Latest / Pod Therapy / #376: Financial Compatibility, Borderline Wife

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#376: Financial Compatibility, Borderline Wife · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Did he go to guy? Oh yeah, by the way, Yeah, yeah,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: that's great. I like that a lot. It would be
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: hard to keep track of.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: At some point man like good memory.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all those siblings.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, remind me to come back from fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: This is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: You can submit your questions anonymously at pod therapy dot
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: net or email us at pod therapy guys at gmail
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: dot com. And now I'm broadcasting from the churn. That's Jim,
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: that's Whitney.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I'm Nick.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: That's fine for some pod therapy.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: It'll we're gonna get to pod therapy. Tell me more
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: about this plug amy thing.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: On the main show.
• 0:41
  Speaker 4: That's fine. They can handle it. You can protect identities, yeah,
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: I will.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: Well, when you said remind me to talk about it,
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: I assume that meant right after.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Your because you were talking about like having that many siblings, right,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: and how it would be difficult to keep it is. Yeah,
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: because so, I mean, when you're dating in this region,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: that's got to be hard because any get you go on,
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: you have to come to start the question.
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: We found out their apps for this, their apps where
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: you like put your stuff in and then you can
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: compare it to somebody else in the app will tell
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: you if you're related or not good, so you could
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: still fuck them.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but of that app.
• 1:18
  Speaker 5: Protection, no, so we it may have been one of
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: the polygamy areas that they were talking about, U one
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: of those areas where everybody's just related.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: That So we're talking about my my buddy who's from
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: a fundamentalist family, not part of the church anymore.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: But he brought his brother, one of l d s
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I think is what they is, what they call him. Yeah,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: he doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't refer them that way.
• 1:45
  Speaker 5: I'm talking to the people who are listening to watch. Okay, yeah,
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: all you said was fundamentalist. I'm just still a give
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: the gap, gotcha.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: So he brought one of his brothers golfing once, and
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: so afterwards we're sitting in the bar having a beer
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: and they're talking and somebody said talking about somebody that
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: has some sort of job or somebody just got hired
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: some job. I don't know whatever it was, but he's like,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: oh it was it was Mike or whatever. And it's
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: like Mike, who's Mike?
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: You know? So on and so it was.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Lacey's son. Oh there's a mic. Yeah, okay, that.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Was a brother and it was that distance like they didn't.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, good lord, keep you like how you
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: know these people do?
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Oh that's right, we are brothers. Good Lord. All right,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Well there you go.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: You'd like to hear more about how being affiliated with
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: polygamy got Nick a steep discount on a new vehicle
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: Patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Well, that's real, a very good discount, which is.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Of their own.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: I don't even want to I don't even want to
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: tell my buddy how much it was because he'll be like,
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: all right, I need a cut of this.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, alright, more than a beer.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: I'll buy him a Coors Light the next time we're
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: on we're golfing.
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: All right, you don't have to tell us the price,
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: but can you tell us the amount of discount.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Between three to four thousand? Nicey, nice disc on a
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: used car. Yeah, now, I like to think part of
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: that was also my negotiating.
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but did you show a little skin too, Yeah, yeah,
• 3:32
  Speaker 6: a little exactly.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I was bending over the carhield wipers were
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: the whole White Snake video.
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: Sir, please get off the hood. You're denting the car.
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: Also, the back seam in your gene shorts is so thin,
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: it's definitely more like a chocolate pie.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: This is a good point to for any of our
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: maybe newer listeners. There's a whole like hour of the
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: show that starts before we start this show.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because so I did.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: Airing tomorrow for us Monday for the listeners. Is my
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: interview with Brady. Oh yeah, your former student. Yeah, that's great,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: who informed me that he listened to the show for
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: a long time before realizing that there was an hour
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: episode that starts before the main show, and he thought
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: he thought rightfully, so rightfully, so he thought that we
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: were just starting episodes with Jim being like, okay, guys
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: start laughing, we're gonna start the episode.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, that's funny. Brand Yeah yeah, yeah,
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: I'm not above that.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: But no, no, that happens what we're doing this time. Yeah.
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: No, Also I would have done that if we weren't
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: also already record there are.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: No guarantees for future shows.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: That's really funny. Well yeah, so yeah, listeners, if you're like, hey,
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: why the hell do people patron the show?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: That's probably the biggest reason is they get the as
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: an extra show. Yeah, they get a whole extra you know,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: cut of time, which is usually thirty minutes to an
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: hour at least.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which we need to have him on the show
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: at some point, bring him into the studio, preferably on
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: a day that you're not here, because I would love
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: to have Whitney and Jacob in the studio with me
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: to just ask him questions, ask him just a wealth
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: of knowledge, all right. On Jim's past, I am he's dirt.
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: On board with this. I just want to I want
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: to give a little plus note. Yes, I don't think
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: it should be on a night when Jim is not here.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I think Jim.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Okay there, unable to speak. Yeah, yeah, just watching in pain.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: That's it. All right?
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: Well, thanks Brady. I'm looking forward to hearing whatever the
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: hell came up in this interview. This will be fun.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: He talks about the birthmark. Oh lord.
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: Patreon dot com slash therapy check it out. So we
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: do have a couple of really good questions for today's show,
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: and we're leading off the order today with financial communication
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: from Anan a wife. Hello pod Therapy crew, Long time listener,
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: first time writer, huh, I know we've heard the name
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: of not a wife before. Not a wife. I'm looking
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: for a bit of age and yeah, oh that's right.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: Anytime it's a not a wife, it's just my wife.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: I'm looking for a bit of insight and hopefully advice
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: on how to deal with an ongoing issue with my husband.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: We've been married for a few years and generally have
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: a wonderful relationship. We have great communication on nearly everything
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: and work well together except when it comes to money.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: We both work professional jobs, come from upper middle class families,
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: and make good money. When we purchased our first house
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: a few years ago, he accidentally put his entire savings,
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: as well as the money that was given to us
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: at the closing and supposed to be used for property taxes,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: into the principle of the house. Of course, this was
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: also right before the wedding, and we ended up in
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: a not so great financial situation for a few months.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Since then, any time money even comes up in conversation
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: he shuts down. Every month when we have to discuss bills,
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: we haven't fully combined finances yet and need to communicate
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: about it. It gets done, but It's almost like his
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: entire personality changes and then he's completely shut down for
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: the rest of the day. I've tried to discuss this
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: with him many times, both in the moment and at
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: different times, and it has never gotten us anywhere. In
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: the past, I have had friends, bosses, significant others, etc.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: All use the silent treatment and ignore me as punishment
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: or a way to get back at me. It has
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: in the past been the precursor to things like breakups
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: and been because it was used as manipulation, et cetera.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: I recognize that my panic when this happens is my
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: own trauma and attachment response, but even with years of therapy,
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: I've not figured out how to get rid of it completely.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: He's also aware of this. Currently, we're in an ongoing
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: cycle of hell regarding this, and I'm at my wits end.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: My husband inherited a very significant amount of money. We
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: knew this was coming, and he always said that once
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: this happened, all would be good. Well it's not. We're
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: closing on a new house in a few weeks and
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: he has admitted that he's terrified something is going to happen,
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: putting us in a terrible financial spot. Even though the
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: amount we have in the bank is nearly doubled the
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: cost of the house. I have tried talking about this
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: many times. I've asked if he's mad at me? No,
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: what's the story he's telling himself? Shrug shoulders. If everything
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: is okay?
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Is he okay?
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: What can I do to help? Nothing?
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: Can we talk about It's fine? He realizes it's not rational,
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: and has even admitted that he was fine without a
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: portfolio two months ago, but now the thought of liquidating
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: any of it is causing significant distress. There are moments
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: of logical clarity, and then it's totally gone. He refuses
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: to see a therapist. To make this worse, this new
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: house needs new flooring. While my husband has fully admitted
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: he could live in a cardboard box and be fine,
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: I have bad allergies and want our house to be
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: nice and homie, which is why the thirty year old
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: carpet needs to be replaced. Yeh, and the first floor
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: really should be replaced as well.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm willing to buy that thirty year old carpet.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to sell it.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: He's from.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: My carpet's like forty years old. So this is this
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: is a huge upgrade. You did get him a microwave too,
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: we'd all appreciate that.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Careful how you carry it.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little slippery. Uh uh. Anyway, we would
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: replace the whole first floor prior to us moving in.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: It was nasty.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: I'm with you on this much.
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: We did that in our house, so much easier to
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: replace all the flooring before you move in.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. We picked out the carpet and engineered would
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: together last night. But once he realized last night that
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: it would be about twenty five thousand dollars, I'm not
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: sure how he didn't do the mental math. Prior to this,
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: he has been in total shutdown mode, hiding in the
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: basement playing video games, completely ignoring me and refusing to talk.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: I cannot wrap my head around his perspective on any
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: of this. We also both have retirement accounts. We're in
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: our early thirties, and we know we will be inheriting
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: triple what this amount was from a combination of both
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: sides in the future. This is not even money we
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: will need for retirement. This is causing massive distress on
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: my part, and anything I've tried to do to improve
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: communication or address it has done nothing. The story my
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: brain is trying to tell me is that he hates
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: me because I cost too much and he's going to
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: divorce or cheat on me, which is absolutely ridiculous, but
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: I cannot seem to get rid of the intrusive thought.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: I'm at a loss and at my wits end. Any
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you, Anon, A wife, done done, done,
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: dune on.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I think this is the part of
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: the show where we weasily uh, just throw up, Patreon.
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: You need to be the show and not a wife.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: You seem to be rolling and fucking do shut it
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: up for your friendly radio therapist.
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: And you may have heard a little bit about an
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: extra show that happens before.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: Let's cut our buddies, Man Maddings ice cream social it
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: on this thing.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't even I would say that our patre version
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: of the show. Yeah, well, yeah, you can cut it.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: Everybody a little taste, okay, life coaches and therapists aren't cheap.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: And you know, yeah, we'll replace the flooring in.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Your house, I mean ship, We'll do it, you know, man.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Carpet, Oh, I have to.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Jacob's got some handyman skills.
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, my floor against all days might be firmly in
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: my past.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have the knees for that anymore? Yeah.
