Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1273 - Do We Give In? What to Do When the Kids Push Too Hard

Transcript

#1273 - Do We Give In? What to Do When the Kids Push Too Hard · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: So there's three ways that we can respond to our kids'
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: challenging behavior. Whether it's kids at phones, kid's gaming, whether
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the kids are absconding, running away, breaking rules, just having
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: big bad attitudes. Three ways we can respond to the
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: challenging behavior and have the discipline conversation. Today, on the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast, we examine those three ways and give
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: you some clear direction on what to do when things
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: are getting rough at home with the kids. Good they
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. It's where you get
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: real parenting solutions every day. This is Australia's most downloaded
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: parenting podcast. We Adjusted and Kylie Couson and Kylie, this
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: is a hard one for us because we've never had
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: any children who have ever really needed to have discipline right,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: have us guide them so that they can make better decisions.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: No experience in the area at all.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Our six daughters have always been perfect and have given
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: us not a moment of grief or worry. I can't
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: even say it. Oh my goodness me. Do we just
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: give in? Do we play hardball? What's the right way
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: to do this? Kylie? We're going to examine the three
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: most common I mean, there are more options than what
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about. But we're going to examine
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the three most common options that parents step into when
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the kids are being really challenging. Let's start with option
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: number one. We give in. We just throw our hands
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: up in the air and say it's all too hard.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: You obviously know better than me. You seem to be
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: able to see things much more clearly than I do.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I've got no idea because I'm old and ancient. Whatever
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you decide for yourself.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And the challenge with this approach is just the fact
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: that we're actually choosing short term peace, yes, avoiding through
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: long term chaos and challenge. What inevitably happens too often
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: when we take this approach, and it's not the approach
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: we want, but we're taking the easy road in the moment,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: is we actually create a news for ourselves. Late on,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the struggles get bigger and more challenging, and when the
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: boundaries shift and our kids recognize that there's more rigal room,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: they keep pushing against those boundaries. Often.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the Josh Ship. He's an American youth speaker,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: and he gives great talks, really smart guy, and he
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: uses that metaphor of when you're on the roller coaster,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what you call it, the harness.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: The harness comes down on your knees or against your chest,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: and it pushes really hard and it's restrictive. And our
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: initial our reaction is I want to push back against this. Yeah,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: but he says, we're not pushing back against it because
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: we don't want it there. We're pushing back against it because, well,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: it might be a bit uncomfortable, but we need it
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: to stay there and stay firm in spite of us
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: pushing against it, because it's going to save our lives.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: He argues that our teenagers are a bit the same.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: They're pushing and they're saying they don't want it there,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: but they really do. They want to make sure that
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: it's going to stay firm.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: And I guess the challenge for so many parents is
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: we have this desire to have this friction free relationship
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: with our children.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't exist.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: We want to be friends with them. We want to
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: have that kind of reciprocal to and fro with our kids,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: and we think that the way we achieve that is
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: by allowing them to do the things that they want.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: To do, which we call permissiveness. Let's be honest. I mean,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: we could charitably call it pick your battles, but often
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: when we adopt this approach, we don't pick any battles
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: at all. We just will fight that another day.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I remember having a conversation with one of our kids'
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: school teachers at one point and I said, well, last
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: week we were on good terms. This week we are
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: the worst people in the world.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: She hates us.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: And he half jokingly but quite seriously, just said, if
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: your children, at some point in their lives don't hate you,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: then you're not doing your job right. Our job is
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: actually to provide stability, structure, and boundaries for our kids.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: And being kids, they will often see that as you
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: being unkind, uncaring, unfeeling, and as a result we become
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: the enemy and the relationship. But it's actually what they need.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I often say to parents, boundaries matter. It's not what
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the boundary is, it's how you implement it that makes
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  Speaker 1: the biggest difference. Permissiveness is about not implementing the boundaries.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: This is the given option option number one. I see
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  Speaker 1: it a lot. Why because, like you said, Kylie, we
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: just we want to choose peace. We just want everyone
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: to just leave us alone where we're exhausted. We've got
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: too much going on, and now the kids have got
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: all this energy for this thing that we just don't
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: have the same level of energy and enthusiasm for what
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: they want to fight about, and so we give in.
