Latest / Authentic Living / Susan Luke Evans shares secrets to great story telling to boost return on Relationships

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Susan Luke Evans shares secrets to great story telling to boost return on Relationships · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious cover about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Turhage.
• 0:38
  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Al Roxanne Derhodge.
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  Thanks so much for tuning in the in again to authentic living with Roxanne.
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  This week, I have a colleague, Susan Luke Evans.
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  Hi, Susan.
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  How are you?
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  I'm Roxanne.
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  I'm good.
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  Good.
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  How is how is the weather in Toronto today?
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  It's the sun is shining, but it's not warm.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  And a bit of snow also out there.
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  We had snow this morning, but it's the streets are clear now.
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  So I'm, you know, I'm right by the lake.
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  So who knows?
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  Oh, okay.
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  You get that effect.
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  Yeah.
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  So Susan is a a leadership expert, and I'm gonna read a little bit about her background.
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  And, she's an international speaker that, is on a a plane more than most of us probably would
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  do in her lifetime.
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  So I'm gonna read a little bit about her, and then we're just gonna kinda jump into what she
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  does.
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  She's a leadership consultant and a communications expert, and she's among 12% of
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  Canadian speakers within, the 5000 member members of the global speakers of Federation to
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  hold the highest designation the certified speaking professional, something that is, you
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  know, such a privilege to have her, in Toronto with us at, I'm presently a member of, the
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  Canadian, Association of Professional speakers, caps.
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  So I get to see Susan about once a month when she's there.
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  And she as well, she's one of 34 speakers in the world, who has earned the global speaking
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  fellowship designation.
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  So again, a privilege to have her with us in Toronto.
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  Prior to starting to speak, she was the CEO of a financial services support company, where she
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  executed a basically a 5 year startup plan in only 3 years distributed dividends a year ahead
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  of schedule, which I'm sure a lot of people are very happy with, and led a subsequent highly
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  success full merger.
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  So, Susan, thanks for being on again, to, rerecord as we
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  say.
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  Hopefully.
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  So we're gonna talk a little bit about, kind of your path and what got you to the point where
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  your communications expert.
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  I I often say that all of us continue to learn to commute communicate effectively.
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  We're you know, as soon as we open our eyes, we're communicating whether it's, you know, to
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  our children or our husbands or our partners or anybody that we're gonna run into and Sometimes
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  we do it relatively well, but sometimes not so well.
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  Yeah.
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  I think we we all learn something new every day.
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  We may not be conscious of it.
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  At the time that we've learned it in terms of how we relate to other people.
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  But, but, but with the way the world is is changing with technology and all the other
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  electronic, aids and so forth.
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  If we don't learn something new every day, we're gonna be left behind.
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  I was talking to a a very old friend of mine the other day, and She still has a flip phone.
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  So that's good.
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  I was like, seriously.
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  So, anyway, my journey has been somewhat a I tell people that I have a checkered past,
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  because I've I've had 3 very distinct careers.
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  I was a school teacher, when I first started out, and I taught in very remote Native
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  American villages in Alaska.
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  I Wow.
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  Yeah.
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  I don't think I'd do it again, but I learned a lot.
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  I lived in log cabin.
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  No TV telephone, no running water, all that kind of stuff.
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  And, it seemed very, exciting at the time.
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  And and you adapt and you learned to live.
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  I I was a city girl.
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  So so what did I know?
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  But, I I learned very quickly how to cook and how to to, So and and all the things that a lot
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  of people knew how to do, but my mother was a lot like I am now.
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  She would rather make a speech than eat when she was hungry.
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  And so didn't know how to cook.
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  So I didn't know how to cook.
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  And, so so I I did that for several years, and then I moved to Honolulu because I thought I
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  deserved it.
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  And, At the time, I was a single mom.
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  And so my son grew up in Honolulu, and it was in Honolulu that I switched from the field of
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  education to become the CEO of the financial services support company that that you referred
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  to in the introduction.
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  So I did that for a while and and part of my job in in that position was to make
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  presentations on a regular basis to boards of directors of Financial Institutions to get them
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  to join our, organization which provided automated teller machine networking services to
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  financial institutions, both in the state and it was back in the day when when national and
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  international sharing, which was starting.
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  So once again, I was doing something I had no clue how to do.
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  But, my the chairman of my board, I asked her, I said, why did you hire me?
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  And she said, we hired you.
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  I said, I don't know anything about this.
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  And she said, well, we can teach you what you need to know, or you can learn it from vendors
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  or whomever.
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  But she said, well, we can't teach you anybody, our our people skills.
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  And she said, that's what we need you to to do is to communicate, to sell this program, to
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  work with people on a regular basis, the higher staff and make sure that they can work with
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  people and all those kinds of things.
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  So I sort of fell into that kind of accidentally, but, it was a a good, opportunity
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  for me.
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  And it was from there then that I because I, quite frankly, candidly, I got tired of making
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  the same presentation to the same kind of audience, you know, every every week.
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  And, I wanted to do some different things.
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  And so I I started my own business, just about a little over 30 years ago now.
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  And, the rest is history, so to speak.
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  Now I've reinvented my business multiple times, doing mostly training and and communication
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  skills in terms of, you know, how do you how do you communicate with different types of people?
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  How do you diffuse difficult situations and deal with conflict and all those kinds of
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  things?
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  Until I finally hit on the, opportunity to do what I have done for years, but didn't really
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  count it as a skill.
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  And that was to storytelling and stories to help other people communicate better,
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  specifically leaders in in big businesses.
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  And it was a client that asked me to do that.
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  Once again, I I'm I'm guessing I'm not smart enough to know what to do myself.
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  Other people have to tell me, and then I do it.
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  So I they asked me if I they needed help and and they had a a CEO who, was from a different
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  country.
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  And, this is in in the the deep south of the US.
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  And this this person that they had, imported to come and save the company because the company
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  was in somewhat of a crisis mode with from Australia.
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  Well, it's a lot different in terms of communication styles between the very slow
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  southern way of talk and and the very short, soft ways that, someone from Western Australia
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  spoke.
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  And so they They loved him.
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  They liked him.
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  They all got along, but they didn't understand where he said, not because he wasn't speaking
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  English, but he wasn't speaking the way they listened.
