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50. Tracy Cartwright’s Journey of Healing Through Family Constellations with Antonia Kersting · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Kiora and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Tracy Cartwright.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators for and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are flipping the switch on this episode, and beautiful Antonia Kirsting is going to interview me.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh a suggestion that she put out to me a little while ago, and so we're making this happen.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome, Antonia.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give you the floor and see where this goes to.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It might uh might be surprising for people.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm so happy that we could make this happen.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I when I was on your podcast a few months ago, um, I just love the way that, you know, you interviewed me and I've enjoyed listening to the other episodes and listening to the little bits and pieces of your own story that have peeked through at different times.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought it would be really fun for the listeners and, you know, to also get like kind of more like coherent story of Tracy because you've lived an incredible life and you've had all these amazing experiences, and you're obviously a fantastic facilitator.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought it'd be really great to give you the floor today and get to know you and your journey with constellations a little bit more.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really excited to be here and do this with you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited too.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I call my uh call it a colourful life.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Life make for the best paintings, right?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think we can dive right in.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to start with just a story of like when you attended your first constellation and or like the first time you met constellation, and how was that experience for you?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was in the early 20, around 2010, 11-ish, somewhere around there.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And my father, my father had been diagnosed with terminal cancer.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a little bit of the backstory.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I had been taking him to hospital visits and stuff like that.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd heard about constellations, someone had been sharing information with me about it, and I didn't quite grasp the concept of it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad, who bless him, bless his soul, he was really good at activating some big life-changing situations for me.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: He'd had an operation and they'd basically open him up, close him up, and said, Go home and get your affairs in order.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, all of us kids had come together, and it was an operation in a town that we didn't live in, so I had to transport him down there and stuff.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that was all cool.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Standing around his bedside, the my brothers left, my mum left with the boys, and um my sister was standing there, and I'm standing on the other side of the bed.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he only had he had tunnel vision and he only saw her.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always known, always known that I wasn't his favourite child.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was one of those children that he often went, What the f have I got here?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's the description that um family friends would say he would say about me.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: What have I got here?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, he said some things to my sister around her being his favourite, love you, you know, you're my favorite.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And my heart sunk.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, for a moment I got angry, and then and I wanted to just vanish.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't angry with my sister, I was just angry with him because he had I had been doing all this stuff to be seen, and I wasn't being seen.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and I shuffled around and he looked at me and the look on his face, the total guilt and I guess shame too, of of what he well not shame, I don't know what it was.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was this look, an exchange between us.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just left the room and I was actually going later that day, I was flying from Auckland down to Wellington to go on what we call a Wananga, which was a healing weekend where I was to be using my healing gifts for a sort of a big free public event.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I bought myself a packet of cigarettes and I went down there angry and frustrated and lost.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: My little inner child rose up going, am I ever gonna know if he loves me?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like he didn't even see me after through all of this.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it was, yeah, I mean he was focused on himself.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I get that too.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was perfect.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when the I met a guy who was giving an explanation around constellations, he'd come from America and he was part of this event as well.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he gave a description around the work, and then he's like, Does anyone want to work?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm sitting there and my hand had gone up in the air, and I hadn't even noticed.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like all in amazement of it.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Oh, Tracy, and I went like, What?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Looking at my hand doing its own thing in the air.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got to sit in the hot seat and I could see.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: So when my parents had had had lost a couple of children, and then they had my sister, who was the miracle child because she survived, and then they had me, and I wasn't it had been recommended that they didn't have any more kids, but I came along.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: There was so much tension and fractured um energy between mum and dad, and I could see that, and I could see that there was hope for my relationship with my dad.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that it wasn't that he didn't love me, it was that he really couldn't see me.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it just made, I remember feeling like all this weight had fallen off me and the heaviness and the burden of of all of those things, you know, because I've been holding on to this for all my life, really, because there was another story around early life stuff.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what it did was it I felt like I had a new zest for life.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Felt like I, yeah, like I said, there was hope.
