Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Building an International Financial Planning Business with $2bil AUM in 6 years! Chris Ball of Hoxton Capital Management

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Building an International Financial Planning Business with $2bil AUM in 6 years! Chris Ball of Hoxton Capital Management · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  sam oakes: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Chris Ball, ceo of Hoxton Capital Management here in Dubai, and it's extra special because I'm now working at Hoxton.
• 0:11
  sam oakes: I like to call these podcasts the Hoxton Life, so we're going to talk about what's changed in the last three years since Chris has been on my podcast what the international market looks like, what is his vision for the future.
• 0:25
  sam oakes: This is a fantastic episode if you're interested in learning more about Hoxton and the international advice market.
• 0:32
  sam oakes: So, chris, how cool is this?
• 0:45
  sam oakes: You're back back on the financial planner life podcast.
• 0:47
  sam oakes: Three years ago was your first appearance, and who would have thought I'd be sitting in dubai with you in this fantastic studio, with this great view?
• 0:55
  sam oakes: Not only that, I am now head of creative for your business, hoxton capital, so technically, you're my boss.
• 1:00
  sam oakes: I work for you technically.
• 1:02
  sam oakes: Technically, yeah, working on that one, yeah, exactly well, it's weird, man, because, like, I've been running my own business for 15 years, so to come in and then be employed is strange, um, but I did my due diligence in the market and I've done my due diligence and the people who run the businesses within financial planning now internationally.
• 1:21
  sam oakes: So when I came in, we connected and we spoke about your vision for what you want to build here at Hoxton to be the number one international financial planning business.
• 1:31
  sam oakes: It really struck a chord with me.
• 1:33
  sam oakes: Whilst I've been running a recruitment business it's now sold and building out the financial planner life podcast in the back of my mind.
• 1:41
  sam oakes: I've always had a burning ambition to want to build a financial planning practice.
• 1:45
  sam oakes: So your vision, your innovation, everything you're doing and we're going to learn about that today on the podcast struck a chord with me.
• 1:52
  sam oakes: So, as you said, get on the bus, sam, and let's work it out.
• 1:56
  sam oakes: So here I am, I'm on the bus, I'm in Dubai and I'm getting stuck in, and we're getting stuck in with the podcast today to learn exactly about your journey since the last time we spoke and where we're going to be going on the Hoxton bus.
• 2:07
  sam oakes: You up for it?
• 2:08
  sam oakes: I'm very much up for it.
• 2:09
  sam oakes: Yes, indeed Fantastic.
• 2:10
  sam oakes: I'll tell you what, chris.
• 2:11
  sam oakes: So three years ago you were on the podcast.
• 2:13
  sam oakes: Tell us a little bit about what's happened in that three years.
• 2:15
  sam oakes: What changes have happened?
• 2:16
  sam oakes: What big things have happened at Hoxton?
• 2:19
  Chris Ball: A lot.
• 2:19
  Chris Ball: A lot's happened since we last spoke three years I think, as a business.
• 2:23
  Chris Ball: Obviously, you know it's 50% or an extra 100%.
• 2:26
  Chris Ball: You know it was only three years old when you first started talking to us and now we're six years old, still very much in our you know infancy in terms of growing and in terms of building the business.
• 2:35
  Chris Ball: But I'd like to feel that we're much more established.
• 2:37
  Chris Ball: We've changed the track of the business in terms of the advice that we've given to much more holistic, much more client-led in terms of actually financially planning.
• 2:50
  Chris Ball: We were very geared to pension transfers for expats three years ago and now, obviously, that market is not there.
• 2:56
  Chris Ball: We've realized that actually there's a lot more to financial planning and it's enabled us to really grow as a business.
• 3:03
  Chris Ball: We've taken on a lot of great people.
• 3:05
  Chris Ball: So we're now 248.
• 3:07
  Chris Ball: I can't remember what it was last time.
• 3:08
  Chris Ball: I suppose it would have been less yet, but we was also.
• 3:12
  Chris Ball: We've also been more than 248 during that time as well.
• 3:14
  Chris Ball: So you know anyone in the financial planning, you know anyone in the financial planning profession will tell you 2022, 2023 were tough years.
• 3:22
  Chris Ball: You know.
• 3:23
  Chris Ball: Markets were down, interest rates went up.
• 3:26
  Chris Ball: It was a tough time to be a financial advisor and I feel now, in 2024, we're in a really positive space.
• 3:31
  Chris Ball: There's a lot of good momentum behind what we're doing and behind the general profession as well.
• 3:36
  Chris Ball: It's a good time to be a financial advisor.
• 3:37
  Chris Ball: So you know we've we've cut and we've trimmed in in the places that we needed to.
• 3:42
  Chris Ball: Um, I think, like with any fast-growing business, that's always a worry.
• 3:46
  Chris Ball: You know you grow really quickly and can you sustain that, and also you also you know you become fat in certain areas and you overlook certain things.
• 3:54
  Chris Ball: So it was a really good chance for us to reflect and to make sure that the business was good.
• 3:58
  Chris Ball: We got some fantastically you know brilliant people that work for the business.
• 4:03
  Chris Ball: Obviously, you would just hide yourself, which is great, and we'll include you in that, of course, but you know the advisor talent that we've been focusing on.
• 4:11
  Chris Ball: Chartered financial planners I know we'll talk about maybe one of them later that's coming to run our uk offices.
• 4:17
  Chris Ball: Jacob's been promoted to head of advice.
• 4:19
  Chris Ball: He's probably one of the most caring people I know and you know we've got a really, really good quality team of people that have been with us for a long time as well, and I think that's what a lot of people worry about is, you know what may it might work out, might not work out for me, um, at hoxton, and you know what I would say is our key management team have been there with me pretty much from the start.
• 4:40
  Chris Ball: I mean, alan and paul have been there from pretty much day.
• 4:42
  Chris Ball: Dot Charlie's come in and, you know, hope he doesn't go anywhere because I'd be lost without him.
• 4:47
  Chris Ball: Christine has been with me for, you know, coming up, it must be 10, 11 years now.
• 4:52
  Chris Ball: Julie and HR, everyone that is on the bus that is doing a good job, will continue to be on there as long as they want to and, as you know, as long as we're all working together, we're a team.
• 5:08
  Chris Ball: Together we're a team.
• 5:08
  Chris Ball: We're not a family, um, but you know that's important because we all want great team players around us and we all want to push in the right direction.
• 5:10
  sam oakes: You said you're a team, not a family.
• 5:11
  sam oakes: Yeah, I never massively liked the term family yeah someone described my business as a family.
• 5:15
  sam oakes: It's not a family.
• 5:16
  sam oakes: No, it's a team.
• 5:17
  sam oakes: Why, why are you so distinct about that?
• 5:20
  Chris Ball: um, because I think in the team you have to pull your weight.
• 5:23
  Chris Ball: In a family you can drag along, and I think that's unfair to everyone else in the business as well.
• 5:28
  Chris Ball: If you're not doing your job that you've been brought in to do, that really impacts everyone else within the business.
• 5:33
  Chris Ball: Yeah, um, you know that unfortunately drags other people down and doesn't enable them to do it.
• 5:38
  Chris Ball: There's, you know there's a really interesting uh, reed hastings, you know who runs uh netflix.
• 5:43
  Chris Ball: He um made a um.
• 5:46
  Chris Ball: You know he made a really good point.
• 5:48
  Chris Ball: They they cut a lot of people and they were really worried about the productivity.
• 5:51
  Chris Ball: But the people they cut they found out were actually slowing down everyone else within the business because, you know, it's not just the one person does one thing, it's multiple people do multiple things.
• 6:01
  Chris Ball: Um, and they interact, and how they interact is how well they do.
• 6:05
  Chris Ball: If this side is lagging, it doesn't enable you to do your job well.
• 6:08
  Chris Ball: So you know it was, as any business, any growth, anything that what you do.
• 6:14
  Chris Ball: You learn by experience, and not everything always works out.
• 6:17
  Chris Ball: How you envisage it to what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
• 6:21
  Chris Ball: But you've got to be able to look into the distance and say what is right for the business.
• 6:26
  Chris Ball: You have to take sometimes emotion out of it.
• 6:29
  Chris Ball: I might really like the person, but if it's tough and they're not doing what they need to do, then you need to have a serious conversation.
• 6:37
  Chris Ball: If they don't manage to sort out the issues, then it has to be time to part ways, and that's good for them because they hopefully will go and do something that they want to do well going forward, but it's also important for the business to continue to grow.
• 6:49
  sam oakes: So that's what I mean long way of describing it team versus family yeah, and I also love the fact that you've got a leadership team and the leadership team is very diverse, yeah, and also in that leadership team, everybody's doing something different.
• 7:00
  sam oakes: Yeah, they all have a skill set.
• 7:02
  sam oakes: But one of the things I've noticed very early on, it almost feels like shades of gray because they're all kind of quite interlinked as well.
• 7:09
  sam oakes: So certain types of personalities, it's like it's like a rainbow, if you like, of a leadership team.
• 7:14
  sam oakes: Yeah, it's like everybody's kind of complementing each other, but they're actually quite closely linked.
• 7:18
  sam oakes: So you've picked your leadership team really really well.
• 7:20
  sam oakes: Yeah, it seems to connect.
• 7:21
  sam oakes: You haven't got anybody out there who's just completely rogue.
