world, because they're open to the gospel.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_04: And so uh our story is certainly that story.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, that's incredible.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that your coming to faith journey is really kind of what anchored or or at least was part of that foundation that that launched you into this ministry, their current ministry as it relates to the youth of South Africa?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I'll tell you a story.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um I was in school when when I gave my heart to the Lord, and now I was trying to figure out how to live this life, and not long after the teacher led me to the Lord, I think my dad had a hand in it, but he was I think he was fired, and he was um he actually left the school and and went into the the air force.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and so there were a few other young people that were saved, and and I was one of them, but there wasn't really a discipleship journey I was on.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and in doing that, I kind of learned a little bit about how to lead people to the Lord.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_04: I I figured out a system, and so what I would do is I would have a pen in my hand, and um, if I if I grabbed a pen, I would I would first of all look for the children who were sitting by themselves.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: I was in an all-boys school, about a thousand boys.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_04: And um, so I would find the the ones who would sit by themselves and I would say, Hi, I'm Jacques, and they'll greet me, and then I'll say, Well, you know, I I I got a question for you today.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: Can I ask you something?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: And they'll say yes, and I'll say, Well, if you die today, where's you gonna go?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_04: And they'll be shocked because out of the blue, this question comes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'll and then they'll say, Well, I hope and I think I'm a good person, I do this, I do that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'll say to them, All right, hold this pen, and I'll give them a pen to hold.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Is the pen in your hand?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: He says, Yes.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'll say to him, Well, do you know it's in your hand?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: And they'll say yes.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'll say, What the Bible says in 1 John 5, those who have Christ in their lives will know they have eternal life.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_04: So if you don't know, you're probably going to hell.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_04: So let me pray with you.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: Would you like to ask Jesus into your life?
• 15:17
  unknown: Boom!
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so I forced so many people to receive Jesus.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: I did.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: And one day, one day I got to uh I got to a boy, his name was Shaal.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's the only one's name I can remember, the others I can't.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember he was sitting under a tree waiting um after school, and I asked him, I said to him, Shaal, if you die today, where would you where you where are you gonna go?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, Hell.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, What?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_04: Hell's a terrible place.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna burn and not stop burning, the worms are gonna eat you.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_04: Now I didn't really know where that was all in scripture or if it even was, but I just remembered everybody had told me about this, so now I'm repeating this.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: And he looks at me and he says, Jacques, I don't want to be like you.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: I want to enjoy my life.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: And it shocked me because I thought everybody wants to be like me because I've got Jesus now, and I knew how lost I was, but what I presented was certainly not something that was attractive.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so and so then um I took his pencil case and I scratched out my number on it, and I said, even in the middle of the night, if you want to call me to ask Jesus into your life very dramatically, I said, Call me.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: So then three three years goes by, and um I'm in the final year of the school.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_04: I was the head boy, we have prefects, it's like your student body.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I was the head boy, and so so one of the so sometimes the teachers would come and call me out to help with something, and a teacher came that day and he asked if I could come and help him with something.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm walking out of the classroom, and we're walking across the school terrain on the third story into the teacher's class, and there's a there's an empty classroom with one boy sitting at a table.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: He said, and the teacher, his name was Donnie Smith, he said to me, Jacques, this boy needs help.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: Could you help him?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm sitting next to him, and I said to him, So, how can I help you today?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: And he looks at me and he says, You know, I went to the Christian motorbike rally this weekend and I saw how much fun people had, and what an incredible um life it is to know Jesus.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I want to give my heart to Jesus.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: And that was the same boy that three years before told me he was gonna go to hell.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I always think about that, how intentional God was to come and get me from across the school to come and show me what it looks like when his goodness leads me into repentance.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: Romans 2, verse 4 speaks about that.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: It says that's the goodness of God that leads me into repentance.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: Now, some will get saved because of a fear of hell and whatever else, but how much better is it when we can show people what an incredible God we have, and that love for him or uh or his goodness draws them in.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so that boy gave his heart to the Lord that day, and then his life was so changed that he started asking me all kinds of questions, and I just hardly had all the answers, and I had to try and make up some of the stuff and try and figure out whatever because he had a hunger, and all the other kids I never saw after I forced them into the kingdom.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: And so the difference between somebody who um makes a choice for Christ because of his goodness and is drawn by the Lord versus somebody who you try and force into the kingdom is just incredible.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: So I I look I often look at these big evangelistic um guys who go out on the streets and try and I mean I remember one time I saw this um this podcast or something they did with Elon Musk, and it was Christian guys, and they were talking to him about everything, and at the end, all they wanted him to do is to say the salvation prayer.