• 6:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I was lucky that I got another two years with dad, and we started to form a really beautiful relationship, a real beautiful connection.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and I never told any of them that I'd done this constellation.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: But in that time, I started training and of going to uh workshops and then um started training.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it really just flipped my life.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: But when I was sitting in the hot seat after the constellation, kind of, you know, when you got that you've had that big moment and you're sort of coming back into your body.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember hearing spirits say to me, This is what you've been waiting for.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: What you're here for.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting Yeah, you understand the work, you just gotta learn the psychology.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I had always, most of my life, well, all my life actually, been working and seeing in the unseen realms.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was not understood by anyone, by within my family system, because they had a story around mental illness.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I was encouraged to self-medicate from a very, very, very young age with alcohol.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then later on, uh I would I turned to drugs and yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, in a way, constellations gave you that window, that outlet to maybe put a bit of a framework around the experiences that you already had been having, and maybe a healthier outlet by the sounds of it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was sharing with someone just yesterday, actually, I went for a walk with uh someone who's interested in coming training with me, and I said to them, if constellations hadn't found me, I don't think I would be here because of all the turmoil that was going on in my mental health, my physical health, my self-destructive passions, I think I would have taken myself out.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Some way, consciously or unconsciously.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: I hear you.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: I I I really resonate with that.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: I have a similar experience.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I guess this kind of leads me to my next question.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so you started around 2010, 2011, and then you quite quickly got into the training aspect of it as well, right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And how have you noticed constellation change your life?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm hearing already, obviously, this relationship with your dad that shifted, but how has that impacted your life?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're saying it's it's saved your life in a way.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: So what does that look like in a more concrete way?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think the understanding of also how much I've taken on, how much I was entangled in my parents' relationship and their pain because they couldn't grieve the um particularly the first child that was lost, and how I was out of order in my family system, as the youngest trying to be one of my older siblings in their place.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give myself such a hard time.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I used to think everything was all I was taking the weight of the world on.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I've learned so much self-compassion, but also a deeper compassion for others as well.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like the often my mum I loved my mum, I loved it so much.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: There were times when she could be really quite bitter and judgmental, and and and we all had times when we were feeling judgmental, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: But through constellations I could see her pain.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And old me would have wanted to take it over, take it off her and find a way to make her feel better.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, through it, I learned to be able to leave it with her.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And interestingly enough, she lived with us for the last nine years of her life.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So and that was through a really there was a lot of growth and healing that happened in that time because she was in our house with us.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And there were times when I would go and have a piece of work done, or I'd go to an i an intensive or something like that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'd come home and I just wouldn't see her for days, even though we were in the same house and shared the same kitchen.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I needed time to integrate, so we'd just work out.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that I was hiding, it was just that needed to integrate.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just didn't line up that we bumped into the kitchen to make making a cup of tea or anything.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And a deeper love for my family.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: They all suffered and they had their experiences and you know, even for the perpetrators.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I had a lot of those.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of perpetrators on me, and I also perpetrated as well.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't know any different things that I regret.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I see the passions and I regret.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can't change it and only acknowledge it and take responsibility for it.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: How has your um, you know, because you talk about compassion for yourself, compassion for others, um, and having experienced quite a lot of abuse and trauma, including sexual trauma and abuse and assault, how have you found your relationship shifting, you know, in r dynamics with the with the perpetrators or the perpetrator?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that I I think, you know, um what's okay that you did that to me.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's that I had a deeper understanding of the bigger picture of things.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And this might sound a bit bizarre to pe some people, but I remember when certain things were happening between myself and my oldest brother.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard these words.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: It makes sense to me now, but at the time, because I was only young, I think I was about 17 that this things had happened over the years, but remember when I was about 17 and I heard this is happening.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're doing this for the family.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't make sense.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: We'll keep the family together.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I remember going, what?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: At the time when things were happening and didn't understand it.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have had really bizarre messages at strange times when things have been happening and not understood, but later on realised.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And when you think about now that I've learned uh constellations and understanding howling is theory around um, you know, siblings abuse, or even when there's maybe the father takes the daughter or the mother takes the son.