• 12:03
  Speaker 6: I just want to say I think that money in theory,
• 12:08
  Speaker 6: we think it was very practical, and it is, but
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: we forget how much emotion is tied to money, which
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: I guess with what Nick's just shared in our Patreon,
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: like the mental emotional ties to what it means to
• 12:22
  Speaker 6: spend x amount of money as many.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Wives as Nick does.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: I know, God so expensive. That's why you got to
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: hold onto microwaves. Get a free microwave. So I it's
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: funny his father in law has tried. It's it's funny
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: that this letter comes up right now because I had
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: a similar conversation with Laura last night. We went out
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: to dinner and we were kind of talking about the
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: car and everything, and and it was kind of bothering
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: me because she didn't she was she was fine, she
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: wasn't like Judge or anything. But I just felt that
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: there was something going on that she was not telling me.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: And we anyway, we we kind of talked it out
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: and I kind of realized, like some of my insecurities
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: about this is really a fear of being judged as
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: financially irresponsible, like that's a sensitive topic for me, a
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: sense of that's like a sore spot.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Spin thrift. And so then the opposite is the opposite,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: that's the opposite. That's the opposite of a.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Spindrift st judging him.
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: That's right, because spendt doesn't spend a lot of judging, right,
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: So what is the opposite of I believe it's a
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: money money, that's it.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: I think that's it. I think it's it. Yeah, money,
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: I think is what that is. Yeah, I think that's
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: how that.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: But I was, I was, I was worried about that
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: because like there but there was.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: At interior mister realize.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: But there was a part of the story that like
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: that she didn't really have. So from her perspective, it
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: did look a little strange because I came home one
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: day and from recording and I was like, oh, Ship,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Jacob's car is fucking awesome.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: The next day I'm like, I'm gonna buy a car
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: like it like all of a sudden, like you talk
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: all the time about this amazing car that you're so
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: happy that you've got, and it's been so good to you.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: And then now all of a sudden, you're just gonna
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: throw it away and all that, and so obviously the
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: whole story behind that was just that I'm worried about
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: like the tariffs and car prices and ship right, and
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking, like, I got a car with one hundred
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: and sixty six thousand miles, cars could potentially skyrocket and price.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be stuck with a high car market.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: She didn't.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: But anyway, by the way, spin thrift, I used it
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: right the first time, which.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I thought I was wrong.
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: That's the definition a person who spends money in an
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: extravagant or irresponsible way.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay, so a spendy slut and a spind thrift
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: opposite would be a miser Okay. Skin flint, Oh, let's
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: say skin flint. Skin flint? Yes, yes, yes, episode title
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: spendy and spendy. Yeah.
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: Is anyone else worried about the origins of the word
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: skin flint.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I'm a little I'm a little concerned about.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: Better off not knowing.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, But so anyway, I realized, like after we kind
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: of had that discussion, was like, okay, that makes sense.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: But I realized, like how sensitive I am to that, right,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And like I'm the type of person though that I
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: will talk about that, you know, if something's bothering me
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: or everyone.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: Oh thank god it wasn't invented by the Nazis like
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: every other fucking thing like fonta, Yeah no, but like
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: I'm willing to talk about that, right.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Whereas the writer's spouse is just down and that makes
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: it very difficult because it it seems like they're they're
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: from my perspective, it seems like there may be something
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: kind of going on there too, where it's not just
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: about the money. It's not just about uh, you know,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: whether he's responsible with it or not, but maybe about
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: like what.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: That means to him.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: That's it like an internal meaning that he's got either
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: by being judged externally or judging himself internally. But there's
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: something in there that has meaning to him. Yeah, but
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: he's just not willing to open up and talk about it.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: I mean, honestly, I think I relate with the with
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: the husband a little bit because when I fuck something
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: up and if I'm not able to fix it, that
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: will drive me up a fucking wall. And if I
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: can fix it, then it really bothers me until I
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: get it fixed, and then it still bothers me for
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: a while after that too.
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: But I just start you putting that stress like or
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: someone else doesn't, like, oh, I know that.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: It's all me.
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like when we got her new car a few
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: weeks ago. I was driving one night and the realm
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: got scraped in a construction detour.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: It was not my fault.
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: It was absolutely the fault of this kid that was
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: like trying to guide us through this thing.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was a whole thing. Whatever.
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: It bothered me for days. I got it, I took
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: it to a body shop, got it fixed. That the
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: whole thing. But it bothered me for fucking days.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, And they were so stupid. You know.
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: She didn't blame me for any say word about it.
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: She was disappointed that night, just like I was. But
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: you know after that, I was like, I'll get it fixed, huh,
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: and I word about it.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: It's all me.
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: But like that's you know, fucking up with the with
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: the down payment and everything. Also, I'm a little surprised
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: that you didn't have a mortgage person kind of dealing
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: with all that, and that seems just weird.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: With the current.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Like tell me, I was, do you think though that
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: some of this may be like more common for men.
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: I was just to say that because like somebody hit
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: our card door or whatever, like it wasn't even anything
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: that he did. He just went and he come out
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: and he's like, there's a dent in our door, and
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: just oh my gosh, the the shame, the weight that's.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Carried from that.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's like, it's fine, we'll.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Get it fixed. And he's just like the way of
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: the world on his shoulders.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: And like, I think because part of it, my opinion
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: is that like you were brought up at a very
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: young age to be like you are responsible for everything
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: in the household. You are responsible for providing, you are
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: responsible for protecting, You were responsible for all these things,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: and then when something like this happens where you make
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: a financial mistake, like it's hard to get over that
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: because like, yeah, as as it's not.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: And I think, I mean, this goes back to your
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: point about the meaning of the talk about yeah, all
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: the time, I relate so much to the husband in
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: this scenario, and part of it, I think is is
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: because like finances are very hard for me to understand,
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: like it's an area of knowledge I have. I've bought
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: dummies books like investing for Dummies, real estate for dummies.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Thank god, this is something that your business partner should
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: not be listening. There's a reason you're fucking in charge.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: I've told you, like you can embezzle all of it.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't know.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: I would eventually just be arrested and be like, I
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: don't know. I was just told me desired. Yeah, Like,
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: I am so intimidated by this, like taxes, uh money,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: I've I used to oh my god, like and I think, okay.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: So one, I relate to the writer's husband in the
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: sense that I struggle to understand any of that. So
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: for me to make a big mistake really fast, and
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: that's what's so terrifying about this to me is like
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: I could just with a flick of the pen make
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: a choice and I could hurt us. I can irreparably
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: change our situation. And I appreciate that.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Writer this isn't but I mean, we see in this it's.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: Not right, as I say.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that writers saying it is okay.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: But whenever you have like opened up the door randomly
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: and got punched in the teeth. You're really scared to
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: open up the next door, even though you have all
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: these other things that like comfort you and say no,
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: there's like ten doors between you.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: And against your teeth.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm scared. I'm gonna make a mistake.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Always that guy still behind the door, right, what's going
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: on with that guy punching pea? Yeah?
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: So like I understand that part about.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Like why we even invited that guy.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: Feeling financially intimidated, feeling money illiterate, not knowing how to
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: do anything with that, and being very very intimidated by
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: making choices, which for me in my life, I emotionally
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: shut down too, Like if my wife tries talking about finances,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: I go into a dark place. Always it's bad for me,
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: like happening, Yes, a lot of catastrophizing, Like I look
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: at my bank account as rarely as possible for me.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: Looking at my bank account is the same feeling I
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: get after I get blood work done and like the
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: results get sent to me and I get my little
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: message and says, hey, log into your healthcare portal and
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: look at it. My heart sinks. I start to have
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: an anxiety spiral where I'm like, oh my god, I'm
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: gonna open it up and it's gonna say I'm dying
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: or something bad's happening, and like I can't.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I just won't open account.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and so with with like I'm the same way
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: with banking and like student loans or something like I
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: recently got a letter from my student loan servicer saying, hey,
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: Trump would like you to know that you're a piece
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: of shit and he'll never you know, take care of you.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: And we're gym specifically, and like here is the hell storm.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: It's about to change your life, you know, like you're
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: preparing for your kid's car in college and all these
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: other things, and like we're about to change your life again.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: And so like I went.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: Through a horrible dark spiral just from that one letter.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: And like because I don't know, I'm not literate with
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: a lot of financial tools, I don't know how things work.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: And then another thing that I don't know if Writer's
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: husband relates to. She said that they're both upper middle class.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: If you've ever been through financial trauma, it's a really
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: big deal. And like i've you know, my family.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: By financial trauma. I don't know if I've ever heard
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: that term, our homes were foreclosed on.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: Okay, you know we were homeless, yeah as kids, Like
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: I mean that was sitting. Yeah, So like you know,
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: we were a very scarce family, like our whole family
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: tree was broke, we were everybody in the family was
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: dirt farmers, living in mobile homes, like we didn't have anything.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: And then for my family in particular, like yeah, man,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: we hit rock bottom multiple times in my life. And
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: so like for me, I am very scared of finances,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: like I'll never feel safe. And it's interesting because like
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: when I hear the writer's husband having this mentality and
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: she's like, I don't get it, dude, We're gonna have
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: like quadruple the value of this home, like we're set
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: for life, like we've we've got retirement money. Why are
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: you still acting scared? When I hear that, I relate
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: to that there is no amount of money that I
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: will ever have that will make me feel safe. I
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: will always assume somebody can reach into my pocket and
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: take it all away, or I could make one bad
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: mistake and lose it all and I'll be homeless again.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: And like that fucking like lives over my head. And
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: so like I don't know if the husband's been through
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: financial trauma, but if he has, Writer, it is really hard.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Like I've been married for twenty years. My wife has
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: no financial trauma. She came from a you know, strong family,
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: like she's always got safe. Yeah, they got tractor money,
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, and so like trash money. Doesn't
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: understand it because she'll be like, hey, we just need
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: to talk about bills or we need to talk about this,
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: and I'll like get so emotional because I'm like I can't.
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: I'm scared.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: Now do you handle any of the bills? Do you
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: handle any of any of the bill paying in the household?
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: It's all on auto pay, okay.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: And then when it comes to taxes, I I just
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: have to use a professional and he does all of it.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: That's fine. I don't trust myself as.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: A decisions and like anything that, like I should not
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: touch any of that stuff like investments and stuff I
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: have like your standard IRA, a retirement account or whatever.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: But like, I don't fiddle with anything because I'm scared.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I'm scared.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah it's better that I don't. But yeah, no, it's so,
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I wonder writer, if financial trauma is part of him.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: Maybe not from childhood, but like he made a blunder
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: that moved all of your net worth into a pocket
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: he could no longer get it out of, and it
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: suddenly he felt poor, maybe for the first time in
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: his life, felt poor and powerless. It'll fuck your ship
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: up to feel that way and be scared that you're
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: going to stay that way. So I wonder if that's
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: kind of what happened here.
