Latest / The You Project / #1729 Farmer Dave - David Graham

Transcript

#1729 Farmer Dave - David Graham · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Good eighteen. Welcome to another installing the view project to
0:03
Speaker 1: taps his necho chamber. It's Melissa, Melissa, Hello, how are you? Yeah? Good?
0:10
Speaker 1: I feel like I've done this very recently. Why would
0:13
Speaker 1: that deja vou vibe be happening? Do you think? Because
0:17
Speaker 1: your microphone was doing something really strange and so we
0:20
Speaker 1: thought we might need to redo the intro quickly. So
0:24
Speaker 1: it makes sense that is true. Sorry for interrupting there
0:27
Speaker 1: as I do so we've already done the interview with
0:30
Speaker 1: farmer David. He was bloody amazing. I have a big
0:34
Speaker 1: man crush on him, and I do have that capacity
0:38
Speaker 1: as we all know. But he is so fucking great.
0:42
Speaker 1: I thought he'd be really good, but it starts off
0:46
Speaker 1: good and it gets better and better. I love this episode.
0:50
Speaker 1: He's doing, like his backstory, his story with his story
0:54
Speaker 1: growing up on farms. I don't want to ruin it,
0:57
Speaker 1: but there are so many good things in here. The
0:59
Speaker 1: work that he's done animals, he's love for animals, and
1:01
Speaker 1: now the incredible work that he's doing with kids between
1:05
Speaker 1: twelve and seventeen who are really struggling, very very hands on,
1:09
Speaker 1: very at the coal face. Yeah, beautiful conversation. Beautiful dude
1:14
Speaker 1: doing awesome work. I'm pretty sure you will be inspired
1:19
Speaker 1: by him. Melissa, can I can I go now? Am I? A?
1:22
Speaker 2: We? A?
1:23
Speaker 1: We clear? We will start the show now, all right,
1:25
Speaker 1: let's start the show. Farmer Dave, Melissa and well, what's
1:29
Speaker 1: his actual name, Dave Graham? I think, okay, farmer Dave.
1:36
Speaker 1: Now I don't even know where to start. I'm thinking,
1:38
Speaker 1: I'm looking at all your stuff. I'm like, that's quite
1:40
Speaker 1: the fucking bio. It's not your typical LinkedIn bio. I'll
1:45
Speaker 1: give you that. Yeah, why don't you give us your bio?
1:49
Speaker 1: Why don't you let me get in the jacuzzi? And
1:51
Speaker 1: why don't you give us whatever you want wherever you
1:55
Speaker 1: want to go? Give us the David Graham slash Farmer
1:59
Speaker 1: Dave bio that you reckon the world might be interested,
2:03
Speaker 1: I mean, that'd be interested in all of it. But
2:05
Speaker 1: just where.
2:06
Speaker 2: I go, where I'm at right now is helping kids
2:10
Speaker 2: get back on track. And you know, sometimes it's dealing
2:14
Speaker 2: with five kids in a day, sometimes dealing with twenty
2:17
Speaker 2: kids in a day, and whatever they need, I'm there
2:21
Speaker 2: for them. And I think my bios kind of got
2:24
Speaker 2: me in that stead. I grew up, like so many
2:30
Speaker 2: Australians of the older generations, on a station about forteen
2:34
Speaker 2: hours northwest of Sydney, about six hours west of Brisbane,
2:38
Speaker 2: near near a town called Gundawindy. So not your typical childhood,
2:45
Speaker 2: but the most splendid childhood of just no town for
2:49
Speaker 2: one hundred kilometers and just growing up with your dogs,
2:52
Speaker 2: your horses, and that was my job, is just looking
2:54
Speaker 2: after all of them for a fairly large cattle and
2:57
Speaker 2: cropping station about one hundred thousand acres and youngest of
3:00
Speaker 2: eleven kids. So I was kind of a forgotten one
3:05
Speaker 2: because by the time you get to eleven, you kind
3:07
Speaker 2: of over it when it comes to parenting. So my
3:09
Speaker 2: parents were quite elderly and kind of over it and tired.
3:16
Speaker 1: Quite elderly and tired by the time they got to
3:18
Speaker 1: you exactly.
3:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Dad, every time he bought another farm, he'd
3:22
Speaker 2: have another kid to make sure that he's got slave
3:24
Speaker 2: labor in the future to run it. So yeah, it
3:27
Speaker 2: was an awesome childhood. And I was so fortunate to
3:30
Speaker 2: be able to learn from your old stockmen and these
3:33
Speaker 2: guys that have been connected to the land for their
3:36
Speaker 2: whole lives and their whole existence and really built me
3:41
Speaker 2: ready for a really well rounded education in the bush.
3:45
Speaker 2: And then went off to boarding school, like you all
3:48
Speaker 2: have to do, and that was a real sledge hammer
3:52
Speaker 2: to the face because my first boarding school was co ed.
3:54
Speaker 2: But then I went to another one which was an
3:58
Speaker 2: international school and which was fantas but didn't quite have
4:01
Speaker 2: the education that my dad wanted. He wanted a military
4:05
Speaker 2: type education for me because he thought that I was
4:08
Speaker 2: learning too much, and so he sent me to an
4:11
Speaker 2: all boys grammar school. And that was a real sledgehammer.
4:14
Speaker 2: And you know, like when you're when you're a gay person,
4:17
Speaker 2: you're the last person to know, and I was definitely
4:20
Speaker 2: the last person to know and found out from a
4:22
Speaker 2: lot of my peers that I was gay. And it
4:24
Speaker 2: was a very brutal, brutal and unkind period of my life.
4:29
Speaker 2: But I survived it. I don't know how, but yeah,
4:32
Speaker 2: there was way too many times where I didn't want
4:36
Speaker 2: to keep living. So I really have that understanding now
4:39
Speaker 2: with the kids that I work with, knowing exactly what
4:43
Speaker 2: it's like when you just don't want to be alive anymore.
4:45
Speaker 2: But luckily I had dogs and I had the bush
4:47
Speaker 2: and I got through. And then when Jack Ruing, the
4:51
Speaker 2: problem is when you're working for your old man's company,
4:54
Speaker 2: the lot of the stockmen take out their frustrations on
4:58
Speaker 2: the boss's sons. It was from the frying pan to
5:03
Speaker 2: the fire when it came to Jack Ruing. But I
5:05
Speaker 2: did something I shouldn't have done, and that is flogged.
5:08
Speaker 2: Flogged a car, and with my mates we honed off
5:11
Speaker 2: to Sydney and I came across a few modeling scouts
5:15
Speaker 2: and they all suggested that I had what it took
5:18
Speaker 2: to do modeling, and then I ended up saying yes
5:23
Speaker 2: to the next one that came along. And then probably
5:25
Speaker 2: about a week later, after returning the car, I was
5:28
Speaker 2: modeling the catwalks of Europe, and suddenly my whole world
5:32
Speaker 2: had changed, you know, from going from a station life
5:35
Speaker 2: to a boarding school life. And then I was opened
5:38
Speaker 2: up to this whole new world that I didn't know existed.
5:41
Speaker 2: And I had a very masculine child and a very
5:43
Speaker 2: masculine boarding school experience, and then to be opened up
5:46
Speaker 2: to the world of fashion and meeting people from every
5:49
Speaker 2: part of the world. And that's what happens in modeling.
5:50
Speaker 2: You know, you've got people from Eastern Europe and the
5:52
Speaker 2: Americas and a few Australians. But yeah, it really opened
5:58
Speaker 2: up my idea that there was a lot more to
6:01
Speaker 2: learn and a lot of what I've been told and
6:03
Speaker 2: led to believe in the one party state of Southern
6:06
Speaker 2: Queensland probably wasn't true. And I very much so went
6:11
Speaker 2: on a journey after that. I traveled to about eighty
6:15
Speaker 2: countries backpacking and just wanted to really find out what
6:21
Speaker 2: the lives of other people were, because it was quite
6:25
Speaker 2: different to what I've been told as a kid how
6:27
Speaker 2: the world was, you know, it was always at them
6:29
Speaker 2: and us type childhood. But that kind of really exploded
6:34
Speaker 2: my ability to know that, you know, you've always got
6:36
Speaker 2: to do something, to know something.
6:38
Speaker 1: That's amazing, mate. That is such a bloody incredible story.
6:42
Speaker 1: And isn't it funny how like when you grow up
6:46
Speaker 1: in like you grew up in a very specific environment
6:48
Speaker 1: with you know, like not too many people grew up
6:51
Speaker 1: in that environment on a hundred thousand acre farm with
6:54
Speaker 1: ten siblings and who also, how old were you when
6:58
Speaker 1: you realized you were gay? Oh?
7:00
Speaker 2: Look when I accepted it early twenties.
7:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then but all of that, right, and but
7:07
Speaker 1: also the programming with the education and your dad's expectation,
7:10
Speaker 1: and I'm on something more military and these are the rules,
7:13
Speaker 1: and you follow our rules, and this is the way
7:15
Speaker 1: the world is, David. This is the way the world is, David.
7:18
Speaker 1: And my way off the highway. And then then you
7:23
Speaker 1: like in fucking hot Disneyland on the other side of
7:26
Speaker 1: the world. It must have been like landing on Mars, mate.