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: That was the goal.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: And so they said, okay, just repeat after us.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: If you could just say this, and okay, just say that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, hey, Elon gave his heart to the Lord, he's this.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_04: And and and I think we manufacture what God really has to do in the heart.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: And and we can plant and we can water, but God gives the growth.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: If he doesn't change a heart, who can how can we change a heart?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: So I've learned I I really have a heart for evangelism, but I've also realized that it's not my job to change the heart.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta just be obedient and in the moment when I speak and share and let the Lord and and um use it.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_04: But really, he has to draw people.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, can you tell us a little bit about uh the the organization, the ministry reaching a generation?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: How how at first how did that get birthed in your heart?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: So after um school, I went to Bible school, felt called, and um I was gonna go to university to study, and then I just felt a call, and so I ended up going to Rayma Bible College in Johannesburg.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: And then um did my national service.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: We had to still go to the army in those days.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: All the white boys had to do that.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's not currently still a thing.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_04: No, I was the second last intake of our generation, and you would give a year.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um they pay you nothing, but but you give a year, and that was part of what everybody did.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: And so um after the army, I I joined a church four years, I was a youth pastor.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: And then um for six years about we were involved in an organization following the youth pastor.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: We went to uh to join a missions organization that helped train people in kids' ministry.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: And the organization was called Jackson's Rich Children's Ministry Training Center.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: It was started by um missionaries Ed and Sonia Corbin, and they were assemblies of God missionaries in South Africa at the time.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: And and in our at our time, there wasn't really much of a children's ministry in our day.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: It was almost like your 50s or 60s in the church.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_04: And so they started really breaking ground.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_04: We attended their workshops and finally they invited us to be part of their team.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_04: So um, after almost six years, I'm the assistant director of this organization.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we've built a beautiful campsite.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: We're doing camps for kids and we're training people in ministry.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: We do camps for abused and neglected children with royal family kids camps in South Africa.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: Lots of different things have developed.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_04: And in the middle of all of this, I looked at our ministry and I realized that we're training people who are in church, reaching kids who are in church.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: And when I when I looked at the training we did, it was fun and it was wonderful to be able to teach people how to disciple.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_04: But I realized in our country, less than five percent of the kids in many of the communities will be in a church on a Sunday.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: If you look at um just if you want to change a country, how do you change a country?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's through the kids.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that's why the statistic is so important if you can reach them young.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so I realized that there's no nothing national that we knew that happened where we would help churches go into our schools and our community to reach them.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: And at the time, there was a real battle for our schools.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the Minister of Education was a was a Muslim and he announced no more religion in schools.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: And um and so at the time, I remember um before that, the schools were very open.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: The government started bringing in things like witch doctors, and they exposed a lot of the they exposed a lot of the teachers, as well as the their uh regional staff that they have, they they the district staff they would expose to this so that they would be more inclusive.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: And because of this is now the new South Africa, they wanted all religions um to be part of this.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: And at the time, I felt um the Lord just speak to me about the fact that we're not taking advantage of our schools and the opportunities we have.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so I started praying about it and asking him, give me a plan for our nation.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: And and he gave me an idea of starting up in cities where we would go and spend two or three months in a city, um, in and out, but really help mobilize churches, build a bridge into the schools, and then literally with all the volunteers we can muster in that area, train them, equip them, give them the resource, and literally reach every child we can in every school in that community with the gospel.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: And if we can do that in a city, then we do a follow-up where we do a crusade and we draw them then to the churches, and we help the churches to become more friendly towards kids, kids and youth ministry.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: And so that was the idea.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: We called it citywide outreaches.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: And then the messaging was around HIV and age prevention because at the time South Africa was going through a major HIV age pandemic.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: So many, many orphans, and we had lots of infection happening in the nation and um a lot of behavioral issues.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and and part of that is the past, uh, apartheid, but everything else that kind of came to this place where where we really were were struggling as a country.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so we we worked on a I worked on a plan, and I walked into a meeting with Ed and Sonia Corbin to tell them about what I felt we should do next.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because we were doing all these trainings and camps and stuff, but I felt there was more.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I walked into a meeting where they invited me to plan the next five years with them for the ministry.