Latest / Big Talk About Small Business / Ep. 45 - Chuck Hyde on Leadership Strategies for Every Season of Business

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Ep. 45 - Chuck Hyde on Leadership Strategies for Every Season of Business · Big Talk About Small Business

• 0:04
  Mark Zweig: okay, everybody, we're back again in the studio with my partner, eric howerton, and also a very special guest, our mutual friend chuck hyde.
• 0:16
  Mark Zweig: More guests and we will bring into the conversation momentarily, but uh in any case, this is Hold on, hold on, hey, hold on.
• 0:28
  Mark Zweig: We have to start out like we always do, eric.
• 0:30
  Mark Zweig: This is another episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
• 0:37
  Eric Howerton: You know why I did it like that.
• 0:38
  Eric Howerton: I saw Justin Timberlake last night.
• 0:42
  Mark Zweig: Oh, I was going to say you fell off your bicycle.
• 0:44
  Mark Zweig: No, bro, Okay.
• 0:50
  Eric Howerton: I got some JT in my blood, did you?
• 0:52
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, last night Went to the BOK in Tulsa, which is a fantastic thing.
• 0:57
  Mark Zweig: It is yeah.
• 0:57
  Mark Zweig: Did you stay at that hotel though the loft next?
• 1:01
  Eric Howerton: to it?
• 1:02
  Eric Howerton: I did not.
• 1:02
  Eric Howerton: No, we stayed at I don't know some terror book like a historic hotel.
• 1:08
  Eric Howerton: It was pretty nice really good food.
• 1:13
  Mark Zweig: Those loft hotels are just weirder than anything.
• 1:15
  Eric Howerton: I've ever seen.
• 1:15
  Eric Howerton: Well, I guess we're not getting a sponsorship from them, then no, we're not Anyway.
• 1:17
  Eric Howerton: I'm sorry, no, but it was awesome.
• 1:19
  Eric Howerton: We had pretty good seats so we were like, right there we got to see him.
• 1:23
  Eric Howerton: Man, that dude super talented, I mean, everybody likes a couple of his songs, right.
• 1:30
  Mark Zweig: And you can't help it.
• 1:31
  Mark Zweig: I don't even know any of his songs.
• 1:33
  Mark Zweig: Man, You've heard them.
• 1:34
  Eric Howerton: But I'm an old man, no, but you've heard them, you would know them.
• 1:37
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, you've definitely heard them.
• 1:38
  Eric Howerton: I mean, he's pretty popular.
• 1:47
  Mark Zweig: I her, I'm a taylor, look, I'm a.
• 1:47
  Mark Zweig: I'm a taylor swift fan.
• 1:48
  Mark Zweig: Okay, after I saw that movie I was blown away.
• 1:49
  Mark Zweig: That taylor swift concert movie with my yeah, 13 year old and her 13 year old friend now you're, I'm all into two.
• 1:53
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, man, I mean, after like two or three songs of that, I'm like, okay, let's move on to something else.
• 2:01
  Mark Zweig: But so he was good, yeah yeah, I forgot I was.
• 2:04
  Eric Howerton: I'm sitting and looking at you like that because I'm trying to remember, ask mark who some what's on the music that he listens to and the first thing he said was tlc waterfalls like, and seriously responded like that.
• 2:18
  Eric Howerton: I'm like dude, that's like a, that's like a paradox, man, I mean you're looking beautiful with your cap and like you're freaking.
• 2:26
  Eric Howerton: You're like sex idol for all the people in the community and then you bust out with some waterfalls tlc.
• 2:35
  Eric Howerton: You know I'm like it just didn't make sense to me.
• 2:37
  Mark Zweig: I didn't say I didn't say scrub at least.
• 2:40
  Mark Zweig: Okay, right, you know that song.
• 2:42
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, so I like water I'm I don't like chasing waterfalls.
• 2:48
  Mark Zweig: Um, no, um, we gotta.
• 2:50
  Mark Zweig: We gotta bring chuck into this.
• 2:51
  Mark Zweig: Okay, this guy drove over here.
• 2:54
  Mark Zweig: He did all right.
• 2:55
  Mark Zweig: He's taking time out of his day.
• 2:57
  Mark Zweig: He's a very busy guy, yes, um, let's get professional chuck.
• 3:01
  Mark Zweig: Chuck is somebody I met several years ago through Vistage.
• 3:05
  Mark Zweig: He was our local Vistage chair for two Vistage groups that I inherited from him for a year and a half or so, but he's well known in the area.
• 3:16
  Mark Zweig: Tomal has had a very interesting career, tell us a little bit about yourself, Chuck, and how you got started as a management consultant and leadership expert and coach and all the things that you do.
• 3:33
  Chuck Hyde: Well, yeah, thanks for having me, guys.
• 3:34
  Chuck Hyde: We're going to have a lot of fun today, but I think that we're already having fun.
• 3:38
  Chuck Hyde: The strange part of my story is and people ask me like, how in the world did you land where you're doing what you're doing when you started as a chemical engineering student in the original arkansas, and so you know you, when you're, when you're a chemical engineering student, all roads lead to the gulf is kind of the way.
• 3:54
  Chuck Hyde: Things that typically, typically uh, we must.
• 3:58
  Mark Zweig: You must have done really well at high school, though, because you wouldn't be a chemi.
• 4:02
  Chuck Hyde: That was the smartest ones usually no, I did well math and science, I mean.
• 4:06
  Chuck Hyde: So you're like going engineering and you know and, and, um, well, why chemical?
• 4:10
  Chuck Hyde: I'm like I don't know.
• 4:11
  Chuck Hyde: I got an extra scholarship so I thought, yeah, all the core engineering classes are the same freshman year you know so let's just go do.
• 4:16
  Chuck Hyde: But I liked it because you know and it says something about me, maybe that it was uh, okay, we're dealing with mass and temperature and volume, like things that you can touch, right.
• 4:25
  Chuck Hyde: They make sense to me Electrical engineers, for example like they're.
• 4:30
  Eric Howerton: It's a mystery.
• 4:31
  Chuck Hyde: It's a mystery, right, and like the one EE class, I tell a lot of people you know, back at the OVA at the time, the nickname that they made the EE class, they made non-EEs take the nickname was Sparks and Magic.
• 4:43
  Chuck Hyde: So, you know, you get through Sparks and Magic and do the rest.
• 4:47
  Chuck Hyde: So I went to work for a company called Kimberly Clark, you know so, a big CPG company, which was again very atypical for most chemies, right, you know, because again, you're basically in the oil and gas industry, petrochemical industry, and that's where my co-op jobs were.
• 5:02
  Eric Howerton: So you graduated as a chemie Grad.
• 5:04
  Chuck Hyde: And that's where my co-op jobs were.
• 5:06
  Chuck Hyde: So you graduated as a Kimmy, graduated as a Kimmy.
• 5:08
  Chuck Hyde: I absolutely did, and so Kimberly Clark was doing some regional hiring at the time.
• 5:12
  Mark Zweig: Aren't they based in Memphis?
• 5:13
  Chuck Hyde: No, headquarters are in Dallas, but then they've got their business headquarters there in Neenah.
• 5:17
  Chuck Hyde: Wisconsin is where all the CPG stuff is right.
• 5:21
  Chuck Hyde: So all the Kleenex, huggies, kotex, all that business, all that is in Neenah Wisconsin and that's where it started as a paper company.
• 5:27
  Chuck Hyde: I see Roswell, georgia, north of Atlanta.
• 5:31
  Chuck Hyde: That's where all the away-from-home businesses are.
• 5:33
  Chuck Hyde: So tissue well, yeah, the professional health care, nonwovens businesses, all the things that they do, that's in Roswell.
• 5:42
  Chuck Hyde: And then again the world headquarters really is the CEO, cfo, legal counsel and those kinds of things.
• 5:47
  Chuck Hyde: So there were three headquarters, if you will.
• 5:50
  Chuck Hyde: So, anyway got hired in Conway out of school to go and do process engineering and they needed chemis because there was a material science base to it right and to a diaper, for example.
• 6:02
  Chuck Hyde: So there was that level of understanding and so did that.
• 6:07
  Chuck Hyde: I was at casey for 12 years, stops in conway, at wisconsin, at our headquarters, and then south carolina wow, at a site there.
• 6:13
  Chuck Hyde: So 12 years, and in the 12 years there I had 11 different jobs, which was, you know, a big part of the answer to your question like how did he go into consulting right?
• 6:23
  Chuck Hyde: Well, it's.
• 6:24
  Chuck Hyde: I don't know how.
• 6:25
  Chuck Hyde: I don't know how good of an engineer I was.
• 6:27
  Chuck Hyde: I had to work pretty hard for that degree.
• 6:29
  Chuck Hyde: There were people that were just wicked smart types, that just were.
• 6:34
  Eric Howerton: Bones are clutch, just like me yeah, for example, yeah, for example.
• 6:38
  Chuck Hyde: Case in point no, that wasn't me, that's the hardest.
• 6:43
  Eric Howerton: you've laughed in this entire damn show that we've done I told you we were never.
• 6:47
  Chuck Hyde: You are wicked smart.
• 6:48
  Eric Howerton: Thank you.
• 6:48
  Eric Howerton: Thank you so much, Mark.
• 6:50
  Mark Zweig: It's like the boss in you.
• 6:51
  Mark Zweig: Wicked smart Math and science would be what I would think of you as smart.
• 6:54
  Mark Zweig: Thank you, I appreciate it.
• 6:55
  Mark Zweig: You are smart, thank you.
• 6:59
  Chuck Hyde: Anyway, go do all that.
• 7:01
  Chuck Hyde: And so Kc was was great, uh, but lots of opportunities to do things that were not engineering right, so got into operations, got into quality, got into the regulatory work.
• 7:11
  Chuck Hyde: It's lots of different things.
• 7:13
  Chuck Hyde: So in 12 years you know the opportunity to bounce around.
• 7:15
  Chuck Hyde: And I found out this thing about learning agility.
• 7:17
  Chuck Hyde: Right, like, okay, you can drop me into a place.
• 7:20
  Chuck Hyde: In fact, I had a one of our professors at uh in in school.
• 7:23
  Chuck Hyde: This, this is germane to the story.
• 7:25
  Chuck Hyde: We were the one engineering discipline that was not required to take any computer programming and I think back in the late 80s I mean.
• 7:34
  Mark Zweig: DOS was still a, thing, yeah true.