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a way of unconsciously holding this energy of the family together.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Fulfilling what the parents haven't been able to resolve within their own within themselves.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Carrying that energy, and it's almost like that energetic thread of holding it together.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So there was and and I understand that now, but at the time, when I was 17, I just informed to me that I was a little bit crazy hearing that.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, that concept was so far, far between.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess it is one of the more controversial topics, right, in constellations, and it can be really um activating for people to frame it in this way.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I guess um I've I've seen it in my own work, and I'm imagining you have too, because this is kind of an area that you specialize in as well with your clients, is though that when that's acknowledged and voiced, how much relaxation that can actually bring to the system.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it's not about excusing what has happened or making it all right, or it's just about voicing sort of the orders and the facts and through that brings.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was the understanding of that.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely what you're saying.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and not giving an excuse, but understanding that in the deeper, the much bigger picture of the family soul, there was a broken energy that needed bending.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know my my brother would remember this because he was usually pretty out of it when these things were happening.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then that my response was to get out of it so that I could forget what was happening.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Makes sense, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a quite overwhelming experience.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when we have that violation of the body in that way, right?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: There is um often the easiest way to cope with that is to leave in one way or another, right?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Got really good at that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Do you find it easier now to stay?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it was a lot of practice.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very rarely leave my myself now, but it was just I look at my mum and she would do it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I look at my grandmother and she would do it.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know my great-grandmother.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: She died the year I was born.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: When I look back now, I can see just how disassociated they all were and the patterns that run in there.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's given me lots of resources.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I will say.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't wish it upon anyone.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: However, I I also know that I've got a lot of resources from them.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Mm.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, stairs.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Within that there has been gifts as well.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so far, touch wood that I have um when I have shared, and I usually and it's always in a very delicate and and uh mindful way when I'm sharing that information with people around howling his perspective on it, they agreed most people agree.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Most people underneath it all, and and it makes sense for them, and they kind of go, ah, and then we'll do this thing around, yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it wasn't what you did to me was painful and it wasn't okay.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and then they have that understanding of their deeper picture for the family soul.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like Yeah.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: I hear that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's the magic of constellations, right?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: That it's often like you're voicing these facts or you're voicing these orders, you're voicing these theories, and you can just see it kind of calm people's system down and they go, Wow, yeah, that's resonating within me, you know, like the people go, Whoa, that's touched something.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's I I feel like that's how you often know you're onto some sort of deeper, more universal truth.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because otherwise they would be more resistant to it, right?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, we do get, you know, sometimes we're really, really angry and we've got to get through all of that.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's fair enough too, absolutely.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much pain involved in all of that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: We all have our own journey with this, absolutely.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, if I can use the resources that I've received from all of my experiences to support someone else to find their way to healing, then um then that's a blessing, you know.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And this is from what I understand, this is also an area of like particular interest for you.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do you really love supporting women who have experienced whether it's um, you know, sexual assault or sexual abuse or sexual trauma of some description, um, and helping them through constellations to kind of come back to themselves and and find their voice.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to speak into that a little bit?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, because you know, like our yoni, so our all of our female organs are connected to our throat as well, like they mirror each other.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And often I see that um women and men who've had sexual trauma, there they'll have something here.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be some sort of issue within the throat, the thyroid, or they keep their voice or they've got thyroid and things going on around here anyway, front or back.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I help I help people find their voice, whatever that looks like.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's through sound, whether it's just through expression, just being able to speak it.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes those things are so locked away within us that we haven't been able to tell anyone.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you haven't been able to tell anyone what your father did to you, or what the neighbor's son did, or cousin.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or your brother.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or your husband.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or your friend.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: My first marriage was pretty rough.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember we lived in a little village and most people were a bit scared of my husband for good reasons.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And not my husband now, just to clarify that, my husband now is just so diff so total opposite.