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  And so they said to me, can you help him maybe teach him how to tell stories so that people
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  will listen?
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  I said, well, I've never done that before.
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  And they said, yeah, but you use stories all the time in your in your session.
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  So why don't you do that?
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  So That's what I did.
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  And it's grown a bit.
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  So not only do I do a lot of stories and storytelling coaching for other people that
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  want to learn how to tell stories appropriately, I guess, is the best way to save
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  it and when to use them and, and all that sort of thing.
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  But also linking them now to and I guess this is a sign of my age the legacy that you that
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  you want to leave.
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  And so my my current Montras so to speak is everybody lives a great story, and that allows
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  you to build a legacy that you leave.
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  So something along those lines is kind of my, you know, nutshell checkered past and here I
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  am.
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  From teacher from teacher to CEO to telling stories.
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  Wow.
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  But if that if I wasn't hearing it, I may think that sounds like a little bit of a tail, but
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  fun bug.
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  Yeah.
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  No.
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  And and the but the good thing is, and, and, you know, you mentioned that I I work
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  Internationally, and I always have ever since I started my business, I've been very fortunate.
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  So I've spoken on and and worked in 6 different continents in over 50 countries, and many of
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  them multiple times.
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  So stories are the one thing that regardless of the level of of language that they have, and I
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  don't speak another language.
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  So if they're if English is not their first language, then you know, they they listen
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  differently.
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  They hear differently.
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  And so telling story allows them to focus on the on the words I'm actually saying because
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  they're they're interested.
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  It's a universal kind of communication tool.
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  So it's fun.
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  So you do you deal mostly with senior teams, or do you deal with all levels of the organization
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  about storytelling?
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  Well, primarily with us, mid management and senior executive teams, but I have done a
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  number of, I guess what you would call entry level kinds of folks, depending on the
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  industry.
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  I've done quite a bit of work in the hospitality industry.
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  So in terms of hotels, I've worked with the executive teams first make sure we're all on
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  the same page.
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  And then I worked with the with the front desk folks because they're the people that interact
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  primarily with the guests.
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  And if they're not doing things, then and this is not that they're I don't teach them
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  necessarily to stories at the front desk.
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  They don't have time to do that, but but I can use some of this some of the stories from my
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  experience in working in that industry to help them understand how to relate to their guests
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  more effectively and more appropriately.
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  So can you deconstruct something for me just like for I'm I'm curious myself and I'm gonna
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  go see people listening or watching are gonna So when let's give us an example of, maybe
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  users the southern example because I'm curious how you talk you know, this West Australia, you
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  know, Australian and how he could relate.
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  Like, how what is it?
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  What are the commonalities in reference to story that cuts through culture.
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  Well, when I do workshops on on how to use stories in your in your, organization and and
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  how to tell them.
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  Typically what I do is I I tell a story from my own experience usually about my son or, you
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  know, it's a personal story because everybody will identify with my mom or my kid or or, you
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  know, everybody wouldn't necessarily identify with all of the professional kinds of
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  experiences I've had or all of the cultures that I've worked in, but they will they will
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  connect with a personal story about someone that they could allow to connect with somebody
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  they knew.
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  Maybe not their mother, but maybe somebody else that was influential in their life or maybe not
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  their own child, but maybe when they were a child or a niece or nephew, whatever.
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  So we I tell him a story, and we debrief it a little bit about what did I do?
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  How did I do it?
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  Why did I I say this that or the other?
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  And then I usually ask them, we go around the room, and this is typically in a in a group of
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  probably 20, maybe 25 at the most, but but not any more than that.
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  So that we have time to to spend.
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  And after we've had a discussion about what a story is and all of that, Then I say now I want
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  you to to each tell me one specific concept that you need to communicate to your team this
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  week.
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  Mhmm.
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  And I don't have to understand the concept because sometimes I don't.
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  Is there if they're in the in in in that particular situation that where they have the
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  CEO, they had people all the way from guys that worked on the shop floor in in a chemical plant
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  all the way up to engineers and scientists that worked in in research and development and all
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  those kinds of things.
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  So they're widely, a wide, diversity in terms of education level in terms of of all of that.
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  But they all had teams or groups that they worked with and I said, so in 1 or 2 sentences,
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  you're gonna go around and you're gonna tell me out loud trying to god and everybody.
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  What is this concept?
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  And so they do.
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  And then I say you have 10 minutes to come up with a story or an experience and we don't like
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  the word stories and we'll use an experience that you can tell to the rest of the group that
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  will illustrate that just that one point.
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  It's not gonna be long, and this may may only take you 2 or 3 minutes to tell.
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  It's not a big deal.
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  And if you wanna stand up, you can stand up if you wanna sit down.
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  You know, I mean, it's not a a presentation skills course.
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  I don't do that.
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  There's a lot of people that do that.
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  I'm not that person.
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  And, and I could sell tickets.
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  To some of the stories that those those folks come up with because they're their stories, and
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  the the story that the CEO and that particular, example came up with after he and his executive
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  team went through this workshop with me was because they'd had so many difficulties in
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  their, in their organization, and they were they just went from crisis to crisis, and they
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  weren't sure if they're gonna stay open or, you know, be sold or filed for bankruptcy or
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  whatever.
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  And so he told the story of how he had turned a similar company around in Australia because
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  that was why they hired him.
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  They brought him because he's been successful there.
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  And once he told them that, they it didn't matter how he thought.
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  They were so inter stood in because it related to them.
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  They all were having these fears and these these concerns and what were they gonna do and
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  all of that.
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  And, He he had a meeting out of his out of the palm of his hand.
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  I mean, you could have heard a pin drop.
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  And, and it was just a matter of helping people understand.
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  People will listen to your stories.
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  Way more than they'll respond to your bullet points.
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  So if you if you tell the story behind the bullet points, Hooray, then you're then you're
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  great.
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  You can still use the bullet points.
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  This is not to say that you don't use charts and graphs and statistics and all those other
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  things that that businesses especially have to be aware of, and we pay attention to.
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  But in terms of of how you're explaining something or trying to get buy in or get
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  somebody to change the way they they do a particular process or procedure or whatever it
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  is.
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  It's usually the stories that capture people's attention And if they're personal, then that
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  tells those folks listening, Hey, this this person has been there, done that.