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, going off of really what you guys were just
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: talking about. There's a I'm pretty sure I've mentioned him
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: on here before, but I'm kind of obsessed with.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: This YouTube podcast or whatever it's.
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: It's called I Will Teach You to Be Rich, But
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: I feel like he named it that to almost bait
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: in people who are like, like the get rich quick people,
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: because then when you go to his stuff, it's like
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: not that at all, and the number one comment in
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: his sections will be like, why is it called I
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: Will teach you to be rich?
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, come look look at here and.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: You'll be rich quick.
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: But actually it's remitts Remeet safety like S. E. T. H.
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: I is his last name, And I'm obsessed with him
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: because he primarily focuses on couples I'm gonna just preface.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: That right now, but he will without him, Yeah, exactly.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: What he focuses on the couple people are selfish.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: But what I love and I am obsessed about with
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: his podcast and his style is that he dives into
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: the the couple's psychology for like an hour. He talks about,
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: what were the messages you were told growing up? How
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: did you learn about money when you were young? How
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: do you guys talk about money? Oh, one of you
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: like retreats and runs away, and he'll like focus on
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: that person for a while. He jokingly in the comments section,
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: they're like most people like you're like a therapist. He's
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: doing a lot of motivational interviewing as right here. So
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: it's not really therapy, but it is a technique that
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: we use as therapists, and I love it for that
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: therapeutic aspect and just learning about money. But he just
• 26:19
  Speaker 6: came out, I think in January with a book called
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: like Money for Couples. I haven't read it or anything,
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: but he also has things like a free conscious spending
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: plan which you can go in and fill that out
• 26:32
  Speaker 6: to almost like right size. If we're going into what
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: Jim was talking about like catastrophizing, bringing things into a
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: very clear perspective.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: It's very simple too.
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: He's like, don't overthink it, just like how much are
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: you making about which gets tricky when you're like Jacob
• 26:47
  Speaker 6: or like Peter and I we have very fluctuating incomes,
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: like depending on the monthly or whatever.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: Like therapy.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I put that off the.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Only fast.
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: But yeah, so I am just gonna throw that out there.
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: You know, maybe your husband, if he's not wanting to
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: go see a therapist to kind of dig into those
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: emotional issues, maybe watching someone else go through it, if
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: you want to go in and find like a title
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: or something that feels like it fits you. Because some
• 27:23
  Speaker 6: people he actually it's a lot of flack for mainly interviewing.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: People who are like wealthier or better off.
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: Some people even we make six hundred thousand dollars a
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: year and we feel like we're living paycheck to paycheck
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: and people can't understand that who don't make that much?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Really what?
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: But he dives into how your mentality around money and
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: these stories we tell ourselves affects how we spend it.
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: And I mean just just having money definitely doesn't fix everything, right, Yeah,
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: because you still have a nut, right, you still have
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: the cost of your life, yes, right, And like like
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: when COVID happened, you all of entertainment shut down, and
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: we all kind of went like, oh, now what.
• 28:08
  Speaker 6: Vegas would never shut down. They didn't even locks on
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: the doors, the.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: Doors together because they had to, you know, they had
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: to figure out a way to close them up. And like,
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: and I'm sure Peter did the same thing. Oh, you know,
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: we did a whole lot of like looking at things
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: and going like, this is what our life costs today,
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: Like right now, these are what our bills are. Just
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: because the income has stopped doesn't mean the bills stop, right,
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: So I mean you still.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Got to do You still have to do all that math.
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: So I mean, no matter how much money you have
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: in the bank, you're still having to kind of juggle
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: all of that. I would I would wonder, you say,
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: your your finances aren't completely tied together yet. I would
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: wonder if you could, uh, this is this is going
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: to come out, not how I really mean it to
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: come out, But you could give him some jobs. You
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: could give him some responsibilities in the the you know,
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: home finance. Uh, you know, I don't know something that
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: that for him to take care of, not that it's
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: something that he's able to take care of, because he's
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: probably able to take care of any of it, but
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: just make something his responsibility to kind of start easing back.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how to deal with it.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, obviously they need to grow as a couple
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: in this area. Yeah, it's still a new marriage. And
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: this is where we need to kind of zoom in
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: on the writer's concern for herself, right because she's saying, look,
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: I don't know what's going on with my husband. But
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: she said yeah, and she said, look, my brain is
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: trying to tell me that he hates me. I cost
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: too much, he's going to cheat on me, he's going
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: to divorce me. And Writer has a lot of good
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: self awareness to say, look, guys, I've been through some
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: pretty bad situations with relationships. When people stop talking to me. Historically,
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: it goes very badly for me. I don't handle it well.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: I spiral and then it leads to the end of
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: the relationship, even with jobs. And so like Writer, I'm
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: really glad that you have that insight and that you're
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: able to sort of say, look, I know that my
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: feelings are not facts. I know that that is ridiculous,
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: but whenever he pulls away from me and shuts down,
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: I'm scared I'm losing him. And this is a tough
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: thing because like your newlyweds and so I just want
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: you to understand that finances are I think historically one
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: of the most challenging areas for couples to sort out
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: and get on the same page because how you handle finances.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: This is like if you're in mismatch about like your
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: financial like understandings or emotions around finances. That's like being
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: in mismatch about whether or not you want to have kids,
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: or like being in like sexually incompatible.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Or something like.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: That's like one of you is like, WHOA, this is
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: not working for me. It is a hard thing to
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: break through. And you're correct to think that therapy is
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: a really useful tool in this, because we usually want
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: couples to sit down and do like maybe a financial
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: literacy thing together or like some kind of like bookwork
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: or yeah, a couple's therapy to start talking about this,
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: you know, and understanding a little bit for themselves. But
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: I definitely don't want you living in this anxiety bubble
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: of believing that because he is scared of finances, which
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: is a very broad thing. Everybody in the show is
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: relating to that that that means you're to blame. I
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: don't see that connection. Him shutting down, I think is
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: because like for me, I shut down on these kinds
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: of topics all the time, not because I'm angry that
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: my wife is trying to talk to me about it,
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: but because it is beyond my emotional like battery pack
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: to deal with it.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: And so like she has.
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: To like warn me in advance, like, hey, I'm going
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: to ask you in like two weeks to talk to
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: me about this problem. Like do whatever bullshit you have
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: to do to get ready drunk? Yeah, I get really drunk.
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: I usually just don't come home on that day. And
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: so far it's working out because when she comes and
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: gets me out of the hospital, she's like concerned about that, right,
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: you know, So that's the move. Yeah, exactly. So then
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: she learns never to bring things up that scared Jim
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: because then I will make it worse. Smart that's how
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: you solve this.
• 31:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Typically, I feel like it comes from experiences growing up.
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: Sometimes I've seen mainly from watching that podcast and writer.
• 32:03
  Speaker 6: I'm not saying that this is what happened in your
• 32:05
  Speaker 6: situation per se, but sometimes it can be from a
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: dynamic of talking about money. And it's possible there's a
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: way that things are being said that you're not meaning
• 32:16
  Speaker 6: to like hurt your partner or hurt that situation, and
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: they're extra sensitive to that.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: You're just like, hey, I'm just trying to talk about this,
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: right and they're perceiving it a certain way. So that
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: could be the case, but that takes him feeling okay
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: to share that with you, and he's just shutting down.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: So that is well. And I think you just the
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: way you language that reminded me of jokes Nick that
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: you've made in the past where you've said, you know,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: I grew up in Iowa.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: It's a very modest place.
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: We don't talk about sex, you know, and like but
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: then you might, you know, be in Vegas dating people
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: that are very open about this topic and they were like, hey,
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: let's just talk about you know what we're both into.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: What's your yums? What are your yucks? And you're like, whoa,
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: We've only been married for three years. You slow down,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: you know, like I'm blessing. You better turn that light off.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: I'm keeping these socks on too, you know. And and
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: like there could be an example there where somebody's like,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: oh my god, are you're not into me? Like what
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: why is this so uncomfortable? It's like, no, it has
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: nothing to do with you. It has to do with
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: me and and my comfort level with these things. But yeah,
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: it's gonna affect our dynamic if I'm pulling away from
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: you every time you try to talk to me about
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: something that I'm uncomfortable with, and writer that I can
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: understand how you could relate to that example of well,
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: now I'm getting anxious are you not into me?
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: You know? Is there something wrong here?
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: And the same thing of finances, like you're pulling away
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: when I try to talk about our future, our house,
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: our carpet, our first floor building, a life together, or retirement,
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: like why is it you shut down? And then it's
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: like she's internalizing that, right, Yeah, But by that same
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: metaphor of like the you know, the io sexual proclivity there,
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: there's the sense of like, no, it isn't you, it's
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: it's me.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: It's not you, it's Iowa, Like it's if you can
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: figure out kind of and this I don't I don't
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: have a good method of how to do this. But
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: if you're able to figure out exactly what this is,
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: then you can develop some mechanisms for being able to
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: bring it up and discuss it, you know, like you know,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: using my example, you know, with Laura, when we were talking,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: you know, about me buying a new car and finances
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that. Like, my biggest fear was that
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: she was judging me, thinking that I was irresponsible with money,
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: you know. But once she understood that and could then
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: say like, no, I actually think you're really good with money.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: I was just curious about this, it's like yeah, then
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, well I can talk about this.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: Now I feel like there's no threat, so now I
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: can come out and I can talk, you know, as
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: opposed to if I feel there's a threat and I'm
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: going to be attacked or I'm going to be judged,
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: then yes, I'm going to retreat back into my little
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: area so I'm safe.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Right. But I think it's very important for a not
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: a wife and anybody in that position to do that
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: personal like self talk so they do not spiral into
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: that anxiety. Yeah, you know, because that that will only
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: make it worse because then we're going to react in
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: the sense of desperation when clearly this is hard for
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: this other person, this topic frightens them, and so like
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: you're gonna chase them and they're gonna flee from you,
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: and then it becomes that self fulfilling prophecy.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: This is yeah, this is exactly like so a few
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: years back, I think I talked about this on the
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: show Laura and I. I think it was actually during
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: COVID Laura and I bench watched The Wonder years. Oh wow,
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: and it was such a great show. But like watching
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: that as a therapist, you're just like, if you guys
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: would just fucking talk to each other, you would avoid
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: so many problems because a lot of episodes and I
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: didn't realize this until, you know, when we rewatched it,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: but a lot of those issues were things like so
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: and so is upset about something that they perceived, right,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: and they don't talk about it, and so they act
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: as if what they perceived is reality, and now the
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: other person is upset with them because they think something else,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: you know, is going on where it's like, hey, look,
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: if you guys just talked. You're on the same page, right, Yeah,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: you're clearly on the same page. You're on the same team,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: you're working together. But now it doesn't appear that way
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: because you've each created your own version of reality and
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: stuck with it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, and that can absolutely happen here, you know,
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: And that's why the number one thing writer, you know, like, obviously,
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: I don't think you have the ability to really affect
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: change with your husband right now, and I think you've
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: tried in good faith. It sounds like you've already, you know,
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: used all these different tools and communication strategies. The one
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: thing we do have control in this relationship is you
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: and making sure that we're trying to cover you so
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: you're not slipping back into this anxiety spiral. I don't
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: want to sabotage. I don't want this to become worse
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: than it is. And you know what, you could look
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: at it the other way too. No matter what, you
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: guys are financially flush, like apparently the money came in,
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: you're both going to be in great shape and in
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: good time. These things are gonna happen. You're buying your
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: second house, These maintenance things are probably gonna happen, and
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: it may be the kind of thing where he's just
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: so intimidated by it and you're just gonna let him know, like, Hey,
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna do this.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I'll be the quarterback. How about that?
