Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 324 - The Truly Show

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 324 - The Truly Show · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he's up to. It's picking me
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: like chicken, shocking me like corn, strowing me like an ice.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't do sit ups, I don't do
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: chill ups.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: I don't do nothing but get up through them guts
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: with my jahns on.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Bro, the hell did you talk about it then? Anybody?
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: I'm letting all y'all know my exercise is v your thighs.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Bro. Believe that.
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: Bro, Yes, nay chi hut bena be that's gonna.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Mean, n't mean job.
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna mean they show me, show me, and that
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: number mean they show me me.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: June sellom show kill we.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: And here we go. Twenty twenty five.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Welcome in, Welcome in, Happy new year everybody. I think
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: we said right, but to those who couldn't join us,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Happy new year. Best wishes to all of our followers
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: in this new year. Hope all your wishes and dreams
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: come true in this new year. And did you have
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: to go rent a steam cleaner? See you're still alive,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: which is a good thing.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, barely so it's funny story. Twenty twenty five didn't
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: get started off the best for me. I'm setting up
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you know my little setup here in the basement, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I usually have my Silk City to my back left.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's the right if you're looking at the screen.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: And I knocked over a bottle and it broke on
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the bottom shelf, the woodshelf and stained this whole white
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: carpet about five minutes before we were going on our
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: members only. So my girlfriend, here's the cursing what happened.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: And I have to go, you know what I mean,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I can't sit there and clean up. And she had
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: to clean up while we were doing members only, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: she was not happy.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: So did she get it all? I mean, can you tell.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: She got like ninety percent of it?
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, m but I guess that will suffice, I guess.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: And it was the hot syrup flavor as well.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Oh so it was like dark red.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm a little sticky too. But she did a
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: good job. And I guess that's a good time to say, uh,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: check out Silk City Hot Sauce.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, and if you too would like to stay in
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: your carpets if you're as clumsy as Joe, head over
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: to Silk City. Used the code Guman for twenty percent
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: off of your entire order at checkout you won't regret it.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Of course, it was not their faults, sir.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it could have happened to anything
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: situated behind you.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: So the consequences I no longer have Silk City in
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: my lower left.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Sure m hm. Well, hopefully you'll get re upped soon, sir.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: So let's welcome everybody into the show. We've got Trey
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: in the house, Scott is in the house, Tiny Dancers
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: in the house, Sally is in the house. Alpha sixty six,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Big Mic is in the house. Let's see. Jack is
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: in the house, Paul is in the house, Bungles in
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: the house, Moose Heaven is in the house. Let's see
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: be bad Josh, what's up? Buddy is in the house here,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Hello Colleen, welcome back. We missed you. And let's see.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I think that's it for now. But anyway, folks, welcome in,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome in, welcome in. So this week we got a
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: pretty good show for you, guys. I think you're gonna
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: dig it real quick. Off the bat Joe. For those
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: who did not uh, who did not hear, Let's see
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I did not hear Wednesday night, there's a travesty going
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: on out there.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Which one.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Well, it has to do if I can find the
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: damn thing. Let's see if I still have it on
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: my computer.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: We are as glad you are feeling better at Colleen.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, well, I don't know where my pictures went.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: But anyway, if you are on social media at all,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Facebook at all, you know, if you're a fan of
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: this show, you definitely listen to Quick Hits, and you
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: definitely listen to The Dallas Action. There is a travesty
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: going on out there involving the theft of intellectual property
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: belonging to the Dallas Action and Doug Campbell. Robert K. Tannenbaum,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: who I believe was the head counsel for the HSCA
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: investigation and author of several several true crime nonfiction and
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: fiction books in the years since. If you go to Amazon,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: you can find a Google Robert K. Tannenbaum or search
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: for Robert K. Tannenbaum or The Dallas Action. He apparently
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: is slated to book in April of twenty twenty five,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: entitled The Dallas Action. Kind of ironic, you know, a
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: simple Google search could have negated all but David. It
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: seems that they finally have answered the barrage of emails
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: sent their way at Skyhorse Publishing, but we're not going
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: to get into that right now. And hopefully they do
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: the right thing, Joe. So they ever villaged, ever vigilant, folks,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: if you have been helping now on co medians spread
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: the awareness.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope they do the right thing as well.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, this small JFK assassinations genre, you know, yeah, the
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: name The Dallas Action is associated with an intellectual property.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: That podcast has been around for almost eleven years now,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: and for them to not do their due diligence and
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: name a book about the JFK assassination of the same name,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: it's just it's it's just it is lazy. It is
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: lazy to the very least.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the very least.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: So stay on them and stay tuned. You can go
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: follow the Dallas Action on Facebook for all updates. Doug
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: is on it.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm sure we'll be talked about next quick
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: hits as well.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: You think we might touch on it, we'll see, all right,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: So folks, let's get into this Texas School Book Depository, right,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: you know that famous building where three shots allegedly rang
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: out from there on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: But what I wanted to talk about is a couple
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: of things, including the building itself, the history behind the building,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: the history of those involved in running the building, because
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: as we touched on Wednesday night, you know, there's there's
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: a couple of things that don't quite make sense when
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: it comes to Lee Oswall's employment at this building. We
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: were discussing an article written by Johnny Cairns and his
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Tight Sexy jeens on Wednesday night, and you know, I
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: remember reading somewhere Joe that you know, of course, Oswald
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: was hired oner about October fifteenth, sixteenth, I believe it's
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: the fifteenth, and he started on the sixteenth of October, yep.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: And I believe Fraser had only been there a week
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: or two at that point.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: And I think Fraser started September fifth, around like a
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: month before, is what I was.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I was reading today, Yeah, but that there had been
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: the layoffs after the summer was over, because of course
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: they are a school book textbook distributor, right so there
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: normally you would think that their busiest season would be
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: right before school starts, Okay, in August is yeah, August, September, September,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe July, if people were really on the ball,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: you know, and that after that season was over, there
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: were three African American h employees who were laid off
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: in August early September. So it's odd to me, Joe,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: that Fraser would be hired right a week basically a
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: week or two after Labor Day, yeah, which back then
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: is generally when the schools would go back. You know,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: you think it wouldn't be a busy time to need
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: people at the Texas school book Depository, you know. Yeah, so,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: uh oh, that's interesting. Mark Grewber is Robert K. Tannenbaum's
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: cousin Kruber It eh uh, well, I mean make a
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: lot of sense if true.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, he is from New York and tanner
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Baum is from New York too. Because I'm members only,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I told a funny story of a bumble date as
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I look to see if my girlfriend's listening. I went
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: on a bumble date like three years ago, and uh
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: uh the girl was with him, her friend and her mom.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Her stepdad was tanabaum, so she was not cute. But
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I was like, should I maybe switch girls to get
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: some docks? But uh, just a random like super the team, Joe, Hey,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I would have I would have.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, girl, how you do.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Where your docs at?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I got some hot sauce for you, baby. But back
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: to the school book depository. Yeah, so we got into
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: some things that didn't quite make sense when it comes
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: to the fact that they were letting people off and
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, they're hiring again in September
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: in October because we were thinking, Okay, the next busy
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: season would probably be in December, you know, before the
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: new semester, you know, if you will start that makes sense. Yeah,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: so why are they hiring people it's Eclober Because it
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: wasn't like they didn't have any order pullers, right, I
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: mean they had what six people on this floor lane crew?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I mean was this project that important that they needed
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: to hire temporary workers to cover.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: I'm not sure.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I think the project only started a few days before,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: before the twenty second And at.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: That point it's odd to me too, like, okay, you're
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: you're you're a book distributor business, and you're gonna make
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: your employees lay plywood on the floor of a multi
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: story building that it makes no sense to me whatsoever, Like,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you know, how did they form this crew? You know, hey,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: do is anybody know how to use a saw or
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: hammer nail? Okay, you're on, You're on, You're on. You're
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: not you're gonna be pulling orders. You're a dumb ass.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: You can't read, you know.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: No, Yeah, I think love Lady was on it. Shelley
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: was kind of like the supervisor of it, right in
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: a sense. I don't truly was kind of above him,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: but he was kind of overseeing that in a sense.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because true or Shelley was the head of the
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: miscellaneous department of this book Depository right on this twenty
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: second of November. Okay, there were nin teen warehousemen employed
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: by the Texas School Book Depository, four of whom stayed
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: at the old warehouse Okay, over what we call the
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: State Building where Fraser allegedly parked his car that morning.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Remaining fifteen who worked at four eleven Elm Street, are
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: listed below, in the order in which they appear on
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the time charts. Bill Shelley, Jack Doherty, Troy West, James Jarmin,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Eddie Piper, Harold Norman, Billy Lovelady, Frankie Kaiser, Carl Jones,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Roy Lewis, Danny Arsay, Bonnie Ray, Williams, Wesley Fraser, Charles Gibbons,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: and Lee Oswald. Now that's a lot of bodies to
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: be running around a multi story building pulling orders. I mean,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I think that sounds like a little bit of overkill.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: It sounds chaotic, is what it sounds like. Right.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Again, why they have these guys, you know, doing
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: construction in their warehouse building now we know why, allegedly
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: is because the building itself and interestingly enough, Joe which
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: he probably will touch on, and the truly hit the
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: truly thing is it truly had been with the School
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: of Depository as an entity since the mid thirties. I
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: think it was nineteen thirty.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Four, thirty four, almost thirty years.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and at one point he had been in
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the position I think he started from the floor up. Man,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: he was an order poler, and then they made him
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a manager of the miscellaneous division. It was miscellaneous, right,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: and then finally you know, the director or the president
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: or whatever he was there at the you know, I
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: believe BSD of the TSBD.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a good way to put it, actually, Yes, So.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: The history of the School Book Depository is definitely suspect
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: as hell. In nineteen sixty three was definitely a year
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: of transition for the building at four eleven Elm Street.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: So according to the telephone and the city directories of
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one, sixty two and sixty three. Uh, these
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: are the differences. Okay. Now, the Sexton Company, who had
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: been there before, Okay, I believe they were a grocery
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: distributor and many of their machine is housed in the building,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: had stained the floor so bad that when these cartons
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: of books were laid on this old floor, its old
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: hardwood plank floor, that the grease would seep out of
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the floors up into the cartons of books and damage
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the books. This is why they were allegedly replacing the floor.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oil stains is what I read.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Or it was described as sounds like a shithole. Okay, yeah, And.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I think they did the fifth floor first in the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: week or two before and then went up to the
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: sixth floor.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Right. So in nineteen sixty one in the city directory,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the Sexton Company is still housed at four eleven Elm