• 7:24
  sam oakes: Yeah, everyone seems to be working as a team, working as a unit no one's a maverick yeah, I can move through it really easily.
• 7:30
  sam oakes: But each time you move through it really easily, that person's got a huge skill set that I'm not experienced in, so I can lean really, really quickly.
• 7:37
  sam oakes: If I want to talk about I don't finance charlie's there, you know he's the man around finance.
• 7:41
  sam oakes: If I want to talk about, about operation strategy, bang over to you.
• 7:44
  sam oakes: You're like Sam, sit down, we're going to work this out.
• 7:46
  sam oakes: Jake massively empathic, isn't he?
• 7:49
  sam oakes: He's like a great guy.
• 7:50
  sam oakes: You know that.
• 7:51
  sam oakes: He knows everything that's going on with each and every one of those people that are in that business.
• 7:55
  sam oakes: You know, paul, what a great guy when it comes to compliance.
• 7:57
  sam oakes: Like, I'm really looking, because I think people on the outside right look at the international market and have kind of poo-pooed it massively based on what they hear on Facebook groups.
• 8:12
  sam oakes: Look, historically, there's some bad things that might have happened.
• 8:14
  sam oakes: Right, running an international business, you've got six jurisdictions, six different types of regulators.
• 8:20
  sam oakes: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 8:21
  sam oakes: So you can imagine running a business in the UK with the fca breathing down your neck.
• 8:25
  Chris Ball: You've got six yeah, I mean, look, regulation's a good thing, number one, we all know that.
• 8:29
  Chris Ball: But we all know it's hard work.
• 8:30
  Chris Ball: So anyone in the uk will tell you that dealing with all of the regulations that you have to make sure that you adhere to to be able to operate correctly and successfully as a financial advisor or building your business in the uk, it's tough.
• 8:43
  Chris Ball: It's not an easy option.
• 8:45
  Chris Ball: Now you times that by six, you know that takes a certain skill set and a certain person to be able to do that.
• 8:51
  Chris Ball: Thankfully that's not me.
• 8:52
  Chris Ball: Thankfully that is Paul who is that person.
• 8:56
  Chris Ball: But it's about identifying the people that do well in those roles.
• 8:59
  Chris Ball: I mean, paul is so multifaceted in terms of his ability to be able to get understand in the different jurisdictions what's needed and what's not needed.
• 9:10
  Chris Ball: He didn't have that when he came to us.
• 9:11
  Chris Ball: He's developed that over time but he's rapidly done it, as we've rapidly scaled as well.
• 9:16
  Chris Ball: And also, you know we employ experts in the region.
• 9:19
  Chris Ball: So in UK, got a head of compliance who's just focusing on the UK with, you know, three file checkers underneath In Australia, we got a head of compliance who's just focusing on the UK with, you know, three file checkers underneath In Australia.
• 9:27
  Chris Ball: We have a head of compliance In the US.
• 9:29
  Chris Ball: We actually outsource our compliance to a company and the person that deals with us in that company used to work for the SEC Locally.
• 9:37
  Chris Ball: Paul was an expert with ESCA and DIFC, with the DFSA, you know, which is something obviously we'll touch on in a minute.
• 9:44
  Chris Ball: But we've got a lot of bases covered in Europe.
• 9:47
  Chris Ball: We outsource that as well.
• 9:48
  Chris Ball: So you know it's it's not kind of there's one person just trying to look after and pretend they know everything.
• 9:53
  Chris Ball: It's about taking it seriously, sam, because if you don't get that part of the business right, everything fails very, very quickly.
• 10:00
  Chris Ball: Compliance any financial planner will tell you now is such an important part.
• 10:06
  Chris Ball: Now, it shouldn't be everything, but it's one of the foundations, it's one of the building blocks.
• 10:09
  Chris Ball: If you don't get that right, you have not got a financial plan in business.
• 10:12
  Chris Ball: You are, you know you are putting your business at risk, you're putting the people's jobs that work for you at risk and you're putting your clients at risk, which no one wants to do under any circumstance.
• 10:23
  Chris Ball: So we spend seven figures a year on compliance across the business and you know that's the scale that we operate, that's the investment that we do, but we don't see it as a cost.
• 10:32
  Chris Ball: It is an investment into making sure that our business is valuable going forward.
• 10:36
  sam oakes: Something happened, didn't it, in the last couple of years.
• 10:38
  sam oakes: You're put under a bit of pressure.
• 10:39
  sam oakes: Tell us a little bit about that, because I think that yeah pays testament then to the actual business and the strength.
• 10:43
  sam oakes: Yeah look, I mean you know we were.
• 10:45
  Chris Ball: We're all very, uh, familiar I won't name names for, but I'm sure I've seen the person where so bright advisors.
• 10:50
  Chris Ball: When that happened the debacle that happened there regulators around the world were all of a sudden very, very interested in companies that operated internationally.
• 10:58
  Chris Ball: It was last year, kind of march, april time.
• 11:02
  Chris Ball: We got a knock on the door from one regulator.
• 11:04
  Chris Ball: Then three or four weeks afterwards, we got a knock on the door from one regulator.
• 11:05
  Chris Ball: Then three or four weeks afterwards we got a knock on the door from the other, and another, and another.
• 11:08
  Chris Ball: So we had four regulatory inspections last year in terms of scratching beneath what we were doing and trying to find out a little bit more about what's going on.
• 11:17
  Chris Ball: Number one I don't believe in coincidence.
• 11:18
  Chris Ball: I was thinking what on earth is going on?
• 11:20
  Chris Ball: You know like why four all at the same time?
• 11:22
  Chris Ball: Number two you know.
• 11:25
  Chris Ball: Number two it was anyone that's been through any kind of regulatory oversight or you know, as a big business.
• 11:32
  Chris Ball: Regulators want to understand what's going on in your business.
• 11:35
  Chris Ball: They have every right to.
• 11:36
  Chris Ball: They want to make sure the clients are being treated fairly and looked after, which is what they're there to do.
• 11:40
  Chris Ball: That's their job and that's a good thing.
• 11:42
  Chris Ball: It's stressful because you don't know what you know, you don't know where you are, you know, you don't know why.
• 11:48
  Chris Ball: It's kind of like it's not kind of well, you've done this, this and this you know.
• 11:51
  Chris Ball: You know it was kind of a in and it's an inspection, it's an audit into what you're doing.
• 11:55
  Chris Ball: So we had four knock on the door at the same time.
• 11:58
  Chris Ball: We had the sec, we had asic, we had um, we had the fCA and we also had the local regulators, securities and commodities authority, through the different businesses.
• 12:09
  Chris Ball: So, clearly, you know, kind of hindsight 2020, you look back and you go okay, you know.
• 12:12
  Chris Ball: That's the reason why They'd obviously honed into something that was happening there, with Bright maybe, and then they were like right, all the other businesses that operate in that kind of way, we're going to look at more and we're going to check.
• 12:26
  Chris Ball: So we went through that.
• 12:28
  Chris Ball: Paul did an amazing job countless hours, but not just Paul.
• 12:32
  Chris Ball: Multiple people from the business chipped in to make sure that we had all the information, all the management information that they wanted, all of the files.
• 12:38
  Chris Ball: Like you know, it was a lot of work and it would take me all day to name all the people that were there.
• 12:43
  Chris Ball: They know who they are and they've done an amazing job on it.
• 12:45
  Chris Ball: We got through it.
• 12:46
  Chris Ball: So sec came back with um.
• 12:49
  Chris Ball: You know they and they and a regulator will always come back with some comments that you can do better.
• 12:52
  Chris Ball: That's a good thing as well.
• 12:53
  Chris Ball: They're not sitting there kind of trying to cut you down.
• 12:55
  Chris Ball: They're sitting there trying to make your business better.
• 12:57
  Chris Ball: Actually, the sec had a, you know had a call with us to onboard us in the US and you know, ask us, we're interested in finding out what we're doing and how we're doing it and show us.
• 13:07
  Chris Ball: You know, these are the mistakes that other companies have made.
• 13:09
  Chris Ball: You know you might want to do this, this and this I mean amazing.
• 13:12
  Chris Ball: A regulator telling you what you should be doing is fantastic.
• 13:16
  Chris Ball: Fca, you know, again, we sent files off.
• 13:18
  Chris Ball: We've had check chats with them trying to.
• 13:20
  Chris Ball: You know areas right, that they were slightly unhappy with and you know all the other bits and pieces that go with it.
• 13:24
  Chris Ball: The good news is number one, we're still in business.
• 13:27
  Chris Ball: Number two, no regulatory action across across anything.
• 13:30
  Chris Ball: And number three, we've got a much better insight now into what regulators want.
• 13:33
  Chris Ball: So, while it was really stressful at the time because you're going through all of these things.
• 13:36
  Chris Ball: It's also important to understand that that's not a bad thing.
• 13:39
  Chris Ball: They're going to be interested in what we're doing.
• 13:42
  Chris Ball: We we're international.
• 13:42
  Chris Ball: We're not vanilla.
• 13:43
  Chris Ball: We don't operate how a normal IFA would work in their country of residence.
• 13:47
  Chris Ball: But you know we now have a good working relationship with them.
• 13:52
  Chris Ball: They know we're not out there to try and screw people over.