• 7:37
  Chuck Hyde: And so computer growth, all that was really basic, was still a thing.
• 7:41
  Chuck Hyde: Cobol, all these things well, we weren't required to take any of that PLC.
• 7:45
  Chuck Hyde: We asked our department head one day it was two, three or four percent of his office Like hey, why don't we have to do that?
• 7:51
  Chuck Hyde: He's like well, we figure that if we took you guys in an airplane and dropped you out of it over France at some point, you'd learn French.
• 8:01
  Chuck Hyde: We're like okay, and it was the end of the conversation and so project to it, I guess yeah so like well, you know, you learn it you learn it.
• 8:15
  Chuck Hyde: You know, we don't need to you know major and you gotta know enough about it.
• 8:18
  Chuck Hyde: You can become conversational.
• 8:19
  Chuck Hyde: I mean it'll be fluent.
• 8:20
  Chuck Hyde: But yeah, you'll be fine, sure, and so we went okay.
• 8:23
  Chuck Hyde: So, uh, but that agility, it was something that did pay off for me and so um opportunity to do some leadership development, uh that you know, just in the corporate environment.
• 8:32
  Chuck Hyde: Um, in 2001 I got opportunity to come down back to northwest arkansas, which was home for me, uh, to do some training.
• 8:39
  Chuck Hyde: It was at circus leadership and uh, and it was kind of like man, man, this is really different.
• 8:46
  Chuck Hyde: I really like what I do, I'm good at it.
• 8:49
  Chuck Hyde: I've got great sponsorship, which I was starting to discover was a thing inside of corporate environment Great sponsorship.
• 8:54
  Chuck Hyde: I'm going to be a lifer at KC.
• 8:55
  Chuck Hyde: But you know what, if I really wanted to do something totally different, this would be pretty cool and went back to work.
• 9:01
  Chuck Hyde: And went back to work Four years later, different series of events that were like okay, it's time for me to do something different somewhere else.
• 9:11
  Eric Howerton: So let me understand a little bit more on the timeline.
• 9:13
  Eric Howerton: So you come back to Northwest Arkansas still working, for it was a training.
• 9:17
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, it was a training.
• 9:18
  Chuck Hyde: It wasn't work.
• 9:18
  Chuck Hyde: It wasn't working here.
• 9:19
  Chuck Hyde: It was just a leadership development course Got you At the SodaQuest Center At SodaQuest.
• 9:25
  Chuck Hyde: Center At SodaQuest.
• 9:26
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, Got it, got it, got it.
• 9:27
  Chuck Hyde: So I came back for a SodaQuest event and you dug it.
• 9:30
  Eric Howerton: I mean you loved it, it was cool.
• 9:31
  Eric Howerton: It was like, well, this is really cool.
• 9:33
  Chuck Hyde: I was kind of fed by that.
• 9:34
  Eric Howerton: Who were your trainers?
• 9:35
  Eric Howerton: Can you say?
• 9:37
  Chuck Hyde: Well, you may know Tony Hawk.
• 9:39
  Chuck Hyde: Tony later was Later was the guy that hired me, so Tony's in the area still.
• 9:42
  Chuck Hyde: I was doing lots of coaching, consulting work.
• 9:44
  Chuck Hyde: Tony was the guy that hired me.
• 9:47
  Chuck Hyde: Of course Don was the face of it all, and it was funny to me because that day he was still active at Walmart.
• 9:56
  Chuck Hyde: This was 2001.
• 9:58
  Chuck Hyde: So he was still, I'm pretty sure, still active on the board.
• 10:00
  Chuck Hyde: At least he had no longer a COO.
• 10:02
  Chuck Hyde: But it was just like oh, there's Don Sodaquist.
• 10:04
  Chuck Hyde: I was like because I grew up here, I'm like, well, it's Don.
• 10:07
  Chuck Hyde: I was, like everybody knows, don Sodaquist.
• 10:10
  Mark Zweig: That's how we felt about Don Tyson.
• 10:12
  Mark Zweig: He was just walking around Fayetteville with this uniform on that said Don Right, right, the khakis right.
• 10:17
  Mark Zweig: It just says Don.
• 10:18
  Chuck Hyde: Right, that's the way it was back then.
• 10:21
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, that's the way it was, and so it was interesting to me to come back and to see that and so, anyway, all that said, four years later they're looking for a guy like me.
• 10:34
  Chuck Hyde: I don't really know that, but I'm like, well, I think this might be the time where I just like 15 years.
• 10:40
  Mark Zweig: Give it a shot, kimberly Clark 12.
• 10:43
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, 12 at KC Ended up, so skip forward 12 years at Sutterquist.
• 10:47
  Chuck Hyde: The last eight of those I served as CEO, which was a really privileged opportunity because we had grown into really a consulting firm.
• 10:55
  Chuck Hyde: When that group started it was not necessarily that they were building the MBA program at JBU, they were doing events.
• 11:03
  Mark Zweig: It was a non-, an nonprofit, wasn't it?
• 11:06
  Chuck Hyde: because it was part of jbu.
• 11:07
  Chuck Hyde: Yes, yeah, it was a non-profit.
• 11:08
  Chuck Hyde: You know, we ran our own panel, we ran our own, you know.
• 11:11
  Chuck Hyde: So it was, it was under the umbrella of the university at the time and but we were running our own, our own business, if you will.
• 11:18
  Chuck Hyde: So we were very outward, facing, very market focused um some things on campus to add value to faculty and students, but for the most part we were a consulting firm.
• 11:28
  Ad: Yeah.
• 11:29
  Chuck Hyde: Don didn't like that, because you know he was like we're not consultants.
• 11:31
  Chuck Hyde: I'm like well, everybody we compete with is a consultant, so I don't know what that makes us.
• 11:37
  Chuck Hyde: You know, what did he want you to be?
• 11:38
  Chuck Hyde: Well, his point, his point on that, which was actually a healthy cultural thing for us, the consultant, there's a connotation of this parasitic relationship.
• 11:50
  Chuck Hyde: It's always a self of like.
• 11:53
  Chuck Hyde: You never go away Right.
• 11:55
  Chuck Hyde: Consultants always keep finding reasons to do work, of course, and you know Walmart was a target for some of that.
• 12:03
  Chuck Hyde: He probably had a taste for some of that, and so he's like that's not who we are, like we engage and we release, like absolutely Don.
• 12:11
  Chuck Hyde: So that was what he was actually rejecting.
• 12:15
  Eric Howerton: It had a finish line to it.
• 12:16
  Eric Howerton: It had a finish line.
• 12:17
  Chuck Hyde: He had to have a finish line, and so what was the best part of that period is that in the life cycle of an organization, it's not like, okay, we've, we've worked with you, we'll never see you again.
• 12:29
  Chuck Hyde: But it was more about when that need came up again, they would.
• 12:34
  Chuck Hyde: It was time to re-engage, yeah, on a new, a new initiative, a new, you know, whatever it could be.
• 12:39
  Chuck Hyde: There was a new need that we could help with, and and I used to tell our team like I wanted to be the first stop shop.
• 12:44
  Chuck Hyde: I didn't want to be a one-stop shop, right?
• 12:46
  Chuck Hyde: Because that's the other thing about consultants is that we had this, these videos that our guys did, you know, kind of making fun of consulting and all there's like, what do you do, what do you need, right?
• 12:54
  Chuck Hyde: You?
• 12:54
  Ad: know which is again kind of a stereotypical, not great part of that industry.
• 13:02
  Chuck Hyde: Um so, but I didn't want to be a one-stop shop that served everybody's, but I did want to be the first stop shop.
• 13:07
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, meaning, well, we need axel.
• 13:09
  Chuck Hyde: I don't know who we should go, I don't know.
• 13:11
  Chuck Hyde: Let's call sodaquist and maybe they'll know well if we could serve what's that?
• 13:17
  Mark Zweig: it's like those commercials, ask markham.
• 13:19
  Mark Zweig: It's like, yeah, I don't know whether I should go out to lunch here or there, ask markham yeah, like we.
• 13:24
  Chuck Hyde: Just I just wanted to be front of mind right and so like okay, here's who does that work.
• 13:28
  Chuck Hyde: we don't call so, but here, here's who you know we could, we could make be a way maker and then a route finder, and that's what we were doing, and so, and people would appreciate that right, and so we understood, you know who the credible people were doing good work in any given discipline.
• 13:45
  Chuck Hyde: If it wasn't us and that still stayed with me, like again in my practice today, I'm not trying to do anything.
• 13:52
  Chuck Hyde: We don't use the term Rolodex anymore.
• 13:55
  Chuck Hyde: They're like I want to keep my Rolodex strong and pay attention to who's doing good work so that when someone comes up with a need, I can say, hey, here's three people you should talk to.
• 14:05
  Chuck Hyde: Let me facilitate that introduction.
• 14:07
  Chuck Hyde: Go and be well.
• 14:08
  Chuck Hyde: So that was Don's real hesitation there.
• 14:12
  Chuck Hyde: So it's been 12 years there.
• 14:13
  Chuck Hyde: We built this firm and after Don passed away in 2016, and we knew that there were going to be some things that we would do fundamentally different once he could not be or elected not to be, some things that we would do fundamentally different once he could not be or elected not to be involved in our work any longer.
• 14:28
  Chuck Hyde: And so we were on a plan to exit that for some time and very good, open-ended conversations with Don, with his family, just like hey, we've got to be able to ride a bike on our own here.
• 14:40
  Chuck Hyde: And so we had built and successfully done that, and a year later, it was just that it was like, ok, it's time for us to pivot to that next design.
• 14:50
  Chuck Hyde: Let me finish that and again, we're part of the university, and so my role effectively reported to the university president and the board of trustees.
• 14:59
  Ad: And.
• 14:59
  Chuck Hyde: I said, hey, here's where I think we need to go.
• 15:01
  Chuck Hyde: Not sure that I'm the person to lead that or not, but let's talk about that.
• 15:07
  Chuck Hyde: And so the good news is, by then we had a successor ready in place for me.
• 15:11
  Chuck Hyde: It was evident that I think it was best for them, it was best for the brand, if you will, it was best for me.
• 15:18
  Chuck Hyde: It's time for Chuck to have that grace flags.
• 15:21
  Chuck Hyde: And so usually that orderly transition of duties is kind of a euphemism that it gets used to like oh he's, he's exiting.
• 15:28
  Chuck Hyde: It was.