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  They're not just blowing smoke.
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  They're they're telling me something that they've been through and and they get me.
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  They get how I feel because decisions are made from from your heart.
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  I don't care how many statistics you have.
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  The bottom line decision is made from your heart every time.
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  So can I relate to him even though he's gonna tell me lots of things that I I'm struggling
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  with, but he's gonna tell me how the other environment, how we worked with them on a heart
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  level, on a heart level, And some of it probably wasn't pretty, I'm sure No?
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  To be able to get to get through, the change of the acquisition or whatever they were going
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  through.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  And the reality was it was so successful that they they sent it down through all the
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  different levels of the of the organization, and there were lots of other stories that came
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  out and things that were changed because of that.
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  And they they turned they turned it around.
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  I mean, it wasn't just because they started telling stories.
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  I get that, but that was the the new tool, the different way of relating to each other and
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  communicating with each other that allowed them to take the time to listen and to figure it out
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  together.
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  And then they made jokes about, you know, the way one One side talked and the other didn't,
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  and and they came up with internal marketing, plans about other changes that they were making
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  the came out of some of those workshops.
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  And, and it worked really, really well.
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  It didn't, it didn't change overnight, and, and it's something you have to learn to do.
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  You can't just tell one story and everything magically changes, but that's that's true with
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  any communication methodology.
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  So it's a it's an option or it's an add on.
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  However you wanna wanna say it.
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  It's not the it's not a magic bullet.
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  So, really, what I hear is that you're talking, I mean, for any of us, whether it's a CEO or a
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  middle manager, the core thing is transparency.
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  Right?
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  So sometimes as a leader and oftentimes, unfortunately, and you've been a CEO, I've been
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  an executive.
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  You know, you kinda think, okay, I'm gonna the CEO gets the, you know, the the the high high
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  level information, the senior executive, kind of gets, you know, a little bit more than him.
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  The middle managers get more, and then they have to basically, you know, communicate with
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  the frontline kind to the front facing customer kind of what's happening.
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  Right?
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  So it's so important that transparency is done in such a a way, you know, and and then, like,
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  communication is there's so much to communication that we could talk probably to
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  ours about that.
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  That if the CEO or the new person coming in is blocked off, we might be mistrusting of him or
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  her just because we just can't read them.
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  Yeah.
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  You have to be authentic, in my opinion, and and in many respects.
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  I mean, we talk about this a lot in the speaking industry.
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  And that is you need to be in the moment.
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  You need to be authentic.
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  You need to be transparent.
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  But I don't think it's peculiar to the to the speaking industry or the training industry.
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  It's just that in in our industry, we're on stage, literally.
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  And so people are looking at us and and expect have certain expectations.
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  And if we're different off stage than we are on stage, then we're not we're not accepted and
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  we're not believed.
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  And so I think in terms of of leaders in other kinds of industries.
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  People know when when things are not quite, transparent or not quite authentic, and they
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  talk about it.
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  They talk about it going up and down the hall or in the break room or out in the parking lot,
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  whatever it is, and they're always talking about one of 2 things, usually.
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  You wouldn't believe what they did to me today and how stupid corporate is, right, or wouldn't
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  believe what I did today.
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  I love my job.
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  And there's very little gray area in there.
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  And so the people that love their jobs and allow themselves to to excel and do things is
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  caused the people in my opinion anyway.
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  The people at the top are authentic enough and transparent enough that they know that they can
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  they can do certain things, and they have a certain level of empowerment, whether anybody
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  ever said I'm in powering you to do this or not.
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  And and so it makes communication up and down and sideways and and all the different
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  directions work better.
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  But, you know, when you think about, traditional going back years ago to to like
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  senior executives or CEOs, that constant that concept that they have to be autocratic, they
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  have to be in control.
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  You know, we can't see any cracks.
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  You know, they have to deliver.
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  They have to be like enamel.
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  And now we're seeing kind of the opposite, like what you're saying about this, you know, about
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  really having people experience you as a person.
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  Yes.
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  You have a job to do.
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  Yes.
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  You have certain difficult decisions to make.
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  Yes.
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  You're gonna have to you know, you know, do X Y Z to create a change.
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  Compared to years ago, you couldn't, you know, I'm thinking of some of my first jobs with I
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  mean, I I I think of some of the questionable at best CEOs that are senior executives that
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  I've worked for.
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  And they're some of them were horrendous.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  You know, compared to today where we're saying, you know, there has to be really re relatable.
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  You have to know, you know, something extra, not about everybody, if you have a lot of
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  direct reports, but you have to be able to relate at some level
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  Yeah.
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  I I I worked with a CEO at one point who was very much in in his ivory tower.
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  And yet he thought he was a a man of the people because he had these, I forget how often, but
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  periodically he had weekends, where a group of his his management people would would go for a
• 24:53
  couple of days, and I was involved in the couple of days.
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  And he would come in on the last day and have breakfast It was a very big thing.
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  If you weren't there before he got there, then it was, you know, you probably wouldn't have a
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  job when you got back to the, to the office.
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  And and it was all very structured.
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  And then he, of course, he had questions.
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  Well, the questions were given to them on cards.
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  As they walked in the door.
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  So everybody knew what the questions were.
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  And obviously, he did because he wrote them or somebody he he at least passed judgment on him.
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  And and then his big deal was, well, you know, we're gonna throw the speech ball around and
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  and and I'll throw it and then you ask your question and I'll answer it and then you throw
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  it to somebody else and all of that.
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  And that's not There's nothing wrong with throwing a beach ball around to get questions
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  asked, but the problem was they weren't their questions.
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  They were his questions that they were asking him because he didn't feel like for whatever
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  reason that he could or wanted to share anything off the cuff or spontaneously it all
• 26:05
  had to be very, very structured.
• 26:07
  And so people left that weekend saying, hey.
• 26:10
  We enjoyed what we did with you, but, you know, The rest of it was just a game, and it wasn't a
• 26:18
  very fun game.
• 26:19
  So I I'm very encouraged that more and more of, people in in senior leadership positions,
• 26:29
  regardless of their title, are are much more open and much more transparent than they,
• 26:36
  certainly than they used to be 30 years ago.
