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Louis Wong | The Christian Reeve Podcast #347 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:03
  Podcast. Today's guest is a writer,
• 0:05
  director and an actor. His name is Louis Wong.
• 0:08
  Welcome to the show. How you doing?
• 0:09
  Hello, Hello. Hello.
• 0:11
  Welcome. So like when did, when did you
• 0:15
  first get into film and directing?
• 0:17
  What did that journey take you? It's like, I basically, it's
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  like I was always interested in film and but like I was
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  currently in a country that's like, oh, I can't.
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  But now I moved to UK and it's like, oh, it's not university
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  now. It's like, so are you?
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  From originally? Where are you from originally?
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  I'm from Hong Kong, so it's, yeah, it's more like business
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  and economic, like place. And it's not, it's not creative
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  central. It's only until I came to UK I
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  was like, oh, I can explore my interest.
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  And it's like, and I saw university, so I get to be
• 0:54
  learned how to be a writer, director and actor.
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  I mean, in Hong Kong too, did it, was there no creative
• 1:00
  outlets at all or was it just because I know you said it's not
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  a centre of that. I, I understand that.
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  But like, surely there would have been like outlets or, or
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  like groups or something like that, you know?
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  Yeah, there is. But like it's not nowhere near
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  as you know, big as UK. It's like you have to be in like
• 1:22
  a specific position or like you have to get get accepted to a
• 1:26
  specific Academy just to be in like any creative field.
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  It's that difficult. So you couldn't just like, for
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  example, start making independent films on your own,
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  Like you just can do it. No, yeah.
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  And also, yeah, things have got to get approved by the
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  government. Really.
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  Yeah. So like if you and I went to
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  Hong Kong, now we just want to go film in the street and just
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  do like a quick short film. Like we've got to get approval
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  before we do that. Like for like low for locations,
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  of course, like everywhere does, but like let's just say some
• 2:03
  something sticker front does not like.
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  So that's why I. I, I understand in, in China,
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  Hong Kong, like it's, there is obviously different laws and
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  things are completely different like culturally and from the
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  government wise. But it's just interesting to me,
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  like how different it can be. And obviously it's, it's
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  completely foreign to me. Like I, I, I don't know at all
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  how it is. I hear stories from people,
• 2:24
  people that are from there, but it's just, I don't know, a
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  different world. Like, I mean, how, how does it
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  compare for you? Like how long have you been in
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  the UK? Now obviously finish your degree
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  and everything. So it's about 3 years, right?
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  Five years now. Five years.
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  Sorry, sorry. Five years.
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  Don't worry. So, yeah, how does it compare
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  for you? You know, you've been here five
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  years now. You've got a probably a very
• 2:50
  good understanding of, of the UK and what it's about and how
• 2:54
  things work. You're, you're still here.
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  You're you're staying. That's, you know, it's so you
• 2:59
  like it obviously, but like, how does it compare for you?
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  It's more like, OK, so Hong Kong, it's like really small and
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  there's not a lot. And trust me, I'm more like, OK,
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  even though my, when I'm growing up, I'm more like, I always
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  loved Western culture than my own culture, which is weird for
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  a lot of people I I've spoken to.
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  And so I just like always. So for me, I just prefer the UK
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  because there's more chances that there's more things to see
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  because I was like, oh, I can always do like something more
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  creative here compared to like Hong Kong, just like you are.
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  I got limited for a lot of areas.
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  And also you have to be like, you have to be specific, like
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  you have to be a lawyer, be a doctor, you have to be banking.
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  So it's and then here it's like, well, there's more things you
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  can do, a lot more. So how much exposure is there to
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  say Western media and culture and and like how, how do you get
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  access to it? Is it restricted or is it just
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  kind of just difficult to find, difficult to access?
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  Like how, for example, were you influenced enough to want to
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  come to the UK? So basically I came because it's
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  basically because the government's it's does it turn
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  bad? It's really bad, oppressed us
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  and so we have to busy came back, came here by virtually no
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  choice. So that's yeah, OK.
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  It's not. So was it?
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  It was a decision your your family made as a whole kind of
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  thing. Yeah, As a whole, so it's, it's
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  a hard decision, but yeah, so what's, what's the question I
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  guess. Sorry, sorry.
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  It's alright. I, I guess what I'm trying to
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  understand is, well, that that kind of flips things a little, a
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  little bit, because obviously that explains why you moved in
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  the 1st place other than your studies.
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  But I, I guess what I was trying to say is, you know, you already
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  had an interest in the UK in Western culture.
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  Like, how did you find out about Western culture?
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  Because I understand China's quite restrictive say on things
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  like Internet, you know, like you can't get access to certain
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  websites and there's alternatives like for social
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  media, like I think WeChat is one of them, if I'm not
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  mistaken. But obviously these things are
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  monitored and everyone knows that.
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  Everyone in the country knows that.
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  And yeah, I imagine people try to use things like VPNs or
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  whatever else. But I what I'm trying to say is
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  how did you get access to say, Western culture, Western media
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  in China? Is it is it freely available or
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  is it heavily restricted or is there any certain places you can
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  get access to it? Oh, that, that's easy.
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  Basically, I'm from Hong Kong, so we basically have a different
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  law than China. So basically we have access to
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  YouTube, Google and basically everything without a single
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  problem. That's that's a thing basically.
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  Also, we we always call ourselves Hong Kong instead of
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  China because we always love the town.
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  I've noticed this and it's, it always like I'm, I always
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  correct myself if I meet someone from Hong Kong, I'm like, oh,
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  sorry, sorry you're from Hong Kong.
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  But I like, I still, I'm still getting the grips with that
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  because it almost implies that it's like a separate nation
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  within a nation a bit like what's that nation?
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  Is it Catalonia that maybe I'm thinking of somewhere else?
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  There's like a region of Spain or somewhere like that where
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  they, like, consider themselves independent.
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  And is it the same with Hong Kong?
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  Like, are you independent from mainland China or is it kind of
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  more like, how does that work exactly?
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  It's OK. It used to work because it's
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  like basically because UK rule us and they promised like
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  there's and then after UK just returned us back to China just
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  like, OK, we operate to get a different law now.
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  So you can do so you can just do this do this.
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  Of course that basically they just say that freedom is
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  completely gone up for six years, six years ago.
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  It's a wow. But we but we can still have
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  access to YouTube, Google that is the same.
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  But like it's like, oh, but you could not basically if you want
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  to say bad things about government side.
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  Explains the push back on why people from Hong Kong are very
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  resolute in these things and why you get so many people from Hong
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  Kong versus say mainland China like that.
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  Explains a lot because it's, it's almost, it's, it'd be like
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  the equivalent, I guess of Northern Ireland versus Ireland.
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  Like people, people that don't know sometimes get it wrong and
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  they assume like that Republic of Ireland is part of the UK,
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  which it's not, it's completely separate, different nation.
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  But then you've got this part Northern Ireland, which is part
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  of the UK and it's like you cross the border, it's
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  completely different. You know, you go to you go to
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  Northern Ireland, it's like the rest of the UK.
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  You go to Republic of Ireland and it's it's a complete, it's
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  like a Europe standard European city.
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  Like anywhere else you would go in the world.
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  And obviously that is not just because of history and stuff
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  like that, but culture, culturally it's going to be a
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  lot more influenced. And bringing it back to Hong
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  Kong, I imagine it's it's the same like Hong Kong maybe is, is
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  more Western influenced versus the rest of China.
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  That be right to say. Yeah, absolutely.
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  It's like of course there, of course we of course we say there
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  was like, oh, it's all Hong Kong influence.
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  But we have a lot of mix between like British and China and every
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  other thing else. Because it used to be like Hong
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  Kong. It used to be like, you can go
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  here and just you can eat anything you wanted from
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  different culture. And so we are, we accept a lot
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  of different cultures. It just, yeah, it just changed a
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  lot nowadays. So, but basically if you step
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  between like Hong Kong and China, it's it's really
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  different. You can actually tell you like
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  different areas you can visit even it's a small place.
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  I've got, I've got one more question about Chinese culture
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  before we move out. I don't want to make the whole
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  show about Chinese culture, but I think it might be might
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  possibly be the first time I've ever had a Chinese person on my
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  show. It's not the first time I've
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  spoken about China on the show, but maybe the first time I've
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  had a Chinese guest. So there we go.
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  It's first, first time for everything.
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  I'm curious like what you think of say like Chinatown in the, in
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  the UK, because every city in the UK has it, London has it,
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  Manchester has it. Now, typically speaking,
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  Chinatown will have Chinese businesses run by people from
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  China. So it's, it's, you know, it's
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  just people from from back home running businesses in another
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  country, right? But then there's also things
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  that are put in place by people maybe that aren't Chinese that
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  are kind of trying to like mould this area and like, I, I wonder
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  what's it like for you coming to an area like that in another
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  country? Does it feel like back home?
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  Does it feel strange in some way?
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  Like what goes through your mind, say, walking through
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  Chinatown in Manchester, for example?
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  Wow, I can tell without much it's the things are a lot more
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  expensive than in Hong Kong. The same things, way more
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  expensive. So the import cost isn't it,
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  It's, it's it's the same with like any anything you get here
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  like like the the old Polsky Schlips, the Polish shop, same
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  thing. It's it's like 2/3 higher.
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  It's. Like, wow, yeah.
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  So I was like, oh, even if I want to go there, I'll be like,
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  they're so expensive I don't even want to buy anything.
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  Does it? Yeah.
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  Does it make you feel at home a bit or, or is it not like,
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  because I'll say this, when I lived in the UK, sorry, in in
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  Europe, in Estonia, I left for a while.
