Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Calling All Enneagram Sevens {and their friends}

Transcript

Calling All Enneagram Sevens {and their friends} · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Does motherhood sometimes feel like the greatest adventure ever?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then it suddenly feels really constricting and limiting?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Have you felt a subtle anxiousness about suffering for most of your life?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: If so, you'll appreciate today's conversation as my guest Dory Shannon shares about her motherhood from the perspective as a type seven.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Enneagram sevens are often labeled as enthusiasts.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: And while this is one of their character traits, there is so much more beneath the surface.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why all last month I have been sharing stories from each Enneagram type and their perspective on motherhood, spiritual growth, and what is really going on inside their beautiful minds.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: For this motherhood and Enneagram series, I've invited my personal friends, the ones who've sat in my living room week in and week out, of course, not the quarantine months, and have gone through my Enneagram coaching sessions for moms.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, Dory is going to share her typing journey and how the Enneagram is helping her navigate raising littles and how it reminds her to keep the vision of motherhood that the Lord has given her.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: We also end up diving deep into the struggle for a seven when it comes to battling the real limitations of motherhood.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Dory also shares what it looks like to embrace traditions and how that has brought a lot of life to her motherhood.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, she's gonna share more about the fear of suffering.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is a brilliant perspective.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Don't miss this part of the conversation.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, I have never done anything like this before, but we've been talking on the socials, and it's apparent that some of you are feeling a little stressed about the holidays.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: But this year I want you to take back Christmas and savor the sacred this holiday season, even in light of this crazy year.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And yep, it's been crazy.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: For a small investment, you can be part of a five-day more joy during your Christmas event from November 16th through the 20th.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be going live each day with a practical advice and spiritual wisdom to help you eliminate the overwhelm of this Christmas.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited about the breakthrough that you're gonna experience and the powerful week that we can have together.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be so good.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can find out more at the link in the show notes.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Christian Enneagram coach for moms who loves to share resources which help you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was overwhelmed by motherhood, and I struggled to understand my true motivations.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: But the Lord didn't let me stay there.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: He helped me turn those challenging moments of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my marriage, and my kids.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I share a broken-hearted perspective with story, but with wholehearted purpose and plan so you can live a life full of courage and abundance.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So get to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me first a little bit about your Enneagram journey.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know the full story, it's super fun.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You'll probably give an abbreviated version, but give it to us in a nutshell.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I uh hadn't heard of the Enneagram.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, you know, Skyler, my husband, was the one who first introduced me to it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Some staff members at our church were kind of talking about it, and they're all testing their numbers, and he was like, I think I'm an eight.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, An eight?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And how could there only be nine?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And like it was such a foreign concept.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he had me take this online test and originally tested for a nine, a piece of time.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: No kidding.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, interesting.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I like read about it, I was like, this doesn't fit me at all.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did I test for that?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, okay, I don't know if I believe this Enneagram, you know, I'm taking this online assessment, and that didn't feel like it meant you at all.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I jumped into your small group and we started talking about the Enneagram.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And at first, I think I clung to the seven, you know, as we heard about that, I was like, Oh, that does sound like me, the enthusiast.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then we really started going into depth about it.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was more than just a topic that we'd cover every now and then, because that's how it started.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Snu snuck it in kind of little by little.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right, absolutely.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so this small group is about Enneagram and motherhood.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that following semester, it was like, okay, wait, as I hear about the three, I'm like, wait, this resonates so much with me.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, I mistyped as a three for a while, and I feel like it wasn't until quarantine, really, or well, a little bit before that.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit before, yeah.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I could tell you were starting to question a little bit more that semester.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that I really knew, and I think why I resonated with the three so much was I so resonated with the feeling of needing to prove yourself and not feeling enough.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, oh well, that means I'm a three, you know, as a mom and as someone who is in ministry, it's like I I I want to achieve things and I want to have a significant impact in ministry, in motherhood, and in my world, you know, and that's always been something that I've wanted.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think because I'm naturally goofy, life of the party, enjoy being the center of attention, I mean, and being exuberant and fun, that sometimes that's the only side that people would see of me growing up, or even into my early like college years, if you will.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there are points in my life, specifically around you know, just graduating high school and being in a full-time internship that I was told you're too much and too silly, and you needed to conduct yourself in more of a professional manner.