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HondurasGate: Leaks Reveal Right-Wing Plot to Dismantle Latin American Left · The Real News Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Oh it is.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Here are four presidents, one prime minister, a vice president,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: and a host of Republicans all involved in this. If
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: you include Trump, there's four presidents.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: He allah president.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean this is a pretty big deal.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: It's for our generation. It's probably one of the biggest
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: scandals political, geopolitical scandals of our time in our region.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: And what they're doing there and mimics like what they're
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: doing to us here by taking our rights and trying
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: to force a right wing government, you know, by jerry
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: mandering districts, enforcing Republican wins, and it's about exerting far
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: right dominion of all of us, you know, here in
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: the US and in Latin America.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: On the morning of April thirtieth, the Spanish website Diario
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Red and the television channel Canarred began to release a
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: series of leaked audio recordings between powerful right wing figures
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: in the Americas. They called it Honduras.
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: Gait there when I start of it in Tallu.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: By May sixth, the outlets had released a total of
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: thirty seven WhatsApp, signal and telegram messages. What they reveal
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: is a shocking network pushing to destabilize elections and undermine
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: leftist leaders in the region. It's one of the biggest
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: political scandals in the Americas in years, and it implicates
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration, Israel, Argentina's libertarian president, a load of
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: right wing hunter and officials, and many more in underhanded
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: activities to take down political opponents, with thousands of dollars
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: funneled into a right wing propaganda outlet allegedly located in
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the United States. The messages have been independently verified twice,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: confirming that they are not AI generated, and you likely
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: heard little if nothing about them. Today, I'm going to
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: take you on a deep dive into the leaks to
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: understand what they are, what's at stake, and why they're
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: so concerning amid Trump's onslaught of threats and attacks against
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: leaders in the region that in a minute. This is
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Under the Shadow an investigative narrative podcast series that looks
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: at the role of the United States abroad in the
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: past and the very present. This podcast is a co
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: production in partnership with The Real News a Nakla. I'm
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: your host Michael Fox, longtime radio reporter, editor, journalist, the
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: producer and host of the podcasts Brazil on Fire and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: stories of resistance. I've spent the better part of the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: last twenty years in Latin America. I've seen firsthand the
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: role of the US government abroad, and most often sadly,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: it is not for the better. Invasions, coups, sanctions, support
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: for authoritarian regimes. Politically and economically, the United States has
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: cast a long shadow over Latin America for the past
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: two hundred years. It still does. This is season two
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: of Under the Shadow, Trump's Attack, Episode eleven, Hondurascate. So
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I want to begin with a little thought experiment. Imagine
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: for a second that leaked audio messages revealed that numerous
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: top Republican lawmakers had colluded to create a fake news
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: outlet to tank the reputation of leading Democrats in the
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: United States and influence their state's elections. Imagine these lawmakers
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: talked about taking out, removing from office, or even killing
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: their political opponents, and about using violence the silence opposition.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Now imagine that the leader of this cabal was a
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: convicted drug trafficker sentenced in US courts to forty five
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: years in prison, who Trump pardoned late last year with
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: instrumental lobbing from Israel. And that Israel was interested in
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: supporting the whole schemes, these stabilization plans. That is the
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: gist of the Honduras Gate leaks. But instead of communications
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: between Republican lawmakers, these leaks are audio chats between leading
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: right wing politicians in Honduras. Although let's be clear, Republican
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: lawmakers are also mentioned. The implications are global. The figures
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: behind these conversations aren't just trying to influence local or
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: state elections. They discuss producing journalistic hit jobs on the
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: leftist presidents of Colombia, Mexico and the former presidents in Honduras.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: The people targeted in these messages, Gustavo Petro, Claudio scheinbam Maneoiselai,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: and sum Mara Castro are some of the most vocal
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: leftist leaders standing up against Trump's attacks on Latin America
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: and the right wing wave that's spilled over Central and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: South America. And in the leaks, these right wing Honduran
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: politicians talk about using real violence against resistance. Now, before
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I dive further into the details, I want to give
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: you the backstory because so many of these leaks revolve
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: around former Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernandez and Is pushed
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: to now return to power in Honduras. We covered his
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: authoritarian government and the resistance against him in the first
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: season of Under the Shadow, but here's a recap. Remember
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Orlando Ernandez is a right wing politician who ran the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: country's National Assembly in the wake of the two thousand
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and nine US backed coup against leftist president Manuel Selaya.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: He then served as president from twenty fourteen through twenty
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: twenty two, during which time he won an illegal and
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: fraudulent reelection in twenty seventeen to stay in power.
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: Twenty seventeen rolls around kuanner landon Nandis decides he's going
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: to run for reelection and a legal election because the
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: hunter in constitution forbids or did forbade second terms in office.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I spoke with Karen Spring, the co coordinator of the
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Hunduras Solidarity Network, in twenty twenty four, shortly after Ernandez
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: was sentenced to forty five years in prison for drug trafficking.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: She covered the trial and re released our conversation as
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: a bonus episode in the first series. Here are just
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a few important snippets of our conversation because they helped
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: us set the scene for understanding Hundura's gate and.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: So the United States had an opportunity to pull their
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: support and say no, no, no, no, no, like this is
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: not this is not a legitimate election. But they went ahead.
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: They didn't say anything. They let him run for election.
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: And then in the election itself there was massive electoral
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: fraud that was even called out by you know, the
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: Organization of American States, which is not known to be
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: a progressive you know, it's you know, a pro whue
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: institution at best. And even the OAS said, you know
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: what this is, it's too hard to determine if these
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: results are legitimate in these in these elections, maybe there
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: should be new elections in Honduras. And so again the
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: United States had an opportunity to pull the plug and
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: say no, we're not going to support waterer Lenderonndez. But
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: they just kept supporting him, and they basically certified the
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: electoral results in December of twenty seventeen, and they allowed
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: him to continue in office.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Ernandez, or w as he's often called in Honduras, cracked
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: down on the resistance to his fraudulent reelection with an
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: iron fist.