• 15:29
  Chuck Hyde: It was really about that.
• 15:30
  Chuck Hyde: Let's have an orderly transition, it can work.
• 15:33
  Chuck Hyde: And I think we did that.
• 15:34
  Chuck Hyde: And so they went on to continue to do work and I went on to my do a single practice.
• 15:40
  Chuck Hyde: I don't know if you ever would have met Terry, but single practice.
• 15:45
  Chuck Hyde: I don't know if you ever would have met.
• 15:46
  Mark Zweig: Terry, but Terry Bowen was the original Vistage chair in Northwest Arkansas.
• 15:48
  Mark Zweig: Right, I knew that.
• 15:49
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, and so, terry I was before Terry and I had become friends and he he pulled me in to do that, that work.
• 15:55
  Chuck Hyde: And so you know four years doing executive boards with Vistage and then the last three after Mark.
• 16:00
  Chuck Hyde: You took that practice over really just doing individual work.
• 16:04
  Chuck Hyde: Again, I've got my partners that I will pull in on projects or they'll pull me in on a project.
• 16:10
  Chuck Hyde: But that's the nature of it.
• 16:13
  Chuck Hyde: What kind of work is that exactly?
• 16:16
  Chuck Hyde: Today, yeah, yeah.
• 16:17
  Chuck Hyde: So really the core of what I've been doing the last couple of years is kind of a fractional model, and so I had friends that were doing fractional CFOs, fractional CMO, and so I was like, what would it look like to be a fractional strategic officer, fractional operational type person, in the same kind of way?
• 16:34
  Chuck Hyde: And so a big part of what I do when I'm really in the mix, that I want to manage around my time, is one or two of those at any given time, is just where I'm kind of I'm a de facto member of the executive team, sure, with again, there's work to be done, and then you're going to invite me to leave one day, and so everything I do is like I'm going to point out watch out for that pothole, right, let's not step in.
• 16:58
  Chuck Hyde: That, you know, twist our ankle right.
• 17:00
  Chuck Hyde: Or hey, let me introduce to you a tool or a resource that I think can help take you.
• 17:06
  Chuck Hyde: I've got a client right now and it's really about growth, and I said and so every time I'm talking to their team, I said you need to understand any conversation we're having.
• 17:15
  Chuck Hyde: Understand the.
• 17:16
  Chuck Hyde: The banner over my head is growth enablement, because you're awesome at what you do today Over the next 10 years, you expect accelerated growth.
• 17:24
  Chuck Hyde: You're not designed for that, you're designed for what you are now.
• 17:28
  Chuck Hyde: Let's get, let's get enabled so that when you do grow it can actually happen in a healthy, constructive, more efficient way than you know.
• 17:36
  Chuck Hyde: Just the sort of some of the chaos and things that can can ensue in that way, and so that's the big part.
• 17:43
  Chuck Hyde: I say, right, so a fractional role, still do some executive coaching, um, and for you know, and you know, coaching for me, I tell people all the time if you ask, and you know there's, there's any brands or versions of what that is.
• 17:55
  Chuck Hyde: For me it's sounding board, you know, I call it just like hey, there's a ceo out there that they just need somebody to knock ideas off of and it's safe and it's know it's not going to go anywhere and it may be harebrained, but let's work through that, right, you know.
• 18:08
  Chuck Hyde: So sounding more.
• 18:09
  Chuck Hyde: And or accountability, right, like, I just need somebody to.
• 18:11
  Chuck Hyde: You know, no one's going to as the business owner who's going to hold me accountable, sure, so some of them literally like I need somebody who's like oh man, my meeting with Chuck's in next week, I've got to get that thing done, that I told him I was going to do right.
• 18:25
  Chuck Hyde: So there's people that know they need that built in.
• 18:28
  Chuck Hyde: So part of my is that the other part of it is more developmental, particularly for people who are kind of moving into that executive role and you've got to shift your focus from some of the day-to-day tactical stuff into more of the long range strategic stuff.
• 18:45
  Chuck Hyde: And how do you build some of that muscle when you've never been forced to think it?
• 18:48
  Chuck Hyde: And so we'll put in some, you know, develop some resources, that just basically to build muscle, so that executive coaching.
• 18:54
  Chuck Hyde: And then there's an isolated project here there I was in low rock last week doing a one-day workshop with the team on a very specific topic and so that's the mix of where I spend my time.
• 19:05
  Mark Zweig: Are these generally larger clients like Megacorps, like you came out of no no, no.
• 19:13
  Chuck Hyde: All their respect to our big players here in our market and elsewhere.
• 19:16
  Chuck Hyde: No, I work.
• 19:19
  Chuck Hyde: I thought I'd have to work to stay out of that.
• 19:22
  Chuck Hyde: But there's a version of scale Like, again, kimberly Clark, a Fortune 100 company.
• 19:28
  Chuck Hyde: There's a way you've got to be, you know, to maneuver and to execute in that kind of environment, to be successful and to get things done, which is very different than like some of the things you write.
• 19:38
  Chuck Hyde: Like, when I read your book, mark, you know it was like okay, as an entrepreneur in a startup, you've got to be nimble in your everything.
• 19:44
  Chuck Hyde: You're in everything all the time, right?
• 19:45
  Chuck Hyde: Sure, it's a very different model Small privately held.
• 19:47
  Chuck Hyde: Small privately held quick decision-making versus okay, we've got to get all the stakeholders on board.
• 19:52
  Chuck Hyde: All that stuff's different, right?
• 19:55
  Mark Zweig: You played that game, though for so long.
• 19:57
  Mark Zweig: Oh yeah, Absolutely you survived as long as you did in that environment.
• 20:00
  Chuck Hyde: You must have learned something from that I, without a question, learned about it, and I do think that there's transferability.
• 20:07
  Ad: It's a totally different world.
• 20:08
  Chuck Hyde: And where that has served me well, particularly in this conversation around this client that I'm working with.
• 20:13
  Chuck Hyde: That needs growth.
• 20:14
  Chuck Hyde: When you push against scale, a lot of clients will say, hey, we came out of big business, we came out of corporate.
• 20:23
  Mark Zweig: We don't want to be that anymore.
• 20:25
  Chuck Hyde: That's bad.
• 20:25
  Chuck Hyde: Corporate's bad, I'm like.
• 20:27
  Chuck Hyde: Well, corporate's not necessarily bad.
• 20:29
  Chuck Hyde: I understand your experience within it and why you feel that way, but there are some necessary things around scale that you have to create discipline, that create rhythms that allow you to grow your business in a way that's not just this Wild Wild West kind of gunslinger approach, sure, and so starting.
• 20:50
  Eric Howerton: I like that approach, though, gunslinger.
• 20:52
  Eric Howerton: No, it feels good, right, it feels so good, it's a rush right.
• 20:58
  Chuck Hyde: And it makes the person the person.
• 21:01
  Eric Howerton: Dude, because you're kind of he's faster than I am.
• 21:04
  Eric Howerton: That's why I respect and admire you, mark Zweig.
• 21:09
  Eric Howerton: You're quick, bro, quick on the draw.
• 21:11
  Chuck Hyde: But I mean, both of you guys have been involved.
• 21:13
  Chuck Hyde: You guys kind of get that right.
• 21:15
  Chuck Hyde: Mark, I don't know how many businesses you've started and sold and grown.
• 21:19
  Chuck Hyde: Whatever, eric, you do the same thing.
• 21:21
  Chuck Hyde: There's a way in which that happens.
• 21:27
  Ad: No, you've got to have a certain amount of time.
• 21:30
  Mark Zweig: It demands a certain amount of structure and process and all those things.
• 21:35
  Eric Howerton: So I could actually add a little bit to that.
• 21:38
  Eric Howerton: In my case, I love what you're talking about because in my case, on the corporate side, I know the company needs that.
• 21:44
  Eric Howerton: I'm just not the guy for that.
• 21:47
  Mark Zweig: Well, that's the way a lot of founders find themselves.
• 21:50
  Eric Howerton: At least, if you're a founder entrepreneur, to know what your lane is and be good at that lane and it's okay, you don't have to freaking be all those things you know you can kind of dream.
• 22:01
  Eric Howerton: I remember at one point I dreamed about running a massive company.
• 22:05
  Eric Howerton: That was kind of my goal and that's fine.
• 22:09
  Eric Howerton: But I mean I think that over time I just realized that's actually not what I actually genuinely want, right.
• 22:15
  Eric Howerton: I mean, could I do it If I really worked at it?
• 22:18
  Eric Howerton: I probably could, because I think it's kind of a fun challenge to navigate and grow and get into that.
• 22:25
  Eric Howerton: But yeah, at the end of the day I don't know that I would even like that.
• 22:30
  Eric Howerton: I couldn't do it today with my attitude, by any stretch of the imagination, right.
• 22:35
  Chuck Hyde: Right and having enough.
• 22:37
  Chuck Hyde: Part of the discipline is knowing like don't put myself there when it's my best use of me.
• 22:43
  Chuck Hyde: I must surround myself with people that can do that, and that's what they're great at.
• 22:48
  Mark Zweig: A lot of entrepreneurs have a hard time with that, though, because they are do-it-yourselfers and they did start out doing everything, and it's hard for them to let go.
• 22:55
  Mark Zweig: I mean, you know that well, so they think they can try everything, even if they're not good at it.
• 23:00
  Chuck Hyde: yep, and I would tell you from us that entrepreneurial spirit, that startup and even the corporate executive.
• 23:06
  Chuck Hyde: There's one of the things that I you know in my coaching, I will say is that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should hang on to that True.
• 23:12
  Chuck Hyde: Just because you can doesn't mean you should, because you're actually more valuable to the business over here.
• 23:21
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah.
• 23:22
  Eric Howerton: Oh yeah, I love that.
• 23:23
  Eric Howerton: I love that conversation.
• 23:25
  Eric Howerton: I mean it's kind of like well, you know, js, my partner.
• 23:28
  Mark Zweig: We've had him on the show.
• 23:29
  Eric Howerton: You guys are complimentary in your skill sets.
• 23:31
  Eric Howerton: I mean, dude, he's the man right 100%, but he needs I mean the company needs somebody that's just kind of bouncing, just like digging up stuff, you know, like just stumbling upon things and bringing them back, because that's the innovation of the company.
• 23:48
  Chuck Hyde: Well, and I think about probably a lot of your listeners are feeling the thing that, mark, you were talking about about Like, well, it's my thing and I'm going to do it because I can and I want to, and then the thrill of it and the rush of it, but at some point that discipline to go.