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: But my first husband.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um one day I was I just managed I happened to slip around saying because it was a secret, you know, things that were happening at home.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I said something and this person said to me, That's not normal.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, So he'd been raping me all night long.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I had just gotten into this pattern of that was normal.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know until someone said that to me.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: So someone said to me that's not normal.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was a mature woman, I was like probably I think I was about twenty-eight at the time.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I must have been younger than that because I was a I was trying to get out the door at twenty-eight.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Must have been about twenty-seven.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think anyway, you don't know.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Some people just we don't know what we don't know.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Growing up in a dysfunctional family, we don't know what we don't know.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I grew up in a normal family.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back, maybe not.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: That relational aspect, sometimes having something reflected from somebody else can be enough for us to go, oh hold on, maybe this is not right.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: And to m confirm what we sometimes feel on the inside, but don't have the the courage or the knowledge to affirm for ourselves.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of things you see on TV too, uh, the violence, the thing, it just becomes this programming.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if you don't know any better, like, you know, you can only do better when you know better, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what you're saying even before with your own patterns where you say I've been the perpetrator, and it's like, well, we can only acknowledge what has happened and do better in the future, right?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: We can't compare and like take accountability for what we've done and then do better in the future.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously we can't go back and and and change it.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: So so helping people define their voices also for me is around I love to tone.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was, you know, in the last four maybe six or seven years, I had this kind of like a voice activation happen um through my w with my friend Helen Barnes.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was sort of it was sitting under there anyway, it was kind of bubbling away, and she did this activation with me.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and since then, when things are in the field, so that the energy's moving around, I'll see sound and I'll uh sometimes I'll feel it and I'm like, well, how am I supposed to translate that?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they show me in words, and then I'm like, oh, how am I gonna get that sound out?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I just trust that the that what comes through me will be the right sound, and and and I encourage people to to use their voice to make sound and to be a little bit, you know.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: What society doesn't deem the normal, but you know, it makes your body feel really good.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Humming.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hum on planes, I get people to chant and hum while we're having cacao or find your voice, let it out.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: People have been silenced for too long.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, beautiful.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so interesting when you say that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: I get really curious because, you know, um, I think what is really important for people to know is that different facilitators perceive the field in a different way.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why we facilitate in different ways, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really curious for me to hear that for you it has this aspect of sound and like almost perceiving like the entanglements, I'm assuming, and like the the maybe the way forward also through sound, and that you're kind of the translator between what you're hearing and feeling to you know, uh supporting your clients to make those movements or make those sounds.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, can you explain that a little bit more?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's such a unique way of perceiving.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, like when I feel grief, because there was so much grief in my family system as well, and the that when I feel grief, it just rises and then I can bring that tone out, and that will usually, most often, allow someone to cry.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: They get to that frequency, just the floodgates can open up and they can release what's been in there that they haven't been able to to cry.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's their grandmother's grief that that's been built up inside them, or or their whatever they're running.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: On that calling home, like those are the things that I'm just thinking of that that are sort of when when you've got so in New Zealand, um when you go on to a Marae, they cut they call you in.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like this and even if you think of the Irish and the Scottish and and potentially, you know, I don't know the how what the traditions are like in Germany, um, but I'm thinking of Scandinavians as well.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's a like the yawling where they're calling, calling to the mountains, they're calling to the to the to the sea and to the land to the ancestors.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of that energy that comes through me.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's just that the field is a little bit stuck, and I'll walk around and and I drum as well.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was another thing that I did that my journey that I've shared here that I didn't want to do because I didn't want to be seen as a shaman.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll drum or I'll sound to break that frozen energy to clear to make a movement within the field, because sometimes it's just so stuck in fear and flight.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, might have drums in the background there, so it's a safe space.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I hear you.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: The sound can be such a beautiful way to snap that stuckness and like those old patterns into something where it's like, oh gosh, maybe there is a different way, or like maybe there is a movement, or you know, maybe there is a sound or something like that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I really hear that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like if someone's, for example, if someone's been sexually assaulted and and I can let out the the wail for them that that that was stuck there.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then then I say, come on, let's do this sound together, let's bring this out together.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they're able to do that, then they are able to move forward as well.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, beautiful.