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: So during the twenty seventeen electoral crisis. There were over
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: thirty people that were sought and killed by state security forces.
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: That basically individuals that went to the street, protesters that
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: went to the streets to protest the electoral fraud, and
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: as the US was certifying the elections, state security forces
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: were shooting protesters. So there's over that's over thirty. I
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: think thirty thirty five people that's not been documented. There
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: were also hundreds of individuals that were detained illegally detained
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: during just the twenty seventeen electoral crisis, and then twenty
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: two individuals were held for months and my partners one
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: who was held for nineteen months in a maximum security prison.
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: They were the political prisoners of the twenty seventeen electoral fraud.
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: There was a few disappearances as well during the electoral fraud,
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: and then more broadly, if you look at you know,
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: you'd have to look at the numbers, but in the
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: Aguan Valley region alone, I think from twenty thirteen or
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: twenty fourteen and on to the end of Hoe's term
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: in office or a second term in office, you know,
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: there were I think over one hundred campesinos or small
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: farmers that were murdered in the Iguan Valley, and that
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: doesn't even include disappearances or individuals that were injured or imprisoned.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: If Washington didn't say a word, the United States had
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: his back. Hernandez was their man. As Karen explains, he
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: portrayed this get tough on crime image while running hundreds
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: of tons of cocaine into the United States.
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: A lot of drug money went into basically buying his
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: victory to become president of Honduras, which he took office
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: in twenty fourteen for the first time as president. And
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: when he took office, he presented himself as this great champion,
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: this warrior who was going to lead the war on
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: drugs in Honduras and he was going to ally with
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: United States to stop drugs, to crack down on organized crime,
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: and to basically stop migration to the United States and
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: Mexico border. And so there were so many operations that
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: Juanner Lender Nandez did together with the US and Canada.
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: We're talking about the Green Berets, Special Forces FBIS, Swatt
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: Teams JTF Bravo, which is a military force based in
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: Pomola Air Base in Honduras, and even the Canadian military
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: DEA operations. You know, they all partnered with Wanner lander
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: Nandas to sort of crack down on drug trafficking. And
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: so as the US prosecutors say, say, that image that
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: Hauner lander Nandez promoted along with the US and Canada
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: was fundamental to his conspiracy to traffic drugs. So without
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: the US's backing and sort of this helping Hoe build
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: this facade, he might not have been able to traffic
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: as much of the drugs that he did because he
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: used that to shield what he was actually doing behind
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: closed doors, and that was trafficking thousands of kilas of
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: cocaine into the United States.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, Siamata Castro won the country's elections
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: in a huge victory for the Lane Left. She promised
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: to fight corruption, stand for women's rights, and improve the
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: lives of poor and working class people. Her husband is
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Manuel Selaia, remember the president who was ousted in the
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: US back coup in two thousand and nine. Many saw
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Castro's victory as the return to democracy in the country
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: after the coup and years of fraudulent rule under Juan
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Orlando Hernandez. She took office in early twenty twenty two.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Then on April twenty first of that year.
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: Good afternoon everyone, today, Juan Orlando Hernandez, the former president
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: of Honduras, was extradited to the United States to face
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: federal charges. Hernandez is charged with participating in a corrupt
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: and violent drug trafficking conspiracy to facilitate the importation of
• 12:47
  Speaker 6: tons of cocaine into the United States from two thousand
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: and four to twenty twenty two.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty four, he was convicted by a New
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: York court and sentenced to forty five years in prison.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: It was a big deal. He was basically the first
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: high profile former president from Latin America to have been
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: convicted and sentenced in the United States for drug trafficking
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: since Panamanian President on Well Noriega three decades before. Karen
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Spring attended the trial in New York. She said it
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: was a historic moment for so many in Honduras to
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: finally see a powerful political figure like this held accountable
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: for his crimes.
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: I spoke to several Hundurans that flew in from Texas.
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: They came in from d C or Washington, DC area,
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: and so Colorado. So many different areas, and they just said,
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: you know, we want to be here, We want to
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: see you know, this former president face justice for once
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: in you know, the history of Honduras, and especially considering
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: everything that hoe As that people often call him, has
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: done in our country and all the impacts that his
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: two term presidency has caused in Honduras, and so many
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: Hundurans talked about how seeing him there in the courtroom
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: was just such an exceptional moment, historical moment for them.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: And then just a year later, on December first, twenty
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: twenty five, President Donald Trump pardoned him. Hernandez left prison
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the same day. The timing was not by accident. See
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Trump's pardon came the day after high stakes elections in Honduras.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: In the lead up to that election, Trump did what
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: he could to sway the vote in favor of right
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: wing candidate and Hernandez, ally the former mayor of Tegucigalpa
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: nasri Asfuda. Just two days before the election, on November
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: twenty eighth, Trump announced his plans for the pardon over
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: truth social He called on Hondurans to vote for Asfuda
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and threatened to cut off all aid to Honduras. If
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the leftist candidate one. It took more than three weeks
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: and a manual vote count amid allegations of fraud, for
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: as Fuda to finally be declared victor. He won by
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: less than a percentage point. As Fuda took office in
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: late January. It was a big shift since twenty twenty two,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Sia Mara Castro and her leftist Libre Party had, despite
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: huge obstacles, attempted to undo many of the conservative measures
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: set in place under Ernandez and the preceding coup government.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And that brings us to the leaks.
• 15:36
  Speaker 7: If your Republican, you're too aiitau.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: The leaks are all available online. I'll add links in
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the show notes. They're all audio messages sent during the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: first four months of this year. Most of them are short,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: less than a minute long, and I want to walk
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you through these messages so you can hear people in
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: their own words, because the content is shocking. A many
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of the communications are between Juan Orlando Ernandez, President nasri Asfura,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and other leading right wing politicians in Honduras. Ernandez has
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: been in the United States since he was released from prison.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Many of the messages are focused around his return to
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Honduras and his future return to power. Ernandez doesn't mince.