• 13:54
  sam oakes: They know you know they've seen how we're giving advice and what we're doing and you know for me they seem comfortable with it so I'm able to move on it's nice, isn't it, sometimes to put yourself in that state of discomfort, because when you are in a state of discomfort and the scrutiny is on you and the eyes are on you, you learn a lot about what it is you're doing and you might sort of look in at areas where it exposes weaknesses.
• 14:15
  sam oakes: 100 and it's good.
• 14:17
  Chris Ball: It's good for you to feel uncomfortable, right 100 you want to put, like anything you do in life you want to be on the edge of.
• 14:22
  Chris Ball: If you're comfortable, then you're not pushing yourself hard enough.
• 14:24
  Chris Ball: Um, would I have rather not have had them all come in at the same time?
• 14:28
  Chris Ball: Definitely.
• 14:28
  Chris Ball: Would paul not?
• 14:29
  Chris Ball: You know, yes, definitely.
• 14:30
  Chris Ball: But they did, yeah, and ultimately you got to deal with the cards you get given.
• 14:34
  Chris Ball: You know, suck it up, buttercup, it's, get things into shape.
• 14:37
  Chris Ball: And, um, you know, and and make, make the changes.
• 14:42
  Chris Ball: If you don't make the changes and you keep messing up on the same point, that's when you got a problem.
• 14:47
  Chris Ball: I bet that built great team morale, mind it did.
• 14:50
  Chris Ball: I mean they can also break teams as well.
• 14:52
  Chris Ball: You know, it's not just because that happens and you all get.
• 14:55
  Chris Ball: If you all get through it, it's great.
• 14:56
  Chris Ball: You slap yourselves on the back, but relationships can be fractured from that process, depending upon how certain people react.
• 15:01
  Chris Ball: I find myself, personally, when I'm under a lot of pressure, I come out actually quite well from it.
• 15:05
  Chris Ball: I tend to be much calmer than if I have a small problem.
• 15:08
  Chris Ball: I can lose it sometimes.
• 15:10
  Chris Ball: Like you know, small thing, you know, but actually big problems when you need to be all grouped together, fantastic team, fantastic mentality, and you know it was really positive the outcome.
• 15:21
  sam oakes: And you know we're sitting here today growing our business exponentially, acquiring businesses in the uk and moving forward it's good to hear actually, because big problems for me and it aren't an issue is small ones for me.
• 15:30
  sam oakes: I've got to be very careful, yeah.
• 15:31
  sam oakes: A friend of mine used to always say it's the flies you've got to watch out for.
• 15:34
  sam oakes: Yeah, because they build up and if you don't deal with the flies, another fly will come along, and another one, and all of a sudden you're like oh, it's too much like overwhelm.
• 15:41
  sam oakes: Yeah, the small ones, because you minimize them, don't you?
• 15:43
  sam oakes: You push them away.
• 15:44
  sam oakes: Yeah, you think yourself.
• 15:45
  sam oakes: I don't need to think about that right now, because I've got bigger things to think about.
• 15:47
  sam oakes: And if you don't deal with it, it builds up and another one comes a big problem.
• 15:49
  sam oakes: Yeah, it becomes, a big problem.
• 15:51
  Chris Ball: So the easiest time to put out a fire when it first starts?
• 15:54
  Chris Ball: Yeah, now you don't, obviously.
• 15:55
  Chris Ball: You know prevention is better than cure.
• 15:57
  Chris Ball: Yeah, um, clearly.
• 15:58
  Chris Ball: But you want to put it out as soon as it happens.
• 16:00
  Chris Ball: You don't want to give it oxygen, let it flame and let it turn into something big six years, then you've done really well.
• 16:06
  sam oakes: So what's your aum at the moment?
• 16:07
  Chris Ball: so aum is just over two billion dollars at the moment, which obviously is, as we've seen, rapid growth.
• 16:12
  Chris Ball: You know, again, that's being holistic.
• 16:14
  Chris Ball: I mean we're up to I think q1 of 2024 uh was about 125 million uh sterling.
• 16:21
  Chris Ball: That was what's that in dollars?
• 16:22
  Chris Ball: 150 million dollars of inflows into the business from?
• 16:26
  Chris Ball: You know all the different areas and the different advisors.
• 16:28
  Chris Ball: We've also, you know, really looking at acquisitions.
• 16:31
  Chris Ball: Now it's acquired three ifas in the uk uh retiring ifas um and started to integrate them into the business.
• 16:39
  Chris Ball: That's been a learning curve as well, again out of our comfort zone, doing something that we haven't done previously but really, really enjoyed that.
• 16:47
  Chris Ball: It's been really satisfying to work with these people who are it's their life's work and you're taking that and integrating it into your business and ensuring the continuity of service.
• 16:57
  Chris Ball: You know these guys have had a personal relationship with some of these people for 20 plus years.
• 17:01
  Chris Ball: They're trusting you to take that forward.
• 17:03
  Chris Ball: It's a big thing yeah really big.
• 17:06
  Chris Ball: Thing absolutely.
• 17:07
  sam oakes: And also that again you've got to deal with that credibility of the offshore market, the international market coming back, coming now into the uk, which is ifa as well.
• 17:13
  sam oakes: Everyone needs to understand that you guys are ifa in the uk, right, um, which is a big deal.
• 17:17
  sam oakes: It's good to be like.
• 17:17
  sam oakes: It's good to be ifa like um.
• 17:19
  sam oakes: They robinson would say on my podcast ifa or the highway, yeah, you know that did well that podcast episode, yeah, so it's good for them to what's their reaction when you say, like, you know, we're an international firm yeah, I think some people like it, some people don't.
• 17:31
  Chris Ball: I mean a few, you know, ladies business Bartholomew, karen, who who we uh, who we acquired she actually had a few international clients, uh, people that were living abroad, people who maybe wanted that.
• 17:41
  Chris Ball: So actually it fit in really well.
• 17:42
  Chris Ball: And the fact, you know, the fact is, is that as a bigger business and operating across multiple jurisdictions, we have things that others might not.
• 17:49
  Chris Ball: So we've got a tax team, in-house charter tax advisor, chart accountants that sit in our business advising people on tax, not financial advice.
• 17:57
  Chris Ball: We have a legal team that deal with trusts and wills.
• 18:00
  Chris Ball: We have, um, you know, investment advisors.
• 18:03
  Chris Ball: We have financial planners.
• 18:04
  Chris Ball: We have, you know, investment advisors.
• 18:05
  Chris Ball: We have financial planners.
• 18:06
  Chris Ball: We have, you know, all the facets of a business under one roof, a financial planning business that you would want, which is really attractive to someone who's been operating as a one-man band and relying on other people.
• 18:15
  Chris Ball: So you know they've embraced it.
• 18:18
  Chris Ball: I mean, obviously it's not for everyone and some people turn around and go.
• 18:21
  Chris Ball: You know the whole international thing doesn't do it for me, but that's cool, you find that out at the start and it's not right for everyone.
• 18:27
  Chris Ball: We can't be everything to everyone but establishing that local footprint and, you know, working with the likes of the person that you've brought in, essentially introduced to the business to run the UK side of it, and Nathan, our director in the UK, been massive, you know, to build out that local presence.
• 18:47
  sam oakes: Yeah, you've got.
• 18:47
  sam oakes: You've got a lovely office as well in st albans, really nice.
• 18:49
  sam oakes: Yeah, it's great.
• 18:50
  sam oakes: I know we've been talking about, but I want to say who it is who's joined because I don't know when this podcast is going to be out and we want to kind of announce it properly yeah um, but somebody I've known for quite some time is coming in to head up the uk, and that's fantastic, isn't it?
• 19:03
  sam oakes: because having somebody on the ground in the uk who understands the uk markets understands the uk audience, not to say you don't chris, well, I don't, yeah, I haven't operated in that market, let's just know.
• 19:13
  sam oakes: Yeah, that's, that's.
• 19:14
  sam oakes: That's the general just call it for what it is.
• 19:16
  sam oakes: It's good for you exactly so.
• 19:18
  sam oakes: Having that person come on in and understand the uk market and start to be able to communicate and build a presence there is going to be huge, and some of the locations we're looking at in respect to building out office spaces, teams, flagship branches of our business it's just going to be amazing like I understand the uk market.
• 19:34
  sam oakes: I talk to the uk market all the time and I know there's such a huge opportunity.
• 19:37
  sam oakes: Yeah, for me, though, what's really interesting another reason why I come on board is the international side.
• 19:43
  sam oakes: I think sometimes the international, international advice gets played down a little bit too much or gets, like I say, it gets pushed to one side.
• 19:49
  sam oakes: Yeah, the more you look under the bonnet and the more you understand it, the more huge opportunity there is.
• 19:53
  sam oakes: The world's becoming a smaller place, and when we're talking about things like the 401ks over in the us, I mean that's just a huge opportunity the sheer volume of wealth in the us, and to sit down with an advisor in the uk who's advising us clients from the uk massive.
• 20:11
  sam oakes: He's like what.
• 20:12
  sam oakes: I never really understood that and heard it, and the thing is, I don't think many advisors get it.
• 20:16
  sam oakes: They kind of push it to one side because they're hyper focused on the uk.
• 20:19
  sam oakes: Yeah, if they open their mind a little bit to the opportunity of being international, what will that bring them?
• 20:26
  sam oakes: Yeah, what level of service can they deliver?
• 20:29
  sam oakes: Do they become an international advisor?
• 20:31
  sam oakes: Is there a stigma attached to it?
• 20:33
  sam oakes: Does there need to be?