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  There was like a few places that were like, you know, they might
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  have like an Irish bar or like, I think there was even like an
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  English pub there. And I remember laughing because
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  like, their idea of an English pub was like something out of
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  like Sherlock Holmes era kind of, you know, And it was like, I
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  was looking around like, I was like, UK pubs don't look like
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  this. Like our pubs look like shells.
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  What what is that? This is too nice to be an
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  English bar. But it was quite, it was nice,
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  you know, I liked it. But what say you?
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  Like what what? What does it feel like in
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  Chinatown for you? To be honest, I don't even go to
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  China Town that much. I just go that place I.
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  Don't know. Yeah, my family just, yeah, The
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  only time I go there is because I was like, oh, my parents just
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  like, oh, do you want to go to Chinatown to go, you know, eat
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  some food? I was like, yeah, sure.
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  And. If you want.
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  Yeah most of the time I just have like regular pops, like I
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  don't drink but like I go to UK pops all the time because I love
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  the cultures here a lot more. Literally yesterday I was just
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  like I went to like 4 pops already and it's all in like the
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  same St. Damn you're a pub crew.
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  God Dance. So if I haven't done that for a
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  long time. Fair enough, fair enough.
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  Yeah, yeah, trust me, a Terry does.
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  In Hong Kong, if you want to go to pubs, you have to go to a
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  specific area in a city, which you have to go through like by
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  transport. And so that's got to be a lot.
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  So it's if you're going to pubs in Hong Kong, it's like good
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  luck, good luck. You've got to really commit, I
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  suppose. You've got to like be like, all
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  right, we're going to the pub. So I'm going to take a few days
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  off work. We're going to book a hotel.
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  We're going to, we're going to go to the bar.
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  I mean, I could see that in the UK if there was a particularly
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  nice place to travel to, fair enough.
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  But I could never imagine taking some time off work to be like,
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  let's go to Wetherspoons like that.
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  It's not happening. Oh, yeah, that.
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  Absolutely. He was like, Oh my God, no, it's
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  so weird. Yeah, because I haven't been
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  hung for a long time, only I've heard from people.
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  I was like, oh, how do you go to pops?
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  Oh, you have to book a room. And just like, oh, you hang up
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  in the room the entire time to do like karaoke and do like
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  gambling. And it's like, no, but you have
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  to book a room for the entire night.
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  I was like, OK, that's fun. It's crazy like like hearing all
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  these things about, about China as, as, as an outsider, like
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  I've never been. Everything I know is is from
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  media. So I'm completely ignorant.
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  Like the really the only reliable information I've ever
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  had is from people like yourself from there who tell me like this
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  is how it is. And it's, it's interesting
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  hearing how things have changed over the years.
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  It's, I don't know, like it's, it's concerning in a, in a lot
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  of ways as well, particularly when you hear about things like
• 14:11
  the social credit system and stuff like that.
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  Like I, it blew my mind because I remember that was like an
• 14:15
  episode of Black Mirror years ago.
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  And then to hear that that had actually happened in a country
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  and that people, for example, couldn't get a taxi because they
• 14:27
  didn't have like a high enough score or something.
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  Like, I don't know. And that they feel, it feels
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  like here in the UK and other countries, they're trying to do
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  that. Like it's not really worked in
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  the same way. Like if you have a bad score on
• 14:41
  Uber, you'll still get an Uber probably.
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  Like it's where you get turned away, you might get turned away.
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  I don't know. Most people just have like a
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  normal rating that, you know, I mean, like, I suppose if I, if I
• 14:52
  had like an Uber and like the rating, the guy's got one star.
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  I'll be like, maybe maybe I won't go with that guy.
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  Maybe I'll wait a bit longer, but I don't know, man.
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  It's it's all relative, isn't it?
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  Yeah, don't worry. It's it To be fair, I'm in Hong
• 15:05
  Kong. We don't have to deal with
• 15:07
  social credit. We, we don't have, we don't have
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  that thing. It's just China.
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  Also, we like to be called Hong Kong.
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  That's a different we we because in Hong Kong and China, we we
• 15:17
  just separate ourselves. So it's just interesting to me,
• 15:20
  like how that works, like, I don't know, I I just find it
• 15:24
  very interesting. But anyway, we will move things
• 15:27
  forward. We'll move it forward.
• 15:28
  Thank you so much for answering my questions about that.
• 15:31
  I appreciate you. So bringing it back to acting,
• 15:34
  film, directing, everything in between, what have been some of
• 15:39
  your better experiences as a director so far?
• 15:44
  It's weird because I think it's like when I'm that was directing
• 15:48
  my short film, like my shorts, my first short feat, like OK,
• 15:53
  first short fictional film, because I actually directed like
• 15:57
  a short documentary before and like also short plays.
• 16:02
  It's weird because I was like because when I was directing it,
• 16:05
  I was like, I'm I'm just a writer.
• 16:07
  I mean, I was writing before I came to Uki was I was just
• 16:10
  constantly writing online. I mean, it's on blogs.
• 16:13
  I I don't recommend anyone reading this.
• 16:15
  It's really bad. Hey, we've got to start
• 16:18
  somewhere there. Yeah, and then.
• 16:21
  But yeah, of course I already have the area of writing, but
• 16:24
  like because of directing, I was like, I chose my third year
• 16:29
  project to be like, OK, I don't want to run this script.
• 16:32
  I want to try and make a film before so I can like bring
• 16:35
  something to show the people after I graduate.
• 16:40
  And it's wild because, OK, my university is Bangor, which I've
• 16:45
  got to be honest here, way worse than other university in
• 16:49
  Manchester. Legit everyone I've talked to
• 16:53
  called shithole. I don't know what you mean, I
• 16:59
  mean I've I've heard nothing about it.
• 17:00
  I can't, I can't comment. But I will say that when it
• 17:03
  comes to university in general people make a like every uni has
• 17:09
  like hype for better or worse and often it's better not to
• 17:13
  like buy into the hype. Like for instance the UNI I went
• 17:16
  to, Royal Holloway, University of London sounds really posh
• 17:19
  doesn't it? It's not in London.
• 17:22
  It's part of a group of uni's, but it's not in London.
• 17:27
  But we benefit. We got like if we had jobs at
• 17:29
  the union, we got paid as they were in London.
• 17:31
  So yeah, most people genuinely base their decision to go to
• 17:37
  that university on the fact that there was this beautiful big
• 17:40
  building there that from the 1800s.
• 17:42
  And I'm like, what do you mean? What?
• 17:44
  What? Like yes, I agree it's
• 17:46
  beautiful, but you're going to base the next three years of
• 17:48
  your life on this building? Are you mad?
• 17:53
  And then like obviously with every uni, you've got some
• 17:56
  things that the UNI's better for and some things that are not.
• 18:00
  Like for instance, Loughborough uni, everyone's like, oh, it's a
• 18:03
  terrible uni, but great if you want to go teaching.
• 18:05
  So I don't know. Yeah.
• 18:07
  What's what's Bangor known for? Bangor University, I.
• 18:11
  Think it's the smallest city of a university, like legit you
• 18:15
  you've seen the city centre in like Manchester Piccadilly.
• 18:18
  Like, you know, all the time we go to networking because we're
• 18:21
  in the 53 too. That is way bigger than my
• 18:23
  university. The city, my university is
• 18:26
  already legit. People know each other.
• 18:29
  So it's a small city. I mean, it's also, well, so it's
• 18:32
  basically, it's not you don't get a lot of funding.
• 18:35
  And so so yeah, it's and also people a lot of rumors and a lot
• 18:39
  of gossips. That's a lot of problems.
• 18:42
  But yeah, I'm lucky to like basically not be there anymore.
• 18:48
  But I but hey, I made a film there.
• 18:51
  And to be honest, it's weird because a lot of people told me
• 18:56
  that I was like, you're way better than you expected.
• 18:58
  When I consider like, production and stuff.
• 19:01
  I was like, oh. Well, they were like, we thought
• 19:05
  you were going to be shit. Oh, thanks.
• 19:08
  Appreciate the very confidence there.
• 19:10
  Yeah, to be fair, it's more like, oh, you've done it better
• 19:14
  than me and I've been making films for a while.
• 19:17
  All that. Oh, wow.
• 19:19
  That's. I was completely shocked.
• 19:23
  I was most of the time I was. Of course, I write the script.
• 19:26
  I like, I made like, what, 17 drafts already.
• 19:29
  So of course, like everyone expect me to write, write well,
• 19:31
  because I'm a writer. Everyone knows that I'm a
• 19:33
  writer. And then when I was directing
• 19:36
  and I was like, OK, here's here's my script, right.
• 19:38
  That's my short list. Here's like production scare.
• 19:41
  I made everything on my own. And even though I.
• 19:44
  Yeah. So it would be fair to say
• 19:46
  you're a writer first, director second.
• 19:48
  Would that be fair? Yeah, that's how I introduce
• 19:51
  myself. And just like I'm a writer
• 19:52
  first. So so basically I have AI need a
• 19:56
  script that's ready Before I was like, oh, I've got get to go
• 19:58
  with this. So basically so I can't
• 20:01
  understand like what exactly what I wanted wanted, wanted
• 20:05
  myself to like what shots I want, what actors do I need?
• 20:07
  What costumes do I need? I want to understand myself 1st.
• 20:10
  And so it's like I just read my script.
• 20:12
  It's like OK. I want to cast actors.
• 20:14
  I want to cast, I want to cast these actors.
• 20:16
  I want to cast like, like with that, I want this shot.
