Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 15 Years After Maddie McCann Disappears, Suspect Named

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15 Years After Maddie McCann Disappears, Suspect Named · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Can you imagine going on
0:15
Speaker 1: a dream trip with your family. I plan one every
0:19
Speaker 1: summer during COVID. It's been RV trips, but in the
0:24
Speaker 1: middle of your dream trip to have your baby girl disappear.
0:31
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:34
Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and series x
0:37
Speaker 1: M one eleven. I'm talking about Maddie McCann. That's right,
0:43
Speaker 1: Madeleine McCann. Take a listen to our cut twenty five
0:47
Speaker 1: our friends at wt HR. Finally, is there a break
0:50
Speaker 1: in the case. We do have an update now for
0:53
Speaker 1: you on a fifteen year long missing child investigation. Prosecutors
0:57
Speaker 1: in Portugal now believe they have a suspect in the
1:01
Speaker 1: Madeline McCann case. You might remember that was a three
1:04
Speaker 1: little three year old little girl from Britain who vanished
1:07
Speaker 1: while she was vacationing with her family back in two
1:10
Speaker 1: thousand and seven at a resort. The suspect's identity has
1:14
Speaker 1: yet to be released. We do know he now is
1:17
Speaker 1: in custody for another crime. He also has a previous
1:20
Speaker 1: conviction in a child's sexual abuse case. I can't thank
1:24
Speaker 1: you for being with us Simancy graysones his crime stories.
1:29
Speaker 1: I'm concerned that it has taken this long for police
1:34
Speaker 1: to hone in on who they now say is the
1:39
Speaker 1: official suspect in the disappearance of Maddie McCann. First of all,
1:45
Speaker 1: what happened to Mattie? Joining me? An all star panel
1:50
Speaker 1: to make sense of what we know right now? High
1:53
Speaker 1: profile lawyer joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, former
1:56
Speaker 1: prosecutor of felony crimes just like this one now offense
2:00
Speaker 1: attorney Darryl Cohen. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists, joining us,
2:05
Speaker 1: also from the Atlanta jurisdiction, and you can find her
2:09
Speaker 1: at her website. Doctor Angela Arnold, MD dot com. Special
2:14
Speaker 1: Deputy Sheriff Johnson County Sheriff's Office, Executive Director of the
2:18
Speaker 1: Kelsey Smith Foundation, Greg Smith joining us the first to
2:22
Speaker 1: Charlie Langston, Editor Dailymail dot com. Charlie, thank you for
2:27
Speaker 1: being with us. Charlie, what a long time we've waited
2:31
Speaker 1: for justice. And then Mattie McCann disappearance or should I
2:35
Speaker 1: just call it like it is, Charlie, Then Mattie McCann
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Speaker 1: murder this little girl just three years old, when she
2:42
Speaker 1: was abducted. I mean, this is a case as a
2:45
Speaker 1: brit It's something that has been a part of my
2:48
Speaker 1: life for over a decade now, and I think the
2:53
Speaker 1: incredible interest that remains in this case and in all
2:57
Speaker 1: of its developments just go to how much of a
3:01
Speaker 1: sensational crime this was. It was devastating to the entire country,
3:06
Speaker 1: to the entire world to see this three year old
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Speaker 1: girl disappear without a trace, and to see her parents
3:13
Speaker 1: year after year begging the authorities, begging the public to
3:18
Speaker 1: help them try and find out what has happened to
3:21
Speaker 1: their child. You're right, Charlie, just seeing the mccns crying
3:26
Speaker 1: and begging, and of course under the circumstances where little
3:30
Speaker 1: baby Manny went missing, they were first suspected, which tore
3:35
Speaker 1: them up all the more. Guys, who is this guy
3:39
Speaker 1: that is now the suspect? Finally, he's been in their
3:43
Speaker 1: crosshars for a long time. I don't know what has
3:46
Speaker 1: taken them so long to name him an official suspect.
3:50
Speaker 1: Taking listen to Erica three our friends at Sky but
3:52
Speaker 1: Madeline McCann's parents, there's still hope she's alive. But prosecutor
3:56
Speaker 1: hands Christian voters, says he's leading a murder investigation. Madeleine's
4:01
Speaker 1: parents still believe she could be alive. Why do you
4:04
Speaker 1: call it a murder investigation. There's so many facts that
4:09
Speaker 1: she's dead, so there's no muclict opportunity opportunity that she
4:17
Speaker 1: is still living. The case against the new suspect, Christian
4:20
Speaker 1: B is circumstantial. He's a convicted child sex abuser. He
4:25
Speaker 1: lived along Portugal's Algalve coast for twelve years. His last
4:30
Speaker 1: home was in prior to Luge, where Madeline vanished. His
4:33
Speaker 1: phone was used outside the McCann apartment the night she disappeared.
4:38
Speaker 1: Laijah from Melin mckenn Vegin Abadaf and Astasi towards us.
