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Some Kool-Aid For Thought: Jim Jones And Jonestown · Hocus Pocus Lack Of Focus

• 0:23
  Here, which others fault you go Focus, focus.
• 0:25
  Lack of focus, the very uneducational podcast that
• 0:28
  enters your mind. Like the rantings of tree
• 0:30
  maniacal cult leaders, these rants may involve witchcraft,
• 0:33
  true crime, fake news, paranormality, and a load more
• 0:37
  shy talk. You don't need to know.
• 0:38
  Today is a Danny episode, so of course there will be death.
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  Death. So much death.
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  We will be talking about the Jonestown massacre.
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  I'm justy I would have drank the kool-aid.
• 0:50
  Not because I'm easily LED, but because I'm fat and can't say no
• 0:53
  to sugar. I'm joined by known communist
• 0:56
  and writer of manifestos, the man that will be keeping you
• 0:59
  focused on your holy mission. Today, it's ocean burn.
• 1:04
  I'm I'm happy with being a communist.
• 1:07
  And our charismatic leader who is forcing us all to consume
• 1:11
  this content. The leader is good.
• 1:13
  The leader is best. We surrender our will to her
• 1:15
  giant chest. It's Danny.
• 1:21
  Thomas I like that one. That was great.
• 1:22
  That was really. Good, that was the worst intro
• 1:25
  reading I've ever done because I am very much so on drugs right
• 1:29
  now. That's fine, very much on drugs
• 1:31
  and monster as well. So it'll balance out when you
• 1:34
  crash and maybe it's a. Drug with illegal drug, yes.
• 1:36
  Yes, hi Vance, if anyone is wondering what I'm on right now,
• 1:41
  I am experimenting back with my ADHD meds and there there we go.
• 1:46
  I've mentioned ADHD already. I've also done a Simpsons sport
• 1:49
  already. Drink.
• 1:50
  I am very much so too hyper for this SO.
• 1:54
  Yeah, is, is Alex making the new, the new bingo card?
• 1:57
  Because I saw the old bingo card.
• 1:59
  Yeah, I did. I'll I'll say it to him to make
• 2:01
  a new one. Yeah, because I think it's just
• 2:03
  going to be ocean mentions. Traveling to a terrible place
• 2:06
  would be my one, yeah. It will absolutely be that
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  you've been to some terrible places recently in Helsinki
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  though, which I'm jealous of because of.
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  Helsinki and Tallinn, which are not terrible.
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  Those are very beautiful places, but but actually in in the
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  spirit of how I got like how me and my wife go on holidays, we
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  did go to not one but two KGB museums.
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  It was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  It was so good. Why wouldn't you like I, I would
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  want to do all the terrible stuff anywhere I go as well.
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  That's just like I I would do the direct tourism.
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  Some dark tourism, Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
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  I would love that. We did an episode on Mckamey
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  Manor. Have you seen the Dark Tourist
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  episode on that? No, walked up like absolutely
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  men. So Mccamie Manor is just
• 2:53
  basically like a haunted house kind of thing, but it's not
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  really like it's essentially. Haunted houses, what it sells
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  itself as. It's a it's just a torture
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  event, right? But yeah, basically.
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  So he, he charged, no, he charges like a donation.
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  So you don't have to like pay to do it, but you have to go
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  through all of these like medical evaluations and stuff to
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  make sure you're like fit to withstand it.
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  So this guy used to be a Marine? Right.
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  And basically you just donate like bags of dog food.
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  He has like a bunch of dogs. Like, doesn't he have like a
• 3:22
  shelter? I think I can't really remember.
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  He said he was donating to a shelter but people were like,
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  no, he's just feeding his own dogs with this.
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  So, so far, mixed signals. Yeah, has this.
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  Massive, massive house and then just basically tortures people
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  going through it like people you.
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  Know for cakes for fun. Yeah, so you tap out and that's
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  the haunted house. So it's kind of like a BDSM
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  house. And he films it so people are
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  like, it's like a weird kind of snuff thing that he's got going
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  on. But he.
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  Did a whole episode online. If you've got time, ladies and
• 3:53
  gentlemen, you should go back and and listen to that one yeah.
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  That that was that was a fucked up one, but I would not like to
• 4:00
  do that and Danny either, would you?
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  So. Oh.
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  No, I wouldn't. But like, I would like to, yeah.
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  But I'm just just saying like he that's another kind of like dark
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  touristy thing that it's like, maybe I could go to the house
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  and be like, that's what I have. People say no for that, like
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  thinking that it was. Do you think it was like a sex
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  thing? But it was more of a like just.
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  Actual horrible pain. How much can you withstand?
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  Like a survivor type? Thing it was billed as like just
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  scary how support it it just kind of it turned out instead of
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  like being like scary it would get so psychological that like
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  right he what he would do is like physically break you down
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  before you tried to go in so like he'd assess you beforehand
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  and if you seem too mentally strong you can he just wouldn't
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  let you. Yeah, of course.
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  And then when you got there, he would like physically have you
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  like stand holding things for like hours on end and then put
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  you through like an assault. Stress positions and like yeah.
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  There's not like. He'd yeah, bring like that was
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  before you got in there. Bored you and.
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  Well, the water board would happen inside like so all that
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  stuff like would happen outside, then bring you in and then you'd
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  have like different rooms around the house with like add actors
• 5:06
  like but like, you know, not no one was dressed as a fucking a
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  witch like it was like. He was just someone dressed in
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  like the same outfit that they were playing golf.
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  Well, no, like I I think they were like dressed up as like
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  crazy clowns and stuff. Yeah.
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  But then did like did get you in and decide like if like revving
• 5:27
  a chance are beside your face made you laugh, then what they
• 5:31
  would do is he he went and got a lot of information online why he
• 5:36
  he don't Yeah. He he broke their prayers and
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  stuff. Broke a marriage?
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  Yeah, and was like haha, cycle, I psychologically broke you, but
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  like. Crazy.
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  Really. He just told the woman's husband
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  that she was cheating on. Yeah, that sounds great.
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  Yeah, that like, like showed all the messages on this big screen
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  and everything and like was like, I'm going to send these
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  to. Yeah, that just sounds awful.
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  Yeah, terrible, terrible person. You'd prefer to just, you know,
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  just just go do a haunted house. Yeah.
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  Yeah, just go to a haunted house.
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  I mean, yeah, I Michael horny ass could not last in a haunted
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  house though, I'll tell you that much.
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  But anyway, umm, so who couldn't deal with it?
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  So, umm, someone who is I see. I can't say that this man was
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  inherently always awful, because I don't think that he was.
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  He was and he was virtue signaling.
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  But let's go. I'll, I'll we can get in.
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  We can get into this. End of the podcast.
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  We can get into this whole thing, yeah.
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  He was a son of a bitch. He was a son of a bitch from
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  even when he was a kid. Yeah, so this was originally 14
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  pages long. My notes.
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  It would be a three-week episode, I know.
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  I'm just going to say this when I went to like my normal way of
• 6:47
  doing things is like listen to a couple of eh podcasts that might
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  have like some like come at stuff from different angles.
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  So like I go down the route of like I listen to a factual one.
• 6:58
  I'm going to listen to someone, eh, like a true crime kind of a
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  one that eh, they train sensationalize it a little bit
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  and I listen to a conspiracy kind of A1 as well.
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  Where they say actually he was good and handsome.
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  I do, you know what The funny thing was?
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  There was a lot of like, there was a lot of actually this kind
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  of sort. And to be honest with you, I was
• 7:20
  kind of listening and being like, this guy might have got me
• 7:22
  on board, like because of, you know.
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  Politically, the code of his gym.
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  Politically, he what, like did this stuff he was coming out
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  with was. Like very progressive.
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  Yeah, so progressive. Yeah, Yeah, it's like the the.
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  But The funny thing is, there's so much on this.
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  We'll obviously get into it, folks.
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  We haven't even explained what we're talking about yet.
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  But on the conspiracy side of things, this one has more
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  fucking treads than the fucking Bao Tapestry.
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  It's. It just seems to be just so
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  there's. A lot of elements.
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  If if you were to believe one, it's going to send you down a
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  fucking rabbit hole that will lead you to another rabbit hole.
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  It's so like, there's so much kind of in this.
• 8:04
  Yeah, that could tie up so many different conspiracies, but none
• 8:09
  of them might be true and all of them could be true.
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  Exactly like he before I get into it, Scott for me because
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  I'm going to go turn my ice machine off.
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  Give me two seconds. Scat for you In what sense,
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  Danny? Because.
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  Or. Whatever, I'm able to shit my
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  hands and clap, but eh, no we. Can do remember there was a
• 8:31
  rumor about the scat man when we were younger like after he hit
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  like the height of his fame that there was this rumor that like
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  he took a load of pills on stage and died.
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  Yes, Yeah, yeah, I heard that he eh, he died alive, but that.
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  Yeah, yeah, he, but like he died.
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  He only died a couple of years ago.
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  Yeah, yeah, he died a couple of years ago.
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  And I remember, like, you know, everyone was like this, like,
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  weird Italian man took a load of ecstasy on stage and died.
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  Every, everybody, Scatman, Scatman John.
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  Oh yeah. Every, everybody thought he was.
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  It was just part of the show. That was kind of what I was
• 9:02
  here, like, you know what I mean?
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  He was, yeah. He was crying out and dying and
• 9:07
  everyone just thought he was scatting.
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  It's the, it's the same kind of thing.
• 9:12
  Imagine everybody has every generation has the guy who
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  removed 2 ribs. So yes, yeah.
• 9:18
  Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who?
• 9:21
  Who is that for you? Guys, Ryan Monson.
• 9:23
  Manson for me, but it was Prince for people.
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  Prince. Yeah, yeah.
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  So Prince. Oh, I've never.
• 9:28
  Heard it about Prince. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:29
  I'm showing my age with that one.
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  No, no, I I like, I am the same as she was.
• 9:35
  So like I got Prince and Manson like, so it's kind of what?
• 9:37
  I remember Manson being a thing as well.
• 9:39
  Yeah, but the first I heard was Prince and just like, OK, that's
• 9:43
  just such a weird conspiracy to just copy and paste onto someone
• 9:46
  else. Yeah, right.
• 9:48
  Let's jump into this. So before I start, it's really
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  funny because this also comes back to our good friend the
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  Kennedys. Yes, I don't have too much
• 9:59
  information on it, just you, maybe you could, you could find
• 10:01
  a little bit more, but I just know he spent like the whole
• 10:04
  summer with a Kennedy. I don't know which Kennedy.
• 10:07
  I couldn't find that out. But he was that well connected.
• 10:10
  I have a different connection later on down the line but I
• 10:14
  didn't know he spent OK. But we do have a recurring
• 10:18
  person that I. Think he lived with him?
• 10:20
  We have, we have, we do have a recurring person that comes in
• 10:22
  here who the unfortunate is a jostling character and the first
• 10:30
  lady who we hit our John Wayne Gacy episodes pointed out that
• 10:36
  she took a big draft with Casey. Loves all the freaks.
• 10:39
  Yeah, but also she ended up as being friendly with Jim Jones as
• 10:43
  well. God.
• 10:44
  Damn it. I know.
• 10:46
  OK, so we'll start at the very, very beginning.
• 10:49
  Jim Jones didn't just spawn out of nowhere.
• 10:51
  He came from a home that was, frankly, a total mess.
• 10:54
  He was born in 1931 in Lynn, IN. His dad, James, was a World War
• 10:59
  One veteran who had been a victim of a gas attack.
• 11:02
  So he lived on disability emotionally.
• 11:05
  He was a ghost, never showed Jim any affection, like would barely
• 11:10
  even look at him. Then you have his mom, Lynette.
• 11:13
  So she was the definition of like free spirit.
• 11:17
  Oh my God. Like fucking earth rain,
• 11:19
  whatever. Before that was even like the
• 11:21
  cool thing. She didn't care about religion
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  at all. She didn't believe in a in a
• 11:28
  God. She didn't really believe in
• 11:30
  anything. So she was kind of always deemed
• 11:33
  like the weirdo on the block, like, oh, don't go, don't go to
• 11:38
  her house. She she doesn't have any, any,
• 11:39
  any beliefs. Like she doesn't.
• 11:41
  Worship my God. I think she was completely kind
• 11:44
  of seen as someone who goes against her time completely So
• 11:50
  like this is in the the 40s in middle America and she was yeah
• 11:56
  she hated the husband thought he was a lazy fucker because he
• 12:00
  obviously he couldn't work. He was on disability but also he
• 12:03
  became a rage and alcoholic. Yeah.
• 12:05
  And according to Jim Jones as well, he was, he was a clansman.
• 12:09
  And that has not been goddamned substantiated, but like.
• 12:12
  That's not that confirmed, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 12:14
  But yeah, like Jim Jones said himself as father was part of
• 12:17
  the Ku Klux Klan. Yeah, the murder, umm.
• 12:20
  I hadn't heard her being described as like a free spirit,
• 12:24
  but what she was, what I've heard her described as was she
• 12:28
  was a unionist. Like she eh because she worked
• 12:32
  and it just seems that like typical eh, this is this is me
• 12:37
  getting very sexist. A woman who has to work at that
• 12:41
  stage realizes how hard work is and goes, fuck this, we need a
• 12:45
  union. So like she she kicks up and is
• 12:49
  like work is hard and we need, we need a union.
• 12:53
  So she became very kind of like a, I'm not going to say she was
• 12:57
  a communist, eh, but she had I, I would say a pro.
• 13:02
  I suppose you could say she was like a socialist, yes, Like, you
• 13:04
  know, like a classic. Socialist, yeah, would be kind
• 13:06
  of, yeah, exactly. Like that's she was.
• 13:09
  She was a proletariat who was like, eh, we need unions and we
• 13:15
  need, eh, to the system to work for the workers and not for the
• 13:21
  fat cats. Open the fucking chairs.
• 13:22
  And she was very, very kind of adamant about that.
• 13:26
  And again, like, like you said, Danny, I, there was no real
• 13:29
  religion in the household at all.
• 13:30
  Because he was a drunk, abusive Welshman, I believe.
• 13:36
  And she was, she was of Irish descent, I think.
• 13:39
  She had claimed at different points that she was a, she was
• 13:42
  power Cherokee, I think, but like, that was never, ever
• 13:45
  confirmed. And I think the dad was like
• 13:46
  Welsh Irish. Yeah.
• 13:48
  And the the dad like after World War One, like he like he had
• 13:51
  been in like some kind of gas attack and his lungs were fucked
• 13:55
  and that's why he was on disability.
• 13:56
  And he probably had like, you know, PTSD, which was like after
• 14:01
  World War One was called shell shock.
• 14:03
  Like that was before, you know, it would like change definition
• 14:05
  multiple times. And that's probably how he ended
• 14:08
  up as like this horrible alcoholic asshole.
• 14:10
  Yeah, I mean, I think like not to suck any kind of veteran's
• 14:16
  Dick at all. I just, I feel like that's going
• 14:19
  to war in general is going to just fuck you up beyond.
• 14:23
  Anything. Like anything like you're going
• 14:26
  to see like some fucking mad shit like and yeah, I obviously
• 14:30
  you're kind of not going to be fit for the real world, so to
• 14:33
  speak when you come back from war, especially like World War
• 14:36
  One, which was like. Yeah, it was all trench warfare,
• 14:39
  you know, it was, it was really like, you know, down in the
• 14:42
  muck, really visceral war. Yeah.
• 14:45
  Yeah, so where am I now? Here's the sad part then.
• 14:50
  Lynetta had 0 maternal instincts.
• 14:53
  She didn't even want children, so she didn't want Jim in the
• 14:56
  1st place. She was always busy working all
• 14:58
  the time to avoid being a mother.
• 15:00
  Jim described his childhood as totally loveless.
• 15:03
  He was always home alone, parents nowhere to be found,
• 15:06
  just a lonely kid in Indiana. His dad, again, like we said,
• 15:10
  was rumored to be an alcoholic, though the records are kind of
• 15:13
  blurry on that. Either way, Jim was basically
• 15:16
  raising himself. So by high school, Jim was
• 15:19
  already acting a little bit different.
• 15:21
  While other kids were wearing like whatever they would
• 15:24
  normally school, Jim always wore his like his Sunday best in
• 15:29
  school. He was always like very, very
• 15:31
  well dressed. So like pressed white shirts and
• 15:34
  like slacks and just every day. And he was obsessed with the
• 15:40
  image of authority. So just.
• 15:43
  Fucking dork. Like, just like, you know, he's
• 15:45
  coming from the lucky, lucky, you know, it's a tough
• 15:48
  childhood. And you know, he's coming from
• 15:50
  this place where his dad is a total mess and his mother is
• 15:52
  away with the fairies. But like, that turns him into
• 15:56
  this. Like, I am straight laced.
• 15:58
  I am by the book. I am.
• 16:00
  And he gets into religion. Yeah.
• 16:02
  And he sees like this, like opportunity in it and just
• 16:06
  thinks like, yeah, I'm going to be the most like, I, I guess
• 16:10
  it's like a reaction to a tough childhood where he's like, I'm
• 16:12
  going to be better. I'm going to be, you know, a, a
• 16:15
  shining example of a person. Umm.
• 16:19
  So he tried to play sports, Umm, and just like every other
• 16:22
  terrible man that we talked about on this podcast, UMM
• 16:25
  wasn't very good at them. Hence why he decided to kill a
• 16:28
  bunch of people. Umm, because he couldn't throw a
• 16:30
  ball, basically even started a baseball team with the kids on
• 16:34
  his block. But he wasn't good at the game
• 16:37
  at all. He was just obsessed with being
• 16:39
  the leader and forming the teams.
• 16:41
  So you know you know where this goes.
• 16:43
  Yes, so I was, I was saying that like, this is this is like the
• 16:46
  seed that like goes on for the rest of his life for like, he
• 16:49
  gets, like you say he gets a taste of power.
• 16:52
  He forms the team. So he's the head of the team.
• 16:56
  And then he gets to like tell other people what to do.
• 16:59
  And he gets this taste when he's a teenager.
• 17:02
  And it just, it completely consumes him.
• 17:06
  And everything that he does after this is like really
• 17:09
  calculated. And, you know, like to be like
• 17:11
  that as a teenager, like you're you're, you're born that way.
• 17:14
  There's something in your brain that eventually when you get
• 17:16
  that taste of power, you're just like, this is the missing piece.
• 17:20
  This is all I've ever needed. Yeah.
• 17:22
  Yeah, I think something, something triggered in them that
• 17:25
  because even when like he was when he was younger, he was like
• 17:29
  a feral child. He was like running around
• 17:32
  barefoot and stuff like that. No one was watching them.
• 17:34
  And then when he realized, like, I think he he started emulating,
• 17:39
  eh, well, we're obviously going to see it now.
• 17:41
  Like what an early age he started emulating these
• 17:44
  preachers because he could see them.
• 17:46
  They were respected, they were dressed nice.
• 17:50
  They were, eh, standing in front of a crowd of people and the
• 17:54
  people weren't just taking notice who were hanging on every
• 17:57
  word. And that's kind of what, when he
• 18:00
  realized he had the kind of, umm, I, I suppose it is a talent
• 18:07
  really like that. He had the charisma.
• 18:08
  Yeah. When he realized he had that,
• 18:10
  that he kind of, he'll really leaned into it.
• 18:13
  And that's when he started dressing nice and he started
• 18:16
  kind of a organizing things like these sports and stuff like
• 18:19
  that. And mostly like he, he used to,
• 18:21
  umm, bring kids around to his house.
• 18:24
  I, I Danny, I'm sure you have in your notes there.
• 18:27
  And when he starts having funerals for animals and stuff
• 18:31
  like that. Oh.
• 18:32
  God, yeah. He invites, so he invites
• 18:34
  children around and like, so apparently like he did really
• 18:40
  like take a shining, like he'd bring home animals all the time.
• 18:45
  And then his mother was just like, I don't care, like, do do
• 18:48
  whatever you like. Yeah.
• 18:49
  Yeah. So he was like bringing home.
• 18:51
  And there was like wild dogs. Like you'd imagine, like in the
• 18:54
  40s that like, you know, there wasn't a lot of control around
• 18:58
  your pets and stuff like that. Like, so there was just wild
• 19:00
  dogs around the neighborhood. And he kind of had the wild
• 19:04
  dogs. And according to to one kind of
• 19:07
  thing I was listening to these dogs would be very productive
• 19:10
  over him if ever there was a point when like a bully came
• 19:15
  around or his parents were shouting around like that did
• 19:17
  get a little bit nervous because he had like these dogs that were
• 19:21
  basically wild dogs behind him. Like, yeah.
• 19:25
  So like, yeah, I don't know if this kind of is where things
• 19:29
  started off, where he was like, actually I've got my followers
• 19:32
  behind me. And if these dogs.
• 19:34
  But, eh, he got that way with the neighborhood kids and then
• 19:37
  that way. Yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of a
• 19:39
  little bit crazy. Like this guy.
• 19:42
  I kind of like him all the way up.
• 19:48
  Until. You know, and I but like, you
• 19:50
  know, I. Well, until until the
• 19:52
  unpleasantness. Yeah, he is.
• 19:55
  Yes, until the Vadnais comes along.
• 19:57
  What you know about like where we all like we all stumble every
• 20:00
  now and again. I think you're right because I,
• 20:03
  and as I said earlier, I don't think that he was necessarily a
• 20:07
  terrible person. I think he like, tried to do a
• 20:09
  lot of good. And then I mean spoiler alert,
• 20:12
  we all know how it ends. It's when you get into drugs and
• 20:16
  money and greed will change any kind of man.
• 20:19
  No, I'm, I'm, I'm like totally utter side to you guys, I think.
• 20:23
  I think from a young age he knew what he wanted and he figured
• 20:26
  out by manipulating people and by taking advantage of certain
• 20:31
  situations that he could. It was a path to power.
• 20:33
  That's good. I like that.
• 20:34
  I like that we're all split so. Yeah, no, I I think I'm kind of
• 20:37
  down the middle between you guys where I'm kind of like Danny's
• 20:39
  like, oh, he's a good guy who got corrupted late.