7:29
Speaker 2: It was. It was exactly that. It was like landing
7:31
Speaker 2: on Mars. And because I had such a strong Western
7:35
Speaker 2: Queensland accent, people thought that I was from some European
7:39
Speaker 2: country that they'd never heard of. Like people didn't know
7:42
Speaker 2: that I spoke English. And it was really interesting when
7:47
Speaker 2: you know, people speak around you about you, and it
7:51
Speaker 2: was it was just it was very much spoke like
7:53
Speaker 2: being an alien. And and you know, I had no
7:57
Speaker 2: concept of that fashion world that for me, you know,
8:00
Speaker 2: growing up, and as you suggested, you know, my father
8:02
Speaker 2: was all about everything is real. You know, you're not
8:05
Speaker 2: worth anything unless you create something or you put use food.
8:09
Speaker 2: And then here I was at the opposite end of
8:12
Speaker 2: the spectrum, people creating fashion, which was very not what
8:17
Speaker 2: my dad would have said was Okay.
8:19
Speaker 1: I can imagine you going, Dad, I'm in France and
8:22
Speaker 1: I'm putting on these really fucking expensive clothes that I
8:25
Speaker 1: don't own, and I'm whilsting down this fucking thing, doing
8:29
Speaker 1: a couple of pirouettes, waving to a few people, and
8:32
Speaker 1: getting a shitload of money. I bet that went down
8:35
Speaker 1: like a cole bucket dispute.
8:37
Speaker 2: Well, funnily enough, when I told him what I was doing,
8:42
Speaker 2: he wouldn't shake my hand, and he actually spat on me.
8:46
Speaker 2: And he was so disgusted that I was going to
8:50
Speaker 2: actually do that. And he didn't spit on me in
8:54
Speaker 2: the way that you know modern people do. It was
8:57
Speaker 2: he absolutely did it to say that he thought what
9:02
Speaker 2: I was doing was was was wrong, and that that yeah,
9:07
Speaker 2: that he was He was absolutely disgusted.
9:09
Speaker 1: By I'm sorry to hear that. What what do you think,
9:12
Speaker 1: Like now you're a grown up having a conversation, you
9:15
Speaker 1: look back and like you were a you know, a
9:18
Speaker 1: young man, what do you think that was about for
9:22
Speaker 1: your dad?
9:25
Speaker 2: Losing his best slave laborer? I think was one big
9:29
Speaker 2: part of it, because you know I was I was
9:31
Speaker 2: seven day a weeker. You would, you know, camp in
9:35
Speaker 2: the tractor if we were cultivating or for harvesting or planting.
9:39
Speaker 2: You know, you would do that for three four and
9:42
Speaker 2: sometimes up to six weeks, depending on how many acres
9:45
Speaker 2: we were doing. Or if I was out on a
9:48
Speaker 2: on a driving job, you know, would be three months
9:50
Speaker 2: on the back of horse horses. So he was losing, losing,
9:54
Speaker 2: I think, one of his best workers. But the other
9:57
Speaker 2: thing was he he's just generation, you know, the pre war,
10:02
Speaker 2: pre World War two generation where everything had to be real,
10:07
Speaker 2: and you know, he grew up in a time of
10:10
Speaker 2: the depression, and then of course lived through the war
10:12
Speaker 2: when there was very very few men working, so children
10:16
Speaker 2: had to work, and of course women had to work
10:19
Speaker 2: where they hadn't done in generations before. So anything that
10:23
Speaker 2: was so perfluous, he thought, And to a degree still
10:28
Speaker 2: I suppose thinks that it's just it's wrong, and it's
10:33
Speaker 2: the devil's work.
10:34
Speaker 1: I suppose, Wow, I'm going to say welcome back, even
10:37
Speaker 1: though you technically didn't know I was going. Everyone I
10:39
Speaker 1: was because Lessa sent me a message, which she never does,
10:42
Speaker 1: a little across my screens said your microphone's dogshit, or
10:46
Speaker 1: something to that effect. And where nothing if not super professional.
10:52
Speaker 1: Dave as you can imagine farmer Dave's nothing but impressed
10:55
Speaker 1: so far? Mate, how did that? Just getting back to
10:58
Speaker 1: your dad, because you work with kids, and I guess
11:01
Speaker 1: for some kids you're a bit of a father figure
11:03
Speaker 1: or at least a mentor teacher role model, someone they
11:06
Speaker 1: look up to and also tell me to get rooted
11:11
Speaker 1: and not talk about anything you don't want to. But
11:14
Speaker 1: how did that end up with your dad as you
11:16
Speaker 1: got older that relationship?
11:18
Speaker 2: Well, I think, like right now, being vulnerable is really important.
11:21
Speaker 2: That's what I teach to the kids is you know,
11:23
Speaker 2: we've got to share us or it's got to share,
11:25
Speaker 2: share what we're going through to be able to work
11:27
Speaker 2: through it. I've always had a very complicated relationship with
11:34
Speaker 2: my father. I think many people have complicated relationship with
11:39
Speaker 2: their father, especially sons with their dads, I've found. But
11:43
Speaker 2: it gives me a real understanding when I'm working with
11:45
Speaker 2: kids who have been rejected there by their parents that
11:49
Speaker 2: at least I can understand where they're coming from so
11:52
Speaker 2: I can give them my baggage, so that I can
11:55
Speaker 2: share the load of their baggage a little bit in
11:57
Speaker 2: their experiences. But yeah, I suppose where my father and
12:02
Speaker 2: I are now. Look, I was meant to take on
12:04
Speaker 2: the family station. As the youngest son in my family.
12:07
Speaker 2: That was my job. And you know, he really kept
12:10
Speaker 2: me on a leash to come back. Whenever I did
12:14
Speaker 2: go away and do amazing things, he would always say, well, look,
12:18
Speaker 2: you know, you've got to get back and get serious
12:20
Speaker 2: about it. But then, funnily enough, before I turned forty,
12:24
Speaker 2: he he said, look, you know, well you're not going
12:26
Speaker 2: to take on the farm. And so it was a
12:29
Speaker 2: late in life kick in the guts that I suppose
12:32
Speaker 2: made me realize that I've got to be free of
12:35
Speaker 2: the expectations, whether he's putting them on me or I'm
12:39
Speaker 2: putting them on me from my dad and those family
12:43
Speaker 2: expectations that often you know, happen in countries like Pakistan
12:47
Speaker 2: or Nigeria, but you know, we in the rural parts
12:50
Speaker 2: of Australia still have those very intense family expectations. So
12:55
Speaker 2: being free of that was probably one of the greatest
12:58
Speaker 2: experiences of my life.
13:01
Speaker 1: What's been for you in terms of you figuring out
13:03
Speaker 1: who you are as a bloke and as a dad?
13:08
Speaker 1: You're a dad? Do you have four kids or something
13:10
Speaker 1: that I read it?
13:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, new babies well, now.
13:13
Speaker 1: Like dad, partner, brother, you know, businessman, teacher, meant like
13:20
Speaker 1: where in the middle of all of that, where do
13:22
Speaker 1: you get your sense of self from, like your identity
13:26
Speaker 1: who you are? Or is that not something that you
13:28
Speaker 1: think about?
13:30
Speaker 2: Oh look, Craig, I think dropping the burden of ego
13:33
Speaker 2: was an amazing thing that I got to do quite
13:37
Speaker 2: some time ago, you know, because I had that big
13:41
Speaker 2: thing at such a young age, you know, nineteen twenty
13:45
Speaker 2: modeling all around the world and it's all about the
13:48
Speaker 2: way you look. I was able to shed that and
13:52
Speaker 2: because I was an extremely anxious person, you know, like
13:57
Speaker 2: I missed most of Grade twelve because I was hiding
13:59
Speaker 2: in the honey or hiding in the library because I'm
14:01
Speaker 2: so nervous to go into a classroom full of other
14:03
Speaker 2: other people. You know. Modeling freed me from that anxiety,
14:08
Speaker 2: But then it also allowed me to be free of
14:12
Speaker 2: that burden that ego really gives us, you know, like
14:15
Speaker 2: and especially men. You know, I don't know if it's
14:17
Speaker 2: a testosterone or what it is, but this ego just
14:21
Speaker 2: comes down on us and forces us to do things
14:25
Speaker 2: that we probably wouldn't do without Without that, so I
14:28
Speaker 2: was able to release myself from from ego and just
14:31
Speaker 2: do things because it's right or because it needs to
14:35
Speaker 2: be done, as opposed to having that front. You know,
14:38
Speaker 2: when you work with teenage boys and even to a
14:41
Speaker 2: bigger extent, you know the girls that I get to
14:44
Speaker 2: work with, you know, having that front is so so important.
14:48
Speaker 2: You know, it's all about making sure that you don't
14:51
Speaker 2: have any shame and avoiding things because of how everyone
14:55
Speaker 2: else thinks. So being able to get rid of all
14:57
Speaker 2: of those facades a very very long time ago and
15:01
Speaker 2: get to live my life without those facades, I think
15:04
Speaker 2: is really really important.