• 20:19
  I want, I want a lot of like stable stuff on set.
• 20:22
  I think it's like people, it's like, oh, you got to have a it's
• 20:25
  I mean, I think there's of course, because the difference
• 20:29
  I've talked to a lot of people in Manchester who in Manchester
• 20:32
  told me that I was like, oh, you have to get funding.
• 20:35
  You have to get like a Kickstarter or you have like
• 20:38
  permits because I'm in well, so I was like, I don't have to do
• 20:42
  any of that. But also I have to work on
• 20:43
  several budgets aside from myself.
• 20:46
  I pay for my own pocket. So.
• 20:49
  So that's a problem. Also they never taught me how to
• 20:51
  do it. I guess it all depends on the
• 20:54
  scale of what you want to achieve.
• 20:56
  I mean, I've done a lot of, like, guerrilla film making
• 20:58
  before where, you know, it's like the old expression, ask
• 21:02
  forgiveness, not permission. Other times it's like, yeah, you
• 21:06
  got to map this out. You got to get permission when
• 21:09
  it comes to budgeting. I mean, I guess it depends.
• 21:11
  Are those people I've done films with where I would do films with
• 21:15
  them everyday for free because I love making films in general.
• 21:20
  And working with certain people is, is always like rewarding,
• 21:24
  you know, And with what we do, it's, it's a joy to do it, you
• 21:28
  know, But then of course it is a living and people need to get
• 21:33
  paid. And, you know, I guess it
• 21:37
  depends what you're do, you know what I mean?
• 21:38
  Like it's when it, when it's like a 2-3 week shoot and no
• 21:42
  one's getting paid. And you're asking actors to like
• 21:45
  perform in like rain and stuff and, and there's not even food
• 21:48
  on set, stuff like that. I'm like, yeah, this is not
• 21:51
  acceptable. It's like the reason that I
• 21:53
  don't do short student films because so many students I see.
• 21:58
  And I'm just going from experience here guys, I'm sorry
• 22:01
  to say, but so many students I see up and coming have 0
• 22:06
  intention of becoming film makers.
• 22:09
  Like just, there's such a unprofessionalism.
• 22:11
  I don't know, I think a lot of people see it as like, oh this
• 22:14
  would be a bit of fun at uni. And it's like OK fine.
• 22:17
  But like the real film makers do this for life and are engaged.
• 22:23
  They have an air of professionalism.
• 22:25
  Like if you've got actors and a whole crew on on set, like you
• 22:30
  need to take care of those people.
• 22:31
  You need to at the very least provide food and drinks for a
• 22:37
  shoot, you know, because it's like, I'm happy to work crazy
• 22:41
  hours, right? But I'm not going to do it if
• 22:44
  you've not provided like, basic coffee, you know what I mean?
• 22:47
  Like just little or like, there's been times I've done
• 22:50
  shoots where it's like, we've not taken a break in ages.
• 22:53
  And I'm like, are we going to take a break or what?
• 22:55
  And they're like, oh, yeah, I guess so.
• 22:58
  And it's like, this is you need to think about this stuff or
• 23:01
  like they never released the film.
• 23:03
  That drives me nuts. I'm like, what do you what do
• 23:06
  you mean you're never going to release the film?
• 23:09
  Like, isn't this what why we do this crazy?
• 23:13
  Don't get it? Don't Yeah, don't worry, because
• 23:17
  I spoke to every one of my classmates.
• 23:18
  The most conduct people in university is like all my
• 23:21
  classmates. Everyone has their own reason.
• 23:23
  For me, it's like I always want to release the films on.
• 23:27
  It's on YouTube, to be honest. You can you can watch.
• 23:28
  It's called a friendly project. I don't think it's like it's
• 23:32
  only have like 500 something feels, but like it's good
• 23:35
  enough. It's for my first film.
• 23:37
  It's like very good. And yeah, basically a lot of my
• 23:42
  friends had like because I'd spoken to love.
• 23:46
  Some of them are just like, oh, I just want to be a teacher, but
• 23:48
  I just wanted to like learn of some films.
• 23:52
  Yeah, one of them just like I want to be a fee FX artist.
• 23:55
  I want to like, understand how to do like 3D modeling so, but
• 23:59
  I've never done it before. So I'm just after university.
• 24:01
  I've got to do it. So it's fine.
• 24:03
  I think one of my classmates is weird because like, he's made a
• 24:07
  good point. From my experience, it's like he
• 24:09
  said originally he wants to be a filmmaker, so he makes a film.
• 24:15
  But three years he, he experienced how people who are
• 24:20
  in film industry are like and he, he just could not deal with
• 24:23
  those people anymore. He's just like, you know what, I
• 24:25
  just want to be a teacher who teaches film and he's happy with
• 24:28
  like he told his parents already.
• 24:31
  And of course some people I know are still like filmmaking
• 24:34
  because literally just last week I met some of my classmates
• 24:36
  again and we and we have a good chat and stuff and they're, and
• 24:41
  they spoken that they still want to go to a film career path.
• 24:44
  But like some people are just like, oh, I just don't, I just
• 24:47
  don't want to because we have various reasons.
• 24:50
  Some people don't even release that film their films because I
• 24:53
  think like one of them just want to be an actor, even though he
• 24:56
  directed and written his film was like, this is so good
• 24:58
  already on about you should release it, but it's fine.
• 25:01
  And then one of them just like, oh, I made this film because
• 25:04
  it's for my flatmates, my love letter to my flatmates.
• 25:07
  So then they they said that they did not want to release the
• 25:10
  film. So I was like, fair, no.
• 25:13
  I've, I've spoken to people on the show before about like how
• 25:16
  disheartening this can be. I mean, this is like year seven
• 25:20
  of me pursuing acting, music, etcetera, right?
• 25:24
  Shout out to Dan McGee. He was on the show once.
• 25:27
  He's a filmmaker, writer, phenomenal actor, done a bunch
• 25:30
  of films together. I'm sure he won't mind me saying
• 25:34
  this, that when you've been doing it this long, it can.
• 25:38
  And I know he gets disheartened about it sometimes.
• 25:41
  And you know, he works regular jobs and he's, he always does at
• 25:45
  least a few projects a year. He's got like millions of ideas.
• 25:50
  I love working with him. But like, sometimes it's just
• 25:53
  hard getting things done, getting people together.
• 25:56
  And when you've been doing it this long, sometimes it's hard
• 26:00
  to find the motivation. I know I get like demotivated
• 26:04
  all the time because you're trying to make all this progress
• 26:08
  every year on year and it feels like you're not getting
• 26:10
  anywhere. And then you wonder what's the
• 26:11
  point? And then people like me will
• 26:14
  come along after only a few years of knowing him and being
• 26:16
  like, you're amazing, you should keep doing this.
• 26:19
  And he's like, yeah, I've been doing this a while, man.
• 26:23
  And and like, now I get it as well after so many years of
• 26:27
  doing this. It's, I think it's just a
• 26:29
  passion that's got to be in you. And it goes in cycles.
• 26:33
  There'll be a cycle of not being motivated and then there'll be
• 26:37
  that cycle of being motivated again.
• 26:41
  But what say you when it when it comes to your motivations, what
• 26:44
  motivates you? It's weird because I think my,
• 26:48
  it's just like, oh, I just because I just want to be, I'd
• 26:52
  say different from everyone from my family and just like, I just
• 26:55
  want to be creative. I just, I just love art in
• 26:58
  general. So it's like, Oh, you know, I
• 27:00
  just don't want to be like a teacher or like something people
• 27:03
  every day do or just like I just want to do.
• 27:06
  I just want to do something creative.
• 27:07
  I just want to have my own voice, just like, Oh, I just I
• 27:10
  want to other. I want to write stuff.
• 27:11
  I want people to see what I write.
• 27:14
  I just want people to like to just know how I feel and just
• 27:18
  like what what I feel about love people because I love my writing
• 27:21
  and just like, well, it's a lot based on what I saw about other
• 27:26
  people. I love my friends.
• 27:27
  A lot of people. It's like there are no a lot of
• 27:28
  people who are like people are bad to me, people who who are
• 27:33
  used to be bad to me, but not they're they're not good, good
• 27:35
  to me now or and vice first. I love people just like friends,
• 27:39
  but like they're no longer friends for anymore, Just like I
• 27:43
  just want. I just want to write about them
• 27:45
  because in fact, my next store, my next scripts is a little bit
• 27:48
  just based on those ideas. That's when people understand
• 27:52
  like perspective, like humanity and, and just like, and for when
• 27:57
  it comes to like why I just want to like right and why I just
• 28:00
  want to be creative, Why I just want to keep going.
• 28:02
  But and all the same time, just like, I just want to stood out
• 28:06
  from like basically my own culture and just like even my
• 28:09
  family's expectations. It was like, well, I can, I'm
• 28:12
  sure I can do it in any kind of field.
• 28:15
  It just, it's kind of this area. Well, what do they expect of
• 28:19
  you? That's interesting.
• 28:21
  What are they? It's Asian, so basically it's
• 28:24
  like. No, I I get that.
• 28:25
  But like, do they, are they waiting for you to become a
• 28:28
  doctor or something? Or what's going on there?
• 28:30
  Absolutely. Before they, before university.
• 28:33
  Do you want to be doctors? And like, OK, so you, you've,
• 28:38
  you've gone to uni, you graduated, right?
• 28:42
  You've got, you've got a degree in film and theatre.
• 28:45
  So you know, you, you really are committed to this.
• 28:49
  They must see that, right? It must so accept you as like
• 28:53
  he, he, this is the career he's going for now, right?