4:42
Speaker 1: We don't have Madeleine mckenn's body, but we expect that
4:45
Speaker 1: she's dead. We have some evidence that the suspect has
4:48
Speaker 1: done the deed, but we need more information from people
4:51
Speaker 1: places he has lived, so we can target these places
4:54
Speaker 1: especially and search there for Madeline. You know, I find
4:57
Speaker 1: it really interesting out to Greg Smith, special Deputy sheriff
5:01
Speaker 1: joining us Join County. You of all people know the
5:06
Speaker 1: power of the ping, okay, the power of a cell
5:10
Speaker 1: phone ping? Did I just hear Greg Smith that this
5:15
Speaker 1: guy cell phone ping just outside Mattie McCann's apartment. It
5:23
Speaker 1: was like an Airbnb where they were staying at this
5:28
Speaker 1: plush resort. They didn't know that before. Now, well, NANC
5:33
Speaker 1: depends on how they did it. I mean, there is
5:37
Speaker 1: a way to get lives location data, you know, at
5:41
Speaker 1: the time of the crime. That type of thing, the
5:44
Speaker 1: stuff that I work on all the time. There's also
5:47
Speaker 1: a way to get that data though, from historical data,
5:49
Speaker 1: from what's known as CDRs, are called detailed records. You
5:53
Speaker 1: can go back and get the information on which towers
5:57
Speaker 1: a phone contacted, and their software you can that into
6:00
Speaker 1: and it'll map that out and you can actually see
6:03
Speaker 1: where that phone has traveled. So it would be interesting
6:06
Speaker 1: to know when they got that information. How long ago
6:11
Speaker 1: did they get it. Is it something they just recently said, Hey,
6:14
Speaker 1: we can do this. I mean, you know, there's a
6:16
Speaker 1: lot of questions here, but yeah, fifteen years is a
6:19
Speaker 1: long time, you know. Charlie Linkson, I don't understand that
6:22
Speaker 1: Charlie Linkson joining us report with dailymail dot com. She's
6:25
Speaker 1: the editor of Female Femail. I don't understand it. If
6:30
Speaker 1: he is linked outside where our parents were staying at
6:35
Speaker 1: the time. Why has it taken them so long? You know,
6:38
Speaker 1: this whole case has just been filled with era after
6:42
Speaker 1: era after era, starting right from the jump when Maddie disappeared.
6:47
Speaker 1: The Portuguese police came under huge criticism at the time
6:50
Speaker 1: because they failed to take any action immediately, which we
6:54
Speaker 1: now believe allowed this suspect, this man to get out
6:59
Speaker 1: of Portugal. As soon as the media for all began
7:02
Speaker 1: around the Maddie McCann case, this guy slipped out of
7:06
Speaker 1: Portugal and we believe went back to Germany. None of
7:09
Speaker 1: the boarders were locked down, none of that stuff was
7:11
Speaker 1: put into place, and that allowed him to walk right
7:14
Speaker 1: out of the country. So to even know that he
7:18
Speaker 1: was there at the time, we would have had to
7:21
Speaker 1: have identified him as being in Portugal. Nobody knew at
7:24
Speaker 1: the time because he was allowed to flee before anyone
7:28
Speaker 1: could even raise him as a suspect. And at that time,
7:31
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, he was already a sex offender. He had
7:36
Speaker 1: been molesting little girls, oggling them, just a long, long history.
7:45
Speaker 1: How he was moving so freely from one country to
7:49
Speaker 1: the next. Nancy, you have to wonder where the police were,
7:53
Speaker 1: where their eyes were where their head was, and their
7:55
Speaker 1: hands weren't moving the way they should. Hear well, obviously
7:58
Speaker 1: I know where their heads were up their rear ends
8:02
Speaker 1: because this guy was allowed to wander around right there
8:06
Speaker 1: where this child was staying. And there are now other
8:10
Speaker 1: cases a rape of a US citizen in the area,
8:14
Speaker 1: and a sex attack on another elderly lady, another young
8:19
Speaker 1: girl who goes missing not too too far away around
8:23
Speaker 1: the age and very physically similar to Mattie McCann. And
8:28
Speaker 1: he's connected to all these things that I know. I know,
8:31
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, that you would scream bloody murder at trial
8:35
Speaker 1: if I did this. But don't you think it's quite
8:38
Speaker 1: the coincidence that where the elderly woman is raped, where
8:43
Speaker 1: the US citizen is raped, where the other little girl
8:46
Speaker 1: goes missing, that looks like Mattie McCann. Where Maddie goes missing,
8:51
Speaker 1: he's always in the area, he's always right there, a
8:55
Speaker 1: couple of blocks away. That doesn't bother you. I absolutely
8:58
Speaker 1: admit it is not a coincidence, because I don't believe
9:01
Speaker 1: in coincidences. But I am very concerned about the lack
9:06
Speaker 1: of appropriate police work in their investigation. What dead end
9:11
Speaker 1: until finally and maybe now we'll have justice, just maybe. Guys,
9:16
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen now to our
9:18
Speaker 1: cut eighteen our friends at Sky News, and this is
9:21
Speaker 1: about the possibility that some of Madeline baby Mada McCann's
9:26
Speaker 1: clothes were found in an area. I don't know if
9:31
Speaker 1: you guys have this, but in a lot of areas,
9:34
Speaker 1: especially densely populated areas, there are patches of ground where
9:39
Speaker 1: people can plant a garden, they can have a structure there.
9:46
Speaker 1: That is what this guy had, this Christian Bruckner, and
9:51
Speaker 1: it is there that we believe there's a possibility that
9:55
Speaker 1: some of Maddie's clothes were buried. Take a listen. Do
9:59
Speaker 1: you still have this same suspect you had three months ago? Yes,
10:03
Speaker 1: we have only one suspect, only Christian be How much
10:06
Speaker 1: information have you been sent? We've got hundreds of hints.