15:05
Speaker 1: I reckon, there's about seventy percent of my audience leaning in,
15:09
Speaker 1: going mate, how did you do that? How did you
15:12
Speaker 1: get because I mean, yeah, how did you let go
15:16
Speaker 1: of ego? What is that? I kind of know what
15:19
Speaker 1: it means, but what does it mean for you? How
15:21
Speaker 1: did you do that? Was that a spiritual process? Was
15:23
Speaker 1: that a decision? Was that a self awareness moment in time?
15:27
Speaker 1: Did something happen? Tell us about that? Because that's a
15:30
Speaker 1: fucking great achievement.
15:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. I suppose there's a few things there. One is
15:36
Speaker 2: being born being born gay and then having all the
15:40
Speaker 2: facads and the protective mechanisms around you, going through you know,
15:43
Speaker 2: an all boys boarding school, coming from a very very
15:46
Speaker 2: homophobic culture, being able to break down all that and
15:52
Speaker 2: going well, I actually want to live my life authentically.
15:55
Speaker 2: I want to be who I am, and if people
16:00
Speaker 2: don't like that, well that's not my problem, that's their problem.
16:03
Speaker 2: You know, I can't change the color of my skin.
16:05
Speaker 2: I can't change my sexuality, but what I can change
16:10
Speaker 2: is people's opinions of me, just through living my life
16:13
Speaker 2: authentically and when there's so much you know, lying and
16:19
Speaker 2: deceit back when I was dealing with my sexuality, been
16:23
Speaker 2: free of that lying and being free of the deceit
16:27
Speaker 2: and being honest I think was the first big breakthrough
16:32
Speaker 2: for me personally. Not everyone gets to go from straight
16:36
Speaker 2: to gay and be very happy in both camps. But
16:41
Speaker 2: I was really, really fortunate to have been had that
16:43
Speaker 2: transition and that amount of self awareness that comes with
16:46
Speaker 2: it and having to break through such an extreme cultural
16:50
Speaker 2: barrier was pretty powerful. And you know, I also went
16:55
Speaker 2: on a show with three million people Watch Your Big
16:58
Speaker 2: Brother back in two thousand and six really say boom,
17:01
Speaker 2: this is me, this is who I am, and I'm
17:04
Speaker 2: with it. If you're not. Well, I'm sorry, but it's
17:06
Speaker 2: not my issue. That's going to be yours that you
17:08
Speaker 2: need to work through. But I'm going to live my
17:10
Speaker 2: life who I am. I'm not a not a broken
17:14
Speaker 2: straight man. I'm a proud gay man. So that was
17:17
Speaker 2: really powerful to be able to say that at twenty six.
17:20
Speaker 2: And I suppose moving through that. You know, I've had
17:23
Speaker 2: many businesses that were extremely successful and they failed, but
17:26
Speaker 2: that getting up experience and know that getting back up
17:29
Speaker 2: and going all is not lost. And I think you know,
17:34
Speaker 2: a Rhodesian teacher told me that when he was an immigrant,
17:40
Speaker 2: and obviously he'd lost everything when he rest left Rhodija
17:43
Speaker 2: during the Bush War, which is obviously now Zimbabwe, but he,
17:48
Speaker 2: you know, he very much so said to me one
17:50
Speaker 2: day when I was hiding in the bathroom and he
17:52
Speaker 2: came down to try and find me, he just said, look,
17:55
Speaker 2: all's not lost, mate, All's not lost. You have the
17:58
Speaker 2: ability from this moment in every other moment moving forward
18:03
Speaker 2: to choose how you want to be and if you
18:05
Speaker 2: want to stay in here you can, but just remember
18:07
Speaker 2: all is not lost. And that was a beautiful thing
18:10
Speaker 2: for that man to say to me.
18:11
Speaker 1: It's almost like a metaphor, if you want to stay
18:14
Speaker 1: in this little room, this little isolated, disconnected, no one
18:17
Speaker 1: to talk to, room, you can you extrapolate that to
18:21
Speaker 1: the world and what you've done since. And also when
18:25
Speaker 1: you think about like being you, whoever you are, whatever,
18:30
Speaker 1: that means, being authentically you in the world, whether it's Melissa, you, me,
18:33
Speaker 1: or anyone listening to this. But how fucking exhausting is
18:37
Speaker 1: it pretending to be someone you're not?
18:39
Speaker 2: Can you imagine George Santos like the array of lies
18:44
Speaker 2: that he has around, all of those personas that he has,
18:47
Speaker 2: and I think for him, you know, again, growing up,
18:51
Speaker 2: gaining a conservative culture that can do that to you.
18:54
Speaker 2: You have to put all these masks on, and you
18:56
Speaker 2: have to put all this ego in front of you.
19:00
Speaker 2: Hard to walk back from that. But when you can
19:02
Speaker 2: turf all that to the side and go, you know,
19:05
Speaker 2: when someone says, how are you feeling today, and you
19:07
Speaker 2: can actually be honest, But then do you be genuinely
19:10
Speaker 2: interested in how they're feeling? I think there's a way
19:13
Speaker 2: to break through all of that burden of ego that
19:17
Speaker 2: we all carry.
19:18
Speaker 1: And I bet, I mean, I'm sure there are a
19:20
Speaker 1: few little speed humbs here and there, because you're normal
19:22
Speaker 1: in life and the world's not perfect. But I bet
19:25
Speaker 1: for the most part you went, why the fuck didn't
19:28
Speaker 1: I do that five years ago?
19:29
Speaker 2: Oh? Look, I checked myself all the time, and I
19:32
Speaker 2: encourage the young people that I work with to. You know,
19:36
Speaker 2: we check ourselves all the time. Whenever we're going off
19:39
Speaker 2: on tangents where we know that we're not being real
19:43
Speaker 2: or not being grounded. Well, then yeah, you've got to
19:45
Speaker 2: check yourself continuously. It's daily process.
19:48
Speaker 1: It's funny with dudes too, I mean everyone, but with
19:51
Speaker 1: men too because of the ego thing and the testosterone
19:54
Speaker 1: thing and the cultural and the programming. Like what your
19:58
Speaker 1: dad expected of you? How many sisters did you have?
20:00
Speaker 2: By the way, Yeah, sisters, five brothers now.
20:03
Speaker 1: No disrespect, but I bet dad wasn't expecting any of
20:06
Speaker 1: the girls to take over the farm, right, No, he
20:09
Speaker 1: was stereotypically.
20:10
Speaker 2: But so the girls are in the house and the
20:12
Speaker 2: boys are out in the fields, except if there was
20:14
Speaker 2: stick picking to do, then everyone was out picking sticks. Right.
20:17
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is that like we
20:21
Speaker 1: we kind of get intentionally or not for better or worse,
20:25
Speaker 1: often worse, like shoved into these stereotypical, you know, rolls
20:30
Speaker 1: or sluts, and then you've kind of like you you
20:34
Speaker 1: are a version of your parents, or a version of
20:36
Speaker 1: your friends or peers, or your culture or your religion
20:39
Speaker 1: or the programming from the media or social media these days.
20:43
Speaker 1: And then in the middle of that, it's try. It's
20:44
Speaker 1: hard to and also dad, because I guess everyone wants
20:48
Speaker 1: to belong to something, right. And then if all of
20:51
Speaker 1: a sudden you go, hey, everyone, I've been pretending I'm
20:54
Speaker 1: actually gay, or I actually fucking hate bowling everyone on
20:57
Speaker 1: Friday nights, I fucking hate it. Also I'm a vegetarian
21:01
Speaker 1: or my carnival friends.
21:02
Speaker 3: Sorry fucking I don't, you know whatever, And there's that
21:07
Speaker 3: it takes a lot of courage to go I actually,
21:11
Speaker 3: you know, I still want to be loved and needed
21:12
Speaker 3: and wanted and valued and connected, but I'm not in
21:15
Speaker 3: that group.
21:16
Speaker 1: I'm not in the heterosexual group. Sorry dudes, sorry whoever,
21:20
Speaker 1: I'm not like that.
21:21
Speaker 2: And you don't have to change everyone around you, you know. Like, No,
21:25
Speaker 2: when I accepted myself as gay, I didn't want everyone
21:28
Speaker 2: around me to become gay. I think that's about.
21:31
Speaker 1: Ah, I thought that's how it worked. No, No, write
21:35
Speaker 1: that down.
21:38
Speaker 2: But you know, it's one of those things that when
21:40
Speaker 2: you accept the new you, you don't have to make
21:43
Speaker 2: everyone else change. You know that. The one thing that
21:47
Speaker 2: I've always noticed when people do go through these periods
21:50
Speaker 2: of being the new authentic self, they're like, well, everyone
21:52
Speaker 2: else needs to come on my journey with me. It's
21:54
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, you do your boom if you've
21:56
Speaker 2: become a vegan, not everyone around you needs to be
21:59
Speaker 2: a vegan as well. Like you, just do you and
22:02
Speaker 2: and shine as yourself. You don't have to have you
22:05
Speaker 2: don't have to recreate your own tribe. You can find
22:08
Speaker 2: your new tribe. But there's nothing wrong with being a
22:11
Speaker 2: vegan with fifteen in your circle of friends. Fifteen that
22:15
Speaker 2: are they're not vegan.