• 26:39
  And that's good, but it's a it's a struggle sometimes because we emulate how we came up in
• 26:49
  business with with the role models or the the the people that we we reported to and some of
• 26:57
  them, didn't have very good habits.
• 27:00
  Right.
• 27:00
  They may have gotten things done, and people's limbs maybe had falling off around them.
• 27:05
  But they but they got things done quite literally.
• 27:07
  You know, so, you know, I I really appreciate that when you see a senior leader that is
• 27:14
  connected, they they may have had to do a lot of work because I don't know if you have a
• 27:18
  perspective on this, Susan, but Sometimes at the senior level, they're, potentially, would
• 27:25
  you say a lot of time, anti personalities, They're pretty structured.
• 27:30
  You know, they've been hired, for certain things.
• 27:33
  So the tactical end of business, they're very, very good at And sometimes maybe not so much on
• 27:39
  the on the other ends, which is what you're talking to the heart center of the ocean.
• 27:43
  I I absolutely agree, and I think we we're we we're sort of it's interesting because we've
• 27:49
  sort of gone from from totally autocratic.
• 27:53
  I mean, every senior leader was do it my way or the highway kind of thing.
• 27:58
  Right.
• 27:58
  Right.
• 27:59
  On generalizing, but nonetheless.
• 28:02
  And then more open and more authentic and more transparent.
• 28:07
  But now with technology, then we don't see each other directly or I mean, yeah, we have zoom as
• 28:15
  we're using today, and we have Skype and we have FaceTime and and some of those things.
• 28:20
  But in terms of a collegial kind of camaraderie day in and day out.
• 28:27
  Many people work from home or or they they they're on the road a lot.
• 28:32
  Those kinds of things.
• 28:34
  And so that that interpersonal relationships are now, you know, coming not I don't know if
• 28:44
  they're going all the way back to total autocratic, but but the The problem is people
• 28:50
  aren't there to communicate with on a on a one on one.
• 28:53
  So the clues that you get by by listening to a tone of voice by by looking at body language
• 29:02
  and all the other kind of silent communication tools that that we have aren't there.
• 29:11
  And even with Zoom, I mean, you can see me from here up pretty much.
• 29:15
  And if I put my hands up here, then you can't see my head.
• 29:18
  So and that's fine for you and me and for doing a a podcast like this, but but on a day to day
• 29:27
  work related interaction, it leaves a great deal to be desired.
• 29:33
  And so I think there's, you know, we're still struggling with that.
• 29:37
  Where are we gonna land?
• 29:39
  Are we gonna go all the way back to the way it used to be?
• 29:42
  And just be worried about bottom line results.
• 29:45
  And and I don't think that that the younger folks in the in the workplace will stand for
• 29:52
  that.
• 29:53
  I mean, they'll leave and go someplace else.
• 29:54
  They have no sense of loyalty, and that's fine.
• 29:57
  I get it.
• 29:58
  But, you know, given my checkered past, I can't I can't call too many people.
• 30:05
  That that's wrong, but but the reality is that that we can't all work from home all the time
• 30:11
  either.
• 30:12
  Somebody has to to watch the store so to speak.
• 30:15
  So there's there's still some hard work to be done by everybody not just not just senior
• 30:23
  management, but
• 30:25
  but I remember I remember the one that was a shift.
• 30:27
  I was, a consultant, a health and wellness consultant, and It worked well because I had a
• 30:33
  young son and, they had just started to go virtual, and I was one of the first executives.
• 30:39
  They they said, you know, this we're talking you know, 19 years ago now to date myself.
• 30:45
  And they said, oh, you can, you know, you can go see your clients.
• 30:48
  You can have a a, you know, you could come into corporate, but when we have specific meetings,
• 30:53
  I remember there was one meeting that, generally all the other executives will attend.
• 30:59
  And I hear I show up, you know, go from Niagara to Toronto, which is where my office was, and
• 31:04
  I'm in the boardroom.
• 31:06
  And I'm I'm nurturing there.
• 31:07
  There's a handful of people, and I'm like, well, where is everybody?
• 31:10
  And somebody's looked at me, and they said, well, why are you here?
• 31:13
  And I said, well, I'm here for the meeting.
• 31:14
  And I said, oh, you don't need to be here.
• 31:16
  You can go back to your desk.
• 31:20
  Right?
• 31:20
  So that shows you taking it so much to an extreme.
• 31:23
  Yeah.
• 31:24
  Right?
• 31:24
  So my thing is I still want I need it for myself to connect
• 31:28
  Yeah.
• 31:29
  But there were people in the building that was to be at the same meetings that chose to sit
• 31:33
  sit at their desk.
• 31:36
  Well, I I, of course, I'm a people person.
• 31:39
  So for me, I I much prefer face to face.
• 31:44
  I much prefer having an interchange of of, ideas and sharing and brainstorming and
• 31:52
  whatever whatever else If it's just gonna be an information dump, that's a whole different
• 31:57
  conversation.
• 31:58
  And, yeah, send me a send me an email, send me a piece of paper even if you, you know, don't
• 32:05
  wanna do, but whatever.
• 32:06
  And I can get the information.
• 32:09
  But if you want my my thoughts and if we wanna build on each other's thoughts and share ideas
• 32:16
  and and move forward from a more creative perspective than in my opinion, the gospel
• 32:24
  according to Susan, I think we have to meet at least somewhat periodically, together in order
• 32:35
  to to have the benefits of both both sides of that equation.
• 32:39
  We have we use technology in in many respects and that saves time and it's sufficient and and
• 32:46
  we can do it over across oceans and all that kind of stuff, and that's great.
• 32:52
  But the other side of that same coin is that if we don't periodically sit down in a room with
• 32:59
  each other and say a, b, and c.
• 33:03
  And, oh, no.
• 33:04
  No.
• 33:04
  I thought I thought we were gonna do d, e, and f or, you know, whatever it is, and come to
• 33:09
  some understanding based not only on the words that we say, but on the ideas and the concepts
• 33:15
  of that we generate and the the voice that we use and how involved we are in the interchange.
• 33:22
  I think we're cheating ourselves.
• 33:24
  We're cheating our businesses.
• 33:25
  And we're certainly cheating our clients and customers.