• 20:34
  sam oakes: No, I don't think so.
• 20:35
  Chris Ball: I think it opens you up to the whole world, agreed I think, how I think of things is global, and that's very fortunate because I've been i'm'm very fortunate in the fact that I've been operating in a global environment for a long time.
• 20:49
  Chris Ball: So the business I last worked for was global.
• 20:50
  Chris Ball: So that's pretty much all I've known.
• 20:51
  Chris Ball: But if you think of big brands, they're global brands.
• 20:54
  Chris Ball: They're not unique to that country.
• 20:56
  Chris Ball: So, you know, the brand that I really like is HSBC.
• 21:00
  Chris Ball: The reason why I like HSBC is it caters for everyone.
• 21:07
  Chris Ball: So in the UK you can go into a HSBC branch.
• 21:08
  Chris Ball: It doesn't just mean because they're an international bank, you can only bank with them.
• 21:11
  Chris Ball: If you've got some US assets that you want to, you know, you want them to take custody of, or you want you know to open a US dollar bank account, you can go to them.
• 21:17
  Chris Ball: You can have a sterling bank account.
• 21:18
  Chris Ball: You can deal with them.
• 21:19
  Chris Ball: They're great.
• 21:20
  Chris Ball: But on the flip side, they can deal with.
• 21:22
  Chris Ball: They can deal with really small clients.
• 21:24
  Chris Ball: They can deal with really big clients.
• 21:25
  Chris Ball: They can deal with super high net worth clients.
• 21:27
  Chris Ball: Covers the whole spectrum.
• 21:29
  Chris Ball: And that's what we're trying to do with hoxton we're trying to build this global brand but has a local presence in the jurisdiction where you are.
• 21:35
  Chris Ball: Yeah, you know, I, I agree and I think that as an ifa, it's very difficult if you're working with a client that doesn't have, that has an asset that you can't help with, because as an ifa, really to give full advice, you need to have a full picture of their overall wealth.
• 21:50
  Chris Ball: The days of I don't deal with that you know are gone.
• 21:53
  Chris Ball: You need to be able to position and help people and, unfortunately, if you can't and you are dealing with people that that do have assets, let's say, in the states, or want to retire to Europe or want to go to Australia to work or whatever it is, you will lose that client fact.
• 22:08
  Chris Ball: They will go, they will find someone who can help them and they will go from there.
• 22:12
  Chris Ball: You know so.
• 22:13
  Chris Ball: For me it doesn't mean just because you're working for an international business.
• 22:15
  Chris Ball: You have to have clients all over the world, far from it.
• 22:17
  Chris Ball: But it gives you the opportunity to offer that service.
• 22:19
  Chris Ball: It gives you the opportunity to attract those type of clients and we all know, you know someone who has worked in the US for a long period of time is highly likely to need clients, financial advice, and your services will be highly valued by that person and they will be really, really important to them and their family's future I think as well the whole like smart move getting the tax under the roof as well.
• 22:43
  Chris Ball: Yeah, I mean mark and dan are great.
• 22:45
  Chris Ball: You know mark, older, older guy chart tax advisor early 60s.
• 22:51
  Chris Ball: Dan um, you know early 30s training, learning everything you can off mark to take forward that business over time.
• 22:59
  Chris Ball: Um, you know chart account and chart tax advisor both you know super intelligent guys and they understand the the space that we operate in.
• 23:07
  Chris Ball: They're looking at it not from a well, I need to do your tax return and I can't advise on that.
• 23:11
  Chris Ball: They're looking at this from a international tax understand uk.
• 23:14
  Chris Ball: You understand the European regimes and things like that work with US tax advisors on that side.
• 23:19
  Chris Ball: So they encompass a lot of the things that are needed for how we operate.
• 23:26
  sam oakes: You touched on age there.
• 23:27
  sam oakes: Let's just quickly just touch on that, because you're a young business.
• 23:30
  sam oakes: Yeah, we are Another reason why I'm attracted to it.
• 23:32
  sam oakes: To me, a young business isn't, you know, about to exit.
• 23:35
  sam oakes: You know you're not building up towards an exit, you're looking to put your foot down.
• 23:38
  sam oakes: Yeah, you've got that growth mentality.
• 23:40
  sam oakes: So let's just talk about the culture of the business, the age the business, the um, the fact you've got quite a fair few women in the business.
• 23:46
  sam oakes: It's multicultural.
• 23:46
  sam oakes: Yeah, you know, you walk through the door.
• 23:48
  sam oakes: It's multicultural.
• 23:48
  Chris Ball: Tell us a little bit about chris yeah, I think it's 16 different nationalities we've got in the business, which is I don't know too many other IFAs that have that We've got 30% of the people in our business are women.
• 23:59
  Chris Ball: Obviously, I'd like that to be closer to 50%.
• 24:02
  Chris Ball: You know something we're actively working on and, you know, trying to build out, but you know that's really important in it.
• 24:08
  Chris Ball: I think you know you.
• 24:09
  Chris Ball: You told me that was 13% of IFAs are female and you know 87% are a male.
• 24:17
  Chris Ball: You know the fact that we're kind of bucking that trend, which is great.
• 24:20
  Chris Ball: Average age in our business for an advisor at the moment is 37.
• 24:24
  Chris Ball: Average age for a trainee financial planner is 29, I believe you know it's a young, dynamic business.
• 24:32
  Chris Ball: I'm 37 years old.
• 24:34
  Chris Ball: I'm you know I have no intentions of retiring.
• 24:36
  Chris Ball: Number one because my wife will probably end up divorcing me, you know.
• 24:40
  Chris Ball: Number two, I couldn't think of anything worse than to sit at home on my hands.
• 24:44
  Chris Ball: And number three, I'm really passionate about what I do.
• 24:46
  Chris Ball: I enjoy getting up for work every day.
• 24:48
  Chris Ball: I couldn't imagine exiting and then trying to find my feet and doing something else I really like.
• 24:55
  Chris Ball: Like it, but also to the point was, you know, I realized I might not always be in charge of the business as well.
• 24:58
  Chris Ball: If there's someone better to do it than me I'm, you know I'm happy to hand the reins over and and work with them on that as well.
• 25:04
  Chris Ball: So, yeah, so look, I think we're young, we're dynamic, we're utilizing the, the way that the world operates now.
• 25:10
  Chris Ball: We're not an old, stuffy financial planning business.
• 25:13
  Chris Ball: We want to do cool things, you know, like bringing you in as head of creative.
• 25:16
  Chris Ball: That's not a normal ifa, traditional move, that is.
• 25:20
  Chris Ball: You know, that is something that's a little bit forward thinking, maybe a couple of years too late, you know.
• 25:24
  Chris Ball: So, you know, but the fact is we're doing it now and you know the whole purpose of that is to try and elevate our brand, is to try and elevate the advisors, to give them opportunities as well.
• 25:33
  Chris Ball: Um, put the name of our business out there.
• 25:36
  Chris Ball: Obviously, you know love the dynamic that you bring to the business, but they're the kind of things we're thinking about.
• 25:41
  Chris Ball: The technology, you know, which maybe we'll come on to in a bit, but we know where the business will go over time and ultimately, it's really important for us to be making moves forward, not making moves sideways.
• 25:53
  sam oakes: Let's jump onto technology, then because you're massively tech focused.
• 25:56
  sam oakes: Yes, Tell us how many people you've got in your tech team.
• 25:59
  Chris Ball: Chris.
• 25:59
  Chris Ball: So we've got 25 developers that work in-house and, you know, led by Mansell.
• 26:04
  Chris Ball: So Mansell is our CTO Insane, really, really great guy.
• 26:09
  Chris Ball: You know, in fact, you know and again that's another profession that there's quite a high turnover.
• 26:14
  Chris Ball: Our very first developer, natch, is still with our business today.
• 26:16
  Chris Ball: Lovely, lovely guy, you know, and we've brought people over from different countries to work, but that's 25 predominantly based here with us.
• 26:25
  Chris Ball: We've developed out a backend system, matrix, and we've developed out our frontend system, which is the Hoxton Wealth app, and that's for our clients.
• 26:33
  Chris Ball: The reason why I've had to do it, sam, is because, operating across multiple different territories, it's very, very difficult to find one operating system.
• 26:42
  Chris Ball: It's impossible.
• 26:42
  Chris Ball: There's no operating system for financial planners that operates across all those different uh jurisdictions, so we've had to build it from scratch, which is great.
• 26:51
  Chris Ball: The front end, a lot of tools that advisors use or client portals, are balance sheets, and by that I mean it's a snapshot of the valuation at that point in time.
• 27:02
  Chris Ball: That's it.
• 27:03
  Chris Ball: You know that that's and that's great.
• 27:05
  Chris Ball: Okay, great, I can see my valuation, but what next?
• 27:09
  Chris Ball: Well, as a client, I want to go on there and I want to see if I've got enough to retire.
• 27:12
  Chris Ball: I want to see when I can retire and a lot of advisors will do that with cash flow planning.
• 27:16
  Chris Ball: But if they're only seeing you once a quarter, once a year, whatever it is, then you're only doing that once.
• 27:22
  Chris Ball: They want to play around, but in their spare time they're sitting on the couch.
• 27:24
  Chris Ball: We all do it on our phones, looking at you know what, what car I might buy next, what, um, you know where I, what house I want to live.
• 27:31
  Chris Ball: You don't want to go have to go to a car showroom or go to a estate agent.