• 24:01
  Chuck Hyde: Okay, actually, my highest and best use is over here and I'm going to have enough discipline to say no, someone else, I'm going to bring someone else to do that Right, who maybe is, maybe he's better than me, probably better, and likes it better and likes it better.
• 24:14
  Chuck Hyde: And so part of my personal leadership philosophy is actually I want to surround myself with people who are smarter than me.
• 24:19
  Chuck Hyde: Hell yeah, I want to surround myself with people who know things.
• 24:22
  Chuck Hyde: They're better at their job than I could ever be at that job Doesn't mean I couldn't.
• 24:26
  Chuck Hyde: We can figure it out.
• 24:28
  Chuck Hyde: Smart enough, we can grind through it, sure, but it's going to suck the life out of me.
• 24:35
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, can I give a warning to that, bill?
• 24:37
  Eric Howerton: I mean, just from my experience, you're building a business, people that are smarter than you, absolutely, but I think that you have to.
• 24:46
  Eric Howerton: One thing that I learned, that was a hard lesson to learn People that are smarter than you, it means you need to up your game as a manager.
• 24:52
  Eric Howerton: Yes, bro, like big time, because they're not going to.
• 24:58
  Eric Howerton: Just not everyone does things in the best interest of the overall people in the company.
• 25:04
  Chuck Hyde: You know what I'm saying that's not abdication right.
• 25:06
  Chuck Hyde: So just because you're better at that than me, you don't abdicate and just vacate the space.
• 25:11
  Chuck Hyde: Right, there you go.
• 25:12
  Eric Howerton: It's such a better way of putting it.
• 25:13
  Chuck Hyde: You've got to stay in and say you're responsible for this part of it, but it's got to tie to the place we're going.
• 25:21
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, and if you brought somebody in like that but you've got to have other people that are watching out as well.
• 25:30
  Eric Howerton: At a higher level.
• 25:31
  Eric Howerton: If I brought in somebody really smart, I'd want a Mark Zweig or you that I really know and trust well to kind of watch over me, because I might not be good at even watching and managing.
• 25:42
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, I mean it's crazy, but anyway, I was going to say this too.
• 25:46
  Chuck Hyde: This is what I learned about myself In my last stop at KC.
• 25:50
  Chuck Hyde: Right, so we were, I was was running, there was operations and there was everything else.
• 25:55
  Chuck Hyde: I had the everything else and there were eight functions that reported to me in that unit and we were a manufacturing plant at the time.
• 26:02
  Chuck Hyde: I'm sure what it is today, but at the time it was the largest manufacturing facility KCA in the world, and so I had logistics and planning and finance and you know, environmental and press engineering and quality and, like these functions, right, all supporting operations.
• 26:17
  Chuck Hyde: I had worked at that point and held jobs in four of the eight disciplines that were reported to me.
• 26:22
  Chuck Hyde: That's good.
• 26:24
  Chuck Hyde: I had not worked in the other four.
• 26:26
  Chuck Hyde: And what I realized fairly early I was a better leader in the areas I had no experience in Because I asked better questions.
• 26:34
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, I got it.
• 26:35
  Chuck Hyde: I had to understand.
• 26:35
  Chuck Hyde: I had no experience in, really, because I asked better questions, yeah, I asked, I had to understand, I had to seek to.
• 26:37
  Chuck Hyde: And so because where I was, what I was prone to do in the four where I had experience is, hey, that's not how you do that, that's right.
• 26:44
  Chuck Hyde: Like this is the way I would do it.
• 26:45
  Chuck Hyde: And and and because I knew that I had experienced, I had done well in it and I was like no, I like this works.
• 26:51
  Chuck Hyde: The, the, the risk of micromanaging and being on top of people was much greater Interesting.
• 26:58
  Chuck Hyde: Where I was a better facilitator and question asker and like, okay, I hear you, but how does that connect here?
• 27:04
  Chuck Hyde: And so we were discovering stuff and I think I was a better leader to the four functions I had no experience in.
• 27:09
  Chuck Hyde: That was my story.
• 27:10
  Chuck Hyde: I don't think it's necessary, I wouldn't claim that as universal truth, but I saw that about myself.
• 27:14
  Chuck Hyde: Where I had done the job, I had to actually work to give that person space to do the job the way they wanted to do it, knowing the outcome still mattered.
• 27:24
  Mark Zweig: That's why you're a good coach, okay because you do that Now.
• 27:29
  Mark Zweig: I'm not a coach, all right.
• 27:31
  Mark Zweig: I'm a consultant.
• 27:33
  Mark Zweig: I'm going to rely on my experience.
• 27:35
  Mark Zweig: If you ask me, I'm going to tell you what I think you need to do.
• 27:37
  Mark Zweig: But I'm not good, I couldn't do what you do, okay.
• 27:40
  Mark Zweig: I totally understand the benefits of that kind of thinking and that kind of a process.
• 27:48
  Ad: It's not me.
• 27:50
  Chuck Hyde: No, I understand.
• 27:52
  Mark Zweig: So I do see the difference, though, in what you're talking about.
• 27:55
  Chuck Hyde: It is different and the market actually has room for both types.
• 28:01
  Chuck Hyde: It does You're a subject matter expert.
• 28:03
  Chuck Hyde: This is how you do it Right.
• 28:05
  Mark Zweig: If you wanted to shortcut the process.
• 28:07
  Mark Zweig: Maybe it's not going to be the most innovative.
• 28:09
  Mark Zweig: One could say I don't know.
• 28:12
  Mark Zweig: Maybe that stifles innovation because you've had so much experience doing something.
• 28:16
  Eric Howerton: Or I think maybe there's like a if you look at a timeline, I would imagine you'd want a consultant and you'd want the coach.
• 28:24
  Eric Howerton: At different times At different times of the cycle, because that's what really helps, because you've got to have the consultant to activate.
• 28:32
  Mark Zweig: Chuck is really good at making people feel good about themselves.
• 28:38
  Chuck Hyde: Congratulations, chuck, for what it's worth.
• 28:41
  Chuck Hyde: I laughed at the client on the phone.
• 28:42
  Chuck Hyde: There's this thing I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you.
• 28:49
  Chuck Hyde: No, I'm laughing at you.
• 28:50
  Eric Howerton: I'm laughing at you right now.
• 28:51
  Chuck Hyde: I love it.
• 28:51
  Chuck Hyde: He loves me.
• 28:51
  Chuck Hyde: We have a good conversation.
• 28:52
  Chuck Hyde: I had room to do that, dude, I'm laughing at you.
• 28:53
  Chuck Hyde: I'm laughing at you right now.
• 28:54
  Chuck Hyde: I love it.
• 28:54
  Chuck Hyde: He loves me.
• 28:54
  Chuck Hyde: We have a good conversation.
• 28:55
  Chuck Hyde: I had room to do that.
• 28:57
  Chuck Hyde: I'm laughing at you.
• 29:00
  Mark Zweig: Let's go back to something else you mentioned though.
• 29:01
  Mark Zweig: Chuck, you brought up the word leadership.
• 29:05
  Mark Zweig: You have a new book out Seasons in Leadership.
• 29:09
  Mark Zweig: It's really a great book.
• 29:12
  Mark Zweig: It's a very easy read.
• 29:13
  Mark Zweig: It's 133 pages, I think Bite-sized for sure.
• 29:17
  Mark Zweig: So tell our audience a little bit about that.
• 29:20
  Mark Zweig: And when you say seasons, are we talking about the seasons in the leader's life, or are we talking about the seasons of the organization where it is?
• 29:31
  Chuck Hyde: The second part.
• 29:32
  Chuck Hyde: First, it's the organization right, and so that book was born out of a client need.
• 29:37
  Chuck Hyde: And so a couple years ago, ceo comes to me and we've been doing some work over a period of time with a group of leaders to build capacity because, basically, think of it, everything's favorable if you're on a bicycle, like in northwest arkansas we love our bikes, right well, you're you're, you're downhill, you're wind at your back, you know you're in a peloton, you're going, everything's favorable, and that's the only time you can do 45 miles an hour or faster on a bicycle and it's just like this group of leaders was getting their capacity up, was the rate limiting factor to more market, more share, more success.
• 30:12
  Chuck Hyde: So that had been the focus Almost overnight.
• 30:17
  Chuck Hyde: It's as if everything changed.
• 30:19
  Chuck Hyde: Everything that was a tailwind is now a headwind.
• 30:23
  Chuck Hyde: We're not going downhill, we're going uphill.
• 30:24
  Chuck Hyde: We're not riding in a group, we're riding solo.
• 30:26
  Chuck Hyde: So now you're not riding 45, you're riding like 10.
• 30:31
  Chuck Hyde: And so the CEO came to me and said it's a different season and we have to lead differently.
• 30:38
  Chuck Hyde: So let's shift our focus, because the market, it was external forces that had caused it.
• 30:43
  Chuck Hyde: Um, somebody moved their cheese, somebody quote another book another book we have to leave.
• 30:51
  Chuck Hyde: But credit to her.
• 30:52
  Chuck Hyde: She said we've got to lead differently, We've got to change our focus.
• 30:54
  Chuck Hyde: I said, yeah, you're right, and so there was.
• 30:56
  Chuck Hyde: You know, part of what I do in my work again is I'm a curator of tools and books and resources, so I don't try to do too much original work.
• 31:10
  Chuck Hyde: It's just like here's a smart person that has a great idea on that, or here's a cool tool, so I I'm curating and there was nothing out there on this idea of seasons that I could find short of it's a brilliant short of spring summer, fall, winter, yeah, and I'm like I have not gone to the table with spring, summer, fall, winter, like that would be almost offensive to most entrepreneurs and most leaders.
• 31:32
  Chuck Hyde: I know, like your, your complex, your business is way more complex than those four seasons.
• 31:37
  Chuck Hyde: So let's.
• 31:37
  Chuck Hyde: So I said.
• 31:39
  Chuck Hyde: I said tell you what?
• 31:40
  Chuck Hyde: Um, let's try this, let me, let me build a model out, and I don't have to be right, I just have to provoke thinking.
• 31:47
  Chuck Hyde: I just have to get your group talking about it.
• 31:49
  Chuck Hyde: You good with that, and so credit to her.
• 31:51
  Chuck Hyde: She trusted me and she said yeah, let yeah.