• 20:41
  Oh, she and you're saying he was bad and virtue signaled so that
• 20:45
  people would think he was good. Yeah, I'm kind of in the middle
• 20:48
  where I'm like, I could jump on one side or the other here and
• 20:51
  be like, I'm not quite sure whether he.
• 20:53
  Arguments for both side like. Oh yeah, I, I, I, I have it like
• 20:57
  where I'm kind of like both of you are right, but I think in at
• 21:00
  different stages it kind of overlaps like.
• 21:03
  Goddamn fence sitter. Yeah, I know, I know I'm a
• 21:07
  terrible human being, but I it's, it's kind of how I see
• 21:10
  I'm, I'm leaning more towards you watching, if I'm honest.
• 21:13
  But I do think I would be the kind of person that would be
• 21:16
  like, oh, I'll follow this guy. He's saying a lot of cool
• 21:19
  things. Yeah.
• 21:22
  I'm just Danny, when you mentioned or sorry, Jesse, you
• 21:25
  said that like, you know, he was feral when he was a kid, when
• 21:28
  they were like when he was a kid, they were, they were dirt
• 21:31
  poor. Like they were so fucking poor
• 21:33
  because the dad couldn't stay and work.
• 21:35
  And like at one stage they were living in a shack that their
• 21:37
  extended family had to had to buy for them because they miss
• 21:40
  mortgage payments and they used to ferry Ferridge forage in the
• 21:45
  forest for food. And like they were, they were
• 21:48
  poor, poor, you know, so like there was just this like
• 21:50
  survival instinct. And you know, I think, I think
• 21:54
  that's kind of what fed into what he became.
• 21:56
  Is that like, you know, everything became a bit of a
• 21:58
  hustle, you know, to, to survive, to, to get your next
• 22:02
  meal to, to figure out where you were going?
• 22:05
  Yeah, that's a good point. That's a really good point.
• 22:07
  So yeah, as a, as a teenager, then he started church hopping.
• 22:11
  Umm, he went to every church in town just to see what they were
• 22:15
  saying, like what they were preaching about.
• 22:17
  Umm, he wanted to know all of the options because he was
• 22:20
  looking for a place where he could belong, or more accurate
• 22:23
  accurately, a place he could eventually run.
• 22:26
  I guess. Umm, he carried a little Bible
• 22:29
  everywhere and would stand in the middle of the shopping
• 22:31
  district just preaching his heart out.
• 22:33
  He was incredibly passionate and people started to notice.
• 22:36
  Which also fucking nerd. Really a teenager?
• 22:38
  Just fucking. Preaching as a He was doing this
• 22:40
  as a fucking teenager. Could you imagine how annoying a
• 22:43
  preaching teenager would be? Like an Enoch work off this guy.
• 22:49
  Oh my. God.
• 22:50
  That's a good point that makes me not like him there so.
• 22:52
  Like on the, on the the Underground here in London, Like
• 22:55
  sometimes you will get like the underground train preacher.
• 22:58
  And like, it's more common on the subway in New York.
• 23:01
  Like, it happens all the time. Yeah.
• 23:02
  But sometimes you get it on the London Underground and every
• 23:06
  time every like everyone is just like this fucking guy would just
• 23:10
  shut the fuck up. Because you don't want to be on
• 23:13
  a tube ever. And it's like the last thing.
• 23:15
  You want to do some guy preaching as well, but we we get
• 23:20
  the soul boxers here in there in, in Ireland a lot like we're
• 23:24
  like literally, yeah. Yeah.
• 23:25
  Yeah, yeah, they'll be, they'll be up and like some of them have
• 23:28
  amps like if there's a guy that eh, sometimes is out with the
• 23:31
  GCO and he'll have an. Amber.
• 23:33
  I know him. I remember him.
• 23:34
  He's been there years. But like, yeah, you're just,
• 23:37
  he's just white noise as well at the same time, like he can, you
• 23:40
  can just yeah. But like, yeah, again, it's, but
• 23:44
  it's just one of those things as well that like if if there was a
• 23:48
  a Muslim guy standing outside the GP or, you know, talking
• 23:52
  about the Quran, there'd be fucking uproar.
• 23:54
  The guy, he'd be fucking dragged down the street and follow strip
• 23:56
  neck and trying to absolutely. Oh yeah.
• 23:57
  It's like, you know, people choose what they want to like
• 24:01
  what's acceptable. And that's a particular society,
• 24:04
  but I think Jim Jones was trying to figure out which one was the
• 24:08
  one that was going to catch, like which which honey was going
• 24:10
  to catch the most lays. And I think he that's why he was
• 24:13
  pretty hopping through which religion.
• 24:16
  And it's all the same religion. It's all Christianity.
• 24:18
  But like, yeah, which one was going to be the one that that
• 24:21
  that kind of caught most? So he was the most attention.
• 24:24
  So he was drawn towards Pentecostalism.
• 24:27
  And the, the thing with Pentecostals is that they, they
• 24:31
  believe in being born again. So like, you know, you kind of
• 24:35
  find this within your life and you're born again.
• 24:37
  And it's this thing of accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and
• 24:40
  Savior, which like you, if you've watched any sport where
• 24:44
  an American has won something they will talk about like I
• 24:46
  would like to thank Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.
• 24:48
  That's Pentecostalism. A lot of terrible people turn
• 24:51
  from being a Pentecost or being an absolute to Pentecostal
• 24:55
  because the the born again thing is less or you wash away a lot
• 25:00
  of sins. Yeah, all these people.
• 25:03
  Exactly. The Sean Michael thing was what
• 25:04
  I was going to say. So like a guy, Russell?
• 25:06
  Brand. My brother.
• 25:09
  But there we got like, well, like people who have led a life
• 25:13
  where they know they have sinned.
• 25:16
  And yes, yes, now you can, you can come along and say I found
• 25:21
  Jesus. And it's the worst game of fight
• 25:23
  and seek ever, because the prize you get is smugness and the fact
• 25:29
  that you, yeah, you've now got superiority.
• 25:31
  So like you the, the, the thing about like this being Catholic,
• 25:36
  eh, or, you know, eh, dead again, Catholic as I am.
• 25:40
  But like you're, you kind of have that shame and that fear
• 25:43
  and that kind of like, Oh yeah, you're literally born with
• 25:47
  original sin, they call it. And yes, you have to make hope
• 25:50
  for that your whole fucking life.
• 25:52
  But these Pentecostal bastards, they just show pathway through
• 25:57
  their life after doing terrible things like, you know, fucking
• 26:01
  eh, that's I'm not going to get into it now, but the Epstein
• 26:04
  files, you're going to see so many of these fuckers we've.
• 26:08
  On. That, eh, I've been between
• 26:11
  Jonestown and the Epstein files I brought my brain this week.
• 26:15
  It's it's terrible. Yeah.
• 26:17
  It's crazy. I think one of the reasons that
• 26:19
  he was attracted to Pentecostalism is because within
• 26:23
  the the Pentecostalism thing you have the priest does the say the
• 26:28
  re baptism and they do they like help a person accept, you know,
• 26:34
  Jesus Christ into their heart, etcetera, etcetera.
• 26:36
  A lot of things. Wanted to belong in that as
• 26:39
  well. Yeah.
• 26:39
  And like he, he wanted to be the person that would welcome people
• 26:43
  into this church because I think that in his head, he was the
• 26:48
  savior. He was the one saving them
• 26:51
  because he he was bringing them into the fold and in their mind
• 26:54
  it was because of Jesus Christ and God.
• 26:56
  But to him, I think he was going, no, I'm doing this, this
• 27:00
  is all me. Yeah.
• 27:02
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that it tracks like
• 27:06
  there's with the way things go later on and how people talk
• 27:10
  about how he he wasn't very religious for someone who led a
• 27:14
  church yeah that it tracks that like he met it about himself and
• 27:20
  not really about Jesus and pretty quick as well it Jesus
• 27:23
  kind of went out of his Christianity it's.
• 27:25
  Like whiplash. Yeah, I feel like that's a
• 27:27
  that's a huge thing most, most Christians do.
• 27:31
  Like it's, it's never about your faith.
• 27:33
  It's about like how good you are as a person for having that
• 27:37
  faith. It's never actually about
• 27:40
  worshipping or anything like that.
• 27:42
  And they're always terrible fucking people, always terrible
• 27:45
  people. Do you know who else has found
• 27:47
  God? Conor McGregor of.
• 27:49
  Course he fucking has. Yeah.
• 27:52
  When did that happen? After he raped like the third
• 27:55
  woman like. Yeah, something like that.
• 27:57
  Fuck's sake. Anyway, so at 17, this is
• 28:00
  another thing that but this is a complete side note here.
• 28:02
  But what baffles me about like that back then is you could have
• 28:05
  these fucking like gnarly jobs at such a young age.
• 28:10
  So he works in a hospital. Are they what are they called?
• 28:12
  I couldn't figure out the name when I was doing the notes, but
• 28:14
  basically orderly, orderly, yes, thank you.
• 28:17
  Who like cleans up vomit and moves bodies around and moves
• 28:20
  like uh. We call them porters here.
• 28:23
  Porters. OK, see I watch.
• 28:25
  Too much American TV? Yeah, that's what that is.
• 28:27
  Yeah, scrubs for me. Umm, but he like, he got this
• 28:31
  job at 17 and now my my mother was working in Saint Senin's
• 28:35
  mental hospital at 14, which is just fucking wild.
• 28:39
  Jesus. Christ.
• 28:41
  Wild to think of. Yes, yes, that's right.
• 28:47
  That's right. That's right.
• 28:49
  No, she was, she worked in the kitchens when she was 14 in a
• 28:53
  fucking mental hospital. Yeah.
• 28:54
  And she's at that time then when she, she got married to my dad
• 28:57
  at like 21. And back then it was illegal for
• 29:00
  a married woman to work, so she she couldn't go back to.
• 29:03
  Work, yeah. Fuck.
• 29:05
  Love that fur when? Was this?
• 29:07
  So she was born 1952 so she would have been maths health.
• 29:15
  It would have been like the 70s if she was like 20s.
• 29:18
  So it would have been the late 60s if she was like, yeah, like
• 29:21
  the the 90's, the mid 60s, late 60s, she would have been a
• 29:24
  teenager. And you're telling me it was
• 29:25
  illegal for a woman to work once you got?
• 29:29
  Married. You couldn't go back to work.
• 29:31
  Mm. Hmm.
• 29:31
  Yeah. More direct, right?
• 29:33
  Yeah, once you got married, you couldn't go.
• 29:35
  Back in Catholic Church, man. Because I'm older, when I all,
• 29:38
  like my mother, worked herself into a grave like I like she,
• 29:42
  all she did was work well. It was legal.
• 29:47
  Yeah, maybe. Maybe at the start, maybe I just
• 29:49
  because I'm the youngest of my family, so maybe I just saw her
• 29:51
  working. Days.
• 29:52
  How old was your mother? When was your mother born?
• 29:54
  When she was born. Sorry.
• 29:55
  How she was 0 when she was born. When was?
• 29:59
  She born. You was going there.
• 30:01
  She was born in 1956 I believe. Just after my mom then, yeah,
• 30:06
  maybe it had changed by then, but that or she just told my
• 30:10
  dad, oh, that's actually legal for me to work now, so I have to
• 30:13
  stay at home. I mean genius.
• 30:17
  That's pretty good, actually. The priest told me I can't work
• 30:21
  anymore. He.
• 30:21
  Would have been like. All right.
• 30:25
  And like, he would have believed that too, if she had said priest
• 30:27
  because he never went to Mass and he always gave it to us for
• 30:29
  not going. And then I'm like, well, you
• 30:31
  don't go to bath. He's like, we have our own thing
• 30:32
  going on. We have an agreement.
• 30:34
  What? Me and God, Yeah, right.
• 30:36
  OK. Yeah, I just, I just, I needed
• 30:38
  to clarify that. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:39
  I. Don't have to go because I'm
• 30:41
  always on the continent. So he.
• 30:42
  I talked when I can't. I talked to the big lad myself,
• 30:45
  yeah. He's like he said, you still
• 30:47
  have to go because if you don't, it's a mortal sin on your soul.
• 30:50
  I like, all right, OK. And then we used to just go,
• 30:52
  right? We'd go.
• 30:53
  We'd hide in the backyard in the fucking freezing cold rather
• 30:57
  than just go up to mass and sit inside in the warm.
• 31:00
  I was sent a. Mass.
• 31:03
  Sent a mass with 20P in your pocket for the priest and then
• 31:07
  Jesus Christ, I'm old. And then you'd have to come back
• 31:10
  and tell what? What was the priest talking
• 31:13
  about? So you'd come up with so, ah,
• 31:14
  the one of them Saint Paul to the Corinthians.
• 31:17
  It was always a good chance I was saying Paul.
• 31:18
  Talking to a neighbor? Then yeah.
• 31:21
  That would have been my, my, my mother was very religious, but
• 31:25
  never went to Mass. I think like she had 100% she
• 31:29
  was, she was riddled with ADHD. Well, like I think she was a
• 31:32
  little bit, eh, agoraphobic as well.
• 31:35
  Hey, going like to places where there was like people that she'd
• 31:39
  have to talk to and stuff. So she never really went to
• 31:41
  Mass, but she ended up like later in her life, she ended up
• 31:45
  like being one of these people who brought people to Lourdes.
• 31:48
  She was a helper, like went on pilgrimages to Lourdes and stuff
• 31:52
  like that. So like I was, I was like this
• 31:54
  woman went from not going to Mass going to where mass lives
• 31:59
  like that's. Like Lourdes and Lourdes and
• 32:04
  like, magic, gory like are just two of the weirdest places in
• 32:08
  Europe because people go there and they're like, oh, I'm going
• 32:10
  to go and pray and stuff, but they go over there and they
• 32:12
  fucking drink and stuff. Weird Ocean's been.
• 32:15
  Bingo. Oh no, I haven't been.
• 32:16
  Haven't been to either. One OK, but I but I have.
• 32:21
  Been to knock AH. Well, yeah.
• 32:23
  I have been to knock the Irish Lords.
• 32:25
  You know what we could do? I don't know, this is a big
• 32:28
  bingo, but we could do a full episode on how Knock came about.
• 32:32
  The Irish version of Lords. Yes, yes.
• 32:34
  Oh yeah, as a priest. Television.
• 32:37
  Fucking yeah, yeah, yeah. I was trying to remember.
• 32:39
  Priest a vision and A and a corrupt Irish.
• 32:42
  Government, yeah, and just, eh, people just brown envelopes all
• 32:46
  over the place. Fuck yeah.
• 32:48
  And as we are digressing here. So I have lost my place.
• 32:54
  Yes, the 17 gets job at the hospital, cleaning up vomit,
• 32:57
  moving bodies. I I don't know how he did that,
• 32:59
  but apparently he thrived there. That was like, he loved it.
• 33:03
  He thought about going into medicine because he loved the
• 33:05
  environment so much. Umm, And this is where he met
• 33:08
  Marceline, eh, a nursing student, and she was like
• 33:11
  totally fucking charmed by him because he he had that air about
• 33:14
  he was. A charismatic guy.
• 33:16
  And older than him. Older than him by a few years as
• 33:19
  well I think. Yeah, she was.
• 33:21
  Like he was 17, she was 23, I think something like that.
• 33:25
  Oh, scandal. And so she thought that he was
• 33:28
  the most caring person alive, umm, because he preached that
• 33:32
  everyone was equal and that it was his responsibility to help
• 33:35
  the world. They got married in June of
• 33:37
  1949, but as soon as the honeymoon phase was over, the
• 33:41
  mask slipped. He told Marceline he didn't
• 33:44
  believe in her God, and they had these massive heated arguments.
• 33:48
  But because divorce was such a sin back then, Marceline felt
• 33:52
  trapped and she decided to stay and try to convert him.
• 33:57
  But the thing about this is, so Marceline didn't really kind of
• 34:01
  make anything for herself. She kind of very much like
• 34:05
  relied on him and stuck to him. Like even if she wanted to
• 34:08
  leave, she couldn't. She didn't have anything to go
• 34:11
  to. She didn't, you know, have
• 34:12
  anything that. Hits her wagon to him and that
• 34:14
  was it. But that's how he operates.
• 34:15
  Exactly. That's yeah, he he, he forces a
• 34:20
  dependency on him. Yeah.
• 34:21
  So he yeah, he he does that. She's kind of like the test
• 34:26
  subject. She's I think she I wouldn't say
• 34:28
  it's like she's she's a like patient hero for this.
• 34:34
  Like I, I think like he's already tried out.
• 34:36
  He had a friend I think named Dog back in in Indiana where he
• 34:44
  like he treated him like shit but watched him always come
• 34:49
  back. I got once when he was even, I
• 34:51
  think he shot at his friend with an actual gun.
• 34:54
  And yeah, Dog just kept coming back.
• 34:58
  And he realized like he kept he, he had him wrapped around his
• 35:01
  finger in a way. He could talk them into coming
• 35:03
  back, yeah. Yeah, he could talk, always talk
• 35:05
  him into coming back. And this this dog guy talks
• 35:08
  about that like later on, like he's he's interviewed and stuff
• 35:11
  where he's like, Oh, yeah, I was his best friend or I thought was
• 35:16
  his best friend. But really, I was like, his
• 35:19
  first disciple is the way he probably would have described
• 35:22
  it. Like.
• 35:22
  And then it's the same thing when it came along with the
• 35:25
  wife. So she was enamored by him.
• 35:28
  Like, again, this young guy, but he was so charismatic that like,
• 35:32
  he obviously was able to get this older woman and then she
• 35:37
  became completely dependent on him and subservient to him even.
• 35:42
  Like, yeah, what a dude. He would.
• 35:47
  Have killed it on Reddit today. But at this stage, he's my hero
• 35:52
  because like it at this, I really admire the fact now
• 35:58
  again, he's a kind of a shitty fucker, like so like we know
• 36:03
  that when it comes down to it. But at this stage I'm looking at
• 36:06
  this guy being like, jeez, he's got all the eh, charisma.
• 36:11
  He can, you know, talk to fucking anyone into doing
• 36:14
  anything for him. Like he can talk to *** off a
• 36:17
  fucking eh The the any woman he sees he can, you know, like
• 36:21
  this. He's come from nothing as well.
• 36:23
  Yeah, yeah, he's. After pulling himself up by his
• 36:25
  bootstraps. Yeah.
• 36:26
  And fucking like and become somebody that is so enigmatic
• 36:32
  that he like gathers people who follow him before he even is
• 36:36
  someone to follow. Like he's just getting like 1 by
• 36:39
  1 now. But like later on, obviously
• 36:41
  we'll see that he gathers people in their masses like, but like,
• 36:44
  yeah, yeah, he's, he's this kind of person that like I'm
• 36:47
  listening or, or eh, reading about this guy and I'm like,
• 36:50
  fuck, like what? I have been the kind of person
• 36:53
  to be enamored by him. Now I'm kind of an argument as a
• 36:56
  fucker at times. Like if we bought heads on
• 36:58
  stuff. I, I do feel like I'm very
• 37:00
  headstrong. So like I, I come up against
• 37:03
  authority a little bit. But again, I think like at the
• 37:05
  time I, I don't know if I would have just been like this dream
• 37:10
  ball. I'm going to follow him
• 37:11
  anywhere, you know, you get me. It's like that meme that that's
• 37:14
  going around. I feel like I very much identify
• 37:16
  with that meme. It's like I'm not stupid enough
• 37:18
  to go into a cult, but I am nosy enough.
• 37:20
  Oh yeah. But then it would be a point
• 37:22
  from that. Let's see what's going on.
• 37:23
  Let's see where he's going with this.
• 37:24
  And then before I know what I'm like in it and I'm like, how did
• 37:27
  this happen? Like let me off the island.
• 37:30
  See, I just, I just think that like as soon as, as soon as
• 37:32
  someone would be like, Oh no, give me all your money.
• 37:34
  I'm just like, absolutely not. The funny thing is with this,
• 37:39
  with this as it starts, he's he's not technically.
• 37:45
  He steps into this, Yeah. So he's not like, like this is a
• 37:48
  religion where you need to hand over all your money.
• 37:50
  The, the, what he was starting off with is, umm, we're going to
• 37:54
  take care of the sick and the week.
• 37:56
  So if you give over your money and, or at least some of your
• 38:00
  money now, then we're going to look after the, the sick and the
• 38:03
  weak. But really he was, again, we're
• 38:06
  probably going to get into it now.
• 38:07
  He was praying on the sick and the weak and then praying on
• 38:11
  the, the people who wanted to help those as well.
• 38:15
  So yeah, he, he, he was so good at manipulating situations and
• 38:21
  people. Yeah, So Jim eventually realizes
• 38:25
  that the white churches he attended were boring and stiff,
• 38:30
  and he felt that people were there because they had to be and
• 38:32
  not because they wanted to be. So he started going to black and
• 38:36
  African American churches, and he fell in love with the energy,
• 38:39
  the singing, the dancing, just how they worshipped.
• 38:42
  And he felt like the vibe there that he couldn't find anywhere
• 38:46
  else. By 1952, at age 21, he was hired
• 38:49
  as a student pastor, which, what a fucking nerd.
• 38:52
  You're 21. He's just old enough to drink
• 38:55
  here, and he's like, Nah, I'm a shooting pastor.
• 38:58
  He ditched the nurse dream and decided his new calling was the
• 39:02
  pulpit. But after a year, he got
• 39:04
  frustrated because he didn't want to follow anyone else's
• 39:06
  rules. He moved to Indianapolis and
• 39:09
  opened his own church, the People's Temple.
• 39:12
  This is, this is the thing that I've been talking about before.
• 39:15
  That was in last week's episode. And it's the contrarian thread
• 39:20
  that runs through men like this where he, you know, he gets
• 39:25
  little glimpses of power and then eventually he just goes,
• 39:27
  fuck this. I, I have to do it.
• 39:29
  I have to do it or I'm the one in charge.
• 39:31
  Like, you know, he, he was a student pastor, which means he
• 39:34
  was like what, you know, 20th on the pecking, pecking order.