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't say that in a in a negative way or to throw shade, it was kind of like a whole new level of self-awareness of like, you know, like as a kid, you're not aware of those things, and then it's like slowly as you grow up, your self-awareness just starts to grow and grow.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh man.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And because I felt like, you know, when people would describe me or encourage me, it was like the joyful side was all that they saw, and I began to believe that that's all I had to offer.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I've always wanted to make a significant impact and let people know that I do have depth and maturity, but thus began the internal need to prove myself as being mature, deep, intelligent.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to achieve something with my life, I don't want to just have fun.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I think a lot of the confusion came in.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh, I'm a three because I need to prove that I am this or that.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: But then as we began to really delve into the motivations and more specifically the fears of the seven, that's when it became undeniable.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, when I began to think back of my very first year of motherhood, I can see the tension that began to arise.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the struggle was stemming from feeling limited and bored, or you know, losing myself a little bit.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all can relate to that, no matter our Enneagram type.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, if I ever doubted quarantine, definitely confirmed I was a seven.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I felt so squashed by limitation, extremely limited, and stricter isolation and stricter monotony of the mundane of the everyday, you know.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and no in-person gatherings, and I couldn't be with my close friends.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would watch my other mom friends, and they'd be like, you know what, this is actually great.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we needed time with our family, and I'm just like, I do see that, like I'm thankful for that, but then you're you're stuck face to face with someone who tries to run from embracing those feelings of limitation and isolation.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Then you're stuck literally staring face to face with it, and it's like, is anyone else feeling like they're being crushed in this season because I do?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's when I was like, okay, there's no doubt that I am a seven.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's my my journey a little bit.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there have been many tears, many conversations in the midst of this at small group, in front of everybody at the you know, side table with our coffee.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And yes.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it's been so good because what I think is just beautiful about your journey is that you've been so honest and vulnerable along the way that you've been willing to do that with the heart work, you've been willing to take the time for self-awareness, even in the midst of you have two little ones about to have a third little one.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: You will by the time this conversation airs, you have your hands full, life is full.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even specifically for us seven, it would be really easy to just kind of shove off the idea of taking the self-awareness journey and just be like, you know what, I'll just do that later.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really fun right now.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have time for it.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having to access feelings I don't really feel like feeling, and yet you didn't.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: You went ahead and pushed through.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think, and if this makes sense for me, it's like there's certain things that it's like, oh, I can delve into that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's when it turns to other parts of your heart where you're like, oh, you know, the things that you've been denying.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, these topics I could handle and we can go deep and you can address those painful negative thoughts and issues.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's those other ones that you're like, but as long as we don't touch those.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: We'll just leave that alone.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you've been willing to go there, and I think it's just so great.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So give us those of us who lead as a type seven, are interested to know what a day in a life looks like for a type seven, a fellow type seven.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: But also I like to think because the big picture, one of the like top three reasons that Enneagram is beneficial, in particular to the Christian community, is what we can learn from one another.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little story.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: What does your a day in a life look like for you?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I am not your structure person.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I do have a routine.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're you're flourishing.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're flourishing as a type 7.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: You've moved towards that.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I recognize not only my children's need for routine, but my own.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: There is life in that, and there's and actually it frees you up to do the things that you really want to do and that you're passionate about.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so in the beginning of motherhood, I was like, ooh, resist routine, resit, you know, but as I've like, wait, no, nap time is glorious, so we want to fight for this every day.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it might be shocking if I am actually very strict with nap time and getting them down on time because I'm like, So good, that's a time where I get to I get to have my fun.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, so I'd say I have a skeleton of routine, and so yeah, you know, our day starts with waking up and I give them options for breakfast, and the thoughts that are going through my mind is how how do I keep my our schedule full?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Not like overwhelming, but like how do we keep it full of experiences, like not just fun things, but what can I teach them today?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like an adventure for me.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what can we learn today?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And not just for them, but for myself.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll have a general plan for the day, but it's something that I've really learned to embrace in this season of motherhood is really cultivating traditions and seasonal things because it builds fun things that you can look forward to that we need as yes, that's but also children, like things they can look forward to.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like we're in the summer, so the traditions we look forward to revolves around going to the splash pad or mixing up which park we go to that day, and but as we head into the fall, which I really love fall in Kansas City, it's okay, what fall activity do we get to do today?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: What suits can what recipe can I explore?