• 23:31
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't do it on all my constellations, it's just um when it feels appropriate and Yeah, beautiful.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I know obviously you've been around for a long time and you know, you've it touched many lives already and been in many different constellations.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I know you also do a lot of collaborations with other facilitators and treats and um immersions.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I know you've just actually came from one.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um I won was wondering if you wanted to talk about that a little bit.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, beautiful.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've just been to Lombok with Susan Alshwager and Denise Warner.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And amazing, Lombok is an island beside Bali.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's its own, you know, it's a part of Indonesia.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we held a retreat called Yes to Life.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and it was named after an exercise that I do that I call it Yes to Life.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: There was quite a few people that came along that had no idea about constellations, but they knew the different facilitators and they wanted to and be part of the this experience.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: There was a they had this calling, didn't know why.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And for them it was incredibly transform transformative.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Stepping in and peeling back and letting go of of their blocks and they didn't have to worry about, you know, Janice down the road hearing the story about what they've let go of because they were there in a retreat in a in a sacred space in a completely another part of the world.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, beautiful.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we all all three of us work very differently, but we we um it's a beautiful collaboration.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just the things that we all bought to it and the layers that we put on top of it.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it'd been uh 18 months in the in the making, so and and we're thinking we'll probably do another one.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love collaborating with people.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think I have what's the word without sounding blowy.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think um you know it's fine.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm pretty easy to work with generally, you know, like I can collaborate, I can sort of go with different styles and yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, amazing.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty flexible, I think.
• 25:40
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I love just the variety.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I imagine.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's lovely what you were saying, you know, because that's the beauty about constellations that everyone brings their own flavour.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like you might get one answer from one facilitator and a very different answer from the same from a different facilitator, but it kind of all leads to the same point.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's just different ways of getting there.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there might be a different layer over here and a different layer over there, you know, that kind of gets peeled back by different people.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the beauty of the work.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: If you were going to explain constellations to somebody, you know, you ask the question of most people, how would you explain constellations to somebody who's never heard about it before?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So usually say what I do is intergenerational trauma work, and I help you to find what is hidden behind a situation, maybe an issue or a health issue or a blockage, something that you're repeating, a pattern.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Going back, because a large chunk, 95% of what we are doing is we're repeating patterns.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: We create our own stuff.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, so don't get that wrong.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: We do create our own stuff, but we also are unconsciously repeating patterns.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um I help to pinpoint the origins of it.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: We find ways of finding the right healing sentences to invite the field to give us the the words that are needed to be said, finding ways to release it so that we can be free of the entanglement and the burdens that we're carrying.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very nice.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I should say very if I'm in a cheeky mood, I say a little bit like a psychic detective, but not.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm feeling cheeky and I can't, you know, I don't want to go into the full description.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Same saying that different.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really psychic stuff.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes people just go, oh, okay, yeah.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm with a bit of psychology mixed in all of that, and you know, it's not channeling, so no, that's right.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite different, but that's just my get out of jail free cut, you know, make it quick.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I have I have a bit of a sense of humor that yeah, I can be a bit cheeky sometimes.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, that's great.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it doesn't always have to be so serious, right?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: Life's serious.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I try to bring my humour in quite a bit into my constellations, not to to dampen it down, but just more to to ease the headiness of it, really.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And not to not to be not respectful to the person.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: I hear that.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really hear that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: But it's sometimes, you know, in those really dark places, it can be so lovely to have that kernel of light, you know, because it's like we're also all more than our trauma, right?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: We are also available, and it's sometimes really good to be reminded of that, especially in those really heavy places.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have um a favorite, like or a story that's really stuck with you, or maybe something after our conversation that really has kind of come to your mind about constellation or a constellation story you'd really like to share?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's so many.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean we we kind of touched on this earlier um before we started recording.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: What would I say?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And one that's popping up, which is totally unrelated to anything that we've talked about so far.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: One that I did for a dog.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this lady said, Can you do a constellation for my dog?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, What the?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna do this?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, okay, because this was quite early on in my in my um learnings.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: And she had a dog that had been used by a gang to as a bait doll.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what that means?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's been been mauled quite a lot, and it was deemed a vicious breed, but um she'd been given permission by the SBCA to take the dog and because she had had quite a bit of experience with dogs.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, he he was quite anxious, and she had five acres of land, and he had free range of the property, the whole thing, you know, like there was a big fence around that was fenced enough that it was fine.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: She said, But you know, he's really anxious and he parks a lot, and and we go out, and he kind of people are afraid of him.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, But he's the loveliest doll.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like her little dog sort of ruled the roost, and this big dog had.