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I didn't realize the meeting was really about succession of Jackson's Reach.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I was 30 years old, and as I walked into this, um, they asked me one question.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_04: They said, Jock, if you could do anything, what would you do with your life?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I I said, I would do exactly what we do now, plus, and I took out a 70-page business plan.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome! In my backpack.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Happen to have this.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: And part of that was I would sell the children's campsite we had, it was not sustainable.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: I would start something we call now businesses mission.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_04: I would try and make things more sustainable, but at the same time, um work on these outreaches that we would do, and then all the trainings.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: And so after I presented the plan, um they they were a little shocked, and they said to me, Um, we have one more question.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: They said, What would you say if we told you God didn't call us to do it?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was I was just dumbfounded.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_04: I was quiet because I thought everybody was called to do what I was called to do, because this is what's going to change our country, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so I said nothing for about 10 minutes, and then they closed the meeting and they said, Let's get back a couple of days later.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I went home.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: My son was two weeks old, my daughter was two years old, and Lizzie.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I said to Lizzie, I said, Lizzie, the only thing I think we can do with integrity here is to resign.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_04: Because if we know God's called us to do this, then how can we ask somebody else to pay the price for it?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so the next day when we met, I walked in and I gave our resignation.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: And they were they didn't accept it, they were very, very upset, um, felt we missed the Lord.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it was really hard.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: I took the weekend and then on Monday I gave them a written resignation, which they then finally accepted.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: And then I got some really good advice from a friend.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: He said, do everything you do to finish well and don't say anything negative, which I did.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: And two months later, reaching a generation, then um uh we finished at at Jackson's Reach and we got started.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: So now we don't have a house, we don't have an income, we don't have a car.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: Our our income at the time in today's dollar rate was roughly maybe about$350 a month.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: And um, so we had it saved up about$600 that's in the bank.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: And um, that was what we had.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_04: And so we felt, okay, God said, go do this now.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so uh a few miracles started happening right after we resigned.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: A laptop came in the mail from a guy in the States.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_04: And for a laptop to be mailed through our normal postal services to first of all arrive is a mer is a miracle.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_04: And then the second thing is there was no taxes, nothing around it, and it arrived the day after I resigned.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so I called the guy or I contacted John MacMaines and I said, John, I I received this for who is this?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_04: And he says, Jacques, this is for your ministry.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_04: I said, I don't have a ministry.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I can put it in Jackson's reach, but but I don't have a ministry.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: He says, then it's for you personally.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: So when he said that, it was almost like the Lord said, Um, I'll pay for what I've called you to do.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: So we took the business plan, we put it onto this laptop, and um, and then seven days later, a church called us and they said they have a house that they'd like to give us for a year in that local town where we could actually just get started.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so it was a little townhouse.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: Lizzie could walk to the mall, it wasn't too far, and um and I used a garage to start in.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then um uh and then we didn't have a car yet.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: So finally uh there was a car that a missionary wanted to sell, and just a week or so before I uh finished at Jackson's Reach, they gave me the car and said I could start fixing it a little so that we can put it through Roadworthy.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: And it was a it was roughly um, it would cost us probably about a thousand five hundred bucks now, but at the time it was a bit more because the exchange rate was different.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_04: But I I had like$300, and I tried to borrow the rest of the money, nobody would loan us any money.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_04: It was just like everybody, I didn't have a job.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_04: And people say, I asked them where are you gonna get the money?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'll say, Well, I'll show them business plan.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_04: Jesus told me to do this, and this is what we're gonna do.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so finally I called the missionary back when I realized I wasn't gonna get the money together, and I I said to him, David, David Betzer is his name.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_04: I said, David, I just can't afford the vehicle.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for the opportunity, but I need to give it back.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: And David said to me, Jacques, just hold on to it for another couple of days.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: Let's see what happens.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: So two hours later, a friend of mine calls and he was with me in school, and uh, he was also one of those radical saved group that we were.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: And he and his wife had prayed and he said, Jacques, the Lord told me to give you the rest of the money.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it was exactly the amount that we needed to finish paying for the car.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: So we then bought the car.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so now we have a vehicle.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_04: And but then when we started the ministry, the Lord told us give everything away and charge for nothing.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm saying to him, that doesn't work.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not part of the business plan.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's inform the Lord.