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Street and the school book depository is listed at five
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: oh one Elm Street, which is the Dow Text building. Okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two, the Sexton Company has no listing at all,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: and the school Book Depository is listed at ELM at Houston,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: very vaguely without a specific address, And in nineteen sixty three,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: the Sexton Company is now located at six point fifty
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Regal Row in Dallas, and the school Book Depository is
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: listed at four leven Elm Street. Okay, by the time
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: that the Telephone Directory had been published in nineteen sixty three,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: both companies had listed their new addresses, and this is
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: by May of sixty three. This does not necessarily mean
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: that they completed their relocations by the month of May,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: but both companies could very well have been in the
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: final stages of moving when the deadline for the Telephone
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Directory came up. They would obviously want their new addresses
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: in the directory, even though they would perhaps be a
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: brief period of time where the old addresses were still
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: applicable and truly statement to the FBI, the Depository did
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: not actually start moving into that building until the summer
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: of sixty three. Okay, so you've got to imagine, all right,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: the Sexton Company is out, the school Book Depository is in.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: The first thing they had to do is figure out
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: and create nice, decent offices in the building, right, This
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: takes time, This takes construction, unless they were just simply
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: using what office space had been in the building previously,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: but I don't think that's the case. And then, of
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: course in the summer, they're both moving in and immediately
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: having to fill orders, so they I guess they couldn't
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: really do things the way that they wanted to. Let's see,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: so with the acquisition of the new building, the company
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: had almost doubled the size of its operations. It had
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: already had one warehouse at nineteen seventeen North Houston Street,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: which was bought in nineteen fifty. Often referred to as
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: the State Building, it was a four story white stucco
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: building which had the words Texas school Book Depository Warehouse
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: printed on it, and it was only a few blocks
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: north of the Elm Street Warehouse. This is of course,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: where Buel Fraser famously parked that morning allegedly and Saully
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Oswald walk with the package up under his tucked up
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: under his elbow armpit and all that jazz, you know. So,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: let's see. Throughout the nineteen fifties and early sixties, the
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Houston Street Warehouse and the Dow Tech Office represented the
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: total extent of the company's real estate POSSESSI. So basically,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: in the Dow Texts this was not where they housed books.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: This was merely where the offices were. They were still
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: using the warehouse on Houston Street, but apparently they had
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: a set of offices of the book companies and the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: BSDs of the TSBD in the Dow text building okay,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: previous to this, until they conglomerated all into one building
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: in the summer of nineteen sixty three.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Let's see.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Around this time, though the expansion was not just limited
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: to its property holdings, the company also made an enormous
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: increase in its inventory. Judging by the photographs taking inside
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: the m Street building, every usable storage area was filled
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: to overflowing tall stacks of by boxes. This massive increase
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: in school books from so many different publishers and such
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: a short time period must have required an exceptional amount
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: of planning to coordinate and schedule the transportation of all
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: these educational materials. Let's see, all this stockpiling was taking
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: place at a time when the seasonal demand for textbooks
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: was just starting to fall off. Most of the boxes
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: seen in the post assassination pictures would have had to
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: wait until the next school year before there would be
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: a need to open them. What And that's kind of
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: what we were touching on, you know before, Joe, when
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: we were talking about these seasonal need for books.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you don't think you'd get big book
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: orders mid semester unless you know, a classroom ran out
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: of books or I don't see that being a common occurrence.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The government exhibits do not include paychecks from the
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: book depository for the simple reason the company had adopted
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: the curious practice of paying Oswald and his fellow employees
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: of the warehouse in cash. On November twenty seventh, Vice
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: President Ocus Campbell gave the FBI the following information. Lee
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald, while employed by the Texas School Book Depository
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: from October sixteenth to November twenty second, was paid semi
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: monthly in cash. He received two payments of one hundred
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: and four dollars and forty one cents each on October
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: thirty first, nineteen sixty three, and November fifteenth, nineteen sixty three.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: In addition, he now has paid due to him of
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: forty three dollars and thirty seven cents, which is unclaimed
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: and eventually given to Marino. According to Roy Trully's secretary,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: only the warehouse employees received their earnings in cash. This
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: meant to the all office workers were given standard payroll checks.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: So does that sound a little fishy to you, Joe.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Well, wasn't he a temporary worker? Isn't that what he
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: was classified as? So does that mean he was paid
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: differently than the check as opposed to cash?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Now, it was all warehouse workers, like, including the long
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: timers who'd been there a while, like Billy Lovelady, being
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: paid bi weekly in cash.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not sure the tax code in Dallas
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: and sixty three, but yeah, that or the norms of
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: of how kind of blue collar workers were paid. But
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: that would seem suss compared to just a check.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: What do you mean I'm mirrored in the background?
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Do you mean my.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: You look fine and dandy to me, sir.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Who knows? So the warehouse men did not have to
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: sign any pay receipts either, which for tax purposes is
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: but anyway, two pay receipts undated and signed by Oswald
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: were reproduced in the exhibits of the House Select Committee
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: on Assassinations. They showed that during a semi monthly pay period,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Oswald made one hundred and eight dollars and thirty four cents,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: with three dollars and ninety three cents deducted for Social
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Security taxes. The main problem with these receipts is doctor
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Jerry Rose has pointed out, is that the signatures are
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: not in Oswald's authenticated style of handwriting. This fact, combined
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: with Campbell's assertion that the company did not use pay
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: receipts as an indication that these two slips of paper
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: did not come from a legitimate source, and we're probably forged.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: No other documented evidence of how much Oswald made it
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: the book depository isn't there to exist other than the
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: statements made by company managers to government investigators. And as
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: as you know, folks, we don't have Oswald's tax records yet.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, there's that. Yeah, And there's a
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: lot of oddities when it comes to a lot of
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: different things in the school book depository, and we're going
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: to be talking about quite a few of them here today.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: So what I wanted to talk about, so let's get
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: into some of these workers in the schoolitory. And I
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: looked at a few of them, not all of them,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of course, because I've done a lot of deep dives
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: on a lot of these characters over the years. But
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: one I have not done a deep dive on before
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: is Danny Arsey. So this, folks, is Danny r Say, right,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: good looking young kid of Latino heritage, Joe yep. Almost
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: as handsome as you Joe Burrell. Almost almost. But there
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: is some interesting photos. Here's another photo of Danny Arsay
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: after he was arrested at the school book Depository next
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: to a very high looking Bonnie Ray Williams in the
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: back seat of a cop car. Actually, and here's a
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: photo of him getting in the car surrounded by police
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: in front of the school book Depository as he is
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: shoving Bonnie Ray Williams violently into the back of the
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: cop car as he wearing his black trench coat, which
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: obviously means Joe that he was a human spy, right
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: quite obviously, Yes, yes, now I'm joking, folks. Don't don't
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: calm down now when it comes to Danny Arsay and
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: what he was. Now, this is the photo, Joe where
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: you see the fat guy leaning against a tree in
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: the background. Yeah, yeah, that uh, this has no idea.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: This is allegedly the red arrow pointing to the alleged
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: position of where Danny r Say, according to him, was
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: standing during the presidential motorcade. He's standing right behind Cowboy Man,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: the sweet Mexican decked out in a cowboy hat and
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: all light outfit and cowboy boots that is seen in
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: several of the photos and films from that day. Now
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: here's some interesting things. And this comes from the work
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: of James Richards and and well, this photo here comes
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: from our friend Bart Camp, who determined his position based
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: on where he said he was. Okay, Now, James Richards
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: found some interesting things about Danny Arsay, or he supposed
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: some interesting things. Don't know how accurate this is, but
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: we can discuss. This is Danny Arsay on the right
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: in the back of the cop car after he was arrested. Okay.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: And this is a man positioned in front of the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Dow Text building at the time of the assassination. And
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: that's still is, I believe, taken from the alten six
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: photograph and verily zoomed in on. Okay. Now, you can't
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: really tell a lot from this, I mean, just looking
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: at it, I'm assuming just from looking at the hairline
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: and the dark eyes right, and of course he was
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: wearing a dark black trench coat, which this guy seems
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: to be wearing too. Danny rs blatantly said that he
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: was standing out in front of the school book depository, right,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: but this guy is across Houston Street in front of
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: the DAL Text building, which doesn't make sense if it's
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the same guy, if it's our se. Now another interest
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: photo Joe compilation is this one say hello to some
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: intend personnel training it no name key Okay. In the
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: upper right corner, we have Danny Arsay on the left
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: in his sweet black trench coat and a no named,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: no name key participant on the right that looks strikingly
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: similar to the guy on the left, the big guy
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: in the middle, you know, second standing second behind the
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: front guy, the guy in front.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: And it looks like the guy in front of the
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: DAL tex as well more than rse.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, and a fan of the car being it
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: looks to be. And now there's also another Dally Plaza spectator. Okay,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure where he was positioned in the bottom
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: right corner, and I don't know what photo or film
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: that is from, but he highly resembles another Latino gentleman,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: the third guy from front to back on the left,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: and also a no name key participant anti Castro Cuban exile.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Hey, Rob, Yes, do you notice that that piece of
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: hair right in the middle of the forehead that seems
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: to come down a little bit?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, the Superman curve, Yes, yeah, the.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Dally Plauza spectator on the bottom looks like he has that.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: And I don't know, just a random observation I'm just
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: making here.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean these are you know. Of course, this
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: is proof of nothing. This is just mere supposition, of course.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting because you know, we believe that various
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: other interpen personnel we're involved, you know, on the ground
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: that day, So very interesting stuff. Yeah, and I believe
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: did we see this one already? Yes? Yeah, I thought
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: I had another one, but it must have not loaded.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: But that's okay, that's okay.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: M hmm.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: All right, So let's get into mister Danny R Say,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: shall we? Danny Are say.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not very clear on his background, so I am.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Well, he's an interesting character, for sure, and interestingly enough,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: he was hired around the same time as Bulle Frasier
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of September, after they had already laid
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: off three black guys. Okay, wow, Now he made a statement,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I believe it will work from front to back. Here
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: to the House Select Committee on Assassinations on April thirteenth
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight, to investigator Clarence Day, and this
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: is what he said. The incident surrounding the elevator situation
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: is not very clear. What I recall is the following
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: before lunch period, we went down on the East end elevator.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: At the time, Lee Oswald asked to ride with us.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: We said fuck you and seed the elevator down. He
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: came down in the elevator with us. Oh no, I'm sorry. Okay,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: So he came down the elevator with us, and we
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: let him off on the fourth or fifth floor, I
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: can't remember. And that is the end of his HCA.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: You know, very peculiar document. I think you.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Is this it?
