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Going The Distance From Mike Sielski Stallone Philly And The Story Of Rocky · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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Speaker 1: A-R-R-O-E dot net. Enjoy your exploration. I got to tell
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Speaker 1: you something that I feel like that we should all
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Speaker 1: be saying we grew up with Rocky. And here's the
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Speaker 1: thing about it, though, Mike, is the fact that I
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Speaker 1: read the book first before I saw the movie. And
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Speaker 1: I was there when all this happened. And it's just
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Speaker 1: I'm still blown away by this storyline. And I and
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Speaker 1: the fact that you now give us this book, you
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Speaker 1: have no idea what kind of a gift this is
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Speaker 1: to those of us that have been there since day one.
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Speaker 2: I appreciate that so much, Arrow. You know, I've been
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Speaker 2: I've been saying to people since I started to work
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Speaker 2: on this. I've grown up in the Philadelphia area, lived
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Speaker 2: here virtually my whole life. I don't know a world
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Speaker 2: without Rocky. And it was so much fun to do
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Speaker 2: this book and to dive into the movie and the
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Speaker 2: backstories behind it. It was so cool.
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Speaker 1: Well, you give us that whole complete different view of
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Speaker 1: everything that takes place. And I just wish that along
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Speaker 1: the way that we could have had this, but it
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Speaker 1: was we had to have our own interpretation of what
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Speaker 1: it took, you know, for Sylvester Stallone to put this
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Speaker 1: together and to create the characters in every place they
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Speaker 1: took them. And you really you put it in this
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Speaker 1: little area where I'm going to sound like my grandmother.
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Speaker 1: And I find myself doing this as I read the book.
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Speaker 1: I go, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. In other words,
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Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm reading about it. And I'm just
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Speaker 1: I mean, you're just sucking the air right out of me, dude.
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Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that. I mean. To me, it was
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Speaker 2: very important to tell the story as accurately as I could. Look,
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Speaker 2: it's a remarkable story. The story of the making of
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Speaker 2: Rocky is a Rocky story in and of itself. And
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Speaker 2: everybody knows that and loves it. But that doesn't mean
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Speaker 2: you can't tell the truth or as close to the
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Speaker 2: truth as possible. And That's what I really wanted to
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Speaker 2: do here. And, you know, to do that, you had
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Speaker 2: to do deep dives into research. You had to go
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Speaker 2: to archives. You had to trade emails with Sylvester Stallone
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Speaker 2: and track down other people involved in the film. But
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Speaker 2: it was a labor of love from the word go.
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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you clearly stated and you set up
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Speaker 1: the readers right off the bat. It is a timeless
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Speaker 1: piece that is also beloved. It is American pop culture
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Speaker 1: that comes with its own statue.
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Speaker 2: It is. It's remarkable to me how this movie still
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Speaker 2: resonates today. You know, I was just at, you know,
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Speaker 2: in my day job as the sports columnist for the
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Speaker 2: Philadelphia Inquirer, I was just at the Eagles-Giants game yesterday
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Speaker 2: at Lincoln Financial Field. And as they do before every
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Speaker 2: home game, the Eagles played the Rocky music and they
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Speaker 2: interspersed highlights of Eagles games on their giant video board.
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Speaker 2: with clips from all the Rocky movies and people go
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Speaker 2: nuts for it. Now, some of that is just a
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Speaker 2: Philadelphia thing, but mostly it's a universal thing. It's a
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Speaker 2: human thing. It's a connection to a story about someone
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Speaker 2: who wants tomorrow to be better than today and is
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Speaker 2: willing to work his ass off to make it happen.
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Speaker 2: And everybody can identify with that.