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: Words alame Tomas.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: In one voice message from March eighteenth, former president Ernandez
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: tells the conservative president of Honduras's National Congress, Tomas Sanbrano,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: that the sixty seven year old Asfura, who entered office
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: as president just a few months ago, is old and confused,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and that he should start taking orders from him. Listen
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: to me, Ernandez says, I'm the one who's going to
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: set the pace from here on out.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Ja Yamanda Ricalo dec Jo.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: In another voice message from March twelfth, which Ernandez sent
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to current president as Fuda, he says, I left a
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: message that we were going to win the election and
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: that you had to support me in these moments. The
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: presidency has to be returned into the correct hands, he says,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: referring to himself.
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: He look, kerrel, that's what.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: President Donald Trump wants, he says, and if you go
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: against him, I will communicate it immediately and your government
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: will fall. There's this tone in many of Ernanda's messages,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: as if he's a mob boss, ordering around his minions
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: and demanding that they use political violence if necessary to
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: maintain control and clamp down in opposition to their government.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: In this message, Ernandez is speaking to National Assembly President Sambrano,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: whom Ernande has asked to be his right hand man
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: for his return to the country.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: Yet a la PARANOTROI hey, are.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: That you have to kill people, he says, for us
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: to be calm. You just have to do it. If
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you have to return to repression to control the country,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: it has to be done. You have to do everything
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: you have at your disposal to not let go of power,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: and you have to make it seem that everything that
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: will happen deaths, killings, and kidnappings is being done by
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the communists.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Comuni.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Those words are all the more terrifying when we remember
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: the scale of violence, including crackdowns on protests, arbitrary arrests,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: and killings of social movement leaders that took place during
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Ernandez's time as president. He's held on to power through
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: brute force before, and I will mention this again and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: again throughout this episode because it needs repeating. Juan Orlando
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Ernandez is a convicted drug and weapons trafficker responsible for
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: widespread human rights abuses, who is pardoned by President Donald Trump,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: and he is now empowered to push Trump's vision of
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: stamping out the left in Latin America. I can't help
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: remembering US President Franklin D. Roosevelt's quote about the ruthless
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Nicodaguin dictator Anastasio Simosa in nineteen thirty nine. Samosa may
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: be a son of a bitch, but he's our son
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: of a bitch. The leak messages get even more violent.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Ernandez sent this message on March eighteenth, also to his
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: guy National Assembly President Zambrano. Honduras needs strength, he says,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: it needs logistics, it needs blood. If you want to
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: control people, you have to oppress them. You have to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: squeeze them. Counter violence, generating violence. That's what President Trump says.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And you have to understand that he's going to be
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: there for forever. I don't know how, but that's just
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the way it is. And you have to listen to me.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Don't be soft, don't let it get to you. Don't
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: be so soft. If not, you won't be able to
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: do the work. That's what Pablo Escobar said. Ernanda says
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: a camel.
• 20:15
  Speaker 7: Doornio Rome.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar was a Colombian drug trafficker who ran the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Meda Ying cartel in the nineteen eighties. He was the
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: most iconic and powerful drug trafficker in Latin American history,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the focus of the Netflix series Narcos, and this reference
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: from Hernandez, spoken from one drug trafficker about another, speaks
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: volumes about his mindset. Honduras is open for business. He
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: clearly believes he and his allies have the green light
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: from Trump to unleash violence against anyone who Trump sees
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: as an adversary or who gets in the way of
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: their bid to accumulate power and push a far right
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: agenda that includes killing, jailing, and buying off members of
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the HUNDA in Congress. They've had their sights set on
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Marlon Ochoatura.
• 21:07
  Speaker 8: Serra Compartillo.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: He's a leftist hunter and politician with Siamara Castro's Libre Party.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: He served as the country's Minister of Finance in twenty
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: twenty four. Over the last two years, he sat on
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Honduras's National Electoral Council, the body that oversees the country's elections,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: and he was the most vocal voice on the council
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: claiming fraud in the presidential elections.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: Last years in La election Menos Transparente then wester Astoria Democratic.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: This was perhaps the least transparent election in the history
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: of Honduran democracy, he said following the vote. Not just
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: for the buying of votes that happened on the day
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: of the election, not just for the intimidation that thousands
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: of people faced in cities across Honduras, but it was
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: also an election that was not transparent and also fraudulent.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Rule of the leak messages call for his murder. This
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: message is from January twenty seventh, the day President nasri
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Asfuda was sworn in. Right wing Honduran Vice President Aria
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Antoinetta Mahia says, quote, We're going to take back the
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court. We're going to take back National Congress. We're
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: going to take back all the powers of government. She says.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: She's speaking with Cosette Lopez Osorio, a member of Honduras's
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: right wing National Party who serves with Marlon Chou on
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the National Electoral Council. Lopez Osorio responds, we have to
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: jail Marlin. We have to put him in jail. More
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: than that I would pay to have him killed. She
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: takes it even further in another message in La Mano,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: if I had a gun in my hand, she says,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and I had Marlon, Salvador and Hiroshka in front of
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: me with the same bullet, I would kill all three,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: she says. Also, Salvador Nasraya is a three time presidential
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: candidate who also served in Siamara Castro's government and who
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: was as food as closest challenger in the twenty twenty
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: five election. Iroshka Elriri is Nasraya's wife, a former beauty
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: queen and a member of Congress with the Conservative Liberal Party.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: These right wing politicians in Honduras are obsessed with Marlon Ochoa.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: They clearly believe that to take back complete power, they're
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: going to have to take him out.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Is then punto Revista Marlon de viriecere loottivon no marono.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: From my point of view, Cossette Lopez Ossordio says in
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: another message from two weeks later, Marlon should be objective
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: number one. Two weeks after that, she leaves another voice message, oh.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Amos assayira land sasa Marlon del Boston.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Listen, tell me how we're going to continue without taking
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: out this bastard Marlin from his seat on the council.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: You can't do anything, you can't move anything, you can't
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: touch anything. We can't do anything without having a clear
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: idea of the impeachment process. Once we remove him from
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: the council, we're off to the races. First jail or death.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: That's the way I see it, jail or death, either
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: blood or he's fired, she says.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Or Epiro.