• 28:56
  Yeah, they have to accept it now because I was like, yeah.
• 28:59
  I was like, oh, I graduated. So I was like, oh, I'm going to
• 29:01
  do this. I'm going to do this.
• 29:02
  I'm going to do this. I go to this networking event.
• 29:03
  I go to like I'm, I go to this podcast.
• 29:06
  I just told them I was like, OK, I'm going to do this.
• 29:08
  Please. I'm not going to do anything.
• 29:09
  You want it right now. I just like.
• 29:12
  Yeah, well, I respect you. I respect you, man.
• 29:15
  Like it's, it's good to, it's good to, to push things that you
• 29:18
  know, are right for you, even if people around you don't get it.
• 29:21
  Like I, I have the same. I think my family always kind of
• 29:25
  have been scratching their heads a little bit about my actions.
• 29:27
  But at the end of the day, as long as you're out there doing
• 29:31
  your thing, you're carefully over time moulding the life that
• 29:36
  you want. But it does take time.
• 29:38
  We unfortunately have chosen one of the hardest careers there is
• 29:45
  Jeremy, Larry, Jeremy. If it were poker, we, we, we've
• 29:48
  got the hardest hand to try and win with.
• 29:51
  But I don't know, man, I think that with this it, there's so
• 29:56
  much emotion that's contained within what we do and passion
• 30:03
  and it's, it's like it's almost like a non negotiable, you know,
• 30:07
  I feel like if you're going for like a standard career, you can
• 30:09
  kind of switch, chop and change all the time and it's fine.
• 30:12
  But with what we do, if you ever spend even a moment away from
• 30:17
  it, it's devastating. It's like I have to get back to
• 30:19
  doing it. Do you get that feeling as well
• 30:22
  when you've not done it a lot for a while?
• 30:24
  Yeah, I just like, I mean, to be fair, I haven't.
• 30:27
  It's weird because I was like after universe, like during
• 30:29
  university. The only script I've written is
• 30:31
  my basic, my own, just the desert.
• 30:33
  There's a script I was talking to you about.
• 30:35
  Like that's literally the only script.
• 30:38
  It's feels a lot more like dampening.
• 30:41
  But like, after this, I just write a like, just keep, just
• 30:45
  keep writing. I just keep writing.
• 30:47
  Writing a lot. Good idea.
• 30:49
  It's a yeah. It's a lot of like when you
• 30:52
  don't do a lot, it just kind of feels like, I just want to keep
• 30:55
  going. Like after you don't have any
• 30:57
  restrictions. It's weird because I mean, like
• 31:01
  my parents trust me, but it's like like, at least my parent
• 31:05
  just like allows me to do like, OK, you can do a Korea and
• 31:08
  stuff. My university was like, where is
• 31:10
  it? Oh, the small city in Wales.
• 31:12
  I was like, oh, OK. And then I was like, you have to
• 31:15
  write. I was like, how do you get
• 31:17
  Korea? Oh, you have to go to this
• 31:19
  theatre. Like theatre kid society in this
• 31:25
  Welsh theatre group was like, how much like 1 was it?
• 31:30
  And then how do you get films? Well, there's one production
• 31:33
  company there not not in not in that city, but it's like it's
• 31:38
  called round and round, but like you have to know how to speed
• 31:41
  wells. Oh, oh, OK.
• 31:44
  And of course I've worked on her films.
• 31:48
  I was like, it's not enough. You just honest.
• 31:51
  Honestly, at the end of the day, it's like I think me and a lot
• 31:54
  of my classmates, a lot of my friends classmates was like
• 31:57
  after this was like, we just keep making a lot more than we
• 32:00
  than we wanted. It's like, I think I've been
• 32:03
  talking to a friend like a few months ago and he was like, oh,
• 32:06
  I've been working on like 3D modelling, but like he just
• 32:10
  doesn't know how to do it after university.
• 32:13
  It's it's hard and but yeah, we just keep going because we
• 32:17
  wanted to. It's the best way forward.
• 32:19
  I mean, I, I think what you were saying there of just keep
• 32:22
  writing is, is, is spot on. Like, especially if you're not
• 32:25
  able to get things done right now, like right now I'm, I'm
• 32:29
  writing a lot of music like that.
• 32:32
  I want to get recorded, but I don't know when that will happen
• 32:35
  because obviously you need money to do it, but might as well keep
• 32:38
  recording so that when the time does come, it's like, I've got
• 32:42
  all of this stuff. You know, you don't want to be
• 32:44
  in that position where someone offers you an opportunity and
• 32:47
  you're like, oh, I've got nothing.
• 32:48
  Sorry. Oh, what were you doing that
• 32:50
  whole time? Be prepared, maybe.
• 32:55
  Basically. Where do you draw inspiration
• 32:59
  from? Like who or where do you draw
• 33:01
  inspiration from? That's simple.
• 33:04
  Basically for myself and basically everyone I talk to,
• 33:06
  basically even you, I was like I was talking to, I was like
• 33:08
  that's I'm already thinking of inspirations because it's like
• 33:12
  because more of a writing is drama based, like character
• 33:15
  driven. I just like to see like how this
• 33:17
  character reacts when you meet another character.
• 33:20
  So I just like draw inspiration from a lot of people I know from
• 33:23
  real life, a lot of people I've just spoken to like even once I
• 33:26
  really draw a lot of inspiration from you.
• 33:28
  I just, I listen to all our conversations and like every
• 33:32
  word. I was like, I understand why you
• 33:34
  are and how you are and what I understand who you are as a
• 33:37
  person already. So I was like, I just, I just
• 33:41
  start writing. I just start writing from that
• 33:43
  point because also fun fact, I don't have internal monologue.
• 33:45
  So I was like, I can just start writing from page one, like from
• 33:49
  how I I don't have to hesitate from like how we want, how I
• 33:52
  want, like, OK, how does it sound like just go.
• 33:56
  It's like it's so yeah, it's like also it's more that's a lot
• 34:01
  of people are inspired from. Also it's like more like where
• 34:04
  I've been because currently I study in Bangor, like OK, I
• 34:07
  graduated from Bangor. So a lot of writing currently is
• 34:10
  more like Bangor based. It's more like a lot of the
• 34:15
  cities, a lot of things that I recognize about the city that
• 34:18
  that influenced about the characters and love and in my
• 34:21
  experience. So I just heard a lot of my
• 34:24
  scripts beforehand. It's like, Oh yeah, university
• 34:27
  students in a small city. How do they how do they react?
• 34:31
  It's quite interesting because I think a lot of people are here
• 34:34
  just like how how do you inspire?
• 34:37
  What is it? What's the inspiration?
• 34:39
  I think they will, they, they will always tell.
• 34:41
  I think a lot of people just like it's, it's for myself.
• 34:45
  It's from a lot of people I know.
• 34:46
  I mean, even if you watch like, Pixar films, like Finding Nemo,
• 34:50
  what's the inspiration? Oh, it's actually the director's
• 34:53
  son. What about in The Incredibles?
• 34:57
  It's actually Brad, Brad Bird's wife that's inspired Helen.
• 35:01
  Yeah, it's a lot of inspiration from people you know, and like
• 35:04
  your cult. Yeah, your culture imbalance.
• 35:08
  That's how I draw my inspirations.
• 35:09
  I just talk to a lot of people. It's like I just told people
• 35:12
  just how they find the richest. Just go outside.
• 35:14
  You're not going to find anything here.
• 35:16
  I mean, of course he can find stuff on the Internet.
• 35:18
  It's like, I want to deal with this political issue.
• 35:21
  I want to talk about this person.
• 35:23
  But like, I'm going to tell you this much.
• 35:26
  At most you can Google him and you can talk, listen to a lot,
• 35:30
  lot of interviews, but you're not going to understand him
• 35:34
  enough to write anything. And trust me, that's how a lot
• 35:38
  of projects I realized was like, oh, I want to talk about this.
• 35:40
  I was like, I was like, that is, but I will not find anyone
• 35:45
  because I don't have anyone in mind.
• 35:48
  It's more like that is so one note.
• 35:51
  I was like, what's your understanding of that person?
• 35:52
  I was like, oh, no, he's bad, He's good.
• 35:57
  The one that was like, what? Then why are you rewriting this?
• 36:01
  Just just go and just go on a piece of paper and just say I I
• 36:05
  don't like this guy. You as you might as well just
• 36:07
  write this to me. I was like, yeah, I was like,
• 36:09
  this is just as much substance as what you just given to me.
• 36:12
  So it's like, so it's like why I just like my inspiration is just
• 36:16
  always people outside because they're always got a
• 36:18
  three-dimensional feel of someone.
• 36:20
  Even if it's negative. I was like, at least I
• 36:23
  understand why the why you are the way that you are.
• 36:25
  And trust me, it hurts a lot. It hurts a lot.
• 36:28
  But like I'd rather just do it that way.
• 36:31
  And it's rented a lot of risk. It's interesting that like sort
• 36:36
  of determining what makes people tick and, yeah, why people are
• 36:40
  the way they are. I mean, it's, it's a combination
• 36:42
  of many factors really, isn't it?
• 36:46
  Like for me, like I just stumbled into acting.