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Speaker 1: It was a national thing, that song, because out there
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Speaker 1: in Billings, Montana, for the Billings Bighorns, our hockey team,
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Speaker 1: when they went into gonna fly now, we stood up
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Speaker 1: and we screamed so loud for our champion. This was
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Speaker 1: our Rocky on that ice.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think everybody feels that way at some
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Speaker 2: time in their lives, right? You hear gonna fly now
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Speaker 2: at college basketball games and college football games and high
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Speaker 2: school sporting events, and you can't help but feel like
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Speaker 2: you want to be with Rocky Balboa running up the
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Speaker 2: art museum steps or, you know, speeding, speeding along Delaware
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Speaker 2: Avenue in Philadelphia when he runs past that giant ship
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Speaker 2: along the river. It's, It's remarkable how motivational, inspirational that
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Speaker 2: music is. And you have Bill Conti, the composer, to
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Speaker 2: thank for it.
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Speaker 1: Oh, my God. I can't imagine. You talked to him.
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Speaker 1: I mean, what did he there's no way that he
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Speaker 1: could have known this was going to be big. Because,
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Speaker 1: I mean, for that song to even do what it did.
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Speaker 1: I remember calling up K.O.O.K. in Billings, Montana, saying, you
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Speaker 1: play the Bill Conti song. Please play the Bill Conti song.
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Speaker 1: I mean, we were going crazy over that piece of music.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, he had no idea. First things first. He was
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Speaker 2: not the first choice. by the producers and director John
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Speaker 2: Avilson to write the music for Rocky. In fact, the
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Speaker 2: script made its way to a composer named David Shire,
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Speaker 2: who at the time was married to Talia Shire. That's
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Speaker 2: how Talia Shire got the part of Adrian. The script
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Speaker 2: got sent to her house and she happened to read it,
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Speaker 2: except it was intended for her husband. But Bill Conti, yeah,
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Speaker 2: he grew up wanting to be a classical music composer,
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Speaker 2: a Baroque composer. And he gets brought on board to
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Speaker 2: write this music. And Sylvester Stallone wants classical style music.
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Speaker 2: And John Abelson, the director, wants more contemporary rock and roll.
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Speaker 2: And Conti has to kind of marry those two styles.
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Speaker 2: And he does it. I mean, there are aspects of
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Speaker 2: the soundtrack of the movie that sound like 70s rock
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Speaker 2: and roll. And there are aspects of it that sound
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Speaker 2: like Mozart or Beethoven could have written it.
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Speaker 1: You talk about Talia Shire. Why is it that even today,
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Speaker 1: when Rocky's in that ring going, Adrian, I still cry
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Speaker 1: like a baby. I don't know what he was thinking
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Speaker 1: when he put that down and then created it on
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Speaker 1: that screen. He had to have known somewhere that they're
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Speaker 1: still going to cry like babies, those grown men.
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Speaker 2: I think it might be the best love story in
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Speaker 2: movie history because not only is Rocky developing throughout the
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Speaker 2: movie and changing and gaining greater self-confidence and a greater
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Speaker 2: sense of self-respect, so is the character of Adrian. She's
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Speaker 2: coming out of her shell. She's blooming like a flower.
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Speaker 2: And at the end, I think part of the reason, Arrow,
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Speaker 2: that you're crying at the end is when Apollo knocks
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Speaker 2: Rocky down in the 14th round and he's struggling to
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Speaker 2: get up. And they cut to Adrian watching him try
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Speaker 2: to get up to keep going. And she closes her
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Speaker 2: eyes and opens them up again. You can see her
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Speaker 2: thinking in that moment, I am connecting myself to this
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Speaker 2: man for the rest of my life. And it's almost
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Speaker 2: like there's a force between the two of them that
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Speaker 2: helps him get back on his feet. and stand there
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Speaker 2: and wave Apollo on. Come on, I got more for you.
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Speaker 2: And if that doesn't move you, you're not a human being.