• 24:27
  Speaker 9: Again Ramarlon inlo demand.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: In another series of messages, they discuss plans to secure
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: nearly two hundred thousand US dollars to buy off lawmakers
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: to vote out Ochoa in a congressional impeachment of his
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: council Seatoya. One of the voices here is that a
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: former leftist lawmaker turned right wing political power broker, Jorge Caliks,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: who says he's already spent too much of his money
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: on this cosette. Lopez Osorio, who vidually called for Ochoa's murder,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: comes to the rescue. This voice message is from March thirteenth.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: El Preco Millone del Empire Metatri Husio politico and Marlo
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Breco tre Millon dele Empire.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I offer one hundred and ten thousand dollars of my
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: own money so you can begin this congressional impeachment of
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Marlon Uchoa. It's so that we can find these sons
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of bitches, these congressmen that aren't committing, and you get
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: them on board, she says. Less than a month after
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the vote buying discussions, on April ninth, Congress voted to
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: begin a process against Marlon Ochoa to remove him from
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the Electoral Council. A week later, Congress removed him from
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: the body. He was already out of the country.
• 25:51
  Speaker 10: Hondura's deputies from the Liberty and Refoundation Pari Repoyat Marlon
• 25:55
  Speaker 10: David Oshoa, a member of the National Electoral Council, left
• 25:58
  Speaker 10: the country and his police seeking Polico asylum in an
• 26:01
  Speaker 10: on this closed nation. Ocho I have reported in previous monsters,
• 26:04
  Speaker 10: even death threats against himself and his family.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Hernandez and his people were undeterred. O Carlo, I'm going
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: to begin to look for him with the contacts that
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: we have in US intelligence, Hernandez said, and once we
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: find him, then we'll proceed with his capture or with
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: whatever else has to be done. This is terrifying, and
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I can't let this audio pass without underlying just how
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: sinister this is. It sounds like something from the dark
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: days of dictatorship, when the security forces of the South
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: American military governments collaborated on intelligence to take out their
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: political opponents with the support of the United States. But
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: this audio is just from a handful of weeks ago
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: April sixth, and it is not the only time the
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: US or other countries are implicated in these leaks. Israel
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: is also mentioned, and this is key. In a voice
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: message from January twentieth, former President Juan Orlando Ernandez refers
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: specifically to Benjamin Netaniahu Nombre, the Prime Minister is going
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: to support us. Ernande says, we're very thankful for him.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: They had a lot to do, everything to do in fact,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: but the negotiations and my leaving prison, he says. In
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: another message, Ernandez chastises allies in Honduras a co.
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: Aloquetang through.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: He says that some people are blocking his return to Honduras.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: He says, you didn't even pay the money for my pardon.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: It didn't come from you. It came from a group
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: of rabbis and people that supported Israel. I'm going to
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: win the next elections in Honduras, he says. There's so
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: much to unpack in this message. Was the Trump administration
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: paid off to pardon Ernandez? If not what was the
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: money for for lobbying That seems like the most likely possibility.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: But why would a group of rabbis Israel and Prime
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Minister Netanyahu be interested in Ernandez's release Because Ernandez has
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: deep ties with Israel and was a staunch supporter While
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: in office, Ernandez graduated from a leadership program run out
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: of Israel's Agency for International Development Cooperation. As president, Ernandez
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: traveled to Israel and he met with Netanyahu on multiple occasions.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: His government was one of Israel's top allies in Latin.
• 28:48
  Speaker 11: America, was President. I'm going to say a few words
• 28:50
  Speaker 11: in Hebrew about unfolding events and then get on with
• 28:53
  Speaker 11: this important ceremony.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Netajach, who spoke to their ties during a joint press
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: conference in September twenty nineteen to commemorate Honduras's opening of
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: a commercial office in Jerusalem.
• 29:04
  Speaker 11: We've had a great friendship both personal President Henandos and myself,
• 29:10
  Speaker 11: but also between our peoples, our countries.
• 29:14
  Speaker 10: There is.
• 29:15
  Speaker 11: There is an intrinsic cooperation because we're sister democracies facing
• 29:21
  Speaker 11: challenges that are that are obviously daunting, but we have
• 29:26
  Speaker 11: the spirit and the ability to overcome it.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: I court it, vote has been requested, we shall now
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: begin the voting process.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Honduras under Ernandez was one of the few countries in
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: the world to support Israel during a twenty seventeen UN
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: resolution vote rejecting Jerusalem as the capital. Honduras recognized Jerusalem
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: as the Israeli capital in March twenty nineteen. According to
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the Israeli government, Honduras under Ernandez was quote one of
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the two countries in Latin America and five in the
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: world to most often abstain from resid opposed by Israel.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: And it appears Netanyahu and Israel paid Hernande's back in
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: full by ensuring Trump's pardon and his release from prison.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: The Audio League's show at Anandez is trying to capitalize
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: off his connections to both Israel and the United States
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: for himself and his right wing allies now in power
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: in Honduras's.
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: Republican to Vita.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: In this message, he's talking about how conservative lobbyist Roger
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Stone scored a meeting. In this message, he's talking about
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: how conservative lobbyist Roger Stone scored him a meeting with
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: a group of Republicans, and he says it's important that
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: we speak with friends in Israel, so they can support
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: us with issues of logistics, intelligence and other things. That's
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: really important for my return to Honduras. He says. Another
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: message he seems to follow up on that mandela, and
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: he tells Congressional President Tomasmbrano, I sent you the people
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: from Israel. They sent you money. I'm here in the
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: United States lobbing. It's not by accident that in mid January,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: even before his inauguration, Honduran President nasri Asfuda traveled to
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Jerusalem to meet with Prime Minister Natanyaku.