• 31:53
  Chuck Hyde: So again, put it that way it's more of a logic sequence that says, okay, the seasons come and go, right, there's a definite start and there's a definite end.
• 32:02
  Chuck Hyde: They've got some duration right.
• 32:05
  Chuck Hyde: And so what's true in this season?
• 32:09
  Chuck Hyde: Parts of that were not true before, and things that were true then are not true now, and so that's kind of how you define a season, right, so okay.
• 32:18
  Chuck Hyde: So, in that, what characterizes the season we're in?
• 32:21
  Chuck Hyde: Let's understand what was no longer true is now true, like what characterizes that?
• 32:25
  Chuck Hyde: And so, given that, what's our focus, be what's our leadership focus, be what's the message we want to send, and be what's the message we want to send, uh, and sort of the tone, what's the in the leadership role.
• 32:38
  Chuck Hyde: Ultimately, it all gets to what do I need our people to believe in this season?
• 32:41
  Chuck Hyde: I need you to believe something, because that belief is going to inform your assumptions, your judgment.
• 32:46
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, I need you to exercise, uh, your buy-in to the new direction, like I need you to believe something.
• 32:52
  Chuck Hyde: So that's the idea, yeah, of the book.
• 32:54
  Chuck Hyde: And so what I, what I, what I try to do, is put in some representative season.
• 33:00
  Chuck Hyde: My disclaimer up front is like it's not an all-inclusive, like there are seven seasons.
• 33:04
  Chuck Hyde: It's not because there's any magic to that number.
• 33:07
  Chuck Hyde: It was like it's time to be done.
• 33:08
  Chuck Hyde: Smart people are going to get the point, but it is designed to cause a leader or a group of leaders, a senior team, to go.
• 33:18
  Chuck Hyde: Okay, what season are we just coming out of?
• 33:20
  Chuck Hyde: What did we just move into?
• 33:22
  Chuck Hyde: What season are we in what season are we going to?
• 33:24
  Chuck Hyde: And let's talk about that, let's reflect on that, like what is true now?
• 33:28
  Chuck Hyde: What should our focus be Ultimately?
• 33:36
  Chuck Hyde: What do we need are people to believe?
• 33:37
  Chuck Hyde: And so there's a conversation I was having with a colleague who's trying to help a group in a merger situation.
• 33:40
  Chuck Hyde: So there's a chapter on mergers and acquisitions.
• 33:42
  Chuck Hyde: You guys have been through those kinds of things and you know so.
• 33:46
  Chuck Hyde: There's some examples, some case study, types of things.
• 33:48
  Chuck Hyde: Okay, in a merger and acquisition situation, what was true?
• 33:54
  Chuck Hyde: What's now true?
• 33:55
  Chuck Hyde: Ultimately, ultimately, what do we want our people to believe?
• 33:57
  Chuck Hyde: And you know, in that one it's kind of like well, we need people to believe that we're better together.
• 34:02
  Mark Zweig: Yes, fundamental and absolutely right.
• 34:04
  Mark Zweig: Like, not like it's gonna be bad for us.
• 34:06
  Mark Zweig: It's not me bad for it, but right.
• 34:07
  Chuck Hyde: But to get.
• 34:08
  Chuck Hyde: We're better together than we are apart, that's a fundamental belief if you can get people to believe that and understand how that actually begins then they're going to figure out stuff.
• 34:17
  Mark Zweig: And so.
• 34:18
  Chuck Hyde: I tell people it was a different day, but I was part of Kimberly-Clark when KC bought Scott Paper and the way in which that took place.
• 34:28
  Chuck Hyde: There was a design to it and it made that assimilation of not just their manufacturing assets and their brands but the working got better because we understood okay, we called it Scott Heritage and KC Heritage type stuff that we needed to understand but understanding it.
• 34:48
  Chuck Hyde: The point is in this particular case and why we were having the conversation last week was do the people believe that they're better together?
• 34:55
  Chuck Hyde: Is there cause there's personal jockeying and like who lost their job and who didn't, or who gets to like jobs for everybody, okay, but like why do you get that job and why did we keep your logo and why did we, you know, like all that stuff?
• 35:06
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, um, how do you get people through that?
• 35:10
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, is.
• 35:10
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, is one thing that happens in a business, right, right.
• 35:14
  Chuck Hyde: And so there's another client that I'm talking about right now.
• 35:18
  Chuck Hyde: Their season isn't in the book.
• 35:22
  Chuck Hyde: There's not a chapter that I can say go to chapter four, right.
• 35:27
  Chuck Hyde: But the point of the book is read chapter one.
• 35:30
  Chuck Hyde: That explains the logic.
• 35:31
  Chuck Hyde: Then pick any one of the other six yeah, chapter seven.
• 35:34
  Chuck Hyde: Read it and you've kind of explains the logic.
• 35:35
  Chuck Hyde: Then pick any one of the other six.
• 35:36
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, chapter seven, one of the seven.
• 35:37
  Chuck Hyde: Read it and you've kind of got the idea.
• 35:38
  Chuck Hyde: But then probe or provoke the reflective work that needs to be done to go okay, so let's write our own season, let's fill out this matrix on ourselves and then let's focus there as leaders.
• 35:53
  Chuck Hyde: So that's the idea of the book, that's why I wrote it.
• 35:55
  Chuck Hyde: It's where it came from.
• 35:56
  Chuck Hyde: It's been fun to see how it applies in different contexts and what people are doing with it.
• 36:01
  Chuck Hyde: So, yeah, one day I'm going to write a book.
• 36:05
  Chuck Hyde: Well, you talk about it but you never really think you'll do it.
• 36:08
  Chuck Hyde: But when that became a after, it did work.
• 36:12
  Chuck Hyde: So I didn't have to be right right.
• 36:15
  Chuck Hyde: But like I'm with that client group and it kind of worked, I was like, yeah, that could be a book, like that could have value outside of just this one client.
• 36:22
  Chuck Hyde: And so, yeah, it could be a DIY kind of thing, it can be a workshop, it could be just reflection, whatever, but that's.
• 36:31
  Mark Zweig: It makes sense.
• 36:31
  Mark Zweig: I mean, would you call that situational leadership then?
• 36:35
  Chuck Hyde: Well, I contrast it from situational leadership.
• 36:38
  Chuck Hyde: So, like the Blanchard-Hershey model of situational leadership has been around forever, it uses a lot of my coaching right and I contrast it.
• 36:46
  Chuck Hyde: In the book I say I've differentiated between the situation and the season, so the situation being more point in time, more finite.
• 36:55
  Chuck Hyde: You could take that and say, well, what's our situation?
• 36:58
  Chuck Hyde: Well, our situation is so you could blow that out.
• 37:03
  Chuck Hyde: They're much more the directing and supporting style of leadership that the model talks about.
• 37:09
  Chuck Hyde: Not to get too nerdy on that, but the contrast I'm saying is like let's just actually have a wider time horizon and a bigger scope than just maybe a finite task in this moment.
• 37:19
  Chuck Hyde: And how do I need to lead?
• 37:21
  Chuck Hyde: So I'd say they're related ideas, but this one is zoomed out a bit.
• 37:27
  Mark Zweig: What do you think about the seasons of an individual leader's life?
• 37:32
  Mark Zweig: Have you ever pondered that?
• 37:34
  Chuck Hyde: Like on a personal level.
• 37:36
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, and their leadership style.
• 37:37
  Mark Zweig: Like I can tell you, I am completely different now at 66 than I was when I was 30 as a leader.
• 37:44
  Mark Zweig: I'm going to be completely different.
• 37:47
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, I think that I agree with the concept for sure, yeah, I think that you know there's.
• 37:55
  Chuck Hyde: I agree with the concept for sure and I think which when you moved, you move from you know learning and acquiring and like hustling and doing you know types of early career type stuff to a.
• 38:07
  Chuck Hyde: You know it's a later in life where you become more of a teacher and a coach.
• 38:11
  Chuck Hyde: And I remember there was a time I was still at SodaQuest at the time and I couldn't figure out why some of our younger early career team members were struggling with certain ways in which we worked and I had by then had done most of the roles on our team.
• 38:31
  Chuck Hyde: I had a pretty good idea of things and they're like Chuck, you know.
• 38:34
  Chuck Hyde: The team members say Chuck, you know all this because you've been here that long, you know it.
• 38:38
  Chuck Hyde: You do it, and we were not a big team, we were maybe 30 people at our highest point, so a little bit of scale but still pretty nimble.
• 38:47
  Chuck Hyde: And so they were like, chuck, you've got to become a teacher of the business, like you've got to.
• 38:50
  Chuck Hyde: You know, connect the dot to y, and so I think, later in life, you know that ability to move from doer to the leader of the doers.
• 39:00
  Chuck Hyde: You know there's there's a whole one of the great books, again from curation is a leadership pipeline and there's there's these stages that leaders go through, uh, to the enterprise level, and you know what you, what you, when you're leading an enterprise thought level, like I'm thinking about all of the business, not just a unit or not just my team or not just my role, right, and so part of that happens with scope.
• 39:24
  Chuck Hyde: But I think where you're going, mark, with just the, the seasoning of a leader, I'm taking my style and, but I've got new experiences to add to it.
• 39:39
  Chuck Hyde: Um, absolutely, and I think it's the, the awareness for me someone had to point it out that, chuck, you're in a now, in a season of leadership, that, um, you've got to be more of a teacher of the business you're just going to respond differently to problems.
• 39:53
  Mark Zweig: I'm more.
• 39:53
  Mark Zweig: I'm more than thinking like the controversy.
• 39:55
  Eric Howerton: This is kind of a controversial conversation because, like to your point, mark, like to be a leader, like you almost have to have a lot of life experiences in your own life and business and go through a lot of business experiences to, kind of, in order to graduate.
• 40:16
  Eric Howerton: Like I would say, you can learn as much as you want in a book, which is helpful.
• 40:21
  Eric Howerton: You know it's helpful.
• 40:23
  Eric Howerton: But I mean, man, I look back.
• 40:24
  Eric Howerton: Good mentors are helpful, very much so, but there's a time capacity there, like you could mentor me all day long, like I mentor my kids all day long.
• 40:33
  Eric Howerton: They ain't listen to really anything I say and I know as a fact that they're going to have to find out the hard way right.
• 40:41
  Eric Howerton: They're going to run off and they're going to go to college.