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think I have it, but anyway, it
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: was a very peculiar document I ran across there. Next
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: up is a handwritten statement given by Danny Arsa after
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: he was arrested and taken down to police headquarters on
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. And this one goes
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: into quite a bit more detail. And you have to
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: imagine this is right after the assass the Nation Shoe.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Within a couple hours they arrested him Bonnie Ray Williams,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Jack Doherty, and Bill Shelley and took him all down
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: to the station.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: M hm. And you know what we say about early statements.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, pay attention. I, Danny Garcia ars make the following
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: a voluntarily statement to Gaston Thompson and Robert Lish, whom
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I know are special agents of the Federal Bureau of
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Investigation otherwise known as the FB. I jo okay, this
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: statement is given freely, despite me being in custody on
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: suspicion of murder of the president. And I realize I
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: don't have to make any statement, but I I was
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: born at Dallas, Texas, September fifty, fourteenth, nineteen and forty five.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I finished one year of high school Sir. On or
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: about September sixth, nineteen sixty three, I started to work
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: for Texas School Book Depository located on Houston Street, Dallas.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: This being the warehouse where I'm employed as an order filler.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Occasionally I am required to work at the main building
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: on four eleven Elm Street. So Arsay was mainly a
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: worker over at the State Building, Okay, not at four
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: eleven Elm Street, but he was at four eleven Elm
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Street on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three as part
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: of the floor lane crew. He says, I was at
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: my place of employment at four eleven Elm Street today Friday,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, at eight o'clock am,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Sharp Joe. He was not late from eight am until
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: about ten am. I was working on the sixth floor
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: of the building. At around ten am, along with other employees,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: we went to the first floor for a break. This
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: was for about ten minutes and then I returned to
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: my work on the sixth floor, where I remained until
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: about eleven fifty am, when I, along with other employees,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: went down to the first floor and then outside the
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: building where we expected the President of the United States
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: to pass in an automobile with others. Bill Shelley, a
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: supervisor of the Texas Schoolook Depository, had told me the
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: President's party was to pass by the building. As I
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: stood on a corner across the street from four eleven
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Elm Street, I observed a large automobile pass the President
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: of the United States and his wife seated on his left,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: being on the back seat. The President's automobile had passed
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: and was a short way down Elm Street towards the
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: underpass when I heard something like a gun shot, and
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: then a second gun shot, and then a third shot
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: close together. When this happened, everybody around began shouting and running,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: saying the President had been shot. I saw one lady crying,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: and she said, it is terrible that the president had
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: been shot. Within a few minutes after the above happened,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I went back into the building where I work. About
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: about one month ago, I saw at the Texas school
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Book Depository a man who today I come to know
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: is Lee Oswald. This man was, I believe, employed as
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: an order filler, and in this capacity worked on all
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: the floors of the building. I never, during my employment
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: came to know Lee Oswald closely, and never associated with him,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: as did anybody else admit to either.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: And of course he kept to himself for the most
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: part anyway, So no one's going to go out of
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: their way to say I was bff's with Lee.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, you think him being a Latino right,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: and Cuban exile, possibly of Cuban heritage. I mean he
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: was born in Dallas, sure, but he could have had
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: you know, Cuban heritage or Mexican heritage is not clear.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: That possibly Lee Oswald would have said, hey, man, you
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: know you're part of the party, man.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, for sure, just like the marine
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: buddy of his that was Hispanic that went on leave
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: when Castro, you know, did some big offensive in Cuba.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: He came back and he goes, well, well were you
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: helping Castro? And he made a joke. I mean, so
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: not far fetched for sure at all.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: You want to join my club Cuba Committee. I did
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: observing around him around the building, at his work and
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: during the breaks we had during our work day today.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I first saw Lee Oswald when I came to work,
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: this on the first floor. This was at about eight o'clock.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: I next saw him up on the sixth floor, this
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: being around eleven o'clock today, shortly before lunchtime. He was
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: by himself with a piece of paper in his hand.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I had nothing to say to him, but some of
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: the other people, male employees, other male employees teased him
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: and told him that he ought to go get a
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: damn haircut. Lee Oswald just laughed at this remark, man,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: white boy, look at you, man, you need to get
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: a haircut. Man looking a little shaggy, homie shit. I
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: last saw Lee Oswald at the Texas school Book Depository
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: ATO on four eleven Elm Street, Dallas, Texas, at approximately
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: eleven fifty am, this being on the fifth floor near
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the elevators. I have read the above handwritten statement consisting
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: of this and three other pages. It is true and
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: correct to the best of my knowledge. Danny garcia arse
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: so that is his first day statement, folksy. Now, there
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: was a little bit of fukery when it comes to
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: where these elevators were when Truly and Marion Baker came in,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I believe and these statements. Truly claims that at least
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: one of the elevators was stuck on the fifth floor.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: He's not sure where the other one was. And they
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: claimed that when they came down stairs for lunch right
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: that they dropped Lee off at the fifth floor, which
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: is odd, okay, considering that this is where Harold Norman,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Junior Jarman and Bonnie Ray Williams would be watching the
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: presidential motorcade pass. We know this because they were captured
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: on film hanging out the windows of the fifth floor,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: you know, pretty much right under the sniper's nest. The
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: odd thing about that is if Lee oswald got off
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: on the fifth floor but nobody saw him, then where
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: did he go from there? Right? Because Bonnie Ray Williams
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: had went down with the guys originally at eleven fifty
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: and apparently he'd went back up to the sixth floor,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: where he proceeded to eat his chicken sandwich, smoke a
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: cigarette one of his viceroys, and drink a doctor pepper. Right, So,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: if Bonnie Ray is on the sixth floor until about
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: twelve fifteen to twelve twenty five, and you have the
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: other black guys on the fifth floor, where is Lee
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Oswalden's mix and why does nobody see him? Another oddity
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: is that another person puts themselves on the fifth floor. Okay,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: we'll get there, I promise, yeah.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: And also Rob the mortarcade was a little late, of course,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: and so if Bonnie or if Bonnie Ray Williams is
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: up there at eleven fifteen to eleven twenty or twenty five.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I've doesn't leave much time for Lee to kind of
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: set up a sniper's nest. Uh if you think this,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: you know, was a well planned thing by him, So yes,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: fookery indeed.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Man, this stupid gimbals pissing me off. Mhm, come on, man,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: come on man. Okay, there we go. All right, don't
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: you move, mister Kimball. Okay, So let's go back to
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: the pertinent point of this. Let me show you guys
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: this real quick before we get too deep into this.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Hold on, that's not it? Is this it? Yes? Carolyn
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Arnold on November twenty sixth, Texas school Book Depository of
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Secretary stated she was in her office on the second
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: floor of the building on November twenty second and left
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: the office between twelve and twelve fifteen to go downstairs
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: and stand in front of the building to watch the
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: presidential motorcade. As she was standing in front of the building,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: she stated she thought she caught a fleeting glimpse of
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald standing in the hallway or vestibule as
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: we called it, between the front door and the double
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: doors leading into the warehouse located on the first floor.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: She could not be sure that this was Oswald, but
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: says she felt it was and believed the time to
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: be a few minutes before twelve fifteen pm. So this
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: right here is probably the best eye witness account. We're
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: putting Oswald somewhere other than the sixth floor at really
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: close to the time of the shots. Now, also at
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: this time, you have to imagine the Bonnie Mary Williams
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: is still up on the sixth floor, eating his chicken sandwich,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: drinking his Doctor pepper and smoking a cigarette before going
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: down to the fifth floor. So if Oswald, like he said,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: he was down on the first floor watching the presidential motorcade,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: and we have a witness, the secretary of the school
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Bok depository, seeing him at twelve fifteen or close to it,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: possibly a little after it, because she stated that sometime
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: between twelve and twelve fifteen she went downstairs. Okay, so
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: that's very interesting. If you believed the official story that
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: at some point after this encounter, say twelve twenty twenty
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: five thirty, then Lee Oswald had to make his way
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: up to the sixth floor, Bonnie Ray had to wake
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: his way down to the fifth floor, and Jack Doherty
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: had to make his way to the fifth floor, all
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: without any of these guys seeing each other allegedly. So
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: let's get into Jack Doherty a little bit. He states
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: there were six of us working on the sixth floor.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: The others were Bill Lovelady, Bill Shelley, Danny Orsay, Bonnie
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Ray Williams, and Charles Gibbons. I worked until noon on
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: the sixth floor and then went down to the first
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: floor and I ate my lunch and I went back
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: to work. At twelve forty five. I had already gone
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: back to work and I gone down on the fifth
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: floor to get some stock when I heard a shot.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: I'm here, okay, because you know the shots happened around
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: twelve thirty one pm. He states that he went back
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: to work at twelve forty five and then went down
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: to the fifth floor and heard the shots, but irregardless
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: of the time. He states that he was on the
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: fifth floor when he heard what sounded like a shot.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: He says it sounded like it was coming from inside
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: the building somewhere, but he couldn't tell from where. He
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: then says he went down to the first floor and
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: asked a man named Eddie Piper if he had heard anything,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: and he said yes, that he had heard three shots.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I then went back to the sixth floor. I did
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: not see anyone on the floor except the people I named. Okay,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: so he's saying, after the shots, he went from the
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: fifth floor to the first floor, talked to Eddie Piper,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: who was like the building maintenance supervisor, janitor, whatever you
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: want to call them, watchman, seen various titles. This guy
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: is held custodian, talks to him, and then he says
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: he goes back up to the sixth floor and sees
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: the people that he was working with, which makes no
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: sense whatsoever, because none of the floor laying crew ever
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: went back to work after lunch. But okay, he says,
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: there was another employee that's named Lee Oswald that I
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: saw on the sixth floor. He works all over the building,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: but I saw him on the sixth floor shortly before noon,
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: just like all the other people were stating about eleven
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: fifty when they all rode down. Okay. One interview by
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: agents Doherty or on interview by agents Doherty did not
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: relate his activities as set out above after he heard
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: the shots, But it is noted that during the interview
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: with Doherty, his father R. C. Doherty, was president, and
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: advised his son had received a medical discharge from the
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: army and indicated his son had a considerable difficulty in
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: coordinating his mental facilities with his speech, even though Joe, apparently,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: you know this guy can speak. He has beautiful handwriting.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: By the way, it's not you would not associate it
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: with a mentally handicapped person. Okay, so that's a little
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: odd says. A lead will be assigned to have Doherty
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: reinterviewed to clarify the above statements in an effort to
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: determine if he did in fact visit the sixth floor
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: immediately after he heard the shots fired. If so, what
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: did he see prior to conducting this interview. The agent
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: should review page three fifty six of the report, the
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Jamberling Report, bearing in mind the information furnished by Doherty
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: to the Dallas PD as quoted above. Now, the next
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: interesting part of this is the interview with Danny Garcia
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Arsey Okay. As set out in Secret Service Report. Arseay
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: really substantially this same information as furnished during interview by
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: the agent of this office, but in addition, he relates
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: the names of the persons that he worked with during
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: the morning of eleven, twenty two, sixty three, and he
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: further states that quote, the only person I saw was
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: a real old man, and he had on an old
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: brown suit and a western style hat. I saw this
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: man leave the building and drive off in an old
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: black Buick. Now bear in mind, okay, ARSEI was born
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: in forty five, so in nineteen sixty three, he would
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: have been seventeen or eighteen years old. So when he
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: says people are old, Okay, you have to remember this
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: is coming from a very young man. Yeah.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: Somebody in their thirties or forties would have been old
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: to him. Okay. Uh, this man was not carrying anything
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: in his hands when I saw him exit the building.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: This man was in the building after lunch. Okay. That's
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: a very key statement. Okay. That means that after the
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: guys had left the sixth floor from working on the
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: floor and all that jazz and came down for lunch,
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: that is when Arsey saw this guy in the building.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: This man left in the car before the president was shot,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: not after, So that's a very key point as well.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: I did not see any other people in the building
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: that shouldn't have been there. But this old man, other
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: than the people I name that work there, Danny Garcia
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: RSA will be reinterviewed with additional other investigation conducted consistent
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: with information developed to identify the quote real old man
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: in the brown suit referred to by RSA above. Well,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: thereafter interview the old man referred to to determine the
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: nature of his business in the school book depository immediately
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: before the president was shot. So that's interesting. Yeah, very
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: So let's jump back over to Jack Doherty and we're
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: gonna hear his statement handwritten statement given on eleven, twenty
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: two sixty three. Okay, I Jack Edwin Doherty make the
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: following free and voluntary statement despite being held under arrest
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: at the dull police officers two agents blah blah blah
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: and blah blah blah.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: They love to point that out.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Huh yeah, and making this statement freely and voluntarily with
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: no pressure at off as the cops are as. I'm
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: sitting here in handcuffs and you know I have twenty
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: cops around me, he says. I'm employed by the school
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Book Depository at four eleven Elm Street, Dallas, Texas as
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: an order filler and reside at eighteen twenty seven South
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: Marcella Street, Dallas, Texas. I started to work today at
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: seven a m o clock.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, didn't he have a key or something and open
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: up or something like that, because he's the.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Way He would open up in the mornings and he
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: would go around walk to the building, make sure everything
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: is kosher, make sure the heat's working or whatever, the
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: air acs work, and make sure everything is all good.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: And that Eddie Piper was the guy who stayed later
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: in the evenings to do the same thing after everybody left,
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: to make sure everything's cool. Everybody's gone, and he locked
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: up right, I see, he says. I recall vaguely having
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: seen Lee Oswald, who started to work at the school
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: book Depository about three weeks ago, when he came to
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: work at about eight am today. I saw Oswald again
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: at about eleven am today and do not recall seeing
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: him at work after eleven am today. I was working
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: on the fifth floor of the building at four eleven
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Elm Street, despite three black guys not seeing me at
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: about twelve forty five or one pm, when I heard
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: a loud explosion which sounded to me like a rifle
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: shot coming from the next floor. Above me. I did
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: not see anyone running from the building and did not
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: see anyone fire the shot which I heard. So he
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: only heard one shot out of three hmm, despite it
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: being the first one. Who most people say, sounded like
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: a shitty little firecracker. But you didn't hear a second
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: and third one. It's a much louder But okay, uh,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: I have read this statement and this is true. Jack
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Edwin Doherty, bless his special part. Yes, so let's jump
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: over to another Joe Depository worker named somebody you probably
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: all heard of before, a good old fellow. Oh my
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: name of se Buell Wesley Fraser. Now this is a
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: document most people have never seen. Okay. This is the
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: Irving Police Department arrest and disposition record of Buell Wesley
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Fraser from November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. This states
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: exactly where he was arrested at. That is the Irving
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Professional Center Hospital at seventeen nineteen West Irving Boulevard, Irving, Texas,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: at five point thirty pm. Okay, original charge investigation murder
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: President USA. Arrested by Officer John McCabe, Rank Patrolman at
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: the request of the DPD SO Dallas called Irving and said, Hey,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: go find this motherfucker, arrest him and bring him back here.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: And this was at five thirty pm.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was going to ask. What time
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: was this document?