• 31:24
  Speaker 11: I'm delighted to welcome you, mister President. We're refashioning the
• 31:31
  Speaker 11: relationship between Israel and Anduras to the traditional lines of friendship,
• 31:36
  Speaker 11: but we want to also seize the future with you
• 31:40
  Speaker 11: and the people of Hoduras. I look forward to working
• 31:43
  Speaker 11: with your government both in economic fields and agriculture and technology,
• 31:49
  Speaker 11: in any of the areas that I think are laid
• 31:51
  Speaker 11: before us. You should know that, as far as Israel
• 31:54
  Speaker 11: is concerned, the sky's the limit.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Then, on February seventh, just ten days into his term,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: as Fuda met with Donald Trump in mar A Lago, Florida.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: It's clear from the leaks that the right wing victory
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: in Honduras fraudulent or not, already means a win for Trump.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: As Fuda speaks to Hernandez in a voice message three
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: days later about his trip to Florida, Presi yatoos President,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: it's a pleasure to greet you. We already had a
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: private session with the investors, and it's very positive for
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the expansion in Rotan, for the SEVE and in Comayagua
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: for Palmerola. Palmerola is the other name of the Sotocano
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Air Base, a Honduran military base that's long been the
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: most important headquarters for the US military in Central America.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: As we looked at in depth in the first season
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: of Under the Shadow, this is another reason why Honduras
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: is so important for the United States and for Trump.
• 33:00
  Speaker 8: Mohamola a specific a man dying Rotana.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: We're going to push for another Palmarola, specifically right there
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: in Rotan, where prosper is located, as Furtel's Ernandez. We've
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: already negotiated it, and also an inter oceanic train, which
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: we're going to hand over to General Lecture. Rotan is
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: an island just off the Caribbean coast of Honduras, and
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Prospera is a big deal for free market activists, Bitcoin Bros.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: And its Silicon Valley investors like Peter Teel. It's what's
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: known as a set a classification that would essentially allow
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: rich and powerful private individuals and corporations to set up
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: their own autonomous private cities in Honduras. Honduras's Congress approved
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: the set is in twenty thirteen when the body was
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: run by then soon to be President Juan Orlando Ernandez.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: They're kind of like the freedom cities that Trump hopes
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: to create in the United States. The set is were
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: rolled back under the Siomata Castro administration. The country Supreme
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Court ruled them unconstitutional, but the prosperce has tried to
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: hold out. It's taken Honduras to international arbitration for more
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: than ten billion dollars in compensation. Now it seems Hernandez
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: and President Aspuda's close ties to Washington and the United States,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and Trump's close ties to Silicon Valley have the current
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: hunter and government pushing to once again greenlight the private cities.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I visited Roatan a few years ago to report on
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: the prosperocere. Let's just say the whole scheme is another
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: huge reason why Honduras matters to powerful and wealthy people
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: inside the United States, and why Trump took such an
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: interest in the election late last year. That and this
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: idea of a new US military base in Honduras.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: L Maria fura bresiente.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: I am marlaoo.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: This was Vice President Maria Antoinette Mahia's message Dernandez shortly
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: after as Fuda's visit to Mara A Lago. He went
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: there to negotiate first the return of Juan Orlando Hernandez,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the expansion of the SEES, the territorial expansion of the
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: manufacturing plants, the possible creation of a new tax free zone.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: She said, Rotan is going to be the central point
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: for a new US base, a new US base for
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: conflicts with Cuba, Mexico, and possibly Venezuela. Of course, those
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: are the top countries in Latin America that Trump has
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: been either attacking or threatening over the last year, and
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the three main countries I focused on so far in
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: this season of Under the Shadow. But military might is
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: not the only way that Trump and his right wing
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: allies hoped to influence the region. January thirtieth, twenty twenty six,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: three days in t Nasri Asfuda's term. Former hunter and
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: President Juan or Lando Hernandez makes a series of phone
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: calls to both Asfuda and Vice President Maria Antoinette Machia.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: He asked for money to set up a fake news
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: office in the United States with the help of some Republicans. Alapent,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I need you to please send me to Rosalees's bank
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: account one hundred and fifty thousand dollars please, because we're
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: going to rent an apartment and set up an office
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: to create a digital journalism outfit. Someone here from the
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: team of the President of the United States is going
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: to manage it. He's one of the Republicans who's working
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: with us. They're going to set up a news website
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: where they're going to publish some important information about Manuel
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Selaya and Siamara Castro. He says, remember Selaia and Castro
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: husband and wife, both former leftist presidents.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Hey, we are.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: As Fuda responds, I'm going to transfer from the bank
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: account of a friend. Let's see if they can get
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: it to you in cash. But tell me, what are
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: we going to do with this? What do we get
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Hernandez says, We're setting up an Information Office President from
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: here from the United States, so that they can't trace
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: it back to us. There in Honduras. It's going to
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: be like a Latin American news site. I was on
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: a call with Argentine President Javier Milay and it was
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: very successful, really really really good, and I think with
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: this we can do some big things for all of
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Latin America. There are some files coming out against Mexico,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: there's some files coming out against Colombia, and most importantly
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: against Honduras and the Zealaia family. Ask Fooda tells them,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: I think you also need some money for you, so
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: we're going to send you another one hundred and fifty
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: thousand so you can survive a little more over there,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: we'll take it out of insept, he says. The Ministry
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: of Infrastructure and Public Services. After his call with Asfuda
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Ernanda spoke with Vice President Mahia.