10:11
Speaker 1: Of course, there are some hints which are only rubbish,
10:15
Speaker 1: but there are some hints we are hopeful that can
10:21
Speaker 1: make our investigation more successful. Three months ago, you said
10:27
Speaker 1: you needed good evidence, forensic evidence. Have you found that yet?
10:33
Speaker 1: We have no forensic evidence, but it's not necessary to
10:37
Speaker 1: have forensic evidence to charge our suspect, but we need
10:41
Speaker 1: some more evidence, maybe a witness, maybe a photo or
10:45
Speaker 1: a video. I asked the prosecutor what evidence he has
10:49
Speaker 1: that makes him certain that Madeline is dead. He won't say,
10:54
Speaker 1: but he is aware of rumors. Someone told me that
10:57
Speaker 1: we have found the clothes of Yes, the pajamas. Yeah,
11:02
Speaker 1: but it's not true. If we found something like that,
11:05
Speaker 1: it would be great for our investigation. I just get
11:09
Speaker 1: the sense of the keystone cost time stories with Nancy Grace. Okay,
11:27
Speaker 1: first there were claims they had found some for closes.
11:29
Speaker 1: Then there were claims they didn't find some of her clothes.
11:32
Speaker 1: But the most hotly contested piece of evidence linking Christian
11:36
Speaker 1: Bruckner to Maddie McCann is we believe a photo or
11:41
Speaker 1: a video of her. Now why would he have that?
11:45
Speaker 1: Take us? Now we're cut nineteen our friends inside edition,
11:49
Speaker 1: Peter van Send questioned prosecutor Hans Christian Vaulters about the investigation.
11:55
Speaker 1: We have strong evidence that Christian be killed Maddie McCann.
11:59
Speaker 1: But you don't have a body, correct, there's no body. No,
12:03
Speaker 1: we have no forensic evidence. Then how can you be
12:06
Speaker 1: so certain we have evidence? And may I speculate that
12:10
Speaker 1: that evidence may include photographs or video of Maddie McCann.
12:15
Speaker 1: You may speculate, but I'm not allowed tool tell you
12:21
Speaker 1: if you are right or if you are wrong. Forty
12:24
Speaker 1: eight Hours reports that a search of an abandoned warehouse
12:27
Speaker 1: that once belonged to the suspect turned up USB drives
12:31
Speaker 1: that contain pictures and videos of child abuse. The prosecutor
12:35
Speaker 1: wouldn't confirm if images of Madeline were on the drives.
12:38
Speaker 1: Let me go out to doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists
12:42
Speaker 1: joining us, Doctor Angie. It's one thing to molested child,
12:49
Speaker 1: it's another thing to video it. Because if in fact
12:54
Speaker 1: Rutner had video or photos of Maddie McCann, you would
13:00
Speaker 1: have to have made them himself, because at that time
13:03
Speaker 1: Maddie was not public, there were not pictures and video
13:06
Speaker 1: off her online. He would have to have made it,
13:10
Speaker 1: which means it would have been most likely video of
13:13
Speaker 1: him raping or torturing this three year old little girl. Well,
13:16
Speaker 1: and the horrific thing is if you if you video
13:19
Speaker 1: something so that you can watch it over and over
13:21
Speaker 1: again because you get some sort of thrill out of
13:24
Speaker 1: doing it and watching it over again. It also means
13:28
Speaker 1: that this was this had some planning on his part,
13:31
Speaker 1: doesn't it. The thing that just gets me is that
13:34
Speaker 1: fifteen years later, they're asking if there's still alive, if
13:37
Speaker 1: she's still live. Maybe if they had have done their
13:40
Speaker 1: work in the beginning, if she was still alive, they
13:42
Speaker 1: could have found her then. I don't know why they
13:44
Speaker 1: think that all of a sudden she's going to be
13:46
Speaker 1: still alive fifteen years later. How are they ever going
13:49
Speaker 1: to find her? Well, I don't know that anyone has
13:52
Speaker 1: said that she is still alive, and that's not and
13:56
Speaker 1: that's not his m o. Apparently he's you know, he
14:00
Speaker 1: if he did it, he raped her, he abused her,
14:03
Speaker 1: he filmed it, and because of all the bumbling around
14:06
Speaker 1: in this in the police in this country, he's gotten
14:10
Speaker 1: away with it for this long. It's horrible what happened
14:13
Speaker 1: the night that this little girl seemingly vanishes into thin
14:18
Speaker 1: air while on vacation with your family. Take a listen
14:21
Speaker 1: to our friends at Sky a three year old British
14:23
Speaker 1: girl has gone missing in the our Garve in Portugal.
14:26
Speaker 1: Of course we can speak out to Dan Mason, who's
14:28
Speaker 1: a journalist who works in that area. Dan, thanks for
14:30
Speaker 1: joining us on Sky New Sunrise this morning. What are
14:32
Speaker 1: the details that you've gleaned so far? Hell yeah, all
14:37
Speaker 1: I basically know is that the child was obvious staying
14:40
Speaker 1: a Mark Warner establishment and was reported missing around him
14:45
Speaker 1: last night. She's three years old, assist the name of
14:50
Speaker 1: Madeline or Maddie fair Hair and the most of the
14:57
Speaker 1: people in the area. We're searching through four o'clock in
15:00
Speaker 1: the morning yesterday, obviously through hedges and down the Great etc.