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: And like for me, that takes a lot of weight
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: off my shoulders. Like if I can get somebody else
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: to be in charge of finances and all I have
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: to do is just being a consenting partner to that, great.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: We just needs to go listen to the podcast.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the best I can do, is like, Great,
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: I'm not gonna have to drive the car because I'm
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: scared I'm gonna make a mistake.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm even wondering too. Like from the writer's perspective,
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure the writer has already thought of
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: this and maybe tried it, but just to be able
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: to instead of trying to say, hey, what's wrong, tell
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: me what's wrong? What's going on? To come at it
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: from the perspective of I can see you're stressed.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: How can I help?
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: Yessy? What would be bad?
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: Is there something? This is a lot? Is there something
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: I can take off your plate?
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: You seem to have an emotional allergy to finance stuff
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: and money stuff. Maybe you're a little gun but.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Even with that, even with that, you kind of have
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: to be careful, Yeah, because like you know, if Laura
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: came to me that way, then that would just reinforce
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: my belief the fear that she thinks I'm irresponsible and
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: I can't handle this.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: Good point, good point. So yeah, I don't know, Yeah,
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: but I do like your your first suggestion there of
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: there is a path to be able to say. I
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: don't want us to get stuck on these kinds of
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: issues and I don't want us to be frozen and
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: not get things done. How can I best help? What
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: is going to be useful? Do you want me to
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: take more of a leadership role?
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Would that be helpful?
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: Do you want me to lay off and like wait
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: until the absolute last minute, like you tell me how
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: I can help? But you know it may turn into
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: some conflicts, right, and in early marriage that isn't always
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: a bad thing. You know, there's healthy conversations that can
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: happen where we have to bust through the pain and
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: you know, the the stubborn obstacles that are emotionally there
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: and that might have to happen. But I definitely want
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: you right sizing this in your head and not turning
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: this into you. Yeah, you know you don't want to
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: put your old boyfriend's faces on your husband's like he's
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: a different guy. Yeah, don't do that.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Just leave that to Jim, not until you're ready.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: That's right. Anyway, Good luck with that one, and on
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: a wife. We're looking forward to your patronage. At patreon
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: dot com, slash Therapy join the therap partner Circle. We
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: would love to have you. We're gonna take quick break
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: and when we come back, we're talking about how to
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: support a partner with borderline personality disorder. You're listening to
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: pod Therapy.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Today's episode has brought to you by Judy Schneider, Leona
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Carolyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Count, Darren Cunningham,
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• 39:49
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• 39:50
  Speaker 3: The show to become a their producer At Patreon dot com,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: slash all Right, Nineties trivia continued, U Jacob did we
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: go first?
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, He's going to kill.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: It, which Seattle based band sparked the nineties grunge music
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ with their nineteen ninety one album I'm not
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: even going.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: To give you don't the album.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Let's hear the album, mate, you know I already know it.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: It's food Fighters.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: It's food Fighters. Never right clever, that would be Nirvana.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: It is Quitney.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: I need to hear more of this music, like I
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: need a hole in the heady.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Sorry, that was terrible, man. I think I.
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: Loved Nirvana with post Malone at the at the sn
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: L fifty music.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah on peacat Network Network.
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: They did an SNL fifty concert at Radio City Music
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: called Jimmy Fallon hosted it. The roots played along with everybody,
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: and at one point all of the surviving members of
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: Nirvana came out with post Malone on Kurt Cobain's vocals.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: Oh wow it.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Was great, Wow wow, Yeah all right.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Which collectible cardboard game pieces, often decorated with colorful artwork
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: and brand logos, sparked a massive playground craze in the
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: mid nineteen nineties. Cardboard cutouts, Yeah, I know this one
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: that you list. Which collectible cardboard game pieces, often decorated
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: with colorful artwork and brand logos, sparked a massive playground
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: craze in the mid nineteen nineties.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I know these. I never got into it.
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: Oh oh yeah, game pieces.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: I forgot that it was a game. Yep, I've got it. Yeah, okay,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: you suck.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Oh we don't have options.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: No option, don't give her options?
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Crazy bones, POGs, tech decks or slammers.
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: Oh, POGs, slammers down metal ones.
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the thing was cool.
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: I completely forgot there was a game that the po
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: that is so true.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised those haven't come back since Pokemon.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Did you know all the random ship that are like
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: these weird beanie babies?
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: They said beanie babies are going to come back. They didn't.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: But all the other things that you thought weren't.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: That kisses me off because oh, your mom said that's.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: Why we were broken. Had all of our money and
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: beanie babies.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I worked at banks, Yeah should have.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: I worked at McDonald McDonald's was selling the beanie babies.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so I bought a fucking ship ton of
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: those because I'm like, I'm gonna be rich.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I got this insiders.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: I love that everyone. Yeah, we had a ton too.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: It was just like, yes, this is an best names.
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: Pugs were that way too sometimes they were very coveted,
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: and POGs like you had to keep them, and Pokemon cards.
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: In my mind, when you were saying cardboard, I was
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: picturing square, so I was like, I don't know what
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: that means. So then when you said like, oh round,
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: I was even going there, all right.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Jim, which catchy Spanish dance track by Los Del became
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: a global cultural phenomenon in nineteen fifty I'm sorry nineteen fifties,
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: inspiring a group dance routines at nearly every party.
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: And in my gym clock the electric slide viven levita loca.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: No, yes, it is the Macarna.
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, nineties ones are easy.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: A lot here, Jacob, which colorful brand of school supplies
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: and still unicorns? Yeah, dolphins all day?
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: Gotta be trapper keeper no steal, Yeah me too, Frank, it.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Is I did not.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: Trapper Keeper was one of the options. Did you ever
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: have a trapper keeper?
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Definitely?
• 44:03
  Speaker 6: I still have mine with all my notes handwritten from
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: high school. And then they're like, in the binder.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: Can we get you to bring that? Yeah, we get
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: to read sixteen year old Whitney's note. My gosh, do
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: that that sounds fun?
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: Oh there is a there's a thing that we do
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: on ice Cream Social War. I read people's high school poetry.
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: They said us in their high school poetry, and I
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: do that.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: That's fun.
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we could do something like that. It's one of
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: my favorite bits we do. It's so great.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: Which nineties sitcom was a successful spin off of Cheers,
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: featuring Kelsey Grammar reprising him.
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: Oh. I watched that all the time with my dad.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: They get to answer, yeahsure.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: It is Jim.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Which groundbreaking MTV show premiering in nineteen ninety two, put
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: seven Strangers.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: In the House.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, comes when things? I just want to watch the mainstream.
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: It's stop being fake, It's start being real, real world correct,
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: Damn man.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: I wanted to be on the real world.
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: Everybody wanted to be in the real world.
• 45:02
  Speaker 6: I rewatched the Last Vegas one was one or something.
• 45:05
  Speaker 6: It was so fun to watch, but the room decorations
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: were so cheesy, so cheesy. I was like, oh, my gosh,
• 45:12
  Speaker 6: nineties because it was like the two thousands, or maybe
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: it was still.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: The nineties, I guess, I don't know.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: Everything was like black lit and Neon.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like yeah, triangles and the.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Only one I remember was San Francisco one.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Portland. I remember Portland.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: I remember watching some of it because my babysitter was
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: obsessed with it and so like we have to watch
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: it all the time. But then I remember later, like
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: a person who was on Real World, like came to
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: Las Vegas to do some kind of special event, and
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: like our high school got to go to it, and
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: everybody was so pumped because this guy had been on
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: Real World. It was the biggest fucking thing ever. It's like, man,
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: and now that guy is so irrelevant and now here
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: you are on Yeah, yeah, what you should go back
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: to your high school teach kids a thing or two
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: about real Life.
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: There was a girl I don't remember which season she
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: was on, but I just googled her because I remembered
• 46:10
  Speaker 6: her first name, Tanya from the Real World, and when
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: I was in high school.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Like, you look like her? You look like her?
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: What do you think she's showing us?
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: I could see that.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's Whitney, right, It's just basically Whitney. I was like, oh,
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: so for the listening audience, google Tanya from Real World.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: There you go, and then give me your thoughts.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: We have photos of Whitney on all of our social
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: media accounts, so just go there like we do know
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: OnlyFans dot com pod Therapy. We've pretty much taken our data.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: The money beats at the front. We know it's not
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: about us. Whitney's only to the eye Candy on our
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: audio exclusive show. All right, I'm in the lead how
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: to support a partner with borderline person disorder from anonymous
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: Hello pod Therapy folks. I've heard that y'all need some
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: questions and I've had some stuff weighing on me, so
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: i figured i'd ride in for some education and advice.