22:17
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also, I mean this is we've spoken about
22:21
Speaker 1: this lately on the show, is just like what about
22:23
Speaker 1: having friends where whether it's politically or religiously or culturally
22:27
Speaker 1: or sociologically or philosophically, they think A and you think B.
22:34
Speaker 1: And you vote liberal and I vote labor. And you've
22:36
Speaker 1: barracked for this team and I barrack for that team.
22:38
Speaker 1: And you know, I went, I went and saw Avatar
22:42
Speaker 1: with one of my best mates a couple of weeks ago,
22:45
Speaker 1: and he's gay and I'm not. And I said to
22:48
Speaker 1: someone said, what are you doing like tonight? I said
22:51
Speaker 1: I've got a date and they said who with? I said, Patrick,
22:53
Speaker 1: We're going to the Avatar And it kind of messed
22:56
Speaker 1: with them a bit. I go, one of is one
22:59
Speaker 1: of the best friends, Like, that's what We're going to
23:01
Speaker 1: see a film? Yeah, and they like almost like I
23:04
Speaker 1: could see him thinking what does that mean? Though, yes, dude,
23:08
Speaker 1: it means I'm hanging out with a friend, We're seeing
23:10
Speaker 1: a film. But like people like is that. I'm like,
23:16
Speaker 1: come on, come on.
23:17
Speaker 2: The human brain, we we just need to box things,
23:20
Speaker 2: you know. And it's it's the the you know, this
23:23
Speaker 2: huge brain that we have that that any woman has
23:26
Speaker 2: ever had a child knows exactly how big the brain is.
23:28
Speaker 2: But this huge brain that we have just needs to
23:30
Speaker 2: box things so we can move on. You know, there's
23:32
Speaker 2: so much information out there that the human brain is
23:36
Speaker 2: a box box, box box, so it can just focus
23:38
Speaker 2: on what's what's important. But I think, you know, we
23:41
Speaker 2: had this thirty years of world libertism and where everyone
23:47
Speaker 2: was free, and you know, the world's just gone forward
23:49
Speaker 2: in such giant leaps, and you know, poverty has really
23:52
Speaker 2: gone by the wayside for the vast majority of the planet.
23:55
Speaker 2: So he's just had this this amazing awakening period. But
23:58
Speaker 2: then I think, now we're going back into the boxes.
24:01
Speaker 2: And I think social media, which was meant to flourish ideas,
24:05
Speaker 2: is making people think smaller and going back into those
24:09
Speaker 2: comfortable tribes. And I think you need to be uncomfortable
24:13
Speaker 2: each day. And as you say, have friends that you
24:16
Speaker 2: can listen to or talk with. You don't have to
24:19
Speaker 2: agree with everyone, Like if you're in an echo chamber
24:22
Speaker 2: of your own thoughts, that's pretty scary to me, Like
24:25
Speaker 2: that would be the most terrifying things to me. I
24:27
Speaker 2: want my friends to all be all be of different
24:32
Speaker 2: silks so that we're all challenging each other but also
24:36
Speaker 2: learning from each other.
24:38
Speaker 1: Well, that's right, And if you happen to agree, cool,
24:41
Speaker 1: and if you don't, also cool. But us being friends
24:44
Speaker 1: is not conditional upon these five rules that we must
24:47
Speaker 1: or these values. But you just got to have a
24:49
Speaker 1: look at this little document before we become friends. It's
24:52
Speaker 1: just seven pages. Just get your lawyer to check it
24:55
Speaker 1: and just sign here, here, and here it's like, that's
24:58
Speaker 1: not a friendship, that's a arrangement, that's a strategic something
25:02
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound anything like love or kindness or acceptance
25:06
Speaker 1: or tolerance. Now, Melissa and I both dog lovers, and
25:13
Speaker 1: you'll make us look like complete amateurs. You love humans,
25:16
Speaker 1: you love helping humans, but you're a little bit partial
25:18
Speaker 1: to fucking I think I think animals are your favorite people.
25:22
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but absolutely, yeah, tell us about your
25:27
Speaker 1: favorite people.
25:28
Speaker 2: Oh look, I've got Jimmy, Jimmy wandering around at my
25:31
Speaker 2: feet right now. Look. I think dogs can teach us
25:35
Speaker 2: so much because you know, they listen so much, and
25:40
Speaker 2: sometimes as humans, we just want to be heard, and
25:42
Speaker 2: especially teenagers, they just want to be heard. But look,
25:44
Speaker 2: I've been working with dogs since I was three years old,
25:47
Speaker 2: and training dogs since I was five. And the communication
25:52
Speaker 2: that you can have without words, without the language that
25:55
Speaker 2: you're that you use each day, but just focusing on
26:00
Speaker 2: behavior and body movement and communicate through that, I think
26:04
Speaker 2: is something special because it tunes you in to a
26:09
Speaker 2: whole new level of communication. And that's why I love
26:14
Speaker 2: animals so much, regardless of the species, but definitely dogs
26:18
Speaker 2: because you know, they were a human construct. We created them,
26:22
Speaker 2: what fifteen thousand years ago to work with us and
26:25
Speaker 2: to be our best mates, and haven't they done a
26:28
Speaker 2: bloody good job on that front?
26:30
Speaker 1: And isn't it bizarre? Correct me if I'm wrong, because
26:33
Speaker 1: I'm I'm no animalologist, clearly, but didn't didn't we start
26:38
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand years ago with a couple of wolves and
26:41
Speaker 1: just breeding, breeding, breeding, pick and choose, pick and choose,
26:43
Speaker 1: pick and choose the most docile and friendly or the
26:46
Speaker 1: least vicious, And we ended up with fucking spoodles.
26:49
Speaker 2: Pretty much, pretty much, that's kind of happening.
26:52
Speaker 1: We ended up with grudles, noodles, doodles, noodles, fucking spoodles noodles.
26:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this amazing when docility on the alley alls
27:03
Speaker 2: creates colors and creates variation, and that's why dogs have
27:06
Speaker 2: variated so much. And again, you know, most of our
27:08
Speaker 2: domesticated species, when we choose docility or bit ability, that
27:13
Speaker 2: ability for us to be able to manipulate them or
27:16
Speaker 2: keep them in a minotonized or a childlike state, we
27:20
Speaker 2: have the amazing variation of color and all that. And
27:23
Speaker 2: you know, obviously we've proven that with silver foxes. With
27:27
Speaker 2: studies done in Russia, and of course with rats and
27:30
Speaker 2: all sorts of things that human fanciers are being breeding
27:34
Speaker 2: over the last hundred years. So docility and variation comes,
27:38
Speaker 2: and we humans love variation. At the moment, the human
27:42
Speaker 2: seems to absolutely love anything that's got a bit of
27:44
Speaker 2: poodle in it.
27:46
Speaker 1: What's that about?
27:47
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I don't know. I think we all just
27:50
Speaker 2: are missing our teddies, And especially during the lockdown period
27:55
Speaker 2: when a million new dogs joined us th earlier, I
27:57
Speaker 2: think three quarters of those were oodles of some scription
28:00
Speaker 2: because we all just needed our teddy from our childhood.
28:02
Speaker 1: Again, that's so funny, that's maybe that's maybe it? So
28:08
Speaker 1: you you, I don't know, was it I read? I
28:11
Speaker 1: can't remember off the top of my head, but like,
28:14
Speaker 1: was it nine or eight or nine or ten years ago?
28:16
Speaker 1: You opened basically Disneyland for dogs?
28:20
Speaker 2: Yeah?
28:20
Speaker 1: Tell us about what was that and what was that about?
28:24
Speaker 2: Yeah? So obviously working with dogs forever traveling the world,
28:29
Speaker 2: you know, you see the interactions of different peoples with
28:31
Speaker 2: their dogs, beating the amazon a beat in Siberia or
28:34
Speaker 2: beating the Himalayas, and dogs are such an integral part
28:38
Speaker 2: to the human experience and you know, dogs have gotten
28:42
Speaker 2: me through everything, but it you know, minus twenty degrees
28:47
Speaker 2: in Mongolia, are in a tent. You know, if I
28:49
Speaker 2: didn't have three dogs under the reindeer pelts with me,
28:52
Speaker 2: I would have absolutely frozen. But about ten years ago
28:55
Speaker 2: I was training dogs to do some search and rescue
28:59
Speaker 2: and trying them. Had to jump out of planes, you know,
29:01
Speaker 2: on my person, and I had a terrible, terrible parachuting
29:06
Speaker 2: accident and was in a wheelchair for about a year
29:09
Speaker 2: and broken hands, broken everything. So prior to that period,
29:13
Speaker 2: I'd used force training, which is, you know, you compel
29:16
Speaker 2: a dog to do something. A dog does something wrong,
29:18
Speaker 2: you growl at it, and I'm shamed to say it,
29:21
Speaker 2: but you know, training stock dogs, i'd use shop collars,
29:27
Speaker 2: I'd kick the kick dogs, throwing stones at dogs, because
29:30
Speaker 2: all about getting the job done, you know, I'd very
29:32
Speaker 2: much so had that mindset from my family and the
29:36
Speaker 2: culture that I grew up in. But when you're in
29:39
Speaker 2: a wheelchair and your hands don't work. Look, my parents
29:43
Speaker 2: sent me a kelpie from the farm, and because I
29:46
Speaker 2: couldn't obviously be on the farm, I was too much
29:47
Speaker 2: of a burden, and so I was living in the
29:49
Speaker 2: city in my wheelchair, and this dog, you know, if
29:53
Speaker 2: it did anything wrong, I couldn't do anything about it.