• 27:35
  Chris Ball: You want to do it there.
• 27:36
  Chris Ball: And then, and it's the same with financial planning I feel that people, more and more going forward, will want to do things quickly.
• 27:44
  Chris Ball: We had a really interesting meeting the other day, so we have regular updates, quarterly meetings, on what we're going to be doing over the next three months, reviewing what's happened over the past three months, and one of our things that we want to do is one day client that's, if I say that I want to invest shouldn't have to take 10 weeks to to, you know to for me to be able to decide what's best.
• 28:05
  Chris Ball: It should be able to be done in one day and in the age of the information and speed that we have available at our fingertips, we should be able to do that and turn it around.
• 28:13
  Chris Ball: So that is our.
• 28:14
  Chris Ball: You know that is our aim is, if you you were interested in financial planning, you want to move it forward and you were ready at that point, you should be able to do it in a in a manner that works well with you.
• 28:25
  Chris Ball: And you know we want to make that.
• 28:27
  Chris Ball: Whether that's 10 days, whether that's, you know, one day, we want to make it as quick as it can be for you to be able to process, digest the information, obviously, get all that, but for you to be able to take things at your speed, not at the speed that we set.
• 28:40
  sam oakes: I love it.
• 28:40
  sam oakes: Again, another reason why I'm joining, chris.
• 28:43
  sam oakes: I love hearing you talk about the future.
• 28:45
  sam oakes: I love hearing you talk about the solutions to problems that people are facing.
• 28:49
  sam oakes: That's again, I think, the innovation that comes from being in a young, dynamic company.
• 28:55
  sam oakes: You have that growth mindset that drew me to you.
• 28:58
  sam oakes: Yeah, you're not.
• 28:59
  sam oakes: You're definitely not somebody's exiting out, and I love your vision, your north star, of being like an hsbc.
• 29:04
  sam oakes: Yeah, and ever since you said that to me, I'm like, yeah, I love that, I can think and I can see it, I can visualize it in each and every one of those countries.
• 29:10
  sam oakes: And each and every one of those countries have a different culture, different client base, a different level of service, and we can play around with those in all those different jurisdictions, but it all sits underneath the hoxton brand and it feels the same, it's joined up yeah, I know I love it.
• 29:23
  sam oakes: It's brilliant.
• 29:24
  sam oakes: Um, you're talking about that bit of technology there, so that's the app, right?
• 29:28
  Chris Ball: yeah, yeah, so what's the app called hoxton wealth app?
• 29:30
  Chris Ball: Um, so within there we've got a uh, you know, for the advisors talking I can kind of talk technical jargon.
• 29:36
  Chris Ball: I banned cash flow planning in my office is the word, because could you say cash flow planning to a client?
• 29:42
  Chris Ball: They're like oh, yeah, um.
• 29:43
  Chris Ball: So you know, it's about understand, make, using words that are friendly for clients and that they understand.
• 29:48
  Chris Ball: So we call it wealth flow.
• 29:49
  Chris Ball: Right, so it's a flow of your wealth over time.
• 29:51
  Chris Ball: What does that look like and how does that work?
• 29:53
  Chris Ball: What you can do is you can connect all your bank accounts.
• 29:55
  Chris Ball: So you've you've obviously just moved from the uk to dubai, prime example.
• 29:58
  Chris Ball: You're going to have accounts in uk, you know accounts in dubai.
• 30:02
  Chris Ball: You are going to have investments.
• 30:04
  Chris Ball: You're going to have stuff that we might manage.
• 30:06
  Chris Ball: You can have stuff that we don't manage, but you want to see that all in one place.
• 30:10
  Chris Ball: You don't want to be having to log on to six different places to pull off the information and get a view of your net worth.
• 30:15
  Chris Ball: So what we enable them to do first of all, is link all of their accounts, and you can link bank accounts.
• 30:18
  Chris Ball: You can link investments, pensions, cars, houses, mortgages, liability, credit cards.
• 30:23
  Chris Ball: Everything can be linked on there.
• 30:26
  Chris Ball: Pull it all in gives you a snapshot of where you are today and we use Wealthflow to define where you want to get to, and then we understand whether you're going to fall short.
• 30:35
  Chris Ball: Then we understand whether you're going to, you know, massively exceed that.
• 30:39
  Chris Ball: So therefore, we need to start looking at legacy planning.
• 30:41
  Chris Ball: You know, the whole idea of wealth flow is to help you understand where you are, and that's the big.
• 30:46
  Chris Ball: You know, the two biggest questions I generally find that clients want to understand is when and how much like when can I retire and how much do I need to have when I retire.
• 30:57
  Chris Ball: You know, we all see these instagram adverts that say or these instagram people talking about you need a million dollars and you need this, and why?
• 31:05
  Chris Ball: why?
• 31:05
  Chris Ball: Do I need a million?
• 31:05
  Chris Ball: What?
• 31:06
  Chris Ball: What is that going to be?
• 31:07
  Chris Ball: The whole reason why you need a pot of money is to give you an income later on, maybe to clear off your mortgage, maybe, to you know, fund a couple of other bits and pieces, but the general premise of retirement is built around.
• 31:17
  Chris Ball: I need an income then, to take the income that I'm earning today and to enable me to have the same quality of life.
• 31:23
  Chris Ball: So what do I need to do that?
• 31:26
  sam oakes: it's building the habit as well, isn't it?
• 31:27
  sam oakes: So what we want the client we want the clients to do is to be going into their app all the time, checking on it.
• 31:31
  sam oakes: You know how is it performing.
• 31:33
  sam oakes: How's that transparency?
• 31:34
  Chris Ball: yeah, you live in an age where you want things now.
• 31:36
  Chris Ball: You don't want to wait three weeks for me to send you a valuation that I've had to request from a provider.
• 31:41
  Chris Ball: They post it to me.
• 31:42
  Chris Ball: You want to see at the touch of a button now.
• 31:44
  Chris Ball: I mean to the point where you might look at deliveroo.
• 31:47
  Chris Ball: Deliveroo can tell you minute by minute how far the food is away from your house.
• 31:51
  Chris Ball: If you live in an age where that is possible, why can't you see real time everything that you have there and then what?
• 31:58
  Chris Ball: There is no reason, no, um, and ultimately that's what we want to get to.
• 32:02
  Chris Ball: We want you know when you become a client.
• 32:04
  Chris Ball: You understand where you are in the process.
• 32:05
  Chris Ball: Like your documents are currently getting compliance reviewed.
• 32:08
  Chris Ball: Your documents, you know, are on their way to you for review.
• 32:11
  Chris Ball: Your meeting is, you know, like, almost like a pizza wheel, but for yeah, like a timeline yeah, for for for clients and you know that that's what we want to get to.
• 32:19
  Chris Ball: It's transparency, it's you being able to see where you are and that's you know.
• 32:24
  Chris Ball: Generally, where the most groans come from clients is they will get lost, they don't understand where they are, and for advisors, it's a lot of unnecessary time.
• 32:31
  Chris Ball: You want to be advising clients on how to better their financial future.
• 32:34
  Chris Ball: You don't want to be chasing up a provider and understanding when they're going to process the application form.
• 32:38
  Chris Ball: You don't want to be, you know, not understanding when things are in compliance.
• 32:42
  Chris Ball: And these are all the systems and stuff that we're building to give the client transparency and also the advisor so they can focus on what they want to do.
• 32:49
  sam oakes: You've always been process driven, because you're like the one thing I'm learning from you in the short time that I've started working for you.
• 32:54
  sam oakes: You're you love a process, you love mapping things out, and there's a lot of time and energy in your business that goes into that.
• 33:00
  sam oakes: Has that come through working with tech people or is that something you've always been able to build out?
• 33:07
  Chris Ball: you like a process where you can see where there's opportunity to improve it, for instance yeah, I think it's probably the latter, which is I've always been interested in improving the process, so I like a problem and I like trying to solve it.
• 33:18
  Chris Ball: Yeah, and to do it you need to understand what the process is.
• 33:21
  Chris Ball: To start off, if it's more engineering, if that makes sense, yeah, like engineering the process and maximizing efficiency.
• 33:28
  Chris Ball: I love efficiency, like if things operate efficiently, like if I go into a, if I go into a hotel and I'm checked in and in my room in five minutes, I am buzzing, like that's pretty sad, but you know I'm like that's bloody efficient love that.
• 33:41
  Chris Ball: You know I like to be on time for things and that's my personality and I realise that and that's probably where the process driven comes through is.
• 33:49
  Chris Ball: I want to understand what that process looks like and I want to understand is it it optimized as much as it can be to make sure that the person who is benefiting from that process is, you know it is efficient as possible as it can be for that person?
• 34:02
  Chris Ball: It's like you're awake at night.
• 34:03
  Chris Ball: Yeah, it does.
• 34:04
  Chris Ball: I mean I often wake up thinking about I could probably.
• 34:06
  Chris Ball: I could probably save half an hour here, 45 minutes there, yeah, if I did it this way.
• 34:11
  Chris Ball: Yeah, sweet it's great because I'm sad.
• 34:13
  Chris Ball: No, it's not you know what.
• 34:14
  sam oakes: It's really not sad because I'm learning a lot about you and the more I'm talking to you, the more I learn about you.
• 34:21
  sam oakes: And I enjoy learning about people because we all, we all operate differently, we all think differently, and it's about recognizing.