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, uh, at least charge something for the trainings or let the churches, you know, pay for something that we're gonna do if we're gonna do these city campaigns.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: And the Lord said, no, give it all away.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so we um so I struggled with it for a long time.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I said to the Lord, okay, let me um let me go work somewhere and I'll do like a tent maker's ministry where I would work and then pay.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'll be a waiter, I'll do salesman's work, whatever I can find.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_04: And um, the Lord said, No, I want you to focus on what I've told you to do.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember it was November.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_04: Our money was, we didn't have any any money left for the end of the month, and we were gonna need, I had to do something if we're gonna survive.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and um, because even the house that they gave us, we still had to pay for the utilities.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so um, I remember going before the Lord that day and I was just weeping, and I said to him, Lord, I would live under a bridge for you, but I've got two kids and and and and a wife.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I was reading through Psalms, and it it was where the Lord said in so where it says in Psalms that the righteous shall not be forsaken and his children will not beg for bread.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_04: And when I read that, it was like it was just the day that I needed to hear that.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I said that day to the Lord, okay, I will not ask you if I should do anything else with my life.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: This is what I will give my life to.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and so that's really the day that was in November.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_04: I resigned in July.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that's really the day that we put our hand to the plow.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_04: And then we started.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember we we got a uh friend of ours who has a company, and they gave us some money um to about$300 towards the ministry every month.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: And this is our oldest donor.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: From that time on, they've always given us$300 a month.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_04: Oh actually, a bit more now.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and then um the missionary called me towards the end of the year, and he said that they would like to come me to come see their board.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm thinking, this is the one who we bought the car from.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm thinking, oh, what did I do?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: What did I say?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: I was 30 years old, um, so uh you you you you yeah, any case, so it could have gone either way back then, could you and and the missionaries we were with before thought we missed the Lord, and so it was kind of tense in the Christian environment we were in.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so we walk into this meeting, Lizzie and I, and our two kids, and as we walk into the meeting, the first board member, there's five of them, first of them stood up and he looked at me.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_04: It was a doctor, and he said, His name is Dr.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_04: Neil.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_04: He said to me, Jacques, we want you to know that we believe in you.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_04: And he and he gave me a fifth of the amount of the vehicle check back.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_04: And then the second board member came up and they gave us the vehicle money that we paid back into the ministry.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_04: And that was like it could have been a million dollars.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, but it was like for the in such a lonely time where you're so alone, um, people that we were close felt you're missing the Lord, nobody believes in what you do.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: They're all kind of in your so in that moment to have people say that was just enormous.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_04: So then um we took that money and that carried us into the new year, and then from the new year uh we um uh we started working on the first cities, and in August that year we reached our first city, which was Rostenberg.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: But before we got to Rastenberg, now the churches are saying to us that we can we can help them prepare for it, but how do they get access to the schools?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because the minister of education said no more religion in schools.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I heard about this guy, he was a district director for education in the area, and I heard he was a born-again Christian, kind of sidelined pastor a little.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I walked to his office with somebody, or we we drove there with somebody who um is from the same church he's from.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so I asked him to take me there.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sitting in his in his waiting room and no, no appointment, and um, we're wanting to go see him.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I said to his secretary, we would like to see Mr.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_04: Gradwell.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, she said to me, he's really busy.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: I said, I know, and we'll wait.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so she says, Well, he's gonna be long.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_04: I said, No problem, we'll just sit here and wait.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I wasn't gonna go anywhere, yeah.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and so finally, years later, he told me this because he's on our board now.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_04: But years later he told me this.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: He said, She came in his office and said, I don't know who these people are, they won't go away.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, Who are they?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_04: And then they peeped at the door to see see who these people are.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and he said he recognized Joe next to me, Joe Newell.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, Oh, they're from church.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_04: He said to the and then he said to her, Childemai, just have five minutes.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Okay.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_04: So she came back out, she said, Mr.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_04: Gradwell says he's got five minutes.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_04: I said, No problem.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_04: So then we went in, and two hours later, we walked out with a signed letter giving us access to all the schools and that.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that was your first city that oh boy, did the Lord go before you or what?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so the churches would say, We can't go into the schools, it's illegal, it's this, that.