• 40:44
  Eric Howerton: You're going to miss class and they're going to have to drop out of a class and it's going to have to be hard knocks a little bit for them.
• 40:50
  Eric Howerton: You know, that's an example, sure, but it's the same way I think in business, you know.
• 40:54
  Eric Howerton: I mean, when I was 22 years old, as an entrepreneur man, I had zero clue but I was going.
• 41:00
  Eric Howerton: And then, when I was 30, I still there was some dumb things I did in the beginning as far as just the leadership of other people and coaching, and you know how to, how to multiply yourself and how do you build a team, and I'm still learning that stuff right.
• 41:16
  Eric Howerton: And so I mean, you know, I think that, like, are we able?
• 41:22
  Eric Howerton: Is a human able to train a good young person to be a true bona fide leader, to lead an organization or a team?
• 41:32
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, I think it's— Truly lead.
• 41:33
  Chuck Hyde: I think it's part—it's a mixture right.
• 41:36
  Chuck Hyde: No one way is it teachable?
• 41:38
  Chuck Hyde: Is it teachable?
• 41:39
  Chuck Hyde: I think?
• 41:39
  Chuck Hyde: I think you can create opportunities right through a mentor, through a some type of formal education training program.
• 41:48
  Chuck Hyde: Like I tell people like I got my mba later.
• 41:50
  Chuck Hyde: My real mba was the four years I spent in wisconsin, right again inside the diaper business.
• 41:55
  Chuck Hyde: That was my MBA.
• 41:57
  Chuck Hyde: When I got the degree, I took the class later I was like, oh yeah, that's what we were doing back then.
• 42:00
  Mark Zweig: That's a dirty business.
• 42:01
  Mark Zweig: No, I'm just kidding.
• 42:03
  Chuck Hyde: It could smell.
• 42:03
  Chuck Hyde: It's kind of messy for sure.
• 42:06
  Chuck Hyde: We had a lot of fun with that those days back in the day.
• 42:13
  Ad: Because you know you got such yes, but it's like you've experienced by far you had to.
• 42:16
  Chuck Hyde: I mean so the thing that that kept happening to me is I was.
• 42:19
  Chuck Hyde: I found myself particularly in that time with, um well, my first leadership role I was I had people report every member in my routine had had worked in the facility.
• 42:30
  Chuck Hyde: That way I was in longer than I'd been alive, yeah.
• 42:34
  Eric Howerton: Boy, that's a hard one.
• 42:35
  Chuck Hyde: And I'm their boss right that is a hard situation.
• 42:39
  Chuck Hyde: And then going on through.
• 42:40
  Chuck Hyde: So I found myself having to play up a lot yeah, sure, and in terms of experience I was the kid in the room a lot.
• 42:50
  Chuck Hyde: What that did for me was create some intensity of of, and so I was remember one time I was, we were in the diaper business, we were running a project and it was like the second phase on this, this particular feature of the diaper and I go into my, my boss, I was a project leader and I was like I got John, I got bad days, man, like we're going to have to like rip it out and do it over, like that was the.
• 43:16
  Chuck Hyde: That was the conclusion.
• 43:16
  Chuck Hyde: Like that's what I'm bringing to the table.
• 43:18
  Chuck Hyde: Right At an awesome moment.
• 43:20
  Chuck Hyde: John's like had the whiteboard in his office.
• 43:23
  Chuck Hyde: He starts, like asking me questions and he starts, you know, writing down my answers, and you know, and like, at the end he's filling up his whiteboard and at the end he's filling up his whiteboard and at the end he literally walked me through that that decision would affect our quarterly earnings.
• 43:41
  Eric Howerton: It was like that many dollars.
• 43:42
  Eric Howerton: That's how serious of a guy he was.
• 43:43
  Chuck Hyde: That's how big it was.
• 43:44
  Chuck Hyde: And when I got there my eyes got big.
• 43:46
  Chuck Hyde: I was like, oh, and he didn't know right, right, sorry for bothering you.
• 43:54
  Mark Zweig: So, as I said, we're going to make this all work.
• 43:56
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, it won't be perfect.
• 44:00
  Chuck Hyde: But like that experience, like having to like work through that stuff, like he had in that moment he could have said that's dumb, Get out of my office.
• 44:08
  Chuck Hyde: Sure, Absolutely.
• 44:11
  Eric Howerton: He could have said he could have said that's done.
• 44:14
  Chuck Hyde: Here's why, right, get out of my office.
• 44:16
  Chuck Hyde: What he actually did was, and so anyway, I told him it was like Gary and Doug, and all these guys and Steve.
• 44:23
  Chuck Hyde: Those were the three guys.
• 44:24
  Chuck Hyde: Immediately I was like I'm going to tell you what he just did, and they're like he did that to you too.
• 44:28
  Chuck Hyde: And Gary's like he did that to you too, and it was his style, right, he was teaching us.
• 44:32
  Chuck Hyde: And so then, when we were, we'd find this and he would start doing the things, like, oh, he's doing the thing right.
• 44:37
  Chuck Hyde: We'd get excited because we're about to learn something.
• 44:38
  Chuck Hyde: Another boss was like you know, and this whole idea of messing up and failing, Like you know, when he's like you know, understand, you're juggling a lot of balls.
• 44:47
  Chuck Hyde: Some of are made of rubber, some are made of crystal, and know which ones, know which ones are which?
• 44:56
  Ad: yeah, because of the crystal and man, you got to catch that one, that's right.
• 44:57
  Chuck Hyde: These other ones if it falls, it falls, it drops, it drops.
• 45:00
  Chuck Hyde: You'll learn a lesson, and so, uh, so that's from just priority management, yeah, balls and crystal balls, and because you know and that was a great visual for me as it relates, then, to people and leadership I think there's a time when you're like, okay, I'm going to let them.
• 45:17
  Chuck Hyde: Do you have the courage to let somebody fail?
• 45:19
  Chuck Hyde: Or the courage to let somebody struggle for their learning?
• 45:23
  Chuck Hyde: It takes more time, it costs more money, whatever it does, and you know the answer faster.
• 45:27
  Chuck Hyde: And there's times when, like what you're talking about, like hey, do it this way.
• 45:39
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, no, you can't do that, and there are times when you've got to back off.
• 45:40
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, I've loved man, I am a that analogy.
• 45:41
  Eric Howerton: I am a rubber ball coach, all with my team, but I do love it like it's.
• 45:43
  Eric Howerton: There's something intuitive about it that I mean I'm just like no, you guys figure out the social campaign.
• 45:47
  Eric Howerton: They're like hey, what do you think?
• 45:48
  Eric Howerton: I'm like I don't, I don't want to see it.
• 45:49
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, no, it's not, I don't want to see it.
• 45:50
  Eric Howerton: I don't want to remain with anything.
• 45:52
  Eric Howerton: I want to see what the team does, because this is a place that it's got a high enough of a risk that they're nervous, right, and it's important for the business, but it's not so bad.
• 46:03
  Mark Zweig: I'm over here going like okay, you're not betting the farm on this, no man, and that could take two weeks and it's better.
• 46:09
  Mark Zweig: And that's the only way they're going to learn.
• 46:11
  Mark Zweig: Just let them struggle, let them learn, Let them grind through it.
• 46:15
  Chuck Hyde: There's no doubt about it and build that into them.
• 46:17
  Chuck Hyde: So I think you can grow it in that way.
• 46:19
  Chuck Hyde: Again, assuming there's a willing student, I think you've got to have that.
• 46:24
  Eric Howerton: I think the thing is is like, what I'm kind of trying to encourage is because I remember being young and getting frustrated, you know that I wasn't being taken seriously in certain conversations, you know, and that was really.
• 46:38
  Eric Howerton: That was a a completely unnecessary emotional experience for me like I didn't have to go through that, had I had a good lens on of, just in, of.
• 46:49
  Eric Howerton: Hey, man, like it's gonna take some freaking time, bro, if I could talk to my younger self.
• 46:54
  Eric Howerton: Shut up, take the time, learn from some of these mentors and, understanding that I go through this, but keep your fire.
• 47:02
  Eric Howerton: Keep your fire lit, but surround yourself, reach out for help.
• 47:07
  Eric Howerton: It's going to take a decade, honestly, for you to kind of develop the things and some of the tools from learnings, from coaching, from mentorship.
• 47:17
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, so they, and that's why, when you start turning the corner of a little bit more maturity, that things start happening for you in your business.
• 47:27
  Eric Howerton: I mean, having billionaire and millionaire young folks is an anomaly, right.
• 47:33
  Eric Howerton: I mean, it's not the norm.
• 47:36
  Eric Howerton: No, that's right.
• 47:37
  Eric Howerton: You're looking at a press release out of millions and millions of people that are younger, that are living actually in a very frustrated existence.
• 47:47
  Eric Howerton: It's a typical thing and I just think it's a disservice if that's not communicated, because you should be a little patient with yourself, know that's going to take some time and that you can't read a book now and then be a good leader, and you really don't even know what the definition of leadership is like it's a very.
• 48:06
  Eric Howerton: I've got some really excellent, including you two, and but like some of these other folks like mr squist yeah, like don tyson, like sam won't like doug mcmillan, all of them it's like bro like you know, latrice walkins, all of them are just.
• 48:22
  Eric Howerton: It's like they are legit.
• 48:25
  Eric Howerton: Yes, like the things that they think, I don't even know, I'm not even think about, um, yeah, I, I hear you.
• 48:32
  Mark Zweig: I hear you Think about JB Hunt, bro, yeah, and their CEO, who's a 50-year-old woman, shelly.
• 48:42
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, shelly, she's terrific.
• 48:43
  Mark Zweig: And just how you would be able to navigate that kind of business, to get to that level.
• 48:50
  Mark Zweig: It's beautiful.
• 48:51
  Mark Zweig: I mean, you've obviously got to be really smart and really good at dealing with people.
• 48:55
  Mark Zweig: You have to be so in tune.
• 48:58
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, it's amazing Every freaking second.
• 49:00
  Eric Howerton: I don't think that my younger self here's what I'm saying my younger self had the audacity to go.
• 49:07
  Eric Howerton: I could be doing that.
• 49:08
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, I know, and give me the job, bro, I'm in.
• 49:10
  Eric Howerton: I had that.
• 49:10
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, yeah, I know, and you know, give me the job, bro, I'm in.
• 49:12
  Eric Howerton: Like I had that.
• 49:13
  Eric Howerton: But I'm like man.