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: I've been with my partner for seven years. We have
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: a wonderful little boy that is toddler age. Our relationship
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: has had tons of ups and downs over the years,
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: but it's settled quite a bit since the birth of
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: our son. We've both been working on ourselves and it
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: has led to a much more stable relationship. However, recently
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: it started taking a turn for the worst. Fights are
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: becoming more and more common and they are getting more hurtful.
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: For a little more background, I've been in personal therapy
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: for a few years and feel like it's made a
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: huge difference for myself and my relationship. My partner has
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: been seeing a psychiatrist for some time now, and the
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: medicine she has been on been taking has made a
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: noticeable difference. She's gotten a few diagnoses, but recently it
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: all kind of switched to borderline personality disorder. It was
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: something that she was afraid of, as she's had friends
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: with BPD and noticed some similarity, but also noticed how
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: toxic they could really be. I was hoping you all
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: could give me some information about borderline personality disorder. I've
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: done research and my partner has tried to educate me,
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: but I was hoping you could share some wisdom on
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: the subject, like what even is a personality disorder? How
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: is it different from other disorders. I would like some
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: advice on how to support my partner through this new diagnosis,
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: but also how to protect myself. I'm not going to
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: sit here and pretend I have clean hands, but she
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: said some of the most hurtful things I could imagine.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: Our relationship is struggling from it, and I've been putting
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: serious thought into whether we should continue, which is difficult
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: when it affects us and our son. I want my
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: son to have a stable family and home, but I
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: also don't want him growing up in a home where
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: his parents are constantly screaming at each other and say
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: horrible things to one another. Sorry if this is a
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: little long or weird, I'm really not sure how to
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: word what I'm looking for. I look forward to your advice.
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: Anonymous pronouns are he and him?
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: Question Jacob as the lay person with a PhD on
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: the show, Yes, thank you.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: When you hear.
• 49:12
  Speaker 6: Mister Jacob exactly, doctor Jacob, when you hear borderline personality disorder,
• 49:18
  Speaker 6: does anything come to mind?
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: You know anything about it?
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: I know a little bit about it. What do you know?
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Because I'm curious.
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: I know people, Uh, you don't know that Nick and
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: Jim and I have talked about it in the past
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: as well. I know people that that have been diagnosed
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: with boardline uh. And I believe that, yes, it's one
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: of the higher concentrations of diagnosed mental illnesses in a
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: in like a sea of professionals that you're going to find.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: I I don't know. I don't have a great answer
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: for that. Yeah.
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: Well, and just to point out that it's kind of
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: weird and tricky, and I think sometimes people know people
• 50:00
  Speaker 6: if that diagnosed, but they're like, what does that mean?
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: Though I know from conversations with Nick and Jim. Jim
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: is in the restroom right now, so I'll speak for
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: him a lot.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Right now, he's still there trying to talk.
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: You're welcome everybody, But that what you guys have told
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: me about in the past is that it's kind of
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: an umbrella term.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: Is that?
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Is that true? Or am I making that a.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: It's yeah, I mean in the sense that it's hard
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: to diagnose.
• 50:23
  Speaker 6: Yes, it makes sense when the writer says that, they're like,
• 50:26
  Speaker 6: there's been other diagnoses, but now we're at borderline.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: It's very hard to diagnose, as with any personality disorder. Okay,
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: it is just there's there's a lot to it. It's
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: and it's also one too that I think people don't
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: like to diagnose it, like you want to try to
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: figure out what else it would be instead of that
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: before you get to that, because is there much you
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: can do with it? I mean, like as far as medication,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: I don't think there's a medication really, it's there's some
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: psychotherapy techniques that are helpful. Dialectic behavioral therapy was developed
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: for bipolar borderline personality disorder. So yeah, it's just you
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: want to try to find anything else that it could
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: possibly be, but it is very kind of hard to dig.
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: I think people throw the term around to quite a bit.
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: Borderline and narcissistic personality dis.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, narcissist I mean right now is like, oh yeah.
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: But I'm like, Okay, it doesn't mean they have they're
• 51:29
  Speaker 6: a narcissist. It means they might have narcissistic traits.
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: Correct, they could be colloquially colloquially a narcissist.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Being a diagnose.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Literally, I think that narcissist in today's society just means
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: that somebody doesn't like you.
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: That's usually yeah, that's who I call it, doesn't like me.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I assume that they are. Is it?
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: Is it unfair of me to think of borderline personality
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: disorder as an umbrella term?
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Am I thinking of that incorrectly? H? How should I
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: be thinking?
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: Personality disorders is an umbrella? T? Yes, Okay, borderline is
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: so man seems.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Like it makes it more borderline to me then, yeah, it.
• 52:09
  Speaker 6: Kind of touches on ones from other areas, like like
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: borderline and like speaking of narcissistic personality disorder, there's some overlapping,
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: you know, things there, So maybe that's what you're thinking of, Like,
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: borderline has some traits that do show up in other so.
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: It's a big bin diagram and other things come into
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: that as well.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, yeah, personality disorders as a whole,
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: you're gonna have a lot of circles.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot of overlap, yes, and a
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: lot of Okay, that's a good way to.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that's probably the context in which we talked
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: Okay, Right, so let's talk a little bit about personality
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: disorders in general, and then let's zoom in a little
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: bit on borderline. So this is a little bit controversial.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: On the borderline.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: So personality disorders are tricky, right, because when we have
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: another kind of mental illness, like take anxiety, it is
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: bothering you the human a lot. You are suffering from this,
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: and so it's very easy for us to quantify this
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: is clearly an illness because it's causing this many units
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: of suffering to you personally, and we want to treat
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: that right, and you're coming and asking for help. Personality
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: is already a really complex thing, and it's also really
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: difficult to define what the lines are around a personality,
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: Like when is somebody coloring outside of the lines because
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: you look at personality over time, Like if you said
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: define the personality, like take a I don't know an
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: eighteenth century German person like I have, Yeah, it's taken
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: them liberally, but like what is what is the personality
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: of a military person? What is the personality of a
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: teenage Hawaiian girl? Like everybody's gonna have these very different personalities,
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: and like it we assume at some point that personality
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: can be so off, so different that now it's a disorder.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that becomes very difficult. Like where is that
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: line that it becomes a disorder?
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Also?
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: I think the thing too that's really interesting about personality disorders.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: Sorry for me to cut you off, no go for it.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: Just something that's really kind of weird is like you know,
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: you kind of mentioned anxiety disorder. It's a disorder because
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: it affects that person's life, whereas personality disorders are disorder
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: because it bothers other people who don't have it.
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: See, and like a lot of times that that was
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: where I was going with that is like that makes
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: it interesting, right, and like this is part of why
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: personality disorders often become pretty controversial in mental health because
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: they're the box that everybody weaponizes on other people. It's
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: very rare that you come in and say, I think
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: my husband has an anxiety disorder and he's in denial
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: about it. No the fuck he's not. He's the guy
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: crying over there in the corner. Yeah, I'm pretty sure
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: he's aware, and I'm sure he would like some help
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: with that, right, Whereas when you drags me, he's like,
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: I think this person has narciss or borderline.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: It is really problematic.
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: And so, like there's been a lot of controversy in
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: the field because these terms have been weaponized, and therapists,
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: i think have often not been very helpful in this
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: conversation because for a lot of our colleagues, instead of
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: getting into the nuances and handling this very very carefully,
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: we're quick to put that sticker on people's foreheads and say, Yep,
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: this person's narcis, this person's borderline, this person's historyonic. And
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: so I've always had, I think, a very difficult relationship
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: myself in mental health with any of the personality disorders.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: I've always struggled.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: I'd never really want to reach for that as a diagnosis.
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: Look at what your wife's going through and look.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: At how she said.
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: I was scared of that diagnosis. A lot of people are,
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: and that does another problem with it because I've had
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: patients that, yes, they do have true borderline personality disorder.
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: It is destroying their life and I am trying very
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: hard to help them. I've also had patients that have
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: absolutely real narcissistic personality disorder, which also, by the way,
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: whenever you've really had not for that because everybody else
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: is dumb, and they were like, I need to talk
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: about how fucking stupid everybody talking about tell me all
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: about all the dumb people, Like oh my god. I
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: was like crazy and like, you know, working with this
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: person long term, then I realized, oh, yeah, this is
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: what's going on and what's fascinating. Whenever you truly have
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: narcissi personality disorder, it really helps you understand how everybody
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: else that gets accused of having that doesn't like whenever
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: you've really seen it, you're like, no, this is what
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: it looks like. It's like if you've never treated bipolar
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: and you've you've been using that phrase right like, and
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: then you meet somebody in mania and you're like, oh,
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: you can see it from space.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: Yep, now I know what. That was.
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: My favorite thing with students is they're like, you know,
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: I have this person I'm not sure if they have
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: unmedicated bipolar, and I'm like, I'm gonna stop you right there.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: They don't.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: They don't.
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: If they did, you wouldn't be asking.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't be unsure, you fucking know, So like people
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: you should have just slightly pleasant.
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, this person is not what you think. So like,
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: personally disorders are already in this struggle bus because of
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: all this weaponization, because they can also be really difficult
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: to diagnose. So quick little micro lesson on how we
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: even look at presie disorders. In the way we diagnose them,
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: we group them together, and so we have these clusters
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: in the DSM five that kind of group together different
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: like patterns, and then we kind of look for those.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: So we have cluster A which are odd or eccentric
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: personality disorders, and these ones are actually pretty obvious to us.
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: So things like paranoid personality disorder, skizoid personality disorder, and
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: schizotypal personal disorder, which are very similar to schizophrenia. Right,
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: So we tend to notice that cluster B is dramatic
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: emotional or erratic disorders, anti social personality disorder, borderline histrionic
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: and narcissistic, and then cluster C is anxious and fearful
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: disorders like avoidant dependent and OCD, which OCD is a diagnosis.
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: But then there is obsessive compulsive personality disorder. And if
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: you get into the weeds of that, one of them
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: is like this acute kind of reality. The other one
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: is this broad, expansive chronic reality. And we do have
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: these ways to kind of tease out the differences. The
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: personality disorders do have value as a concept. I just
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: wish we could do better as a diagnosing community with
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: the way we we theorize this. Like I would love
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: to come together and change Let's get rid of personality disorder.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: That'd be a great phrase, that, throw the fuck away,
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: because when you tell somebody your personality is broken disorderly, Yeah,
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: what is the treatment?