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_04: I said, No, it's legal.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_04: Here's the letter.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_04: We can go.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so then I took that letter to the second city and I said, Well, we got access there.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_04: So here's the blueprint.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: So it's legal.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_04: And so we had to work on some more of those proposals.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: But finally, in the ministry, we got access to about legally with agreements to eight of the nine provinces.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so we would go into a city, we would book all the schools, we would do HIV prevention programs through the local churches who did it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_04: We would lead people to the Lord, we would give every child a copy of the gospels with one hope at the time who helped us.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: And um uh so the first year we reached about 179,000 kids in our outreaches.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then the second year it went to about 850,000.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's uh that year I was on the road for about eight months, and um, and then the third year, I think it went up to 1.2 million, and then it just grew.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and finally, in about 16 years of ministry outreaches with that program, we had reached over uh 28 million children in our country.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_04: Dude, yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: Did you all right?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Did everybody catch 28 million?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: 28 million kids over the span of a 17, 16, 16-year period.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just I mean, I'm getting thinking about that November day when all hope seemingly had been lost and disconnected from ministry partners and the loneliness that you talked about.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I just for time and time again in our lives, and in one of the biggest ways that we hope that this podcast benefits others, it's in those ordinary moments or even extraordinary moments where the Lord just swoops in and speaks directly to our heart.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um and you know, there are moments that are um are more important than a thousand others, but you never know when they're there because it takes a thousand normal days for you to reach that one day that actually counts more than a thousand others.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_04: So just to be faithful every day in what he tells you, and then honestly, to be in a place where you risk on behalf of his name.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: You risk.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: Because if he told you to do something and now you're risking and you're saying, okay, Lord, you said, and because you said, if we're gonna fall, then we fall together because you said.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: And and and that risk is something, it's a beautiful place, but it's it's it's like it's really where you learn faith.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, faith is has three steps.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_04: The first one is you gotta know God spoke.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: Because we sometimes get to a place where when God tells us to do something, that we'll say, Well, you know, the Minister of Education said no.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe the door is closed, maybe God will open a window somewhere.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_04: But what happens is if we know God spoke, then within that word is all the provision we need.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_04: So that means if there's a door that's closed, it's not circumstances that's his voice, but his voice is what we heard.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_04: So then we kick the door open.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_04: We don't we don't we don't wait for it to open, or if it's closed like that, unless he closed it through circumstances, which he can, but to discern that, and then the second thing is once you've heard from him, you know it's him, um, is to take everything you have and put it on the line because you heard from him.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so that means that whatever's in your pocket, if you have money, resources, time, whatever you can give towards the thing that he's called you to, is to do it.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: And then the last step of faith is when you're almost embarrassed and you've done everything you can and it wasn't enough, and you need him to still act to believe that'll make up the difference.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where the that's the miracle place.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh this is your bare, I mean, this is like Genesis 12 all over again.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Jock, go.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Lord, where?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get back to that.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'll figure that out.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: That first step of faith when you're talking about, you know, just kicking the door down.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, You you've had plenty of practice that you started handing out pins to prime ministers.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hold this pin.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let me beat it over again, sir.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting into the schools, dog.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding, all due respect to the Yeah, yeah, whatever.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, tell us about uh a little bit about Celebration Church.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: You uh you you lead this ministry that has grown exponentially over the years to such broad impact, but tell us also about Celebration Church.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_04: So eventually the ministry got a little bit more complex than the citywide outreaches.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_04: We started getting involved in educators' training.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: We got a grant from the U.S.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: government where they actually paid for us to go into this primary schools and teach abstinence, faithfulness, and character education.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then we also shared the gospel with the with the primary kids about HIV prevention, and we would then train teachers how to do it in their schools, and so the we used um your government's money to train 22,000 public school teachers in our country in four years, which was a phenomenal time.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's and um and we shared the gospel with our teachers.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_04: We had a great agreement with the Department of Education to do it, um, and it was really a powerful time.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then out of that, we started doing leadership development and so on.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: And one day, I believe, or as we were going through this, the Lord really spoke to me and said, um, for the longevity of where we're gonna go, mentorship is really an um, and leadership development is really something we need to focus on.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so um I uh we we we as a board sat in South Africa and as we were looking at, we realized we needed to open a Bible college.