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  Speaker 1: Not helpful, not productive, not effective, not good for our kids'
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: long term outcomes.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: You tapped into something really important there. It seems that
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: when our kids need those boundaries the most is at
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: the point in our day or in our lives where
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: we don't have the capacity. And often that's when we
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: become most permissive because it's just like, just get out
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: of my hair, yes, go do it whatever, and we
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: don't have the time or the head space or the
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: thought processing to actually navigate that space with clarity.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Great thing about problems, they last. So if you don't
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: have the capacity to do with the problem today, the
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: problem will still exist tomorrow, like it'll hang around until
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: you deal with the problem. And that's kind of putting
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: a positive spit on problems. But I like it because
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: it means that as a parent, we often think that
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: we have to fix everything now, and we don't. We
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: can kick it down the road, we can deal with
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: it later. It's not a problem to do with it later.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: In fact, it's quite good to do with it later.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of that, all right. Our second
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: most common strategy for dealing with kids being belligerent and
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: annoying and incessantly asking for more, Rather than going with
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: giving in, we go with the hell no. That's strategy
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: number two. Strategy number one given hard core.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Just souoritarian approach is my way or the highway.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: My feedback on this is that I actually would have
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: struggled with this, and I'll tell you why. I meet
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: so many people who say, yeah, but it works worked
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: on me. My parents only ever had to do that
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: thing once. They punish me. They punished me hard, they
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: punished me quickly. They linked it directly to what I'd done.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Never did it again. And when you hear that, it's like,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it's good, it doesn't mean it's right.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: But I mean, sometimes it can be really effective. Not
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: endorsing it, I'm just highlighting this is the logic that
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of people will have, and this is why
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: they go with the hell no, authoritarian style.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: So the challenge I have with this approach is that
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: while it might work in the moment. What it essentially
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: does is it takes away our children's ability to self regulate.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: We've actually taken the choice away from them. And there
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: are certain experiences, challenges, situations that we actually need to
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: step in and have a hard no like that is
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: our job.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: We are the prefrontal cortex of the Fanly the kids
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: don't always think things through well.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: But there are plenty of times where this approach is
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: used and it's not needful if we're able to give
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: our children the opportunity to start thinking, because you can
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: police them while you're with them, but once you're not there,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: they're not going to go with a hell no.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: The question is how do you get to discipline without damage?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: So the missive structure, the giving in, that creates one
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: form of damage. The hell no authoritarian my way of
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: the highway that creates a different kind of damage.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: And depending on the personality of your child. You have
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: a submissive child, then they just accept it and they
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: kind of carry on with life.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: But if you have an opposition or child I do.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I've watched this happen.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: This ruptures relationships in really significant ways.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes lifelong ruptures like massive blow ups. After the break,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about our third idea instead of
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: giving in, instead of handing out a hell no. And
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: let's be honest, sometimes both of those can work, and
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: sometimes we need both of those the one that's most
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: effective right after the break. Okay, so we're dealing with
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the question of do we give in, do we just
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: acquiesced we let the kids have whatever they want? Do
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: we push back hard and say I'm the parent, You'll
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: do things my way because I know better than you.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I've climbed forty three rungs on the ladder of life.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: You've only climbed nine, and so therefore I can see
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: things that you can't see. Or is there a better way?
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Hell no, give in or work with them. That's our
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: third alternative today, And surprise, this is the one that
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: we're going to advocate for, the one that we encourage,
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  Speaker 1: the one that we endorse. Why because it's a little
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: bit harder, but it works way better.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I was just going to say you saying that
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about every time poor parent out there has
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: just gone you mean, more work.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing, fast as slow and slow as
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: fast when you go with the giving in approach or
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: the hell no approach, you have to just keep on
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: dealing with we visited, so with a give in, it
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: just becomes an incessant annoyance, and your kids become increasingly
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: likely to push boundaries because they're looking for where the
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: boundary is, and so you're constantly being tested if you
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: go with the hell no, the kids are constantly pushing
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: against it. But I want some freedom. I want some
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: choice in my life. When we do a working with approach,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: it might be slower at the start, but it gets
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: faster down the track. Fast is slow, slow is fast.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: And for those who have not heard this yet, although
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: we talk about it in the pot a lot, the
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: best way to work with your kids is to explore,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: explain in power. I call it the three eas of
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: effective discipline. Kids want a gaming console, Kids want a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: new phone. Kids want to be able to stay out late.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Kids want to be able to do it, doesn't matter
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: what it is.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Go to a friend's party, they want to have a sleepover.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, three ease, let me explore what's actually going on
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: for you. Let me explain what I'm worried about or
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: what I'm concerned about. Let's see if we can empower you.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Let's come up with a solution together we can both
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: feel good about. So we recently had this going on
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: with our year twelve daughter. She wanted to go to
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: a camp site and hang out with all of a
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: friends camping across a long weekend, and we said we