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Speaker 1: Wow. Another thing that really touched me, and once again,
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Speaker 1: it started in the book version first, because that's where
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Speaker 1: I started. But the thing about it is, though, is
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Speaker 1: the way that he went into the, well, because he
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Speaker 1: worked there, into where they were cutting up the meat
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Speaker 1: and the cattle and stuff. In my own martial arts training,
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Speaker 1: they wouldn't let me hit cattle, but I got to
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Speaker 1: break bricks. And it's because of Rocky. I would love
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Speaker 1: to know other people's careers that did the same exact
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Speaker 1: thing to condition their bodies because that's what Rocky would do.
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Speaker 2: That's a great question. You know, there's a lot of
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Speaker 2: speculation that Stallone got the inspiration for shooting that scene
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Speaker 2: where he's punching the frozen sides of beef from Joe Frazier,
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Speaker 2: the heavyweight champion from Philadelphia, Olympic gold medalist. But there's
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Speaker 2: no evidence at all that Frazier ever did that. And
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Speaker 2: if you think about it, of course there wouldn't be
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Speaker 2: any evidence that Frazier did that. The idea of a
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Speaker 2: budding heavyweight champion or Olympic gold medalist risking breaking his
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Speaker 2: knuckles punching frozen sides of beef just doesn't make any
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Speaker 2: sense but and it doesn't really make sense in the
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Speaker 2: movie either but we buy into it because of the
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Speaker 2: character because it's set in this blue collar you know
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Speaker 2: lower middle class section of philadelphia and this is what
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Speaker 2: he has to do to to train himself to face
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Speaker 2: the great apollo creed um we buy into it we
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Speaker 2: suspend our disbelief and it's one of the most memorable
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Speaker 2: sequences of the whole film.
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Speaker 1: When you were putting together the index and the beginning
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Speaker 1: stages of this book, there had to have been something
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Speaker 1: in your heart that said, if I don't include Italian
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Speaker 1: Stallion somewhere in this opening page, these hardcore Rocky fans
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Speaker 1: are going to call my butt out.
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Speaker 2: You are so, so right. During the course of writing
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Speaker 2: this book and even now, part of me is a
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Speaker 2: little terrified that I'm going to get an email from
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Speaker 2: somebody who knows these movies even better than I do
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Speaker 2: and is like, you left out this or you got
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Speaker 2: this part wrong. Look, every book, there's going to be
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Speaker 2: tiny little imperfections, but I really did my due diligence
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Speaker 2: here to try to make sure I got the story right.
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Speaker 1: It's always so much fun when Mike Silski comes onto
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Speaker 1: the show. The man just brings his drama. I love it.
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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. The name of the book, Going
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Speaker 1: the Distance, Stallone, Philly, and the Story of Rocky. We
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Speaker 1: are back with Mike Silski. I tell you what I
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Speaker 1: learned from your book, and like I said, I grew
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Speaker 1: up with all this. I didn't know that Butkus was
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Speaker 1: his real dog.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a great story that, a great part
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Speaker 2: of this book. Stallone has been telling a story for
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Speaker 2: years connected to Butkus's that really makes one of the
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Speaker 2: cast members and one of the most important people involved
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Speaker 2: in this movie look very, very bad. I don't want
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Speaker 2: to get into too much detail. I tell the story
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Speaker 2: in the book. But for 30 years, he's been telling
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Speaker 2: the story, and it's really broken the heart of somebody
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Speaker 2: who was very essential to the making of Rocky. And
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Speaker 2: it deals with Butkus. But yeah, Butkus was his dog.
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Speaker 2: I mean, Chapter One is all about the train ride
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Speaker 2: that Stallone and his wife and Butkus took from Los
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Speaker 2: Angeles to Philadelphia to begin shooting. And Butkus behaved on
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Speaker 2: that train ride exactly how you would expect a giant
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Speaker 2: bull mastiff to behave on a two day train ride
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Speaker 2: from the West Coast to the East Coast.