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, it says at five nineteen pm, the reporting officer
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: received a phone call from Dallas Police Homicide Detective Cus Rose.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Rose advised the reporting officer that he had information that
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: a Buell Wesley Fraser was believed to be visiting with
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: a mister David Williams in Room thirty at the Irving
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Professional Center. Detective Rose explained that he had information that
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Fraser was involved in the assassination of President Kennedy in
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Dallas eleven, twenty two sixty three. Rose requested that I
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: go to the location, determine if Fraser was there, and
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: if so, hold him in custody and advise him. So
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: at five twenty pm, the reporting officer and Captain McCarley
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: went to the Irving Professional Center and contacted Nurse Fidel
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: and confirmed that there was a visitor in room thirty
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: with mister Williams. The reported officer had Nurse Fidel go
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: into the room and ask if mister Fraser was there
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: and if so, he had a telephone called front desk,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: can he police come out and play the old bait
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: and switcherood Joe, Yeah, it seems like it, and Fraser
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: fell for it. So now we're on to part two
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: of the Irving Police report. Here Buell Wesley Fraser walked
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: out of the door like a dumb ass, and the
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: reporting officer identified himself with my badge, and then Captain
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: McCarley and the reporting officer walked Fraser down the hall
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: short ways and into a doorway where we searched him
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: up against the wall and had him produce his ID
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: which showed that he was indeed Buell Wesley Fraser a
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: five point thirty five PM. Captain McCarley and the reporting
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: officer brought Fraser to the Irving Police Department, where we
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: contacted Gus Rose and advised him that we had Frasier
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: in custody. So within twenty minutes, Joe of getting the
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: call from Rose, these officers were on it. They went
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: over there, got his ass, brought him back to DPD.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Twenty minutes later they're calling him Rose back. We got him.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: Really quickly, Scott asked and I started, but it's relevant
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: to this. I spent hours visiting the father he hated.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Is that where he was apprehended? Did I miss that?
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah? This is he was visiting his stepfather, Yeah, right,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: whom he did not like. They did not get along.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: But apparently at some point Fraser had went home after
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: the assassination and informed his sister that he was going
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: to visit their stepfather. But why would he go talk
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: to this dude for four plus hours allegedly when he didn't.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Like the guy? Seems like you're trying to.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Either hide out or maybe get ice at that point.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: What should I do?
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go on the lamb.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Here's what you do, son. Tell him it was only
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: a two foot package and tell him it was curtain
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: rides in that motherfucker just whatever. Whatever you tell him. Buell,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: you could not fit a rifle in that package. Uh,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: But I digress. So then detective Rose and stoveall came
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: to the Irving Police Department and interviewed Fraser briefly, and
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: then both detectives and the reporting officer went to Fraser's car,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: which was still parked at the Professional Center. Nothing was
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: at the time was found in the vehicle. Rose and
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: Stoveall and the reporting officer then went to Fraser's house.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Fraser produced, on demand a three zero three caliber British
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: infield rifle from the closet in the living room and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: turned the rifle over to Detective Rose, along with the
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: clip to the rifle. At this point, Rose and Stovevall
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: then took Fraser to Dallas for questioning. The reporting officer
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: contacted Rose and he advised that Fraser had been run.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Now this is at twelve thirty am, the you know,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: the early early ass on the twenty third. The reporting
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: officer contacted Detective Rose and he advised that Fraser had
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: been run on the polygraph machine and cleared of all offenses,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: but furnished valuable information concerning Oswald. Fraser was then released
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: by the Dallas Police.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And twelve thirty is like seven hours after five thirty.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then let's see, that's not the right one.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think I did the third page to this,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: but I will continue. Two forty five pm on the
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: twenty third, Dallas homicide detectives Rose and Stoveball contacted the
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: reporting officer at the irving the Police Department and requested
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: that I accompanied them to the pain residents at twenty
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: five to fifteen West Fifth Street to execute a search
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: warrant and attempt to find any additional evidence connected with
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: the investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald. While searching through a
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: twenty four by twelve x twelve cardboard box on the
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: floor of the garage the east side, near the front door,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: the reporting officer found a dull, black sealed envelope. The
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: reporting officer called Detective Rose attention to the envelope, and
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: then Rose opened it. The envelope contained several photographs. One
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: of the photographs was a picture of Lee Harvey Oswald
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: standing with a rifle held in his hands. The handle
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: of the pistol was visible at Oswald's right hip. Also
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: visible in the picture was what appeared to be stairs
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: steps on Oswald's right excuse me, The rifle and the
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: picture appeared to be equipped with a telescopic sight. And
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: searching the box, the reporting officer also found a small,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: excuse me, blue drawstring bag which contained a sharpshooter medal.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: Numerous books were found in the suspects property in the garage.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: The books were written in Russian, so they are cherry
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: picking things out of Pain's garage to make this guy, uh,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: you know, look bad. You know, sharpshooter, metal, Russian books.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Here we go, Joe.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Yep, the same thing we saw last week when it came.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: To the right.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: So we threw all that shit in a blue suitcase
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: and took it to Dallas. At five point thirty pm
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: on the twenty third of the reporting officer returned to
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: the Pain residents with Dallas officers, at which time Michael
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: Payne returned to Dallas with the officers, and while while
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: writing with Pain and the Police Car, Pain stated that
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: he attended various John Birch Society meetings with Oswald and
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: that he felt sympathy for some of Oswald's political views. Well,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: isn't he sweet? Isn't he? Let's see, Joe, where are
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: we at here? Time? We're good? Okay, this is something
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: I wanted to show everybody and running through real quick
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: since we talked about Bob Barrett as being part of
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: the crew that were at all three crime scenes alongside
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Westbrook and what's his face?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Captain Hill?
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: Jerry Hill, Yes, Gerald Hill, Yes, yes, yes, sorry. This
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: is a curious FBI investigator or FBI documentated November twenty,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three. They were timing certain things. Okay. So
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: the distance from the front door of four eleven Elm
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Street to the bus stop at Murphy and Elm Streets
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: in Dallas was walked three times by Special Agent Lee.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: The average time was six and a half minutes. This
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: is a distance of approximately seven blocks. Now, I doubt
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: they reenacted this with the massive crowds that were lining
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: Houston and Main Streets where the President had just come down.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: Not to mention it in the midst of chaos caused
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: by the eruption of gunshots and the president.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: Being shot, that would be hard to replicate, sir, Yeah, so.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing, you know, you could probably push this six
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: and a half minutes closer to eight. You know, if
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: there was a crowd and then a bus in very
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: heavy traffic was timed in its traveling. The distance from
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: the bus stop and Murphy and Elm to the bus
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: stop at Pedrous and Elm a distance of two blocks,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: and it took the bus in this type of traffic
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: approximately four minutes. So we're at eight minutes, Joe plus
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: four minutes, that's twelve minutes. Okay. The distance from the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: bus stop at Pedroyus to the cab stand at the
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: northwest corner of Lamar in Jackson Streets was four city
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: blocks walked by a Special Agent Lee in three minutes.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: So now we're up to fifteen minutes. Special Agents Barrett
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: and Lee drove the distance from the cabs stand at
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Lamar and Jackson Streets to the five hundred block of
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: North Beckley where Oswald was dropped off, with a maximum
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: speed used in thirty five miles an hour, a distance
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: of two point six miles in seven minutes. Again, I
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: doubt that the traffic situation was the same as it
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: was on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, right after
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: the President had been shot, but we'll give them the
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt. Okay, seven minutes, so add that
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: to fifteen. We're up to twenty two, right right. It
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: is noted that at the speed of twenty five miles
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: an hour a fewer number of stop lights were encountered
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: than at the speed of thirty miles an hour. Whatever
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: that means. The distance from the five hundred block of
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: North Beckley to ten twenty six North Beckley, four tenth
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: of a mile was walked by Special Agent Bob Barrett
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: in six minutes. So now we're up to twenty eight minutes,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Joe correct. Yes, at the distance from ten to twenty
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: six North Beckley to the location of the four hundred
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: block of the East tenth Street where police officer JD.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Tipper was shot is eight tenths of a mile and
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: was walked by special Agent Bob Barrett in twelve minutes. Okay,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: so now we're up to forty minutes. Yeah, twenty eight
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: plus twelve, Yes, we are.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: That is about one ten or maybe later than that,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: but well.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: It's it's one ten. If Oswald hauled ass immediately out
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: of the building at twelve thirty, which he I think
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: the president was shot at twelve thirty one. Ye, Now
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: there is another timing deal that they did concerning various factors.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: You know, whether or not he's the elevator to go
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: down to the fourth floor and then the steps, or
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: whether he went the steps the whole way, and blah
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. But you're looking at two to
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: three minutes roughly, okay, allegedly.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: Until the second floor and count.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well we'll be general even if Oswald left the
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: school bok depository at twelve thirty five, Okay, it would
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: have taken forty minutes from that point to even get
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: to his rooming house. That would have put him get
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: into his rooming house at one fifteen PM.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which I think was the official date on Tippets thing,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: even though I think it was a few minutes earlier.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. His official time of death is one sixteen Yeah,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: but I think it was earlier too. Yeah. So given
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: that information, it's fairly easy to deduct that Oswald was
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: not the one that killed Tippet. Right. The timing just
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: does not work. It doesn't, no matter how generous you are.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, he would have to be superman to make
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: it back to his roominghouse by one o'clock. Given these
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: reenacted times by the FBI, you know, and I don't
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: think that they're that far off from being accurate times.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: So by their own timeline, you can't get Oswald from
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: here there in time to do what he was accused
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: of doing, just killing Tippet.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: So anyway, Joe, that's what I got for a couple
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: of these guys. I just thought it was interesting to
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: dive into Ursa and Doherty a little bit more In
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: the history of the School of Depository itself. As we know,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: it was owned by D. Herald Bird, member of the
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: famous Bird family B Y R D. Of course, the
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: famous Antarctic explorer Admiral Bird a a relative of D. H. Bird.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: Really, Oh, yes, high Jump? Yes, how were they related?