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Try to get you to be less
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: of a dick for the rest of it.
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: I've got a human disorder, right, You're just not one
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: of them. Yeah, you're just bad at being a human.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: So I already hate that, right, and like I don't
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: like them because by definition, personality disorders are permanent, they
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: are not temporary. But my disorder I've discovered is permanent
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: and not fucking temporary, and I've had to learn to
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: live with it and treat it as I go along
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: with borderline again, So that's just my little disclaimer of
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: I hate this personality disorder as a phrase, but yes,
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: it is a real thing. And when we look at
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: what borderline is, just you know, kind of like taking it.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: It's this instability of self in relationships, the instability of emotion.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: It often is accompanied by a really intense fear of abandonment,
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: and because of that fear, really big erratic behavior happens
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: as a result of it. So it's I love you,
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: I can't live without you. Get the fuck away from me.
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: You never loved me, your piece of shit, I hate you,
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: don't leave me. And the writer sees this volcano of
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: negativity coming from wife saying horrendous shit, and that the
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: writer's like, you're you're nuking, like you're blowing up the
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: bridge kind of thing, like you have no you're burning
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: this building down to the fucking foundation. And then you
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: come back a week later and you're like, baby, I
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: love you. You're the best thing that's ever happened to me.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: And the people who are in love with people that
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: live with BPD, this is the craziness that they'll often
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: talk about. They'll be like, this person love bombs the
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: shit out of me. I am their favorite thing. They
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: can't live without me. But then, because they love me
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: so intensely, if I step out of line or do
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: something that scares them or bothers them, or that they
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: interpret wrongly, it is poison hate that comes out of them,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: and they will shatter me. And it's so erratic that
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: the partner, the husband in this case, starts to say, like, dude,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: I feel like I need to get away from you
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: because I love your love, but like I'm constantly in
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: this tornado. It's like trying to write a Bronco, Like
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: you're just constantly like almost throwing me away. And now
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: we have a kid, and I don't want to live
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: in this kind of chaos. So writer, like, everything you
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: said I think.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Is very valid. Your fears are valid.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: And I've seen you fair and very fair, and I've
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: seen people with BPsy. People lose their partners because of this,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: and like for you to have that thought, you're not wrong. However,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: I think I'm hearing a couple of clues here to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: give me a lot of hope. One, your wife is
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: participating in this discovery process, going through therapy and then
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: getting this bigger diagnosis of Hey, the clues are starting
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: to point to a phrase that we use in mental
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: health called BPD. I think you should take that seriously.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: And by the way, there is no medicine for BPD,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: but there are many medicines that are used to soften
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: the symptoms. And it's a lot of them just classic meds, right,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: like ssriyes or mood stabilizers, like those kinds of things,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: like even light sedatives are anti anxiety medicines that when
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: somebody's having a BPD spiral they'll take, they'll treat it
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: like an anxiety attack, and they don't recognize it as anxiety.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: They recognize it as blind fucking rage. But like that
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: is the more insight I can give them about that
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: is like when I tell them take your fucking medicine right,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: and like you'll pop the balloon here and like take
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: the air out of this fight. So the good news
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: is that hearing that your your partner is doing the
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: therapy on medicine, is aware of BPD, has friends that
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: have it, has noticed similarities, but has also been able
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: to use that as a perspective for them to realize
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: I don't want to do what they do. That will
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: treat That will hopefully teach your wife over time to
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: recognize if I do not learn how to control this
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: pattern in my life, this problem could destroy my relationships.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: It could destroy my family. That is a very motivating thing.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: And people that get better from BPD or learn how
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: to manage it, that's where that insight starts is realizing
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: I have almost set fire to the people I love.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: I am going to end up alone. I don't want this.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: I can't trust my feelings. I need help. So Dialectical
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: behavioral therapy DBT is a different flavor of cognitive behavioral therapy,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: but it is designed to help people look at what
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: we call the dialectic, which is to look at the
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: two opposites in a range of things and a range
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: of interpret pretations of any situation in their life. To
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: look at two extremes and identify those polls and then
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: from there, ask what the middle ground is, to sort
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: of synthesize that, and then to try to wrap their
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: mind around where am I at in this spectrum. And
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: it's this process of discovering their cognitive distortions that are happening,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: but in this way that allows them to sort of
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: like avoid repeating a lot of.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: These same mistakes over and over again.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: So there are great books on DBT. There are books
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: on DBT written for people with borderline personality. There are
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: borderline personality support groups that are out there. There are
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: specifically borderline personality therapy groups that are DBT focused. DBT
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: group therapy is my favorite way to address borderline personality
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: because I struggle individually, because there needs to be an
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: amount of challenging in therapy that sometimes I'm not great
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: at because I'm so Rawgerian and with borderline and this
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: is you know, also right, be really Ragerian. Yeah, I
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: consider myself quite Rougerian.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: I consider yeah, of course, of course, doctor doctor.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: I consider you as someone who considers themselves to be
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: quite Rujerian.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: Which says a lot about me and itself is Rodgerian.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, So I think there's that, So like say Rogerian
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: one more time, I think, so.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: I'll get to it. Whenever we do polls among therapists
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: and we ask them what are they most intimidated to
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: treat the two number one and number two answers. Number
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: two is co no, actually think number one. Number one
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: is co occurring substance use. Everybody's fucking it because most
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: are not cross trained, and they're like, oh shit, if
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: this person's also using heroin, I don't know what to do.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: How do I teach them how to get better?
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: That's why people don't ask.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: They just don't ask. I would like to not know
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: if you're also.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: Abusing exactly, if you're going your office, you're your therapist,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: and you said that you spent the last week drinking
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: alcohol a fifth of vodka every day, they'll just be like, okay, how.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: Are your emotions?
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: How are you? Just tell me?
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about it?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: Like fun?
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Because I don't know, like sad?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: And then just to be fair is the same approach that.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: Counselors has on gambling.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, Just don't tell me because I
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: don't want to have to.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: I don't have anything to.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: Say about it. The second one that that pulls for
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: both of us. That therapists are afraid of is borderline,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: you know, and and part of it writers because you
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: got to put you know this, you're living with this reality.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: Try being this person's therapist where we have to earn
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: an alliance with them, and this will happen. And I'm
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: sure why you've had this happen with BPD patients where they're.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Like, I love you, you.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: Are the best. You're the best therapist in the history
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: of therapists, five star reviews, You're awesome, And then they
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: come back later and they're like, I just really feel
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: like you're fucking this up. I really feel like you're
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: not helping me. I feel like you say the wrong
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: You said this the other day, and I just like
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: think I thought about it more and more I realize
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: you are wrong and you don't understand me at all,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: and and like, as a therapist got a backpedal really fast.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: You feel crazy, yeah.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, and like we can't get defensive and be like, no,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: you're fucking wrong. You're the said person, you know, like
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: I'm the therapist. We're yeah, but like you know, obviously
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: we don't do that, and so like we backpedal and
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: we have to be really strategic and be like, Okay, wow,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: thanks to that feedback. You know, we still have to
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: be validating even when they are bpding out right now. Yeah,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: and like it's very hard to challenge that because they'll
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: turn their wrath on us. Yeah, but group therapy is
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: able to do this in a way that no other
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: method can because you're among peers, and the peers can
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: can hear it in your voice whenever you're doing it,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: and then they do it, and then you're all holding
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: each other accountable and you're using DBT methods with the guy.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I was gonna say, is there almost a level
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: of like I don't want to call it shame, but
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: I guess more like accountability when you're in that group setting,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 6: because when it's one on one, it's like I have
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: an opportunity here. No one else is here to challenge
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 6: me except that person, So I'm going to lay into
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 6: my therapist and go off on them. But in group setting,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 6: it's like if you tried to do that with the
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 6: one person that called you out, you are multiple people
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 6: jumping on your ass, sing like shit.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's the sense of you're very aware of
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: all the brains in the room and how they're hearing you,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: and it moderates you. Yes, you know, because there's like
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: these witnesses that are part of it. And that's not
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: to say that therapy can't be effective. Like what I
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: tend to do whenever I have BPD patients is it's
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: so funny because our sessions almost always have the same
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: several acts.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Act one.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: They come in and tell me everything's going wrong, and
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: it's going wrong because these people are not trying me
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: with respect. I'm not being loved the way I need
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: to be loved. I've told them this, how dare they?