29:55
Speaker 2: But I could still flick at a treat. So I
29:57
Speaker 2: did what we call positive reinforcement quadrant, which is click
30:01
Speaker 2: and treat. You know, the dog does something you like,
30:02
Speaker 2: you give it a treat. And I was got through
30:06
Speaker 2: my black dog, and got through my severe depression of
30:08
Speaker 2: being someone that loves to do four thousand things at
30:10
Speaker 2: once and was completely in this series of casts and
30:15
Speaker 2: unable to do anything. But you know, I was able
30:17
Speaker 2: to get my dog to get my toothbrush, to open
30:20
Speaker 2: the door, to be able to go and get whatever
30:21
Speaker 2: it was that I needed the dog to do, even
30:24
Speaker 2: to grab my blanket, to open up my bed so
30:27
Speaker 2: I could jump in bed. And then when I got
30:29
Speaker 2: a little bit more mobile, she would have a little cart,
30:31
Speaker 2: would go to the shops and I would put all
30:32
Speaker 2: the shopping in it. She just did everything for me,
30:35
Speaker 2: and I realized that I absolutely owed my life to dogs,
30:39
Speaker 2: be it on the station, getting through the droughts, or
30:42
Speaker 2: doing all the droving, or as I say, up in
30:45
Speaker 2: the frozen territories of Mongolia. And then at that period
30:50
Speaker 2: of time, through that terrible Black dog period. So I
30:54
Speaker 2: wanted people to experience the absolute joy of dogs, but
30:57
Speaker 2: doing in more kinder, more so lies based way, but
31:01
Speaker 2: also be able to honor all the different breeds that
31:05
Speaker 2: we humans have created, from the kelpie with sheep herding,
31:08
Speaker 2: to the greyhound with racing, or the whippet with racing,
31:11
Speaker 2: to all the water dogs. And so yeah, we built
31:14
Speaker 2: this disneyland that had about twenty sports that people could
31:18
Speaker 2: do with their dogs, and also wanted them to understand
31:21
Speaker 2: that you don't have to incarcerate a dog if it
31:25
Speaker 2: hasn't worked for a family. You know, you think of
31:27
Speaker 2: the typical shelter back then was very much so a
31:32
Speaker 2: meter by two meters sell and like that's a like
31:36
Speaker 2: why if we made the wrong choice or whatever reason,
31:40
Speaker 2: a dog's going to a shelter, why are they in
31:42
Speaker 2: a living condition like a jail. They've done nothing wrong.
31:45
Speaker 2: So we had a five acres of free range living
31:51
Speaker 2: for the dogs and they had pools, they had jungle gyms,
31:54
Speaker 2: they had absolutely everything, plus access to all the sports.
31:57
Speaker 2: So I take a lot of dogs from shelter, has
32:00
Speaker 2: allowed them to become a dog so that they didn't have
32:02
Speaker 2: those stereotypical enough they were self mutilating, or if they
32:04
Speaker 2: were jumping against the cages, or if they were attacking people,
32:08
Speaker 2: because they just become stereotypic in that cell. Often back
32:12
Speaker 2: then they would just put the dog down right because
32:14
Speaker 2: of behavioral problems. They couldn't rehome it, but they would
32:16
Speaker 2: come learn how to be a dog again, and then
32:17
Speaker 2: very quickly they would be re home back at the shelter.
32:20
Speaker 2: So it was a place where I think about fifteen
32:24
Speaker 2: thousand people from Sydney came to to learn or to
32:27
Speaker 2: have fun with their dogs. And that was really me
32:30
Speaker 2: giving back to dogs to say, hey, thanks for allowing
32:34
Speaker 2: me to live my life.
32:36
Speaker 1: Wow, I have a weird question, but there's a point.
32:39
Speaker 1: What color was the kelpie as.
32:41
Speaker 2: You're black and tan with a big white chest.
32:44
Speaker 1: So a black dog helped you get through the black dog?
32:47
Speaker 2: Funny enough, Yeah, I never thought of that.
32:49
Speaker 1: Yes, you're welcome. You can use that right about Rough
32:55
Speaker 1: Track mate.
32:56
Speaker 2: So Rough Track is a place where kids can come
33:00
Speaker 2: to get their lives back on track and make the
33:03
Speaker 2: most out of their lives. So kids come to us
33:06
Speaker 2: via the police, They come to us via referrals from
33:09
Speaker 2: different care agencies, from schools, from families that just aren't coping,
33:16
Speaker 2: and it's really a place that we promise them three
33:20
Speaker 2: things that will keep them alife, that will keep them
33:22
Speaker 2: out of prison, and we'll give them skills for a
33:24
Speaker 2: secure future. And those skills come right down to the
33:26
Speaker 2: simple basics how to deal with the stressful situation. And
33:30
Speaker 2: that strestful situation could be absolutely anything been spoken to
33:33
Speaker 2: by another person going to a job interview. So we
33:37
Speaker 2: do a lot on communication, a lot on anger management,
33:40
Speaker 2: a lot on dealing with anxiety, dealing with depression, and
33:43
Speaker 2: we do it all through a very unique way of
33:46
Speaker 2: being farm based. So they're touching the earth, they're growing crops,
33:50
Speaker 2: they're growing vegetables, they're working with dogs. Every single day.
33:55
Speaker 2: We do a lot of dog work, so it's out
33:57
Speaker 2: walking your dogs, so learning about relif relationships. You know,
34:00
Speaker 2: I've got a loose leash and your dog's on a
34:02
Speaker 2: loose leash. That says a lot about your ability in
34:05
Speaker 2: your relationships. And then I can talk to the kids
34:08
Speaker 2: in action, so you're not just sitting there having a
34:11
Speaker 2: conversation like a therapist does or a counselor, because often
34:15
Speaker 2: teenagers just don't like that situation. We're having conversations, which
34:19
Speaker 2: a real world is a leash really tight. You know,
34:22
Speaker 2: what relationship do you have at the moment where you
34:24
Speaker 2: feel like you've been dragged along? And then the kid
34:26
Speaker 2: can open up and then soon enough, you know, we
34:28
Speaker 2: can have that dog on a loose lead, and they
34:30
Speaker 2: feel so much better, and it's like, hey, you know,
34:32
Speaker 2: maybe you could try this or try that, or what
34:35
Speaker 2: do you reckon? You could try and then you're guiding
34:38
Speaker 2: the kid into a conversation where they can communicate more
34:40
Speaker 2: effectively but also acknowledge how they can improve their relationships
34:44
Speaker 2: just by simply walking your dog on a leash, you know.
34:46
Speaker 2: And I'll have ten, fifteen or twenty kids out walking dogs,
34:50
Speaker 2: and I'll just jump from one to the next, and
34:52
Speaker 2: then we can reflect on what's going on. Then we
34:55
Speaker 2: all meet in the bush and which our bush classroom,
34:58
Speaker 2: all these logs, and they just sit there with their
34:59
Speaker 2: dog and we can take in the world, do a
35:01
Speaker 2: little bit of meditation. We're taking the colors, the smells,
35:05
Speaker 2: and we can just ease their minds and rest their
35:07
Speaker 2: minds for a little bit. And you know what, that's
35:10
Speaker 2: the first twenty minutes of being in rough track. So's
35:14
Speaker 2: it's an amazing place, but it's all about making sure
35:18
Speaker 2: that we have kids that get to live the life
35:20
Speaker 2: that I've got to live.
35:21
Speaker 1: Well, that's bloody incredible. I'm trying to visualize, like I'm
35:25
Speaker 1: getting lost in the story. I'm not thinking about what's
35:27
Speaker 1: my next question. I'm going I want to go there,
35:30
Speaker 1: I want to sit in the bush, I want to
35:32
Speaker 1: walk a dog. I want to get here or her
35:34
Speaker 1: on it. Loosely, how does it like? Do they come
35:39
Speaker 1: three days? Do they is it?
35:41
Speaker 2: Like?
35:41
Speaker 1: What is that a program that goes for an extended
35:43
Speaker 1: period of time? Like, how does it work?