• 39:38
  Yeah. And he was just like, you know,
• 39:41
  he like, I think he got into like the nursing because like,
• 39:44
  it was a position of power and respect and he thought he could
• 39:47
  get it that way. He didn't think that that was
• 39:49
  enough. So he was like, OK, I'm going to
• 39:50
  be a pastor because he was checking out all these pastors
• 39:52
  and especially in like black and African American churches
• 39:55
  because like they're such like positive celebrations of faith
• 39:59
  and joy and community. And the pastors are like super
• 40:03
  well respected in these churches because like, they do bring
• 40:06
  people together in celebration. And he was just like.
• 40:09
  Oh, that's how I do it. That's how I'm going to do it.
• 40:11
  Yeah. And then he joined the church
• 40:13
  and he was like, you know, eh, you know, like 20th on the, on
• 40:16
  the totem pole and was just like, no, no, no, I can't wait
• 40:20
  for this. I'm going to set up my own
• 40:21
  goddamn church. What did to think about the umm,
• 40:24
  I, why I think he, he showed a reverence to these black
• 40:29
  churches because yes, you're, you were seeing was the, the
• 40:34
  energy in the room that was given back to the pastor at the
• 40:37
  time or, or the reverence. So like when, when he was in
• 40:41
  this, this white church, quiet man's church, he was looking at
• 40:47
  this, OK, there's a guy at the the top and it's pretty boring
• 40:50
  and everybody is kind of zoned out.
• 40:52
  Nobody is tuned into this guy. So he said in this church that
• 40:56
  he wanted it to be he, he wanted to allow black people in.
• 41:01
  And at the time segregation was like still like you couldn't,
• 41:06
  there was, there was absolutely no way that you could like
• 41:09
  integrate black people into this white church.
• 41:12
  And he said, like, what godly place wouldn't allow all of
• 41:15
  God's children in there? Like, so this was this was kind
• 41:18
  of where like on the surface area you're looking at him and
• 41:22
  you're saying, like, oh, man, this guy, he's a civil rights
• 41:25
  activist. He's really like pushing for
• 41:28
  that. And then the argument can be
• 41:29
  made later on when we find out like why or, or kind of like his
• 41:33
  motivations behind things that he kind of targeted the black
• 41:40
  community because they were slightly more like easily.
• 41:45
  And I get again, I'm just trying to be careful with my words here
• 41:48
  because I don't want to sound like I'm fucking racist or
• 41:51
  anything like that. But like the, the the black
• 41:54
  community at the time was easily a little bit more LED when it
• 41:58
  came to religion because they got into it so much.
• 42:02
  And that was the the thing like he like the energy in the
• 42:04
  churches. So like he was able to see,
• 42:06
  right, if I can get in here and I create an integrated or yeah,
• 42:12
  an integrated church where I let the whites and the blacks like
• 42:16
  in together, this is going to be my whole, this is going to be
• 42:19
  individual. It's going to be my own thing.
• 42:21
  And I'm going to be able to kind of target a new kind of society,
• 42:27
  which is going to be the people who are progressive.
• 42:31
  Like there was no progressive church.
• 42:32
  You're either one or you're the other.
• 42:34
  But he wanted to kind of make it so that he makes this big
• 42:37
  energetic church that he can get white people, black people, all
• 42:40
  these people in and kind of make it his own thing.
• 42:44
  And that's why he kind of, he left that church and said, I'm
• 42:47
  going to make my own church. And it was on the basis of
• 42:50
  because I'm progressive and I want to an integrated church.
• 42:53
  But then later we probably will see that.
• 42:55
  OK, he just wanted to be able to manipulate more people like.
• 43:00
  Yes. I I do love as well.
• 43:02
  So it was called what was it called before?
• 43:05
  It was the wings of Deliverance. I think he originally the church
• 43:10
  was called and then he changed it to the people's temple purely
• 43:13
  because this building that they moved into already had temple
• 43:15
  carved into the stone that. That original name is very Erica
• 43:20
  Kirk. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 43:23
  He should can at the funeral, kind of.
• 43:24
  Make heaven crowded. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:27
  Yeah, I do think he went through like a bunch of names before he
• 43:30
  like, yeah, he changed a few times.
• 43:32
  Yeah, Yeah, he's situated on that one because he couldn't get
• 43:35
  rid of the word temp. It was convenient, yeah.
• 43:38
  Like, well, it already says temple.
• 43:39
  So because I think it was, I think it was a synagogue before,
• 43:44
  beforehand. And then when he took it over,
• 43:46
  yeah, he was just like, well, we just have to go with the name.
• 43:49
  So the People's Temple was unique because it was racially
• 43:52
  integrated, which was a huge deal at the time.
• 43:54
  Marceline was the one behind the scenes keeping the paperwork and
• 43:57
  schedules organized while Jim did the talking.
• 44:00
  So she would also choose what he was preaching about every
• 44:04
  Sunday, which is really interesting.
• 44:07
  Like, so she would, she would kind of go through all that and
• 44:09
  he would just be like, yeah, give me a topic and I'll spit
• 44:11
  ball it because she was like the properly religious one as
• 44:15
  opposed to him and. He just knew how to like, like
• 44:18
  to take an actual religious subject and he would like, riff
• 44:21
  on it and, you know, you know, cast his net.
• 44:24
  And so just just when you're talking about like the like, how
• 44:27
  like what he did was incredibly socially progressive in one way
• 44:32
  because he was like, talking about like, you know,
• 44:34
  integration and the like. So this was like 1952 when he
• 44:40
  left the other church to form his own church, to form the
• 44:43
  integrated church. Like the American Civil rights
• 44:46
  movement was like mid 50s, uh, up until the 60s and, you know,
• 44:53
  still needed in America. Yeah, he was way ahead of the
• 44:55
  curve. He was like as a white guy, like
• 44:57
  he was way ahead of it. But again, like I think that he.
• 45:00
  Actually, I have to stop you there.
• 45:02
  You can't describe a white guy on this podcast.
• 45:04
  You have to say a white. Guy.
• 45:07
  Sorry as a what man? You're new.
• 45:10
  You'll get it. You'll get.
• 45:12
  It being being so like into like integration at that time is just
• 45:17
  like, it's unheard of. But like, again, like I just
• 45:20
  think that he saw he saw the civil rights movement in its
• 45:24
  infancy and he was just like, there is fruit here for me to
• 45:28
  pick. Yeah.
• 45:29
  And I think, I think all of this is like, yeah, it's really
• 45:32
  progressive, but it's and like just you were saying this is
• 45:34
  what? It's really cynical.
• 45:37
  You know, he's just like I'm going to cast a wider net
• 45:40
  because then more people will be in my net.
• 45:43
  Yes, yes, but he saw these kind of umm, that civil rights
• 45:48
  activists and leaders as well, and they were some of the most
• 45:50
  charismatic people as well, again because of our.
• 45:52
  Oh. Yeah, like, like, and they were
• 45:55
  like creatures as well. Yeah.
• 45:56
  They're the most like, let's book in let's face it here.
• 46:00
  Like they're the most charismatic.
• 46:02
  Back in the day when you had all like a country full of Wasps,
• 46:07
  these black guys who are standing up preaching basically
• 46:11
  whether whether it was a religious ideals or political
• 46:14
  ideals, it was still, they were the most kind of charismatic
• 46:18
  people you could see. And because other people you
• 46:20
  were seeing were white guys with boys clothes with black ties
• 46:25
  that were pulled straight up just like chopping themselves
• 46:28
  with these ties. And they were like the most
• 46:31
  boring people that you could fucking imagine in America at
• 46:35
  the time. And we're going to go through
• 46:37
  all of this when we go through more of a Ocean's why America
• 46:40
  has gone fucked up or whatever the name of that one is with
• 46:44
  America. What's wrong with America?
• 46:47
  Whatever. Yeah, it's it's the basis of
• 46:50
  everything we talk about. Like it's always going to come
• 46:52
  back to like America is kind of fucked up.
• 46:55
  And it like, again, it's the Pac-Man and all these born
• 46:59
  fuckers were trying to hold on to this power, but it was
• 47:02
  slipping away from them. And I think that our buddy Jim
• 47:06
  Jones here was looking at the tight turning early.
• 47:09
  Yeah, and he was wanting to get in on it.
• 47:11
  Yeah, because like the, to just like say what you're saying
• 47:14
  about like there is this thing where like, you know, black
• 47:16
  musicians, black preachers have this charisma that's different.
• 47:21
  And it's because in a lot of black churches, they're way more
• 47:23
  positive. Like, you know, they it's, it's
• 47:25
  praising, it's celebrating, it's sharing.
• 47:28
  And then white churches, we say this as Irish Catholics
• 47:31
  culturally, it's fire and brimstone.
• 47:33
  It's like, you know, God is watching you.
• 47:35
  If you do XY and Z, you're a Sinner.
• 47:37
  You're born a Sinner. You you have to spend your whole
• 47:39
  life with it. But like black churches
• 47:41
  generally, they're full of hope because like.
• 47:44
  I think it comes from African culture, really.
• 47:46
  So like, yeah, yeah. Because.
• 47:47
  It's much more positive. Yeah, so like the actual, the
• 47:50
  the actual the guys who were brought over from Africa,
• 47:53
  brought over their religion. That was kind of now they were
• 47:56
  brought into Christianity, but that that doesn't leave your
• 48:00
  religion like this day. It doesn't change how they
• 48:03
  worship. Exactly.
• 48:04
  The worship was the same. It's the same like when we, we
• 48:06
  were talking about with Brendan, when we were talking about
• 48:09
  Brendan's voyage and how the Christians came over and they
• 48:12
  couldn't exactly troll Christianity word for word into
• 48:16
  Ireland. They had to integrate it with
• 48:18
  our culture and that we we have kind of a different version of
• 48:21
  Christianity because we're Irish.
• 48:23
  And it was the same with the with the black Americans who had
• 48:27
  a different way of worshipping, as you say, because culturally
• 48:29
  they are a different people. And they're obviously as well.
• 48:35
  You have to look at it in a way that if you've been dealing with
• 48:40
  slavery and then, you know, Jim Crow and all the, the, the
• 48:44
  different kinds of kind of persecution that the black
• 48:48
  Americans were dealing with all through the years is that
• 48:51
  they've overcome that per with perseverance, true positivity,
• 48:56
  and they've had to do it. It's like white people say like,
• 48:59
  oh, Irish people are. They're always so funny and
• 49:02
  they've got a dark humor. Yeah, it's the reason why.
• 49:05
  Survival mechanism. Yeah, so like the reason why all
• 49:08
  these kind of persecuted peoples like the Irish, the Jews could
• 49:14
  persevere through like it was humor and charisma and with the
• 49:18
  the black communities, it was, I should say, African communities.
• 49:23
  It was true positivity. And again, community and that's
• 49:29
  what all of these churches were and these political movements as
• 49:32
  well, how they unified true like positivity and to be like.
• 49:37
  And as you say, with music and with their church practices,
• 49:42
  even with like how they dressed, they were just cooler, more
• 49:46
  positive and like quiet. America was afraid of this.
• 49:50
  Yeah. So yeah, Marceline was behind
• 49:52
  the scenes. But she she was she was a fairly
• 49:55
  progressive person as well as Marceline woman as well.
• 49:58
  So I don't think like she was just kind of like, I don't think
• 50:01
  he was able to convince. Yeah, but like she was also.
• 50:05
  Shitty person. Yes, she.
• 50:06
  She was like a very socially aware as well, and she was kind
• 50:11
  of eh, like we'll see like the day with how their family became
• 50:16
  blended. We'd call it today, eh, but like
• 50:19
  she was someone who he obviously followed her morals as well.
• 50:22
  That who them kind of eh, funny that they found each other in
• 50:26
  like at the time that they found each other.
• 50:28
  But like these people who like were so progressive like that
• 50:32
  there were like the anti white people of of the time.
• 50:36
  Like so like, I don't think he he just convinced her to change
• 50:40
  her whole way of thinking. I think they did a line on a lot
• 50:43
  of things as well. Yeah, definitely.
• 50:47
  So the church grew too fast and they needed a bigger building
• 50:50
  since the community, it was low income.
• 50:52
  Jim knew that he couldn't ask for donations and he needed a
• 50:57
  performance. He couldn't just, you know, be
• 50:59
  like, oh, help. You have to like to give them
• 51:01
  something for their money. Yeah.
• 51:04
  So he started by healing small things like headaches and
• 51:08
  coughs. He did the whole, we'll get into
• 51:12
  this is because this makes me laugh so much.
• 51:13
  Like he did the whole like heal, heal, like screaming and like
• 51:16
  putting his hands on people, amping everyone up.
• 51:20
  And then people like, believe this because he brought in
• 51:23
  audience plants. Always.
• 51:26
  People from his inner circle, people who like already went to
• 51:30
  the church, they would pretend to have like, heart defects or
• 51:33
  even like fucking cancer. Jim Jones would put his hands on
• 51:37
  them and like, healed him. And it's like, it's a truly just
• 51:39
  like I had born with the cataracts.
• 51:42
  And then Jim Jones put his hands on me and I went to bed and
• 51:45
  opened my eyes. I had not known that my house
• 51:47
  had wallpaper. Like it was just like these
• 51:49
  crazy fucking stories. He used to get people to old up
• 51:53
  and black up. So like there was this, but no,
• 51:56
  it was a secretary. There was a secretary who worked
• 52:00
  for him, who he got to dress as an old woman, put her in a
• 52:03
  wheelchair and she got out when she walked, you know.
• 52:06
  And. Then ran across the stage.
• 52:09
  Yeah, and and I. Started doing flips, yes.
• 52:12
  It was. It was basically this stuff and
• 52:15
  an. Old woman, and then she's just
• 52:16
  Eric Kirk. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
• 52:19
  She was a tap dancing frog from the Warner Brothers thing.
• 52:21
  But like it was, it was Hello my.
• 52:24
  Baby exactly. Yeah.
• 52:25
  But like he also got people to black face so that the black
• 52:29
  community. Would see him doing that to a
• 52:31
  black. Person as well, he's such a
• 52:33
  black person, but he didn't get that person.
• 52:35
  He just got the same woman who was an old person and then just
• 52:38
  like blacked her up a bit, but because she was up on the stage,
• 52:41
  like people didn't get close enough to see like, yeah, you
• 52:44
  couldn't get close. Yeah, it's fucked up.
• 52:46
  It's just fucked up like so. The.
• 52:48
  But again, here we go like it's the progressive, it's the
• 52:51
  progressiveness is the outer shell.
• 52:53
  And when you bite into it, there's the same cynicism is
• 52:56
  underneath all of it, like. Yeah, so like this.
• 52:59
  And it's, it's fucking wild the, the lengths that he went to.
• 53:02
  So the, the cancer cure gym or a nurse would swab someone's
• 53:07
  throat and then secretly drop a piece of chicken liver into
• 53:10
  their mouth. The person would then gag it up
• 53:13
  and the nurse would show the cancer to the audience screaming
• 53:16
  that Gym had saved their life. And people were so blown away
• 53:20
  that the money just started fucking pouring in because they
• 53:23
  really believed he could cure cancer.
• 53:26
  So, you know, uh, the movie Man in the Moon.
• 53:28
  Yeah, about Andy Kaufman. Yeah, and just bring it up.
• 53:31
  There is that scene where like Andy is riddled with cancer and
• 53:34
  he is, he is like like forlorn. He's desperate for like help and
• 53:39
  he just, he's searching for everything.
• 53:40
  And he goes to one of these. He's like sponsored by accident
• 53:43
  this like, you know, healing church and he goes in, but he
• 53:46
  accidentally sees like how they fake it.
• 53:49
  Like, you know, they, they, they, they poke it and they Pam
• 53:52
  the, the, the bits that they pull out.
• 53:54
  And it's like, you know, just like animal guts.
• 53:56
  And he sits there and just kind of like laughs to himself that
• 53:59
  like it's all a joke. And it's it's that exact thing
• 54:02
  where it's just people taking advantage of desperate people in
• 54:05
  desperate situations. I think he almost, eh, choked an
• 54:08
  elderly lady to death because he was.
• 54:11
  Like, of course, yeah, because he was doing.
• 54:13
  It's going to happen. He was doing the.
• 54:14
  Trick with the chicken liver and apparently slipped it down her
• 54:17
  throat like and she was fucking like.
• 54:20
  She literally almost choked to death.
• 54:22
  And but then you know what he probably like patter on the back
• 54:24
  saved her life and was like, see exactly I just I saved her.
• 54:28
  Kind of give her to him, like. And then he broke three ribs and
• 54:30
  was like, yeah, yeah, I've seen like.
• 54:32
  This, this whole, this whole she's.
• 54:34
  Alive, isn't she? This whole thing about like, you
• 54:37
  know, where he he figured out, it's like, OK, I need to come up
• 54:40
  with a gimmick. I need to come up with a
• 54:42
  character, I need to come up with situations.
• 54:45
  It's like the again, like last week, a phrase that's popping
• 54:48
  around in my head is snake oil salesman.
• 54:50
  Yes and yes. That is, that is going to be a
• 54:53
  future episode of What is Wrong with America and Snake Oil
• 54:56
  Salesman. Can't wait, I thought.
• 54:58
  Weird. And this, this is his snake oil.
• 55:02
  It's the healing. It's the like I, you know, got
• 55:04
  God's power in my hands. We say that he was a shitty
• 55:07
  person and or Sheen, like I think you had touched on the
• 55:11
  fact that the whole integration thing was simply just to kind of
• 55:15
  just grab as much people as possible.
• 55:17
  I think he was genuinely passionate about integration.
• 55:20
  Like I do genuinely think that he was for civil rights and
• 55:23
  things like that. I don't think that he was like,
• 55:26
  you know, just doing it for a show.
• 55:28
  I I I feel the same that he that like that we've we've got ex
• 55:34
  like exactly what you're talking about was right, but ocean is
• 55:37
  right as well. This is what this is what I
• 55:39
  again, I'm sorry to be. On the fence.
• 55:41
  But like. No, it's fair.
• 55:43
  Like it's hard to call. I do believe that he is
• 55:47
  progressive in his political views.
• 55:50
  What I also believe is that he is a fucking sociopath.
• 55:55
  So he's, he's just like if, if he was, if he was a completely
• 56:01
  like the other way and a racist, he'd probably be a fucking grand
• 56:08
  wizard and fucking clan. You know what I mean?
• 56:10
  Like, I, I think whatever, whatever place, whatever way his
• 56:13
  political views would have aligned, he would have claimed
• 56:16
  that ladder anyways because he was the fucking sociopath.
• 56:19
  But I do believe he taught he was doing good, like all the way
• 56:24
  through. Also him being on top was just
• 56:28
  something he couldn't help. Yeah, he saw like, maybe, maybe
• 56:32
  like, you know, he was like, genuinely socially progressive,
• 56:35
  but like, he also just saw like dollar signs in it as well.
• 56:39
  Yeah. Yeah, that's quite possible,
• 56:41
  yeah. No, I do.
• 56:42
  I do get that. So he would take his members to
• 56:46
  restaurants that were segregated and hold peaceful protests until
• 56:50
  the owners gave in. Once businesses agreed to
• 56:53
  integrate, Jim would hand out Flyers to his thousands of
• 56:56
  members telling them to, like, only shop there, only eat there,
• 57:00
  all of these different places because they accept black
• 57:02
  people. And then these businesses then
• 57:05
  made mad money because of him. And he kind of became like a
• 57:09
  best friend, you could say, to small business owners.
• 57:12
  And his influence in the city became massive.
• 57:14
  But again, from that side of it, it is just basically business
• 57:18
  owners being like, oh, like just fucking just let him in and make
• 57:20
  loads more money. And they're just like, fuck,
• 57:23
  don't we fucking want to? But OK, like.
• 57:25
  He's positioned himself as like the the fixer.
• 57:28
  Yeah, he's. He's got it, yeah.
• 57:31
  Like, he's got his parishioners. And then he goes to these
• 57:34
  businesses and he's just like, look, I can't.
• 57:36
  Like all you have to do is let these people in.
• 57:37
  Their money is good. And because the civil rights
• 57:40
  movement was like, you know, moving at this time, like, you
• 57:43
  know, the the tide was kind of moving this way anyway.
• 57:46
  But then like as soon as the businesses were like, oh, we've
• 57:49
  like, you know, quadrupled our weekly take.
• 57:52
  Like this is great. And it's because he's brought
• 57:54
  these these people here and they're not going to other
• 57:57
  businesses which have remained segregated.
• 57:59
  And he just wins more and more favor like, you know, business
• 58:01
  by business. Like it's he's such a a
• 58:03
  networking fucking asshole. He really is.
• 58:06
  He's a schnoozer. But so in 1967 Jim, Marceline
• 58:11
  and their four kids, at this point 1 biological and three
• 58:15
  adopted, moved to Ukiah, CA. So how you say that, Ukiah?
• 58:20
  Ukiah. Ukiah.
• 58:23
  Ukiah. Yeah, that's how I've heard.
• 58:24
  It by 69, Jim, he was feeling down because the church wasn't
• 58:29
  as famous as he wanted and then the drug you started, he was
• 58:32
  taking pills to get up so. Can we just go to like we like?
• 58:36
  We can't skip over these kids. I don't think like these. 1st,
• 58:40
  it's super weird, yeah. They're Korean, so like, yeah.
• 58:44
  So he, they, he's, he adopts, they adopt him and his wife
• 58:51
  adopt three Korean kids and then end up having their own
• 58:55
  biological child, which I, I think some people were kind of
• 59:01
  skeptical of that. It was like, you know, they,
• 59:03
  they didn't believe that he was going to have a biological
• 59:06
  child. Because I think a lot of people
• 59:07
  when they look into this, they say that he's like a deeply
• 59:11
  closeted gay man. I don't think he is.
• 59:12
  I think he's sexually ramp sexually rampant.
• 59:16
  Eh, But can we I just eh some of the facts that I I know of him
• 59:21
  before we get go down because like the drug use start before
• 59:26
  that before he became like full time as a pastor, he was a door
• 59:31
  to door monkey salesman. Did you notice?
• 59:33
  Have you seen this I? Saw a picture of him, I saw a
• 59:35
  picture of him with a couple of monkeys and I was just like, no,
• 59:38
  that's not real. That's the best job.
• 59:40
  Ever I'm I'm one of them. So this is where we come in like
• 59:43
  this sounds like an unbelievable human being yes he he was making
• 59:50
  money selling monkeys door to door.