• 33:29
  Which I think is becoming more probably an issue that you're seeing with companies all
• 33:34
  over the world now.
• 33:35
  Right?
• 33:35
  Like, I mean, we used to do east to west coast and the same with the US, but now you're
• 33:39
  talking that you've been you go to international companies where I'm gonna assume
• 33:43
  they have companies all over Europe and into North America.
• 33:47
  And if we're saying that that model is something it's it's practical, And so I should
• 33:52
  say convenient, but is it practical when you look at the overall kind of, synergy for the
• 33:58
  company?
• 33:58
  I don't think one size fits all.
• 34:00
  That's That's the thing.
• 34:02
  I think I think it's that part that that technology part certainly has a place, and it
• 34:07
  allows us to gather information and to share information in a very efficient way and all of
• 34:14
  that.
• 34:15
  It allows us to have a conversation, spur of the moment if we need to because of an
• 34:22
  emergency or a crisis or whatever.
• 34:25
  But at some point, if if I used to work for a guy that was very proud of the fact, that he
• 34:35
  never ever in when he'd been in business for, like, 20 years, and I I hadn't I worked as a
• 34:42
  consultant with him, so I wasn't really his employee, but he'd never ever want to have a
• 34:48
  staff meeting ever, and he's very proud of that.
• 34:51
  Oh, wow.
• 34:52
  I was like, seriously.
• 34:54
  And he said, oh, we don't have time for that.
• 34:57
  And I said, he said, everybody's always gone anyway.
• 35:00
  And I said, well, there's you know, there's Skype, there's Zoom, there's this, there's hat,
• 35:04
  whatever.
• 35:05
  And nope.
• 35:06
  Nope.
• 35:06
  We don't need it.
• 35:07
  Look at how much money we make.
• 35:09
  It's like Okay.
• 35:13
  So the the bottom line was nobody really I knew him because I'd known him for years in a in a
• 35:19
  previous life, so to speak.
• 35:22
  And so if I picked up the phone or or went into where he was, I didn't have any problems
• 35:30
  sitting down and and telling him what I thought about things, but a lot of people didn't know
• 35:35
  it that well.
• 35:36
  And some people have never met him.
• 35:38
  And, it was just it was a real strange way to run a business.
• 35:45
  I'll just put it that way.
• 35:47
  And he never did change.
• 35:48
  Never.
• 35:49
  So it depends on the the leader also.
• 35:51
  Right?
• 35:51
  Like, I mean, you could still be making money.
• 35:53
  And like I said, have low low morale or stuff like that.
• 35:56
  But again, the question becomes how long is that sustainable if it's, you know, in this in
• 36:01
  this economy, this, you know, high paced economy that we're going?
• 36:05
  Well, and and in a in time when loyalty to a particular organization is not necessarily
• 36:11
  guaranteed.
• 36:12
  So if I mean, I, you know, I I've known people my son included, who you know, they only work
• 36:23
  maybe 2 or 3 years in a in one place, and then they they leave and go get another job.
• 36:29
  They never have any fear about not not having work, which I find refreshing.
• 36:35
  And absolutely horrifies me sometimes because I'm a product of a different generation, but
• 36:42
  the reality is that For them, it's kind of like, you know, well, like me in terms of how
• 36:50
  how much I moved around in my and how many times I packed and unpacked and did all those
• 36:57
  things.
• 36:57
  And that didn't seem strange to me.
• 37:00
  And in the same way, moving from one company to another, one city to another, whatever, one
• 37:05
  country to another, is not is not something that people are as uncomfortable with as as
• 37:14
  they were even 20, 30 years in
• 37:18
  you're for sure.
• 37:20
  So when you when companies are in, the companies that you work with, I'm gonna assume
• 37:26
  that when they're wanting to work on storytelling and communication, you're gonna
• 37:31
  have more of a a knowledgeable, senior team that's wanting you to do that, or do they
• 37:39
  bringing you in in when there's a bit of a crisis or mergers, acquisitions.
• 37:44
  Oh, I think it it it depends on the industry quite frankly.
• 37:47
  And I'm not trying to evade the question, but, I mean, the reality is I've I've I've been
• 37:54
  involved at at all those different times.
• 37:57
  And typically, what they're all looking for is a better way to understand each other.
• 38:06
  They may not be able to verbalize that.
• 38:08
  They may call it something else But once we have some conversation and I ask them certain
• 38:16
  questions about their organization, and how they do business and whatever else.
• 38:22
  What I what I've come to realize is that the the the difficult part for most companies is
• 38:29
  people don't communicate well.
• 38:34
  And that can mean a lot of different things, but because they don't communicate well, they
• 38:37
  don't meet deadlines, they behave inappropriately.
• 38:41
  They they're not efficient with their time.
• 38:44
  They they don't respond quickly, or they don't respond at all.
• 38:51
  You know, those kinds of things, and it's just because they they don't they don't think about
• 38:56
  how to communicate or how how a younger a person newer to the workplace.
• 39:04
  I'll put it that way.
• 39:05
  They don't have to be young, but a person new to the workplace.
• 39:10
  Sometimes it doesn't understand or doesn't know all the different opportunity or options
• 39:17
  available to them.
• 39:18
  To communicate with people that are in at a different level in the organization.
• 39:23
  So some things get miscommunicated, or not communicated at all.
• 39:29
  And sometimes there's not a crisis and sometimes there is depending on how long that's
• 39:35
  gone on and on.
• 39:37
  But, I found it interesting that that once I have enough conversation with the senior level
• 39:47
  folks that they often then asked me to to work with the more I hate the term entry level, but
• 39:57
  the the folks that that are doing the the faith that that are actually the face of the
• 40:02
  organization.
• 40:03
  I mean, they're dealing with the clients and the customers face to face, and I don't care
• 40:07
  what you call them and what industry they're in.
• 40:10
  And and they don't have a lot of work experience.
• 40:13
  They don't have a lot of life experience, some of them.
• 40:16
  And so they they think, well, let's do the story thing with them because maybe the and I
• 40:23
  said, well, it's gonna start from you guys.
• 40:25
  And guys is a inclusive term, and they don't have to all be guys, but but, you know, so if
• 40:32
  they if they see you demonstrating and exhibiting how to communicate more effectively
• 40:39
  and willing enough and transparent enough to share things about your your path, your
• 40:46
  journey.