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: And here's the nuclear bombs I've been dropping on people's
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: heads as a result. And I'll kind of hear that
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: and go, wow, that that sucks. I'm sorry to hear that. So, like,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: what have been the ramifications of some of these bombs
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: you've been dropping. What's happening? Well, they said they're going
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 4: to take the kids and leave me, and like, you know,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna be alone and they went to their mother's
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: house and now I'm all by myself, and you know.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: You may notice that we're having this conversation in the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 5: meeting roub counting.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, I'm sitting in my car, I'm sleeping in
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: a parking lot tonight, And you know, I'll just like
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: slowly let them bump in to like the realizations, and
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: I'll say things like gosh, it sounds like that didn't
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: go as like you planned, and like no, it didn't,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: Like well, how are you hoping it would go? And
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: like well this okay, Yeah, I can see, and then
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: like normalizing it, like oh, well, I understand where you
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: were coming from, but I also know that sometimes and
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: like I'll have to soften this, yeah, use very soft language,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: like I mean, you just love so hard.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: You have such a big heart.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: And you like the personalities.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like you you love so hard, and I know
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: that the way you love so hard makes it so
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: painful when somebody mistreats you.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: And you know only hear you.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And then I'll like say things like you know,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: I'll moderate and be like and you know you and
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: I know that John has a good heart and John
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: loves you.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: And I know you've told me that in the past.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, I remember you've told me nobody has ever
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: loved you.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: The way John loves you.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: But I know that also makes you really scared that
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: John's gonna one day treat you the way that some
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: of these other people will do. And that's unfortunately we
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: put their faces on John and John doesn't always deserve that,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: and I know you feel really conflicted about that.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: But John also didn't handle this.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: Right, and I'm like, quickly pivot, but you know what,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: John also, John steps on his own toes John not
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: to talk back to you, but he did, and I'm
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: sorry that happened. But I imagine like creating that room.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 4: But it's a dialectic approach, right, I'm trying to get
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: them to question the extreme. Yeah, but as a therapist
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: in a one on one you have to do that
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: like in a slow, let them discover it kind of way.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 4: And it depends on which stage of change they're in, too, yes,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: because if they're in pre contemplation about this, like, all
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: I can really do is nudge that ball into contemplation. Yeah,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: and now I'm gonna try to leave it there. If
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: I pull that off in fifty minutes, I'm a great
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: therapyt Yeah.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: You just have to create the discrepancies, right, They hopefully
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: they can pick up.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: But when they're in full rage mode, dude, they are
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: not picking up on them. And so that's a whole
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: other thing too, is sometimes with BPD, you can't get
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: to this place where you're helping them see the pattern
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: because they are so in white hot rage that you're
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: basically doing crisis ca you're just doing de escalation. And
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: a lot of times they destroy their own lives over
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: and over again. So when they come in, they're not
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: in an opportunity to learn because now they're grieving. They're
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: grieving because their husband's leaving them and taking the choulder
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: right and it's like, Okay, I can't help you undo
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: this pattern or even develop your awareness of it, because
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: we just need to deal with the fact that your
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: fucking life's burning all around. Yes, and you're you're probably
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: gonna make it worse now. So it is a hard
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: thing to treat and it's why it scares a lot
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: of therapists. So now that I've made you absolutely fucking terrified,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: writer John, Yeah, yeah, good luck. Yeah, but no, and
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: that was how our show ended. No, but I do
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: want you to be encouraged, because people do get better
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: from this. But the key ingredient, the fundamental cornerstone, is
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: that she is self aware that she knows they have
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: an illness of hope there and she has that and
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: then holding her to I, I love you, and I
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: insist that you work on this and that we treat
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: this like this is diabetes. Yeah, this is this is
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: a lifelong reality. You will take insolent shots. You will
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: take shots for this. You need to know that this
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: is a like addiction. You know, we tell patients of addiction,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 4: this is not something that you cure and then walk
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: away from and then you can go dabble in drugs
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: again recreationally. You don't have breaks on this car. You
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: never will. And I need you to respect this disease
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: as if it was something like diabetes or like something else.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 5: That you gotta work on it every day, whether you
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 5: feel like you need to or not.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: You're exactly. You need to do the reps.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: You do the work every day, not just when you're
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: in crisis, because when you're in crisis it is a
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: lot harder to get back to the beginning and fix
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: this because now we're in damage repair mode. So Writer,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: as long as she has that fundamental awareness, I'm optimistic
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: for her. And also we need to talk about you
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: doing boundary work, and that's gonna be a big part
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 4: of it too, because you've got to I mean, like,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: you're gonna have to be able to carrate boundaries of
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: the person who is willing to set fire to the
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: house she is standing in. Yes, she is willing to
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: destroy the relationship, destroy the family. And it's hard to
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: negotiate with somebody that has no fear in their rage spiral.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: But then you know that's not who they really are.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: A week later, a day later, an hour later, they're
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: gonna be wrapping their arms around your feet, begging you
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 4: not to leave because they're so in love with you
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: and please don't do it, and they love bombing you
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: and telling you're the best thing ever, and you're deeply confused,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: and it's hard. You know, they're playing Russian roulette and
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: like you don't want to play. But you still have
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: to find those boundaries for yourself. And it's tough, writer,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: because sometimes people do separate as a boundary and then
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 4: they go, oh, I knew you didn't love me. I
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: knew you were gonna leave me, and which it was
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: all long, so you just proved it. You're saying that
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: if I was behaving myself or being nice to you
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: you wouldn't fucking leave me. Well, then now you're gonna
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: leave me because I'm angry because you can't handle my emotions,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: which proves you never loved me in the first place.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: And it's like so self fulfilling. Yeah, and when you're
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: in that system, it's so hard to question it. So
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: they need therapy.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: This podcast doesn't go out to anyone. Nick and I
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: have been doing this for years just to keep Jim happy.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: Break up with it. Jim brought you, we don't. It
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: has been your gas light.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: That's all this show is. This is a hard one though, man,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: borderline is really hard. But be hopeful if it's something
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: that you guys are going to work on together. If
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: she's gonna work on it, I think that's huge.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: He said he has his own therapist too. Good yea, yeah,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: I think I think that's what he said.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: So I that I like that. I have a lot
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: of hope for this letter.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, as long as we're throwing everything we can
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: at it, doing the work, that's the work, doing it
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: every day anyway, Well, writer, good luck with this. Definitely
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: give us an update when you can, but insist, insist
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: on continuing to solve the problems. And it's like Jacob said,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: we do it even when we're not feeling that, you know,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: we take the medicine even when we're not great days.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: And on those great days, you'renna be like, I don't
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: need to do it today. Yeah, gotta do it every day.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: And it is awesome making it.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: You can, learning together, buying books on BPD and DBT therapy,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 4: reading them together as a couple, and asking her to
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: teach you. Teach me what it looks like, how what
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: triggers you, when do you have flare ups? What do
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: I say that makes it worse? What do I say
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: that makes it better? How can I push you toward
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: accountability without pushing you away?
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: Those are key.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: The gold standard book, at least when I was in
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: graduate school for borderline was Marshall Lenahan's book on DBT.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: I don't remember the name of it, but I'm trying
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: to remember. But I believe she was a therapist or
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: is a practicing therapist and also has borderline person disorder.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: That's interesting, but she was kind of the I don't
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: know she was the founder, but she was in the
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: very beginning stages of the development of DBT. So that's
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: definitely a good book.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Another one's Walking on Eggshells. That's when I recommend
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: for friends, friends and family of people that have BPD.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: Should read Walking on Eggshells.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: Are there any narcissistic personality disorder treatment groups.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: That'd be fun? That'd be a really fun one.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's called the Real World. What are you
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Gonna Do with My Problems?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 4: I think it was called Jersey Shore. Anyway, good luck
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: with that writer. We're gonna take a quick break and
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: when we come back, we are wrapping up the show.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 4: You're listening to Pod Therapy. Today's episode has brought to
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: you by a.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: Junie Schneider, Leon Carlyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: Sdarren Cunningham, Cody the Dolorian, Guy, Brady Malaysia, and Gabrielle Adam.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: And if you would like to spots the show, you
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: can become me a Therapy producer Patreon dot com, slash Yeah.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: All right, let's finish this off. We got one, well,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Nick's looking for it. If you are going to do
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: the Pod Therapy n C double A March Madness Tournament,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: make sure to get your bracketed.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 5: So the brackets are live as of this taping, and
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: I think you have until Thursday Thursday.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: To get when the main show airs. So for all
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: of you that are already in the Patreon, we already
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: posted a link to join this year's bracket. If you
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: were in the bracket last year, Smithy says, you've already
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: gotten a reactivation email. We all did, and Jacob, I
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: already saw that you picked your filled mine out.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right away.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: I saw.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: Some changes. Okay, you'll update that a little bit.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 5: But all the time, you know, I get the stress
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: off of like making sure I at least get it done. Okay,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 5: so it is now done, but I will go back
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 5: through and uh and change some picks as I look
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: at things.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: And if you're like, man, I don't and I'll change
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: them to the wrong picks. Oh yeah, of course that's
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: how that works. If you're like, I don't. I want
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: to do this because I want to be a part
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: of things the show does, but I don't know anything
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: about sports.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: You can just click auto auto fill. There's literally a
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: button that just says, yeah, you can auto fill this.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: There's one like.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: You can hit a button and it will just truly
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 5: randomly pick each game.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also completely you.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 5: Could also randomly pick it. You can pick it based
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 5: on you know, your experts. Mascots. Oh yeah, this mascot
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 5: would beat this mask. You could do that, no problem.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: That's fun.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, fill it out.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: And then we always talk about the rankings as the
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: tournament goes on because we enjoyed.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: And then we have our special host Challenge where the
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: four of us fight for sushi and.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: Of course get a better bracket than Whitney. She will
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: also buy you sushi. That's how that works. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: that's yeah, loser buys for everybody.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 5: Yes, so I mean it's really a lot funnier if
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 5: loser has to buy for everyone.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: That's that's better. Can you can't exactly?
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 5: Like you started to sit at people fifty bucks?
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 4: That's how I did it.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: One year.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: I just gave you a here, leave you alone.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: That was a cop out.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: It was Yeah, I think it was COVID, asshole. I
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: think there was a lot.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Going on before COVID. I don't care what it was.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 4: They canceled March Madness during COVID, they did. I believe
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 4: it's not in twenty twenty, right the first Well, that's right,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 4: because that was the year was going to get bumper stickered. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 4: they canceled it got almighty j Yeah, Jesus killed a
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: lot of people and saved me, which is very Jesus. Yeah,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 4: that's very God of.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: The Old test right up there with that Christian god trivia.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, right, made famous by Home Alone two, which
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: Tiger Electronics device recorded and played back audio often slowed
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: down or sped on. Oh.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 5: It was a tape recorder and had a little extendable
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 5: mic on and in the movie it made it seem
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 5: like extending that mic out gave it like super microphone.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he perfectly captured.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he would like perfectly capture a conversation that was
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 5: happening a mile and a half away because he extended
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 5: the little microphone out.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: And then the speakers on this thing were apparently amazing
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 4: because he would like rewind and hit yeah, and it
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 4: would scare five adults out of a hotel room because
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 4: I think a man's taking a shower and yelling at
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: the yes.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: When when an actuality.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 5: It was worse than this than the speaker on the
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 5: iPhone one like by Orders of Magnitude that had on
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 5: the way.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: I don't remember if I had one or if.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 5: I messed with other people, but yeah, it was. Yeah,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 5: it was really cool, was it. It was like a
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 5: talk man or something. Talk boy, talk boy.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 4: Good job, it is correct?
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: Whitney which Nintendo console launched in nineteen ninety six, introducing
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: three D gameplay in titles like Super Mario sixty four
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: and the Legend of Zelda Akrena of.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 4: Time, Oh, Karina of Time.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, it was such a piece of shit. Oh dude,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't I fucking love it? Am I thinking of the
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: wrong thing?