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: Now, at the time I I had my diploma in theology, and it wasn't even an accredited South African accredited uh college, it was REMA, and even though it was it was in the US, it wasn't necessarily um accredited in South Africa.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm thinking, okay, how do you start a Bible school?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um and in South Africa you can't have a Bible school unless it's locally accredited because they've made it illegal to use foreign accreditation.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: So if you wanted to run a Bible college with foreign accreditation, you'll get up to five-year jail term or you or or a fine or both.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so um so we realized, okay, we gotta look for accreditation, and then with that, um it's it's gotta be something that's really done well.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: So by this time, we had already purchased uh um uh we had a uh two and a half thousand acre game farm that we had purchased as a ministry that we used as our base.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a lodge there and different things that we use, and we and the ministry owns it, so the income from it helps to support the work.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: So from this ministry base, we're now starting this Bible school.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: And in the same year as we're launching the Bible school, we felt the Lord speak to us before and said we needed to put a church down in a community that has all of the strategies that we've done at reaching a generation over the last 18 years.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_04: We needed to find an expression for that within the local community and build a model so that when we teach from the Bible school, we can actually let kids see the model on the ground and see the difference it's making.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so we planted Celebration Church four years ago.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_04: September would be four years ago, we we launched.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_04: And um and then we launched the Bible school with it.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_04: That now is we're gonna become a Christian university.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's our next step to move that into a Christian university.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: And accreditation is a part.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_04: So we have vocational training accreditation right now in the country, but we're gonna go to now the degrees and post you know, um post degree studies and so on.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so um, in the middle of this, I think.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Started studying as well, so I have my PhD now.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but but it was really because I realized we needed that to be able to move into the direction what we're gonna do with the university, and so um in in launching Celebration Church, we wanted it to be a church that was gonna have a hand in all the schools, the community, and so this is what Celebration Church looks like today.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we have our services on Sundays, we have a youth meeting, but we're also um we built a center in town called the Family Care Center, and in the center we help with um prenatal, we've got the scans that we do for teenage pregnancy and all of this, and even for ladies who are pregnant in in town.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we also have a counseling center.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: We we also have all the offices for the social workers who deal with um orphans and and and vulnerable children.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: So any child that goes through the courts actually goes through that office there.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then we also have amazing.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_04: We also have a um a feeding area as well.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: So we built this building, and Joyce Meyer actually gave us the money to do it.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_04: And um just throwing out names at this point.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and that building now is like this phenomenal family center in our town that's helping, and we've opened it to other churches that can be part if they want to, and so on.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: But that's one of the expressions we have.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: And then we're involved in 10 schools in our our immediate area of the church.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_04: We disciple roughly about 3,000 kids a day or a week through the programs we do there.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we're also involved in a leadership program that we've got where we actually do major leadership development with our high school kids.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_04: We start with 10 in every high school from the age of 13, and then we take them through until they're 17 in a program where they then start transforming their own community.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's called the International Leadership Academy.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_04: We have an archery program that runs in our town, the disciples kids in archery, and we're very invested in um, I'd say, where we can find um uh as low as we can go on the age group to be able to reach kids.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_04: We want to be able to do that because that's where your most fruit are in.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so the church um was contacted by the mines because we have the largest platinum mine in the world just outside of our town.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so the mines contacted us and asked us if they would give us a house, what would we do with it after we built the family center?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I said to them, well, we need a place of safety.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so they said, Well, we'll give you a house.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: And we said, okay, we'll put a couple there, we'll give them, we'll start a business for um gardening services.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_04: And as the husband runs the business, the wife can be full-time taking care of this house of safety for the kids, and then it's self-sustainable.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so the mines can then offer us some of their properties as part of the income so that we don't have a donor-dependent model.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so we're in the process of putting that in place.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then while we were doing this, last year, September, we launched the family center, and then we met uh a ministry called Hope Center Ministries, they're from the States, and they do recovery centers.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: But they have a recovery center that they do that has a vocational model to it.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: So what happens is the people that come in have to go and work with companies that are part of the local church, but that they have uh opportunities for labor, and then the companies pay the center for their labor.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_04: So the program is free to the student or the people who come, and then at the end of the day, the last two months of the 12-month program, they then get the money that they have earned and it helps them to get started, as they then have a job when they leave the recovery center.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: So this is unbelievable.