• 59:53
  Oh, now, no, no, he what he there was, there was a, there
• 59:58
  was a woman who was like, yeah, he came to my house and he spent
• 1:00:02
  like a few hours here just chatting to me and talking to
• 1:00:04
  me. And then I just bought a monkey
• 1:00:06
  off him because he was. I just had these monkeys.
• 1:00:09
  He was selling monkeys and he was such a nice gentleman that I
• 1:00:12
  bought a monkey off him. This guy, you think that this is
• 1:00:16
  what we were talking about? A snake oil salesman.
• 1:00:18
  How? Yeah.
• 1:00:19
  How is it not called? He was a monkey salesman.
• 1:00:21
  This guy literally like, I'm not like, you know, stuffed monkeys
• 1:00:26
  or a little kind of symbol playing monkeys like I'm a
• 1:00:29
  fucking monkey. Like he was selling fucking zoo
• 1:00:33
  animals door to door and making bank on it.
• 1:00:37
  Like can we? Different times, man.
• 1:00:40
  Like, yeah, yeah, it's such a bizarre thing.
• 1:00:42
  It's so fucking weird. If someone came to the house,
• 1:00:44
  turned. Up at my front door.
• 1:00:45
  Yes, we need 100% the talking teacher.
• 1:00:53
  There's a monkey on our shoulder.
• 1:00:54
  If if yeah we would. But like if someone came to my
• 1:00:58
  house, tried to sell me a monkey, I'd be like get the fuck
• 1:01:01
  off of my porch you son of a bitch and then I'd steal his.
• 1:01:04
  Monkey yeah, now sixties, 60s. I'll take two I.
• 1:01:08
  Have 2 monkeys. I have 2 monkeys.
• 1:01:13
  Yeah, we are very In Sync and like, yes, so this is this is
• 1:01:18
  the kind of like he's got this fucking just this charisma.
• 1:01:22
  But he also as he came enamored by.
• 1:01:25
  I don't know if you read into this guy or if you have him in
• 1:01:28
  the North, this fat or divine. Yeah.
• 1:01:32
  Yeah. So Father Divine kind of sounds
• 1:01:34
  like a priest from Galway, which I was very much expecting that.
• 1:01:38
  Absolutely. But no, eh, he's not Divine is
• 1:01:41
  an Irish surname, by the way, if anyone is listening in, I'm
• 1:01:44
  wondering why I'm talking about it.
• 1:01:46
  But he was an African, eh, I, I want to say a cult leader
• 1:01:52
  because it kind of was, yes. So.
• 1:01:54
  He was very. Cool again.
• 1:01:55
  So he was very much so a charismatic man.
• 1:01:58
  This this is eh and another like a real influence on Jim Jones's
• 1:02:02
  life. And he saw the way he preached
• 1:02:06
  at the people and he kind of emulated this a little bit and
• 1:02:10
  like as you eh listen to eh kind of some tapes of of Jim Jones.
• 1:02:16
  He gets kind of more black as the the tapes kind of go on.
• 1:02:21
  He does like he he. He's like copying the.
• 1:02:25
  Styles switches. He called switches so much for
• 1:02:28
  different people like so I think he like sees people and then
• 1:02:32
  emulates them. And I think that's why he was
• 1:02:34
  doing with this guy Fatter Divine.
• 1:02:35
  And even when this guy Divine when he died.
• 1:02:39
  So again, that's obviously not Fatter Divine's real name.
• 1:02:42
  He called himself Fatter Divine and he was married to a woman,
• 1:02:44
  woman that he called Mother Divine.
• 1:02:46
  And they were the leader of their own cult, their own
• 1:02:49
  church, and she was a. Lot older than him as well.
• 1:02:52
  She was like, yeah really? Wendy old compared to him.
• 1:02:55
  He ended up dying and Jim Jones contacted her and was like, I
• 1:03:01
  want to take over to church. And she was like, no way, no, no
• 1:03:04
  way, no way, no way. And eh, but this is where he
• 1:03:07
  kind of was like, fuck this. I'm I'm going to make.
• 1:03:09
  I'm going to make my own as well.
• 1:03:11
  Yeah, so busy. He did that like.
• 1:03:14
  Jack and. Hooker Futurama reference
• 1:03:17
  Excellent. But it's just, it's just an
• 1:03:20
  sorry, I know I've gone back a little bit, but it was just
• 1:03:23
  another. No, this is really, this is
• 1:03:25
  good. It's yeah.
• 1:03:26
  It's a little trade in there to show that like this.
• 1:03:28
  This guy is like always fucking hustling.
• 1:03:32
  He's he's picking. And so when when he contacted
• 1:03:35
  the the widow of Father Divine, he tried to like position
• 1:03:38
  himself as like almost like a reincarnation of Father Divine.
• 1:03:42
  He's just like, you know, yeah. He's like, you know, I'm like
• 1:03:45
  the I'm the spiritual successor and maybe literal like
• 1:03:50
  reincarnation. And it's just like you are
• 1:03:52
  trying everything like. She.
• 1:03:55
  She said, she said like, you were born in 31.
• 1:04:00
  She was like, she was like, yeah, there's no way.
• 1:04:02
  Like he died like while you were in your communities, there's
• 1:04:05
  absolutely no way you could be reincarnated.
• 1:04:08
  And he was like, no, no, his spirit passing to me.
• 1:04:10
  His Yeah, yeah. Because Father Divine was born
• 1:04:12
  in like the 1870s. Yeah, yeah, he was.
• 1:04:15
  Like he's a throwback. Yeah, yeah, the four kids and
• 1:04:19
  they move to, you can say Ukiah. But by 69, Jim was feeling down
• 1:04:27
  because the church wasn't as famous as he wanted.
• 1:04:30
  Then the drug you started, he was taking pills to get up and
• 1:04:33
  liquids seared down. And this turned him from a
• 1:04:36
  caring leader into a paranoid, controlling psycho.
• 1:04:41
  His eyes were always red and watery from the drugs, so that's
• 1:04:44
  why he started wearing those infamous dark sunglasses 24/7.
• 1:04:48
  No, no, this next bit I just, I fucking love this so much.
• 1:04:52
  Yeah, yeah, we too. It's very, very X-Men to me.
• 1:04:58
  I. No, no, To me, it's like Elvis
• 1:05:01
  Presley at the height of his drug use.
• 1:05:03
  But it's like, this is like 10 years before Elvis was doing it.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah. And it's a, it's a more like,
• 1:05:09
  like caricature evil Elvis version.
• 1:05:13
  Evil Elvis. Umm EE uh.
• 1:05:16
  So he told his followers that his inner holy energy was so
• 1:05:20
  bright that if they looked at his eyes they would literally
• 1:05:23
  burn to death. They believed him, King.
• 1:05:29
  Legit. You've got to believe me, if you
• 1:05:32
  look me directly in the eyes, you'll burn a lie.
• 1:05:34
  Yeah, this is so he just. Didn't like he's just fucking
• 1:05:39
  mental at this point. Like he was going mental.
• 1:05:41
  People were just like, Yep, got it, no problem, Jim.
• 1:05:43
  That's true. That's that's obviously, but.
• 1:05:46
  Can you see like the more it kind of progresses?
• 1:05:49
  By the way, he had five children at this stage, Danny, because
• 1:05:52
  before he moved to California, they adopted a black kid and
• 1:05:57
  they were the first white people ever to adopt A black kid in
• 1:06:01
  Indiana. And which again, was, sorry,
• 1:06:05
  that's just a timeline thing that just stuck in my head there
• 1:06:07
  because I know, again, another kind of a progressive thing.
• 1:06:10
  But when they went to California and this is when we're seeing
• 1:06:14
  him like into the drugs and stuff like that, obviously he
• 1:06:17
  kind of gets into that lifestyle.
• 1:06:19
  So like he he got in Indiana, he got like fair into the favorite
• 1:06:24
  of politicians and stuff like that.
• 1:06:25
  I mean, he got kind of like he realized he was hitting the wall
• 1:06:29
  and yeah, yeah, he needed to go somewhere that was there was
• 1:06:33
  more people and also was a lot more progressive because he
• 1:06:37
  could, you know, eh, like get get under the skin of more
• 1:06:41
  people in California. And again, California was well
• 1:06:44
  known for being, eh, kind of hippie dippie they would have
• 1:06:48
  in. The 1960s, yeah.
• 1:06:49
  Yeah, yeah. So again, everyone was all
• 1:06:51
  about, eh, you know, peace, love and integration.
• 1:06:55
  Integration. Yeah.
• 1:06:57
  So we we get to California and that's when, eh, he, he kind of,
• 1:07:03
  he went there wanting to kind of brawl, but also he fell into the
• 1:07:10
  vices very quickly of what California is as well.
• 1:07:13
  So like when he got in with these, with these people who he
• 1:07:17
  was like he was getting in with these groups who he was like he
• 1:07:22
  was influencing them obviously, like because that's what he was
• 1:07:25
  doing. But unbeknownst to himself, like
• 1:07:26
  he was falling into the trap of like, I'm going to take these
• 1:07:29
  drugs and I'm going to do this. I'm going to live this fucking
• 1:07:31
  life. And he kind of got into free
• 1:07:33
  love and drugs and all this kind of stuff.
• 1:07:35
  And he was then really struggling with I'm a cult
• 1:07:42
  leader base because that's why he was at this stage.
• 1:07:44
  He was. It was a full blown cult, Yeah.
• 1:07:46
  It was a cult. Leader, but also I've got my own
• 1:07:49
  demons. So you start to see the cracks
• 1:07:51
  appear in him where he's he goes off from there.
• 1:07:56
  I'm just collecting money from people and preaching and kind of
• 1:08:01
  having power into this kind of, this is where it kind of gets a
• 1:08:05
  little bit maniacal and he starts getting very controlling
• 1:08:09
  and the whole thing kind of spirals from California, I
• 1:08:12
  think. Yeah.
• 1:08:13
  Yeah, massive, massive, uh, hypocrite as well.
• 1:08:16
  So Jim preached against cheating, uh, but he was having
• 1:08:20
  an affair with a 19 year old church member and he told
• 1:08:23
  Marcelyn, who was bedridden with back pain, uh, that he still
• 1:08:28
  loved her, but he needed this girl on the side for the sexual
• 1:08:31
  part that she couldn't provide. Gas lift to bits like he was
• 1:08:37
  this was his MO was like he really did go down the route of
• 1:08:42
  well, if I don't get what I want, I'm going to hold my
• 1:08:44
  breath and we'll see it like come out later on, Like he does
• 1:08:47
  it to like the NTH degree. Well, like he'd done that with
• 1:08:50
  his wife here as well. Like, eh, I'm, I'm a good man,
• 1:08:55
  but I have needs. I, you know, and he he emerges
• 1:08:59
  exactly. And then he kind of convinced
• 1:09:02
  her that he should be allowed to have sex with whoever he wanted
• 1:09:06
  now. Because, you know, it was.
• 1:09:08
  It was he was making it, her failure.
• 1:09:10
  As well. Yeah, yeah, you.
• 1:09:11
  Know it's like you can't provide this, you can give me my
• 1:09:14
  matrimonial, yeah, duties. So I'm just getting it somewhere
• 1:09:18
  else, but I'm telling you about it.
• 1:09:20
  And it was to the point where like he actually stood up and
• 1:09:24
  told the church that he was shagging this 19 year old.
• 1:09:27
  Like just just stood up there, like alright, God is good is
• 1:09:31
  good. And so we're 19 year olds.
• 1:09:33
  I'm fucking that girl. Over there the most Matthew
• 1:09:35
  McConaughey character from that movie. 19 year olds, that's what
• 1:09:41
  I like about. I get older, they stay the same
• 1:09:44
  way. But, yeah, so like, basically,
• 1:09:47
  you got up and, like, fucking told everyone and, like, his
• 1:09:49
  followers just supported them. They're like, you know what?
• 1:09:51
  King makes sense. Yeah, She can't suck your Dick.
• 1:09:54
  That girl can. Makes sense.
• 1:09:56
  You go for it. You do what you want to do.
• 1:09:59
  And yeah, eventually he convinced almost all of the
• 1:10:02
  women in his inner circle that having sex with him was part of
• 1:10:06
  their religious duty. And this is like, this is so
• 1:10:09
  common in cults. Yeah.
• 1:10:11
  It's most cults. Like cults will always reach a
• 1:10:13
  point. Like, you know, whatever roller
• 1:10:16
  coaster journey they take, they will always reach a point where
• 1:10:19
  the people at the top are like, you know what?
• 1:10:21
  I want to have sex with 300 women.
• 1:10:22
  Yeah. And I'm.
• 1:10:23
  Going to do. That, yeah.
• 1:10:25
  It's like, oh, there's a bunch of married couples.
• 1:10:28
  Oh, we'll see. God says that I have to bang
• 1:10:30
  your wife. You know, it's just, it's just
• 1:10:32
  how God I'm still. On board with him, though, I get
• 1:10:35
  this name like I'm like, but I'm I'm honestly saying I I'm
• 1:10:40
  looking at him and being like this guy is the coolest.
• 1:10:44
  He is no in my head right now. I'm like like open to this
• 1:10:50
  point. If I'm sitting in that
• 1:10:51
  congregation and he was like, I'm I'm up here ladies and
• 1:10:55
  gentlemen, I'm going to have sex with all these women.
• 1:10:56
  I'll be down there going fucking preach King.
• 1:10:59
  I would like because now it's. You're just like, someday this
• 1:11:03
  could be me. Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, oh,
• 1:11:04
  free. So this is, this is what it's
• 1:11:05
  going to be. If he's, if he's getting away
• 1:11:08
  with this stuff, then that's what it's going to be.
• 1:11:09
  So it's going to be free love. So in my head I'm like, OK, so
• 1:11:13
  this guy, he's preaching the good word, whatever it is that
• 1:11:18
  I'm believing in integration, progressiveness, and now free
• 1:11:23
  love. I'm like, yeah baby, sign me up.
• 1:11:27
  I'm drinking that Kool-aid knowing that it is 100% just
• 1:11:31
  cool and aid right now. Big because you're like, he's a
• 1:11:34
  fucking legend I. Yeah, I've been looking at like
• 1:11:37
  I'm not like look looking at a true the eyes of someone in 2026
• 1:11:42
  who is 40 years old and knows better.
• 1:11:45
  Well, if you got me at 19 and I'm sitting there, I'd be like
• 1:11:51
  this stuff is. This sounds like a fun time.
• 1:11:53
  Yeah, this is how. People fall for Andrew Tate
• 1:11:55
  though. Yeah, well, no, no, they vote
• 1:11:58
  for. Andrew Tate because they don't
• 1:11:59
  have a fully developed brain. Yeah, I was good.
• 1:12:01
  I was going to say like, I don't, I don't think I'd ever
• 1:12:04
  fall for the likes of Andrew Tate because again, I'm a little
• 1:12:09
  bit more on the sensitive side. So like I, I don't like any kind
• 1:12:14
  of cruelty aspect. So like, I don't, yeah.
• 1:12:16
  He's super aggressive. Yes, yeah.
• 1:12:17
  I don't like when when it's like putting somebody down.
• 1:12:20
  So if this guy, you're sitting up there saying like we're all
• 1:12:22
  going to go to heaven and we're all going to go to heaven as
• 1:12:25
  people holding hands with black, white, fucking everybody, you
• 1:12:28
  know, Asian people, fucking Cherokees, everybody, we're all
• 1:12:31
  going to heaven together and we're all fucking on the bus.
• 1:12:34
  I'll be like, yeah, get me on that post to heaven, maybe.
• 1:12:37
  That sounds like a good time. Ladies.
• 1:12:42
  When it comes to like cult leaders and stuff like this,
• 1:12:45
  right? So this is I have very, we all
• 1:12:46
  know I have very questionable taste in men, right?
• 1:12:48
  Fine, whatever. You don't, Manson.
• 1:12:52
  No doubt. My I was.
• 1:12:53
  Literally just going to say hands down Manson, hands down
• 1:12:58
  Manson. I would have like, like I would
• 1:13:01
  have taken, I would have taken that UTI like a fucking champ
• 1:13:05
  like. Oh, she would have been Stalin.
• 1:13:08
  Like we all know what? Like what way?
• 1:13:10
  I would have been the Red Army, yeah. 100.
• 1:13:12
  Percent yeah, I would have had that gross like gravelly desert
• 1:13:16
  sex, like no fucking problem. And I understand that.
• 1:13:20
  So I'm like, I guess it's just like it's a case of like, to
• 1:13:23
  each their own. Like I I'm not going to say I
• 1:13:26
  love fucking Manson, Jesus, but I would have I back then in the
• 1:13:29
  fucking 70s, I probably would have fallen for Manson.
• 1:13:32
  And I guess if you like the clean cut, God fearing,
• 1:13:35
  respectable man that Jim Jones was, you could maybe kind of see
• 1:13:39
  him as handsome. I I just don't understand.
• 1:13:42
  That square head, you know, fat square head.
• 1:13:44
  And he had bad teeth and like, I mean, he wore the share of those
• 1:13:48
  glasses, though they really did suit him.
• 1:13:49
  I know he was going to murder everyone around him if they
• 1:13:52
  looked him directly in the eye. Like, I mean, yeah.
• 1:13:54
  He was protecting his flock. But if you have like the likes
• 1:13:57
  of A and who I love, this is like another cult that we'll do
• 1:14:00
  an episode on and because it's actually really interesting.
• 1:14:02
  But a Marshall Applewhite from the eh the Heaven's Gate called
• 1:14:07
  heaven. 'S Oh fuck.
• 1:14:09
  Adorable weird little gay man and he had his wife so the the
• 1:14:14
  other woman who like who ran the the cult with him, they were
• 1:14:17
  married, but like obviously because he was so very gay, he
• 1:14:20
  wasn't having sex with her. And so he was able to forbid
• 1:14:23
  everyone else from having sex because he wasn't having it so.
• 1:14:26
  I, just like you, can't. Yeah, basically he was like, oh,
• 1:14:28
  it's forbidden. That's why me and my wife never
• 1:14:31
  have sex. Like because we're so.
• 1:14:32
  Devoted. That's why I never touch women,
• 1:14:35
  yeah. None of us would have very I
• 1:14:37
  don't think any of us here would jump on the Koresh bandwagon.
• 1:14:40
  No, I don't think that's one that God, no.
• 1:14:42
  I. Don't think I'm stupid enough to
• 1:14:44
  fall in the Koresh, but I'm pretty stupid.
• 1:14:46
  But like, not Koresh stupid. I don't think, I don't think, I
• 1:14:49
  don't know. It depends.
• 1:14:52
  He was a bit, he was, he was just, he was a little bit just
• 1:14:56
  full on at the like the whole he was.
• 1:14:58
  Very, yeah. He was very, very like angry at
• 1:15:02
  the world, like, and I think, yeah, he went crazy, but we can
• 1:15:06
  do a whole episode on like, it's Waco, isn't it?
• 1:15:09
  Waco, yeah. Yeah, we could do a whole
• 1:15:11
  episode on that because that was a fucking shit show and I have
• 1:15:14
  the government handle that as well.
• 1:15:15
  Was just fucking wild. America.
• 1:15:18
  Yeah. Fuck yeah.
• 1:15:19
  Let's get back to Jones, though, so we can.
• 1:15:23
  So I feel like I'm the one that's really derailing at this
• 1:15:26
  time around. No, no, you're.
• 1:15:28
  No, this is good. It's good.
• 1:15:30
  We're still, we're on. We're still on topic.
• 1:15:32
  And but so Jim became obsessed with the idea that the FBI and
• 1:15:38
  the sea again. Now, just to go back a little
• 1:15:40
  bit, this was 14 pages. I caught a lot of shit out of
• 1:15:44
  this four time. Yeah.
• 1:15:47
  So anyway, Jim became obsessed with the idea that the FBI and
• 1:15:50
  the CIA were out to get him. He told his followers that
• 1:15:53
  America was going to become a land of concentration camps.
• 1:15:57
  Does that sound familiar? It just fucking history repeats
• 1:16:01
  itself in like 30 years cycles. He, yeah, he was very much so
• 1:16:06
  using what was in the this the psyche of the people at the
• 1:16:09
  time. So not many years before this,
• 1:16:15
  eh, Japanese Americans were in internment camp, yes.
• 1:16:19
  So yeah, he was he was using that.
• 1:16:21
  He was using the words internment camp especially like
• 1:16:24
  he was saying, eh, when he also had his people kind of cut off
• 1:16:29
  and they did, we'll see. He really wanted to get them cut
• 1:16:31
  off later, like, but he was trying to cut them off from a
• 1:16:36
  talking to to anybody outside the cult as well so that he
• 1:16:40
  could tell them what was happening in America right now.
• 1:16:43
  And he was saying the civil rights movement was kind of
• 1:16:47
  backfired and that black people, it was inevitable that they were
• 1:16:51
  all going to be put into internment camps and that there
• 1:16:54
  will be eh, that they're going to be locked up and you have to
• 1:16:56
  stay with him. And this is, eh, you're, you
• 1:16:59
  were safe within the temple and you shouldn't go, you know, I
• 1:17:03
  mean, don't go out. It's like the is it the hills
• 1:17:05
  advice where it's like don't go past hills.
• 1:17:06
  Advice. Yeah, Like, eh, everything like
• 1:17:08
  outside of our compounds, like everyone's out to get you.
• 1:17:11
  Yeah, exactly. And so around this time, so like
• 1:17:14
  the his paranoia about the FBI and CIAI think, I think there
• 1:17:18
  was a genuine paranoia there because there probably were
• 1:17:20
  fucking watching like it was well known cult at the time, but
• 1:17:23
  I think he he used it and he fed it to his his like his people
• 1:17:29
  saying that like, oh, look, they're they're coming for us.
• 1:17:31
  So we need to leave. But a lot of the bad publicity
• 1:17:35
  that they were getting at the time is because there was a
• 1:17:37
  bunch of men who had left the cult because Jones had fucked
• 1:17:41
  their wives and so these guys had left the cult.
• 1:17:44
  Sorry. Well, I think they were.
• 1:17:46
  They were called the the something 8 because it was 8
• 1:17:49
  men. Yeah.