15:07
Speaker 1: To Norville and I've just been down this morning to
15:10
Speaker 1: the club again to see so any more news in
15:12
Speaker 1: the situation is basically the same. Straight out to Charlie
15:15
Speaker 1: length In, joining us from dailymail dot com. Charlie again,
15:18
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Exactly what happened surrounding
15:23
Speaker 1: her disappearance. So, the disappearance happened while Maddie's parents and
15:29
Speaker 1: their friends were out at a restaurant in Portugal. They
15:33
Speaker 1: were dining at a place about one hundred and eighty
15:35
Speaker 1: feet away from where they were staying. Throughout the night,
15:39
Speaker 1: the parents went back checked on the children, and at
15:42
Speaker 1: ten pm, Kate went back Maddie's mom to find that
15:46
Speaker 1: Maddie had disappeared from her bed. Obviously, as any mother would,
15:51
Speaker 1: she flew into a blind panic, alerted as many people
15:55
Speaker 1: as she possibly could. They then spent the entire night
15:59
Speaker 1: hunting for Maddie, but couldn't find her anywhere. Now, Portuguese
16:03
Speaker 1: authorities did not issue They didn't even issue a description
16:07
Speaker 1: of Maddie until around twenty four hours after she had disappeared.
16:11
Speaker 1: They didn't lock down any kind of entrance or exit
16:15
Speaker 1: from the town where the family was staying, And it
16:18
Speaker 1: really was just a horrific comedy of errors that continued
16:23
Speaker 1: right up until the point when Maddie's parents, Captain Jerry,
16:27
Speaker 1: were named as official suspects because Portuguese police accused them
16:32
Speaker 1: of killing their daughter in some tragic accident in the
16:36
Speaker 1: apartment and then trying to cover it up. So fifteen
16:40
Speaker 1: years later, we have a man being named as an
16:43
Speaker 1: official suspect for the very first time since Maddie's own
16:47
Speaker 1: parents were accused of killing their child. I think that
16:50
Speaker 1: there was a lot of public outrage that the parents
16:55
Speaker 1: left her and her siblings in the hotel room while
16:59
Speaker 1: they went to have dinner. True it was only one
17:02
Speaker 1: hundred feet away. True, they had nothing to do with
17:06
Speaker 1: her disappearance, but still it was a real witch burning.
17:10
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, go after the people who were closest to
17:15
Speaker 1: what appears to be a victim easier than going after
17:20
Speaker 1: the real investigation, Easier than saying, don't have a suspect.
17:26
Speaker 1: Suspects yet, we're looking carefully, Easier than looking at trigging
17:32
Speaker 1: this net and finding this guy who was a convicted
17:37
Speaker 1: child molester. Who finding this guy who went after a
17:41
Speaker 1: girl that looked like Mattie. I mean, this is outrageous.
17:45
Speaker 1: You know. Another thing about it to you, Greg Smith,
17:48
Speaker 1: I agree with Daryl Cohen. The fact that they focused
17:52
Speaker 1: so much on the parents at the get go really
17:56
Speaker 1: delayed the search for Mattie's And another thing, Greg Smith, Greg,
18:03
Speaker 1: the very first thing when a woman or a child
18:07
Speaker 1: goes missing, you look for sex predators in the area
18:12
Speaker 1: and who is in the area unmonitored Christian Bruckner, they
18:18
Speaker 1: did nothing. Yeah, that's standard procedure. Nanswy. You you immediately checked.
18:24
Speaker 1: I mean here in Kansas we have the sex spender registry,
18:27
Speaker 1: so um that was done. In Kelsey's case, that was
18:30
Speaker 1: one of the first things that was done. We'll see
18:32
Speaker 1: who's in the area who could have been in the area,
18:35
Speaker 1: interview them, talk to them, and while in a lot
18:40
Speaker 1: of these cases it turns out that there's a family
18:43
Speaker 1: member involved um there, and there's a tendency for police
18:48
Speaker 1: to focus on that. You've you've got to be aware
18:50
Speaker 1: of the big picture and be open minded and figure
18:54
Speaker 1: out that you know, they may not be the suspect,
18:56
Speaker 1: and you can't just hone in with a preconceived notion
18:58
Speaker 1: that this is what you've got. So, yeah, that's problematic.
19:03
Speaker 1: And not only that, do you Trolley Langston? It's my
19:06
Speaker 1: understanding that this announcement comes nearly fifteen years to the
19:11
Speaker 1: day that Maddie goes missing. Do you find that odd
19:16
Speaker 1: at all? Fifteen years to the day. It's actually not
19:20
Speaker 1: odd because Portugal has a fifteen year statute of limitation
19:26
Speaker 1: on crimes that would call for a ten plus year sentence.
19:31
Speaker 1: So I think the timing is actually in no way
19:34
Speaker 1: coincidental or strange. I think the timing is very very
19:38
Speaker 1: purposeful because Portuguese authorities know that if they don't do
19:43
Speaker 1: something right here, right now, then it may well be
19:46
Speaker 1: too late to ever punish whoever perpetrated this horrific crime
19:52
Speaker 1: and to ever find any kind of justice or at
19:55
Speaker 1: least answers for Kate and Jerry McCann. Well, you're right.