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just want to uncover new things, and so whether it's a new park that we can go to or it's a new recipe that we can explore, a new skill that I can learn them, embracing what can we do that's different today, but we still have our staples, you know.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is when we wake up, this is when we take naps, and so there is consistency, it's just in the few hours that I've scheduled for fun or for learning, then it's mixing it up, allowing my creativity to flourish in that.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I totally resonate and I just am grinning through the whole thing because I'm remembering so well, like that right there.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to have a framework, but one, don't tell me exactly how the framework is supposed to look.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And just know I can mix it up at a drop of a hat.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have 20 different things that can fit with inside that framework.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So depending on the day and how I feel, I can go with it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, I am more strict through the week, like with hey, we're going to nap time on time, we're going to bed on time, so that on the weekends there can be a little more flexibility.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: We can be more spontaneous with the family and do things with friends.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we have some friends who aren't parents yet.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so it offers us that flexibility, and it's not gonna wreck my children because throughout the week they're having consistent naps and consistent bedtime.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if we have a Saturday and a Sunday where the schedule looks a little bit different, they can be flexible and it's not going to completely throw them off track.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, derailing what's happening, you know.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it does.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, that was, I don't know, for me, a big leap into going, oh, I have to plan around napping times.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of thought I was naive and thought, oh, the baby's just gonna sleep when it's supposed to sleep, and I can put it in the carrier and just or strap it on.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it did none of my children did that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know for some parents that has worked for them.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was my desire, it didn't pan out that way at all.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and so therefore, right?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's those of us who want the don't want the limitations.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny how that works.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what would you say is one of the number one stressors in motherhood for you?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um just one, right?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, like motherhood confronts everything that we're afraid of, honestly.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's the feeling limited, it's the fear of missing out, it's the daily repetition of the mundane, it's being unseen, it's the weight.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this one was a lot.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the youngest.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I have one older sister.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even babysit that much.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't work much with kids, and so I didn't have a ton of knowledge coming into motherhood.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And me, I'm not like a grade five who does all the research and reading.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, you know, we'll just see what happens.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just try and find out.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I really had no idea of how much dependency they have on you, especially in infancy to toddlerhood.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: It could sometimes be crushing.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, wow, you demand so much from me, and I wasn't really expecting that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Once I had my second, it was like, okay, there is an end to this season.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it freed me to enjoy it more and to submit to the limitations almost.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can enjoy breastfeeding because it does have an end.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can embrace the sleepless nights because I know that there's an end.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: But with Lauren, my firstborn, it was like, oh my gosh, what is happening?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Will she ever sleep through the night?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Will she ever stop breastfeeding?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And y'all, she breastfed until she was 17 months old.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's a long time.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a long time.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: For me, that's a long time.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was like right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt like, oh, this will never end.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think those are the biggest things that stress you out.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And like I remember right after I had Finley, my secondborn, I felt I was going through a very intense season of healing, which is very hard for a seven because it was like constantly confronting the things that I haven't been wanting to confront.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so emotionally that was taking its toll.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: But then I had a toddler and an infant that required so much.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember I would wake up in the mornings feeling this heavy weight of like these lives depend on me for literally everything.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just a hard season.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, yeah, though that's probably one of my biggest stressors.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: But honestly, I was thinking about this too of like when it comes to sickness.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all, as moms, that's interesting sickness, of like that being an anxiety or a a stress point.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I think it tugs on the anxiety of like the worst case scenario of like, oh, this could turn into this, or what happens if their fever doesn't go down, or I don't know how to handle it, you know, or it turns into it's a crazy disease, like you know, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's carbona.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if I were to be honest, yes, that's part of my anxiety when sickness comes up.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: What I really found was my anxiety would stem from when one of them would get sick and then you have a second one, and now about to have a third, it's like, oh, what am I gonna have to miss out on?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And feeling like there's real anxiety there that a lot of other people may not understand.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because as a mom, there's limited times of social gatherings throughout the week.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're having it's like that's what I thrive off of, that's what fills me up.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: So this anxiety arises when it's oh, they're sick.