• 1:17:49
  Left. Yeah.
• 1:17:51
  Yeah. And they they went to the media
• 1:17:53
  and they said like, look, we were in this this cult and we
• 1:17:56
  were in it for like the right reasons.
• 1:17:58
  And as soon as you got into it, all this abuse started
• 1:18:00
  happening. And then he was having sex with
• 1:18:02
  my wife. And now I have no relationship
• 1:18:03
  with my wife anymore. And yeah, it was like 8 guys.
• 1:18:06
  And so Jones, like, was just like, OK, I know how to spin
• 1:18:10
  this. The feds are looking out for us.
• 1:18:12
  They're coming to get us because they don't want us.
• 1:18:15
  They don't want us to live free and to love and to live in this
• 1:18:18
  perfect society. This information so they're like
• 1:18:21
  it was he was using this against like our yes was against his own
• 1:18:28
  people where he was saying these people left and now they're
• 1:18:31
  brainwashed when it was really like yes he had his people
• 1:18:35
  brainwashed he's saying like these guys that the CIA have
• 1:18:38
  gone up and he was yeah apparently he was a very
• 1:18:41
  paranoid person before and the. Drugs.
• 1:18:45
  Before the drugs and stuff like that, like so like this
• 1:18:47
  obviously didn't help. And also, I imagine the fact
• 1:18:51
  that the CIA were, and again, this is the, this is down the
• 1:18:58
  route of conspiracy. But like again, as you say
• 1:19:00
  Osheen, if you're a cult in the 60s, there's no way in hell that
• 1:19:07
  the CIA doesn't have something on you like our or isn't like at
• 1:19:12
  least keeping tabs on you. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:19:15
  So in 1973, they scouted a location in Guyana, South
• 1:19:19
  America. By 1977, Jonestown was ready.
• 1:19:24
  Jim promised a utopia. But it was, it was a labour
• 1:19:27
  camp, umm, people were sleeping on top of each other, followers
• 1:19:32
  were starving on and they were only fed peanut butter and Jelly
• 1:19:35
  sandwiches and rice, uh, while Jim had a fridge, fans, a
• 1:19:40
  generator and mistresses. So he had everything.
• 1:19:45
  Yeah, so. Like he.
• 1:19:46
  Could want OK, I'm I'm going to go now.
• 1:19:49
  I again, don't want to derail too much, but just on the
• 1:19:53
  conspiracy side of things here where, yeah, Jim Jones while his
• 1:19:59
  eh, while, when they got to California, things were going
• 1:20:02
  really well. And at the height of the, the,
• 1:20:06
  the California experience, there was about 3000 people in the
• 1:20:09
  congregation. And he kind of, he, he's seen
• 1:20:12
  that they, they had hit a wall at 3000 people.
• 1:20:14
  So that's when he started scouting eh, for other
• 1:20:17
  locations. But also there was word of him.
• 1:20:21
  His passport had gone to eh, like England.
• 1:20:27
  Uh, had been to Russia, which is, uh, kind kind of a big one,
• 1:20:30
  but like had a load of stamps from a load of different kind of
• 1:20:34
  places that he's gone on a kind of whistle stop tour to these
• 1:20:38
  different places. Now the conspiracy are the kind
• 1:20:42
  of the people who would like look into things and would find
• 1:20:45
  correlation would say that the likes of Lee Harvey Oswald and
• 1:20:50
  Chapman, uh, well known, uh, sleeper agents as people would
• 1:20:56
  say that they are belonging to like again, that's a conspiracy,
• 1:21:00
  eh? But they had also gone on these
• 1:21:02
  whistle stop tours before, eh, whatever happened with them?
• 1:21:07
  You know what I mean? Like, so like Jeff and that
• 1:21:10
  stuff like that. So they're just people are kind
• 1:21:12
  of pulling a kind of a ah, was he was he in the CIA?
• 1:21:20
  You know what I mean? Was he or was he an asset?
• 1:21:22
  Yeah. Is there is the question there.
• 1:21:24
  And again, I, I'm, I don't want to go away too much from the
• 1:21:28
  actual truth or the source material.
• 1:21:30
  What I just want to point out there, it has been, it's it's
• 1:21:34
  been in the like zeitgeist or like, you know, the, the, the
• 1:21:38
  air that the, the story is out there.
• 1:21:40
  Yeah. That this all could have been
• 1:21:43
  like that. Jim Jones.
• 1:21:45
  This all could have been enough, yeah.
• 1:21:46
  Yeah, and again, all leads down, it goes down with MK Ultra as
• 1:21:50
  well, like this kind of stuff when you see the drugs are
• 1:21:52
  involved and stuff and Manson and we see that Manson was a he
• 1:21:57
  was part of the MK Ultra trials. And when MK Ultra was like an
• 1:22:02
  actual thing that was happening, that's we know that that
• 1:22:05
  happened. It was in the CIA have released
• 1:22:07
  those documents. They went underground in the
• 1:22:11
  early 70s. So like in 71, I think maybe
• 1:22:15
  that that's when MK Ultra went underground.
• 1:22:18
  So in 73 people are saying very convenient timing that this guy
• 1:22:23
  who now is addicted to all these fucking drugs.
• 1:22:26
  Yeah. So now he's now this.
• 1:22:28
  So why things change so rapidly in the early 70s?
• 1:22:31
  Like, so again, that that's just like he, he ended up, he kind of
• 1:22:36
  settled in, in Brazil for a little while and was like, eh, I
• 1:22:40
  love it here, but couldn't really get the Brazilian
• 1:22:45
  government on board with bringing like allowing like 1000
• 1:22:48
  people to come to, to Brazil and all.
• 1:22:51
  Also they didn't speak the, the, the language.
• 1:22:55
  So we've got the next best thing was Guyana, which which turned
• 1:22:59
  out to be the perfect because we actually talked about this in
• 1:23:03
  the the Puritan and Pod, which is yeah, they they the Puritans
• 1:23:09
  almost landed in Guyana because it was a British colony or it
• 1:23:14
  was, it was yeah, kind of the I think the Brits and the Dutch
• 1:23:19
  kind of had a share in it and and they.
• 1:23:22
  Had it like divvied up amongst themselves?
• 1:23:24
  Yeah, so and put then the British I think in the 1800s
• 1:23:27
  bought it outright off the Dutch and it was a British colony.
• 1:23:31
  So the language in Guyana is actually English.
• 1:23:36
  So it's very handy for a bunch of Americans to land there and
• 1:23:41
  they actually speak the language and where.
• 1:23:43
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:23:44
  Yeah, so where they ended up setting up as well is so
• 1:23:47
  convenient because it's on the border between Guyana and eh,
• 1:23:53
  Venezuela. So yeah, the the Guyanese
• 1:23:56
  government were so happy to have a bunch of Americans settled on
• 1:24:01
  the border between Venezuela and Guyana because Venezuela were
• 1:24:06
  very into invading at the time. And yeah, so or they talk.
• 1:24:12
  They were like an insurance. Policy.
• 1:24:14
  They had a barrier this, eh, this American cushion.
• 1:24:17
  If you have a bunch of Americans and you have the Venezuelans
• 1:24:21
  come and slaughter everybody that's in their way, the first
• 1:24:24
  people to meet is the Americans. And then that becomes a crisis
• 1:24:29
  and America is going to start fucking bombing Venezuela.
• 1:24:33
  About 40. About 60.
• 1:24:35
  Years never do something like. That.
• 1:24:37
  They would never be. 50 years too early and so yeah.
• 1:24:41
  They would never go bomb Venezuela.
• 1:24:44
  But I just think that it's it's again, really kind of, eh,
• 1:24:48
  there's conspiracy out there was this one.
• 1:24:53
  There's so much that kind of, you know, like that or the CIA.
• 1:24:57
  And again, when we get to the end, we'll see that the CIA were
• 1:25:02
  close by, like there's Green Berets and stuff close by and
• 1:25:06
  eh, conveniently, eh at the time.
• 1:25:09
  So was he an asset or was the CIA kind of infiltrated on in
• 1:25:13
  them? And we'll we'll see.
• 1:25:16
  We can talk to it at the end and kind of see if it makes sense,
• 1:25:19
  try and make sense. But anyways, but I'm just saying
• 1:25:22
  like it. There's more threads than just
• 1:25:24
  eh, charismatic guy. He gets a bunch of people and
• 1:25:27
  then brings them to South America.
• 1:25:28
  There's there's so many more kind of weird treads to this
• 1:25:32
  that kind of it's the it's the most, eh, kind of interwoven
• 1:25:37
  conspiracies like this even goes like kind of a little bit madder
• 1:25:42
  than guys being like, oh, Flat Earth.
• 1:25:44
  And now there's a hollow work. Now there's lizards living in
• 1:25:46
  the earth. You know, this one actually is a
• 1:25:49
  kind of a CIA conspiracy. That makes so much sense.
• 1:25:54
  The more you pull it, there's real threads.
• 1:25:56
  Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's not that there's nothing
• 1:25:58
  kind of paranormal about it. It's all very kind of, eh, like
• 1:26:03
  fact based of fact. Yeah.
• 1:26:05
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:26:07
  Sorry again that that was before another big detour.
• 1:26:09
  No no your friend. Before we move on though I do
• 1:26:11
  have to say when you said puritan pod all I can think of
• 1:26:13
  is like 3 Puritans with a podcast and it's killing me.
• 1:26:18
  Irish think that would be the funniest thing.
• 1:26:20
  Like I read the Bible today, I also read the Bible today.
• 1:26:23
  Yeah. It was good.
• 1:26:25
  My wife is a whore. I also think that my wife is a
• 1:26:28
  whore. My underwear.
• 1:26:30
  I'm not gay, I'm not Jesus. How do you?
• 1:26:33
  My wife. Didn't start my bloomers
• 1:26:35
  correctly so I'm hanging her in the morning.
• 1:26:38
  Should we hang Agnes? I accuse goody bad wife.
• 1:26:46
  Goody bad wife, goody bad. Yeah, I.
• 1:26:54
  Know. Yeah, I got it.
• 1:26:54
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:26:56
  He's goody bad wife. It's like, you know you're here
• 1:27:00
  to eat our kids. It's like their kid.
• 1:27:03
  We were just going to swipe their shoes but their children
• 1:27:09
  song which anyway, so Jim was again so fucking into his drugs
• 1:27:15
  at this point that he would rant over the loudspeaker system
• 1:27:19
  24/7, keeping everyone in a state of sleep deprived
• 1:27:23
  paranoia. So he would also, and this is I
• 1:27:26
  left these this out of the notes, but he would preach from
• 1:27:33
  imagination at this point. Jesus was so fucking yeah he.
• 1:27:39
  Was so fucking high. And he was giving essentially
• 1:27:43
  the news from back home, but he was imagining the state of
• 1:27:48
  America at this time and what could possibly be going on in
• 1:27:51
  America. He got big into his nuclear
• 1:27:54
  Holocaust. So like his his fear mongering
• 1:27:58
  now was that there? And a good reason why they're in
• 1:28:03
  South America is because he said they were protected by the
• 1:28:05
  mountains and stuff like that. Umm, it's the same place you
• 1:28:09
  could be when the nuclear Holocaust comes.
• 1:28:11
  So like when nuclear, nuclear, it's pronounced nuclear.
• 1:28:17
  Umm, so but when the uh, so you can, you can imagine like the
• 1:28:22
  Cold War is uh, ramping up and the threat of a nuclear fallout
• 1:28:29
  is imminent around the world, so.
• 1:28:31
  Hanging over using this. Yes.
• 1:28:33
  So he was using this and telling them that America was the wrong
• 1:28:38
  place to be like and their ideals don't their their ideals
• 1:28:43
  actually matched up more with Russia.
• 1:28:46
  So he was saying that they needed to get out of America
• 1:28:49
  anyways, but they didn't want to go to Russia because it was
• 1:28:54
  going to be unsafe for them to go to Russia as well.
• 1:28:56
  But he said they had ties with Russia and Russia was kind of
• 1:28:59
  their fail safe as well. Like what?
• 1:29:01
  When all goes S, they're going to all to Russia when he ends up
• 1:29:06
  going a plane and and fucking the whole shebang.
• 1:29:09
  And he was like, we're going to get hundreds of people on this
• 1:29:12
  John board yet and we're going to fly to Russia.
• 1:29:15
  And if that doesn't workout, we all kill ourselves.
• 1:29:17
  But they cannot. We're going to go to Russia.
• 1:29:19
  But yeah, again, the new, the nuclear threat was the big one,
• 1:29:23
  was the was the one he was hanging over everybody.
• 1:29:26
  To go back to like what you were saying about him having people
• 1:29:31
  kind of, I guess, dependent on him and not able to leave, like
• 1:29:34
  with Marceline, who like basically just hitched her wagon
• 1:29:37
  and couldn't go. In a sense it it's kind of
• 1:29:42
  happened with his followers here, but only because he
• 1:29:44
  literally confiscated everyone's passports so no one could leave
• 1:29:48
  with their passports. And they also were told that
• 1:29:51
  like, their flights back to the US would not be paid for and now
• 1:29:56
  they had to give all of their money.
• 1:29:58
  To Jim. Yeah, yeah, at.
• 1:30:01
  This point they had stockpiled. Like a massive amount of
• 1:30:04
  weapons, yeah. But this?
• 1:30:05
  Is in the in the very beginning. Before they said, yeah, yeah,
• 1:30:09
  before this had happened, the Bible, the not the Bibles, the
• 1:30:12
  passports were taken away straight away.
• 1:30:15
  And that, like everything was, was like that.
• 1:30:17
  Came to the Bibles and things like that.
• 1:30:19
  He this again, what you're saying is absolutely a spot on.
• 1:30:24
  Like it is it's all control. But that that was even an
• 1:30:28
  overkill because he he already had them there and the only way
• 1:30:33
  you could get to like the airfield was there was one Rd.
• 1:30:38
  the airfield and he had them told that Guyanese government eh
• 1:30:42
  are going to are going to shoot anybody who tries to leave this
• 1:30:45
  place because eh they're eh defector or whatever he did like
• 1:30:50
  he had a great relationship with the Guyanese government.
• 1:30:53
  We never told the people that told him that, like this is our
• 1:30:56
  sovereign piece of land, which also was a lie because he was
• 1:30:59
  renting the land for, eh, because the Guyanese government
• 1:31:02
  wouldn't sell him the land because they were afraid he was
• 1:31:04
  going to make a a sovereign state, a Vatican City kind of
• 1:31:07
  situation. Well, he had told people they're
• 1:31:09
  going to get shot and the only other place they could go was to
• 1:31:13
  the jungle. And he's like, you're the jungle
• 1:31:14
  is sudden death like in California or Indiana.
• 1:31:17
  Yeah, like if these people left, they could jump in a car and get
• 1:31:21
  hitchhike, go to the next town. But in in his place, yeah,
• 1:31:25
  you're going to fucking Anaconda country.
• 1:31:27
  Isolation, yeah. This is it.
• 1:31:29
  Exactly it. Now, there was a train station
• 1:31:32
  somewhere South of this place, apparently.
• 1:31:34
  But like, no, nobody knew this. Nobody knew that there was any
• 1:31:37
  kind of. I mean, he's as far as they
• 1:31:39
  knew, they were all just in the jungle.
• 1:31:41
  And that's it, Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:31:43
  And then as well, like they monitored all of their letters
• 1:31:48
  to their family and stuff back home.
• 1:31:51
  And you have to be like nothing but complimentary to eh
• 1:31:55
  Jonestown and everything else. Like no complaints, nothing like
• 1:31:58
  that. Like the slightest complaint,
• 1:32:00
  the letter wouldn't be sent and you'd be punished for sending
• 1:32:03
  it. But basically, and I know I say
• 1:32:05
  this every time and on every episode, North Korea,
• 1:32:08
  everything's sunny all the time, always.
• 1:32:10
  It's it was basically like that. Control Yeah, it's how do you,
• 1:32:14
  the only thing is you had this place, eh, sorry.
• 1:32:17
  But like The funny thing about this place is that this was a
• 1:32:22
  paradise to the first people who settled there.
• 1:32:25
  So he sent down like about I think 100 people.
• 1:32:30
  His son was one of them that went down and they got in there.
• 1:32:33
  It was tough. They were working hard, but they
• 1:32:36
  were building this place. They built umm, uh, like a
• 1:32:39
  Medical Center or there was later there was a probably a
• 1:32:42
  good Medical Center there. Apparently a again, suspicious
• 1:32:45
  book. They were, they all got in there
• 1:32:48
  and they worked, but they were all watching movies, They were
• 1:32:51
  singing songs. It was all kumbaya.
• 1:32:55
  And everything was, yeah, absolutely wonderful because
• 1:32:57
  they had come down here and again, they were kind of living
• 1:33:01
  what the original idea of this best was, what the.
• 1:33:05
  Promise was, yeah. Yes, like a community, eh,
• 1:33:09
  again, he didn't use the word communist.
• 1:33:12
  He used the word community all the time.
• 1:33:15
  So like this is the idea was that eh, they were down there
• 1:33:17
  and they were actually living this stream.
• 1:33:19
  They were kind of having this eh, lovely time where everybody
• 1:33:23
  was happy. And it's when Jim Jones arrived
• 1:33:25
  and he was like, OK, let's get some armed men, eh, up here.
• 1:33:29
  And eh, he, he did stage. Did did you see this one where
• 1:33:34
  he staged eh a shooting against himself?
• 1:33:38
  So like again, it was this. Was I did say that, yeah.
• 1:33:40
  So, yeah, so this is one of the more extreme versions of the,
• 1:33:45
  eh, the kind of Fate heater stuff that he was doing.
• 1:33:48
  So he staged, eh, that someone came up with a gun, shot him in
• 1:33:54
  the belly, and he went down bloat everywhere, right?
• 1:33:57
  Fucking yeah. So he got dragged off and a
• 1:34:02
  couple of hours later he came back out with the shirt.
• 1:34:07
  Over the load. Ripped over.
• 1:34:08
  Yeah. And he had healed himself.
• 1:34:10
  And the audience was oh, God, exactly, exactly.
• 1:34:16
  And the audience was like, Oh my God, we, we, this is exactly, Oh
• 1:34:19
  my God, is exactly what I was. It's not about Jesus anymore.
• 1:34:22
  It's about him. We saw, yeah, they, they would
• 1:34:24
  have been like, we saw him get shot, yeah.
• 1:34:27
  Carrie needs a fuck to bring that back to AS as we do on
• 1:34:32
  every episode. The Righteous Gemstones is a
• 1:34:36
  huge kind of like a huge part of that as well.
• 1:34:39
  It is just fucking showmanship and it's like, and they would do
• 1:34:44
  fucking crazy shit like that as well.
• 1:34:46
  Like baby Billy's Bible, baby Billy's Bible, bonkers.
• 1:34:52
  I can never say it had all of that crazy shit like that.
• 1:34:55
  He had all those like fucking like faith healers who sell in
• 1:34:57
  his Bibles for like or like this is this is going to cure.
• 1:35:00
  This is going to protect, prevent you from getting COVID
• 1:35:02
  2995. And it's just like a bottle of
• 1:35:05
  water. Like it's just fucking like
• 1:35:06
  crazy stuff. These blessed masks.
• 1:35:10
  It is. We're going to see it when, when
• 1:35:13
  Ocean gets into the, uh, the fucking, uh, these new age
• 1:35:19
  evangelists when we get them. Yeah.
• 1:35:21
  So, yeah, when we get there and you get to the supercharge
• 1:35:24
  churches and all that kind. So for people are now literally
• 1:35:27
  just paying for prayers. You can't even see them.
• 1:35:29
  Like, eh, but it's, it's like that's exactly what he was
• 1:35:34
  doing. And what you're talking about,
• 1:35:35
  Danny, is what the gemstones kind of, eh, make fun of and
• 1:35:38
  that they they're kind of lampoon at.
• 1:35:41
  But The funny thing is, it's not that far away like that.
• 1:35:45
  Satire isn't that far away from the truth.
• 1:35:47
  So like. No, it's not.
• 1:35:49
  Pretty much like it. Is yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:51
  When, when you have the likes of Jim Jones, they're like, and
• 1:35:54
  being able to get shot and then tell people that he healed
• 1:35:57
  himself. Like right now, like, we will
• 1:36:01
  say we could, we could watch that.
• 1:36:02
  And objectively, we would say this is bullshit, but we're
• 1:36:05
  watching what's happening in America and like, not just
• 1:36:09
  American, like all over the world, but particularly in
• 1:36:12
  America right now where people are being fooled by what's
• 1:36:15
  they're seeing with their own eyes.
• 1:36:16
  Like the likes of this thing ice stuff like where there's guys
• 1:36:19
  getting shot in the back nine times and people are like, well,
• 1:36:24
  you saw it. He came out and shouldn't have
• 1:36:26
  gone. As for your.
• 1:36:27
  Old lady she shouldn't have met off like.
• 1:36:29
  That and then like, yeah, well, like, again, like you shoot a,
• 1:36:33
  you, you shoot a woman in the side of the head as she's
• 1:36:35
  driving in the opposite direction of you.
• 1:36:37
  And you can still, eh, yeah, you can still tell people, domestic
• 1:36:41
  terrorists what happened packing ice.
• 1:36:43
  Yeah. And then people are going to
• 1:36:45
  believe it, even they see it with their own eyes and they
• 1:36:46
  still believe it. So you can imagine what can
• 1:36:49
  happen in the 60s, eh, or sorry, the early 70s and, and eh, like
• 1:36:55
  this guy who has got you convinced, he's convinced you to
• 1:36:57
  move to Guyana #1 and fucking like, oh, sticks your whole
• 1:37:02
  fucking life with the promise of this wonderful fucking life and
• 1:37:06
  this everlasting fucking there kind of church that he's after
• 1:37:09
  making. And then you see him heal
• 1:37:12
  himself from a gunshot wound and you're like, Oh my God, I am in
• 1:37:15
  like anything. That's my mind blowing.
• 1:37:17
  I am fucking following. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:20
  Sorry again. I just derailed again.
• 1:37:24
  It's not it's it's all on the same topic.
• 1:37:25
  It doesn't care. I.