20:00
Speaker 1: What Charlie Langston is telling you is absolutely correct. I
20:04
Speaker 1: think that this is just the authorities trying to save
20:08
Speaker 1: their own skin in this case. Take a listen to
20:10
Speaker 1: arrocut twenty seven. Our friend Simon Jones Madeline went missing
20:15
Speaker 1: from a holiday apartment on the third of May two
20:17
Speaker 1: thousand and seven while her parents were having dinner at
20:20
Speaker 1: a nearby restaurant. In July twenty thirteen, the met Police
20:23
Speaker 1: opened its own investigation, saying it had new evidence and
20:27
Speaker 1: new witnesses, and it was in June twenty twenty that
20:30
Speaker 1: German police first revealed they had a suspect. There have
20:33
Speaker 1: been searches in Portugal, but no breakthrough. In less than
20:38
Speaker 1: two weeks, a statute of limitations would take effect, meaning
20:42
Speaker 1: under Portuguese law it would no longer be possible to
20:44
Speaker 1: make someone a person of interest. But it's understood this
20:48
Speaker 1: latest development is driven not by timing, but by strong
20:51
Speaker 1: indications that a crime has taken place. There have been
20:55
Speaker 1: many false dawns in the investigations into what happened to
20:58
Speaker 1: Police in Germany have previously worn their inquiry, like the others,
21:02
Speaker 1: could end without a charge, but Madeline's parents have always
21:07
Speaker 1: said they need to know what happened so they can
21:09
Speaker 1: find peace. So bottom line, it's now or never, and
21:15
Speaker 1: the Portuguese authorities are still, in my opinion, sitting on
21:20
Speaker 1: their thumb. They botched the case at the get go,
21:23
Speaker 1: and now the only way they may be able to
21:26
Speaker 1: prosecute this three year old little girl's killer is if
21:30
Speaker 1: they somehow produced a witness. They've blurted out publicly that
21:36
Speaker 1: they don't have any forensic evidence that hurt the case.
21:39
Speaker 1: But now I'm understanding trolling links and joining us from
21:42
Speaker 1: dalmail dot com that they are claiming they've got a witness.
21:46
Speaker 1: Now supposedly, yes, they are saying that they have a
21:50
Speaker 1: witness who may be able to come forward and link
21:54
Speaker 1: Christian be Christian Bruckner to the crime. But I should
21:58
Speaker 1: also point out that a TV special is due to
22:01
Speaker 1: air in the UK tomorrow in which four witnesses are
22:05
Speaker 1: understood to be coming forward to corroborate an alibi for
22:10
Speaker 1: Christian b which would once again, potentially, you know, completely
22:15
Speaker 1: ruin this whole case before it's even really got off
22:20
Speaker 1: the ground. So it will be interesting to see what
22:22
Speaker 1: happens tomorrow when these four people who are named, who
22:26
Speaker 1: supposedly have no connection to Christian b whatsoever, no reason
22:30
Speaker 1: to defend him, come forward and cooborate whatever alibi it
22:35
Speaker 1: is that he plans to offer. Well, you know what,
22:37
Speaker 1: Charlie Langston, I'll just burn that bridge when I get there,
22:41
Speaker 1: because I've had a lot of cases where the defense
22:44
Speaker 1: claims I've got an eyewitness to say fill in the blank,
22:48
Speaker 1: and you know what I said to that b s
22:52
Speaker 1: I'll stand on my own witnesses, because very often I've
22:57
Speaker 1: had witnesses come on for the defense. I remember one,
23:01
Speaker 1: very notably Daryl Cohen. They came on trying to tell
23:05
Speaker 1: me he saw what he saw the knight of a murder.
23:08
Speaker 1: I guess the defense did not count on me going
23:11
Speaker 1: to the scene and pointing out that that point of
23:15
Speaker 1: view was absolutely impossible because there's a thick hedge of
23:20
Speaker 1: bushes about six feet tall between the eyewitness and the murder.
23:26
Speaker 1: Impossible unless he flew over the hedge and looked down
23:30
Speaker 1: to see the murder. So I don't believe any eyewitness
23:34
Speaker 1: until they're tested by cross examination. As a matter of fact,
23:38
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen in the Black and White Letter of the Law,
23:42
Speaker 1: eyewitnesses can be tested as to their vision, the lighting,
23:47
Speaker 1: the distance at which they saw what they claimed to
23:49
Speaker 1: have seen. I mean, it's laid out in black and
23:53
Speaker 1: white how a so called eyewitness can be cross examined.