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: So then Lauren has it, and then Finley gets it, and then this one gets it's like, how long is this gonna be?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a lot of missing out.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's honestly one of my biggest struggles.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is such a good point.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you bring it up because uh for me as well, that was even a childhood thing for me.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't recognize it until I came into understanding what dominant type I actually lead with.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I have shared my story.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of said that my story is gonna be like the podcast Easter egg.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna share little snippets because someone, a couple people said, Hey, we'd love for you to do a podcast about your mistyping journey and everything.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it felt too narcissistic, maybe just too overwhelming to try to share my whole story at one time.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I just said, Okay, it's gonna be the Easter egg, right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I'm sharing a little bit along the way, but that in particular, that was a childhood memory that I suddenly had revelation that that was anxiety because the thing, we're in that triad where anxiety is at the root of so much of what we struggle with.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we're the most in denial that that is what it really is.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why it was hard to identify as a seven, because I thought, no, it's surely it's shame, you know, which is what a three is right, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's anxiety, it's what keeps us up at night, the fear of missing out, the fear of being limited, the fear of being held captive to our circumstances with no way of escape.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like sickness is the ultimate where is this yeah, and for six, it will be the sickness itself in the fear of what it could turn into.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: But the bigger one, I think, for us who lead with that type seven, uh, it it just it's hitting on those core fears in a unique way.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: That I I don't know.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think for for me, that was like one of the longest things to identify was the anxiety about it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually lived with for 40 years and still caring in some form or fashion that I wasn't totally free of because I was in complete denial about it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sky would always wonder why it was such a big deal when I had to miss Wednesday night prayer, or the thought of going, not being able to go to church on Sunday was such a big deal.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, it's okay, just care for your sick babies.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, of course, I have the desire to nurture and care for sick babies, but then it's just like, but you don't understand for you, you could stay at home all week and be great.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Me, I'm like, if I yeah, exactly.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I and like I said, it's like when you only have a certain amount of social interactions in a week, it's like you really count on those.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they're they're big highlights and staples of your week.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so when that's from you, it's like oh yeah, totally.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'll never forget there was a mom who I've I've known just as an acquaintance here in the city, and we'll run into each other every once in a while, very every once random in a while.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was three or four December ago where we had the probably was the norovirus, it would not go away where you know the kids would get it, and then we think we're better, and then get it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we were homeschooling, but we had a co-op at the time.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I hung just my whole like excitement for the week hung on those co-op days.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and again, those homeschool memories are great.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: But all of that to say, it took us out for probably three or four weeks.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember oh my gosh.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I had like a free drink to Starbucks or something.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think they weren't even totally better, but I was like, I have to get out of here.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I bloated the kids in the car because they weren't old enough to leave home yet.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I ran into Starbucks, and that woman saw me and she's like, Well, hey, how are you?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, actually, I've been home for like three weeks.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: My kids are sick.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just here trying to get my free drink.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Oh, it's like going to Disneyland for you today, isn't it?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yep, pretty much.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: That describes it very well.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, for the for those who are listening and who love an Enneagram type seven, that's where we're coming from.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: When our kids are threatened to be sick, it's not really the fear of the sickness itself.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about all the things that are connected to it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it took me a while to pin that down myself.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you feel guilty for that.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm well, I'm wrong for feeling, you know, at least for me, it was like I struggled with.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was in denial from that because I felt if I actually come to terms with that's what's fueling my anxiety, then that's wrong.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there's something wrong, you know.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: But we each have our struggles and our fears and anxieties.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so instead of trying to deny it and feel shame about it, it's like, okay, let's just address it for what it is, and then we can find freedom and walk toward freedom in that, you know.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so good because I think since I've been able to identify that as well, the Lord has been able to meet me in that place and help me walk down the worst-case scenario and then also show me how he brings light to a dark situation because getting sick for a family, any size family, it can be a big deal and can feel like a dark time.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yet God has always shown himself faithful and in silly things like, you know, going and getting a Starbucks drink, you know, uh the whatever those little things are that are just reminders of how he breaks through, not only in the spiritual sense, but mentally to bring peace to the anxiety, but then also physically and practically that he does meet the needs that we have because he created us with those needs, not to just flail and wander and live in distress all the time that those needs aren't getting met.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: He he did actually provide a solution and he provided a way.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of touched on one of the questions is one of the biggest revelations about how your personality has made your motherhood journey unique.