• 34:28
  sam oakes: What can I do to work with that person in partnership and help that person to be content and happy in how they are delivering their job role.
• 34:39
  sam oakes: Can I add value in any way?
• 34:40
  sam oakes: And I'm learning it more and more.
• 34:42
  sam oakes: And I'm learning it about myself as well, which is great, because you know I've never been a.
• 34:46
  sam oakes: I'm coming in as head of creative mate.
• 34:49
  sam oakes: I made that role up, didn't I?
• 34:50
  sam oakes: So I'm quite a creative person.
• 34:51
  Chris Ball: It's get on the right, but so I'm quite a creative person.
• 34:52
  Chris Ball: It's get on the right as, like we were saying before, it's get the right people on the bus and then figure out where they sit, and it was about getting you on and making sure that you're comfortable with where you sit.
• 35:01
  Chris Ball: And you know, no doubt the head of creative the actual job role underneath will change over time and evolve as you evolve.
• 35:08
  Chris Ball: That's cool.
• 35:09
  Chris Ball: Yeah, I love that.
• 35:10
  Chris Ball: No issues with that you know it's not a very.
• 35:12
  Chris Ball: It's not a regimented thing yeah and I think that sometimes you know actually where people do get confused.
• 35:16
  Chris Ball: It's just because you're process orientated and efficient orientated.
• 35:19
  Chris Ball: It doesn't mean that you are inflexible.
• 35:21
  Chris Ball: Yes, um, ultimately, you know, jim that's jim collins is get the right people on the bus and sit them where they can sit.
• 35:27
  Chris Ball: I mean, that guy's legendary in terms of management, consulting and you know best practices for businesses and stuff like that, but it's you know so.
• 35:35
  Chris Ball: So, true, you were the right person to get on the bus.
• 35:38
  Chris Ball: I saw that.
• 35:39
  Chris Ball: You know and you know.
• 35:40
  Chris Ball: As we say, we haven't talked for three years, but you and I've been catching up multiple points yeah, we have actually touching, yeah, you know, and that's cool as well.
• 35:46
  sam oakes: It's like building that relationship, and just because something's not right now doesn't mean it won't be going forward, but the fact that we had that relationship, the fact that you made the bold move to come out, the reason why we're sat here now we always shared ideas, yeah, and I always came to you with something and, like I knew you would listen to it you know I knew if I booked a time into your diary you would entertain my idea yeah, and I pitched loads of things at you to, and because I knew you'd give me feedback and you'd be keen and to hear it as well.
• 36:10
  Chris Ball: I think you soak up that information, that's also the credibility that you bring as well, and you don't, you?
• 36:15
  Chris Ball: You earn that credibility and respect.
• 36:17
  Chris Ball: You know, you don't.
• 36:18
  Chris Ball: It's not a given.
• 36:18
  Chris Ball: You know, and the fact you know I think a lot of people need to realize that as well is is that the amount of in post that you will get in your linkedin or I get, you know, people just expecting time, whereas you and I had built a proper relationship over time?
• 36:33
  Chris Ball: And you know, of course I'm gonna listen to what you say.
• 36:36
  Chris Ball: I value what you say.
• 36:37
  Chris Ball: I can see you can add huge value.
• 36:38
  Chris Ball: There's a lot of people that don't, unfortunately, and it's yeah it's demonstrating that first which you did.
• 36:43
  sam oakes: It's about being honest as well, isn't it?
• 36:44
  sam oakes: Yeah, you've got to be honest.
• 36:45
  sam oakes: You've got to kind of lay on the table the areas that you're really really good at and the areas that you need improving on.
• 36:49
  sam oakes: I never say you're bad at because I'm just like.
• 36:52
  sam oakes: You definitely can improve everything.
• 36:54
  sam oakes: Neuroplasticity proves it.
• 36:56
  sam oakes: With the brain, you are able to develop new neurological pathways and you can change your thinking.
• 37:00
  sam oakes: I've done that numerous times.
• 37:13
  sam oakes: So for me, coming into a business like this I've been entrepreneurial for the last 16 years right, I know my areas of weakness.
• 37:15
  sam oakes: I can self, I can self-reflect pretty damn well.
• 37:17
  sam oakes: Yeah, um, I crave that discipline, say, coming into like a business that's way ahead of where I got mine and seeing that it's been done through discipline, process, procedure, it's like, oh, it's like a breath of fresh air to me and to know that I can, I can ask somebody how to put a process in place or to keep me in check.
• 37:31
  sam oakes: Because I crave that discipline as well, because when you create, if you can run away, everything's shiny, everything's brilliant.
• 37:35
  sam oakes: You know loads of ideas, but often you have all these ideas you might not get anywhere.
• 37:39
  sam oakes: Yeah, and being able to come into a business where I can lean into multiple different people who can then help me on that journey and keep me on the on the track.
• 37:47
  Chris Ball: If you like, it's like, um, it's like winning the lottery yeah, I think the thing that you hit on there is the discipline and the focus to get it done.
• 37:55
  Chris Ball: Yeah, and that's what a lot of people struggle with, in my opinion, is a lot of people have great ideas and you know, I don't believe that anyone has got the monopoly on good ideas.
• 38:05
  Chris Ball: Yeah, yeah, good ideas are everywhere.
• 38:07
  Chris Ball: The difference between someone with a good idea and someone super successful is that the super successful person will execute that idea, but they will also not be afraid to give things a go.
• 38:18
  Chris Ball: If they fail or don't work out, they will quickly change, make a change to, to recognize it.
• 38:23
  Chris Ball: So fail quickly, um, but you know, I'd like to think that we do provide that, that, um, you know that basis.
• 38:30
  Chris Ball: We do execute.
• 38:31
  Chris Ball: We do say what we're gonna.
• 38:32
  Chris Ball: Uh, you know, if I say I'm gonna do something, I'll do it.
• 38:35
  Chris Ball: Yeah, um, and you know it's important to create that atmosphere where people like you can come in, we can work together.
• 38:42
  Chris Ball: You know you're super creative.
• 38:43
  Chris Ball: You've got all these great ideas.
• 38:44
  Chris Ball: There's so much you brought to the table already that you know we've not thought about and different ways of doing things.
• 38:49
  Chris Ball: You want to surround yourself with people like that all the time that are raising the game in the areas that you're weak in and identifying.
• 38:55
  Chris Ball: Like you said, if you have a weakness in an area, yes, you can improve it, but if you want to improve it, the best way to improve it is to surround yourself with people that are much better than you.
• 39:03
  sam oakes: It's the quickest way yeah, that is the quickest way.
• 39:05
  sam oakes: It's hard, isn't it when you're running, like there'll be people listening to this podcast now and they're well, we spoke to a guy yesterday, right, like he had aspirations to run his own business, thought he was a business owner, but it hasn't very quickly because it's taken him a little while to work out that.
• 39:18
  sam oakes: Okay, maybe I'm not so good at this part, but I'm really love this part, but he's been trying so hard that it's burning him out, and I went through that, you know, and it's burning him out and I went through that, you know, and it's just like when's the time to let go and actually align yourself with other?
• 39:30
  sam oakes: Yeah, letting go of that, what is it?
• 39:32
  Chris Ball: It's like I'm letting go of the it's the fear of failure as well, because you're inbuilt into you that you can't give up and all the rest of it.
• 39:39
  Chris Ball: It's not giving up, it's pivoting.
• 39:40
  Chris Ball: It's only giving up if you and you know and just don't do anything.
• 39:50
  Chris Ball: That, to me, is when you quit.
• 39:50
  Chris Ball: It takes a certain type of person to realize that it's not for them to do something.
• 39:53
  Chris Ball: Yeah, and unfortunately a lot of people, especially in financial planning, become accidental business owners.
• 40:00
  Chris Ball: I'm, you know, same in recruitment.
• 40:01
  Chris Ball: It's an industry that's built around.
• 40:03
  Chris Ball: You can go and do it yourself.
• 40:04
  Chris Ball: You just bet you your way or the highway, you know kind of thing, which is great, but it's not you, it's your way.
• 40:09
  Chris Ball: Or the highway you know kind of thing, which is great, but it's not.
• 40:11
  Chris Ball: I mean there's being running a financial planning business I can tell you now is completely different to working in one.
• 40:17
  Chris Ball: You know, just because you're a good financial planner does not mean that you're going to be a good, a good business owner.
• 40:22
  Chris Ball: Just because you, you're a good recruiter doesn't necessarily mean that you're gonna, you know, do uh, be, be a good business owner yourself and and it's it's not a bad thing.
• 40:32
  Chris Ball: We need to get away from that.
• 40:33
  Chris Ball: People need to harness what they enjoy and what they want to focus on.
• 40:37
  Chris Ball: If I really like financial planning, what should I be doing?
• 40:39
  Chris Ball: I should be giving.
• 40:39
  Chris Ball: I should be giving financial advice all day, every day.
• 40:42
  Chris Ball: I shouldn't have to be worrying about gabriel returns.
• 40:44
  Chris Ball: I shouldn't have to be worrying about making payments to suppliers.
• 40:47
  Chris Ball: I shouldn't have to be making sure that my QuickBooks account is up to date.
• 40:50
  Chris Ball: I shouldn't be making sure that this advert's in line.
• 40:52
  Chris Ball: Some people actually enjoy that and if you enjoy that, lean into it.