• 40:47
  How did you get here?
• 40:48
  What did you have to give up?
• 40:49
  What did it do to your family?
• 40:51
  What did it do to your relationships, all those kinds of things?
• 40:54
  And I don't mean to, you know, lie on the couch and tell them your life story kind of thing,
• 40:59
  but But enough of that that they understand that, hey.
• 41:03
  This is a real person.
• 41:05
  And they can maybe I can learn something from them.
• 41:08
  I sure don't wanna do what he just told me or what she just told me.
• 41:11
  I'm gonna do it differently because it didn't work out so well for them, but they would never
• 41:16
  know that.
• 41:18
  Unless somebody actually shared that experience.
• 41:21
  So it works both ways.
• 41:23
  And they often say that people leave jobs because of know, because of the, you know, the
• 41:27
  bad management above them.
• 41:29
  Right?
• 41:29
  Like, so if, you know, even if I don't like the job, but I like my manager and I will you'll
• 41:33
  hear that my consulting, you'll hear people saying that.
• 41:35
  I loved, you know, I loved my managers, so I have to on, even though the culture may not
• 41:40
  have been the best, but I got respect from that person.
• 41:43
  The person gave me that latitude.
• 41:46
  They gave me that functional authority within my lane, and I knew what I could do.
• 41:50
  I can go back with suggestions, all those things, you know, and they would
• 41:54
  collaboratively work with me when something was going on versus dictating to me.
• 41:59
  Kinda this is the way it's done and, you know, those types of things.
• 42:02
  So it's really about that.
• 42:03
  You're right.
• 42:04
  Again, it's that synergy, and I wanna do well for the person above me.
• 42:08
  There's a, a friend of mine, a speaker out of, Orlando who, who started out primarily as a as
• 42:15
  an IT guy.
• 42:17
  And he he had he was an early adapter to or adapter, whichever the word is.
• 42:22
  A communication specialist I should know.
• 42:25
  Oh, well.
• 42:26
  But but of all the the bells and whistles, all the toys, you know, of of all the different
• 42:31
  things that you could you could have from from an iPhone all the way to whatever.
• 42:36
  And yet he changed over time in in his in his thinking and in his way of presenting and and
• 42:45
  consulting with clients because he used to talk about e commerce.
• 42:50
  And and now he says it's not about e commerce.
• 42:53
  It's about our commerce, relationship commerce, We don't have the right kinds of relationships
• 43:01
  within our organization and the right kinds of communication tools to foster those kinds of
• 43:08
  relationships, then the the bottom line has been a suffer.
• 43:13
  And it may not suffer immediately, but but Eventually, it's gonna suffer because nobody's
• 43:19
  understanding each other.
• 43:20
  We're miscommunicating at whatever level.
• 43:23
  You found that that's different culturally, or do you find that that's the same all all, like
• 43:29
  you with all the continents that you've worked on, is that difference with relationships?
• 43:35
  No.
• 43:36
  I I really don't think so.
• 43:39
  There there are some nuances certainly because of some cultural things, and and I haven't
• 43:44
  worked a lot in the Middle East, but I did some work in the Middle East So there's some certain
• 43:50
  things that, especially as a woman, they they wouldn't, you know, necessarily believe what I
• 43:56
  said or believe what any other woman that happened to work in their organization said
• 44:00
  because of the the the way they were they grew up in the culture in which they they grew up
• 44:07
  in, but the bottom line was still the same.
• 44:11
  They weren't they weren't communicating on the same wavelength.
• 44:16
  And, and, and I have not found Regardless of the culture, regardless of the language that is
• 44:24
  the first language or or whatever, and regardless of the industry.
• 44:30
  When you get down to the the very nuts and bolts of what's going on, it's usually a
• 44:39
  communication issue, and it's either something that's been miscommunicated, misunderstood,
• 44:46
  totally not communicated or understood.
• 44:49
  You know, there's different different levels, but once Once people start talking to each
• 44:55
  other, I mean, really talking and listening, then It works.
• 45:04
  But it's hard.
• 45:05
  It's hard work because people don't like to listen.
• 45:08
  Some people don't like to talk.
• 45:10
  Some of us like to talk too much.
• 45:13
  So, you know, I'll, like, all the speakers we know.
• 45:16
  That would be neat.
• 45:17
  But, I I really believe and and and I I can only speak from my own experience, but it's
• 45:24
  been pretty, pretty broad.
• 45:26
  And I've been very fortunate and very privileged to, to work with a lot of different
• 45:30
  kinds of cultures and, and a lot of different folks in, in a variety of different industries.
• 45:36
  And, you know, it's just like, it's just like, when, you know, you're I'd go back to my
• 45:42
  airplane, days, but but when you're when you're stuck in an airport and your flight's delayed
• 45:52
  canceled and or whatever, and the weather's bad, and there's people sitting on the floor
• 45:57
  and in the seats and hayes and the rafters and yelling and screaming at each other and all
• 46:02
  those kinds of things.
• 46:04
  And if you just sort of sit back and watch for a little bit, and you can see where if somebody
• 46:10
  just said something a little bit differently or stopped yelling long enough to listen to what
• 46:17
  somebody else said, then the results were like magic almost.
• 46:23
  But my my favorite and it's actually in a book somewhere, but I was actually there, and this
• 46:30
  was a Southwest Airlines flight and I was waiting for my flight out of Houston to some
• 46:38
  place and there the terminal that I was in had 8 gates and it was in a, like, a a circle, kind
• 46:45
  of, semi circle at the end of the terminal.
• 46:49
  So if if somebody was particularly loud, you could be sitting on one side of those eight
• 46:54
  gates and hear somebody clear on the other side of the circle.
• 46:58
  And so there was a gentleman that was standing at the at the counter trying to to He wanted a
• 47:07
  seat assignment and, of course, Southwest Airlines doesn't assign seats.
• 47:12
  And so the young lady who, I mean, she looked like she was twelve, but I'm sure she was, you
• 47:17
  know, that's just because I'm old.
• 47:18
  Everybody looks like they're twelve.
• 47:20
  But but she was she was trying really, really hard to be kind and gentle and soft spoken and
• 47:28
  not get upset.