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: Jod Mentalik.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: He says, I need this cash because we're going to
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: set up an office here with the support of some Republicans,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: in order to attack and uproot the cancer of the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: left in Honduras and all of Latin America. I mentioned
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: to President Asfura that we could talk with ha Milay
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: and he's supporting with three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Also,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: another good friend of ours in Mexico is supporting in
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: order to focus on the issue of Mexico. We're pretty
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: ready and hoping this can really move forward, he says.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Mahia responds, President, if you want forget the details, I
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: just want to confirm the amount. Now that I know,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: I'll take care of all the details. Three hundred thousand
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: it is, she says, money taken from the Hunduran Ministry
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: of Public Services to support a convicted drug draft to
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: set up a disinformation site in the United States to
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: attack leftist leaders in Latin America with the help of
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Republicans tied to the White House. This is a bombshell.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: The Honduras Gate leaks have been covered in Latin America,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: but they have been almost completely ignored by every major
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: news outlet in the United States. Artudo Domingez says, this
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: is the biggest story not being talked about right now.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: This administration is just going balls out. They're just gung
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: ho for overthrowing governments and taking control.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: He's a Cuban American journalist based in Texas. He's been
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: reporting on Honduras Skate and so many other things going
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: on in Latin America. His latest piece in The Antagonist
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: magazine is entitled how far will Trump go to destabilize
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Latin America? As We've looked at already. He says, Hondura
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Skate is so much larger than just Honduras. It reveals
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: the United States and Israel's concern for backing far right
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: allies in Latin America at any cost and doing away
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: with their political adversaries across the region. This is not new.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: These are just the latest tactics to push this far
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: right agenda across Latin America.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And that's tech. That's basically the strategy that's been the
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: foreign policy strategy against Latin America, that's been in place
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: for about one hundred over two hundred years now. So yeah,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: it's all interconnected. You know, the US has been doing
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: this to Latin America for a long time, and they
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: were much more covert before. And I say this a lot,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: but the incompetence in the White House right now has
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: lifted the veil on what the US used to do
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: in secret. They're doing it out in the open. You know,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: blowing up boats and dieting real castro on bogus charges, kidnapping, madudo,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like everything is just manufactured
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: to create pretexts to you know, exert dominion over other countries.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: And that's what we're seeing right now in Latin America
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: and even in Greenland. You know, when you're talking about
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: the Western hemisphere in our entire region, you include Greenland
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: and Canada in there, and suddenly all the rhetoric about
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Greenland and Canada starts to make sense.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: It's about control over them, just like it is over
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Latin America.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: The Honduras Gate revelations that NANDAS is orchestrating a broader
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: regional destabilization campaign are particularly concerning when it comes to Colombia.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: The country has high stakes elections at the end of
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the month.
• 41:36
  Speaker 9: Comienzala Victoria Ecomenza and Sebundo No progress Istar.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Leftist center Ivan Sepeva is leading the polls, but the
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: far right lawyer Abelardo de la Ispraya is only a
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: few points back. Many fear Trump will use his weight
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: to try to influence Colombia's vote in favor of Dela
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Espraya like he did in Honduras for us FUDA. Colombia's
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: leftist president, Gustavo Petro has consistently stood up to Trump
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: and his meddling in Latin America. This month, he called
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: for an investigation into the leaks and their attempt to
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: sway the vote. On May thirty first.
• 42:15
  Speaker 9: Deal, he said the information in the Honduras Gate leaks
• 42:24
  Speaker 9: had to be investigated as a potential electoral crime.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: We are in an electoral season, he said. It's being
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: planned with foreign money. It is forbidden by the constitution
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: to participate in electoral campaigns, and here, Minister of the Interior,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: we have to call the Commission of Guarantees to give
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: this the attention it deserves. Artudu do Mingez says he
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: doubts that any disinformation that right wingers cook up now
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: will have time to impact Columbia's election. Still, the message
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: is clear.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I think the threat to Colombia's there, the threat to
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: if you don't elect to Trump wants. You know this
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: is going to happen. You know, remittances are going to
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: get cut off, or aid or partnership agreements or stuff,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: and stuff will get cut off.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: You follow all this stuff really closely. How unprecedented is
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: a leak like hunder escape, Like have we seen anything
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: like this?
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: You know, in recent years or decades.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: In Latin America, there's been some stuff that has been
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: leaked out, you know, plots to assassinate Petro in Colombia,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: things like that, but nothing this extensive that involved so
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: many different presidents, prime ministers, lobbying groups. I mean, this
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: is this is pretty deep. And the idea that you
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: have these all these countries pitching in and putting in
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: money to you know, influence elections in several countries in
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: the region, it's just nuts.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I also reached out to Alberto Maresca. He's an Italian
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: academic who focuses on Latin American foreign policy. He's currently
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: a PhD candidate in political science at Ghent University in Belgium.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: He's also a columnist with the website Latino America twenty one.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I asked him whether Trump might ultimately be behind the
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: whole network, or at least aware of its existence.
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's Trump. I think it's Rubio.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: He's referring to Marco Rubio, Trump's Cuban American Secretary of State.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: I don't think that Trump knows it about it.
• 44:32
  Speaker 8: I honestly now that Trump has an interest in this,
• 44:37
  Speaker 8: especially now what was going on in Run, I am
• 44:40
  Speaker 8: sure that Rubio has that is taking it because this
• 44:43
  Speaker 8: is something only a person with strong connections with Israel
• 44:48
  Speaker 8: and the Latin American conservative sector has, which is the
• 44:51
  Speaker 8: cause of Marco.
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: So I'm pretty sure that it's Marco rubb that is
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: kind of networking those initiatives and those figures.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Could Rubio be the Trump administration Republican who Hernandez says
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: and the leaks is going to help set up this
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: misinformation office. We don't know, but it wouldn't be out
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: of the question. The US Secretary of State met with
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: incoming Hunduran President nasri As Fuda in mid January, even
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: before US food is inauguration. As for Israel's role in
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: the leaks and their support for achieving Juan Orlando Rnandez's pardon,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Alberto says, this is actually really consistent with Israel's actions
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: in Latin America in particular in recent years.
• 45:38
  Speaker 8: Well, this is very, very, very interesting, Michael, because by
• 45:42
  Speaker 8: the time Jandura's gate audio came out, you had Israel
• 45:48
  Speaker 8: and the president of Azok meeting with several government in
• 45:54
  Speaker 8: Latin America, among which Panama.
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: For instance, and in in the lead in the leagues.
• 46:01
  Speaker 8: You find that Israel would have supported this media campaign
• 46:06
  Speaker 8: orchestrated by Milay in the US if you read it
• 46:11
  Speaker 8: through a foreign policy and Ali, which is what I do.