• 36:48
  It wasn't a choice decision. It made sense when I first did
• 36:52
  it, but it was, yeah. It's never something I imagined
• 36:56
  for myself. But then sometimes you got to do
• 36:59
  that. Sometimes you try something for
• 37:00
  the first time and it turns out to be like meeting an old
• 37:04
  friend, whereas other things feel like a a pair of gloves
• 37:08
  that don't fit. You know, it's but that's just
• 37:11
  kind of life really, isn't it? You you try until you find the
• 37:14
  pieces that put yourself back together, I guess in a sense,
• 37:18
  moving it forward. You also occasion sort of
• 37:22
  operate as a media critic. So I wanted to kind of ask you a
• 37:25
  little bit about that. Like why do you think it's
• 37:28
  important in society to have media critics, film critics,
• 37:31
  etcetera? What's what's the importance of
• 37:33
  that? It's for me, it's like, I want
• 37:36
  you to improve yourself. That's why it's like if you if
• 37:41
  imagine if someone just like told you your piece of work is
• 37:43
  flawless, there's nothing to improve, was like, are you going
• 37:45
  to improve yourself? I was like, answer, it's I for
• 37:50
  me, it's like, it's basically the same principle I applied for
• 37:53
  other people. It's not for me.
• 37:54
  I want you to be critical of my work because if you don't judge
• 37:57
  me, the how am I supposed to know what, what area am I
• 38:00
  supposed to improve upon? It's weird because like I refer
• 38:05
  a lot of films, a lot of shows, Of course, because I'm
• 38:07
  filmmaking now, it's like my interest is like gone down, gone
• 38:11
  down a lot more. Just I still keep watching a lot
• 38:14
  of stuff like, oh, I think this is good.
• 38:16
  I think this is bad. This is here's why I think we
• 38:19
  kind of need that so that people would just people would
• 38:22
  understand that this is how you could improve your power and
• 38:24
  yourself. This is the good thing that
• 38:26
  people can inspire from this is the bad things.
• 38:29
  But so please don't do it. So please don't do it.
• 38:31
  And This is why because like, if you don't have critics, how are
• 38:36
  you going to improve yourself in terms like writing or you're
• 38:39
  acting? Imagine it's like Tommy was so
• 38:43
  in the room was like, Hey, you're acting is flawless.
• 38:46
  You're acting is flawless and now and we will be like and a
• 38:51
  lot of people. Just.
• 38:54
  I did not hate her. I did not.
• 38:56
  And people will be like, wait, that is good acting.
• 38:59
  No one will be like, oh, that's good acting.
• 39:01
  He's acting as good as let's just say, OK, just it's like,
• 39:09
  oh, maybe just like any Oscar winners, like, oh, Anthony
• 39:13
  Hopkins, I was like, he's acting is actually as good as Anthony
• 39:15
  Hopkins. I was like, because everyone's
• 39:17
  crazy. I was like, well OK, that's not
• 39:20
  how it works. I guess it's a matter of
• 39:23
  reception as well. Like that obviously in this
• 39:25
  instance, yeah, he's not a good actor by comparison.
• 39:28
  But I mean, for every five people that say Anthony Hopkins
• 39:33
  is fantastic, they'll be like one person that's like, oh, he's
• 39:35
  terrible. And I think it's there's levels
• 39:39
  to this. Do you know what I mean?
• 39:40
  Yeah, it's, it's like, for example, I always take criticism
• 39:45
  on board, but I always consider the nature of the criticism,
• 39:49
  what's being said, who's saying it, and the manner in which
• 39:53
  they're saying it. And then I look at my own
• 39:55
  opinion because I'm always like highly critical of my own work.
• 39:58
  And I think you have to be, you have to be your, your own worst
• 40:02
  critic. But at the same time, you've got
• 40:04
  to be fair to yourself as well and accept that like, you know,
• 40:09
  you can't always be so hard on yourself.
• 40:11
  You have to give yourself breathing room, you know, and in
• 40:16
  the same way, I don't think you can always.
• 40:18
  We take everything that everyone says negatively as as being like
• 40:22
  a true reflection. It's, it's, it's comments.
• 40:26
  It's tough to consider, but that's that's what it is.
• 40:28
  Yeah, it's it's hard because it's like, because for people
• 40:34
  who know I'm really harsh, but like I'm only harsh if you, if I
• 40:38
  ask you, Are you sure about this?
• 40:40
  Do you want me to be harsh? It's like everyone might be the
• 40:43
  first to just like, you're really harsh, like you for it.
• 40:47
  Literally some person like a friend of mine, just like, can
• 40:51
  you read my script? I was like, yeah, then here's my
• 40:54
  comment. And he was like, you know what?
• 40:55
  Just just be honest with me. And just like, OK, here's all
• 40:59
  the plot holes. And I mean it's.
• 41:03
  It's a fairpoint. Do you know what I mean?
• 41:05
  If you're, if you're giving someone, you're working and
• 41:07
  you're saying, what do you think, right?
• 41:10
  You can't then get upset when they when they're like, oh, it's
• 41:13
  shit and here's why. Do you know what I mean?
• 41:16
  Like because you asked, you know, I mean, if you said not,
• 41:21
  no one would ever do this. But if you said, Hey, can you
• 41:24
  please tell me what you think about my work?
• 41:26
  But only say positive things, they're going to say, well, no.
• 41:30
  And also what would be the point?
• 41:33
  It's like, I was like, oh, OK, Then that was like, I'm sorry,
• 41:36
  you shouldn't be an artist. You shouldn't be.
• 41:37
  You shouldn't be creative. It's like, because if you can't
• 41:39
  take, you can't take criticism. I mean, that's true.
• 41:42
  Getting motivation is half of it, but what about criticism?
• 41:46
  That's the part you improve yourself.
• 41:49
  Of course you have of course if someone just like, oh, it's just
• 41:52
  a cunt. So it's like tears, like
• 41:53
  criticism. Everything you do is bad.
• 41:54
  Was like, of course, just ignore that guy.
• 41:56
  But like, what if that guy is like your friend and he just
• 42:00
  like, oh, I think this area, it's not good.
• 42:03
  This area, it's good. I think you can improve this
• 42:05
  area by doing this and this. I was like, but if you're not
• 42:09
  going to listen to that, I was like, why are you going to be
• 42:11
  creative? You're not going to listen to
• 42:12
  it. Just like just go, just go be a
• 42:14
  free year or just like grow a bunch of scribbles like and just
• 42:17
  get praised by it like. This is the argument I have with
• 42:19
  people online a lot of the time where where people will say
• 42:22
  something really horrible and I'll be like, what's wrong with
• 42:26
  you? And then they'll be like, you
• 42:27
  can't take criticism. And I'm like, no, no, no,
• 42:30
  criticism is, hey, I didn't really like this video, but I
• 42:33
  think like, you could tweak this and maybe it'll be a bit better.
• 42:37
  Da da, da, da. That's fine.
• 42:39
  I could count on my fingers how many times I get negative
• 42:42
  criticism like that. Most of the time the criticism
• 42:45
  is this is awful. This is like watching paint dry.
• 42:49
  I wanted to jump off a bridge after watching this.
• 42:51
  Like, OK, well, you're just a horrible human being then,
• 42:54
  aren't you? That's not that's just you mean
• 42:57
  you're just trying to stop me from doing what I do and I'm not
• 43:00
  going to listen. Big difference between the
• 43:03
  levels of you know what I mean? Like if you're just being mean
• 43:07
  for the sake of being mean, then you that's not criticism.
• 43:10
  Criticism is like, I would say constructive.
• 43:14
  I think true criticism is constructive.
• 43:16
  And I'm not saying you have to go on like some big essay,
• 43:19
  dissertation and break something apart.
• 43:21
  Like if you just say, oh, I kind of found it a bit boring and you
• 43:25
  say, OK, why did you find it boring?
• 43:27
  They're like, oh, I just felt like the plot was a bit slow and
• 43:30
  it was uninteresting. That's fair.
• 43:33
  It, you know, it doesn't have to be like a huge, huge comment,
• 43:37
  but I think you do have to explain just a little bit, you
• 43:41
  know? It's weird because like I of
• 43:43
  course, even in films nowadays, like like you're just like, oh,
• 43:47
  this is basic. I might as well watch paint dry.
• 43:49
  Of course you, you have to be like encounter some work like
• 43:52
  this. Like how do you encounter this?
• 43:54
  For me, it's like, if I, if you tell me this, my work, it's
• 43:58
  like, might as well watching paint dry.
• 44:00
  It's better or even better if you, if you, I might as well
• 44:03
  watch paint dry and watch your work.
• 44:05
  I was like, OK, now list out all my problems, Like what's what
• 44:08
  problems? The character, the plots.
• 44:09
  If you list them down and you have a reason to, to say that
• 44:14
  way, I will listen because I was like, there's a lot of films
• 44:17
  like, you know, Star Wars sequels, No one likes that.
• 44:20
  Or at least The Rise of Skywalker.
• 44:21
  No, it was like that one was like bashed by everyone and
• 44:25
  everyone, just like it's bad and then everyone.
• 44:27
  Was it, was it not the Last Jedi that that was the one that was
• 44:30
  really destroyed? I felt like Rise of the
• 44:32
  Skywalker was kind of mixed, but Last Jedi that was the kind of 1
• 44:37
  where everyone was like. This sucks.
• 44:39
  It's weird because I heard a. Lot.
• 44:41
  That's where it started. For me, it's like I, I just like
• 44:44
  all three of them. It's like, yeah.
• 44:48
  But the first one, the first one was alright, but then that was
• 44:50
  just a remake of the original film.
• 44:52
  So it's like, how can we make a good film?
• 44:56
  Let's make the remake the original.
• 44:58
  Great, good idea. Nostalgia.
• 45:00
  Here's money. I was like, OK.
• 45:02
  And of course. Everyone, it created intrigue
• 45:04
  and then they just kind of varied afterwards.