• 1:37:26
  Know, I know, I know, but I'm just, I'm, I'm just that there's
• 1:37:29
  so, so many different avenues that you can go when learning
• 1:37:33
  about this. It's just it's it's hard to kind
• 1:37:36
  of just keep it to like here's here's what happened.
• 1:37:39
  There's a lot more kind of like every time you scratch a sore,
• 1:37:43
  you can see it's infested underneath it.
• 1:37:45
  Yeah. Yes, yeah.
• 1:37:47
  Umm, so again, this one, I could go into a bunch of information
• 1:37:50
  about this for time. It's very brief, but umm, in
• 1:37:54
  November 1978, Congressman Leo Ryan flew to Guyana to
• 1:37:59
  investigate rumors of abuse. Umm, which a Congress to send a
• 1:38:04
  congressman is taking it very, very seriously.
• 1:38:08
  Umm, which is one thing I'll say because at this point they had
• 1:38:12
  actually received sneaky letters from the family.
• 1:38:15
  So they would go into the local village quite a lot.
• 1:38:18
  They made a lot of money from like I think they made toys and
• 1:38:21
  things like that that they would then sell in the local villages
• 1:38:26
  and they managed to sneak letters to the locals.
• 1:38:30
  Obviously this got back to the states.
• 1:38:32
  Umm more and more families were receiving these letters.
• 1:38:35
  They were talking out about it. They were going to newspapers,
• 1:38:38
  they were going to like news stations and stuff.
• 1:38:40
  So word did start to get around a little bit.
• 1:38:43
  Umm and then they sent me all. Right here that that get Ryan
• 1:38:46
  here and it's AI don't know if you went down the the route of
• 1:38:50
  the stones. There's this family called the
• 1:38:53
  stones. And what had happened was Tim
• 1:38:56
  Stone is the the main guy and he's the guy that kind of he
• 1:39:00
  unravels this whole thing. So he was able to leave when he
• 1:39:03
  came on board, he was kind of given a little bit more freedom
• 1:39:07
  than the the rest of the people and his wife adjoined with their
• 1:39:11
  son. And when he got his wife
• 1:39:15
  pregnant and they had the son, Jim Jones was able to convince
• 1:39:19
  this guy Stone that he was going to be the father of the child.
• 1:39:23
  So he signed over the rights, his child and Jim Jones is now
• 1:39:29
  the father of this child and the guy.
• 1:39:33
  So Storm became disillusioned by this whole thing and and he left
• 1:39:39
  and he was like, I'm taking my eh, I'm taking my kid.
• 1:39:44
  And he was like, it's actually not your kid, It's my kid.
• 1:39:47
  And so you're going to have to leave the kid.
• 1:39:49
  Here he goes. I'm going to let you leave,
• 1:39:50
  which is very unusual that, but he kind of did all this because
• 1:39:54
  this stone guy, I think was umm, I'm not quite sure whether he
• 1:39:59
  was a lawyer or something along the lines.
• 1:40:02
  Maybe he was a journalist. I'm not, I'm not sure.
• 1:40:04
  And he might have. Eh, he was, he was working as
• 1:40:08
  like APR representative. So like people who kind of had a
• 1:40:12
  bit of high status in the real world who Jim Jones brought in,
• 1:40:16
  he'd keep them a little bit high status among.
• 1:40:19
  You know, in his inner circle and he'd give them a little bit
• 1:40:21
  more eh kind of they they weren't just living on these
• 1:40:24
  basic rations. They also exactly so these
• 1:40:27
  people who were useful, who would have had like a means to
• 1:40:31
  eh bring the church openly mobile and but it turns out that
• 1:40:37
  he eh again, eh Jim Jones for all the people that he did fuck
• 1:40:41
  men, women, everybody. He didn't actually have any kind
• 1:40:45
  of relations with this. Eh, I think was is a Marcia
• 1:40:49
  Stone. I'm not.
• 1:40:49
  I'm again, I'm not sure on the name.
• 1:40:51
  Actually. This is my worst thing.
• 1:40:53
  Eh, no, that was his. That was his wife.
• 1:40:56
  Yeah, his wife. Sorry, I'm not so Mrs. Stone.
• 1:41:00
  I don't know if I probably should just Google it now.
• 1:41:02
  But and anyways, he never actually like he wasn't wait he
• 1:41:06
  didn't have any relationship or horrible.
• 1:41:07
  He was just like I should be the father of this child.
• 1:41:11
  So he signed over the rights. So the, the, the child was now
• 1:41:15
  legally Jim Jones's child and Mrs. Thorn's child.
• 1:41:20
  So when he left, he said, I want to take my child and my wife
• 1:41:22
  with me. And he was like, that's an all
• 1:41:24
  go. This is my child.
• 1:41:25
  You can leave, but you're not taking the child.
• 1:41:28
  And that's why he kind of he left.
• 1:41:31
  And I think his wife and the child stayed.
• 1:41:33
  And Jim Jones was kind of, he really took an attachment to
• 1:41:38
  this kids Fuck. I have to listen to so many
• 1:41:42
  hours of this, and I can't remember the kid's name, but
• 1:41:46
  the, the kid, let's call him Little Stone.
• 1:41:49
  So Little Stone Pebble. Kind of.
• 1:41:53
  Yeah. So the Pebble came.
• 1:41:55
  Jim Jones's kind of little kind of fucking protege.
• 1:41:59
  Like he was still like a small child, but like, he, he loved
• 1:42:02
  having him around. He was, he treated him like his
• 1:42:04
  his son. And when Stone went back to
• 1:42:08
  America, he tried to kind of get in contact with some people and
• 1:42:15
  everybody kind of led him to this Ryan, this Congressman
• 1:42:19
  Ryan, because apparently this guy was, he was fucking, he was
• 1:42:24
  the real deal, this guy, he was the man.
• 1:42:28
  So when he wanted to, eh, figure out he was like an undercover
• 1:42:32
  boss. So when, when he was trying to
• 1:42:35
  figure out what was going wrong with this prison system, eh,
• 1:42:38
  back where he was, I forget is it Kentucky or I forget where
• 1:42:42
  the fuck he was. And he has umm, I'm sorry, I am
• 1:42:45
  the worst, but he went undercover in the prison to
• 1:42:50
  figure out where the corruption was and what was going on.
• 1:42:53
  So he was in put himself as an inmate in there.
• 1:42:55
  That's badass and. He's done this in Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:42:57
  So he was absolutely like this guy stood on business every
• 1:43:01
  fucking time. And there was there was other
• 1:43:03
  cases where he was trying to eh, figure out corruption in eh
• 1:43:07
  different kind of eh, government entities and he would put
• 1:43:10
  himself lighting the fire line in there and he didn't give a
• 1:43:14
  solitary fuck. So when people said, listen,
• 1:43:18
  you've got to look into these, this cultist Jim Jones called
• 1:43:21
  down in Jones Town, eh, he's abusing people, he's abusing his
• 1:43:26
  power. There's children that are
• 1:43:28
  getting eh like beaten. And again, we haven't gone into
• 1:43:31
  it, but like the kids there got their shit kicked out of them.
• 1:43:35
  Even some adults did like like he he kind of had fight clubs
• 1:43:40
  where is if anybody pissed them off, he'd make them fist fight
• 1:43:43
  each other and sometimes like to have you have this little
• 1:43:47
  Coliseum for himself where he'd have 5 people versus 1.
• 1:43:50
  Go Unchained. Yes, like, yeah, exactly.
• 1:43:53
  He'd have guys a bit racist and because they were all black, but
• 1:43:57
  it was that, like they were not. But most of the guys he was
• 1:44:02
  doing this, they were black. Again, no black people in his
• 1:44:04
  inner circle, all white people again.
• 1:44:07
  Yeah, just so we're clear on this one.
• 1:44:09
  He was using, of course, the black people, using a disabled
• 1:44:13
  people and using old people for money, for labor, for all this,
• 1:44:18
  eh, kind of stuff. But again, he was gone
• 1:44:21
  absolutely fucking haywire at this stage.
• 1:44:22
  He was stealing children and keeping them as his own.
• 1:44:25
  And this kind of that unraveled. So this Stone guy went to Ryan,
• 1:44:30
  a Congressman Ryan, and he told him, Congressman Ryan got in
• 1:44:34
  contact with some journalists and that's when they said we've
• 1:44:37
  got to go down there to Johnstown and see what's
• 1:44:39
  actually happening. Yeah, again, sorry.
• 1:44:41
  To see why it's like, yeah. Sorry to have gone yeah deeper
• 1:44:43
  with this one. Well, again, I think these these
• 1:44:46
  this family stone they are into they're like this this this
• 1:44:51
  whole thing is kind of the unraveling of the whole thing.
• 1:44:53
  This one kid who yes, if they just let him go home or kept
• 1:44:58
  that guy him stolen there that none of this would have
• 1:45:01
  happened. So it's the, I kind of think
• 1:45:04
  this is kind of a big, eh, piece of the puzzle as well.
• 1:45:08
  Sure. So while Leo was there, then
• 1:45:10
  everybody was kind of on their best behaviors.
• 1:45:12
  Like we love it here, it's great.
• 1:45:14
  We love fucking peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches, we love
• 1:45:16
  rice. Like what's not to love?
• 1:45:19
  Umm And everyone was kind of just singing his praises, but as
• 1:45:22
  Leo. Was literally putting on a show,
• 1:45:25
  eh? So they when they got down
• 1:45:26
  there, they they put on an actual concert.
• 1:45:28
  Like very North Korean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:45:30
  Everyone was singing and dancing and kumbaya again.
• 1:45:33
  Yeah. Yep.
• 1:45:35
  And then as Leo was leaving, they were like, no, fucking take
• 1:45:37
  us with you, please. Like and they were, they were
• 1:45:39
  just telling him everything. They were like, it's horrible
• 1:45:40
  here. It's fucking like awful.
• 1:45:43
  Basically just shouting everything.
• 1:45:44
  Adam as he was leaving. And then as they headed to the
• 1:45:48
  airstrip, gym security team, who he called the Red Brigade
• 1:45:52
  followed them. And because he did try to
• 1:45:56
  smuggle out a couple of people with him.
• 1:45:58
  He did. He had a couple of people in the
• 1:46:00
  car with him, Yeah. Yeah, and they opened fire,
• 1:46:03
  killing the congressman, three members of the press, and one
• 1:46:06
  defecting church member. And so just like as a, as a
• 1:46:10
  parallel to 2025 and 2026, the, there are several congressmen
• 1:46:17
  and congresswomen who have tried to go to ICE detention centres
• 1:46:20
  to get in to document what's going on.
• 1:46:21
  And they're trying to use their position as a congressperson,
• 1:46:24
  just like Leo Ryan did. And ICE are keeping them out.
• 1:46:27
  They're preventing them from going in, which is illegal.
• 1:46:30
  Like Congress people have a legal right to enter facilities
• 1:46:33
  like this so that they can see if there are human rights and
• 1:46:37
  crimes being committed. And ICE are stopping them from
• 1:46:39
  going in. So like you have this guy, Leo
• 1:46:42
  Ryan is a rock star. Like he's such an inspiration.
• 1:46:46
  And like people, people in 25 and 26 are are trying to emulate
• 1:46:50
  what he did. Leo, the Lion, Ryan is what they
• 1:46:53
  call them. Jim knew that the US military
• 1:46:56
  would come for him after a fucking congressman was murdered
• 1:47:00
  and he called a final meeting and told people that soldiers
• 1:47:03
  were coming to take the children and slaughter the seniors.
• 1:47:06
  And that's how you get people, right?
• 1:47:07
  Kids and all people. That's how you fucking get
• 1:47:09
  people. Before I, I do want to say this
• 1:47:12
  before he actually did the whole kool-aid thing.
• 1:47:16
  He'd done this before, right? He had wheeled out of that.
• 1:47:20
  Yes, I was going to get into that, yeah.
• 1:47:22
  Yeah, of, of basically like fucking poison.
• 1:47:26
  And explained, Oh yeah, it's going to be a peaceful death.
• 1:47:28
  There's going to be no pain. You have to drink it.
• 1:47:30
  You'll wake up in heaven. Like, you know, if you believe
• 1:47:33
  whatever. And people all believed him and
• 1:47:36
  then they like they drank it. And then obviously nothing
• 1:47:38
  happened. And he was like, you didn't
• 1:47:40
  drink anything. That was a test.
• 1:47:42
  And everyone was like, of course he would test us.
• 1:47:45
  Bravo. Like, amazing.
• 1:47:46
  Yeah. That's what.
• 1:47:46
  That's what God was. Just the most drugged up thing
• 1:47:49
  ever. It's like I'm going to make, I'm
• 1:47:50
  going to do a test run. I'm going to see if they believe
• 1:47:52
  me, and if they don't, I'm going to kill him.
• 1:47:54
  Yeah, well. I, I do think that all of this
• 1:47:57
  the, the kind of test runs on there your drinking eh poison or
• 1:48:02
  the a portion is what they call it.
• 1:48:05
  Eh, all these test runs was to lead up to like they won't know
• 1:48:08
  what are they are or they aren't because like the first time he
• 1:48:11
  did it was when they were back in America and it was very
• 1:48:16
  unusual because he wouldn't let them.
• 1:48:18
  He wouldn't let them drink, obviously, eh, to, to drink
• 1:48:21
  alcohol, like you let your inhibitions go and stuff like
• 1:48:24
  that. So to control them, he wasn't
• 1:48:26
  allowing them to drink alcohol. But then there was one night
• 1:48:28
  where he was saying they're having a celebration and that
• 1:48:31
  everybody, because he was after a making some kind of a deal
• 1:48:35
  with a politician back in California, and he said time for
• 1:48:40
  a celebration. So he had his inner circle and a
• 1:48:44
  bunch of people in one big room where he was like, we're going
• 1:48:48
  to celebrate tonight. We're drinking.
• 1:48:50
  And everybody was so fucking happy.
• 1:48:52
  They were like, yes. And they all got very merry and
• 1:48:54
  they all were knocking back to drink.
• 1:48:56
  And then he got very sombre and very serious and said, listen
• 1:49:00
  up. Everybody went silent.
• 1:49:02
  The man was talking. He said, you've all been
• 1:49:04
  poisoned. I put cyanide in the drinks, he
• 1:49:08
  said. And eh, in the within the next
• 1:49:11
  hour, we're all going to be dead.
• 1:49:14
  And so that was the first time, like, and he sat there for like,
• 1:49:20
  I think people said it was a couple of hours.
• 1:49:22
  And then like he had some of his inner circle at that stage.
• 1:49:26
  He had them pretend that they were getting feeling sick and,
• 1:49:30
  you know, like they were putting on like these.
• 1:49:31
  Nerds acting it out. Exactly.
• 1:49:33
  And apparently some of them were very bad at the acting.
• 1:49:36
  And someone ran for the door and they were stopped by the the his
• 1:49:41
  guards at the time. He wasn't calling them the Red
• 1:49:43
  Brigade at the time, but his guards stopped them and said,
• 1:49:46
  no, you have to take this with dignity.
• 1:49:48
  And everybody in there was afraid that we're dying now.
• 1:49:51
  And after about an hour, he stood up and went, you got your
• 1:49:55
  bitches. And no, he, he was like, I that
• 1:50:00
  was a test just to see how would you die with dignity.
• 1:50:06
  He kept calling this, say, the way they were going to die.
• 1:50:08
  And what was the, the, the coalesce revolutionary suicide,
• 1:50:13
  which he had kind of stolen off the Black Panthers.
• 1:50:16
  So the Black Panthers and he'd stole it and use it in a totally
• 1:50:20
  different way, not talking. Original, It's not an original
• 1:50:23
  thought or anything in his head. Like just just a fucking fraud.
• 1:50:26
  Just literally like just a fucking fraud of a man.
• 1:50:30
  Like through and through. Umm, in regards to like ideas.
• 1:50:34
  Yeah, so the, the, the, the Black Panthers, the way they
• 1:50:36
  would use it was like that. We, you have to fight for your
• 1:50:38
  cause and you might die. Yeah.
• 1:50:41
  So that's what revolutionary suicide is.
• 1:50:44
  We're going to fight. And if you you fight and you die
• 1:50:47
  for your 'cause that's a revolutionary suicide.
• 1:50:50
  But Jim Jones kept using it to be like, revolutionary suicide
• 1:50:54
  is that we're all going to kill ourselves, eh?
• 1:50:56
  Because that's, you know, yeah. It was like it was anybody come?
• 1:50:59
  Near us for a term. For all of them exactly as that.
• 1:51:02
  So this is where this is where umm, where I was saying earlier
• 1:51:06
  on about he gets very eh, if you take away my toys and want to
• 1:51:10
  hold my breath because he his the suicide thing now becomes
• 1:51:14
  the threat all the time. So like, as you said, Danny,
• 1:51:18
  yeah, he was already tricking them like the first time while
• 1:51:21
  that I was explaining was just one time of many where he
• 1:51:24
  actually got them to sit down and drink and ingest a drink
• 1:51:28
  where he was telling them was less for poison just so he could
• 1:51:31
  condition them at the sea. And every time he was saying,
• 1:51:34
  haha, that's eh, it's not real. They got conditioned a little
• 1:51:39
  bit more and more to realize a little.
• 1:51:41
  Bit. Yeah.
• 1:51:41
  So, yeah, OK. So yeah, every time I drink
• 1:51:44
  this, it could be a minority. Yes, yeah.
• 1:51:47
  So again, when we get it, when we get to the point of he's
• 1:51:51
  going to make them actually drink this, do some of them
• 1:51:54
  think that this is just another test?
• 1:51:56
  I'm wondering. Yeah, because, yeah.
• 1:51:59
  And, and we'll get to that because, like, again, 909 people
• 1:52:04
  died here after drinking that. So they like, I mean, I think
• 1:52:08
  the ones who anyway, we'll get to it.
• 1:52:11
  So he told them it was time to drink the potion and which was
• 1:52:15
  Flavor Aid, not Kool-aid fun. Fact.
• 1:52:17
  Kool-aid the big lolly of them all.
• 1:52:21
  Yeah, Flavor Aid was the like the fucking ALDI equivalent or
• 1:52:26
  is it? What was the?
• 1:52:27
  Guy used to jump through the wall and go Oh no, oh.
• 1:52:32
  No. Oh, maybe.
• 1:52:38
  What was the coke back in the day that we had growing up in
• 1:52:42
  Ireland? It's a.
• 1:52:44
  Capricola, Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:52:48
  Basically it was cadet. It wasn't go with all.
• 1:52:50
  It was cadet color. They brought it back, did they?
• 1:52:53
  Yeah, They they brought it back. And like, people are making a
• 1:52:56
  big deal about it like that. It's like our childhood is back.
• 1:53:00
  I would drink the fuck out of a cadet right now.
• 1:53:02
  And so I know he called it a revolutionary act.
• 1:53:07
  Wait, completely skipped that. This, this, this potion had
• 1:53:10
  cyanide. It was just cadet cola.
• 1:53:15
  Guys, fine. People were crying, some were
• 1:53:19
  begging to be let go, but the security team with guns made
• 1:53:22
  sure that they stayed and held. They basically held guns to
• 1:53:26
  their heads and made them drink, which it's like you're going to
• 1:53:29
  die either way, I'll just take the gun.
• 1:53:31
  That's fine. It was all caught on a 45 minute
• 1:53:36
  death tape That is honestly the most horrifying thing you'll
• 1:53:39
  ever hear. Now you can find this online.
• 1:53:42
  This is very easily found online.
• 1:53:45
  If you're like me, go with go have a look.
• 1:53:49
  It's if you're not, if you can't stomach it, don't do that to
• 1:53:53
  yourself. It is very.
• 1:53:56
  Oh. It's.
• 1:53:57
  Very tough. Listen, yeah, yeah.
• 1:53:58
  Like, you know, because The thing is, I think even though he
• 1:54:01
  had been testing them and he had done all these, like, dry runs,
• 1:54:04
  I think a lot of the people, like, I think they knew what was
• 1:54:08
  like something bad was definitely happening because
• 1:54:11
  they had just seen, OK, a congressman has come down here,
• 1:54:14
  that's bad. He then tried to get over here
• 1:54:16
  really quickly with a bunch of people that's bad.
• 1:54:18
  And they've killed that guy that's really bad.
• 1:54:22
  And now he's like, oh, look, the American military are coming for
• 1:54:25
  us and they're going to gun us down.
• 1:54:27
  So we're going to take control. We're going to drink our our
• 1:54:31
  cyanide flavor aid. And, you know, like, I think I
• 1:54:35
  would imagine a lot of them were just in a total panic because
• 1:54:37
  they were like, fuck, we're we're going to get, we're
• 1:54:39
  actually going to get killed either way here.
• 1:54:41
  Yeah, yeah. This is real now.
• 1:54:43
  And so a lot of them were begging for their lives.
• 1:54:45
  They were, they were like, you know, trying to make deals.
• 1:54:47
  They were trying to get out of there and he would not let them.
• 1:54:50
  He was like, no, this is going one way.
• 1:54:52
  And so they like some of them had to be force fed it as well.
• 1:54:55
  Like, you know, it was, it was really grim.
• 1:54:57
  But there's that the one woman and Miller, I forget her first
• 1:55:02
  name again, I'm I'm Christine, something that I bought.
• 1:55:05
  She stands up and is like, what about Russia?
• 1:55:11
  And you can hear like the the on the tape.
• 1:55:14
  There's the they have the discussion of like, why not?
• 1:55:19
  And then but you can hear the people end up booing her like
• 1:55:24
  off like Boo, let us die. Like, you know, it's kind of,
• 1:55:28
  it's really weird. His followers are like, so.
• 1:55:30
  Yeah, so like. It's a little bit agitated by
• 1:55:34
  this woman, so like, it's like he, he says.
• 1:55:36
  You've always been someone who has a who has questioned me and,
• 1:55:43
  you know, he goes, I really like that.
• 1:55:44
  I really like that you're an agitator.
• 1:55:46
  You know, the way he was talking was kind of.
• 1:55:48
  Yeah, he. Again, he always spun it like
• 1:55:51
  and even back to this, yes, he was gaslighting her and the
• 1:55:55
  people like and eh so she was saying.
• 1:55:58
  I love you. And she's like, oh, you love me?