23:57
Speaker 1: So I'd like to get ahold of those eyewitness myself
24:00
Speaker 1: and see what's left of them after I've finish. I'd
24:03
Speaker 1: like to know what these eyewitnesses have to say. I
24:07
Speaker 1: would like to be able to cross examine them. I'm
24:10
Speaker 1: with you, but let's assume their testimony is impeccable. It
24:14
Speaker 1: doesn't stop the police. It doesn't stop the prosecutor the
24:18
Speaker 1: courts from trying this guy. And if the statue of
24:21
Speaker 1: limitations is running out, I would rather have some prosecutorial
24:26
Speaker 1: time incarceration than nothing at all. And if somehow he
24:31
Speaker 1: does this again, we'll get him. Explain what you're talking
24:33
Speaker 1: about and I both know there are times we know
24:36
Speaker 1: a person is guilty as a prosecutor, but we don't
24:39
Speaker 1: have enough evidence, and the statue of limitations is running
24:43
Speaker 1: in our country. Wouldn't have to worry about a murder
24:45
Speaker 1: statue of limitations. It doesn't exist. But they're in Portugal,
24:50
Speaker 1: it apparently does. So they can arrest him, they can
24:54
Speaker 1: try him and keep him incarcerated and keep the case
24:58
Speaker 1: running as long as possible, and if he is acquitted,
25:01
Speaker 1: so be it. But he's got he's spent time in jail,
25:06
Speaker 1: in prison, and also his name, his likeness, his face
25:11
Speaker 1: is all over the media, all over the press, and
25:14
Speaker 1: that's all he has to do is breathe again, and
25:17
Speaker 1: they've got him for something else. Sometimes you have to
25:19
Speaker 1: get even more than getting him the way you really
25:23
Speaker 1: want to. Let me just say, officially, I don't know
25:27
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Charlie Langston joining us from dailymail
25:30
Speaker 1: dot com. This guy is a child sex predator? What
25:36
Speaker 1: is his record? Why has he been labeled already a
25:40
Speaker 1: child six predator at the time he was skulking around
25:43
Speaker 1: Maddie McCann's airbnb. I mean, this mount is not just
25:47
Speaker 1: a child sex predator. He I mean he was described
25:50
Speaker 1: by a woman he used to be in a relationship
25:52
Speaker 1: with as a human pig. He has perpetrated so many
25:58
Speaker 1: sex crimes against children against women, ranging in ages from
26:02
Speaker 1: as you said, a seventy two year old American citizen
26:05
Speaker 1: who he is understood to have raped in Portugal in
26:09
Speaker 1: two thousand and five. Now he was not convicted of
26:12
Speaker 1: that crime until twenty nineteen. He is currently serving a
26:17
Speaker 1: jail sentence for that crime, seven year jail. Hold on,
26:20
Speaker 1: hold on, you know what, Charlie, you know the fact
26:23
Speaker 1: so well? Listening to us like Jenking when the fire
26:25
Speaker 1: hydrant it's too much, too fast? Did you hear what
26:28
Speaker 1: Charlie Linkson just said. This guy, Christian Brickner is just
26:32
Speaker 1: now serving a seven year sentence on a two thousand
26:36
Speaker 1: five rate of an elderly woman in Portugal, same place
26:42
Speaker 1: is where Maddie was stolen. That's a seven year sentence
26:47
Speaker 1: and he just now has started serving it. And it
26:51
Speaker 1: started the event happened in two thousand and five. So
26:55
Speaker 1: you've got that. Then you've got him being connected to
26:59
Speaker 1: the rape of an Irish tour represented in two thousand
27:03
Speaker 1: and four, exposing himself to children on a playground. But
27:08
Speaker 1: there's another little girl where he was near her at
27:12
Speaker 1: the time she goes missing. Is she looks so much
27:14
Speaker 1: like Maddie? What about that case? So much so that
27:18
Speaker 1: she was actually nicknamed German Maddie in the media. This
27:22
Speaker 1: was in twenty sixteen, and this is actually the first
27:25
Speaker 1: case that made people connect Christian Bruckner to the Maddie
27:30
Speaker 1: mccan case, because the similarities between the two was so
27:34
Speaker 1: astounding that it didn't seem plausible that he couldn't have
27:38
Speaker 1: been connected to the Madeline mccan case. But it's not
27:41
Speaker 1: until six years later that we're actually hearing for the
27:46
Speaker 1: very first time that he's been named a suspect. Did
27:48
Speaker 1: Angie hold the thought because I want to hear it,
27:52
Speaker 1: but I want to analyze what you just said. Didra
27:54
Speaker 1: Angie with me? Is renowned psychiatrist dicer Angela Arnold, doctor Jie.
28:00
Speaker 1: I remember a case. You might remember it too, Daryl Cohen.
28:04
Speaker 1: It's the case I tried this guy's serial killer. I
28:07
Speaker 1: got him on one and his victim will forever be
28:13
Speaker 1: a Jane Doe. She has never been identified. That's really
28:17
Speaker 1: hard to prove that kind of case because you can't
28:19
Speaker 1: if you don't know the victim. You don't know who
28:21
Speaker 1: they hung out with, where they're from, who was their
28:24
Speaker 1: last boyfriend. Anyway, she's found strangled, rape out in a field.
28:30
Speaker 1: Long story short, I got a bead on the purp,
28:35
Speaker 1: so I started looking for people that knew the Purp.
28:38
Speaker 1: I found his girlfriend, the mother of his child, who
28:42
Speaker 1: had kicked him out for trying to strangle her. I
28:46
Speaker 1: found another woman he tried to strangle in the Fulton Nose.
28:50
Speaker 1: She was in the Gwnette County jail, Daryl. I had
28:54
Speaker 1: a reconstructionist draw the picture of what the dead victim
28:58
Speaker 1: would have looked like in life. Guess who she looked like?
29:03
Speaker 1: Almost identically. They looked like twins his girlfriend that had
29:08
Speaker 1: rejected him and thrown him out of the house. And
29:12
Speaker 1: I put those two pictures, those two sketches, up in
29:15
Speaker 1: front of the jury and argued, who would have killed
29:20
Speaker 1: this woman other than the man who was rejected by
29:24
Speaker 1: this woman? Did you hear what Charlie Lankson just said?