• 45:07
  Yeah, of course, The Last Jedi, I think it's like perfect when
• 45:12
  it comes to like, but I'm just saying The Rise of Skywalker
• 45:15
  because I don't think anyone just like that's a good movie is
• 45:17
  I've never heard a single soul to talk about that.
• 45:20
  The Last Jedi, you still hear someone online just defended it,
• 45:23
  like for say, just all three sequel trilogies as I see as a
• 45:27
  coherent story. No one be like that.
• 45:30
  Yeah, that's coherent. I never heard a single soap talk
• 45:33
  about that. And it's like.
• 45:34
  And but The thing is, we all offer criticisms like here's why
• 45:39
  that's like. Because like, oh, because this
• 45:41
  movie ignores this part, This movie ignores this part, this
• 45:44
  movie ignores this part, and even movie itself ignores this
• 45:47
  part. I was like, oh, it's more like
• 45:51
  how? What kind of racism do you take?
• 45:53
  It's like other others Fallot or just who's this?
• 45:57
  Star Wars is a good example because when you think about
• 45:59
  that trilogy, most of what people were saying was very
• 46:03
  toxic and, and just kind of attacking it like, oh, it's not
• 46:07
  what we wanted. Screw this.
• 46:08
  I hate this. It's so shit.
• 46:11
  And I, it was really difficult to sift through it and find the
• 46:13
  people whose criticisms were a bit more constructive.
• 46:19
  From what I can see. It's like, it's like you say, it
• 46:22
  wasn't coherent. And a lot of that was to do with
• 46:24
  having different directors, different visions.
• 46:26
  Like they tried something ambitious with the second one.
• 46:32
  I, I personally wasn't a fan, but like, I, I saw what they
• 46:36
  were trying to do. They were trying to, they were
• 46:38
  trying to do something different, a bit arty.
• 46:40
  It's fine. Like go for it tries to.
• 46:42
  It just wasn't what I guess the fans wanted, right?
• 46:46
  So then someone came in and Rise of Skywalker's was supposed to
• 46:50
  be like recovering it. And yeah, I just don't.
• 46:54
  I think it would have been better to to go with what
• 46:57
  they've done in the second movie, you know, continue on
• 47:01
  that thought process since that's what they started, you
• 47:04
  know, see it through. But instead they did a bunch of
• 47:07
  reckon stuff like Return of the Emperor was just like, why?
• 47:12
  What is this? Just feels lazy.
• 47:17
  It felt lazy. It felt like a lazy film.
• 47:19
  And I think when you're ending a trilogy, you want to go out with
• 47:22
  a bang, you know? And it just felt like it went
• 47:25
  out like, as a bit of a wet fart, really.
• 47:28
  Just just a bit, you know, Like, I think the biggest problem with
• 47:31
  the trilogy above all else is that I don't think it has any
• 47:36
  replayability. Like, I saw them all once.
• 47:39
  I don't need to ever see them again.
• 47:41
  I don't, yeah. If I do a marathon, I'd just be
• 47:44
  like, can we just skip these? I I try to watch, I try to watch
• 47:50
  the secret trilogies like all at once, which is my second field
• 47:53
  of all the films, even the first.
• 47:56
  Even when I was watching The Force Awakens, I was like, Oh my
• 47:59
  God, I had to keep continuing because I was like 1.
• 48:01
  No, I know that none of them has got to get answer anyways.
• 48:05
  And two, I'll be like, Oh, you're just redoing it, but like
• 48:08
  worse. I was like, oh, I think, I think
• 48:13
  a lot of people just like here, a lot of people just like,
• 48:15
  here's the part I don't like. It's like, good question for
• 48:19
  another time. I was like, yeah, what's the
• 48:21
  other another time? Oh, it's in the comics.
• 48:24
  Oh, it's a novel you have to buy separately.
• 48:27
  But then why am I watching a film?
• 48:31
  You might as well just tell other people just just just do
• 48:32
  their work and it's for part of material and second film.
• 48:37
  I was like, Oh my God, for film, you know what, at least I have a
• 48:42
  friend there's and it's funny when we're making jokes about
• 48:45
  it, it's hard. It's hard.
• 48:48
  But like I think the thing it's like, I think those three films
• 48:52
  just like inventive of the fact that you can't be positive all
• 48:55
  the time. You just like you can't have to
• 48:57
  be negative so someone would hear about it and so you can
• 49:01
  always improve yourself. I think it's like, of course
• 49:04
  there are people you shouldn't listen to.
• 49:05
  Like if you if those people just attack the actors.
• 49:09
  Yeah, I didn't know what that was about.
• 49:11
  There was an actress in the second or the third.
• 49:15
  She played one of the supporting characters.
• 49:19
  I can't remember her name exactly, but she she's a fine
• 49:22
  bit of light relief character. And people just went for her.
• 49:26
  And it's like, I do. I I mean, this has always been
• 49:29
  the case, though. People, let's say if you play a
• 49:32
  villain, people think you're really that person.
• 49:34
  It's like, are you stupid? This is not real.
• 49:37
  It's pretend. You know what you never did?
• 49:40
  Like Like make pretend when you were a kid.
• 49:45
  Like it's not real, but people are idiots unfortunately.
• 49:49
  Those people was like just ignore those people.
• 49:51
  I'll be like just ignore those people and just go with like why
• 49:54
  is I would just like OK, why is this character bad?
• 49:56
  I was like, it's in the right thing.
• 49:57
  I was like, This is why. This is why.
• 49:58
  This is why The thing is actually meta per like a meta
• 50:01
  artist who worked on the Force Awakens storyboard.
• 50:05
  Really. It's like, it's like Bangor
• 50:07
  University. Just like here's a person who
• 50:09
  worked on Star Wars Force Awakens and he was like, I do
• 50:14
  not like the film I worked on. He just sent it to me.
• 50:18
  I was like, he he's like, he's like black person and he was
• 50:21
  like, I do not like he's a clown.
• 50:24
  I do not like Ray. I do not like anything I do not
• 50:27
  like. And he told me the entire
• 50:29
  process like it's a mess. I do not even understand what's
• 50:31
  happening behind the scenes. All that I can, I can understand
• 50:35
  his sentiments because Star Wars at that point had not been in
• 50:39
  the cinema for like a long time, maybe like a decade or
• 50:44
  something. So it's exciting.
• 50:47
  You know, it's like, oh, cool, new characters, new generation,
• 50:51
  maybe we'll see old characters. Like there was a lot of
• 50:53
  possibilities there. And I do think they set things
• 50:56
  up. They set intrigue in the first
• 50:58
  film. You can't deny that.
• 51:00
  But I know what they made when they say like, oh, they made
• 51:03
  Finn kind of seem like a bumbling clown.
• 51:06
  There was an error of that, not completely, but there was an
• 51:12
  error that I can see why that might that guy might feel that
• 51:15
  way, certainly does feel that way throughout the rest of the
• 51:18
  trilogy. The fact that we, we never get
• 51:20
  an ending to Finn's, you know, for sensitive stuff like that,
• 51:25
  they just ignored it. I'm like, oh man.
• 51:28
  And then you barely see him the rest of the films.
• 51:30
  So he's built up with this big character in the first one and
• 51:33
  then just kind of discarded in the later films.
• 51:36
  Yeah. It's just frustrating.
• 51:38
  Yeah, it's weird because if you hear John Boyega's interfere,
• 51:42
  like even just like a comments, he was like, I do not want to
• 51:44
  work on those films again because because I think we even
• 51:47
  John Boyega knows he's like, oh, you just don't care about my
• 51:50
  character. You're just making him like I'm
• 51:53
  just going to scream brain. It's like he just like I think
• 51:55
  one of the Twitter is like, oh, do you enjoy the films?
• 51:58
  Like I think he sets, like I enjoy the paycheck.
• 52:02
  This is over. Oh yeah.
• 52:04
  That's the thing, as an artist, you, you want your character to
• 52:07
  have a clear story. Like to just be discarded is, is
• 52:10
  pointless. You know, Like whenever I'm
• 52:14
  playing a character, I want things to make sense.
• 52:16
  You know? I don't, I don't care if my
• 52:19
  character is successful or not successful or whatever.
• 52:21
  What I care about is, is the story consistent for this
• 52:25
  character? Does it make sense?
• 52:27
  You know, otherwise it's just, it's just that what we did, it's
• 52:31
  a waste of your time at the end of the day.
• 52:34
  Yeah, it's it's more like it's like I just, we just want
• 52:38
  something. I just, we just want to make
• 52:39
  something good or just like even if you're like good for people,
• 52:41
  it's like, I think the people just want to believe that your
• 52:43
  work it's good. Of course it sucks that it's
• 52:46
  like, of course it's bad that if people think that, oh, it's bad,
• 52:49
  but like it's like, oh, OK, but at least I have fun.
• 52:52
  But if you go on this project, it's like, oh, I actually do not
• 52:55
  like to make it. I like to get paid for it.
• 52:58
  I was like, Oh yeah, I think you messed up in the in the first
• 53:02
  level already. It was like, as artists, you
• 53:05
  messed up you. No one believes your work.
• 53:10
  I mean, that's powerful, Yeah. You want people to believe in
• 53:13
  what you're doing if it doesn't invoke, evoke an emotional
• 53:17
  response. I mean, that's the thing, isn't
• 53:19
  it? I think for a lot of people, the
• 53:21
  sequels evokes apathy, which is is worse than the hatred because
• 53:27
  hatred implies like some people like it, it's divisive, it's
• 53:30
  polarizing. You're getting an emotion.
• 53:33
  But if it's just apathy, like I don't care, whatever, that's
• 53:37
  probably the worst thing you can get as a response to your work.