• 1:56:00
  Like, yeah, it's like, yeah, he was just.
• 1:56:03
  Yeah. But again, like he was it was he
• 1:56:05
  was using like this backhanded compliment to her to like, you
• 1:56:09
  know, but he was still like nodding to the people about like
• 1:56:13
  this he. Was still manipulated.
• 1:56:14
  You hear this bitch? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:56:16
  So like that he was, he got people on board to kind of take
• 1:56:22
  to hush her, even though what she was saying was the most
• 1:56:27
  logical thing she said. You've got a plan.
• 1:56:29
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you've got the plan.
• 1:56:32
  You said we have a code word to get us to Russia.
• 1:56:36
  You've got hundreds of children, She said.
• 1:56:39
  Why not just the children? We can play.
• 1:56:42
  He goes, The children are the ones they're gonna use.
• 1:56:44
  The children are the children are the ones they're that, that
• 1:56:48
  they're that are most at risk here.
• 1:56:51
  And he goes, I did have Russia. He goes, if it was as simple as
• 1:56:55
  that, you know, I'd have us. We'll all be in Russia right now
• 1:56:57
  if it was as simple as that. But it's too late for Russia.
• 1:57:00
  They've gone. And the way he explained that as
• 1:57:02
  well, someone has gone and killed that congressman.
• 1:57:05
  I did not tell them to do it. It's not under my orders.
• 1:57:08
  But I but somebody has gone and done it.
• 1:57:10
  And now we must pay the price. And the way he doesn't have
• 1:57:15
  culpability for anything so that he's still kind of telling the
• 1:57:19
  audience, just follow me, follow me, follow me.
• 1:57:23
  And yeah, this woman ends up getting like booed off fucking
• 1:57:26
  stage and she ends up having to sit down and like, these are
• 1:57:29
  people that have children. Like they're ruined that this
• 1:57:34
  woman so that they can go and kill their children and then
• 1:57:37
  themselves and her. Argument is just let the kids go
• 1:57:40
  like it's mental that they're she.
• 1:57:42
  Sounds so. Blinded.
• 1:57:45
  Yeah, it's weird. I I'm listening to this woman.
• 1:57:46
  I'm like, how did you end up in this fucking cult?
• 1:57:48
  Because you seem to like you have a brain like.
• 1:57:51
  Yeah. I mean, a lot of people who tend
• 1:57:54
  to to wind up in cults just don't have anything else like
• 1:57:59
  anything going for them. And it is just even just for a
• 1:58:02
  second, the sense of having that community is what pulls them
• 1:58:05
  into it. That's.
• 1:58:06
  Suppose I mean, yeah. And it's the loneliness, like
• 1:58:08
  she could have just been someone who had nothing, like maybe.
• 1:58:11
  A logical person, but. Still.
• 1:58:12
  She, I think she was, she was actually a fairly successful
• 1:58:16
  woman. I think like, so like I think
• 1:58:17
  for her it was the ideals. So like she was like, she
• 1:58:21
  believed in the 'cause she believed in the, the socialist,
• 1:58:25
  this, this community of integrated socialists.
• 1:58:28
  And she really did believe in the cause.
• 1:58:30
  But she was obviously pushing back against John or Jim Jones
• 1:58:34
  as much as, eh, as as much as possible because he was like
• 1:58:38
  exasperated by the end when he's like, can't we just kill
• 1:58:42
  ourselves without you arguing with me one more time?
• 1:58:45
  You know, this the way he was talking about like it was, it
• 1:58:47
  was kind of like he was just. Head over.
• 1:58:49
  So baby Billy exactly like baby. Billy, to be honest with you, he
• 1:58:54
  does kind of sound like that, but like it's.
• 1:58:58
  Being a pain in my ass. But it is, it is kind of, it is
• 1:59:02
  kind of fucked up the way he's still like gaslight into the
• 1:59:04
  end. But like, yeah, as, as you were
• 1:59:06
  saying now, like you've got this, you've got these death
• 1:59:10
  tapes. And the way he's talking and
• 1:59:12
  he's saying like, come on now, die with some dignity.
• 1:59:16
  This fucker isn't drinking by the way, just so we're all clear
• 1:59:18
  on this. He doesn't drink his fucking
• 1:59:20
  juice. So he's telling people, he's
• 1:59:22
  telling people to uh, to 1st, 1st the kids.
• 1:59:26
  It's like a fucking an airplane emergency.
• 1:59:29
  You have to look after the kids first and then yourselves.
• 1:59:32
  So these there was parents injecting cyanide lace flavored
• 1:59:40
  into their kids mouths by syringe because you know, and
• 1:59:43
  then when you can hear him saying on the death tape as
• 1:59:47
  well, again, I didn't listen to all this fucking death tape, but
• 1:59:49
  like you can, there was points for that.
• 1:59:52
  It was shown the stuff that he was saying, like, and he was
• 1:59:55
  saying things like the children that they're not in any pain.
• 1:59:59
  It's just very bitter. The the the drink is just a very
• 2:00:03
  bitter drink. And yeah, he was kind of making
• 2:00:06
  excuse for these he. Likened it to like taking
• 2:00:08
  medicine as that's exactly. What It was, yeah.
• 2:00:11
  But cyanide, cyanide is such a horrible death as well, which
• 2:00:16
  again, we can get into the the was was all of this cyanide
• 2:00:20
  because like this is one of those things where, like it
• 2:00:22
  constricts your eh, your muscles and so you eh, you arrive in
• 2:00:28
  pain until you die. But again, this this was kind of
• 2:00:32
  a cocktail of like a bunch of they're not volumes, but
• 2:00:37
  whatever the the fucking the equivalent of what back then was
• 2:00:41
  that was like muscle relaxers and pain relief sedatives.
• 2:00:45
  It basically, Yeah. And cyanide as well.
• 2:00:50
  But yeah, it's yeah, Sorry. Go on, go on.
• 2:00:53
  I got a keep fucking digging deep.
• 2:00:55
  Let me just get this this last little paragraph out of the way,
• 2:00:57
  then we'll go back to everything.
• 2:01:00
  So just basically when the troops arrived, they found 909
• 2:01:05
  bodies. The government eventually found
• 2:01:07
  over $7,000,000 hidden in Jim's secret bank accounts.
• 2:01:13
  So just out of curiosity, give me a second.
• 2:01:18
  I just want to see what, 7 million?
• 2:01:21
  In today's in. Today's money.
• 2:01:24
  Thought, let me guess, eh, 900 million?
• 2:01:28
  Let's see, we'll see and say. It's probably like 20 million.
• 2:01:33
  70s no way more has to be more. Might not be lying.
• 2:01:37
  What are we what are we saying? What are we saying?
• 2:01:38
  I'm. Going to say, I'm going to say
• 2:01:41
  $25 million all. Right.
• 2:01:44
  You're way closer than just Yeah, approximately between
• 2:01:50
  37.96 million to 38 million. It's an insane amount of money,
• 2:01:56
  like no, but it's an insane amount of money for like he
• 2:01:58
  because he would like, he would bring just like average people
• 2:02:01
  in. Like he he didn't have like
• 2:02:03
  super rich people. He just had a lot of like
• 2:02:06
  people, you know, normal people with normal jobs.
• 2:02:08
  So again. He's still managed to get all.
• 2:02:10
  That money out. So that's that's another
• 2:02:12
  question as well as how was he getting all this money if it's,
• 2:02:16
  it's can't all be true like the Social Security checks of these
• 2:02:20
  old people, because he doesn't have that many, you know, I
• 2:02:23
  mean, he has a few. Well, he doesn't have that many.
• 2:02:26
  So like the the question is then, does he go into a drug
• 2:02:30
  dealing? Is there gun running?
• 2:02:33
  You know, he's has a bunch of guns himself, but like, was
• 2:02:36
  there like, did he have extracurricular activities?
• 2:02:41
  Was there was there some classic South American crime happening
• 2:02:45
  as well? Basically, it's South America.
• 2:02:47
  You have to question. Yeah, Yeah, you have to
• 2:02:49
  question. I do just, well, we're on the
• 2:02:52
  money, on the money, on the subject of money, and I
• 2:02:58
  mentioned this last week, I've been rewatching the The Crown
• 2:03:01
  lately. And in 1952 when, yeah, I am.
• 2:03:06
  But in 1952, when King George was, was a King George that
• 2:03:09
  abdicated, whatever the king who abdicated, he still would have
• 2:03:12
  gotten his like royal pension, right?
• 2:03:15
  And they talk about it in the show, which was £10,000 a year.
• 2:03:20
  George, is Elizabeth seconds out loud?
• 2:03:23
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:03:25
  And then his brother booked that actress.
• 2:03:29
  We could do a whole fucking episode on that.
• 2:03:31
  But he was fucking this actress who was involved with the Nazis.
• 2:03:34
  All this fucking, these photographs came out, all these
• 2:03:37
  forms and he was in, he was affiliated with the Nazi Party.
• 2:03:39
  Should watch this. It's such a good show.
• 2:03:43
  But anyway, so he was receiving like a £10,000 pension and I was
• 2:03:51
  kind of like, what is that? Because the £10,000 a year is
• 2:03:53
  not, it's not a lot like. And then I was like, what is
• 2:03:55
  that in today's money? So in 1952, £10,000 in today's
• 2:03:59
  money, that's 373,000 lbs four hundred £373,490.65 today A.
• 2:04:09
  Year. That he was still getting.
• 2:04:12
  I mean, I guess he was like the former fucking king of a
• 2:04:14
  country. So maybe it's not a lot in that
• 2:04:16
  sense. But still.
• 2:04:18
  Basically be like, I mean to basically be like, all right
• 2:04:23
  here, just take this and go away.
• 2:04:25
  And then obviously the cost of living in 1952 is like low as
• 2:04:29
  fuck. But also like he was, he was the
• 2:04:31
  king. He did not have a cost.
• 2:04:33
  Of yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, That was that was
• 2:04:35
  true, that is. True, yeah, like for him to have
• 2:04:38
  to move and then I guess he's paying everything then off that
• 2:04:40
  10 grand and he wanted like an increase in it anyway, let's go
• 2:04:43
  back to this. So watch the show.
• 2:04:45
  And so 7 million in hidden bank accounts.
• 2:04:50
  This was money he had taken from his followers while they were
• 2:04:53
  like, while they were eating a single cookie for dinner.
• 2:04:56
  And he just had all this fucking money lying around.
• 2:04:58
  He could have easily fed the compound 10 times over and like,
• 2:05:02
  yeah, didn't. It remains one of the greatest
• 2:05:04
  losses of American civilian life in history.
• 2:05:08
  Jim started as a kid who just wanted to be loved and ended as
• 2:05:12
  a monster who couldn't let anyone else live if he couldn't
• 2:05:15
  be loved. So it remains one of the
• 2:05:17
  greatest losses of American civilian life in history.
• 2:05:20
  Yeah, was only surpassed by next September the 11th, 2001.
• 2:05:24
  Yes. That was it.
• 2:05:25
  I was going to say what was the next biggest one?
• 2:05:27
  No. Yeah, it's it's always 911.
• 2:05:31
  The answer is always 9. Always not, but it's kind of
• 2:05:34
  like even just yeah. Exactly.
• 2:05:39
  Also, we, we, we, we kind of briefly touched on this and Jim
• 2:05:44
  Jones got everyone to drink the the poison flavourite.
• 2:05:49
  How did he die? It was.
• 2:05:51
  Like he took drugs. I think he just O.
• 2:05:53
  Demons. He shot himself in the head and
• 2:05:57
  he was sitting. I was going to say that, but.
• 2:05:59
  He well, someone shot him in the head, but he was sitting in his
• 2:06:03
  chair on like his pulpit in the center of like the pavilion
• 2:06:07
  that. I hate that word.
• 2:06:09
  But like he had, he like this thing of like everyone was dying
• 2:06:12
  around him and he sat there amongst his block and blew his
• 2:06:15
  brains out while he made them do something, which is like a
• 2:06:19
  harder and longer death. And he's like, he's a piece of
• 2:06:22
  shit for a lot of reasons. But like, what a piece of shit
• 2:06:25
  move that is. Like, Oh yeah, I I get an
• 2:06:27
  instant the fucking lights are off, but you guys have to
• 2:06:31
  fucking suffer. Yeah, I always like wonder,
• 2:06:34
  like, what are the symptoms? Because as someone who like has
• 2:06:37
  IBS and is regularly dying on a toilet and I'm like, it can't be
• 2:06:40
  worse than this. Sure.
• 2:06:42
  It's. Just like stabbing pain, muscle
• 2:06:48
  spasms, your throat close closes over like it's like it, you
• 2:06:53
  know, with these ones that affect like the nervous system
• 2:06:55
  and you know, like blood flow, like it's a constriction of
• 2:07:00
  blood vessels depending on what the poison is.
• 2:07:03
  And like if your blood vessels like I used to get migraines and
• 2:07:06
  like if the blood vessels in your brain constrict and the
• 2:07:08
  blood flow is not good. Like my, the type of migraine
• 2:07:12
  that I used to get, I would go blind and it would be, I would
• 2:07:15
  feel it in the yeah, I'd feel it in the base of my skull 1st and
• 2:07:19
  it would be just this like searing hot pain.
• 2:07:21
  And a doctor told me it's, it's the blood vessels constricting.
• 2:07:25
  And then I would get these bit, I would get these big like Gray
• 2:07:28
  lines across my vision, which would then spread out.
• 2:07:30
  Terrifying. And then I would go blind, I
• 2:07:33
  wouldn't be able to see and I would just be in absolute agony
• 2:07:36
  for several hours. Do you ever think because like
• 2:07:38
  I, I get it now, it's all mostly like the front behind my eyes.
• 2:07:41
  So my eyes just I can't open them.
• 2:07:43
  Like they fucking kill. I can open them.
• 2:07:45
  I don't have lines or anything like that, but I have to be in
• 2:07:47
  like complete black. I have like these weighted
• 2:07:50
  frozen, eh, eye masks and stuff and I've been getting like Botox
• 2:07:56
  just at the side. That helps because it like the
• 2:07:58
  muscle just freezes anyway. It can't.
• 2:08:00
  Whatever. Yeah.
• 2:08:02
  Well. It helps is all I'll say.
• 2:08:08
  I wouldn't say the reason I'm getting it, but it has helped
• 2:08:11
  like I guess like alleviate the systems like systems symptoms a
• 2:08:15
  little bit. But yeah, it is like there's,
• 2:08:18
  and I always like feel like my, like people who I don't have
• 2:08:22
  sympathy for someone with a migraine have never had a
• 2:08:24
  migraine because it is fucking awful.
• 2:08:28
  Yeah, yeah. I could see that being a bad
• 2:08:30
  part of it, like. I've never had a migraine.
• 2:08:32
  I and I know I've never had a migraine for the simple fact
• 2:08:35
  that the like I've had headaches, but my mother used to
• 2:08:38
  have a migraine. She had something called TMJ
• 2:08:41
  syndrome, Temporomandibular Jones syndrome.
• 2:08:43
  Yes. Yeah, well, her jaw was.
• 2:08:45
  Pregnant shell has that. Yeah, so it's kind of her jaw
• 2:08:47
  was like separating from her head slowly.
• 2:08:50
  Yeah. She was misdiagnosed like a
• 2:08:52
  bunch of things by our doctor down here who he got fucking
• 2:08:57
  there disbarred from being a doctor, forgiving like underage
• 2:09:01
  people, a bunch of drugs. But anyways, that was a totally
• 2:09:03
  different thing. Bad doctor.
• 2:09:05
  But yeah, but my, my mother went through like migraines and got
• 2:09:09
  told for years that like, you know, was just like the doctor
• 2:09:13
  thought she was faking so that she couldn't get off work.
• 2:09:17
  Like I was just giving her search because he was like,
• 2:09:19
  that's my job as a doctor, to give search, not to give
• 2:09:21
  medication. So.
• 2:09:23
  They still do that today. Yeah, so she went and seen a
• 2:09:25
  specialist and then turns out that for years her her jaw was
• 2:09:30
  separating from her head and yeah, that she was, she was
• 2:09:34
  getting those migraines. So like, I do know what it's
• 2:09:37
  like to be around, but I've never know what they experience
• 2:09:40
  in it. So like I, I, the reason why I
• 2:09:42
  know because like I've had some people say like, oh, I have a
• 2:09:45
  migraine. Like you don't have a migraine,
• 2:09:46
  have a headache? No, because you're not.
• 2:09:48
  Standing and complaining about it, You have it, I've seen.
• 2:09:51
  A migraine I would see people posting.
• 2:09:54
  About it and they're like, oh, I'm out with a migraine.
• 2:09:56
  It's like you're posting on your fucking story.
• 2:09:58
  That light would actually fucking kill you from your
• 2:10:00
  phone. It's the only.
• 2:10:01
  The only thing that used to like fix a migraine is like I'd have
• 2:10:04
  to go to a doctor and get an injection of a muscle relaxant.
• 2:10:07
  Yeah. And like it was, you know, I'd
• 2:10:11
  get the injection and then within like 5 minutes, it all
• 2:10:15
  the pain would go away and it would just, it like honestly,
• 2:10:18
  there was, there's one time it felt like I was having like a
• 2:10:21
  cold shower. That's the way my body reacted
• 2:10:23
  to it. It was just, it was like your
• 2:10:26
  head feels like almost. Down in size as well, Yeah, it's
• 2:10:30
  just like everything is so like and then like, and that's half
• 2:10:32
  the reason I bought an ice machine as well is just for the
• 2:10:35
  fucking migraines. Just it's always on so I can
• 2:10:37
  wrap it up and just fucking have it.
• 2:10:39
  And you know, Jim Jones cured his migraines.
• 2:10:43
  Shooting himself in the head. With a revolver.
• 2:10:45
  So this is the this is the thing I want.
• 2:10:47
  I was going to get empty here. So here's when we get a little
• 2:10:49
  bit eh, conspiratorial with it. So like, again, I've consumed so
• 2:10:56
  much Johnstown this week, eh? One of them actually.
• 2:10:59
  Eh, there's Have you heard of eh, an Irish podcast called
• 2:11:03
  Those Conspiracy Guys. Eh, no.
• 2:11:06
  Actually this so 2015 I found it on eh Spotify.
• 2:11:11
  They did it in 2015. It's 4 1/2 hours long of a
• 2:11:15
  podcast and it turns out that one of my friends is on the
• 2:11:19
  podcast. He was eh, a whole wrestler
• 2:11:21
  named Stephen Elliott and eh, he's a eh, stand up comedian
• 2:11:25
  now. And eh, yeah, this is still
• 2:11:27
  called. I know that fucking
• 2:11:29
  Blanchardstown accent. I know that.
• 2:11:31
  I was like, who is that? But you contacted him.
• 2:11:33
  I said, am I listening to you talk about Jonestown from like
• 2:11:36
  10 years ago? And he's like, yeah, that's me.
• 2:11:38
  That's my God. It's like, you're a pretty good
• 2:11:40
  job. I have to do it myself, eh?
• 2:11:41
  And I'm again, I'm not doing a very good job, Steve eh, on
• 2:11:47
  those conspiracy guys from 15 years ago.
• 2:11:49
  They probably don't need your listenership, but if you want to
• 2:11:51
  learn more about Jones, they want to have 4 1/2 hours as a
• 2:11:54
  spare. They go down the room a lot of.
• 2:11:56
  Conspirators. Yeah, Oh my God, The detail
• 2:11:58
  these guys go into, they do spend a good 45 minutes on him
• 2:12:01
  being a monkey salesman though, so that's incredible.
• 2:12:05
  And I. Knew.
• 2:12:07
  Incredible. This makes me like a more.
• 2:12:09
  But anyways, so like to get into like the big one here is what
• 2:12:14
  we're talking about is that Jones has the gunshot wound.
• 2:12:18
  So he shot himself in the head or did he?
• 2:12:21
  So like. Or did the CIA get to him?
• 2:12:24
  Well, the eh, again, it might not be as easy as like CIA got
• 2:12:29
  him or whatever, eh. It might just be that one of his
• 2:12:32
  followers was like writhing in pain, gone, Why aren't you
• 2:12:36
  Diane? And then went and shot him in
• 2:12:39
  the head. Son of a bitch.
• 2:12:40
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the goon was found kind
• 2:12:44
  of a little so like he could have shot himself and the going
• 2:12:46
  could have flew away and like boy, it was found like a good
• 2:12:49
  bit away from mom. So the the idea is he either
• 2:12:53
  shot the recoil sent to go and flying and he sat back, slim
• 2:12:56
  back down into his chair or that he and again he said it himself.
• 2:13:03
  So there is the the tapes out there.
• 2:13:04
  Now again, a lot of these tapes are done.
• 2:13:07
  There's there's years worth of these tapes.
• 2:13:09
  A lot of them were lost because they were recorded over and
• 2:13:11
  stuff and that's why the actual death tapes sound so creepy but
• 2:13:15
  like music in the background and stuff because it's all recorded
• 2:13:18
  over like a bunch of different fucking of of his.
• 2:13:22
  Voices and everything. Yeah, sort of his White Night
• 2:13:25
  tapes mostly so. And again, we went to the White
• 2:13:29
  Night thing. That's another whole fucking
• 2:13:31
  thing of how he fucked people up.
• 2:13:32
  But like he wake people up in the middle of the night and be
• 2:13:35
  like, they're coming, they're coming, they're coming stuff.
• 2:13:37
  OK. And get ready to kill yourself
• 2:13:38
  or or get ready to run or do whatever.
• 2:13:39
  And like, so he had people always in this constant state of
• 2:13:42
  fear. Well, he never planned on him
• 2:13:46
  dying. So when all of this kind of came
• 2:13:48
  down to it like he was like, are you most live on so that yeah,
• 2:13:53
  you know, like. He could start again.
• 2:13:55
  That was, I think that's what he had in mind, that he was just
• 2:13:57
  going to like start over. Boy, the whole thing was like
• 2:14:00
  that. He was like the fear mongering.
• 2:14:02
  He had it in them was that the kids, it was always going to be
• 2:14:05
  the kids. The when the people, when they
• 2:14:06
  catch the kids, the stuff that he they're going to do to the
• 2:14:08
  kids. And which is funny because he
• 2:14:11
  was horrible for the children. Like he was, you know, he
• 2:14:13
  fucking beat the shit out of them.