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Speaker 1: The drama, the ride of the story, because we've always
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Speaker 1: heard that, you know, Rocky was just wanting to do
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Speaker 1: or Stallone. I call him Rocky, even. Even when I'm
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Speaker 1: watching his Tulsa show, I call him Rocky and I'm
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Speaker 1: sitting there watching it. And the thing about it is, though,
10:05
Speaker 1: look how many movies since Rocky do the performance scene
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Speaker 1: in the way of waking up early in the morning,
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Speaker 1: get your body in shape, go for that run. Every
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Speaker 1: time I see anybody do that, even with Matt Damon,
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Speaker 1: I'm going, you swipe that. That's a Rocky move. Do
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Speaker 1: not take that from my man, Rocky.
10:22
Speaker 2: You're 100% right. I mean, this is the template for
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Speaker 2: every underdog sports movie that comes thereafter. I mean, whether
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Speaker 2: you're talking about a real-life underdog story like the 1980 U.S.
10:33
Speaker 2: Men's Olympic team and the hockey team, whether you're talking
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Speaker 2: about Rudy, Hoosiers, they're all derivative of Rocky. And none
10:43
Speaker 2: of them can do what Rocky does at the end,
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Speaker 2: which is get you– Standing up and cheering and applauding
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Speaker 2: for somebody who didn't even win the big fight. And
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Speaker 2: that's the genius of the movie is that Rocky doesn't win.
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Speaker 2: It doesn't hit as hard and have the impact and
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Speaker 2: staying power that it's had. if he beats Apollo Creed.
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Speaker 1: Now, because I'm so associated with the movie industry these days,
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Speaker 1: with the promotions departments, now, when I read that Rocky
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Speaker 1: only pulled in $ 225, and I say that only pulled in,
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Speaker 1: but in 1976 bucks, that was like a billionaire. But
11:15
Speaker 1: the thing is, though, if he could have been attached
11:17
Speaker 1: to today's charges for movie theaters, come on, this would
11:20
Speaker 1: have been a billion-dollar movie.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely. There's no doubt about that. I mean, and what's
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Speaker 2: remarkable about it is... The word of mouth was the
11:30
Speaker 2: way that it spread. You know, there's a there's a
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Speaker 2: scene in the book where Irwin Winkler, who is one
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Speaker 2: of the producers of the movie, is standing outside a
11:36
Speaker 2: theater in Manhattan and he's reading The New York Times.
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Speaker 2: And the critic for The New York Times completely pans
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Speaker 2: the movie. And Winkler is distraught. He can't believe it.
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Speaker 2: This is it. You know, nobody's going to go see Rocky.
11:48
Speaker 2: And from out of the theater walks Peter, the actor,
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Speaker 2: Peter Falk, Columbo. And he says, he says, Erwin, what's
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Speaker 2: going on? And Winkler is, oh, it's terrible. The Times
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Speaker 2: ripped Rocky. And Peter Falk says to him, go in
12:01
Speaker 2: the theater and listen. They're all cheering. You don't have
12:04
Speaker 2: anything to worry about. And that was it. People were
12:07
Speaker 2: coming out of theaters talking about this movie and reciting
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Speaker 2: its lines and cheering over the endings. And you can't
12:15
Speaker 2: I don't know that there's a corollary nowadays in Hollywood
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Speaker 2: to be able to to, you know, have a movie
12:21
Speaker 2: get that popular just by word of mouth.
12:23
Speaker 1: See, because I was there in 1976, I know the
12:26
Speaker 1: state of this nation. I know what we were going
12:28
Speaker 1: through as we prepared for our birthday, our 200th birthday.
12:31
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is, is that I wish
12:33
Speaker 1: that somebody would say that part of the spirit of
12:35
Speaker 1: 1976 was the Rocky movie. And that's why we all
12:39
Speaker 1: got into that spirit of celebrating this nation, because Rocky
12:43
Speaker 1: made us feel great to be a true American.