• 40:55
  Chris Ball: But if you don't enjoy it and you just want to do something because you want to be on your own, find the place where you can operate like that.
• 41:10
  sam oakes: I love that.
• 41:10
  sam oakes: That's just kind of hit home.
• 41:10
  sam oakes: Actually, it's that whole acceptance around the things that you're not so good at acceptance around the things you are good at.
• 41:12
  Chris Ball: Spend more time doing the things you're good at and you enjoy.
• 41:13
  Chris Ball: Yeah, you're passionate about it.
• 41:14
  Chris Ball: You're passionate about this yeah doing this.
• 41:16
  Chris Ball: This is what you're super passionate about.
• 41:18
  sam oakes: I love.
• 41:18
  sam oakes: I love creating content, I love meeting people.
• 41:21
  sam oakes: So, like I'm a visionary as well, I've got growth mindset and I've always got things in my mind I want to do.
• 41:25
  sam oakes: I'm always a step, I'm always a step ahead, I'm always a future thinker.
• 41:29
  sam oakes: And with that comes a bit of anxiety sometimes, because you're kind of always thinking, oh god, you know, because you're nervous you're not going to get to the thing that you want to get to.
• 41:34
  sam oakes: Yeah, it's like a dopamine addiction man.
• 41:36
  sam oakes: You want to keep going.
• 41:42
  sam oakes: So I've got lots of vision in me.
• 41:43
  sam oakes: Like it's like well, I want to come into I always't want to run a financial advice business.
• 41:46
  sam oakes: I've already tried to run a business.
• 41:47
  sam oakes: I'm not a big fan of running a business, you know.
• 41:49
  sam oakes: So, coming into here, building out content, using that content to now pivot into becoming a key person of influence within the financial planning space.
• 41:58
  sam oakes: So I'm already that really in the career side.
• 42:02
  sam oakes: Now I want to come into it and go right, well, how can I be a key person of influence within the professional connection side?
• 42:06
  sam oakes: So that's kind of how I see.
• 42:08
  sam oakes: Like the podcasting now.
• 42:09
  sam oakes: So we're going to be building out the hoxton podcast, right, the hoxton youtube channel.
• 42:12
  sam oakes: Who can I connect with on an international basis that establishes us as that key company of influence so we can start driving really good introduced relationships to us.
• 42:22
  sam oakes: Yeah, so how I see myself in the future is that person a connector and I love it and that's, and I can't wait to get to that point and I can see that here.
• 42:32
  sam oakes: And because you're at that stage in growth and what you're thinking and how you visualize things, you're not turning around to me saying no, no, I'm staying in your box.
• 42:38
  sam oakes: Yeah, you're saying come on board, get on the bus and let's drive forward together.
• 42:42
  sam oakes: I'm excited by that.
• 42:43
  sam oakes: It's like I met bradley over in thes top bloke, you know really really nice yeah and we really want to build out the us because it's a huge opportunity, huge.
• 42:51
  sam oakes: as soon as I started talking to people out there in the us, I got excited.
• 42:54
  sam oakes: I saw opportunity and it's just like, oh my god, like I visualized the us for a long time and and now I have the opportunity to step over there and play in that sandbox.
• 43:02
  sam oakes: Yeah, I'm excited like and I sort of want people to understand about Oxfam.
• 43:06
  sam oakes: I know the market, I've been out there, I've been looking, I've been talking to people.
• 43:10
  sam oakes: It's an exciting business.
• 43:12
  Chris Ball: Yeah, I'd like to think so.
• 43:13
  sam oakes: Yeah, it's exciting.
• 43:15
  sam oakes: Get on board If you are sitting there and you're wearing all those fucking hats, right, and you're pissed off and you're getting home and a financial planner come and join us 100, get on the bus, as we say.
• 43:31
  Chris Ball: Right, yeah, get on the bus.
• 43:31
  Chris Ball: And I think number one is just about having the initial chat.
• 43:33
  Chris Ball: Yeah, if you are sitting there at the moment and thinking, you know, fuck, well, I've got to make sure that everyone gets paid, I've got to deal with payroll, I've got to file this gabriel return, like, just have a chat yeah just just sit down and you know it's.
• 43:48
  Chris Ball: It might not be for you, might might be completely the opposite to what you want, but until you have that chat, you never know and I think for a lot of people who are feeling like that genuinely, it's a great place because there is endless opportunity.
• 44:01
  Chris Ball: There are not and you know, I don't want to poo-poo anyone else and we can come on to that in a minute.
• 44:05
  Chris Ball: You know the maybe one of the problems with our profession is is poo-pooing what other people do.
• 44:09
  Chris Ball: Yeah, you know, for me it's really, it's really around opera, offering people multiple opportunity.
• 44:14
  Chris Ball: There is not many businesses that you can start in the uk decide.
• 44:18
  Chris Ball: You know what?
• 44:19
  Chris Ball: Do you know what?
• 44:20
  Chris Ball: Sam, I want to live in dubai, but I want to service my uk clients.
• 44:23
  Chris Ball: I don't want to give up my uk clients.
• 44:24
  Chris Ball: I actually wouldn't mind living in dubai, coming back and seeing my uk clients and servicing them.
• 44:29
  Chris Ball: I want to service them a bit more remotely now because we can, with the likes of things like teams and zoom and stuff like that, live in the sunshine, all the rest of stuff.
• 44:35
  Chris Ball: Yeah, I want to live in the us, or actually I've got some us clients that I want to work with, or I've got some australian clients that it's endless opportunity and we're not going to restrict you and go.
• 44:44
  Chris Ball: No, you joined here.
• 44:45
  Chris Ball: You must work there yeah that's not going to happen.
• 44:48
  Chris Ball: It's really about creating a platform for people to excel and live life the way that they want to live it, which is important, but also for us to be able to work with them to build them up into the advisor they want to be.
• 45:00
  sam oakes: Yeah, 100 love it.
• 45:02
  sam oakes: We talked about poo-pooing there.
• 45:03
  sam oakes: Yeah, let's touch on it, because one of the things that really attracted me to you as well, like I'm a big um collaboration, not competition man.
• 45:10
  sam oakes: Yeah, I'd rather learn from people, connect with people, than tear somebody down.
• 45:14
  sam oakes: It's not my style, it's not your style.
• 45:17
  sam oakes: No, definitely not.
• 45:18
  sam oakes: Let's talk about that, like why what does?
• 45:20
  sam oakes: Why does that get on your tits when?
• 45:22
  Chris Ball: well, number one, is shit, like there's no other word for it.
• 45:24
  Chris Ball: I mean, it's like I.
• 45:25
  Chris Ball: So I used to work for kpmg.
• 45:27
  Chris Ball: If we did not win a piece of audit work against ey or tax piece of work, we wouldn't start sending them articles about this other company and, you know, slating them.
• 45:35
  Chris Ball: Have you looked at this?
• 45:36
  Chris Ball: You know, like you, you would go good choice, fair enough.
• 45:40
  Chris Ball: You know where did we fail?
• 45:41
  Chris Ball: What did we do wrong?
• 45:43
  Chris Ball: That meant we didn't win the business.
• 45:45
  Chris Ball: Yeah, it wasn't sitting there slagging everyone off.
• 45:51
  Chris Ball: Look, we've got some amazing businesses in the international space.
• 45:52
  Chris Ball: What people also need to remember is the way that companies used to operate is not necessarily the way that companies operate now.
• 45:58
  Chris Ball: I would like to think the international space has become a lot more professional.
• 46:01
  Chris Ball: It's become a lot more well-established.
• 46:04
  Chris Ball: You know, again, talking openly.
• 46:07
  Chris Ball: It's.
• 46:07
  Chris Ball: You know again, talking openly it's.
• 46:08
  Chris Ball: You know, let's say, devir group.
• 46:09
  Chris Ball: I used to work for them for seven years.
• 46:10
  Chris Ball: I have not got a bad word to say about them.
• 46:12
  Chris Ball: You know and I'm not saying last time I said that a lot of people actually on your podcast, a lot of people come back and said he's still working for nigel and I'm not bloody working for nigel.
• 46:20
  Chris Ball: I could guarantee that now, um, but the reason why I say that is is that if you look at the people that started Skybound that was Guardian started life at Devere.
• 46:32
  Chris Ball: If you look at the people that run AHR Group now, they started life at Devere.
• 46:36
  Chris Ball: Holborn Bob definitely didn't start at Devere.
• 46:39
  Chris Ball: Gsb, other businesses a lot of them have started their life off at Devere and Nigel for everything that everyone wants to say about him has created a lot of opportunity for a lot of people.
• 46:50
  Chris Ball: People might not agree with the way that you do things.
• 46:53
  Chris Ball: That's cool.
• 46:53
  Chris Ball: Everyone can't do things the same way and it'd be weird if we all did.
• 46:57
  Chris Ball: But you know, and there's some things that there's some things that go on that you know probably shouldn't go on and stuff like that in different businesses.
• 47:04
  Chris Ball: But they're not doing it to be malicious.
• 47:06
  Chris Ball: I believe most of the way they're doing it because they're mistakes or their oversights and things like that.
• 47:10
  Chris Ball: And jumping on and trying to attack people.
• 47:12
  Chris Ball: You know it doesn't do our industry and our business or, uh, you know the place that we operate all from and the profession that we all love any good.
• 47:21
  Chris Ball: You just create a crap atmosphere.