• 46:15
  Speaker 8: This has been consistent with what Israel since the generoside
• 46:19
  Speaker 8: in Gaza try to do. Latin America find a place
• 46:22
  Speaker 8: in which it does not get isolated nlike Africa, and
• 46:26
  Speaker 8: like the Middle East, and like Asi and I like
• 46:27
  Speaker 8: even Europe. Said, there are very few cometries in Latin
• 46:32
  Speaker 8: America that this and from Israel. Chile under Borich, but
• 46:36
  Speaker 8: they will be easily undone by cast Bolivia and Rassa,
• 46:40
  Speaker 8: and that's already been undone by the Nublean government, Brazil
• 46:44
  Speaker 8: with Lula, and especially Columbia with Petro. But I can
• 46:48
  Speaker 8: guarantee you that if a ride towing government gets elected
• 46:50
  Speaker 8: in Colma, that will be undone as well. So that
• 46:53
  Speaker 8: has been Israeli strategy, trying to find a region in
• 46:56
  Speaker 8: the world, and this is the case of Latin America
• 46:58
  Speaker 8: where it doesn't get that solid. In Latin America, it's
• 47:00
  Speaker 8: not a solated at all.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: And removing Juan Orlando Ornandez from prison is a helpful
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: tool in that strategy. Alberto has another piece of insight
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: here that I think is really important to understanding how
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: the honduraskate leaks fit into Trump's push in the region
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: and how so many of the region's center and right
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: countries have lined up behind the United States and President
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. He calls this automatic alignment. It's the focus
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: of his latest article, Honduras Skate and the Tragedy of
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: automatic Alignment in Latin America.
• 47:34
  Speaker 8: The automatical aimed is academic idea for which you know,
• 47:39
  Speaker 8: contrary to non alignment right, automatic alignment in the case
• 47:42
  Speaker 8: Latin America is aligned with the US and bandwagoning a
• 47:45
  Speaker 8: bit the United States to it's foreign policy because their
• 47:48
  Speaker 8: tools inheriedly benefit Latin America. And that's why my piece
• 47:53
  Speaker 8: is right about the automatic tragedy of the automatic automatic alignment,
• 47:56
  Speaker 8: which is the alignment of a given Latin America moment
• 47:59
  Speaker 8: to the US and intionally the ties with Israel. The
• 48:03
  Speaker 8: acceptations of third well of refugees, which the portis from
• 48:09
  Speaker 8: the US on Latin Latin American countries is very important
• 48:15
  Speaker 8: designation of Islamic revolution in Guardovidan, Hamas and Espola statist groups.
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: All of these pertains to the shield of the Americans.
• 48:24
  Speaker 7: But on this historic day, we come together to announce
• 48:27
  Speaker 7: a brand new military coalition to eradicate the criminal cartels
• 48:32
  Speaker 7: plague in our region.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: If you remember, that was Trump's summit and initiative of
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: more than a dozen countries that met in Florida in
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: March and promised to fight arc trafficking in their countries
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: in collaboration with the US military. I dug into this
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: in depth in episode.
• 48:47
  Speaker 8: Eight of this season when in Miami we sold those
• 48:50
  Speaker 8: rightsing governments standing together with Trump signing agreements that were
• 48:55
  Speaker 8: not agreements at at the end where surrendering treaties. We
• 48:59
  Speaker 8: believe it probably that it was the usual rhetorical the
• 49:04
  Speaker 8: new board of peace, usual rhetorical action without any concerts.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: Instead, it does have a concepts and those are the
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: concept the Wolf.
• 49:12
  Speaker 8: It seems to me that there were a full set
• 49:13
  Speaker 8: of demands that Latin American countries should abide by, and
• 49:17
  Speaker 8: among them is the support for isstum.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: So it is an automatic alignment with the global.
• 49:23
  Speaker 8: Far right, not even with the US and niel as
• 49:26
  Speaker 8: countries or governments in terms of progresses with the global
• 49:31
  Speaker 8: fire right. So all those faces built a set of
• 49:36
  Speaker 8: allies that under threat submitted to the US. They submitted
• 49:42
  Speaker 8: because ideologically they were very already inclined to do so,
• 49:44
  Speaker 8: but then they were threaded, so they submitted.
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: Now those presidents they went.
• 49:53
  Speaker 8: On board with so many initiatives with the US, among
• 49:55
  Speaker 8: which is the Shield of the Americas. Then automatically they
• 50:00
  Speaker 8: are obliged at the end of the day to do
• 50:03
  Speaker 8: for the US what do US does not have the
• 50:06
  Speaker 8: time or the resources to do.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Openly attack political opponents, move against the leftist leaders in
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: the region, act as the United States attack dogs, with
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: or without the direct order from the United States or Israel.
• 50:21
  Speaker 8: You don't need to assassinate the presidents as you used
• 50:26
  Speaker 8: to do, or to do to replicate the Hakobo Urbnz
• 50:30
  Speaker 8: kind of events.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: You don't need to do that anymore. And this is
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: a tragedy of automatic alignment. You have Milay doing that
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: for you. You have no Boba doing that for you.
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: And this is the most successful operation honestly in the
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: US for the Voice Latin.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: Is that or you have Juan Orlando Ornandez doing it.
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: That is automatic alignment.
• 50:54
  Speaker 8: You need governments that are will linked to make those
• 50:57
  Speaker 8: interests going on even without invention of the United States.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: In this case, he says, Milay in Argentina is a
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: great example of this. So are several countries in Central America, one.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: Of them for sure.