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have anything else you wanted to add to that?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to give you space for that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I did want to hit on the, you know, for a long time, I kind of hitting back on feeling guilt for what my anxiety stemmed from.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's in so many ways in my motherhood have I felt that like because of my spontaneity and my love for adventure and fun and you know, all of the things, it's like I felt a ton of mom guilt, and I felt wrong for the way that I've mothered in so many ways.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And until I actually identified, well, this is who I've been created to be, and identified, knowing a seven, it was like, wow, oh, this makes sense why I am the way that I am.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's not wrong, but it's like, how can I then take the things that I need to grow in and grow in those?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: But how can I make superpowers out of who I am and make that a superpower in the way that I mother?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so good.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me, it's like what I do have to offer is a unique and different variety of experiences for my kids.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that they're gonna feel like they experience some fullness of life, like, and that's what I want, and that's what I want for them.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I want them to feel like they experience a lot and they look back on their childhood with such fondness of like, you know, not perfection because I am far from perfect, and and none of us can attain that, but with fondness of like, man, with mom, we got to experience so many things, and we have these special traditions, and we would go on vacation and just remember the fun that we had and the memories, you know, because when I look back at my childhood, the things that stuck out to me were when my dad would drive me to school, we'd make up these elaborate stories, and we just pick up where we left off every day.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can both look back and both say that those were some of our favorite times growing up, like when I was in my you know elementary days.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have that to offer with wonder and childlike faith, and guarding that in my children and guarding their wonder.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want them to grow up cynical and bitter toward the world, but I want them to always see and not denying that there's pain and that there's hard things that they will face, because they will face hard things, but where's the hope in that?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And where can I find joy in that?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think something that I have to offer is they are already learning and will learn is flexibility and adaptability, and almost resiliency is that a word?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Resiliency, yeah.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it is to what life throws at them.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, you gotta roll with the punches, things will disappoint and things will change, but let's be flexible and adaptable, and yeah, that's good.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: That will make you a successful adult and a successful leader, which is what I also want them to be.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just good adults, but leaders.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's that eight week talking.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, must be.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, before we get to a few rapid fire questions that I have here, safe for the end.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: How do you deal with conflict with your kids?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And what's great is that obviously you're gonna have a newborn here, but you have Lauren.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you have Finley for that matter, too, who are a little bit older.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: So just share their ages real quick and what it looks like for you when you're faced with conflict or discipline with them.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So Lauren is my firstborn, she's four years old.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: My secondborn, Finley, he just turned two in July, and then obviously I'm pregnant with my third.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, oh, conflict.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I love to avoid it.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: You and me both sister.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Though Spencer disagrees all the time, he's like, whatever, you don't avoid it.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I try to get through it quickly.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have to learn to slow down and actually like, okay, what's the real issue?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, I'm just like, all right, let's stop.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, let's be happy.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, they're learning to share right now because that's what our conflict is right now.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Finley brings out his train set, and he'll have played with it for an hour, and all of a sudden Lauren's wanting to play with it, and he just starts screaming because she's taking something he's been content with for an hour.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I tell Lauren, hey, go grab a different toy, we have a thousand.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but I want this one.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, of course.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, I guess my approach is like putting the pause with a spin.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you have all of these princesses and all of these toys.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I have to learn to slow down and and really take time because mine is like, well, let's just get back to being at peace with one another and having fun and like slowing down and really, okay, what is the issue here?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And how can I make this into a learning moment, not just oh, stop, okay, let's get through this.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd say that my struggle and conflict has and disciplining my children is let's just get through it quickly.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's not that.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, a lot of times it's not that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's inconvenient and it's annoying, and they're just like right now, I'm just trying to learn to get them to not scream, like say no, thank you, and then let's talk about it.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, okay, I've gotta slow down.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And specifically with Lauren, it's like I've noticed that when she's acting up a lot more, it's because she's feeling a lack of connection with me.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I start getting frustrated with her, it's like, oh no, this is actually a signal from you of like you need connection with me.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's as easy as just taking her on my lap, and other times it's like, okay, let's go get coffee, because that's our thing.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is I love that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's so great.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: We go get coffee, and yes, she has decaf for all you it's all right.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's just connecting with her and okay, what's really going on?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're just needing to talk, you're just needing to be heard.