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: I never knew that.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know they are, Okay, fair enough, I
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: will look it up while you get into truly and
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: then I'll tell you.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I did not know that. That is very fascinating.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: And of course the operation High Jump. Maybe that's a
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: tangent will go on a members only since we're only
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: since we're already a minute, an hour and seventeen minutes in.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: But now you know, everybody knows that DH Bird is
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: the co founder, of course of the Civil Air Patrol
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: of course, which yes, is interesting as well, because as
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: you know, the rby Oswell was a part of the
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: Civil Air Patrol, as was David Ferry in New Orleans.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Rob, I don't know if you know this.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: I read that he was very close with LBJ. He was,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what very close memes does that mean?
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: Like he was a kind of billionaire at the time
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: in Texas, So of course lbj would know him, right,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: being a politician. Or was it more of a relationship.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: I think they were more friends. His book, Uh, he
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: calls him a personal friend. And the d H and
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: d H bird stands for dry hole bird because he
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: would pump so much oil about that hole he pumped
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: dry Joe saying yes, yeah. He didn't call himself a millionaire.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: He called himself an oil oil in aire. Huh, Okay.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: He was a weird, weird dude. He fancied himself a
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: big game hunter. Uh he got off on that that
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: he he Uh, there's several pictures of him in his
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: in his book. Now. Admiral Richard Y. Bird was uh,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: David Harrold Bird's cousin. H Okay. Admiral Bird named Antarctica's
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: Harold Bird Mountains after him. Apparently there's a mountain range
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: in Antarctica entitled you know, and he called them the
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Harold Bird Mountains, so he was, uh, you know close.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Another cousin, Richard's brother was Harry F. Bird, who became
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: a Democratic Party governor of Virginia and a leading Conservative
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: US senator who is actually big in my hometown here Winchester, Virginia.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: I actually went to school with John Bird, a very
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: grandson I think of Harry F.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 5: Bird.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: So yeah, the Birds. I mean there's a statue of
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Admirald Bird down in front of our courthouse. So yeah,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: all decked out in his in his polar gear. So
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: very interesting stuff when when you know, you start tying
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: all this stuff together about who these people were.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is I did not know that.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: That is.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: That's a small world, least back then, right, And.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: It's a small world after all. I mean, this dude
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: he lived until like nineteen eighty six. In nineteen seventy eight,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: he released a book called I'm an Endangered Species. If
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: that tells you all you need to know about this
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: guy's ego, right.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: They don't make them like me anymore exactly.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: He wrote a book all about how great he was
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: and I'm not even joking.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: Trying to create a legacy at the end of his
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: life there.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so very interesting stuff about d H. Bird
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: and the school book Depository and these all these crazy connections.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Man, Yeah, that is nuts. I have some star comments
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: I'll go over before I get into truly.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: Rob Yes, Roy handsome, truly.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to see him in a little bit.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: Joe Hansom Barelli, I like.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: That nickname, Tiny Dancer. You're not going to see those taxes.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: She's talking about Lee Harvey Oswalt's tax returns until until
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: two thoy thirty nine, she checked. So we will take
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: her word for that. That's in about fourteen years. Fifteen years.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe I doubt those IRS records. Timothy Ryan says, we'll
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: ever see the light of day. I have my doubts
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: they will as well.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course I've tried. There's not much info
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: out there on Bill Shelley. The most interesting things out
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: there on Bill Shelley is of course from Earl Goles
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: who gleaned some interteresting information but not sure how accurate
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: it was. So and not much out there on Roy
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: Truley either, but hopefully Joe gleaned a little bit.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are the a lot, but uh yeah, we'll
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: get into it, I promise. David Arbuckles has so many
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: interesting people involved in the JFK assassination. So little of
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: it do we really know? Yes, right, So stay tuned
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: and make sure you're subscribed to hear all of the
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: uh little known tidbits all the Yes, Yes, Trey said
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: he misses Rob's voice work. Rob did a the Danny
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: ars voice. I think that's what he was referring to. Yesh,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: Danny Arsay is dead, right, Jack says, believe unknown sir.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: Given his age at the time of this, it's very
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: possible you can be alive because yet or he'd be
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: close to it. Yeah, so it's not out of the
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: wrong possibility if Danny took care of himself that he'd
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: still be around right now.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, three years younger than Buel I think and Bules kicking.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: So yeah, if he was born in forty five, it's
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: not twenty twenty five yet, that's eighty years.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's something would follow up on for sure.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: How sus is Shelley Trace.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: Says, well, yeah, he's sus But again, we don't really
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: have that much info on him other than what goals
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: pulled up and clinged from this unknown source. So we
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: don't know how accurate it was that you know, Shelley
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: was former CIA and all this stuff. It's an interesting story,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: believe me, but we have no corroborating information, right, just
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: ruma the rumor.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: Mill, right. Timothy Ryan Roy truly has always been sus.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: We will get into that shortly and we will let
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: you decide for yourselves.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: Did you find the document Joe about I don't think
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: it was. It was referring to a roy truly, but
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was our voy truly. Yes, yes,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: we're gonna get walked around with the parakeet on his finger.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I I did come and rove.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think that's our roy truly.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: But no, what what we actually have a document we're
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: gonna get into shortly about a different Roy truly who
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: was not the Roy truly of the tsb D.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: And much more interesting roy truly say.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: So, yeah for sure? And Timothy? Wasn't there a story
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: of a janitor hiding on the sixth floor during the shooting?
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 6: Uh?
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: Is that where you're referring to? Uh?
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: This was a story made up by I can't remember
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: it was a Houston or a Fort Worth based reporter
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: who claimed that a Negro employee janitor of the School
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: of Deposit the Toy had told him this story about
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: seeing some things, but it turned out to be a
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: false news story allegedly.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: I've heard that some people might know the name of
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: their reporter. It's pretty famous, but I you know, I
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: can't pull it top of mind right now who that
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: reporter was, but I think he was purveyor of some
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: some false stories.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: Timothy also said live detector for Buel. I believe that
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: there was a document on it, but the results of
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: it were never.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: Well here, yeah, here's the thing, so we all know
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: he was given a polygraph. What we don't know is
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: if he passed it. They say he did, okay, but
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: we don't have the lie detective results, the polygraph examination results.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: We don't know what they asked him. We don't know
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: what he said. And the HSCA had questioned and requested
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: of the debt of the Dallas Police this polygraph examination,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: and they were told that we don't have it. We
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: don't know what happened to it, which is sus of course.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, fast forward to the AARB. Thomas Semilak,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: who has been interviewed over on Robbie's show Out of
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: the Blank, was a staff member for the aar B,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: and in his box they came across some of this
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: stuff and they were interested in finding it too, and
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: they again petitioned at the Dallas Police Department to find
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: this polygraph examination, and they basically never got an answer
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: because many many years ago, of course, when I was
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: deep diving into Fraser and first found out about this
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: polygraphic examination that he was given. You know, that's something
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: that I wanted to see, and so did Bart. So
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: Bart Camp, Okay, our friend Bart Camp. He did a
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: four year request with the National Archives and he was
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: sent a seventeen page file. But it was basically all
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: this stuff, seventeen pages of trying to find the polygraph
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: examination results, not the actual polygraph examination itself.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, documents saying do you have a no, we don't where.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It was just a back and forth bunch of craps.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: So it turned out to be a dead end. But
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: kudos for Bart for trying to figure it out. Yeah,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: but unfortunately there was no no fire for that smoke.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: That one interesting document that I would say is very
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: suspect at being missing. I mean, it's kind of important,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: I would think, you know, but what do I know?
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and big Bad Josh says, I think DPD want
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: to charge Buell Wesley Fraser as an accomplice. Yes, I
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: think that was their leverage.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they did charge him as an accomplice
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: initially and eventually dropped the charges as they did on
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: Dougherty and Williams and Shelley and love Lady.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and last here, although I haven't shut the chat
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: tray says, is that supposed to be the warehouse floor
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: on the bottom of the screen our screen? Yes, although
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: ours might be a little better finished than their.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: Plywood, right, not as dirty as their ship was. Yeah.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: So all right, now that we're caught up, I let's uh,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: let's get into mister Roy truly, sir, The Truly Show,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: The Truly Show, by the way, great title, and of
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: course that's to the Truman Show. Oh it's great. Yeah,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like like an ice wall like they
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: in Antarctica, like they say they have, right, synchronicity, folks, synchronicity. Ah,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: So Roy s truly and.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: Had some bitch knew how to wear a hat though.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: You gotta you gotta give it to him.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he he has some style and his I don't
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: name San sm San som truly.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: That will be the only time Roy goddamn Samsum Trulli.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Born twenty ninth of August nineteen o seven in
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: Hubbard Hill County, Texas. He died at age seventy eight
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five in Dallas County, Texas. And like
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: we had touched upon before, Rob, he was employed at
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: the TSBD since nineteen thirty four.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: I got some of the best in words working for
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: me down there. To call me sir sometimes.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He was Lee Harvey Oswald's supervisor at the TSBD.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: He interviewed and hired Oswalt on October fifteenth, nineteen sixty three.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: That would be the day after he got a call
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: from Ruth Payne inquiring about out an opening that mister
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: Fraser had and some of the other women in Irving
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: had talked about during coffee. Lynn, Lenny May, Fraser's sister Marina, Ruth,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: all the housewives and Irving.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: Were all the hens, the house hands.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were getting together and doing some gossiping. So
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: after Kennedy's assassination, Truly ran up the TSBD stairs with
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: Dallas Police officer Marion Baker. On the way to the
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: upper floors, Officer Baker discovered Oswalt in the second floor
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: lunch room drinking a Coca Cola. Officer Baker appointed his
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: service weapon at Oswalt. Truly then identified Oswald as a
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: TSBD employee. Satisfied with Truly's response, Truly and Baker then
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: proceeded up the stairs and uh so Truly testified for
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: the Warrant Commission on I'll let me see this here.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: He actually, like a lot of the other people in
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: the TSBD, was uh interviewed twice.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: Rob believe he was going to d C too.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: Yep, so in d C and then they followed up
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: in Texas.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: So, uh I thought I read somewhere that he was
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: able to bring his grandson with him to to DC
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: to see the sights.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: Oh I didn't. I didn't see that.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: I saw this FBI document that was very glowingly attributed
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: to Roy Truly and how friendly he was to the bureau,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: and how respectful he was of the Bureau, and you
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: know all that jazz.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there there was a document that said how we
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: had been so helpful.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: So, yes, praise him, praise him, Yes.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: Bless his heart. So let me read one of his
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: first affid David, which was on the twenty third of November,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: the Saturday. Truly states, I am a superintendent of the
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: TSBD for eleven Elm Street, Dallas, Texas. I was working
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: in that capacity yesterday, Friday, November twenty second, sixty three.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: I have nineteen employees in the plant. Lee Harvey Oswalt
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: was one of those employees. We considered him a temporary employee.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: We work a lot of extra employees during the summer
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: and fall. Mister O. V. Campbell, one of the owners,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: and I started to launch a few minutes after twelve o'clock.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: We knew that the parade was nearly down to us,
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: so we stopped and watched the President go by. After
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: the President passed, we heard what sounded like an explosion.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: I heard three such explosions. Then I realized they must
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: have been shots. I saw an officer break through the
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: crowd going to our building. I realized he did not
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: know anything about our building, so I ran in with him.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: The officer and I went through the shipping department to
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: the freight elevator, then started up the stairway. We hit
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: the second floor landing. The officer stuck his head into
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: the lunch room, where there was a second floor landing.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: The officer stuck it. I'm sorry, I reading that again.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: Where there are coke and candy machines. Lee Oswalt was
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: in there. The officer had his gun on Oswalt and
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: asked if he was employee. I answered yes. We then
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: went up to the stairs to the fifth floor, where
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: we found the elevator open. We took the elevator to
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: the seventh floor and out on the roof. We searched
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: the roof and a small room also checked the landings.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: We could look out over the tracks and below. We
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: did not find anything. We started down the elevator. The
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: officer took a hurried look on a couple of floors
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: on the way down. When they got down there. By
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: that time there were several people in the building. Some
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes later, I was checking our employees and I
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: did not find Lee. I asked mister Shelley if he
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: had seen Lee. He said no. I then contacted so
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: I got to stop right there up. Yes, sir, didn't
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: he just see Lee in the second floor encounter?