• 2:14:15
  And eh had ranking members like I've had the they all beat the
• 2:14:21
  shit out of the kids too as well.
• 2:14:22
  It was it was very eh Yeah, you know, it did.
• 2:14:25
  They were, they were horrible. Was.
• 2:14:27
  Abused. Then yeah.
• 2:14:28
  Yeah. Yeah, but then he always used
• 2:14:30
  that as like we have to protect kids, but just not from
• 2:14:32
  ourselves. And but again, there's massive
• 2:14:37
  kind of like if we go into these fucking down the rabbit hole of
• 2:14:42
  these conspiracies, CIA again, is this big one MK Ultra?
• 2:14:47
  Yeah, again, is a was was he a part of MK Ultra or were they
• 2:14:54
  using this as a testing ground to see if they could make a
• 2:15:00
  community docile? So like they were doing it like
• 2:15:03
  individually with people. So like making either making
• 2:15:07
  sleeper agents or mind control or whatever are seeing if they
• 2:15:10
  could like make a whole nation docile by by a, you know, giving
• 2:15:14
  them low dosages of LSD and stuff like that and trying out
• 2:15:19
  all these different drugs on people and how they affect them.
• 2:15:22
  So there is the conspiracy. Was Jonestown a CIA experiment?
• 2:15:28
  Now again, when I I mentioned earlier on when there was this
• 2:15:31
  great medical facility there and it's unclear whether the people
• 2:15:35
  built it or whether it was already there, but like it
• 2:15:38
  seemed like it was a little bit too advanced.
• 2:15:40
  So like. Yeah, like why was it in this
• 2:15:43
  jungle? Yeah.
• 2:15:43
  Exactly. So the idea is like, is this
• 2:15:47
  just a place that the CIA told Jones to bring his people there
• 2:15:53
  and then they were going to see what they could do by, you know,
• 2:15:56
  dosing these people and seeing if they can make them compliant,
• 2:16:00
  that the order of the day was compliance when you have a
• 2:16:03
  fucking nation that you're now experimenting on groups of
• 2:16:07
  people. Again, I'm not saying any of
• 2:16:09
  this is true. I'm just saying this is a
• 2:16:10
  conspiracy that were the CIA using the Jonestown people as
• 2:16:18
  Guinea pigs for compliancy to see how far to get in the end.
• 2:16:24
  If we tell you to kill yourselves, would they all kill
• 2:16:27
  themselves? Yeah.
• 2:16:29
  Or will they revolt as a collective?
• 2:16:33
  Exactly. So it's to see how docile the
• 2:16:36
  people can be made. Then there's the a we go a
• 2:16:41
  little bit further down the conspiracy and we get a Leo De
• 2:16:44
  Lion Ryan who the CIA want read off because he's getting to,
• 2:16:51
  he's trying to investigate the CIA.
• 2:16:54
  He's been to Langley. Yeah, he's he's in there saying
• 2:16:57
  like here, what practices are the CIA doing here?
• 2:17:00
  And he he apparently wanted to know what the deal was with MK
• 2:17:05
  Ultra. So like it was like what we're
• 2:17:08
  seeing today with the ice, what you were saying?
• 2:17:10
  So like he was eh to a point, so deep in the fucking weeds with
• 2:17:19
  eh what the CIA were doing that they needed him gone also.
• 2:17:23
  He was too close. You.
• 2:17:24
  Yeah. Yes, you've, you've also got
• 2:17:27
  journalists here. Now here's where it gets and
• 2:17:31
  another fucking layer, one of the journalists that was there,
• 2:17:34
  like there's guys from like multiple eh places, I think ABC
• 2:17:38
  News were recording the whole thing.
• 2:17:40
  But one of the journalists that was there that was very
• 2:17:43
  interested in this thing was also someone who was
• 2:17:47
  investigating Martin Luther King and JFK.
• 2:17:55
  So he was looking into where. So like, eh, the timeline here
• 2:18:02
  would have been very close to JFK and if I'm not mistaken.
• 2:18:08
  So what was this? 75 here or 70?
• 2:18:12
  Eh 77. 7777 sorry. Yeah, so and JFK was 73. 68.
• 2:18:20
  Or six. Sorry.
• 2:18:20
  Yeah, yeah. 68. Yeah, sorry.
• 2:18:21
  It was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:18:23
  Because yeah, they went to the moon 69 that was the year after.
• 2:18:26
  Yeah. So like he, this guy and then
• 2:18:29
  Martin Luther King. 63 it was 63 What am I saying?
• 2:18:33
  Was it was 60 or 60? Three.
• 2:18:35
  He was shot at 63. 63, Yeah, yeah.
• 2:18:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And why am I saying 69 is the
• 2:18:41
  year after? Oh, because that's when it
• 2:18:45
  doesn't doesn't matter. The moon landing thing is a
• 2:18:47
  totally different conspiracy. And so, so the guy who one of
• 2:18:55
  these investigative reporters was someone who was looking into
• 2:19:00
  the likes of Martin Luther King and the JFK stuff and he was
• 2:19:02
  kind of a getting a little bit too close for comfort
• 2:19:06
  apparently. Now, again, just a conspiracy.
• 2:19:11
  So the CIA, did they orchestrate this trip for these guys to come
• 2:19:16
  down? Now, again, more conspiratorial
• 2:19:20
  is the fact that were did all these people actually drink
• 2:19:26
  this? That the now again, 100% we're
• 2:19:30
  going to call this murder across the board.
• 2:19:32
  OK. So Jim Jones, yeah, murdered all
• 2:19:34
  these people no matter what. Like if it's if it's if it is
• 2:19:38
  what they say it is. And he convinced them to commit
• 2:19:40
  suicide. He murdered all these people.
• 2:19:42
  So like, that's why it's a massacre.
• 2:19:43
  That's why I had to start. But I said it's a massacre.
• 2:19:47
  But there also is the conspiracy that what if these people
• 2:19:52
  weren't as compliant as eh is suggested and that they were all
• 2:19:59
  actually, a lot of them did drink the fucking kool-aid.
• 2:20:03
  But the non compliant people were actually all murdered.
• 2:20:08
  And there is again. 100% conspiracy on this one, but a
• 2:20:16
  lot of puncture wounds on people, eh, between like the
• 2:20:20
  shoulder blades in the back, like, you know, where you
• 2:20:24
  couldn't, you know, just inject themselves directly with poison.
• 2:20:26
  Yes. So basically just being injected
• 2:20:28
  with poison in between the shoulder blades in the back, in
• 2:20:31
  the back of the neck. And, and that's how, like when
• 2:20:35
  they talk of the, the people came first, they count the
• 2:20:39
  bodies. I think they said there was like
• 2:20:40
  400 bodies. And then the numbers just kept
• 2:20:44
  going up. And the the excuse they used for
• 2:20:47
  this was because people were all on top of one another.
• 2:20:52
  So like, again, the excuse that they were using was, OK, a
• 2:20:57
  parent saw the child died, took the poison, died on top of the
• 2:21:02
  child. And you know what?
• 2:21:03
  It was men. Yeah.
• 2:21:04
  So there was again, so they couldn't see the, the, the vast
• 2:21:09
  amount of people because a lot of people were covering other
• 2:21:11
  people. But there is a the kind of
• 2:21:15
  reports that it looked like bodies were dragged into
• 2:21:18
  positions. And it like also looked a little
• 2:21:23
  bit like too convenient that these people were all so
• 2:21:26
  peaceful when in fact, cyanide as we are, we are talking about
• 2:21:32
  is a very painful death. So again, what were the like,
• 2:21:38
  OK, we could say that the Prozac and the kind of whatever other
• 2:21:41
  drugs that they had in this concoction put of kind of
• 2:21:44
  mellowed everybody out and it didn't give them what they call
• 2:21:47
  the cyanide grain. So basically when?
• 2:21:50
  The grains get. Constricted all your muscles
• 2:21:53
  constrict up, including your mouth that you you have this
• 2:21:56
  joker's grain and none of the people had that but they also
• 2:22:00
  the the Guyanese government they they'd like 7 autopsies of 909
• 2:22:09
  people. There was only like 7 autopsies
• 2:22:12
  don't excuse to get for this one was because they were in the
• 2:22:15
  jungle. It was getting very hot and that
• 2:22:17
  the bodies were now a. Decomposing too fast?
• 2:22:21
  Yeah. Very fast.
• 2:22:22
  And again, there was pictures taken and there was people
• 2:22:29
  pictures taken and there's Green Berets and SAS people.
• 2:22:33
  So British and American guys were there very fast, by the
• 2:22:37
  way. So like conveniently fast.
• 2:22:40
  Like how were they in the same jungle?
• 2:22:42
  And you could say the SAS because it was a, an ex British
• 2:22:45
  territory and did now Diane at the time did get their, their,
• 2:22:50
  their freedom, but of course there would be still British
• 2:22:54
  military bases left there. And of course, if there's a
• 2:22:56
  British military base, there's normally an American, British or
• 2:23:00
  military, yeah, on paces as well.
• 2:23:02
  That's just how it goes. That the US military would just
• 2:23:05
  be hanging around in South America in the 70s like they
• 2:23:09
  would. They were just.
• 2:23:10
  Everywhere, yeah, Venezuela, somewhere that they were
• 2:23:13
  actually fairly interested in anyways.
• 2:23:15
  But again, the conspiracy, eh Head if we stick on our tinfoil
• 2:23:19
  hat, they were there very fast, but some of the pictures that
• 2:23:22
  were taken were of these guys in gas masks.
• 2:23:29
  Now we the excuses they're giving for the gas masks is OK.
• 2:23:35
  So in the jungle, yeah, it's very hot and these bodies are
• 2:23:39
  decomposing. So they're doing it because
• 2:23:43
  there's a smell. It's it's pretty dodgy out
• 2:23:45
  there. But again, yeah, our tinfoil
• 2:23:47
  hats are on. So were people gassed on mass is
• 2:23:52
  another one. So did they actually all kill
• 2:23:56
  themselves or was there kind of a OK, guys, we need to get the
• 2:24:02
  rest of these people. Now, you have to understand
• 2:24:03
  there's 918 people here. Eight people, Eh, was also nine
• 2:24:10
  people I think got out, which is fucking crazy.
• 2:24:13
  And. Yeah, to like to, to be like
• 2:24:16
  such a small number of survivors and to.
• 2:24:18
  See like 9. 100 people die is almost a. 1000 people, yeah.
• 2:24:22
  That's just going to fuck you. There's like the stories of some
• 2:24:25
  of the people that got out. There was 1 elderly woman who
• 2:24:27
  slept through the Hola. So she was like she woke up,
• 2:24:35
  looked out and everybody's dead. There was one, there was one guy
• 2:24:42
  who was a fairly high up that he, he left and they, the guys
• 2:24:49
  who were tasked at shooting people if they ran, he was above
• 2:24:54
  their pay grade. So he said, I'm going to tell
• 2:24:58
  the story. This is my job.
• 2:25:01
  So he his, the way he got out was he said Jim Jones told me
• 2:25:06
  that I had to tell the story of what happened here today and I
• 2:25:09
  had to bring the tapes or whatever.
• 2:25:10
  Now he wasn't leaving with tapes, but he just, he fled and
• 2:25:14
  there was a couple of guys who and were close to the jungle and
• 2:25:23
  they kept going. I want to die with a, let's say,
• 2:25:27
  Jimmy John, Jimmy John's the person I want to die with.
• 2:25:30
  And they kept just kind of going and saying, oh, Jimmy John's
• 2:25:33
  down here. I'm going to get to that.
• 2:25:34
  And eventually they got into the jungle and just fled and sort of
• 2:25:38
  were able to light their way through the, the people and be
• 2:25:42
  like, I'm gonna, eh, I'm getting here.
• 2:25:45
  I'm, I'm, I'm, eh, I'm gonna die over here.
• 2:25:47
  I'm gonna die over here. I'm gonna die.
• 2:25:48
  And eventually there wasn't anybody else left for them to
• 2:25:50
  say they have to later. And they fled.
• 2:25:52
  They got out there. Yeah.
• 2:25:54
  And so there was like, there was a few people that got out.
• 2:25:57
  A couple of people, eh, were able to eh, lie very still, eh,
• 2:26:02
  for like a day and not eh like just hope, you know what I mean,
• 2:26:07
  sort of stench of death around. Yeah, what like they, they got
• 2:26:10
  up. One of the the guys was I think
• 2:26:14
  there was a couple of teenage guys that ended up doing that.
• 2:26:17
  They they ended up being like, what the fuck did we get
• 2:26:19
  ourselves into? And they were like, we're
• 2:26:21
  definitely not killing ourselves.
• 2:26:23
  So like a bunch of people did get out.
• 2:26:24
  There was also people that where were kind of still there.
• 2:26:31
  They came out and went off fuck. And they had there was like a
• 2:26:35
  couple of women that we're like, oh, we missed this.
• 2:26:39
  So they stabbed their kids to death and then slit each other's
• 2:26:43
  throats and died. Yeah, they saw it was so it's so
• 2:26:47
  grim. But again, to get into the
• 2:26:49
  conspiracy side of things, was that there the, the questions
• 2:26:56
  that are asked were, did all these people actually take this,
• 2:27:00
  this drink? Like like out of 918 people, 909
• 2:27:06
  people were dead. So did all these people drink it
• 2:27:10
  up? Now, a lot of the kids would
• 2:27:12
  have been forced to drink. So like, and there was a lot of
• 2:27:15
  kids, it was like 300 kids. So like we can rule them that
• 2:27:19
  if, if true, people did force the kids to drink.
• 2:27:23
  And then obviously parents would have been like, OK, now I
• 2:27:25
  definitely can live for myself and they would have fucking
• 2:27:28
  killed themselves. Just to say it as well, it, it
• 2:27:31
  was toddlers and babies like it was very, very young children
• 2:27:35
  among among those 300 as well. Umm, which is just, I don't know
• 2:27:40
  how you ever could it's. So graphically tainted.
• 2:27:44
  Yeah, I don't know how you ever could live with yourself for
• 2:27:48
  doing that. Like you'd have to be gone
• 2:27:50
  straight away. Like if you if you did do
• 2:27:52
  anything like that, you. Know what I mean?
• 2:27:53
  The mindset here? So like, again, the question is,
• 2:27:59
  could you do that? Could you just kill your kid?
• 2:28:01
  Now again, we're all looking around and if people are
• 2:28:04
  standing with guns and saying you better fucking poison your
• 2:28:07
  kid or we're going to shoot you, like is, is, is that what
• 2:28:11
  happened? Or again, was it?
• 2:28:14
  Is it we'll just shoot the kid if you don't feed the kid the
• 2:28:17
  poison? Like did they think like is it
• 2:28:20
  going to be better to just poison the kid than to have the
• 2:28:22
  kid be fucking shot in front of me?
• 2:28:24
  Like is that like another? Yeah, I think that's what they
• 2:28:27
  were. That's kind of the line that
• 2:28:29
  we're supposed to, like, believe like that like.
• 2:28:32
  But for the most part, it was all compliant for the most part
• 2:28:36
  while we're here. Yeah.
• 2:28:37
  Everybody just went along with it.
• 2:28:39
  But then there was people who obviously questioned it, like
• 2:28:41
  this woman Miller, and a few people, and that they were
• 2:28:45
  encouraged, like you can hear on the death tapes.
• 2:28:46
  Or he's like, come on now, die with dignity and he's like.
• 2:28:50
  But Miller? It's such a great way to phrase
• 2:28:53
  it, yeah. Yeah, just just to, I don't know
• 2:28:56
  if you, umm, if you went into this or not, but did Miller have
• 2:28:59
  kids herself? I don't think she did.
• 2:29:02
  Umm, no, I don't think so. I don't think that's what the
• 2:29:05
  deal was there and. Yeah, I I just think she just
• 2:29:08
  was, she was sounds like one of the only ones that had fucking
• 2:29:11
  common sense. Well, she had to give hopefully
• 2:29:13
  she she the, the, the masses kind of said, shut the fuck up
• 2:29:18
  and sit down. We're all killing ourselves.
• 2:29:19
  Like, but again, was like, could she be the only dissenter in it
• 2:29:24
  because she'd be the only person there out of 900 people.
• 2:29:27
  I think this isn't a good idea. So like, are you just going
• 2:29:30
  wrong with all of this because you believe in this one guy or
• 2:29:33
  because if I don't want to drink this, I'm going to look like a
• 2:29:35
  fool because everybody else is drinking it, You know, like can
• 2:29:38
  peer pressure get you to do that?
• 2:29:39
  So that's again, the question is, did the CIA have something
• 2:29:43
  to do with this in a way that either on one side made
• 2:29:47
  everybody more compliant, like was there an MK Ultra element to
• 2:29:51
  this? Or did they all come after the
• 2:29:55
  fact and drop fucking gas and kill everybody out and.
• 2:30:00
  Make sure everyone was dead. Like double tapped him.
• 2:30:03
  Exactly. I don't want that situation I.
• 2:30:04
  Mean that makes sense. Yeah.
• 2:30:06
  And yes. So there's all there's and then
• 2:30:08
  log into a yeah, there's so much like it's, it's a, it's a lot of
• 2:30:13
  shit in this. Like we could again, there's an
• 2:30:15
  episode on what happened and then there's an episode on what?
• 2:30:20
  Do we think happened? You know what I mean?
• 2:30:21
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:30:24
  We could do that down the line because I think I want to do
• 2:30:26
  like what she's doing is what's Wrong with America series.
• 2:30:28
  I don't think we should do it down the line.
• 2:30:30
  I think I think it's good enough to leave it here.
• 2:30:32
  But like we can leave it open to people to interpret it what they
• 2:30:35
  want. Like we've we've we've given,
• 2:30:37
  we've given the information here, guys, what's what happens
• 2:30:41
  is a terrible thing. A bunch of people followed a man
• 2:30:44
  into the jungle. Everybody ended up dead.
• 2:30:46
  Now, if you want to believe yeah, what is said, that's one
• 2:30:50
  thing. If you're interested in kind of
• 2:30:53
  going down the conspiracy route, guys, follow up because you will
• 2:30:59
  go down some rabbit holes and I've been I'll I'll meet you
• 2:31:02
  down there. It's, you know, there's a
• 2:31:05
  there's a lot he'll. Be there, he'll be there
• 2:31:06
  waiting. He'll have a delicious,
• 2:31:08
  refreshing drink to share with you.
• 2:31:12
  Yeah. Cadet Cola, today's episode.
• 2:31:17
  Yeah. But but yeah, I like I could.
• 2:31:22
  Again, I'm sorry for like I I know I've gone off on so many
• 2:31:26
  tangents on this. No, but there's.
• 2:31:28
  Yeah, there's so many rat like rat roll rolls on this that you
• 2:31:33
  could just kind of follow to fucking crazy town.
• 2:31:37
  And like again, like I said, there's like you've got Martin
• 2:31:41
  Luther King and JFK ties, you've got CIA, you've got Russia,
• 2:31:44
  you've got so many different kind of like angles.
• 2:31:49
  Because. Yeah, because of the the time
• 2:31:53
  that it was happening, when you think about like it's the CIA,
• 2:31:57
  it's MK Ultra, it's the Cold War, it's assassination after
• 2:32:01
  assassination, there's a shit load of bulls happening.
• 2:32:04
  It's just. Layer upon layer.
• 2:32:05
  Yes, yeah. And, and like everything can
• 2:32:07
  kind of join in if if you want to kind of, you know, mash these
• 2:32:12
  kind of stories all in together, they will fit somewhere.
• 2:32:15
  Like there is a puzzle that all these pieces will fit into.
• 2:32:18
  And we think now that we're living in the craziest time and
• 2:32:21
  there is an argument to be made because it is fucked up out
• 2:32:24
  there. Especially now as we sit here
• 2:32:26
  and we're thinking about eh, ice and the Epstein files and
• 2:32:30
  fucking Greenland and like China, Russia, all these
• 2:32:35
  different things that are happening in the world right
• 2:32:36
  now. But I would put it out here that
• 2:32:41
  the late 60s, early 70s, that was a crazy fucking time.
• 2:32:47
  Oh yeah, absolutely. Like the amount of shit that
• 2:32:50
  went on. Yeah, and sweet, I think, I
• 2:32:55
  think we've given a lot of people some good food for
• 2:32:57
  thought at the end, like, because there's just, there's a
• 2:33:01
  lot of layers to follow up, some kool-aid for thought.
• 2:33:04
  And yeah. And like, there's like, as
• 2:33:07
  usual, we talked about like future episodes that we'll do.
• 2:33:09
  Like, I have a, you know, like I want to do an episode on the
• 2:33:11
  CIA. But again, it'll just have to be
• 2:33:13
  like skimming the surface and being like, here's a book I
• 2:33:16
  read. You guys go read this book.
• 2:33:17
  And there's just layer upon layer of, you know, different
• 2:33:20
  things. Like I want to do evangelists
• 2:33:21
  and televangelists as their own thing as well.
• 2:33:24
  Just the Righteous Gemstones. There, it'll just be me as baby
• 2:33:28
  Billy. And.
• 2:33:30
  Like just wearing a white wig. So yeah, I think that was, I
• 2:33:37
  think that was pretty good for what, 2 1/2 hours?
• 2:33:41
  1 1/2 hours on the story. Almost 3.
• 2:33:45
  Yeah, we, we could. We could do this forever.
• 2:33:47
  Like it's, yeah. Yeah, and I could be a fucking 3
• 2:33:51
  parter because as I said, the notes that I had were 14 pages
• 2:33:53
  long and even then I didn't have everything on this motherfucker
• 2:33:56
  because he was fucking crazy. And yeah, yeah, there's there's
• 2:34:01
  not in like he could have his own fucking series, but.
• 2:34:04
  So justy take us home. Thank you ladies and gentlemen
• 2:34:09
  for listening to us. And that are very Amrit version
• 2:34:14
  of Jim Jones and the Johnstown Massacre.
• 2:34:17
  Eh? I've been justy.
• 2:34:20
  He's been a shame. She's been Danny.
• 2:34:24
  Thank you for hanging out with us for a spell.