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_04: So we're we're launching that in May.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Out of that same family center.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, from that now we've got a new place that we're launching this center.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's actually gonna be at the farm, and uh we're launching the men's center in May, and we're hoping before the end of the year that we can get a women's center going as well.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then we're hoping that that would go to other parts of our country because uh we don't have um a lot of recovery centers within South Africa, at least ones that have fruit and that are biblically based.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: So the powerful thing is we we also know the chief magistrate of the town of the town, and I spoke to her, and she said that they will sentence people to us if there's petty crimes or if they have maybe family, uh like um maybe there's violence in family or things like that, they'll sentence them into us, and then they can either go to jail or they can come to the center, and um, so that gives us a bit of leverage.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then if they're if their families want to come see them, they have to come to church on a Sunday.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: So that so that immediately hold this pin.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the name of this podcast episode, by the way.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hold the pin with Jock Fun Bumble.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then um, so then you can really start impacting the environment that they'll go back into because now their family gets exposed to the church.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's the kid.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's every single thing that you're saying.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: My jaw is on the floor.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is remarkable.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm so humbled to be sitting at the same table and to hear of just God's goodness and his faithfulness and his plan.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I as you're talking about all the incredible things that are happening right now, I think about that teacher that shared the gospel with that 13-year-old kid where the lights turned off, the religion light went off, and the relationship light went on with Jesus Christ.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: And how there, I mean, it's just incredible.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: Jacques, how for our listeners who might want to uh find out more about what's going on through Reaching a Generation Celebration Church, what are some ways.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: What are some ways they could uh look into that, maybe follow you a bit, uh maybe even try to support and help?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: Where could they find you?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: So they can find me on Facebook, um Jacques van Bummel.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um easier said than spelled.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we we're gonna have we will have just act via podcasts uh if they're trying to spell that off of Richard's pronunciation.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Heaven help us.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_04: And then on my page, I've got the website of reaching ageneration.org.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then uh we also have the lodge and everything else, and um, there's a lot more uh to the ministry than just that, but we would love to connect.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I believe in missions, that's a very big part of what we believe in.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, we'd love to partner with churches and missions and outreach, and and we're starting to do more work in the US now, so we're hoping that there's a way for us to really get into the schools more, and we're working on some models, but uh we'd love to connect.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wonderful.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Jacques, the last thing we do, and this was something that we never give any of our any of you guests advanced notice about.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: So this is this is a surprise right here.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: We call it the uh it it's kind of a little segment of rapid-fire questions that I ask you to answer, and it's really obnoxious that we're making you do this.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so we apologize in advance.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: We actually call it no huddle because that's a reference to American football that sometimes they have to make a decision about what play to run just on the fly.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_04: This is that sport where you use all these helmets and all of those things, right?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_04: Not like rugby.
• 51:47
  unknown: That's right.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: Or as a rugby with helmets on.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: A comedian in America says football, a game that you play by throwing a ball with your hands.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um so here are the questions, okay?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Jacques, what is the worst job you ever had to work?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: The the worst job you ever had.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's the job that um that was very repetitious.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_04: I was in um high school and we had to uh we were making a little bit of extra money.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_04: So I was working in a factory.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um I was in technical high school and we were doing, we're grinding these little plates, and um, and it was just the same old, same old um, it's not me.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um we believe you based on these stories.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that's mind-numbing, tedious stuff.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_04: I finished the job in half the day, and then I told them I was done, and they wouldn't believe me, and then they got and see we were done, but I just that was yeah, I wasn't gonna do that.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, the next question uh and amen.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: And the world and the kingdom of God is is uh the better for it, that that's not what you end up doing as a career.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, next question is a Bible character related question, and the only rule about your answer is that you can't answer with Jesus.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, it's the only situation in life where Jesus is not the answer, okay?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: So is there a Bible character that you would call your favorite or that resonates the most with you?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_04: I kind of like um a lot of people say Peter because of the way that he just speaks and there's no filter.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and and in in so many ways, I think sometimes that happens when you just get up and you do things, and sometimes you think about it afterwards.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: I would identify with that a bit.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um but um I would say um even um, yeah, I would say probably Peter.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, so good, so good.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so Jacques the world needs to know cat person or dog person?