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So we're going to get into who else was
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: possibly missing. But he had just seen Lee a few
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: minutes before. He's asking Shelley this. He contacted Chief Lumpkin
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: and told him Lee was missing. Then they went up
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: to the sixth floor and they found Captain Fritz, and
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: that told Captain Fritz that Lee might be missing and
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: where he lived.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 5: I did not see Lee anymore. We didn't run a
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 5: thorough check of our employees. They fell into application for him.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 5: In Lee Oswald's case, a lady from Irving called and
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 5: said a neighbor had a brother working for me and
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 5: he had said we could use some more help. This
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 5: woman blah blah blah. We know that woman, and that
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 5: is of course Ruth Payne.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: That woman, that woman, and you know, like we talked
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: about on our members only, there is a contentious thread
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: about Ruth Payne and on the education forum now that
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: we touched on. We're not going to go into now.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: But so this is truly here on the top with
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: the red arrow pointing towards truly with his nice hat on,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: wearing it so fashionably. Very shortly after the assassination, he
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: was actually with mister O. V. Campbell, like we said,
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: we were going to lunch at the time the motorcade
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: of President Kennedy passed in front of the TSBD. Truly
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: stated that immediately after the shooting, at the time he
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: and mister Campbell apparently became separated by the surgeon crowd
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: and therefore he would not be able to comment regarding
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: any person's observed by mister Campbell at the time. I
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: think this was the FBI document from the twenty.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: Third by interesting two. Before you go on to the
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: next slide, sure go back to that one, okay, Okay,
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: So you point out Truly on here right and right
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: in the foreground right to the left of Truly is
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: the backside of the mister cowboy hat man. Okay. They
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: was standing in front of Danny Rsa on the over
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: on the sidewalk, just prior to the motorcade going by.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: This isn't like the immediate aftermath. Yeah, so everybody scattered
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: at this point from their original locations. You can see
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: prayer Man up on the steps as well. You can
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: see Frasier standing up there with his arms crossed right
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: dead in the middle of the top of the stairway,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: just watching everything unfold up here in my moccasin. Ah.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and looks like the cowboy man is looking up,
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: I mean for sure.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, for sure, like the only one that
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: is looking up that starting to move towards the rail
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: yard down Elm Street.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I mean he he was a cowboy,
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: so I guess he would.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: Know cowboy be doing cowboys ship, you know, yeah, true.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: Uh let's see, all right, So just going back to O. V.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: Campbell for a second, there was and I got this
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: from the prayer Man website, and that is prayer Hyphenman
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: dot com. I think it's slash tsbd roy as truly,
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: but this is an article on November Saturday, November twenty third,
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: of course, the day after the assassination in the start,
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: Campbell said he ran towards the grassy knoll west of
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: the building, where he thought the sniper had hidden, he said, truly,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: and an officer ran into the building. That's, of course,
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: Marion Baker. In a storage room on the first floor.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: The officer, gun drawn, spotted Oswalt. Does this man work here,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: the Baker asked, truly Truly, who said he had interviewed
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: and hired Oswalt a couple of months earlier. Reported the
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: reportedly told the policeman that Oswald was a worker. But
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: the interesting thing about this.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: Is it's not.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: The second floor lunch room. It is the first floor
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: storage room. And OVI Campbell is a vice president of
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: the TSBT.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it means I think he was higher up than Truly, right,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: he was higher up than truly different capacity of the TSBD.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: So named this episode bsd's of the TSBD.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: Next time, next time. I'm sure this won't be our
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: last show on the Tsyes.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: But so what's the date of that, Joe, that article previous?
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: That is November twenty third, Saturday, so Saturday morning.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And of course the loan nutters will say, well,
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: this is just rampant hearsay, unsubstantiated hearsay, and you know,
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: the in the immediate wake of trying to get information
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: out there before it had been fully formed. You know,
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing this is coming secondhand from O. V. Campbell,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: who probably talked to Truly who told him room on
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: the first floor or in the one room on the
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: second floor, and things got confused. But again, there's a
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: big distinction between second floor lunch room and first floor
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: storage room, you know, when we're talking about this. So
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: and it's important in the context of Oswald being prayer Man.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: Hence why we are finding it on Bart's fine site
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: prayer Hyphenman dot com.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's really one of the best sources when it
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: comes to the TSBD and everyone in it. And I'm
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: going to read a little bit from his website in
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: a second. But uh so on the Oswald File and
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: the FBI, we're going to talk about the other Roy
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: truly Rob.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: On December fifth, nineteen sixty three, at Memphis, Tennessee, doctor
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: Clement Cotter, senior Surgeon.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: So not a Skfuza, Yes, another BSD.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: YES Public Health Service Hospital, Telephonically Advised Special Agent Hero Bush,
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: not b U s c H. Don't get excited, ladies
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: and gentlemen.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: TV show Welcome Back Cotter.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: That that predates me.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I know, I know. I'm sorry.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: I hate to admit it.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: It was a great seventies sitcom that starred John Travolta,
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: oh as Vinny Arena M and his in his fellow
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: classroom full of a fellow of twenty year olds that
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: were supposed to be in high school.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: Hm.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: Very funny.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: I'll have to check that out. Uh said that he knew.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: I said, you will like it. It's funny. Welcome Back
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: to Carder. Yeah, check it out.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: I just wrote it down. So Hero Bush said that
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: he knew of one Roy Truly of Dallas, Texas, possibly
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: identical with the employer of Lee Harvey Oswald. At the TESBD,
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: doctor Carter furnished the following information concerning the Truly, whom
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: he thought might be identical with this individual. From nineteen
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: fifty three to nineteen fifty five, Truly worked as a
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: chauffeur and a general handyman for doctor Andrew Toomb, who
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: operated a clinic on Howlettsville Highway, Victoria, Texas, where doctor
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: Cotter was assigned as a student physician for four months
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty four. Truly was a peculiar person and
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: that he frequently carried a pet parakeet with him on
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: his finger.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: I bet his fingers met so good.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: I was scared. I didn't have it, Rob, because I
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: have a ton of slides, but I'm glad I do.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: Truly was reputed to be an experienced sniper, and on
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: one occasion told doctor Cotter of an experience in Europe
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: during World War Two sniping at the Germans, after which
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: encounter he was captured by the Germans and commended by
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: the German officer commander who allegedly captured him in fifty seven,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: while doctor Cotter was practicing at Galveston, Texas, Truly visited
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: his office where he was selling stock and gave a Dallas,
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: Texas address. So was Roy Truly a super sniper in
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: World War Two?
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: I'll picking off them, God, I am Germans won at
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: a time as they came over to fence, Bam, bam bam.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: Heads exploding, beers shattered everywhere. The hills were alive with
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: the sound of music.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: I love when you go in character, but I'm I'm
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: going to continue here. In nineteen sixty doctor tomb died,
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: but Roy Truly is well known to doctor George Constant,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: psychiatrist at Victoria, and who should be known to other employees.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: Doctor Carter described Truly as a white male forty to
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: forty five years of age, six foot too tall, weighing
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: two hundred pounds, with a pot belly, brown wavy hair,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: dark eyes, some gold on the front heath, a cigar smoker,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: who was in nineteen fifty seven married to a woman
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: named Jackie ironically Jackie Brown.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: I mean this, Roy Truly was a pimp, gold teeth,
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: walked around with a parakeet on his finger, probably a
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: mink coat. If I'm guessing correctly, it gave me six
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: foot two with a little pot billy, probablyester pants and
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: cowboy boots.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: Of course Colleen has to go, but I just want
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: to say good night, Colleen.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: Good night, Colleen.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: I know you'll catch up on the rest. Yeah. So,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: but before we do that, Rob, I figured, since we
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: just read that description of Roy Trully, let's see if
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: he was forty to forty five with a pot billy,
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: because we have a one minute clip from CBS. I
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: believe it was in nineteen sixty four, So let's uh,
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: let's get to it. If you can't hear it, stop me, sir.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 6: I realized that he didn't knows the layout of the belly.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 6: I ran in with him just a matter of seconds
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 6: after the third shot, and we ran across the shipping
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 6: and floor stopped at the on after the first fight,
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 6: to the second floor, and the officer looked in the
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 6: snack bard Jason's saw with me. I had a gun
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 6: in his hand, and uh he threw the gun.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 6: Toward the middle of our wall, and he looked probably
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 6: a little start like anybody else would if you just
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 6: put a gun in the stomach part at once. Which
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 6: I thought was natural. As you recall it, does that
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 6: seem like a reasonable length of time for him to
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 6: have been able.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: To do those things?
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 6: Uh, he could have done it if he'd have been
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 6: off for fires. So if he'd done pre find it
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 6: right away. But the the uh ceilings a low on
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 6: uh each floor, and the stairways did not have too
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 6: many steps, all right, So that.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: Is Roy truly fily hiding his gold front teeth in
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: that interview. Yeah. Yeah, So.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: We're going to get to the second part of the
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: document here, which is a follow up on the first
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: part of this person that called the FBI and says
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: I knew Roy trully. The following investigation has been conducted
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: by Special Agent Nat Pinkston, Dallas, Texas, December seventh, sixty three.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: Agent Pinkston has interviewed mister roy As Truly Warehouse Superintendent
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: TSBD on numerous occasions since November twenty seven, second sixty three.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: The description of Roy Truly, furnished by doctor Clement Cotter,
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: Senior Surgeon, Memphis, Tennessee, could not be a discript of
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: roy As Truly of the TSBD. A check of the
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: Dallas City directories from sixty three all the way back
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: to fifty one. Each year shows Roy Truly being employed
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: by the TSBD in Dallas.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: So that was.