35:45
Speaker 2: Like? Yeah, So we have the core kids that are
35:48
Speaker 2: continuing on from last year. So I think there's about
35:54
Speaker 2: there's about fifteen of those that are continuing on and
35:58
Speaker 2: they'll be with us for a five or three five
36:02
Speaker 2: or three days and a week, and then we have
36:06
Speaker 2: what we call our roundyard kids. In roundyard, for anyone
36:09
Speaker 2: that's ever been on a farm or seen a seen
36:12
Speaker 2: cheap hurting demonstrations, it's the dog on the opposite side
36:16
Speaker 2: and bringing sheep back to you or moving in a
36:19
Speaker 2: circular motion. And that's one of the fundamental trainings that
36:22
Speaker 2: we do is teaching kids' perspectives. They understand what it's
36:25
Speaker 2: like from someone else's point of view, which a lot
36:28
Speaker 2: of the kids that come to us haven't learnt what
36:31
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, and that's why, you know, often
36:33
Speaker 2: they can be violental, steal or hurt other people because
36:36
Speaker 2: they really don't have the hole wearing someone else's shoes
36:40
Speaker 2: point of view. So that perspective is the roundyard project
36:42
Speaker 2: that goes ten weeks and the kids usually come like
36:47
Speaker 2: you know, some of the ones that came today, hoodies on,
36:51
Speaker 2: heads down, it's bought it hot, right, but you know,
36:54
Speaker 2: they're all very aged within themselves and angry at the world.
36:59
Speaker 2: And what we try I do over a very very
37:01
Speaker 2: short period of time is get them to express themselves,
37:04
Speaker 2: get them to communicate effectively, and to trust us. And
37:07
Speaker 2: we do that all through the dogs and also to
37:11
Speaker 2: be responsible. The first thing I do when they arrive
37:13
Speaker 2: is pick up the dog shit, you know, clean out
37:15
Speaker 2: the dog's waters, make sure the dogs okay, connect with
37:18
Speaker 2: the dog, do a little bit of training with the dog,
37:20
Speaker 2: bond with the dog, and then I can work with
37:23
Speaker 2: them really, really easily because the dogs are already created that
37:26
Speaker 2: Lil opening that I can peek in and say, okay,
37:29
Speaker 2: I'm following. How are you doing?
37:30
Speaker 1: How many dogs do you have?
37:32
Speaker 2: Mate, ah? Between twenty and thirty. I'm not going to
37:35
Speaker 2: give you an exact number, because you know, you always
37:39
Speaker 2: feel a bit crazy dog man if you give an
37:42
Speaker 2: exact number.
37:43
Speaker 1: But I don't like that. Once you get over five,
37:45
Speaker 1: you're a crazy dog man. So don't fucking worry about
37:47
Speaker 1: the number, like only twenty six, Craig, I'm completely sane. Yeah,
37:53
Speaker 1: but you're not in a good way.
37:56
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is that I reckon that look a
37:59
Speaker 2: lot of our sisters because we're part of a wider
38:01
Speaker 2: tracker network from Queensland right across New South Wales and
38:05
Speaker 2: there's lots of these programs. Well I should say lots,
38:08
Speaker 2: there's eleven of these programs. We're a little bit different
38:11
Speaker 2: because every kid gets a dog in our program. I
38:14
Speaker 2: think with the big city that Sydney is, there's a
38:18
Speaker 2: lot of disconnect and I really want the kids to connect,
38:21
Speaker 2: or really want them to find that very quickly. In
38:23
Speaker 2: our program. We don't have the smaller town headspace that
38:28
Speaker 2: a lot of our sister programs have because we're in
38:30
Speaker 2: such a big disconnected city. Our kids are so disconnected
38:33
Speaker 2: from school or family or culture that them working with
38:38
Speaker 2: a single dog for the entire ten week program, I
38:40
Speaker 2: think is so valuable because they've got to have that relationship.
38:44
Speaker 2: And at the end of the period, Craig, this is
38:47
Speaker 2: where it gets interesting. And everyone always has the same question,
38:49
Speaker 2: and I hope jumping into you, but do they get
38:51
Speaker 2: to keep the dog? And the answer is no, because
38:56
Speaker 2: a lot of our kids come from quite violent homes. Sic.
39:00
Speaker 2: Violence is just a part of life. And one of
39:02
Speaker 2: the skills that I want each young person that comes
39:05
Speaker 2: to us to take away is your ability to absolutely
39:09
Speaker 2: love something, be so in love with a dog because
39:13
Speaker 2: they can't with a dog. They sleep with a dog
39:14
Speaker 2: in their swags when we're off doing trips or shows
39:18
Speaker 2: with their dogs, so they're really bonded with the dogs.
39:20
Speaker 2: But I want them to know that it's okay to
39:22
Speaker 2: let go, and that skill, I think is something that
39:28
Speaker 2: is really lacking in a lot of the young people
39:31
Speaker 2: that will come to us, is learning that skill to
39:34
Speaker 2: love and let go as opposed to what I need
39:37
Speaker 2: you and I'll force you to be with me.
39:40
Speaker 1: Wow, there's so many body variables in this I'm thinking
39:43
Speaker 1: about So is there a Davies there If so, when
39:47
Speaker 1: you said the people are coming back from last year
39:49
Speaker 1: which are out three to five day are weekers?
39:52
Speaker 2: Yeah?
39:52
Speaker 1: Whatever that means? How are they are they kind of ongoing?
39:57
Speaker 1: Who are they versus the people that come in and
39:59
Speaker 1: out for ten weeks.
40:01
Speaker 2: Well, they're our amazing young people that still need more
40:04
Speaker 2: of the program. They can't go back into education. So
40:07
Speaker 2: my big goal for the kids is there's only two
40:10
Speaker 2: ways to leave rough Track, and that is full time
40:13
Speaker 2: educational full time employment. Other than that, you're staying with me,
40:17
Speaker 2: and I'm going to get you to that point that
40:19
Speaker 2: you are absolutely ready. And I don't want the kids
40:22
Speaker 2: to go too early because I don't want them to
40:23
Speaker 2: fall flat on their face and go, well, I'm not
40:25
Speaker 2: going I'm never going to get a job again because
40:27
Speaker 2: that was too terrible. You know. I want them to
40:30
Speaker 2: be absolutely ready, which is why and I get the
40:33
Speaker 2: kids to do live television. They do performances in front
40:36
Speaker 2: of thirty thousand people, They do performances in front of
40:40
Speaker 2: their own families. So I really challenge their abilities to
40:43
Speaker 2: make sure that they have all of the boundaries pushed.
40:47
Speaker 2: So when they do go back to school or they
40:49
Speaker 2: do go into the employment world. They're absolutely ready and
40:53
Speaker 2: they've got all the resilience and all the tools and
40:55
Speaker 2: their toolkit that they can deal with any given situation.
40:59
Speaker 2: So it's it's an extremely full on program to ten weeks.
41:03
Speaker 2: But then the Core program, those kids that continue on
41:06
Speaker 2: with us. Sometimes we'll have twenty kids continue on with us.
41:09
Speaker 2: Sometimes we'll have, as we've got at the moment, about
41:11
Speaker 2: fifteen continuing on with us. And they are the little
41:14
Speaker 2: legends that help the other kids. It's just like a station.
41:18
Speaker 2: You know. Most farmers you'll say, how do I train
41:21
Speaker 2: a dog? They're like, I don't know, only trained one
41:22
Speaker 2: when I was a kid, and then that dog's trained
41:24
Speaker 2: all the other dogs. So people don't like it when
41:28
Speaker 2: I like in kids to dogs, but I do. I
41:30
Speaker 2: love dogs more than anything in the world, and I
41:32
Speaker 2: love the kids that I work with more than anything
41:34
Speaker 2: in the world. But the kids that continue on from Core,
41:38
Speaker 2: they will teach the other kids everything they need to know.
41:40
Speaker 2: And kids tend to learn better from their own mates
41:43
Speaker 2: than they do it from the old people that don't
41:45
Speaker 2: know anything.
41:47
Speaker 1: So many questions. Now, firstly, you built you created a
41:51
Speaker 1: problem for yourself because problem right, Well, here's the problem.
41:54
Speaker 1: So you go, they're either going back in full time
41:57
Speaker 1: education or full time employment, and if they don't stay
42:00
Speaker 1: with me, I'll be like, fuck that, I'm staying here.
42:02
Speaker 1: Uck employments. Cool, I'm starting on the farm with farmer Dave.
42:08
Speaker 1: Just look it me. I'm done.
42:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a bit of an issue that we
42:12
Speaker 2: did create, probably a space that kids want.
42:16
Speaker 1: To who would want to leave, You would want to leave, Yeah,
42:19
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to leave, and I haven't
42:21
Speaker 1: been been there.
42:23
Speaker 2: So I do work them really hard. Like I've got
42:27
Speaker 2: to be honest with your craiglock. When we're doing clean
42:30
Speaker 2: up jobs after the floods, or we're doing bushfire fencing
42:33
Speaker 2: recovery jobs, you know, we'll be working from six thirty
42:36
Speaker 2: in the morning till six thirty or ninety. There's a
42:38
Speaker 2: daylight hour. We're using it to build fences for people,
42:42
Speaker 2: or clean up paddocks that have got crap on them
42:46
Speaker 2: from the floods, or cleaning out people's houses. So I
42:49
Speaker 2: really do work them. So there is a bit of
42:53
Speaker 2: a push factor into the employment world. And the funny
42:57
Speaker 2: thing is I caught up with three young blokes just
43:00
Speaker 2: recently at a big event and I asked him, I said, oh,
43:04
Speaker 2: how's work? And they're like, way easier than Rough Track,
43:07
Speaker 2: And you know that's to me, that's awesome because I've
43:11
Speaker 2: done my job. I've shown them you know this is fun. Yeah,
43:14
Speaker 2: but I'm going to push you a bit further, push
43:16
Speaker 2: you a bit further, push a bit further, so when
43:18
Speaker 2: they do go into a job, it's a breeze. You know.