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: Dog.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, there you go.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: We're on a streak here with a lot of dog people, a lot of Christians.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, is there a current like currently in your life a Bible verse that is speaking to you the most, right?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, uh I've been meditating on this for a while.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, 1 Peter 4.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think it's 1 Peter 4 that says that the way that you are free from sin is when you've suffered for Jesus.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so I've thought I've been, you know, young people young people often would ask the question, how do I stop this?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: Or I'm really struggling with this, and every week they'll come and they'll repent for the things that they've done, or when somebody is really stuck in something, or maybe it'll have been addiction, pornography, whatever it is.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_04: And the way for us to really um be free from sin is to identify with the suffering of Jesus, which means we actually are willing to stand up so that others would ridicule us, and because we stand for him, there's no there's no double standard.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_04: We can't say on the one hand I'm standing for him, and the other, on the other hand, I'm still involved in sin.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_04: So it's almost like it's a decision-making place in your life where you say, All right, I'm I'm at the no no point of no return.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_04: When you fly um an airplane, um you get you reach a place when when you take off that's called the the place the point of no return.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_04: You can't stop the plane anymore.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: You have to now you're committed to the takeoff.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_04: And that moment in Christianity is I think when we have learned to suffer for Christ.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um so suffering for him actually produces a life where we get where we're free of sin.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, come on, that's so beautiful.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, uh, so Jacques, the last question.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd like you to imagine at some point in the future, later in their life, your children are being interviewed.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: And someone asks them the question tell us about your dad.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: What would what would you hope would be part of their answer?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: I would hope that I would say that I didn't know for myself.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_04: That's all I would hope.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I believe.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: That that that that ministers to me blesses me just saying saying that because that's in your heart and it is the evidence by the work that God is doing through your life.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: We believe that.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, great things are coming.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_04: Amen.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_04: We're just at the start of this.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, one thing that I can maybe just leave people with, if if you let me, please, is um, you know, we we as uh I'm in my 50s now.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_04: And um when you get older, you're encouraged to uh as you get as you grow older, you're encouraged always to dream dreams that scare you.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_04: The people will say if it doesn't scare you, it's not the Lord and stuff.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_04: But I've I've kind of changed my mind on that.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_04: But I I want to dream dreams that are so big that I cannot fulfill them in my lifetime.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_04: Because if I if I dream a dream big enough that it would require me to take the next generation with, otherwise it wouldn't be fulfilled, then you're speaking about generational change.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_04: And you're speaking about God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which he is.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I think for us to really trust God for things that are so big that it's that it's almost crazy, impossible.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_04: And unless we then intentionally engage with the next generation, um and and I think of people in the Old Testament that did that, Moses and Joshua.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think of um David and and and um Solomon.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um you think of um, but but when you think about Joshua's generation that followed him, they never served the Lord.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_04: So their dream was never transferred to the next generation.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_04: And Solomon's children never followed the Lord.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_04: Solomon built a temple, but what was there for his kids?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so when we neglect the next generation in our dreaming and in what we do, we really want to take them with so that man, God can do things that are beyond what we can even imagine.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Lord.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: Fired up.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you, what a wonderful word.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for for laying that on us here as we wrap up our time together.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: This has been absolute pleasure to have you.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's our honor and thank you.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: On behalf of our listeners, I know they are going to be just really uh sinking their teeth into the truth and the marvelous stories that you're telling about what God is doing.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe it's gonna motivate a lot of people.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you, sir.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a it's been awesome.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for the privilege.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa, the privilege was ours, was it not?
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a hit replay on this whole episode.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: There were so many incredible moments, so many truth nuggets, so much to digest over this testimony, this story, this ministry.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: Richard, how awesome was that?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: Golly, it was just the best.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_03: And and thank you to all of our listeners for going along in this conversation with us.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_03: What a great time.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Jock.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you, brother.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: And hey, that might not be the only time we hear from Jock.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: We might have stashed away some uh some other stories.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure you come back next week on another episode of Serbans on the Side.