• 47:30
  And he just kept getting more and more upset, and she kept saying, sir, I I can't assign you
• 47:35
  a seat.
• 47:35
  We don't assign anybody seats.
• 47:38
  And, you know, there's people in line behind you And all I can tell you is you need to get
• 47:43
  in line because when we open the doors, everybody sort of goes in at once, and it's
• 47:48
  first come first serve.
• 47:50
  And she said that in a variety of different ways multiple times.
• 47:54
  And finally, he was just so obviously not listening to her and had never apparently even
• 48:01
  heard of Southwest Airlines.
• 48:03
  And he drew himself up and he said, don't you know who I am?
• 48:10
  And the whole terminal just was like, and he and the young lady picked up her microphone,
• 48:17
  and she said, ladies and gentlemen, Can anyone identify the man at Gate, whatever it was?
• 48:23
  He seems to have lost his identity.
• 48:26
  And we all just died.
• 48:29
  The whole man just sort of wandered off.
• 48:33
  I don't know.
• 48:34
  The entire place was clapping.
• 48:37
  And because everybody this has been going on for 10 minutes.
• 48:41
  And finally, she I was I was really please, because she wasn't rude.
• 48:47
  She was it was just funny.
• 48:49
  And and he, I think, when everybody else in the whole terminal was laughing and and clapping.
• 48:55
  He just sort of wandered off, but, you know, he could have saved himself 10 minutes of grief
• 49:03
  and certainly of whatever perceived embarrassment he he may have had at the end all
• 49:09
  because he didn't he didn't stop complaining long enough to listen to what she was gonna
• 49:16
  say.
• 49:17
  And so her her final recourse was just it, you know, be funny.
• 49:22
  And, and, and it worked, and the rest of the people were just thrilled because they're And
• 49:28
  then business reasons as usual, I don't know where the man went.
• 49:31
  And I actually read it in a book a year or 2 after that act happened.
• 49:35
  And I go, I was angry with even my book.
• 49:39
  And, so, anyway, it's but, you know, you don't have to be in business.
• 49:43
  I guess is what I'm trying to say.
• 49:45
  No.
• 49:45
  Of course.
• 49:45
  And it's it's all the difficulties that we go through.
• 49:48
  Right?
• 49:48
  We all go through difficulties.
• 49:50
  Like, I was going through a situation and there was a and I was caught up and it's, you know,
• 49:55
  obviously at my level and the, you know, the person above me, and I was it was a tough time
• 50:01
  for everybody, and it wasn't well done.
• 50:04
  And my direct report, she she was not nice to anyone.
• 50:09
  You know, because of her stress level.
• 50:12
  And then I, you know, was severed and given a package and all that stuff and And then later
• 50:18
  on, you know, didn't think too well of her, obviously, because, you know, she hadn't
• 50:23
  treated anybody well.
• 50:25
  And, then ran into her probably a couple years later and, you know, thought, okay.
• 50:29
  I I'll I'll I'll kinda keep my distance and then you know, she approached me and apologized
• 50:36
  because she had been under such immense stress and could barely keep her head above the water.
• 50:43
  So you already get that.
• 50:44
  If if if she had just stopped and said to us and the team, you know, I am losing my marbles
• 50:52
  too.
• 50:52
  So how about we lose our marbles together Yeah.
• 50:55
  And try to figure out how to weed through the storm That would have been that would have been
• 51:00
  such a nice connecting element because there was nobody on the team not under complete
• 51:04
  arrest.
• 51:05
  Yeah.
• 51:05
  Oh, sure.
• 51:06
  Well, I think mergers are are especially difficult in having been through one myself and
• 51:13
  where I was the the primary person and and then worked with other companies in in terms of
• 51:20
  theirs.
• 51:21
  And the ones that succeed that I've been part of, are the ones that that do a whole
• 51:29
  assessment of the culture from each of the the organizations to see what they need to do to
• 51:39
  mix and match and and and actually integrate each other's culture corporate cultures
• 51:45
  together before they ever think about you're gonna be let go or you're you're gonna stay or,
• 51:52
  you know, we're gonna trim this many people off the, you know, as employees or whatever it is.
• 51:59
  And and when they do that, it's not a guarantee, but it certainly goes a long way
• 52:05
  towards making it a much easier, process to go through.
• 52:12
  And, but but most organizations don't do
• 52:16
  Unfortunately, most of them don't do it, and I think you're right.
• 52:19
  The cultural part of it is, and then, of course, what are what state are people in?
• 52:24
  They're in a state of fear.
• 52:25
  And then we know there's duplication on both ends when there's 2 complimentary con companies
• 52:30
  coming together.
• 52:31
  And because they're not communicating what happens, you know, the stress level and the
• 52:35
  fear goes up.
• 52:36
  And then you're not staying logical at that point and people start kind of, you know,
• 52:42
  bickering at each other and and creating all these, you know, scenarios.
• 52:46
  Yeah.
• 52:46
  It's interesting that that that when when people are expecting because of previous
• 52:54
  experiences or whatever that they're gonna be fired or let go.
• 52:57
  They make that assumption because we always we love to expect the worst, apparently, rather
• 53:04
  than the best.
• 53:05
  And and and we don't give anybody a chance to even explain something.
• 53:10
  Now that's not to say that everybody would, but certainly we we, you know, the the the story
• 53:18
  that I I shared at the beginning about this, the guy that they imported from Australia.
• 53:23
  If he had told any other story Other than what he had done with the people at that particular
• 53:31
  location in Australia that was in a similar situation to the one where he was in Georgia
• 53:39
  now.
• 53:41
  I don't think it will work, but because they related to that, then they were they were
• 53:47
  interested in, hey.
• 53:48
  How is this?
• 53:49
  And and he ended with the questions.
• 53:51
  So what can we learn from this?
• 53:53
  How can we do things differently to ensure that this happens well here and this, and then we
• 54:01
  don't, you know, have to go into bankruptcy or get sold again or whatever it was.
• 54:06
  And and because they heard his story and how he had reacted to it and what people had done and
• 54:11
  how they'd work together, then they were willing to try to do that and give him a bigger
• 54:20
  space in which to communicate and for them to listen more tentatively.
• 54:25
  So I think it happens.