12:47
Speaker 2: It's timing couldn't have been better. Think about it. We're
12:50
Speaker 2: coming off of Vietnam. We're coming off of Watergate. We're
12:53
Speaker 2: dealing with, you know, crime waves throughout urban America. America
12:58
Speaker 2: is at a low point. It really is. And this
13:01
Speaker 2: movie comes along. And what Stallone understood was that people
13:05
Speaker 2: were looking for a reason to feel good again. And
13:07
Speaker 2: this movie gives them the reason for that. Think about
13:10
Speaker 2: all the movies that are out at that time that
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Speaker 2: are critically acclaimed and popular. It's Taxi Driver. It's Network,
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Speaker 2: two of the films that are nominated for Best Picture
13:18
Speaker 2: that year alongside Rocky. They're very cynical. They're gritty. They're
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Speaker 2: reflecting America as it is. Rocky does that, too, but
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Speaker 2: it has the happy ending, the inspirational ending. And that's
13:29
Speaker 2: what people at that time were looking for.
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Speaker 1: It's fascinating in the way that I feel like that
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Speaker 1: you're taking us for this tour, but you're not treating
13:37
Speaker 1: us like like the visitor or somebody from out of town.
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Speaker 1: It's almost like you're saying you're part of my family.
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Speaker 1: I just want I grew up here. I just want
13:43
Speaker 1: you to just see this. Hold on to it and
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Speaker 1: grow with it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly how I tried to approach the film.
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Speaker 2: And honestly, Arrow, it was one of the challenging parts
13:53
Speaker 2: about writing the book was, do I write this for
13:55
Speaker 2: people who know Rocky inside and out? Do I write
13:59
Speaker 2: it for people from Philadelphia who are going to want
14:02
Speaker 2: like the really hyper local details and shout outs and
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Speaker 2: all of that? Or do I write it for people
14:08
Speaker 2: who maybe aren't as familiar with Rocky and just want
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Speaker 2: to read a great story about how a walking that
14:17
Speaker 2: line and touching in all those areas was a challenge,
14:20
Speaker 2: but man, it was so much fun.
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Speaker 1: Now between us, do you think there's any grown man
14:25
Speaker 1: anywhere in this nation that has not tried to pull
14:27
Speaker 1: off a Rocky Balboa impersonation?
14:31
Speaker 2: No, of course not. I do it all the time.
14:34
Speaker 2: It drives my wife crazy. Um, you know, I, I
14:37
Speaker 2: try to do, you know, all of it. I can't
14:39
Speaker 2: do it well, but everybody's tried it. Of course it's,
14:43
Speaker 2: You know, he's one of the greatest characters in film history.
14:47
Speaker 2: He's so endearing. He's so inspirational. He's so lovable. And,
14:55
Speaker 2: you know, there's a reason that there have been, what,
14:57
Speaker 2: nine movies made connected to him as a character.
15:01
Speaker 1: So now when you got to sit down and be
15:03
Speaker 1: with everybody that was involved with this movie, were you
15:06
Speaker 1: like a child in a China store or a toy store? Because,
15:09
Speaker 1: I mean, this is I mean, we're talking about a
15:11
Speaker 1: piece of history that people are going to be talking
15:13
Speaker 1: about in 100 years.
15:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I've ever been more nervous for
15:17
Speaker 2: an interview than when I got Bill Conti on the
15:20
Speaker 2: phone the first time. And I did two lengthy interviews
15:23
Speaker 2: with him and he was so gracious and so wonderful.
15:26
Speaker 2: But I mean, let me put it this way, Arrow.
15:30
Speaker 2: In February of 2025, I went down to Baton Rouge
15:34
Speaker 2: to look at Bill Conti's archives. He's an LSU alumnus
15:37
Speaker 2: and he donated all his material to their library. So
15:39
Speaker 2: I got the chance to hold the sheet music for
15:42
Speaker 2: Gonna Fly Now. And... I got chills when I was
15:45
Speaker 2: in the library. I could read all the notes that
15:48
Speaker 2: he'd written in the margins, you know, jazzy guitar riff here.