43:21
Speaker 2: I want them to ask to get into that job
43:24
Speaker 2: and go, wow, this is this is really easy? What
43:27
Speaker 2: was I worried about or what is you know my
43:29
Speaker 2: family members that are n't employed because some of my
43:32
Speaker 2: kids got multi generational unemployment. You know, I want them
43:35
Speaker 2: to go in like a breeze because there's a lot
43:37
Speaker 2: of pressure put on them and fear about a job.
43:40
Speaker 2: Much easier to go on the doll or much easier
43:43
Speaker 2: just to stay at home and do drugs, you know.
43:45
Speaker 2: So it's it's really pushing them every which way I
43:47
Speaker 2: can within the safety wrap around that is rough Track,
43:50
Speaker 2: so that when they go out into that job world,
43:53
Speaker 2: they're just like, whoa.
43:54
Speaker 1: How long had they amazing? How long before? You know?
43:58
Speaker 1: So they come in today the new group hands in
44:00
Speaker 1: the pocket, hoodies, fucking looking at their feet. Everyone's a
44:04
Speaker 1: fucking idiot. No one knows anything. You can all get
44:07
Speaker 1: rooted and fuck you and I'm the toughest and whatever.
44:09
Speaker 1: How long before that becomes where they're you know, they're
44:13
Speaker 1: starting to integrate, they've made a friend or two, they're
44:17
Speaker 1: opening up a little bit, and there's you know, it's
44:20
Speaker 1: a bit warmer and less chaotic. Yeah.
44:22
Speaker 2: So in our program, it usually takes up to about
44:25
Speaker 2: three weeks, and they're real hard nuts to crack three weeks.
44:28
Speaker 2: But it's really I've got to get them here every day.
44:31
Speaker 2: So if i can get them here the two days
44:33
Speaker 2: a week that the Roundyard kids come, so Tuesdays and Thursdays,
44:37
Speaker 2: it's usually things start to change by week two. Then
44:41
Speaker 2: by week three three, they really are those all those
44:44
Speaker 2: barriers are gone. They've got their heads up there. Certainly
44:46
Speaker 2: the hoodies are off and they're communicating with each other.
44:50
Speaker 2: They're having fun. They're not just going to come and
44:54
Speaker 2: then fight straight on. You know how they are in
44:56
Speaker 2: the first.
44:57
Speaker 1: Week, don't fucking look me, oh.
45:01
Speaker 2: Cracky like they Yeah. Yeah, the first week is just like,
45:05
Speaker 2: oh my god, here we go again, and do you.
45:09
Speaker 1: Have many big lumps working for you that can kind
45:11
Speaker 1: of just step in the breach there and go. Listen.
45:14
Speaker 1: Listen Champ and listen, Sugar Ray listen. Mike Tyson said,
45:18
Speaker 1: all the fuck down. Do you have anyone that can
45:21
Speaker 1: kind of manage that or do you have to do that?
45:23
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I always take any punches. If if a
45:26
Speaker 2: punch is going to come and look, I'll just hug
45:29
Speaker 2: the young person. I'll hug them. I'll move them to
45:31
Speaker 2: a new place. And so you know, it's always about redirecting.
45:35
Speaker 2: It's no different to dogs. It's just redirect get them
45:39
Speaker 2: interested in something else, get the energy out whatever's been
45:42
Speaker 2: pent up. I mean, you know, they're just dealing with
45:45
Speaker 2: the anxieties that are building up in them. There are
45:47
Speaker 2: adrenaline is going through their system. They've got to get
45:49
Speaker 2: rid of it. So I'll just redirect them off somewhere else.
45:52
Speaker 2: And if they whack me or try and stab me
45:53
Speaker 2: for a bit, when that's okay. But then the main
45:56
Speaker 2: thing that I get through to them is that they
45:58
Speaker 2: are loved and they are valued, and they are heard
46:01
Speaker 2: and come over here because I really want to. I
46:03
Speaker 2: want to hear what's going on with you, and then
46:06
Speaker 2: you know, the tears will come and again oftentimes that
46:11
Speaker 2: anger is usually just a whole heap of hurt that
46:15
Speaker 2: they've got. The hurt people hurt people. Well, these kids
46:19
Speaker 2: really been hurt by people. You know, I would would
46:23
Speaker 2: never try and tell you what some of these kids
46:25
Speaker 2: have been through, but you just have your most terrible thoughts,
46:30
Speaker 2: and that's what a lot of our kids have been through,
46:32
Speaker 2: you know, the most terrible situations that people have done
46:35
Speaker 2: to them. So they're carrying a lot of hurt and
46:39
Speaker 2: sometimes all they know is to put that hurt on
46:42
Speaker 2: someone else. So my job is to find a place
46:45
Speaker 2: for them to be able to release that pain, but
46:47
Speaker 2: also manage that pain and have the skills so that
46:50
Speaker 2: when they're triggered by it again, they've got a whole
46:53
Speaker 2: array of tools and their tool get to go. You
46:55
Speaker 2: know what, I can get myself out of this situation
46:57
Speaker 2: so that I'm not hurt and no one else is hurt.
47:01
Speaker 1: You are quite unique. Do you know what a great
47:05
Speaker 1: bloke you are? I know you don't like compliments probably,
47:07
Speaker 1: but what you do is fucking amazing. Do you know that?
47:10
Speaker 2: Well? Thanks man, But I mean like and.
47:14
Speaker 1: I know I know it's not about you. I know,
47:16
Speaker 1: it's about the kids, and I know that, But truly, dude,
47:20
Speaker 1: you are true. I meet a lot of cool people
47:22
Speaker 1: and you are right up there like you inspire me,
47:26
Speaker 1: Like I'm proud of you, and I don't even know you.
47:28
Speaker 1: The shit that you do is because like it's messy,
47:32
Speaker 1: it's not uncomfortable. I mean, it's not comfortable. I'm sure
47:35
Speaker 1: it's I'm sure there's many times where it's somewhere between
47:39
Speaker 1: dangerous and just fucking shitty and unrelenting. And but then
47:44
Speaker 1: you're talking about loving these kids who are trying to
47:46
Speaker 1: stab you or hit you. What is that about? Where
47:50
Speaker 1: does that come from? Is that something you've developed or
47:53
Speaker 1: is that you? Is that innate?
47:56
Speaker 2: It could be, it could be innate. But look, when
47:58
Speaker 2: I was a little kid and I had to manage
48:00
Speaker 2: you know, fifteen or twenty stock dogs, all different stockmen, right,
48:04
Speaker 2: so you know, like I'd have to manage the camp
48:07
Speaker 2: of dogs, put them away, feed them, to let them
48:10
Speaker 2: all all that sort of stuff, and pick up all
48:12
Speaker 2: their dogshit. Was I started doing that at three years
48:16
Speaker 2: of age, so I was a little tiny thing. So
48:19
Speaker 2: I had to learn very quick how to manage dogs
48:24
Speaker 2: and they've got teeth right softable.
48:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they can be unpredictable and fierce and yeah.
48:31
Speaker 2: So I learned a lot of ways of how to
48:33
Speaker 2: redirect anger and anxiety back then, and how to move
48:39
Speaker 2: things around and create flow systems from a very very
48:43
Speaker 2: young age. And of course having five brothers and five sisters,
48:46
Speaker 2: you learn how to do it with humans as well.
48:49
Speaker 2: And then going to boarding school, you really learn and
48:51
Speaker 2: you see what works and what doesn't work. And the
48:54
Speaker 2: one thing that I think consistently never really worked was
48:57
Speaker 2: when we punish people, especially young people that don't have
49:01
Speaker 2: the tool kits or the cognitive ability to see around
49:05
Speaker 2: corners or look in highsight. They just don't have hindsight
49:08
Speaker 2: to look upon. So it's very much so about always
49:12
Speaker 2: rewarding the good behaviors and always looking for the gold.
49:16
Speaker 2: You know, there's always a lot of shit for a
49:19
Speaker 2: gold miner to go through. And I'm like that fossica
49:23
Speaker 2: that got off the boat from California into the Australian
49:26
Speaker 2: out back and he walked how many weeks and weeks
49:29
Speaker 2: and weeks to get to the gold field and that
49:31
Speaker 2: still had the gold fever. Keep searching for that gold
49:33
Speaker 2: and that's what I do with these kids. Is no
49:36
Speaker 2: matter how many times they tell me to fuck off,
49:37
Speaker 2: no matter how many times they just totally ignore me
49:40
Speaker 2: and give me absolutely nothing, I'm just looking for that gold.
49:43
Speaker 2: As soon as I see that little shine, then I
49:46
Speaker 2: feel alive because I know that I can work with
49:49
Speaker 2: this kid, because this kid, as every kid, is worth
49:53
Speaker 2: having the wonderful life that I've had. Like when you've
49:57
Speaker 2: seen death like I have, and sometimes at your own
50:00
Speaker 2: in hand, which is you know as I look back
50:02
Speaker 2: and I go, thank God, I didn't do that. But
50:05
Speaker 2: when you when you see that this kid really does
50:09
Speaker 2: have something that they want to let you in, I
50:12
Speaker 2: jump in there like.