• 49:14
  Eric Howerton: My older self is like hey.
• 49:16
  Mark Zweig: I know that's like shit Totally.
• 49:19
  Mark Zweig: Somebody needs to do that.
• 49:20
  Mark Zweig: That's exactly it.
• 49:24
  Chuck Hyde: But you look at the ones that Isaac can say that I know.
• 49:25
  Chuck Hyde: So, whether it was, don, the things you would hear about Mr Sam Shelly, for sure, doug, for sure Doug.
• 49:31
  Chuck Hyde: They're so people-focused and so they've moved through the ranks, they've established their credibility.
• 49:36
  Chuck Hyde: They're good at what they do, but they give room for other people to be good at what they do, what you were talking about earlier, mark.
• 49:42
  Chuck Hyde: I'm sorry, eric, that would be the meanest thing.
• 49:44
  Chuck Hyde: I'd call you all day man.
• 49:45
  Chuck Hyde: No, it's fine, but they make space, they make capacity for other people to shine, and they know they need it, particularly at that scale Now let's talk about a different point of view on that.
• 50:00
  Mark Zweig: All right, because it is amazing and that takes a very unique individual who can do that.
• 50:04
  Mark Zweig: We all would agree, right?
• 50:06
  Mark Zweig: My only problem is that when we start looking at them as management researchers let's take, for example, good to great yeah, yeah, yeah, where we've got these corporations that have tremendous inertia Right and tons and tons of basically unlimited resources Right, and all these different engines and spark plugs out there firing, okay.
• 50:30
  Mark Zweig: And then we start looking at a Doug McMillan or a Shelley or whomever we want to talk about go, this is the way to be.
• 50:36
  Mark Zweig: Okay, now you got a 30 person company right.
• 50:39
  Mark Zweig: Okay, there, there's some.
• 50:42
  Mark Zweig: My contention is that a lot of that, simply, while it is sort of an idealized, ideal state in a way, and they're perfect- okay, yeah it's like is that gonna fly over?
• 50:56
  Chuck Hyde: no, it's I know it's 25 000 in the bank and my payroll is 50.
• 51:02
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, all right.
• 51:02
  Eric Howerton: Okay, this week, and it's friday, it's not man I mean, it is just because, because they are perfect, doesn't make them entrepreneurs.
• 51:11
  Eric Howerton: There's a big difference between which one of them entrepreneurs show up right.
• 51:14
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with you so much, because it's like talking about seasonalities.
• 51:20
  Eric Howerton: If I'm starting a business and I have just zero resources, zero employees, I mean I don't necessarily need to try to go be a really great leader, I need to go freaking drive some sales bro.
• 51:32
  Chuck Hyde: I need to call I.
• 51:32
  Chuck Hyde: You got to put the drugs on the board.
• 51:33
  Chuck Hyde: You got to put the drugs on the sales.
• 51:34
  Eric Howerton: bro, you got to drive.
• 51:35
  Eric Howerton: I need to call and I need to.
• 51:35
  Mark Zweig: I'm going to collect some.
• 51:36
  Mark Zweig: Can I sell something?
• 51:37
  Mark Zweig: I'm going to drive some cash.
• 51:38
  Mark Zweig: There's no policy to do that, bro.
• 51:40
  Mark Zweig: No, you move the car.
• 51:41
  Mark Zweig: You got to know it.
• 51:42
  Mark Zweig: I have no time, I can't In organizational life cycle theory.
• 51:50
  Chuck Hyde: There's a whole stuff we can learn out about that we don't have time for today.
• 51:53
  Chuck Hyde: But it's like when the three of us are like, hey, let's do the thing, we've got an idea, we'll do the thing, and the thing hasn't even been birthed yet, that takes on a certain air.
• 52:02
  Chuck Hyde: Okay, now we've signed some papers and we've got to go freaking sell.
• 52:06
  Chuck Hyde: We have got to put some points up.
• 52:09
  Chuck Hyde: Well then, all of a sudden you start getting some traction and then you go the model calls it go-go or the wild years Like everything's on between, like we're over and up, we're like, yeah, I can do that, I can do that, I can do everything.
• 52:19
  Mark Zweig: And all of a sudden you spread it, it's fun.
• 52:22
  Chuck Hyde: And it is like warp speed, which, and Love it.
• 52:28
  Chuck Hyde: That's why I do what I do.
• 52:29
  Chuck Hyde: Well, I do what I do, that is.
• 52:31
  Chuck Hyde: And then at some point you realize, okay, it's adolescence, right, and you're like I have to bring a little bit of discipline because the pain of some of the go-go is self-inflicted.
• 52:43
  Eric Howerton: And I've got to create a little bit right.
• 52:44
  Eric Howerton: Chuck, you just gave me the greatest epiphany of my life.
• 52:45
  Eric Howerton: Oh my God, what's that?
• 52:46
  Eric Howerton: I'm not and don't want to be.
• 52:48
  Eric Howerton: Grown up, You're pre grown up.
• 52:51
  Chuck Hyde: I want to be pre-L lesson to my dad forever 21 man.
• 52:57
  Mark Zweig: I love it 25 yeah, baby, that's our problem.
• 53:00
  Mark Zweig: We're 25, we're super, let's bring it full circle.
• 53:03
  Ad: Let's bring it full circle what do you do best?
• 53:07
  Chuck Hyde: what gives you energy?
• 53:08
  Chuck Hyde: Where's your highest value to a organization, even if the startup?
• 53:12
  Mark Zweig: so in the theory once you're at prime.
• 53:15
  Chuck Hyde: what the authors called the model calls prime.
• 53:16
  Chuck Hyde: Like we have arrived, we're hitting it on every cylinder.
• 53:20
  Chuck Hyde: You need someone who produces right Points on the board, absolutely.
• 53:25
  Chuck Hyde: You need some administration, like some systems and some press, some standardization.
• 53:29
  Chuck Hyde: You need someone who's great at that.
• 53:30
  Chuck Hyde: You need that entrepreneurial, the breed team.
• 53:34
  Chuck Hyde: Hey, I got an idea.
• 53:34
  Chuck Hyde: And then there's the interdependent piece.
• 53:37
  Chuck Hyde: That is okay, they're thinking about the whole thing.
• 53:40
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, for sure.
• 53:41
  Chuck Hyde: Like there's pain over here, it's felt over there, something over here has implications there, and they're thinking that way.
• 53:45
  Chuck Hyde: A leadership and no one person is going to be good in all four of those things.
• 53:50
  Chuck Hyde: That's right.
• 53:50
  Chuck Hyde: So you build a team that has actually all four there and, and I think a startup and an entrepreneur can get there right at the right season.
• 54:02
  Chuck Hyde: They need to get there, otherwise they're going to have a gap, they're going to struggle in some of those right they'll, they'll peak out.
• 54:04
  Mark Zweig: They right, they pick out.
• 54:06
  Mark Zweig: They age too quickly, they just, you know, and it's just like they never hit what they could be because here's the one phenomenon phenomenon though, that I'm curious if you've ever observed, okay, and this one I've experienced myself and I've certainly witnessed it, and that is, let's say, your business grows, your organization grows, it matures, it starts taking on the structure and you've got professional management in some of the different disciplines that you're not great at.
• 54:35
  Mark Zweig: Okay, whatever.
• 54:36
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, you get to a certain stage where you know you got good finance and accounting, good it, somebody running operations, somebody you know doing all the things that a business needs to do, the.
• 54:46
  Mark Zweig: What happens when they are?
• 54:50
  Mark Zweig: Those people decide they don't need the entrepreneur anymore.
• 54:54
  Mark Zweig: The entrepreneur is bad, he's a threat.
• 54:58
  Mark Zweig: He's a threat to our order.
• 55:00
  Mark Zweig: Okay, get rid of the entrepreneur.
• 55:04
  Eric Howerton: Don't listen to her, don't invite her to lunches, yeah, we have professional management now.
• 55:12
  Mark Zweig: Don't have him come to thises.
• 55:13
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, we have professional management now.
• 55:14
  Mark Zweig: Don't have him come to this meeting.
• 55:16
  Mark Zweig: I mean, and I see that a lot and I understand how people can feel like that, but I also feel like that's when the business many times loses its way.
• 55:28
  Chuck Hyde: Absolutely, because they've lost that juice, that energy, particularly if the entrepreneur was bringing that in, that PAEI format we were talking about.
• 55:37
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, the hill is PAEI.
• 55:39
  Eric Howerton: Producer administrator.
• 55:40
  Eric Howerton: Okay, you just acronym, I just acronym.
• 55:42
  Eric Howerton: That's beautiful.
• 55:43
  Eric Howerton: No, that's beautiful.
• 55:45
  Chuck Hyde: But if I take E out of that equation, like now, all of a sudden we drop into premature aging, bureaucracy sets in, you lose the innovation, you lose your market edge, you become irrelevant.
• 55:55
  Chuck Hyde: And I will tell you I'll tell you this.
• 55:57
  Chuck Hyde: At SodaQuest.
• 55:59
  Chuck Hyde: We were there and we had this weird thing that we did we would soda in front of everything.
• 56:03
  Chuck Hyde: I could be a soda project, or a soda this, or a soda that.
• 56:07
  Ad: Oh, okay.
• 56:07
  Chuck Hyde: And so I said y'all, what we've got to not ever become is Sotosaurus.
• 56:13
  Chuck Hyde: I was protected against becoming Sotosaurus, meaning extinct, right, like irrelevant.
• 56:18
  Chuck Hyde: It's like we have got to have an edge that keeps us there, and so I think that that's the risk, right?
• 56:24
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, I think you're right.
• 56:25
  Chuck Hyde: That's well stated.
• 56:26
  Chuck Hyde: But here's the flip side of that coin, though, mark is when the entrepreneur, that entrepreneurial founder, won't let go, can't let, can't let go holding on too tight.
• 56:38
  Chuck Hyde: And everybody in the building like defers, because we just love him so much.
• 56:45
  Chuck Hyde: We love her and you've kept and now we're not willing to tell her or him because we don't want to hurt their feelings.
• 56:52
  Chuck Hyde: We have so much respect and so much deference.
• 56:55
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, or fear, or fear.
• 56:57
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, right, that's that's.
• 56:59
  Chuck Hyde: And now the thing the emperor has?
• 57:01
  Chuck Hyde: No, and no one's willing to tell that.
• 57:03
  Chuck Hyde: Does that person right and so?