15:52
Speaker 2: And then I get him on the phone and talk
15:53
Speaker 2: to him about this. And it just it was such
15:56
Speaker 2: a fun, invigorating, cool process to research and write this book.
16:01
Speaker 2: And I think talking to Mr. Conti was the highlight.
16:04
Speaker 1: Well, inside my imagination, when it came to him putting
16:07
Speaker 1: the music inside that movie, I always envisioned it in
16:09
Speaker 1: the way that the History Channel shows, you know, the
16:12
Speaker 1: orchestras inside. They're watching the movie before the fans even
16:15
Speaker 1: get to watch it. And they're doing the music as
16:17
Speaker 1: they're watching that screen. Is that the way they did it?
16:19
Speaker 1: Because I know today they probably just whip out a
16:21
Speaker 1: song and they just drop it in. But I just
16:23
Speaker 1: feel like that he was there when they were building
16:27
Speaker 1: this thing still in the studio.
16:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he spent a ton of time with
16:32
Speaker 2: John Abelson and with Stallone. Avilson would come over basically
16:37
Speaker 2: every night and talk to him about what he wanted
16:40
Speaker 2: from the film, and then he would show him the
16:42
Speaker 2: clips and cuts of what they were filming over and
16:45
Speaker 2: over and over again. And what Connie wanted to do
16:49
Speaker 2: was he wanted to marry the classical musical style and
16:54
Speaker 2: approach that Stallone wanted with the contemporary rock approach that
16:58
Speaker 2: Avilson really wanted. When Avilson and the editors were editing
17:01
Speaker 2: the film, They set the movie to bad company and
17:05
Speaker 2: to Jimi Hendrix, you know, to kind of punch up
17:07
Speaker 2: the fight scenes. So Conti wanted to capture that, but
17:11
Speaker 2: he also wanted to move people's emotions at the same time.
17:14
Speaker 2: So he blended the classical and the contemporary in a
17:18
Speaker 2: soundtrack that, to be honest, I think is the most
17:20
Speaker 2: memorable of any movie that's ever been made.
17:22
Speaker 1: Now, am I crazy to think that, and only because
17:25
Speaker 1: I'm here in Carolina and I grew up in Montana,
17:28
Speaker 1: but when I think of Philadelphia, I think that that's
17:30
Speaker 1: exactly what it looks like in the Rocky movie, in
17:33
Speaker 1: the way that if I were to go to Philadelphia today,
17:35
Speaker 1: I better see what I saw in that movie when
17:37
Speaker 1: I get there. I mean, isn't that weird how that
17:39
Speaker 1: affects us like that?
17:40
Speaker 2: It does. I think it's affected people from Philadelphia, too.
17:44
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we've taken on the persona of Rocky.
17:48
Speaker 2: We've embraced it. But at the same time, Stallone obviously
17:50
Speaker 2: was reflecting on A Philadelphia that he knew and was
17:54
Speaker 2: familiar with. He had lived here for a good bit
17:56
Speaker 2: of his youth. And what's interesting about it is the
18:00
Speaker 2: Philadelphia you see in the original Rocky is the Philadelphia
18:03
Speaker 2: of the early 1970s. 71, 72, 73. By the time
18:07
Speaker 2: the movie came out, the city was on a bit
18:10
Speaker 2: of an upswing. There were more higher-end restaurants in the
18:13
Speaker 2: center city areas. The sports teams, the Flyers, the Phillies,
18:17
Speaker 2: the Eagles, the Sixers were improving and getting to the
18:20
Speaker 2: point that they were going to compete for championships. So
18:22
Speaker 2: everybody was feeling better. People weren't feeling as downtrodden about
18:26
Speaker 2: You know, they're their favorite teams losing every single year.