50:13
Speaker 1: That fossica wown.
50:15
Speaker 2: I mind that gold, and you know what it's It's
50:18
Speaker 2: all about just rewarding that good behavior because very quickly
50:22
Speaker 2: all those terrible things that often teenagers throw out the world.
50:27
Speaker 2: I mean, we've all met one, we were one, can
50:30
Speaker 2: be assholes. But the thing is that I've given an
50:33
Speaker 2: opportunity to be something else. There is no greater joy
50:39
Speaker 2: than when you get a team agent to choose something
50:41
Speaker 2: else than being an asshole.
50:44
Speaker 1: Fucking brilliant. And also, by the way, leadership training can
50:48
Speaker 1: start at three. Everyone I did for Dave, he was
50:50
Speaker 1: in management at three, who was head of canine resources
50:54
Speaker 1: including picking up dog shit, feeding, grooming. Wow, so how
50:59
Speaker 1: do that go down at the dinner table? Are you
51:01
Speaker 1: up the end? Who can't quite see over the top
51:04
Speaker 1: from tomorrow you're in charge of the dogs?
51:08
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, and of course back then there was no
51:10
Speaker 2: desex thing, so all undersexed males going for each other,
51:14
Speaker 2: all undersex females going for each other. Man. Of course
51:17
Speaker 2: we all had the problems of the dingoes coming in
51:19
Speaker 2: as well.
51:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've mean mayhem, mate? How when nearly done? When
51:24
Speaker 1: early done? How does this work financially? And how can
51:29
Speaker 1: we help? Could like to what is how does it work?
51:32
Speaker 1: Like the people pay to go there?
51:34
Speaker 2: Is it?
51:34
Speaker 1: Government supported? Is it?
51:36
Speaker 2: What is it?
51:36
Speaker 1: How is it?
51:38
Speaker 2: Well, as you guys know the old adages, we need
51:41
Speaker 2: a village to raise kids, you know, and I work
51:44
Speaker 2: in the village. We all work in the village, and
51:46
Speaker 2: we can all point the finger and we can go.
51:48
Speaker 2: Someone should do something about that, you know, like, oh
51:52
Speaker 2: my garden got completely kicked over last night, mob of
51:55
Speaker 2: kids walked past, or you know what's happening in at
51:58
Speaker 2: Alice Springs. Everyone's pointing the finger and going someone should
52:00
Speaker 2: do something about that. What I'm about is solutions. So
52:06
Speaker 2: if I'm getting the kids to go and pick up rubbish,
52:08
Speaker 2: you know, if we want to go and have a
52:09
Speaker 2: swim somewhere, we'll spend an hour picking up rubbish, then
52:11
Speaker 2: we'll go for a swim. You know, it's always about
52:14
Speaker 2: you were the solution to whatever problem was in front
52:16
Speaker 2: of you. Because I got told by a nun when
52:19
Speaker 2: I was in my bush school. I pointed the finger
52:23
Speaker 2: and I said, oh he did this and anyway, she said,
52:26
Speaker 2: oh you've you know, she told me that one finger
52:28
Speaker 2: with one thumb was pointing up at Jesus. How can
52:30
Speaker 2: you point the finger at Jesus? But three fingers, that's
52:32
Speaker 2: the important thing. Three fingers are always pointing back at you.
52:35
Speaker 2: You know, always yourself what you can do to fix
52:38
Speaker 2: the situation before you start point the finger at someone else. So,
52:41
Speaker 2: my very long spill, there is anyone listening can help
52:46
Speaker 2: us out. And it costs a lot to do what
52:49
Speaker 2: we do. We have very very skilled staff, and we
52:52
Speaker 2: need very very skilled staff to do what we do
52:55
Speaker 2: with our young people and to get them where they
52:57
Speaker 2: need to go. We've got to take them right around
52:59
Speaker 2: the country to expand their worldview as my worldview has expanded,
53:03
Speaker 2: as I alluded to earlier. So if you can financially
53:08
Speaker 2: support us, then then absolutely please do. Just go to
53:10
Speaker 2: the Rough Track website if you can, come to winning
53:13
Speaker 2: our fundraisers throughout Sydney, or come to our shows and
53:16
Speaker 2: just support us at our shows, or get online and
53:19
Speaker 2: buy stuff that the kids have produced. And because we've
53:21
Speaker 2: got a lot of social enterprises which the kids, we
53:24
Speaker 2: try and employ the kids through and that's those cool
53:26
Speaker 2: kids that I was talking about. They're not ready for
53:29
Speaker 2: the job market, but we provide jobs through them right here.
53:33
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you've got skills that you reckon a
53:36
Speaker 2: little organization that does a heck of a lot, we'll
53:39
Speaker 2: then get in contact with us. Because the big thing
53:42
Speaker 2: that we want to do this year is get our
53:44
Speaker 2: own forever farm, you know, a place that kids will
53:47
Speaker 2: always have as our home. Like many of us who
53:51
Speaker 2: have got farms, it's always home, even if we don't
53:53
Speaker 2: visit there. And what we want is to always have
53:55
Speaker 2: a touchstone for our kids to go. You know what,
53:57
Speaker 2: that's my safe place if they ever visit for the
54:01
Speaker 2: rest of their lives or not. They know that it's
54:02
Speaker 2: safe and it's a cure. But if we can then
54:05
Speaker 2: have our own forever farm and have tiny homes on
54:08
Speaker 2: it so the kids can actually stay there safely twenty
54:11
Speaker 2: four hours our twenty four hours a day, seven days
54:14
Speaker 2: a week, well that's that's my challenge to the village
54:17
Speaker 2: is be part of our village and help us get
54:19
Speaker 2: where we want to go and get that forever farm.
54:21
Speaker 2: And of course, with land prices, it costs a few
54:24
Speaker 2: million dollars. But you know, if each one of your
54:26
Speaker 2: listeners chupped in five bucks would get there real quick.
54:29
Speaker 1: We definitely would. By the way, everyone, rough Tracks, are
54:32
Speaker 1: you double F? Not ough?
54:34
Speaker 2: So?
54:35
Speaker 1: Are you double F rough Track? Mate? You're You're an inspiration.
54:41
Speaker 1: You're a great dude. I genuinely mean that we'd love
54:44
Speaker 1: to get you back in six months or three months
54:48
Speaker 1: or whenever you can, because there's so much more to
54:50
Speaker 1: learn from you. I think we're going to do something.
54:55
Speaker 1: I think we're going to do a little something I
54:57
Speaker 1: might come up with and I might do a workshop
54:59
Speaker 1: or something. We might we might we might do a
55:02
Speaker 1: little fundraiser for rough Track. Everybody, So stay tuned. We're
55:05
Speaker 1: going to do something, a little something, and at the
55:07
Speaker 1: very least we're going.
55:08
Speaker 2: To absolutely amazing what being part of the village is.
55:12
Speaker 2: You know, we've got to do whatever it is.
55:14
Speaker 1: Now.
55:14
Speaker 2: I'm the one that takes the punches and the kicks,
55:16
Speaker 2: but I also get the joy of the hugs and
55:18
Speaker 2: the tears and the muner and but we've all got
55:21
Speaker 2: our part to play to make sure that no kid
55:23
Speaker 2: gets left behind. And if we can live in a
55:26
Speaker 2: country that can produce such greatness, we've also got to
55:29
Speaker 2: look at the cracks and make sure that no kids
55:32
Speaker 2: fall down on them.
55:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, mate, congrats on what you're doing. You're awesome.
55:37
Speaker 1: Hopefully you'll hear from some of my listeners jump on.
55:43
Speaker 1: Is it the Rough Track website.
55:44
Speaker 2: That website or even you know, a free and easy
55:49
Speaker 2: thing to do is saying kind words. You know, when
55:51
Speaker 2: we put in our social media on the Rough Track
55:53
Speaker 2: Facebook page or Instagram, the kids doing things, all the
55:57
Speaker 2: kids watch it. All the kids are on there, of course,
56:00
Speaker 2: and if you just say kind things and you know,
56:03
Speaker 2: ensure that the kids know that people are watching and
56:05
Speaker 2: people care. That's another big way. And when the kids
56:08
Speaker 2: are all out and about it in their bright orange
56:11
Speaker 2: doing community service or doing a big production or a
56:14
Speaker 2: show at any of the Royal shows in each big
56:16
Speaker 2: city in Australia, just giving them a really rapturous applause.
56:20
Speaker 2: You know that's that going to make the difference in
56:22
Speaker 2: a kid's day.
56:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, mate, stay there. We will say goodbye affair,
56:27
Speaker 1: but for the moment, Farmer Dave, you're a gun and
56:30
Speaker 1: we appreciate you and love the work you're doing. And
56:35
Speaker 1: thanks so much for your time and for hanging out
56:36
Speaker 1: with us on the You project.
56:38
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
56:39
Speaker 1: Thanks mate,