• 57:05
  Mark Zweig: the organization of order takers.
• 57:08
  Mark Zweig: That and it's dead.
• 57:10
  Chuck Hyde: Okay, it's not going to valuable, it's not going to be able to go.
• 57:13
  Chuck Hyde: It just plateaus off and decays rapidly.
• 57:16
  Mark Zweig: But that's a really interesting inflection point in any organization's development, Without a doubt, when it gets to that stage and then which way does it go?
• 57:26
  Mark Zweig: It's hard man.
• 57:29
  Chuck Hyde: The term in the theory and the research behind it is the founder's trap or the family trap.
• 57:33
  Chuck Hyde: If it's family business, the family trap.
• 57:35
  Chuck Hyde: So if you've got Gen 2 or Gen 3 now, the founder was awesome, but now Gen 2 or Gen 3.
• 57:39
  Chuck Hyde: And they're acting in that way and the business can't address.
• 57:45
  Chuck Hyde: You know, the elephant in the room is the way Gen 3 is working.
• 57:49
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, that's an argument their grandfather never did that or whatever right.
• 57:53
  Mark Zweig: Sometimes they do a better job than Gen 1.
• 57:55
  Eric Howerton: That's true, they really do.
• 57:57
  Eric Howerton: There's been a lot of cases like that.
• 57:59
  Mark Zweig: Matt Lewis is Gen 4.
• 58:00
  Ad: Yeah, man, he's taken it to a whole new level and I've seen other businesses that have done that you were talking earlier about.
• 58:06
  Chuck Hyde: You know we were talking about family I think it was maybe off air about family and the business.
• 58:10
  Chuck Hyde: Right, you know it's the, it's had the tone you set and sort of some some disciplines you exercise to allow that that succeeding generation to be who they are and bring the skill they bring, and they're doing things that the founder could never have dreamed, right.
• 58:26
  Chuck Hyde: And I think there's a lot to it and all that and how and how you're particularly in family business, how you, how you do that.
• 58:34
  Mark Zweig: Yes, that's a subject to it.
• 58:36
  Ad: There's a choice in all that and how you, particularly in family business, how you do that.
• 58:39
  Mark Zweig: Yes, that's a subject for another day.
• 58:42
  Mark Zweig: Without a doubt, I did a whole syllabi for, or syllabus.
• 58:43
  Mark Zweig: I should say that's the singular right.
• 58:46
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, who knows?
• 58:46
  Eric Howerton: I mean, who the hell really knows?
• 58:48
  Eric Howerton: Syllabus You're a family professor.
• 58:50
  Eric Howerton: You're a family business course You're like the best writer I've ever met in my life.
• 58:54
  Eric Howerton: You should know.
• 58:54
  Mark Zweig: I get confused.
• 58:55
  Mark Zweig: But no, I get one for family business class because there's just so many topics that are critical to it.
• 59:03
  Mark Zweig: Doesn't mean it can't work, but there are new dynamics at play.
• 59:05
  Mark Zweig: There are sure.
• 59:06
  Mark Zweig: I mean.
• 59:06
  Mark Zweig: I always thought one of the biggest problems family businesses have is good people don't want to work there because they assume that the other family members who are there are going to be treated better than they are.
• 59:19
  Mark Zweig: And even if it's not the case, that's the sort of implicit assumption.
• 59:24
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, that family business can only go so far here.
• 59:27
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, and they're going to monetize.
• 59:28
  Eric Howerton: And I mean, if you help build a company, you're never going to get anything.
• 59:32
  Eric Howerton: Yep, yep and so that's build a company you're never going to get anything, that's always a big.
• 59:35
  Mark Zweig: I always encourage family business owners to really think about what are you going to do to make sure you could actually have good people want to work here, because that's probably one of your biggest problems.
• 59:45
  Eric Howerton: Demonstrate by terminating multiple family members at random times that they will not cut it.
• 59:50
  Eric Howerton: Yes, sir, you're willing to go there it's.
• 59:54
  Mark Zweig: Sometimes the family members get treated worse because the founder doesn't want to look like they're doing and that's bad, but anyway well, this is some fascinating stuff and have fun.
• 1:00:07
  Mark Zweig: You're like a, you're like a doctor, you, you have to diagnose these, these situations and then working with other physicians you know.
• 1:00:18
  Chuck Hyde: Guide the treatment program right, otherwise it's malpractice.
• 1:00:23
  Eric Howerton: Are you taking more clients right now?
• 1:00:26
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, it's always a cycle, right you know, coming off a season of really just packed out.
• 1:00:33
  Chuck Hyde: I'm really glad the summer's gonna give me a little bit of some breathing room here and.
• 1:00:37
  Chuck Hyde: I'll see you at the back half of the year Because I need help.
• 1:00:42
  Eric Howerton: I need help.
• 1:00:42
  Eric Howerton: Chuck Bad Like immediately.
• 1:00:45
  Mark Zweig: I'd like to have Chuck on me.
• 1:00:46
  Mark Zweig: I just don't have any real businesses right now that he can work on.
• 1:00:50
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, no, I mean, I need help Chuck just makes you feel good, he does.
• 1:00:56
  Mark Zweig: I feel better right now.
• 1:00:57
  Mark Zweig: I feel like there might be like I don't have to worry.
• 1:00:59
  Mark Zweig: Every time I ever spend time with Chuck, I feel better at the end of the day.
• 1:01:05
  Mark Zweig: Oh, that's very kind, that's beautiful.
• 1:01:06
  Mark Zweig: That's beautiful, it's true.
• 1:01:07
  Mark Zweig: Well, chuck, we're glad you're here.
• 1:01:09
  Mark Zweig: So if anybody wants to find your book I know it's on amazon it is.
• 1:01:13
  Mark Zweig: Yeah, seasons, seasons in leadership yeah, um, and as far as being able to reach you, what is your contact?
• 1:01:20
  Chuck Hyde: uh, yeah, easiest way is uh, the uh website address, uh c, then the number three, adv, as an advisor.
• 1:01:27
  Chuck Hyde: So c3 advisors, c3advcom.
• 1:01:30
  Chuck Hyde: And here's what I thought I had on the book thing.
• 1:01:32
  Chuck Hyde: What's that so like?
• 1:01:34
  Chuck Hyde: How about we create a promo code that you know?
• 1:01:37
  Chuck Hyde: So Big Talk listener, if you want to.
• 1:01:41
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah, you guys can decide what the code is.
• 1:01:44
  Eric Howerton: We'll put it out there, just say Big Talk about small business.
• 1:01:48
  Chuck Hyde: Yeah.
• 1:01:49
  Mark Zweig: Okay, yeah, there's your promo code.
• 1:01:50
  Chuck Hyde: We'll post it, we'll post it, we'll give you a cover.
• 1:01:54
  Chuck Hyde: The shipping type Perfect.
• 1:01:56
  Eric Howerton: I'd rather do that.
• 1:01:57
  Eric Howerton: That's a good thing.
• 1:01:57
  Eric Howerton: Helps man.
• 1:01:58
  Eric Howerton: Yeah, that'd be great Because we have millions.
• 1:02:00
  Eric Howerton: Actually, we hit a pretty significant Billions, Billions of listeners across the world.
• 1:02:07
  Chuck Hyde: I'll send you the information on that and we'll go with that way.
• 1:02:10
  Eric Howerton: We did hit a good threshold though it is a good time to celebrate.
• 1:02:12
  Eric Howerton: We hit a pretty good milestone for our downloads just last week.
• 1:02:18
  Chuck Hyde: You guys kind of listened to it.
• 1:02:19
  Chuck Hyde: It's good.
• 1:02:20
  Chuck Hyde: Who do you?
• 1:02:22
  Eric Howerton: think is a better host, myself or Mark?
• 1:02:23
  Eric Howerton: I mean, you have to answer immediately.
• 1:02:26
  Mark Zweig: Chuck thinks you're better really Hell yeah, okay, and you are.
• 1:02:31
  Mark Zweig: But he doesn't want to say that because he doesn't want to hurt my feelings.
• 1:02:33
  Mark Zweig: I don't want to hurt anybody.
• 1:02:39
  Chuck Hyde: No, the fact that you guys have great chemistry.
• 1:02:40
  Chuck Hyde: And that's what makes this thing work, because you know you're going to have fun.
• 1:02:42
  Chuck Hyde: You talk some shit like a man.
• 1:02:43
  Chuck Hyde: Already you know you're going to take a tangent.
• 1:02:44
  Chuck Hyde: I was telling the guys out of the desk you're like you never know where this thing's going to go?
• 1:02:48
  Chuck Hyde: No, okay where's it going to go, and then you come back.
• 1:02:51
  Chuck Hyde: So it's a fun lesson, it's informative and you guys are a good team.
• 1:02:56
  Mark Zweig: I think we need to have Chuck back again.
• 1:02:57
  Mark Zweig: I love it Because I've got a couple other topics I'd like to get his input on.
• 1:03:01
  Eric Howerton: It almost feels like he needs to be back here as our counselor.
• 1:03:04
  Chuck Hyde: I know.
• 1:03:04
  Eric Howerton: On a recurring basis.
• 1:03:06
  Eric Howerton: That's like a reality TV show.
• 1:03:10
  Chuck Hyde: It's a Chuck seat.
• 1:03:11
  Mark Zweig: Then afterward he can debrief us and tell us what we could do better in a very gentle way, big talk.
• 1:03:16
  Chuck Hyde: Mark and Eric, I'll lock it.
• 1:03:20
  Mark Zweig: I'll lock the idea.
• 1:03:21
  Eric Howerton: It's great.
• 1:03:21
  Mark Zweig: Now we would love to have you back, chuck, and it's been great having you here, and I guess we've got to wrap it up.
• 1:03:28
  Mark Zweig: Yep, so let's all say our goodbyes.
• 1:03:30
  Mark Zweig: Yep, so let's all say our goodbyes.
• 1:03:33
  Mark Zweig: And that this has been another episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
• 1:03:40
  Eric Howerton: Boom, he busted out some JT.
• 1:03:42
  Eric Howerton: I was hoping he was going to JT it, because if I did it again it would be like dude come on, but she brought it in.
• 1:03:49
  Ad: There you go, chuck.
• 1:03:50
  Eric Howerton: Chuck, but she brought it in.
• 1:03:52
  Eric Howerton: There you go, chuck, chuck.
• 1:03:57
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• 1:04:00
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• 1:04:14
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