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 4: You're thinking of something that was a piece of shit,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: But it's.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Not this with all like the red and everything.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 4: No, that's Virtual Boy Yeah, Virtual Boy Blue that had
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 4: Mario Tennis. Yeah, and it was such a piece of shit.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: You're thinking the O comic game spear. Ah, that's what
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking of.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: From South Park.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this wasn't just n sixty four.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 4: Nintendo sixty four and maybe Mario sixty four fucking gave
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: it away.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 6: Perhaps maybe that shit, I know, even if that wasn't
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 6: in there is, Like I'm pretty sure this is Nintendo
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 6: sixty four.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: Which Nickelodeon game show famously slimed kids and had them
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: tackle messy physical challenges.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I fucking love this ship.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: What's the name of Mark Summers Double Dare, Double Dare.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: Double their Double Dare. Yeah.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: I had a T shirt in elementary school is a
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: double Dare T shirt, and so everybody thought I was
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: on the show at some point.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that sounds like an Iowa thing that I need
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: a double Dare T shirt. I just need to have
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 5: a double Dair T shirt in life.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 4: Send that into the show.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: Which trans large?
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say extra small?
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 3: Which transparent soda in the nineteen nineties promis a pure
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: co experience, but didn't last long on the show.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Crystal PEPs did you see on.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 4: The discord discord?
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: I was just after a.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: Conversation somebody posted a picture of them holding a crystal pet.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: For a few months ago.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 4: They said it was two years ago, but they were
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 4: still selling.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 5: They brought them back in the US for like a
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: super short amount of time, not too too long ago.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: I want to try it.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 4: I don't think I ever had.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 5: I remember as a kid thinking it tasted exactly like
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 5: regular pets.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: Like Jacob doesn't like PEPSI.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: I liked it because it was just different. Yeah, I
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: don't remember what it tastes.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 5: We would get them as kids because it was a cool,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 5: different thing, but we didn't love draking.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: Guys ever had taco pizza?
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, because I had like a taco bell.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: Here's a funny thing from pizza.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: This is no in the Midwest. This is the thing,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: and it's fucking amazing. I had two people this week
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: text me pictures of taco pizzas. They were eating. Where
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: do you Godfathers? Oh, Godfathers and actually Domino's back home
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: in Iola, they had a taco pizzas.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: I remember this young.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh my god, they're so good. But Godfather's pizza.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: My buddy Nate sent me a picture of it. I
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: swear to God, I can taste that picture.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: Papa Mercy Taco not like Bacon Bay.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: You got to make it up.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 4: Microwave won't anyway. The middle of Pizza.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: Frozen Whitney, which controversial nineties fighting game series, was known
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: for its digitized character graphics and.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: Fatalent mortal conduct.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: What we're the sayings when they'd be like the.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: Ice get over that, dude, that was such a cool.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: Game before n Sync and the Backstreet Boys took over,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: which which harmonious R and B boy band broke Billiard
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: records Billboard ninety degrees in the nineteen nineties, R and
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: B with hits like end of the Road and all
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: make You Love.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: Me, Love to You, You Me Boys to men, fucking baby.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: Love you. Yes.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 6: I was singing Saltan Pepa to Peter last night because he.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: Was like, please stop, please, the orders says, you can't
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: be here. How you get him to go to sleep?
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: The room?
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: Such a headache, babe.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 6: I guess he was saying something. He was laying in
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 6: bed and I said something. He goes, oh, that's none
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 6: of your business. And I was like, ain't.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: None of your business?
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 6: I was like, if she want to be a freaking
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 6: selling on the weekend, none of your business.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: And he's just staring at me. He's like, is this
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: a song? I'm like, yes, this is a song. Then
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: I had to play do you.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 4: Remember in Uh The Other Guys with Will Ferrell and
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: Mark Wahlberg, How the Boss is uh Michael Keaton and
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 4: keeps dropping tela captain you know you know?
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: No scribs you guys?
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: I don't want no scrubs. Scrubs. A guy can't get
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: no love from me.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Captain, you know, you're.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: He's like, what a you guys talking yet? And even
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: at the end, like somebody gets shot and he's still
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: doing it. It's a captain.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I imagine goes on.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: It was in a high school choir. We sang Boys
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: to Men's songs.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 5: We had a group of the guys that would do yeah,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 5: little little acappella boys to me was appella a capella
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 5: because we weren't like.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: A glee club. It was just like the school choir thing. Yeah,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: Boys to Men ruled.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 5: And I still know the like the bass parts to
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 5: a lot of those songs, just because I was.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 4: I thought when when you were asking that question, because
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 4: you led with in sync and backsh.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: I know who you were thinking of.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, New Kids on the Block. I thought you were
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 4: going to be like, Okay, so who's that And.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: It's like that's more eighties? Did you know that? Wait?
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: Somebody famous was in New Kids And we just discovered
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 4: this the other day and I think it might have
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: been Mark Wahlberg. No, it was in New Kids on
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 4: the Block.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, we were too young to know.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he remember my older cousins.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: My friends were all into Yeah.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 4: I remember all the older kids. Yeah, we're into Vanilla
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: Ice and new kids on the block. And I remember
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: like just trying to get it.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: We're not going to talk about Millie Vanilli?
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: Are we allowed to? Amazing?
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 4: So I don't know, are we the scandal so fresh?
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: As we wrap up the show, all the right stuff. Damn,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: that was so good. Oh oh oh. As we wrap
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: up the show, we want to remind you can sign
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 4: up at patreon dot com slash therapy. You can get
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: the extended show. It is extended, Brady. There's a whole
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 4: nother like portion of the show. Many would argue the
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 4: better part of the show the part where we're not
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 4: doing therapy. You're just hearing about our lives and enjoy
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: the show ad free a day earlier on the same
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 4: podcast app you're listening to us on right now.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: Luke Kids disbanded at ninety four. Oh they lasted.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I did not know that. Enjoy our discord community
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 4: in our weekly deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research roundups,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 4: and rants, all at patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 5: This week on the Patreon only show you literally hear
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 5: about my research.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I do.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 5: I do some scientific research on this week's Patreon yesh coat.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: It's done. Yeah, nobody said the researches is finalized. It's
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: never done, but you'll be taken some good first steps.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: Always ten years away from solving this controversial results.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: I'll need to see your break down, your methods, obviously obviously.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 4: Well at least excel spreadsheet.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: The pure reviewed paper.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: We want the pure review paper.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Also, the dog's reviewed.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: Here's how we're gonna here's how we're gonna fix this.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 4: If you are a listener right now, if you are
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 4: in our Patreon and you're on the discord, I'm gonna
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 4: ask all of you, go buy a hot pocket. Okay,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 4: go buy.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: Two hot pockets.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 4: Three but okay, you know what, let's go with three.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: No, you could do this all the same.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 4: Go in a Costco find the hot pocket aisle. Yeah,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 4: get a box of hot pockets. One goes in the
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 4: middle of your microwave.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: Eat it.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 3: That's no, No, you gotta you gotta temperature. Those are
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: too big, right, that's too big?
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: One hot pocket?
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: Yes, but one hot pocket is gonna. It's you gotta
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: use something small. Totino's pizza rolls on a psychopathza.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: This is science.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: You put one in the middle, you put one on
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: the outside, You run the experiment, and then you put
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: a thermometer in.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: Each I don't think you can. You can't.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to replicate results with more testers, but I
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 4: don't think that's a good way to do it, because
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: now they interfere with each other.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: They exist.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 5: So do we need to do We need to microwave
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 5: a cup of water in the middle of the microwave,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 5: take it out, measure the temperature, let the microwave cool
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 5: down back to room temperature.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 4: I think it always is, though, right, I don't know.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know that.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 5: We'll give it like a ten minute break with the
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 5: door open, and then you put you take another cup
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: of water. You put that in there on the edge,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 5: and you measure that temperatures.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 4: If you're listening, if you're a member of the Discord community,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 4: stop what you're doing right fucking now, A cup of water,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 4: microwaves drop everything.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: Also, don't use a metal co drop.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: And uh.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 4: Some new experimenters that will be joining us in this
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 4: have joined us at patroon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: Who's new to the therap party. I don't know because
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: my laptop just died. Awesome.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 4: Welcoming our new therapods.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: Dot com slash therapy.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 6: Get Nick a laptop battery all weekend laptop battery.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: I need a microwave. I could use some new carpet.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 4: Got things to do therapy We've got. Welcome new therapod,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 4: the dark Lord himself, Jim's Fasha's sticking around. We appreciate you,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 4: and new therapod Matthew Connor Welcome to the party, and
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 4: new therapod Ben Sherman also rejoining us at the therapod.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 4: Love all of you, and we'd like to thank the benevolent, revere, generous,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: and flagrantly pro therapy diehards who love you all so
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: much they give till it hurts, the therap partners, Dirty
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 4: Bee and Pickett.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: And we want to thank.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: Our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati, members of the
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: fan Club, the therap producers. Thank you, Jake Schneider, Meira,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 4: Robert Brownie Junior, Mint Smitty Scoop, Judy Schneider, Kayla Landsberry,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 4: Malia Leon cassab Mason Miller, Richard Fucking Macy, Carolyn Albert,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Sammy Scoop, Ben Stanley, Slap in
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 4: your Face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer t Mike Helm, Paris,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 4: Darren Cunningham, Lib Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar Falcon, Scoop Hey o,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 4: Oscar Swan ros A, Sonny Boy, Slurpecai, motherfucker, Sandra mcwoffle
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 4: Dan Martin, hen Marie Andrew Langmead, Emma Kaine, Alina Cody,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 4: The Lorian Guy, Sam Cone, Brady Millaychick and Gabriel Adame.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: And if you'd like to hear this episode uncut and unedited, Wow,
• 1:29:48
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• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: sign up?
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you don't have a script. Sorry, I think
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 4: it's doing pretty good.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all the time we have for this week's session.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 4: We want to thank our landlords, Matt Maddingly's ice Cream
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 4: Social Podcasts and thinks those of you who contributed to
• 1:30:06
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• 1:30:09
  Speaker 4: therapy is something to keep all of yourself. Share the
• 1:30:11
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• 1:30:13
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• 1:30:21
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• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: You want to submit a question of the show?
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 4: You do? You can ask anonymously at pod therapy dot net.
• 1:30:29
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• 1:30:33
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• 1:30:36
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• 1:30:37
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• 1:30:39
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• 1:30:41
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• 1:30:43
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• 1:30:45
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• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: Them right away.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 4: Next week's gonna suck if you don't. Yeah, that's right,
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 4: I'm at Trivia Day. That's Whitney.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: I'm Jim.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 4: Thanks Tom. See you for your apartment next week. That's
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 4: that's my Hey, great show, everybody, great show.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: We're good at this.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 4: We're really getting good at this.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: Bye bye.