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: This I had this thing going on.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we did a constellation where I put in someone to represent him, someone to represent his canine mother and father.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um one person to represent his litermates, so um his family of origin.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, and that helped.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: That was how that kind of helped calm him down a bit.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then I put in the perpetrators.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're part of his system.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they were there in the earliest parts of his life.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: So they were had a big part in his system.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then the also the ones who rescued him.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's those.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually calmed him right down as well.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then then the person who was representing had this had this thing where like there's just too much.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So he had five acres of land that he could roam free on, but he it was too much.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: For him, there was no boundary, and he was just on high alert all the time.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um the owner, we were talking about, you know, bringing a fence in, fencing it in so that, um, even if it's an electric fence, to bring it in so that he only has a small area.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And just in that conversation of bringing in the boundaries, wow, the representative just like was really relaxed and things started to move and evolve.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there were a few other things that happened, I can't quite remember, but the next day I got a message from the owner.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: She said, I don't know if it's just my imagination, but by the time I got home, the dog was so relaxed.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: When I came home, he was he was just seemed like a different dog, you know.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like obviously animals don't have that the bias or anything like that that they've got to work through.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then she took the dog out to a very busy area where there were like jet skis and kids on scooters and stuff like that.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the dog was really calm.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't sort of like pulling on the lead and lunging, and and she had people coming up to her and saying, Oh, what a beautiful dog.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Can I pet your dog?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: She said that had never ever happened before.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's huge.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oscillated a dog, and I didn't even know that I could do that sort of thing.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've also done other animals as well, um, since then.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was another one.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't my constellation, it was one that I was a witness of.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: A woman who had been feeling suicidal all of her life.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: She'd and she'd attempted many times, and just would was really overwhelming for her.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And what it turned out was that her mother had been pregnant with her on the boat from Holland to New Zealand, and but her mother's heart was still in Holland, her first true love.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she'd been jilted at the altar.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the mother had had married someone who came along and got on a boat and never went back to Holland.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: So and after that there was this sense of freedom.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she said for the first time, I don't have that weight.
• 33:01
  unknown: Wow.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: You don't get goosebumps when you say that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: The weight the the grief and that sense of not wanting to be here.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Which was her mother's.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: But she had taken it on.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Loyalty, you know.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: As we Yeah, I mean that is a really condensed version of what had happened, but I just remembered that one stuck with me, really stuck with me.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: So beautiful.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: For me, uh having had so much um physical sexual trauma that my body had a lot of things going on over the years in the feminine ways, and did a constellation around my uterus and the excessive bleeding that I was doing and and found this need to be connected.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it was referring to the mother.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it and I was I remember feeling a little bit confused at the time, not uh fully understanding this, because it didn't feel like my mother.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my representative was just like lying flat down on Mother Earth.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: It makes sense to me now.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: So in in New Zealand and Atara, when we the Fenoa is the is the land of where you come from, and the the Fenoa is also the name for the placenta.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the connection there.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So over the years since that happened, that was about six years ago.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I do a lot of practicing just lying on the grass, or even lying on the floor and going beyond the floor and you know, really connecting down into the womb of the mother.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's so beautiful.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the matching of the constellations that sometimes it does take a little bit to drop in, right?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you go, Oh my god, that's what that was.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now it makes sense.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: It did take a little while, and that one I kind of went away going, Oh, that was beautiful.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what happened, but it was beautiful.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Felt good.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then over the years, and because for about three years there were just things dropping in, and I go, Oh, that's what that meant.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Tracy, it's been an absolute delight chatting with you.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe we might even need a part two.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: We've just scratched the surface.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have just scratched the surface.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there's I really don't mind sharing my story because I know that it's going to help someone, you know, someone will listen to this and um and maybe it will invite them to find a way to heal themselves or or initiate their own the beginning of the healing journey as well.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and know that the shame, there's no shame in being able to look at this and heal.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that healing is possible, right?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anything is possible.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Antonia, Antonia, for this op opportunity to Yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I reckon part two, maybe.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: See what happens, eh?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, no, we've got it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Go rolling into a series.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Diving deep.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Diving deep with Tracy.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much, Tracy.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: And looking forward to part two.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Blessings.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: You'll find me at tracy.cartwright.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's tracy with no e.cartwright.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And or head over to my website, tracycartwright.co.nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.