• 54:26
  I mean, we've sort of come full circle here, but I think it it, you know, when you're
• 54:31
  authentic, and when you're transparent and when you're not afraid, a lot of people, even at the
• 54:39
  highest levels, are so insecure in their own positions for whatever reason whether real or
• 54:46
  imagined that they don't they don't know how to to handle that kind of a situation to help
• 54:55
  other people get through it.
• 54:57
  And sometimes it's just as simple as saying, what do you think?
• 55:02
  Right.
• 55:03
  Or just or like I said, joining and saying, you know, this is mucky for everybody here, and I
• 55:08
  know that I, you know, I've been, you know, probably not as communicative or whatever.
• 55:14
  So forgive me if I've not been, what's going on for you is a different inroads to, you know,
• 55:21
  you know, to kind of putting the person they're reporting to down or talking about what's not
• 55:27
  going well.
• 55:27
  That's, you know, I'll say it's a 3 to 1 positive positive positive, then we go what's
• 55:33
  not working so well versus what's not so working well.
• 55:36
  And then you go into the, you know, the positives, then you're you're that person's
• 55:39
  stress response is already through the roof, and they're no longer thing.
• 55:43
  Yeah.
• 55:43
  And then, you know, it kind of goes away from there.
• 55:45
  Yeah.
• 55:46
  Well, there's no I don't think there's one easy answer for every organization.
• 55:52
  I mean, one that works one time with one organization won't necessarily work with
• 55:57
  another, but the the part that that because I've had the kinds of experiences I've had and
• 56:06
  the number of experiences that I've had, it's I won't say it's easy, but it's easier for
• 56:13
  somebody like me to help in a in a situation like that.
• 56:17
  Because I've I've bring those kinds of experiences to the table.
• 56:22
  Not that I was necessarily involved as an employee in any of those situations, but I was
• 56:30
  involved on the fringes as a as a consultant, as a coach, as a trainer, as a as a a resource
• 56:36
  person to to help them through a difficult time or to give them tips or techniques or
• 56:43
  methodologies, whatever fancy label you wanna put on it to be authentic and transparent and
• 56:51
  to treat people like like people.
• 56:55
  Well, and, you know, we could not have been ending on a better note because I think if we
• 57:00
  just would treat people like people you know, and be respectful and kind and, you know, when
• 57:06
  you're know, when your things aren't going so well for you, maybe you're not a 100 and let
• 57:10
  them know that you're doing your best with what you got in that pocket of yours.
• 57:14
  People kinda say, yeah.
• 57:16
  Yeah.
• 57:16
  I can see it.
• 57:17
  I can see what if I'm feeling like this, I could imagine the pressure that you're getting
• 57:21
  from above.
• 57:22
  And then then you have buy in because it not, you know, they they can trust you and go back
• 57:27
  to knowing what you've demonstrated.
• 57:29
  Right?
• 57:30
  And at the end of the day, yeah,
• 57:32
  You have to be vulnerable enough or let your let your vulnerabilities show, I guess, is the
• 57:37
  best way to say that.
• 57:38
  And that's hard.
• 57:39
  That's hard for a lot of people because it is.
• 57:42
  They didn't grow up that way, or they didn't have that kind of a family.
• 57:45
  I mean, I came from my family where everybody wore their feelings, their heart on their
• 57:50
  sleeves and, you know, it was it was very emotional sometimes, but it worked for us.
• 57:55
  And So so for somebody like me, it's easier to do.
• 58:00
  But I I'm not I'm not, Stupid enough to say just because I it it was easy for me because of
• 58:09
  the way I grew up doesn't mean it's gonna be easy for you, and I get that.
• 58:13
  Yes.
• 58:13
  For sure.
• 58:15
  Well, Susan, as usual, this has been another great interview.
• 58:19
  So I'm so glad that we could, we could get together again and and talk about this.
• 58:24
  I appreciate it so much.
• 58:26
  And, thank you for asking me and for giving me a chance and babble on and on.
• 58:32
  I love your babble.
• 58:33
  You can do this again once a month.
• 58:35
  So what I want you to know is just where, you know, if there's any organizations that be
• 58:40
  interested in your, you know, your communication and and storytelling, you know,
• 58:47
  coaching speaking, trainings where where can they get a hold of you?
• 58:51
  You can call me at 888 228-1738.
• 59:00
  And then that's my office phone number.
• 59:04
  So if I'm not available, then then you'll get a voicemail.
• 59:07
  You can also email me susanat susanlukeevans.com.
• 59:15
  It's a bit much, but there it is.
• 59:18
  And, that's my website as well.
• 59:20
  Susanlukeevans.com.
• 59:22
  So feel free to even if it's just a question, yes, I would love to work with people, and I
• 59:28
  would love for them to all want to hire me, but but the reality is if you just have a question
• 59:33
  or or want a more clarification, I'm happy to chat.
• 59:38
  Well, thank you.
• 59:39
  You're always so gracious with your time.
• 59:41
  So with everyone listening, I guess we go back to some of the basic things that I often refer
• 59:46
  to as just, Be real.
• 59:49
  You know, recognize what you're going through.
• 59:51
  Try to think about what the other person's going through.
• 59:55
  And at sometimes you might be the role model for the leader above you.
• 59:58
  It may be that it takes a bit of patience on your end and know that you know, you're
• 1:00:03
  striving to to do the best that you can.
• 1:00:05
  Understand your stress response.
• 1:00:07
  What happens to you when you communicate or don't communicate well and then try to think
• 1:00:12
  about what is it that the other person might be going through.
• 1:00:15
  And the better that you get at communicating, I often say all we have control is over ourselves
• 1:00:20
  and that we can hopefully impact the people around us.
• 1:00:23
  So, again, thanks so much for tuning in to, spend some time with Susan and I.
• 1:00:28
  And if you're needing more information on me, keynote speaking training, or coaching, I can
• 1:00:34
  be reached at Roxanne Derhodge dotcom.
• 1:00:37
  Okay, everyone.
• 1:00:38
  Take care.
• 1:00:39
  We'll talk to you soon.
• 1:00:40
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne creating the space for positive,
• 1:00:45
  healthy change.
• 1:00:47
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit rock
• 1:00:53
  anddurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 1:00:57
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.