• 47:23
  Chris Ball: You create something that is toxic, something that is not good and the only way that we're gonna, you know, move on as a business, attract outside capital, be able to increase our profession and make it.
• 47:34
  Chris Ball: You know the qualifications that some of these guys have got now in the international space they're qualified in us, they're qualified in australia, they're qualified in uk, chartered status and stuff like that.
• 47:41
  Chris Ball: That's that needs to be embraced, that needs to be looked at.
• 47:44
  Chris Ball: That's a really cool thing that they've gone and done.
• 47:47
  Chris Ball: That is the new breed of advisor.
• 47:48
  Chris Ball: This whole kind of ex-car salesman coming out and then selling, you know, regular savings plans to everyone is pretty much done and dusted.
• 47:56
  Chris Ball: Yes, you don't survive doing that now, and that is the space that we're operating in and I'm all about making sure that that, you know, gets put on a pedestal and people respect the profession that we're in, because I'm super proud of it, I'm super happy to call myself a financial advisor and I'm super proud of the qualifications I've got, you know, and I'm super proud of all the people that we've put through qualifications and the other companies.
• 48:18
  sam oakes: No, I love it.
• 48:19
  sam oakes: There's loads of people in your business that are highly qualified.
• 48:21
  sam oakes: I mean lots of the power planners are sitting there as I leave the office at six o'clock.
• 48:25
  sam oakes: They're sitting there doing their Series 65 training.
• 48:27
  sam oakes: I mean they're all super pumped to get qualified.
• 48:30
  sam oakes: They're all really intelligent, young, enthusiastic people that want to be qualified as professionals.
• 48:37
  sam oakes: Definitely I'm not sitting in an office full of people that are waifs and strays you know, just deserted the UK because they want an easy life.
• 48:44
  Chris Ball: Just living a life.
• 48:45
  sam oakes: Yeah, they're coming out here to actually be professionals, definitely, and uk because they want an easy life.
• 48:48
  sam oakes: These are just living a life.
• 48:48
  sam oakes: Yeah, they're coming out here to actually be professionals definitely.
• 48:49
  sam oakes: I've been blown away actually by by the quality within the business, for sure.
• 48:51
  sam oakes: Um, let's just talk about the future then.
• 48:53
  sam oakes: So where is, where are we going then?
• 48:56
  Chris Ball: look, I for us as a business, I want to grow it to be the number one international financial advice business.
• 49:02
  Chris Ball: I want us to be the hsbc of yeah, if financial advice, that is what than anything.
• 49:08
  Chris Ball: And you know, I believe that we can get there.
• 49:10
  Chris Ball: I believe that people massively overestimate what they can do in a year, but massively underestimate what they can do in 10.
• 49:15
  Chris Ball: You know the same from Bill Gates really great quote, I believe.
• 49:18
  Chris Ball: You know, by the end of 2027, we'll be at 5 billion of assets.
• 49:22
  Chris Ball: We will be well along our track of continuing our great organic growth, providing lots of opportunity to other advisors, continuing to develop our US, australian operations, european operations I'd love to have something in Asia by that point too and have hopefully acquired a number of really good UK IFAs and built out that local presence.
• 49:43
  Chris Ball: That's super important to us and that's a real area that we see that we can make a difference in and that we can work with some really great people.
• 49:50
  Chris Ball: And you know, again, we work.
• 49:52
  Chris Ball: It's like this kind of secret person that we keep mentioning, but you know his his point is is there's not someone doing it really well in terms of how he sees it and how he visualizes it?
• 50:00
  Chris Ball: And I've really bought into his vision.
• 50:02
  Chris Ball: So my vision that's his vision, uh, and I've really bought into that and I believe that he's the guy to execute that in the uk and I'm super excited about it.
• 50:09
  Chris Ball: Yeah, it doesn't mean that everyone everyone else is doing it is.
• 50:11
  Chris Ball: It is not right, but it's.
• 50:13
  Chris Ball: You know, ultimately it's the we want to do things our way and I'm I'm really excited to see where he can get of it there's a lot of.
• 50:19
  sam oakes: It is an exciting time in the uk.
• 50:20
  sam oakes: There's a lot of people sitting there waiting for something decent to come along.
• 50:23
  sam oakes: Yeah, that's going to turn their head.
• 50:25
  sam oakes: I think a lot of, and I think your foresight around hiring me was brilliant.
• 50:29
  sam oakes: Just saying just saying, I just but I think your investment in marketing creativity and technology.
• 50:37
  sam oakes: That's what I mean.
• 50:38
  sam oakes: I think it's.
• 50:38
  sam oakes: You said like oh, maybe we're a bit late to the table on that.
• 50:41
  sam oakes: No way, you're late to the table.
• 50:43
  sam oakes: You're not.
• 50:43
  sam oakes: Like if you look at the uk, you're not late.
• 50:45
  Chris Ball: I mean you're comparing it to an industry that is probably way far behind what others are doing.
• 50:50
  Chris Ball: Like we cut, like we can't compare ourselves to other people in the independent financial advice business.
• 50:56
  Chris Ball: We need to be comparing ourselves against about global, you know, industry leaders, technology, yeah, oh, we, where they are?
• 51:03
  Chris Ball: No, we're not.
• 51:08
  Chris Ball: Can we catch up?
• 51:08
  Chris Ball: I believe we can with a bit of with a bit of hard work and making sure that we do the right things.
• 51:11
  Chris Ball: Yeah, um, and that's, you know, that's what we want to focus on.
• 51:12
  Chris Ball: We want to benchmark ourselves against those types of people yeah, another.
• 51:15
  sam oakes: You know, to end on it, one of the things that I the opportunity that I see not a lot of firms are doing a lot to um, generate clients.
• 51:21
  sam oakes: Okay, they're not doing a lot around the marketing, the branding, establishing themselves as key businesses of influence that can add value, tangible kind of benefits to businesses and clients.
• 51:31
  sam oakes: You guys are doing that and the future looks very, very bright around that and that's where I see that huge opportunity is that how can we give more people the tools to be financially free?
• 51:42
  sam oakes: And that makes me excited.
• 51:44
  sam oakes: When you talk about your app, it's for free, right for, and it's like you want a million people using it.
• 51:49
  sam oakes: And as soon as you said that to me it was like, wow, I've got so many ideas about how to get that app in the hands of the right people and it's wide open, even just around a piggyback.
• 51:59
  sam oakes: You know I'm not going to share the ideas because I don't want everyone nicking it, but around the a huge amount of influencers out there, why can't influencers start giving people an app?
• 52:13
  sam oakes: Why can't they start talking about an app?
• 52:14
  sam oakes: You know, like there's there's so many people that are concerned about their finances.
• 52:16
  sam oakes: It causes such huge anxiety, definitely.
• 52:17
  sam oakes: And when we look at the bigger picture and I'm a big picture person I like higher purpose.
• 52:19
  sam oakes: Like with the financial plan of life, it was about right, okay, well, if I create a podcast and it attracts new people to the profession, that's going to have a direct impact on people's mental health, their financial security, their financial health, their families, and it got me thinking.
• 52:33
  sam oakes: It was like wow, that would have a hugely positive impact.
• 52:35
  sam oakes: And it's the same here.
• 52:36
  sam oakes: It's the same higher purpose thinking for me is that can I be part of a business that is going to actually improve the lives of individuals and their families?
• 52:47
  sam oakes: Yeah, and I think money causes a lot of anxiety.
• 52:50
  sam oakes: That's for everyone.
• 52:51
  Chris Ball: Yeah, for everyone and we want to solve that right.
• 52:53
  Chris Ball: That's the mission and that is the aim.
• 52:55
  Chris Ball: That is a financial planner.
• 52:56
  Chris Ball: That is what you want to do.
• 52:57
  Chris Ball: You want to relieve that stress.
• 52:59
  Chris Ball: You want to take that stress from someone and you want them to.
• 53:02
  Chris Ball: You want to understand their objectives, understand their goals and you want to relieve any anxiety or stress that they've got around that and let them know, sooner rather than later, if they're going to struggle to get there.
• 53:13
  Chris Ball: Yeah, or let them know everything's going to be okay, don't worry, enjoy you know, yeah, I love it.
• 53:18
  sam oakes: Hoxton wealth and hoxton health exactly.
• 53:21
  sam oakes: We like that, don't we?
• 53:22
  sam oakes: We do like that, yeah fantastic.
• 53:24
  Chris Ball: Coming back to that, we do keep yeah, we keep coming back to it.
• 53:27
  sam oakes: I love it.
• 53:27
  sam oakes: I wonder what our?
• 53:27
  sam oakes: Yeah, let's listen.
• 53:28
  sam oakes: What the?
• 53:29
  sam oakes: What do you think audience?
• 53:30
  sam oakes: Hoxton wealth, hoxton health yeah, hoxton life.
• 53:33
  sam oakes: That's what this is the hoxton life on the financial planner life podcast.
• 53:37
  sam oakes: Chris, love it.
• 53:38
  sam oakes: It's been absolutely awesome catching up with you this time around.
• 53:40
  sam oakes: I'm loving the fact.
• 53:41
  sam oakes: Three years later, we're sat in dubai, we're working together and we're going to build the best international financial advice business out there.
• 53:47
  Chris Ball: We 1 million percent are it's going to happen, mate.
• 53:50
  Chris Ball: Brilliant Good man, top man Love it.
• 53:52
  Chris Ball: Nice one, cheers mate.