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I love that.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so good because we want to move through the hard things faster, and we have the ability to move through faster, can be a superpower.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact that you have the revelation that to flourish as a mom as a type seven, it means taking the time to slow down and go to the heart level, explore those feelings, being willing to engage with the hard stuff because that's hard, that feels painful.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Slow is just almost painful.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um for most type sevens, I would say that word is like, ugh, slow.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's speed this up.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, come on, date.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so good.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I've watched you with Lauren and Finley, and I can't wait to see you with this new one.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's going to be such a gift and such a blessing to your family.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: But you're a wonderful mom.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: You do an amazing job.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And well, and you know, we're just getting to learning that.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I'm still so new and in navigating conflicts, and you know, because I feel like Finley, you know, he's just getting to the point where they interact more.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm still in a huge learning curve.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as we are, but you you have something figured out that I think will serve you really, really well as you keep it at the forefront of your mind, which is key.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there's Coach Amy.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just put on my hat for a second.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're doing a good job.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, real quick, a couple rapid fire questions.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: What is the soul care thing or routine that helps you feel like you're thriving?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's I wake up before my kids.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: I have to.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and that's time with the Lord.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so that can look differently, but it's usually now this was hard for me, but it's sitting in silence and hearing what he has to say, opening the word.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I realize I feel more vision and excitement and empowerment in the day by having that time.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when I wake up to my kids, that's when I begin to feel that overwhelming burden of, oh, they have all these needs.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: But when I start with the Lord, then it's like, okay, no, I can meet like through him, I can meet these needs and I can handle the demands of what they require of me today.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a huge one.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have a unique dynamic in my marriage and motherhood where my husband works from home and has long before COVID.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so during his lunchtime, which is during my kids' nap, I can leave.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I get coffee shops, which is my sense of adventure these days, is going to new coffee shops.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'll either stick to a favorite that I love that I know has a great aesthetic, or I just hit that day where I'm like, okay, it's time to try something new, which was yesterday.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Fun!
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: What did you try?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was actually gonna go to the new Parisi downtown Overland Park.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: They closed early for some reason, so I was like, you can go to Homer's because it was right across the street, and I've never been it.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been either.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely not the my favorite, but it was fun to explore and try something new.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, for me it's having consistent time where I get to be by myself and try something new.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: I thrive in being alone in public, so still around people.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, that's still a soul care thing.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Something to combat the silence a little bit, which is so funny because silence is super important, yeah.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, for us just in our soul care practices, but to kind of be in silence, but with the ambient noise, if you will.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's a fun way to do it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And one more thing I think I would put on that is throughout my week is making room for play dates with other moms, but also making room, aside from my responsibilities of leading small groups or even being a part of small groups, which I love, is making time each week.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's usually one night or one evening or one Sunday or you know, Saturday afternoon, is getting out with a friend without kids.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a big one where I feel like I'm getting connection and I'm getting a social outlet, you know, with a friend.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I try, you know, Skylar and I are really great about carving out, making a plan in our week to where we both can do that and then where we both have time together.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you guys have a really great routine with that and share that load really well.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And Skylar's good about it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he tell us what type he leads as again.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: My husband is a dominant type eight.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's no question about it.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: He is your typical uh nobody is I if you know Skylar, no one would doubt he's an eight.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we kind of are thinking Lauren might be following in Daddy Swiss steps on that one.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm seeing it.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: She's great.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: We love her.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: She's a good getter.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: It is great, but it's very different from me.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: It is all right.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I thought this was really fun.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: A while back, Gabby Barker, whom is a mutual friend of ours, but she loved the idea of having people share what their spiritual growth book was and what they recommend.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: So what spiritual growth book has impacted you the most and you think, and what would you think is perfect for a fellow type seven?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can't say there's one the most because I don't like being limited to picking a favorite.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for the season that I'm in and the one that I've most currently read, it's actually a study, Bible study, and it's called I Do Hard Things.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's by Havela Cunnington.