29:29
Speaker 1: The German Maddie looks just like Maddie McCann, Doctor Angie,
29:36
Speaker 1: what about it that? See? The fact of the matter is,
29:39
Speaker 1: I don't understand why all of this information is being
29:42
Speaker 1: ignored because we have known for a very long time
29:46
Speaker 1: that unfortunately, sexual predators do not change their stripes, and
29:53
Speaker 1: they will continue and continue their behavior until they are stopped,
29:57
Speaker 1: which is why in the United States we have sexual
30:00
Speaker 1: predator list that we put them on Nancy, they are
30:04
Speaker 1: they are incapable of being rehabilitated. Doctor, and everything you
30:09
Speaker 1: just said is correct, but that is not responsive to
30:12
Speaker 1: the question I asked. I asked you about the physical
30:16
Speaker 1: similarities in victims. Why the perpetrators do that, because they're
30:21
Speaker 1: they're playing out their fantasy, whatever it is, they're playing
30:26
Speaker 1: it out through another person that looks just like that person.
30:29
Speaker 1: It's it's it's right out there, Nancy. It's it's simple.
30:33
Speaker 1: We're not looking for a zebra. They are acting it
30:36
Speaker 1: out on someone who looks just like the other person.
30:39
Speaker 1: They're acting out that that violent fantasy that they have,
30:43
Speaker 1: their aggressions, their control. This is all about control also, Nancy. Okay,
30:49
Speaker 1: let's remember that crime stories with Nancy Grace to Daryl Cohen, Darryl.
31:13
Speaker 1: It's what we call in the law, a similar transaction.
31:16
Speaker 1: And when you can show it's a fingerprint crime like
31:20
Speaker 1: another little girl the same age, with strikingly similar physical attribute,
31:26
Speaker 1: stolen in the same way, raped and murdered that way,
31:31
Speaker 1: at least in this country, that evidence can come in. Normally,
31:34
Speaker 1: under the constitution, a defendant cannot have past crimes or
31:37
Speaker 1: bad acts come before a jury because they're to be
31:40
Speaker 1: judged on on their reputation or their pastor on that
31:43
Speaker 1: particular case. But when the cases they're so similar, they
31:46
Speaker 1: are allowed explain. When they are similar transactions, the girls
31:51
Speaker 1: look alike, the crime is probably similar, if not the same,
31:55
Speaker 1: then you can in this country at least you can
31:58
Speaker 1: enter that into evidence, can have the triers of fact.
32:02
Speaker 1: The judge, the jury listen to it and pay attention
32:06
Speaker 1: to it because it is exactly the same. You just
32:10
Speaker 1: transpose one person for another, but the circumstances are the same,
32:16
Speaker 1: so that is absolutely admissible here. I cannot speak for Portugal.
32:20
Speaker 1: I am sorry, Charlie Langston. It has been reported that
32:24
Speaker 1: prosecutors are quote one hundred sure that Christian Bruckner is
32:31
Speaker 1: the part that took Maddie. Why now, and what do
32:35
Speaker 1: you think the evidence is? I mean, I think the
32:38
Speaker 1: evidence is all circumstantial in terms of he is just
32:44
Speaker 1: a truly horrendous man who has perpetrated crime after crime
32:50
Speaker 1: after crime against women and children. He has a history
32:54
Speaker 1: of perpetrating crimes exactly like that one in the Maddie
32:58
Speaker 1: McCann case. Now we said earlier it wasn't his moo
33:02
Speaker 1: typically to you know, murder one of his victims. However,
33:07
Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember the media farraw around
33:11
Speaker 1: this case was so extraordinary that there would have been
33:16
Speaker 1: no way for someone to perpetrate this crime and not
33:22
Speaker 1: be charged with it. Had she returned to her parents,
33:25
Speaker 1: had she been found, had the police managed to track
33:29
Speaker 1: her down in one way or another, there's no way
33:32
Speaker 1: that the person who committed this crime wouldn't have been found.
33:36
Speaker 1: So I think tragically, While I understand how important it
33:41
Speaker 1: was to her parents to call attention to this case,
33:44
Speaker 1: I think the enormous public interest in it may well
33:49
Speaker 1: have sealed Maddie's death, and that, to me is the
33:53
Speaker 1: most horrendous thing about this. It took the police so
33:56
Speaker 1: long to begin properly investigating this case that Maddie could
34:01
Speaker 1: have survived had they actually pulled the sox up and
34:05
Speaker 1: gotten on with things in the you know, from the
34:07
Speaker 1: get go. I understand what you're saying if she has
34:09
Speaker 1: still been alive, but Greg Smith joining us a special
34:12
Speaker 1: Deputy sheriff, the reality is when children are taken at
34:16
Speaker 1: this age, typically they are killed within the first seventy
34:21
Speaker 1: six hours. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, that's uh, I mean, that's
34:24
Speaker 1: the modus operandi for for young children. You know, and
34:29
Speaker 1: and I don't know that media attention is a bad thing. Um,
34:33
Speaker 1: maybe a double edged sword. But Kelsey's case had a
34:38
Speaker 1: heck of a lot of media attention. We were on
34:40
Speaker 1: every news outlet in the United States and even international. Um.
34:44
Speaker 1: And while Kelsey didn't come home alive, she came home.