• 53:42
  Just just disinterest, whatever, I'll take it or leave it.
• 53:47
  Yeah, I was like, oh, well, as artists, I mean, that's of
• 53:50
  course directors like you, you get blockbust studios if you
• 53:54
  failed, of course, if you're just an actor, just like, or
• 53:59
  just someone working beyond this.
• 54:00
  So you'll just got this more, more, more opportunities.
• 54:03
  Like, no, no of them. You gotta be like, but like,
• 54:05
  well, at the very least for people for like P As for like
• 54:10
  DPS, like, well, at least I can do other stuff and no one knows
• 54:14
  my name at the very least. I mean I do not like it, but
• 54:19
  like it is no one knows that I worked on that.
• 54:24
  A couple of final questions for you to wrap things up for today.
• 54:27
  What has writing and directing taught you about life?
• 54:31
  That's a good question. It's more like, honestly, it's
• 54:35
  more like understanding a lot more people because when I was
• 54:38
  working, it was well, originally, It's like always AI
• 54:42
  always have like a really simple feel on life.
• 54:46
  Like I think R should be this way.
• 54:48
  I think life should be this way. And then when I just got to it,
• 54:51
  I was like, things are a lot more complicated and I have to
• 54:55
  learn how to be like, OK, I'm really critical, but like I
• 54:57
  learned to like how to respect other people's work.
• 55:00
  Well, not being critical. Trust me, it got me a lot wrong
• 55:03
  ways beforehand. What I told me.
• 55:05
  It's weird because like somebody who cared about you do care
• 55:10
  about you. Like I told you recently, my
• 55:12
  friend of my friend is like, he knows I'm a writer.
• 55:14
  He knows that I'm a critical. He's like, I just like, hey,
• 55:18
  Kate, look what I like why my work?
• 55:19
  And I was like, yeah, I read the.
• 55:20
  I was like, you know what, just just be that honest with me.
• 55:23
  What do you think of it? I was like, do you just want to
• 55:27
  learn that some people do appreciate your work and people
• 55:31
  will do lend your helping hand. At the same time, you just
• 55:34
  learned a lot of like people who does not like you for who you
• 55:40
  are to begin with, which I learned the hard way.
• 55:44
  Basically, it's it's weird. It's because I'm from Bangor, so
• 55:48
  everyone knows each other and that's where I learned a lot the
• 55:51
  majority and I already learned that.
• 55:53
  OK, who cares about me? Who pretends to cares about
• 55:56
  pretend to care about me. It's hard, but like, I mean,
• 56:03
  that's how I inspire all my writing from but like it's hard,
• 56:05
  but at the same time, it's just that's how I learned because
• 56:10
  I've worked on a lot of people's projects.
• 56:12
  A lot of people just still love that I help them.
• 56:16
  That's how they return. My favorite, just like one of
• 56:19
  the girls was like she never OK. She acted like briefly and I
• 56:25
  just asked her because we I'm run.
• 56:27
  I'm I'm currently in less than one role.
• 56:29
  I was like, hey, do you do you want to be a main actor?
• 56:32
  That's my film. That's a film I'd mentioned.
• 56:35
  And she was like, yeah, I'll give it a shot.
• 56:39
  And she did great. And so in return, I just helped
• 56:42
  her film and she's like, I'm going to be an actor here for
• 56:45
  you. Dancing for three minutes
• 56:47
  straights. I was like, do I like it?
• 56:49
  Well, I enjoyed the process. I'm not the answer though, even
• 56:53
  though I do music theatre. That's ironic part.
• 56:57
  But yeah, it's like I've got, it's more like a lot of people
• 57:01
  appreciate you, do appreciate you.
• 57:04
  And a lot of people who don't just like, well, they're not
• 57:07
  going to be here your entire life.
• 57:09
  There's always more opportunity. Because it's weird because I saw
• 57:14
  a lot of people I still spoken to, a lot of people I still
• 57:17
  worked with. Of course, like you're not going
• 57:20
  to talk to a lot of actors after the film is gone.
• 57:22
  They're just doing you a favour. And some are just like, Oh yeah,
• 57:26
  I just want to work here. But someone just like, well, I
• 57:29
  want to be keep talking to you. And it's like, and yeah, it
• 57:32
  does. Like I still talk to the person
• 57:34
  who who did like DP for my film. I still talk to the person who
• 57:37
  just sound for my film. I still talk to the actor,
• 57:41
  actress. I talk to you about.
• 57:42
  It's like a lot of people do care.
• 57:44
  A lot of people just want to like, oh, I just want to help
• 57:47
  you once. And a lot of people just like, I
• 57:49
  don't care about you. But like, it's hard.
• 57:52
  But like a lot of people, it's just life that and you just,
• 57:59
  it's complicated, but there's always people who cares about
• 58:03
  you. There's always people just just
• 58:05
  not just like, what could I do about it?
• 58:07
  You just have to keep moving forward.
• 58:08
  Absolutely. What's the best advice you've
• 58:10
  ever received? Like in general or just in film?
• 58:14
  Anything, whatever comes to mind, I think it's.
• 58:17
  More like sentiments. Like I think I was talking to a
• 58:20
  friend and I was not in a good mood.
• 58:26
  Like I'm not going to tell you what, like what's what's what
• 58:29
  I'm talking about. It's like they say I've gone
• 58:31
  through like some serious stuff and he was like, you did not do
• 58:35
  anything right. I was like, no, I was like, if
• 58:38
  you did not do anything, you'll be fine.
• 58:39
  You'll be fine in life. Of course I get the sentiments
• 58:44
  like, well, it's like, of course you're not going to be fine
• 58:47
  right now or like or like in certain time, but like in
• 58:51
  general, you got to be fine if you just did not do anything
• 58:54
  wrong. Like and then that's the moment.
• 58:57
  It's like, Oh, people who who knows you, who know that you do
• 59:02
  not did not do anything wrong. Because it's weird because I
• 59:05
  think I conference here is shit. And it's like, no, like to a
• 59:08
  point I was like, Oh, no one's got to believe me.
• 59:09
  And I was like, everyone's like, Oh, we believe you think without
• 59:13
  saying that, without even explaining to myself, I'll be
• 59:15
  like, Oh, so my best, my best advice from someone, it's like,
• 59:21
  you'll be if you did not do anything, you'll be fine.
• 59:27
  It's like, and it's like compared to the worst as far as
• 59:30
  I get, it's more like, I think the worst as far as I get, it's
• 59:35
  people are allowed to feel any way they want it.
• 59:40
  I was like, yes, technically speaking, that doesn't, that
• 59:45
  doesn't mean that you're, that doesn't mean what you feel.
• 59:47
  It's correct. I mean, it's like you can't be,
• 59:49
  you can't feel correct that Oh, this kid got burned.
• 59:54
  OK, it's a bit extreme, but like if you feel good about that was
• 59:57
  like, no, that that was like, what does it tell you about a
• 1:00:01
  person? You're not a good person.
• 1:00:03
  I'm sorry. I was like when people are
• 1:00:05
  allowed to feel though, it's like it's just a contrast.
• 1:00:07
  Like, yes, I did not do anything wrong.
• 1:00:11
  But you know, if people are just like feels the way that I did, I
• 1:00:14
  did the wrong. I was like, that's their
• 1:00:17
  problem. I'm sorry.
• 1:00:19
  It's like you just have to keep moving forward knowing that.
• 1:00:22
  People, it's like a lot of people appreciate you and
• 1:00:26
  knowing that you just did not do anything wrong and you can keep
• 1:00:29
  moving on because like, you have, no, you have no regrets.
• 1:00:33
  And you just at this point it was like, Oh yeah, I, I choose
• 1:00:37
  the people I want to care about. Which to be fair, I'm still
• 1:00:40
  learning because every time I return to banker, which is
• 1:00:43
  literally just last week, I just, I just shortened the list
• 1:00:45
  of people I want to see. Yeah, it's hard.
• 1:00:49
  It's difficult. Yeah, it's not a it's hard.
• 1:00:54
  But like, well, I miss, I miss, I miss a lot of people.
• 1:00:59
  Trust me, I do miss a lot of people.
• 1:01:03
  But like, as a writer, I saw the signs.
• 1:01:07
  I learned to observe. So it's like I already saw all
• 1:01:10
  the red flags beforehand when you analyze it.
• 1:01:14
  So it's like that's and when you return, like people would not
• 1:01:17
  appreciate the same way because like, oh, you're no longer
• 1:01:19
  sitting with us. I wrapped other connections.
• 1:01:23
  I mean, I think that I learned that the hard way with the
• 1:01:25
  friend, which I've got based my script around her.
• 1:01:30
  It's difficult, but like, that's how I want to get my closure.
• 1:01:33
  It's a hard, it's a hard way. But like, I know I did not do
• 1:01:36
  anything wrong. It's like she just feels the way
• 1:01:39
  that she is now. And yeah, I, I saw the sign.
• 1:01:43
  Trust me. I if you go to Bangor, I just
• 1:01:45
  like, I just don't recommend John Theatre.
• 1:01:49
  They're not for my experience. They are like really
• 1:01:55
  ecosystemical. And also, I still hear a lot of
• 1:01:58
  like, bad things about that. What's the biggest life lesson
• 1:02:01
  you've learned so far? Well, I'm 22, so it's like I
• 1:02:05
  haven't got a lot of life lessons yet, but I think it's
• 1:02:11
  hard. It's harpiest currently.
• 1:02:14
  Right now it's, I think one of my friends said that it's like
• 1:02:19
  university might feel a big part of your life because you've been
• 1:02:23
  there for three years. Belfer is not that big.