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: Actually one of the misconceptions I had, Rob. I thought,
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: because you know, everyone, Shelley, everyone that TSBD was former
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: World War Two, right, almost every I mean not Danny Rsa,
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: of course, but the people that were old enough to
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: be a World War Two almost all were. And I
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: had assumed the same thing about Truly. But since he
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: started working TSBD thirty four, born in nineteen oh seven,
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: he would have been like late thirties by the time
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: of World War Two.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: But I did read something Joe that during the World
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: War two time frame he did leave the employ of
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: the school Book Depository to join the military service and
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: then came back after three or four years, I believe,
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: But I can't remember what branch he was in, what
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: capacity he was serving, I can't remember.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't come across that, Rob. And to be
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: completely honest, my ancestry membership stopped on I think like
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: a month ago, and it's like forty dollars a month
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: or something, So I haven't re upped it yet, but
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: I know we've found former persons of interests draft cards
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: like James River Martin his dad, who was in his forties.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: I think at the time you can get a special
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: exemption to serve, especially World War Two when they were
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: low on men. I'm not sure if you would have
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: been on the front line, but it wouldn't surprise me.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: But it didn't come up in the warrant commission for
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: what's that?
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: What that is worth?
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: But we'll have to follow up on that to see,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: because it does seem like almost everyone was former military.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll see if I can find it. I thought
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: I hadn't while you while you don't want. If I
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: find it, I'll holler at you.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, sounds good. I will continue here. So let's see. So, yeah,
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: that was not the Roy Truley that called into the
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: FBI and let me see. Uh all right, so he is.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: They are back in Dallas and mister Joseph ball Rob
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: is taking a deposition continuation of a deposition on May fourteenth,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: sixty four. Now, mister truly, this is a continuation of
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: your deposition. I took the last one, and you've been sworn,
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: and I don't know that it is exactly necessary for
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: you to take the oath again. Oh, no, mister Truly says,
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: I gave a statement under oath. Mister Ball, Oh no,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: this is a deposition you appeared before the commission. That's right.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: Mister Beelan took my sworn deposition about a week before
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: I went up there when you were both in Dallas,
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: and also took a recorded deposition. And on Bart's site
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: he has a document of the Dick de Belt recording
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: of mister Truly's testimony, although of course we have not
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: seen it since as far as I know.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: So they that interview very much.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be interesting, right, there was seems like
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: they they made a lot of recordings of a lot
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: of the more significant testimonies James Martin Marina, you know,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: and I the only thing I've heard is really bad
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: Frasier one, and I think that's from the HCA.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that wasn't dicked the belt. That was just
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: shitty okay tape.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: So before I go into what he said on his
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: second one, I'm just gonna go in quickly into how
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: he hired Oswalt. Mister Truley says he received a phone
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: call from a lady in Irving who said her name
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: was missus Paine All right, What did Missus pain say
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: and what did you say? Truly? She said to this effect,
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: mister Truly, you don't know who I am, but I
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: have a neighbor whose brother works for you. I don't
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: know what his name is, which is interesting, but he
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: tells his sister that you are very busy, and I'm
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: just wondering if you could use another man. And I
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: told Missus she said, I have a fine young man
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: living here with his wife and baby, expecting another baby
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: in a few days, and needs work desperately, and truly
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: tells Missus Payne to send Lee down, and mister Truly
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: would talk to him. He didn't have anything in mind
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: from him on a permanent nature, but if he was suited,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: we could possibly use him for a brief time. Was
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: there anything else from the conversation. Not really prior to
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just skipping into his first warrant commissioned testimony to
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: the elevant parks, mister Belan asked truly, prior to November
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: twenty second, did you have any discussion with him about
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: the presidential mortarcade or hear him talk to anyone about it? Truly,
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: I had never heard him talk to anyone, and I
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: didn't talk to him myself. Any other things you could
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: think about Oswald before November twenty second, offhand, I can't
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: recall a thing. Just like I said, he seemed to
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: go about his business in a quiet way, didn't talk much,
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: seemed to be doing a satisfactory job, so kind of
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: kept to himself, which is kind of consistent with the
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: Oswalt that you know we've talked about this past year.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: So your testimony to the commission, and we're going back
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: to the deposition back in Dallas, do you recall any
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: time that you saw any guns in the TSBD Depository building,
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: mister Ball asks. So this is interesting, Rob, because they're
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: calling truly back because they obviously heard something from someone
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: else to ask him about this. And this is, of
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: course mister Warren Castor, who on November twentieth, two days
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: before the Wednesday, brought in two guns to the TSBD
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: to show them off. Mister Ball, Now, before inquiring into
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: the circumstances of seeing two guns that belonged to mister
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: Warren Castor on November twentieth, sixty three, I'll ask you
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: whether you or not you ever, at any time before
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: that or after, saw any guns in the TSBD. Truly,
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: never before, mister Ball, never before. And between that date
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: Wednesday twentieth and twenty second, have you ever see any
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: guns in the TSBD. I did see guns there after
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: the assassination. And he goes on to say the guns
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: from the police officers. It was kind of a pointless questioning.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: Here he goes on to say, the only gun he
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: saw after was the gun taken out by the detectives.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: Of course, the carkano found on the sixth floor before
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: the assassination. Was there any other occasion besides the one
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: we are acquiring about when you saw guns on the TSBT,
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: truly says never. So on November twentieth, you saw two
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: guns owned by mister Krasser. Can you tell me what
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: the circumstances were under which you saw these guns? And
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: he just goes on to say, mister Casser came in
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: during the lunch period and showed him a twenty two
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: rifle he had bought from his for his son at
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: the time and a thirty odd six that he had
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: bought from hisself for himself, mister cast And of course
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: that's interesting for a number of reasons. But of course
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: the thirty odd six that Lauren Hall had, but also
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: the mauser as well that was initially reported on the
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: sixth floor. So mister Ball is continuing, now, do you
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: recall your testimony before the commission you told him that
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: at some time after the shooting you advise Captain Fritz
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: of the name Lee Harvey Oswaltz and his address in Irving. Yes,
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: I did, and in order to place the time of
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: it was a before or after the rifle had been
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: found on the sixth floor, Truly says I didn't know.
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: And essentially what they're talking about here is the timing
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: that mister Truly gave Lee Harvey Oswalt's address to Captain Fritz.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: So of course Truly did not have Oswalt's address off
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: the top of his head. He had to call the
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: payment office. I think it's like a mister Atkin who
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: then gave him.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: We had Oswald's application, Yes, with the information which was
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: Ruth's Irving address. Yeah, which is why they went there right,
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: so that they.
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: Didn't have the rooming house address on Beckley. So that
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: begs the point. And I saw this as was something
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: that was argued about, I think on the educational forum thread.
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: If because a lot of people say because Ruth Payne
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: contacted or made a call out to Truly, and Ruth
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: Payne was a truly had to be CIA. But if
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: he was, would he not have the right address or
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: maybe not have the address off hand?
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: Uh, I don't know, but you know he has to
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: call the payment's office get an address, and he gets
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: the wrong address.
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you were thinking the right one. But again, I've
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: done shows on this before about the Beckley Street rooming house,
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: and the police were there way before they should have been, Yeah,
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: way before they should have known about that address, right,
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: So somebody knew he was staying there and tipped off
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: the Dallas police. We just don't know who, right, and
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: of course be sorry.
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: And of course the uh the police car honking outside
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: of the rooming house right was Arline Roberts. Saw they
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: knew where he was. But Truly says he didn't even
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: give this to Fritz until around one pm or after
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: one pm, And that's.
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: Only fifteen when he reported Oswald is missing, So he
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: didn't even have the information ready by one fifteen. I
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: think it was closer to one forty five. Yeah, he
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: actually gave him the pain address.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: So just from that it would indicate that truly might
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: not have been in on things. Just from that, I'm
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: not saying he wasn't. But uh but uh, funny you
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: brought up rob because of course Oswald wasn't the only
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: person who was missing, and so let's see, mister Ball asked, Truly, now,
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: what did you tell Chief Lumpkin when you came down
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: from the roof of the building. Truly, when I noticed
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: this boy was missing, I told Chief Lumpkin that we
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: have a man that's missing. I said, it may not
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: mean anything, but he isn't here. I first called down
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: to the outer warehouse and had mister Atkin. I was
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: right pull the application of the boy so I can
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: get quickly his address in Irving and his general description,
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: so I could be more accurate than I would be.
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: Mister Ball, was he the only man missing.
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: Despite having just seen him in the second floor lunch room?
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: Truly, that the only one I noticed at the time. Now,
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: I think there was one or two more, possibly Charles Gives,
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: but I had seen him out in front, walking up
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: the street just before the shots were fired. Time out,
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: time out. He saw Oswalt after he last saw Gibvens
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: he saw Gibvens on the street before the shots were fired.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because Givens left much and never came back, right.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: But he didn't report Givens missing. He reported Oswalt missing,
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: and he had seen Oswalt much recently on the second,
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: second floor or first floor whatever. That's a whole tangent,
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: and you've gone You've ton shows on that, and much
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: smarter people than I have gone into that. So h continuing,
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: where's the last place you saw Givens, mister Paul asks, Truly,
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: the last place I remember seeing Gibbons was in the
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: middle of the crossing, the middle of Houston Street walk
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: in which direction east north of elm Did Gibbons come
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: back to the building later, Ball asked, Truly, I didn't
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: see him later on? He did? Well?
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: When how much later?
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: Truly? Much later? I suppose. I don't know his actions
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: during that day, mister Paul. Did he come back to
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: the building No, after the shooting, I can't say.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 6: So.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: That is, of course, one of the big items of
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: contention when it comes to truly is did he single
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: out Oswalt as the only one missing when in fact
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: he wasn't the only one missing, and he had seen
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: him more recently than he had saw other employees.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little sus Yeah, a lot of suss, a
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 2: lot of suss. Yeah.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: So all right, let me continue on here, and I'm
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: gonna wrap this up quickly.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: Actually, having just seen the guy on the site more allegedly,
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that, I mean, this guy had nineteen warehouse employees, Okay,
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 2: that I'm sure he didn't see prior to the assassination,
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: and they all weren't just waiting on the first floor.
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: To be let the will you I'm here, mister, you
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: know present.
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: It really is, it really is. And you know, I
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: know we're a little in here now. Of course. Prayerman
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: uh dot com slash tsbd Roy Truley I got a
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: lot of good information from just want to give a
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: shout out to bart and if you want to, of course,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: read his book prayer Man. It's it's great, and his
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: website has a lot of good things as well. So
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: I wanted to read one more thing. So at some
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: point the War Commission found among the boxes forming the
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: sniper's nest were four that had twenty eight identified identifiable prints.
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: On the boxes traceable to Oswald were two pomp prints
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: and one fingerprint. Twenty four prints were made by two
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: law enforcement officials, but one pomperant cannot be identified. So
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: they try to get everyone in the TSBD to give
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: their fingerprints. Jaeger Hoover, the FBI did, but this is
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: actually a letter from Hoover to Rank another war commission.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: He says, mister Roy truly werehouse superintendent, who has been
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: very cooper with his Brewerau in the past, strongly objected
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: to the printing of all employees as he felt it
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: would seriously handicap the work of his firm, So truly
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: standing up to the FBI saying no, you can't get
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: the fingerprints of every employee to Hoover, which is interesting.