34:47
Speaker 1: We found her. Now I'm thinking about what you're saying, guys. Uh,
34:52
Speaker 1: for those of you just joining us, an official suspect
34:55
Speaker 1: has finally been named in the disappearance of a three
34:59
Speaker 1: year old little girl, Maddie McCann. Take a listen to
35:03
Speaker 1: our cut twenty eight our friend alson Roberts. Yesterday they
35:06
Speaker 1: issued a statement saying that on Wednesday an individual had
35:12
Speaker 1: been named as an official suspect. That was an international
35:16
Speaker 1: request from Portugal to the German authorities to inform that
35:21
Speaker 1: person of interest that they had been made an official suspect.
35:24
Speaker 1: As your previous interview, he said, this is always a
35:27
Speaker 1: significant step because it means effectively that someone is being
35:30
Speaker 1: or will soon be questioned under caution. That's the same
35:33
Speaker 1: questions maybe put that could incriminate them, which gives them
35:36
Speaker 1: the right not to answer. Of course, so it's actually
35:39
Speaker 1: a status to protect that individual, but it is always
35:42
Speaker 1: significant as it's a necessary prelude to charges at some point,
35:45
Speaker 1: although there is no sign of that just yet, no
35:49
Speaker 1: sign of official charges after he has been named a suspect.
35:53
Speaker 1: What does that mean, Charlie. He has been named an
35:55
Speaker 1: official suspect, so why won't charges naturally follow? Well? What
35:59
Speaker 1: I think is the next most obvious step is that
36:03
Speaker 1: he will be extradited from Germany to Portugal, and that
36:07
Speaker 1: is when charges may well be brought against him. But
36:11
Speaker 1: right now I think what is going on behind the
36:13
Speaker 1: scenes is that Portuguese authorities, in conjunction with German authorities,
36:18
Speaker 1: are scrambling to try and get as much evidence as
36:21
Speaker 1: humanly possible, to try and get some witnesses who will
36:26
Speaker 1: come forward and at least say I saw him at
36:29
Speaker 1: this place, I saw him here. I know that he
36:32
Speaker 1: is a sex offender, whatever it may be. And right
36:36
Speaker 1: now I think the most important thing is that he
36:40
Speaker 1: has been named as a suspect again, the first official
36:43
Speaker 1: suspect in fifteen years, which marks at least a step
36:48
Speaker 1: forward in a case that has been dragging on for
36:51
Speaker 1: more than a decade. Now. Surelie, were Maddy's parents ever
36:55
Speaker 1: named official suspects. Yes, they were named as official persons
36:59
Speaker 1: of interest way back in two thousand and seven, and interestingly,
37:05
Speaker 1: at the time they had a huge amount of public
37:08
Speaker 1: criticism aimed at them. They were accused of neglect. Portuguese
37:12
Speaker 1: authorities suspected that Madeleine had died in a tragic accident
37:16
Speaker 1: in the apartment that her parents had then tried to
37:18
Speaker 1: cover up. Now. They stopped being official suspects in two
37:23
Speaker 1: thousand and eight when Portuguese authorities dropped the case completely
37:28
Speaker 1: because there was a lack of evidence. Ever since then,
37:32
Speaker 1: not a single official suspect has been named until now.
37:35
Speaker 1: Take listen to a twenty nine our friend Martin Brant.
37:39
Speaker 1: It's hardly been a secret. The German drifter has been
37:42
Speaker 1: the main suspect in the Madeline McCann case for three
37:45
Speaker 1: years or more, but now it's official. Christian b is
37:50
Speaker 1: suspected of abducting and killing Madeline. German prosecutors are leading
37:55
Speaker 1: the investigation but haven't charged him. The British girl was
37:59
Speaker 1: three when she vanished from the family's holiday apartment in
38:02
Speaker 1: Portugal in two thousand and seven, fifteen years ago. This week,
38:07
Speaker 1: the suspect had visitors to the German prison where he's
38:11
Speaker 1: serving a rape sentence. He was told that Portuguese prosecutors
38:15
Speaker 1: had made him an arguido, a formal suspect. He was
38:20
Speaker 1: questioned for the first time but refused to answer. That's
38:23
Speaker 1: really lengthen being named a formal suspect there in that jurisdiction.
38:29
Speaker 1: That's the first time cups could question him, yes, the
38:33
Speaker 1: first time, and he remained entirely silent throughout. He refused
38:38
Speaker 1: to answer a single question. But interestingly, a woman that
38:43
Speaker 1: he was in a relationship with previously, she came forward
38:47
Speaker 1: last week and she said that he told her in
38:50
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, I know what happened to little Maddie. She
38:54
Speaker 1: also suggested that he may have been the abductor, the abuser,
38:58
Speaker 1: and that he may have passed Maddie off to someone else.
39:02
Speaker 1: So there are still an extraordinary number of questions surrounding
39:07
Speaker 1: this case. However, the mere fact that he's been named
39:10
Speaker 1: as an official suspect. I really can't overstate what a
39:14
Speaker 1: key step forward that is in this case, especially given
39:18
Speaker 1: that he's only the third person when you look at
39:21
Speaker 1: Kate and Jerry McCann, only the third official suspect to
39:25
Speaker 1: ever be named by Portuguese authorities. Will there be justice
39:29
Speaker 1: for Mannie McCann. We wait as justice spools. Nancy Grace
39:34
Speaker 1: Cramb story signing off