• 1:02:27
  It's like, because he said that when he told me.
• 1:02:34
  He's a 30, he's a 30 year currently.
• 1:02:36
  He's 31 years old now. He's still a friend of mine.
• 1:02:38
  We still speak to each other and he's didn't, he's been in like
• 1:02:43
  life before. He joins university studies
• 1:02:45
  university, like same degree as me.
• 1:02:48
  And he said, and it's like, and before I left, he told me that
• 1:02:52
  it's like, it might feel a big part of her life, but like it's
• 1:02:56
  not going to be a big part. It's you're just not going to
• 1:03:00
  feel. And you got a love journey, a
• 1:03:02
  love journey I have. You just have to keep trying.
• 1:03:06
  Trust me. I just right now, I'm still
• 1:03:08
  trying to figure it out how to be a writer, how to work on the
• 1:03:11
  people's film in Manchester. I legit don't even know.
• 1:03:16
  It's like, I guess I keep applying.
• 1:03:17
  I just keep texting people, but like, OK, who should I text?
• 1:03:21
  That's like, because I'm not the person, trust me.
• 1:03:23
  I'm not the person who likes to text people.
• 1:03:26
  That's that's a problem. So it's more like, well, after I
• 1:03:33
  after like I graduated in July and now it's like what January?
• 1:03:38
  So it's half a half a year has passed.
• 1:03:40
  I was like, it's just like I miss a lot of people there.
• 1:03:46
  I just don't miss. But I just realized that the
• 1:03:49
  things I every time we turn just less and less things.
• 1:03:52
  I miss it just like there's always a lot a big part of life
• 1:03:55
  for you. And yeah, I think and that's
• 1:04:00
  that's a great friend. He's working on film.
• 1:04:03
  He's currently in my last in the last year.
• 1:04:06
  That's the best I find just like it's got to be university might
• 1:04:09
  feel like long, but it's not going to be long.
• 1:04:13
  And yeah, and he's a he's a really great friend and a lot of
• 1:04:19
  a lot of people. I think one time and yeah, it's
• 1:04:23
  and I just applied ever since then.
• 1:04:25
  I just applied that I met him again and then I met a group of
• 1:04:29
  my friends who graduated with me again.
• 1:04:32
  We have a great time talking, you know, and we just fulfill a
• 1:04:35
  love, the life that we've been having.
• 1:04:39
  And it's like, yeah, they are, they are, they are all happy
• 1:04:42
  even after graduated. And that's OK because it's like
• 1:04:49
  they know that university just part of it.
• 1:04:52
  And I know a person we're I guess we used to be friends.
• 1:04:56
  Everyone said that she's smart, she's really good, even a lot of
• 1:05:00
  people just like she's like a lot of people know that she
• 1:05:05
  she's active, but like she just refused to grow up.
• 1:05:10
  She wishes graduated Everyone just like, yeah, I just want to
• 1:05:13
  do a master. So I was like, why?
• 1:05:15
  Legit, I've talked, spoke to all my classmates and even
• 1:05:18
  everyone's confused, like you want to be active, you want to
• 1:05:20
  do it, just do it. You don't have to waste time
• 1:05:22
  here. And I was like, and everyone
• 1:05:24
  just like you just want to meet your friends, which I've got to
• 1:05:27
  be honest here. I don't even understand Frank
• 1:05:30
  group because no one likes her. She has to like she has to be
• 1:05:35
  like oh, she has to meet new friends.
• 1:05:37
  I mean, of course she has like her partner, her best friend,
• 1:05:42
  but like other friend, they just keep changing.
• 1:05:45
  That's from what I saw and I just keep seeing her as like a
• 1:05:51
  part like her. She just refused to grow up.
• 1:05:54
  Of course I'm not going to name anyone.
• 1:05:56
  It's like waft and I just every time I, of course, I, I don't
• 1:06:00
  speak to her anymore and I still just like kind of refuse to have
• 1:06:04
  unless she's spoken to me. I was like, I'm not going to say
• 1:06:07
  anything. It's like you just kind of have
• 1:06:11
  to grow up eventually. It's it's just life.
• 1:06:15
  You just can't stuck in the same place anymore.
• 1:06:19
  And yeah, a lot of people who does just like are happier, much
• 1:06:23
  happier than I once saw them and that, and that's great.
• 1:06:27
  And I'm still talking to them. So I know that.
• 1:06:29
  I know that fact. Final question for you.
• 1:06:31
  Do you have any upcoming projects or final thoughts that
• 1:06:34
  you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:06:36
  Yeah. I mean, I currently I'm script
• 1:06:38
  super fasting for someone. I'm not going to say anything
• 1:06:40
  because I'm under NDA. Oh, exciting.
• 1:06:44
  Yeah, and but. Making big moves.
• 1:06:47
  Yeah. And also of course I got another
• 1:06:49
  script super fasting job in like February.
• 1:06:52
  I don't think I can get paid, but still.
• 1:06:55
  No, it's good. It's good, man.
• 1:06:56
  It's good. It's fun, absolutely, But but
• 1:07:00
  yeah, and of course, I'm currently writing a writing a
• 1:07:03
  show which completely based on my experience, just like going
• 1:07:06
  back to my university. I don't think I made it subtle.
• 1:07:10
  And also I already told that some people was like, OK, my
• 1:07:12
  square is based on you. So I was like, and even they
• 1:07:15
  were like, oh, I want to read the script.
• 1:07:18
  How do you write me? I was like, yeah, sure.
• 1:07:20
  When I finish it I'm currently like OK it's all first draft
• 1:07:23
  anyways. Like I finished writing episode
• 1:07:25
  3 of like 5 episodes. Exciting man.
• 1:07:29
  Yeah, it's like all of them are just 10 pages.
• 1:07:31
  It's one and most of them are just one conversation.
• 1:07:35
  So and then it just, I'm going to picture like the 5321 with
• 1:07:41
  from the developing room in January, like 28th.
• 1:07:46
  So yeah, I'm going to pitch it there and just like give it a
• 1:07:48
  shot. Just like, why not just just
• 1:07:50
  pitch it? And then of course that show is
• 1:07:53
  going to lead to a film that I'm going to write that's based on
• 1:07:56
  the friend I just told like what the friend told you about.
• 1:07:59
  It's like a friend that I no longer with no idea.
• 1:08:02
  I mean, I can piece it together. Why not the exact specific
• 1:08:07
  details? It's like, and that those are
• 1:08:10
  those are the things I'm currently working on.
• 1:08:11
  Just keep writing and just keep applying.
• 1:08:14
  I trust you. I don't even know how to apply
• 1:08:15
  for most of it, or at least most of them.
• 1:08:17
  Just like they want to apply you.
• 1:08:19
  Have you paid to pay someone or you have an agent you have to
• 1:08:23
  work on? I think once I want to apply for
• 1:08:27
  something and then I just keep reading a list.
• 1:08:28
  You have to have that agent. You have to, I do have a
• 1:08:30
  shopping that's Oscar or bathtub worthy or like, or you have to
• 1:08:35
  like work on like a famous director.
• 1:08:37
  I was like, oh, OK. Oh, so basically just like, so
• 1:08:40
  basically you have to be a Hollywood elite.
• 1:08:44
  OK. So no, it's like, but yeah, it's
• 1:08:47
  like currently I'm just writing that show and after that it's
• 1:08:51
  done, I'm going to write the film and then afterwards I'm
• 1:08:54
  just going to write a bunch of like films.
• 1:08:59
  Probably just got annoyed. Some people I probably got annoy
• 1:09:02
  you just to see what you have in mind.
• 1:09:05
  Would love to. I'm always looking for new work.
• 1:09:07
  New work so. Yeah, trust me, if you have any
• 1:09:10
  new works I would love to be like, oh honestly, how can I
• 1:09:13
  help? Yeah, because technically we are
• 1:09:16
  in the same place. We are one like in December,
• 1:09:20
  December like the 53 to like final IFC filming offense.
• 1:09:24
  We did not meet each other. No, we did not.
• 1:09:28
  Yeah, I wanted to, but like, I was ill, yeah.
• 1:09:32
  I was. God bless you man.
• 1:09:33
  Yeah, I was ill, but I still came.
• 1:09:35
  But like Goodman. Yeah.
• 1:09:37
  Just like after after it's done, I just leave.
• 1:09:40
  Oh, wow. Yeah, I want to meet you like,
• 1:09:43
  someday. Like face to face all.
• 1:09:45
  Right, we'll make it happen. Yeah, I mean, but yeah, thanks
• 1:09:49
  for but thanks for it. It's it's like that's those are
• 1:09:53
  marketing projects. Of course, after after the some
• 1:09:56
  crew roles, I'll be like, I have nothing to do as I'm just
• 1:09:59
  writing. So I keep figuring keep finding
• 1:10:02
  things out. And hey, hey, if anyone just
• 1:10:07
  want to find me just it's on my Instagram.
• 1:10:12
  It's like just directly text me. I'm I'm happy for it.
• 1:10:16
  Well, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the show.
• 1:10:18
  It's been a pleasure to have you here and hear your story and
• 1:10:21
  just hear where you're at and everything.
• 1:10:22
  I wish you the very best for the future.
• 1:10:24
  Thank you and also thanks for hosting.
• 1:10:26
  Thanks for inviting me as well. My pleasure man, It's what I do.
• 1:10:30
  To all the listeners of Christian Reef Podcast, thank
• 1:10:33
  you so much for watching and listening.
• 1:10:34
  And as always, I'll see you in the next one.