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: And they let it pass. They did not end up
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: fingerprinting all the employees. Yeah, stated there about Truley's objections. Yeah, yeah,
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: which which is very a nice little tidbit I came
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 2: out onto. But so of course, when we talk about.
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: The TSBD, Barry Ernst's book The Girl on the Stairs,
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: who I know we've done an episode for before, has
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of great content of could Oswald have made
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: it down the stairs with all the other activity on
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: the stairs at that time and in term in time
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: to meet Truly and Baker on the second floor. But
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: I want to read three quick pages from his book,
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: pages sixty one through sixty three. Oh, and this one's
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: for Trey. I want to keep this sentence. The sun
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: was just coming up the next morning as I entered.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: This is Barry Ernst talking the Continental Trailways terminal. A
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: dispatcher told me Kenneth Cody was off that day, but
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: I could catch him the next day before six am,
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: before his six am run to Shreveport. That was just
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: the first little paragraph of that. So I had to
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: keep it, had to get in.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: The gay nineties were closed.
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then Ernest went off to the
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: depository to talk with who whomver I could find there,
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: hopefully Victoria Adam. He's the main reason for this visit.
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: In one of his letters, Eugene Aldridge told me he
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: had once tried but was refused to admit admittance to
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: the sixth floor of the building. He was a local,
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: though I was a quote young student and quote from
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: far off Pennsylvania. It doesn't matter where you're from. Roy
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: Truly emphasized only employees are allowed on the sixth floor.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: So Ernest says, so are you hiring? He teased a
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: truly stern face broke into a smile. The humor worked
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: for he invited me into his first floor office, still
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: the building's manager. Truly consented to a rare interview. He
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: took me back five years. This is like in sixty eight.
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: He had been standing outside when the Marty Cape passed.
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: Truly distinctive distinctly heard three shots, he said, then accompanied
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: a running police officer, Mary and Baker into the depository.
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: The officer was looking for a way to the roof.
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: The freight elevators weren't available, and so both began climbing
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: the wooden stairs in the northwest west corner of the
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: first floor. Truly told me he was ahead of the
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: policeman by several feet when on his way up to
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: the third floor, he noticed Baker was no longer behind him.
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 1: Returning back down to the second floor landing, Truly found
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: Baker in the lunch room with his gun drawn and
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: pointed quote at close range, directly to the stomach of
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswalt, who was standing lunch room. When Truly
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: identified Oswald as an employee, Baker holster his gun, and
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: they went on their way, continuing to ascend to the roof.
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: How quickly did Officer Baker enter the building? Ernst asks,
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: very quickly. We were actually pushing people out of the way.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: And once you two were inside the building, how quickly
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: did you move from the front entrance elevators and up
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 1: to the stairs on the second floor. We were hustling,
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 1: that's for sure, Truly says. I led the way because
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: I knew the layout, but we were moving fast, much
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: faster than the time tests we did for the Warrant Commission.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: I then asked Truly if anyone or any motion caught
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 1: his attention as he emerged onto the second floor ahead
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: of Baker. This was an important point. The door was
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: pneumatically operated. Once opened, it took several seconds for it
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: to close completely. I was curious as to whether it
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: may have been in the act of closing and an
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: indication of fleeing. Oswalt had just used it right, because
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: that would mean he would had to make even better
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: time down if the door wasn't closing right few seconds.
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: Truly said he didn't notice anything. Was Oswalt holding a
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: bottle of coke? Or did he have anything in his hands.
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: Truly gives me a sly smile. This too, was a
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: key point for Oswalt. To be holding a soda, he
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: would have had to arrive in the lunch room even
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: earlier than the word report concluded, since he was already
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: on an extremely tight schedule as is, additional seconds allotted
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: for the purchase of a coke from a machine. Smelled trouble,
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: and apparently Truly knew this because he gave him a
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: smile before answering. I know this is important, Truly said,
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: but I can't recall one way or the other. How
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: did Oswalt appear as the officer was pointing his gun
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: at his stomach. That's the strangest part, Truly replied. Here's
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: a man who had just shot the president of the
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: United States, and he was as calm and collected as
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: anyone I'd ever seen. I didn't see any fear in him. Truly,
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 1: who had hired Oswalt in October sixty three as a
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: temporary order Filler, told me Oswalt was a quiet person
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: who kept him himself. Do you think he shot the president,
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: Ernst asked, Truly said nothing. He only displayed a furtive smile,
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: a raising of the eyebrows, and a slight cocking of
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 1: his head. He tried to gump on the sixth floor,
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: and he said, not even CBS, who we played you
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: that one minute clip of Truly from the CBS clip
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 1: was allowed to film up on the sixth floor. But
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: Truly did relent a bit and let him look around
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: the first floor, and I believe he went to the
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: second floor as well. So interesting that, And of course
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 1: we've heard this before, but interesting that he says he's
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 1: as calm as collected. He didn't say he was calm
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: as anyone i'd seen. If you shot the president, then
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: Oswalt wasn't an assassin. You have to think it's probably
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 1: the first person he killed. If you assume that he
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: did it right. Yeah, the you know, your heart will
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: be pounding, the adrenaline, running down the stairs, hiding the rifle,
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: getting the coke, just to be as.
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: Conic a motherfucker, you'd be out of breath.
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So interesting he says that, And of course there's
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: a ton else on. Truly, I skipped a few slides
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: because I know we're going at along, but you know, oh,
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: I just want to bring up one thing real quick
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: in regards to one of the things or some of
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 1: the contentious points on truly that I might not have
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: gotten to. He initially said that he ran behind the
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: police officer aka Baker in his twenty second and twenty
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 1: third statements. He later and there was warrant commission and said,
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 1: like we just read, he was ahead of Baker and
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 1: when he noticed he wasn't behind him as he went
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: in between the second and third floors, I think, and
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: Baker wasn't with him. He turned around and then saw
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 1: the alleged interaction with Baker and Oswalt.
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 2: That doesn't make sense at all, because if you're a
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: police officer and you think that the shots came from
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: that building and you're running in there with you know,
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: a manager of the building, right, the cop with the
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: gun is probably going to be in front of Roy truly,
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 2: in case they do encounter the gunman fleeing from the building. Yeah,
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: it makes no sense that he would be behind truly,
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it truly was that stupid,
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 2: you know, to lead the charge in there to find
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 2: this assassin who just killed the president and he's in
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 2: front with no weapon. That makes no sense whatsoever. What
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 2: does make sense is if Marion Baker was in front,
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: which lends credence to this whole second floor lunching encounter
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 2: being fabricated.
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's a very good point. And uh, of
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: course that's what he initially said and then and then
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: changed it.
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so interesting. Yeah so, Uh, Baker's first first day
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 2: Affidavid testimony, he that that I don't think he even
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: mentioned the second floor lunching encounter.
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think you're right. I didn't
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: want to go into a whole tangent on that because
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 1: you've done a whole a lot of but I believe
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: you're right. Yeah. Yeah, so, And I'm not sure when
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: Roy Truly retired from the TSBD. I think it was
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: well into the seventies and died in what eighty five,
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: which would kind of make sense. But Barry Ernest and
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 1: you know, five years later, just rolls into the TSBD,
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: makes a joke and is bsing with Truly in his office,
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: so he was semi accessible, and there's a ton of
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 1: stuff on him. I would just recommend checking out Bart's
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: work on him and a lot of other people in
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 1: the TSBD that we have talked about today. Ron, it's night.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I couldnt find where Roy truly took a
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: break from the school book depository to enlist. But the
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 2: information is there somewhere. It's it quite possibly could be
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 2: in his Warren Commission testimony. I'm not one hundred percent sure,
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: but I know I saw it somewhere. So somebody can
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 2: track that down for us, that'd be great. He shoots
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 2: an email at the Lone Guman podcast at gmail dot.
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 1: Com really quickly, Rob, Do you want to know something funny?
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 1: In his first Warren Commission testimony? Before he worked for
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: the TSBD, he went to work for National Casket Company. Yeah,
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: which kind of makes sense when he when you saw
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 1: that one minute clip, right, he looks very kind of
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 1: dry and what you would kind of think like a
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 1: superintendent HR type would be right. Uh. Then went to
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 1: work a short time at the Dallas Coffin Company, staying
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 1: in the same industry there for several months.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: You wanted the document we're looking for Joe, Well, I'm
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 2: sorry it might have his service in there, because I
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 2: remember I remember all seeing all that somewhere.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: He went to work in the TSBD July nineteen thirty four.
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: Scrolling down then and then what I went on through
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: that time until the present time. During the war, I
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 1: worked in the North American plant at Arlington. Okay, that
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: is mister Blen s North American Aviation nor truly says
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: North American Aviation Plant at Arlington for around fourteen months
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: at night. But I continued to hold my job.
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: Okay. So he took on a second job at an
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: aviation company during the war.
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 1: Ye, yeah, yeah, yeah, he took charge of all shipping there.
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: He would go down to work two to four hours
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: a day.
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: How far is it from Dallas to Arlington.
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. I'll tell you a second. Just
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 1: check some of the comments as I checked out.
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 2: Twenty miles.
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 1: Twenty miles, Okay, that's commutable. So yeah, he wasn't obviously
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 1: a sniper as we established or overseas. He helped the
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: war effort from from home.
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as he was up in years. You know, he
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 2: was in his what probably thirties or forties at that time.
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 2: He's born ninety you know seven, you.
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 1: Say nineteen oh seven, Yeah, so he was it's.
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 2: About thirty seven. He would have been thirty. And during
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 2: the war we didn't get into it until forty after
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 2: forty one, so he would have been mid thirties, probably two.
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: Old, thirty seven thirty eight. Yeah, I mean I think.
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 2: Especially pot belly, gold teeth, and a parakeet on his fingers, right,
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 2: didn't want that ype enlisting, you know what I'm saying.
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: If that would have been much more entertaining if the
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: epic sniper who was commended by the German commander that
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: caught him was De Roy Truley of the TSBD. But unfortunately, folks,
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 1: we cannot confirm say that that's true, that is not.
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: It would be funny, yeah, Jack says, sorry, Robert. Most
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 1: older men worked at plants and ports during World War Two.
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 1: I had two great grandfathers that worked in shipyards. Yeah,
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: there you go, that makes sense. Yeah, they only put
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: the eighteen to twenty young, twenty year olds on the
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 1: front line there.
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, young, dumb and full of you know what. Yeah.
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: So with that being said, thank you Joe for that
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: illustrious information on mister Roy handsome truly, And before we
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 2: head down to New Orleans, we should extend our prayers
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 2: and wishes for everyone involved in a horrible tragedy down
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 2: in New Orleans. Yes, down on Bourbon and canal streets.
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 2: That's great craziness. So let's grab Dean Andrews by the hand,
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 2: lead him to the back of the Court of the
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 2: Seven Sisters, well clear of Bourbon and canal streets, and
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 2: let's dance back there tonight. So for everybody out there
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 2: who joined us this evening, we've sincerely appreciated. We love
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 2: hanging out with you as we always do and kicking
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 2: off this new year strong, and we wish you well
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 2: and thank you. So without further ado, Dina Dina mhm Aden.
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 1: Ruby hears it and her head comes up, emails them.
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 2: It's good.
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 7: The greatest lies are told in the name of truth.
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 7: The greatest crimes are committed in the name of justice.
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 7: The quotation is Jim Garrison. It could be used for
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 7: him or against him. In this stranger's case.
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 2: He's got the video.
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 1: Holy m
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 2: And there's the awkward ending.