18:29
Speaker 2: The sound of Philadelphia, you know, that had replaced Motown
18:34
Speaker 2: as the biggest source of black America's pop music hits.
18:39
Speaker 2: So there was a lot going on in the city
18:41
Speaker 2: at the time Rocky comes out and it catches that
18:43
Speaker 2: wave and kind of pushes Philadelphia through the rest of
18:47
Speaker 2: the 70s into a place where you can make a
18:49
Speaker 2: case it was kind of America's city in 1980.
18:51
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, and this is between us,
18:54
Speaker 1: I love the way you said youth because right away
18:57
Speaker 1: I'm going, I can just hear Rocky say that word youth.
18:59
Speaker 1: You said it exactly right. The way somebody from Philadelphia
19:03
Speaker 1: would say youth. I mean, your accent on that was like,
19:05
Speaker 1: Oh my God, that's something that Rocky would say. You
19:09
Speaker 1: spot your spot. I sat up so fast in this chairman.
19:12
Speaker 1: I was like, what?
19:13
Speaker 2: Oh my God. Well, well, let me, let me take
19:16
Speaker 2: a sip of water and I'll, I'll accent the accent
19:19
Speaker 2: even more for you. This is a quintessential Philadelphia movie.
19:24
Speaker 2: And when I watch it, when I, saw I play
19:29
Speaker 2: Rocky when I talked to family members at a family barbecue,
19:32
Speaker 2: that part of me comes out. You know, I, I
19:37
Speaker 2: tell this story all the time that I worked up
19:39
Speaker 2: in New York for three years and I would have
19:42
Speaker 2: people all the time say to me, gosh, does everybody
19:44
Speaker 2: from Philly have the same accent, as strong an accent
19:46
Speaker 2: as you do? And I'd say, dude, you're from Brooklyn, right? Like,
19:50
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? Like you all talk funny
19:53
Speaker 2: up here. This is how we, this is normal speech
19:55
Speaker 2: to me. Come on.
19:58
Speaker 1: You got to come back to this show anytime in
19:59
Speaker 1: the future, man. The door is always going to be
20:02
Speaker 1: open for you.
20:04
Speaker 2: Thanks, Howard. I really appreciate that. I'm glad you enjoyed
20:06
Speaker 2: the book so much.
20:07
Speaker 1: Well, you're basically just igniting my childhood and you're putting
20:11
Speaker 1: me in adult shoes where I'm going, OK, I have
20:13
Speaker 1: a better understanding of why I love this movie. It's
20:16
Speaker 1: not because I'm a freak. It's because it really was
20:18
Speaker 1: that good.
20:19
Speaker 2: No, it was. It was. I mean, it's really a
20:23
Speaker 2: miracle that it got made. The analogy I would draw
20:28
Speaker 2: would be with the movie Jaws. Everybody knows the story
20:31
Speaker 2: that Steven Spielberg couldn't get the mechanical shark to work,
20:35
Speaker 2: so you don't see it for the first hour of
20:37
Speaker 2: the movie. And what happens? The suspense builds. The shark
20:41
Speaker 2: builds in your imagination. The same limitations were there in Rocky,
20:45
Speaker 2: and those limitations... are what make the film so great.
20:49
Speaker 2: It's the way the film looks because John Adelson, the director,
20:53
Speaker 2: had the residents of the Kensington neighborhood of Philadelphia spray
20:57
Speaker 2: hoses and fire hydrants on the streets so that they
21:00
Speaker 2: would be wet and they would glisten at night. And
21:04
Speaker 2: it's stuff like that that makes this film so memorable
21:08
Speaker 2: and so timeless. Wow.
21:10
Speaker 1: You have yourself a brilliant day. I can't wait to
21:12
Speaker 1: talk with you again, sir.
21:15
Speaker 2: Thank you, Arrow. I enjoyed this from start to finish.
21:17
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.