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: She's one of my favorites.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that alone, that title alone, will hit every seven in the face.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I do hard things, and it talks about confronting fear and pain in your life and not seeing it as this awful thing that we have to do.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: But there's this quote actually from it that I wrote down and cling to, and it's tell your heart that the fear of suffering is worse than suffering itself.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it just kind of talks on that.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: That for me, that quote is like, oh man, that resonates so deeply with me.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because I think it's one of our core fears, suffering.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so dwelling on the fear of potential suffering is worse than suffering itself.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's a word for a seven or a nine in particular, I think uh that would resonate the most, which is just interesting because that kind of goes back to full circle.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: You tested originally as a nine.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think in this conversation, I hear threads in your story how the seven and the nine could potentially be mistyped.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the nine is a withdrawing stance and the seven is an assertive stance, but there would be similar things of wanting to escape you know, fear, pain, conflict, some of those.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: And my sister is a nine.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's interesting because you look at struggles we had with our parents or different childhood wounds, it's like they're very similar, but so different at the same time.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've seen that as we both come into more knowledge and confidence of our leading type.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: One last question.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: As you've explored what it looks like to live and flourish and thrive as a type seven, what are some of those things that you either do or that you know that you're asking the Lord to work on?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we've named kind of a few of them really throughout this conversation, but how would you sum that up?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that is huge for me, especially in the mundane of motherhood in this current season that I'm in, which is full hands-on motherhood.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in the beginning, the Lord actually gave me the verse in Habakkuk 2, too, where it talks about keeping the vision before you, like write it out on tablets that the future generations can run with that.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me and for fellows, type sevens, is keep the vision of why you're doing what you're doing, of motherhood before you.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it looks like I have little note cards or my journals.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you make I literally have a whole bookshelf of journals, just of my history with the Lord and promises and just prayers and all the things, but it's my vision when I feel like I don't want to do this hard thing in motherhood, or I don't want to spend another day changing diapers and doing the same thing over and over again.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Then I look back at the vision of why.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so keeping the vision before you write it out where you can see it, where it's in the forefront.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a huge thing.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I also wanted to touch on this seeing your limitations in a different way, and this is a huge lesson that I have learned in the season of coronavirus and quarantine.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I just wrote that limitations are God's veiled opportunities for Him to reveal the realm of plenty just beyond our limitations.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's actually when we meet face to face with our own or life's limitations, where we can begin to embrace the fullness of you know what he has to offer.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a verse in Isaiah 55 where it talks about come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters, and you who have no money, come buy wine and milk without cost and without money.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Why spend money on bread and your labor on what does not satisfy?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to me, eat what is good, and you will delight in the richest of fare.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just talks about filling up on what really satisfies.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's actually when we are met face to face with our limitations that we begin to experience the fullness of life in Christ and not in experiences in doing fun things and going on adventures, which those are great, and we still need that.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: But there is richness and fullness in Christ.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: This was so good.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is rich.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's gonna bless everyone who gets to listen to it, whether they are as someone who leads us as someone or someone who has a good friend or is married to one or has a sibling or a parent that just can help understand the things that are going on in their heart and in their mind a little bit more.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well, thank you so much for letting me be a part of it.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am so grateful Dory was willing to share with us.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm confident that no matter what type you lead with, that there was much to glean and meditate on.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you like this episode or this Enneagram and Motherhood series, I bet you have a friend or two who would as well.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Please share this episode.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or take a snapshot of this episode and share it with your friends on Instagram stories.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure and tag at Simply Wholehearted so I can give you a follow.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: It would mean the world to me if you could take a minute and leave a five-star review so others can learn about the show.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now maybe as you listened, you were wishing that you could join our mom's group.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know in 2020, meeting and gathering with other moms has been super challenging.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: While I work on something special with you and mine, I've created an ebook from the perspective of motherhood as it relates to the Enneagram.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've packed it full of helpful information to not only understand your core fears and weaknesses, but also how each type is uniquely gifted for motherhood.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, I've shared specific challenges, reflection questions, and true statements that I use to lead my clients to more freedom in their life.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can read it on your phone or print it out and refer to it as you listen through this entire podcast series on Enneagram and motherhood.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to know that you are the mom for the job.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm here to champion you to love it.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: So until next time, continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.