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: really wanted to say hell no, but part of us
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: were like, why, she's nearly an adult, and there was
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: that sort of maybe we should just give in. But
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: instead we sat down and we explored, explained, and powder
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: we worked with her and we said, all right, tell
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: us more about it. What are the dates, who's going,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: how many couple are going to be there? Will there
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: be alcohol? Tell us about access to emergency services, like
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: what if something goes wrong, You're nearly two hours away
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: from us. Turns out she's going to be two hours
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: away from us at a place that's only accessible by
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: four will drive, has no mobile fun coverage, and there's
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: a bunch of kids who are going to be taking alcohol.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Plus there's a handful of couples, only ten kids in total,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and the whole thing. We just looked at it and said,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: there's a couple of really big red flags for us,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: But overarchingly the fact that we can't contact you and
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: you need a full drive to get in and out,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: which means that you're at the mercy of other people
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: who may be drinking alcohol. For us, it's just to
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: we don't feel good about this at all situation. What
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: can we come up with that helps you to feel
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: good about it, but also satisfies our concerns for your welfare.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: After all, you're under eighteen, you're not an adult, and
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: we are responsible for keeping you safe.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: The conversation went over a couple of days because we
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: had to revisit this a number of times. She really
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: wanted to be able to spend time with her friends,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: and there's been some changes to the social structure in
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: her friendship groups.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, this was important.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: This is her trying to, I guess, insert herself. And
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: we continue to talk about it, and I think that
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: deep down she knew it was going to be a no,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: but she really wanted to continue having the conversation, just
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: with that little glimmer of hope that maybe we might,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: maybe we might acquiesce. As we continue talking, I actually
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: said to her, I'm really struggling to make a decision
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: on this, I said, because I recognize you're nearly eighteen,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: you get you know, in a few months time, you
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: actually get to make the decision around this, I said,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: but you're not quite there yet, and so right now
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I feel really uncomfortable about X, Y and Z. I said,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: what would you do if you were in our position
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: and this was your daughter? And she looked at me
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: and she said, I actually don't know, and I said, yeah,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: that's where I'm sitting. I said, so, based on the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: fact that these are my concerns and I'm just feeling
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: a little bit unsettled by it, I think I have
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: to say.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: No, Yeah, it's not a hell yes, we don't feel
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: safe enough about it, But it's not a.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Hell no either. It's just a I can't feel peaceful
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: about this. I said, what would it look like. Do
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: you think if maybe you just went and hung out
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: with them for the day. Do you think you could
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: do that and still feel like you're part of it
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: and not missing out? And she said, yeah, I probably
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: could do that. Well. As a result, that was actually
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: the decision we made. But over the next few days,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: as more and more information came to her, she realized
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: that it actually wasn't going to work, and she didn't
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: want to do it, And what I have been actually
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: really surprised about. This was something that she really pushed
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: hard for. But because we chose to stand strong together,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: we were unified in this decision, and I think that
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: that's really important.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: And we worked with her on it, like we gave
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: her a voice and a sense that this was something
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: we're wrestling with. We're not just dismissing it out of hand.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: We're really wrestling with this.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: She has actually come around so beautifully in the acknowledgment
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that she thinks we made the right decision. Yeah, and
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: she's at peace with it. There's no feeling of I'm
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: missing out or But.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: The critical thing here is you might listen to that
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: story and go, oh, my goodness, how nice is that
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: for you? Obviously perfect outcome, But you're much more likely
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: to get that perfect outcome when you don't go with
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: a hell no, and you don't go with that I'm
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: just going to give it and let you do it
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: when you actually say, well, we've got a problem to solve.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, the best discipline it's not about hurting your kids.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: The best discipline isn't about I don't know, punishing them
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: or coming with consequences, Nor is it being las a
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: fair and letting them do whatever. The best discipline is
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: saying there's a problem to solve, how can we solve
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: in a way it works for everybody? And if we
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: can't solve it in a way that works for everybody,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: sometimes as a parent you do actually step in and say, well,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I have to use my judgment. My job is to
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: keep you safe. Therefore, the decision is this. But we
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: can revisit again soon and see what else we can
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: come up with to make this work. If you've got
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: any more ideas, let's play.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: And I think that's key, just the acknowledgment that if
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: you can't come up with a decision on day one,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: it's okay to take problems and to reassess tomorrow or
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: the next day or even next week.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Great thing about problems, they just hang around.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: We need to wrap it up there. Thanks so much
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: for listening. More information and more resources available in my
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Brilliant Book The Parenting. Can I say that about my
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: own book? Or is that a little bit too self congratulatory?
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Is isn't it?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think so?
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: You don't, okay? My brilliant book The parenting. Revolution has
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: got all the stuff about how to have those conversations
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and what those three e's look like. Pairing and Revolution
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: available wherever you get good books. Our time is done.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Justin rule On from Bridge Media
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: for being a wonderful producer making a Happy Families podcast
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: to sound so good. Have a great day.