• 51:12
  Speaker 8: In the Caribbean you see several Listen, so that in
• 51:15
  Speaker 8: the rest of South America as well. I'm concerned about
• 51:21
  Speaker 8: the region as a region finding a unifying boys that
• 51:26
  Speaker 8: can express autonomy in the international arena, because if you
• 51:31
  Speaker 8: don't do that as a region, it is unlikely that
• 51:34
  Speaker 8: a single country besides brazila is a very special case,
• 51:38
  Speaker 8: can have such an ability.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Brazil, like Colombia, is another country in Latin America where
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: big elections are coming up later this year. We can
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: expect similar actions from the Trump administration against President Luisi
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Nascio Lula da Silva and his re election campaign. And
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: if none of this is fake news outlet is up
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: and running, it's sure they will be churning out their
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: own hit jobs, this time focused on Brazil. I'll be
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: watching this race closely as we approach the October elections,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: and you can look for an upcoming episode of Under
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: the Shadow about Brazil in the coming months. That is
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: all for this episode of Under the Shadow. Please keep
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: your eyes out for more. I wasn't planning on bringing
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: you a new episode so soon as I'm hard in
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: the midst of developing my new free speech podcast series
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: for the lead up to the US's two hundred and
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary. The first three episodes of that series drop
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: in the beginning of June. Please check it out. It's
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: going to be a powerful series looking at the attacks
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: on free speech rites today under the Trump administration, and
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: how communities and countries are respons I'll add links in
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: today's show notes, and here is a sneak preview of
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: the trailer.
• 53:11
  Speaker 12: I pledge to give America the most spectacular birthday party
• 53:14
  Speaker 12: of the world has ever seen for America's two hundred
• 53:17
  Speaker 12: and fiftieth anniversary.
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: On July fourth. We're gonna have a good time.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: It's the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the United States.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: But there is a problem. Our right to our most
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: basic freedom, the freedom of speech, is under attack. We
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: have breaking news just into our newsroom this morning. Leaders
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: at the University of Tennessee have fired a professor for
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: her social media posts.
• 53:41
  Speaker 13: The letter of.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Termination was under attack like never before.
• 53:45
  Speaker 12: One communist on the facle it of one universality of
• 53:49
  Speaker 12: one communist whom.
• 53:50
  Speaker 13: On it Tom and McCarthy era, I think one hundred
• 53:54
  Speaker 13: and fifty fac when you lost their jobs in one
• 53:57
  Speaker 13: week after Charlie Kirk was assoussin and we reached one
• 54:00
  Speaker 13: third of that.
• 54:02
  Speaker 7: We are facing one of the greatest dangers the future
• 54:06
  Speaker 7: of freedom, democracy and free speech than we ever have
• 54:09
  Speaker 7: in this country.
• 54:10
  Speaker 8: Eighty five percent of the visa holders said that they
• 54:13
  Speaker 8: had changed their activity online, including just eliminating their presence
• 54:17
  Speaker 8: online entirely.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, the billionaires control the media, and you had
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: all of them sitting in the front row of the
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Trump inaugurations. That was unprecedented.
• 54:28
  Speaker 13: They are constantly censoring discourse. Their algorithms amplify certain voices
• 54:33
  Speaker 13: in certain messages, and they suppress and silence others.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: This moment is unprecedented. If you look at the indexes
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: of freedom of expression, the United States is nowhere near
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: the top, nowhere near the top ten.
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: Right, We're lucky if we're in the twenties or so.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: See, there is a battle happening over the definition and
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: the future of free speech in the United States right now,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: and the winners will dictate what we're allowed to say
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: and the information we receive for years to come.
• 55:04
  Speaker 7: We've made it one year penalty for inciting riots.
• 55:08
  Speaker 11: We took the freedom and speech away because.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: That's but people are standing up and speaking out.
• 55:15
  Speaker 7: I mean, freedom of speech is the root of freedoms.
• 55:18
  Speaker 7: Freedom of speech is the root of the struggle. And
• 55:22
  Speaker 7: remember freedom of speech itself, that notion was core to
• 55:26
  Speaker 7: the American Revolution and core to people like Frederick Douglass
• 55:31
  Speaker 7: and others who were in the abolitionist movement. To organize.
• 55:34
  Speaker 7: It's this not about saying what you think and feel,
• 55:36
  Speaker 7: It's about organizing.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: This is the battle for free speech. A new podcast
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: series coming to you in June twenty twenty six. We'll
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: look at the attacks on free speech rights today and
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: how communities have stood up in the past and the present.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I'm Michael Fox, the host of the podcasts Under the
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Shadow and Stories of Resistance.
• 56:00
  Speaker 12: I'm Mark Steiner, hopes to The Mark Steiner Show for
• 56:03
  Speaker 12: thirty five years on National Public Radio and been an
• 56:06
  Speaker 12: activist since I was seventeen years old. I've been in
• 56:09
  Speaker 12: the movement a long time, and now this is going
• 56:11
  Speaker 12: to be the pinnacle of it as we fight for our.
• 56:13
  Speaker 7: Free speech and produce the series about what we're fighting
• 56:16
  Speaker 7: for for the future.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: The battle for free speech is brought to you by
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: the Real News. You'll find it wherever you get your podcasts. Folks,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: I hope you like what you heard. Thanks so much
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: again for listening, following, and spreading the word. I want
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: to send a huge shout out today to Gloria Love's Bats.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: She's a new supporter on my Patreon who's had great
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: things to say about the show. Thank you so much
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: to you and everyone who supports and follows me there.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: If you haven't visited my patreon, you can find me
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: at patreon dot com forward slash Mfox. You can also
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: follow the link in the show notes There you can
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: support my work, become a monthly sustainer, or sign up
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: to stay abreast of all the latest on this podcast
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: and my other reporting across Latin America. There's a ton
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: of content there exclusively for my supporters. As always, if
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: you're looking for more information, news and reporting on Trump's onslaught,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: both on communities within the United States and abroad, please
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: check out the Real News and naclob. Both of them
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: are publishing daily indispensable reporting. The theme music is by
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: my band Monte Perdido. You can find us on Spotify
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: or wherever you stream music. This closing music playing right
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: now is off our twenty twenty four album Offrenda. I
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: hope you check it out. Under the Shadow is a
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: co production of the Real News and naclob. It's supported
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: in part by Global Exchange. This episode script was edited
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: by Heather Geis. Thanks for listening, See you next time.